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(Again?) 02:46:23 -!- waffelz_ has joined. 02:49:54 -!- waffelz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:11:18 -!- waffelz__ has joined. 03:14:42 -!- waffelz has joined. 03:14:43 -!- waffelz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:17:54 -!- waffelz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:18:59 -!- waffelz_ has joined. 03:23:09 -!- waffelz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:26:35 -!- waffelz__ has joined. 03:30:45 -!- waffelz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:37:40 -!- waffelz_ has joined. 03:41:45 -!- waffelz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:44:25 [[User talk:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169552&oldid=169545 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+169) /* issue with your proof of Tea's turing-completeness */ 03:57:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 04:05:17 [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169553&oldid=169508 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-19) /* Computational class */ delete the "caption text" since It was the only text. 04:25:51 -!- waffelz__ has joined. 04:30:14 -!- waffelz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:33:44 [[K+len(p)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169554 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1628) Created page with "{{Lowercase}} '''k+len(p)'''(pronounced kay-len) is a variant of [[|_]] created by [[User:Yayimhere]], simply to be closer to turing complete. it features the whole _ command set but one command, but the esolang is also with three extra commands == Command s 04:37:39 [[Yuontlitled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169555&oldid=169482 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+62) 04:40:28 [[Tea]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169556&oldid=169544 * Waffelz * (-11) 04:45:30 [[Yuontlitled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169557&oldid=169555 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+6) /* Operations */ 05:02:41 [[Yuontlitled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169558&oldid=169557 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+26) /* Operations */ 05:05:11 [[Tea]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169559&oldid=169556 * Waffelz * (+25) 05:05:24 [[Tea]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169560&oldid=169559 * Waffelz * (+1) 05:06:00 -!- waffelz_ has joined. 05:09:52 -!- waffelz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:12:19 [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169561&oldid=169172 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+401) /* Category:Golfing language should be moved to Category:Golfing languages */ 06:13:15 [[Tea]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169562&oldid=169560 * Waffelz * (-6) 06:16:14 [[Tea]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169563&oldid=169562 * Waffelz * (+43) 06:17:52 [[Yuontlitled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169564&oldid=169558 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+10) /* Examples */ 06:19:21 [[Tea]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169565&oldid=169563 * Waffelz * (-8) /* Errors */ 06:30:40 [[Yuontlitled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169566&oldid=169564 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+30) /* Operations */ 06:43:23 [[Tea]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169567&oldid=169565 * Waffelz * (+45) 06:50:51 [[Yuontlitled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169568&oldid=169566 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+106) /* Operations */ 07:04:18 [[Oxen]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169569&oldid=169504 * None1 * (+20) /* Interpreter in Python */ 07:05:35 -!- pool has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:07:26 -!- waffelz_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:41:50 [[Hexad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169570&oldid=169510 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+12) /* Commands */ 08:11:00 [[Tea]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169571&oldid=169567 * RainbowDash * (+740) Cyclic tag 08:13:52 [[Tea]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169572&oldid=169571 * RainbowDash * (+41) /* Cyclic Tag System */ 08:18:07 -!- tromp has joined. 08:19:20 [[Tea]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169573&oldid=169572 * RainbowDash * (+169) /* Cyclic Tag System */ 09:17:23 [[Tea]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169574&oldid=169573 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-9) /* Proof of Turing completeness */ Change to computational class 10:04:00 [[Push Pop Filter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169575 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+2395) Created page with "'''Push Pop Filter''' or '''PPF''' is an esolang devised by [[User:Yayimhere]], to be a good simple excursive to implement. == Memory == Push Pop Filter uses two stacks. One stack can be initialized, called the main stack, and another cannot. It also 10:07:46 [[Push Pop Filter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169576&oldid=169575 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+35) 10:08:17 [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169577&oldid=169488 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+22) /* esolangs */ 10:18:44 [[.chat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169578&oldid=169476 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-144) /* Computational class */ 10:33:21 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 10:40:14 -!- tromp has joined. 10:44:27 [[A Combinator Language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169579 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+586) Created page with "'''A Combinator Language''' or ACL is an esolang created by [[User:Yayimhere]], as a very minimal, and specifically NOT turing complete combinator calculus. Its name is also incredibly lazy, however still more creative than [[APL]]. == Combinator 10:44:29 [[Abstraction]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169580 * Timm * (+415) Created page with "one instruction has 4 bits but for making instructions 3 bits 4th bit is useless ">0<000" i show with this > i'm useless bit; 0;000 0000 00000100 set reg 0 to 4P.S. all instructions have reg 0;001 0000 00000100 set reg2 0 to 4 0;010 0;0;00 00000001 set acc 10:44:53 [[User:Timm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169581&oldid=169475 * Timm * (+23) 10:45:07 [[User:Timm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169582&oldid=169581 * Timm * (+4) 10:45:20 [[A Combinator Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169583&oldid=169579 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+46) /* Combinators/lambda expressions */ 10:45:31 [[A Combinator Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169584&oldid=169583 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-17) /* Combinators/lambda expressions */ 10:49:06 [[User:Timm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169585&oldid=169582 * Timm * (+7) 10:50:11 [[A Combinator Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169586&oldid=169584 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+13) /* Combinators/lambda expressions */ 10:51:25 [[A Combinator Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169587&oldid=169586 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+13) /* Combinators/lambda expressions */ 10:51:36 [[A Combinator Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169588&oldid=169587 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+0) /* Combinators/lambda expressions */ 11:01:16 [[Waves]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169589&oldid=168972 * Timm * (+104) 11:01:49 [[Waves]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169590&oldid=169589 * Timm * (-44) 11:04:47 [[4ByteJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169591&oldid=169473 * Timm * (+23) 11:18:33 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:20:07 Hi 11:45:25 -!- chomwitt_alt has joined. 12:00:48 [[User:Hammy/Lime]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169592 * Hammy * (+17) Created page with "[[File:Logo.png]]" 12:02:09 [[User:Hammy/Template:Limelimelime]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169593 * Hammy * (+1329) Created page with "
{{User:Hammy/Lime|S=300|X=0|Y=300|O=0.4|T=1.2|N=lime1}} {{User:Hammy/Lime|S=400|X=200|Y=100|O=0.35|T=1. 12:03:43 -!- fungot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:36:57 [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169594&oldid=169326 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+3116) trilime + scratch + haskell 13:48:55 -!- amby has joined. 14:02:42 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:15:11 -!- fungot has joined. 14:15:49 -!- tromp has joined. 14:23:51 [[Summary]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169595 * BestCoder * (+1390) Created page with "Summary is a list of numbers where the sum of consecutive numbers determines the command == Interpreter == def interpret(nums): stack = [] i = 0 while i < len(nums)-1: sum_ = nums[i]+nums[i+1] if sum_ == 1: if i+2 < len( 14:27:11 [[User talk:Waffelz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169596&oldid=169457 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+161) /* Tea */ 14:28:06 [[DQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169597&oldid=165041 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-39) 14:44:03 [[Needle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169598&oldid=169429 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+53) Replaced halt with unconditional jump which was used to simulate it and updated the example program 14:46:37 [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169599&oldid=165386 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+14) /* A */ Added Autopsy 14:51:15 [[Pointer-based Minsky machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169600&oldid=144813 * 47 * (-8) 14:52:37 [[Num Rect]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169601 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1521) Created page with "'''Num Rect''' is a variant/encoding of [[RECT4n=GLE]] that is 1 dimensional, and may be useful for reasoning about the language itself. It is a sort of run length encoding. == Encoding == Every program takes the form: ''symbol'' | ''symb 14:56:33 [[Num Rect]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169602&oldid=169601 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-64) /* Encoding */ 14:56:45 [[Num Rect]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169603&oldid=169602 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+7) /* Example/Translation */ 14:57:36 [[RECT4n=GLE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169604&oldid=169472 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-31) /* example programs */ 14:58:38 [[RECT4n=GLE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169605&oldid=169604 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+31) /* External resources */ 15:02:58 [[User:Esolangist/Chess]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169606&oldid=167439 * PrySigneToFry * (+585) 15:03:46 -!- Yayimhere has joined. 15:03:52 hello 15:04:35 [[User:Esolangist/Chess]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169607&oldid=169606 * PrySigneToFry * (+5) 15:12:03 [[StackBit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169608&oldid=164477 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+114) Added TC proof for reversible 15:23:29 [[User:Esolangist/Chess]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169609&oldid=169607 * * (+73) /* Proposals of PrySigneToFry */ 15:40:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:42:47 hello ais523 15:42:52 hi Yayimhere 15:42:59 [[User:Esolangist/Chess]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169610&oldid=169609 * Esolangist alt * (+6) Esolangist alt 15:44:28 [[User:Esolangist/Chess]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169611&oldid=169610 * Esolangist alt * (+104) Esolangist alt 15:44:31 how are you doing? 15:45:48 still sleeping at the wrong time of day, and having trouble changing it 15:45:53 other than that, OK 15:46:10 hope you at some point will be able to change it 15:46:23 [[User:Esolangist/Chess]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169612&oldid=169611 * Esolangist alt * (+94) Esolangist alt 15:48:06 hmm, I saw your ACL, and it got me thinking about APL again (in particular, what features a language needs to have to be considered an APL) 15:48:20 ais523: oh 15:48:23 hm 15:48:36 there's a marketing/recruitment person at one of the big APL companies who often advertises at esolangers due to thinking that they would be some of the best people to understand APL 15:48:52 who thinks that Jelly is an APL due to the array-processing and tacit nature of it 15:49:06 i marked it as APL-like since the symbols, and functions I guess 15:49:10 but I'm wondering how far you can stray from that formula before the language stops being an APL 15:49:14 but thats propably not enough 15:49:26 it's APL-resembling in syntax 15:49:34 yea 15:49:46 and APL does have the "concatenation = composition" rule, at least sometimes 15:49:53 hmm, does this meant that APL Is a concatenative language? 15:50:02 what a question 15:52:46 but not one for me to answer, as I do not have much experience with concatenative languages 15:52:55 [[Rune]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169613 * Timm * (+719) Created page with " another name of this esolang xu /xu/ do print top of stack xo invert value 0 - 255 ho start the program xa push to stack in this way {| class="wikitable" |+ numbersorder is small...big numbers |- ! rune 15:53:36 [[User:Timm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169614&oldid=169585 * Timm * (+17) 15:53:43 to me it's an awkward question to answer because concatenativeness is really a property of syntax, and the syntax of languages like APL and Jelly isn't quite concatenative over small scales but is over larger scales 15:54:10 hm 15:55:24 e.g. in Jelly, Ḥ+ is λ(x,y).2x+y, 3 calculates 3, and Ḥ+3 calculates λx.2x+3 or λ(x,y).2x+3 15:55:27 also, ais523, how did you happen to stumble upon ACL? 15:55:48 mostly looking for rules-breaking edits but sometimes i find interesting non-rules-breaking edits instead 15:55:57 lol 15:55:59 yea makes sense 15:56:07 or people asking for admin help 15:56:09 what did you think of it btw? 15:56:33 [[Summary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169615&oldid=169595 * BestCoder * (+53) /* Interpreter */ 15:56:36 I didn't really evaluate the set of combinators 15:56:41 makes sense 15:56:58 actually, composition in that language is application, not concatenation 15:57:00 it was a language created to be the across in Along and Across 15:57:46 which is quite a speciifc difference from at least Jelly (I'm not sure how you do function application in APL or if it even has higher-order functions) 15:58:03 [[Summary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169616&oldid=169615 * BestCoder * (+2002) 15:58:10 or, well, I know how to apply a function to an array, just not how to apply it to another function 16:00:02 i dont know if I should try and learn APL 16:00:37 I think it has operators that can apply to functions/data and produce new functions, but it's more explicitly second-order I think(?) 16:00:54 at least extrapolating from what I know about J, but my APL-family knowledge is.. a bit rusty 16:02:07 [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169617&oldid=169561 * Ais523 * (+841) /* Category:Register based */ some thoughts 16:03:15 Yayimhere: I think the idea of array programming is worth learning, but APL may be a bad language to learn it from, it has a lot of other unfamiliar features which aren't inherently linked to the basic concept and will be distractions 16:03:35 ais523: hm 16:05:47 there is a domain-specific language I was working on (not an esolang) which wasn't originally an array programming language, but then I realised that it would be much easier to understand (and possibly implement) if I redesigned it as an array programming language 16:06:19 oh cool 16:06:29 what was the domain? 16:06:49 SIMD programming 16:07:06 modern compilers often try to SIMDify code, but often aren't very good at it 16:07:46 they start with a non-SIMD version of the program and try to recompile it as SIMD but things often go wrong (either due to the compiler coming up with an unnecessarily complex solution or due to it being unable to prove that the optimisation is correct) 16:07:46 hm 16:08:24 so my approach was to design a language which only supported operations that were guaranteed to SIMDify correctly, with the intention of using to write the inner loops in programs that wanted to have SIMD inner loops 16:08:37 oh, cool 16:08:50 (this also has the theoretical advantage that it should port to GPUs pretty easily) 16:10:11 the particular problem that caused the issue for me is that I wanted to SIMDify an algorithm that had a widening multiply in it 16:10:19 current compilers are able to do that, but they do it very inefficiently 16:11:23 let's use the example of "widening-multiply two values and add the halves together", and use letters to represent different array elements 16:12:45 the compilers are doing abcdefgh × jklmnopq = AJBKCLDM, ENFOGPHQ where, e.g., AJ is the doubly-wide version of A×J 16:12:57 hm 16:13:13 but it would be much more efficient to multiply them as AJCLENGP, BKDMFOHQ 16:13:26 because then the values don't have to move around as much within the register 16:13:38 all the values end up close to where they originally came from 16:14:06 most modern processors only have one vector shuffler, so they can only move around values within one SIMD register at a time 16:14:30 and so vector shuffling becomes a huge bottleneck if you implement it the compiler's way 16:14:39 yea 16:16:19 ais523: That's definitely an APLish perspective. 16:16:31 korvo: what are you referring to with "that"? 16:16:33 We've got another chess game at [[user:esolangist/chess]]. 16:16:47 korvo: is that good or bad? 16:16:54 ais523: Like, ^^^^. The whole idea of a SIMD-oriented language with that sort of vectorized-first thinkin. 16:17:03 korvo: oh yes, it's definitely an array programming language 16:17:13 Yayimhere: It's not allowed. If people want to play chess then they can go to one of the big public chess servers. 16:17:15 but it took me a while to notice, and adapt the syntax to match 16:17:18 because I was thinking too operationally 16:17:28 korvo: yea ok I would have guessed 16:17:40 Yayimhere: the risk is that Esolang ends up being classified as a social media site, in which case it would get banned in several countries and nobody wants that 16:17:57 ais523: in fact 16:18:06 (either banned, or under so many regulations that we wouldn't be able to comply with it and then it would effectively be banned) 16:18:35 [[Onecommand]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169618 * Esolangist alt * (+772) Esolangist alt 16:20:09 [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169619 * Timm * (+366) Created page with "not [[]] :]:) var value arguments code list id parentheses ...} are number x ...} are number x*10 function code name has loop is code is null var change invert sign of number if a to b A code is == is => is =! is !> is output is i 16:20:27 [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169620&oldid=169619 * Timm * (-1) 16:20:55 [[User:Timm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169621&oldid=169614 * Timm * (+8) 16:21:06 [[User:Timm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169622&oldid=169621 * Timm * (+1) 16:21:21 ais523: to go back on "topic" did you ever complete the language? 16:22:08 no – I ran into problems trying to implement the parser, and I was working on a parser generator separately at the time 16:22:15 so I decided to prioritise work on the parser generator instead 16:22:39 ais523: oh 16:22:40 well 16:39:59 also, korvo, since your here, you've gotten me to interpret my languages more 16:40:01 so thanks 16:41:13 Yayimhere: Glad to hear that. FWIW I went ahead and made an expression language and parser for Vixen: https://bpa.st/TCLA 16:41:31 korvo: oh, cool! 16:42:05 It's a pretty small language! Not every Smalltalk descendant literally fits on a card, but this one does. 16:46:16 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:51:08 [[User:Esolangist/Chess]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169623&oldid=169612 * * (+139) If you wanna start, then add your move. If you don't wanna play, you can remove my board. 16:53:42 [[User:Hammy/Template:Whoops2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169624 * Esolangist alt * (+416) Esolangist alt 17:07:21 [[User talk:Esolangist/Chess]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169625 * Corbin * (+183) Created page with "Hi! This page may be deleted. In general, the wiki isn't a social-media site and we don't host gaming. ~~~~" 17:17:28 -!- pool has joined. 17:32:55 [[User:Hammy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169626&oldid=168155 * Esolangist alt * (+405) Esolangist alt 17:37:07 [[User:Esolangist/Chess]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169627&oldid=169623 * Esolangist alt * (-1837) Esolangist alt 17:38:03 Well, that was dramatic. While it was effective, I'm not sure that such a heavy-handed intervention was appropriate; I could have been more polite. 17:38:31 do we have stated rules on the wiki about this? 17:39:07 i guess 17:39:16 "Articles should be on the subject of esoteric programming languages, or about subjects relevant to these, for example computation theory." is that 17:39:16 Yayimhere: no; I've been meaning to write some for a while but would need to be very careful to get them right 17:39:27 ais523: hm 17:39:32 and there are limits to how much time I can spend on the wiki 17:39:37 in fact 17:39:41 Not yet. I can write something up. It is existentially important that the wiki not be considered social media, but so far we haven't needed to point at the rules. 17:39:53 yes 17:42:30 I am possibly too forgiving as a moderator (which can make me seem unfair sometimes – because if I don't shut down rulebreaking straight away it looks more arbitrary when I shut it down later) 17:42:49 maybe 17:44:19 Hopefully this isnt off topic, but how did the APL creators come up with so many symbols 17:47:09 it's old enough that it wasn't obvious that this was a bad way to do things 17:47:21 wow 17:47:31 I would love to hear thee process of making each symbol 17:47:32 nowdays we have standardised character sets that we know that most people can type 17:47:38 yea 17:47:44 also, 17:47:58 how was APL's alphabet added to unicode? 17:48:01 but at the time there weren't really standards 17:48:08 yea 17:48:33 Unicode aims to support all existing character codings at the time it was created, at least some files existed that were written in APL characters, so Unicode added them 17:49:04 oh wow 17:49:22 the same thing is what lead to emoji – there was some obscure Japanese text messaging format which decided to add emoji at otherwise unused codepoints 17:49:38 and Unicode added them too, so it could represent the old text messages, and ended up popularising them 17:49:49 Who invented unicode 17:49:52 actually 17:49:57 who's that dedicated 17:50:53 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode#History 17:51:02 I seem to remember the early history of Unicode was really complicated 17:51:22 partly because companies started getting involved and that always makes things more complicated, partly because they underestimated how many codepoints they would need 17:51:45 yes 17:53:17 there's a quote on Wikipedia about saying that they were sure that there would be less than 16384 characters to cover, but it turns out that Chinese/Japanese/Korean covered over 20,000 even if you considered similar-looking characters in different languages to be the same 17:53:37 "APL creators" — wasn't it all just Iverson 17:53:38 Yayimhere: AIUI there are still some APL symbols that aren't in Unicode. Unicode's main goal is to include the tools of natlangs, and APL's not actually part of that mission. Other examples of orthographies not in Unicode include Klingon and Solresol. 17:53:59 korvo: ah ok 17:54:15 strerror: I would guess theres more but I have no real idea 17:55:02 korvo: it wouldn't surprise me if Unicode's goals have become fuzzier over time 17:55:39 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:55:46 ais523: You can always give me admin tools. You can ask me to stick to an articles-for-deletion process and only delete articles that everybody has agreed should be deleted. I honestly admire your good judgement in not trusting me with that. 17:55:52 * korvo just a little Iago 17:56:06 And in fact the notation came first, before computers became available to implement it on 17:56:34 strerror: wow 17:56:40 I'm actually not sure I've ever made anyone an admin 17:56:47 I think I'm technically capable of doing so, but have never needed to check 17:57:06 because there have always been (and still are) higher-ranking admins, so normally they would do it instead 17:57:09 (Similar to when McCarthy invented Lisp, it was initially notation) 17:57:11 ("most active" ≠ "highest ranking") 17:57:32 -!- tromp has joined. 18:03:29 Wikipedia: “In 1963, Falkoff, Iverson, and Edward H. Sussenguth Jr., all working at IBM, used the notation for a formal description of the IBM System/360 series machine ...” — perhaps multiple people were needed to turn APL into an executable language 18:05:54 Oh, I didn't actually say it last time. Yayimhere, most languages start as blackboard notation for programmers collaborating together. First as small expressions, then one-liners, then multi-line programs with some sort of stored procedure or routine. 18:06:15 korvo: oh, thats pretty cool! 18:06:24 Relevant Perlis quotes: "Over the centuries the Indians developed sign language for communicating phenomena of interest. Programmers from different tribes (FORTRAN, LISP, ALGOL, SNOBOL, etc.) could use one that doesn't require them to carry a blackboard on their ponies." 18:06:58 "It is not a language's weakness but its strengths that control the gradient of its change: Alas, a language never escapes its embryonic sac." Both from the standard quote page: https://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html 18:07:47 ais523: what would a language need to express that example with the SIMD vector shuffle? I guess you'd like a compiler to figure out the layout that is cheapest on the target processor, but that sounds even harder than what current auto-vectorizers already have to do with a known layout (and IME with AVX2, they often don't generate efficient instruction sequences) 18:08:45 strerror: I think this is possible just as a compiler optimisation, you basically just look at the addresses that are being read and written and do the even element / odd element split when working with values that are wider than the spacing between addresses 18:09:09 korvo: I think this is historically true but less common nowadays 18:09:35 languages like Go and Swift were intentionally created from scratch to solve particular problems the companies creating them had 18:09:42 rather than evolving 18:11:27 ais523: I think that it's morally close enough when we think about how we want to turn traditional expressions of engineering into computerized expressions. I might suggest that FORTH is a fundamentally different approach to growing a language, tied to its interpreter and interactive session rather than a blackboard. 18:11:51 there are so many ways that programming languages get created 18:12:02 especially with the simple computational models, they're often more discovered than engineered 18:12:10 (e.g. The Waterfall Model and Genera Tag) 18:12:22 yea 18:12:37 what does discovered rlly imply? 18:12:45 like what does it mean to discover a language? 18:13:06 well, when you're programming you have various mental representations of the steps you're going through 18:13:15 which don't necessarily exactly match the language you're usign 18:13:15 ais523: yes that would work for widening operations. I thought you were using it as an example of something more general 18:13:26 ais523: true 18:13:28 so that's one way to discover a langauge 18:14:00 is another way perhaps "oh thats an obvious way to simplify [other thing]"? 18:14:07 strerror: there might be a generalisation but if so I don't know what it is (other than the trivial generalisation to narrowing operations in which you represent the narrowed value using the full width of the original rather than trying to compress) 18:14:16 Yayimhere: yes, I think so 18:14:25 or not even obvious, just something I was messing around with 18:14:44 -!- Yayimhere59 has joined. 18:14:44 like, when I was looking into making INTERCAL Turing-complete without using expressions other than the constant #1 18:14:58 oh wow 18:15:06 the language I ended up with was The Waterfall Model (except with less undefined behaviour) 18:15:13 but I didn't realise at the time because The Waterfall Model hadn't been invented 18:15:37 then later on I was experimenting with short Jelly programs to see which of them were Turing-complete 18:16:23 and came up with "take the minimum row of this square array, then add the first element of that row to each element of the first row, the second element of that row to each element of the second row, etc." 18:16:36 that is *also* The Waterfall Model (except with less, and different, undefined behaviour) 18:16:51 so now I had seen the same language twice without intentionally creating it either time 18:17:10 -!- Yayimhere90 has joined. 18:17:13 90!!! 18:17:17 epic esolang 18:17:32 sorry I got disconnected were you saying anything? 18:17:48 yes, was talking aobut the discovery of The Waterfall Model 18:18:04 yea ok 18:18:09 https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2025-11-29.html#lXe 18:18:21 -!- Yayimhere has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:18:21 oh yea I forgot those existed 18:18:43 I used to get disconnected a lot, so I used to use them a lot 18:18:53 but yea 18:18:54 cool! 18:20:05 -!- Yayimhere59 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:21:45 anyways, bye! 18:21:50 bye 18:21:59 -!- Yayimhere90 has quit (Client Quit). 18:26:42 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 19:02:48 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed). 19:14:27 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:17:27 [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169628&oldid=169617 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+311) /* Category:Register based */ 19:18:25 -!- tromp has joined. 19:29:15 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:49:17 cu 19:49:34 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 19:52:56 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:55:37 ais523: so I think "APL-like" is ambiguous because the late KEI put so many innovations into APL that it's not clear which one you're referring to. there are like ten different and somewhat overlapping things that you can be talking about just for syntax. there's that the language was intended to a large part as mathematical notation without computers first, and became a programming language later. 19:55:43 there's that he managed to get high-school students access to an easily usable programming environment back when microcomputers didn't exist yet and computers existed mostly in universities – I'm pretty sure this one can no longer be replicated because microcomputers are here to stay. and then there's array programming, operating on whole arrays of multiple types, which helps both for optimization and 19:55:49 expressivity. there are a lot of array languages or libraries now, but I think there's still space for them to develop, I feel like we haven't reached the peak, and they're getting more and more relevant as computers improve. 19:56:18 weren't array languages historically fairly badly optimized? 19:56:27 although some of the recent ones may work out better 19:57:08 things like Futhark seem to have been designed from an optimisation-first point of view 19:58:31 Yayimhere90: so KEI originally developped APL as pen and paper (or typewriter and paper) notation for mathematics, but later adapted it to programming, and for that he used Selectric teletypes in such a way that the symbols are composed from a small alphabet (maybe 80 glyphs) but many symbols are composed from two glyphs overstruck, which you input by pressing one glyph then pressing backspace then the 19:58:37 second glyph. this overstriking tech has existed before APL, but APL uses it to a higher degree. 20:11:10 [[FFFF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169629 * RainbowDash * (+2203) create FFFF 20:12:02 [[FFFF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169630&oldid=169629 * RainbowDash * (-153) Fix info box 20:13:04 [[FFFF/Implementation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169631 * RainbowDash * (+2831) Created page with "This is an implementation of [[FFFF]] in Python by [[User:RainbowDash]]. 
 from fractions import Fraction import sys  def reduce_pair(a, b=None):     """Convert inputs to Fraction, optionally divide by b, return as [numerator, denominator]."""     i
20:13:28  [[FFFF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169632&oldid=169630 * RainbowDash * (+25) 
20:52:40  [[Tea]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169633&oldid=169574 * Waffelz * (+23) 
20:55:48  [[ASTLang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169634&oldid=169446 * NTMDev * (+69) /* Integers */
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21:18:48  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * RainbowDash *  uploaded "[[File:Simplefsm.png]]": Fsm diagram for [[FFFF]]
21:21:15  [[FFFF]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169636&oldid=169632 * RainbowDash * (+285) FSM
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22:20:46  [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169638&oldid=169540 * Buckets * (+14) 
22:21:39  [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169639&oldid=169541 * Buckets * (+15) 
22:21:55  [[Ast*R***]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169640 * Buckets * (+1884) Created page with "Ast*R*** Is An esoteric programming Language created By [[User:Buckets]] in 2023.  {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | # || This is A Wall. |- | S || This Is the Start Point. |- | E || This is the End point. |} It Will count the Four direction movem
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