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01:44:18 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157987&oldid=157979 * I am islptng * (-13)
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05:23:34 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157988 * Undalevein * (+14794) Added Timeline language, still working on it but I only saving progress.
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05:53:37 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157989&oldid=157988 * Undalevein * (-273) Finished working on the Language Overview (for now)
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06:00:36 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157990&oldid=157989 * Undalevein * (+530) Added example programs.
06:04:25 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157991&oldid=157990 * Undalevein * (+10) Changed Unknown Usability to Unknown Computational Class
06:06:04 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157992&oldid=157991 * Undalevein * (+53) Changed quotations to <code>
06:06:57 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157993&oldid=157992 * Undalevein * (+0) Not being careful with typos, sorry.
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06:34:45 <esolangs> [[User:Undalevein]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157994 * Undalevein * (+135) Added a small bio.
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08:58:12 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157995&oldid=157480 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+863)
09:12:10 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157996&oldid=157995 * I am islptng * (+76) /* Commands */
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10:25:56 <esolangs> [[Talk:Semistack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157997 * I am islptng * (+677) Created page with "Another [[SLet (Old 3)|Slet 3]] Derivative??? Interesting. --~~~~"
11:18:23 <gry> APic: may i ask how are you
11:18:30 <gry> what you doing here
11:19:01 <gry> i wanna figure out what you working on. i code in perl and a bit js
11:21:15 * APic just breakfasts a Butter-Brezn
11:21:22 <APic> No active Projects currently
11:24:49 <gry> hm, what you special in?
11:31:45 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157998&oldid=157993 * Undalevein * (-2) Changed the Hello, World program to work in the latest update.
11:32:42 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157999&oldid=157998 * Undalevein * (-11) Fixed weird grammar/contextual issue.
11:32:42 * APic can code in C, C++, x86/x64/ARM-Assembly, Perl, Python, Java and JavaScript
11:32:53 <APic> And some BrainFuck
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11:41:29 <gry> do you know of some platfirm for byte sized content
11:41:33 <gry> like duolingo
11:41:44 <gry> but where i can add my own "course"
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12:52:17 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158000&oldid=157895 * Hotcrystal0 * (+479)
12:53:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158001&oldid=158000 * Hotcrystal0 * (-163)
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13:02:43 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158002&oldid=157996 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
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13:16:19 <wib_jonas> there's something I don't understand about inter-thread mutex interfaces. so we have all these multithreading library interfaces, including Posix threads, C++11 threads, C11 threads, rust std::sync.
13:16:24 <wib_jonas> they each have their own mutex and once_flag implementations that are incompatible with other libraries but have similar semantics for inter-thread synchronization. what I find weird is how the mutex and once_flag are created and destroyed.
13:16:29 <wib_jonas> the linux implementation of posix threads has the easiest to use interface. both mutexes and once_flags are just pure memory, they can be initialized by a C constant initializer, and you can just forget about either of them without calling a destructor without leaking any resuorce.
13:16:33 <wib_jonas> this makes sense, because you can effectively implement these with an atomic flag and a linked list of nodes that the waiters allocate on the stack.
13:16:38 <wib_jonas> in the contented case, the waiter blocks a signal, atomically pushes itself to the wake-up list by adding its thread-id, verifies that the lock flag is still set, then sigwaits for the signal, then atomically checks-and-sets the flag, then atomically pops himself from the wake-up list.
13:17:03 <wib_jonas> when the thread that was holding the mutex unlocks, it atomically clears the flag then pthread_kills the first thread in the wake-up list.
13:17:07 <wib_jonas> or something like that, maybe I got the sequence a bit wrong here.
13:17:11 <wib_jonas> the C11, C++, Rust interfaces are a bit less general: they all give you a constructor and destructor function for mutexes, so a mutex can hold resources like operating system handles. this makes sense, they want to be general so they can be implemented on any system.
13:17:14 <wib_jonas> the posix threads interface as POSIX defines it also gives you a constructor and destructor function. but it also says that instead of calling the constructor, you can just use a static initializer.
13:17:37 <wib_jonas> further, https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man3/pthread_mutex_destroy.3p.html has the weird statement "Attempting to initialize an already initialized mutex results in undefined behavior".
13:17:40 <wib_jonas> what kind of implementation would ever need such a strong guarantee that you aren't allowed to leak a mutex and overwrite the memory containing the structure even if you promise never to use it again?
13:17:44 <wib_jonas> but the weirdest part is the once_flag. neither the posix threads pthread_once_t and C11 once_flag type have no destructors, and both can be statically initialized.
13:17:47 <wib_jonas> but the weirdest part is the once_flag. neither the posix threads pthread_once_t and C11 once_flag type have no destructors, and both can be statically initialized.
13:17:50 <wib_jonas> how come mutexes can leak resources if you don't destroy them, but once_flag can somehow be implemented such that it doesn't hold any resources?
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13:32:16 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158003&oldid=157674 * Cycwin * (+89) /* uhhhhhhhhhhhhh */ new section
14:01:52 <wib_jonas> in the context of a memory tracker that tries to run your program in a slower way where it tracks every memory allocation and free that you do and tries to find where you dereference a stray pointer or where you are accessing a library type that is supposed to be opaque in a way that the library interface doesn't expose for it. if you have a type
14:01:52 <wib_jonas> like the linux pthreads interface's mutex which normally doesn't need a destructor because it doesn't hold anything outside the structure, but the safety checked version does need to be destroyed or else it leaks resources, that can be annoying.
14:09:26 <wib_jonas> for a type that does have a destructor, there's no problem: if the debugged program leaks one without calling the destructor, it would already leak at least memory, so it's fine if the safety checker leaks more resources to track it.
14:19:03 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158004&oldid=158001 * Hotcrystal0 * (-316)
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14:33:18 <esolangs> [[UserEdited/Versions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158005&oldid=156250 * Hotcrystal0 * (+46)
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15:38:16 <wib_jonas> Windows 11 file explorer claims that the size of a file is "1,01,903 KB", and if I open the properties popup then it says that the file size is more precisely "99.5 MB (10,43,47,972 bytes)". Is this a normal way to place commas in some locales, or is there something weird going on here?
15:48:41 <wib_jonas> it looks like it is a thing in some locales. but I hadn't realized that this computer was set up that way.
15:56:22 <int-e> > (104347872 / 2^10, 104347872 / 2^20) -- rounded up, rounded down?
15:56:36 <int-e> wib_jonas: that looks quite atrocious
15:57:50 <wib_jonas> I had thought the digit grouping separators were always at multiples of some distance (usually 3 or 4) away from the decimal point. but apparently computer people find the weirdest format that is ever used in real life and build it into the locale and timezones systems.
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16:40:04 <fizzie> That's the "Indian style", isn't it?
16:43:36 <fizzie> Makes the commas match with the local languages having words for 100,000 and 10,000,000 (and apparently higher quantities with more factors of 10² too).
16:55:59 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158006&oldid=157999 * Undalevein * (+26) Fixed contextual issues and changed the symbol order
16:56:32 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158007&oldid=158006 * Undalevein * (+5) Fixed bio link
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17:22:46 <int-e> Fun to see g++ outperform clang++ by a factor of 3 (on a particular tight number-crunching loop).
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18:07:52 <int-e> woah something has gone seriously wrong with clang's register allocation in this case: https://paste.rs/ca13U.txt (top: clang++, bottom: g++ ...this is the hot part of the code though that may not be obvious to the compiler)
18:09:55 <int-e> Hmm hmm. I guess one thing that makes this code bigger and increases register pressure is that it unrolled the loop.
18:15:30 <int-e> No, I don't think so. GCC just did better strength reduction, so one of the multiplication is now an addition (leaq).
18:18:33 <int-e> Oh, no, not the leaq; it's the addq %rbp, %r8. Sorry for the monolog, will move on now :-)
18:24:02 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158008&oldid=157986 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+52)
18:31:34 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158009&oldid=158008 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+400)
18:34:19 <int-e> Well, if I do that transformation manually, clang++ and g++ produce code of virtually equal speed.
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18:41:57 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158010&oldid=158009 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+634)
18:51:18 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158011&oldid=158010 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+434) /* Expressions */
18:51:45 <zzo38> If making a better programming language than C, I think that I would avoid the confusing syntax for types that C has, I would avoid Unicode, I would avoid using "0" alone as the prefix for octal numbers ("0o" would be better), I would avoid confusions with the syntax such as "/*" for comments even though "/" followed by "*" would be meaningful, and I would avoid some of the more modern stuff in other programming languages that I think
18:52:41 <zzo38> However, I would also think to add things, such as customizing the linking in a more elaborate way, which is something that C doesn't do and I think most others also don't do. Being able to specify that a variable has the same address as another variable also can sometimes be useful.
18:53:15 <b_jonas> if an esoteric programming language has two variants and one of them is a wimpmode then what would you call the other?
18:55:30 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158012&oldid=158011 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+66) /* Expressions */
18:56:25 <zzo38> Maybe you will call it "not-wimpmode", but maybe there will be a better name
18:57:08 <int-e> Hrm. I think I messed up that speed test. clang++ is still slow on this code. It did get rid of the extra imul though.
18:58:26 <int-e> zzo38: maybe you'd like Rust ;-)
18:59:47 <zzo38> Rust uses Unicode and I think also does not have a "goto" command like C (someone told me that the goto command in Rust is only usable for case blocks; C doesn't have this and I think it would be useful to have both uses of goto)
19:00:17 <int-e> well, you wanted something better than C ;-)
19:01:35 <int-e> I do think Rust's type syntax is pretty neat. Except maybe for function types.
19:02:05 <zzo38> In my opinion, most of the programming languages that they try to make better than C have various problems (and some of the things they add into new versions of C are also not so good, although some (such as the #embed command) are good)
19:02:16 <int-e> OTOH, Go's type syntax looks terrible.
19:02:27 <int-e> C's may be objectively bad but I'm used to it. ;-)
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19:18:52 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158013&oldid=158007 * Undalevein * (+63) Added Truth Machine Example
19:19:15 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158014&oldid=158013 * Undalevein * (+2) Fixed header type
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19:22:00 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158015&oldid=158014 * Undalevein * (+2) Header revisions
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19:54:56 <fizzie> Hey, what's wrong with Go's types?
19:55:04 <fizzie> (I guess I might just have gotten used to them.)
19:58:54 <b_jonas> yeah, I'm also used to C's type syntax so I try to write f32[8] instead of [f32;8] for the array type in rust. the actual rust syntax just isn't in my finger yet.
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20:18:25 <zzo38> I made up a ASN1_IDENTIFIED_DATA type but I don't know if that is really a good name or if a better name should be used instead. One use of this type is to identify the format and meaning of a DER file if used at top level (although it can also be used in other levels), but has other uses too.
20:19:28 <zzo38> It starts with a set of object identifiers, object descriptors, and/or sequences that start with a object identifier, and these identify the format (if there is more than one, any one of them (other than object descriptors) can be used; this way, a subset or special case of a file format can be identified). The second item is any value of any type.
20:21:05 <zzo38> (There is also an optional third item.)
20:21:18 <zzo38> Do you think there should be a different better name for such a thing?
20:35:29 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158016&oldid=157315 * Undalevein * (+27) Added Vyxal Example
20:57:00 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158017 * Helpeesl * (+331) Created page with "User programmed is an esolang experiment created on May 19th 2025 by [[user:helpeesl]] where you give this page a program and what it does, and Ill try to make a working esolang that does all programs correctly. == Programs == == What I think the commands are =
20:58:06 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158018&oldid=157935 * TheCatFromGithub * (+73) new feature
20:58:38 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158019&oldid=158018 * TheCatFromGithub * (+0) needs to be there
21:04:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158020&oldid=158003 * Ractangle * (+173) /* uhhhhhhhhhhhhh */
21:07:47 <esolangs> [[Postrado]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158021&oldid=154467 * Ractangle * (-20) /* With functions */
21:11:22 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158022&oldid=158020 * Aadenboy * (+411) /* uhhhhhhhhhhhhh */
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21:29:19 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158023&oldid=158017 * Hotcrystal0 * (+334)
21:29:40 <esolangs> [[Filename "xxx" doesn't seem to be a valid filename. Please check if the filename your trying to execute is written correctly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158024&oldid=156111 * Ractangle * (-163) /* See also */
21:29:50 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158025&oldid=158023 * Hotcrystal0 * (+20)
21:30:16 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158026&oldid=155010 * Ractangle * (-10) /* Stuff to continue */
21:30:49 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158027&oldid=158025 * Hotcrystal0 * (-63)
21:32:13 <esolangs> [[Talk:User programmed]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158028 * Hotcrystal0 * (+298) Created page with "This first program should be an easy one to guess. ~~~~"
21:32:28 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158029&oldid=157693 * Ractangle * (+213) /* Movie */
21:34:09 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158030&oldid=158019 * TheCatFromGithub * (+98)
21:34:33 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158031&oldid=158027 * Helpeesl * (+140)
21:36:06 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158032&oldid=158031 * Hotcrystal0 * (+89)
21:36:15 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158033&oldid=158032 * Hotcrystal0 * (+248)
21:36:49 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158034&oldid=158033 * Hotcrystal0 * (+16)
21:37:27 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158035&oldid=158034 * Hotcrystal0 * (+67)
21:38:43 <esolangs> [[Template:Wip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158036&oldid=140647 * Ractangle * (-3) Redirected page to [[Template:WIP]]
21:39:18 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158037&oldid=158035 * Hotcrystal0 * (+114)
21:39:32 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158038&oldid=158037 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
21:47:17 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158039&oldid=158038 * Helpeesl * (+69)
21:52:58 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158040&oldid=158039 * Hotcrystal0 * (+100)
21:54:31 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158041&oldid=158040 * Hotcrystal0 * (-303)
21:56:33 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158042&oldid=158041 * Hotcrystal0 * (+6)
21:56:54 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158043&oldid=158042 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1)
21:57:03 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158044&oldid=158043 * Hotcrystal0 * (+7)
21:59:25 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158045&oldid=158044 * Helpeesl * (+199)
22:00:52 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158046&oldid=158045 * Hotcrystal0 * (+73)
22:01:07 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158047&oldid=158046 * Hotcrystal0 * (-2)
22:02:14 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158048&oldid=158047 * Hotcrystal0 * (+41)
22:02:50 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158049&oldid=158048 * Helpeesl * (+110)
22:03:33 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158050&oldid=158049 * Helpeesl * (+29)
22:08:26 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158051&oldid=158050 * Hotcrystal0 * (+58)
22:12:23 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158052&oldid=158051 * Helpeesl * (+143) /* 8th (alright Im probably not going to end anytime soon) */ error found
22:12:57 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158053&oldid=158052 * Helpeesl * (+5)
22:15:05 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158054&oldid=158053 * Hotcrystal0 * (+274)
22:15:26 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158055&oldid=158054 * Hotcrystal0 * (+20)
22:15:43 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158056&oldid=158055 * Hotcrystal0 * (-20)
22:17:19 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158057&oldid=158056 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1)
22:21:57 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158058&oldid=158057 * Helpeesl * (-32)
22:25:36 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158059&oldid=158058 * Hotcrystal0 * (+8)
22:29:58 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158060&oldid=158059 * Helpeesl * (+182)
22:35:19 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158061&oldid=158060 * Helpeesl * (+40)
22:37:48 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158062&oldid=158061 * Helpeesl * (+12)
22:39:16 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158063&oldid=158062 * Hotcrystal0 * (+122)
22:51:33 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158064&oldid=157976 * Buckets * (+12)
22:52:08 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158065&oldid=157952 * Buckets * (+11)
22:52:38 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158066&oldid=158063 * Helpeesl * (+374)
22:53:23 <esolangs> [[Nymal]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158067 * Buckets * (+3149) Created page with "Nymal is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2022. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | #"" || Push number to The top Stack. |- | "" || Push String to The top Stack. |- | < || Push Input to The top Stack as a String. |- | >
22:54:05 <esolangs> [[Nymal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158068&oldid=158067 * Buckets * (+17)
23:03:13 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:18:13 -!- molson has joined.
23:22:19 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158069&oldid=158066 * Hotcrystal0 * (+138) Reorganizing the commands part + 15-17
23:22:49 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158070&oldid=158069 * Hotcrystal0 * (+3)
23:24:05 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158071&oldid=158004 * Hotcrystal0 * (+184)
23:24:44 <esolangs> [[User Programmed]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158072 * Hotcrystal0 * (+29) Redirected page to [[User programmed]]
23:33:08 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement).
23:35:55 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158073&oldid=158070 * Helpeesl * (+212)
23:50:06 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158074&oldid=158073 * Hotcrystal0 * (+175)
23:51:04 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158075&oldid=158074 * Hotcrystal0 * (-133)
23:51:18 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158076&oldid=158075 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1)
23:56:12 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158077&oldid=158076 * Hotcrystal0 * (+107)
23:58:10 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158078&oldid=158077 * Helpeesl * (+184)
23:59:29 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158079&oldid=158016 * Undalevein * (+90) Added a more golfed version for the Python Code (I just had to)