This includes the contro
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< 1756566502 657773 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
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< 1756578099 206953 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: if you like probabilistic BF Joust, https://zem.fi/bfjoust/breakdown/#ais523.medium is a pretty visualisation of what consequences my decoy count estimation has: depending on the number of decoys the opposing program sets, it has an advantage on some ranges of tape lengths and a disadvantage on others, but the ranges are arranged to try to give a positive record no matter the opponent's decoy count
< 1756578130 636121 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the only decoy count that beats medium is to set exactly 4 decoys, in which case it loses on just over half the tape lengths
< 1756578157 814790 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :any other value, you have to outrace it, which is very hard when it's skipping most of your decoys (but two_thirds manages it somehow anyway)
< 1756578295 106496 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was a tough program to write, losing on almost half the tape lengths when your opponent sets few decoys meant that I had to really work hard on the clear loops in order to avoid random losses on tape lengths it should be winning (this is especially tough against defence programs because you have to avoid being locked and have to avoid being outraced, even with a low probability on specific tape lengths, as you are likely losing most of the short tapes 
< 1756578296 678523 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and thus have to win almost 100% of the long ones)
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> 1756581156 13752 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Phidas 5*  10New user account
> 1756581336 287559 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164203&oldid=164155 5* 03Phidas 5* (+141) 10Introducing myself
> 1756581932 9955 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Not-Quite-Laconic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164204&oldid=134932 5* 03Corbin 5* (+3242) 10Somewhat unstub. NQL is more capable than this, but this will suffice to explain what is historically important.
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< 1756582651 287526 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :based299792458: Welcome back! Are you still curious about sea of nodes?
< 1756582662 865225 :based299792458!~based2997@user/based299792458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i am!
< 1756582692 494827 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Wow, that's really quite the demonstration of amplifying probabilities with multiple trials. Thanks for documenting it.
< 1756582698 691438 :based299792458!~based2997@user/based299792458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i just finished a simple compiler front end and im getting ready to experiment with it
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< 1756583010 212138 :Guest93!~Guest93@2600:100a:b1e5:3b66:b14f:a555:c625:c4e3 PRIVMSG #esolangs :o:
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< 1756583033 134191 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Fun times. What kind of language does your frontend recognize?
< 1756583141 122489 :based299792458!~based2997@user/based299792458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it generates a lr1 parser from a cfg
< 1756583397 163162 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, it's a generator! Exciting. Are you also thinking about generating a sea-of-nodes type, rather than having a fixed backend?
< 1756583452 826643 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, that statement makes me realise that "context-free grammar" and "control-flow graph" have the same initialism, which is annoying for two terms which are widely used in the same field (compiler development)
> 1756583576 655786 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Laconic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164205&oldid=134931 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1632) 10Capture the essentials of the history. Shamelessly using the same template as [[NQL]] in order to get into a Perlis-rut.
> 1756583587 206554 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Drw14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164206 5* 03Phidas 5* (+1337) 10making drw page
< 1756583587 330381 :based299792458!~based2997@user/based299792458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i dont have any plans for that yet no. im feeling SON will be enough of a learning curve for now.
< 1756583625 163608 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Okay, I think I got it. I *really* don't like reading Friedman. Somebody once describe him as setting up "a candy shop" where we can look through the window at all of the pretty statements, but we're not allowed to actually touch them for ourselves.
< 1756583647 158384 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :based299792458: Sure. It might be simpler than you think. Do you already know other styles of backend? Particularly SSA?
< 1756583669 940993 :based299792458!~based2997@user/based299792458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, this will be my first backendd that isnt very naive.
< 1756583707 331177 :based299792458!~based2997@user/based299792458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my strategy is  to enforce what i need to in syntax like SSA.
> 1756583719 928127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164207&oldid=164158 5* 03Phidas 5* (+10) 10adding drw
< 1756583739 402683 :based299792458!~based2997@user/based299792458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so i dont  have to worry about learning too many types of analysis, if that makes sense.
< 1756583755 549631 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :No worries. The main idea of SoN is that if a node X depends on a computation from node Y to happen first, then there should be a path from X to Y. That might seem like a very simple way of putting it, but it gets complex as soon as we have stores and loads.
< 1756583769 824662 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, that makes sense. SSA in the syntax will help a lot.
< 1756583936 607162 :based299792458!~based2997@user/based299792458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ive been reading click's paper, the "simple graph based IR", is there any other resource u guys would recommend?
< 1756584114 742350 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :If you're okay with videos, look at some of Cliff's recorded talks; he's a great speaker. Also, learning more about SSA will help. It's important to emphasize that SSA is a family of approaches and each different approach is slightly different.
< 1756584143 125139 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Most SSA graphs have extra kinds of edges that represent various kinds of dependencies. Cliff's insight was that we can simplify all of that down to one kind of edge.
< 1756584145 463573 :based299792458!~based2997@user/based299792458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thanks i appreciate the help
< 1756584170 553531 :based299792458!~based2997@user/based299792458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ive got to go 0/
< 1756584197 808831 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :No problem. BTW, the wiki's recently gotten pages like [[metacompiler]] and there is room for documenting parser generators; when you've got more of your system figured out, you're welcome to share and document it.
< 1756584200 621868 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Peace.
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< 1756585251 771817 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lenses are so good. I wish Boomerang was real.
< 1756585265 169220 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Reading https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~harmony/manual.pdf to try and find more ideas for Zaddy syntax.
< 1756585581 15967 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that the most frustrating part is that compilation doesn't really need any bidirectional functionality. It's three transformations, each one directed, each one with three sources of flavor (input, output, implementation) that are each different. It's kind of a worst case for any sort of syntax reuse.
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< 1756590456 7408 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Good Night
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< 1756592694 755923 :MizMahem!sid296354@user/mizmahem JOIN #esolangs MizMahem :🐍🐔
< 1756593278 991958 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : I think that the most frustrating part is that compilation doesn't really need any bidirectional functionality. ← I think my opinion here is that lexing and parsing are inherently bidirectional but the other stages of compilation aren't
< 1756593345 875440 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :asm-to-IR and IR-to-source are both potentially useful directions to compile in, but not as useful as the usual directions and very hard to implement reasonably
< 1756593374 42607 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :…although asm-to-machine-code is very reversible
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