< 1744762790 583563 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I'm imagining a structure for storing metacompiler programs. It would be like a git repo where every program has an associated triple, and the relevant query would be to ask for a path from one language to another upon an available metacompiler. < 1744762811 134267 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, the question, right. Did you build something like this for Esimpl already? < 1744762869 620176 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not yet, I wanted to do something like that eventually but didn't get very far < 1744762912 797555 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I got as far as finding a specification for Esimpl itself I was happy with, but have basically written none of the masses of tooling I eventually envisaged for it < 1744763008 526195 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Okay, no worries. Did you write down any of your ideas? Right now I'm mostly just irritated with the fact that I'll have to assign names to languages injectively, which means that experimenting with dialects is going to be unfun. < 1744763078 229199 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anything I did write down will be in the Esimpl article – and my ideas were basically all very high-level < 1744763106 635824 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But the standard lore is isomorphic to what I've got so far. Like, there's technically no difference between "meta2-brainfuck-c" and anything I might dream up, besides improving the ergonomics over .split("-"). < 1744763130 98122 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I know that I wanted to build a single megaprogram that compiled between any supported languages, and implemented all the supported languages (possibly by compiling into Esimpl and interpreting itself), and had a quine-like ability to recompile itself into any supported language < 1744763154 168434 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I was planning to go between a common language, most likely Esimpl and restricted dialects of it < 1744763235 675346 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Okay. Would it be important/valuable to you for a tool to support many different common languages, or would you prefer a tool that was specialized to just one common language? < 1744763237 377915 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so all that's needed is (supported language) → Esimpl compilers, Esimpl → (supported language) compilers, and one interpreter for any of the supported langauges < 1744763283 948679 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, I mostly cared about the end result, and thought that going via one common language or a few very related common languages (e.g. stack-Esimpl and queue-Esimpl) would be the easiest way to do it, but I didn't particularly care about the implementation details < 1744763314 48435 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(also, the bundle-an-interpreter compilation method is totally valid for this, so interpreters can be used in place of compilers if necessary) < 1744763365 604550 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I basically see this as a pathfinding problem, but if there's only one common language then pathfinding is easy < 1744763415 560052 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :more generally, if the set of available compilations is a tree then pathfinding is easy, but this is complicated by the possibility of compilations possibly being one-way and it's unclear how a tree generalises to directed grpahs in this case < 1744763457 48144 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Even if the tree has to be loaded incrementally from a database, there's an admissible A* heuristic which says "at least one more". < 1744763507 11407 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which I know is not exactly efficient, but it is technically A* and thus I should receive a good grade~ < 1744763515 811302 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is being graded? < 1744763541 869033 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : I assumed I might be writing large parts of this in raw Esimpl, so i didn't want to make the pathfinding (or anything else, really) more complicated than it has to be < 1744763557 714104 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although, if I have a compiler from anything higher-level to Esimpl I could just write in that as the original language < 1744763571 707495 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I don't have such a compiler, though, yet, and making a good choice of high-level language could be difficult) < 1744763618 557654 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh! I remember one of my plans now – I was going to adapt an existing parser-generator to output in Esimpl, so I could write the parsers in a high-level language < 1744763672 929300 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Esimpl can implement a shift/reduce parsing automaton really easily < 1744764137 863877 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, that makes sense. < 1744764480 188220 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a parser + pretty-printer (that use the same AST format but for two different languages) is actually sufficient to transpile many simple esolangs < 1744764615 648673 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although Esimpl isn't a great target for doing that directly due to its need to number things, so you might need some way to generate sequence numbers in the resulting code < 1744764708 939892 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, now it's starting to come back – I also had an idea for something that converted control-flow graphs (represented using block structure like BF's []) into numbered basic blocks, primarily for that purpose < 1744764788 582470 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yep. I've been spending a lot of time today pondering that. Cammy doesn't have a character type yet, but ignoring that, a parser is just a particularly fun monad in the folklore, and the relevant writer-monad transformer just returns a list of emitted lines. < 1744764832 917644 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :META II emits lines and can be transformed into something which gives character-level control within a line. So can Tmg. So can either of them emit a Cammy program? If so, it'd be the easiest way to import parsing theory into Cammy. < 1744764886 234500 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, maybe I'll see if there's a challenge for this on codegolf SE yet < 1744764912 552048 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :probably converting BF [] into a list of numbered transitions < 1744764938 610367 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I suspect that the big issue is that both META II and Tmg have some sort of implicit general recursion disguised as explicit structural recursion. I don't know how dire that gets, but I'd need to find a well-founded counter for every recursive rule or figure out something else. < 1744765016 199140 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, if *that*'s the problem, many parsing styles like LR(1) have recursion depth bounded by the number of tokens in the input, because pushing a stack entry (either call stack or state stack, depending on how it's implemented) can only happen when reading a token < 1744765109 328662 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"write a parser automaton that you can prove total" is a topic that I'm really interested in, because a parser that's proven total and correct is also a proof that the grammar is unambiguous < 1744765154 968843 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and producing those eventually turns into a universal test of reasoning power because determining context-free grammar unambiguity is Turing-complete < 1744765255 648642 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh! Both META II and Tmg should admit Earley grammars. So I can just encode an Earley machine and spend cubic time at worst. Still a lot of work, but plausible. < 1744765334 20363 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :META II is interesting because it *should* encode PEGs but I can't quite work out how everything comes together. Probably not motivated enough. < 1744765439 439145 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, now I'm wondering whether it's decidable whether a CFG has a linear-time parsing algorithm; my guess is no but I'm not at all sure < 1744765472 479715 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, clearly undecidable, you can come up with parser rules that are only reachable if a certain TM halts < 1744765486 830656 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and if it doesn't halt the language parses in linear time < 1744765508 161963 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(this is assuming that there's at least one CFG that can't be parsed in linear-time, which seems likely but maybe hasn't been proven?) < 1744765548 895733 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, I should sleep < 1744765550 747527 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :night < 1744765554 721353 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1744765558 287561 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But note that you can decide whether a CFG has any associated PEGs which accept a subset; just try converting the unordered choices to ordered choices in all possible ways. < 1744765567 995135 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, right, EU time. Sorry! Night. < 1744769714 32866 :j4cbo!sid186930@id-186930.helmsley.irccloud.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1744769907 19472 :j4cbo!sid186930@id-186930.helmsley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs j4cbo :j4cbo < 1744778569 948585 :amadaluzia!~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1744783349 814763 :amadaluzia!~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia JOIN #esolangs amadaluzia :amadaluzia < 1744784869 572686 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:c0e6:9a43:de22:8c0a JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1744786062 466604 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Soxfox 5* 10New user account > 1744786193 255801 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beeping cyclic tag14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155948 5* 03Patcail 5* (+1797) 10Created page with "'''Beeping Cyclic Tag''' aims to be super-Turing complete tarpit inspired by [[Bitwise Cyclic Tag]] (i.e. this program is as powerful as a Turing machine augmented with an oracle). This is a very rudimentary [[Turing tarpit|Turing Tarpit]] that is stronger t > 1744786205 362287 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155949&oldid=155894 5* 03Soxfox 5* (+168) 10 > 1744786240 385389 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Patcail14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155950&oldid=155926 5* 03Patcail 5* (+24) 10 < 1744787949 963867 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1744787977 166636 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1744788031 306421 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1744789243 671183 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1744789246 418076 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi < 1744795758 215266 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1744796041 523098 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:c0e6:9a43:de22:8c0a QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1744796168 343533 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FooProg14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155951 5* 03None1 5* (+2237) 10Created page with "'''FooProg''' is a high-level, bytecode-compiled esolang invented by [[User:None1]] in 2023. Like its name, its author doesn't consider it important. In 2023, the compiler, disassembler and IDE written in Python (3.10+) and the bytecode interpreter written in Python and > 1744796323 951866 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EternalGolf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155952&oldid=155697 5* 03None1 5* (+39) 10/* Basic area */ > 1744796349 582494 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EternalGolf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155953&oldid=155952 5* 03None1 5* (+27) 10/* Examples */ > 1744796363 270586 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EternalGolf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155954&oldid=155953 5* 03None1 5* (+0) 10/* Infinite loop */ < 1744796591 957741 :amadaluzia_!~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia JOIN #esolangs amadaluzia :Artur Manuel > 1744797165 614483 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FooProg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155955&oldid=155951 5* 03None1 5* (+24) 10 > 1744798614 666331 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155956&oldid=155942 5* 03None1 5* (+14) 10/* F */ > 1744798754 380506 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155957&oldid=155347 5* 03None1 5* (+65) 10/* My Esolangs */ > 1744800038 958825 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EternalGolf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155958&oldid=155954 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+31) 10 > 1744800058 633218 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EternalGolf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155959&oldid=155958 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (-4) 10 > 1744802376 146457 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155960&oldid=155934 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (-26663) 10 < 1744803036 428845 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname > 1744803178 955744 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155961&oldid=155960 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+167) 10 > 1744803472 566225 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[074gn/14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155962&oldid=155720 5* 03JIT 5* (+3557) 10 > 1744803817 114543 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[074gn/14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155963&oldid=155962 5* 03JIT 5* (+0) 10/* Programs */ < 1744805521 847827 :amadaluzia_!~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia QUIT :Quit: Hi, this is Paul Allen. I'm being called away to London for a few days. Meredith, I'll call you when I get back. Hasta la vista, baby. < 1744805879 67002 :amadaluzia_!~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia JOIN #esolangs amadaluzia :Artur Manuel < 1744807834 803608 :amadaluzia!~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1744807858 673125 :amadaluzia!~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia JOIN #esolangs amadaluzia :amadaluzia > 1744808239 386426 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03TheSpiderNinjas 5* 10New user account > 1744808942 541419 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Onechar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155964&oldid=155798 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+131) 10/* The interpreter of Onechar */ > 1744809064 654901 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Onechar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155965&oldid=155964 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+0) 10/* The interpreter of Onechar */ > 1744809112 388202 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155966&oldid=155949 5* 03TheSpiderNinjas 5* (+295) 10TheSpiderNinjas' Introduction > 1744809163 82099 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Onechar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155967&oldid=155965 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+2) 10/* The interpreter of Onechar */ > 1744809247 999732 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Onechar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155968&oldid=155967 5* 03Cycwin 5* (-11) 10/* The interpreter of Onechar */ < 1744811457 618610 :amadaluzia!~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1744811567 13888 :amadaluzia_!~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1744811999 323003 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BitChanger Busy beaver14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155969&oldid=155941 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+20) 10 > 1744812136 114475 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EternalGolf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155970&oldid=155959 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+28) 10 > 1744812531 988580 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BitChanger Busy beaver14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155971&oldid=155969 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+1) 10 > 1744814166 517756 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Revolution 914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155972&oldid=155591 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+2098) 10Introduced an examples sections intrining as its incipial members a Hello, World! printer, a repeating cat program, and a truth-machine, added a hyperlink to my implementation on GitHub, and altered the Unimplemented page category to Implemented. > 1744814239 521189 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Revolution 914]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155973&oldid=155972 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+2) 10Amended a section header's level. < 1744814413 356753 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname > 1744814963 283040 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[074gn/14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155974&oldid=155963 5* 03JIT 5* (+72) 10/* Programs */ < 1744817041 558195 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :cu < 1744819618 616913 :amadaluzia!~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia JOIN #esolangs amadaluzia :Artur Manuel > 1744820962 199906 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!/*14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155975&oldid=155898 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+527) 10 > 1744820982 539080 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!/*14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155976&oldid=155975 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+0) 10 > 1744821104 590383 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!/*14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155977&oldid=155976 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-186) 10 > 1744821133 456463 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!/*14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155978&oldid=155977 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-12) 10 > 1744821239 774545 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!/*14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155979&oldid=155978 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+24) 10/* Error handling */ > 1744821437 675432 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BooleanFunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155980&oldid=155443 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-543) 10 > 1744821600 599446 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155981 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+239) 10Created page with "Good afternoon! I am TenBillionPlusOne, also known as TBPO, PiSpaceships or KapitanGamer. == My esolangs == * [[BooleanFunge]] is Befunge but operating on bits. * [[!/*]] is a totally uninteresting total esolang unusable for programming." > 1744821678 787231 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BooleanFunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155982&oldid=155980 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-156) 10 > 1744821723 809882 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:KapitanGamer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155983&oldid=155452 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-781) 10Redirected page to [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] > 1744821750 697772 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BooleanFunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155984&oldid=155982 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-53) 10 > 1744822130 456447 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155985&oldid=155981 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+198) 10 > 1744822543 221298 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BooleanFunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155986&oldid=155984 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+43) 10 > 1744825081 41663 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Poke14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155987&oldid=155911 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+80) 10 > 1744825225 486924 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Be1-14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155988&oldid=155915 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+116) 10 > 1744825231 651287 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Poke14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155989&oldid=155987 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+19) 10 > 1744825466 48678 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155990&oldid=155843 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+29) 10It can model all computable sets > 1744825487 313750 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155991&oldid=155990 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+4) 10/* Computational Class */ > 1744825639 708800 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rayofuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155992&oldid=155924 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+29) 10It's at least Turing complete, I don't know if the wiki will have greater categories anytime soon > 1744826087 604629 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155993&oldid=153070 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+201) 10random > 1744826098 430879 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Calculation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155994&oldid=155920 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+112) 10 > 1744826113 214863 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beeping cyclic tag14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155995&oldid=155948 5* 03Patcail 5* (+541) 10 > 1744826155 631345 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beeping cyclic tag14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155996&oldid=155995 5* 03Patcail 5* (-1) 10 > 1744826334 51523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Incorrect14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155997&oldid=155917 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+111) 10 > 1744826695 256509 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Consequential14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155998&oldid=102935 5* 03Gapples2 5* (+1186) 10tc proof < 1744828010 323429 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:c0e6:9a43:de22:8c0a JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1744828156 86010 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BooleanFunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155999&oldid=155986 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+61) 10 > 1744828268 840287 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FooProg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156000&oldid=155955 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+35) 10"Long doubles" > 1744828299 651598 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Revolution 914]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156001&oldid=155973 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+0) 10/* Interpreter */ > 1744829287 801630 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Meta Minsky Machine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156002 5* 03Patcail 5* (+2171) 10Created page with "'''Meta Minsky Machine''' (MMM) is a hyperarithmetic language which allows for it to ask about its own halting. Specifically, it allows for paradoxical programs if their simulation structure is not well-founded. == Specification == There are three register > 1744829330 98332 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Patcail14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156003&oldid=155950 5* 03Patcail 5* (+25) 10 > 1744829337 998912 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07T-rexes14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156004&oldid=155909 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+6) 10 > 1744829439 713601 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Loop preventing brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156005&oldid=152531 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (-110) 10 < 1744830696 709131 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38 < 1744831932 835872 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh there's some Factorio speedrunning related drama around a "fix" that raised the requirements of a bunch of enemy related achievements so that current 100% runs would no longer trigger them. https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?t=128162 < 1744831952 46220 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(discussion starts about 5 replies in) > 1744832303 327137 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07T-rexes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156006&oldid=156004 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+765) 10 < 1744832314 473160 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hah. "Watch the devs rollback that bugfix and add a new achievement for 'finish the game in 40 hours with default settings'" (The starting point of all of this is that 100% doesn't use default settings.) > 1744832336 303125 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07T-rexes14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156007&oldid=156006 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+2) 10 > 1744832640 323378 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07T-rexes14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156008&oldid=156007 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+2) 10 < 1744832691 866561 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: or they'll just be playing old versions from now on > 1744832714 580789 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Loop preventing brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156009&oldid=156005 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+272) 10 > 1744832728 706124 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Loop preventing brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156010&oldid=156009 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+0) 10 < 1744832728 800793 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :TBH I expect a 90% (whatever the precise math works out to) category. Or a mod, but wouldn't that completely disable achievements instead? < 1744832749 468602 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Unless Wube can be persuaded but that doesn't seem to be the case. < 1744832842 737732 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I have no horse in this race, just opinions) < 1744832858 536872 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although I think it might get reverted rather than merged into the stable branch < 1744832906 679257 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's a very old legacy bug, present long before Factorio 2, so it probably counts as a feature now. if they apply this, new players will be on unequal footing in getting the achivements, even outside of speedrunning. < 1744832916 755524 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm? It's in version 2.0.45, isn't that a stable one? < 1744832946 906471 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Re: no horse... I don't even have the game) < 1744832990 443396 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, they release versions as unstable, and after like two or four such versions, they put it onto the stable branch. the game is by default configured to only update to stable versions, though you can make it update to unstable. < 1744833074 745700 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :at least part of it is a genuine bug, as in the game shouldn't have worked that way, but it's an ascended bug now > 1744833082 510702 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Loop preventing brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156011&oldid=156010 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+107) 10 < 1744833126 436104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, I see. 2.0.42 is currently stable. That was not obvious at all. (I found the info on https://direct.factorio.com/download/experimental ) < 1744833257 407755 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :as in the achievements are disabled if you enable the "peaceful" setting, which means that enemies don't attack from pollution or proximity, they only attack if you damage them. so achievement runs don't set "pacific". but they instead set the pollution settings so pollution doesn't spread at all, which is close enough for practical purposes: if pollution doesn't spread at all then you just have to make < 1744833263 417216 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure you don't pollute in the same chunk (aligned 32×32 tile square) as a biter base, and don't go close enough to a biter to trigger proximity attack, and you're fine. you can just build your base without the enemies bothering you. (except you do have to trigger a small attack once or twice for specific achievements) < 1744833296 413648 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is exactly why there are experimental releases: advanced players can test them and find big problems like this. < 1744833306 477192 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :funny, thedoh went full frontal assault mode and asked about biter base spawn blocking https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?t=128208 < 1744833370 254886 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that was known for months, it's not related to this < 1744833407 366141 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"makes it trivial to deal with biters" is not true by the way, for an all achievements run < 1744833433 345969 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But has Wube "officially ruled" on it? It's a good thing to clarify that it's not a bug so it hopefully won't be fixed in a future update. < 1744833434 243287 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that strategy can be useful, but "trivial" is a big exaggeration. < 1744833444 669578 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Pretty sure thedoh is being sarcastic. < 1744833479 810160 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that thread https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?t=128208 is in the "not a bug" folder, so the ruling is not a bug < 1744833511 466452 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've watched a few of her runs and seen some comments on other streams and that seems to fit her general disposition. < 1744833622 719844 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I'm not disputing that it's now classified as "not a bug". The post is from today and came after the other "bugfix", where the justification is that achievements shouldn't be trivialized. < 1744833626 678143 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION shrugs
< 1744833779 599254 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, but since that one doesn't trivialize the achievements so not a bug is a reasonable take < 1744834689 175250 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Unrelated: "I should just use an existing portable assembly language" is such a trap. Java, OCaml, and Go all offer something like that and it's not worth it. > 1744834732 135192 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BitChanger Busy beaver14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156012&oldid=155971 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+21) 10 < 1744834975 343541 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: webassembly? < 1744834983 924319 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh wait, that reminds me > 1744835669 376898 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/brainfuck program naming scheme14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156013 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+248) 10draft < 1744836708 369100 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Maybe? WASM's not bad, but GC is still a pain. > 1744836812 897849 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Metacompiler14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156014 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1995) 10Stub a concept. This is actually fairly complete, though! < 1744836902 46421 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Can somebody double-check the orientation of the languages in [[Metacompiler]]? I think I got it right; the metacompiler in [[META II]] is the given program, and then there's a bootstrapping artifact in an assembly language which can regenerate itself under that metacompiler. < 1744836944 964995 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which means that in terms of build-host-target, the metacompiler is written in the host language, and the fixed point connects build and target. Which feels backwards. > 1744836974 393466 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Loop preventing brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156015&oldid=156011 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+527) 10 < 1744837114 942305 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wrote some local scripts to test this out, including an interpreter for META II's original assembly language which can regenerate a fixed point. I'd test with Tmg but its metacompiler is quite a bit larger! < 1744837135 857961 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: What do you mean by "GC is still a pain"? (GC wouldn't be at my top of requirements for a portable assembly language, but maybe I misunderstand the connection) < 1744837182 998325 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I'm mostly compiling high-level functional constructions and have gotten used to having a GC. I'd need to do a lot of monomorphizing and defunctionalizing to squeeze into WASM's way of doing things. < 1744837223 156862 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's a WASM-GC extension that was ratified a year or two ago, but support is spotty and none of the runtimes are very efficient yet. < 1744837280 498522 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess I could just write my own WASM interpreter. < 1744837350 16305 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ugh, okay, I need to rephrase some of [[Metacompiler]] to not suck. Lunch first though. < 1744837484 299914 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :okay. yeah they barely have dynamic memory allocation (memory.grow) < 1744837870 644926 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: re "existing portable assembly language", see https://www.linusakesson.net/games/stranded64/index.php > 1744840152 551033 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Durge14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156016 5* 03Imakesi 5* (+361) 10Created page with "DURGE DURGE IMPLEMENT DURGE ```python print("DURGE") ``` DURGE CODE ```DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE ``` DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE WHAT > 1744840199 369153 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Durge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156017&oldid=156016 5* 03Imakesi 5* (-92) 10 > 1744840497 814461 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156018&oldid=155893 5* 03Imakesi 5* (+59) 10 > 1744840848 688609 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156019&oldid=155956 5* 03Buckets 5* (+11) 10 > 1744840923 658232 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156020&oldid=155943 5* 03Buckets 5* (+10) 10 > 1744840951 597811 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156021 5* 03Buckets 5* (+1914) 10Created page with "{{Lowercase}} is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2024. has infinite Commands; Most of them are Non-Unicode characters. But for demonstration Purposes, This Page will show them as Overlapped Unicode Characters. Most Dialects are Overlapped > 1744840974 852091 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156022&oldid=156021 5* 03Buckets 5* (+0) 10 < 1744841588 739371 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:c0e6:9a43:de22:8c0a QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1744842048 507289 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Meta Minsky Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156023&oldid=156002 5* 03Patcail 5* (+45) 10 > 1744842260 410829 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Befunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156024&oldid=155581 5* 03Buckets 5* (+154) 10 > 1744842280 372114 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07????14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156025 5* 03Imakesi 5* (+690) 10Created page with ""????" is a language that only operates in "if" statements. It is made to intentionally do nothing except the "????" print statement that prints "?" (what the esolang is named after). "?" initiates an if statement, and then "??" on the next line for true, or "???" for false > 1744842341 211579 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156026&oldid=156018 5* 03Imakesi 5* (+42) 10 > 1744842435 683633 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07????14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156027&oldid=156025 5* 03Imakesi 5* (+161) 10 > 1744842581 872991 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Befunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156028&oldid=156024 5* 03Buckets 5* (+0) 10 > 1744842784 312369 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Befunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156029&oldid=156028 5* 03Buckets 5* (-28) 10 < 1744843215 759312 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would think that how important GC is would depend what the portable assembly language is being used for. > 1744843638 222908 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Befunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156030&oldid=156029 5* 03Buckets 5* (+260) 10 > 1744843816 449230 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07????14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156031&oldid=156027 5* 03Imakesi 5* (-282) 10 > 1744843922 544989 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Befunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156032&oldid=156030 5* 03Buckets 5* (+16) 10/* Hello, World! */ < 1744843930 74791 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1744843936 609752 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07????14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156033&oldid=156031 5* 03Imakesi 5* (+750) 10 < 1744843990 100663 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1744844814 443323 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Oh wow, what a fun story. It is really interesting to think about how emulation is merely a 2-4x slowdown, which is sometimes not that much. > 1744844915 522798 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Metalanguage14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156034 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+3314) 10Create page > 1744845072 461746 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Funciton14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156035&oldid=154816 5* 03Soxfox 5* (-70) 10Revert edits that broke alignment > 1744845374 316839 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Metacompiler14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156036&oldid=156014 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+296) 10Link to metalanguage, more to add > 1744845558 788296 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Metalanguage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156037&oldid=156034 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+240) 10 < 1744845574 350174 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement > 1744846267 341983 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Metalanguage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156038&oldid=156037 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+142) 10sectios > 1744846498 352807 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07????14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156039&oldid=156033 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+134) 10 > 1744846619 182584 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Durge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156040&oldid=156017 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+140) 10 > 1744846791 188742 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Oracle machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156041&oldid=153979 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+146) 10 < 1744847347 872722 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname