{{User:Hammy/Lime|S=300|X=0|Y=300|O=0.4|T=1.2|N=lime1}} {{User:Hammy/Lime|S=400|X=200|Y=100|O=0.35|T=1.
< 1764417823 313618 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1764419817 979746 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RaiseAfloppaFan392514]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169594&oldid=169326 5* 03RaiseAfloppaFan3925 5* (+3116) 10trilime + scratch + haskell
< 1764424135 561860 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-154-63.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
< 1764424962 33517 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5005:5ee4:6658:fef3 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1764425711 374999 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a JOIN #esolangs fungot :fungot-0.1
< 1764425749 404794 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5005:5ee4:6658:fef3 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1764426231 467590 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Summary14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169595 5* 03BestCoder 5* (+1390) 10Created page with "Summary is a list of numbers where the sum of consecutive numbers determines the command == Interpreter == def interpret(nums): stack = [] i = 0 while i < len(nums)-1: sum_ = nums[i]+nums[i+1] if sum_ == 1: if i+2 < len(
> 1764426431 296185 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Waffelz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169596&oldid=169457 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+161) 10/* Tea */
> 1764426486 894185 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07DQ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169597&oldid=165041 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-39) 10
> 1764427443 586212 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Needle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169598&oldid=169429 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+53) 10Replaced halt with unconditional jump which was used to simulate it and updated the example program
> 1764427597 450113 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Semi-serious language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169599&oldid=165386 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+14) 10/* A */ Added Autopsy
> 1764427875 11554 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pointer-based Minsky machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169600&oldid=144813 5* 0347 5* (-8) 10
> 1764427957 499153 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Num Rect14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169601 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+1521) 10Created page with "'''Num Rect''' is a variant/encoding of [[RECT4n=GLE]] that is 1 dimensional, and may be useful for reasoning about the language itself. It is a sort of run length encoding. == Encoding == Every program takes the form: ''symbol'' | ''symb
> 1764428193 255056 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Num Rect14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169602&oldid=169601 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-64) 10/* Encoding */
> 1764428205 418626 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Num Rect14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169603&oldid=169602 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+7) 10/* Example/Translation */
> 1764428256 695564 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07RECT4n=GLE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169604&oldid=169472 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-31) 10/* example programs */
> 1764428318 62505 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07RECT4n=GLE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169605&oldid=169604 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+31) 10/* External resources */
> 1764428578 148020 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Esolangist/Chess14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169606&oldid=167439 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+585) 10
< 1764428626 100544 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Yayimhere
< 1764428632 1700 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hello
> 1764428675 25083 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Esolangist/Chess14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169607&oldid=169606 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+5) 10
> 1764429123 147725 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07StackBit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169608&oldid=164477 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+114) 10Added TC proof for reversible
> 1764429809 472315 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Esolangist/Chess14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169609&oldid=169607 5* 03 5* (+73) 10/* Proposals of PrySigneToFry */
< 1764430819 203886 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1764430967 467407 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hello ais523
< 1764430972 342320 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi Yayimhere
> 1764430979 751524 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Esolangist/Chess14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169610&oldid=169609 5* 03Esolangist alt 5* (+6) 10Esolangist alt
> 1764431068 493901 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Esolangist/Chess14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169611&oldid=169610 5* 03Esolangist alt 5* (+104) 10Esolangist alt
< 1764431071 689907 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how are you doing?
< 1764431148 707918 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :still sleeping at the wrong time of day, and having trouble changing it
< 1764431153 178839 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :other than that, OK
< 1764431170 591834 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hope you at some point will be able to change it
> 1764431183 270277 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Esolangist/Chess14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169612&oldid=169611 5* 03Esolangist alt 5* (+94) 10Esolangist alt
< 1764431286 111366 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, I saw your ACL, and it got me thinking about APL again (in particular, what features a language needs to have to be considered an APL)
< 1764431300 490082 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: oh
< 1764431303 220335 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm
< 1764431316 980188 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's a marketing/recruitment person at one of the big APL companies who often advertises at esolangers due to thinking that they would be some of the best people to understand APL
< 1764431332 910354 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :who thinks that Jelly is an APL due to the array-processing and tacit nature of it
< 1764431346 926616 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i marked it as APL-like since the symbols, and functions I guess
< 1764431350 889316 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I'm wondering how far you can stray from that formula before the language stops being an APL
< 1764431354 136971 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but thats propably not enough
< 1764431366 959865 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's APL-resembling in syntax
< 1764431374 783046 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764431386 869161 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and APL does have the "concatenation = composition" rule, at least sometimes
< 1764431393 549943 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, does this meant that APL Is a concatenative language?
< 1764431402 206715 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what a question
< 1764431566 27989 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but not one for me to answer, as I do not have much experience with concatenative languages
> 1764431575 425340 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rune14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169613 5* 03Timm 5* (+719) 10Created page with "
another name of this esolang
xu /xu/ do print top of stack
xo invert value 0 - 255
ho start the program
xa push to stack in this way {| class="wikitable" |+ numbers
order is small...big numbers |- ! rune
> 1764431616 593719 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Timm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169614&oldid=169585 5* 03Timm 5* (+17) 10
< 1764431623 730509 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to me it's an awkward question to answer because concatenativeness is really a property of syntax, and the syntax of languages like APL and Jelly isn't quite concatenative over small scales but is over larger scales
< 1764431650 826572 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm
< 1764431724 111193 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. in Jelly, Ḥ+ is λ(x,y).2x+y, 3 calculates 3, and Ḥ+3 calculates λx.2x+3 or λ(x,y).2x+3
< 1764431727 572505 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, ais523, how did you happen to stumble upon ACL?
< 1764431748 583817 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :mostly looking for rules-breaking edits but sometimes i find interesting non-rules-breaking edits instead
< 1764431757 505940 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1764431759 831386 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea makes sense
< 1764431767 351396 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or people asking for admin help
< 1764431769 812920 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what did you think of it btw?
> 1764431793 279731 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Summary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169615&oldid=169595 5* 03BestCoder 5* (+53) 10/* Interpreter */
< 1764431796 10257 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I didn't really evaluate the set of combinators
< 1764431801 972534 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :makes sense
< 1764431818 112150 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually, composition in that language is application, not concatenation
< 1764431820 831878 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was a language created to be the across in Along and Across
< 1764431866 320905 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is quite a speciifc difference from at least Jelly (I'm not sure how you do function application in APL or if it even has higher-order functions)
> 1764431883 809202 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Summary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169616&oldid=169615 5* 03BestCoder 5* (+2002) 10
< 1764431890 331296 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or, well, I know how to apply a function to an array, just not how to apply it to another function
< 1764432002 348934 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i dont know if I should try and learn APL
< 1764432037 756916 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it has operators that can apply to functions/data and produce new functions, but it's more explicitly second-order I think(?)
< 1764432054 471417 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :at least extrapolating from what I know about J, but my APL-family knowledge is.. a bit rusty
> 1764432127 997318 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169617&oldid=169561 5* 03Ais523 5* (+841) 10/* Category:Register based */ some thoughts
< 1764432195 265681 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: I think the idea of array programming is worth learning, but APL may be a bad language to learn it from, it has a lot of other unfamiliar features which aren't inherently linked to the basic concept and will be distractions
< 1764432215 252324 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: hm
< 1764432347 264129 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there is a domain-specific language I was working on (not an esolang) which wasn't originally an array programming language, but then I realised that it would be much easier to understand (and possibly implement) if I redesigned it as an array programming language
< 1764432379 832247 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh cool
< 1764432389 457123 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what was the domain?
< 1764432409 343644 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :SIMD programming
< 1764432426 863062 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :modern compilers often try to SIMDify code, but often aren't very good at it
< 1764432466 360888 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :they start with a non-SIMD version of the program and try to recompile it as SIMD but things often go wrong (either due to the compiler coming up with an unnecessarily complex solution or due to it being unable to prove that the optimisation is correct)
< 1764432466 526700 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm
< 1764432504 816361 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so my approach was to design a language which only supported operations that were guaranteed to SIMDify correctly, with the intention of using to write the inner loops in programs that wanted to have SIMD inner loops
< 1764432517 177433 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, cool
< 1764432530 533301 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(this also has the theoretical advantage that it should port to GPUs pretty easily)
< 1764432611 201409 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the particular problem that caused the issue for me is that I wanted to SIMDify an algorithm that had a widening multiply in it
< 1764432619 256892 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :current compilers are able to do that, but they do it very inefficiently
< 1764432683 291176 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :let's use the example of "widening-multiply two values and add the halves together", and use letters to represent different array elements
< 1764432765 65574 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the compilers are doing abcdefgh × jklmnopq = AJBKCLDM, ENFOGPHQ where, e.g., AJ is the doubly-wide version of A×J
< 1764432777 152096 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm
< 1764432793 625065 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it would be much more efficient to multiply them as AJCLENGP, BKDMFOHQ
< 1764432806 65831 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because then the values don't have to move around as much within the register
< 1764432818 546206 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :all the values end up close to where they originally came from
< 1764432846 253542 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :most modern processors only have one vector shuffler, so they can only move around values within one SIMD register at a time
< 1764432870 674261 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and so vector shuffling becomes a huge bottleneck if you implement it the compiler's way
< 1764432879 767301 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764432979 271724 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: That's definitely an APLish perspective.
< 1764432991 643766 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: what are you referring to with "that"?
< 1764432993 636587 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :We've got another chess game at [[user:esolangist/chess]].
< 1764433007 52865 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: is that good or bad?
< 1764433014 467965 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Like, ^^^^. The whole idea of a SIMD-oriented language with that sort of vectorized-first thinkin.
< 1764433023 710900 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: oh yes, it's definitely an array programming language
< 1764433033 880525 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: It's not allowed. If people want to play chess then they can go to one of the big public chess servers.
< 1764433035 283371 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it took me a while to notice, and adapt the syntax to match
< 1764433038 470697 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because I was thinking too operationally
< 1764433048 53365 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: yea ok I would have guessed
< 1764433060 352022 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: the risk is that Esolang ends up being classified as a social media site, in which case it would get banned in several countries and nobody wants that
< 1764433077 357434 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: in fact
< 1764433086 171322 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(either banned, or under so many regulations that we wouldn't be able to comply with it and then it would effectively be banned)
> 1764433115 431867 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Onecommand14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169618 5* 03Esolangist alt 5* (+772) 10Esolangist alt
> 1764433209 506610 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169619 5* 03Timm 5* (+366) 10Created page with "not [[]]
:]:) var value arguments code list id parentheses ...} are number x ...} are number x*10 function code name has loop is code is null var change invert sign of number if a to b A code is == is => is =! is !> is output is i
> 1764433227 736077 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169620&oldid=169619 5* 03Timm 5* (-1) 10
> 1764433255 714135 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Timm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169621&oldid=169614 5* 03Timm 5* (+8) 10
> 1764433266 84933 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Timm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169622&oldid=169621 5* 03Timm 5* (+1) 10
< 1764433281 272476 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: to go back on "topic" did you ever complete the language?
< 1764433328 581543 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no – I ran into problems trying to implement the parser, and I was working on a parser generator separately at the time
< 1764433335 353029 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I decided to prioritise work on the parser generator instead
< 1764433359 146992 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: oh
< 1764433360 646596 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well
< 1764434399 767544 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, korvo, since your here, you've gotten me to interpret my languages more
< 1764434401 332844 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so thanks
< 1764434473 344884 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: Glad to hear that. FWIW I went ahead and made an expression language and parser for Vixen: https://bpa.st/TCLA
< 1764434491 712648 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: oh, cool!
< 1764434525 538040 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's a pretty small language! Not every Smalltalk descendant literally fits on a card, but this one does.
< 1764434776 112724 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc6:3201:5d9f:ed41:eaf:6c93 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
> 1764435068 636686 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Esolangist/Chess14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169623&oldid=169612 5* 03 5* (+139) 10If you wanna start, then add your move. If you don't wanna play, you can remove my board.
> 1764435222 769748 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hammy/Template:Whoops214]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169624 5* 03Esolangist alt 5* (+416) 10Esolangist alt
> 1764436041 119740 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Esolangist/Chess14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169625 5* 03Corbin 5* (+183) 10Created page with "Hi! This page may be deleted. In general, the wiki isn't a social-media site and we don't host gaming. ~~~~"
< 1764436648 392128 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan JOIN #esolangs PoolloverNathan :nathan
> 1764437575 732896 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hammy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169626&oldid=168155 5* 03Esolangist alt 5* (+405) 10Esolangist alt
> 1764437827 61058 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Esolangist/Chess14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169627&oldid=169623 5* 03Esolangist alt 5* (-1837) 10Esolangist alt
< 1764437883 829042 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, that was dramatic. While it was effective, I'm not sure that such a heavy-handed intervention was appropriate; I could have been more polite.
< 1764437911 400280 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :do we have stated rules on the wiki about this?
< 1764437947 666324 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i guess
< 1764437956 30279 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Articles should be on the subject of esoteric programming languages, or about subjects relevant to these, for example computation theory." is that
< 1764437956 426056 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: no; I've been meaning to write some for a while but would need to be very careful to get them right
< 1764437967 708525 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: hm
< 1764437972 439135 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and there are limits to how much time I can spend on the wiki
< 1764437977 466050 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in fact
< 1764437981 786658 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Not yet. I can write something up. It is existentially important that the wiki not be considered social media, but so far we haven't needed to point at the rules.
< 1764437993 446040 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1764438150 526889 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am possibly too forgiving as a moderator (which can make me seem unfair sometimes – because if I don't shut down rulebreaking straight away it looks more arbitrary when I shut it down later)
< 1764438169 106106 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe
< 1764438259 709924 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hopefully this isnt off topic, but how did the APL creators come up with so many symbols
< 1764438429 718838 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's old enough that it wasn't obvious that this was a bad way to do things
< 1764438441 372539 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wow
< 1764438451 540561 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would love to hear thee process of making each symbol
< 1764438452 469962 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :nowdays we have standardised character sets that we know that most people can type
< 1764438458 465725 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764438464 810605 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also,
< 1764438478 591941 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how was APL's alphabet added to unicode?
< 1764438481 496497 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but at the time there weren't really standards
< 1764438488 511110 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764438513 177436 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Unicode aims to support all existing character codings at the time it was created, at least some files existed that were written in APL characters, so Unicode added them
< 1764438544 158718 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh wow
< 1764438562 987315 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the same thing is what lead to emoji – there was some obscure Japanese text messaging format which decided to add emoji at otherwise unused codepoints
< 1764438578 776959 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and Unicode added them too, so it could represent the old text messages, and ended up popularising them
< 1764438589 896497 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Who invented unicode
< 1764438592 205570 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually
< 1764438597 161666 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :who's that dedicated
< 1764438653 473719 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode#History
< 1764438662 476640 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I seem to remember the early history of Unicode was really complicated
< 1764438682 985761 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :partly because companies started getting involved and that always makes things more complicated, partly because they underestimated how many codepoints they would need
< 1764438705 926482 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1764438797 163228 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's a quote on Wikipedia about saying that they were sure that there would be less than 16384 characters to cover, but it turns out that Chinese/Japanese/Korean covered over 20,000 even if you considered similar-looking characters in different languages to be the same
< 1764438817 68121 :strerror!~strerror@user/strerror PRIVMSG #esolangs :"APL creators" — wasn't it all just Iverson
< 1764438818 199579 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: AIUI there are still some APL symbols that aren't in Unicode. Unicode's main goal is to include the tools of natlangs, and APL's not actually part of that mission. Other examples of orthographies not in Unicode include Klingon and Solresol.
< 1764438839 416131 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: ah ok
< 1764438855 751347 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :strerror: I would guess theres more but I have no real idea
< 1764438902 456278 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: it wouldn't surprise me if Unicode's goals have become fuzzier over time
< 1764438939 782460 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5005:5ee4:6658:fef3 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1764438946 423955 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: You can always give me admin tools. You can ask me to stick to an articles-for-deletion process and only delete articles that everybody has agreed should be deleted. I honestly admire your good judgement in not trusting me with that.
< 1764438952 351222 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ACTION just a little Iago
< 1764438966 739908 :strerror!~strerror@user/strerror PRIVMSG #esolangs :And in fact the notation came first, before computers became available to implement it on
< 1764438994 331579 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :strerror: wow
< 1764439000 746474 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm actually not sure I've ever made anyone an admin
< 1764439007 447346 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think I'm technically capable of doing so, but have never needed to check
< 1764439026 390565 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because there have always been (and still are) higher-ranking admins, so normally they would do it instead
< 1764439029 247206 :strerror!~strerror@user/strerror PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Similar to when McCarthy invented Lisp, it was initially notation)
< 1764439031 638228 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :("most active" ≠ "highest ranking")
< 1764439052 215458 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5005:5ee4:6658:fef3 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1764439409 265747 :strerror!~strerror@user/strerror PRIVMSG #esolangs :Wikipedia: “In 1963, Falkoff, Iverson, and Edward H. Sussenguth Jr., all working at IBM, used the notation for a formal description of the IBM System/360 series machine ...” — perhaps multiple people were needed to turn APL into an executable language
< 1764439554 500759 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, I didn't actually say it last time. Yayimhere, most languages start as blackboard notation for programmers collaborating together. First as small expressions, then one-liners, then multi-line programs with some sort of stored procedure or routine.
< 1764439575 615567 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: oh, thats pretty cool!
< 1764439584 259691 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Relevant Perlis quotes: "Over the centuries the Indians developed sign language for communicating phenomena of interest. Programmers from different tribes (FORTRAN, LISP, ALGOL, SNOBOL, etc.) could use one that doesn't require them to carry a blackboard on their ponies."
< 1764439618 224760 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"It is not a language's weakness but its strengths that control the gradient of its change: Alas, a language never escapes its embryonic sac." Both from the standard quote page: https://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html
< 1764439667 82818 :strerror!~strerror@user/strerror PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: what would a language need to express that example with the SIMD vector shuffle? I guess you'd like a compiler to figure out the layout that is cheapest on the target processor, but that sounds even harder than what current auto-vectorizers already have to do with a known layout (and IME with AVX2, they often don't generate efficient instruction sequences)
< 1764439725 54895 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :strerror: I think this is possible just as a compiler optimisation, you basically just look at the addresses that are being read and written and do the even element / odd element split when working with values that are wider than the spacing between addresses
< 1764439749 64189 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I think this is historically true but less common nowadays
< 1764439775 917962 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :languages like Go and Swift were intentionally created from scratch to solve particular problems the companies creating them had
< 1764439782 914600 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :rather than evolving
< 1764439887 299544 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I think that it's morally close enough when we think about how we want to turn traditional expressions of engineering into computerized expressions. I might suggest that FORTH is a fundamentally different approach to growing a language, tied to its interpreter and interactive session rather than a blackboard.
< 1764439911 756432 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are so many ways that programming languages get created
< 1764439922 347446 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :especially with the simple computational models, they're often more discovered than engineered
< 1764439930 257269 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(e.g. The Waterfall Model and Genera Tag)
< 1764439942 590486 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764439957 651939 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what does discovered rlly imply?
< 1764439965 110986 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like what does it mean to discover a language?
< 1764439986 666110 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, when you're programming you have various mental representations of the steps you're going through
< 1764439995 55590 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which don't necessarily exactly match the language you're usign
< 1764439995 943245 :strerror!~strerror@user/strerror PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yes that would work for widening operations. I thought you were using it as an example of something more general
< 1764440006 410466 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: true
< 1764440008 586314 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so that's one way to discover a langauge
< 1764440040 889113 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is another way perhaps "oh thats an obvious way to simplify [other thing]"?
< 1764440047 286956 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :strerror: there might be a generalisation but if so I don't know what it is (other than the trivial generalisation to narrowing operations in which you represent the narrowed value using the full width of the original rather than trying to compress)
< 1764440056 639421 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: yes, I think so
< 1764440065 27039 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or not even obvious, just something I was messing around with
< 1764440084 102797 :Yayimhere59!~Yayimhere@197.184.66.105 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Yayimhere
< 1764440084 977749 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like, when I was looking into making INTERCAL Turing-complete without using expressions other than the constant #1
< 1764440098 366462 :Yayimhere59!~Yayimhere@197.184.66.105 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh wow
< 1764440106 103137 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the language I ended up with was The Waterfall Model (except with less undefined behaviour)
< 1764440113 799148 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I didn't realise at the time because The Waterfall Model hadn't been invented
< 1764440137 779570 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then later on I was experimenting with short Jelly programs to see which of them were Turing-complete
< 1764440183 637513 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and came up with "take the minimum row of this square array, then add the first element of that row to each element of the first row, the second element of that row to each element of the second row, etc."
< 1764440196 669452 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that is *also* The Waterfall Model (except with less, and different, undefined behaviour)
< 1764440211 317589 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so now I had seen the same language twice without intentionally creating it either time
< 1764440230 99701 :Yayimhere90!~Yayimhere@197.184.79.143 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Yayimhere
< 1764440233 542720 :Yayimhere90!~Yayimhere@197.184.79.143 PRIVMSG #esolangs :90!!!
< 1764440237 251790 :Yayimhere90!~Yayimhere@197.184.79.143 PRIVMSG #esolangs :epic esolang
< 1764440252 37902 :Yayimhere90!~Yayimhere@197.184.79.143 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry I got disconnected were you saying anything?
< 1764440268 518138 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, was talking aobut the discovery of The Waterfall Model
< 1764440284 572664 :Yayimhere90!~Yayimhere@197.184.79.143 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea ok
< 1764440289 706273 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2025-11-29.html#lXe
< 1764440301 100314 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.109.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1764440301 506665 :Yayimhere90!~Yayimhere@197.184.79.143 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh yea I forgot those existed
< 1764440323 299462 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I used to get disconnected a lot, so I used to use them a lot
< 1764440333 1002 :Yayimhere90!~Yayimhere@197.184.79.143 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but yea
< 1764440334 331981 :Yayimhere90!~Yayimhere@197.184.79.143 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cool!
< 1764440405 101185 :Yayimhere59!~Yayimhere@197.184.66.105 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1764440505 235253 :Yayimhere90!~Yayimhere@197.184.79.143 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyways, bye!
< 1764440510 927270 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :bye
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> 1764443847 704741 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169628&oldid=169617 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+311) 10/* Category:Register based */
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< 1764445757 220688 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :cu
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< 1764446137 136023 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: so I think "APL-like" is ambiguous because the late KEI put so many innovations into APL that it's not clear which one you're referring to. there are like ten different and somewhat overlapping things that you can be talking about just for syntax. there's that the language was intended to a large part as mathematical notation without computers first, and became a programming language later.
< 1764446143 143372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's that he managed to get high-school students access to an easily usable programming environment back when microcomputers didn't exist yet and computers existed mostly in universities – I'm pretty sure this one can no longer be replicated because microcomputers are here to stay. and then there's array programming, operating on whole arrays of multiple types, which helps both for optimization and
< 1764446149 201740 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :expressivity. there are a lot of array languages or libraries now, but I think there's still space for them to develop, I feel like we haven't reached the peak, and they're getting more and more relevant as computers improve.
< 1764446178 298542 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :weren't array languages historically fairly badly optimized?
< 1764446187 487325 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although some of the recent ones may work out better
< 1764446228 924894 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :things like Futhark seem to have been designed from an optimisation-first point of view
< 1764446311 261414 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere90: so KEI originally developped APL as pen and paper (or typewriter and paper) notation for mathematics, but later adapted it to programming, and for that he used Selectric teletypes in such a way that the symbols are composed from a small alphabet (maybe 80 glyphs) but many symbols are composed from two glyphs overstruck, which you input by pressing one glyph then pressing backspace then the
< 1764446317 277269 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :second glyph. this overstriking tech has existed before APL, but APL uses it to a higher degree.
> 1764447070 315897 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FFFF14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169629 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (+2203) 10create FFFF
> 1764447122 471563 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FFFF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169630&oldid=169629 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (-153) 10Fix info box
> 1764447184 279038 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FFFF/Implementation14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169631 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (+2831) 10Created page with "This is an implementation of [[FFFF]] in Python by [[User:RainbowDash]].
from fractions import Fraction import sys def reduce_pair(a, b=None): """Convert inputs to Fraction, optionally divide by b, return as [numerator, denominator].""" i
> 1764447208 871071 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FFFF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169632&oldid=169630 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (+25) 10
> 1764449560 779089 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tea14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169633&oldid=169574 5* 03Waffelz 5* (+23) 10
> 1764449748 159909 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169634&oldid=169446 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+69) 10/* Integers */
< 1764450919 507583 :chomwitt_alt!~alex@2a02:85f:9a5f:900:42b0:76ff:fe46:a5fd QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
> 1764451128 386832 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03RainbowDash 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Simplefsm.png10]]": Fsm diagram for [[FFFF]]
> 1764451275 195441 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FFFF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169636&oldid=169632 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (+285) 10FSM
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> 1764451558 420811 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RainbowDash14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169637&oldid=167029 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (+51) 10
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> 1764454846 791407 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169638&oldid=169540 5* 03Buckets 5* (+14) 10
> 1764454899 729175 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169639&oldid=169541 5* 03Buckets 5* (+15) 10
> 1764454915 105735 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ast*R***14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169640 5* 03Buckets 5* (+1884) 10Created page with "Ast*R*** Is An esoteric programming Language created By [[User:Buckets]] in 2023. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | # || This is A Wall. |- | S || This Is the Start Point. |- | E || This is the End point. |} It Will count the Four direction movem
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