00:05:26 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156629&oldid=156617 * Stkptr * (+693)
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00:17:40 <Sgeo_> I'm vaguely curious about systems with both +0 and -0 other than IEEE floating point, which I kind of assumed was just hacky
00:17:50 <Sgeo_> *both +0 and -0 as distinct values
00:20:41 <chloetax> oh neat, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signed_zero
00:23:21 <zzo38> I think transreal numbers have positive and negative zero, and also nullity, but transreal numbers defines nullity equal to itself rather than IEEE doesn't
01:25:09 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156630&oldid=156625 * PrySigneToFry * (+113)
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01:51:07 <esolangs> [[Lythnology]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156631&oldid=153438 * RainbowDash * (+144)
02:01:10 <esolangs> [[Lythnology]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156632&oldid=156631 * RainbowDash * (+42) /* Transforming */
02:30:06 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156633&oldid=156629 * Zhil * (+63) Added {a, b, c}
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02:55:14 <esolangs> [[B i n a r y]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156634&oldid=134996 * PrySigneToFry * (+69) An example for converting base-10 system to balanced base-3 system then B i n a r y base-2 system.
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03:08:33 <esolangs> [[Concatenative calculus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156635&oldid=156627 * Stkptr * (+11)
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04:11:05 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156636&oldid=156511 * RainbowDash * (-9)
04:24:02 <zzo38> I think that, with my idea of an instruction set with "capability" values, that there is the possibility that an uninitialized variable in C can sometimes lead to crashes where in other systems it won't; sometimes even just trying to assign the value of one variable to another will crash the program, if the one being copied from is uninitialized.
04:34:42 <zzo38> I thought that {} should always initialize everything regardless of whether or not there is anything in between the braces, and that {0} should only be valid if the first member is a numeric or pointer type (but otherwise has the same effect as {} with nothing in between). I thought that would make more sense, isn't it?
05:17:21 <esolangs> [[Noise automata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156637&oldid=156574 * RainbowDash * (+347) stkptr found this stuff out i just wrote it
05:39:47 <esolangs> [[Brainf ck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156638&oldid=132158 * Stkptr * (+212)
05:45:45 <esolangs> [[@everyone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156639&oldid=116029 * Stkptr * (+130)
06:00:48 <esolangs> [[Bogus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156640&oldid=122240 * Stkptr * (+449)
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06:30:40 <esolangs> [[Nondeterministic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156641&oldid=156622 * Stkptr * (+429)
06:42:12 <esolangs> [[Blank]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156642&oldid=55003 * Stkptr * (+396)
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07:01:47 <esolangs> [[Bitwise Scanner]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156643&oldid=151229 * Stkptr * (+573)
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07:12:50 <esolangs> [[BITWISEBASE64BITWISEBASE64BITWISEBASE64BITWISE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156644&oldid=108563 * Stkptr * (-12) Counter machines
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07:21:32 <esolangs> [[256]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156645&oldid=145121 * Stkptr * (-156)
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08:52:37 <esolangs> [[User:C0ffee]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156646&oldid=155947 * C0ffee * (-18)
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10:14:41 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156647&oldid=156633 * PkmnQ * (+38) /* Kerby Combinators */ j no parens
10:41:06 <esolangs> [[Tic Tac Toe(Program Form)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156648&oldid=143691 * PrySigneToFry * (+145)
10:42:20 <esolangs> [[Tic Tac Toe(Program Form)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156649&oldid=156648 * PrySigneToFry * (+33)
10:42:41 <esolangs> [[Tic Tac Toe(Program Form)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156650&oldid=156649 * PrySigneToFry * (+1)
10:45:42 <esolangs> [[TM (I am islptng)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156651&oldid=151606 * PrySigneToFry * (+150)
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10:48:44 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156652&oldid=156342 * PrySigneToFry * (+204)
10:52:12 <esolangs> [[User talk:Xyzzy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156653&oldid=138594 * PrySigneToFry * (+956) /* You're invited to EternalGolf Development Team. */ new section
10:52:56 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156654&oldid=155970 * PrySigneToFry * (+18)
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11:36:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:Chef]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156655&oldid=122747 * PrySigneToFry * (+951) /* So how should Chef make anything about these Latin thingy? */ new section
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12:03:11 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156656&oldid=156647 * PkmnQ * (-145) /* Base Lengths */ 5 is possible
12:59:39 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156657&oldid=156656 * Zhil * (+145) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/156656|156656]] by [[Special:Contributions/PkmnQ|PkmnQ]] ([[User talk:PkmnQ|talk]])
13:04:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:PkmnQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156658&oldid=156556 * Zhil * (+261)
13:12:35 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156659&oldid=156657 * Zhil * (+23)
13:14:18 <esolangs> [[User:Zhil]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156660 * Zhil * (+178) Created page with "You can contact me on Discord, where my name is also just Zhil. I tend to accept all friend requests. Alternatively, I'm on the [https://discord.gg/3UXSK5p Esolangs Discord] too."
13:53:58 <esolangs> [[Phi]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156661 * PrySigneToFry * (+3837) Created page with "Phi, or , is an Esolang designed by PSTF. It is a Brainfuck derivative. = Data storage = The program memory is composed of a theoretically infinite number of cells, that each store a single integer datum, in the range of Z. At any instant in the program, a pointer
13:55:10 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156662&oldid=156606 * PrySigneToFry * (+10)
14:03:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:Functional calculus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156663 * Corbin * (+1197) General-recursive terms don't denote functions. (Oh boy, Corbin's up on that hill again~)
14:08:29 <esolangs> [[Phi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156664&oldid=156661 * PrySigneToFry * (+285)
14:25:10 <b_jonas> Sgeo_: there are some computers that work with sign-magnitude integer words, see in particular https://esolangs.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer . but this went out of fashion because it's just harder to work with than the now universal two's complement.
14:27:01 <b_jonas> effectively when you don't need the sign bit it's wasted rather than used as another magnitude bit on the top, and for a lot of operations you have to think separately about the sign bit, rather than think about a single integer with a uniform array of bits where you sometimes do special things with the highest or lowest bits
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15:23:27 <esolangs> [[Divzeros]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156665&oldid=76542 * Stkptr * (-12) Counters... unbounded integers... looping... conditionals...
15:39:11 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156666&oldid=156659 * PkmnQ * (+43) /* Kerby Combinators */ forgot to put this thingy here earlier
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16:20:35 <esolangs> [[Circlefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156667&oldid=85440 * Stkptr * (+702)
16:22:26 <esolangs> [[Circlefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156668&oldid=156667 * Stkptr * (+333) /* Computational class */
16:25:25 <esolangs> [[Bipoint]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156669&oldid=34005 * Stkptr * (-6) It is encompassed by finite state automata and not less powerful than the least powerful one
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16:41:25 <fizzie> GMP integers use a sign-and-magnitude representation, but have only one zero.
16:41:30 <fizzie> (The sign is recorded as the sign of the field that keeps track of the number of limbs.)
16:41:47 <esolangs> [[Composite]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156670&oldid=89030 * Stkptr * (-6) Dictated to be 32 bit ints
16:42:17 <ais523> I have considered writing a bignum library, but I was planning to use two's complement
16:42:34 <ais523> with a rule that the topmost bit repeats forever, to allow for the fact that the number of bits in a bignum is variable
16:43:11 <ais523> I did something very similar in the Esimpl BF interpreter, actually – it uses bignums expressed in binary, with a "top bit repeats forever" rule
16:43:49 <fizzie> I guess if GMP supports any C implementations that have both a negative zero and a positive one (not sure if it does), then by extension mpz_t will also have that, but you couldn't tell them apart with the normal API anyway.
16:43:58 <ais523> although there, the only bignum operations I needed to express were increment and decrement
16:49:37 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156671&oldid=156666 * Zhil * (-62)
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16:56:06 <fizzie> I think I've come across an implicitly repeated-forever top bit somewhere, but can't remember where. Looks like it's *not* (C)Python, which AFAICT does sign-and-magnitude, except uses two "tag" bits for the sign, with 0 = positive, 1 = zero, 2 = negative (and presumably 3 is invalid).
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17:06:05 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156672&oldid=156671 * Zhil * (+123)
17:32:17 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156673&oldid=156672 * Zhil * (+535) Added 2-combinator base with length 6
17:39:44 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156674&oldid=156630 * Hotcrystal0 * (+14)
18:11:35 <esolangs> [[Bueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156675&oldid=140464 * Stkptr * (+441)
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18:19:29 <esolangs> [[Fumber]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156676&oldid=127573 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+162) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Fumber programming language on GitHub and altered the Unimplemented category tag to Implemented.
18:20:09 <esolangs> [[Normalized Fumber]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156677&oldid=127571 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+188) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Normalized Fumber programming language on GitHub and altered the Unimplemented category tag to Implemented.
18:20:50 <esolangs> [[Normalized Fumber]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156678&oldid=156677 * Kaveh Yousefi * (-2) Rectified my lapsus of not veridically altering the Unimplemented tag.
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18:24:27 <esolangs> [[Normalized Fumber]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156679&oldid=156678 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+194) Introduced an examples section comprehending one incipial member in a Hello, World! program.
18:25:34 <esolangs> [[Normalized Fumber]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156680&oldid=156679 * Kaveh Yousefi * (-4) Expunged two backslashes (\), remnants from the Common Lisp implementation, from the Hello, World! program.
18:37:38 <esolangs> [[256]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156681&oldid=156645 * Ractangle * (+1) /* 256.js */
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18:38:32 <zzo38> I also thought it is good idea, that the sign bit should be effectively repeated forever.
18:40:26 <zzo38> Is there big integers library that can deal with arrays of big integers and will deal with allocation etc? Also, if a ratio of big integers can be converted to floating point, and to be able to convert integers to/from the sequence of bytes
18:46:08 <esolangs> [[COBOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156682&oldid=146289 * Stkptr * (+789)
18:51:35 <ais523> zzo38: for which language? most higher-level languages have arrays or lists that can deal with allocation of anything the language supports, including big integers
18:51:56 <ais523> and converting to/from a byte sequence is very common for bigint libraries
18:52:02 <b_jonas> every bignum library uses sign-magnitude representation. I don't know why.
18:52:30 <ais523> I don't think I've seen "ratio to floating point" before, though (although lots of libraries support arbitrary-precision floats, so you could cast a bigint to that and then divide)
18:53:01 <ais523> b_jonas: nor me – Perl Math::BigInt is even weirder because it supports multiple backends but seems to do the sign-magnitude itself and just use the backends for unsigned calculaitons
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18:56:59 <zzo38> Effectively repeating sign bits forever is also useful for making bitwise operations on big integers, and for converting to/from anything else that uses two's complement, too.
18:58:06 <b_jonas> I have technically implemented bignum libraries for esoteric purposes, one at http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/Bin.hs which works with a linked list of bits; one at https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=849292 which is a base 10 one but implements only addition and subtraction, not multiplication; and one at https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=989716 which doesn't even have subtraction
18:58:42 <b_jonas> I don't think I want to implement a non-esoteric one because there are already good bignum libraries with free licences that I can use
18:59:01 <esolangs> [[User:Stkptr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156683&oldid=156580 * Stkptr * (+129)
19:02:49 <ais523> I was benchmarking some languages' builtin bignums a while ago, checking computational order rather than the constant factors
19:03:29 <ais523> surprisingly many seem to be worse than the O(n log n o(log n)) that's possible for practical multiplication algorithms
19:03:54 <esolangs> [[Bayes Leaf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156684&oldid=37015 * Stkptr * (+808)
19:03:57 <ais523> (my test is normally to start with 3, then square repeatedly and see what happens to the performance over time)
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20:22:33 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156685&oldid=156662 * Buckets * (+17)
20:23:03 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156686&oldid=156505 * Buckets * (+16)
20:23:19 <esolangs> [[Braincrypt]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156687 * Buckets * (+13279) Created page with "{{WIP}} Braincrypt is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2022. Braincrypt is more of An experiment, It has an Encryption to [[brainfuck]], But Each iteration would Encrypt/Encode it more and More. Braincrypt has the Idea of "If it quac
20:24:07 <esolangs> [[Braincrypt]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156688&oldid=156687 * Buckets * (+0)
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20:30:27 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156689&oldid=156579 * Grub * (+125)
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21:24:43 <esolangs> [[Quinary Bueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156690&oldid=152168 * Stkptr * (+103)
21:27:12 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156691&oldid=156581 * Stkptr * (+414)
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21:56:13 <esolangs> [[Computational class]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156692&oldid=153561 * Stkptr * (+3440)
22:00:16 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156693&oldid=156673 * Xylochoron * (+1) Small typo fix
22:00:49 <esolangs> [[Computational class]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156694&oldid=156692 * Stkptr * (+50) /* Versus complexity */
22:03:59 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156695&oldid=156693 * Xylochoron * (+19)
22:07:57 <esolangs> [[2L]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156696&oldid=53671 * Stkptr * (+54)
22:08:06 <esolangs> [[1L]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156697&oldid=140795 * Stkptr * (+54)
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