00:00:48 <int-e> fizzie: So that looks like the math plugin uses a wikipedia API endpoint internally. Is that just how it works or a configuration error?
00:15:54 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164964&oldid=164963 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+222) /* Other */
00:17:48 <fizzie> AIUI, that's the easiest way to set it up, and seemed to be at least tacitly allowed. Properly self-hosting it seemed to be just a big hassle. But it was all rather opaque.
00:18:50 <int-e> Okay that makes sense.
00:20:35 <fizzie> Although reading https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Math/en#Mathoid_as_a_service "Wikimedia plans to discontinue RESTBase services including the Mathoid endpoint used by Math extension by default, though there is no specific EOL date yet. For sites using newer MediaWiki versions, Native MathML mode is recommended instead."
00:21:25 <fizzie> So apparently Extension:Math now knows how to do MathML (just without the image fallback) without the server-side support.
00:22:27 <fizzie> And there's apparently also a MathJax mode now (MediaWiki ≥ 1.42).
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00:57:31 <esolangs> [[Everyday]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164965 * Tommyaweosme * (+1646) Created page with "Everyday is a program created by [[User:Tommyaweosme]], following in the trend of making new esolangs after an Esolang page of the same name gets deleted. == Control flow == Programs are run every day. A maximum of one command can be placed each day. It will alway
00:59:21 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Tommyaweosme * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Tpcs hello world.png]]": real interpretation of it
01:00:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Tommyaweosme * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Tpcs truth machine.png]]": real interpretation of it
01:03:23 <esolangs> [[User talk:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164968 * Tommyaweosmalt * (+303) Created page with "once you do come up with a name, you'll have to make a new account. [[user:tommyaweosme|<span style="color:green;">tommyaweosme(alt so can edit talk page)</span>]] :thats preposterous!!! just ask an admin [[user:tommyaweosmalt|<span st
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03:09:07 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164969&oldid=164936 * Davidwg * (+27) Minor table cleanup
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05:51:25 <esolangs> [[Switchboard]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164970&oldid=164852 * CreeperBomb * (-1) Wrong number
05:51:46 <esolangs> [[Switchboard]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164971&oldid=164970 * CreeperBomb * (+0)
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09:04:46 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164972&oldid=164964 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+39) /* My dreams and goals in esolangs.org */
09:07:37 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164973&oldid=164972 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+91) /* My favourite things */
09:28:55 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164974&oldid=164944 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+191)
09:31:17 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164975&oldid=164973 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+87)
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09:54:07 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164976&oldid=164949 * MiloIzVannoy * (+36)
10:19:47 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164977&oldid=164976 * MiloIzVannoy * (+87) /* Loop Break: */
10:28:57 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164978&oldid=164977 * MiloIzVannoy * (+45)
10:31:47 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164979&oldid=164978 * MiloIzVannoy * (-29) /* Bitwise Operations */
10:55:31 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164980&oldid=164979 * MiloIzVannoy * (+53) /* Instruction Repetition: (code)*hex */
11:03:58 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164981&oldid=164980 * MiloIzVannoy * (+234)
11:15:15 <esolangs> [[SletScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164982&oldid=161994 * I am islptng * (+99)
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12:09:11 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164983&oldid=164975 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+14)
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12:45:49 <esolangs> [[CLC-INTERCAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164984&oldid=122827 * Tpaefawzen * (+74) /* External resources */
13:30:24 <esolangs> [[Hate]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164985&oldid=164723 * None1 * (+0)
13:31:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Hate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164986&oldid=164930 * None1 * (+350)
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14:32:16 <esolangs> [[Esimpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164987&oldid=164880 * Ais523 * (+9) /* Computational class */ I think I'm confused about what "linear slowdown" means, so write what I think I meant in a more unambiguous way
14:33:25 <esolangs> [[Esimpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164988&oldid=164987 * Ais523 * (+9) /* Computational class */ replace a second instance of "linear slowdown"
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15:32:31 <ais523> OK, these are probably contiguous
15:32:44 <HackEso> [U+2074 SUPERSCRIPT FOUR]
15:32:54 <ais523> the superscripts aren't, so I was a bit worried
15:40:14 <esolangs> [[Cammy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164989&oldid=161216 * Corbin * (+169) Add cite where I said that Unison and Dark were inspirations.
15:41:24 <korvo> BTW a linear slowdown, for an input program of length n, means that the output program needs n times more effort to emulate each action of the input. By contrast, a constant-factor slowdown means that there's some fixed k for which only k times more effort is required.
15:41:37 <korvo> I agree that they probably didn't mean "linear" here.
15:43:13 <korvo> I can't think of a good example offhand. Defunctionalization incurs a log n slowdown; a program of length n can have O(n) different functions, and encoding a call for one of them takes O(log n) space, so a program which is primarily composed of functions and function calls will need O(log n) space just for representations.
15:44:31 <korvo> ...but then we're at another issue: we've conflated slow execution with big encoding. Big encodings have to be slow to decode, but maybe not slow to execute? So it's very dependent on the cost model we've chosen.
16:02:02 <ais523> I don't normally care much about esolang speed, but recently have realised that caring about it can be an interesting field to study
16:03:25 <ais523> it would be fun to write an O(n log n)-slowdown BF interpreter in a tag system
16:03:47 <ais523> (on a scale where O(1) means a constant-factor slowdown)
16:25:58 <b_jonas> I actually have an esolang complexity question. If I want to do computations with pen and paper, which we model as a RAM machine with a constant number of writable registers but all the RAM cells are restricted to starting from zero and writable only once, you can simulate an ordinary RAM machine program that runs for t time in O(t↑(1+ε)) time, right? how about a more restricted version, where each
16:26:04 <b_jonas> cell of the RAM is writable once and it's undefined behavior to read a cell that hasn't been written yet?
16:26:46 <b_jonas> I think the latter might be too restricted to do useful computation
16:27:32 <b_jonas> at least in a RAM way, but you can still write it in order and read it back for like polynomial slowdown, so who knows, maybe you can do something even better
16:29:41 <b_jonas> yes, that latter model is not for pen and paper anymore, and probably doesn't even have a good motivation
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16:39:50 <esolangs> [[Globe]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164990 * Ais523 * (+9011) new language I'm not sure this is finished but thought I'd post this so that people see where my thoughts are so far
16:40:27 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164991&oldid=164956 * Ais523 * (+12) /* G */ +[[Globe]]
16:40:51 <esolangs> [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164992&oldid=162372 * Ais523 * (+11) +[[Globe]]
16:42:11 <ais523> b_jonas: in your "RAM that's writable once and UB to read if uninitialised" model, how does arithmetic work? it feels vaguely like that might be important
16:42:23 <ais523> in particular I think we need writable temporaries (like an accumulator) to do arithmetic on
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16:45:58 <ais523> hmm, I'm trying to apply that model to a Turing machine (i.e. "you can only write on blank tape, and must not visit blank tape except in states where all the trasitions are the same) and suspect it might be sub-TC, at least I can't immediately figure out how to program in it
16:46:29 <ais523> s/trasitions/transitions/
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17:15:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zinnia Glean * New user account
17:17:27 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164993&oldid=164925 * Zinnia Glean * (+185)
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17:20:38 <esolangs> [[Globe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164994&oldid=164990 * Ais523 * (+4587) thoughts on efficiently compiling to and from Globe
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17:24:09 <esolangs> [[Linefeed]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164995 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+314) Created page with "''''Linefeed''' is [[esoteric programming language]] to output linefeed and some other non-printable and non-visible characters ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !Command!!Description |- |lf||output linefeed |- |tab||output tab |- |bs||output backsp
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17:24:37 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164996&oldid=164983 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+14) /* esolangs list */
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18:00:35 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, we have a bunch of general purpose registers that can store numbers, also used as addresses, the program decides how many registers there are but a constant number for any one program, and those registers can be written as many times as you want as normla
18:00:59 <ais523> b_jonas: what's to stop you just using the registers as a counter machine and ignoring the memory?
18:03:23 <b_jonas> yes, that's also a problem with a normal RAM machine. I don't know a good way to solve it. maybe the registers start as 32 bit wide, then after 2↑16 time steps they and the memory cells suddenly grow to 64 bit wide, then after 2↑32 time steps the registers and memory cells grow to 128 bit wide, then after 2↑64 time steps they grow to 256 bits wide etc. that leaves the program enough time to
18:03:29 <b_jonas> transition from a 32-bit address space to a 64-bit one, even if it has to copy all its data and reformat it.
18:04:17 <b_jonas> (unlike in reality, when people still used 16-bit wide addresses when they had more than 64 kilobytes of RAM+ROM, then similarly for 24-bit and 32-bit addresses, and similar issues for on-disk formats with large disks)
18:04:51 <ais523> in bank-switching systems the notion of an address becomes a bit fuzzy
18:06:05 <ais523> hmm, what about making it so that you couldn't decrement the counters? only increment?
18:06:23 <esolangs> [[Scratch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164997&oldid=154904 * Arctenik * (+194) Add implementations to infobox to remove default "unimplemented" value
18:06:51 <ais523> actually no, that's still uninteresting, you just store n-1 at address n and use a RAM read as your decrement
18:07:07 <ais523> it does force you to use the RAM but not in an interesting way
18:09:03 <b_jonas> the better solution would probably be to throw out the RAM part and use a pointer machine, one with finite control and finitely many registers storing an address, any address points to a structure with a constant number of fields, as many as the program wants. the program steps can cons a new structure whose fields are empty, car any field with a compile-time constant name from a cell pointed to by a
18:09:09 <b_jonas> register, compare a register to null and conditional jump, copy a register to another, or write the value of a register to any empty field in a structure pointed to by another register.
18:10:27 <b_jonas> but with the shenanigans that write-once memory requires, I'm not sure if RAM doesn't provide some additional power somehow. it probably doesn't. also I was originally thinking of pen and paper, which corresponds to RAM more easily than to a pointer machine.
18:12:58 <esolangs> [[Talk:Scratch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164998&oldid=151725 * Arctenik * (+304) /* Unimplemented??? */ Fixed infobox
18:24:14 <esolangs> [[Msimsismikiamoanwkwjwkaks k ks.akalekwkzjskskaklsjsa]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164999 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+2177) Created page with "'''Msimsismikiamoanwkwjwkaks k ks.akalekwkzjskskaklsjsa''' is the dumbest and the hardest [[esoteric programming language]]. '''Msimsismikiamoanwkwjwkaks k ks.akalekwkzjskskaklsjsa''' may seem complicated d
18:25:09 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165000&oldid=164996 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+58) /* esolangs list */
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18:48:30 <int-e> `learn Haywire was the duct tape of the early 20th century.
18:48:36 <HackEso> Learned 'haywire': Haywire was the duct tape of the early 20th century.
18:50:32 <HackEso> al gore//Al Gore invented the algorithm.
18:53:26 <HackEso> 1/1:840) <Phantom_Hoover> it's weird hanging around people for whom the northernmost point in the world is nottingham \ 1280) <ais523> hmm, I just remembered that I was formally trained to tune harps
18:56:56 <ais523> HackEso: thanks for the reminder, I guess – I had forgotten that
18:57:35 <esolangs> [[A=ab=bc=cd=d!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165001&oldid=164952 * Aadenboy * (-4) /* Truth Machine */ fix example
18:58:03 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165002&oldid=164954 * Aadenboy * (-4) /* ESOLANGS */ fix example
18:59:46 <esolangs> [[A=ab=bc=cd=d!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165003&oldid=165001 * Aadenboy * (+27)
19:01:11 <korvo> fungot: what's the syntax for searching the quote db?
19:01:11 <fungot> korvo: generally, fnord codes, but status codes. :( http://www.guardian.co.uk/ fnord/ spec.html
19:01:29 <korvo> fungot: speak of xanadu
19:01:29 <fungot> korvo: easier to write that way
19:03:29 <int-e> korvo: there's `grwp
19:04:12 <int-e> it seemed rather unlikely ;-)
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19:04:29 <esolangs> [[A=ab=bc=cd=d!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165004&oldid=165003 * Aadenboy * (+11) fix examqple again
19:04:51 <HackEso> aeaaap:AEaaAP stands for "arbitrary effect at an arbitrary point". It's one of the traditional requirements for Turing-completeness. \ bitcoin:bitcoins are coins that have been drilled through with a bit, and can be strung together in long chains. This practice dates to ancient China, and the Chinese remain experts in bitcoin manufacturing. A chain can support up to 21 million coins before breaking. \ bogosort:Bogosort is an efficient sorting algorithm for
19:05:23 <int-e> (I had to check which is the case-insensitive one)
19:05:51 <int-e> it's the wrong kind of esoterics :P
19:06:05 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165005&oldid=165002 * Aadenboy * (+11) /* my own esolangs */ again
19:06:30 <int-e> which... doesn't rule out having an entry speaking of it, but as I said, it seemed rather unlikely ;)
19:13:19 <korvo> Guess not. My microblog today is commentary on commentary on Xanadu, because that's all that ever got delivered. https://awful.systems/comment/8817726
19:44:38 <HackEso> Bogosort is an efficient sorting algorithm for nondeterministic Turing machines. Taneb may have invented it.
19:53:22 <ais523> huh, nondeterministic bogosort *is* fast if the nondeterminism doesn't cost any time
19:58:20 <int-e> `cwlprits bogosort
19:59:12 <int-e> 9 years ago. I have no memory of this :)
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20:10:40 <int-e> The context was... solving Rubik's cubes? tswett suggested to do it by making random moves until it's solved. b_jonas associated that with bogosort and found that there was no entry for it yet.
20:13:20 <int-e> https://logs.esolangs.org/freenode-esoteric/2016-03-20.html#lIh ff.
20:13:44 <korvo> Hm, that's a fun example, because I don't know whether it's in NL. It's certainly in NP, but the trick is that a solved Rubik's cube has no actions which leave it solved. So even though we know the length of the longest path under the worst assumptions, we also have to do a parity check first to know the parity of that path's length.
20:14:07 <korvo> Oh, wait, of course it's in NL if it's in NP. We can just add the identity action as a legal move.
20:55:59 <ais523> I guess it's more like bubblebogosort because you are doing one move at a time then checking, rather than scrambling the entire cube then checking
21:08:53 <esolangs> [[Globe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165006&oldid=164994 * Ais523 * (-409) /* Syntax */ remove wildcard sugar thinking about it I don't think it's useful, so there's no point in making implementations implement it
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21:30:14 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165007&oldid=165000 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (-102)
21:38:16 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165008&oldid=165007 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+22)
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