from random import randint import os.path import sys  # GLOBAL VARIABLES grid = [] x = 0 # X COORDINATE OF POINTER y = 0 # Y COORDINATE OF POINTER direction = "right" # CURRENT DIRECTION OF MOTION st
> 1746622681 16725 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BooleanFunge/Interpreter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157244&oldid=157243 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+21) 10
> 1746622791 215871 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BooleanFunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157245&oldid=156766 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+101) 10
> 1746622832 934426 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BooleanFunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157246&oldid=157245 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-3) 10/* Truth machine ("if ascii code of input is even" version; with stack clogging) */
> 1746622990 660668 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157247&oldid=157233 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+140) 10/* My esolangs */
> 1746623050 736041 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157248&oldid=157247 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-10) 10/* My esolangs */
> 1746623077 34941 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07;;;*++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157249&oldid=157240 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+7) 10
> 1746623184 957658 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreterion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157250&oldid=157239 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-12) 10/* Execution */
> 1746623210 831244 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreterion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157251&oldid=157250 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-63) 10/* Implementation notes */
> 1746623315 850750 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreterion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157252&oldid=157251 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+2) 10/* Execution */
> 1746623361 10711 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreterion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157253&oldid=157252 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-2) 10/* Syntax */
> 1746623736 935639 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PAC-PI14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157254 5* 03LillyHStClaire 5* (+3275) 10Created PAC-PI page
> 1746623831 287034 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157255&oldid=157218 5* 03LillyHStClaire 5* (+13) 10added PAC-PI to the list
> 1746625352 762531 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stactal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157256&oldid=157189 5* 03 5* (+231) 10
> 1746625620 524736 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!/*14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157257&oldid=155979 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+1218) 10
> 1746625646 76280 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mlatu-614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157258&oldid=157168 5* 03Zhil 5* (+585) 10
> 1746625652 261759 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!/*14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157259&oldid=157257 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+15) 10
> 1746625716 379685 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157260&oldid=157248 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+34) 10/* My esolangs */
> 1746625751 798756 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07;;;*++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157261&oldid=157249 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+16) 10
> 1746625756 254042 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PAC-PI14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157262&oldid=157254 5* 03LillyHStClaire 5* (-8) 10Remove unnecessary NOP from NOT algorithm
> 1746627037 241066 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PAC-PI14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157263&oldid=157262 5* 03LillyHStClaire 5* (+70) 10added EX register
> 1746627232 157034 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PAC-PI14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157264&oldid=157263 5* 03LillyHStClaire 5* (+9) 10Made OT readonly
> 1746627291 410513 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PAC-PI14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157265&oldid=157264 5* 03LillyHStClaire 5* (+1) 10made OT writeonly =.=
> 1746627654 150475 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PAC-PI14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157266&oldid=157265 5* 03LillyHStClaire 5* (+10) 10simple clarification
> 1746628141 275382 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157267&oldid=152898 5* 03 5* (+16) 10/* My esolangs */
> 1746628161 653923 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I/M Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157268&oldid=156759 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+739) 10
> 1746628241 544852 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PkmnQ/Hypercomputable implementations14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157269&oldid=157172 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+1218) 10Add [[Try to Take]] (and change first codeblock to use 
 tags)
> 1746628389 772035 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:I/M Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157270&oldid=157242 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+75) 10sign
> 1746628397 982567 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mlatu-614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157271&oldid=157258 5* 03Zhil 5* (+1) 10
> 1746628414 284785 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PkmnQ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157272&oldid=154482 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+102) 10Add [[User:PkmnQ/Hypercomputable implementations]]
> 1746628419 575197 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I/M Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157273&oldid=157268 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+15) 10
> 1746628436 9093 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I/M Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157274&oldid=157273 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-12) 10/* Implementation */
< 1746629023 995511 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:d43:3b62:1503:cb84 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1746629497 620168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Unrandom14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157275&oldid=156594 5* 03Krolkrol 5* (-79) 10
< 1746630031 935540 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:d43:3b62:1503:cb84 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1746631572 472785 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Iterate14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157276&oldid=157226 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+594) 10/* computation without $# */
> 1746631731 997615 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PAC-PI14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157277&oldid=157266 5* 03LillyHStClaire 5* (+16) 10Add nop's back in, miscounted
< 1746633156 221020 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:ec68:4c33:1dc7:d036 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
> 1746634819 506699 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PAC-PI14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157278&oldid=157277 5* 03LillyHStClaire 5* (+437) 10Add categories, link to implementation, and other minor changes.
> 1746634912 94059 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PAC-PI14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157279&oldid=157278 5* 03LillyHStClaire 5* (+0) 10fix capitalization of Category:Self-modifying
> 1746634941 673037 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PAC-PI14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157280&oldid=157279 5* 03LillyHStClaire 5* (+16) 10Add overview header
> 1746635236 506153 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:I am islptng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157281&oldid=156767 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+302) 10/* PrySigneToFry */ new section
< 1746635742 209133 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:ec68:4c33:1dc7:d036 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1746637012 866592 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Iterate14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157282&oldid=156903 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+232) 10/* Syntax */ maybe clearer language
< 1746637152 976777 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:d43:3b62:1503:cb84 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1746638469 863503 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stactal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157283&oldid=157256 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-27) 10Removing user talk and un-hiding user
< 1746638831 845338 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:d43:3b62:1503:cb84 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1746638858 709044 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:I/M Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157284&oldid=157270 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+151) 10/* Periodic program decider */
> 1746639091 233807 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I/M Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157285&oldid=157274 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+120) 10
> 1746639112 96186 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I/M Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157286&oldid=157285 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+0) 10/* Computational class */
> 1746639176 142442 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157287&oldid=155133 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+680) 10
> 1746639215 901833 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I/M Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157288&oldid=157286 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+71) 10/* Relationship to InterpretMe */
> 1746639308 847584 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I/M Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157289&oldid=157288 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+17) 10/* Implementation */
> 1746639370 660403 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I/M Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157290&oldid=157289 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+0) 10/* Implementation */
> 1746639465 342394 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I/M Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157291&oldid=157290 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+46) 10/* Implementation */
> 1746639665 921542 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157292&oldid=157260 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+28) 10/* My esolangs */
> 1746639942 111648 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BooleanFunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157293&oldid=157246 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+229) 10
> 1746639961 620732 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BooleanFunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157294&oldid=157293 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-1) 10
> 1746639980 500382 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BooleanFunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157295&oldid=157294 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+1) 10
< 1746640504 220366 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:ec68:4c33:1dc7:d036 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
> 1746641727 53255 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07;;;*++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157296&oldid=157261 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+875) 10
> 1746641762 712028 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mlatu-614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157297&oldid=157271 5* 03Zhil 5* (-5) 10
> 1746642295 972448 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mlatu-614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157298&oldid=157297 5* 03Zhil 5* (-231) 10Cleaned up language around weak reduction
> 1746642321 570999 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mlatu-614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157299&oldid=157298 5* 03Zhil 5* (-7) 10
> 1746642368 640533 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mlatu-614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157300&oldid=157299 5* 03Zhil 5* (-48) 10
> 1746642405 94113 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07;;;*++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157301&oldid=157296 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-2) 10
> 1746642439 236893 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07;;;*++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157302&oldid=157301 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+30) 10
> 1746642462 784875 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157303&oldid=157292 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+13) 10
< 1746643805 482109 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:ec68:4c33:1dc7:d036 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1746644649 256919 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157304&oldid=157303 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+8) 10/* My esolangs */
> 1746644731 434124 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ARLPLWAAWN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157305&oldid=157208 5* 03Dgt2016 5* (-2193) 10
> 1746645164 857662 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I/M Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157306&oldid=157291 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+137) 10/* Infinite I/M Machine */
< 1746645246 875290 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1746646030 852419 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Lucaz37 5*  10New user account
< 1746646208 299322 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :cu
> 1746646310 286891 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157307&oldid=157195 5* 03Lucaz37 5* (+144) 10
< 1746646933 232504 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38
< 1746648439 838363 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname
< 1746651362 990811 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:d43:3b62:1503:cb84 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1746651853 779591 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:d43:3b62:1503:cb84 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1746652081 225239 :Trigon!~Trigon@c-24-11-80-95.hsd1.ut.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1746652204 427839 :Trigon!~Trigon@c-24-11-80-95.hsd1.ut.comcast.net JOIN #esolangs * :https://codetriangle.me
< 1746652499 148789 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1746652562 414068 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38
> 1746652589 792507 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157308&oldid=157255 5* 03Buckets 5* (+19) 10
> 1746652621 588448 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157309&oldid=157200 5* 03Buckets 5* (+18) 10
> 1746652639 890239 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Copy of a...14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157310 5* 03Buckets 5* (+2663) 10Created page with ": ''The title of this article is not correct because of technical limitations. The correct title is actually infinity long and Cannot be perceived by Humanity And by Machine. '' For ease of use, This article and Everything else is going to go Use the wrong Name and
> 1746652783 941431 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esorn14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157311&oldid=155747 5* 03Buckets 5* (+0) 10
> 1746652837 992555 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:I am islptng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157312&oldid=157281 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+742) 10/* PrySigneToFry */
> 1746653001 636526 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157313&oldid=157309 5* 03Buckets 5* (+108) 10
< 1746654428 68471 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by zzo38_))
< 1746654439 402978 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38
> 1746655412 563200 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ARLPLWAAWN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157314&oldid=157305 5* 03Dgt2016 5* (-746) 10Blanked the page
< 1746656642 414779 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1746657024 7922 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:d43:3b62:1503:cb84 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1746657493 987234 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1746657719 711411 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
> 1746659443 419450 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157315&oldid=156990 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+299) 10
> 1746659586 231535 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[072025!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157316&oldid=149345 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+69) 10/* Examples */
< 1746661038 33662 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement
> 1746662957 367110 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Dgt2016 5*  10moved [[02ARLPLWAAWN10]] to [[Fava]]: I changed name to my lang :3
> 1746662995 903313 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ARLPLWAAWN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157319&oldid=157318 5* 03Dgt2016 5* (-18) 10Blanked the page
> 1746666455 623110 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Dgt201614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157320&oldid=157196 5* 03Dgt2016 5* (-149) 10
> 1746666872 686168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fava14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157321&oldid=157317 5* 03Dgt2016 5* (+346) 10
> 1746667180 126830 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Shifted brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157322&oldid=157173 5* 03L4.m2 5* (+58) 10
> 1746671198 604988 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FCompiler14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157323 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+1496) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}}{{stub}} [https://tio.run/##jVZNb@M2ED1bv2KiYrES7BrJ9uYih0W7BYoWbbHopRB0UKRxTIemFIra2Cj2t6dvSEqWk6DtxZBG8/Fm3vDR3cntWvPd83PdNky3VJTJ005ppj/twJtk4ewJvwuDT8p0g8vyde@s6rIcVrWl9Col0zp8JLMhcTPrvtPKZen3aV5cl5fucLilNN1Q3RqnzMAwS@V11XVsmszAj481d44@/f7TJ2tbu6
> 1746671218 649781 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/Draft14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157324&oldid=156876 5* 03I am islptng 5* (-3117) 10Blanked the page
> 1746671282 637585 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FCompiler14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157325&oldid=157323 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+202) 10
< 1746675864 222705 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:ec68:4c33:1dc7:d036 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
< 1746688299 475414 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1746688508 623874 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f14f:b20f:416b:87c6 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1746690225 755908 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1746693015 310631 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:ec68:4c33:1dc7:d036 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1746693929 879823 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FCompiler14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157326&oldid=157325 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+1870) 10
< 1746694208 221380 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:ec68:4c33:1dc7:d036 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
> 1746694573 555246 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07;;;*++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157327&oldid=157302 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+93) 10/* Implementation */
> 1746694582 383370 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07;;;*++14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157328&oldid=157327 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-12) 10/* Implementation */
< 1746695322 342907 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-254.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
> 1746695370 90817 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157329&oldid=157167 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+190) 10
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> 1746695832 968919 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BooleanFunge/Interpreter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157332&oldid=157244 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+51) 10
> 1746696466 214363 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Parenthesys14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157333&oldid=157149 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+451) 10/* Examples */
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> 1746704513 770721 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Parenthesys14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157335&oldid=157334 5* 03JIT 5* (+0) 10
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> 1746707259 274682 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MetaInterpreter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157337&oldid=157336 5* 03JIT 5* (+298) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/157336|157336]] by [[Special:Contributions/JIT|JIT]] ([[User talk:JIT|talk]])
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< 1746712407 260022 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hm. I'm wondering if one of the other editor communities (on Discord?) saw the articles about historical metainterpreters, got confused, and decided that the only way to understand the concept is by creating their own metainterpreters.
< 1746712508 705275 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It occurs to me that there's two distinct ways of editing. The path I'm currently on is to build some stuff, and then document it if it could be interesting to others. Their path feels like some sort of land-grab or vanity publishing, where the important thing is to slap one's name onto territory.
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< 1746715463 912264 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1746715493 155871 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I think that for those people, the act of editing is the output/creative step
< 1746715515 86312 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like, they're exploring esolangs live through the medium of wiki pages
< 1746715558 253805 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure that all of them even know how to program, but in some sense, that doesn't actually matter – it's interesting that someone can be involved in esolang development without understanding programming, but in a way it makes sense
< 1746715694 158657 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Well, it helps when we recall that humanity has no idea how to use a computer.
< 1746715751 431944 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It also helps when we note that linguists have historically not only looked at formality as a technical curiosity but as an abomination which fundamentally can't describe natural languages.
< 1746715785 674058 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Combine those and you get the typical conlanger, who doesn't want to talk about maths or computation but otherwise thinks that they can describe the universe.
< 1746715821 520359 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"the ways in which natural languages differ from formalisations of them" is an interesting topic to study
< 1746715855 695061 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think my speech is closer to matching a hypothetical formal grammar for English than most peoples' is, and i think that's a consequence of all the time I've spent programming
< 1746715904 794945 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I know that it's because I learned grammar trees as a child. Curiously, most of my cohort was presented with grammar too, but it didn't rub off on them.
< 1746715936 377524 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Programmers don't have the luxury of not using grammars.
< 1746715939 287927 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am reminded of things like trying to put "only" in the exact correct location in a sentence to convey exactly the meaning I want
< 1746715971 621790 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's quite reminiscent of programming in a golfing language
< 1746715972 59816 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I recently saw somebody complain that "technical", as used by computer-touchers, isn't well-defined. It's actually quite simple: to be technical is to be shallow and pedantic, to only care about details, to be incapable of assembling a big picture without noticing every brush stroke.
< 1746715981 103083 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And of course, that's precisely what a computer demands.
< 1746716016 706493 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure. Non-programmers who learn Lojban have to do a similar thing for placement of {po'o}; it's a wider phenomenon.
< 1746716037 772947 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have been playing a lot of nomic recently, one of the skills in that game is to correctly interpret English sentences that may have been incorrectly written, and produce an exact pedantic meaning from them even if it wasn't the meaning that was intended
< 1746716255 438906 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :This is a very interesting philosophical difference between us! I prefer playing when the system has goal or win conditions, or when comparison is possible, but otherwise I'm not interested. And I feel that way despite usually being near the bottom of the leaderboard.
< 1746716297 11434 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Nomic and similar systems are immediately not interesting; of course there's no context-free denotative semantics for languages like English, and so the resulting game is going to be wild in a way which doesn't have goals, winning, or comparisons.
< 1746716336 91399 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, nomic as a game normally explicitly does have win conditions, written in English – even if there isn't one explicitly, there's always the inherent win condition of "change the rules to add a win condition, then achieve it"
< 1746716374 517363 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it often turns into a game that's more about arguing how to interpret the rules than it is about actually trying to win by following the surface meaning of the rules
< 1746716416 797134 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Right. The metagame is rather obvious. Suppose I can do more pushups than my peer, but they can outrun me; those prior comparisons are easily converted into preferences for how the rules ought to evolve.
< 1746716448 556045 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :If we instead act from behind a veil of ignorance, then the game becomes too symmetric for analysis, and it's purely about which player has the strongest rhetoric.
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< 1746716454 313744 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :indeed – the second-level metagame that evolves from that is less obvious, though
< 1746716491 737936 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm still not sure I (or anyone else) has really figured out that second level despite years of trying
< 1746716520 271248 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Nah, it's the same metagame that we play in the workplace or any other social group, and it's IMO fairly well-described by Gervais theory. For Nomic, the relevant dialect is Powertalk, the rhetoric of establishing what is known by each player and what can be bargained.
< 1746716572 18082 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I happen to be a lifelong Loser, and perhaps that's why I don't care for Nomic. I *could* be a Sociopath, and sometimes I do that in order to get shit done, but fundamentally I understand that Sociopaths are harmful to society at large.
< 1746716615 745687 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Reminder: the topic is the perennial observation that the wiki seems to be treated as a graffiti wall by a large segment of contributors.)
< 1746716620 820514 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so there's a common metastrategy in nomic, sometimes called "pooling", where a set of players cooperate in order to cause one of those players to win, at the expense of the others – in many cases the choice of who will win is decided at random
< 1746716649 574556 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure. The corresponding sociological pattern is called "tontine".
< 1746716652 701172 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :say two people pool, and decide they have a 90% chance for the pool to win but a less than 45% chance for either player to individually win, that makes it rational
< 1746716727 974227 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but, many people (including me) find this an uninteresting way to play because it tends to obviate all other strategies except "scamming" (exploiting non-obvious wording mistakes in the rules in order to get a large advantage, typically an instant win)
< 1746716740 254361 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so, it's common to add rules to make pooling more difficult or less beneficial
< 1746716891 316234 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f14f:b20f:416b:87c6 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1746716898 184265 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the whole thing with the wiki is complicated because it is hard to say that the "low-effort" (as it were) contributions are invalid or unwanted – it's engaging with esolangs primarily/purely as an art form but that's a valid way to interact with them
< 1746716931 819135 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the ideal fix would involve somehow making the higher-effort contributions more searchable
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< 1746716994 135146 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Of course. Similarly, I think I've said before that graffiti is art. It's also politically important, as it indicates to leadership what the common people think of their opinions.
< 1746717041 971664 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think I've made many esolangs purely as art
< 1746717045 892686 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Note that it is fairly straightforward to figure out whether something is a language. In that sense, we shouldn't really have trouble deciding whether submissions are invalid.
< 1746717070 247737 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's Forte for which the aesthetics are important
< 1746717076 470532 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Art is never pure. Art is cultural warfare. Art is expression of a meme within a contextual sea of memes.
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< 1746717107 450168 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, I personally see art as an attempt to communicate things that can't easily be stated directly
< 1746717125 296900 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Monte is art. It's ugly, baroque, and nonetheless terser, faster, and safer than Python or F♯, and that's the memetic statement we wanted to make.
< 1746717171 63854 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I agree that it can be very dependent on context, though (and even when it isn't obviously dependent on context, is normally dependent on being perceived by a human)
< 1746717204 734033 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, "art" isn't a monosemous collection or relation. Rather, whenever we have memetic expression on some substrate, we could say that those memes are art.
< 1746717215 556518 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fwiw I think even the "than Python or F♯" part of your sentence is art in its own way
< 1746717252 207249 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there is meaning in juxtaposing those two languages in particular, as most programmers typically wouldn't consider them similar enough to be included in the same comparison
< 1746717308 817740 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmpf, I guess it's hard to overload && and keep short-circuit evaluation. https://z3prover.github.io/api/html/namespacez3.html#aff9c56735ebfc47895ef746515c09096
< 1746717345 754509 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: indeed, you would need an overload feature that works for control flow operators, not just arithmetic operators
< 1746717364 742295 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(solution was to do  a && bool(expr)  instead of a && expr)
< 1746717390 191351 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is probably possible to make something like that work via having a language that "lazifies" arguments based on what function/method/operator is being caled
< 1746717391 743967 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* called
< 1746717403 738794 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Yeah I know. The complaint is really that it looked so innocent in the source code :-)
< 1746717409 283250 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it is also probably clearer to explicitly wrap the possibly-unevaluated arguments in closures
< 1746717506 763352 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: FWIW the conlang community has long recognized the idea of artlangs and recognizes that there's a fairly dramatic difference between e.g. loglangs and artlangs.
< 1746717510 574715 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh well, at least I didn't spend terribly long debugging this, just a few minutes.
< 1746717526 886791 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :There would not be much shame in recognizing that some of the wiki is dedicated to logic and some to art.
< 1746717548 664413 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Perl and Tcl both support user-defined subroutines that accept blocks as arguments, and can decide how much to evaluate them
< 1746717565 357558 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: indeed, and in some cases the lines blur
< 1746717576 863202 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but there are more cases where it's clearly separate
< 1746717578 168229 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Meanwhile I remain genuinely puzzled about the existence of [[language list]]. I recognize that we're not beholden to English WP's expectations about database use (hence all the redirects) but I still think that such a large manually-curated page is an antipattern.
< 1746717612 505566 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it made more sense in the past, when there were fewer languages on the wiki
< 1746717616 965368 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Alternatively, consider: Perhaps the art of e.g. Lojban is that the meme being expressed to society is logical structure itself.
< 1746717650 843298 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I do find that it's in some sense a useful filter of effort – if people can't be bothered to even add their language to the list it says something about how much effort they think it's worth
< 1746717651 777874 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think "loglang" is a fairly well-delineated category which happens to include most proglangs.
< 1746717677 426943 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure. And that's why I don't add my languages to the list; I don't think that anybody else should actually use my work.
< 1746717724 354665 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"use" is a loaded verb here
< 1746717744 301476 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are some languages that aren't really intended to be programmed in, but instead need to exist for some other reason (e.g. producing proofs)
< 1746717756 39375 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :No, not really. I think that reading about my work could be interesting, but actually using anything I've designed or built is folly.
< 1746717758 281261 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is that using them?
< 1746717772 561467 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Do you use any of my languages in that way?
< 1746717821 720794 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so far I haven't – but that's at least partly because I've been struggling with mental health since before I met you, so I haven't really had the mental bandwidth to look at anyone else's esolangs in much detail
< 1746717843 510330 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have a fairly straightforward point. I suspect that you're not thrilled to learn that I don't care about myself or my creative output.
< 1746717877 266221 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, don't worry about that. I was born mad and time hasn't really helped. I'm not here to judge, I'm here to improve the wiki.
< 1746717927 335094 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :all this reminds me of an esolang that I've been meaning to document for a while
< 1746717944 318588 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's not clearly useful for anything, other than being a TCness proving challenge, and exists mostly because of an aesthetic goal
< 1746718082 943946 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Good times.
> 1746718789 676783 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Symmetric Echo Tag14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157339 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1754) 10an idea I've had for a while and probably ought to document
> 1746718827 206688 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157340&oldid=157308 5* 03Ais523 5* (+25) 10/* S */ Symmetric Echo Tag
< 1746719076 91957 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've posted it, anyway – it's lower-effort than many of my languages, but may have value in not being obviously Turing-complete nor obviously Turing-incomplete
< 1746719474 26074 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I appreciate your effort. Thanks for sharing.
> 1746719942 464637 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157341&oldid=157180 5* 03H33T33 5* (-213) 10
> 1746719978 411730 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157342&oldid=157341 5* 03H33T33 5* (+0) 10
> 1746720134 973799 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157343&oldid=157342 5* 03H33T33 5* (-1) 10
> 1746720242 169392 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157344&oldid=157343 5* 03H33T33 5* (-184) 10
> 1746720446 531840 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157345&oldid=157344 5* 03H33T33 5* (+23) 10
> 1746720617 988221 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157346&oldid=157345 5* 03H33T33 5* (+76) 10
> 1746721799 106852 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Symmetric Echo Tag14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157347&oldid=157339 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+181) 10Implement
< 1746721945 972694 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wow, that was fast
< 1746721954 167539 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I was expecting someone to do that… just not that quickly)
< 1746721994 558944 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and to clarify, because English is ambiguous sometimes: "expecting" in the sense of "I thought it would happen" rather than "I thought it should happen"
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> 1746723249 974543 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157348&oldid=157346 5* 03H33T33 5* (+1) 10
> 1746723381 71308 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bobble14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157349&oldid=157122 5* 03H33T33 5* (+0) 10/* Hello, World! */
< 1746723523 220169 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:ec68:4c33:1dc7:d036 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
< 1746723604 420454 :ajal!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1746723710 735972 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f14f:b20f:416b:87c6 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
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> 1746724177 195389 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157351&oldid=157350 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+39) 10/* Users */
> 1746724312 79604 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157352&oldid=157351 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-2) 10/* Users */
< 1746725623 912599 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1746725656 451182 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Good Night
> 1746726648 588302 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Kyrsig 5*  10New user account
< 1746727064 874285 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1746727333 155293 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit
> 1746728876 150035 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157353&oldid=157352 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+174) 10/* Announcement */
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< 1746731330 670948 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :b_jonas
> 1746732018 499377 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreter modification14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157354 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+748) 10Created page with "'''Interpreter-modifying''' is a concept invented by [[User:TBPO]], through it was used a few times before.  An interpreter-modifying esoteric programming language is an esolang that can modify the way it interprets the code in runtime.  A basi
> 1746732059 861185 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreter modification14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157355&oldid=157354 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+30) 10
> 1746732334 801995 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FAGI14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157356 5* 03Lucaz37 5* (+3102) 10Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=FAGI |author=[[Lucaz37]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |memsys=Both Cell-based and Stack-based |dimensions=one-dimensional |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |files=.fagi, .fg }}  THIS IS STILL WORK IN PR
> 1746732463 843183 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5*  10moved [[02Interpreter modification10]] to [[Interpreter-modifying]]: Misspelled title
> 1746732541 294495 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Candrabindu14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157359 5* 03 5* (+739) 10Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=  }} '''''' is a stack-based esolang using diacritics. There are 52 different stacks, one for each letter uppercase or lowercase. The operation to perform is based on the diacritic on the letter. {| class="wikitable" |+ Commands |- |  || Pushes a 1 onto t
> 1746732797 398014 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Candrabindu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157360&oldid=157359 5* 03 5* (+145) 10
> 1746733419 164410 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreter-modifying14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157361&oldid=157357 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+4) 10
> 1746735966 481143 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BrainGuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157362&oldid=118911 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+438) 10Introduced an examples section comprehending one incipial member in a restricted reverse cat program.
> 1746736054 468913 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BrainGuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157363&oldid=157362 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+187) 10Marked the original interpreter as expired and added a hyperlink to my implementation on GitHub.
> 1746736078 391184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreter-modifying14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157364&oldid=157361 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+46) 10
> 1746736191 850961 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreter-modifying14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157365&oldid=157364 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+10) 10
> 1746736430 566344 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Candrabindu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157366&oldid=157360 5* 03 5* (+167) 10
> 1746736465 541121 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreterion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157367&oldid=157253 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+13) 10/* Implementation notes */
> 1746736873 220910 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Forever14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157368 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+2010) 10Created page with "==Intro== Forever is an esolang created by [[User:Helpeesl]] on May 8th 2025ad designed to have really long programs without doing stuff like [[Lenguage]](i.e. not using an instruction set thats tied to the length of the line/program). ==Commands== The commands were de
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> 1746736946 567802 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreterion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157369&oldid=157367 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+45) 10/* Implementation notes */
< 1746737478 291031 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f14f:b20f:416b:87c6 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1746740394 702994 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f14f:b20f:416b:87c6 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
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< 1746741262 252164 :izabera!izabera@user/meow/izabera NICK :isabella
> 1746742720 149714 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157370&oldid=157340 5* 03Buckets 5* (+11) 10
> 1746742749 212660 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157371&oldid=157313 5* 03Buckets 5* (+10) 10
> 1746742775 424005 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ttem14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157372 5* 03Buckets 5* (+1191) 10Created page with "{{Stub}} Ttem is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2024. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | [ || Start a set. |- | ] || End a set. |- | + || +1. |- | - || -1. |- | , || A comma for the set. |- | ! || Instruct. |}  Ttem was
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< 1746744061 326573 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
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< 1746744153 304937 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life
> 1746744316 186366 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157373&oldid=157348 5* 03H33T33 5* (+527) 10
> 1746744566 627962 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157374&oldid=157373 5* 03H33T33 5* (-39) 10
> 1746744833 67241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ttem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157375&oldid=157372 5* 03Buckets 5* (+0) 10
< 1746744935 899226 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1746746745 369140 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
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> 1746747310 337789 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157377&oldid=157376 5* 03H33T33 5* (+0) 10
> 1746747542 944857 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157378&oldid=157181 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+714) 10/* Rating */ new section
> 1746748004 780386 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/My rate to the user I know14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157379&oldid=156770 5* 03I am islptng 5* (-573) 10
> 1746748231 478707 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157380&oldid=157329 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+96) 10
< 1746749799 876286 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1746749824 639851 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron (they/them)
> 1746752392 717572 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Tip14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157381&oldid=56661 5* 03CreeperBomb 5* (+953) 10
> 1746752607 806483 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/SingleOperandAssembly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157382&oldid=150961 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+1750) 10
> 1746753015 474127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FCompiler/Headers14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157383 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+26) 10Created page with "{{back|fCompiler}} {{WIP}}"
> 1746753026 878702 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FCompiler14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157384&oldid=157326 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+163) 10
< 1746753858 544731 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement
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< 1746772336 129580 :tromp!~textual@89-99-43-152.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
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< 1746775772 408040 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1746776216 758069 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:I am islptng14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157387&oldid=157312 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+70) 10
> 1746777863 884489 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Anti-Machine language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157388&oldid=157215 5* 03JIT 5* (+66) 10
> 1746778169 390135 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Anti-Machine language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157389&oldid=157388 5* 03JIT 5* (+59) 10
> 1746778174 586192 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:I am islptng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157390&oldid=157387 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+29) 10/* Maybe a good rule... */
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< 1746786388 416108 :FreeFull!~freefull@79.186.68.86.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull
< 1746786932 470191 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi
> 1746787046 862106 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:B jonas/List14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157392&oldid=151366 5* 03B jonas 5* (+457) 10
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> 1746789468 95787 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GML14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157393&oldid=122164 5* 03B jonas 5* (+2554) 10
> 1746789730 273814 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Concatenative calculus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157394&oldid=156938 5* 03B jonas 5* (+139) 10/* Languages */
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> 1746794896 594227 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Albuquerque challenge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157395&oldid=157177 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+181) 10
> 1746795572 172878 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Pjk 5*  10New user account
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> 1746798042 897507 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157397&oldid=157396 5* 03H33T33 5* (+27) 10
> 1746798842 624727 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SETANDCOUNT14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157398&oldid=155200 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+58) 10/* Interpreter */
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< 1746809738 424594 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have a question. I just tried to describe at https://esolangs.org/wiki/GML#Concatenative_calculus_as_a_special_case that there's this very simple subset of GML that implements concatenative (stack-based) calculus. All you need is lexically local bindings that you can load and push, or pop and bind to a new one, abstraction braces that create a new closure with the given body but saves the upvalues 
< 1746809744 432609 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :from the current environment in the closure (this is set!less so it doesn't matter if you save them by reference like scheme does or by value) and pushes that closure, and an apply operation that pops a closure and calls it. The trick is that functions don't take an argument like in lambda calculus, but instead share the stack with their callers. 
< 1746809912 574555 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I find this interesting because it seems like concatenative calculus was first published in 2001, while GML was first published in 2000. I want to be careful so I don't want to claim that GML pre-invented concatenative calculus. I know it's often hard to notice that there's a small powerful core language hidden inside your language if you only keep a few parts of it. This has happened to me with 
< 1746809918 585108 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Consumer Society, where it took me about half a year after I started to think about it just how few parts the language needs to keep. And IIUC for Underload it took even more time to find them in a larger language. 
< 1746810044 486166 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So what I'd like to know is, what's the earliest precursor for this combination to appear, the closures with lexically local bindings but stack-based? I don't know if something close enough to Joy was known before 2001, I'm new to this whole history. While GML as such obviously wasn't published before 2000, it is likely based on some previous languages, and some of them might be similar.
< 1746810143 687820 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :To be clear, GML is larger than this core language: Joy is like lambda calculus is that every value is a function and the only thing you can do with a function is call it, whereas GML has the square brackets which let you distinguish a mark value on the stack from functions. 
< 1746810278 118935 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The stack clearly existed before, PostScript has a similar stack and is clearly older. And lexically local bindings in closures also clearly existed before, such as in scheme.
< 1746810419 221048 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Or in lambda calculus for that matter. Both lambda calculus and postscript are in what counts as the prehistory of esolangs here.
> 1746810474 809604 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157399&oldid=157397 5* 03H33T33 5* (+29) 10
< 1746810792 754486 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I was actually going to ping you about this earlier. So, I don't know exactly when quotations came about; https://concatenative.org/wiki/view/Quotations says PostScript has them, and that'd be a good missing link between Forth and Factor.
< 1746810859 955803 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But everything aside from quotations is straight out of category theory and abstract algebra; they're from universal properties that are so common that mathematicians have started naming them. The main thing that computer scientists added was stack-based evaluation semantics, later justified by realizing that certain categories are (equivalent to) certain lambda calculi.
< 1746810929 994154 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that it might be good to start the page, "Kerby's concatenative calculus is ..." given the context you've documented.
< 1746811207 988814 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1746812645 780277 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: postscript is relevant, it's not quite clear to me how naturally you could simulate this core language in postscript. there's also the inconvenience that running such code would probably have to heap-allocate a lot of objects, so in practice you could only run it in a non-old postscript interpreter so as to automatically free those objects with reference counting or some other garbage collection 
< 1746812651 786794 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :mechanism built into the postscript interpreter. but I think suitable garbage collection was of course already known at the time for lisps, they just hadn't put it into the postscript interpreters because it was supposed to run on cheap hardware.
< 1746812682 874399 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't understand the category theory part, or how Cammy is connected
< 1746812801 705715 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :cu
< 1746812834 23811 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think you may be using use postscript square brackets to create the closures like the GML square bracket, because that lets you save a reference to the upvalue everywhere a variable is referenced. and I think you can use dynamic local postscript bindings to reference variables that are bound at the same level, though I'm not sure which level of postscript you need for that
< 1746813442 66817 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The category theory is not hard, but it is kind of a mind-melter. Von Thun put it best: the syntax has a monoid, and the semantics that we intend to use also has a monoid. We just choose the monoid with unit "" and concatenation `++` because that's easy to think about.
< 1746813484 932381 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Except, uh, that monoid doesn't work for Joy. It works for Brainfuck! But Joy, Factor, etc. need to add whitespace. So clearly we're okay with syntactic monoids that add some extra characters.
< 1746813549 225774 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Cammy's monoid has unit `"id"` and concatenation `"(comp " + " ".join(args) + ")"`. Like in Joy, it's technically monoidoid, because the types need to line up.
< 1746813568 202267 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And then there's a relevant category-theory slogan: a monoidoid is a category.
< 1746813573 898224 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :why is whitespace a problem? whitespace is a no-op, and there will be other no-op functions anyway
< 1746813612 214260 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Whitespace puts a lie to the idea that juxtaposition is how we concatenate the syntax. Like, given Joy programs "drop" and "dup", the concatenation would be "dropdup" but we actually want "drop dup".
< 1746813646 951084 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, then use strings (or even trees) of tokens instead of strings of characters
< 1746813835 327561 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :That would be a semantics. Any kind of interpretation, even abstract syntax, would be a mapping. What we want is for every such mapping to be a monoid homomorphism, because then we can compose the mappings and always preserve this idea of juxtaposition leading to composition.
< 1746813920 710340 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, but at least a token list is just the easy part of semantics, one which we call syntax. 
< 1746814019 741291 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I know. I'm merely trying to get across what Von Thun was seeing. It's not about parsing or stacks. It's about the idea that we can run one program after another, and what it means for the syntax to reflect that.
< 1746814212 307211 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Could I at least convince you that some languages *don't* have this nice property? Like, there are some languages s.t. there's *no* fixed syntax which will compose two arbitrary input programs (assuming their types already line up).
< 1746814278 267260 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Most industrial-usage serious-business languages fail this just because of how their compilers are defined. I suppose Java might be one of the exceptions.
< 1746815180 569624 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: sure, it helps that Joy is concatenative
< 1746815280 444927 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hold on, this reminds me of something, let me find the reference
< 1746815318 528991 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Oh! Okay, so I think I get it. There's a really common meme in the catlang community: juxtaposition is composition. This is used to gatekeep; if the monoid isn't literally "" and ++ then it's not a catlang.
< 1746815348 392612 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And I'm just pointing out that this is reductive because obviously Joy's syntactic monoid requires whitespace too. It's a *fixed* whitespace, so everything still works, but it's not like Brainfuck.
< 1746815400 946044 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also, like, juxtaposition is composition in Brainfuck but nobody seems to actually point this out. It's like a catlang has to have some specific heritage or it doesn't count, and I don't really like that treatment of what should be a mathematical property.
< 1746815545 787322 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :http://www.madore.org/cgi-bin/comment.pl/showcomments?href=http%3a%2f%2fwww.madore.org%2f~david%2fweblog%2f2015-04.html%23d.2015-04-24.2292#comment-21587 explains that not only the movements on the Rubik's cube form a group, but something stronger is true: the visible states of the Rubik's cube (the information that's preserved if you take a color photo of all sides) forms a group, and this latter is 
< 1746815551 793279 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not true for the 4×4×4 rubik's cube. 
< 1746815602 527801 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think a concatenative language is something that has a simple structure like this, where it's easy to see the whole state of the runtime, and that state forms a group with composing programs
< 1746815612 361195 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, yeah. Cayley's theorem is a powerful intuition.
< 1746815632 126370 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, a monoid, not a group. Not every action is invertible.
< 1746815640 68901 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, a monoid
< 1746815739 710381 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I don't think the whitespace is a problem here, you can consider Joy concatenative even if you need to add a space between when you concatenate two programs. it's like you're building one of those super-fast rubik cube solving robots (there's way too many of them) and they have to wait a little between every too moves otherwise something in the machine+cube may break
< 1746815744 542090 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So, in that sense, Cammy is provably such a language. Cammy is what we call "initial in a certain category"; among everything with that property, Cammy always can be mapped into that thing.
< 1746815781 793578 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Brainfuck is also an example. The state of the machine is what you'd expect: the cells, the pointer, the input and output.
< 1746815867 223764 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure, the whitespace is acceptable. But for something like Malbolge or Bubblegum, there might not be a single fixed string template which glues together two input programs, even if their underlying VMs can do it.
< 1746815972 585136 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Reminded of my phrasing at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Categorization#Monoids "By the folklore of concatenative languages, ... all of the concatenative and tacit languages would go in [a category for monoidal languages]."
< 1746816161 765053 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :btw considering Joy a string of tokens works because all the questions that I asked still apply in interpretation, the representation with characters doesn't matter much
< 1746816194 779719 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I might care about the concrete syntax for aesthetics of course)
< 1746816335 915863 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah. But this also happens when the language wasn't designed for it. Application is composition (another fun slogan), so Unlambda has a monoidoid. IIRC the unit is "i" and composition is "`c" + p + q.
< 1746816642 495319 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Sorry if I'm being pushy about this. I just really want to avoid having three different articles about the same topic that have slightly different perspectives on the fundamentals.
< 1746816708 446867 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also https://concatenative.org/wiki/view/Concatenative%20language says stuff like "In an applicative language, things are evaluated by applying functions to arguments. In a concatenative programming language, things are evaluated by composing several functions which all operate on a piece of data." Categorically, those are the *same thing*.
< 1746816775 200679 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Because in a category an "argument" or "element" is just a special case of a function!)
< 1746816857 66650 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1746816872 975544 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think BF only forms a monoid if you ignore the rule that the tape starts as all-zeroes
< 1746816904 786305 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because if you are composing two programs, rather than two program fragments, don't you have to zero the tape in between?
< 1746816973 200797 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for the composition to work, you have to generalise BF programs into BF subroutines (i.e. capable of taking input from the tape)
< 1746817070 9614 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Monoidoids are acceptable; Joy's composition is only defined when the types line up, and Factor also has stack-checking.
< 1746817114 760748 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It is not a problem to think of a BF program as having a type which indicates how its tape should be aligned (say, in the world where BF tapes don't loop!) and then requiring alignment in order to concatenate.
< 1746817387 963097 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Oh! The tape itself having all zeroes! Yeah, we're not doing Kolmogorov complexity. What we're getting at is the idea that a compiler is a homomorphism: a compiler can be defined in terms of the structure of the input language and will preserve that structure in its output.
< 1746817434 791536 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lists are free monoids, so any time a compiler is storing something in a list, it's probably manipulating a monoid. Peephole specializers exhibit non-trivial monoids, for example.
< 1746817552 730336 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION trying not to be flowery

< 1746817650 846272 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The compiler might have to emit a prologue, epilogue, or harness. But the guts of the compiler, like some generic optimizer that operates on hunks of code, can still respect the monoid.
< 1746817796 478192 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Okay, actually, let's go with that route and consider a basic-block compiler. It usually will have a monoid which it uses to split blocks into pieces that don't interact with each other.
< 1746817854 779644 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And that's because there's a monoid. Given two basic blocks, we can merge them s.t. we take in all of the inputs, do all of the operations without any overlapping, and return all of the outputs. The unit is a do-nothing block with no inputs or outputs.
< 1746817905 554928 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*usually will have a pass, rather. The pass exhibits the monoid.
> 1746818118 587440 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Candrabindu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157400&oldid=157366 5* 03 5* (+361) 10
> 1746818415 332746 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157401 5* 03 5* (+1416) 10Moved this page over from Candrabindu.
> 1746818465 383695 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Candrabindu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157402&oldid=157400 5* 03 5* (-1396) 10Redirected page to [[]]
< 1746818843 47138 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I gotta stop going on rants right when Europe wants to go to bed. Sorry, I'll be around later too.
< 1746818861 392114 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I believed "lists are free monoids" for ages, but think it's actually wrong: you can have an empty list as a list element
< 1746818909 652673 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :free monoids are like lists, but they automatically flatten
< 1746818951 263556 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:ec68:4c33:1dc7:d036 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
< 1746818974 456734 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, those are lists of lists. Different types.
< 1746819040 953445 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fwiw, I was wondering whether Rust functions F and G compose syntactically as (|x|{({\nF})(({\nG})(x))}) – I'm not quite sure whether Rust's identifier hygiene is up to it but it might be
< 1746819057 581972 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, newline after F and G, not before, in case there's an unterminated line comment
< 1746819125 831468 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Probably, as long as stack behavior isn't a problem. In OCaml, that approach doesn't work, and it's why I had to port Cammy away from OCaml and to CHICKEN Scheme.
< 1746819127 142294 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Rust is very permissive with allowing things inside blocks that most languages only allow at top level, which is what makes me think it might actually work, but there's probably an obvious counterexample I'm missing
< 1746819164 723661 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :type inference seems like it might be the largest problem, but if G forces a type on its argument, I think this will force the same type on its argument, and there are no other type inference problems
< 1746819349 915332 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Trying to remember whether `|x|{x}` can infer a general type. Like, can that be an &mut?
< 1746819378 125686 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, can be anything apart from an unsized type I think
< 1746819488 188735 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2024&code=fn+main%28%29+%7B%0A++++let+mut+a+%3D+%5B1u32%2C+2%2C+3%5D%3B%0A++++%28%7Cx%7C%7Bx%7D%29%28%26mut+a%29%3B%0A++++%28%7Cx%7C%7Bx%7D%29%28a%5B..%5D%29%3B%0A%7D
< 1746819499 874503 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :&mut works, unsized types don't
< 1746819538 925681 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, even though I'll probably be awake for a while, the shops will be closing and I need to go shopping
< 1746819541 94569 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :later
< 1746819542 818955 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1746819620 28527 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Peace.
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> 1746822921 354074 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Brain Boy 5314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157403&oldid=150115 5* 03Brain Boy 53 5* (+1) 10
> 1746822943 872918 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Brain Boy 5314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157404&oldid=157403 5* 03Brain Boy 53 5* (+0) 10
< 1746823818 744128 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Huh. Turns out fungot might have a Gmail account that I wasn't aware of.
< 1746823819 214119 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: that zippy appears to be an infinite-dimensional space, isn't it?)
< 1746823864 644664 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I got a "your Google Account has not been used in at least 8 months" email, and searching for that in my email archives, there's a 2010 Gmail invite (I guess you needed one at the time to open an account), so maybe I (or fungot acting independently?) made one.
< 1746823865 255120 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: e.g. when using separate files, then run it check if the ending of a string is not empty
> 1746824822 992807 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07NoError14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157405&oldid=150116 5* 03Brain Boy 53 5* (+56) 10
> 1746826362 366041 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arbitrary memory emulation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157406&oldid=157148 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+16) 10
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> 1746828669 384570 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157407&oldid=157371 5* 03Buckets 5* (+22) 10
> 1746828681 989777 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets/OMC14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157408 5* 03Buckets 5* (+1729) 10Created page with "OMC stands for Other Mathematical Concepts.  Core Sequence:  0,1,13...  Have n Uniquely different items, The number for the core Sequence Is the longest Sequence as a number, The Sequence only has to follow 2 rules:  # There Cannot be A sequence where the Same 
< 1746829410 709313 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Is there TLS library that you can mostly just change send to TLS_send and recv to TLS_recv in most of the program, that it can work with unencrypted connections as well? I also want to do my own handling of certificates (so the callback function only needs to extract the public key, or do nothing if the callback function decides that the certificate should not be used)
< 1746830505 283413 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
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> 1746831316 471282 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Anti-Machine language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157409&oldid=124048 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+318) 10/* What counts as a machine? */ new section
> 1746831573 777661 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Concatenative calculus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157410&oldid=157394 5* 03Stkptr 5* (-45) 10/* Languages */ "syntactical monoid" is profoundly verbose for no benefit to the reader
> 1746831688 838234 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157411&oldid=157378 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+269) 10
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> 1746858038 185347 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Burnlike14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157414 5* 03Truttle1 5* (+5834) 10Made a Burnlike Page
> 1746858057 321531 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Truttle114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157415&oldid=82042 5* 03Truttle1 5* (+15) 10
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> 1746858182 497341 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Burnlike14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157417&oldid=157416 5* 03Truttle1 5* (+3465) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/157416|157416]] by [[Special:Contributions/Truttle1|Truttle1]] ([[User talk:Truttle1|talk]])
> 1746858454 474014 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157418&oldid=156530 5* 03I am islptng 5* (-344) 10xdi8 is completely unrelated to esolang
< 1746859583 316968 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is there a programming language (imagine a variant of rust) that tries to follow what combinations of values boolean local variables (or the discriminants of enums) can have when they're used in conditionals to determine what combinations of code paths are possible, not just for optimization, but to determine what programs are valid? eg. you're using a variable that looks like it might be initialized, 
< 1746859589 325145 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but you use it in a conditional that implies that a certain boolean is true, and that boolean can only become true if you passed through a code path that initializes that variable, so using that variable is allowed. of course this gets more interesting when it has to follow the combination of many flags through some complicated function with many loops and conditionals. 
< 1746859621 410610 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :of course you may need some sort of cut-off for this so the compilation time doesn't need to be exponential in the code size.
< 1746859649 713925 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess some of the computer-checked proof languages must do this. 
< 1746861092 798781 :razetime!~quassel@49.207.228.134 JOIN #esolangs * :razetime
< 1746862778 723271 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi
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< 1746864514 311925 :Guest7732!Ae@linux.touz.org NICK :Koen_
< 1746864518 272308 :Koen_!Ae@linux.touz.org NICK :Ae
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< 1746866451 780376 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I like that idea but don't know of one
< 1746866535 687651 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :of course you can kind-of trick the optimiser into trying to do that in most AOT-compiled languages, and it may be possible to get a compile error out of it using failing link-time asserts that will be optimised out if the program is correct
< 1746868949 30241 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: oh yeah, there was an old behavior in gcc that may have been a bug. Back then, the old C standard said that any integral typed *constant expression* with value zero could be implicitly converted to a null pointer of any type. But gcc considered something like (x - x) where x is an integer non-constant as a constant expression with value zero, so it allowed you to cast (x - x) to a null pointer. 
< 1746868955 36137 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think you could abuse this in some funny way but I don't quite remember how. Later gcc fixed this, and also some later C or C++ standard changed the rule that only a *literal* with integer zero value can be implicitly converted to a null pointer of any type.
< 1746869015 57728 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think this was a bug only in C++ where you can detect if that implicit conversion is possible without an error if the conversion isn't possible, using function overloading.
< 1746869045 526207 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :In C it was just what the gcc manual calls "your bug might be just our reasonable extension" or something like that
< 1746869174 399470 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :These days with constexpr and consteval and template parameters and C variable sized arrays, gcc cares enough to track exactly which expressions count as constant expressions for the purpose of the language standard, so it won't have this kind of bug so easily just because the optimizer proves something constant.
< 1746869303 477850 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and thus Rust's value generic parameters and all of zig was born)
< 1746870682 908936 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7096:3eb3:2e24:9bff JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1746870828 250016 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1746873497 563126 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Pifrited 5*  10New user account
> 1746873875 263527 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157419&oldid=157307 5* 03Pifrited 5* (+128) 10
> 1746873891 759628 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157420&oldid=157418 5* 03Pifrited 5* (+51) 10
< 1746875777 558454 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7096:3eb3:2e24:9bff QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1746876968 620237 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7096:3eb3:2e24:9bff JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1746878131 623972 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
< 1746878232 490786 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1746878527 230891 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1746878532 806831 :ajal!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname
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< 1746882445 478457 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7096:3eb3:2e24:9bff JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1746884870 853838 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7096:3eb3:2e24:9bff QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1746886027 767405 :ajal!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1746886037 604963 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
< 1746886847 109931 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: The phrase to search for is "flow-sensitive typing", or just "flow typing". RPython does this, for example; when I try to translate a program, sometimes the toolchain will tell me that an impossible value was reached or that a string slice wasn't proven non-negative.
< 1746886932 600061 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like, `stop = length - CONST; slice = s[start:stop]` might fail to translate because the variable `stop` could be less than zero.
< 1746886972 578867 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So I must write `stop = length - CONST; assert stop >= 0, "cauliflower"; slice = s[start:stop]`. This is convincing.
< 1746887011 552629 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Similarly RPython won't allow dereferencing an abstract superclass, but it will let me access subclass variables and methods as long as I've proven it somehow.
< 1746887033 722894 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`obj.myMethod()` maybe not okay, but `if isinstance(obj, MyClass): obj.myMethod()` works fine.
< 1746887036 270607 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :obj.myMethod()`? No such file or directory
< 1746887233 105832 :lynndotpy6!~rootcanal@134.122.123.70 QUIT :Quit: bye bye
< 1746887302 271119 :lynndotpy6!~rootcanal@134.122.123.70 JOIN #esolangs lynndotpy :lynn
< 1746888052 784625 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7096:3eb3:2e24:9bff JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1746891198 262343 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:ec68:4c33:1dc7:d036 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
< 1746891285 587997 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer
< 1746891317 766523 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
> 1746892093 137953 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mlatu-614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157421&oldid=157300 5* 03Zhil 5* (+26) 10
< 1746892490 573946 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I see
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< 1746893735 987931 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7096:3eb3:2e24:9bff JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1746894939 181024 :razetime!~quassel@49.207.228.134 JOIN #esolangs razetime :razetime
< 1746896668 293395 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7096:3eb3:2e24:9bff QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1746898247 968444 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157422&oldid=157420 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+0) 10formatting
< 1746898498 919683 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I find the representation of the JPEG format kind of annoying. It seems to be trying to merge two goals that are somewhat contradictory: that the JPEG writer can write the file in one pass without seeking even if it doesn't have much RAM, and that the reader can skip ahead and decode just parts of it. Because of this, the Huffman-compressed data, which should be most of the JPEG file, is encoded such 
< 1746898504 925541 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that any 0xFF bytes have to be escaped, because 0xFF is an escape byte. So there are no length fields that let the reader skip ahead, instead to seek ahead you have to scan all the bytes to find 0xFF bytes, though you don't have to decode the Huffman data. The Huffmanized data format admittedly does have some bias that makes long strings of one-bits less common, but since it's a bit-aligned variable 
< 1746898510 937441 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :format, it can still appear. 
< 1746898611 663758 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The original version of the format was designed in 1992, and it shows. There's a later replacement JPEG2000 that's much more capable in what it can represent, though I don't know how it represents them at bytes so I don't know if it has these contradictory goals. But very few programs actually adapted JPEG2000, and now it's basically dead because Webp got adapted as the new compressed image format 
< 1746898617 670594 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :instead.
< 1746898778 654968 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean it makes sense that if nobody adopted JPEG2000 for 25 years then instead of adopting it later you design a newer file format that is hopefully better.
< 1746899043 437218 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm aren't you forgetting JPEG XL?
< 1746899076 485250 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(status: killed by Google, at least as far as the WWW is concerned)
> 1746899138 289139 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Foldy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157423&oldid=155300 5* 03Squareroot12621 5* (+8) 10Example programs are now === level 3 === instead of == level 2 ==
< 1746899152 864499 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know what JPEG XL is
< 1746899199 108644 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.phoronix.com/news/Chrome-Dropping-JPEG-XL-Reasons
< 1746899272 84116 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(More about the "killed by Google" aspect than about what it is... it compresses better than webp though.)
< 1746899317 901050 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"compresses better" isn't the only aspect that you have to evaluate
< 1746899326 623642 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :at the same quality
< 1746899559 435673 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, has anyone made a esolangs compressed image format yet? it sounds like someone in esolangs is bound to make one eventually. tom7 wrote that he wants to develop a video compression, but that's not ready yet.
< 1746899585 124055 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the ICFP one?
< 1746899618 595036 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait... I dimly recall something, where was that?
< 1746899632 723741 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :2007, Morph Endo
< 1746899671 254888 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh... I guess you could consider it a compressed image format, but it's kind of terrible
< 1746899701 917410 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it is very esoteric
< 1746899724 283771 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was thinking of something that's more practical than that but is still related to the community
< 1746899748 299012 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7096:3eb3:2e24:9bff JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1746899749 816692 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wasn't there one in IOCCC?
< 1746899825 836954 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yep, Fabrice Bellard of course, ioccc/2018/bellard
> 1746899904 359570 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Aadenboy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157424&oldid=152492 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+338) 10/* Baba Is You pack */ new section
< 1746900149 359857 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://bellard.org/bpg/ is the full non-IOCCC version of it
< 1746900189 805882 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and https://bellard.org/ioccc_lena/ is the info page of the IOCCC version
< 1746901283 220627 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:b824:6ff8:e6cb:f4c JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
> 1746901932 794286 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Aadenboy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157425&oldid=157424 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+324) 10
< 1746903710 6166 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:b824:6ff8:e6cb:f4c QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1746903730 657400 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38
> 1746904952 554788 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Flowchart14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157426 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+3070) 10Created page with "Flowchart is an esolang created by [[User:Aadenboy]] directly based on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowchart flowcharts].  == Structure == Flowchart works on a 2D space, with actions connected by lines. Programs start on the first ( ) node, of which i
> 1746905013 24555 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157427&oldid=157370 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+16) 10/* F */ add [[Flowchart]]
> 1746905096 556310 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157428&oldid=156947 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+69) 10/* my own esolangs */ add [[Flowchart]]
< 1746905496 658644 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :cu
< 1746905562 338635 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1746908950 954604 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7096:3eb3:2e24:9bff QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1746913994 6121 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RainbowDash14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157429&oldid=157047 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (+4693) 10New page hooray! I think i might be over doing it though. Gotta see how this looks might revert
> 1746914006 592166 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RainbowDash14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157430&oldid=157429 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (+1) 10
> 1746914050 223592 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RainbowDash14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157431&oldid=157430 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (+2) 10
> 1746914117 33341 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RainbowDash14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157432&oldid=157431 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (-5) 10
> 1746914486 29070 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157433&oldid=157427 5* 03Buckets 5* (+11) 10
> 1746914487 998508 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07File talk:Ldpl-logo.png14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157434 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (+108) 10Created page with "cute little guy --~~~~"
> 1746914508 17051 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157435&oldid=157407 5* 03Buckets 5* (+10) 10
> 1746914521 806664 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Aivr14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157436 5* 03Buckets 5* (+2310) 10Created page with "Aivr(, or AIVR, Which stands for Advanced Interactive Voice Responce) is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2020.  {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | Say [] || From within the Square brackets, It will Speak it. |- | {} || F
> 1746914949 489060 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Flow14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157437 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+4958) 10Created page with "==Intro== Flow is an esolang created by [[User:helpeesl]] on 5/10/2025 ==Commands== The commands can be in many forms those being: *Two input forwards *Two input backwards *Two input neutral *One input forwards *One input backwards *One input neutral *Refrences *Others  1746915206 784139 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157438&oldid=157235 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+28) 10
> 1746915243 885523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Flow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157439&oldid=157437 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+15) 10Forgot about this
> 1746915434 975795 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157440&oldid=157438 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+56) 10
< 1746915927 842713 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7096:3eb3:2e24:9bff QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1746916938 33548 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1746917187 488669 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
> 1746917298 840024 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:Arch-based14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157441 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+22) 10Created page with "[[Category:Languages]]"
> 1746917347 149272 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:Arch-based14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157442&oldid=157441 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+52) 10
> 1746917395 451668 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Char14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157443&oldid=64658 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+24) 10
> 1746917448 585161 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Doug14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157444&oldid=64567 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+24) 10
> 1746917492 213195 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07An arch is simply a curve.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157445&oldid=74182 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+24) 10
> 1746917542 550526 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Force of Arch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157446&oldid=96902 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+23) 10
> 1746917756 250084 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157447&oldid=157440 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+27) 10Ill keep on adding the good stuff you forgot to give a category or removed
< 1746918161 415291 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1746918209 138018 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : `obj.myMethod()` maybe not okay, but `if isinstance(obj, MyClass): obj.myMethod()` works fine. ← I vaguely remember Java special-casing "if … instanceof …" like that when in checked mode (it doesn't treat it as a type system violation if you later use an unchecked cast)
< 1746918266 47104 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although I think there's an instanceof-alike that converts the type of an object reference to a derived class or returns null if it isn't of that type, making it possible to do an "if let" equivalent and avoiding the flow typing that way
< 1746918364 464974 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : hmm, has anyone made a esolangs compressed image format yet? ← https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/69930/paint-starry-night-objectively-in-1kb-of-code has a few
< 1746918901 42419 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hehe, ok
< 1746918946 975686 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"converts the type of an object reference to a derived class or returns null if it isn't of that type" => that's C++ dynamic_cast
< 1746919103 464886 :j4cbo!sid186930@id-186930.helmsley.irccloud.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1746919103 835136 :ManDeJan!3da94070ba@user/mandejan QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1746919104 211273 :ursa-major!114efe6c39@2a03:6000:1812:100::11f3 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1746919105 299331 :V!~v@ircpuzzles/2022/april/winner/V QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1746919475 962133 :j4cbo!sid186930@id-186930.helmsley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs j4cbo :j4cbo
< 1746919475 962371 :ManDeJan!3da94070ba@user/mandejan JOIN #esolangs ManDeJan :ManDeJan
< 1746919475 966822 :ursa-major!114efe6c39@2a03:6000:1812:100::11f3 JOIN #esolangs ursa-major :Bailey Bjornstad
< 1746919475 966890 :V!~v@ircpuzzles/2022/april/winner/V JOIN #esolangs V :Wie?
< 1746919611 904591 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: it makes sense – I think Rust might have something similar in Any, but it's kind-of rare to use Any in practice because it doesn't do what people normally want it to do
> 1746920169 761074 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157448&oldid=157447 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+20) 10They forgot a couple
< 1746920224 222659 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Those do not seem to be good (or discussed) categories. :/
> 1746920336 990747 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Category:Arch-based10]]": unapproved category  this isn't an established enough data structure to need its own category and would be better as a list on the Arch page
> 1746920346 149777 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:HQ9+ derivatives14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157449 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+51) 10Created page with "This contains a list of all derivatives of [[HQ9+]]"
> 1746920432 284592 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Category:Sus10]]": unapproved category: even if this is a useful enough set of languages to be worth categorising (but that needs discussion on [[Esolang talk:Categorization]]), the name is inappropriate
> 1746920523 52609 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07HQ9-14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157450&oldid=148330 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+29) 10
> 1746920542 435314 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157451&oldid=157448 5* 03Ais523 5* (-131) 10please do not add categories to this page without discussion  at least one clearly shouldn't exist, at least one but probably two are misnamed, and you added inappropriate commentary to the page in the process (the visible text on pages should not contain reference
> 1746920672 463202 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157452&oldid=157237 5* 03Ais523 5* (+477) 10/* Making Category:Accumulator-based official */ reasonable but misnamed, and maybe the wrong set of languages
> 1746920758 230217 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157453&oldid=157452 5* 03Ais523 5* (+377) 10/* Making Category:Accumulator-based official */ mention the counter-based languages proposal
> 1746921093 319990 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FHC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157454&oldid=118844 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+29) 10
> 1746921148 321698 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:HQ9+ derivative14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157455 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+54) 10Created page with "This is a list containing all [[HQ9+]] based languages"
> 1746921265 158538 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Category:HQ9+ derivative10]]": unapproved category
> 1746921299 135607 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Helpeesl 5*  10moved [[02Category:HQ9+ derivatives10]] to [[Category:]]: Ingas
> 1746921317 858553 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157458&oldid=157456 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (-51) 10Blanked the page
> 1746921354 464158 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:HQ9+ derivatives14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157459&oldid=157457 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+12) 10Changed redirect target from [[Category:]] to [[Category:HQ9+ derivative]]
> 1746921414 247625 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:HQ9+ derivative14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157460 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+50) 10Created page with "This page contains all languages based on [[HQ9+]]"
> 1746921425 778162 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Helpeesl14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157461 5* 03Ais523 5* (+880) 10please stop creating categories without approval
> 1746921459 230418 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Category:10]]": unapproved (and implausibly named) category
> 1746921468 225206 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Category:HQ9+ derivatives10]]": unapproved category
> 1746921473 360889 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Category:HQ9+ derivative10]]": unapproved category
> 1746921583 867523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Pifrited14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157462 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+772) 10Created page with "I wonder where's your C in the username. Shouldn't it be "Pifricted" instead of "Pifrited"? BTW Do you want a signature like mine? I can get one for you. --~~~~"
> 1746921967 595674 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Pifrited14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157463&oldid=157462 5* 03Ais523 5* (+403) 10r to ispltng
> 1746921982 416034 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157464&oldid=156778 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+20) 10
> 1746922155 635559 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:Sus14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157465 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+184) 10This is a reupload of a category that someone else made and was conspicuously missing from its place
> 1746922479 751343 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:Counter-based14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157466 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+139) 10Created page with "This is a list containing all counter based languages Also [[User:ais523]] suggested this so if the delete this that is a little bit ironic"
> 1746922505 806235 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dreadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157467&oldid=131043 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+26) 10
> 1746922659 566335 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LargeFish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157468&oldid=130583 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+26) 10
> 1746922912 297644 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[072Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157469&oldid=136379 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+27) 10
> 1746923185 461017 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:Counter-based14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157470&oldid=157466 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+70) 10
> 1746923479 706458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Feed the Chaos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157471&oldid=148151 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+27) 10
< 1746923790 542847 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Regarding class layouts: yes, if the class were still around at runtime then a checked mode is possible. RPython runs on a standard Python 2.7 interpreter for that purpose.
< 1746923847 899246 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :As one might suspect, nearly all of the class is erased at runtime. The class name .__class__.__name__ is the only thing available and that's mostly for generic pretty-printing.
> 1746923889 933705 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Helpeesl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157472&oldid=157461 5* 03Ais523 5* (+423) 10/* Please stop creating categories without approval */ you continued creating categories even though I asked you to stop
< 1746923950 282253 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, that may mean that Python erases classes more thoroughly than Java or Perl do
> 1746923975 355153 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:I am islptng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157473&oldid=157390 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+296) 10
< 1746924017 266564 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I usually think of RPython classes as like Haskell typeclasses, Rust traits, or C++ multiple-inheritance classes. RPython throws away any information that isn't relevant to the shape of the vtables.
> 1746924020 308538 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Category:Counter-based10]]": although this category should likely exist, this category description page is not useful  it doesn't precisely define which languages belong in the category and contains metacommentary  and leaving the description page up encourages people to categorise languages into it potentiall
< 1746924089 833971 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: ah, right – Java and Perl have a layer of indirection in which the object has a reference to the class and the class has the vtable
> 1746924106 907366 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:Sus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157474&oldid=157465 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+9) 10
< 1746924145 273495 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah. Whereas this is more like C++ casting. We can upcast so that an entire class hierarchy looks like a uniform algebraic data type, or we can downcast when we need to dig an instance variable out for a special case.
> 1746924154 334020 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Category:Sus10]]": still an unapproved category (with a bad name), recreated after deletion
< 1746924181 219093 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The object itself is a fat pointer, I think? So cool that I can just *say* that; twenty years ago, fat pointers would have been considered a horrendous waste.
> 1746924195 106603 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/protect14]]4 protect10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10protected "[[Category:Sus [create=sysop] (indefinite)]]": recreated after being deleted, not an appropriate name for a category
< 1746924256 200822 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I still don't have a good intuitive feel for the performance of fat pointers versus having a pointer from object to class
< 1746924284 688229 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the pointer-from-object-to-class will usually save memory because most objects have more than one reference and few have less than one reference, but it also introduces an extra layer of indirection
> 1746924291 136585 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157475&oldid=157464 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+22) 10
> 1746924309 530099 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157476&oldid=157475 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+0) 10
< 1746924365 351103 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah. Fat pointers might be more compelling if they offered some useful functionality. I find it very cool that we can change the class/traits of an object merely by replacing half of the fat pointer, and I know that Rust strings use this sort of optimization.
< 1746924422 339253 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But Smalltalk-style become: is really about the limit of what can be done that way. I think that it is a powerful way to have a system where objects are *inside* of another system which routes them; today there's Kafka and k8s, but I remember Zope and Twisted Axiom too.
> 1746924562 59388 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Aadenboy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157477&oldid=157425 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (-75) 10Qu'vatlh.
< 1746924607 822716 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement
> 1746924908 290946 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Free Esolang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157478&oldid=157025 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+109) 10
> 1746924983 223351 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157479&oldid=157453 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+694) 10/* There are categories that exist but arent on here */ new section
> 1746925140 915456 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UserEdited14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157480&oldid=156254 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+159) 10
> 1746925597 818768 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157481&oldid=157479 5* 03Ais523 5* (+573) 10/* There are categories that exist but arent on here */ how this happens
> 1746925688 835060 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Aadenboy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157482&oldid=157477 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+75) 10hey could you not do that
> 1746925805 864806 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157483&oldid=157481 5* 03Ais523 5* (+859) 10/* Proposed Category:Interpreter-modifying */ I don't think this is worth a category yet, but it may be in the future
> 1746925964 722766 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157484&oldid=157483 5* 03Ais523 5* (+562) 10/* Counter-based languages */ some thoughts about definition
> 1746926317 620338 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157485&oldid=157484 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+74) 10/* There are categories that exist but arent on here */
> 1746926531 98536 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157486&oldid=157485 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+89) 10This is my first time leaving a comment
> 1746926888 280966 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Helpeesl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157487&oldid=157472 5* 03Ais523 5* (+517) 10/* How to sign your comments */ new section
> 1746927139 499137 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157488&oldid=157147 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+493) 10/* I have a question about the unnoticed categories */ new section
> 1746927274 310994 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RainbowDash14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157489&oldid=157432 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (+0) 10
> 1746927552 478834 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157490&oldid=157488 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1444) 10/* I have a question about the unnoticed categories */ reply
< 1746928896 974660 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:880c:a961:240d:9720 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1746928925 741606 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:880c:a961:240d:9720 QUIT :Client Quit
> 1746929052 415042 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/Self-terminating powers14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157491 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+12754) 10interesting math thing I found
> 1746929078 406028 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Aadenboy 5*  10moved [[02User:Aadenboy/Self-terminating powers10]] to [[User:Aadenboy/Self-equaling squares]]: rename
< 1746929102 280925 :op_4!~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1746929106 811057 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157494&oldid=157428 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+41) 10/* anything else */ [[User:Aadenboy/Self-equaling powers]]
> 1746929125 305578 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157495&oldid=157494 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+1) 10/* anything else */
< 1746929132 31240 :op_4!~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473 JOIN #esolangs op_4 :op_4
> 1746931793 924581 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157496&oldid=157486 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+782) 10/* Poll about some potential new categories being added (ends June 1st) */ new section
> 1746932101 29511 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Flow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157497&oldid=157439 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+9) 10
< 1746934555 170266 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot PART #esolangs :Leaving
> 1746935365 633581 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157498&oldid=157496 5* 03Ais523 5* (+282) 10/* Poll about some potential new categories being added (ends June 1st) */ decisions are normally made by discussion, not polling
< 1746936123 177849 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1746936953 96268 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:I am islptng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157499&oldid=157473 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+726) 10???
> 1746937650 700976 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Pifrited14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157500&oldid=157463 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+278) 10
< 1746938737 513911 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron (they/them)
< 1746939430 73258 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38
> 1746939825 716568 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Pifrited14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157501&oldid=157500 5* 03Pifrited 5* (+195) 10
< 1746940432 796790 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1746940454 243719 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron (they/them)
> 1746941265 227574 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Aadenboy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157502&oldid=157482 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+89) 10VerdanaVerdana ProYu GothicDotum
> 1746942560 937441 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Aadenboy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157503&oldid=157502 5* 03Ais523 5* (-89) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/157502|157502]] by [[Special:Contributions/PrySigneToFry|PrySigneToFry]] ([[User talk:PrySigneToFry|talk]])  please don't restyle other peoples' user pages against their wishes
> 1746942625 729750 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Echo Tag14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157504&oldid=115682 5* 03Ais523 5* (+25) 10/* See also */ +[[Symmetric Echo Tag]]
< 1746942689 55468 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1746944466 622347 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:880c:a961:240d:9720 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1746945769 175616 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:880c:a961:240d:9720 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1746946313 615014 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:880c:a961:240d:9720 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1746948896 450579 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:880c:a961:240d:9720 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1746950881 506360 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Indicode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157505&oldid=151699 5* 03Gilbert189 5* (-59) 10wow I had no idea what this is supposed to mean
< 1746953422 444203 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1746954258 641096 :razetime!~quassel@49.207.228.134 QUIT :Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.
< 1746955280 975661 :visilii_!~visilii@213.24.132.63 JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1746955324 596034 :visilii!~visilii@85.94.26.146 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
> 1746955579 407299 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Aadenboy/Self-equaling squares14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157506 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+618) 10Created page with "Looking at things a bit closer, I think I can see a more specific pattern. The amount of self-equaling squares for a base seems to be $2^\{\backslash omega(n)\}$, where $\backslash omega(n)$ is the number of unique prime factors Staxueue is an esolang created by islptng. It has a stack-cross-queue (staxueue, or sxq for short).  == The Stack-Cross-Queue == It's just, literally, a stack crossing a queue.  Let's visualize it.        a        b        c  1 2 3 4 5 6 7        d   
< 1747114935 826250 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Among other things, it uses XML and Unicode, and seems difficult to use customizable security and proxies.)
< 1747115125 794219 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1747115478 383909 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(D-bus does have authentication, but I think this isn't the best way to do it. I think requiring strings to be UTF-8 and requiring them to be validated can also be problems, especially since a file name or other text might not be Unicode, and the validation takes time. I also do not like the working of object paths. There are other problems, too.)
< 1747117515 536650 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(It does have some benefits though, such as using a binary format.)
< 1747119164 794157 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1747125689 796328 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157619&oldid=157583 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-3) 10
< 1747130961 294801 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi
> 1747132498 883374 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Europe204814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157620&oldid=134409 5* 03Europe2048 5* (+68) 10
> 1747132966 778104 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Braindead14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157621&oldid=157580 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-531) 10/* Useful techniques */
< 1747134050 978696 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname
> 1747135229 165921 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Braindead14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157622&oldid=157621 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-11) 10/* Techniques */
> 1747138174 946765 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bear14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157623&oldid=151375 5* 03Headless-Axolotl 5* (+85) 10changed table formatting
> 1747138820 992606 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Underchaos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157624&oldid=157586 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+202) 10
> 1747141161 204558 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157625&oldid=157616 5* 03H33T33 5* (+119) 10
< 1747142047 225247 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:b824:6ff8:e6cb:f4c JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
< 1747142358 236566 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:b824:6ff8:e6cb:f4c QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1747143117 969320 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codesick14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157626 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+570) 10Created page with "{{WIP}}  '''Codesick''' (''COncatenate, DEreference and StrIng-cheCK'') is an esolang by [[User:TBPO]] when they was sick from coding too long. It's an [[OISC]], but instead of bits or numbers, there are... strings.  == Memory ==  There is an infinie namespace
> 1747143931 454155 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codesick14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157627&oldid=157626 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+547) 10
> 1747146935 743893 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157628&oldid=157606 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+452) 10
> 1747147065 675894 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157629&oldid=157628 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-32) 10
< 1747147602 337002 :ajal!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname
< 1747147634 957083 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
> 1747148064 760273 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157630&oldid=157619 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+0) 10
> 1747148957 520411 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157631&oldid=157625 5* 03H33T33 5* (+113) 10
> 1747149396 425531 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157632&oldid=157631 5* 03H33T33 5* (+166) 10
> 1747149467 932440 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157633&oldid=157632 5* 03H33T33 5* (-52) 10
> 1747149505 586399 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157634&oldid=157633 5* 03H33T33 5* (+0) 10
> 1747150372 357163 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157635&oldid=157634 5* 03H33T33 5* (+159) 10
< 1747150711 219344 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:b824:6ff8:e6cb:f4c JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
< 1747152973 89520 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :cu
> 1747156136 739833 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157636&oldid=157635 5* 03H33T33 5* (+154) 10
> 1747156731 500563 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157637&oldid=157636 5* 03H33T33 5* (+74) 10
< 1747157916 965404 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:b824:6ff8:e6cb:f4c QUIT :Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)
> 1747158097 404377 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Infinite golfing14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157638&oldid=157591 5* 03JORE 5* (+154) 10
< 1747161001 221438 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:b824:6ff8:e6cb:f4c JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
> 1747161723 79748 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codesick14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157639&oldid=157627 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+1356) 10
> 1747161866 819224 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codesick14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157640&oldid=157639 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-59) 10
> 1747161960 736840 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codesick14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157641&oldid=157640 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-2) 10/* Instruction */
> 1747162024 756206 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codesick14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157642&oldid=157641 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+4) 10/* Computational class */
> 1747162076 309263 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157643&oldid=157598 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+15) 10/* My esolangs */
< 1747163544 904711 :visilii_!~visilii@213.24.132.63 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1747163813 820415 :visilii!~visilii@85.94.27.220 JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1747164433 827263 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:b824:6ff8:e6cb:f4c QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1747164672 740349 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OISC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157644&oldid=156733 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+200) 10/* List of OISCs */
> 1747164769 987917 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OISC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157645&oldid=157644 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-2) 10/* List of OISCs */
> 1747165147 42414 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hito14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157646&oldid=150449 5* 03TheCanon2 5* (+8) 10Proofreading
> 1747165327 226976 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codesick14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157647&oldid=157642 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+1) 10/* Computational class */
< 1747171089 521826 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sprout: Oh, BTW, please make sure that anything generated by ChatGPT is copyright-free before adding it to the wiki. In general, I'd recommend *writing your own words* rather than relying on a generative tool to write for you.
< 1747171131 674102 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The policy's documented at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Copyrights
< 1747172176 389583 :sprout!~sprout@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :all my stuff on the wiki predates popular llms
< 1747174018 914693 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1747174066 942031 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1747174273 922414 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1747174790 148835 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1747176174 168462 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1747176186 847935 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1747176260 263262 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1747181891 60175 :ajal!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement
> 1747188072 208864 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157648&oldid=157637 5* 03H33T33 5* (+448) 10
> 1747188740 144633 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157649&oldid=157648 5* 03H33T33 5* (+27) 10
> 1747195490 149059 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mlatu-614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157650&oldid=157421 5* 03Zhil 5* (+26) 10
< 1747196341 108985 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1747196509 147802 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :Hooloovoo
< 1747205802 636116 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1747209017 720283 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:JIT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157651&oldid=156870 5* 03JIT 5* (+70) 10
> 1747209904 192514 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Anti-Machine language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157652&oldid=157560 5* 03JIT 5* (+58) 10
> 1747210141 609977 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Print "deadfish"14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157653&oldid=63956 5* 03JIT 5* (+4) 10
< 1747212159 555302 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi *
< 1747215175 813884 :sprout!~sprout@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hello ?
> 1747216479 954769 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157654&oldid=148509 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+0) 10
< 1747219751 366640 :gry!~gry@botters/gry PRIVMSG #esolangs :sprout: hi
> 1747220971 669382 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OISC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157655&oldid=157645 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+53) 10/* List of OISCs */
< 1747221611 455867 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
> 1747222322 192495 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157656&oldid=147340 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+133) 10/* Hi */ new section
> 1747223129 269327 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Underchaos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157657&oldid=157624 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+494) 10
> 1747223287 869800 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Underchaos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157658&oldid=157657 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+1) 10
> 1747223390 813262 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Underchaos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157659&oldid=157658 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+16) 10/* Execution */
> 1747223599 273430 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157660&oldid=157643 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+1) 10/* Users */
> 1747223653 179048 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157661&oldid=157660 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+3) 10/* Users */
> 1747225541 969157 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Irma14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157662 5* 03Neon 5* (+15698) 10Created page with "'''''"Nothing ain't there. -Nicholas L."''''' ==Introduction== [[File:Irma Logo.png|frame|right|Original logo of Irma, circa 2025. Made by Irma's creator, Nicholas.]] {{infobox proglang |name=Irma Arnold |paradigms=Functional |author=[[User:Neon]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025
> 1747225594 524532 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Irma14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157663&oldid=157662 5* 03Neon 5* (+30) 10
> 1747225636 619079 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Irma14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157664&oldid=157663 5* 03Neon 5* (+1) 10
> 1747225672 46669 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Irma14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157665&oldid=157664 5* 03Neon 5* (+0) 10
> 1747226115 826846 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Irma14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157666&oldid=157665 5* 03Neon 5* (+174) 10
> 1747226148 145265 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Irma14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157667&oldid=157666 5* 03Neon 5* (+0) 10
> 1747226174 715108 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Irma14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157668&oldid=157667 5* 03Neon 5* (+1) 10
> 1747226291 509301 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Irma14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157669&oldid=157668 5* 03Neon 5* (+121) 10
> 1747227714 38464 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157670&oldid=157594 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+37) 10
> 1747229672 217774 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codesick14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157671&oldid=157647 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+706) 10
< 1747231202 220265 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1747231732 168971 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`unidecode º
< 1747231734 154898 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​[U+00BA MASCULINE ORDINAL INDICATOR]
< 1747231875 451984 :sprout!~sprout@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :wasdah?
< 1747231956 89613 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :somebody used that instead of ° elsewhere and I wondered what that symbol is
< 1747231989 234620 :sprout!~sprout@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it's a remnant from latin numerals
< 1747232016 99306 :sprout!~sprout@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Xº to denote it's a number
< 1747232036 560906 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, I've seen people make that mistake.
> 1747232122 408477 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157672&oldid=157656 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+279) 10
> 1747232150 207894 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157673&oldid=157672 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-149) 10
< 1747232212 162307 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :probably because in some fonts they look similar
< 1747232488 113207 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's easy to remember: in iso-8859-1 the middle dot "·" that stands for multiplication has code 0xB7 which is 0x20 less than the code of the multiplication sign "×" which is 0xD7, the degrees sign "°" has code 0xB0 because it looks kind of like a superscript zero, superscript 2 "²" has code 0xB2, superscript 3 "³" has code 0xB3, and
< 1747232488 612632 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :superscript 1 "¹" who cares nobody uses that characters anyway.
> 1747232741 246944 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:I am islptng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157674&oldid=157517 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+320) 10
> 1747232970 691960 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157675&oldid=155316 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-27) 10
< 1747233822 11484 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1747235095 928588 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hotcrystal0/CGoL+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157676&oldid=154959 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+10) 10
> 1747237364 980279 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Irma14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157677 5* 03Neon 5* (+688) 10Created page with "There's something different about programming as the soft tapping of water crinkles outside. The room is illuminated, but dead in a dim grey. The chatter of the keyboard syncs with the orchestra of rain flowing down the gutter, spewing out onto the ground. The wind blows 
> 1747238995 676290 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Neon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157678&oldid=156485 5* 03Neon 5* (-233) 10
> 1747239835 154857 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Irma14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157679&oldid=157669 5* 03Neon 5* (+717) 10
> 1747239981 642671 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Neon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157680&oldid=157678 5* 03Neon 5* (+29) 10
> 1747240145 794868 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Irma14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157681&oldid=157679 5* 03Neon 5* (+44) 10
> 1747240383 816181 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Irma14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157682&oldid=157681 5* 03Neon 5* (+156) 10
< 1747240830 209242 :Neon!~Neon@m83-188-102-93.cust.tele2.lt JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Neon
< 1747240853 937874 :Neon!~Neon@m83-188-102-93.cust.tele2.lt NICK :Guest7594
< 1747240943 602670 :Guest7594!~Neon@m83-188-102-93.cust.tele2.lt QUIT :Client Quit
> 1747242659 893112 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[079D brainfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157683 5* 03JORE 5* (+869) 10Created page with "== 9D Brainfuck ==  '''9D Brainfuck''' is a esolang of fun modification of brainfuck. It have fake commands added.  === Commands: === {| class="wikitable" |+  |- ! Command !! Action/Brainfuck |- | + || + |- | - || - |- | > || > |- | < || < |- | [ || [ |- | ] || ] |- | 
> 1747243098 580965 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreterion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157684&oldid=157561 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+118) 10
> 1747243210 880907 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreterion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157685&oldid=157684 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+62) 10/* Rapid growth */
> 1747243253 579934 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreterion14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157686&oldid=157685 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+2) 10/* Rapid growth */
< 1747243802 117695 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :cu
> 1747244079 281407 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Impossible to quine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157687 5* 03JORE 5* (+349) 10Created page with "== Impossible to quine ==  '''Impossible to quine''' is a esolang which you cannot quine in it. Normally the output is '''I won't allow you to quine'''. If your code be '''I won't allow you to quine''', it will output '''Sorry, you cannot quine.'''  === Quine (i
> 1747245221 225385 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Hakerh400/How to write quines14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157688 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+182) 10Created page with "Thank you, [[User:Hakerh400]]! I made [[Parenthesys#Quine|my first quine]] using your manual! ~~~~"
> 1747246037 287658 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07;;;*++14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157689&oldid=157328 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+19) 10
> 1747250739 766558 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157690&oldid=157670 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+229) 10
> 1747252435 3651 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157691&oldid=157690 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+14) 10
> 1747252850 179311 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157692&oldid=157691 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+146) 10/* 1 */
> 1747254759 616663 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Henry 5*  10New user account
< 1747254830 150079 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname
< 1747256035 220593 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:184:8e0:b5fb:a34d JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
< 1747256383 67431 :op_4!~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1747257212 975867 :op_4!~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473 JOIN #esolangs op_4 :op_4
< 1747257763 841064 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1747257943 806186 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, the wiki is being very unresponsive: is it under pressure from scraperbots again?
< 1747257966 207118 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:184:8e0:b5fb:a34d QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1747258041 442780 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157693&oldid=157617 5* 03Ais523 5* (+712) 10/* Movie */ what happened and why I haven't cleaned it up yet
< 1747258186 795615 :FreeFull!~freefull@79.186.68.86.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull
< 1747258437 362754 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: sprout: I think ª and º are like a superscript "th" for making numbers into ordinals (i.e. they make 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 into 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th), but gendered (for languages in which adjectives have gendered) – probably specifically for Spanish
< 1747258449 555603 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* in which adjectives have genders
< 1747258497 882132 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can see an example at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/primero#Spanish
< 1747258504 855827 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which says that "
< 1747258520 342310 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* which says that "1.º" and "1.ª" are alternative forms of "primero" and "primera"
< 1747258528 443252 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(both meaning "first")
< 1747258774 258281 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :on my keyboard, ª is altgr-shift-f and º is altgr-shift-m, presumably for "female/feminine" and "male/masculine"
< 1747259968 218646 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:e93f:66b3:6eac:7b8a JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
< 1747260688 415494 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1747262560 52738 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1747262573 829617 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1747262654 548473 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1747264093 405813 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1747264171 801372 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1747264175 212486 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1747264485 177658 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs SGautam :Siddharth Gautam
< 1747264753 306382 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1747264787 644633 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1747266723 676179 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement
< 1747267227 766474 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina JOIN #esolangs Lykaina :Lykaina
< 1747267301 836208 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :is esolangs.org down?
< 1747267404 321010 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Looks that way; ais523 also mentioned it a few hours ago.
< 1747267472 205341 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not quite down but under so much load you can hardly get through
< 1747267483 382386 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah. I haven't gotten through yet.
< 1747267489 829713 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess someone ought to ping fizzie, but I strongly suspect this is scraperbots that need blocking rather than an actual site problem
< 1747267501 354838 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and fizzie may well be asleep)
< 1747267511 742241 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'd assume he's asleep, yeah
< 1747267734 719530 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, again.
< 1747267753 456652 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or not
< 1747267766 670639 :molson!~molson@2001:48f8:7040::1593 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1747267789 670482 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's getting ~95% 4xx errors, but I guess they're slow and/or expensive 4xx's this time.
< 1747267790 993958 :molson!~molson@2001:48f8:7040::1593 JOIN #esolangs molson :realname
< 1747267831 483481 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe there's a common URL pattern that could be blocked (especially if the pages are guaranteed to not exist so there's no purpose for a human visiting them)
< 1747267959 862723 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i'm logged in
< 1747268258 106855 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's not really super-obvious this time, from the logs. Here's a 30-second sample of URLs only: https://zem.fi/tmp/urls.txt
< 1747268304 958359 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Special:RecentChangesLinked" probably being the expensive operation.
< 1747268373 474963 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh yes – I'm not even sure if that one is indexed
< 1747268444 614890 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: parameter order works for this one, the wiki's provided links to RecentChangesLinked put the title at the start, not the end
< 1747268517 915848 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in fact, this bot appears to be alphabetising URL parameter order even in cases where that changes the meaning of the URL
< 1747268546 464492 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :such as with returnto= (where an & after the = does not introduce a new parameter but rather is part of the URL being returned to)
< 1747268608 340203 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess it's probably a misguided attempt to avoid crawling the same page twice (without realising that many of the parameters may not significantly change the page being crawled)
< 1747268613 954422 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :really? wouldn't it be quoted as %26?
< 1747268652 335755 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> chr 0x26
< 1747268653 578372 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : '&'
< 1747268689 479189 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm. Well, those requests ended on their own ~15 minutes ago, and the load also does seem to have dropped from flat 100% down to ~60% (and the wiki answers to me now), so maybe it's not entirely down any more.
< 1747268703 353091 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: actually there seems to be a different form of quoting: https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=The+Waterfall+Model&returntoquery=action%3Dedit
< 1747268799 89658 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, these aren't all alphabetised, just most of them – maybe two different bots, or one bot + legitimate humans
< 1747268824 291101 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's the login link from https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=The_Waterfall_Model&action=edit
< 1747268835 504273 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(when not logged in)
< 1747268848 504887 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Related changes is a link on the sidebar for (almost) every page, and I know I've clicked on it by accident a few times when I meant Recent changes. 
< 1747268853 381718 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: right
< 1747268873 222970 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :related changes is theoretically useful in niche circumstances but I don't use it very often
< 1747268899 203278 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I personally don't think I ever used Related changes legitimately, but it may be useful for others
< 1747268900 962460 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think I've intentionally used it (to solve a problem rather than to test how it works) something like once or twice in my life, and only at Wikipedia
< 1747268930 623123 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's most useful on categories, e.g. I think I've used it on Wikipedia's esolang category to see changes to esolang articles
< 1747268938 9799 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but then I use other weird tools that other people may think is useful only in niche cases
< 1747268970 203563 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it would probably be reasonable to restrict this sort of expensive query to logged-in users, but I'm not sure how difficult that is to configure
< 1747269066 50575 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I can't remember ever using that feature.
< 1747269067 969275 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in any case, a simple regex block on title=Special:RecentChangesLinked and title=Special%3ARecentChangesLinked (the dump contains both, oddly) might be enough
< 1747269073 461579 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, not at the start of the URL
< 1747269084 321703 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the start of the relevant portion of the URL0
< 1747269110 369973 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but I can see that it's right there under "Tools" so a crawler would obviously pick that up)
< 1747269111 513304 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've added some ad-hoc filters, do let me know if you run into unexpected 503s as part of real use.
< 1747269141 855405 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Someone also pointed me at a MediaWiki extension that can allegedly restrict specific special pages to logged-in users.
< 1747269148 873979 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :OK, thanks for the attention
< 1747269160 452657 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: right, there are a whole lot of hits on the "create account" page with different return-to URLs, too
< 1747269230 102704 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Specifically, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Lockdown -- which has a setting that "allows you to specify for each special page which user groups have access to it". I'll consider adding that extension when I next update MediaWiki, which should probably be soonishly anyway.)
< 1747269232 881537 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, I think this bot may be randomising whether or not to escape query parameters
< 1747269443 272676 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :From what I've heard, this sort of thing (nonsensical, resource-intensive antisocial crawling) has been happening to all kinds of "small" websites, like the Debian bug tracker's query functionality has apparently been non-functional due to it.
< 1747269524 516454 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes – I'm a member of a webforum who was hit by it
< 1747269575 195854 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it's not just small websites too, but larger ones as well (although they're more easily able to absorb the load)
< 1747269787 778243 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :apparently it also bothers "small" websites like github: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/159123
< 1747269879 944496 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's also rather more traffic than I'd expect from real users to various "Special:WhatLinksHere" pages, but those have less obvious patterns because sometimes it's a /w/index.php URL, while other times it's a "/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/" one, and the latter one's probably the same a real user would use.
< 1747270000 772592 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think WhatLinksHere is just an index lookup, at least (whereas RecentChangesLinked probably needs a join)
< 1747270099 71902 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I use WhatLinksHere much more often than RecentChangesLinked, at least – although it's still fairly rare (most commonly I use it to check inbound links when deleting a page, although I am often willing to just let them turn red)
< 1747270337 873310 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :What I tried to do on my own computer is to set up port knocking for the HTTP server (and only for the HTTP server), due to this excessive badly behaved scraping.
< 1747270409 420517 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :However, the extension you mention for MediaWiki might be suitable if you only need to block access to some special pages rather than everything, I suppose.
< 1747270484 735674 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, it looks like the performance is okay-ish now, so maybe that'll help kick the can down the road some. It's still a persistent 50% CPU load and ~6 qps, so I'm sure it's still 99+% bots, which is a shame, but at least it's maybe not preventing real visitors.
< 1747270796 870071 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I use What links here occasionally regularly. 
< 1747270809 515629 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/regularly/for a legitimate purpose/
< 1747271114 485145 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I also sometimes use "What links here"
< 1747271905 942937 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:e93f:66b3:6eac:7b8a QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1747272986 284792 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think port knocking doesn't work well for a public website because even if you tell people the knock sequence, most people wouldn't be able to enter it correctly
< 1747273107 561970 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :what is port knocking?
< 1747273428 828580 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: so when you make a network connection to a computer (typically a server), the connection request contains a number (the "port number") that specifies what program you want to connect to; in theory it could be anything, but various protocols have standard numbers so that you don't need to specify the number (e.g. mailservers use port 25 to communicate with each other and web browsers use 80 for http or 443 for https)
< 1747273448 921131 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :port knocking is when you make a series of connections to the same computer and use the port numbers like you're entering a password
< 1747273460 824568 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it's just an arbitrary sequence of numbers that you have to find out
< 1747273487 114913 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and a server that requires port knocking will reject all the connections until you connect with the right sequence of port numbers, and only then will it accept the connection
< 1747273547 558892 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's basically a way to do the equivalent of a login sequence, but at a lower level than typical password entry forms, i.e. it's done while forming the connection, before the program that will eventually accept the connection even sees it
< 1747273590 783472 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Classically, you make the sequence not monotonically increasing (and/or add ports that will immediately fail it) to prevent a linear port scans (are those even a thing anymore?) from accidentally passing the knock sequence.
< 1747273647 85489 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :port scans are definitely still a thing, although I think that nowadays the primariy legitimate use is in attempts to detect systems that have been infected by malware and have more ports open than they should as a consequence
< 1747273660 721421 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure whether they're typically linear – there's no particular reason to port scan in any particular order
< 1747273685 233059 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I kind-of assumed that you'd implement it so that any port that wasn't the next one in the sequence would cause you to have to start again from the start
< 1747273984 133412 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Wikipedia points out that port knocking is usually vulnerable to replay attacks, so it's harder to secure than password authentication would be
< 1747274102 921153 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The port-knocking scheme I use for SSH involves having to attempt a TCP connection with a specific MSS value, which seems to work okay in practice, and has the benefit that the "knock" can happen on the same port as the service, meaning it's usually affected by the same firewall rules as the actual connection would be.
< 1747274136 993447 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: ah, one-port knocking to get through firewalls, that makes sense as security through obscurity
< 1747274160 102456 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was thinking that maybe the best alternative would be to have some sort of authentication service running on a known port which you could send passwords to securely, and then it would open some other port for you
< 1747274324 368183 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :what if the port knock sequence is one of those codes that change every 30 sec
< 1747274366 58076 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :using 10 ports, for digits 0-9
< 1747274378 142137 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :and 6 knocks
< 1747274403 392249 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yep, you can do that sort of thing if you want to
< 1747274411 211059 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The MSS thing can be implemented in nftables rules, so it doesn't require a separate (arguably potentially vulnerable, though it could be very minimal) piece of software.
< 1747274415 515338 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(would still be vulnerable to replay attacks unless you only accepted each code once)
< 1747274696 754660 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(A fixed sequence of regular knocks, or even detecting a password in the knock packet, can also be done in firewall rules. Decoding any kind of OTP... well, I hear BPF is quite powerful.)
< 1747275124 689451 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :what is BPF?
< 1747275284 870195 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a non-Turing-complete programming language originally designed to implement firewalls
< 1747275302 122773 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although it later got massively extended and sort-of became a different language, eBPF
< 1747275354 723428 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it might qualify as an esolang, but is perhaps too practically useful for that
< 1747275565 941040 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but BPF and eBPF became the languages for when a kernel interface wants to accept a function/procedure as an argument, and run it in kernel mode rather than calling back into a usermode process – you translate the function into BPF/eBPF and the kernel runs it for you
< 1747277309 684142 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1747279047 3747 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1747281251 314368 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1747283943 15054 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just had one port number to allow access for a limited time, and one lower port number and one higher port number both of which will lock out the access until the correct port number is knocked again. The intention was not security or secrecy, but to prevent excessive load by excessive access by badly behaved automated programs. I did not want to stop anyone from using curl, Lynx, etc.
> 1747285761 606098 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Thue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157694&oldid=155022 5* 03Dadsdy 5* (+66) 10/* External resources */
< 1747288227 222592 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:e93f:66b3:6eac:7b8a JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
> 1747288570 587772 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157695&oldid=148510 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+44) 10
> 1747289986 635749 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157696 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+1753) 10Created page with "'''Logica''' is an esolang for a 2-bit CPU created by Cole. There is no input/output.  The CPU has four 2-bit registers.  A typical instruction (all the variables are bits):  aa bb cc dddd ee  ==The breakdown of the instr
> 1747290774 360770 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157697&oldid=157696 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+19) 10
> 1747290786 599075 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157698&oldid=157697 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (-27) 10
> 1747291691 50397 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157699&oldid=157698 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+79) 10
< 1747291747 768049 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:e93f:66b3:6eac:7b8a QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1747291951 974210 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1747292227 929810 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157700&oldid=157699 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+1934) 10
> 1747292307 922625 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157701&oldid=157700 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (-33) 10
> 1747292331 10549 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157702&oldid=157701 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+2) 10
< 1747301934 791966 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi
> 1747302338 556535 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157703&oldid=157661 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+0) 10/* Users */
> 1747302878 252179 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157704 5* 03JIT 5* (+17) 10Redirected page to [[]]
> 1747303531 472601 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157705&oldid=157692 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-277) 10
> 1747305344 774002 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157706 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+967) 10Created page with "{{WIP}}  '''Hakerh''' is an esolang by [[User:TBPO]] that imitates [[User:Hakerh400]]'s esolangs. I made a timestamp below to mark where my transformation into Hakerh400 begun:  ~~~  == Syntax ==  The program consists of function definitions: f(X) = Y Where uppe
> 1747305399 649421 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157707&oldid=157706 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-40) 10
> 1747308652 623154 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157708&oldid=157451 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-106) 10/* Input/output capabilities */
> 1747308740 263894 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157709&oldid=157707 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+1433) 10
> 1747308844 136622 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157710&oldid=157703 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+20) 10
> 1747309133 942753 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157711&oldid=157709 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+0) 10
> 1747309161 857818 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157712&oldid=157711 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+0) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/157711|157711]] by [[Special:Contributions/TenBillionPlusOne|TenBillionPlusOne]] ([[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne|talk]])
> 1747309479 123525 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OLNMLNE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157713&oldid=101202 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+8) 10
< 1747309611 531284 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Heh, want to the GCC bug tracker (there's a documentation mistake that I've been aware for at least a decade that I never get around reporting, and probably won't this time either), and it flashed that Anubis thing briefly, so I guess they've also had problems with scrapers.
> 1747309614 416885 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157714&oldid=157559 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+21) 10/* I */
< 1747309645 243174 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://github.com/TecharoHQ/anubis <- this thing.
> 1747309683 47978 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157715&oldid=157714 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+15) 10/* C */
> 1747309707 893814 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157716&oldid=157715 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+17) 10/* U */
> 1747309774 953275 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157717&oldid=157716 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+48) 10/* H */
< 1747309850 354452 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I'm sure it is very effective, but it also requires clients to execute JS, which pretty much disqualifies it instantly.)
< 1747310346 758550 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't even know if they expect docs bugs through the bug tracker. The "gcc" product has a "web" component, described as "There is an error or omission on the Web pages", but most issues in it aren't about the manual. And there isn't a "doc" or "manual" component or anything similar.
> 1747310597 737659 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157718&oldid=157712 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+21) 10/* Examples */
> 1747310634 426866 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157719&oldid=157718 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-204) 10/* Examples temp */
< 1747310891 256865 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1747310951 249658 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: which book from among the manuals, as in the titles listed at https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/ ? the main GCC Manual or some other one?
< 1747311181 41898 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also do you have a patch or just a bug report?
> 1747311195 129791 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157720&oldid=157673 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+306) 10
> 1747311232 148122 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157721&oldid=157720 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-164) 10
> 1747311246 395605 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157722&oldid=157721 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+2) 10
> 1747311262 108739 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Micron Turi-Complete Aembly Lauage14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157723 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+5355) 10Created page with "Micron Turi-Complete Aembly Lauage(Micron Turing-Complete Assembly Language, MTCASM for short) is designed by PSTF, based on Assembly Language of Windows, and [[X-ASM]] by the same author.  = Prologue = MTCASM is a Turing-Complete, Stron
> 1747311312 794282 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157724&oldid=157717 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+47) 10
< 1747311410 626066 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't find any instructions on how to report documentation bugs without a patch.
< 1747311453 570471 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've reported a compiler bug for gcc but that was many years ago, never reported a doc bug for gcc.
> 1747311528 806692 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157725&oldid=157582 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+29) 10
< 1747311747 37310 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
< 1747311971 497068 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The main one, and I don't have a patch because I don't really want to make a judgement call on what to write instead.
< 1747311978 209478 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The problem is in https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Zero-Length.html and it's... well, this: https://zem.fi/tmp/fam.txt
< 1747312074 322530 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh heck, zero length array. I think the gcc devs wish they could go back in time and change that feature to never have existed in gcc, but they also can't remove it now because the linux kernel or some other programs depend on it too much.
< 1747312095 103180 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, it's not really about zero-length arrays as such, it's about the standard mechanism (flexible array members).
> 1747312856 675308 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157726&oldid=157719 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+503) 10/* Examples */
> 1747312918 863395 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157727&oldid=157726 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+0) 10/* SKI Calculus */
> 1747313446 330696 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157728&oldid=157727 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-6) 10/* Basic relations */
< 1747313884 220806 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: hmm, that does look like the doc is misleading
< 1747313954 935831 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
> 1747313964 699896 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157729&oldid=157728 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+393) 10
< 1747313973 647038 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( the bigger scandal is that this is an extension )
> 1747314166 417938 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157730&oldid=157722 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+123) 10
< 1747314234 210122 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Can you even work around this reliably? I mean, sure, you can define a copy of the struct with a concrete length for the array and initialize that, then cast things around. But couldn't the alignment of that final field depend on its size?
< 1747314290 246997 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I seem to recall that offsets are only guaranteed to be equal if the field types up to that point (including the field itself) are equal.
> 1747314399 781047 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UNBABTIZED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157731&oldid=38968 5* 03Tpaefawzen 5* (+1217) 10
< 1747314506 677712 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: no. (1) we have C99 flexible arrays instead of the extension. (2) it's too late to add true zero-size objects to either C or C++, they'd break too much existing code, and zero-length arrays would break even more. (3) there's now a C++ attribute to help with the most common use case for when you would want zero-sized objects, which is when
< 1747314507 176934 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :one of the members of a struct is empty (as in padding only but not technically zero-sizeof) then it can overlap with other members of the same struct if you add the right C++ attribute from a recent C++ standard. (the previous workaround was to use a base instead of a member). (4) the other common use case is passing an empty (not zero sized)
< 1747314507 677619 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :struct to a function as argument. under the x86 ABI, if the struct is trivial then such a struct is already eliminated and doesn't consume any registers, so there's no run-time overhead.
< 1747314522 658301 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry, I mean the xi6_64 gcc ABI, not the x86_32 ABI
< 1747314690 756836 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1747315192 46917 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: have you tried to ask in #gcc on libera?
< 1747315210 920471 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :they might know how to submit doc bug reports
> 1747315308 822817 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UNBABTIZED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157732&oldid=157731 5* 03Tpaefawzen 5* (+336) 10
> 1747315349 226998 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UNBABTIZED14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157733&oldid=157732 5* 03Tpaefawzen 5* (+25) 10/* External resources */
< 1747316558 392327 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1747316581 971852 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron (they/them)
< 1747318040 598815 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1747318159 821811 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157734&oldid=157649 5* 03H33T33 5* (+2) 10
> 1747318372 363429 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Neon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157735&oldid=157680 5* 03Neon 5* (-258) 10/* Neon */
> 1747318550 256948 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Neon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157736&oldid=157735 5* 03Neon 5* (+0) 10/* Neon */
> 1747318734 823058 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157737&oldid=157734 5* 03H33T33 5* (+43) 10
> 1747318824 376537 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H33T3314]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157738&oldid=156989 5* 03H33T33 5* (+37) 10
< 1747319518 219868 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:e93f:66b3:6eac:7b8a JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
< 1747321827 201838 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1747322089 319926 :lynndotpy6!~rootcanal@134.122.123.70 JOIN #esolangs lynndotpy :lynn
< 1747322099 132255 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron (they/them)
< 1747322118 226303 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:e93f:66b3:6eac:7b8a QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1747322121 47741 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1747322325 147787 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/bowserinator QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1747322372 160493 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/bowserinator JOIN #esolangs Bowserinator :No VPS :(
< 1747323191 186532 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1747323200 434853 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157739&oldid=157729 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+16) 10
< 1747323387 598562 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN #esolangs APic :A. Pic. - my name since YOLD 3149
< 1747323467 451273 :gry!~gry@chris-amadeus.bnr.la JOIN #esolangs * :gry
< 1747323692 152012 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in
> 1747323899 444938 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I/M Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157740&oldid=157306 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+38) 10
> 1747324014 834688 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07;;;*++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157741&oldid=157689 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+19) 10
> 1747324103 445498 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreterion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157742&oldid=157686 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+45) 10
< 1747324146 190660 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1747324165 220475 :impomatic!~impomatic@host109-153-26-231.range109-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
< 1747325543 163970 :impomatic!~impomatic@host109-153-26-231.range109-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1747325778 752635 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157743&oldid=157399 5* 03H33T33 5* (-7598) 10
> 1747325888 287140 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple/Source Code14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157744 5* 03H33T33 5* (+7803) 10Created page with "[[Topple| Back to Topple]]  ''Disclaimer: The current source file is bugged. The fixed file will be added ASAP'' ==Source Code== [[Topple/Source_Code|C Source Code]] 
#include  #include  #include  #include  #include  1747325996 596517 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/Live stats14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157745 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+3755) 10Created page with "
 
 1747326969 471509 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Irma14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157749&oldid=157682 5* 03Neon 5* (+402) 10
> 1747327277 511940 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157750&oldid=157705 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-224) 10
< 1747327724 902241 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1747327747 694882 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron (they/them)
> 1747328348 203311 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157751&oldid=157750 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+468) 10
< 1747328692 633178 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1747329347 144592 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157752&oldid=157599 5* 03Henry 5* (+256) 10/* Introductions */
> 1747329365 25730 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PNPL14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157753 5* 03Henry 5* (+5560) 10Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Prime Number Programming Language |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:Henry]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |typesys= |memsys=[[:Category:Cell-based|Cell-based]] |dimensions=one-dimensional |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |refim
> 1747329624 492661 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PNPL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157754&oldid=157753 5* 03Henry 5* (+0) 10
< 1747329625 789943 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1747330136 557349 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157755&oldid=157751 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-439) 10
< 1747330362 220040 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:e93f:66b3:6eac:7b8a JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
> 1747330607 682944 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157756&oldid=157755 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+225) 10
> 1747330822 897618 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157757&oldid=157710 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+48) 10/* My esolangs */
< 1747331463 581551 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in
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< 1747331903 564413 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot QUIT :Client Quit
< 1747331995 561430 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think zero-length arrays and zero-length structures are useful and are better than the flexible arrays of C99 and other work-arounds that shouldn't be needed.
< 1747332070 630555 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :They shouldn't guess why you want zero-length arrays and structures; it can just be allowed and then you can use it for whatever purpose is appropriate. It does have more uses than have been mentioned.
< 1747332131 503531 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :For example, sometimes you will be using a macro to retrieve a type or number from a structure but where that type or number is not actual data in the structure. Another use is if a name is required to be defined but does not need to do anything else, in which case it is suitable to take up zero space. There are others as well.
< 1747332809 620314 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I think there are problems with C; I would just allow zero-length stuff, and make other changes as well, including removing some of the C99 and later stuff while keeping some of it)
< 1747333045 771679 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron (they/them)
> 1747333495 800638 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157758&oldid=157730 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+393) 10
> 1747333521 539647 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157759&oldid=157758 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-162) 10
> 1747333536 209923 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157760&oldid=157759 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+0) 10
< 1747333866 882740 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:e93f:66b3:6eac:7b8a QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1747334701 741815 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157761&oldid=157756 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+435) 10
< 1747334825 890357 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: yes, zero-length arrays and zero-length structs are very useful, which is why rust supports them completely. they're just not worth to retrofit to an existing language like C or C++ without potentially silently breaking a lot of things that assume that zero-length data can't exist.
< 1747334933 763468 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also the C++ attribute that I mentioned earlier is [[no_unique_address]], introduced by C++20
> 1747335785 763439 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Neon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157762&oldid=157736 5* 03Neon 5* (-858) 10
< 1747335975 908187 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Rust has its own problems, including Unicode string types, and I think also excessive dependencies for programs, and I don't know if Rust has a "goto" command.
< 1747336044 867745 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :However, although it might not be worth to retrofit to C99 and newer, it can be done as an extension of C89 to add and change some things (including some things of newer versions of C); a compiler operating in C99 and newer mode could disable the features that don't work if that becomes necessary
< 1747336240 933843 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1747336374 35167 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: the unicode string tyeps are only a mild problem that can be solved by some later library additions. the main thing that's currently missing from the stable part of standard library is a byte string infix in byte string search (like memmem in C), but the devs are already working on adding such functions. some of the IO and operating system abstractions also use the unicode string types, but those 
< 1747336380 40698 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :are not so hard to replace with a different library.
< 1747336495 594993 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would generally recommend to just ignore the library unicode string types in rust, unless you want to modify the rustc compiler or write procedural macros. what's in and not in the standard library is very much influenced by what library functions rustc itself depends on.
< 1747336955 90623 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1747339074 169402 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157763 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+262) 10Created page with "Is this a WIP? ~~~~"
> 1747339113 306995 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157764&oldid=157763 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-162) 10
< 1747339553 93046 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Having the Unicode string types means that library API calls would use it. (GOTO doesn't have this problem because even if a library uses GOTO that does not affect the API calls.)
< 1747339737 544548 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I think there are other problems with Rust and some of the more modern programming languages as well; C does have some problems but the newer ones (and sometimes newer versions of C) tend to make some things worse instead.)
> 1747339882 417307 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Neon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157765&oldid=157762 5* 03Neon 5* (+16) 10
< 1747340059 50394 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: also ziglang supports zero-length structures. I'm not too familiar with zig so I'm not entirely sure if it supports zero-length arrays too, but I think it does. 
< 1747340090 848495 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1747340196 949468 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1747340663 810532 :visilii_!~visilii@85.172.77.173 JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1747340741 969785 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in
< 1747340767 773651 :visilii!~visilii@85.94.27.220 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1747340798 400117 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron (they/them)
< 1747341052 2276 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1747341962 900857 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron (they/them)
> 1747343210 376648 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157766&oldid=157724 5* 03Buckets 5* (+11) 10
> 1747343241 505739 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157767&oldid=157435 5* 03Buckets 5* (+10) 10/* 2020 */
> 1747343264 142320 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Moxy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157768 5* 03Buckets 5* (+3080) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} moxy(, which Stands for Malice-cive Over-infuriating, also filling you with Xurddjtsudutdiuf and Yjdtjxjfyxufifidfufduuf potential) is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2020, it was [[User:Buckets]]' First attempt to Make a "Hard
> 1747343302 920376 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Moxy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157769&oldid=157768 5* 03Buckets 5* (+2) 10
> 1747343334 329986 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Moxy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157770&oldid=157769 5* 03Buckets 5* (+1) 10
< 1747343352 387822 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1747343451 278751 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157771&oldid=157767 5* 03Buckets 5* (+0) 10
< 1747343608 959480 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1747343900 437236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/Live stats14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157772&oldid=157746 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+658) 10
< 1747344862 798201 :visilii_!~visilii@85.172.77.173 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1747344906 106078 :visilii!~visilii@81.177.126.61 JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in
> 1747345372 685637 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PNPL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157773&oldid=157754 5* 03Henry 5* (+6360) 10
< 1747345613 122404 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1747345986 480015 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1747346621 35385 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1747349741 366972 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Henry14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157774 5* 03Henry 5* (+470) 10Created page with "Hi, my name is Henry, and I've reached this wiki since I like to both create and implement esoteric languages (above all, because most of the time their interpreters can be reduced to only a couple lines of Python).  You can learn more about me in my [https://github.com
< 1747351225 624610 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1747351231 121993 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1747351313 979204 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1747352632 313505 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement
< 1747354005 71110 :visilii!~visilii@81.177.126.61 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1747354269 227032 :visilii!~visilii@85.94.27.197 JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in
> 1747355560 514729 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157775&oldid=157764 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+165) 10
> 1747355569 512230 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157776&oldid=157775 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+9) 10
> 1747355772 466856 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157777&oldid=157702 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+106) 10
> 1747355861 295780 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157778&oldid=157777 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+507) 10
> 1747355892 587334 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5*  10moved [[02User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica10]] to [[Logica]]
> 1747355892 615941 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5*  10moved [[02User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica10]] to [[Talk:Logica]]
> 1747355930 535112 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157783&oldid=157695 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+4) 10
> 1747355971 817783 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157784&oldid=157781 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+122) 10
> 1747356137 645541 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157785&oldid=157766 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+13) 10/* L */
> 1747357324 152358 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/Draft14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157786&oldid=157324 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+687) 10
> 1747357345 203440 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/Draft14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157787&oldid=157786 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+17) 10/* Symbols */
< 1747358083 778283 :FreeFull!~freefull@79.186.68.86.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1747358118 100925 :FreeFull!~freefull@79.186.59.252.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull
> 1747359979 487334 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpreter-modifying14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157788&oldid=157584 5* 03Corbin 5* (+331) 10The concept goes back to the beginning of Lisp, but was not well-defined enough for efficient self-hosting prior to Black.
> 1747360416 169673 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Black (Asai)14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157789 5* 03Corbin 5* (+650) 10Stub for what I think is the first proven-efficient infinite tower of metainterpreters in the literature.
> 1747361834 121021 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157790&oldid=157737 5* 03H33T33 5* (+536) 10
> 1747362268 867289 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Black (Asai)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157791&oldid=157789 5* 03Corbin 5* (+73) 10Categories.
> 1747366995 365084 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Monoid14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157792 5* 03Corbin 5* (+792) 10I have like twenty tabs open right now and I'm still probably gonna get something wrong. Here's an outline.
> 1747367879 494338 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07G14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157793 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+7501) 10Created page with "==Intro== G is a 2D esolang created by [[User:Helpeesl]] on May 15th 2025 and only uses commands which have been represented by G, g, , , , , or other forms of g in other programming languages. ==Commands==  > Moves the pointer to the right one  from [[Look!]], [[ABCDE]], [[
> 1747367929 433727 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07G14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157794&oldid=157793 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+1) 10
> 1747367968 389240 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07G14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157795&oldid=157794 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+40) 10
> 1747368060 69178 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07G14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157796&oldid=157795 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+0) 10
> 1747368176 649414 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07G14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157797&oldid=157796 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+0) 10
> 1747368266 843186 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FHC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157798&oldid=157454 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (-29) 10
> 1747368287 572229 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07HQ9-14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157799&oldid=157450 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (-29) 10
> 1747368331 715386 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[072Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157800&oldid=157469 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (-27) 10
> 1747368349 92417 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Monoid14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157801&oldid=157792 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1148) 10/* Free monoids */ Stub.
> 1747368350 898150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dreadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157802&oldid=157467 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (-26) 10
> 1747368373 464715 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Feed the Chaos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157803&oldid=157471 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (-27) 10
> 1747368447 947597 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codesick14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157804&oldid=157671 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+0) 10
> 1747368464 275931 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hakerh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157805&oldid=157739 5* 03Helpeesl 5* (+0) 10
> 1747370679 475679 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/Draft14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157806&oldid=157787 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+32) 10
< 1747370728 840185 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1747370752 484466 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: Rust currently doesn't have a goto statement, although there are plans to add gotos from one arm of a "match" (the equivalent of a "switch") to another
< 1747370866 936570 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and yes, Rust's "String" type and "str" are Unicode, but you don't have to use them for strings, there are a range of other string-like types available like OsString (OS default, e.g. UTF-16 on Windows) and Vec (bytestring)
> 1747371703 104580 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/Draft14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157807&oldid=157806 5* 03I am islptng 5* (-59) 10
> 1747371875 590998 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157808&oldid=157779 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+107) 10
> 1747372141 782173 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157809&oldid=157808 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+121) 10
> 1747372600 200574 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/Draft14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157810&oldid=157807 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+875) 10
> 1747372651 410493 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:I am islptng/Draft14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157811 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+681) 10Created page with "@[[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]]: This was what I mean yesterday! --~~~~"
> 1747372848 627892 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:I am islptng/Draft14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157812&oldid=157811 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+216) 10
< 1747374423 241762 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1747375164 418671 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN #esolangs lambdabot :Lambda_Robots:_100%_Loyal
< 1747375238 884419 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1747375589 206649 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157813&oldid=157783 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (-4) 10
< 1747375921 172839 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN #esolangs lambdabot :Lambda_Robots:_100%_Loyal
< 1747376898 481727 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: IIUC OsString on windows is actually also UTF-8 strings, they're just converted to UTF-16 on the fly when passed to a win32 system call eg. representing a filename. 
< 1747376945 878978 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :see https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/std/ffi/struct.OsString.html the paragraph starting with /Note,/
< 1747377027 517655 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I'm pretty sure Rust OsString on Windows can represent a string that contains surrogates
< 1747377032 345892 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :unpaired surrogates, that is
< 1747377203 847613 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess it could just UTF-8-encode the surrogates
< 1747377263 187571 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
> 1747377515 975884 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157814&oldid=157757 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+3) 10/* Coming soon */
> 1747377569 494329 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157815&oldid=157761 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+3) 10
< 1747377620 34965 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1747377884 861508 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1747378920 134799 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Funciton14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157816&oldid=156258 5* 03Timwi 5* (+5190) 10Regex functions: add newest functions from AoC 2024 5a (https://youtu.be/THhI_x7F8WY); add result value column and some nowraps
< 1747379348 65610 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
> 1747379387 454267 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157817&oldid=157815 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+15) 10
> 1747382574 616691 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:I am islptng/Draft14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157818&oldid=157812 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (-216) 10
< 1747386646 768606 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi
> 1747390913 248400 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Henry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157819&oldid=157774 5* 03Henry 5* (+30) 10
< 1747395174 16492 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1747395771 720471 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157820&oldid=157629 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+100) 10
> 1747396252 35858 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Monoid14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157821&oldid=157801 5* 03Ais523 5* (+693) 10/* Free monoids */ a) an introduction to what "free" means because this might be read by non-mathematicians (I think there may have been a definition already but it was so technical that I initially missed it), b) don't use S to represent a different set from the set it represents
< 1747397411 808057 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
> 1747399250 174230 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157822&oldid=157809 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (-75) 10
> 1747399731 851673 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157823&oldid=157813 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+58) 10
< 1747399732 696434 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1747400046 418966 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157824&oldid=157823 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (-9) 10
> 1747400355 42742 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157825&oldid=157817 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+36) 10
> 1747400468 138603 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SLet (Old 2)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157826&oldid=152595 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+303) 10
< 1747400520 146597 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1747400593 686022 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157827&oldid=157824 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+132) 10
< 1747400599 668313 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron (they/them)
< 1747400662 939951 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1747400686 80595 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse
> 1747400721 557063 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157828&oldid=157825 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+4) 10/* 3 */
> 1747401047 437549 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157829&oldid=157827 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (-132) 10
< 1747401209 854682 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1747401266 712687 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron (they/them)
> 1747401392 193210 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157830&oldid=157829 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+54) 10
> 1747401787 958207 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157831&oldid=157830 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (-54) 10
> 1747402390 246680 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157832&oldid=157828 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+82) 10/* 3 */
> 1747402751 59564 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157833 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+194) 10Created page with "'''Transformation is complete''' is esolang by former [[User:TBPO]], now a clone of [[User:Hakerh400]]. I made a timestamp to mark when my transformation became complete: (( I'll insert later ))"
> 1747403252 724262 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03TheCatFromGithub 5*  10New user account
< 1747403299 198830 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1747403317 530917 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157834&oldid=157814 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (+104) 10
> 1747403371 894184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v214]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157835 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+964) 10Created page with "'''Modulo 2 v2''' is a programming language created by [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]]. It is based off [[User:I am islptng]]'s modification of the original language but with features present in the original, like multiple "codeblock
> 1747403436 570012 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157836&oldid=157752 5* 03TheCatFromGithub 5* (+152) 10/* Introductions */ added introduction
> 1747403470 871848 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157837&oldid=157836 5* 03TheCatFromGithub 5* (+106) 10oops forgot to sign
> 1747403770 99901 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157838&oldid=157832 5* 03TenBillionPlusOne 5* (-19) 10
> 1747404038 947711 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157839&oldid=157822 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+4) 10
> 1747404128 430964 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PNPL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157840&oldid=157773 5* 03Henry 5* (+1498) 10
> 1747404394 335778 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157841&oldid=157839 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+10) 10
> 1747404709 978380 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157842&oldid=157790 5* 03H33T33 5* (+238) 10
> 1747405475 946474 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157843&oldid=157842 5* 03H33T33 5* (-7) 10
> 1747405688 958841 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157844&oldid=157843 5* 03H33T33 5* (-9) 10
> 1747406086 673229 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157845&oldid=157760 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+285) 10
> 1747406124 310362 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157846&oldid=157845 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-162) 10
> 1747406158 865557 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Infinite noise automata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157847&oldid=145311 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+2793) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/145311|145311]] by [[Special:Contributions/RainbowDash|RainbowDash]] ([[User talk:RainbowDash|talk]])
> 1747406244 695802 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157848&oldid=157675 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-94) 10
> 1747406272 91244 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157849&oldid=157848 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+27) 10
> 1747406301 681559 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157850&oldid=157849 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+18) 10
> 1747406314 407159 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157851&oldid=157850 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+9) 10
< 1747406461 873887 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
> 1747406665 301730 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ShiftEso14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157852 5* 03TheCatFromGithub 5* (+557) 10created page
> 1747406685 556269 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TheCatFromGithub14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157853 5* 03TheCatFromGithub 5* (+30) 10Created page with "Hello, I created [[ShiftEso]]."
> 1747406706 925775 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ShiftEso14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157854&oldid=157852 5* 03TheCatFromGithub 5* (+3) 10
< 1747406804 861029 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1747406843 232629 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157855&oldid=157785 5* 03TheCatFromGithub 5* (+15) 10/* S */ added shifteso
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< 1747407108 593141 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
< 1747407527 208760 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1747407573 349686 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :what the heck? "correspondance" is spelled with "ance" in english, but "ence" in french? I was told that the "ance" vs "ence" spelling always matches between english and french! it's all lies!
< 1747407652 427396 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wrong way around
< 1747407679 529343 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh... yes, it's spelled with "ence" in english and "ance" in french
< 1747407697 560547 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but why?
< 1747408164 292504 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Another example is "difference" vs "diffránce" (sp?); there was some sort of vowel shift after the loaning of these words.
< 1747408241 661200 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: My dictionary says that it's "différence" in French, which has the same ending
< 1747408243 107258 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, wow. "différance". I was not even close.
< 1747408256 313399 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and I don't think that á is a letter in French)
< 1747408296 819139 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :différance is a French word, but it's the equivalent of the obscure English word différance (which is presumably a loanword)
< 1747408319 159798 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Oh, apparently Derrida deliberately used the old spelling, and that's why it sticks out in my mind.
< 1747408336 812758 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So this is a non-example for modern Francophones.
< 1747408350 580345 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : The ⟨a⟩ of différance is a deliberate misspelling of différence, though the two are pronounced identically
< 1747408365 657262 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yep, an example of hauntology.
< 1747408601 406105 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"ance" vs "ence" ending is always pronounced differently, that's why this is so confusing
< 1747408630 830920 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no
< 1747408632 516101 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ARGH
< 1747408645 260508 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"ance" vs "ence" ending is always pronounced the same, that's why this is so confusing
< 1747408652 679880 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :my mind is broken
< 1747408725 739233 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean there was the part where "correspondence" applies at the meta level too because these are about english and french words corresponding to each other, and now you brought up "difference".
< 1747408738 613449 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the vowel's more a schwa than anything, I think – which would imply that it would be pronounced differently if you stressed the syllable but not in its usual unstressed state
< 1747408783 753348 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :are there any esolangs which are named using regular words except that the stress is in the wrong place?
< 1747408869 790762 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, maybe the spelling is an attempt to set up a who shaves the barber style paradox, like "what's the only word ending in 'ance' or 'ence' where the correspondence between english and french spelling is broken?" "correspondence." "yes, that's what I said."
< 1747408921 682547 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"except the stress is in the wrong place" => probably, because there are both british and american esolangers, and they don't always agree on where the stress is
< 1747408980 346410 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1747409161 413868 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :of course this started because I was writing "correspondence" and then decided to look up the spelling. not that my readers would care in this case.
< 1747409273 606235 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :often the only way to memorise this sort of thing is to read enough English that it become subconscious
< 1747409322 435190 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: "why" -- apparently it's taken from Latin without the detour via French: https://www.etymonline.com/word/correspondence
< 1747409421 188056 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, I know "existence" is one that I often used to spell wrong
< 1747409529 802515 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: latin is what usually decides between "ance" and "ence" spelling yes, and that's why it matches in french and english, but that doesn't explain the difference for "correspondance" in french vs "correspondence" in english
< 1747409592 115204 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess I don't care about that part as much.
< 1747409821 793945 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1747410564 805484 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1747410571 88117 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
> 1747410811 254921 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mlatu-614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157856&oldid=157650 5* 03Zhil 5* (+4) 10Reduced the size of the one-combinator bases
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> 1747414759 226326 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mlatu-614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157857&oldid=157856 5* 03Zhil 5* (+1) 10
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< 1747415134 857342 :chloetax!~chloe@user/chloetax JOIN #esolangs chloetax :chloe
< 1747416390 423052 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1747416540 193709 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron (they/them)
> 1747416726 795566 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Monoid14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157858&oldid=157821 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1854) 10I see that leaving this half-finished was a mistake. Next time I will not start editing before bed.
< 1747416776 795741 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I can't see a way to save your paragraph in [[monoid]]. The freedom of equality isn't the point, and that's actually why I included equality in the top-level definition.
< 1747416808 866411 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :What's relevant here is that for any set L, L* is a monoid; that is, there's a functor * : Set -> Mon.
< 1747416839 127165 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1747416847 593721 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I need to bulldoze that section somewhat anyway, because I didn't realize that I need to define monoid presentations and rank *after* free monoids.
> 1747417096 97172 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Monoid14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157859&oldid=157858 5* 03Corbin 5* (+240) 10Put the category-theory gibberish at the bottom, out of the way. Most folks will only care about sets.
< 1747417107 165814 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: so the basic problem with the article is that someone who knows enough of the relevant mathematics to be able to understand it would already know what a monoid is, so it's unclear who the target audience is
< 1747417128 355556 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Oh! Okay, let's reset assumptions before I keep editing.
< 1747417161 159903 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's probably fixable after the artice is finished, though
< 1747417202 387512 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :My main thought was that I've gotten basically no guidance on [[concatenative language]]. My secondary thought was that monoids sure pop up a lot but we never bother to explain what they are.
< 1747417299 926122 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm seriously concerned that we're going to enter a third generation of programmers who refuse to learn what a monoid homomorphism is, and we're not even having a page that bikesheds the terminology.
< 1747417335 261967 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :concatenative languages bother me a bit, because there are a) concatenative calculus languages like Joy and Mlatu which clearly fit, and b) a whole sphere of concatenative-ish languages like brainfuck which are a bit of a grey area
< 1747417343 661289 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I'm not sure how to deal with b) in my head
< 1747417352 462837 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :[[BF instruction minimalization]] is a messy read at best. Basically lab notes. Do we have a clear target audience for that?
< 1747417389 182127 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, sure, the tribes of programming languages are a difficult Whorfian mind-lock to escape.
< 1747417391 890186 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's for people who want to see a lot of partial attempts at minimalising BF
< 1747417406 871505 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is a nontrivially-sized target audience
< 1747417430 668167 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure. As opposed to [[simple translation]], which is for the much smaller audience of folks who are minimising BF~
< 1747417431 602162 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are so many programmers who see that < and - can be combined into a single instruction and the language still works, then try to go further
< 1747417454 350688 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the simple translation page came a lot later, and was an attempt to formalise some of the concepts rather than to show a lot of attempts
< 1747417483 420413 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and was also intended to shed light onto the "minimalise BF into a turning tarpit" approach which may, oddly, still be possible via simple translation)
< 1747417519 508783 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but "trying to minimalise BF" is a) a popular subject, b) something that it's very easy to do incorrectly
< 1747417539 944321 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so having a lot of visible attempts is in some sense useful to avoid duplication of effort (and also to demonstrate why it's hard to do correctly)
< 1747417602 282198 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm trying to remember if anyone's tried obviously futile things like memory-mapping [ and ] yet – it wouldn't surprise me
< 1747417614 838566 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also, I think that you and I look at deep structure differently. I'm completely unsurprised that monoids would show up randomly in the syntax of existing languages, because existing languages tend to have *much* richer structures, up to Kleene algebras!
< 1747417660 269693 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: oh, I'm not surprised that the syntax forms a monoid – I'm surprised that the syntax forms a *function* in a way that makes composition meaningful
< 1747417711 728168 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Oh, it's because control flow tends to be monadic and monads are a special kind of monoid.
< 1747417732 420725 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :If you have the ability to say "do this, then do that", that usually implies some sort of monoidal action combining this and that.
< 1747417807 615419 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, but the monadic flatmap feels a bit different from the normal sense of function composition
< 1747417833 55377 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it can be viewed as a function composition, though
> 1747417956 810538 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ShiftEso14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157860&oldid=157854 5* 03TheCatFromGithub 5* (+2) 10
< 1747417973 635681 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The way we usually do it (for some monad M) is to lift functions X → Y to actions X → M(Y). This is why folks say that monad-heavy languages act "in the monad" or "return into the monad".
> 1747417981 817410 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157861&oldid=157851 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-10) 10
< 1747418002 412443 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Then the composition is "ordinary" function composition, using the pieces of the monad as needed.
< 1747418028 782586 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, yeah, monoids are just special cases of categories. It's all just goo at some point.
< 1747418043 702829 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, no, because the syntactic composition composes X→M(Y) with Y→M(Z) to produce X→M(Z), and function composition doesn't do that
< 1747418069 90561 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's a related operation but not identical
< 1747418084 71019 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Syntactic composition with the semicolon will do that. Most languages don't have the "programmable semicolon"; the monad is fixed.
< 1747418110 475141 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, OK, I think I understand what I'm stuck on now
< 1747418148 663331 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we are composing X→Y and Y→Z but the actual program is doing M(X→Y) and M(Y→Z) for some fixed monad M
< 1747418199 422307 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are, e.g., two ways to view an Underload fragment: either it's a function from the portion of the stack it reads to the portion of the stack it writes, or it's a function from stacks to stacks
< 1747418216 141757 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, exactly. Like for BF, the monad passes the state of the tape and pointer and manages I/O. The homomorphism is sending us to the Kleisli category where that monad is a fixed background effect.
< 1747418227 261054 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the latter view is easy to understand and reason about – but the former view is the one you are mostly using when programming in it
< 1747418251 24168 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Right. The latter is what we do with Forth-style stack-effect comments like ( x y -- z w z )
< 1747418255 901264 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for languages which are further away from concatenative calculus, the monad is pulling more weight and is less visible
< 1747418281 669241 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But the former is what we operationalize with e.g. Haskell stacks like (x, (y, Stack)) -> (z, (w, (z, Stack)))
< 1747418301 810781 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so defining them as concatenative means that you are trying to force the monad "into view", and into the definition of syntax fragments as functions, when it isn't something that programmers consciously think about usually
< 1747418327 12809 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes. And for languages like Cammy, with *no* background monad, this hopefully trivializes; one can pretend that Cammy is always talking about sets.
< 1747418368 121663 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fwiw, I'm generally a believer that statically typed languages should try to make their background monads more visible, especially by integrating them into the type system
< 1747418395 907879 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think effect systems are an example of that sort of thing
< 1747418414 44740 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and Haskell is substantially in that direction already (although I don't use it much)
< 1747418473 32615 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So, here's a concrete motivation for compiler engineers: concatenative reasoning can be used to iterate over a list of operations, and a monoid can be used to optimize those iterations down into a single action.
< 1747418501 504775 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Peephole optimizers are an obvious example, but abstract interpreters can be defined to generally walk over a list (or anything traversable, of course...)
< 1747418514 759336 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so compiler intermediate representations have been gradually moving in that direction – but they also usually have more symmetries than a monoid implies
< 1747418537 865871 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so you end up with something that is a monoid, but has extra structure on top (and typically doesn't syntactically match the original language)
< 1747418564 736450 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, tell me what you think of this: https://github.com/rpypkgs/rpypkgs/blob/main/bf/bf.py#L163-L192
< 1747418589 494628 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh right, Github doesn't work without JS nowadays
< 1747418592 441547 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :give me a moment
< 1747418592 908324 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :This is a one-register abstract interpreter over BF. Its correctness is mostly from the idea that we really do have a monoid.
< 1747418613 352223 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(pull requests still work, and readmes on project home pages, just not anything else)
< 1747418640 805119 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Are raw links still working? https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rpypkgs/rpypkgs/refs/heads/main/bf/bf.py
< 1747418690 1814 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I loaded it, eventually
< 1747418701 802550 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I find it hard to read and hard to get an idea of whether or not it's correct
< 1747418759 244468 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :…also I was surprised that I'm apparently not the only person who habitually uses "rv" for temporary variables that are used to construct the return value of a function, despite the name being an obvious initialism
< 1747418837 329673 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, things like "elif adHead is anAdd and ad is aZero: bfHead, adHead, immHead = bf, ad, imm" look like bugs to me – I assume that adds are more complicated than zeros, so why would you overwrite the add with the zero?
< 1747418848 243067 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but that doesn't mean they are bugs, it might just mean that I'm not understanding how the code works
< 1747418928 548946 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :adHead is the next instruction to commit and ad is the next instruction to decode. This corresponds to BF code like `++[-]`; we're committed to adding 2, but that will be wiped out by an unconditional 0.
< 1747418949 481985 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, I see – it's a "set to zero" instruction, so you're wiping out any previous changes
< 1747418961 816374 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, yeah, like in bfmacro.
< 1747419017 255883 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess this code is not making use of the monoidal nature of BF because it would work just as well scanning left to right
< 1747419060 215731 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :…although it's hard to imagine a nonassociative version of BF that could be used to demonstrate the code still working
< 1747419104 121929 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"do a, then (b then c)" is basically inherently equivalent to "do (a then b), then c" and I can't currently think of a way to break it even in an esolang
< 1747419112 182568 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe some sort of race condition/
< 1747419115 562817 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The correctness stems from the idea that a monoid can always be forcefully turned from a sequence into a (left-leaning?) tree, and then we can do induction and recursion.
< 1747419175 601665 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I was thinking of the converse: I agree the fact that it's a monoid makes it correct, *but* the approach seems conceptually correct even for non-monoids
< 1747419192 689861 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's just that it's hard to verify how that works because it's hard to imagine the underlying operation being nonassociative
< 1747419209 81558 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1747419212 69614 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess it's easier to imagine the underlying operation not having an identity
< 1747419267 82074 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although that would be a weird language design exercise: to create a language where (e.g.) empty program and loop bodys aren't allowed, and there is no way to combine commands in order to produce a no-op
< 1747419277 88367 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* loop bodies
< 1747419404 48492 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Elements of bicategories are monads, so there's probably some flavor of Hilton-Eckmann argument nearby.
< 1747419478 682008 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, I'll come back to this eventually, if I find the motivation again.
< 1747419492 813280 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sometimes contributing to this wiki makes me want to smash a keyboard against the wall.
< 1747419624 143602 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I frequently have trouble producing the motivation to do anything
< 1747420035 544888 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, I'll stop being a distraction.
< 1747420059 342172 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure that distractions really hurt (except that sometimes I can't even get the motivation to go on IRC)
< 1747420133 861947 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PART :#esolangs
< 1747420137 780882 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(to be clear, sometimes I'm offline for other reasons – if distractions would be a problem I just disconnect from the Internet)
< 1747421198 76253 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood
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< 1747421619 176848 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1747421619 414234 :callforjudgement!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
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< 1747421814 62155 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org JOIN #esolangs leah2 :Leah Neukirchen
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< 1747424809 392618 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( imagine using WASM just to get access to a 64 bit integer type )
< 1747425566 61503 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1747425915 940529 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Monoid14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157862&oldid=157859 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+8) 10marking this as a work in progress since some sections are blank
> 1747425954 938737 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ShiftEso14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157863&oldid=157860 5* 03TheCatFromGithub 5* (+1856) 10explained the language
> 1747426030 845427 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ShiftEso14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157864&oldid=157863 5* 03TheCatFromGithub 5* (+39) 10/* Examples */ add example
> 1747426092 514652 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ShiftEso14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157865&oldid=157864 5* 03TheCatFromGithub 5* (+43) 10
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< 1747428498 848895 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm, why is BV so isolated in https://smt-lib.org/logics.shtml (can't be combined with any (linear) arithmetic flavors)... I guess it's intentionally a fragment that can be bit-blasted?
< 1747429750 981533 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a44a:50e6:3df5:3b66 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
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> 1747434192 714666 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Las-r 5*  10New user account
< 1747434331 196991 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's interesting.
> 1747434633 756923 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157866&oldid=157837 5* 03Las-r 5* (+260) 10introduction
> 1747434641 989553 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Greed14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157867 5* 03Las-r 5* (+881) 10Create page.
> 1747434748 575463 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Greed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157868&oldid=157867 5* 03Las-r 5* (-12) 10Fix formatting
> 1747434803 139150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157869&oldid=157855 5* 03Buckets 5* (+10) 10
> 1747434851 232830 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157870&oldid=157771 5* 03Buckets 5* (+9) 10
> 1747434864 609798 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Jil14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157871 5* 03Buckets 5* (+1401) 10Created page with "Jil is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2021. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | > || Set the Input to The current Target. |- | - || Set the Target to The Next character as A Variable. |- | < || Output The Current target I
> 1747434925 392060 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Jil14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157872&oldid=157871 5* 03Buckets 5* (+1) 10
> 1747435032 842564 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Greed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157873&oldid=157868 5* 03Las-r 5* (+109) 10Add links to source and creator.
> 1747435187 320015 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Greed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157874&oldid=157873 5* 03Las-r 5* (+16) 10
> 1747435334 773286 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Greed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157875&oldid=157874 5* 03Las-r 5* (+40) 10Add categories
> 1747435373 313048 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Greed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157876&oldid=157875 5* 03Las-r 5* (+1) 10Fix categories
> 1747435385 972347 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Greed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157877&oldid=157876 5* 03Las-r 5* (-3) 10
> 1747435650 38475 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Treadnil14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157878&oldid=148990 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (-1) 10Fixed Truth machine
> 1747435660 978887 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WTF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157879&oldid=157844 5* 03H33T33 5* (+592) 10
> 1747435802 350739 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Greed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157880&oldid=157877 5* 03Las-r 5* (+85) 10Add more categories
> 1747435981 710588 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (D-G)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157881&oldid=152431 5* 03Las-r 5* (+200) 10Add greed
> 1747436090 810859 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (D-G)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157882&oldid=157881 5* 03Las-r 5* (-30) 10Fix formatting so greed doesnt get cut off
> 1747436266 979112 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Greed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157883&oldid=157880 5* 03Las-r 5* (+108) 10Add brainfuck inspiration
< 1747436349 969073 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523 "empty program and loop bodys aren't allowed, and there is no way to combine commands in order to produce a no-op" => you could do that with a hypothetical CPU where every instruction overwrites a result or flags register, so if you want to do a conditional branch with the status flags you have to put the branch instruction right after the compare instruction (with not even a function call or 
< 1747436355 974758 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :return between) and if you want to store the result of some arithmetic then you have to put the store right after the arithmetic instruction
< 1747436518 734254 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no no-op combinations because you can never preserve both result registers from the previous state, only one of the two
< 1747436813 675858 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or you could have a machine where every instruction writes exactly one of the eight generaly purpose registers, and the instruction can never read and write the same register, so you always lose the value of one of the eight
< 1747437143 605 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :heck, let's make that sillier, there are 9 general purpose registers, every instruction nominally has two register input arguments and one register output arguments and all three must be distinct, and the three register indexes together are encoded into a 9 bit field.  some instructions ignore one or both nominal input registers, just to keep the operand encoding uniform, but the output register is 
< 1747437149 6933 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :always clobbered
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> 1747442992 810386 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157884&oldid=157866 5* 03Shazun bhasfu 5* (+248) 10/* Introductions */
> 1747443782 802113 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Somp14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157885 5* 03Shazun bhasfu 5* (+855) 10the somp esolang!
> 1747443799 71089 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Somp14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157886&oldid=157885 5* 03Shazun bhasfu 5* (+1) 10
> 1747443811 263550 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Somp14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157887&oldid=157886 5* 03Shazun bhasfu 5* (+4) 10
< 1747443949 403156 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement
> 1747443986 407725 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Anti-Machine language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157888&oldid=157554 5* 03None1 5* (+284) 10/* What counts as a machine? */
> 1747444896 899482 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Machine-language14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157889 5* 03None1 5* (+965) 10Created page with ":{{Distinguish/Confusion|text=the non-esoteric machine language, which is the language used by the CPU directly.}}  '''Machine-language''', as opposed to [[Anti-machine language]], is invented by [[User:None1]].  ==Execution== This esolang is the same as [[brainfu
> 1747444905 464691 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Machine-language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157890&oldid=157889 5* 03None1 5* (+0) 10
> 1747444964 747192 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157891&oldid=156958 5* 03None1 5* (+67) 10/* General languages */
> 1747444990 690022 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157892&oldid=157219 5* 03None1 5* (+66) 10
> 1747445065 658139 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157893&oldid=157846 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+136) 10
> 1747446611 432639 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157894&oldid=157893 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+292) 10
> 1747446645 155744 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157895&oldid=157894 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-162) 10
> 1747448300 116819 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ShiftEso14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157896&oldid=157865 5* 03TheCatFromGithub 5* (+67) 10
> 1747449095 104596 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Somp14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157897&oldid=157887 5* 03Shazun bhasfu 5* (+41) 10
> 1747449269 636036 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Somp14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157898&oldid=157897 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (-52) 10fixing formatting
> 1747449342 797820 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Somp14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157899&oldid=157898 5* 03Shazun bhasfu 5* (+27) 10
> 1747449409 225054 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Somp14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157900&oldid=157899 5* 03Shazun bhasfu 5* (+26) 10
> 1747449418 501201 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ShiftEso14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157901&oldid=157896 5* 03TheCatFromGithub 5* (+2) 10fixed to be more consistent
> 1747449482 715903 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ShiftEso14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157902&oldid=157901 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (-2) 10I assume you might want the link to be visible?
> 1747449630 773563 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ShiftEso14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157903&oldid=157902 5* 03TheCatFromGithub 5* (+5) 10/* An explanation of shifting */ fixed some errors i made
> 1747453878 740833 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157904&oldid=157820 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+920) 10
> 1747458602 873500 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Kyu14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157905 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+15968) 10Created page with "Kyu is a weird semi-esoteric language by [[User:BoundedBeans]] created for an unpublished scratch project of a weird console-only queue-based operating system called Kronos-QOS. However, the language is not very queue-based itself. Also, the language has many dependen
> 1747458628 373149 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157906&oldid=157869 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+10) 10
> 1747458693 922436 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:BoundedBeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157907&oldid=153052 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+154) 10
> 1747459003 957143 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Kyu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157908&oldid=157905 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+63) 10The visual basic thing isn't exact enough to be considered a conformant implementation
> 1747459907 566152 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157909&oldid=156951 5* 03None1 5* (+349) 10/*  programming language */
> 1747461676 480615 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157910&oldid=157831 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+54) 10
> 1747461769 365905 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157911&oldid=157835 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (-961) 10Replaced content with "no."
> 1747461781 250844 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157912&oldid=157910 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (-45) 10
> 1747462306 938498 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Logica logo.png10]]"
> 1747462352 400108 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157914&oldid=157841 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (+61) 10
> 1747462371 969375 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Logica14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157915&oldid=157914 5* 03H. H. P. M. P. Cole 5* (-1) 10