00:17:45 -!- hkgit03 has changed nick to laerling. 00:19:27 -!- nitrix has joined. 01:11:02 -!- amby has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:35:53 [[User:Cycwin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157413&oldid=154388 * Cycwin * (+101) 03:09:07 -!- nitrix has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:42:43 -!- user3456 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:56:29 -!- user3456 has joined. 04:06:30 -!- nitrix has joined. 04:19:01 -!- user3456 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:27:55 -!- user3456 has joined. 06:20:38 [[Burnlike]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157414 * Truttle1 * (+5834) Made a Burnlike Page 06:20:57 [[User:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157415&oldid=82042 * Truttle1 * (+15) 06:22:13 [[Burnlike]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157416&oldid=157414 * Truttle1 * (-3471) 06:23:02 [[Burnlike]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157417&oldid=157416 * Truttle1 * (+3465) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/157416|157416]] by [[Special:Contributions/Truttle1|Truttle1]] ([[User talk:Truttle1|talk]]) 06:27:34 [[User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157418&oldid=156530 * I am islptng * (-344) xdi8 is completely unrelated to esolang 06:46:23 is there a programming language (imagine a variant of rust) that tries to follow what combinations of values boolean local variables (or the discriminants of enums) can have when they're used in conditionals to determine what combinations of code paths are possible, not just for optimization, but to determine what programs are valid? eg. you're using a variable that looks like it might be initialized, 06:46:29 but you use it in a conditional that implies that a certain boolean is true, and that boolean can only become true if you passed through a code path that initializes that variable, so using that variable is allowed. of course this gets more interesting when it has to follow the combination of many flags through some complicated function with many loops and conditionals. 06:47:01 of course you may need some sort of cut-off for this so the compilation time doesn't need to be exponential in the code size. 06:47:29 I guess some of the computer-checked proof languages must do this. 07:11:32 -!- razetime has joined. 07:39:38 Hi 07:50:15 -!- razetime has quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.). 08:08:34 -!- Guest7732 has changed nick to Koen_. 08:08:38 -!- Koen_ has changed nick to Ae. 08:15:49 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:40:51 b_jonas: I like that idea but don't know of one 08:42:15 of course you can kind-of trick the optimiser into trying to do that in most AOT-compiled languages, and it may be possible to get a compile error out of it using failing link-time asserts that will be optimised out if the program is correct 09:22:29 ais523: oh yeah, there was an old behavior in gcc that may have been a bug. Back then, the old C standard said that any integral typed *constant expression* with value zero could be implicitly converted to a null pointer of any type. But gcc considered something like (x - x) where x is an integer non-constant as a constant expression with value zero, so it allowed you to cast (x - x) to a null pointer. 09:22:35 I think you could abuse this in some funny way but I don't quite remember how. Later gcc fixed this, and also some later C or C++ standard changed the rule that only a *literal* with integer zero value can be implicitly converted to a null pointer of any type. 09:23:35 I think this was a bug only in C++ where you can detect if that implicit conversion is possible without an error if the conversion isn't possible, using function overloading. 09:24:05 In C it was just what the gcc manual calls "your bug might be just our reasonable extension" or something like that 09:26:14 These days with constexpr and consteval and template parameters and C variable sized arrays, gcc cares enough to track exactly which expressions count as constant expressions for the purpose of the language standard, so it won't have this kind of bug so easily just because the optimizer proves something constant. 09:28:23 (and thus Rust's value generic parameters and all of zig was born) 09:51:22 -!- tromp has joined. 09:53:48 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:38:17 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Pifrited * New user account 10:44:35 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157419&oldid=157307 * Pifrited * (+128) 10:44:51 [[User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157420&oldid=157418 * Pifrited * (+51) 11:16:17 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 11:36:08 -!- tromp has joined. 11:55:31 -!- amby has joined. 11:57:12 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 12:02:07 -!- amby has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:02:12 -!- ajal has joined. 12:31:38 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:07:25 -!- tromp has joined. 13:47:50 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:07:07 -!- ajal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:07:17 -!- amby has joined. 14:20:47 b_jonas: The phrase to search for is "flow-sensitive typing", or just "flow typing". RPython does this, for example; when I try to translate a program, sometimes the toolchain will tell me that an impossible value was reached or that a string slice wasn't proven non-negative. 14:22:12 like, `stop = length - CONST; slice = s[start:stop]` might fail to translate because the variable `stop` could be less than zero. 14:22:52 So I must write `stop = length - CONST; assert stop >= 0, "cauliflower"; slice = s[start:stop]`. This is convincing. 14:23:31 Similarly RPython won't allow dereferencing an abstract superclass, but it will let me access subclass variables and methods as long as I've proven it somehow. 14:23:53 `obj.myMethod()` maybe not okay, but `if isinstance(obj, MyClass): obj.myMethod()` works fine. 14:23:56 obj.myMethod()`? No such file or directory 14:27:13 -!- lynndotpy6 has quit (Quit: bye bye). 14:28:22 -!- lynndotpy6 has joined. 14:40:52 -!- tromp has joined. 15:33:18 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:34:45 -!- amby has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 15:35:17 -!- amby has joined. 15:48:13 [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157421&oldid=157300 * Zhil * (+26) 15:54:50 korvo: I see 16:00:18 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:12:30 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:15:35 -!- tromp has joined. 16:35:39 -!- razetime has joined. 17:04:28 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:30:47 [[User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157422&oldid=157420 * Aadenboy * (+0) formatting 17:34:58 I find the representation of the JPEG format kind of annoying. It seems to be trying to merge two goals that are somewhat contradictory: that the JPEG writer can write the file in one pass without seeking even if it doesn't have much RAM, and that the reader can skip ahead and decode just parts of it. Because of this, the Huffman-compressed data, which should be most of the JPEG file, is encoded such 17:35:04 that any 0xFF bytes have to be escaped, because 0xFF is an escape byte. So there are no length fields that let the reader skip ahead, instead to seek ahead you have to scan all the bytes to find 0xFF bytes, though you don't have to decode the Huffman data. The Huffmanized data format admittedly does have some bias that makes long strings of one-bits less common, but since it's a bit-aligned variable 17:35:10 format, it can still appear. 17:36:51 The original version of the format was designed in 1992, and it shows. There's a later replacement JPEG2000 that's much more capable in what it can represent, though I don't know how it represents them at bytes so I don't know if it has these contradictory goals. But very few programs actually adapted JPEG2000, and now it's basically dead because Webp got adapted as the new compressed image format 17:36:57 instead. 17:39:38 I mean it makes sense that if nobody adopted JPEG2000 for 25 years then instead of adopting it later you design a newer file format that is hopefully better. 17:44:03 Hmm aren't you forgetting JPEG XL? 17:44:36 (status: killed by Google, at least as far as the WWW is concerned) 17:45:38 [[Foldy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157423&oldid=155300 * Squareroot12621 * (+8) Example programs are now === level 3 === instead of == level 2 == 17:45:52 I don't know what JPEG XL is 17:46:39 https://www.phoronix.com/news/Chrome-Dropping-JPEG-XL-Reasons 17:47:52 (More about the "killed by Google" aspect than about what it is... it compresses better than webp though.) 17:48:37 "compresses better" isn't the only aspect that you have to evaluate 17:48:46 at the same quality 17:52:39 hmm, has anyone made a esolangs compressed image format yet? it sounds like someone in esolangs is bound to make one eventually. tom7 wrote that he wants to develop a video compression, but that's not ready yet. 17:53:05 the ICFP one? 17:53:38 wait... I dimly recall something, where was that? 17:53:52 2007, Morph Endo 17:54:31 oh... I guess you could consider it a compressed image format, but it's kind of terrible 17:55:01 but it is very esoteric 17:55:24 I was thinking of something that's more practical than that but is still related to the community 17:55:48 -!- tromp has joined. 17:55:49 wasn't there one in IOCCC? 17:57:05 yep, Fabrice Bellard of course, ioccc/2018/bellard 17:58:24 [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157424&oldid=152492 * Hotcrystal0 * (+338) /* Baba Is You pack */ new section 18:02:29 https://bellard.org/bpg/ is the full non-IOCCC version of it 18:03:09 and https://bellard.org/ioccc_lena/ is the info page of the IOCCC version 18:21:23 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:32:12 [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157425&oldid=157424 * Aadenboy * (+324) 19:01:50 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed). 19:02:10 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:22:32 [[Flowchart]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157426 * Aadenboy * (+3070) Created page with "Flowchart is an esolang created by [[User:Aadenboy]] directly based on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowchart flowcharts]. == Structure == Flowchart works on a 2D space, with actions connected by lines. Programs start on the first ( ) node, of which i 19:23:33 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157427&oldid=157370 * Aadenboy * (+16) /* F */ add [[Flowchart]] 19:24:56 [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157428&oldid=156947 * Aadenboy * (+69) /* my own esolangs */ add [[Flowchart]] 19:31:36 cu 19:32:42 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:29:10 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:53:14 [[User:RainbowDash]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157429&oldid=157047 * RainbowDash * (+4693) New page hooray! I think i might be over doing it though. Gotta see how this looks might revert 21:53:26 [[User:RainbowDash]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157430&oldid=157429 * RainbowDash * (+1) 21:54:10 [[User:RainbowDash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157431&oldid=157430 * RainbowDash * (+2) 21:55:17 [[User:RainbowDash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157432&oldid=157431 * RainbowDash * (-5) 22:01:26 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157433&oldid=157427 * Buckets * (+11) 22:01:27 [[File talk:Ldpl-logo.png]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157434 * RainbowDash * (+108) Created page with "cute little guy --~~~~" 22:01:48 [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157435&oldid=157407 * Buckets * (+10) 22:02:01 [[Aivr]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157436 * Buckets * (+2310) Created page with "Aivr(, or AIVR, Which stands for Advanced Interactive Voice Responce) is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2020. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | Say [] || From within the Square brackets, It will Speak it. |- | {} || F 22:09:09 [[Flow]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157437 * Helpeesl * (+4958) Created page with "==Intro== Flow is an esolang created by [[User:helpeesl]] on 5/10/2025 ==Commands== The commands can be in many forms those being: *Two input forwards *Two input backwards *Two input neutral *One input forwards *One input backwards *One input neutral *Refrences *Others [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157438&oldid=157235 * Helpeesl * (+28) 22:14:03 [[Flow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157439&oldid=157437 * Helpeesl * (+15) Forgot about this 22:17:14 [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157440&oldid=157438 * Helpeesl * (+56) 22:25:27 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:42:18 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:46:27 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 22:48:18 [[Category:Arch-based]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157441 * Helpeesl * (+22) Created page with "[[Category:Languages]]" 22:49:07 [[Category:Arch-based]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157442&oldid=157441 * Helpeesl * (+52) 22:49:55 [[Char]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157443&oldid=64658 * Helpeesl * (+24) 22:50:48 [[Doug]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157444&oldid=64567 * Helpeesl * (+24) 22:51:32 [[An arch is simply a curve.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157445&oldid=74182 * Helpeesl * (+24) 22:52:22 [[Force of Arch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157446&oldid=96902 * Helpeesl * (+23) 22:55:56 [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157447&oldid=157440 * Helpeesl * (+27) Ill keep on adding the good stuff you forgot to give a category or removed 23:02:41 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:03:29 `obj.myMethod()` maybe not okay, but `if isinstance(obj, MyClass): obj.myMethod()` works fine. ← I vaguely remember Java special-casing "if … instanceof …" like that when in checked mode (it doesn't treat it as a type system violation if you later use an unchecked cast) 23:04:26 although I think there's an instanceof-alike that converts the type of an object reference to a derived class or returns null if it isn't of that type, making it possible to do an "if let" equivalent and avoiding the flow typing that way 23:06:04 hmm, has anyone made a esolangs compressed image format yet? ← https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/69930/paint-starry-night-objectively-in-1kb-of-code has a few 23:15:01 hehe, ok 23:15:46 "converts the type of an object reference to a derived class or returns null if it isn't of that type" => that's C++ dynamic_cast 23:18:23 -!- j4cbo has quit (*.net *.split). 23:18:23 -!- ManDeJan has quit (*.net *.split). 23:18:24 -!- ursa-major has quit (*.net *.split). 23:18:25 -!- V has quit (*.net *.split). 23:24:35 -!- j4cbo has joined. 23:24:35 -!- ManDeJan has joined. 23:24:35 -!- ursa-major has joined. 23:24:35 -!- V has joined. 23:26:51 b_jonas: it makes sense – I think Rust might have something similar in Any, but it's kind-of rare to use Any in practice because it doesn't do what people normally want it to do 23:36:09 [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157448&oldid=157447 * Helpeesl * (+20) They forgot a couple 23:37:04 Those do not seem to be good (or discussed) categories. :/ 23:38:56 [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:Arch-based]]": unapproved category this isn't an established enough data structure to need its own category and would be better as a list on the Arch page 23:39:06 [[Category:HQ9+ derivatives]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157449 * Helpeesl * (+51) Created page with "This contains a list of all derivatives of [[HQ9+]]" 23:40:32 [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:Sus]]": unapproved category: even if this is a useful enough set of languages to be worth categorising (but that needs discussion on [[Esolang talk:Categorization]]), the name is inappropriate 23:42:03 [[HQ9-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157450&oldid=148330 * Helpeesl * (+29) 23:42:22 [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157451&oldid=157448 * Ais523 * (-131) please do not add categories to this page without discussion at least one clearly shouldn't exist, at least one but probably two are misnamed, and you added inappropriate commentary to the page in the process (the visible text on pages should not contain reference 23:44:32 [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157452&oldid=157237 * Ais523 * (+477) /* Making Category:Accumulator-based official */ reasonable but misnamed, and maybe the wrong set of languages 23:45:58 [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157453&oldid=157452 * Ais523 * (+377) /* Making Category:Accumulator-based official */ mention the counter-based languages proposal 23:51:33 [[FHC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157454&oldid=118844 * Helpeesl * (+29) 23:52:28 [[Category:HQ9+ derivative]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157455 * Helpeesl * (+54) Created page with "This is a list containing all [[HQ9+]] based languages" 23:54:25 [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:HQ9+ derivative]]": unapproved category 23:54:59 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Helpeesl * moved [[Category:HQ9+ derivatives]] to [[Category:]]: Ingas 23:55:17 [[Category:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157458&oldid=157456 * Helpeesl * (-51) Blanked the page 23:55:54 [[Category:HQ9+ derivatives]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157459&oldid=157457 * Helpeesl * (+12) Changed redirect target from [[Category:]] to [[Category:HQ9+ derivative]] 23:56:54 [[Category:HQ9+ derivative]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157460 * Helpeesl * (+50) Created page with "This page contains all languages based on [[HQ9+]]" 23:57:05 [[User talk:Helpeesl]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157461 * Ais523 * (+880) please stop creating categories without approval 23:57:39 [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:]]": unapproved (and implausibly named) category 23:57:48 [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:HQ9+ derivatives]]": unapproved category 23:57:53 [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:HQ9+ derivative]]": unapproved category 23:59:43 [[User talk:Pifrited]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157462 * I am islptng * (+772) Created page with "I wonder where's your C in the username. Shouldn't it be "Pifricted" instead of "Pifrited"? BTW Do you want a signature like mine? I can get one for you. --~~~~"