< 1748477268 878366 :citrons!~citrons@alt.mondecitronne.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1748477383 101652 :oren!~oren@ec2-44-201-23-133.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN #esolangs oren :Oren Watson
< 1748477504 854414 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1748477579 145853 :citrons!~citrons@alt.mondecitronne.com JOIN #esolangs citrons :citrons
< 1748477595 846205 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1748478141 151018 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
> 1748479317 326331 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Steve's Lava Chicken Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158595&oldid=158570 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+42) 10
> 1748479624 432659 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MATE14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158596 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+1275) 10Created page with "::''This is [[PAL]] version 2.0 .'' '''MATE''', which stands for "'''M'''ATE: '''A'''rray-processing '''T'''ree '''E'''valuator", will be made by islptng. {{WIP}} == Data types == * '''Number''': A rational. * '''Character''': Literally just a character. * '''List'
> 1748479672 640766 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PAL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158597&oldid=155491 5* 03I am islptng 5* (-9) 10No longer a WIP because I give up.
< 1748480226 692710 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement
< 1748481949 635640 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1748482293 937862 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1748488057 91483 :molson_!~molson@2001:48f8:7040::1593 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1748493739 353981 :slavfox!~slavfox@193.28.84.183 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1748493805 264856 :slavfox!~slavfox@193.28.84.183 JOIN #esolangs slavfox :slavfox
< 1748494613 93545 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1748494623 893827 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1748494706 251119 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life
> 1748495468 46630 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Where is my esolang?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158598&oldid=158566 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+36) 10
< 1748497720 321550 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had mentioned before about capability-based systems, and whether or not testing equality of capabilities should be allowed (and what ones should be considered as equal).
< 1748497778 541741 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :However, for the way I had thought of network transparency, I think that it may be necessary to be able to test equality of capabilities (even if two different sources give it to you), since the network protocol will need to be able to assign a temporary identifier to these capabilities, and doing it without might make it inefficient.
< 1748497823 320894 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :However, with proxy capabilities, you can still always force a capability to be unequal, and if you have nothing else to compare it to, you still cannot verify it, and the inability to verify it in this way is, in my opinion, a helpful security feature.
< 1748497869 131858 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :In addition, for some things where "identification capabilities" would be helpful, this equality of capabilities also is useful.
< 1748497893 386775 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Although it may be possible to do this without, it might be too inefficient to do.)
< 1748499164 446084 :GregorR!~GregorR@71.19.155.102 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1748499241 337856 :GregorR!~GregorR@71.19.155.102 JOIN #esolangs GregorR :Gregor Richards
< 1748500035 442363 :GregorR3!~GregorR@71.19.155.102 JOIN #esolangs GregorR :Gregor Richards
< 1748500134 218471 :GregorR!~GregorR@71.19.155.102 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1748500134 474318 :GregorR3!~GregorR@71.19.155.102 NICK :GregorR
< 1748504258 712305 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1748505236 874325 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1748509923 276539 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SBFC14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158599 5* 03L4.m2 5* (+526) 10Created page with "SBFC(Shifted Brainfuck Compressed) is a compressed version of [[Shifted brainfuck]]. Three instructions result 343 possible combinations. If +-, -+, <>, ><, [], ][ and .. are not allow
< 1748511149 100756 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1748511781 553080 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1748514068 676194 :X-Scale!~NorthStar@60.70.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :NorthStar
< 1748514862 818867 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1748517315 167760 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi *
> 1748517957 97884 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158600&oldid=158556 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+498) 10
> 1748518217 548781 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Polydeuces14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158601 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+5766) 10Created page with "{{AKA|title=}} {{AKA|title=Brainfuck 2.1}} Polydeuces is a programming language designed by PSTF. It have only one dialect, Castor. = Inspiration of the name of this language and dialect = In Greek mythology, Polydeuces, along with his twin brother Castor, b
> 1748518343 748415 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158602&oldid=158587 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+17) 10
< 1748518586 449058 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1748519302 893402 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/PSTF Again14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158603 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+7886) 10Created page with "What the [[Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso_Again|fck]]!!!!!! 1. Take the s***. It's time to share, to share i..."
< 1748519657 525272 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1748519952 537186 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso Again14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158604&oldid=158581 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+51) 10
> 1748521022 387611 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/PSTF Again14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158605&oldid=158603 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+39) 10
> 1748521981 670600 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso Again+14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158606 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+10357) 10Created page with "What the [[Translated SLet/3/PSTF_Again|fck]]!!!!!! 1. Take the ****. G Oude Oufu Wusi..."
> 1748522218 690290 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158607&oldid=158600 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+479) 10
> 1748522244 798743 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158608&oldid=158607 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+15) 10
> 1748522276 481461 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158609&oldid=158608 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-8) 10
> 1748522285 613440 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158610&oldid=158609 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+1) 10
> 1748522299 589057 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158611&oldid=158610 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+10) 10
> 1748522321 247083 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158612&oldid=158611 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-9) 10
> 1748522333 496643 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158613&oldid=158612 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+6) 10
> 1748522393 636824 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158614&oldid=158613 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-491) 10
< 1748522451 396323 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1748522707 37752 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158615&oldid=158614 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+95) 10
> 1748522794 589688 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158616&oldid=158615 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+7) 10
> 1748522924 849500 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158617&oldid=158616 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+3) 10
> 1748523169 259890 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158618&oldid=158617 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+1) 10
> 1748523476 458105 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158619&oldid=158618 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+8) 10 is different from because does not gain any powers from crossing the river.
> 1748523509 411540 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158620&oldid=158619 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+0) 10
> 1748523584 335436 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158621&oldid=158620 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+0) 10
> 1748523656 769180 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158622&oldid=158621 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-5) 10
> 1748524487 10799 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:WhatLang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158623&oldid=158519 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+8) 10/* About whatlang with only symbols is tc */
> 1748524519 118752 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158624&oldid=158547 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+4) 10
> 1748524533 160125 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158625&oldid=157805 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-79) 10
> 1748524548 32609 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158626&oldid=158625 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-90) 10
> 1748524644 875057 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Transformation is complete14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158627&oldid=158441 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-125) 10
> 1748524678 308169 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158628&oldid=158624 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+21) 10/* Users */
< 1748524754 367328 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
> 1748525067 341816 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Atemlanguage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158629&oldid=156756 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+640) 10
> 1748525131 11673 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158630&oldid=158628 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-13) 10/* Other stuff */
> 1748525145 285787 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158631&oldid=158630 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+21) 10/* Concepts */
> 1748525194 552990 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158632&oldid=158549 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+111) 10/* Any interests on joining our Esolang Tencent QQ group? */
> 1748525298 203080 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158633 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+1844) 10Created page with "[[Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso Again+|Huh?]] 1. Take the shit. Het Oufu Asian Efuwule Drinking wine e, Het Oufu Asian Efuwule Drinking wine e, CE Het Oufu Asia's First Alphabet Practical Health e Wuanii Wuaiiteenig "Jumuo e - Wuani
> 1748525467 921772 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158634&oldid=158633 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+184) 10
> 1748525499 25242 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso Again+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158635&oldid=158606 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+38) 10
> 1748525509 963010 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso Again+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158636&oldid=158635 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-3) 10
> 1748525519 285616 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158637&oldid=158634 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-1) 10
> 1748525577 580086 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158638&oldid=158637 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+12) 10
> 1748525687 756347 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158639&oldid=158638 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+152) 10
> 1748525711 911014 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158640&oldid=158639 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+3) 10
> 1748525808 625813 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158641&oldid=158640 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+83) 10
> 1748525833 293236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158642&oldid=158641 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+0) 10
> 1748525906 223197 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158643&oldid=158642 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+14) 10
> 1748525955 495485 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158644&oldid=158643 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-4) 10
> 1748526156 794538 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158645&oldid=158644 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+193) 10
> 1748526222 775078 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158646&oldid=158645 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+89) 10
> 1748526288 66742 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158647&oldid=158646 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+108) 10
> 1748526309 899811 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07``abi2 hB8 7Vi 7iY14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158648&oldid=158594 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+47) 10
> 1748526330 227109 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158649&oldid=158647 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+23) 10
> 1748526381 413424 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158650&oldid=158649 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+2) 10
> 1748526455 933708 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158651&oldid=158650 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+4) 10
> 1748526555 869329 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158652&oldid=158227 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+162) 10/* 1000000001 */
> 1748526651 97346 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158653&oldid=158651 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+218) 10
> 1748526679 566675 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158654&oldid=158653 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-1) 10
> 1748526851 223623 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158655&oldid=158654 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+14) 10
> 1748526904 429402 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158656&oldid=158655 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+17) 10
> 1748527858 79401 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158657&oldid=158656 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+347) 10
< 1748528044 864940 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1748528463 692757 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
> 1748529544 285207 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158658&oldid=158622 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+101) 10
> 1748530475 645451 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Atemlanguage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158659&oldid=158629 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-26) 10/* New introduction */
< 1748530730 704369 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1748531834 997165 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1748531904 657187 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Atemlanguage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158660&oldid=158659 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-127) 10/* New introduction */
< 1748531964 971100 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1748533140 433648 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158661&oldid=132572 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-3) 10
> 1748533276 350975 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158662&oldid=139071 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-3) 10
< 1748534381 177033 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1748534962 339692 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Efghij14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158663&oldid=131571 5* 03BakersDozenBagels 5* (+587) 10Update language spec with new features used by PRINGLES
< 1748535662 227205 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1748535733 874130 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
> 1748535998 924996 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158664&oldid=158657 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+1) 10
> 1748536016 326817 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158665&oldid=158664 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-1) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/158664|158664]] by [[Special:Contributions/Hotcrystal0|Hotcrystal0]] ([[User talk:Hotcrystal0|talk]])
> 1748536275 346451 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03NomaniInt64 5* 10New user account
> 1748536595 80706 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158666&oldid=158542 5* 03NomaniInt64 5* (+233) 10/* Introductions */
> 1748536720 331830 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158667&oldid=158658 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+39) 10
< 1748538442 838081 :molson!~molson@2001:48f8:7040::1593 JOIN #esolangs molson :realname
> 1748538499 183521 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158668&oldid=158665 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+3) 10
> 1748538770 914709 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Zaddy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158669&oldid=158576 5* 03Corbin 5* (+209) 10/* Constraint Handling Rules */ Add reference. Also, turns out max/3 is best done as a query with gte/2 as a "builtin" Prolog rule.
< 1748539185 688362 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1748540806 102557 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1748540905 397715 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158670&oldid=158668 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+13) 10
> 1748541223 260024 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158671&oldid=158670 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-354) 10
> 1748541256 843150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158672&oldid=158671 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+605) 10
> 1748541328 151351 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158673&oldid=158672 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+0) 10
< 1748543439 887060 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1748543975 556403 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1748544368 241411 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1748546911 897484 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ArtState14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158674&oldid=119841 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-3) 10
> 1748547014 60623 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bfos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158675&oldid=113885 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+19) 10Is it a concept or idea?
< 1748547272 186837 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38
> 1748548755 774650 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Aadenboy 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:SmolderNodes101.png10]]": The connection graph of [[Smolder]] cells that can be reached from 101.
> 1748548775 830176 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Aadenboy 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:SmolderNodes202.png10]]": The connection graph of [[Smolder]] cells that can be reached from 202.
> 1748548906 547821 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Smolder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158678&oldid=158217 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+468) 10really interesting revelation
> 1748548987 379728 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 03Aadenboy 5* 10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:SmolderNodes101.png10]]": more compact labels
< 1748549020 129552 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
> 1748549341 576946 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07VTS14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158680 5* 03JORE 5* (+5372) 10Created page with "== VTS Programming Language == '''VTS''' is a modification of python. It also makes code harder to read. {| class="wikitable" |+ Command Set |- ! VTS !! Python !! Description |- | n >> x || x=n || Assignment |- | n *> x || x=x*n 1748549919 8228 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158681&oldid=158379 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+9) 10
< 1748550077 718412 :chloetax!~chloe@user/chloetax QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1748550102 441802 :chloetax!~chloe@user/chloetax JOIN #esolangs chloetax :chloe
< 1748550308 210027 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Raoof
< 1748550562 1376 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi everybody. I think I found something. first a quick question: is the following function primitive recursive ?
< 1748550566 18632 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :pri3 = (f,n,a,b,c) => n?pri3(f,n-1n,a,b,f(a,b,c)):c
< 1748550715 461329 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :is n-1n a typo for n-1? anyway, no, even assuming that n,a,b,c are natural numbers, because f is an argument that we know nothing about.
< 1748550801 862600 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e 1n means a BigInt in javascript. assume that f is primitive recursive
> 1748550855 742184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158682&oldid=158681 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+6) 10/* ye olde sandbox (ald sand-plega-dm) */
< 1748550966 415993 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Raoof: Then yes, at the face of it at least. Using JS probably opens up some backdoors.
< 1748550986 997536 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is n a natural number?
< 1748551022 908978 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so this is like n iterations of the function (c -> f(a,b,c)) nested started from c?
< 1748551067 224854 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas yes n, a, b,c are natural numbers. yes
< 1748551258 624972 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`'
< 1748551261 259715 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :558) But wait what if I'm using a quantum computer <-- there is "quantum entropy". it's the same except no one understands it.
< 1748551347 569059 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e if pri3 is primitive recursive then hyperoperation function is also primitive recursive
< 1748551508 870698 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, no.
< 1748551514 107590 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
< 1748551519 959545 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :pri3 itself is *not* primitive recursve
< 1748551537 47866 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :pri3(f) is, if f is
< 1748551580 388011 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(for pri3(f) to make sense, assume you had written pri3 = (f) => (n,a,b,c) => ... instead)
< 1748551803 660410 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e is pri3 total ?
< 1748551819 848242 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :with the restriction on f? yes
< 1748551842 437947 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname
< 1748551847 734041 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but f isn't a natural number
< 1748551887 914701 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :cu
< 1748551928 840744 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: Yes, 15
< 1748551934 940727 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :ACTION &
< 1748551962 566140 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :APic: really, all you ever say is hi and cu but *this* is what you intend to engage with :-P
< 1748551979 329098 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/intend/decide/
< 1748551995 946478 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :minor brain malfunction here
< 1748552049 423743 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e we need a look up table for f to be a natural number
< 1748552076 502392 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fsvo "we"
< 1748552113 504146 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, int-e is right, running an arbitrary primitive recursive function that you get form input is more powerful than what a primitive recursive function can do
< 1748552657 720846 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess most computational classes aren't able to self-interpret – TC is unusual in that respect
< 1748552687 448306 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, can LBAs self-interpret? (assuming that the input to the interpreter is an input + program)
< 1748552701 398820 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, no, because the LBA being interpreted might need a constant factor higher than the interpreter has
< 1748552737 600858 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think any specific factor of LBA might be able to, though?
< 1748552764 133202 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas let me show you what I discovered. my guess is that the following four functions are a basis for total computable functions are I use subset of javascript to implement my language
< 1748552776 91095 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah you get a weird fixed-parameter class of incomplete self-interpreters
< 1748552780 450619 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :one = (a) => 1n
< 1748552780 937341 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :inc = (a) => (a||0n)+1n
< 1748552781 441574 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :dec = (a) => a>0n?(a||0n)-1n:0n
< 1748552781 936945 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :pri = (f,n,...args) => n?pri(f,n-1n,...args.slice(0,args.length-1),f(...args)):args[args.length-1]
< 1748552782 796259 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can do that for primitive recursion too
< 1748553270 146601 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh no, it's that discussion from way back
< 1748553325 516748 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas this time is different. I think I discovered something cool this time :)
< 1748553371 210005 :Raoof3!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Raoof
< 1748553553 231168 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :You're using JS for this; I imagine it's very easy to accidentally compose these primitives in a way that results in a function that's not primitive recursive because JS has full recursion built in.
< 1748553582 226321 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1748553632 210051 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Raoof
< 1748553821 53321 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry I have some issues with my internet connection. my point is you can compose 4 total functions and get all other total computable functions. isn't that cool ?
< 1748553846 227694 :Raoof3!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1748554152 917487 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Raoof: int-e already pointed out the problem. you have a function pri that calls a function that it gets as argument. if you can pass any function into it then you can easily build a y-combinator construction and get an infine loop, something like function y(a,b,c) { return a(b); }; pri(y,1,y,0,0)
< 1748554290 805522 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so there's just no guarantee that pri is total
< 1748554351 931489 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Right, abusing the supposedly natural number arguments (n and all of ...args) to pass in functions will do the trick too.
< 1748554380 783984 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the other problem is of course that you still aren't giving us a specific definition of what you're allowed to compose how
< 1748554401 53699 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I'm tired trying to deal with a moving goalpost when you do that
< 1748554615 99602 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry, I thought it is simple enough to be easy to fill the blanks. let me give you a list of functions that I defined using these 4 functions maybe that helps if not I will come up with a blog post or something in the future.
< 1748554639 726406 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zero = (a) => dec(one(a))
< 1748554640 225732 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :add = (a,b) => pri(inc,a,b)
< 1748554640 726406 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :mul = (a,b) => pri(add,a,b,zero(a))
< 1748554641 225741 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :pow = (a,b) => pri(mul,b,a,one(a))
< 1748554641 726274 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :tsb = (a,b) => pri(dec,b,a)
< 1748554655 335442 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not = (a) => pow(zero(a),mul(a,a))
< 1748554655 835525 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :two = (a) => inc(one(a))
< 1748554656 336164 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :three = (a) => inc(two(a))
< 1748554656 836387 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :isZero = (a) => not(a)
< 1748554657 336416 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :isNonZero = (a) => isZero(isZero(a))
< 1748554657 835513 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and = (a,b) => isZero(add(isZero(a),isZero(b)))
< 1748554658 336195 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or = (a,b) => isZero(mul(a,b))
< 1748554658 835708 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :eq = (a,b) => isZero(add(tsb(a,b),tsb(b,a)))
< 1748554659 335100 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :notEq = (a,b) => not(eq(a,b))
< 1748554659 836096 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :If = (a,b,c) => add(mul(isNonZero(a),b),mul(isZero(a),c))
< 1748554660 335438 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lte = (a,b) => isZero(tsb(a,b))
< 1748554660 835429 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lt = (a,b) => If(eq(a,b),zero(a),lte(a,b))
< 1748554661 335480 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :gt = (a,b) => not(lte(a,b))
< 1748554661 836375 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :gte = (a,b) => not(lt(a,b))
< 1748554662 335355 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :min = (a,b) => If(lt(a,b),a,b)
< 1748554662 835915 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :max = (a,b) => If(lt(a,b),b,a)
< 1748554690 893659 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hyp = (n,a,b) =>
< 1748554691 393772 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs : (eq(n,zero(a)))?inc(b):
< 1748554691 950155 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs : (and(eq(n,one(a)),eq(b,zero(a))))?a:
< 1748554692 394017 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs : (and(eq(n,two(a)),eq(b,zero(a))))?zero(a):
< 1748554692 893822 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs : (and(gt(n,two(a)),eq(b,zero(a))))?one(a):
< 1748554693 394120 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs : pri(hyp,one(a),dec(n),a,pri(hyp,one(a),n,a,dec(b)))
< 1748554693 894069 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ack = (m,n) => m?tsb(hyp(m,two(n),add(n,three(n))),three(n)):inc(n)
< 1748554700 966049 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :...
< 1748554712 415340 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, hyp uses full recursion; you lose
< 1748554776 190446 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :in the pri(f) construction, f must be a previously defined primitive recursive function.
< 1748554798 91612 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :this "previously defined" part is usually left out because this is how inductive definitions always work
< 1748554902 234638 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e yes f must be previosuly defined. I don't get what you mean by "you lose", can you write a function that loops ? (I know I haven't clearly specified the grammar of this language )
< 1748554941 751329 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Raoof: `hyp` uses pri(hyp,...) inside its own definition. That's not allowed.
< 1748554967 855255 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e why ?
< 1748554974 909897 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it has not been previously defined
< 1748554981 591516 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you're defining it right there
< 1748555008 375490 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e it is a self-referential definition
< 1748555014 821625 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is not allowed
< 1748555023 621122 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that would be arbitrary recursion
< 1748555048 660395 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's not an arbitrary recursion
< 1748555065 119592 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well it'
< 1748555076 633599 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well the thing that matters is that it's not primitive recursion
< 1748555150 178069 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't get why that matters. maybe ais523 can help us here ?
< 1748555157 570241 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The rules are like this; when defining hyp, you can only use functions defined up to the point when you define hyp. That is, zero, add, mul, etc, up to max. But not hyp itself.
< 1748555177 253728 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, but you can get a loop even without a function directly referring to itself, I mentioned y = (a,b,c) => a(b); pri(y,1,y,0,0); above.
< 1748555179 300522 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :This really is not a difficult rule, and you're violating it.
< 1748555223 815548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: because you're smart and have found another loophole (passing a function where only natural numbers are allowed)
< 1748555267 104879 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: what, where does it say that only natural numbers are allowed?
< 1748555283 286162 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess one way to think about it is that, if you're trying to implement primitive recursion in particular, you have to obey the rules of primitive recursion – and although it's totally fine to write a programming system which doesn't follow those rules, you end up with a different computational class
< 1748555300 976836 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I mentioned it when you posted that `y` example the first time.
< 1748555321 965007 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: The *reference* I'm using isn't this discussion; it's the standard defintion of primitive recursion.
< 1748555327 364753 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: ah I see
< 1748555369 290572 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Because it's clear from the outset that if Raoof is obtaining arbitrary recursive functions, what they're doing must differ from the standard definition somewhere.
< 1748555428 576739 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523 what is the computational class of the compositions of these 4 functions ?
< 1748555456 420239 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Raoof: I still think you haven't told us how you're allowed to compose these
< 1748555463 517279 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like what expressions you're allowing
< 1748555474 937136 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Raoof: the question isn't well-defined, especially as the functions take more than one argument
< 1748555500 482429 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :functions with multiple arguments? that's your excuse? hehehe
< 1748555532 891187 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: the composition of f and g is function(x) { return f(g(x)); }
< 1748555544 63700 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but that definition doesn't obviously generalise to multiple arguments
< 1748555550 937904 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(unless you also have multiple return values)
< 1748555579 943686 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although I don't think Raoof meant composition in the mathematical sense, it's still an undefined problem without knowing what sense it was meant in
< 1748555591 100250 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, so you're also asking what expressions Raoul wants to allow.
< 1748555606 682155 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1748555617 684488 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, apart from the typoed nickname
< 1748555668 410865 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have a simpler goal; I'm just chasing the "whatever this is, it's not primitive recursion" point.
< 1748555723 406104 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1748555776 212356 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: so I think the problem here is that if person A believes "X can't do Y" and person B believes they have disproved it with "Z is an argument that X can do Y", that although person A can state "because X can't do Y, Z must be wrong" this argument will not be convincing to person B, even if it's correct
< 1748555777 209094 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Raoof
< 1748555839 951850 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Well I did pinpoint the place where Raoof's construction deviated from primitive recursion.
< 1748555887 923754 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I tried to explain... not sure whether I managed because there is no good reason other than that the definition doesn't work that way.
< 1748556264 63981 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :primitive recursion is much easier to understand if you view it as iteration, IMO
< 1748556323 559747 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Are we doing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlooP_and_FlooP now?
< 1748556334 958702 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: do you mean for loop iterations with mutable variables that you can write repeatedly in a loop, as in the (0) language?
< 1748556336 596278 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(what a horrible syntax, I mean SYNTAX)
< 1748556359 436708 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I was thinking along the lines of BLooP
< 1748556359 525362 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: is (0)'s syntax saner?
< 1748556371 431432 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: do I dare to look?
< 1748556391 620429 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, it's probably not a good question
< 1748556399 522047 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think anyone cares about (0)'s concrete syntax
< 1748556424 558864 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523 these 3+1 functions are analogous to instruction for a Register machine
< 1748556501 340885 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and there are parts of the syntax that I'm not even sure how they work but it doesn't really matter
< 1748556503 782920 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*instructions
< 1748556541 644873 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: that sounds like a good property for an esolang to have
< 1748556576 343475 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I feel like INTERCAL aims to evoke it
< 1748556586 634222 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1748556602 91459 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: as far as I understand Bloop also has mutable variables; the main difference is that (0) has user-defined functions and local variables for them, which matters because of how (1) is defined as a modification of (0)
< 1748556641 209542 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Raoof
< 1748556655 63337 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(INTERCAL-72 intentionally doesn't have operator precedence – C-INTERCAL and CLC-INTERCAL both have something that exists in that space that triggers if you write an expression with insufficient spark/ears, but is hard to understand and doesn't behave like traditional operator precedence)
< 1748556686 208663 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :primitive recursive languages based on iteration can't allow you to modify the loop counter (unless doing so doesn't change or reduces the number of loop iterations)
< 1748556686 330765 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: kind of, but INTERCAL also comes with some esotericness in its concrete syntax, especially in how a comment ends with DO or PLEASE anywhere in it
< 1748556730 346922 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :INTERCAL doesn't have comments, it just has a) syntax errors that don't happen until runtime and b) a range of ways to prevent a statement executing even if it's in the path of execution
< 1748556746 397802 :Raoof!~Raoof@2a01:5ec0:9818:f564:2979:e386:a0c6:b236 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1748556752 702268 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the way statements are delimited is very esoteric and not fully understodo
< 1748556783 393393 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the usual rule is "they start with DO or PLEASE" but there are exceptions which I don't fully understand and probably aren't consistent between compilers
< 1748556811 323449 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in particular the command READ OUT can be spelled without whitespace but despite READOUT having "DO" in the middle it doesn't usually start a new statement
< 1748556848 763877 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think C-INTERCAL doesn't lex DO inside READOUT in much the same way that C doesn't lex > inside >>
< 1748556900 450047 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hah, imagine READONTUT
< 1748556907 238584 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yes, the post that defines (0) covers that, the loop counter variable is essentially just a copy of the hidden loop counter that's incremented in every iteration, so you can modify it but that won't make the loop run more times
< 1748556911 796323 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: DON'T has an apostrophe in
< 1748556926 144026 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(which is comparable to writing a keyword in C that contains a parenthesis)
< 1748556939 683096 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: ah, I see
< 1748556948 948156 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: READ OUT => I see
< 1748556962 132859 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I forgot how INTERCAL does this.
< 1748556983 900764 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I also kind of wanted to spell it as READONUT
< 1748556987 563472 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :PLEASEN'T is also acceptable as a synonym I think (although INTERCAL compilers have generally collectively agreed to never use it)
< 1748557022 730796 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, INTERCAL programmers, not compilers
< 1748557030 275230 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :er, REAPLEASEUT
< 1748557031 232708 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da2:ba0:a157:afb4 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1748557183 343927 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :at least one person has interpreted INTERCAL's spec as whitespace being completely irrelevant, so you can put it even inside keywords, literals, etc.
< 1748557254 737733 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :IIRC two things that the writeup about (0) doesn't define is the order of evaluation when there are multiple function calls that don't depend on each other's result, and if your implementation makes the order variable you could sneak in additional power there; and what happens if you try to break a loop in a lower stack frame
< 1748557281 571620 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :INTERCAL-72 is known to allow '. to be written as ! (i.e. superimposing the two adjacent characters) which is a form of whitespace change, I guess
< 1748557289 556592 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I also interpreted INTERCAL as whitespace being irrelevant so you can even put space inside keywords
< 1748557291 243639 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`unicode U+1F430
< 1748557293 881295 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :🐰
< 1748557309 168260 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`unidecode 🐰
< 1748557311 647339 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :[U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE] [U+1F430 RABBIT FACE]
< 1748557353 665639 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the original manual mentioned superimposing " and . into a rabbit face, but there was no way to encode it until Unicode added one
< 1748557489 243536 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(also noteworthy: BMI2 adding hardware support for INTERCAL's select operator to x86 and x86-64; C-INTERCAL, of course, detects this in the configure script rather than using cpuid at runtime like you're supposed to)
> 1748558756 876394 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158683&oldid=158602 5* 03Buckets 5* (+14) 10
> 1748558883 147349 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158684&oldid=158537 5* 03Buckets 5* (+99) 10
> 1748558895 761608 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Imitate14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158685 5* 03Buckets 5* (+3338) 10Created page with "Imitate is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2019, 2021 and 2022, All very Different from each other, Sharing the Same Name. == Imitate (2019) == On December 29th, 2019, [[User:Buckets]] Created the First Instance of Imitate, for the Purp
> 1748558927 811153 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Imitate14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158686&oldid=158685 5* 03Buckets 5* (+36) 10
> 1748559012 78929 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158687&oldid=158684 5* 03Buckets 5* (+30) 10
< 1748559629 663763 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :That isn't the rabbit of INTERCAL though; it is the rabbit face emoji, which is difference
< 1748559760 848053 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :There is a way to encode the INTERCAL one though, but not in Unicode. It can be encoded in ASCII by using a backspace in between, or if another character set is made up, which can support it better.
< 1748559808 971264 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also, I think the use of DO that will end comment might be, that a program Knuth wrote mentions a 5-bit teleprinter code, which I think means Baudot code but they did not call it that because of the use of DO in INTERCAL.
< 1748559910 256163 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: I think these are supposed to be on 12-column punch cards, and you overlay two characters by punching them into the same column
< 1748559938 322852 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the program that is
< 1748560005 749359 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which means you may need to read it with a card reader that can encode those specific overlayed characters to EBCDIC in a way that doesn't conflict with other characters used in INTERCAL
< 1748560123 65776 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Then it can be encoded using punch card codes, is another way (and, would probably be the "proper" way, if it was designed for such a thing). If a way to use a card reader to encode them in EBCDIC in a way that does not conflict with the other characters, that will help with using with computers with 8-bit bytes like most computers do now.
< 1748560747 82387 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Although, I think CLC-INTERCAL already has its own variant of EBCDIC anyways (which uses ASCII control codes rather than EBCDIC control codes)
< 1748560757 158115 :X-Scale!~NorthStar@60.70.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1748561061 169097 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how do control codes come up? they shouldn't occur in an intercal program
< 1748561120 549397 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Carriage return and line feed can occur, I think
< 1748561264 81697 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in the original INTERCAL-72 carriage return wasn't possible, space was represented by literally changing which columns you punched out, and "newline" was a change from one punch card to then ext
< 1748561375 929767 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, for the INTERCAL-72 character set you would be correct, but CLC-INTERCAL character set has carriage return and line feed control codes.
< 1748561814 244606 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, the cards are fixed 80 character length, so you read them to a fixed width record format file, there's no line feeds or carraige returns,
< 1748562000 3624 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :space exists, but I don't think it counts as a control character.