00:07:15 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/12]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=162785 * Hotcrystal0 * (+55) Created page with "'''12''' is an esolang created by [[User:Hotcrystal0]]."
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02:46:04 <esolangs> [[Telifuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162786&oldid=162764 * PkmnQ * (+8) /* Programs */
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04:49:47 <esolangs> [[User:Junkshipp/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162787&oldid=162777 * Junkshipp * (+494)
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08:16:49 <esolangs> [[Condit]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162788&oldid=149916 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Examples */
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09:29:52 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Ractangle * uploaded "[[File:Flower made in CFRS.png]]"
09:30:51 <esolangs> [[CFRS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162790&oldid=121109 * Ractangle * (+223) /* Examples */
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10:55:08 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162791&oldid=162248 * PrySigneToFry * (+154) /* It's your turn in User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF. */ new section
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12:30:38 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162792&oldid=162791 * Hotcrystal0 * (+278)
12:45:31 <esolangs> [[User talk:Pifrited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162793&oldid=161659 * Pifrited * (+158)
12:59:57 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162794&oldid=149238 * WarzokERNST135 * (+136) /* Commands */ Added No mans fish variation
13:08:45 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/PasteBin]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162795&oldid=162369 * Pifrited * (+125)
13:09:30 <esolangs> [[No mans fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162796&oldid=162783 * WarzokERNST135 * (+128)
13:14:31 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162797&oldid=162794 * WarzokERNST135 * (+52) /* Variants of deadfish */ Added No mans fish
13:18:00 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162798&oldid=162344 * PrySigneToFry * (+116)
13:26:20 <esolangs> [[Turing tarpit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162799&oldid=154994 * WarzokERNST135 * (+43) /* Survey */ Added (piggus)
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13:45:40 <esolangs> [[Quack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=162800 * WarzokERNST135 * (+520) Created page with "{{WIP}} [[Quack]] is an [[esolang]] made by [[WarzokERNST135]]. ==Commands== {{cd|quack}}: Starts the program. <br>{{cd|kcauq}}: Ends the program. <br>{{cd|caukq}}: Starts a loop, until the pointer's value reaches 0. <br>{{cd|kaucq}}: Ends a loop. <br>{{cd|cuaqk}}:
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13:46:05 <esolangs> [[User:WarzokERNST135]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162801&oldid=162784 * WarzokERNST135 * (+14)
13:46:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162802&oldid=161372 * PrySigneToFry * (+297)
13:47:51 <esolangs> [[Titin]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162803&oldid=150056 * PrySigneToFry * (+9)
13:54:29 <esolangs> [[User:WarzokERNST135/Hydrogen monoxide]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=162804 * WarzokERNST135 * (+300) Hydrogen monoxide
13:56:51 <esolangs> [[User:WarzokERNST135/Hydrogen monoxide/Cube]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=162805 * WarzokERNST135 * (+168) Created page with "How did you get here? ==3== Code some more <pre> if (you found this through the recent changes){ say "ok that's normal" } else { say "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" } </pre>"
13:59:28 <esolangs> [[User:WarzokERNST135/]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=162806 * WarzokERNST135 * (+80) Redirected page to [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]]
14:02:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162807&oldid=162802 * WarzokERNST135 * (+165) /* Commands */
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14:06:57 <esolangs> [[User:/nil]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=162808 * WarzokERNST135 * (+315) Created page with "[[User:/nil]] is one of the weirdest esolangs in the world. ==Commands== {{cd|null}}: Breaks the pointer and crashes the Moon onto the Earth. {{cd|User:WarzokERNST135}}: Creates a black hole and eats the next bits of code. ==Contribute?== You can contribute t
14:08:50 <esolangs> [[User talk:/nil]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=162809 * WarzokERNST135 * (+235) Created page with "[[User talk:/nil]] is as weird as [[User:/nil]] but it also allows you to create MORE programming languages using this prefix: '''User talk:/nil/(PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE HERE)''' Also this esolang also has the commands of [[User:/nil]]."
14:20:08 <esolangs> [[Template:FontColor]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=162810 * WarzokERNST135 * (+146) I made this by hand.
14:20:53 <esolangs> [[Template talk:FontColor]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=162811 * WarzokERNST135 * (+106) Created page with "If you say I took this from Wikipedia, compare it to Wikipedia's version. It's different from this version"
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14:38:34 <esolangs> [[Zowm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162812&oldid=162728 * Dhzb * (+72)
14:39:23 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/PasteBin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162813&oldid=162795 * Pifrited * (+1260)
14:47:47 <esolangs> [[Zowm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162814&oldid=162812 * Dhzb * (+57)
15:01:20 <esolangs> [[User:Junkshipp/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162815&oldid=162787 * Junkshipp * (+746) /* Syntax */
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15:34:47 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162816&oldid=161107 * PrySigneToFry * (+840)
16:33:09 <esolangs> [[(piggus)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162817&oldid=162778 * Corbin * (-22) This is an output-only language, so not TC; fixing categories. A [[trivial brainfuck substitution]] would go in the other direction to inherit BF's TC-ness.
16:33:50 <esolangs> [[Turing tarpit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162818&oldid=162799 * Corbin * (-42) /* Survey */ Remove non-TC language.
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17:15:18 <esolangs> [[BytePusher]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162819&oldid=160560 * Blashyrkh * (+158) /* Programs/Fire */ Replace IPFS links (all dead) with github links
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17:28:04 <esolangs> [[Subleq extra]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162820&oldid=162657 * Ilikeundertale * (-87) removed nonexistant cagetories i added without knowing they dont exist
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17:29:05 <esolangs> [[Subleq extra]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162821&oldid=162820 * Ilikeundertale * (+0)
18:05:45 <esolangs> [[Turing tarpit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162822&oldid=162818 * Corbin * (+2392) Start structuring the list to reduce vanity tagging. Combinators are an easy first target.
18:05:59 <korvo> ...I need to actually compute Iota's rank now.
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18:50:52 <esolangs> [[Iota]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162823&oldid=159787 * Corbin * (+634) /* Semantics */ Hack out a justifiable single-combinator basis; unify grammar somewhat.
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19:02:25 <korvo> I think I can do a bit better. iota of K is precisely S, so ι K x y z = S x y z ought to require rank four. Just gotta hack out the proof tree.
19:40:10 <korvo> Oh, there might be a problem. ι is defined as ι f = f S K. But if S and K are trees made entirely of ι then they don't reduce away. So I'm suddenly very concerned that ι is not actually complete, in the sense that it might not admit the same reduction rules as SK.
19:40:43 <korvo> ...And this affects Fokker's basis too. This is not good. Hopefully I've just misunderstood horribly and everything will make sense after lunch.
19:43:10 <korvo> Barker's definition of Iota seems to require the intermediate reductions to S and K. I'm checking whether an intermediate reduction to I would suffice. Either way, I think that this entire line of historical reasoning might need a re-examination.
19:50:11 <korvo> ...No, it looks like both S and K are required. I'm going to hope that somebody can tell me what I'm doing wrong, and in the meantime, lunch.
20:24:28 <esolangs> [[(piggus)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162824&oldid=162817 * WarzokERNST135 * (+98) /* Turing completeness proof */
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20:44:26 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=162825 * WarzokERNST135 * (+140) Created page with "[[]] is an esolang made by [[WarzokERNST135]]. ==[[XKCD Random Number]]== 4. ==[[Hello World]]== "Hello World". ==[[Cat program]]== i."
20:44:55 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162826&oldid=162825 * WarzokERNST135 * (+23)
20:46:37 <esolangs> [[User:WarzokERNST135]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162827&oldid=162801 * WarzokERNST135 * (+12)
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21:22:52 <esolangs> [[Definition]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162828&oldid=150789 * Ractangle * (+6) /* Syntax */ "do" now requires two arguments
21:23:30 <esolangs> [[Definition]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162829&oldid=162828 * Ractangle * (-8) /* Truth-machine */
22:00:12 <esolangs> [[User:Junkshipp/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=162830&oldid=162815 * Junkshipp * (+331) /* Calling functions */
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22:14:07 <ais523> korvo: so a while ago, I was implementing SK combinator calculus, except I was implementing it in continuation-passing style
22:14:30 <ais523> and something similar happened: I seemed to need an extra temporary combinator, I couldn't use just S and K (and S1, S2, K1) in the internals
22:16:05 <ais523> eventually I traced that back to S not specifying the evaluation order of its arguments, whereas continuation-passing-style forces an explicit evaluation order: S a b c is (a c) (b c) which, if you're compiling to a VM with an explicit evaluation order, requires you to evaluate one of (a c) or (b c) before the other, and then you need a temporary to represent the *unevaluated* (a c) or (b c) while the other is being evaluated
22:16:25 <ais523> it wouldn't surprise me if you've observed the same basic phenomenon with iota, just with some other virtual machine property
22:17:19 <ais523> (context for people who haven't seen the notation before: S1, S2, K1 are the names for combinators that apply S or K to insufficiently many arguments, so that they can't be evaluated further without more arguments appearing)
22:17:45 <ais523> e.g. the normal form of S S K is (S2 S K) which is a single combinator, you can think of it as a struct with S in the first field and K in the second
22:18:56 <ais523> (correction: I said "S not specifying the evaluation order of its arguments" but I meant the partially-applied applications inside it, not the argumetns)
22:20:41 <ais523> I try not to say things I don't mean, but sometimes it happens by mistake :-(
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23:06:51 <korvo> ais523: Oh, interesting. That could be related.
23:08:19 <korvo> As I was explaining this to a friend over lunch, I realized that when we build applicative trees, we also introduce an intermediate pseudo-combinator, usually called @, with a rule like @ x y = x y, which reifies application.
23:09:08 <korvo> (Ugh, bad sentence structure, sorry.) An applicative tree has some maintenance associated with it, and we don't always reify that maintenance. Combinatory logic makes the assumption that application will be managed for us but everything else must be explicit.
23:16:05 <korvo> ais523: I think that the S1, S2, K1 conventions are definitely part of what's going on. We're so used to lambda terms having an equivalence with combinators, but we've not taken care to think about how combinators must encode the reduction rules of LC.
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23:21:35 <korvo> ais523: Okay, I think I've got a sketch of a proof. Let I, S, and K be represented by some trees only built with ι. Let ι f x… = f S K x…, with arbitrary extent. Then any "reduction" of ι is going to produce a bigger tree of ι. There's no eliminator.
23:22:26 <korvo> fruits4fruits: Hi! We're doing some maths. Don't worry about it. How are you?
23:24:24 <korvo> ais523: But anyway, now I'm kind of on the other side of the looking glass and I'm thinking of going back and re-reading Fokker's paper as well as Barendregt's notes. At some point we started writing down expressions that aren't obviously combinators, and we didn't catch it because we figured that the failure of simple typing was the only relevant warning.
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