00:02:57 <avih> int-e: you're right. thanks. it's a bit harder for me to follow because the work it does is a function of both the original val and val==0 value. thanks.
00:03:12 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168198&oldid=168197 * NTMDev * (+777) /* Lists */
00:03:13 <avih> (i did get it)
00:09:31 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168199&oldid=168198 * NTMDev * (+37) /* Max and Min */
00:21:26 <int-e> ^bf -------[>+++++++<-]>.
00:21:36 <int-e> ^bf -------[>+++++++<+]>.
00:21:45 <int-e> ^bf >>+[[----------[+++++++++++[>>]>+<]+>>]<[-<-<<--<]>++[>++++++++[<<++>++++++>-]<-.+<[>---<-]<]++++++++++.[-]>>]
00:21:45 <fungot> 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10.11.12.13.14.15.16.17.18.19.20.21.22.23.24.25.26.27.28.29.30.31.32.33.34.35.36.37.38.39.40.41.42.43.44.45.46.47.48.49.50.51.52.53.54.55.56.57.58.59.60.61.62.63.64.65.66.67.68.69.70.71.72. ...
00:24:07 <int-e> (smaller, but still feels a bit clumsy)
00:27:27 <int-e> (I've spent hundreds of hours of my life optimizing brainfuck code. Probably not worth it :P)
00:37:36 <avih> ais523: so with the code >+<[->[-]>+<<] the overall "if (==0) BODY" is this, yes?
00:37:36 <avih> >+<[->[-]>+<<] >>[<<+>>-]<[-<
00:37:36 <avih> and a naive translation of this to "if (==N) BODY" would be
00:37:37 <avih> (MINUS N)>+<[->[-]>+<<] >>[<<+>>-]<[-<(PLUS N)
00:37:41 <avih> (MINUS N)>]<(PLUS N)
00:37:44 <avih> but in such case i presume it would be shorter with making a copy 1st, which i think ends up as my version, where N appears only once as (MINUS N).
00:38:10 <ais523> avih: that looks about right
00:39:16 <avih> k. but it's definitely nicer for the case of 0 :)
00:39:31 <avih> (i.e. than my version)
00:41:18 <avih> well.. "definitely" is 10 less bf commands, which is certainly not nothing.
00:42:28 <int-e> If you want a conditional, >+<[>->]>[>>]<< is still attractive... the two loops are already conditional branches. But you need to be extra careful with preserving the landing pads and the flag.
00:42:39 <avih> (i'm not evaluating execution speed because that depends too much on optimizations, but indeed many times less code also runs quicker)
00:43:20 <avih> int-e: indeed, your version is even shorter in a condition.
00:43:32 <avih> (another 10 bf commands)
00:44:03 <avih> like this if i got that right:
00:44:05 <avih> >+<[>->]>[>>]<<[-<
00:44:49 <avih> its advantage is that it doesn't touch the original cell at all, so no need to move it back to its original position before body
00:45:52 <avih> with the only "disadvantage" that it needs another free cell at 0.
00:46:11 <int-e> >+<[>-< non-zero stuff here >>]>[-< zero stuff here >>>]<<
00:47:32 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168200&oldid=167908 * PrySigneToFry * (+1092) Multilingual testing 2
00:48:48 <avih> the problem i would usually have with this kind of code, at least in other languages, is that i feel it's easier to get bugs in. it absolutely works, but the interaction between the vars feels like something someone could miss some time later when touching the code.
00:49:09 <int-e> avih: optimizing BF code with unbalanced loops like that is kind of toxic though: there's a lot of possible placements for landing pads (cells known to be 0) and I find it impossible to predict which is best... gotta try them all ;-)
00:49:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168201&oldid=168200 * PrySigneToFry * (-1092) It seems that Tianheng's font is really easy to use. The only thing missing is that it doesn't include Luxembourgish.
00:49:56 <avih> i do realize bf is not normal, and sometimes it can be valuable to write more sensitive code to achieve some goals though. don't know. i didn't form an opinion on this yet.
00:51:23 <avih> my gut feeling is to go for the simpler code even at the cost of few more commands, but it's also hard to ignore minus 10 commands :)
00:54:23 <avih> and for instance ais523's code is purely simpler than mine for the special case of 0, without sacrificing legibility IMO, so this is win-win. but your version is yet shorter, but also trickier, which is where i need to consider whether it's worth it (it's probably worth it for this tiny program of a counter, but in general, i'd hesitate with it)
00:54:50 <ais523> being trickier also makes it harder to optimise, so the performance will depend somewhat on how optimising your interpreter is
00:55:08 <int-e> oh I'm absolutely not going for performance :)
00:56:13 <avih> yeah, as i said, didn't try to evaluate execution speed, but it depends so much on the optimizer.
00:56:48 <int-e> though with this counter problem your number increment routine and printing routine will have to use an unbalanced loop somewhere :)
00:58:55 <avih> int-e: sure, it does have two unbalanced loops. one to reach the most significant digit after increasing [all 999...] the last non-9 digit, and then the printing itself is of course also unbalanced
01:00:16 <avih> as i said, my issue with your code is not unbalanced loop. these are fine. it's the fact that it depends on two vars for the kind of work it does before BODY, while the other versions only depend on one
01:01:23 <avih> i.e. the "maybe jump" parts are... sensitive.
01:02:27 <int-e> Sure. If I were writing a compiler into brainfuck I wouldn't use it :)
01:02:57 <avih> there are two "maybe jump" and each of them depend on a different var, and the overall correctness depends also on the erlation between the vars, to get the right "maybe jump".
01:04:09 <int-e> but for manually writing small pieces of brainfuck code it's not so bad
01:05:00 <avih> i tend to think so too. it's definitely interesting to exist. not the kind of code i would have thought of, which is always nice for me :)
01:10:44 <avih> (but it IS the first time i write bf code other than trivial variations of "cat", i spent about 80% in my generic "if (==N) BODY", another 10% on making it unbalanced "while (==N) BODY" (which scans through digits), and the rest for the actual code of increasing the number and printing it and tying it all together)
01:11:13 <int-e> it's not a natural way to program
01:11:34 <avih> yeah. fun challenge though.
01:15:49 <avih> i can see how it can lend itself very well to a macro language wrapper. i know such exist, but i don't have intentions to write meaningful bf code. i had to write at least something to get a feel of the challenges, but my main interest is interpreter/optimizer.
01:21:38 <b_jonas> int-e: will have to use an unbalanced loop => only if you want an unbounded number of digits.
01:23:16 <int-e> b_jonas: yes, and bounded cells
01:23:42 <ais523> ^bf ++++++++++>>+++++++[->++++++<]>[[>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<<[.<]<.>>]
01:24:17 <ais523> ^bf ++++++++++>>+++++++[->++++++<]>[[>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<<[.<]<.>>.]
01:24:21 <ais523> ^bf ++++++++++>>+++++++[->++++++<]>[[>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<<[.<]<.>.>]
01:24:50 <ais523> ^bf ++++++++++>>+++++++[->++++++<]>[[>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<.<[.<]<.>>]
01:25:23 <ais523> ^bf ++++++++++>>+++++++[->++++++<]>[[>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<.<[.<]>]
01:25:23 <fungot> *************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** ...
01:25:37 <ais523> ^bf ++++++++++>>+++++++[->++++++<]>[[>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<.<[.<]<>>]
01:25:37 <fungot> *************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** ...
01:25:40 <ais523> ^bf ++++++++++>>+++++++[->++++++<]>[[>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<.<[.<]<.>>]
01:26:45 <ais523> ^bf +++++++[->++++++<]>[-<+>>+<]<+++++>>[[>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<.<[.<]<>>]
01:26:45 <fungot> *************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** ...
01:26:51 <ais523> ^bf +++++++[->++++++<]>[-<+>>+<]<+++++>>[[>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<.<[.<]<.>>]
01:26:51 <fungot> **/***/****/*****/******/*******/********/*********/**********/***********/************/*************/**************/***************/****************/*****************/******************/*******************/ ...
01:26:59 <ais523> ^bf +++++++[->++++++<]>[-<+>>+<]<+++++>>[[>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<<[.<]<.>>]
01:26:59 <fungot> */**/***/****/*****/******/*******/********/*********/**********/***********/************/*************/**************/***************/****************/*****************/******************/****************** ...
01:27:11 <ais523> I wonder why fungot exits the program when outputting a newline
01:27:11 <fungot> ais523: i wish to begin by thanking mr hallam for his report.
01:27:53 <ais523> (most of those attempts were debugging to see why it wasn't working)
01:30:08 <ais523> ^bf +.+++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>-----.++.>.<++++++.++++++.-.>>>++++.<++++.<+++++++++++++++++.>-.+.-.[-]+.
01:31:19 <avih> b_jonas: i think an infinite counter has to be unbounded number of digits... (at least mine is, which needs 1+NUMDIGITS*3 memory)
01:31:58 <int-e> ^bf ++++++++++.[>+++++<-]>.
01:32:02 <avih> or *4 if i'd use int-e's version.
01:32:12 <int-e> ^bf +++++++++++++.[>++++<-]>.
01:32:16 <ais523> ^bf ++++++++++.+++[>++++++>++>++++++++>+++++++++<<<<-]>.-----.------.++++++++.>++++++.>--.++++++.>.-------.<-----.--.>+.+++++.
01:32:34 <int-e> ais523: I don't know what you mean by printing newlines... both \n and \r become `.` for me
01:33:00 <ais523> int-e: well my program earlier was just ending when it tried to print a newline
01:33:08 <ais523> and it's specifically the print statement that ended it
01:33:32 <int-e> ais523: it prints a 0 character
01:33:48 <ais523> ^bf ++++++++[->++++++++<]>.<++++++++++.>.
01:33:52 <fungot> <CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP>
01:34:09 <ais523> I tested CTCPs earlier
01:34:20 <int-e> ^bf ++++++++++....>.<....
01:34:24 <ais523> ^bf ++++++++[->++++++++<]>.<.>.
01:34:38 <avih> (it's probably possible to use 3+NUMDIGITS memory, if the digits are shifted around while going over them)
01:34:40 <ais523> I didn't think I was printing NUL, maybe I was off by one on the tape location
01:35:19 <int-e> I tried two of your attempts locally and they print ^@ (as less displays it)
01:35:43 <ais523> ^bf ++++++++++>+++++++[->++++++<]>[[>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<<[.<]<.>>]
01:35:43 <fungot> *.**.***.****.*****.******.*******.********.*********.**********.***********.************.*************.**************.***************.****************.*****************.******************.****************** ...
01:35:44 <int-e> it *is* interesting that that terminates the output :)
01:36:19 <ais523> the first multiplication loop moves to the right, and the previous constant is supposed to be two elements before it, but I had >> in between so it was actually three elements before
01:36:25 <avih> ais523: that's not in decimal though :)
01:36:38 <ais523> indeed, just wanted a simple infinite looping counter
01:36:59 <avih> i _think_ it should end up way shorter than that...
01:37:14 <ais523> most of the length is just creating the newline and asterisk
01:38:58 <int-e> ^bf >++++++++++>>+[+++++[<+++++++>-]<[.<]>[>]>+]
01:38:58 <fungot> *.**.***.****.*****.******.*******.********.*********.**********.***********.************.*************.**************.***************.****************.*****************.******************.****************** ...
01:39:25 <ais523> I thought that approach would probably be shorter
01:39:34 <ais523> (i.e. creating a new asterisk every time rather than copying the existing one
01:39:57 <int-e> oh yes, copying is expensive
01:40:13 <ais523> it's expensive in characters but not in mental bandwidth
01:41:16 <avih> in my version the digit value in memory is 1-10 for '0'..'9' respectively, and each printout adds 47 to get the ascii value, and then subtracts 47. this can probably also be shorter. either by making a copy which can be zeroed, or maybe keeping '0' near each cell which can be added during the print pass.
01:42:28 <int-e> avih: I've done the same in my version ( https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2025-11-15.html#li if you missed it)
01:42:38 <avih> the combination of messing about with optimization, and doing it in bf is really bad for one's health :)
01:43:33 <avih> int-e: i did miss it. thanks.
01:44:48 <avih> int-e: well, i did see it, just didn't realize what it is and didn't try it :)
01:45:27 <avih> looks nicely short though. will try to look at it carefully. cheers.
01:46:17 <avih> so the bot prints dot for newline?
01:47:14 <int-e> (I thought that it does that for all control characters... but evidently that's not the case.)
01:48:28 <avih> (never tried the bot)
01:56:02 <avih> int-e: i wonder whether a version which stores '0'..'9' as 10..1 respectively, and then subtracts the memory value from ':' would be shorter, as it counts down rather than up, which might simplify the condition to increase the digit value.
01:56:46 <avih> (':' is just after '9' in ascii)
01:57:31 <int-e> avih: if you want to go that route you should probably use -10..-1
01:58:10 <int-e> because then you can still add and subtract a constant in place
01:58:29 <avih> possibly more efficient, but i only just thought about it, and this has to be evaluated in more than hand waving :)
01:59:00 <int-e> I thought about it earlier but wasn't convinced in the end. But it's hard to tell!
01:59:26 <int-e> I'm trying hard not to try a dozen different versions for this :)
01:59:48 <avih> it's definitely more cute though :) but i had to start simple, just to see that i can it out of the door first :)
02:00:22 <int-e> avih: yeah as I said I have a lot of practice doing this
02:00:31 <int-e> you're not doing badly at all!
02:03:13 <avih> it's nice to see other people's solutions and approaches i didn't consider.
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02:31:22 <avih> int-e: are there interesting bf programs of yours out there? (links?)
02:34:01 <avih> also, when you say "spent time optimizing", was that for speed or size? and if speed, by what criteria?
02:34:58 <avih> (for size is absolute, but for speed not at all, except obvious algorithmic differences)
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02:41:51 <avih> i presume size, because you mentioned "not for performance".
02:49:11 <int-e> avih: Yeah I optimized for size. Hmm. I guess some stuff ended up in this collection: http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/
02:53:06 <avih> i'm guessing mostly here? https://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/bf-source/prog/ or also executioners in other languages?
03:04:33 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168202&oldid=168199 * NTMDev * (+169) /* Max and Min */
03:10:19 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168203&oldid=168202 * NTMDev * (+505) /* Any + AllCondition */
03:11:28 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168204&oldid=168203 * NTMDev * (+102) /* Scenario */
03:19:09 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168205&oldid=168204 * NTMDev * (+326) /* Scenario */
03:34:35 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168206&oldid=168205 * NTMDev * (+135) /* Scenario */
03:35:34 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168207&oldid=168206 * NTMDev * (-1) /* Variable Assignment */
03:43:08 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168208&oldid=168207 * NTMDev * (+1038) /* Simple statistics and Math Operations */
03:51:05 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168209&oldid=168208 * NTMDev * (+436) /* Edit a List */
03:51:29 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168210&oldid=168209 * NTMDev * (+1) /* Special List Functions */
03:52:29 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Sawyer.go0923 * New user account
03:54:57 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168211&oldid=168210 * NTMDev * (+237) /* Simple Math operations */
03:55:50 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168212&oldid=168211 * NTMDev * (+119) /* Length, Max, Min */
03:57:27 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168213&oldid=168212 * NTMDev * (+146)
04:02:29 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168214&oldid=168213 * NTMDev * (+328) /* Loops */
04:03:26 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168215&oldid=168180 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+256)
04:03:35 <esolangs> [[I RAGED ON CSHARP SO HARD I BROKE MY FUCKING PC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168216 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+4066) no.
04:08:14 <esolangs> [[!frjnrehrbwgyrigbyieurgbyfaerkhbvrwgtr.]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168217 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+1707) bhugbghjrtwh6yjt6jedeswwsuy5y76
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04:16:14 <esolangs> [[Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz.now.i.know.my.abcs.next.time.wont.you.sing.with.me]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168219 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+1922) htrrhzszhcshjyudytsrrtjkl;luyrtykl.,jgre
04:18:39 <esolangs> [[Minimialized Programming Language 2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168220 * PrySigneToFry * (+9755) Created page with "Minimialized Programming Language 2 is the Single Character version of [[Minimialized Programming Language]]. = Definition = == Commands == <pre> = let (assignment) ? print ?c print character $ read integer $c read character
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04:33:35 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168221 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+15822) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Nullifinitesimal |author=Sawyer |year=2025 |paradigms=Esoteric, 2D, Stack-based, Self-modifying, Joke |memsys=Stack + sparse Heap + 2D byte grid |class=Obnoxiously Annoying }} '''Nullifinitesimal''' is a deliberately hostile, de
04:36:27 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168222&oldid=168221 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+9443)
04:38:26 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168223&oldid=168222 * Aadenboy * (-172) /* Paste-ready operator table */ formatting
04:38:44 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168224&oldid=168223 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+12) /* Execution model */ assuming bolding, I changed the ** ** to ''' '''
04:39:38 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168225&oldid=168224 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1) /* Operators 193-255 */ added newline, so the whole line is visible
04:40:31 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168226&oldid=168225 * Aadenboy * (+16) wrap instead
04:40:48 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168227&oldid=168226 * Aadenboy * (+1) /* Operators 1-64 */ fix closing tag
04:41:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:Nullifinitesimal]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168228 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+217) Created page with "Hey, I stumbled across this, and I was wondering, what is the etymology the name Nullifinitesimal? --~~~~"
04:42:07 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168229&oldid=168227 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-10) /* Final notes */ It is not a stub. as such, I took of the stub thingy
04:42:26 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168230&oldid=168229 * Sawyer.go0923 * (-19149)
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05:21:48 <esolangs> [[Talk:Stroke]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168231&oldid=167981 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1049) /* A simpler turing complete version */
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05:55:52 <Sgeo_> https://gunkies.org/wiki/List_of_Computers the comment about ENIAC makes me think the author doesn't consider non-stored-program computers to be computers
06:01:08 <esolangs> [[Distressed]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168232 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+2712) Created page with "{{Lowercase}} '''distressed''' is a [[Turing complete]] version of [[Stroke]], that does not add any conditionals, wheels, or other tricks, but still has the same amount of commands. As such, distressed is arguably a better alternative to [[Stroke+-]]. It
06:01:52 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168233&oldid=168157 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+17) /* esolangs */
06:02:22 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168234&oldid=168233 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+38) /* esolangs */
06:04:52 <esolangs> [[Nope]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168235&oldid=165031 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+0) /* turing completeness proof */
06:06:13 <esolangs> [[401]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168236&oldid=165044 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-24) /* syntax */
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06:37:52 <esolangs> [[Resubmit]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168237 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1279) Created page with "'''Resubmit''' is a language created by [[User:Yayimhere]] based off of [[Re:direction]], specifically because the creator found the way Re:direction functions quite boring and uninteresting. As such, she created Resubmit. Instead of re-directing based on pr
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07:57:12 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168238&oldid=168146 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+156) nav bar
08:00:16 <esolangs> [[Classic?]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168239 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1008) Created page with "'''Classic?''' is a cellular automata based on string rewriting, and has an infinite number of states. Below is its semantics. == Semantics == === Cell contents/States === Each individual cell holds a string. This string can be of any length. Each program m
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08:19:52 <esolangs> [[Transet]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168240&oldid=156466 * ThrowAwayLurker * (-11)
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08:31:00 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168241&oldid=167838 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+149) /* Cat program */ Japanese grammar elevating RSI1 to CJK
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08:40:10 <esolangs> [[Set Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168242&oldid=34558 * ThrowAwayLurker * (+504)
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08:55:00 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168243&oldid=168241 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+2169) /* RaiseAfloppaFan's Stupid Idea 1 */ Core Entities overhaul + acknowledge that teto and mesmerizer are copyrighted + add truth machine + add modules + add new member access syntax
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09:31:50 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168244&oldid=168238 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (-382) Clean this up
09:32:18 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168245&oldid=168244 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+0) bruh
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09:43:55 <esolangs> [[Writr]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168246 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+2292) Created page with "{{lowercase}} '''writr''' is an esolang created by [[User:Yayimhere]], based on their other language [[Bijection]]. writr is basically just a superset of Bijection. Yayimhere herself personally does not think it is much of an esolang, but as it to a normal prog
09:50:16 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168247&oldid=168243 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+1037) /* RaiseAfloppaFan's Stupid Idea 1 */ Add some more stuff
09:51:19 <esolangs> [[Writr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168248&oldid=168246 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+195)
09:58:58 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168249&oldid=168247 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+61) /* RaiseAfloppaFan's Stupid Idea 1 */
10:07:39 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168250&oldid=168245 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+228) Added Redshift and Redshift-A
10:53:09 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168251&oldid=168249 * Hammy * (+339) /* Extension Examples */
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11:02:36 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168252&oldid=168251 * Hammy * (+512) /* User:Esolangist */
11:03:38 <esolangs> [[RSI1]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168253 * Hammy * (+78) Redirected page to [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox#RaiseAfloppaFan's Stupid Idea 1]]
11:06:42 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168254&oldid=168252 * Hammy * (+33) /* User:Esolangist */
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11:21:47 <esolangs> [[Encoded brain****]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168255 * Hammy * (+433) Created page with "Encoded brain**** is by [[User:Hammy]] ==How to code in it.== First you gotta convert some brain**** commands to letters <pre> + a - b < c > d . e , f [ g ] h (eof) i </pre> then caesar cipher it with the length of the code for the key and the ascii ran
11:23:57 <esolangs> [[Impossicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168256&oldid=167944 * Hammy * (+127) /* Commands... */
11:24:32 <esolangs> [[Impossicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168257&oldid=168256 * Hammy * (+67) /* Examples */
11:38:55 <esolangs> [[Nonbreakingspace]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168258 * Hammy * (+531) Created page with "{{Wrongtitle|title=(a nonbreaking space)}} :'''For ease of use, I will use the wrong title. Nonbreakingspace is a bf equivalent by [[User:Hammy]] ==Commands!== In this article, I will use the printable version. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Printable !! Actual (use a
12:06:24 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168259&oldid=168218 * PrySigneToFry * (+1346)
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12:22:34 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Testing Facility]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168260 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+326) Created page with " My testing facility, separate from [[User:raiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox|]]. == Wikitext stuff == <span class="spoiler"> you better not hover on this text or I'll crush you! </span> <span style="font-family: monospace;">[[Da
12:26:15 <esolangs> [[User:Esolangist/personal talk page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168261&oldid=167759 * Hammy * (+27)
12:26:47 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Testing Facility]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168262&oldid=168260 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+121) Add more stuff
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12:30:46 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Testing Facility]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168263&oldid=168262 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+257) I got the <code> style
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12:48:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168264&oldid=167938 * 47 * (+128) /* */
12:49:21 <esolangs> [[User:47]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168265&oldid=158297 * 47 * (+56)
12:50:35 <esolangs> [[User:Python yyds]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168266&oldid=167998 * Python yyds * (+520) /* /sanbox */
12:55:25 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Testing Facility]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168267&oldid=168263 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+747) Retrieved the <pre> styling
12:59:00 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ractangle]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168268&oldid=166920 * 47 * (+1325)
13:00:29 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168269&oldid=166104 * 47 * (+13)
13:06:28 <esolangs> [[SletScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168270&oldid=167852 * Cycwin * (+1080) yup
13:07:35 <esolangs> [[Just a bit]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168271 * Hammy * (+159) Created page with "Just a bit is by [[User:Hammy]] and it is based on bits ==Commands== ? = invert <>[] = works like [[bf]] () = run code inside '''once''' if current cell is 1"
13:12:15 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168272&oldid=168250 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+1484)
13:33:44 <esolangs> [[Ooooh!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168273 * Hammy * (+1449) Created page with "{{DISPLAYTITLE:''ooooh!''}} ''ooooh!'' is a cool turing complete language by [[User:Hammy]] with 3 commands ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" ! command !! what it does |- | ooooo... || flips the bit at the cell indexed by how many o's there are |- | h(code)hhhh...... || wh
13:36:11 <esolangs> [[Two step]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168274 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+983) Created page with "'''Two step''' is an esolang created by [[User:Yayimhere]] based on the commands <code>'a "a</code> defined on the [[Emmental]] talk page. == Etymology == Two step gets its name from the song genre that was being heard while creating it. == Memory == Two ste
13:37:07 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168275&oldid=168254 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+138) /* RaiseAfloppaFan's Stupid Idea 1 */ Potential name
13:39:13 <esolangs> [[Two step]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168276&oldid=168274 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+6) /* Commands */
13:39:48 <esolangs> [[Two step]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168277&oldid=168276 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+2) /* Commands */
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13:41:25 <esolangs> [[Two step]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168278&oldid=168277 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+138) /* Commands */
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13:44:04 <Yayimhere> hey, ais523, yesterday(I think) you said you had read Apraxia. As such, I was just wondering what you thought of it!
13:44:18 <int-e> Hehehe, this detail bugs me way more than it should, can you spot what's bothering me? https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez2-tilting.png
13:44:38 <ais523> Yayimhere: it wasn't clear to me whether it was possible to define arbitrary commands given the way in which commands were parsed
13:44:55 <ais523> and it also wasn't clear what happens to the new unused symbol Y after the definition of X was parsed
13:46:00 <esolangs> [[Apraxia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168279&oldid=168167 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+88) /* Syntax */
13:46:18 <ais523> doesn't that make it impossible for any program to run, because the only way to end a definition is with the start of another definition and so you can't do anything else?
13:46:38 <Yayimhere> ais523: no, because you have the "fixed point" style combinator
13:46:59 <ais523> right but those wouldn't actually be called, they would just be stuck inside a definition
13:47:24 <ais523> like, what you have here is a language where the same symbol that ends a definition also starts a new definition, so there is no way to do anything other than definitinos
13:48:01 <ais523> let's take your example program XCC
13:48:14 <ais523> the way I read it is, it starts with a definitino of X
13:48:20 <ais523> and then has a definition of C, which runs to the end of the program
13:48:35 <ais523> so nothing gets called
13:48:54 <Yayimhere> because the program has a pre definition for it
13:48:55 <ais523> well if C is defined, then C doesn't end a definition of X
13:49:07 <ais523> so the whole program is just a definition of X
13:49:24 <esolangs> [[Apraxia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168280&oldid=168279 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+48) /* Semantics */
13:49:49 <Yayimhere> because the last symbol always ends the program
13:50:04 <Yayimhere> X=C and then C=C(XYZ...) -> X(C(YZ...))
13:50:15 <ais523> well, in that case, the program is a definition of X as C, the last C ends the program, and then nothing actually runs?
13:50:39 <Yayimhere> because the whole program always gets called
13:50:48 <ais523> I guess the way to interpret this spec to make it work is that the last thing to be defined runs with the fixpoint as its argument
13:51:29 <esolangs> [[Apraxia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168281&oldid=168280 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+88) /* Semantics */
13:52:16 <esolangs> [[Apraxia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168282&oldid=168281 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+20) /* Semantics */
13:53:03 <ais523> hmm, I think maybe the trick to this sort of thing is to write an interpreter
13:53:15 <ais523> because that helps you to define the language more precisely
13:53:52 <Yayimhere> i am also considering that the call should only be the last variable defined
13:54:03 <Yayimhere> because then we can initialize more specific data
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13:55:04 <esolangs> [[Apraxia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168283&oldid=168282 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-91) /* Semantics */
13:55:41 <esolangs> [[Apraxia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168284&oldid=168283 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-105) /* Semantics */
13:57:37 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168285&oldid=168275 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+0) /* Cat program */ ,not
13:59:58 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168286&oldid=168234 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+15) /* esolangs */
14:00:41 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168287&oldid=168286 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+12) /* esolangs */
14:00:57 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168288&oldid=168285 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+335) /* Hello world program */ Fix slight mistake
14:09:55 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Yayimhere2(school) * moved [[Two step]] to [[Homunculus fallacy]]
14:10:09 <esolangs> [[Two step]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168291&oldid=168290 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-32) Blanked the page
14:11:26 <esolangs> [[Homunculus fallacy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168292&oldid=168289 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+76)
14:15:22 <esolangs> [[Boink]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168293 * Hammy * (+1104) Created page with "Boink is a language with 1 command by [[User:Hammy]]. ==Memory== Memory is stored on a tape of addresses which can be 0 or 1. ==The command== x:y is explained in this pseudocode. <pre> if address x is 0: jump to line y move the pointer left if the current cell isn't the f
14:16:04 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168294&oldid=168214 * NTMDev * (+79) /* Loops */
14:16:30 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168295&oldid=168294 * NTMDev * (-22) /* Simple Math operations */
14:17:00 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168296&oldid=168295 * NTMDev * (-99) /* Simple Math operations */
14:19:42 <int-e> avih: there's some interpreter-adjacent stuff but I have not given deep thought to BF optimization. Also this stuff is embarrassingly ancient. http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/impl/compilers/bf2c.hs is mine, for example.
14:21:08 <esolangs> [[Kava]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168297&oldid=149830 * Hammy * (+1) fixed spelling error
14:22:46 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168298&oldid=168296 * NTMDev * (+289) /* Code Structure */
14:25:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:'Python' is not recognized]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168299 * Hammy * (+223) Created page with "==Turing complete?== I'm sure this is turing complete. Here's proof. <pre> Underload This (abc) :a:b:c : = ^ _ </pre> ~~~~"
14:31:34 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168300&oldid=168298 * NTMDev * (+668) /* Loop structure Function */
14:35:57 <esolangs> [[BurgerFlipper]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168301&oldid=94100 * Hammy * (+367) /* Examples */
14:38:14 <esolangs> [[Talk:'Python' is not recognized]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168302&oldid=168299 * 47 * (+111) /* Turing complete? */
14:43:40 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168303&oldid=168288 * Hammy * (+167) /* Hello world program */
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14:48:16 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168304&oldid=168300 * NTMDev * (+830) /* Loop structure Function */
14:49:38 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168305&oldid=168304 * NTMDev * (+245) /* Code Structure */
14:49:57 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168306&oldid=168305 * NTMDev * (+13)
14:51:23 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168307&oldid=168306 * NTMDev * (+4) /* Any + AllCondition */
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15:21:52 <esolangs> [[LIGHTED]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168308 * Hammy * (+1882) Created page with "LIGHTED is a language based on light by [[User:Hammy]] ==Memory== There is an infinity by infinity box. A cursor is in the middle. Each cell in the box can store from 00 to ff in hexadecimal. ==Commands== <code>^v<></code> Moves the cursor in those directions respectively
15:35:46 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168309&oldid=168230 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+14881)
15:36:10 <esolangs> [[Template:Space]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168310 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+0) Created blank page
15:43:06 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168311&oldid=168309 * Sawyer.go0923 * (-20845) Blanked the page
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15:48:33 <esolangs> [[User talk:Sawyer.go0923]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168312 * Corbin * (+164) Created page with "Hi! Please remember to tag AI-generated content with [[:Category:Generated by AI]]. ~~~~"
16:07:35 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168313&oldid=168307 * NTMDev * (+744) /* Break and Continue */
16:09:32 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168314&oldid=168311 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+29932)
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16:40:23 <esolangs> [[GTA6]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168315 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+13213) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name = GTA6 |paradigms = Esoteric, imperative, self-modifying |year = 2025 |author = Grok |majorimpl = Reference interpreter (Python) |influenced = [[Brainfuck]], [[Deadfish]], [[Rockstar]] }} '''GTA6''' is an [[esoteric
16:41:08 <esolangs> [[GTA6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168316&oldid=168315 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+8831)
16:48:48 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168317&oldid=168314 * Sawyer.go0923 * (-23881)
16:57:31 <int-e> (I made the mistake of looking at that GTA6 page)
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17:39:20 <esolangs> [[Iterate/Floating-point]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168318 * Aadenboy * (+2039) just conversion from int to float for now
17:40:13 <esolangs> [[Iterate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168319&oldid=165906 * Aadenboy * (+29) /* Further reading */ list [[Iterate/Floating-point]]
17:56:14 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168320&oldid=168303 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+365) /* Potential names */
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18:04:02 <esolangs> [[User:47]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168321&oldid=168265 * Ractangle * (+29)
18:05:44 <esolangs> [[Template talk:Space]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168322 * Ractangle * (+69) Created page with "what, i think this needs to be removed because what the hell is this?"
18:06:05 <esolangs> [[Template talk:Space]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168323&oldid=168322 * Ractangle * (+151)
18:06:50 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hammy2 * New user account
18:08:19 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168324&oldid=168215 * Hammy2 * (+146)
18:09:16 <esolangs> [[User:Hammy2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168325 * Hammy2 * (+143) Created page with "hello there This is my backup account just in case something bad happens or I am on a different device my main account is [[User:Hammy]] bye"
18:14:48 <esolangs> [[Ooooh!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168326&oldid=168273 * Hammy2 * (-2) Accidental double ellipsis, oops
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18:37:00 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168327&oldid=168320 * Hammy2 * (+136) /* Member/Method Access */
18:41:16 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168328&oldid=168327 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+71) /* RaiseAfloppaFan's Stupid Idea 1 */ Move to Atamagaokashii
18:42:12 <esolangs> [[Atamagaokashii]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168329 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+12920) Move RSI1 to Atamagaokashii
18:42:58 <esolangs> [[RSI1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168330&oldid=168253 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (-50) RSI1 is now Atamagaokashii
18:45:33 <esolangs> [[Homunculus fallacy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168331&oldid=168292 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+79) /* Commands */
18:49:06 <esolangs> [[Atamagaokashii]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168332&oldid=168329 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+499) Update information
18:49:40 <esolangs> [[Atamagaokashii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168333&oldid=168332 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+0) Fix user edited category
18:52:28 <esolangs> [[Homunculus fallacy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168334&oldid=168331 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+234) /* Commands */
18:55:32 <esolangs> [[Password game]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168335 * Hammy2 * (+690) Created page with "Password game is a program form by [[User:Hammy]] inspired by the [https://neal.fun/password-game password game] ==How to implement== Take input from user and check these: * if it contains capital letters * if it contains a number * if it contains #, @ or ? * if it
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19:14:20 <esolangs> [[Compute]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168336&oldid=164003 * Hammy2 * (+165) /* Unofficial brainfuck intepreter */
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19:29:00 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168337&oldid=168317 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+14845)
19:37:09 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168338&oldid=168337 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+5067)
19:38:10 <esolangs> [[Nullifinitesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168339&oldid=168338 * Sawyer.go0923 * (-25963) Blanked the page
19:44:04 <esolangs> [[Atamagaokashii]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168340&oldid=168333 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+6153) Replace all instances of "RSI0" with "Atamagaokashii" + add time travel example + Turing-completeness confirmation by BF simulation
19:56:58 <esolangs> [[Abyssal-9]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168341 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+16723) Created page with "== Abyssal-9 == '''Abyssal-9''' is a deterministic, intentionally unreadable esoteric programming language designed to be astronomically difficult to analyze, reason about, or craft programs for by hand. This page is the canonical MediaWiki source: it defines c
20:04:36 <avih> int-e: thanks. btw, in the time i spent on it, i was not able to decipher your counter code... :) i think it's above my pay grade...
20:05:54 <avih> (i get the end of printing \n and clear and goto 1st digit, but that's trivial. the rest i just don't get
20:06:07 <int-e> avih: take an interpreter, add an instruction that prints out a chunk of the tape around the head, then watch the program in action
20:06:49 <avih> yeah, it's possible. might be a good use case for my debugger
20:06:50 <int-e> the increment code is specialized
20:07:06 <avih> i figured as much
20:07:13 <int-e> and was fiddly to get working
20:08:01 <avih> yeah, to minimize the size it becomes very "entangled" for a lack of a better word.
20:08:13 <int-e> (I had a simpler version that produced 1, 02, 003, 0004, etc, adding an extra leading 0 in each step... and it took me quite a while to fix that properly :P)
20:10:08 <avih> is there a name for this kind of approach to coding? the kind of thing you did with the "if (==0) BODY" thing and this counter code? it feels to me like it's hard to prove invariants with it. "entangled" is the best word i can come up with, but it's not really that. it's kind of inter-dependent and tailored to the use case to minimize the code... hard to generalize it.
20:11:31 <int-e> No real name, though there are some attributes that come to mind like unstructured and low-level...
20:12:09 <avih> yeah. it should have a name. i'm sure you're not the 1st not the last who uses this approach to minimize size.
20:12:13 <esolangs> [[Atamagaokashii]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168342&oldid=168340 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+2822) Syntax extension addition
20:13:28 <avih> it's like it's shrinks to the point where it's impossible to move anything. any instruction can have several implications and all of them are tied together and depend on all those interactions being just right
20:13:33 <int-e> but people often do things without naming them
20:14:02 <int-e> Naming is for formal publication or teaching :P
20:14:06 <avih> (in this case, except the trailer of printing the newline, which is stand alone)
20:14:30 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168343&oldid=168272 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (-73) Fixed RSI1 to be Atamagaokashii
20:15:06 <avih> int-e: not only publications, also conversations, like this one
20:15:11 <int-e> avih: the number printing part should be easy enough still, given that the tape layout is digits (encoded as 1 to 10) spaced 2 cells apart
20:15:40 <int-e> avih: the incrementing code is where I really think it would help to see it in action
20:16:30 <avih> you have there one unbalanced loop which goes 4 cells left, when the cells are on x3 basis...
20:16:58 <int-e> avih: no they're only 2 apart, not 3.
20:17:11 <avih> (or x2? is "two cells apart" with two cells between each two digits?)
20:18:00 <avih> and yeah, i also figured i could do the same (1 tmp between each two cells), so working on a cell could use two temps on its sides)
20:20:23 <avih> we gotta find a name for this kind of coding :)
20:21:50 <avih> it's like spaghetti code, but strictly derived from a goal rather than due to laziness or inability
20:23:15 <avih> it's not messy. it serves a purpose. you can't come up with it by being sloppy
20:23:39 <avih> it _looks_ messy, but it's not.
20:24:46 <int-e> oh but it is messy. [----------[+++++++++++[>>]>+<]+>>] makes a mess and <[-<-<<--<]>++ cleans it up :P
20:25:03 <avih> but then if one wants to make some cmall change in behavior, it would likely result in way more code changes than in more "structured" code
20:25:19 <avih> small* (wtf?!)
20:26:09 <avih> i think "size optimized entanglement" :)
20:28:52 <avih> yeah, these parts which you posted are the main marrier for me
20:29:27 <avih> (i did order a new kb, but i don't think it's that. i think i got bf'ed)
20:38:08 <esolangs> [[Atamagaokashii]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168344&oldid=168342 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+2320) Fixed the syntax extension section + added some sections that should've been there
20:42:39 <esolangs> [[Atamagaokashii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168345&oldid=168344 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+326) An extra rule
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21:08:57 <esolangs> [[Contains everything]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168346 * C++DSUCKER * (+947) Created page with "This is a set theory based language, Initially designed by ~~~ but with the logical operator removed with help of uni on discord (though these changes did not make it into the final language). the original used nand but i eventually went with implies as fa
21:10:57 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168347&oldid=168178 * C++DSUCKER * (+26)
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21:11:36 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168348&oldid=168347 * C++DSUCKER * (+0)
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21:19:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Buckets * uploaded "[[File:Bass1.png]]": This bass is From getting Images And Credit To 'tumart'.
21:20:55 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[File:Bass1.png]]": Copyright violation: this image is not public domain (i.e. it is copyrighted by its creator, as most images are by default), and thus we can't host it here even though you gave credit to the author
21:21:17 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Buckets * uploaded "[[File:Bass2.png]]": This bass is From getting Images And Credit To 'RapidEye'.
21:21:46 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[File:Bass2.png]]": Copyright violation: this image is not public domain (i.e. it is copyrighted by its creator, as most images are by default), and thus we can't host it here even though you gave credit to the author
21:24:25 <esolangs> [[Abyssal-9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168351&oldid=168341 * Sawyer.go0923 * (-2909)
21:24:38 <esolangs> [[User talk:Buckets]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168352&oldid=153348 * Ais523 * (+949) /* Uploading non-public-domain images */ new section
21:25:09 <esolangs> [[Left Curly Brace Symbol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168353&oldid=101180 * Hammy2 * (+61) /* Hello, World */
21:25:40 <esolangs> [[Contains everything]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168354&oldid=168346 * C++DSUCKER * (+151)
21:25:46 <esolangs> [[Abyssal-9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168355&oldid=168351 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+2909)
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21:28:21 <avih> int-e: so i did try the reverse values (print 58 - cell val), and it works, and a bit smaller. you said yesterday that storing negatives might make things simpler, but i don't have any insight where it helps. can you explain please?
21:30:07 <int-e> avih: when you compute 58 - cell, you destroy the cell value so you have to copy it back, right? I felt, and this may be wrong, that this extra copy would be more expensive than adding and subtracting 58 in place
21:30:52 <esolangs> [[5D 5D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel With Multiverse Time Travel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168356&oldid=139583 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+138) /* Examples */
21:30:55 <avih> i do destroy and restore it, yes. but not sure what it means to add/subtract inplace
21:32:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:Abyssal-9]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168357 * Corbin * (+149) Second request: tag chatbot output.
21:33:00 <int-e> you can increment a cell by 58 doing something like <++++++[>++++++++++<-]>-- and then do basically the same thing to subtract 58 again, so the digit value that you have to preserve never moves.
21:33:00 <avih> or rather, i think i understand, but i'm not sure it would end up smaller. originally i did add and subtract 47 in place, but then i ended up making a copy first, which was smaller, so i don't know whether inplace here would help
21:33:17 <esolangs> [[Abyssal-9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168358&oldid=168355 * Corbin * (+30) Clearly generated by a tool trained to emit Markdown.
21:34:14 <int-e> and there's some room for refinement. I ended up with >++++++++[<<++>++++++>-]<-.+<[>---<-]< for adding and subtracting 47
21:34:19 <avih> right, similar to this (which adds/subs 47): < +++++ +++ [>+++++ +<-]>- . < +++++ +++ [>----- -<-]>+
21:34:41 <int-e> (and moving two places to the left)
21:35:03 <avih> but this (also add/sub 47) ended up smaller: [<+<+>>-]<[>+<-] . ++++++++[<++++++>-]<-.[-]<
21:35:50 <esolangs> [[User talk:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168359&oldid=168352 * Buckets * (+210)
21:35:57 <avih> yeah, i don't think i followed this math at your code either. off the top of my head i didn't get where -3 comes from
21:36:58 <avih> but did it end up smaller than writing 6 + or - ?
21:37:08 <int-e> yes: >++++++++[<<+>++++++>-]<-.+<[>------<-]<
21:37:52 <avih> ok, i'll need to look at it more carefully. i get a hunch of what it might do, but not the specifics.
21:37:59 <int-e> which in term is shorter than >++++++++[<++++++>-]<-.+<++++++++[>------<-]<
21:39:15 <avih> :) you also need a new kb/brain
21:39:52 <int-e> so basically all these 3 versions do the same thing: https://paste.debian.net/1408790/
21:40:51 <avih> right, so i get the 1st, but not yet the others. i'll look at that a bit. shouldn't be rocket science, unlike your digit scanning code ;)
21:41:03 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168360&oldid=168177 * Buckets * (+9)
21:41:23 <avih> actually, i do hope rockets code is nothing like your digits scanning code
21:41:36 <int-e> avih: the second copies over the first 8 over to where the second 8 would be initialized
21:41:47 <int-e> second = second version
21:42:00 <avih> i'll look at it. i should be able to get it
21:42:25 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168361&oldid=168348 * Buckets * (+10)
21:42:49 <esolangs> [[Ket]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168362 * Buckets * (+1063) Created page with "Ket is an Esoteric Programming Language created By [[User:Buckets]] in 2021, And The Second Of the Trio for A Very Terrible Idea. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | ^><small><nowiki>|</nowiki></small> || If It Is Pointing at a Bass, then it will push Th
21:43:19 <avih> int-e: while i do want to get it, and i will, my gut feeling is that i don't want to have such code for the sake of size.
21:43:46 <avih> (the add/sub might be ok, but in general)
21:44:16 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168363&oldid=168360 * Buckets * (+0)
21:44:16 <int-e> That's fair. This kind of thing is fun for toy code. If your goal is to write "real" programs it's not so great, except maybe for primitives.
21:45:02 <int-e> but you can see that this affects the assessment of whether to copy values or not
21:45:19 <avih> yeah, low level isolated "leafs" of code which might need to squeeze every possible byte might make use if that. but i'd hesitate even with that TBH...
21:45:51 <avih> right about the assembly
21:50:29 <esolangs> [[Contains everything]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168364&oldid=168354 * C++DSUCKER * (+64)
21:51:31 <avih> (don't get me wrong, i do get it, and i've done that myself too, but it's the kind of pain/fun combo which i can do without ;) )
21:53:00 <avih> (might have been a different matter if it was for some prize or other tangible benefits, but purely as masochistic fun, not sure)
21:53:52 <avih> well, for me it's pain/fun. for others it could be purely fun.
21:54:58 <esolangs> [[Abyssal-9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168365&oldid=168358 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+39)
22:01:00 <avih> int-e: yeah, i get it. at the last version, while you add 48 to the original val, you also set one of the temps as 16, then mult it by 3 to get 48 (and handle the -1 as needed). yes?
22:01:43 <avih> so i see how it helps inplace too. thanks.
22:03:20 <avih> basically it reduces the final 48 by making parts of it during the 1st 48
22:03:52 <avih> rather than new 48 from scratch for the sub
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22:07:20 <avih> hmm.. so what if during the add, 48 is also created at the other tmp, then it's ready for the subtract?
22:08:52 <int-e> avih: that would be a tad longer: https://paste.debian.net/1408794/ (last line)
22:09:22 <avih> yeah >++++++++[<<++++++>++++++>-]<-.+<[->-<]>
22:09:32 <avih> (i just wrote it too)
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22:41:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Contains everything]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168366 * Corbin * (+1066) I strongly doubt that this is uncomputable.
22:45:32 <esolangs> [[Abyssal-9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168367&oldid=168365 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+60)
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22:47:04 <esolangs> [[Abyssal-9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168368&oldid=168367 * Corbin * (+6) Fix categories. Joke languages aren't categorized with non-joke languages. Chatbot-generated content should be tagged.
22:48:04 <esolangs> [[Category:HardestEsolangs]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168369 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+55) Created page with "These are the list of languages that CANNOT be solvable"
22:48:31 <esolangs> [[Abyssal-9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168370&oldid=168368 * Sawyer.go0923 * (+29)
22:49:13 <esolangs> [[Category talk:HardestEsolangs]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168371 * Corbin * (+237) Created page with "Categories created without prior discussion are likely to be deleted without warning. Please read [[esolang:policy]] and [[esolang:categorization]]. Thanks! ~~~~"
22:52:54 <int-e> ...of course the BF code added in https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=5D_5D_Brainfuck_With_Multiverse_Time_Travel_With_Multiverse_Time_Travel&diff=prev&oldid=168356 prints f--- y-- (spelled out)
22:56:40 <esolangs> [[Abyssal-9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168372&oldid=168370 * Cyclic Tag * (+94)
22:56:53 <esolangs> [[Abyssal-9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168373&oldid=168372 * Cyclic Tag * (+4)
22:58:20 <esolangs> [[User:Cyclic Tag/LLM page index]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168374 * Cyclic Tag * (+72) Created page with "This is a list of pages tagged with '''an LLM notice'''. * [[Abyssal-9]]"
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22:59:52 <esolangs> [[User:Cyclic Tag/LLM page index]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168375&oldid=168374 * Cyclic Tag * (+60)
23:00:06 <korvo> Oh cool, Cyclic Tag doesn't like this spam either.
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23:08:26 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:HardestEsolangs]]": unapproved category (also this would be the wrong name for it even if it were approved, and it is likely to be too subjective to be approved)
23:08:38 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Candidates for deletion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168376&oldid=160143 * Cyclic Tag * (+10) /* Candidates for deletion */
23:10:07 <ais523> one of the other admins randomly turned up to delete an unapproved category a few days ago, I was heartened to know it isn't just me
23:10:22 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Candidates for deletion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168377&oldid=168376 * Cyclic Tag * (+21)
23:11:02 <esolangs> [[Abyssal-9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168378&oldid=168373 * Cyclic Tag * (-29) Unapproved cat
23:18:45 <esolangs> [[5D 5D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel With Multiverse Time Travel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168379&oldid=168356 * Int-e * (-138) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/168356|168356]] by [[Special:Contributions/Sawyer.go0923|Sawyer.go0923]] ([[User talk:Sawyer.go0923|talk]]) The added example prints an expletive and uses none of the 5D... language featur
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