> 1764549664 652679 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Four-player-chess14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169694&oldid=169675 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (-37) 10
> 1764549683 400906 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Four-player-chess14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169695&oldid=169694 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (-22) 10
> 1764549751 73955 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Four-player-chess14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169696&oldid=169695 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+54) 10
> 1764549769 853153 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Four-player-chess14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169697&oldid=169696 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+22) 10
< 1764549776 858991 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1764549994 816945 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a JOIN #esolangs fungot :fungot-0.1
< 1764550738 401967 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1764552989 848757 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-154-63.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1764554521 895409 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nope.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169698&oldid=163972 5* 03Kleberlucas 5* (+133) 10added zig 0.15 implementation
> 1764555405 387826 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nein.14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169699 5* 03Kleberlucas 5* (+245) 10Created page with "'''Nein.''' works just like [[Nope.]], but instead of printing <code>Nope.</code>, it prints <code>Nein.</code> . I wonder if somebody will ever make an implementation for this esolang. Note: made by [[User:Kleberlucas]].  [[Category:Languages]]"
> 1764555526 475979 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nein.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169700&oldid=169699 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+161) 10
< 1764555667 136327 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1764555957 978605 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1764556028 298293 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1764556048 626487 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1764556321 285033 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1764556683 857928 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38
< 1764558281 677803 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1764558299 763001 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse
> 1764559554 763726 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FFFF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169701&oldid=169649 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (+0) 10/* Example FSM encoding. */
< 1764560058 976060 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1764560083 953577 :svm!~msv@user/msv JOIN #esolangs msv :msv
< 1764560155 709349 :chloetax9!~chloe@user/chloetax JOIN #esolangs chloetax :chloe
< 1764560161 639772 :Trigon!~Trigon@c-24-11-80-95.hsd1.ut.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1764560197 144735 :nitrix_!~nitrix@user/meow/nitrix JOIN #esolangs nitrix :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1764560205 493010 :chloetax!~chloe@user/chloetax QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1764560205 672382 :chloetax9!~chloe@user/chloetax NICK :chloetax
< 1764560214 805276 :Trigon!~Trigon@2601:680:cd00:717f::2000 JOIN #esolangs * :https://codetriangle.me
< 1764560233 617523 :msv!~msv@user/msv QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1764560233 784945 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1764560233 812596 :yc!~yc@user/youngchief QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1764560233 840885 :nitrix!~nitrix@user/meow/nitrix QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1764560235 514408 :avih_!~quassel@23.94.231.119 JOIN #esolangs avih :avih
< 1764560269 580867 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1764560269 700958 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/bowserinator QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1764560269 730866 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1764560303 625101 :nitrix_!~nitrix@user/meow/nitrix NICK :nitrix
< 1764560311 204018 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu JOIN #esolangs * :b_jonas
< 1764560398 395660 :chloetax7!~chloe@user/chloetax JOIN #esolangs chloetax :chloe
< 1764560521 595333 :chloetax!~chloe@user/chloetax QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1764560522 262179 :chloetax7!~chloe@user/chloetax NICK :chloetax
< 1764560597 524336 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/bowserinator JOIN #esolangs Bowserinator :No VPS :(
< 1764561524 403362 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1764562770 736148 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
> 1764565906 247293 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Four-player-chess14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169702&oldid=169697 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+901) 10Maybe I must put the notice here.
< 1764566116 846109 :pool54!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan NICK :pool
> 1764566347 620901 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169703&oldid=168259 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+2059) 10
> 1764566448 661279 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169704&oldid=169703 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+48) 10
< 1764567592 319652 :chomwitt_alt!~alex@2a02:85f:9a5f:900:42b0:76ff:fe46:a5fd JOIN #esolangs chomwitt :realname
< 1764574310 414986 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:9c00:2cdd:fe3f:e613 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1764575835 771371 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02NAME EXPUNGED10]]": inappropriate content
< 1764575876 445066 :svm!~msv@user/msv QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1764575881 385946 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Fuck 2red10]]": author request, no useful content
> 1764575881 424718 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Talk:Fuck 2red10]]": Deleted together with the associated page with reason: author request, no useful content
< 1764575946 875045 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: I think I've heard the name "translation database" before but am not sure how good a fit it is
< 1764575961 52259 :msv!~msv@user/msv JOIN #esolangs msv :msv
< 1764575976 597645 :msv!~msv@user/msv QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1764576000 966894 :msv!~msv@user/msv JOIN #esolangs msv :msv
< 1764576326 101032 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Yayimhere
< 1764576335 902405 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hello
< 1764576472 324647 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi Yayimhere
< 1764576498 422907 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I landed an interview on Esoteric.codes yesterday
< 1764576505 358116 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is great
< 1764576547 216669 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1764576560 548002 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse
< 1764576580 997599 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, looks like it hasn't been posted yet
< 1764576588 298147 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1764576589 96055 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it's interesting to see a range of different perspectives
< 1764576589 501374 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764576595 305755 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yea
< 1764576598 274136 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I will look forward to it
< 1764576614 538486 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we haven't actually done it yet, because Daniel just got done with his book
< 1764576620 864667 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Thanks!
< 1764577009 3672 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've been busy with other things for a while (and am still a bit busy) so I haven't got much esolanging done
< 1764577134 489941 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh well, thats ok
< 1764577147 209038 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I should propably slow down
< 1764577159 21825 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :on the esolanging, and speed up on other things
< 1764577471 485941 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:9c00:2cdd:fe3f:e613 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1764577555 950120 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm
< 1764577602 167570 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`(np)/q == p/(qn)` if and only If n = 1 or -1
< 1764577603 680615 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmmm
< 1764577604 709933 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​(np)/q? No such file or directory
< 1764577608 379203 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1764577618 368785 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that could be interesting as a conditional
< 1764577670 11223 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe a Fractran style list of fractions
< 1764577686 800381 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :where `n=(np)/q` if and only if `(np)/q == p/(qn)`
< 1764577711 270620 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this simplifies to n/x == x/n or if you have constants, n == 1/n
< 1764577722 608173 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :true
< 1764577728 754042 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm
< 1764577743 302833 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it rearranges to n*n == 1
< 1764577750 620286 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764577752 181577 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(which then means it works with integer arithmetic)
< 1764577761 670928 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(which is epic)
< 1764577782 489249 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well then it would be `n=(np)/q` if `n*n == 1`
< 1764577798 770623 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the normal situation where this sort of thing is useful is when you don't have control flow available at all and are just trying to simulate it using unconditional calculations on variables
< 1764577811 879050 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764577837 413032 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1764577843 710608 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :languages like https://esolangs.org/wiki/Blindfolded_Arithmetic or ELEMENTARY (which isn't documented on the wiki yet, I need to get round to it)
< 1764577852 836743 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764577885 306784 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`n=(np)/q if n*n == 1 else p/q=n`
< 1764577886 781477 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :n=(np)/q? No such file or directory
< 1764577899 315194 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :as in solve for `p/q=n` for both `p & q`
< 1764578167 763484 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :now I'm busy reading up on ELEMENTARY to see if I can document it
< 1764578184 330520 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Wikipedia used to have some amount of description on it as a language but it seems to have been deleted, possibly due to lack of sources
< 1764578205 100118 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1764578208 679898 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's sort-of like Blindfolded Arithmetic but with more operators and without the loop (so it's sub-Turing-complete, but pretty powerful)
< 1764578637 705388 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:9c00:2cdd:fe3f:e613 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1764578923 299450 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1764579314 136116 :avih_!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: btw, i mentioned few times that https://github.com/rdebath/Brainfuck has better optimizations than any other bf compiler/interpreter i saw, but i looked at the code, and as far as i can tell it has a big list of "canned" patterns it tries to identify and address, so not as generic as i hoped it would be. still very good though
< 1764579321 171156 :avih_!~quassel@23.94.231.119 NICK :avih
< 1764579380 227541 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(judging by the function names. i didn't try to actually follow the code)
< 1764579946 123694 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :optimisers often do that sort of thing
< 1764579953 824785 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but yes, a bit disappointing
< 1764580096 167044 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm
< 1764580164 85451 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: is your optimizer on the more generic side?
< 1764580187 4095 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(i know it's not bf, but still)
< 1764580188 439472 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the one I was working on but ended up abandoning was more generic
< 1764580195 985737 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm
< 1764580207 992222 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the one for The Waterfall Model is only identifying one pattern but it's a very general one
< 1764580225 44466 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, that's what i hope to do with bf too
< 1764580242 300920 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with the one pattern being "counter loop"
< 1764580333 862171 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it's the best name i got for it, but i've not seen this name elsewhere. typically it's called balanced loops or some such, but it's more specific than that because the main characteristic is that there's one cell which is being decreased by 1 on each iteration, making it a counter)
< 1764580489 31082 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and obviously the loop ends when this cell is zero)
< 1764584395 100721 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Yayimhere
< 1764585113 171970 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1764585129 669083 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just realized I had accidentally said that `n=np`
< 1764585132 23383 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well
< 1764585136 609953 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :teextually I had
> 1764585952 801739 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 03JIT 5*  10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:Nothing-suspicious.png10]]": definitely did NOT make 2 errors in this thing and had to correct them, unrelated note: steganographic code is REALLY hard to code!
< 1764585979 120933 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1764586107 100702 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Yayimhere
< 1764586751 415388 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi
< 1764586771 658346 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi APic!
< 1764586781 469880 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Heya Yayimhere     😌
> 1764587460 716450 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169706&oldid=168264 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+152) 10/* SletScript */
> 1764587470 395089 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Exoshell14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169707 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+45750) 10A two-symbol loop-based language where program form (such as nested loops) encodes no additional functionality.
> 1764588017 733949 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Countertrue14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169708 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+3244) 10A simple counter-based language with deterministic, cyclic execution.
> 1764588108 580972 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Keymaker14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169709&oldid=148473 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+159) 10Added the new languages.
< 1764588240 861854 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wow, key maker goin at it
< 1764588905 751081 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it may take me a while to read this
< 1764588907 151948 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I want to
< 1764588925 513373 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: it does in fact seem interesting
< 1764588956 398206 :strerror!~strerror@user/strerror PRIVMSG #esolangs :“nested loops encode no additional functionality” seems like an unintuitive way to describe a language where nested loops encode all functionality
< 1764588981 599944 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh, Countertrue is like a backwards version of The Waterfall Model
< 1764588988 274507 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1764589000 554066 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :strerror: it is
< 1764589010 691236 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :instead of the zeroing triggers running when the counter is zero, they run when the counter *isn't* zero
< 1764589023 334628 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :true
< 1764589064 656092 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's interesting that this works despite the triggers containing only +1/0/-1 as values
< 1764589071 130440 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not surprised that that's true, but it isn't totally obvious
> 1764589127 872357 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169710&oldid=160864 5* 03Ais523 5* (+18) 10/* See also */ Countertrue is basically the opposite of The Waterfall Model (the triggers run when the counter isn't 0 rather than when it is 0) and so almost certainly is worth linking here
> 1764589306 67268 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Ytyeytyd98e88498 5*  10New user account
< 1764589316 382690 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what a name
< 1764589397 858703 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm
< 1764589418 740773 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wonder if mayhaps Unlambda is turing complete with `c` and `d` and `s`
< 1764589424 719613 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :andnandand
< 1764589426 727879 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 PRIVMSG #esolangs :NAND!
< 1764590133 448124 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh right, if you want to change a counter by more than 1 in Countertrue you can just use duplicate counters in order to get twice as many triggers
< 1764590176 165528 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this would work in The Waterfall Model too, if simultaneous zeroing were defined as running both triggers rather than undefined behaviour (but the "run both triggers" behaviour is often hard to implement and not very natural for the language)
< 1764590217 101242 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@160.119.235.55 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
> 1764590902 732447 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07$$Aleph 0x1111111100000001.png14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169711&oldid=165582 5* 03JIT 5* (+32) 10
< 1764591259 727984 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:9c00:2cdd:fe3f:e613 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1764592693 498472 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:9c00:2cdd:fe3f:e613 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1764593353 438654 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry about my connection
< 1764597770 1798 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1764598457 886015 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-154-63.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
< 1764599294 708415 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :random thought: is running a sequence of iconv commands in a loop Turing-complete? it feels like character encodings are complex enough that surely some of them must have the ability to do computation when misinterpreted as other character encodings
< 1764599332 575617 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :iconv + tr probably is, iconv on its own suffers from maybe not being able to map characters the way you'd want to map them
> 1764599893 861255 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Exoshell14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169712&oldid=169707 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+392) 10/* Program and execution */
< 1764600301 695151 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1764600321 232681 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :`olist 1336
< 1764600323 473681 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1336.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo boily nortti b_jonas Noisytoot
< 1764602429 260136 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:9c00:2cdd:fe3f:e613 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1764602762 466531 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:9c00:2cdd:fe3f:e613 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1764602993 151050 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: There's a relevant Perlis: "Programmers are not to be measured by their ingenuity and their logic but by the completeness of their case analysis." Same deal with compiler idioms.
< 1764603006 482905 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, wait, there's another: "Get into a rut early: Do the same process the same way. Accumulate idioms. Standardize. The only difference(!) between Shakespeare and you was the size of his idiom list - not the size of his vocabulary."
< 1764603193 470935 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean, it's not common to find folks who know what "dun" means (it means dull, waxy, pale, untanned); Shakespeare's vocabulary was daunting. But it also was typical for the time among learned people; plenty of folks could understand and appreciate his writing.
< 1764603314 438802 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Shakespeare just invented new words when necessary, though
< 1764603330 375683 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so some of them wouldn't have been known by the audience at the time (but they could probably work them out(
< 1764603529 110212 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure. The legend is that he aggressively borrowed words; the audience would have known "bandit" from Italian, for example, or "uncomfortable" from the standard Germanic un- prefix attached to "comfortable". What's more interesting to me are the noun phrases like "cold-blooded".
< 1764603545 349520 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The legend is also that he came up with words like "bump" and "swag", but that beggars belief.
< 1764603657 956235 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is one luxury we don't have in programming, we can't just invent a word without defining it, or the computer won't understand it
> 1764603849 994485 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Square-complete14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169713 5* 03 5* (+139) 10Created page with "So a Turing-complete language can be non-Square-complete? ~~~~"
> 1764603906 846400 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Square-complete14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169714&oldid=169713 5* 03Corbin 5* (+210) 10Yes, but.
< 1764605047 451895 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Still thinking about that. Mostly to see the details of the analogy. Invented words aren't automatically understood; we have a couple different layers of analysis (memetic, phonetic, whatever Werniecke's area does, acoustic) that go into word recognition, and each of those layers is independently trained.
< 1764605092 142695 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I'm somewhat sensitive to this because I have auditory processing issues; I *can't* recognize new words easily. I need to hear the phoenetics multiple times, I have no idea how to spell them, and I don't know what words might mean in context.)
< 1764605133 763660 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :On the other side, computers don't understand anything. We do have a notion of opcodes, ISA, and executable text; but there's no sense in which the computer refuses to understand unknown opcodes. It has a full specification of how those behave: they don't!
< 1764605159 101350 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@72.red-88-1-117.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] DOS_User_webchat
< 1764605171 30855 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@72.red-88-1-117.dynamicip.rima-tde.net CHGHOST ~DOS_User_ :user/DOS-User:11249
< 1764605184 151800 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And if we subscribe to the theory that all machines are weird then the computer's understanding is irrelevant; what matters is that *we* divide the opcodes into the worlds of "understandable" and "weird" based on whether *we* understand the effects of those codes.
< 1764605536 658347 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :<ais523> this is one luxury we don't have in programming, we can't just invent a word without defining it, or the computer won't understand it
< 1764605561 670199 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im a human and very often i need words i dont know to be defined tbh
< 1764605585 800250 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(chatlogs are useful for replying to past messages lol)
< 1764605595 398178 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we do that all the time in this channel
< 1764605657 763959 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764605669 587336 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thats the good thing of having them public :)
> 1764605740 272618 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Q!?14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169715 5* 03 5* (+950) 10Created page with "'''Q!?''' is a 2D [[Turing tarpit]] made by [[User:]]. {| class="wikitable" |+ Commands |- ! Command !! What it does |- | ^ || Moves execution up. |- | v || Moves execution down. |- | < || Moves execution to the left. |- | > || Moves execution to the right. |- | g || Goes back the 
> 1764605755 850094 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Q!?14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169716&oldid=169715 5* 03 5* (-6) 10/* Turing completeness */
< 1764605832 498605 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: :)
> 1764605834 752263 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Turing tarpit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169717&oldid=169353 5* 03 5* (+38) 10/* Survey */
< 1764605953 491390 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1764606031 746494 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Turing tarpit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169718&oldid=169717 5* 03Corbin 5* (-38) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/169717|169717]] by [[Special:Contributions/|]] ([[User talk:|talk]]): Too large to be a tarpit. Also, please don't add stuff to this list until it's proven TC and implemented; it's already too big and I'm still trying to pare it down.
< 1764606562 420709 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, I wonder whether Esimpl is a Turing tarpit
< 1764606579 420328 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hm. I double-checked [[Turing tarpit]]'s history, and found something I never quite answered. *Why* did the study of Turing tarpits decline? What happened in the mid-60s to completely change people's opinions about the worthiness of minimal machines?
< 1764606597 100047 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Yayimhere
< 1764606607 135384 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think they were hoping it would give some fundamental insight, then decided it wouldn't – but I don't know anything more beyond that
< 1764606650 939653 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've been studying Turing tarpits possibly more than anyone else, and the insights have been interesting but probably not what the computer scientists of the day were hoping for
< 1764606660 20932 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's two obvious candidates in the history. The first one is the development of ALGOL. I don't understand exactly how this could have catalyzed a change in research, but maybe it sucked the air out of other ventures.
< 1764606731 663854 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The second one, which is more compelling to me, is the development of MOSFET techniques for integrated circuits. WP says that MOSFETs outpaced older techniques in 1964, and that's also the year that the first commercial product based on the tech came out: https://www.computerhistory.org/siliconengine/first-commercial-mos-ic-introduced/
< 1764606765 788645 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi!
< 1764606786 476045 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, so your theory is along the lines of "computers got powerful enough for higher-level languages to become more obviously useful, and that made lower-level languages seem less useful"
< 1764606792 788966 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi Yayimhere
< 1764606801 313409 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: It definitely does seem like people were disappointed. In USA history, there's this concept of Great Disappointment, where a bunch of people predicted that the world would end. When it didn't end, they became very bitter and splintered into a bunch of other movements, which still claimed that the world was ending, but in more subtle ways.
< 1764606808 177526 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: Good morning.
< 1764606811 68445 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but normally the people writing high-level languages and the people studying low-level languages are different
< 1764606821 188148 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: good morning to you too!
< 1764606828 905358 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: That certainly lines up with the quotes from Minksy and Perlis that I've got on the article, but that could be cherry-picking or Great Man Syndrome.
< 1764606867 843312 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's also possible that they *got* some results which weren't what they wanted
< 1764606878 627308 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Right! I think of people like Hopper as climbing a ladder of abstraction, while plenty of other folks stuck to electrical engineering and the nitty-gritty of building components at scale. In the 1950s a computer had to be installed by a team of techs, it had a dedicated operator and cleaning crew, etc.
< 1764606906 976144 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I know what reducing a language's expressive power looks like (to make it easier to implement), sometimes I've seriously fought for really minor points of expressive power (e.g. Acyclic Tag compared to regular cyclic tag)
< 1764606914 475221 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :even without having any obvious application for them in mind
< 1764606940 895710 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I imagine that can be a bit disheartening if you think that repeatedly reducing expressive power would get you down to some fundamental "simplest possible programming language"
< 1764606965 973742 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :after a while they start to become more complicated to describe, despite being easy to implement (e.g. cyclic tag is elegant in a way that Acyclic Tag is not)
< 1764606971 449753 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah. Minsky's program, for example. Minsky finally succeeded in writing a very small universal Turing-machine program sometime around then, and didn't learn anything from the venture. Today, we'd probably think of it as a recreational activity. Maybe it's one of those bits of maths that *became* recreational as computers advanced, like how mental math for taking roots is no longer popular.
< 1764606992 304316 :chomwitt_alt!~alex@2a02:85f:9a5f:900:42b0:76ff:fe46:a5fd QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1764607025 226942 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what I got out of the exercise was an improved ability to prove things TC, but that isn't obviously useful
< 1764607038 196523 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean, it's useful for an admin of the Esolang wiki, but most people aren't in that situation
< 1764607057 415817 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's definitely another possibility, although computational complexity wasn't developed enough for that. Maybe there's Kuhnian incommensurability in how they saw the programming landscape. I know that even today, lots of maths folks think of TMs as being the "simplest" such machine, rather than one that emulates pen and paper.
< 1764607077 108119 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: btw, if you care, then you'll be happy to know my parents have forced me to use my programming skills for something that isnt esolangs
< 1764607084 423023 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can go both simpler and more elegant than TMs very easily
< 1764607150 758586 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Oh, none of this inquiry is to critique what you're working on. I'm wholly focused on this question of what happened from 1961 to 1966 or so. To quote a fictional detective, it *vexes* me.
< 1764607161 678113 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I understand
< 1764607181 540778 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the most I can to do help is explain the outcomes I've personally observed doing similar research in the hope that it gives some insight into the other people who were doing that
< 1764607204 515815 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :1961 is recent enough that it might be possible to just find someone who was there at the time and ask
< 1764607218 411872 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that your work is super-important frontier work, in addition to the contributions you make to foundations. We do need researchers. If we're going to cut off a line of research then I'd like to understand why we did that.
< 1764607242 967206 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know whether it's important or not, I do it anyway
< 1764607244 947784 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :mostly as a hobby
< 1764607262 139365 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if it is important, that's a bonus
< 1764607273 663499 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: Yay! But also if that other thing is school, then I know that that can be very boring. I remember writing programs on my calculator to help me in with math and science class.
< 1764607293 48377 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :one thing that I've historically neglected is performance, there are double-exponentials everywhere in my work
> 1764607309 356544 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Corbin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169719&oldid=169109 5* 03 5* (+110) 10
< 1764607313 455470 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have been trying to care more about it recently
< 1764607328 197827 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: thankfully it isnt, its making a gamme
< 1764607336 607634 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :though I think I might make it in like
> 1764607346 558237 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Q!?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169720&oldid=169716 5* 03 5* (+15) 10
< 1764607357 688849 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a Malbolge or Brainf*ck assembly language
< 1764607357 914003 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :partly because I think it's "less solved" than pure TCness is, and less investigated in the esolang community (although probably more investigated in academic papers)
< 1764607361 547888 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for thee giggles
< 1764607375 791939 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh! Very fun.
< 1764607385 67960 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea!
< 1764607399 588362 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would advise not trying to write a game in Malbolge (or indeed write anything else in Malbolge)
< 1764607412 528434 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(though I will still be active in the esolanging community, since I landed an esoteric.codes interview)
< 1764607416 688418 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: true.
< 1764607431 455123 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's how I first got into esolangs, it didn't work out well in terms of writing the Malbolge programs specifically
< 1764607441 874338 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it did get me far enough to observe INTERCAL
< 1764607447 52623 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764607458 553147 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :one thing im *not* doing is intercal
< 1764607487 827992 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :now I'm wondering how many INTERCAL programs are intended as games, probably not that many of them
< 1764607500 636516 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm
< 1764607507 243662 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but yes, INTERCAL is a bit dated at this point
< 1764607510 788009 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe I *should* do INTERCAL
< 1764607514 28171 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :since its uncommon
< 1764607519 191609 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it mostly exists as a platform for adding jokes, but you need something to parody
< 1764607525 868138 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :true
< 1764607547 499904 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I'm not sure that many modern languages have features that are worth parodying, which is a shame
< 1764607601 327458 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe something like Rust's borrow-checker would be fun to parody, but I'm not sure how you would create something that superficially seems like a borrow checker and can do a basic impression of its most common uses, and then breaks spectacularly when you try to use it for something more complicated
< 1764607608 748815 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(which is how most of INTERCAL's features work)
< 1764607667 375843 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think my favourite INTERCAL jokes are the ones where we just use a tool correctly for its intended purpose, in situations where nobody else would sanely do that
< 1764607672 133157 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1764607704 696438 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like, C-INTERCAL has as far as I know a fully correct autoconf+automake setup, it took me months of learning to figure that out and required using the tools in ways they're hardly ever used in practice
< 1764607759 268619 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my favorite feature of interval is ABSTAIN
< 1764607781 786433 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :by line number or by gerund? or both?
< 1764607804 971274 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*INTERCAL
< 1764607810 197207 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I like ABSTAIN too, but the two uses of it are extremely different
< 1764607822 449325 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I think its by line number
< 1764607862 575400 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :line number is by far the computationally more interesting version
< 1764607868 734875 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :gerund is the better joke but not very practical in practice
< 1764607886 217201 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lemme check which is which real fast
< 1764607900 584883 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :line number is DO ABSTAIN FROM (10) or the like
< 1764607905 52107 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764607905 647587 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :gerund is DO ABSTAIN FROM CALCULATING or the like
< 1764607906 713735 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that one
< 1764607945 832985 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but yea, abstain is cool
< 1764607965 39902 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually this is why I don't like IGNORE, it's basically the boring version of ABSTAIN
< 1764607978 348303 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, i haven't heard of IGNORE
< 1764608003 766946 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it makes variable read-only
< 1764608010 74986 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :attempts to write to them just get ignored
< 1764608018 87718 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh
< 1764608020 776009 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can undo it with REMEMBER
< 1764608022 349070 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea thats kinda boring
< 1764608035 609311 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: ok that is a *little* funny
> 1764608125 54028 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Corbin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169721&oldid=169719 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1155) 10Good question! It wholly depends on the underlying models.
> 1764608177 130769 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Corbin14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169722&oldid=169721 5* 03Corbin 5* (+62) 10Add topic headings.
> 1764608314 388486 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Closed lambda term14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169723&oldid=162876 5* 03Corbin 5* (+132) 10/* Completeness */ Clearly indicate the open question.
> 1764608559 539023 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02File:Dango Language Logo.png10]]": author chose not to release to the public domain
> 1764608627 746750 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07File talk:Dango Language Logo.png14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169724&oldid=169327 5* 03Ais523 5* (+139) 10now deleted
> 1764608948 703871 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Underun14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=169725 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+628) 10Created page with "'''Underun''' is an esoteric programming language created by [[User:Yayimhere]]. It combines the [[Unlambda operators]] <code>d & c</code> with [[Sea]]'s <code>&</code>, [[Underloads]] <code>() and ~</code> and a special operator <code>.</code>. == Rewrite rul
< 1764608959 240299 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:9c00:2cdd:fe3f:e613 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1764608964 202795 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Underun14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169726&oldid=169725 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+0) 10
> 1764608974 150316 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Underun14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169727&oldid=169726 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+1) 10
> 1764609161 310302 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Underun14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169728&oldid=169727 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+170) 10categories
> 1764609204 92369 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Underun14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169729&oldid=169728 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+2) 10
> 1764609379 72737 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Underun14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169730&oldid=169729 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+70) 10/* Rewrite rules */ add brackets and d as a rewrite rule
> 1764609555 884325 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169731&oldid=169577 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+14) 10/* esolangs */
> 1764609610 946525 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Turing tarpit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169732&oldid=108696 5* 03Corbin 5* (+2816) 10/* Qualifying further additions */ new section
< 1764609621 616642 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:9c00:2cdd:fe3f:e613 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1764609628 453572 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :How much agreement needs to happen before a category is created?
> 1764609652 151175 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169733&oldid=169731 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+11) 10/* esolangs */
< 1764609654 537598 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :An admin needs to be okay with it, more or less.
< 1764609659 9453 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1764609681 638485 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmmm
> 1764609694 707046 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169734&oldid=169733 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+1) 10/* esolangs */
< 1764609730 350995 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it basically comes down to "will the admins, looking at the discussion, think it's unapproved"
< 1764609750 508551 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also whether the name is right, renaming a category is difficult so if one gets created at the wrong name it's best to delete it before it gets too many pages
< 1764609754 81319 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :What categories are you itching for? I've been waiting for a while, but I've accepted that e.g. five is not enough for a category.
< 1764609757 348015 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well then, do you think counter based is unapproved?
< 1764609762 541797 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, I think it's approved
< 1764609765 14570 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: counter based
< 1764609767 127264 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it'll be a lot of work to find all the pages that go there
< 1764609771 560978 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :true
< 1764609778 831391 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was proposed a whlie ago, some people liked it, nobody disliked it
< 1764609780 762885 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I can *try* and do *some* of that task
< 1764609787 322564 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are plenty of languages that fit
< 1764609789 733378 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yew
< 1764609791 553126 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*yea
< 1764609799 13320 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i do know quite a lot though
< 1764609804 981010 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I can try thats all im sayin
< 1764609805 114983 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure how long it'd take to go through the whole language list, we used to be able to do that but it's quite long nowadays
< 1764609826 50776 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764609837 102065 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :don't try yet, we will want a precise definition on the category description page
< 1764609841 124396 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764609845 163135 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then to add languages that fit the definition
< 1764609846 887857 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, then ill wait until thne
< 1764609849 154247 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*then
< 1764609851 818177 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :great!
< 1764609862 159556 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Perfect's the enemy of good; I agree with Keymaker that it can be done incrementally. There are many pages with redlinked categories. The Featured Article mechanism is meant to indicate that a page is perfect; otherwise, it's okay.
< 1764609891 738306 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: oh, I know
< 1764609895 890201 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :TBQH just deleting [[language list]] would be a great move. It could be done today.
< 1764609909 808608 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :TBQH?
< 1764609916 129364 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I do agree
< 1764609922 958864 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is one of the admin tasks I'd be doing if I had more capacity to concentrate (which I don't have right now, maybe later)
< 1764609923 786507 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :TBQH = TBH + q = quite
< 1764609928 870465 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah ok
< 1764609934 800725 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :To Be Quite Honest. Just IRC slang.
< 1764609935 958830 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've been awake for 17 hours already at this point and need to stay up a bit longer
< 1764609945 172751 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: wow
< 1764609956 260764 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and 17 hours awake is not the right point at which to do complex admin actions
< 1764609970 654564 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in fact
< 1764609982 393865 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually
< 1764609985 418577 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh! No worries. I'm not asking for edits right now. Quoting Zen of Python, "Now is better than never. But never is often better than *right now*."
< 1764609989 771084 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how do you have the ability to be on here like
< 1764609993 158364 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*every day*
< 1764610046 139753 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's basically just idling, may as well have my client connected to IRC in case anyone says anything is better
< 1764610057 885917 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* anyone says anything intersting
< 1764610063 60702 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Because we're adults working at computers. People tend to have chat windows open when they work at computers. (If you want a wild rabbit hole, look up why stock traders and big bankers *cannot* have chat windows open. They do it anyway and often get in trouble for it.)
< 1764610074 384709 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :OK so this is why you don't do complex things after 17 hours awake :-D
< 1764610079 425843 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that was quite the typo
< 1764610096 910266 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: oh interesting
< 1764610103 938165 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: in fact
< 1764610165 887261 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I should make a todo list for big esolang admin-related changes
< 1764610177 713856 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: i agree
< 1764610182 113520 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :deleting the language list and replacing it with the semi-serious language list would, I think, be an improvement (and fix the silly name)
< 1764610187 109770 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :featured language?
< 1764610196 253632 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: Not to recommend my career path, but by the time I was 17, I spent part of my school day in the computer lab, working to maintain several hundred Windows machines for my fellow students. Chat windows were a standard part of that.
< 1764610197 79301 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but that would mean being more careful about the SSLL's inclusion criteria
< 1764610215 812729 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: oh *wow*
< 1764610232 411357 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: if you ever meet a sysadmin they will tell you not to become one yourself, korvo isn't the first sysadmin I've seen that sentiment from
< 1764610248 593627 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: lol
< 1764610283 610093 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, I should go
< 1764610290 805777 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1764610296 238336 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :bye
< 1764610306 450584 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I can start an articles-for-deletion-esque process. We'll start with stuff that ought to be deleted per policy: copyright violations, requested deletions, redirects from eso namespace. I don't want to start the whole dogpile system that WP uses, nor the whole secret-policing part of it.
< 1764610322 108 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :...I'm always just a little slow with the typing.
< 1764610386 35700 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: So, there were other kids that also spent all day in the computer lab. The thing was, they were *using* it. Some of that was classes that we all took, like how to use word processors and spreadsheets. Some of it was for kids that were much more popular than me; in the USA we have "yearbooks" which record what happened, and there was a constructed popularity system that they were constantly managing for the yearbook.
< 1764610412 648447 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: damn
< 1764610443 699826 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :What I'm saying is that if you aim to maintain infrastructure, then you'll always be infra-; you'll always be working to support other folks. It's noble but also infuriating because your peers will take that infrastructure for granted.
< 1764610467 697188 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1764610529 719493 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The tradeoff is in the name. A sysadmin knows about *systems*; that means disciplines like "systems thinking" and "distributed systems" which sound academic but are extremely relevant to today's interconnected world. Also, we are *administrators*; we have the responsibility of keeping things afloat, and with responsibility there comes the power of decision-making.
< 1764610557 312579 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm
< 1764610587 491675 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Like, a non-trivial portion of why I'm allowed to just edit eso namespace and generally don't get reverted is because I understand what a system shaped like English WP is like, and I understand what it means to admin that sort of site. After being an admin for so long, I understand how to make non-admin changes to the system, too.
< 1764610622 495540 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm allowed to discuss power precisely because I'm not holding it. I'm allowed to be flippant about big decisions precisely because I can't actually flip the switches.
< 1764610622 988572 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm
< 1764610689 397458 :cbs!df2953d28a@2a03:6000:1812:100::1451 PART :#esolangs
< 1764610740 306547 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: Oh, and also, I *discuss* nearly everything I plan to do. If I'm going to write even 1000 chars, I will usually make at least a note in IRC first. I'll also plan it with a scratch pad sometimes, thinking about what to edit before I start editing.
< 1764610762 28468 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs : hm makes sense
< 1764610765 713129 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I recognize that this is part of the luxury of being in chat. That's also why I leave notes on talk pages for others.
< 1764611663 593419 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:9c00:2cdd:fe3f:e613 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1764612293 111414 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc6:3201:748c:ce79:a6f7:a393 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
< 1764612487 475150 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :“<korvo> it's not common to find folks who know what ‘dun’ means” => yeah, https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0968.html sounds like it invented words for just the punchline
> 1764612514 493933 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arbitrary memory emulation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169735&oldid=165367 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (-1238) 10rewrite article
< 1764612579 847560 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm do I bother with AoC this year?
< 1764612643 216984 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Might as well, I guess.
> 1764612676 844035 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Combinatory logic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169736&oldid=169022 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1742) 10/* Completeness */ Mirror [[Turing tarpit]] more closely. Split into subsections. List open questions. These are off the top of my head and I may need to do another literature review.
< 1764612776 482840 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :“*we* divide the opcodes […] based on whether * we* understand the effects of those codes.” => I think we divide opcodes (or sometimes full instructions) to defined and undefined based on whether we can trust that future CPUs won't behave completely differently on them. The undefined ones either ignore the prefix or some bits in them, or always trap.
< 1764612802 359155 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I'm going to save up my strength for the langjam. I'm currently at the same place as yumaikas in https://lobste.rs/s/gtcrvu/langjam_gamejam_build_programming#c_mbchk9 where I'm not sure if just building a Forth is okay.
< 1764612830 731189 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: What a perfect reference. Nice memory.
< 1764612902 806138 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So, I think that humans doing something because of the current spec, like iterating on it to make a future spec, is still something that *we humans* are doing. It certainly is an oscillating action in spacetime: we influence the chips, the chips influence us, we influence the chips, etc.
> 1764613043 787833 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arbitrary memory emulation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169737&oldid=169735 5* 03Corbin 5* (+90) 10/* Usage */ Used in Laconic and NQL to write small Turing machines.
< 1764613198 629847 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:9c00:2cdd:fe3f:e613 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1764613230 741515 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arbitrary memory emulation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169738&oldid=169737 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+25) 10format as list + category
> 1764613375 158415 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arbitrary memory emulation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169739&oldid=169738 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+11) 10/* Operations */ jank
< 1764613445 813449 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm
< 1764613479 693587 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :“*Why* did the study of Turing tarpits decline?” => I don't think it declined, because a lot of people seem to be interested in Brainfuck even today.
< 1764613495 53682 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas:true
< 1764613498 992957 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oops
< 1764613551 666832 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah. I think it shifted from being an academic study purely of Turing machines, to being a study of TMs and also Post machines and Minsky machines, to studying cellular automata as well, to the current day.
< 1764613571 147813 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
> 1764613631 412629 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arbitrary memory emulation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169740&oldid=169739 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (-29) 10/* Usage */ rewrite sentenceI think it's a queue?
< 1764613641 489836 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I suppose I'm looking for some strong statement like a 1967 paper saying "Following Böhm's 1966 theorem, we hereby abandon Turing machines in favor of flowchart programming", or a 1965 paper saying "Following the commercial explosion of MOSFETs, manual assembly of circuits appears destined for the museum halls"
< 1764613789 598917 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the question is if that existys
< 1764613794 955823 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but im not one to conjecture that
< 1764613801 815247 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: It's only 12 days now and I certainly won't rush it.
< 1764613820 76585 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Fun... I messed up the bonus part on the first try.
< 1764613837 745023 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, second part
< 1764613909 7449 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: No worries. I'm only guessing based on the research that I've already done. It's frustrating because of what Robert Evans calls "the fact that back then there were only like a dozen guys who all knew each other", an instance of the Friendship Paradox.
< 1764613972 551482 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lucky 10000 if you haven't seen this before, BTW. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship_paradox It's the phenomenon that your friends are usually more popular than you. It's statistically true for most binary relations.
< 1764613987 869486 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm
< 1764613989 453011 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :weird
< 1764613995 308954 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :unrealted but
< 1764613997 867939 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for some reason I have an urge to make an oisc instruction
< 1764614007 53538 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :defined within malbolge
< 1764614065 821936 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( which Robert Evans )
< 1764614180 625975 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: Oh wow, there's even a disambiguation page. TIL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Evans_(journalist) this one, a journalist focused on investigating bad people. He podcasts roughly one biography per week, and one of the recurring themes of 20th century history is that some specific intermediaries keep showing up due to having massive social circles.
< 1764614220 555031 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I do know that one. And it did sound like something he'd say. I just didn't expect him to come up in a TCS context :P
< 1764614302 190246 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: Malbolge's OISC is actually a great example of how to go naturally to a ZISC. We might call the one instruction something like "Decrypt, Maybe Input, Maybe Output, Permute". The ZISC hardwires that one instruction.
< 1764614318 836602 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Because the OISC doesn't have any arguments, it might as well be a ZISC; that's what I mean by "natural".
< 1764614319 729029 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: yea
< 1764614383 188951 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm
< 1764614397 368638 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :now I actually came up with an interesting way of doing a conditional ZISC
< 1764614401 113544 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thats self modifying
< 1764614405 668631 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or more so self describing
< 1764614416 855730 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I know two English WP admins. The other is David Gerard. The common link is that I'm anti-crank, and that ends up intersecting with anti-grift and anti-TREACLES efforts, which heavily overlap with Evans' anti-fascist research. (I *am* anti-fascist, but for more definitional reasons.)
< 1764614420 432884 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ZISC or OISC
< 1764614439 811362 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wish they studied a Tarpit that was at least somewhat better. Like BytePusher, though it's not technically a Turing Tarpit but an interesting OISC with bounded memory.
> 1764614442 827383 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arbitrary memory emulation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169741&oldid=169740 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+246) 10/* Operations */ note about A_length
< 1764614465 962885 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: Well, this is all very natural. It's part of why I don't really like talking about ZISC as if it were active research; it's more like a perspective.
< 1764614480 72014 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: hm
< 1764614537 707546 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: Say you've got a CPU, like the x86 or ARM in your current computer. We could say that it's an OISC in the sense that it has *one* behavior, something like "Fetch, Decode, ALU, Memory, Retire". Yes, that's just what the programmable pipeline does, but when it's hooked up to memory it cannot do anything else.
< 1764614578 488738 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And we can say that that's a ZISC since we can't change that one behavior; it's got *zero* programmability in terms of its circuits. The only thing that you can really change is the initial contents of memory.
< 1764614589 613718 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyways
< 1764614591 553620 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 PRIVMSG #esolangs :bye
< 1764614603 195349 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Peace.
< 1764614612 272373 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.184.125.90 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1764616831 526651 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nein.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169742&oldid=169700 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+68) 10
> 1764616879 554203 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nein.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169743&oldid=169742 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+1) 10i meant shown
> 1764617115 219016 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Y/Y14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169744&oldid=163597 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-144) 10
< 1764617127 233306 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"how you would create something that superficially seems like a borrow checker and can do a basic impression of its most common uses, and then breaks spectacularly when you try to use it for something more complicated" => don't allow reference members in user-defined algebraic types. that makes it much easier to implement the borrow checker and reason about it, but programs will have to do pointer to 
< 1764617133 222228 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :reference unsafe casts for most of the complicated uses. but I don't think this works as a joke.
< 1764617342 273997 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"People tend to have chat windows open when they work at computers." => which you can tell because a lot of the chat parts of the internet that I frequent are more active during weekdays when users are working, even though you'd expect that they're more active during weekend when they have free time. 
< 1764617375 262029 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1764617402 959750 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not a sysadmin and I'll also tell you not to become a sysadmin.
< 1764617408 68705 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1764617436 347561 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though admittedly my father is kind of a sysadmin, but he does the parts that avoid a lot of the drawbacks of being a sysadmin
< 1764617700 137468 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Following the commercial explosion of MOSFETs, manual assembly of circuits appears destined for the museum halls" => true, there are no longer mostly american indian women working on weaving core memory arrays. only hobbyists make circuits by hand. 
< 1764617775 551107 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(at least in the scale of tiny parts of circuits; my co-workers are still building large circuits for work but they are connecting big pre-manufactured parts with wires or cables, not soldering components onto a circuit board)
> 1764618709 673812 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arbitrary memory emulation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169745&oldid=169741 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+4) 10fix expression
> 1764618780 965892 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arbitrary memory emulation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169746&oldid=169745 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (-13) 10
> 1764619220 628683 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169747&oldid=169628 5* 03Corbin 5* (+220) 10/* Should we make a category of speedlangs? */
< 1764620502 230865 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.9.1+deb2+b3 - https://znc.in
< 1764620502 258333 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.9.1+deb2+b3 - https://znc.in
> 1764621956 480514 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dision14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169748&oldid=168877 5* 03Buckets 5* (+2) 10
> 1764622012 977112 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esorn14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169749&oldid=167899 5* 03Buckets 5* (+0) 10
> 1764623080 773751 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UnicodeLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169750&oldid=167392 5* 03Esolangist alt 5* (+1070) 10Esolangist alt
> 1764623814 342649 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UnicodeLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=169751&oldid=169750 5* 03 5* (+249) 10/* Basic Latin */