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00:43:33 <esolangs> [[Horse/Implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156908&oldid=156905 * RainbowDash * (+409) Negatives and comments
01:32:04 <esolangs> [[Lythnology/Implementations]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156909 * RainbowDash * (+13401) Created page with "Python (Made by Claude AI) <pre> import random import sys def number_to_words(n): ones = ["", "ONE", "TWO", "THREE", "FOUR", "FIVE", "SIX", "SEVEN", "EIGHT", "NINE"] teens = ["TEN", "ELEVEN", "TWELVE", "THIRTEEN", "FOURTEEN", "FIFTEEN",
01:33:18 <esolangs> [[Lythnology]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156910&oldid=156632 * RainbowDash * (+51)
01:33:33 <esolangs> [[Lythnology]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156911&oldid=156910 * RainbowDash * (+0)
01:39:37 <esolangs> [[Lythnology]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156912&oldid=156911 * RainbowDash * (+215) update generals
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06:29:52 <esolangs> [[Zaddy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156914&oldid=156564 * Corbin * (+465) After multiple nights of struggle, I got packrat PEGs to work.
06:32:18 <esolangs> [[Zaddy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156915&oldid=156914 * Corbin * (+216) /* Binding-time Hoare logic */ Fill out reference to The Book. The PDF is freely available.
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06:54:50 <esolangs> [[Inject]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156916&oldid=80679 * Stkptr * (-12) See Iterated regex for arguments for TC
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10:15:05 <esolangs> [[Rewind]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156917&oldid=156822 * JIT * (+43)
10:21:18 <esolangs> [[Rinuk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156918&oldid=154153 * JIT * (+64)
10:42:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Leon.12 * New user account
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11:09:28 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156919&oldid=156899 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+14)
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11:48:15 <wib_jonas> question. is https://esolangs.org/wiki/Mlatu equivalent to Underload without the S builtin and with different names for the other builtins? or is there some difference that I'm not seeing?
11:52:32 <wib_jonas> hmm, apparently there's a separate https://esolangs.org/wiki/Mlatu and https://esolangs.org/wiki/Mlatu-6 which differ in order of evaluation, so maybe Mlatu differs from Underload in its evaluation order too? but I'm not sure if that matters
11:53:58 <wib_jonas> I'm also somewhat bothered by how the < and > builtins in Mlatu are named backwards compared to the same builtins in J the APL-like
12:01:58 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mlatu]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156920 * B jonas * (+372) Relation to Underload
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12:05:26 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mlatu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156921&oldid=156920 * B jonas * (+264)
12:05:44 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mlatu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156922&oldid=156921 * B jonas * (+0)
12:08:30 <esolangs> [[Forthrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156923&oldid=156902 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1367)
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12:09:31 <wib_jonas> ok, so mlatu lets you define new symbols and arbitrary term rewriting rules for sequences of them, so it's more powerful, but still I'd like to understand the relationship between it and Underload because the wiki articles don't seem to mention anything
12:11:03 <wib_jonas> pinging ais523 on this for obvious reasons
12:11:06 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156924&oldid=156765 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+74) /* My esolangs */
12:12:37 <esolangs> [[Forthrooms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156925&oldid=156923 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-14)
12:13:16 <wib_jonas> also https://esolangs.org/wiki/Mlatu links to https://esolangs.org/wiki/Concatenative_calculus which explains the Underload-like subset but then also mentions lambdas, so that might be an interesting language too, and then this links to http://tunes.org/~iepos/joy.html which talks about the same thing but is older than Underload
12:16:33 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156926&oldid=156919 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+10) /* Non-alphabetic */
12:20:15 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156927&oldid=156926 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+17) /* F */
12:22:40 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156928&oldid=156927 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+18) /* I */
12:23:11 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mlatu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156929&oldid=156922 * B jonas * (+258)
12:34:14 <esolangs> [[Talk:Underload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156930&oldid=150296 * B jonas * (+355) /* Relation to mlatu */ new section
12:34:52 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mlatu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156931&oldid=156929 * B jonas * (+29) heading
12:35:59 <esolangs> [[Talk:Underload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156932&oldid=156930 * B jonas * (+36) /* Relation to mlatu */
12:47:57 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1324.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo boily nortti b_jonas Noisytoot
13:15:52 <wib_jonas> ``` : "oh, you're asking what the olist is."; \? olist
13:15:56 <HackEso> olist is update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html
13:17:17 <wib_jonas> this is an update notification list that has been operating for quite a long time but isn't automated
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13:27:42 <int-e> https://research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/challenges/May2025.html looks very challenging ;-) (right now)
13:30:17 <int-e> wib_jonas: I'm not sure that's accurate; OOTS does have an RSS feed.
13:31:04 <int-e> So the list is *redundant* for that purpose. But... it serves (or at least used to serve) a social purpose.
13:43:15 <int-e> Sorry for explaining the obvious. But at least I'm not the only one doing that here. :-)
13:52:23 <wib_jonas> yes, I mean we don't have an automated method of triggering the olist notification here, not that it couldn't be automated
13:53:06 <int-e> but then you'd lose the signaling effect (one person interested in the thing is currently "awake")
13:58:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mlatu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156933&oldid=156931 * Stkptr * (+391)
14:03:09 <esolangs> [[Concatenative calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156934&oldid=156635 * Stkptr * (+149) /* Languages */
14:16:52 <esolangs> [[Intolerant]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156935&oldid=74811 * Stkptr * (+229)
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15:10:29 <esolangs> [[Br greater than]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156936&oldid=147268 * * (+189) Added new commands and a Fibonacci machine
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17:07:56 <esolangs> [[Concatenative language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156937&oldid=88193 * Corbin * (+458) Copy a listing from [[concatenative calculus]].
17:11:55 <esolangs> [[Concatenative calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156938&oldid=156934 * Corbin * (+139) This page really has to say "monoid" at some point. Fix opening paragraph, cite Von Thun, and fix up language list. I will propose a new language category.
17:21:02 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156939&oldid=156559 * Corbin * (+694) /* Monoids */ We have more than a few such languages now!
17:22:00 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Single value arbitrary memory emulation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156940 * Aadenboy * (+2232) not sure if this is appropriate for mainspace so it'll be here instead
17:36:21 <esolangs> [[Concatenative language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156941&oldid=156937 * Corbin * (-46) Try a little harder. Still not a fan of this page.
17:38:52 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Single value arbitrary memory emulation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156942&oldid=156940 * Aadenboy * (-4) fix equation
17:39:58 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Aadenboy * moved [[User:Aadenboy/Single value arbitrary memory emulation]] to [[Arbitrary memory emulation]]: eh, why not. mainspace it is. someone can move it back if it's not appropriate, though I think it could have use for computation given limited registers
17:52:19 <esolangs> [[User:B jonas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156945&oldid=150873 * B jonas * (+467) /* Todo */
17:57:10 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156946&oldid=156877 * Aadenboy * (+153) article
17:57:19 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156947&oldid=156946 * Aadenboy * (+0) /* ARTICLES */
18:09:33 <esolangs> [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156948&oldid=155228 * Dhzb * (+48) /* Computational class */
18:11:02 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156949&oldid=156948 * Dhzb * (+4) /* Computational class */
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18:13:39 <ais523> b_jonas: mlatu appears to have all Underload's commands as builtins, but also to support custom pattern matches
18:13:53 <ais523> mlatu-6 is Underload with a different evaluation order
18:13:59 <ais523> (ignoring S in both cases)
18:16:01 <ais523> <wib_jonas> The reason why this is fun is that determining the ranking is as hard as solving the graph isomorphism problem. ← graph isomorphism (as opposed to subgraph isomorphism) isn't NP-complete, is it?
18:19:01 <ais523> interestingly mlatu picked the same concatenation order as Underload did – both orders are useful and I mentally treat ~* as a single combinator when programming Underload
18:19:11 <ais523> i.e. (a)(b)* = (ab) and (a)(b)~* = (ba)
18:23:59 <b_jonas> ais523: graph isomorphism probably isn't NP-complete. we don't know a polynomial time algorithm for it, but some people conjecture that there is such an algorithm.
18:24:31 <ais523> ah, OK, and this is a different "probably" from "P probably ≠ NP"
18:26:13 <b_jonas> ais523: there's also http://tunes.org/~iepos/joy.html which starts from the six underload primitives plus two more primitives that you can define from them, namely cons which would be ~a~* in underload, and dip which would be ~a*^ in underload, https://esolangs.org/wiki/Mlatu-6#Kerby_Combinators gives these translations in Mlatu notation
18:28:32 <b_jonas> ais523: as far as I can see, there's a common core which is Underload without the S command; Underload is this core plus the S command plus the evaluation order defined well enough that S prints in a meaningful order; mlatu is this core plus the user-defined replacement rules that can match only sequences of symbols; Mlatu-6 is this core language but with a different evaluation order; and
18:28:39 <b_jonas> http://tunes.org/~iepos/joy.html is this core plus lambda abstraction, which is interesting because I hadn't even realized that you can put lambda abstraction into this;
18:29:45 <ais523> Joy predates Underload, I think (although I don't think I personally learned about it until after creating Underload)
18:29:57 <b_jonas> yes, that article is dated 2002
18:30:11 <ais523> oh, you can definitely do lambda abstraction semantically in Underload, just not syntactically
18:30:34 <ais523> a lot of my Underload programs are mentally compiled from lambda calculus
18:30:50 <b_jonas> also I think https://esolangs.org/wiki/GML has the parenthesis and lambda abstraction from Joy, and you can define the Underload primitives from those
18:32:04 <b_jonas> yes, but these are more general than lambda calculus because an Underload expression can push or pop a variable number of items from the stack
18:32:18 <b_jonas> though on the other hand lambda calculus guarantees that you won't run into stack underflow
18:32:55 <b_jonas> and what surprised me is that you can extend the more general language with lambda abstractions, even though in retrospect I should perhaps have known it because of the GML subset
18:33:06 <ais523> many Underload programs are implemented in a strict lambda-calculus-like sort of way where the number of stack elements consumed is static, but some aren't
18:34:14 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156950&oldid=156597 * Hotcrystal0 * (+113)
18:34:25 <b_jonas> oh, and GML is from 2000, though this idea of concatenative calculus is likely even older than that
18:34:44 <ais523> although, a while ago I was talking about a stack representation in lambda calculus in which the stack takes a function as argument, and applies it that function to the top element, its return value to the second element, that's return value to the third element, and so on
18:34:59 <ais523> that reminds me quite a lot of the Underload stack
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18:35:44 <ais523> s/it that function/that function/
18:36:22 <b_jonas> anyway, we should document this on the wiki because there are theorems that the Mlatu-6 page or the Joy article mentions but the Underload page doesn't and vice versa. in particular http://tunes.org/~iepos/joy.html#sk gives multiple different small bases
18:37:48 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156951&oldid=156950 * Hotcrystal0 * (+250) why do I keep on [[f]]orgetting to sign the page
18:38:42 <ais523> b_jonas: cons is weird, I don't think I've ever needed ~a~* in Underload
18:38:54 <ais523> but dip is very useful, I mentally abbreviate ~a*^ to _
18:39:02 <b_jonas> and the Underload page mentions that you can write swap from the other primitives, whereas the other pages don't seem to mention this -- http://tunes.org/~iepos/joy.html#swap eliminates swap but only because it uses dip and cons instead, and it's not obvious why you can write those with just the other five underload primitives
18:39:32 <ais523> it isn't obvious to me either, even though I worked one of the swap implementations by myself
18:39:45 <ais523> both oerjan and I made attempts at golfing it
18:51:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mlatu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156952&oldid=156933 * B jonas * (+231)
18:53:48 <b_jonas> ais523: https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Underload&diff=prev&oldid=31122 contains ~a~*
18:57:28 <korvo> b_jonas: Maybe it's time for me to somehow unwind https://esolangs.org/wiki/Cammy/Bikeshed into a more useful page. [[Concatenative language]] is a start, and so is [[concatenative calculus]].
18:58:37 <korvo> I do *not* know whether Kerby or Von Thun knew of each other's work. Von Thun is no longer able to do mathematics or communicate, and nothing in their writings includes Kerby, so I'd guess that they were independent.
18:59:51 <korvo> ...Maybe we need a dedicated page for Kerby's combinators.
19:04:08 <b_jonas> I get no credit here, it's all sodium hydroxide
19:04:08 <b_jonas> Now with patented pain spots where you probably splashed yourself!
19:04:08 <b_jonas> Honestly in a regulatory sense this stuff should come with vinegar
19:04:23 <b_jonas> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Concatenative_calculus
19:04:31 <b_jonas> korvo: ^ that's the page for Kerby's combinators
19:10:17 <korvo> b_jonas: I guess. It's certainly a page that is focused on Kerby's combinators.
19:13:32 <b_jonas> as for the lambda abstractions, in GML /x x does nothing, so what the Joy article writes as \x ... x ... you have to rewrite as /x ... x apply ... into GML, because apply is the Underload ^ operator. and in the other direction, GML's /x ... x ... you'd have to rewrite to \x ... [x] ...
19:14:11 <b_jonas> no sorry, the Joy lambda puts the backslash after the variable name
19:15:31 <b_jonas> so Joy x\ ... x ... is equivalent to GML /x ... x apply ..., while GML /x ... x ... would rewrite to x\ ... [x] ...
19:58:20 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156953&oldid=156855 * Zhil * (-459) Fixed sap being incorrect
20:00:27 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156954&oldid=156953 * Zhil * (+8)
20:02:25 <esolangs> [[Arbitrary memory emulation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156955&oldid=156943 * Aadenboy * (-31) better definition
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20:32:59 <korvo> b_jonas: I think you're right, yeah. The lambda-abstracted combinators are tricky for me and I try not to use them. I prefer the category that treats x\x as identity, and Kerby's `i` combinator does that just fine.
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22:11:52 <esolangs> [[VirtualGameCard]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156956 * PurplrIsSus1985 * (+1467) Created page with "'''VirtualGameCard''' (also known as '''VGC''') is an esoteric programming language based on the Nintendo Switch's Virtual Game Cards. == Overview == In VGC, each cell takes the form of a game card, and each array is a Nintendo Switch. The commands are:
22:21:23 <esolangs> [[VirtualGameCard]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156957&oldid=156956 * PurplrIsSus1985 * (+108)
22:26:27 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156958&oldid=156105 * PurplrIsSus1985 * (+23)
22:35:09 <esolangs> [[Nope.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156959&oldid=152614 * PurplrIsSus1985 * (+210)
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22:46:11 <esolangs> [[Zephyr ASDL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156960&oldid=140769 * Corbin * (+22) Influenced Zaddy.
22:51:18 <esolangs> [[Zephyr ASDL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156961&oldid=156960 * Corbin * (+156) Use standard reference formatting.
23:25:40 <esolangs> [[Zephyr ASDL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156962&oldid=156961 * Stkptr * (+6)
23:36:39 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mlatu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156963&oldid=156952 * B jonas * (+388)