00:09:08 [[User:I am islptng/WIP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155298&oldid=155292 * I am islptng * (-114) 00:44:32 [[Foldy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155299&oldid=154471 * Squareroot12621 * (+23) Add to the comment inside the link 00:49:16 [[Foldy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155300&oldid=155299 * Squareroot12621 * (-23) Revert; it didn't do anything 00:55:07 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 01:23:35 ais523: I also think that that's less powerful than a full linear bounded automaton, but I don't have a proof 02:41:18 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * WhatToUseThisFor * New user account 03:06:06 Due to their keep changing some things in the formatting of Magic: the Gathering rules, I had to update my program for converting to HTML; this last time, the heading for rule 505 was incorrectly not copied due to a blank line containing a space before it, but I fixed that now. 03:12:24 -!- amadaluzia_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:56:53 [[StormScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155301&oldid=153655 * I am islptng * (+2016) 05:00:00 Thinkin' about Owner-Free File System again. This time I'm thinking of how it might interact with a Gödel machine; such a machine might learn OFFS blocks which are efficient, useful, or otherwise common. 05:00:55 I probably should get at least one (1) thing off my plate first though. 05:30:23 -!- m5zs7k has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:35:04 -!- m5zs7k has joined. 05:44:43 [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155302&oldid=154638 * Gilbert189 * (+2028) The Musical Update 06:32:38 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:05:10 -!- tromp has joined. 07:17:19 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 07:17:53 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:18:40 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 08:32:34 -!- wib_jonas has joined. 08:35:27 -!- wib_jonas75 has joined. 08:36:27 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by wib_jonas75))). 08:36:30 -!- wib_jonas75 has changed nick to wib_jonas. 08:40:28 ais523: a linear-bounded automaton can solve a SAT instance by iterating through every solution and checking them. a multi-stack machine without null state changes that you mentioned can be evaluated in linear time in the input. so if they were equally powerful that would imply P=NP. This is probably an overkill argument and there's one that 08:40:29 doesn't depend on such a conjecture, but I think it's at least a heuristic. 08:58:06 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:34:06 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Harlanward * New user account 10:09:20 -!- amby has joined. 10:29:07 [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155303 * C++DSUCKER * (+567) Created page with "== Definition == +X means increment the X register -Yn means if the Y register is nonzero, Decrement it and jump to n all the below tables are for 2 registers A and B. also, if there are multiple programs with the same time we only list one. == 10:37:28 -!- esolangs has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:38:06 -!- esolangs has joined. 10:38:06 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v esolangs. 10:40:22 [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155304&oldid=155303 * C++DSUCKER * (+0) 10:58:43 [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155305&oldid=155304 * C++DSUCKER * (+269) 11:09:00 Hi 11:21:31 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 11:50:15 [[User talk:GUAqwq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155306&oldid=155189 * GUAqwq * (+181) /* hmmm */ 11:51:12 [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155307&oldid=155305 * C++DSUCKER * (+79) /* Unconfirmed */ 11:55:28 [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155308&oldid=155307 * C++DSUCKER * (+37) 12:08:38 [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155309&oldid=155302 * PrySigneToFry * (+1145) 12:20:08 -!- Lymia has joined. 12:20:24 -!- Lymee has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:41:17 [[Talk:MSFE++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155310&oldid=155297 * Cycwin * (+24) 12:43:36 [[User talk:Stkptr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155311&oldid=155273 * Cycwin * (+113) /* Thanks */ new section 13:07:01 -!- tromp has joined. 13:25:40 -!- amadaluzia has joined. 14:07:07 [[UserEdited/Versions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155312&oldid=154639 * Hotcrystal0 * (+34) 14:08:17 [[UserEdited/Versions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155313&oldid=155312 * Hotcrystal0 * (+37) 14:11:10 [[Argh!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155314&oldid=142525 * 5anz * (+0) /* Examples */ 14:34:57 [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155315&oldid=155151 * Hotcrystal0 * (+430) /* Chess */ new section 14:40:35 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:44:35 [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155316&oldid=155115 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0) capitalization fix 14:53:17 [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155317&oldid=155315 * Hotcrystal0 * (+294) 14:53:38 [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155318&oldid=155317 * Hotcrystal0 * (+6) 15:01:53 -!- tromp has joined. 16:29:36 -!- craigo has joined. 16:29:46 -!- craigo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:45:15 b_jonas: That's an elegant argument. Nice. 16:55:43 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Aramya * New user account 17:21:34 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:40:39 -!- tromp has joined. 17:49:58 [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155319&oldid=155288 * Joachim * (+1) /* Display */ 17:53:35 [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155320&oldid=155319 * Joachim * (-108) /* Program execution */ 17:55:00 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:56:44 [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155321&oldid=155320 * Joachim * (+56) /* Display */ 17:56:58 -!- tromp has joined. 18:01:32 [[Undyne Programming Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155322&oldid=155321 * Joachim * (+1) /* i */ 18:02:07 [[Undyne Programming Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155323&oldid=155322 * Joachim * (+2) /* Display */ 18:32:44 -!- amadaluzia has quit (Quit: Hi, this is Paul Allen. I'm being called away to London for a few days. Meredith, I'll call you when I get back. Hasta la vista, baby.). 18:33:44 -!- amadaluzia has joined. 18:36:13 -!- amadaluzia has quit (Client Quit). 18:37:10 -!- amadaluzia has joined. 18:42:08 -!- amadaluzia has quit (Quit: Hi, this is Paul Allen. I'm being called away to London for a few days. Meredith, I'll call you when I get back. Hasta la vista, baby.). 18:43:37 -!- amadaluzia has joined. 19:07:56 cu 19:17:21 -!- m5zs7k has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:20:47 -!- m5zs7k has joined. 19:39:14 -!- m5zs7k has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:42:16 -!- m5zs7k has joined. 20:11:45 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155324&oldid=155274 * WhatToUseThisFor * (+66) 20:32:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:33:21 is quadratic-time known to be more powerful than linear-time? if so, then even P=NP wouldn't prevent a linear-time program being unable to solve SAT 20:34:36 Linear and quadratic time on what formalism? (sorting in the RAM model comes to mind) 20:34:48 comparison-based that is 20:34:55 oh, good point – the model matters when it's linear versus quadratic 20:35:55 this is a multiple-stack model (which is similar to a multitape Turing machine model but you can add and delete tape elements in addition to changing them) 20:41:13 I guess I could call this the Esimpl model – I think it's the same performance up to amortization and constant factors (two stacks can simulate a queue in amortized linear time) 20:54:19 linear vs quadratic can also matter on what specific NP-complete problem you choose and how it's encoded. 20:54:35 ah, you're saying SAT specifically 20:56:39 but anyway, yes, it's because linear time is such a strong restriction why I expect that your question can be answered even without knowing P!=NP 20:57:07 I'm not convinced that this model is even linear-time-complete 20:57:21 (the stack machine that can only do stack manipulation as it reads input) 20:57:21 because I think the complexity theorists know some problems that can be solved in exponential time but not in linear time, or something like that, and you could exploit that here 20:57:42 sure, we don't need it linear time complete, and it probably isn't 20:58:35 my original thought was basically that you give a problem encoded with a block cipher and give the short symmetric key at the very end of the problem description, then the no null transitions multi-stack machine has very little time to decode the problem 20:58:55 you can find the median of an array in linear time, right? but I can't see how to do that with the stack-operations-when-reading machine 20:59:01 but that doesn't work directly when you're asking about asymptotics 20:59:15 since a block cipher with fixed size can be solved by a huge finite state machine 21:12:42 like if you know how to solve the original problem with an machine with P stacks and N states, and there are 2↑256 possible block cipher keys, then solve the ciphered problem by simulating 2↑256 copies of that multi-stack machine (plus the state of the cipher) with a giant multi-stack machine that has 2↑256·P stacks and (N·C)↑(2↑256) states where C is the number of states of the cipher 21:13:56 ais523: 2N tapes can simulate N stacks and 2N stacks can simulate N tapes, right? :) 21:14:05 err 21:14:11 N tapes can simulate N stacks 21:14:54 int-e: yes 21:19:06 ais523: hold on, you are requiring your multi-stack machine without null transitions to be deterministic, right? 21:19:45 b_jonas: yes, although interestingly I came across this while trying to solve a problem that involved NPDAs 21:19:53 so the nondeterministic case might be interesting 21:20:15 (fwiw I no longer think it's the right solution, so it's just a curiosity more than something that's the right answer) 21:20:39 I asked because my simple heuristic doesn't work if it can be nondeterministic 21:21:24 -!- amadaluzia_ has joined. 21:21:25 -!- amadaluzia has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:46:54 [[User talk:Hotcrystal0/Colon three]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155325 * I am islptng * (+46) Where's the U-turner? 22:14:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:33:05 [[Category talk:Unknown computational class]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155326&oldid=138372 * 5anz * (+306) 22:42:04 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 23:02:11 [[257-wrap brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155327&oldid=155234 * Tpaefawzen * (+60) 23:11:11 [[257-wrap brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155328&oldid=155327 * Tpaefawzen * (+40) /* Implementation */