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00:56:35 <korvo> Ugh, I think I need two sorts of pattern-matching syntax for two different sorts of free monoids, one packed and one unpacked. Like, strings vs lists.
00:57:21 <korvo> To match a list, I want something like [Start..., Patt1, 'literal', Patt2, End...] but for a string I guess I need something like Start... Patt1 'literal' Patt2 End...
00:58:17 <korvo> Juxtaposition is concatenation, yes, but it's only *one* sort of concatenation. I can either concat lists or strings that way, but not both. It seems like string concatenation is the better pick given the history of syntax?
01:36:11 <ais523> I'm not sure what you mean by packed vs. unpacked here
01:36:50 <ais523> is this the "search for a substring vs. search for an element" problem?
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02:35:51 <korvo> Yes, same problem. I'm currently pondering the concrete syntax; I think that my semantics already cover the search.
02:37:55 <korvo> Unrelated: yet another person realizes that FizzBuzz is an I/O problem https://github.com/nrposner/fizzcrate
02:38:02 <ais523> I think most languages which have solved this problem do it using a spread operator
02:38:31 <ais523> that causes a list-like thing to be treated by its surroundings as multiple elements rather than a single element
02:38:48 <ais523> but, there isn't agreement on what to call it (I've seen both * and ...)
02:39:27 <ais523> one nice thing about using ... for it is that it mirrors the use of ... in varargs, which is basically an anti-spread operator that bundles multiple arguments into a single list
02:40:32 <ais523> Perl solves the problem using its sigils, @x is always a list and spreads, $x is always a single element and doesn't spread
02:40:44 <korvo> I do have a flattening operator, but the semantics won't permit a generic spread. Instead I have to build a little list-of-lists and flatten multiple times. Might be something I could fix later with sugar.
02:40:47 <ais523> (although it needs two different list constructors)
02:41:03 <ais523> (to specify whether you're creating a spreading list or a single element)
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02:41:39 <ais523> I feel like having a spread operator as sugar is probably saner than the Perl method of doing things
02:42:19 <ais523> in which it's actually part of the language semantics/type system (actually it's more or less the only thing that's type-system-level in Perl…)
02:42:53 <korvo> Under the hood, Zaddy represents strings as atomic packed objects; there's a single reference to a hashmap with all of the stored code points. Lists are represented as if they were structures, but with a hack to allow lists of any length.
02:43:54 <korvo> So spreading into a list would be very messy because it would require some sort of nested-structure tree which is specific to lists. All other structures are torn apart into pieces, with each branch getting its own individual structure and storage.
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02:47:01 <korvo> Ugh, sorry. I have a rubber duck on my desk for this sort of thing.
02:48:55 <ais523> actually, the way Rust does this is quite neat: _ represents any single element, .. represents 0 or more elements, and it also has an operator for naming part of a match
02:49:08 <ais523> so if you want to match a substring, you just write .. and name it
02:49:26 <ais523> but I'm not sure that would really help in your situation
02:52:18 <esolangs> [[ABrainloller]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163751 * None1 * (+2263) Created page with "{{lang|a=User:None1}} It is [[Brainloller]] but uses only English letters. {|style="text-align:center;" !Color !RGB !Function !ABrainloller |- |style="background:#ff0000;"|red |(255,0,0) |<code>></code> |A |- |style="background:#800000;"|darkred |(128,0,0) |<code><<
02:52:41 <esolangs> [[ABrainloller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163752&oldid=163751 * None1 * (+1) /* Hello, World */
02:54:16 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163753&oldid=163748 * None1 * (+19) /* A */
02:55:04 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163754&oldid=163432 * None1 * (+69)
02:59:11 <korvo> ais523: My current thought is that "unrestricted Zaddy", a not-yet-implemented variant, should be TC on the rules alone. So what do I actually need to use the rules for parsing, so that I don't need to carry a parsing formalism too? I worked out that doing CYK in Zaddy is feasible, given that I have some way to crack into the initial input string.
02:59:12 <esolangs> [[ABrainloller]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163755&oldid=163752 * None1 * (+26)
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07:47:03 <esolangs> [['Python' is not recognized]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163756&oldid=154728 * Ractangle * (+7) /* Implementation */
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08:21:39 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08/Interpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163757&oldid=163699 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+344) Added Echo Tag in CDILOI
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08:35:02 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mayx * New user account
08:39:32 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163758&oldid=163745 * Mayx * (+91)
08:40:26 <esolangs> [[User:Mayx]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163759 * Mayx * (+16) Created page with "Hello, I am Mayx"
08:47:22 <esolangs> [[EsoInterpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163760&oldid=152063 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+2735) Added Echo Tag in CDILOI
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08:56:09 <esolangs> [[User:Mayx]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163761&oldid=163759 * Mayx * (+28)
09:03:47 <esolangs> [[Capuirequiem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163762&oldid=83337 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+61)
09:04:04 <esolangs> [[Capuirequiem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163763&oldid=163762 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-1)
09:05:44 <esolangs> [[VERPNL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163764&oldid=163527 * PrySigneToFry * (+18)
09:07:27 <esolangs> [[EsoInterpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163765&oldid=163760 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-28) New link for brainfuck in Capuirequiem
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10:49:32 <esolangs> [[User:Mayx]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163766&oldid=163761 * Mayx * (+89)
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13:01:47 <esolangs> [[PAC-PI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163767&oldid=157280 * LillyHStClaire * (+12) fix clipping of text
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14:03:45 <esolangs> [[Soallang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163768&oldid=144487 * HungKhanh0106 * (-67)
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14:37:09 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/PasteBin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163769&oldid=163424 * Pifrited * (+381)
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15:28:41 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163771 * Tommyaweosme * (+963) Created page with "Esochain is a wiki game where you list esolangs with the same first letter as the last letter of the one before it. You cannot use the same language twice on the same server. A server "dies" once there are no esolangs left starting with that letter. It can be
15:28:52 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163772&oldid=163771 * Tommyaweosme * (+2) /* Example */
16:54:24 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163773&oldid=163772 * Aadenboy * (+10) /* Server 1 */ self promo moment
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17:04:18 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Analog wizard * New user account
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19:25:25 <int-e> korvo: I was happy to see that one of yesterday's users actually created a page on the wiki so they were probably just venting their genuine frustration about the extra hoop to jump through. ( https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Iamnotanuser )
19:26:06 <korvo> int-e: That's great news.
19:26:29 <int-e> (Just another Brainfuck derivative... but meh, that's still the norm for a first esolang.)
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21:10:49 <esolangs> [[TOPLWARLNTMIHTACAFFTPLAIHTASTNBIHTMAIAIU]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163774&oldid=163720 * TeraByte * (+5)
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21:33:35 <esolangs> [[TOPLWARLNTMIHTACAFFTPLAIHTASTNBIHTMAIAIU]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163775&oldid=163774 * TeraByte * (+428) Added truth machine
21:34:13 <esolangs> [[TOPLWARLNTMIHTACAFFTPLAIHTASTNBIHTMAIAIU]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163776&oldid=163775 * TeraByte * (+13) Added missing pre tag
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22:11:50 <esolangs> [[Stitchii]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163777 * GluonVelvet * (+3678) Created page with "Stitchii is a language by [[user:GluonVelvet]] whose design principle is to be made out of as many different parts as possible. Make every language component in different languages and combine them together to make a language that either disregards or takes advanta
22:12:44 <esolangs> [[Stitchii]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163778&oldid=163777 * GluonVelvet * (+51)
23:13:49 <esolangs> [[Codossa]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163779 * LEOMOK * (+1803) Created page with "'''Codossa''' is an esoteric programming language inspired by the linguistic experiment [http://wikipedia:Viossa Viossa]. It is an experiment for us to try to teach a programming language by writing programs with their expected inputs and outputs, without relying on natu
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