00:11:09 <esolangs> [[User:Junkshipp/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163007&oldid=163005 * Junkshipp * (+0) /* Deduction */
00:11:22 <esolangs> [[User:Junkshipp/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163008&oldid=163007 * Junkshipp * (-2) /* Deduction */
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00:24:13 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163009&oldid=162973 * Hotcrystal0 * (+214)
01:04:19 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163010&oldid=163009 * Hotcrystal0 * (-214)
03:39:10 <strerror> Python golfing contest: https://www.kaggle.com/competitions/google-code-golf-2025
03:44:24 <esolangs> [[SARCASM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163011&oldid=162996 * RainbowDash * (+531) Instructions Yay
03:45:00 <esolangs> [[SARCASM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163012&oldid=163011 * RainbowDash * (+1) /* SARCASM Instruction Set */
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04:25:00 <esolangs> [[SARCASM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163014&oldid=163013 * RainbowDash * (+549) user input in the form of a single digit
04:28:59 <esolangs> [[SARCASM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163015&oldid=163014 * RainbowDash * (+4) /* SARCASM Instruction Set */
04:33:22 <esolangs> [[SARCASM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163016&oldid=163015 * RainbowDash * (+233) Infobox also added credit for me to making it.
04:34:08 <esolangs> [[SARCASM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163017&oldid=163016 * RainbowDash * (+7) Spacing
04:40:55 <esolangs> [[SARCASM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163018&oldid=163017 * RainbowDash * (+1) s. That's all for tonight i think.
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08:13:15 <ais523> `as-encoding jmp *%eax
08:13:18 <HackEso> {standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: operand type mismatch for `jmp'
08:13:36 <HackEso> {standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: operand type mismatch for `jmp'
08:13:41 <HackEso> {standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Warning: indirect jmp without `*' \ ff e0: jmpq *%rax
08:13:45 <ais523> `as-encoding jmp *%rax
08:18:38 <ais523> `as-encoding mov 0x1234(%rip, %rax), %rcx
08:18:40 <HackEso> {standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: `0x1234(%rip,%rax)' is not a valid base/index expression
08:18:54 <ais523> `as-encoding mov 0x1234(%rbp, %rax), %rcx
08:18:57 <HackEso> 48 8b 8c 05 34 12 00: mov 0x1234(%rbp,%rax,1),%rcx \ 00
08:19:03 <ais523> `as-encoding mov 0x1234(%rbp, %eax), %rcx
08:19:05 <HackEso> {standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: `0x1234(%rbp,%eax)' is not a valid base/index expression
08:19:44 <ais523> `as-encoding mov 0x1234(%rbp, %rax, 8), %rcx
08:19:46 <HackEso> 48 8b 8c c5 34 12 00: mov 0x1234(%rbp,%rax,8),%rcx \ 00
08:20:30 <ais523> `as-encoding lea 0x1234(%rip), %rbp
08:20:33 <HackEso> 48 8d 2d 34 12 00 00: lea 0x1234(%rip),%rbp # 0x123b
09:05:04 <fizzie> "The concise implementations produced by top teams are likely to serve as canonical reference solutions for this seminal dataset."
09:05:20 <fizzie> . o O (Are we _sure_ we want AI systems to generate golfed code?)
09:06:49 <fizzie> There seems to be an (unwarranted?) assumption that the shortest possible solution will naturally "emphasiz[e] robustness and simplicity".
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11:10:50 <ais523> fizzie: in my experience, golfed code emphasizes algorithms with fewer and simpler steps over robust and performant algorithms
11:11:14 <ais523> in particular, frequently the shortest way to write something is to loop over all possible outputs and check to see whether each one is correct
11:13:10 <ais523> the shortest implementation of integer square root I can think of involves checking all numbers from n to 0 downwards until you find one whose square is less than or equal to n, for example
11:13:20 <ais523> …but this is one of the worst possible algorithms you could be using in practice
11:13:50 <ais523> (this is assuming that you don't have a builtin, e.g. because you're implementing the builtin)
11:16:40 <ais523> hmm, now I'm wondering whether implementing it in terms of float sqrt would be faster, the issue is dealing with potential rounding errors but maybe there's some terse way to correct for that
11:17:04 <ais523> err, terser, not faster
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11:51:29 <strerror> It might be secretly a contest to make a golfing AI--each of the 400 functions is scored by itself, so they have to be golfed separately even if they have similar subprograms
11:52:43 <strerror> (It's also uncertain whether they intended the contest to be about this)
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12:02:16 <HackEso> It would have been certainly so, but `8ball refused to coöperate.
12:03:56 <int-e> Ah, found the link above.
12:07:35 <int-e> yeah this is clearly angling for ML
12:11:07 <int-e> Can't even access the problems without entering a contract with them.
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12:28:25 <wib_jonas> ais523: yes, if you have a floating point type that has a significand at least a few bits larger than the integer input (eg. 32-bit integer and 64-bit double) then I think you can covert to float, add 0.5, take square root, then convert to integer rounding towards zero or down. this is very terse in many languages like C because the type
12:28:25 <wib_jonas> conversions can often by implicit.
12:31:08 <wib_jonas> as for that golf contest, hey look, https://rosettacode.org website is accessible again, great
12:33:00 <ais523> wib_jonas: I was mostly thinking about the case where you don't have a big enough float type
12:33:09 <ais523> can 64-bit floats let you square-root 64-bit integers?
12:33:34 <int-e> (I'm really just interested in how varied the problems are... is it all conversions from some input image into and output image? is there text processing too? are there any actual algorithms or just input/output pairs?
12:33:51 <wib_jonas> well, it might be, but it won't be as golfy
12:34:43 <int-e> (So not interested in actually solving any of them.)
12:35:08 <wib_jonas> I guess you'd need a few trial squaring after you get an approxiate square root using the floating-point number
12:38:15 <int-e> let x = realToFrac $ (2^32 - 1)^2 + 1; y = realToFrac $ (2^32 - 1)^2 - 1 in x == y
12:38:23 <int-e> > let x = realToFrac $ (2^32 - 1)^2 + 1; y = realToFrac $ (2^32 - 1)^2 - 1 in x == y
12:39:15 <int-e> (this kind of thing makes it rather unlikely)
12:46:34 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/A cubic box full of dried miscellaneous rock pieces form a beach for user's own playground]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163019&oldid=162956 * Pifrited * (+504) /* xixixixixi Lang */
12:47:38 <esolangs> [[User talk:Pifrited/A cubic box full of dried miscellaneous rock pieces form a beach for user's own playground]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163020&oldid=163006 * Pifrited * (+120)
12:48:58 <strerror> int-e: the ARC problems are all image-to-image (or grids of integers 0-9, as there are only 10 "colours") but each problem has its own implicit rules shown by the example pairs, they're kind of like riddles
12:49:18 <strerror> ais523: a 64-bit float has a 53-bit mantissa so it can represent every int n with error less than sqrt(n)/2, so the float sqrt should work
12:51:54 <int-e> the float square root should get you within 1 of the desired answer
12:53:15 <int-e> But I think you'll have to square and test (or something eqivalent) once to find the final answer.
13:07:47 <ais523> re: that arcprize codegolfing, I think I understand why they want it – the shortest description of the problem is likely the one that generalises best
13:08:03 <ais523> the inefficient brute-force solution is actually the desirable one, here
13:09:36 <ais523> evaluating that sort of solution might be hard, though
13:09:46 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/A cubic box full of dried miscellaneous rock pieces form a beach for user's own playground]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163021&oldid=163019 * Pifrited * (+490)
13:16:09 <int-e> Eh the contest design is fine for what it is. But it doesn't appeal to me. And I do believe that they should give you a small but representative sample set of tasks before you sign up formally.
13:19:18 <int-e> Context matters. This could be an ICFP programming contest and I'd probably feel a bit different about it then.
13:23:33 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163022&oldid=162798 * Hotcrystal0 * (+34)
13:33:12 <ais523> there are plenty of public arcprize tasks
13:33:41 <ais523> but, there has to be a list of tasks that they're trying very hard to not allow into AI training data, as it would defeat their purpose
13:43:21 <wib_jonas> strerror: wait, what is this ARC image problems thing? that sounds very interesting, I was thinking there should be image to image golf problems, and this may or may not be similar
13:44:52 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/A cubic box full of dried miscellaneous rock pieces form a beach for user's own playground]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163023&oldid=163021 * Pifrited * (+320)
13:46:42 <wib_jonas> ais523: it may be worth to check what the blue book says about integer square root. I think it talks about how to compute it, but I don't recall if floats are involved. b_jonas may check it at home where I have the book on my shelf – it's too far to reach from wib_jonas
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13:53:25 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/A cubic box full of dried miscellaneous rock pieces form a beach for user's own playground]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163024&oldid=163023 * Pifrited * (+173) /* Whats the shape of the earth? */
13:58:54 <strerror> wib_jonas: Google has turned the ARC AI problem set into, I suppose you could think of these as 400 image golf problems now: https://www.kaggle.com/competitions/google-code-golf-2025
14:00:12 <strerror> They're just using the 2024 training problems for this contest, which are already public
14:02:07 <strerror> Hopefully they're creating additional private tests for these though, to prevent hardcoding
14:04:17 <strerror> (The problems can be browsed on the website: https://arcprize.org/play?task=007bbfb7)
14:07:07 <ais523> so arcprize has four sets: an easy and difficult public set, a difficult mostly-private set (has been sent over LLM APIs but not published online), and a difficult truly-private set (which only interacts with programs running on their own hardware, so they can prevent them exfiltrating details)
14:08:50 <ais523> it crossed my mind, while I was AFK, that maybe generating small esoprograms and using them to produce output would be an interesting way to produce patterns that aren't biased by human experience
14:09:10 <esolangs> [[SARCASM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163025&oldid=163018 * RainbowDash * (+38) Python implment
14:09:25 <ais523> although you would probably need some sort of recursive RLE step to make exponentially growing patterns small enough for humans to grasp
14:10:23 <wib_jonas> is the scoring described somewhere?
14:10:26 <ais523> the problem would be a "continue the pattern" type of problem
14:10:46 <ais523> wib_jonas: I picked it up from articles on their blog, it's % of problems for which a correct answer is submitted
14:10:57 <ais523> presumably on the first try
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14:22:42 <strerror> Exponentially growing outputs might be a bit too unnatural, and unphysical
14:24:04 <strerror> If the outputs are constrained to a spatial grid, that reminds me of MJ (a successor to the WFC method) -- https://github.com/mxgmn/MarkovJunior
14:24:37 <strerror> The example programs are quite short, and chosen for human interest but some randomly sampled programs might behave differently
14:25:18 <ais523> oh right, we could use a wrapping memory space
14:25:20 <strerror> Alternatively you could project an exponential output to a space that can contain it, like a hyperbolic plane
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14:59:21 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163026&oldid=162451 * Hotcrystal0 * (+49)
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15:22:19 <esolangs> [[Easyfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163028&oldid=119733 * Ractangle * (+0)
15:26:31 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Myalt2334 * New user account
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15:32:26 <esolangs> [[User:Myalt2334]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163030 * Myalt2334 * (+174) made the page
15:38:14 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/A cubic box full of dried miscellaneous rock pieces form a beach for user's own playground]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163031&oldid=163024 * Pifrited * (+447)
15:51:13 <esolangs> [[Easyfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163032&oldid=163028 * PkmnQ * (+5324) /* Constants (shortest) */
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16:30:34 <esolangs> [[Emoticode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163033 * Myalt2334 * (+3283) Created page "Emoticode"
16:31:25 <esolangs> [[Emoticode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163034&oldid=163033 * Myalt2334 * (+13)
16:32:22 <esolangs> [[Emoticode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163035&oldid=163034 * Myalt2334 * (+56)
16:34:26 <esolangs> [[Emoticode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163036&oldid=163035 * Myalt2334 * (+11) polishing
16:36:21 <esolangs> [[Emoticode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163037&oldid=163036 * Myalt2334 * (+5) /* Flush */
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16:41:59 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163039&oldid=163038 * Myalt2334 * (+23) /* Brainfuck derivatives */
16:44:05 <esolangs> [[User:Myalt2334]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163040&oldid=163030 * Myalt2334 * (+47)
16:44:16 <esolangs> [[User:Myalt2334]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163041&oldid=163040 * Myalt2334 * (+0)
16:49:57 <esolangs> [[Emoticode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163042&oldid=163037 * Myalt2334 * (+413)
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16:50:43 <esolangs> [[User:Myalt2334]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163044&oldid=163041 * Myalt2334 * (+50)
16:51:26 <esolangs> [[User:Myalt2334]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163045&oldid=163044 * Myalt2334 * (+12)
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16:52:26 <esolangs> [[Emoticode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163047&oldid=163046 * Myalt2334 * (-2) /* Credits */
17:19:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:Myalt2334]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163048 * Myalt2334 * (+118) Created page with "pls think my esolang is cool --~~~~"
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17:42:07 <esolangs> [[Arch is the best!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163049&oldid=125832 * WarzokERNST135 * (+49)
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17:57:38 <b_jonas> I checked the blue book. it does talk about integer square root, but not about how to compute it using floating point square root
18:02:38 <esolangs> [[User:/nil]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163050&oldid=162808 * WarzokERNST135 * (+25)
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20:13:30 <esolangs> [[SJBF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163054 * A() * (+387) Created page with "[[SJBF]] or Scratch Junior [[BF]],is a [[BF]] derivative based on Scratch Junior made by [[User:A()]]. ==Commands== > < + -|if belowzero Broadcast message} Message|Code} , . ==Programs== ===InfLoop=== -|#1} #1|+>[x]<-|#1}} ===Truth Machine=== ,-|#1}#1|+>+.-<-|#1}} ===
20:16:01 <esolangs> [[SJBF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163055&oldid=163054 * A() * (+36)
20:18:06 <esolangs> [[SJBF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163056&oldid=163055 * A() * (+0)
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20:20:36 <esolangs> [[SJBF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163060&oldid=163059 * A() * (-23)
20:23:50 <esolangs> [[User:A()]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163061&oldid=160455 * A() * (+26) /* Esolangs */
20:31:47 <esolangs> [[Infinite noise automata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163062&oldid=157847 * RainbowDash * (-2793) Deleted it for a reason, the updated page is on Noise Automata, whoever wants this page can take it.
20:34:57 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163063&oldid=159536 * RainbowDash * (+54) sarcasm
21:00:03 <esolangs> [[KofThatChickonBonkHeadAndEatITAfterDinnerWithTHeKids0rElseWEwIllDiE,S0PleseDoITForUSWhiLeWestillAreALIVEPLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163064 * A() * (+789) Created page with "[[KofThatChickonBonkHeadAndEatITAfterDinnerWithTHeKids0rElseWEwIllDiE,S0PleseDoITForUSWhiLeWestillAreALIVEPLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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21:25:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Python nerd1235 * New user account
21:51:15 <esolangs> [[Talk:List of quines]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163065&oldid=150706 * Ractangle * (+175) /* Where is Python 3 */
22:08:12 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/12]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163066&oldid=162785 * Hotcrystal0 * (+134)
22:10:17 <esolangs> [[Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163067&oldid=158115 * Hotcrystal0 * (+6) br tag
22:13:40 <esolangs> [[Template:Stubnoinfo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163068&oldid=161700 * Ractangle * (+6) aaa
22:14:30 <esolangs> [[Burn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163069&oldid=163067 * Ractangle * (-6) oops, I used the nowiki tag for the template