00:00:38 <esolangs> [[Crazy?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163660&oldid=163659 * Mouldyair * (+0) fixed incorrect category
00:01:46 <esolangs> [[Crazy?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163661&oldid=163660 * Mouldyair * (-149)
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00:54:11 <esolangs> [[User:Mouldyair]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163662 * Mouldyair * (+169) Created page with "i make useless esolangs sometimes, sometimes i make useless websites instead. #FREESMR esolangs i made: <br> [[BadEsolangIMadeForABet | BEIMFAB]] <br> [[Crazy?]] <br>"
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02:45:43 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163663&oldid=163519 * Ian-nai * (+12)
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09:28:35 <esolangs> [[Guh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163664&oldid=162547 * Ractangle * (+2) /* tab */
09:34:26 <esolangs> [[Guh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163665&oldid=163664 * Ractangle * (-44) /* Commands */
09:35:30 <esolangs> [[Guh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163666&oldid=163665 * Ractangle * (+2) /* guh */
09:40:26 <esolangs> [[Guh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163667&oldid=163666 * Ractangle * (+36) /* Commands */
09:41:21 <esolangs> [[Guh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163668&oldid=163667 * Ractangle * (-13) /* Commands */
09:42:44 <esolangs> [[Guh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163669&oldid=163668 * Ractangle * (-33) /* Commands */
09:43:26 <esolangs> [[Unstoppable]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163670 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+831) Created page with "'''Unstoppable''' is a two-dimensional esolang by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]]. Name comes from the lack of NOPs. ==Description== The language has a stack and a program on an infinite repeating grid *<code>0</code> and <code>1</code> - pushh a corresponding digit
09:43:37 <esolangs> [[Unstoppable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163671&oldid=163670 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-1)
09:44:10 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163672&oldid=163653 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+18) /* 2025 */
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10:47:17 <esolangs> [[Universal Turing-completness Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163673&oldid=108799 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-2338) Blanked the page
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12:04:55 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08/Interpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163674&oldid=144778 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1) /* brainfuck in Uppercase=Lowercase */ fixed an error
12:05:12 <esolangs> [[Uppercase=Lowercase]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163675&oldid=142683 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+2) /* brainfuck interpreter */
12:35:44 <esolangs> [[SStack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163676&oldid=121660 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+28) /* Commands */ I am not sure what ~x~ meant but it was most likely a pop command
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16:26:36 <Sgeo> "Single-precision floating-point numbers are the kind most often used in
16:26:36 <Sgeo> calculations, since "real-world" applications usually need numbers with
16:26:36 <Sgeo> fractional parts. (Prices are a good example.)"
16:26:39 <Sgeo> https://www.pcjs.org/documents/books/mspl13/basic/qblearn/
16:40:17 <strerror> 1988… the x87 FPU was still a separate product
16:42:45 <strerror> Double precision may have been too slow to use as a default type without hardware support
16:46:17 <Sgeo> So beware: NOT expression is false only if expression evaluates to a value
16:46:17 <Sgeo> of -1. If you define Boolean constants or variables for use in your
16:46:17 <Sgeo> programs, use -1 for true.
16:46:22 <Sgeo> https://www.pcjs.org/documents/books/mspl13/basic/qbprog/
16:57:28 <ais523> Microsoft's later versions of BASIC also used -1 for true
16:57:41 <ais523> I think it may have been intended to avoid needing separate logical and bitwise operators
16:58:22 <ais523> in general, -1 for true seems to be the most hardware-friendly implementation (you also have weirdnesses like x86_64 using 1 for true in setcc instructions but -1 for true in SIMD)
17:03:22 <Sgeo> I saw a computer running Cassette BASIC recently (I think they just didn't have a floppy for it to boot anything), so that sort of revitalized my interest. Didn't know QBasic&QuickBASIC had a way to define custom types
17:04:01 <Sgeo> Or that QB64 and forks aren't as backwards compatible as I assumed (no DEF FN support, which exists in QBasic/QuickBASIC even if not recommended). And PC-BASIC as a GW-BASIC clone
17:06:57 <Sgeo> I know BBC BASIC and Locomotive BASIC were pretty well liked and better for structured programming, I wonder how they compare to QuickBASIC
17:17:32 <esolangs> [[Computable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163677&oldid=163658 * Corbin * (+956) /* Via Diophantine equations */ Still puzzling this out. Robinson 1952 doesn't actually do what Matiyasevich says it does? The definition of JR set differs between authors? The other two papers are paywalled and I'll have to grab them later.
17:19:58 <korvo> Okay, I still have to figure out what happened in the 1950s, but at least I understand the M part of MRDP.
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18:09:55 <esolangs> [[Computable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163678&oldid=163677 * Corbin * (+460) /* Via Diophantine equations */ Clean out the irrelevant and give a decent story. References include three good perspectives; from D, M, and R no less!
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19:30:57 <esolangs> [[Algebraic Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163679&oldid=163647 * Corbin * (-10) /* Computability */ Bluelink.
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20:28:01 <Sgeo> " It's possible, as any computer science student will tell you, to write entire programs without ever using a GOTO statement. That may be carrying structured programming too far, but the structured IF is a much-needed addition to BASIC.
20:28:04 <Sgeo> https://www.atarimagazines.com/compute/issue80/ibm_personal_computing_quickbasic.php
20:57:05 <b_jonas> Sgeo: structured IF is great, but the syntax chosen for BASIC also sucks. If I ever make my BASIC dialect (unlikely, because I'll instead use a non-BASIC language for whatever purpose the BASIC would serve), I'll add an alternate syntax that's just WHEN...WEND looking like WHILE...WEND but it's a conditional
20:57:22 <b_jonas> and WHEN...WELSE...WEND if you want an else branch
20:59:50 <b_jonas> I might be getting history wrong here, but as far as I understand, BASIC started out with a structured FOR but no strucured IF because it just copied what Fortran did at the time
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21:05:55 <Sgeo> Not a lot of BASICs with built in matrix manipulation, right?
21:06:03 <Sgeo> Besides the original
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21:25:14 <ais523> b_jonas: yes, BASIC's syntax is bad, but I don't think WHEN…WEND would be an improvement :-D
21:26:12 <ais523> also, I think the standard loop in Fortran is DO which is even weirder syntax-wise
21:26:41 <ais523> the loop header specifies the line number where the loop ends, there isn't any particular marking for the end of the loop so you just have to remember that its particular line number has been marked as a loop end
21:26:55 <ais523> I think this mechanism is often compared to COME FROM
21:55:17 <b_jonas> ais523: I think that's only old Fortran, but I don't know if Fortran fixed it before or after BASIC started its FOR..NEXT loops
21:55:30 <b_jonas> and yes, that totally sounds like COME FROM
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22:13:39 <zzo38> I didn't know they did that in Fortran, but some binary formats will indicate the end of a block in a similar way
22:14:10 <zzo38> Another variant of COME FROM would be that the line must be marked as one which is used by COME FROM without saying what line will come from that one
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22:43:25 <ais523> I've used disassemblers which mark jump targets in the disassembly, it's sometimes useful
22:43:34 <ais523> so maybe the ideal is for both ends of a jump to mark the other
22:58:51 <b_jonas> aren't both ends marked in basically every language, with the big exception of early BASICs that force every line to have a line number because that's what the editor uses to refer to them?
22:59:20 <b_jonas> one end (usually the target) is marked by a line label or line number, the other end by a statement like go to or go sub
22:59:45 <b_jonas> (often behind a conditional)
23:01:30 <b_jonas> the problem is that BASIC uses line numbers for a dual purpose: for the editor, and as jump targets, so you can't easily tell which lines are jump targets
23:18:07 <zzo38> I had used in assembly language for the jump target to specify where it jumps from in some cases, which is similar, so it is not only in a disassembler. Usually I think only one side needs to specify which side is the other side, although both sides will be marked as from or to