00:12:52 <fizzie> It's not even _that_ much smaller than this place in terms of netsplit.de statistics (5-6k vs. 33-34k users).
00:13:21 <fizzie> Wonder what happened to OFTC user counts mid-2024 https://netsplit.de/networks/history/top10_2024u.png -- maybe some sort of big (Matrix?) bridge turndown, like here.
00:13:29 <ais523> I've visited #anagol in the past
00:38:00 <somefan> what was the atmosphere like?
00:39:12 -!- aadenboy has joined.
00:39:21 <aadenboy> good afternoon
00:39:58 <somefan> hello!
00:41:06 <int-e> fizzie: may be matrix related, may be more (like a deliberate bot sweep); techwrongs says there were a lot of CTCP version queries around that time too. https://weblogs.openttd.org/openttd/2024/07/16.html has 263 quits and 176 joins; a lot of the nicks that went missing have weird [m] names.
00:41:34 <int-e> Anyway, don't know.
00:43:51 <int-e> Like, I've narrowed down the date, but I didn't find any explanation that isn't speculation.
00:44:38 <fizzie> [m] definitely sounds matrixy.
00:44:59 <fizzie> I don't think it matters terribly much, was just curious.
00:45:14 <int-e> Yeah the [m] isn't the weird part, I remember that naming scheme.
00:46:13 <int-e> I looked at the nick names and... I don't know, something about them doesn't feel like nick names that people would actually choose? I don't know.
00:46:30 <int-e> err, nicknames
01:21:23 <somefan> nontheless, s'cool that golf.shinh.org is still alive and kicking for its age
01:22:52 <somefan> (altho i checked it recently and half the requests didn't work [at least for my client], just hope that i didn't jinx it)
01:32:59 <esolangs> [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177622&oldid=177610 * Qpx5997 * (+365) 
01:37:54 <esolangs> [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177623&oldid=177622 * Qpx5997 * (+481) /* Commands */
01:38:17 <esolangs> [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177624&oldid=177623 * Qpx5997 * (+28) 
01:52:52 <esolangs> [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177625&oldid=177624 * Qpx5997 * (+396) 
01:53:40 -!- ajal has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement).
01:59:36 <esolangs> [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177626&oldid=177625 * Qpx5997 * (+326) 
02:34:54 -!- aadenboy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
02:47:32 -!- aadenboy has joined.
03:13:55 <aadenboy> goodnight
03:13:58 -!- aadenboy has quit (Quit: goodbye for now! back another day).
04:01:39 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed).
05:04:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
05:43:22 -!- ais523 has joined.
06:28:18 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177627&oldid=177531 * Dragoneater67 * (+2) fix typo + improve formatting
07:04:27 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:09:26 -!- somefan has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:12:26 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:29:04 <esolangs> [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177628&oldid=177609 * EsolangerII * (+142) 
08:39:37 <esolangs> [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177629&oldid=177628 * EsolangerII * (+170) 
08:41:07 <esolangs> [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177630&oldid=177629 * EsolangerII * (+0) 
08:48:45 <esolangs> [[User:EsolangerII]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177631 * EsolangerII * (+172) Created page with "Hi, I'm EsolangerII. Creator of [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]], an esoteric language where everything is done with a single command !() based on argument count."
08:54:00 <esolangs> [[User talk:EsolangerII]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177632 * EsolangerII * (+7) Created page with "Contact"
08:54:13 -!- impomatic has joined.
08:54:59 <esolangs> [[User talk:EsolangerII]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177633&oldid=177632 * EsolangerII * (+5) 
09:40:56 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed).
10:45:21 <APic> HI
10:45:23 <APic> s/I/i/
10:54:30 <fizzie> Fun C thing: unlike many other things (like the comma and conditional expressions), the result of generic selection is an lvalue if the chosen result expression is. So you could for example build a kind of a compile-time switch expression that you can assign to, without going through the usual workaround of making a pointer and then dereferencing it:
10:54:53 <fizzie> 10:54 <fizzie> ,cc int a = 0, b = 0, c = 0, d = 0; _Generic((char(*)[3])0, char(*)[1]: a, char(*)[2]: b, char(*)[3]: c, char(*)[4]: d) = 1;
10:54:55 <fizzie> 10:54 <candide> fizzie: no output: a = 0; b = 0; c = 1; d = 0
11:07:37 -!- msv has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:08:02 -!- msv has joined.
12:34:24 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177634&oldid=177557 * None1 * (+53) 
12:35:36 <esolangs> [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177635&oldid=177630 * None1 * (+84) 
12:36:12 <esolangs> [[User:None1]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177636&oldid=177101 * None1 * (+57) /* My Esolangs */
12:36:32 <esolangs> [[OCPL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177637&oldid=169046 * None1 * (+70) 
12:36:50 <esolangs> [[OCPL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177638&oldid=177637 * None1 * (-5) 
13:53:57 -!- tromp has joined.
14:15:00 -!- lynndotpy6093627 has quit (Quit: bye bye).
14:16:05 -!- lynndotpy6093627 has joined.
14:20:07 -!- Sgeo has joined.
14:36:08 <b_jonas> fizzie: that's funny because there doesn't seem to be much reason for it, you could just put address operators inside and a dereference outside
14:38:31 <b_jonas> maybe they figured that the question mark operator should have been able to return an lvalue too, but they don't want to change it now because then someone might accidentally use it and not realize that it won't work with older compilers
14:46:19 <b_jonas> fizzie: try /msg geordi_ -w { f(0); f(1); } void f(bool c) { uint16_t x = 0; struct { uint16_t y: 5 = 0; } s; (c ? x : s.y) = 80; cout << x << " " << s.y << " "; }
14:47:42 <esolangs> [[User:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177639 * Widuruwana * (+5858) Initial Design
14:47:59 <b_jonas> C++ allows the question mark operator to return an lvalue that may or may not refer to a bit field. here if c then it assigns 80 to a full 16 bit wide integer, but if not c then it truncates the 80 into a 5 bit wide bit field. there's no way to make sense of that as the question mark operator returning a reference, or rewrite it to the question mark returning an address and then dereferencing it 
14:48:11 <b_jonas> I don't know how they came up with this
14:49:14 <b_jonas> and this was deliberately because C++11 specifically changed the rule from C++03, it wasn't just an oversight in the standard that they went with when discovered
15:02:32 -!- amby has joined.
15:08:28 <esolangs> [[User talk:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177640 * Aadenboy * (+692) Created page with "it looks interesting but I don't think it fits stylistically with the wiki? at least not given the current skin. the solid borders and shadows are also rather jarring against the background. more technical: the flexbox causes the middl
15:14:54 <fizzie> C++ has a rather more elaborate value categorization scheme (what with that whole prvalue/xvalue/lvalue distinction), and it does have references, so I guess you could argue it's more reasonable for C++ to allow it. Although I agree it's still a little weird, since it can't just be a case of the operator yielding a reference.
15:17:36 <fizzie> In C, the type of a conditional operator expression is a common type for the second and third operand (with a slightly subtle rule for pointers and a special case for null pointer constants that I think might be on my list of types GDB gets wrong), which means even ignoring bit-fields, you can't use a conditional operator for a "heterogenous" assignment (the address-dereference way).
15:26:14 <fizzie> (You can use the _Generic thing for that, but at least it's always resolved at compile time. Variably modified types are not allowed in generic selections.)
15:27:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177641&oldid=177640 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+207) 
15:36:23 <esolangs> [[Ordinal numbers]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177642 * Aadenboy * (+510) program form
15:36:51 <b_jonas> I still think bitfields in C was a mistake but it's a mistake we're stuck with
17:13:08 <Sgeo> I've been learning about Fortran, and I want to make comments about old versions feeling esoteric, but... it doesn't really. There are oddities, DO loops (which are more like modern for loops) naming the last statement they apply to.
17:13:16 <Sgeo> I guess for "historical language that feels esoteric" Smalltalk-72 is a much better fit
17:13:27 <Sgeo> Oh, old Fortran has that I,J,K,L,M,N variables assumed integers others assumed real thing.
17:13:40 <Sgeo> (And I posted all that IN #fortran by mistake >.> )
17:16:46 <korvo> Great thoughts, honestly. One of my biggest realizations over the past half-decade is that C is a hack and Fortran is quite solid. I don't want to *write* Fortran, but I appreciate it much more now that I understand how C evolved.
17:17:50 <Sgeo> Oh, the original IF is weird. IF (a) 10,15,20. If a<0 goto statement 10, if it's 0 go to statement 15, if it's positive go to statement 20
17:18:37 <Sgeo> The team that made Fortran were reportedly thinking more about how to build the optimizing compiler than the design of the language itself
17:23:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:Iterate]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177643&oldid=174018 * Aadenboy * (+500) /* computation without $# */ [[Countable]] reference
17:23:45 <esolangs> [[Talk:Iterate]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177644&oldid=177643 * Aadenboy * (+5) /* computation without $# */ <em>
17:31:48 <b_jonas> Sgeo: I heard that some versions of Fortran allow you to statically allocate non-contiguous arrays
17:33:24 <b_jonas> if so then I think that counts as an esoteric feature
18:07:59 -!- Everything has joined.
18:10:21 <esolangs> [[   ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177645 * BODOKE2801e * (+11) Created page with "Redirecting"
18:11:54 <esolangs> [[   ]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177646&oldid=177645 * BODOKE2801e * (+195) 
18:16:29 <esolangs> [[   ]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177647&oldid=177646 * BODOKE2801e * (-206) Blanked the page
18:31:29 -!- somefan has joined.
19:19:41 <esolangs> [[Countable]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177648&oldid=177621 * Aadenboy * (+833) /* Examples */ [[Rule 110]] implementation
19:21:35 -!- Everything has quit (Quit: leaving).
19:50:25 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
19:51:15 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
19:53:17 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
20:12:58 -!- somefan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:20:22 -!- somefan has joined.
20:23:49 -!- somefan has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:43:45 <fizzie> Proper FORTRAN also has that column-dependent syntax (a "C" -- or any other non-blank character -- in column 6 denotes a continuation line), which perhaps counts as esoteric syntax at this point.
20:46:02 <fizzie> And a "C" in column 1 marks a comment.
20:51:33 <fizzie> I tried writing a Befunge interpreter in Fortran once, despite not knowing the language basically at all: https://zem.fi/tmp/fbef2.for.txt
20:51:52 <fizzie> I believe subsequent versions of the language relaxed those rules about strict meanings of the columns.
21:05:56 -!- somefan has joined.
21:06:53 -!- somefan has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:56:57 <zzo38> I had written some ideas about how I would think to make a programming language with the similar use than C but would be better in my opinion (that other people likely would disagree)
22:05:41 <APic> Good Night
22:47:21 -!- impomatic has joined.