> 1756253139 927744 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163888&oldid=163338 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+32) 10
< 1756253173 367785 :Artea!~Lufia@artea.pt JOIN #esolangs Artea :Artea ElFo
> 1756253198 968219 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163889&oldid=163888 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-1019) 10
< 1756254110 786943 :purism!~purism@2600:4041:1eb:3800:89c1:78db:e440:3c98 JOIN #esolangs * :based
> 1756254454 596468 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Merriment14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163890&oldid=163787 5* 03AlephSquirrel 5* (+413) 10Add v0.2 stuff
< 1756254517 179979 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :<C99 rationale, as quoted by Wikipedia in the article about NaN> The result of pow(−2, ∞) is +∞, because all large positive floating-point values are even integers.
< 1756254519 988968 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is amazing
< 1756254988 458863 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Deeply inspirational. I feel much better about my own crimes against IEEE 754 now.
< 1756255015 148836 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I feel like the programming community still hasn't decided on what floats actually are – are they approximations of real numbers, or are they a number system that is only able to represent a finite set of numbers that is denser near the origin?
< 1756255071 973825 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or are they one used to represent the other?
< 1756255103 399031 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Or are they a data structure best understood as a disjoint union of rows of bits? Is the true nature of floats NaN smuggling, fast inverse sqrt and fast log2, mantissa twiddling, etc?
< 1756255107 680972 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :most operations on floats individually make sense in at least one of the three views, but the ways in which they're typically combined don't really, and the distinction isn't normally clarified well
< 1756255137 200056 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh right, the integer/float reinterpret thing is also relevant sometimes
< 1756255176 861477 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although less so than it used to be, e.g. fast inverse sqrt and integer log2 are both processor builtins on recent x86-64 and probably also on its competitors
< 1756255273 725578 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ooh, this conversation reminds me of an idea I had recently – when reference counting, you want to avoid reference count overflows as that can lead to memory unsoundness, which is normally implemented by saturating the reference count, but saturating integer arithmetic is a bit more verbose in asm than I'd like it to be
< 1756255290 314363 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :especially as the operation you want here is "when trying to increment or decrement INT_MAX, it stays as INT_MAX"
< 1756255316 41295 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but! there is an operation that does automatically saturate in exactly that way: doubling and halving floats, which saturates at infinity
< 1756255341 82652 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it has made me wonder whether storing reference counts as floats might actually make sense
< 1756255371 802793 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah! There *are* other data structures with this property, particularly Gosper-style continued logarithms, but they're pretty rare.
< 1756255400 320350 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(unfortunately, unless you're using a DAZ+FTZ FPU configuration, which would be nonstandard and break the semantics of many programs, you wouldn't be able to make use of the underflow-to-zero behaviour without a huge performance penalty)
< 1756255410 384656 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And we could argue that a continued logarithm is just a really bad way of writing a float which is mostly exponent and has maybe one bit of mantissa.
< 1756255752 165234 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the main reason I don't want to write my reference counting in terms of floats is that all the mantissa bits would be wasted, unless I can figure out something to store in them that's OK to lose when the reference count saturates
< 1756255822 641326 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess converting an 8-bit reference count to a float mantissa, doubling it, and converting back might still be faster than the branchy implementation of saturating arithmetic, but it probably isn't
< 1756255844 48759 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The mantissa *is* a fairly nice binary fraction in [0, 1]. But yeah, it's kind of delicate.
< 1756255902 720668 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, you can store a pointer there – sort-of like NaN-boxing but with a valid exponent
< 1756255913 274001 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the pointer would disappear when the refcount saturated
< 1756255930 955662 :purism!~purism@2600:4041:1eb:3800:89c1:78db:e440:3c98 QUIT :Quit: purism
< 1756255943 623949 :purism!~based2997@2600:4041:1eb:3800:89c1:78db:e440:3c98 JOIN #esolangs * :based
< 1756256036 269602 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ooh – I just realised that reference count saturation is the way you implement it in kernels and similar high-availability software that can't fail-fast
< 1756256041 168270 :purism!~based2997@2600:4041:1eb:3800:89c1:78db:e440:3c98 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1756256068 500776 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but for regular usermode software, you normally want reference count saturation to give you a crash instead; I just thought that that would be slower because you would have to test for the saturation case
< 1756256073 469851 :based299792458!~based2997@2600:4041:1eb:3800:89c1:78db:e440:3c98 JOIN #esolangs * :based
< 1756256159 440818 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :however: if you are reference-counting a pointer (which admittedly isn't the common case because normally the reference count is pointed to, not on the pointer), a reference overflow would set the float to infinity, which has a zero mantissa, so it would null out the pointer
< 1756256184 237129 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, that's fun. The unified theory of GC says that there should be a mirrored concept, and I think it's the phenomenon of an object which lives forever because it's been accidentally promoted to eden/paradise (in a generational setup) or that just got leaked.
< 1756256230 718498 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Clever. Maybe too clever?
< 1756256246 281036 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so now I'm trying to figure out a way to get that null dereference to give you the fail-fast behaviour on reference count overflow
< 1756256251 744583 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It sounds portable to IEEE 754, though.
< 1756256255 460142 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess the obvious thing to put there would be a vtable
< 1756256297 843946 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, this is something that 99% of programmers would consider too clever, but from my point of view, as long as it's sound and you can prove it works, and it's more efficient, why not use it?
< 1756256305 11014 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Store the destruction function in the fraction bits if it bits, but I do not expect it to fit.
< 1756256347 810418 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the code address of it would fit, at least if using double-precision floats
< 1756256376 381443 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you have 53 bits, most processors don't have a virtual address space that big, even on processors that do you could just ensure you loaded the program at a low enough address
< 1756256381 134428 :based299792458!~based2997@2600:4041:1eb:3800:89c1:78db:e440:3c98 CHGHOST ~based2997 :user/based299792458
< 1756256435 935673 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :If you are programming it in a way that can guarantee that it is working like that, then yes, but if you are trying to write a portable program in C then it will not work, unless it points to VM code or something like that instead, in which case maybe it will work.
< 1756256484 208658 :based299792458!~based2997@user/based299792458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :have you guys ever worked with sea of nodes ir
< 1756256502 642367 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right – although this is an interesting portability problem because processors that were even physically capable of loading code at addresses that high only started to be produced in the last few of years
< 1756256506 420009 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* last few years
< 1756256516 260154 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and even the ones that are have no reason to do so
< 1756256552 344583 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but, the C standards maintainers would obviously be reluctant to say "code and static data is never loaded at an address that doesn't fit within the range of a 52-bit signed integer" :-D
> 1756256552 437280 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163891&oldid=163876 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+11) 10
< 1756256615 341297 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess it'd break on platforms like CHERI where pointers are authenticated and 128 bits wide
< 1756256754 696437 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it almost works even on CHERI by treating the data half of the pointer as a float and the auth data as an integer, but CHERI doesn't support the operation of "offset a pointer a very long distance out of bounds and then back to its original location" which is what the float-boxing would effectively do to it)
< 1756256992 887843 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ooh! I figured out how to store a pointer in the mantissa, even on saturation – you just arrange things so that the pointer is accessed after the reference count update, while the old value is still in a register, and handle the segfault!
< 1756257040 814591 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :reference count saturation should be a very rare event, after all
< 1756257099 181024 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I hate so much that our current programming abstractions are bad at implementing this sort of thing – the problem is that this requires a change at the lower levels of abstraction, but it's still nicely contained because the higher levels don't break, so you can reason about it in isolation
< 1756257124 420578 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but in our current models, the higher levels of abstraction generally all regard the lower levels as either fixed, or entirely controlled by higher levels
< 1756257165 741189 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think this is why I care about creating my own ABI, it lets me control the low-level details in a way that doesn't break existing higher-level programs (which are generally designed to be portable to multiple ABIs)
< 1756257205 223144 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :There are other things I had wanted to do that the levels of abstraction in C (and in LLVM, and possibly also the .o file format) make it difficult to do in a reasonably portable way, since otherwise you would have to write a non-portable code
< 1756257221 405006 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :So, maybe it will help? I don't know.
< 1756257233 440749 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think C's notion of non-portable code is the wrong one
< 1756257252 100357 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if I want to write something non-portable I want to do it at the lower levels of abstraction without breaking the higher levels, and C has that backwards
< 1756257366 142033 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like, instead of writing C code that sees through the abstraction, I would want instead to write low-level code in a lower-level language like asm, that provides an extra feature to the higher-level language that it can then make use of
< 1756257391 260515 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and those features often appear in the form of guarantees rather than the form of functions
< 1756257417 761270 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. rules on what pointers look like when converted to integers
< 1756257459 102725 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a C implementation can add such rules without breaking the standard – and I think a C implementation would be more useful if it let you customize that sort of thing
< 1756257555 981196 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the thing about this sort of guarantee is that it's really easy to break by accident, e.g. Rust has functions like f32::from_bits and f64::from_bits and they are the only thing preventing you adding a low-level guarantee like "all NaNs are quiet"
< 1756257572 447129 :based299792458!~based2997@user/based299792458 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1756257697 305405 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :...Drat, I walked away. Sorry, based; I *have* worked with Sea of Nodes and have opinions.
< 1756257766 924681 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION suddenly starts wondering why code/function pointers are 64 bits wide – is it just to give more space for ASLR?

< 1756257779 59177 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like, using more than 4GiB of data, I get it, sometimes that's useful
< 1756257784 839395 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but using more than 4GiB of code?
> 1756257842 22286 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BCSD14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163892 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+1075) 10Created page with "BCSD, or Bit Counts Spiraling Down, is an [[esolang]] created by [[User:Tommyaweosme]]. == Commands ==  00xx - do nothing  01xx - flip xx and print it  10xx - print xx without flipping  11xxx - print the first xxx bits Every line may show the next evolution; only the 
< 1756257891 616812 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, I think that could be useful, but I had also wanted to do such things as: making the addresses of a set of global variables defined in one file to overlap with the addresses of a set of global variables defined in a different file, and making a boolean or other value modified only during initialization of the program to affect a condition or something else in another part of the program.
< 1756257966 334770 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :And, also declaring variables that are not mapped and are allowed to overlap other memory, in case you only care that the addresses are unique (and possibly how much gap after one address before the next one).
< 1756258016 419516 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :likewise it is probably OK to force vtables to the low 4GiB – that both saves you 4 bytes on every object that uses one (in some languages, every object), and prevents an attacker tricking the code into interpreting arbitrary attacker-controlled data as vtables unless they can allocate it in the low 4GiB somehow
> 1756258762 567807 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07P2WFuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163893 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+973) 10Created page with "P2wFuck is a [[PaidFuck]] derivative, which is slightly more serious than [[PaidFuck]] itself. == Commands == Running a specific program for the first time costs $2.99 on top of the command charges, but every subsequent time afterwards, the run fee is $0.49.  > $0.0
< 1756259744 865091 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding .byte 67; mov %rcx, (%rdx)
< 1756259747 651460 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :43: rex.XB \ 48 89 0a: mov    %rcx,(%rdx)
< 1756259763 884337 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding .byte 0x67; mov %rcx, (%rdx)
< 1756259765 471525 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :67 48 89 0a: mov    %rcx,(%edx)
< 1756259792 966568 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aww, for a moment I thought this was gadget-proof, but a gadget could just start reading halfway through the instruction to skip the 0x67 prefix
< 1756259802 484052 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, one quarter of a way through
< 1756259852 213364 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess we could use a dedicated register that only ever stores 32-bit values…
< 1756259880 34416 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"asm intended to be safe even in the presence of exploits" is an esolang, and a fairly interesting one at that
< 1756260386 479083 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Then, hopefully it can be written in esolang wiki
> 1756260685 598684 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Kaascevich 5*  10New user account
< 1756260861 924821 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would need to work out what the specification is, which is likely to be pretty difficult
> 1756261046 630639 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163894&oldid=163784 5* 03Kaascevich 5* (+149) 10/* Introductions */
< 1756261088 925814 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :OK
< 1756261128 77549 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
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> 1756261395 852793 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck implementations14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163895&oldid=161359 5* 03Kaascevich 5* (+188) 10/* Optimizing implementations */
> 1756261476 926368 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck implementations14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163896&oldid=163895 5* 03Kaascevich 5* (+219) 10/* Normal implementations */
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> 1756262000 502085 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nuwora14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163897 5* 03GluonVelvet 5* (+2921) 10Created page with "Nuwora is a language made by [[user:GluonVelvet]] to be as difficult as possible to program in. It uses reverse imperative processing to read code. What this means is it reads code from the bottom to the top and reads all lines from finish to start including all the 
> 1756262227 670317 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nuwora14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163898&oldid=163897 5* 03GluonVelvet 5* (+2) 10/* Cat Program */
< 1756266894 659680 :nitrix_!~nitrix@user/meow/nitrix NICK :nitrix
> 1756267959 967271 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PkmnQ/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163899&oldid=163836 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+2814) 10
< 1756267961 962751 :visilii!~visilii@213.24.125.93 JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in
> 1756268438 429437 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07One Time Cat14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163900&oldid=134790 5* 03Mayx 5* (+27) 10add Malbolge
< 1756270584 259126 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: wait, why doubling and halving the floats, instead of adding and subtracting one to a float, so that only the *exponent* bits are wasted rather than the significand bits
< 1756271071 615912 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that said, I don't see why I'd want to use saturating reference counts for anything
< 1756271084 865735 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org QUIT :Server closed connection
< 1756271107 940294 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org JOIN #esolangs leah2 :Leah Neukirchen
< 1756271264 498267 :strerror!~strerror@user/strerror PRIVMSG #esolangs :It sounded like ais523 was going to put the address in the mantissa bits
< 1756271892 484666 :strerror!~strerror@user/strerror PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know if amd64 has a fast way to halve and double floats, though, and using fmul64 for this seems inefficient
< 1756271987 450826 :strerror!~strerror@user/strerror PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: ARMv8.3+ uses those extra pointer bits for a checksum: https://www.qualcomm.com/content/dam/qcomm-martech/dm-assets/documents/pointer-auth-v7.pdf
< 1756272658 247931 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :A program I wrote in MMIX once, used integer arithmetic to make half of a floating point number (which will not work in some circumstances)
< 1756273138 680876 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"saturating integer arithmetic is a bit more verbose in asm than I'd like it to be" => I think this is false on x86_64.
< 1756273403 359494 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :say you store your reference count as an unsigned integer, 8 or 16 or 32 or 64 bits wide at your choice, it's 0 when there's no references and some large constant unsigned integer, call it MAXREFCNT, when there's so many references that you no longer want to increment or decrement the counter. if you have your reference count in a memory byte/word/dword/qword called refcnt addressible directly with an 
< 1756273409 371192 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :instruction, then it takes two simple integer instructions to do an increment or decrement by one that doesn't change numbers above MAXREFCNT: with intel syntax first `cmp refcnt, MAXREFCNT` so the carry bit is true iff the refcnt is finite, then `adc refcnt, 0` to increment a finite reference count or `sbb refcnt, 0` to decrement a finite refcount, and in the latter case the zero flag indicates if the 
< 1756273415 380817 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :last reference is freed. 
< 1756273451 149872 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think you can hope for anything better than this to increment or decrement with a floating-point value in memory, and with floating-point you'll need extra instructions to figure out when the last reference was decremented off the counter, it won't just appear in a flag for free.
< 1756275533 200253 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1756276984 101480 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1756277735 906208 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
> 1756277780 933690 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple/Source Code14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163901&oldid=163813 5* 03H33T33 5* (+43) 10
> 1756277922 823514 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163902&oldid=160791 5* 03H33T33 5* (-114) 10
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< 1756278098 553291 :based299792458!~based2997@pool-96-235-20-103.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1756279652 346736 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I think even if you want to store the reference count in just a subfield of a 4 or 8 byte value, it's still unlikely that floating-point ops help. unless of course you're going for pure esotericness points, like sacrificing all performance by setting a floating point underflow handler that's called whenever you decrement the reference count to
< 1756279652 846957 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :zero references.
< 1756280207 472716 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine
< 1756280289 570761 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
> 1756280551 276491 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Cycwin/maIsTc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163903&oldid=160185 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+440) 10
< 1756280848 422202 :shikhin!~shikhin@offtopia/offtopian QUIT :Server closed connection
< 1756280855 462923 :shikhin!~shikhin@ahti.space JOIN #esolangs * :shikhin
< 1756281504 724977 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1756281757 430002 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Game:Esochain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163904&oldid=163887 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+5) 10
< 1756284896 240931 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi
< 1756285023 767047 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :new video by the 8-bit guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Jtv8hvau4 about the TI-99/4a early home microcomputer. starts with the claim "Of all of the computers I’ve covered this machine has to be the most bizarre architecture". do you suppose that will mean any esoteric interest?
> 1756285151 966302 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PkmnQ/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163905&oldid=163899 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (-5731) 10Replaced content with "Major overhaul in progress."
> 1756287275 33354 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Permufuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163906 5* 03Pro465 5* (+1426) 10Created page with "{{WIP}} {{stub}}  Permufuck, an esolang created by [[User:Pro465]] in [[:Category:2025|2025]], is a much harder variant of [[brainfuck]]. Each Permufuck program corresponds noninjectively to a brainfuck program, which is given by a pseudorandom permutation of the Permu
< 1756287668 331346 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1756288456 936546 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1756289171 228004 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1756289845 55152 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1756293808 415713 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Game:Esochain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163907&oldid=163904 5* 03C0ffee 5* (+107) 10
> 1756293910 248108 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Game:Esochain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163908&oldid=163907 5* 03C0ffee 5* (+2) 10
> 1756293970 36564 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Game:Esochain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163909&oldid=163908 5* 03C0ffee 5* (+31) 10
< 1756293976 675710 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1756294419 44518 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1756294718 564701 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1756296041 933803 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Permufuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163910&oldid=163906 5* 03Pro465 5* (+8) 10
< 1756296243 494448 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1756296621 714725 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine
> 1756296830 736040 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Game:Esochain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163911&oldid=163909 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+26) 10
> 1756296861 808546 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Game:Esochain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163912&oldid=163911 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+2) 10
< 1756296996 981976 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1756297169 440923 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Game:Esochain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163913&oldid=163912 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+181) 10
> 1756297251 715420 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Game:Esochain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163914&oldid=163913 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+44) 10
< 1756297998 975878 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
> 1756298729 110943 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Permufuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163915&oldid=163910 5* 03Pro465 5* (+614) 10add python program
> 1756298982 292772 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Permufuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163916&oldid=163915 5* 03Pro465 5* (+150) 10/* Description */ clarify on when the program is considered valid
> 1756299987 103178 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Permufuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163917&oldid=163916 5* 03Pro465 5* (-13) 10/* Conversion program (Python) */
> 1756300556 877653 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Game:Esochain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163918&oldid=163914 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+54) 10
> 1756303205 249830 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Unpseudorandom14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163919&oldid=123063 5* 03Krolkrol 5* (-40) 10
> 1756303915 466091 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Game:Esochain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163920&oldid=163918 5* 03AlephSquirrel 5* (+67) 10Add to servers 2 and 5
< 1756303986 874187 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-074-060-031.092.074.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1756304012 619127 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-074-060-031.092.074.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN #esolangs Melvar :melvar
< 1756304332 444219 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-074-060-031.092.074.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1756305083 363154 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Game:Esochain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163921&oldid=163920 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+52) 10add to server 2
> 1756305175 826112 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Game:Esochain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163922&oldid=163921 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+37) 10/* Server 2 */ fix link and add note
< 1756305315 813181 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :When did Windows's window manager switch away from its traditional behavior that when you switch from a maximized window to another window then the former gets minimized? Was it right away between Win16 and Windows 95, or some time later?
< 1756306285 140857 :shikhin!~shikhin@ahti.space CHGHOST ~shikhin :offtopia/offtopian
< 1756306408 210012 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-001-015-185.178.001.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN #esolangs Melvar :melvar
< 1756306428 80001 :chloetax4!~chloe@user/chloetax JOIN #esolangs chloetax :chloe
< 1756306615 967785 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :A BASIC variant where the command to delete (program) files from the casette is spelled DELETE rather than KILL? what kind of censorship is this?
< 1756306920 281909 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1756306920 818855 :visilii!~visilii@213.24.125.93 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1756306921 39749 :nitrix!~nitrix@user/meow/nitrix QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1756306921 470050 :chloetax!~chloe@user/chloetax QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1756306922 186217 :chloetax4!~chloe@user/chloetax NICK :chloetax
< 1756306977 569057 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1756306977 640678 :visilii!~visilii@213.24.125.93 JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1756306977 640752 :nitrix!~nitrix@user/meow/nitrix JOIN #esolangs nitrix :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1756307373 368194 :Everything!~Everythin@31.144.53.103 JOIN #esolangs Everything :Everything
< 1756307860 604738 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1756308871 95417 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1756308941 946091 :visilii!~visilii@213.24.125.93 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1756309838 164314 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1756309970 835533 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Pro46514]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163923&oldid=156107 5* 03Pro465 5* (+18) 10/* Esolangs created */ add permufuck
> 1756310112 857726 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163924&oldid=163830 5* 03Pro465 5* (+16) 10/* P */ add Permufuck
> 1756310273 604420 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Game:Esochain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163925&oldid=163922 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+9) 10/* revreS 2 */ fix server
> 1756310614 569507 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Permufuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163926&oldid=163917 5* 03Pro465 5* (+151) 10add cat program
< 1756310851 237313 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :does esolangs have colors mised into the [[Page]] things?
< 1756310862 795417 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess I should check logs
< 1756310869 595097 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, they're quite colorful.
< 1756310893 837189 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so that's why that ignore isn't working, meh
< 1756310969 628967 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1756310983 996514 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(The Esochain thing annoys me.)
< 1756311072 222198 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'd ask for the power to do something about it, but we all know that I should never be given administrative powers.
< 1756311244 827030 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1756311462 480234 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1756311507 892505 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :<b_jonas> ais523: wait, why doubling and halving the floats, instead of adding and subtracting one to a float, so that only the *exponent* bits are wasted rather than the significand bits ← because adding 1 to a float repeatedly doesn't overflow to infinity
< 1756311543 992262 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it could work if you used a round-upwards rounding mode, but setting that is slow on most processors (I think AVX-512 adds instructions to do it efficiently? although I can't remember whether they work on scalars)
< 1756311866 667078 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I do like your idea of using the carry flag, but I think it might still be verbose than you're expecting because the reference count isn't normally in a register already
< 1756311917 405083 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding add $1, %eax
< 1756311922 996579 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :83 c0 01: add    $0x1,%eax
< 1756311931 748318 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding add $1, 0x4(%eax)
< 1756311933 243604 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :67 83 40 04 01: addl   $0x1,0x4(%eax)
> 1756311963 305291 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Permufuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163927&oldid=163926 5* 03Pro465 5* (+9) 10make the text less janky
< 1756311987 639009 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding cmp $7ffffffe, 0x4(%eax)
< 1756311989 78793 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​{standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: junk `fffffe' after expression \ {standard input}:1: Error: no instruction mnemonic suffix given and no register operands; can't size instruction
< 1756311995 736226 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding cmp $0x7ffffffe, 0x4(%eax)
< 1756311996 996685 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​{standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: no instruction mnemonic suffix given and no register operands; can't size instruction
< 1756312008 792208 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding cmpl $0x7ffffffe, 0x4(%eax)
< 1756312010 275497 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :67 81 78 04 fe ff ff: cmpl   $0x7ffffffe,0x4(%eax) \ 7f
< 1756312035 813157 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding cmpl $0x7ffffffe, 0x4(%rax)
< 1756312037 618841 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :81 78 04 fe ff ff 7f: cmpl   $0x7ffffffe,0x4(%rax)
< 1756312038 186279 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :whoops
< 1756312345 118457 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding adc $0x00, 0x4(%rax)
< 1756312346 487499 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :83 50 04 00: adcl   $0x0,0x4(%rax)
< 1756312368 885225 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, I wonder why the assembler requires an operand size suffix for cmp but not add
< 1756312421 240736 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding adcb $0x00, 0x4(%rax)
< 1756312422 499747 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :80 50 04 00: adcb   $0x0,0x4(%rax)
< 1756312428 496504 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, weird
< 1756312506 837868 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding cmp $0x00, 0x4(%rax)
< 1756312508 352012 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :83 78 04 00: cmpl   $0x0,0x4(%rax)
< 1756312530 156402 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding adc $0x7ffffffe, 0x4(%rax)
< 1756312531 139734 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​{standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: no instruction mnemonic suffix given and no register operands; can't size instruction
< 1756312540 799971 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding cmp $0x01, 0x4(%rax)
< 1756312542 99750 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :83 78 04 01: cmpl   $0x1,0x4(%rax)
< 1756312547 101274 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding cmp $0x101, 0x4(%rax)
< 1756312548 82849 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​{standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: no instruction mnemonic suffix given and no register operands; can't size instruction
< 1756312557 76223 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding cmp $0x81, 0x4(%rax)
< 1756312558 83493 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​{standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: no instruction mnemonic suffix given and no register operands; can't size instruction
< 1756312581 877085 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so if it fits into a signed byte it doesn't complain, is my gues now...
< 1756312612 117451 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but at least it's consistent between cmp and adc)
< 1756312962 926959 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :<int-e> (The Esochain thing annoys me.) ← we really need to have a wiki-wide discussion about topicality at some point
< 1756312991 926706 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :especially, the extent to which people should be allowed to use the site like a social network rather than a documentation site
< 1756313021 86227 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I normally don't try to shut this sort of thing down immediately, but maybe I should
< 1756313140 56524 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Do we have enough hammers to shut it down?
< 1756313164 299327 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if there are clear, agreed rules I would probably be able to enforce them
< 1756313173 670589 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean, I don't think this is a proper use for a Wiki. Any Wiki, really.
< 1756313210 226430 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :when I don't moderate things, partly it's due to a lack of time, and partly it's due to a lack of mental capacity to handle the ensuing arguments
< 1756313231 151481 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :together with the general Esolang rule of "if in doubt, close the browser"
< 1756313248 180533 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it used to be that I just enforced the rules, I didn't make them – but nowadays nobody else is making them, there are other admins but they rarely do anything
< 1756313252 656450 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But if it's confined to a single pager I can ignore the esolangs messages and be happy enough... I just had trouble getting the pattern right.
< 1756313271 816729 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(/ignore is an IRC equivalent to closing the browser)
< 1756313284 716429 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :pager -> page
< 1756313296 374076 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had a similar thing for all of User:A's edits
< 1756313319 876736 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Whom you probably remember.)
< 1756313324 82541 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it would be hard not to
< 1756313377 86621 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am not sure how much consensus there is about "should the wiki be usable like a social network?" nor even who I'd get consensus from – I think someone (korvo?) argued in favour of that sort of thing on Wikipedia a while ago
< 1756313450 842321 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would personally generally prefer everything on the wiki to be kept esolang-related in the sense of "does this help you develop, program in, document or understand esolangs and esoteric programming?"
< 1756313457 98297 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I'm in favor of inclusion in the main namespace and also in favor of special-interest groups, wikiprojects, etc. But really what I mean by that is that I left English WP because Esperanza was dissolved and admins kept deleting articles that I had put effort into.
< 1756313457 776203 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well there's a whole User: namespace for socializing.
< 1756313475 467732 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: oh yes, the esochain thing is in the wrong namespace
< 1756313477 834736 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not in favor of ad-hoc namespaces or going against consensus.
< 1756313507 345857 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I also think that there's a resonable argument that socializing should be banned everywhere, including the User: namespace
< 1756313550 580451 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've been waffling over whether I should signal to PTSF and others that their pastebins and other misuses of user:. Maybe I waffled too long.
< 1756313568 49169 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fwiw my current position on the "correct inclusionism/deletionism policy for Wikipedia" is that it should be almost entirely driven by verifiability
< 1756313576 136011 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :My main problem with the Esochain thing is that it feels like it's just a way to generate edits. Which, sitting on this channel translates to spam.
< 1756313579 178518 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, verifiability by secondary sources
< 1756313592 958312 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if it is, that implies that at least some people care – if it isn't, you can't write an article about it anyway
< 1756313595 136261 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :If it just existed as a mostly static page... I wouldn't even care.
< 1756313628 797396 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, my main problem with the Esochain thing is that a game that uses a list of esolang names as input isn't esolang-related enough to be ontopic
< 1756313641 757134 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Though if you asked whether it should exists I probably would still say no, but out of sight, out of mind works well!)
< 1756313653 753938 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and even for games that are esolang-related, they should be documented on the wiki, but not played on the wiki
< 1756313674 797213 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like, BF Joust has its own servers, we don't play it by editing wiki pages, instead we edit the wiki pages to document the game
< 1756313718 284609 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 JOIN #esolangs * :b_jonas
< 1756313732 236791 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'll say that having subsections called "server" at least makes it look like a Discord parody, which was good for a singular giggle.
< 1756313769 691464 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would like wikiprojects, BTW. Boxes. Knowledge snippets. Generic pages. The wiki is getting to be broad, and it needs better organizational tools to create a more uniform and cohesive presentation of knowledge.
< 1756313793 119559 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, for people who do think it shouldn't be there, I encourage you to say so on the talk page, because doing that makes it easier to delete
< 1756313816 845496 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: wikiprojects in the sense of content organisation rather than in the sense of "here's a list of people who have committed to working on this"?
< 1756313842 366343 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think we have enough editors – especially enough editors who care about content curation rather than just adding new esolang ideas – to staff a wikiproject
< 1756313977 847411 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'll leave a note in a minute. I'd like to point out here that anybody with a database dump can programmatically play the game with (stochastic) perfect play. The goal of such a game, when given to children, is to help them learn to spell and pronounce e.g. animal names; there's no similar need for esoteric language names.
< 1756313984 923194 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fwiw, I have also been considering deleting the language list and making the "semi-serious language list" (which is a silly name for it) into the new Language List, using Category:Languages to replace the purpose of the old language list
< 1756314024 485461 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: fwiw I believe perfect play in that is very difficult because it's a multiplayer game with more than two players, and if that wasn't hard enough, you don't know how many players there are or what the turn order is
< 1756314036 807719 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Or just in the sense of "this article is part of a series on brainfuck", TBH. I'm a brutalist though and I'm not going to insist on a specific presentation without supporting structure, both in the code and in the community.
< 1756314068 573307 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: oh yes, lists and navboxes and series and the like are what I think the best form adding structure to the wiki si
< 1756314070 56722 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* is
< 1756314077 196589 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :esolangs often form related groups
< 1756314106 225857 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :one of the ones I remember best is the whole set of nopfunge derivatives
< 1756314141 351662 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but esolangs are varied enough that I don't think those should be forced into some overarching structure, I think we should do whatever makes the most sense for the series itself, even if it's incompatible with other series
< 1756314173 127182 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION laments how the plural of singular "series" pronounced differently, yet there's no way to distinguish the singular from the plural when writing

< 1756314200 679651 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or, maybe not?
< 1756314237 626593 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I thought the singular was pronounced with a short /i/ near the end and the plural with a long /iː/, but Wiktionary tells me that that's actually a US vs. UK distinction
< 1756314254 807471 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :are Americans more likely to talk about one series at a time than Brits are, and it lead to me inferring an incorrect rule?
< 1756314300 698073 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure. I'm a postmodernist, so I look at [[category:concepts]] or [[category:data types and structures]] as already forcing a lot of structure onto the situation, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Can't have tomatoes, peanuts, pumpkins, or even beans without a supporting pole.
< 1756314329 685428 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was thinking more that categories are for what consistent overarching structure we have, which there are bits of (like computational class categories)
< 1756314349 14402 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and lists and cross-links are more for things that make sense locally within a group of pages but that we wouldn't want to apply to every page on the wiki
> 1756314373 486078 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Game:Esochain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163928&oldid=163884 5* 03Int-e 5* (+378) 10meh
< 1756314377 786887 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :when I write an esolang page, I check it against every category on Esolang:Categorisation to see if it fits
< 1756314735 317976 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(stepping away from the annoyance, it's kind of interesting that as a spam vehicle, this page has been more successful than that other page that was supposed to be edited one character at a time)
> 1756314889 426116 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Game:Esochain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163929&oldid=163928 5* 03Corbin 5* (+557) 10/* This is a spam machine, please delete */ A game that can be played by a script running on a database dump? And it's not even educational.
< 1756314892 422947 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think I might have pointed out that that page was impractical for spamming reasons
< 1756315053 806428 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, maybe there should also be a rule along the lines of "an esolang must exist independently of the page that describes it" – that doesn't mean that it needs to be documented anywhere else or the like, but it must be a case of "think of the esolang, write a page about it" rather than creating a page first and hoping it turns into an esolang
< 1756315101 103299 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are so many pages which are just "you can edit whatever commands you like onto this page" or the like – that's potentially a way to create an esolang (although it tends to not work in practice) but the esolang doesn't exist until later, so maybe the design process should happen offsite
< 1756315122 618503 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :be careful not to outlaw https://esolangs.org/wiki/Real_Fast_Nora%27s_Hair_Salon_3:_Shear_Disaster_Download
< 1756315125 620740 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :;)
< 1756315204 959289 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I don't think that breaks the rules – naming an esolang after a spam page is allowed because the esolang existed before the page about it did
< 1756315223 385572 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the original spam page would have broken the rules, the later page with the same name doesn't
< 1756315239 966765 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :creating a spam page with the intent of later editing it into an esolang would be disallowed, but probably should be?
< 1756315385 901676 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding cmpl $0xfffffffe, (%rax)
< 1756315389 767777 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :83 38 fe: cmpl   $0xfffffffe,(%rax)
< 1756315391 997196 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's hard to /define/ a minimum standard for an esolang. And is anybody going to wade through the existing slop of stubby, non-computing, and example-only languages?
< 1756315404 795163 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding cmpq $0xfffffffe, (%rax)
< 1756315406 443922 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​{standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: operand type mismatch for `cmp'
< 1756315429 268461 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`as-encoding cmpq $0xfffffffffffffffe, (%rax)
< 1756315430 904829 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :48 83 38 fe: cmpq   $0xfffffffffffffffe,(%rax)
< 1756315431 557413 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(non-computing: there are a number of constant output languages, for starters)
< 1756315463 986469 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a constant output language is still well-defined, the main issue is whether it even counts as a programming language (although I think it's OK for esolangs.org to investigate that issue / document thoughts about it)
< 1756315489 815256 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it might make sense to group those languages onto a single page, especially if there is nothing to say about them beyond what string they print
< 1756315503 644610 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Suppose I come across a page like [[esolang:awesome commons liscence]]. How would you like me to mark it? I can create talk pages in every case if you like.
< 1756315521 517247 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :That could be done on a single "meta" page that captures the whole class of constant output languages.
< 1756315547 925820 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: right
< 1756315568 548142 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I'm not sure, normally I just delete those things when someone brings my attention to them
> 1756315590 105716 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Esolang:Awesome commons liscence10]]": offtopic
< 1756315592 123390 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: Is it time to make [[constant language]]? We just have to figure out the bikeshed at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Categorization#Constant_languages
< 1756315777 241360 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1756315778 436217 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: Hmm, I see that the point has been made there already.
< 1756315917 217743 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(ais523 brought it up)
> 1756315972 465215 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ALMBARC12YO14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163930&oldid=127498 5* 03Corbin 5* (+32) 10Identify a TBS.
< 1756316012 244816 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I wasn't thinking that it overflows to infinity, I thought it would overflow to a finite number from which if you subtract 1 it doesn't change, but you're right, that doesn't work. I'll have to think if there's something similar that could work though, like maybe if you add 0.5 bias or something.
< 1756316034 2951 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Apparently many of the youngsters are refugees from a Fandom wiki: https://amogus.fandom.com/wiki/Amogus_Wiki
> 1756316068 245248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Game:Esochain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163931&oldid=163929 5* 03Int-e 5* (+1) 10/* This is a spam machine, please delete */ fix typo
> 1756316082 614854 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07AmogusScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163932&oldid=117800 5* 03Corbin 5* (-51) 10Fix categories.
< 1756316096 119095 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :isn't normally in a register alraedy => that's the advantage of using an integer, because the instructions that I use (cmp, test, adc, sbb) work with a memory output operand
< 1756316175 643654 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :whereas eg. the cmovb instruction only works with register output operand, and I think that's true for SSE2 floating point operands too, but maybe AVX512 changes that or something
< 1756316197 580561 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: A lot of this is a matter of finding the energy to actually consolidate existing contents. Though I guess that there's also value in having a page to point to for new additions, lowering the bar for deletions.
> 1756316215 31766 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Pifrited/PasteBin14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163933 5* 03Corbin 5* (+407) 10Use a proper pastebin please.
< 1756316224 317285 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I, for one, don't see myself actually going through pages looking for existing constant languages.
< 1756316233 582842 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I admit that the just two instructions for incrementing or decrementing only works in the simplest case, often you'll have more instructions than that
< 1756316241 275989 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I hope to demonstrate that I have the energy and what I am mostly looking for is consensus on what to do.
> 1756316312 213340 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Among Us14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163934&oldid=117793 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1) 10Fix categories.
< 1756316396 588435 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I would like to hear the details of how you'd use the floating point method, I can't tell yet how simple it is
> 1756316437 188185 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07AMONGUSISABIGSUSSYBAKAHAHAHAHAHATHISLANGUAGEISREALLYCOOLPLEASEUSEITMYLIFEDEPENDSONITORELSEPLSPLSPLSPLSPLSPLSPLSkahyghdfhm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163935&oldid=117855 5* 03Corbin 5* (-40) 10Fix categories.
> 1756316472 126754 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Point14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163936&oldid=83342 5* 03Unlimiter 5* (-8) 10
> 1756316493 226425 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07AZZTURBLICHINORTYEUSIACNOSIPTYRUTIEOSUNEMEEETIRMSPLAORRRRRRRRRRRRRRHSIFUGISSFGIUUUUUUUUUUUUGUIGSEIUFGYUSGNYGNXWGNYX123456789012345678901145141919810TROSHPPAOCONALMELANGUAGE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163937&oldid=125068 5* 03Corbin 5* (-22) 10Fix categories.
< 1756316560 692151 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: changing the referencing count is just a multiply by 2 / divide by 2, but you would indeed need another instruction to check if it had become zero (only for decrements, though, for obvious reaosns)
> 1756316575 255384 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07JamogusLamogusAmogus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163938&oldid=120041 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1) 10Fix categories.
< 1756316591 905816 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, multiply by 0.5, not divide by 2, obviously
< 1756316611 252149 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the float instructions don't allow literals, so you would need an extra instruction to load the value of the constant to multiply/divide by
< 1756316615 818052 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so, the float method is probably less efficient
> 1756316639 493754 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LOLSUS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163939&oldid=117799 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1) 10Fix categories.
< 1756316673 778998 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that said, the float versions would SIMDify much better, but it's hard to imagine how that situation would ever come up
< 1756316692 924748 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess if you were using scatter/gather to operate on four different reference-counted things in parallel…
< 1756316722 619587 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Oh I think I've just arrived at the same preexisting esolang idea... because while the wiki is ostensibly about documenting esolangs, as a reader it's much more valuable to have a diversity of ideas. And if you make up an esolang just because you want to leave a mark on the wiki... well... it's likely to be another instance of the most unoriginal concepts that we already have a dozen...
< 1756316723 191633 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, I got that part, but I'm less familiar with how the floating point instructions work than the integer, especially how easily you can do a conditional call when the last reference is freed, and whether avx2 or avx512 could help with this in some way. 
< 1756316728 626884 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :...times on the wiki.
> 1756316766 793000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163940&oldid=117791 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1) 10Fix categories.
> 1756316810 303914 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Suscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163941&oldid=117795 5* 03Corbin 5* (-17) 10Fix categories.
< 1756316830 326679 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: looks like the instruction you'd need is UCOMISS (SSE and later)
< 1756316845 636529 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( Maybe we should require rationales... "Why another esolang?" :-P )
> 1756316854 603601 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Suscript 2.014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163942&oldid=119407 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1) 10Fix categories.
< 1756316888 647474 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, that's nice
< 1756316890 761410 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :UCOMISS a, b is very similar to CMP a, b except that it sets the parity flag if either a or b is a NaN
< 1756316899 729943 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and works on floats rather than ints
< 1756316910 171694 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's UCOMISD too, for doubles
> 1756316948 779477 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SusLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163943&oldid=117798 5* 03Corbin 5* (+8) 10Fix categories.
> 1756317010 623874 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07This esoteric programming language has one of the longest titles, and yet it only has one command, which is such a shame, but there is no way to undo it so we may as well stick with it14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163944&oldid=149502 5* 03Corbin 5* (-36) 10Fix categories and formatting.
> 1756317047 758812 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07When the Imposter is Sus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163945&oldid=124399 5* 03Corbin 5* (-16) 10Fix categories.
> 1756317114 414853 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163946&oldid=120451 5* 03Corbin 5* (-17) 10Fix categories.
> 1756317189 894921 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07lang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163947&oldid=158968 5* 03Corbin 5* (-17) 10Fix categories.
> 1756317213 214997 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07lang without Quine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163948&oldid=132865 5* 03Corbin 5* (-17) 10Fix categories.
< 1756317263 703259 :Everything!~Everythin@31.144.53.103 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1756317513 793116 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, so there's still one extra instruction to load a constant 0.5 into a register before you mulsd for decreasing the reference count, but you only need one instruction to tell whether the last reference is gone and put the result into eflags on which you can do a conditional jump
< 1756317573 126684 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or perhaps it's better to say that there's an extra instruction to store the reference count after
< 1756317821 579833 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a good property of the adc/sbb implementation is that you can do it directly on memory with a RMW instruction and have the flags set already
< 1756317949 419270 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :looks like LLVM doesn't produce an implementation anything like that one, from naive code: https://rust.godbolt.org/z/PPf9ErjTr
< 1756317985 117155 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :using u32 rather than i32 doesn't help either
< 1756318054 425907 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I hadn't realized the float comparison would be so simple, I thought you needed a longer sequence of instructions
< 1756318076 819857 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :…and now I'm wondering whether it's faster to read the same memory address twice in a row with the second being an RMW, or to load the value into a register, read and RMW the register, and store the register again
< 1756318130 96551 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, you want sbb to avoid the conditional jump
< 1756318149 981339 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and floats because inf/2 = inf
< 1756318152 671548 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I think it can go either way depending on what else you do around that. 
< 1756318162 131955 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: right
< 1756318164 305703 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION is piecing together the context, slowly

< 1756318209 8181 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, the optimisation is probably actually invalid in Rust, I forgot that Rust's current semantics ban speculative writes to &mut data
< 1756318231 643838 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I don't specifically want to avoid the conditional jump, it's just that this is fewer instructions either way... although to be fair the cpu can often merge a cmp followed by a conditional jump to a microinstruction so it might be almost as good 
< 1756318238 516451 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i.e. the compiler is not allowed to generate a write to a memory address unless it is written in the naive program execution, even if mutably borrowed (what if you had an &mut to a read-only page and used its value to determine whether it was read-only or not?)
< 1756318261 325319 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but adding a *refcount += 0 at the start doesn't change things
< 1756318275 788514 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I don't claim that the sbc solution that I said is optimal either, I only said that it's simpler than I can imagine any solution with floats will be
< 1756318292 444223 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is simpler than I was expecting for an integer-register solution
< 1756318397 458128 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: https://rust.godbolt.org/z/17ezf3Pbj  produces a cmov
< 1756318456 177233 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but you could say that it's also very much on the nose about what kind of code I want)
< 1756318499 213140 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: you changed the sense of the return value there
< 1756318509 100476 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's supposed to return true if the refcount fell to 0
< 1756318516 615737 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh
< 1756318535 670528 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it won't matter, it's just setne vs. sete
< 1756318537 788005 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my best so far is https://rust.godbolt.org/z/x49dKMov7
< 1756318546 96951 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: no, you are returning the result of the comparison to INT_MAX
< 1756318556 306178 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not whether the decrement made the value 
< 1756318556 676251 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh!
< 1756318559 12754 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* made the value 0
< 1756318588 58249 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, I'd have to use rc == 1... and that does produce worse code
< 1756318599 378194 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(instead of true)
< 1756318607 357133 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :okay, I retract my "huh"
< 1756318643 411198 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my version which unreachable_unchecked the subtraction to not negative-overflow does seem to be able to reuse the carry bit from the subtraction
< 1756318657 266764 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it isn't using it as an input to sbb
< 1756318897 774457 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I tried writing b_jonas's assembly as a direct translation to Rust, using «let (new_refcount, _) = refcount.borrowing_sub(0, *refcount <= u32::MAX - 1);», but it still didn't generate an sbb instruction (which is a bit of a shame because borrowing_sub exists more or less directly as an interface to the sbb instruction)
< 1756318906 290181 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or, I should say will exist, it's still unstable
< 1756318931 962250 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: what type is refcount?
< 1756318935 58173 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :u32
< 1756318937 505963 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, *mut u32
< 1756318941 87279 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* &mut u32
< 1756318954 240605 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, I saw an i32 in int-e's code and that's what got me scared here
< 1756318966 158505 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I started with i32 then changed to u32 because this doesn't need to go negative
< 1756318987 278368 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: and the problem isn't that rust is doing some overflow checking here? 
< 1756319009 589790 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have an unreachable_unchecked to tell the compiler to optimise as though there can't be a negative overflow
< 1756319031 676397 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and it does indeed do that, by using the carry flag after the subtraction as the return from the function)
< 1756319126 782849 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: *refcount -= (*refcount != u32::MAX) as u32;  behaves decently too
< 1756319130 375778 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION shrugs

< 1756319133 416187 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but no sbb)
< 1756319150 565344 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I did that earlier, same decent but sbbless code
< 1756319188 265660 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are all these processor instructions like sbb and rcr that compilers will hardly ever generate (I do see sbb in code that operates on 128-bit integers but it may be a special case in the compiler)
< 1756319217 406222 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :related: https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/issues/43016
< 1756319219 101929 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :rcr has horrible performance if the shift argument isn't a hardcoded 1, but that's usually the argument you actually want in practice
< 1756319290 458482 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I agree it's related, although it looks like a different optimisation
< 1756319318 805721 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah the pattern is a bit different, more about producing an intermediate 0 or -1
> 1756319319 886816 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Constant language14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163949 5* 03Corbin 5* (+2746) 10Stub a concept.
< 1756319340 237583 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in particular it's generating specifically code that sbbs a register from itself
< 1756319355 834067 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and points out that the performance of that depends on the processor (some processors have a false dependency on that, others don't)
< 1756319455 397458 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :does LLMV have sbb "natively" or only in a late peephole phase, I wonder.
< 1756319499 779672 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523, int-e: ^^ This is the page that I'll use as a bluelink when tearing down [[category:nope. derivatives]]. I'm also willing to tear down [[category:User Edited]], which wasn't discussed. In general, it seems PaxtonPenguin isn't really fond of following rules about creating pages; they also have a sandbox.
< 1756319506 646198 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in BASICs, what's the semantics of NEXT when GOTOs into or out of the loop can be involved? does NEXT effectively scan backwards in the code in line number order to find the matching FOR skipping balanced FOR-NEXT pairs, ignoring actual GOTO control flow? or, in older BASICs, scan backwards in line number order to find the FOR with the same variable name, ignoring actual control flow? or does it work 
< 1756319512 654819 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :differently and you have to execute the FOR to remember at runtime where NEXT will jump to?
< 1756319522 660388 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and similar question for WEND in later BASICs
< 1756319546 885962 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think I ever actually tried it, even though I used to write quite a lot of BASIC when I was young
< 1756319554 210490 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Nighty-Night! cu!  *wave*
< 1756319557 778199 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :night APic
< 1756319587 78420 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I generally thought of goto-based and structured-programming-based programming styles as separate and didn't try to mix them
< 1756319639 207618 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I don't think I thought of the possibility even of jumping out of a loop until I started writing in extremely-old-fashioned C++ instead
> 1756319652 404259 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Computable14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163950&oldid=163708 5* 03Corbin 5* (-10) 10/* History */ Bluelink.
< 1756319663 29814 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm asking because the new video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Jtv8hvau4 shows a BASIC code that has jumps out then back into the FOR-NEXT loop, because this is the dialect of BASIC where the IF statement can only GOTO, and the bodies of the IF conditionals are written outside of the loop rather than written inline and skipped over
< 1756319693 482698 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it only jumps into a FOR loop when it recently jumped out of it
< 1756319712 130015 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not asking about the semantics of that code in particular, but in general for more tricky programs
< 1756319762 781811 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's a perfectly reasonable question, I just don't know the answer because I never tried it
< 1756319774 286046 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my guess would be the "scan backwards" approach but it's just a guess
< 1756319803 794807 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(although I kind-of expect most BASICs with FOR…NEXT to cache which FORs match which NEXTs, so that no actual scan is needed)
< 1756319950 959496 :visilii!~visilii@213.24.125.93 JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1756320082 825729 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe 
> 1756320138 926709 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Constant language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163951&oldid=163949 5* 03Corbin 5* (+222) 10Technically recognizing a quine-avoiding constant language is at most L, not NONE; some effort is required. But I bet it's more like AC.
< 1756320143 582172 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, I don't have a use for this now, I am not writing BASIC programs to old systems with limited memory where I'd want tricks like that for optimization, and I don't want to write a basic interpreter
> 1756320249 962412 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Constant language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163952&oldid=163951 5* 03Corbin 5* (+101) 10/* Quine avoidance */ More words. Trying to keep a reasonable amount of humor.
> 1756320770 730938 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GRAND LEMURE!!114]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163953 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+145) 10Created page with "This is a weird esolang in which I JUST WANNA EXIST ==Hello World:==  so grand man  oui oui  Andes le krouche  "Worlde' Hllo"  Crunde le vange."
> 1756320852 267832 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GRAND LEMURE!!114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163954&oldid=163953 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+84) 10/* Hello World: */
< 1756320858 309341 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
> 1756320934 642530 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03V tgbjmehny 5*  10New user account
> 1756320981 712179 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ewankalite14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163955 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+348) 10Created page with "[[ewankalite]] is an esolang made by [[WarzokERNST135]] in which valid programs are ''''- wait... lemme focus <br>[[GRAND LEMURE!!1]] <br>and it's even weirder than grand lemure <br>Look:  oot$hift  454t68  'gheloaWreLed'  ===\=++    e bottles of beer on the wa
> 1756321042 129064 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:WarzokERNST13514]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163956&oldid=163863 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+49) 10
> 1756321487 666906 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163957&oldid=163894 5* 03V tgbjmehny 5* (+160) 10/* Introductions */
> 1756321512 85881 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07lang without Quine with Quine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163958 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+3391) 10Created page with "lang without Quine with Quine is an esolang made by WE135. As in lang without Quine, if you put <code></code>, then it outputs: <pre>   1956  -..."
> 1756321570 360819 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07lang without Quine with Quine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163959&oldid=163958 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+0) 10
< 1756322184 21087 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1756322274 736584 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1756322279 371057 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MODULARBALL14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163960 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+2896) 10not sure if it would be possible to implement anything using this but I'll throw it out here anyways
> 1756322407 580740 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Constant language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163961&oldid=163952 5* 03Corbin 5* (+300) 10Hack out a denotative abstraction.
> 1756322450 719437 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:V tgbjmehny14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163962 5* 03V tgbjmehny 5* (+996) 10Created page with "== mfsbpltthann == My name is V tgbjmehny, which as you can see is just random letters my esolang: === Name: === my  first  stack  based  programming  language  that  totally  has  a  normal  name === How it works: === new [name of varable] push [name of var
> 1756322482 771627 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163963&oldid=163359 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+84) 10/* my own esolangs */ add [[MODULARBALL]]
> 1756322490 450663 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:V tgbjmehny14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163964&oldid=163962 5* 03V tgbjmehny 5* (+3) 10/* Truth-machine */
> 1756322559 629748 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163965&oldid=163924 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+18) 10/* M */ add [[MODULARBALL]]
> 1756322573 748391 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:V tgbjmehny14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163966&oldid=163964 5* 03V tgbjmehny 5* (+1) 10/* Hello, World! */
> 1756322599 554538 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:V tgbjmehny14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163967&oldid=163966 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+14) 10/* How it works: */ code structuring
> 1756322697 152968 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07lang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163968&oldid=163947 5* 03Corbin 5* (+4) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756322733 770798 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:V tgbjmehny14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163969&oldid=163967 5* 03V tgbjmehny 5* (+11) 10/* Hello, World! */
> 1756322746 18177 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:V tgbjmehny14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163970&oldid=163969 5* 03V tgbjmehny 5* (-11) 10/* Hello, World! */
> 1756322752 725965 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07lang without Quine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163971&oldid=163948 5* 03Corbin 5* (+28) 10Identify a QACL.
> 1756322876 380172 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nope.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163972&oldid=163096 5* 03Corbin 5* (-49) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756322905 104861 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Template:BG14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163973 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+144) 10Created page with "<includeonly> <p style="background-color: {{{1}}};">{{{2}}}</p> </includeonly> <noinclude> This is used to give a background color to your text."
> 1756322915 296981 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:V tgbjmehny14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163974&oldid=163970 5* 03V tgbjmehny 5* (+13) 10/* Hello, World! */
> 1756322954 606234 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07No.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163975&oldid=160719 5* 03Corbin 5* (-87) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756322961 999877 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:V tgbjmehny14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163976&oldid=163974 5* 03V tgbjmehny 5* (+13) 10/* Truth-machine */
> 1756323043 460285 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07No.pe.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163977&oldid=136251 5* 03Corbin 5* (+26) 10Identify a QACL.
> 1756323137 584195 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07No.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163978&oldid=163975 5* 03Corbin 5* (-24) 10/* Interpreters */ Bluelinks.
> 1756323212 234148 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163979&oldid=140987 5* 03Corbin 5* (+39) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756323258 903098 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:WarzokERNST135/SIGNATURE SANDBOX14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=163980 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+343) 10Created page with "{{SUBST:BG|blue|{{SUBST:Font color|yellow|}}}}{{SUBST:BG|green|{{SUBST:Font color|white|}}}}{{SUBST:BG|yellow|{{SUBST:Font color|red|}}}}Don't ask me. [[WarzokERNST135]]"
> 1756323346 318902 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07 without a Quine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163981&oldid=141390 5* 03Corbin 5* (+113) 10Identify a QACL.
> 1756323453 473050 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163982&oldid=163562 5* 03Corbin 5* (-31) 10Fix categories.
> 1756323637 265218 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Violation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163983&oldid=135687 5* 03Corbin 5* (+115) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756323751 833381 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:WarzokERNST135/SIGNATURE SANDBOX14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163984&oldid=163980 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (-46) 10
> 1756323918 572811 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:V tgbjmehny14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163985&oldid=163976 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (-2) 10/* bye! */
< 1756324254 27822 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :[[template:lang]] is curious. I wish that they *discussed* this sort of thing first.
> 1756324254 288061 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Game:Esochain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163986&oldid=163931 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+383) 10/* Server 4 */
> 1756324343 140036 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Game:Esochain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163987&oldid=163986 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+1) 10
> 1756324390 245594 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Unmatched (14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163988&oldid=151391 5* 03Corbin 5* (-43) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756324482 743395 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minim14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163989&oldid=123494 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* (+2) 10Fixed spelling, added formatting, and changed some wording.
> 1756324486 449231 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TW'sLE!!!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163990&oldid=145894 5* 03Corbin 5* (-22) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756324737 779462 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Permission denied14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163991&oldid=149943 5* 03Corbin 5* (-40) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756324833 404583 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07NOP (esolang)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163992&oldid=149109 5* 03Corbin 5* (-8) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756324900 651799 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nil14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163993&oldid=151386 5* 03Corbin 5* (+37) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756324952 765514 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MAIACORD14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163994&oldid=156711 5* 03Corbin 5* (-31) 10Fix categories.
< 1756325085 545839 :ursa-major!114efe6c39@2a03:6000:1812:100::11f3 QUIT :Server closed connection
< 1756325094 324148 :ursa-major!114efe6c39@2a03:6000:1812:100::11f3 JOIN #esolangs ursa-major :Bailey Bjornstad
> 1756325192 705970 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Machine-language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163995&oldid=162175 5* 03Corbin 5* (+143) 10Fix categories. This joke isn't actually a language and certainly isn't TC, although it is funny and good food for thought.
> 1756325298 387712 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Anti-Machine language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163996&oldid=162247 5* 03Corbin 5* (-82) 10Fix categories. This language cannot be implemented on a machine, so it hasn't actually been implemented.
> 1756325374 221567 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Kiwiscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163997&oldid=150461 5* 03Corbin 5* (-105) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756325495 684783 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello,world!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163998&oldid=160068 5* 03Corbin 5* (-108) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756325596 40753 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fizzbuzz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=163999&oldid=146667 5* 03Corbin 5* (-130) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756325634 188305 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Output (WarzokERNST135)14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164000 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+197) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} this is an esolang made by WE135 in which every thing inputted to it just makes it output "output". == Quine ==  output == Self interpreter == <pre></pre> Make your own interpreters!!"
> 1756325718 59201 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FH14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164001&oldid=163512 5* 03Corbin 5* (-52) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756325758 235565 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Durge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164002&oldid=156040 5* 03Corbin 5* (-31) 10Fix categories.
> 1756325818 417026 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Compute14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164003&oldid=126216 5* 03Corbin 5* (-11) 10Fix categories.
> 1756326128 492915 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/recursive14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164004 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+31) 10Created page with "{{User:Tommyaweosme/recursive}}"
> 1756326360 350419 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:Pages with template loops14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164005 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+58) 10Created page with "This category is about the pages that have template loops."
> 1756326476 573780 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164006&oldid=154681 5* 03Corbin 5* (+65) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756326522 187205 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello, golf!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164007&oldid=125959 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756326564 376179 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164008&oldid=160706 5* 03Corbin 5* (-22) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756326621 221893 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arch is the best!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164009&oldid=163049 5* 03Corbin 5* (+36) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756326662 422883 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07NoQuinebrainfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164010 5* 03HyperbolicireworksPen 5* (+64) 10Created page with "same as brainfuck  but using H returns a error"
> 1756326682 507217 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category talk:Pages with template loops14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164011 5* 03Corbin 5* (+151) 10Discuss first, please.
> 1756326724 20343 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Segmentation fault14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164012&oldid=139788 5* 03Corbin 5* (-55) 10Fix categories.
> 1756326778 341640 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164013&oldid=163486 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+468) 10
> 1756326833 726152 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nope. without a quine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164014&oldid=137699 5* 03Corbin 5* (+62) 10Identify a QACL.
> 1756326894 797406 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07'Python' is not recognized14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164015&oldid=163807 5* 03HyperbolicireworksPen 5* (+1) 10
> 1756326896 452203 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07APLWSI14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164016&oldid=133490 5* 03Corbin 5* (-12) 10Identify a CL.
> 1756326916 50442 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nope. without a quine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164017&oldid=164014 5* 03Corbin 5* (-31) 10Fix categories.
> 1756327023 137978 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arch is the best!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164018&oldid=164009 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+54) 10/* See also */
> 1756327189 949954 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rickroll14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164019&oldid=119667 5* 03Corbin 5* (-36) 10Identify a CL. Note that [[Never Gonna Give You Up]] doesn't actually require the entire lyrics to be emitted, so the quine's only correct if this is in fact a CL.
< 1756327212 225640 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: [[category:nope. derivatives]] has been emptied out.
> 1756327229 904218 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Topple/Source Code14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164020&oldid=163901 5* 03H33T33 5* (+9) 10
> 1756327356 923431 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Unmatched (14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164021&oldid=163988 5* 03Corbin 5* (-41) 10
> 1756327378 619669 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language of Laughing14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164022&oldid=119819 5* 03Corbin 5* (-27) 10Fix categories.
> 1756327400 960701 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stupidc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164023&oldid=86386 5* 03Corbin 5* (-27) 10Fix categories.
> 1756327415 525708 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07StupidBASIC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164024&oldid=81532 5* 03Corbin 5* (-27) 10Fix categories.
< 1756327430 40163 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :[[category:stupid family]] has been emptied out too.
> 1756327509 930743 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Output (WarzokERNST135)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164025&oldid=164000 5* 03Corbin 5* (+114) 10Identify a CL. Add some categories.
> 1756327511 690772 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:TheSquare14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164026&oldid=8546 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+43) 10
> 1756327574 646877 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arch is the best! without a quine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164027&oldid=163458 5* 03Corbin 5* (+13) 10Identify a QACL.
> 1756327995 661828 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ConstantLanguage()14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164028 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+662) 10Created page with "[[ConstantLanguage()]] is an esolang made by [[WarzokERNST135]] in which its only functionality is to make a constant language. <br>Here is an example of the constant language "Hello, world!":  ConstantLanguage("Hello, world!") It works like this: :When
> 1756328012 703730 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:WarzokERNST13514]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164029&oldid=163956 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+27) 10
> 1756328743 104195 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164030&oldid=164013 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+386) 10/* Category: Templates with page loops */
> 1756328813 381832 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Psychopaths14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164031 5* 03Corbin 5* (+424) 10Unusable for programming? Maybe.
> 1756328943 268560 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164032&oldid=164030 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+362) 10/* Category: Templates with page loops */
> 1756329008 546461 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:/w/api.php/hidebots=1/urlversion=1/days=30/limit=50/action=feedrecentchanges/feedformat=atom14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164033 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+65) 10Created page with "THIS IS A FREE LANGUAGE FOR EVERYONE!!!! [[Category:User Edited]]"
> 1756329238 343420 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Unicornloverinf 5*  10New user account
> 1756329306 161952 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:/w/api.php/hidebots=1/urlversion=1/days=30/limit=50/action=feedrecentchanges/feedformat=atom14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164034&oldid=164033 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+194) 10
> 1756329315 607776 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:/w/api.php/hidebots=1/urlversion=1/days=30/limit=50/action=feedrecentchanges/feedformat=atom14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164035&oldid=164034 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (-1) 10keyboard fumble
> 1756329356 463457 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164036&oldid=164032 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+0) 10/* Category: Templates with page loops */ bamboozled!
> 1756329490 343918 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164037&oldid=163957 5* 03Unicornloverinf 5* (+245) 10/* Introductions */
< 1756329663 29525 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e4be:35da:9f42:3b49 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1756330195 29562 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07P2WFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164038&oldid=163893 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+70) 10
> 1756331224 264870 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164039&oldid=163979 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+22) 10/* Interpreter */
> 1756331598 864165 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ewankalite14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164040&oldid=163955 5* 03WarzokERNST135 5* (+23) 10
> 1756331828 771309 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Tpcs print.png10]]"
> 1756331907 625912 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Tpcs set variable pretzel.png10]]"
> 1756332250 632608 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Tpcs repeat until.png10]]"
> 1756332259 883535 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Tpcs hello world.png10]]"
> 1756332299 468705 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Tpcs truth machine.png10]]"
> 1756332333 939783 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Twisted Python Chat Server14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164046&oldid=25232 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+240) 10
< 1756333890 746830 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Server closed connection
< 1756333912 885763 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1756335491 543593 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
> 1756337852 385343 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:YOUR TAKING TOO LONG14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164047&oldid=161022 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+233) 10
> 1756338162 596811 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Cinnamony14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164048&oldid=154214 5* 03Cinnamony 5* (+202) 10this is actually tommyaweosme, cinnamony is my former account