00:06:31 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ItsZer0here * New user account
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00:32:05 <esolangs> [[EsoEnglish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155689&oldid=155681 * Darkloyd255 * (+553) Added more detail.
01:44:29 <esolangs> [[Talk:4gn/]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155690 * I am islptng * (+648) Created page with "what to do with opus magnum --~~~~"
01:48:10 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155691&oldid=155661 * I am islptng * (+652) /* Collaboration? */
02:32:31 <esolangs> [[Talk:PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155692&oldid=155059 * Cycwin * (+45) /* Noooo */ new section
02:36:18 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155693&oldid=155542 * Cycwin * (+131) /* ... */ new section
02:49:26 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155694&oldid=155693 * Cycwin * (+16) /* ... */
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04:44:42 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155695&oldid=155662 * PrySigneToFry * (+27)
05:02:40 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155696&oldid=155242 * PrySigneToFry * (+208)
05:33:16 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155697&oldid=155696 * PrySigneToFry * (+37)
06:29:36 <esolangs> [[StormScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155698&oldid=155409 * I am islptng * (+15)
06:32:02 <esolangs> [[Talk:Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155699&oldid=155610 * Ais523 * (+1255) /* Thoughts */ more thoughts
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07:08:02 <esolangs> [[LPeg]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155700 * Corbin * (+1179) Stub for a parser.
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07:33:25 <esolangs> [[META II]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155701 * Corbin * (+1618) Stub for the original metacompiler.
07:49:07 <esolangs> [[META II]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155702&oldid=155701 * Corbin * (+712) Add a couple clarifying paragraphs that I'm sure won't confuse anybody~
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09:04:04 <esolangs> [[HAPPA]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155703 * RixTheTyrunt * (+1938) Created page with "HAPPA is a 2D esolang in which you control a "buggy". In HAPPA, you can configure where the "buggy" starts, the horizontal velocity (going left/right) but NOT the horizontal velocity (up/down, default is always down). It is sort of like [[Befunge]], however the "bug
09:11:45 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155704&oldid=155682 * RixTheTyrunt * (+12) /* H */
09:12:52 <esolangs> [[HAPPA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155705&oldid=155703 * RixTheTyrunt * (+64)
09:49:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155706&oldid=153654 * PrySigneToFry * (+112) /* Worse news */ new section
09:52:17 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155707&oldid=155079 * C++DSUCKER * (+18080)
09:53:36 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155708&oldid=155707 * C++DSUCKER * (+11)
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11:19:29 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155709&oldid=155235 * PrySigneToFry * (+0)
11:24:40 <esolangs> [[Yoctostack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155710&oldid=92336 * Otesunki * (+502) add example implementation
11:29:42 <esolangs> [[PAGENAME]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155711&oldid=137471 * Cycwin * (+687)
11:47:01 <int-e> . o O ( Is there any logic to when YT adds a &pp=garbage argument to its links? )
11:53:47 <fizzie> . o O ( Every time there's a question like that I'm really tempted to go figure it out, but it's perfectly pointless because I couldn't then say anything about it... )
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11:59:51 <int-e> Yeah and it's invisible to most people anyway so Google probably won't ever talk about it.
12:02:06 <b_jonas> how do you say in english to follow a hyperlink, but make it sound like a sci-fi/fantasy hyperspace jump?
12:07:03 <esolangs> [[PAGENAME]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155712&oldid=155711 * Cycwin * (+124)
12:07:42 <int-e> Establishing a link, riding the waves, entering a portal into the public portion of a corporate network
12:08:38 <int-e> (This isn't an answer, I'm brainstorming a bit. I don't really recall phrases for this kind of thing, say from Neuromancer.)
12:09:53 <int-e> The thing is, from a 1990s point of view "following a hyperlink" sounds very futuristic and sci-fi-like.
12:10:46 <int-e> But the novelty wore off and now this particular phrase is in everyday use and it's no longer sci-fi so... are you even asking a fair question? :-)
12:11:08 <fizzie> Did HyperCard call cross-card transitions hyperlinks? Can't remember. (It's from the 80s.)
12:12:44 <int-e> I guess entering a web portal hasn't really caught on (with everything-app web portals like Yahoo! being supplanted by search engines)
12:13:17 <fizzie> Ooh, Internet Archive has emulated HyperCard stacks: https://blog.archive.org/2017/08/11/hypercard-on-the-archive-celebrating-30-years-of-hypercard/
12:14:28 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperCard ..love the use of present tense in the first paragraph
12:14:47 <int-e> LOL "HyperCard was created by Bill Atkinson following an LSD trip."
12:15:53 <fizzie> https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/1999/03/03/macromedia-flashdance always comes to my mind when there's talk about... well, not the early web, but the thing after that, I guess.
12:16:29 <fizzie> Does Hypnospace Outlaw have a fancy alternate-reality term for following a hyperlink?
12:17:01 <int-e> Users build or modify stacks by adding new cards. . o O ( are those collectibles too? )
12:17:25 <int-e> This feels like something I should know about but also it was Apple so maybe that's why I don't.
12:18:15 <fizzie> I had some classmates in the Macintosh camp so I got a bit exposed that way, and then there's the Myst connection.
12:19:23 <fizzie> (Not an actual physical camp.)
12:19:30 <int-e> There is a Myst connection? (I played it on PC. I watched the making of and I know they used a lot of Apples but they talked mostly about 3D modelling and raytracing, and a bit about how they found that adding sound really improved immersion)
12:19:51 <fizzie> Myst was a big HyperCard stack.
12:20:38 <int-e> "HyperCard continued to be popular and used for a widening range of applications, from the game The Manhole, an earlier effort by the creators of Myst, to corporate information services." -- close enough
12:22:07 <fizzie> There's a story somewhere on the web on how they got Myst to be in color, something HyperCard didn't support in an official way until very very late.
12:22:48 <int-e> https://github.com/myst-lang/myst/blob/master/BYTECODE_REFERENCE.md (getting on topic :P)
12:23:02 <fizzie> Oh, maybe even "never" rather than "very late"? According to https://orangejuiceliberationfront.com/how-hypercard-got-its-color-back/
12:23:49 <int-e> I seem to recall that they wanted Myst to be portable. Not sure, my memory isn't too reliable and I don't know how I'd readily verify that claim.
12:24:40 <fizzie> Ah, it's only the never-released HyperCard 3.0 that would have had standard color support.
12:24:41 <int-e> (that Myst is, of course, a different Myst)
12:25:01 <int-e> (But Myst had some sort of virtual machine at its core.)
12:26:01 <b_jonas> int-e: "now this particular phrase is in everyday use" => I disagree, "hyperlink" is no longer in everyday use, people other than us oldies just call them a "link", which sounds much less futuristic. the word "hyperlink" is falling off use so much that we can now resue it for sci-fi/fantasy, with futuristic spaceships opening a "hyperlink" instead of a portal or wormhole or stargate or hyperspace bypass
12:26:36 <int-e> b_jonas: well yeah I'm equating hyperlink and link, and I usually say "link"
12:27:19 <int-e> (Depending on context obviously because "link" has other meanings. Though I guess if "link" is ambiguous I'll say "URL")
12:27:42 <b_jonas> sure, but "link" sounds less sci-fi/fantasy unless it's Link from Legend of Zelda, or a psychic
12:27:51 <HackEso> Spirit Link \ W \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature (Target a creature as you cast this. This card enters the battlefield attached to that creature.) \ Whenever enchanted creature deals damage, you gain that much life. \ LE-U, 4E-U, 5E-U, 6E-U, 7E-U, 8ED-U, 9ED-U, 10E-U
12:27:56 <int-e> But "URL" is *not* a good sci-fi term. :)
12:29:37 <b_jonas> fortunately the "hyper" part from "hypertext" or "hyperlink" is immortalized in techical contexts in abbreviations like "href" and "http" and "html"
12:31:18 <int-e> and "urchin" is immortalized in utm_*
12:40:49 <b_jonas> I've no idea what those are
12:41:16 <esolangs> [[Talk:PAGENAME]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155713 * Cycwin * (+25) what a weird language...
12:41:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:PAGENAME]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155714&oldid=155713 * Cycwin * (+2)
12:59:47 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155715&oldid=155695 * Hotcrystal0 * (+6)
13:41:07 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/common.css]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155716 * PkmnQ * (+64) will I regret this later? who knows
14:18:55 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155717&oldid=155621 * Lampe2020 * (+3494) Defined the language, added a bunch of additional info and refactored the entire page
14:24:36 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155718&oldid=155717 * Lampe2020 * (+7) Make it clear that C++ and JavaScript are not reference implementations but languages used for those
14:29:48 <korvo> int-e: While I don't know for sure, I would guess that there is a learned parameter which measures how likely you are to watch the video without sharing it. In that case, the tracking parameter can deanonymize you in Google's GAIA database.
14:31:14 <korvo> I've been wondering what "pp" stands for. I bet "si" stands for "search index" or "search iota" or similar; it only shows up on videos from search results.
14:31:34 <int-e> Well I'm coming at them with no cookies and the local storage disappears every day so they should do that for all the videos. ;)
14:31:52 <int-e> my guess was "share id"
14:32:05 <int-e> updated from "session id"
14:32:41 <int-e> I've seen a guess that "pp" was for "player params" but that makes no sense and probably made no sense when the guess was made.
14:33:28 <korvo> One way or another, they build profiles. YT knows what kinds of videos an IP address likes, knows what the browser fingerprints are inside a household, etc.
14:33:43 <int-e> it could be "profile picture" ;-)
14:33:46 <korvo> "player", "profile", "personal", "parameter", "preference", etc.
14:34:10 <fizzie> I did in fact look up the protobuf that parameter is a serialized form of, but can't comment.
14:35:02 <int-e> fizzie: you said more or less the same thing about udm=14 ;)
14:36:28 <fizzie> I guess it's probably okay to reveal that "player params" isn't far off, and that there were some bugs complaining how that particular proto is a mismash of all kinds of (internal and external) things in it and should be split, but nobody's gone through the trouble of doing that.
14:37:07 <int-e> heh I like "mismash" (but assume it was mishmash)
14:37:09 <korvo> fizzie: See, this is why working in CorpEng was great. The only products I can't talk about are internal and mostly dead now.
14:37:38 <fizzie> I don't work in YouTube, though, I just like taking a peek.
14:37:40 <korvo> I wonder if my NDA prevents me from encouraging folks to disassemble protobufs and do other reverse-engineering. I'll have to ask my lawyer.
14:38:30 <korvo> "if"? "whether", really. English is so difficult.
14:38:58 <int-e> they have iffy wheather
14:46:10 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155719&oldid=155718 * Lampe2020 * (-2) Remove redlink
15:10:30 <esolangs> [[4gn/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155720&oldid=155684 * JIT * (+12)
15:11:53 <esolangs> [[Pseudocode (College Board)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155721 * Stkptr * (+3796) create
15:12:33 <esolangs> [[Pseudocode (College Board)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155722&oldid=155721 * Stkptr * (+14)
15:13:00 <esolangs> [[Coral (zyBooks)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155723&oldid=155205 * Stkptr * (+25)
15:14:45 <esolangs> [[Pseudocode (College Board)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155724&oldid=155722 * Stkptr * (+6)
15:15:32 <esolangs> [[Talk:4gn/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155725&oldid=155690 * JIT * (+267) /* Pie Flavor */ new section
15:24:46 <esolangs> [[Counter clockwise]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155726&oldid=153082 * Stkptr * (+113)
15:28:50 <esolangs> [[User talk:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155727&oldid=150753 * Cycwin * (+150) /* Sorry? */ new section
15:31:18 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Akira * New user account
15:34:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155728&oldid=155688 * Akira * (+134)
15:38:12 <esolangs> [[LPeg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155729&oldid=155700 * Stkptr * (+53) It should be able to recognize CSGs, i.e. it models LBAs
15:41:59 <b_jonas> wait, what are these pp parameters? I know google maps sometimes adds extra parameters, but how do I get one from youtube?
15:42:20 <b_jonas> I probably saw one at some point in youtube too but don't remember how
15:49:59 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/common.css]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155730&oldid=155716 * PkmnQ * (+11)
15:54:49 <esolangs> [[META II]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155731&oldid=155702 * Stkptr * (+827) It seems to model only CFGs
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16:07:17 <esolangs> [[META II]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155732&oldid=155731 * Corbin * (+63) /* Syntax */ Reformat for readability.
16:12:14 <esolangs> [[Talk:META II]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155733 * Corbin * (+414) Explain the reconciliation I'm about to perform.
16:23:53 <esolangs> [[META II]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155734&oldid=155732 * Corbin * (+986) /* Syntax */ Explain how to use metasyntax.
16:46:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:META II]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155735&oldid=155733 * Stkptr * (+211)
17:04:55 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155736&oldid=155708 * C++DSUCKER * (+2897)
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17:13:21 <fizzie> I'm guessing the length will depend on whatever the reason was for getting one.
17:14:36 <fizzie> In the first 10 recommendations on my home page, one has a pp=... param that's 10 characters long.
17:17:25 <fizzie> Uh... 10 in base 16. (I can't count, apparently.)
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18:01:55 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/common.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155737&oldid=145536 * Ractangle * (+218)
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18:06:04 <int-e> over a hundred possible fields? wee
18:07:39 <esolangs> [[Talk:HAPPA]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155738 * RixTheTyrunt * (+0) Created blank page
18:08:53 <int-e> hrm didn't FF use to be able to display cookies
18:11:36 <int-e> (I mean in the preferences where you can also delete them... I guess it's now only possible in the "developer tools")
18:36:12 <zzo38> I did not upgrade Firefox because of the stuff they often remove or otherwise change. Nevertheless there are some features I had wanted from the newer version (such as TLS 1.3) but not the other stuff.
18:38:49 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155739&oldid=155736 * C++DSUCKER * (+4681)
18:40:16 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155740&oldid=155739 * C++DSUCKER * (+7) /* Alternative proofs */
18:47:25 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * RixTheTyrunt * uploaded "[[File:HAPPA.png]]"
18:47:47 <esolangs> [[HAPPA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155742&oldid=155705 * RixTheTyrunt * (+314)
19:12:22 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155743&oldid=153602 * C++DSUCKER * (+343)
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20:22:21 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155744&oldid=155704 * Buckets * (+11)
20:23:02 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155745&oldid=155683 * Buckets * (+10)
20:23:11 <esolangs> [[Spil]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155746 * Buckets * (+1493) Created page with "Spil is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2020. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Real Commands !! Instructions |- | 0-7 || Determines the movement, Push 0-7. |- | * || Toggle 0-7 to the Following Pseudo-Commands*. |} {| class="wikitable" |- ! Pseudo
20:25:25 <esolangs> [[Esorn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155747&oldid=154443 * Buckets * (+2)
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21:07:17 <Sgeo> TIL that something called Hytelnet exists
21:07:35 <Sgeo> (Saw a video about Gopher, then went to Floodgap's main site)
21:07:38 <Sgeo> https://www.floodgap.com/retrotech/hytelnet/
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21:25:12 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155748&oldid=155740 * C++DSUCKER * (+539)
21:43:32 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155749&oldid=154894 * Dmiz * (+272)
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21:44:50 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155750&oldid=155749 * Dmiz * (+0)
21:49:01 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155751&oldid=155750 * Dmiz * (+34)
21:53:53 <zzo38> I have now made five groups of cards which are not banned in Pseudo-Vintage, and two cards (Chaos Orb and Falling Star) which remain banned. (The latest additions are Attractions and stickers; however, many of those cards are acorn cards and those ones remain banned, but the others are not banned in Pseudo-Vintage.)
21:54:26 <zzo38> (One of these five groups contains only a single card.)
21:57:16 <esolangs> [[HAPPA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155752&oldid=155742 * Stkptr * (-75) IO is irrelevant for Turing completeness, and a Turing complete language requires bidirectional data storage (like a tape, queue, or pair of stacks)
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22:07:12 <b_jonas> five groups? (counting on fingers) un/acorn-cards; Ante cards; Shahrazad; dexterity cards like Chaos Orb; Crusade and six others. that's five, but didn't you say un-cards and five others?
22:13:19 <b_jonas> maybe the mystery boostr playtest cards, or the few other earlier cards that were published by Wizards but weren't intended to be tournament-legal but also aren't technically un-cards?
22:35:33 <zzo38> The acorn cards remain banned. Some of them (and some (not all) of the mystery playtest cards) are legal in Extended-Pseudo-Vintage, though.
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23:07:09 <korvo> I love how Schaharazade gets her own category.
23:07:43 <korvo> Oh, wow, it really is "Shahrazad". What a quirky spelling.
23:16:43 <zzo38> Yes, that is how the name of the card is spelled, and it is the only card in that category.
23:17:27 <b_jonas> korvo: yeah, it's funny because Chaos Orb was more obviously a mistake to print, yet they repeated it with Falling Star
23:17:50 <zzo38> I think it is not the only place where that spelling is used but it isn't that common outside of Magic: the Gathering
23:18:10 <b_jonas> but Shahrazad is so flavorful that if they tried to repeat the same mechanic with any other flavor it would look bad in comparison
23:18:54 <korvo> zzo38: I know of the card but I've never seen one in-person. It's one of those names that gets mangled with each retranslation of the story.
23:18:58 <b_jonas> so they didn't reprint it except as an un-card, and eventually they figured out Karn Liberated as a replacement that doesn't inherit the drawbacks
23:19:44 <b_jonas> korvo: yeah, and sometimes M:tG has different spellings of a word on different cards
23:21:23 <korvo> b_jonas: And it doesn't help that I played Hearthstone for a few years and I still have friends playing Runeterra. There are so many common one-color cards where I know what it does but not its MtG name.
23:22:01 <b_jonas> korvo: that happens with Slay the Spire too. same name as in M:tG, very different card
23:55:15 <zzo38> I had tried to figure out how to define locales in Xlib and I found files in /usr/share/X11/locale/ with stuff such as "XLC common/xlibi18n _XlcGenericLoader" and I also looked at the source code for Xlib, but I don't know what "common/xlibi18n" is (presumably it is a file name but I don't know where it is expected to be found), and I cannot find the documentation relating to this.