2026-03-01: 00:38:32 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 00:55:53 [[ZecZec]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177191&oldid=177179 * BODOKE2801e * (+2) /* Trivia */ linking fixed 00:56:21 [[ZecZec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177192&oldid=177191 * BODOKE2801e * (+2) /* Trivia */ ------------------------------------------------------------- 00:56:37 -!- tromp has joined. 00:57:11 -!- tromp has quit (Client Quit). 01:03:30 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:03:48 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 01:22:17 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Cool Bungle * New user account 01:43:06 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177193&oldid=177181 * Cool Bungle * (+269) 02:12:35 [[Septem Lingua]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177194&oldid=177170 * Yoyolin0409 * (-1) /* extr */ 02:17:21 [[Input hello world or else:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177195&oldid=176444 * BODOKE2801e * (+323) /* Implementations */ 02:22:29 [[Septem Lingua]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177196&oldid=177194 * Yoyolin0409 * (+9) /* eval */ 02:22:39 [[Septem Lingua]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177197&oldid=177196 * Yoyolin0409 * (+8) /* exec */ 02:23:13 [[Septem Lingua]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177198&oldid=177197 * Yoyolin0409 * (+16) /* process */ 02:26:57 [[Septem Lingua]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177199&oldid=177198 * Yoyolin0409 * (+104) /* string */ 02:27:13 [[Septem Lingua]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177200&oldid=177199 * Yoyolin0409 * (+0) /* string */ 02:38:52 [[ZecZec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177201&oldid=177192 * Aadenboy * (-42) 02:39:21 [[Septem Lingua]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177202&oldid=177200 * Yoyolin0409 * (+1237) /* statistics */ 02:40:04 [[Septem Lingua]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177203&oldid=177202 * Yoyolin0409 * (-3) /* More Coincidence */ 02:41:24 [[Septem Lingua]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177204&oldid=177203 * Yoyolin0409 * (+107) /* OOP examples */ 02:41:39 [[Input hello world or else:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177205&oldid=177195 * Aadenboy * (+66) /* Implementations */ Lua golf 02:42:52 [[Septem Lingua]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177206&oldid=177204 * Yoyolin0409 * (+177) /* CT interpreter */ 02:48:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 02:49:55 [[Septem Lingua/STL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177207&oldid=176953 * Yoyolin0409 * (+121) 02:52:11 [[User:Yoyolin0409/STL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177208 * Yoyolin0409 * (+116) Created page with "This contains some STL related to Septem Lingua, but they are still not in use. ==media== ==data== ==page== ==this==" 02:55:30 [[User:Yoyolin0409/STL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177209&oldid=177208 * Yoyolin0409 * (+286) /* media */ 02:55:53 [[Septem Lingua]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177210&oldid=177206 * Yoyolin0409 * (-7) /* typeof */ 03:01:12 [[User:Yoyolin0409/STL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177211&oldid=177209 * Yoyolin0409 * (+933) /* data */ 03:05:02 -!- op_4 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:05:38 -!- op_4 has joined. 03:12:54 [[User:Cool Bungle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177212 * Cool Bungle * (+17) Created page with "Cool. ...Bungle" 03:14:34 [[User talk:Cool Bungle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177213 * Cool Bungle * (+44) Created page with "I don't know what people typically put here." 04:03:38 -!- ais523 has joined. 04:20:01 [[ZecZec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177214&oldid=177201 * BODOKE2801e * (+1558) MEHR THANGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 05:00:59 [[User:Yoyolin0409/STL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177215&oldid=177211 * Cleverxia * (+17) /* data */ tyoos 05:01:50 -!- somefan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:04:46 [[User talk:Yoyolin0409]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177216&oldid=176122 * Cleverxia * (+99) /* You have been promoted to developers. */ 05:14:54 Do any programming language compilers support page numbers (rather than only line numbers) in error messages and debug information? 05:31:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 05:42:38 (The page number would correspond to the number of form feeds in the source file.) 06:18:37 [[User talk:Cool Bungle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177217&oldid=177213 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+235) 06:45:23 [[User talk:Cool Bungle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177218&oldid=177217 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+116) 08:03:38 -!- tromp has joined. 08:24:34 [[User talk:Yoyolin0409]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177219&oldid=177216 * PrySigneToFry * (+64) 08:25:31 [[Septem Lingua/STL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177220&oldid=177207 * PrySigneToFry * (+6) 08:46:07 [[Error: The system didn't find the object, program, or command that you're trying to access or execute.]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177221 * PrySigneToFry * (+1275) Created page with "'''''Error: The system didn't find the object, program, or command that you're trying to access or execute.''''' is an unusable programming language designed by PSTF, in 09:36:45 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed). 09:37:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:05:10 zzo38: do you want just the compiler to support it, or also a debugger? debuggers use the line number to point you to the part of the code that's running on each stack frame. 10:23:35 -!- impomatic has joined. 10:51:14 Hi 11:30:17 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:17:14 -!- b_jonas has joined. 12:34:13 [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177222&oldid=177159 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+1344) /* my esolangs */ forgot one 12:39:26 [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177223&oldid=176229 * Cleverxia * (+761) /* Haskell */ 12:39:53 [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177224&oldid=177223 * Cleverxia * (+0) /* Half-Broken_Car_in_Heavy_Traffic */ 12:46:47 [[Filename "xxx" doesn't seem to be a valid filename/commmand!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177225&oldid=177157 * None1 * (-18) Remove deleted category+Move existing categories to the bottom 12:47:25 [[MarkupL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177226&oldid=177155 * None1 * (-18) Remove deleted category 12:48:17 [[Snakel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177227&oldid=177154 * None1 * (-18) 12:48:44 [[Stuley]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177228&oldid=177177 * None1 * (-18) 12:50:08 [[Category talk:Gaia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177229&oldid=177160 * None1 * (+329) 12:54:12 [[Contains everything]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177230&oldid=170896 * C++DSUCKER * (+0) 13:08:32 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:24:19 [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177231&oldid=177172 * Zlfp * (+839) added a reply 13:54:49 -!- lynndotpy609362 has joined. 13:56:07 -!- lynndotpy60936 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:56:07 -!- lynndotpy609362 has changed nick to lynndotpy60936. 13:56:07 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:56:43 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:57:33 -!- shachaf has joined. 13:57:55 -!- int-e has joined. 13:58:34 [[User:NeurosamaLover]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177232&oldid=176633 * NeurosamaLover * (+107) 14:00:41 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:10:42 [[User:NeurosamaLover]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177233&oldid=177232 * NeurosamaLover * (+13) 14:17:26 -!- b_jonas has joined. 15:04:24 [[User:Dragoneater67]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177234&oldid=177136 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+167) 15:07:03 [[User:Yoyolin0409/STL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177235&oldid=177215 * Yoyolin0409 * (-9) /* this */ 15:08:02 [[User talk:Yoyolin0409]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177236&oldid=177219 * Yoyolin0409 * (+103) /* */ 15:12:59 -!- amby has joined. 15:26:51 [[Error: The system didn't find the object, program, or command that you're trying to access or execute.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177237&oldid=177221 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-226) /* Note */ not really true. 15:35:32 [[ZecZec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177238&oldid=177214 * BODOKE2801e * (+17) /* Syntax */ 15:57:26 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed). 16:40:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:49:09 -!- pr1sm has joined. 16:54:38 -!- somefan has joined. 16:56:00 [[CAESAR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177239&oldid=177187 * Oak lod * (-202) added more info on the creator 17:01:56 [[CAESAR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177240&oldid=177239 * Oak lod * (+238) Fixed accidental deletions done by me 17:06:06 -!- lisbeths has joined. 17:08:52 -!- tromp has joined. 17:09:21 [[CAESAR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177241&oldid=177240 * Oak lod * (+4) Deserves it's own heading 17:10:31 [[CAESAR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177242&oldid=177241 * Oak lod * (+0) Colon not needed 17:20:35 [[Righght]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177243 * Cool Bungle * (+1406) Bombungus. 17:22:09 [[Righght]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177244&oldid=177243 * Cool Bungle * (+2) 17:22:53 [[Righght]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177245&oldid=177244 * Cool Bungle * (+0) 17:23:30 [[User talk:A()]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177246&oldid=160187 * Mrtli08 * (+207) 17:23:33 [[Righght]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177247&oldid=177245 * Cool Bungle * (+0) 17:30:26 [[Righght]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177248&oldid=177247 * Cool Bungle * (+260) 17:31:47 [[Righght]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177249&oldid=177248 * Cool Bungle * (+3) 17:32:55 [[Righght]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177250&oldid=177249 * Cool Bungle * (+21) 17:36:08 -!- pr1sm has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:42:12 -!- somefan has changed hostmask to ~somefan@user/somefan. 17:45:57 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Cool Bungle * uploaded "[[File:Righght's Logo.jpg]]" 17:47:32 [[Righght]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177252&oldid=177250 * Cool Bungle * (+70) 17:49:05 [[Righght]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177253&oldid=177252 * Cool Bungle * (-1) 17:52:33 [[Righght]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177254&oldid=177253 * Cool Bungle * (+1) 18:00:41 [[User:Oak lod]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177255&oldid=177182 * Oak lod * (+1) 18:37:23 [[Whereismystack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177256&oldid=175639 * Realgitman1 * (-6) /* link */ 18:37:50 [[Whereismystack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177257&oldid=177256 * Realgitman1 * (+0) /* Commands */ 18:38:05 [[Whereismystack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177258&oldid=177257 * Realgitman1 * (+11) /* example */ 18:40:22 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:50:49 -!- tromp has joined. 19:01:32 -!- somefan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:15:21 -!- lisbeths has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 19:20:58 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:30:25 -!- msv has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:30:53 -!- msv has joined. 19:33:22 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:42:14 cu 19:48:27 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:49:22 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 20:17:17 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:46:34 -!- DOS_User_webchat has joined. 20:51:20 [[User:Thalassohora]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177259&oldid=150170 * Thalassohora * (-362) Removing some uneeded/reduntant information. 20:52:45 [[Gato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177260&oldid=153881 * Thalassohora * (+109) 20:53:01 [[Gato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177261&oldid=177260 * Thalassohora * (-9) 20:54:15 [[Gato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177262&oldid=177261 * Thalassohora * (-59) 20:55:20 [[Gato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177263&oldid=177262 * Thalassohora * (-2066) Blanked the page 20:55:29 [[Talk:Gato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177264&oldid=153882 * Thalassohora * (-556) Blanked the page 20:57:31 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Thalassohora * moved [[Gato]] to [[Talk:Useless]]: Reduntant 20:58:07 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Thalassohora * moved [[Talk:Useless]] to [[Talk:Useless12345 SORRY]]: Misspelled title 20:59:42 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177269&oldid=177100 * Thalassohora * (-11) /* G */ 21:05:25 -!- DOS_User_webchat has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:09:01 [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177270&oldid=176872 * Thalassohora * (+247) /* Could you "delete" my account? */ new section 21:12:07 [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177271&oldid=177270 * Thalassohora * (+25) /* Could you "delete" my account? */ 21:12:24 [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[User:Thalassohora]]": user request 21:14:19 [[Special:Log/renameuser]] renameuser * Ais523 * Ais523 renamed user [[User:Thalassohora]] (24 edits) to [[User:Deleted-f42bea8d]]: anonymizing user's contributions 21:40:35 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine). 21:40:58 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 22:20:04 -!- somefan has joined. 22:24:28 -!- somefan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:28:51 -!- somefan has joined. 22:35:42 b_jonas: I do mean the compiler and debugger (since I mentioned the debug information) 2026-03-02: 00:37:32 `? password 00:37:36 The password of the month is my secret, you know what my secret is, only caps 00:38:38 `learn The password of the month is pending approval 00:38:45 Relearned 'password': The password of the month is pending approval 00:44:29 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 01:55:38 [[ZecZec]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177272&oldid=177238 * BODOKE2801e * (+2) /* Fibonacci numbers */ 02:35:47 -!- somefan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:40:58 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed). 03:03:16 -!- impomatic has joined. 03:03:39 -!- lisbeths has joined. 03:12:45 [[User talk:A()]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177273&oldid=177246 * Dragoneater67 * (+382) /* ((()))(((())))=5 discussion */ 03:17:54 [[User:Dragoneater67/Gato archive]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177274 * Dragoneater67 * (+2089) Created page with "The following is the contents of the now deleted [[Gato]] page: Gato is one of the least known [[Esoteric programming language|esoteric languages]]. It first appeared on 27th August of 2009, as a remake of happyhelper5's Minecraft in Delphi 04:19:07 -!- pool has quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat). 04:48:41 [[Input hello world or else without a quine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177275&oldid=142029 * BODOKE2801e * (+163) 05:32:51 -!- lisbeths has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:35:55 -!- pool has joined. 05:54:25 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 06:34:27 [[User:NeurosamaLover]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177276&oldid=177233 * NeurosamaLover * (+265) 06:39:35 [[User:Dragoneater67/Gato archive]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177277&oldid=177274 * Dragoneater67 * (+52) 06:41:13 [[User:Dragoneater67/Gato archive]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177278&oldid=177277 * Dragoneater67 * (+4) add line break 06:53:44 [[ZeroGrid2D]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177279 * NeurosamaLover * (+7344) Created page with "ZeroGrid2D is a 2D grid-based esoteric programming language developed in March 2026 to **explicitly prove Turing-completeness** in response to doubts about the computational power of its predecessor, [[ZeroStack2D]]. Unlike ZeroStack2D (which uses a 2D code gr 06:54:51 [[ZeroGrid2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177280&oldid=177279 * NeurosamaLover * (+3402) 06:59:11 [[ZeroGrid2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177281&oldid=177280 * Corbin * (+29) Tastes like slop. 07:09:46 [[Input hello world or else without a quine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177282&oldid=177275 * Ractangle * (+128) /* Interpreters */ 07:12:48 [[Input hello world or else:]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177283&oldid=177205 * Ractangle * (-6) /* Python */ 07:16:20 [[Input hello world or else without a quine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177284&oldid=177282 * Ractangle * (-12) /* Python */ 07:17:59 [[ZecZec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177285&oldid=177272 * Cleverxia * (+124) /* Examples */ Hopefully it works 07:18:49 [[ZecZec]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177286&oldid=177285 * Cleverxia * (+1) /* Truth-machine */ 07:18:54 [[ZeroGrid2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177287&oldid=177281 * Dragoneater67 * (+62) fix formatting + categorization 07:19:29 [[ZeroGrid2D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177288&oldid=177287 * Dragoneater67 * (-3) 07:20:33 [[ZeroGrid2D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177289&oldid=177288 * Dragoneater67 * (+10) 07:20:44 [[ZeroGrid2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177290&oldid=177289 * Dragoneater67 * (+0) 07:21:28 [[ZeroGrid2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177291&oldid=177290 * Dragoneater67 * (-112) /* See Also */ were these related in the first place??? 07:27:39 [[User talk:NeurosamaLover]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177292&oldid=176634 * Dragoneater67 * (+348) 07:27:49 [[User talk:NeurosamaLover]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177293&oldid=177292 * Dragoneater67 * (+1) /* RATES */ 07:28:12 [[User talk:NeurosamaLover]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177294&oldid=177293 * Dragoneater67 * (+0) /* RATES */ 07:30:39 [[User:Dragoneater67]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177295&oldid=177234 * Dragoneater67 * (+4) /* but really... */ 08:17:44 [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177296&oldid=175808 * Dragoneater67 * (+218) 08:25:11 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:36:33 [[User:Dragoneater67/wipwipwip/67 machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177297 * Dragoneater67 * (+410) created new wip esolang 09:02:45 [[User:Dragoneater67/wipwipwip/67 machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177298&oldid=177297 * Dragoneater67 * (+423) 09:03:49 [[User:Dragoneater67/wipwipwip/67 machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177299&oldid=177298 * Dragoneater67 * (+0) /* Infinite counter */ 09:54:42 [[User:Dragoneater67/wipwipwip/67 machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177300&oldid=177299 * Dragoneater67 * (+747) /* Interpreter */ add c++ 09:56:45 [[User:Dragoneater67/wipwipwip/67 machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177301&oldid=177300 * Dragoneater67 * (+1) /* Python */ 09:57:09 [[User:Dragoneater67/wipwipwip/67 machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177302&oldid=177301 * Dragoneater67 * (+0) /* C++ */ 09:58:00 [[User:Dragoneater67/wipwipwip/67 machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177303&oldid=177302 * Dragoneater67 * (+1) /* Interpreter */ 10:07:11 -!- chloetax has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:07:42 -!- chloetax has joined. 10:45:47 [[Template:Stub]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177304&oldid=174485 * Qazwsxplm * (+11) 10:46:22 [[Template:Stub]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177305&oldid=177304 * Qazwsxplm * (+5) 10:59:33 -!- ehmry has changed nick to emery. 11:03:07 [[Esoteric programming language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177306&oldid=174249 * Qazwsxplm * (+45) /* History */ 11:04:14 -!- emery has changed nick to ehmry. 11:57:21 [[Bobotw]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177307 * Qazwsxplm * (+3378) Created page with "'''Bobotw''' is [[Bottles of beer on the wall]] but just numbers. Designed by [[User:Qazwsxplm]]. ==Examples== ===One time [[Cat Program]]=== 
 10
===[[Cat Program]]=== 
 6798
===[[Hello World|HELLOWORLD]]=== 
 24900171313599407832425897376933
11:59:03  [[Bottles of beer on the wall]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177308&oldid=128272 * Qazwsxplm * (+47) 
11:59:56  [[Bobotw]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177309&oldid=177307 * Qazwsxplm * (+13) /* Will It Work? */
12:00:43  [[Bobotw]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177310&oldid=177309 * Qazwsxplm * (+0) /* Categories */
12:01:36 -!- ^[ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
12:02:25  [[Bobotw]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177311&oldid=177310 * Qazwsxplm * (+31) 
12:12:56  [[One Time Cat]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177312&oldid=173545 * Qazwsxplm * (+24) /* $+-? */
12:13:34 -!- ^[ has joined.
12:52:31  Hi
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13:26:40  [[User:Dragoneater67/wipwipwip]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177313&oldid=177144 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+2) 
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14:11:02  [[12 machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177314 * Mrtli08 * (+376) Created page with "(NOTE: This page is user-editable, but do not add/remove commands, you can adjust the commands little but just make programs) 12 machine is a language with only the commands 1 and 2, based off [[Bitwise Cyclic Tag]]. 1 goes 2 instructions forward if the end of the sta
15:15:24  `olist 1340
15:15:27  olist : shachaf oerjan Sgeo boily nortti b_jonas Noisytoot
15:51:03  [[User:Dragoneater67/wipwipwip]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177315&oldid=177313 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+11) 
15:58:30  Vibecoding challenge 2 is live: https://lobste.rs/s/cyavky/vibecoding_challenge_2_five_feathers
15:59:07  Feeling extremely misanthropic today. This isn't quite as bad as when COVID-19 started, but it's up there. Not a great weekend for empathy.
16:27:16  [[Bobotw]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177316&oldid=177311 * Aadenboy * (-16) remove unnecessary header
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18:26:44  [[User:Aadenboy/]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177317&oldid=177108 * Aadenboy * (+1129) some pointer interactions. I think this might work? would need to explore it some more
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21:29:40  [[ZeroGrid2D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177318&oldid=177291 * Aadenboy * (+3) /* Execution Rules */ nest lists
21:50:55  Good Night
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22:29:35  [[User:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177319&oldid=177107 * Aadenboy * (+194) /* ESOLANGS */ replace [[Countable]] example program
22:34:32  [[User talk:A()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177320&oldid=177273 * A() * (+264) 
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22:44:04  [[Esolang:Trilime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177321&oldid=174501 * Aadenboy * (+8) bold + clarify
22:47:28  [[User:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177322&oldid=177319 * Aadenboy * (+3) wrong name
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2026-03-03:

00:13:18  [[Righght]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177323&oldid=177254 * Cool Bungle * (+13) 
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06:16:03  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * PhatikChand *  New user account
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08:45:38  [[Where is my esolang?]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177324&oldid=172932 * Cleverxia * (+1346) /* Examples */
09:51:52  [[User talk:SDGL4RNG]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177325&oldid=173477 * Yoyolin0409 * (+91) 
10:06:44  [[Plea]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177326&oldid=177133 * UnavgAustralian * (+38) Update the Hello World example
10:22:28  [[12 machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177327&oldid=177314 * Dragoneater67 * (+35) BETTER FORMATTING
10:25:04  [[12 machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177328&oldid=177327 * Dragoneater67 * (+56) computational class
10:29:36  [[Template:Stub]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177329&oldid=177305 * Ractangle * (-16) this ain't mockupedia, man
10:33:03  [[Bottles of beer on the wall]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177330&oldid=177308 * Ractangle * (-46) there was really no need to just scream at out face that this is long
10:33:55  [[One Time Cat]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177331&oldid=177312 * Ractangle * (-24) ok that was definitely uneasary
10:34:52  Hi *
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11:03:32  [[One Time Cat]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177332&oldid=177331 * Dragoneater67 * (+31) /* C */
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11:34:33  [[Subtract]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177333 * C0ffee * (+723) Created page with "'''Substract''' is a stack-based language.  == commands == {| class="wikitable" |- ! command !! description |- | ! || push 1. |- | - || pop a, pop b, push b-a. |- | : || duplicates the top of the stack. |- | [ || jump past the matching ] if the top of the stack is 0. |- 
11:34:57  [[Subtract]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177334&oldid=177333 * C0ffee * (+1) forgot to type s
11:37:41  [[User:C0ffee]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177335&oldid=158103 * C0ffee * (+15) 
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13:00:38  [[Talk:Emmental]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177336&oldid=172804 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+675) /* Someone actually needs to develop an Emmental interpreter in Emmental */
13:34:47  [[Subtract]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177337&oldid=177334 * Cleverxia * (+923) formatting, capitalizaion, intepreter
13:54:15  [[User:Cleverxia]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177338&oldid=176980 * Cleverxia * (+101) /* Current Esolangs I've created */
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15:11:45  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177339&oldid=176562 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+55) /* Phase 1 */ chars are signed(???)
15:18:10  [[ ]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177340&oldid=176841 * Dragoneater67mobile * (-7) golfing
15:45:26  [[ZecZec]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177341&oldid=177286 * BODOKE2801e * (-4) /* Truth-machine */  unnecessary end
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15:51:50  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177342&oldid=177341 * BODOKE2801e * (+33) /* Fibonacci numbers */
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16:29:29  [[User:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177343&oldid=177322 * Aadenboy * (+2984) some commentary on my drafts
16:45:51  [[Translated CSharp/Horribly Translated Page]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177344&oldid=131606 * BODOKE2801e * (+90) 
17:17:35  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * KnowItAfterYou *  New user account
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17:53:23  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177345&oldid=177193 * KnowItAfterYou * (+206) /* Introductions */
17:53:44  [[User:KnowItAfterYou]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177346 * KnowItAfterYou * (+100) Created page with "I can, do I?, write in english, sure?, but speak spanish.  I will create a joke languaje soon... ..."
17:57:05  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177347&oldid=177339 * Aadenboy * (+168) tt is a deprecated tag
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21:07:42  Good Night *
21:22:49  [[Iterate/Loop algebra]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177348&oldid=175499 * Aadenboy * (+9) 
21:23:20  [[Iterate/Loop algebra]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177349&oldid=177348 * Aadenboy * (+3) whoops
21:24:44  [[Iterate/Loop algebra]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177350&oldid=177349 * Aadenboy * (+24) 
21:48:06  Hmm, has there ever been a system of magic that is driven by disbelief? Disbelieve something strongly enough and the world will prove you wrong? :-P
22:25:25  dunno, I only read a few of Terry Pratchett's books
22:27:55  The closest I can think of is that Pratchett has hydrophobes that repel water, who have to be brought up on a strict diet of dehydrated water. And, perhaps vaguely related, Anoia, Goddess of Things That Get Stuck in Drawers.
22:28:58  (Not really related at all, but my brain remembered it under this prompt.)
22:29:59  Discworld has some magic that is powered by belief
22:30:38  which is the opposite of what you asked for and is probably easier
22:30:44  but that's why I was reminded of Pratchett
22:32:15  I mean he played around with such concepts. There's the vampire story...
22:34:27  The vampires in that family were brought up studying all sorts of religious symbols in an attempt to make them ineffectual. The story ends with the vampires recognizing those symbols everywhere and experiencing a ridiculous amount of pain and losing a fight.
22:36:08  The opposite thing would probably allure more to Smullyan than to Pratchett :P
22:36:32  (Note that in the vampire story, belief ultimately won.)
22:52:55  int-e: Szatmári Sándor has a story about a cold reader who claims, for work purposes only, that he has oracular powers. He doesn't actually has such powers at the start of the story, instead he gives vague horoscope style advice that his clients think match them. To men with an unrequited love, he tells that the girl will love them back if the client completely abandons his desires to the girl. If the 
22:53:01  client returns to complain, that's proof that he still desires the girl, so he never has to pay the money back for a failed prediction.
22:53:35  cute
22:53:35  This might count as a minor non-supernatural example for something that works on disbelief.
22:54:33  Can you cleanly separate belief and disbelief? As in, is there a clear difference between disbelief in something existing, and belief in something not existing?
22:54:35  But yeah, in any case, at least the first Pratchett examples I can think of all involve belief making the thing that you think should be, to be, rather than nature proving you _wrong_.
22:56:47  There's the God of Evolution that's maybe some kind of a special case, if not exactly that.
22:57:49  Nobody believes in him, and he himself is an atheist, but it's explained that he believes in evolution as a concept strongly enough to exist because of that. Or something along those lines.
22:58:33  the insect guy? great punchline...
23:01:55  I don't know if the Auditors are in somewhere in this general conceptual region as well, since AIUI they don't really believe in any of the things humans do (and are actively trying to get rid of them because it's untidy), but maybe their disbelief doesn't really play into whether those things are real or not.
23:01:56  SMBC sometimes has evolution or nature as a character, in that sometimes human characters speak with her just like they speak with god
23:05:00  like https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/evolution-8
23:06:42  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177351&oldid=177342 * BODOKE2801e * (+26) /* Notes */
23:08:17  [[ZecZec]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177352&oldid=177351 * BODOKE2801e * (-4) /* Notes */
23:11:21  [[Truth-machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177353&oldid=177224 * BODOKE2801e * (+158) /* Zeno */
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23:16:34  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177354&oldid=177352 * BODOKE2801e * (-28) /* Truth-machine */

2026-03-04:

00:01:57 -!- Sgeo has joined.
00:19:35  [[Neb's Art]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177355&oldid=161702 * HecknTarnation * (+0) Fixed minor error
00:44:43  https://www.brics.dk/RS/05/1/BRICS-RS-05-1.pdf Interesting paper found during research: there's an infinite r.e. set of fixed-point lambda terms! Moreover the decision procedure could be implemented by a lambda-calculus compiler.
00:52:27  Interesting (but misstated; according to the abstract they show that the set of standard fixed point combinators is r.e., while the set of non-standard fixed point combinators is not)
01:04:36  Maybe not so interesting. It's pretty obvious that you can enumerate terms Phi with Phi x = x (Phi x) because both terms and conversions are r.e.
01:09:51  They make the claim that the complement of the set of non-standard fixed point combinators is r.e. and I don't believe it, because you'd have to enumerate terms Phi where Phi f applies f a number of times to bottom, and bottoms are not r.e. (that would decide the halting problem)
01:10:04  a technical report, not peer reviewed, mistakes happen
01:11:10  At least I think it's not reviewed? Could be wrong. Reviewers miss stuff too :)
01:15:39  [[User:PkmnQ/Wrong Wrap]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177356&oldid=139156 * PkmnQ * (-1145) I'm reusing this name for a new esolang
02:25:26  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177357&oldid=176430 * Rombito * (+2) 
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03:16:13  [[Subtract]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177358&oldid=177337 * Dragoneater67 * (-6) 
03:29:33  [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177359&oldid=177353 * BODOKE2801e * (+1) /* >||< [[!!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177360&oldid=158496 * BODOKE2801e * (+227) 
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05:10:20  [[Lehbar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177361 * BODOKE2801e * (+1395) unfinished
05:42:13 -!- somefan has set topic: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language discussion, development, and deployment! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://logs.esolags.org/ | Need an admin action done on the wiki? https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Ais523.
05:42:22 -!- somefan has set topic: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language discussion, development, and deployment! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://logs.esolangs.org/ | Need an admin action done on the wiki? https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Ais523.
05:43:07  i think that should be protected
05:52:23  [[Righght]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177362&oldid=177323 * Cool Bungle * (+8) 
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07:55:25  somefan: we used to change the "discussion, development and deployment" part often, and there are enough active users that we can quickly revert and possibly quiet if someone tries to change the topic to something inappropriate
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10:28:06  [[OoOoOM]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177363&oldid=170087 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-775) /* Computational class */
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11:41:29  [[Brainhash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177364&oldid=170467 * Kaveh Yousefi * (-12) Amended the interpreter documentation's grammar.
11:42:08  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177365&oldid=177210 * Yoyolin0409 * (+6) /* Truth-machine */
11:43:26  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177366&oldid=177365 * Yoyolin0409 * (+21) /* OOP examples */
11:52:48  [[Rickrolling]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177367&oldid=176495 * Yoyolin0409 * (+0) 
11:53:04  [[Rickrolling]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177368&oldid=177367 * Yoyolin0409 * (-6) 
11:53:17  Hi
11:57:01  [[Smasnug ABrainFIsHCHIHqFRSI9efuck+-~B2D]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177369&oldid=173345 * Yoyolin0409 * (-16247) /* Python(WIP) */
11:57:14  [[Smasnug ABrainFIsHCHIHqFRSI9efuck+-~B2D]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177370&oldid=177369 * Yoyolin0409 * (+4) /* Interpreter */
12:23:14  [[SimpleEnglish]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177371 * Mrtli08 * (+598) Created page with "SimpleEnglish is just english. 
  ===commands=== NOTE: Things inside () just hold a name. 
 Declare a variable called (name). >> var (name) = 0; (For example Declare a variable called x. turns into var x = 0;) Set variable (name) to (value). >> (name) = 0; In
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13:03:03  [[The bluetooth device is ready to pair]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177372&oldid=174649 * Yoyolin0409 * (+25) /* Hello world program(string) */
13:04:17  [[The bluetooth device is ready to pair]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177373&oldid=177372 * Yoyolin0409 * (-7) /* Instructions */
13:52:23  [[Talk:Lehbar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177374 * Mrtli08 * (+120) Created page with "huh?! we need proof for turing for dis --~~~~"
14:15:53  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * SchoolAccount *  New user account
14:19:19  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177375&oldid=177345 * SchoolAccount * (+145) 
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15:55:41  [[Talk:AIGenLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177376 * RikoMamaBala * (+246) Created page with "I just wanted to make an interpreter for this language, and I stumbled upon this question: is indentation on if statements and loops mandatory or is it optional? --[[User:RikoMamaBala|RikoMa]][[Talk:RikoMamaBala|maBala]] 15:53, 4 March 2026 (UTC)"
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18:00:45  [[Talk:AIGenLang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177377&oldid=177376 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+138) 
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22:17:06  G'Night     😴
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23:13:15  does anyone here know of experiments in using a game controller as an input method for writing computer programs? (ideally those in fairly normal programming languages, rather than needing to invent one for the purpose)
23:13:35  I've been wondering about trying to write programs during long/bumpy car/bus journeys and what it would be like
23:48:47  [[Talk:Lehbar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177378&oldid=177374 * PkmnQ * (+233) 
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23:59:08  I don't know of anything that can't be argued into an a11y case study rather than a serious hypothesis about code quality or speed of input. I also can't figure out how to disqualify the experience of typing TI-BASIC on a TI-84 in the back of a turbulent yellow school bus.

2026-03-05:

00:12:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
00:40:16  I think I had heard of experiments of programming languages with game controllers before, although I do not remember now what they are.
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00:44:39  Separate mode for command mode and insert mode like vi, might be one thing to help, maybe.
00:51:52  Yep. That's a feature of the editors I'm thinking about, from games like Actraiser or Portal 2.
00:53:52  I wonder how well uxntal would work. Depending how many buttons on the game controller (uxn itself defines eight, the same as Game Boy or NES/Famicom). 
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01:16:11  this is definitely an accessibility question, I think
01:17:47  How many buttons does your game controller have?
01:22:53  zzo38: this is mostly a hypothetical, but I could obtain one with quite a lot of buttons if necessary
01:23:40  a typical modern game controller has four shoulder buttons, a 4-directional d-pad, four face buttons, two analog sticks that can be pushed in to serve as an extra button, and some special-purpose buttons that would be hard to use for general input
01:25:36  I'm mentally already at the bar, speedrunning. I'm imagining entering my name in Zelda 3 with a SNES controller.
01:39:24  the game controller I currently own is a generic one designed to be able to emulate a playstation, xbox or gamecube controller
01:39:40  although I haven't used it in a while
01:40:30  (it also has a button to cause the analog sticks to be quantized as though they were d-pads, in case you want to emulate an older controller type like a game boy's)
01:41:05  Does it not already have a d-pad?
01:43:11  yes, you can use that instead
01:43:17  but the analog stick is in a better place to press
01:43:18  I have a similar pad. A Logitech USB controller. I've got like four of them; they were popular at the time.
01:43:20  the left one, at least
01:44:17  I have realised that probably I write more comments than I do actual code, in my projects, so the main problem might be to have an efficient way to input text using a game controller
01:44:30  the standard "move a cursor along a grid of letters" works to some extent but is extremely slow
01:47:56  If using it for a programming language, then possibly a separate mode might be used for ordinary text than for the programming code syntax. Comments is not the only things where you might do that though; there is also e.g. character strings (although some programs will not use many character strings)
01:50:47  and many programs that do use character strings aren't storing human-readable text in them (although some are)
01:51:34  Yes, that is also a valid consideration
01:52:17  I feel like for program code, something based around strong typing and syntax similar to that of Java methods would be helpful, so that you could get a fairly list of methods that were applicable to the type of the expression you had written so far
01:53:35  actually I think an Emacs-like modal interface would work better than a vi-like one (the difference is that vi uses keypresses to change between modes, whereas an Emacs-like interface holds a key to enter commands and releases it to go back to the equivalent of insert mode)
01:55:30  for English text, I suspect the best method involves choosing the word you want from a list of predictions, with the ability to enter an approximation to reorder the list based on a combination of prediction and similarity to the approximation
01:55:52  most input methods that I've seen seem to boil down to that
01:56:10  Chording would be another idea, although I do not know how well that works with a game controller
01:56:24  mobile phones use it, and most CJK input methods work like that too
01:56:26  (for the purpose of entering English text, I mean, rather than in general)
01:56:44  chording works very well on a game controller as long as you aren't chording two face buttons or two opposite d-pad directions
01:57:34  (the opposite directions are often blocked in hardware or software, whereas all game controllers I'm aware have hardware/software capable of chording face buttons but it's a physically difficult button combination to press)
01:57:35  Yes, but is it enough combinations when you exclude those combinations that don't work as well?
01:59:05  it should be – if you exclude diagonals on the d-pad because they're hard to press accurately, you have 4×4×2⁴ combinations that chord a d-pad direction and face button and any number of shoulder buttons
02:00:41  I feel like probably using only two of the shoulder buttons would be desirable if aiming for input speed, though, and not chording face buttons with d-pad because you would have to be careful to release both before pressing the next input
02:01:12  Some might be needed to switch modes (I think the Emacs will not work due to needing to enter different kind of text; in some cases the mode will switch automatically based on what command is entered in the program, but sometimes it is necessary to do so manually).
02:01:29  (If you have four shoulder buttons then it is possible to use other one for such a purpose, I suppose)
02:02:00  so 8×2² which is 32 – enough for 26 letters and a few special cases (and the more difficult-to-enter combinations could use other buttons)
02:03:01  I think this is totally doable and might actually be faster than a keyboard once you get used to it – but it also seems like it would be difficult to learn
02:03:09  There is 5-bit code such as Baudot code
02:03:32  because the input mechanism would have to be learned from scratch, it would make sense to try to get it right first time, rather than ending up with a QWERTY situation
02:04:16  Yes, that seem it would be a good idea, but it might be difficult to do that.
02:05:12 * ais523 looks up prior art
02:05:28  apparently some games have used 8 analog stick directions × 4 face buttons to produce a 32-option keyboard
02:06:10  that's a clever idea to do chording, you don't have to worry about accidental orthogonal presses while trying to hit the diagonals because the position of the stick only matters when the face button is pressed
02:08:39  I am not sure whether 8 is the right number of directions, an analog stick can theoretically distinguish between a very large number of directions but if you have too many a human can't hit them accurately
02:09:49  one game I played a lot when I was younger made diagonal inputs easier to hit by using one of the shoulder buttons as a way to filter out orthogonal inputs, so that only diagonal ones would be accepted
02:09:53  More than eight is probably too difficult, and possibly more than four might be difficult (although maybe not); I think using buttons is probably easier, even though there are less combinations (but diagonals will be possible)
02:10:14  that might mix well with an "8 directions on the analog stick" approach – you could have ambiguous inputs be interpreted as orthogonal if not holding the button and diagonal if holding the button
02:10:42  Yes, that might work
02:11:09  (although that is for when directions are needed, e.g. in a game; for text input it does not seem relevant since you can use the button combinations directly instead)
02:14:51  Gonna take this question to the bar and see if folks have any interesting examples. Back in a few hours. Peace.
02:27:22 * ais523 measures their own typing speed with QWERTY, as a baseline
02:27:29  it's around 450 characters per minute, it seems
02:27:43  so 7.5 characters a second
02:27:49  it may be hard to match that with a game controller input
02:27:57  (this was tested on easy, common words)
02:28:36  this is much faster than the average person but considerably slower than people who actively aim for typing speed records, which seems about right
02:30:29  matching that on a game controller seems difficult, especially if chording is required, but maybe not impossible
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03:26:13  [[Airline Food]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177379&oldid=99893 * BODOKE2801e * (+288) 
03:37:23  [[Input hello world or else without a quine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177380&oldid=177284 * BODOKE2801e * (-24) /* Interpreters */
03:40:50  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177381&oldid=177354 * BODOKE2801e * (+191) /* Syntax */ MEHR
03:42:36  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177382&oldid=177381 * BODOKE2801e * (+64) /* FizzBuzz */ MEHR
03:43:51  [[Self-interpreter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177383&oldid=171185 * BODOKE2801e * (+37) /* Languages known for self-interpretation */
03:56:54  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177384&oldid=177382 * BODOKE2801e * (+543) 
03:57:14  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177385&oldid=177384 * BODOKE2801e * (+2) /* Notes */
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05:32:05  Folks at the bar were interested but didn't have many examples. A couple folks mentioned Super Mario Maker (2), which is a good example, if buggy.
05:35:06  I got a 2:05 in-game time on Super Metroid, which is not great IMO. I did get first-try mockball into early supers, though.
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06:13:59  Which do you think are some rules of Magic: the Gathering, or of some other game (chess, Pokemon, etc) that will only be significant very rarely that a puzzle can be made up that involves it in a way possibly other than what the rule was intended for?
06:16:31  (I have tried to do such things with Hero Hearts, revealing that some things documented as invariant weren't; e.g. the "Explain Death" option is not supposed to affect the behaviour of the game (a replay list is supposed to have the same meaning whether or not this option is enabled, and regardless of what speed it is played back at), but I made a puzzle that depends on it.)
06:17:33  (My implementation of Hero Hearts does not emulate this bug, nor does it emulate some of the related bugs, although some bugs that do not violate these invariants are emulated if they do affect the behaviour of the game.)
07:05:52  zzo38: Yu-Gi-Oh has some rules like that but they're convoluted enough that I don't really understand how they work (and some of them may be subjective)
07:06:33  it used to have a rule that you cannot perform an action that creates an infinite loop, which some people exploited to win by constructing a gamestate where almost any action by the opponent would create an infinite loop, forcing them to pass their turn
07:07:24  and then the rule was changed to match the situation if a loop gets created by a game rule rather than an action, which is that the judge moves the card most responsible for the loop (which is subjective and hard to define) into the graveyard
07:07:56  anyway, I should go to bed (thanks for the discussion/ideas korvo)
07:08:00  night
07:08:12  and thanks for the ideas zzo38, too
07:08:24  ais523: Good night!
07:08:30  it feels like this should be doable but will take some work and practice
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07:11:23  That rule for loops doesn't seem a very good rule for infinite loops; the rule in Magic: the Gathering looks like better to me
07:15:05  (How commonly is rule 731 used in Magic: the Gathering puzzles?) (Although, rule 731.1c says tournaments use different rules for loops)
07:18:39  (Even the rules in Magic: the Gathering are not perfect; one change I would make is to distinguish between implicit draws and explicit draws, with different rules relating to them (and different rules cause each kind), but in both cases the final result of the game will be a draw)
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08:01:44  [[Input hello world or else without a quine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177386&oldid=177380 * Ractangle * (+24) that is still output only
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10:41:45  I have a vivid recollection of having seen a video of some sort of novel input mechanism, years back, when predictive text input still felt kind of novel, but I can't recall any of the detail so not sure how amenable that would be for gamepad input.
10:44:47  Oh, Dasher!
10:44:51  `thanks Gemini
10:44:54  Thanks, Gemini. Themini.
10:45:02  The mini, heh.
10:45:08  (Found it in an AI-assisted way.)
10:45:29  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasher_(software)
10:46:08  I _guess_ you could use that approach with a gamepad, since it only requires a two-dimensional pointing mechanism of some kind (so a single analog stick would suffice), but it'd be throwing away most of the capabilities of one.
10:48:10  was this the inspiration for flappy bird :P
10:48:52  I just remembered it because it was so visual. Whoosh.
10:48:54  Moin
10:49:37  Apparently (at least according to the 2006 paper) imagined as a text input mechanism for brain-computer interfaces, which sounds plausible enough.
10:51:49  If you've got two eyes, two hands, and a gamepad with two analog sticks, surely you could handle an input system with two independent Dasher squares, say one for individual letters and one for predicted words.
10:51:59  Perhaps presented on some sort of head-mounted display, one per eye.
10:52:46  that's a lot of equipment to replace a *check notes* keyboard
10:58:05  AIUI, you're not supposed to *write* programs any more, anyway, you're supposed to just direct "agentic" things that do it for you, so surely you just need to slap a speech-to-text/text-to-speech interface on top of one of those, though.
10:58:16  Okay, on a crowded bus maybe that won't make you the most popular person.
10:59:17  Dasher is a cute idea, but I imagine that its cognitive load is way too substantial for using it for anything serious. (The downside of using adaptive predictions, as I believe they do, is that you can't learn fixed input sequences.)
11:01:59  Re: AI. https://bsky.app/profile/ianboudreau.com/post/3mgc2aaktak2s resonated strongly with me.
11:03:12  (Though if I were to express my own sentiments I'd probably dwell on the subsidy aspect of it too, and the anti-human attitude behind it all ("People? Where WE are going we won't need people!")
11:08:22  Like, the outcome will be terrible if this comes crashing down (maybe 2026, maybe 2027...), but I believe the outcome will be worse if any of this shit starts working (the AGI dream, the singularity...). And not because of alignment problems, but because of who is doing this and how they'll use it.
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12:41:38  ais523: There's an Atari 2600 game called BASIC programming, but it only technically matches your question. You are typing the command and giving commands not the normal ATARI 2600 joystick, but on a pair of controllers that each have 12 buttons in a telephone keypad arrangements. These can be used for multiple different games with printed legend overlay sheets, so they're technically game controllers. 
12:41:44  Normally two separate players use the two controllers, but for BASIC programming they're used by one player.
12:44:58  ais523: If you're aiming for a bus then I don't think you can count the full range that you mentioned, as in four shoulder buttons, two joysticks, a d-pad and four face buttons. I don't think you can reasonably hold both such a controller and read a display on a bus. You can get close with a Nintendo Switch or Switch 2, but you'll only get two shoulder buttons, not four.
12:47:32  Also, even just that, two controllers, only works if you're sitting on a bus, I don't think you can reasonably use the normal range of two controllers while standing. 
12:48:50  If you want to write programs while standing on a bus, one of the commercial programmable calculators could work. Their keypad is normally designed to be typed on with one hand while the calculator is sitting on a desk, but they also work for typing with your thumb with the calculator is handheld, that's just slower. 
12:51:17  The TI-92 is an exception, it has an unusual large keyboard that's bigger than you can use with one hand. I don't really know what it's optimized for, as in how you're supposed to operate it. I've seen a working specimen in real life very long ago, but I don't think I operated it, or only for a very short time.
12:52:08  If you just want to "manage" your "agents", maybe a Tinder-like interface for proposed changes could suffice ;)
12:52:09  There exist various hardware designed specifically to work as chorded keyboards, both ones held in one hand and ones held in two hands.
12:52:56  Btw Atari 2600 Basic programming is very limited, but that's because the Atari 2600 has very little RAM.
12:53:37  `? memory
12:53:41  memory? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:53:47  I wonder if they made a better version for the Atari 5200 .
13:11:52  I've also only very briefly seen a TI-92. It wasn't particularly popular at school, I imagine mostly because it had a CAS, and therefore it was forbidden to use as a calculator in exams. We "all" just had TI-86s (the school ran a discount bulk order thing), except a few people who already had a TI-85 and continued to use it, and one or two oddball HP RPN calculator users.
13:14:21  TI-86 had come out in 1996, I think I entered the level of school where a graphing calculator was expected (years 7-12 if numbered consecutively starting from 1) in 1997. So it was the hot new thing.
13:15:41  Actually it must've been 1996 already, because I got out of there in 2002. Off-by-one errors.
13:19:12  fizzie: I never went to any schooling where a handheld graphing or programmable calculator was expected. Only a minority of students had anything like that. Programming and drawing graphs on desktop PCs in a computer lab seating twenty-something people was expected occasionally.
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13:21:11  We had a sorta slightly "math-focused" line, maybe that accounted for it.
13:21:28  The teacher had a slide projector attachment for their TI-85.
13:22:02  oh advanced optics
13:22:12  As in, a bulky transparent LCD display that you could put on top of an overhead projector (that you would put slides on) to show the display mirrored on the wall.
13:22:41  You couldn't plug it into a regular TI-85, it had to be a special model.
13:23:19  yeah, a special display that doesn't melt from the projector
13:23:34  They'd written a TI-BASIC program that made like a stage curtain kind of an effect followed by a " presents" box.
13:23:38  They were _very_ proud of that.
13:24:26  I thought that's the part that you do with hand-drawn transparency slide stop motion
13:24:44  before you put the calculator screen on
13:24:52  (Also I'm not sure why I'm defaulting to a gender-neutral pronoun here, there was no ambiguity about that. Probably from writing interview feedback recently.)
13:25:35  (I guess Finnish only has the one singular third-person pronoun, and this was a Finnish person I'm talking about, could be that too.)
13:25:58  Well, it's more impressive when it's Computer Graphics™.
13:26:12  hopefully they won't mind
13:26:50  can you connect that projector to the students' TI-86 calculator so they can show stuff projected to the whole class too?
13:27:20  ah no, you already answered
13:27:25  "You couldn't plug it into a regular TI-85"
13:28:15  Yeah, sadly no. It didn't do it over the link cable protocol.
13:28:34  Which as I recall is kind of an interesting protocol as well, it doesn't have a fixed baud rate, it's an async kind of a thing.
13:35:58  Yeah, assuming I can trust Gemini (but this description _sounds_ like the one I've seen but couldn't find), it's a bit of an oddity in that there's no clock line as such, it's a three-wire protocol with ground and two data lines ("red" and "white"). To send a bit, one side pulls either the red (0) or white (1) line down, and then the other end acknowledges that by pulling the _other_ line down
13:36:00  (which the sender waits for).
13:36:16  So it runs at whatever speed the two endpoints involved can manage to run this process.
13:36:55  anyway, for the original question, something where the keypad looks like a good calculator keypad but has more capability to detect multiple keys pressed at the same time could work as chorded input on the bus I think
13:36:55  And the calculator ROM code just bit-bangs it out with the Z80 CPU instead of using an UART or something.
13:37:00  for one handed typing that is
13:37:11  one thumb handheld
13:37:34  you'd need one of those chorded palm thingies if you want to use multiple fingers to type
14:20:14  oh, it's "long/bumpy car/bus journeys", not short public transport ride to school, so sitting down can be assumed. then two controllers is fine.
14:20:23  or like two hands on a controller
14:20:39  you might even be able to affix the display on the seat in front of you
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14:33:41  fizzie: that wire protocol does sound a lot like async electronics (which I've worked a lot with at a previous job) – the usual protocol I would use for that in async programming uses three data wires (one for which the sender changes the logic level to send a 0, one for which the sender changes the logic level to send a 1, and one which the receiver changes the logic level to acknowledge). but that's an interesting way of reducing the number of wires 
14:33:42  required
14:34:17  (it does seem a little inefficient because after sending a bit, you have to unsend it and then wait for the caller to acknowledge the unsend, because you can't visibly pull down a wire that someone else is also pulling down)
14:50:02  you've probably seen the recent video about another interesting async electronic protocol: https://www.linusakesson.net/hardware/frontpanel/index.php
14:50:41  I think technically that's async from one side only, whereas the link cable between calculators is async both ways
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15:35:10  the problem with async in practice is that there's always at least one part of the circuit where wire propagation delay matters (in the sense that if it's too large or too small the circuit malfunctions) – there's a theorem that limits the computational class of what you can do without that to something obviously useless
15:35:44  of course, it's possible to manufacture circuits like that in practice, but it means that one of the simplifying assumptions you'd normally use no longer holds
15:35:48  (this is async hardware, specifically)
15:44:41  sure, but we don't want fully async hardware, just an async interface between two hardware that do have reasonable timing limits inside
15:45:11  and that is possible, it just needs more wires than typical interfaces, and has a bit of overhead
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15:46:47  Yeah, the TI protocol is a four-step one. Sender pulls one line down and waits; receiver acks it by pulling the other line down and waits; sender reacts to the ack by letting the first line float back high and waits; receiver reacts by letting the other line also go back up; and that finally signals to the sender it can start transmitting the next bit.
15:47:00  so you use it where the few extra wires and the overhead doesn't matter too much, but you want portability between all sorts of different hardware, and possibly software control without too much of a specific controller
15:48:53  I think this is so that you can drive this from software on a PC where the operating system can sometimes take control from the communications software for long time unpredictably
15:49:32  without needing extra communications hardware or special support in the operating system
15:52:14  There were also various more or less kosher ways of wiring the link cable to a PC, including the "$4 serial link" https://www.ticalc.org/images/cables/seriallinkpic.gif , the "$5 parallel link", and for the posh, the PIClink (which uses a PIC16F84 microcontroller to translate between the calculator and RS232 in a way compatible with TI's official software).
15:52:23  And of course also the official overpriced solution from TI.
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16:44:30  [[Lehbar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177387&oldid=177361 * BODOKE2801e * (-355) /* Syntax */
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19:55:27  [[Rotator]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177388&oldid=164777 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+7762) Introduced an examples section comprehending two incipial members, added an interpreter implementation in Common Lisp, and modified the page category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
20:10:52  [[Rickrolling]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177389&oldid=177368 * Hotcrystal0 * (+27) adding another category
20:16:09  Good Night     😴
20:36:48  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Frog *  New user account
20:47:03  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * JanitorRaus *  New user account
20:52:52  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177390&oldid=177375 * JanitorRaus * (+262) /* Introductions */
20:55:29  [[BytePusher]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177391&oldid=167714 * JanitorRaus * (+14) Replace dead mega link for Langton's Ant. For those who were missing this, enjoy!
21:05:33  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177392&oldid=177390 * Frog * (+162) /* Introductions */
21:05:49  [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177393&oldid=175502 * Frog * (+237) /* if (x == 0) { code } */
21:09:30  [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177394&oldid=177393 * Frog * (-10) /* if (x == 0) { code } */
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21:25:58  I just suddenly realised that a search engine could detect adverts, or even cookie popups, as a method of filtering out websites that people probably don't want in their search results
21:26:15  meanwhile, I've been doing research into how chorded keyboards normally work
21:26:46  I don't think it's the greatest fit for a games console, they mostly rely on all possible pressed/non-pressed combinations
21:27:31  I also looked into the keyboards that are used to set typing speed records, and they have a number of interesting differences from regular keyboards
21:28:35  mostly they're based around a grid system where you can press between the keys in order to press two adjacent keys simultaneously (to act as a virtual key in between), this is combined with chording to allow the fingers on each hand to type consonants / consonant clusters simultaneously
21:29:19  and the thumbs type the vowels, using a similar method but with only four states for each thumb (left key, right key, between the keys, or unpressed) to provide 15 different vowel clusters (or not at all to indicate no vowels)
21:30:12  the chords for the fingers are normally pressed in a roughly horizontal line, rather than having the fingers move upwards/downwards individually
21:30:34  and all this is combined with a dictionary to handle issues like "English actually has more than 15 different vowel clusters"
21:31:08  this seems difficult to replicate on a game controller but it might be possible to adopt some of the same techniques…
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21:37:40  ais523: typing speed records is probably not what you want to go for for programming, because in programming the bottleneck is usually not how fast you can type
21:37:51  b_jonas: indeed
21:38:21  but my thoughts were more along the lines of "the same techniques that are used to change normal-speed input methods into super-fast ones may change excessively slow ones into normal speed"
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23:28:59  [[Alkmini]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177395 * Arctenik * (+7501) Create article
23:31:42  [[Talk:Alkmini]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177396 * Arctenik * (+10008) Add compilation notes
23:36:08  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177397&oldid=177269 * Arctenik * (+14) /* A */ Add Alkmini
23:37:29  [[User:Arctenik]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177398&oldid=142078 * Arctenik * (+14) Add Alkmini

2026-03-06:

00:10:30  [[Lehbar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177399&oldid=177387 * BODOKE2801e * (-63) /* Syntax */
00:12:55 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
00:21:26  [[Rotator]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177400&oldid=177388 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+8) Improved the interpreter's type specifiers and code formatting.
01:06:17 -!- ais523 has joined.
01:30:31  [[FALSE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177401&oldid=163287 * BODOKE2801e * (+4) /* 99 Bottles of Beer */
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04:42:08  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177402&oldid=177385 * BODOKE2801e * (-19) 
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09:29:06  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Xdart *  New user account
09:37:32  Hi
10:05:29  [[X-EX.Load]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177403 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+2598) Created page with "'''X-EX.Load''' is a set of [[Underload]] "subsets", which are believed by their creator, [[User:Yayimhere]], to all be less powerful than Underload(though this is unconfirmed in certain cases). Each of the subsets have their own name. Each is defined by th
10:05:42  [[X-EX.Load]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177404&oldid=177403 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1) /* C_Load */
10:06:07  [[X-EX.Load]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177405&oldid=177404 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+11) /* Computational class */
11:09:17  [[X-EX.Load]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177406&oldid=177405 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+46) /* Computational class */
11:10:24  [[X-EX.Load]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177407&oldid=177406 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+28) /* Computational class */
12:05:44  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Pokemonnoob369 *  New user account
12:12:31  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177408&oldid=177392 * Pokemonnoob369 * (+153) /* Introductions */
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13:49:34  [[X-EX.Load]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177409&oldid=177407 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+57) /* C_Load */
13:50:06  [[X-EX.Load]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177410&oldid=177409 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1) /* P_Load */
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14:32:05  hi!
14:34:29  Good morning.
14:34:41  brb will setup SASL
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14:36:19  im back
14:37:46  Nice!
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17:24:31  [[X-EX.Load]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177411&oldid=177410 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+23) /* inP_Load */
17:31:43  [[Homunculus fallacy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177412&oldid=169384 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+4) /* Tricks and tips */
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17:32:12  [[Homunculus fallacy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177413&oldid=177412 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+23) /* Commands */
17:51:50  [[User:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177414&oldid=177343 * Aadenboy * (+245) /* interpreters */
17:52:58  [[User:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177415&oldid=177414 * Aadenboy * (+100) /* interpreters */ more stats actually
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19:30:15  [[StackPoint]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177416&oldid=169493 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+1011) Introduced an examples section comprehending two incipial members, added a hyperlink to my interpreter implementation on GitHub, modified the Unimplemented page category tag to Implemented, and supplemented two further tags.
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22:18:08  Good Night     😴
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2026-03-07:

02:33:47 -!- amby has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:35:02  Do we have a page on Cunningham's Game? Maybe there's a better-known name for it? Is it on-topic?
03:35:51  For what it's worth, this is the game played by repeatedly attempting to correct somebody, only to find that your correction it self incorrect. A chain of comments, increasingly varied and unhinged, which are slightly wrong.
03:36:41  For example, here's a start: This year, I'm growing peppers! My favorite is the *habanera*.
03:37:58  The oldest popular example I know of is 2005, Penny Arcade https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/02/04/linguaphiles-unite but I wouldn't be surprised if it arose on Usenet first.
03:41:39  I don't think it's an esolang
03:42:16  I've seen people do it on Reddit, and it's hard to tell whether the first incorrect correction is intentional or not (the others clearly are, though)
03:42:23  but I try to avoid Reddit nowadays
03:43:14  It's on my mind specifically because it seems to only arise on some specific forums. I just saw it on HN but I know that it's not something that happens on Lobsters, precisely because Lobsters wants to not be Reddit.
03:43:40  I've seen it on Imgur, which is Reddit-related. Also a variety of other websites. I haven't really been keeping track though.
04:01:06  man, all these websites hidden behind these javascript+cookie contraptions are annoying. I bet they're like the DRMs where they often don't let your intended customers access the website but doesn't really stop anyone that the website owners wanted to keep away.
04:06:31  as someone who occasionally wants to bulk download from websites, it hurts me
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04:50:15  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Iris500 *  New user account
06:10:00  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177417&oldid=177402 * BODOKE2801e * (+54) mehr
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09:01:49  [[telp moc gnirutty gnitir wrgnirts]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177418&oldid=174586 * PrySigneToFry * (+137) 
09:14:37  [[User:PrySigneToFry]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177419&oldid=176874 * PrySigneToFry * (+33) 
09:55:03  [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177420&oldid=177222 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+896) /* thoughts */ MathML really does NOT want me to see my incorrect mathematical proof
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10:24:28  [[User:Dragoneater67/wipwipwip/67 machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177421&oldid=177303 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+178) categorize
10:24:49  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Dragoneater67mobile *  moved [[User:Dragoneater67/wipwipwip/67 machine]] to [[67 machine]]
10:25:17  [[User:Dragoneater67]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177424&oldid=177295 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+30) 
10:27:49  [[((()))(((())))=5]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177425&oldid=176972 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+25) 
10:37:45  [[User:Dragoneater67/wipwipwip]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177426&oldid=177315 * Dragoneater67mobile * (-10) 
10:43:37  [[User:Dragoneater67/ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177427&oldid=175802 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+12) 
11:13:05  Hi
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12:16:57  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177428&oldid=177118 * InLuaIKnow * (+1337) /* Lua (made by User:InLuaIKnow) */
12:21:18  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177429&oldid=177428 * InLuaIKnow * (+48) 
12:26:54  [[Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177430&oldid=177394 * Frog * (-1) /* if (x == 0) { code } */
12:28:29  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177431&oldid=177429 * InLuaIKnow * (-90) 
12:52:10  [[Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177432&oldid=176868 * Widuruwana * (+193) Updated the Architecture & Memory Model section to reflect the most recent release
12:54:36  [[Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177433&oldid=177432 * Widuruwana * (+51) Updated confess and wonder descriptions to reflect latest release
12:55:37  [[Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177434&oldid=177433 * Widuruwana * (+43) Updated Fibonacci Sequence
12:56:47  [[Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177435&oldid=177434 * Widuruwana * (+6034) Added 99 Bottles of bear program
13:03:50  [[Talk:Ivory]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177436&oldid=176867 * Widuruwana * (+574) Replied to Dragoneater67mobile
13:04:44  [[Talk:Ivory]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177437&oldid=177436 * Widuruwana * (+5) fixed a minor wording error
13:08:03  [[Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177438&oldid=177435 * Widuruwana * (-26) Added Turing Machine Status to reflect recent release
13:21:44  [[Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177439&oldid=177438 * Corbin * (+29) Tagging as generated.
13:23:13  [[Talk:Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177440&oldid=177437 * Corbin * (+184) /* Generated by AI */ new section
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14:50:04  [[Talk:Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177441&oldid=177440 * Widuruwana * (-184) 
14:53:27  [[Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177442&oldid=177439 * Widuruwana * (-337) 
14:53:28  Wow, rude.
14:53:50  [[Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177443&oldid=177442 * Widuruwana * (-15) 
15:06:22  [[Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177444&oldid=177443 * Widuruwana * (-115) 
15:12:01  [[Ivory]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177445&oldid=177444 * Widuruwana * (-44) 
15:16:38  I think that this is a standard case of somebody using a bot (Claude, I think) and then trying to fix it up later. The first version of their GH README gives it away.
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15:20:03  [[Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177446&oldid=177445 * Widuruwana * (-61) 
15:23:09  LOL why does every commit to README.md add a new line at the end.
15:25:02  [[Ivory]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177447&oldid=177446 * Widuruwana * (-5) 
15:25:27  https://github.com/widuruwana/ivory/issues/1 I've found that in these cases a nice thing to do is write up a one-paragraph issue and see whether I get a slop reply.
15:27:16  (The standard approach for the first issue is to check timers before and after sleeping, to see how long we *actually* slept, and then compute a moving average sleep time which gives an offset. For the second issue, check timers after and before sleeping instead.)
15:42:30  [[Talk:Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177448&oldid=177441 * Widuruwana * (-3) 
15:42:45  [[Talk:Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177449&oldid=177448 * Widuruwana * (+1) 
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16:05:19  [[Talk:Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177450&oldid=177449 * Widuruwana * (+1435) /* Technical clarification on v1.1.0 and Authorship */ new section
16:08:41  [[Talk:Ivory]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177451&oldid=177450 * Widuruwana * (+91) Forgot to sign
16:12:41  [[Afth64]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177452 * Lykaina * (+6251) Copying contents of GitHub Wiki Page to Esolangs. (version 0.7a0)
16:14:24  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177453&oldid=177397 * Lykaina * (+13) /* A */
16:19:01  [[Afth64]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177454&oldid=177452 * Aadenboy * (-14) remove h1 header + shorten source + formatting
16:19:40  Thanks Aadenboy
16:23:13  [[Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177455&oldid=177447 * Aadenboy * (+0) fix category
16:24:18  [[Afth64]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177456&oldid=177454 * Lykaina * (+11) /* Command Groups */ fixing table
16:25:01  [[Talk:Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177457&oldid=177451 * Aadenboy * (+184) revert removal of [[User:Corbin]]'s message
16:26:20  [[Afth64]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177458&oldid=177456 * Lykaina * (+5) /* Full Lines */ fixing table
16:27:15  [[Afth64]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177459&oldid=177458 * Aadenboy * (+0) vbar for clarity
16:27:26  [[Afth64]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177460&oldid=177459 * Aadenboy * (+0) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/177459|177459]] by [[Special:Contributions/Aadenboy|Aadenboy]] ([[User talk:Aadenboy|talk]])
16:34:13  [[Afth64]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177461&oldid=177460 * Lykaina * (+30) /* Initial Letters Tables */ Clarifying something.
16:35:42  [[Afth64]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177462&oldid=177461 * Lykaina * (-28) /* Command Groups and Full Line Commands */ Fixing section
16:37:44  Indeed. Very thoughtful of them.
16:46:16  korvo: Timers reminds me of when I first used libcurl's async interface, called curl_multi, that lets you integrate the library into any event loop of your choice. The library tells you which file descriptors it wants to wait on for reading or writing, and also a duration for when its next timeout is. The problem is, when I woke the library up from the event loop exactly when it asked, the library often 
16:46:22  decided that I called it back too early and there's nothing to handle yet and I should wait another 0 milliseconds. This resulted in stupid busy loops that lasted for about a millisecond each time. 
16:46:50  [[Talk:Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177463&oldid=177457 * Corbin * (+974) /* Technical clarification on v1.1.0 and Authorship */ No worries!
16:47:31  b_jonas: Wow, that's amazing. I wonder what the right solution should be.
16:49:54  [[Afth64]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177464&oldid=177462 * Lykaina * (+11) /* Command Groups */ fixing conversion error
17:02:45 * Lykaina really hopes that Afth64 is actually Turing-Complete.
17:03:26  the mechanism that made Afth Turing-Complete is still there
17:03:49  [[Talk:Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177465&oldid=177463 * Widuruwana * (+331) Replied to Mr. Corbin
17:04:21  [[Talk:Ivory]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177466&oldid=177465 * Widuruwana * (+1) minor mistype
17:05:53  [[Talk:Ivory]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177467&oldid=177466 * Widuruwana * (-184) Removing AI tag per discussion and consensus with Mr. Corbin on the Talk page.
17:10:57  korvo: in the short term, just add 1 millisecond to the timeout that curl_multi reports. 
17:12:53  b_jonas: ...Yeah, me too.
17:39:26  attempting to port the RPNCALC example from Afth to Afth64
17:48:47  [[Smolder]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177468&oldid=175581 * BODOKE2801e * (-1) User:Aadenbpoy
18:05:56  [[Afth64]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177469&oldid=177464 * Lykaina * (+712) /* Examples */ Adding RPN Calculator
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18:42:37  [[User:Dragoneater67]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177470&oldid=177424 * Dragoneater67mobile * (-31) yipee ig
18:47:52  [[PizzaScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177471&oldid=168795 * Jay * (+1) /* Welcome to the PizzaScript site! */
18:50:13  [[PizzaScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177472&oldid=177471 * Jay * (+132) /* Instalation */
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18:59:36  [[Talk:PizzaScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177473 * Jay * (+132) Created page with "= '''Welcome to Talk!''' = === Where you can post questions and I will try to answer them. === 
 You are free to edit this page."
19:20:15  [[Talk:PizzaScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177474&oldid=177473 * Corbin * (+155) 
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19:33:40 * Lykaina is trying to determine how to define methods in a future version of Afth64
19:34:27  Good Night, cu *
19:34:28  😴
19:37:47  that is, while still being compatible with Afth64 0.7, the current version.
19:40:48  korvo: the longer term solution is to integrate more tightly with an event loop in such a way that instead of curl_multi querying the OS for which handle is readable/writable and the current time, it trusts what the event loop reports it, and if the event loop tells it that the timeout occurred then it tursts that. but libcurl wants to be easy to use with not much code from the user, which is why they 
19:40:54  don't do that.
19:41:38  but since they only give you a timeout at millisecond precision, calling them one more millisecond late is fine. libcurl only uses these timers for timeouts that don't need to be precise.
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19:53:11  i think i can use a macro-like format to do it.
19:54:29  b_jonas: That makes sense. This turns out to also matter for CPU-bound cooperative scheduling, not just for sockets.
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20:15:59  The word S1OUT with definition _2IOUISn_2I_1LISnH._2-I_1LISn would output everything in stack 1 to stdout, but only if I modify the code to be able to handle the formatting code 'n', meaning newline.
20:19:02  no...that would mess up the line order for jumps
20:27:22  {_2IOUIS}\n{_2I_1LIS}\n{H._2-I_1LIS}
20:27:56  sorry, thinking out loud
20:29:39  No worries, it's allowed.
20:31:07  [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox/Kiosk]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177475 * Ractangle * (+426) Created page with "'''Kiosk''' is an esoteric programming language based on Market kiosks, created by [[User:Ractangle]]  ==Syntax== All Kiosk programs start with opening a kiosk (and also the location but it's optional):  A kiosk gets created, called "''name''" whic
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21:02:20  of course, give a word alternate definitions.
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21:51:53  [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177476&oldid=177174 * Tommyaweosme * (+155) /* why */
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23:26:16  Lykaina: no problem!
23:27:31  hmm I should continue regularly connecting to here
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2026-03-08:

00:02:59  so I have decided that analog sticks are actually a fairly terrible input method
00:03:06  (after a lot of experimentation with an actual game controller)
00:03:11  but the d-pad and face buttons are promising
00:07:40  what about the shoulder buttons?
00:08:01  probably modifier keys
00:09:39  shoulder and bumper buttons*
00:20:25  they're a bit like the shift keys on keyboards
00:20:32  you can use them but they're awkward to press at the same time as keys near them
00:21:09  (it's possible but slows you down a bit – professional typists used to be taught to always use the shift key on the hand opposite the one they were pressing the key they were shifting with)
00:21:21  really? I haven't encountered that issue
00:21:37  probably because I always use my left pinky for left shift
00:23:08  you can also only really use your thumbs to press the d-pad and face buttons so those ones would be left to your index and middle fingers
00:23:15  pretty easy to press at the same time
00:23:26  ais523: I don't think that applies to the controller, at least the way I imagine you're using it. for keyboard, you have to move your hand position to reach the shift keys with your 5th finger because they're in an awkward position, and that affects the fingers on the same hand. but on a controller, your 1st or 2nd fingers are pressing the shoulder/trigger/bumper buttons, and I think that doesn't 
00:23:32  influence much how you're handling the d-pad and face buttons with your thumbs.
00:23:55  b_jonas: exactly
00:24:19  I actually found it affected me more on a controller – I normally use the little finger on my same hand for pressing shift, but on the controller I was having problems pressing the right bumper and right face buttons at the same time
00:24:23  the problem is that there are too few combinations. only like 4*5*4 because I assume two shoulder buttons can be in 4 combinations, d-pad can be neutral or one of four directions, and while holding these you press one of the four face buttons.
00:24:53  you can press the diagonals reliably on a d-pad, and can on most designs press two adjacent face buttons reliably as well
00:25:12  although, there will be a glitch on the way to the diagonal where it looks orthogonal, and your program needs to take that into account
00:25:28  ok, that might give you enough combinations then
00:25:57  I found two systems that were usable, the second one is actually fairly fast even with only an hour or so of practice
00:26:01  but I'm still refining it
00:26:15  I need to work out how much of the frequency of "g" in English is from "ing" and how much is other uses
00:26:56  are independent button presses (only d-pad/only one face button) counted as a keystroke?
00:27:26  or reserved for other uses
00:28:14  based on my experimentation, I think you want to use independent presses as much as possible
00:28:22  they might be slightly slower than pairs but they have much lower cognitive load
00:29:16  let's see, my word frequency data has 9606573871 "ing", 32721311168 "g", so about one third of "g"s come from "ing"
00:29:58  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177477&oldid=177431 * InLuaIKnow * (+579) 
00:30:25  interesting
00:30:55  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177478&oldid=177453 * InLuaIKnow * (+10) /* Non-alphabetic */
00:34:15  `perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w*g\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
00:34:17  get got gotten go gone knowingly canning good goodness liking right rightful rightfully rightly rightness seeing thinking thought give gave given giving something telling tellingly thing through wrought again against although though anything begin began begun big bring brought caring change changed changing during government great greatly greatness group high highly highness homing including interesting interestingly large largely lasting long longish lovi
00:36:57  `perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/^\w*g\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
00:36:58  get go good right give something thing through again against although anything begin big bring change during government great group high large long might night nothing program age ago along among college design enough everything fight figure game general girl grow guy light morning sign strong suggest together wrong young according agency agree argue average building campaign challenge charge congress daughter degree dog drug eight energy evening feeling f
00:37:38  [[Righght]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177479&oldid=177362 * Cool Bungle * (+1) 
00:43:27  b_jonas: is that a list of the most common words that contain "g"?
00:43:42  ah no, "although" doesn't
00:43:51  oh yes it does
00:43:53  just a hidden one
00:44:36  the existence of the "gh" digraph was already an obstacle for me earlier, by throwing off phonetics-based reasoning about which letter combinations were likely
00:49:09  ais523: yes
00:49:31   `perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w*k\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
00:49:35  `perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w*k\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
00:49:36  know knew knowingly known like liking look make take taken took think thinking back lifelike okay OK talk work works ask childlike keep kept thank thankful thankfully thankless thanks week weeks black blackness book booked bookish break broke broken businesslike kid kidding kill killed kind kindly market marketing pick quick quickly quickness speak spoke spoken walk walking warlike attack bank banking block blocked check checked checking dark darkly darkne
00:49:43  sorry for misquoting you
00:50:46  oh, I forgot about leading "kn", it didn't come up in the words I was testing on
00:50:59  `perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w*q[^u]\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
00:51:00  Iraqi IQ) HQ)
00:51:11  parenthesis?
00:51:57  I don't think there are many words starting "nk", I could use that as an alternative
00:52:41  aadenboy: https://wordlist.aspell.net/12dicts-readme/#223frq search for "parenthisized"
00:53:22  they don't follow the normal methodology of how Alan created this list
00:54:02  gotcha
00:54:38  though I don't understand how the regex matches the parenthesis part or how it gets printed otherwise
00:54:53  oh, [^u]
00:55:07  hmm
00:55:58  `perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w*q[^u]*\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
00:55:59  question quick quickly quickness quite require required cheque quality quiet quietly quietness consequence equal equally equipment frequent frequently quarter request requested square squared squarely technique unique uniquely uniqueness acquire acquired adequate adequately equivalent frequency inquiry enquiry Iraqi) \  qualify qualified qualifying queen quit quote quoted requirement sequence sequencing squeeze squeezing subsequent subsequently acquisition
00:56:07  no
00:56:26  not what I wanted to do
00:56:38  eh
00:57:25  try /\w*q(?!u)\w*/ig
00:58:28  `perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w*q(?!u)\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
00:58:30  Iraqi IQ HQ
00:58:38  figured same results
00:58:41  got rid of the parentheses though
00:59:09  silly english orthography rules
01:02:18  uh oh, "pocketknife" (all other "kn" words I've found have it at the start or after [csnlraeiouy])
01:02:48  oh, and "slipknot"/"topknot" have it after a "p"
01:02:51  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177480&oldid=177477 * InLuaIKnow * (+28) 
01:03:07  all compounds!
01:03:34  looks like neither "tnk" nor "pnk" are in any word in my word list, so I can just allow those to be used to write "tkn"/"pkn"
01:03:55  aadenboy: most rare letter combinations only appear in the middle of compound words
01:04:35  that makes sense
01:05:00  what causes all these problem is that I'm working on a system where the only way to type certain combinations is to insert an extra letter and then backspace over it
01:05:12  and trying to ensure that those combinations never come up in actual words
01:05:49  English spelling and pronunciation is, while not regular, regular enough that you can mostly prove combinations impossible based on things like voicing
01:06:11  but! normally the voiced version of a voiceable letter is rare than the unvoiced version
01:06:32  this is true for most letters but "k" is much rarer than "g", even if you add a special case for "-ing" to remove those "g" from the frequencies
01:07:24  so I have been experimenting with swapping "k" and "g" for ease of typing, but that allows some untypeable combinations to sneak through and thus I need special cases for them
01:10:13  in the system I'm working on any letter can appear after [aeiouylr] so those aren't problematic, any letter can appear before a vowel, and "cg", "sg", "mk" basically never appear before consonants so they can be used for "ck", "sk", "nk" respectively
01:10:50  ais523: https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/q/79223/ lists a bunch of letter combinations that appear as infix in only one english word, such as "rsd" which only occurs in "thursday"
01:10:58  but words like "knickknack" and "pocketknife" break the typing rules
01:11:08  b_jonas: ooh, interesting, I'll see how many fit my rules
01:11:12  which I think suggests that you'll run into a lot of such problmes
01:12:02  let's see how many would be problematic
01:13:32  "ekb" would be problematic if followed by another consonant (except l or r); everything else is typable regardless of context
01:14:46  oh, "hq" couldn't be typed if not followed by "u", but I'm kind-of assuming there's a u there :-D
01:15:37  on the other hand, I once searched Irregular Webcomics for rare letter pairs at the *start* of words, as a way to find typos. the most common false positives were words like "fhtangn" that appear related to Cthulhu. I also learned that "aj" starts only one english word, "ajar", but there are basically no other letter pairs that start only one word. in theory there's "bdellium" but that's a word I only 
01:15:43  encounter when people talk about strange words.
01:16:58  TAOCP talks about starting letter pairs in english language by the way, in volume 3 
01:17:32  believe it or not "fhtangn" doesn't break any of my rules about which letters can appear next to which
01:18:30  the basic idea I have is to assign 16 of the most common letters to the 16 possible presses of one thumb (orthogonals and diagonals of the thumbs on each hand)
01:18:53  and then for the other 8, you keep holding the letter you pressed with one hand while you press the next letter with the other
01:19:36  it wasn't just "fhtangn", that's just the most common of those words
01:19:40  and that swaps the consonant out for a rarer version, so it works if the rare consonant is either preceded or followed by a vowel (l and r are vowels)
01:20:16  to clarify, l and r aren't *always* vowels in English, but they're vowels often enough that I put them on the vowels thumb to avoid conflicts (along with y)
01:20:33  I get r, but l?
01:21:02  "dazzle" is a good example
01:21:29  hmm
01:21:36  you can't pronounce that word without holding the "l" vowel-style, because the "e" is silent
01:22:11  of course if you want this for programming then the user will often type things that aren't english words
01:22:14  `perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w+l\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
01:22:15  knowingly all could justly rightful rightfully rightly timeless well wellness will willful willfully would also call called evenly firstly lifeless lifelike little manliness manly needless needlessly only overly people real really should still stillness talk tell telling tellingly told useful usefully usefulness useless although always badly believe careful carefully careless carelessly carelessness child childish childless childlike children close closed 
01:22:48  I don't believe "knowingly" is the most common word containing an "l" not at the start, maybe it's in a comment
01:23:02  b_jonas: well, I think programming will mostly be using intellisense-style autocomplete
01:23:13  so this would only be necessary for comments and newly introduced variable names
01:23:54  `perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w+[^aeiou]e?l\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
01:23:55  knowingly all justly rightfully rightly timeless well wellness will willful willfully call called evenly firstly lifeless lifelike little manliness manly needless needlessly only overly people really still stillness tell telling tellingly usefully useless badly carefully careless carelessly carelessness childless childlike closely differently early endless endlessly faceless fatherless fatherly friendliness friendly greatly headless helpfully helpless help
01:23:57  ais523: no, this is a lemmatized word list, so "knowingly" appears under the heading of "know", and "know" is common
01:25:49  anyway, out of those words, "all", "could", "people", "should", "talk", "told", "although", "always", "child", "childless", "childlike" are using "l" in a vowel-like way
01:26:04  interestingly, "children" isn't
01:26:21  and that changes the pronounciation of the first "i" compared to "child"/"childless"/"childlike"
01:26:27  for keyboard testing you probably want 12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3lem.txt instead to check if the most frequent words work
01:26:38  because that lists all the plurals and inflections
01:26:40  oh, I already have a word frequency list on my computer
01:26:56  not lemmatized or even case-quotiented
01:27:10  `perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3lem.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w+(? No output.
01:27:26  `perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w+(? knowingly all justly rightfully rightly timeless well wellness will willful willfully call called evenly firstly lifeless little manly needless needlessly only overly people really still stillness tell telling tellingly usefully useless badly carefully careless carelessly carelessness childless closely differently early endless endlessly faceless fatherless fatherly felt friendly greatly headless help helped helpful helpfully helpless helplessly helplessne
01:27:37  forgot to include y
01:27:40  aadenboy: it's not in HackEso, sorry. I didn't upload the whole 12dicts
01:27:52  The with a capital T is the tenth most common word when you don't case-quotient, apparently
01:28:08  the of and to in a is that for The
01:28:14  aadenboy: you can download them from https://wordlist.aspell.net/12dicts/ and even upload any of it to HackEso if you want
01:28:18  (based on google ngrams data)
01:28:41  `cat /hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/readme.hackeso
01:28:43  http://wordlist.aspell.net/12dicts/
01:29:25  `perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3lem.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w+(? No output.
01:29:35  whoops
01:29:44  `perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w+(? well wellness willful willfully little people stillness tell telling tellingly felt help helped helpful helpfully helpless helplessly helplessness held smallness world worldly able fell fullness himself modelling possible probable sell selling simple table article available cell couple example handle hell hellish herself itself middle myself single skillful skillfully style themselves trouble welcome welcoming yourself yourselves battle bottle circle comfo
01:30:32  cuts off comfortable
01:40:33  I wrote a regex to find words that have conflicts under my system
01:40:43  most of them end -ms, I think I need a special case for that
01:42:19  oh, -sms specifically
01:42:41  that's easy enough to add a special case for
01:44:07  m versus n in English is a complicated topic, they're almost allophones and act like that in a lot of contexts, but in some words the difference is important
01:44:25  ais523: I don't think I completely understood what you said earlier, but (1) it sounds like you're making a system where one hand presses the vowels and the other hand the consonants. I think that's a good idea of which the dvorak keyboard is a bad execution. (2) it sounds like you're making a system where most of the common letters are typed by single keys (or combinations of two adjacent keys pressed 
01:44:31  with one digit). that sounds dangerous, because that can result in a system where it's easy to type fast but if you try to speed up then presses from different hands or digits will start to overlap in time, and if you assign those overlapping combinations new meanings that can break your typing.
01:44:58  b_jonas: I originally tried it the other way, where overlapping was the default
01:45:15  but half the time you're pressing two keys in a row with the same hand anyway, so it sets a speed limit
01:45:55  and it turns out that to avoid conflicts the letters that require overlaps mostly need to be rare anyway ("d" is common and typed by overlapping, but that's the only one)
01:46:12  ais523: I think the normal idea is that some buttons are (almost) always shifts that don't do anything by themselves, while the rest of the keys are triggers that emit an output, possibly a different output depending on what other keys you're holding. you can relax this a little, but you have to be careful how.
01:46:42  b_jonas: I know, I tried several systems that worked like that first
01:47:25  I didn't like them, I was very slow with them and frequently I would freeze up trying to work out how to input the next character
01:48:39  but I never tried to design to your goals, and I probably never will, for two reasons: (1) I don't like game controllers, I think that they're mostly controlled by thumb is uncomfortable, and (2) I don't want to type things on the bus/tram, I'm already spending too much of the time at home and at work at a computer, I don't want to do it even during travel time, and that's part of the reason why I don't 
01:48:45  have a smartphone.
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01:51:26  hmm… "diaphragms", "paradigm", "mnemonic(s)", "xterm", and a lot of words starting "dw"
01:51:31  everything else is a loanword
01:52:34  * "paradigms"
01:53:12  what's that word list?
01:53:20  /usr/share/dict/words
01:53:26  not comprehensive but probably good enough for this
01:53:31  no, I mean the one starting with diaphragms
01:53:40  for "diaphragms"/"paradigms" I guess I have to type the ending as "kms"? "gns" would be easier to type but some words actually end like that
01:53:49  b_jonas: the only remaining words with conflicts
01:56:39  leading mn could be spelled as nn or nm, neither of those appears at the start of a word
01:57:00  I hope when you get a stable system from this you document it somewhere
01:57:08  will need to implement it
01:57:20  so far I've just been holding the controller and pressing the buttons, without anything reading it
01:57:29  yeah
01:59:41  leading dw is awkward, it's only two letters so everything you might type instead conflicts, maybe "duu" would work?
01:59:55  OK, yes, no words contain duu
02:01:01  or maybe I can add it as a special case like j and qu are – those special cases require the next letter to always be a vowel, but it is in those cases
02:02:23  and is for "dw" too
02:03:02  heh, three of these special cases contain w: wh, dw, and qu which is kw
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02:38:27  https://cellua.miraheze.org/wiki/Force_notation I think this could be a good foundation for an esolang
02:39:06  for its intended purpose it's rather verbose and hard to interpret (and just isn't used on the wiki anyways) but it could be augmented for programming in general
02:39:47  idk what that would look like though
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05:21:25  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177481&oldid=177366 * PrySigneToFry * (+114) 
05:22:12  [[Septem Lingua]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177482&oldid=177481 * PrySigneToFry * (+1) 
05:22:45  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177483&oldid=177482 * PrySigneToFry * (+15) 
05:23:27  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177484 * BODOKE2801e * (+2164) Created page with "'''Ima gte. Ima dana''' is a [[Joke language list|Joke language]] made by [[User:BODOKE2801e]], it just doesn't make sense  ==Syntax==  {| class="wikitable" |+ |- ! Syntax !! Action |- | Say "Hello" to [x]! || Creates new variable x |- | BEGONE [x]!!!! || 
05:24:17  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177485&oldid=177484 * BODOKE2801e * (+0) 
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06:02:50  goodnight
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06:54:17  [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177486&oldid=177476 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+273) /* why */
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07:18:24  [[No.pe.]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177487&oldid=176541 * PrySigneToFry * (+16) 
07:30:44  [[ConstantLanguage()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177488&oldid=169079 * PrySigneToFry * (+178) 
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08:23:59  [[User:Dragoneater67]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177489&oldid=177470 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+50) 
08:57:47  I had a realization about the syntax of conditionals in Columnar. So previously I had the idea that the question mark and exclamation mark should be operands on their own that take an integer input from their column and make the following operator run conditionally only if that input is nonzero or zero respectively. But no, the question mark and exclamation mark shouldn't be infections, they should be 
08:57:53  prefixes for other infections. If you put a question mark before one of the infection marks ~ ` ' ^ - then that should turn that from a normal input operand into a condition input, and similarly an exclamation mark to a negated condition. And if you put the question mark or exclamation mark directly before the operator, that should mean that it's conditional on the implicit input from the column where 
08:57:59  that operator is (in which case that column can't also be a normal input to the operator). 
08:58:03  This is definitely more verbose, but I think more suitable for the language.
08:58:55  These conditionals can then be used on a goto operator (which I think will be spelled as a left parenthesis) for ordinary flow control, or on any normal function call. 
09:00:32  Also if you put them before a dot or comma, which are inflections for output operands, then a conditional doesn't make sense, so that case can be overloaded for some other meaning in the future if necessary, although I already have other prefix/suffix characters that I can use that way.
09:08:36  Hi
09:19:25  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177490&oldid=177478 * C0ffee * (+15) 
09:21:21  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177491&oldid=173727 * PrySigneToFry * (+383) 
09:31:48  [[MikuLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177492&oldid=176957 * PrySigneToFry * (+111) Small fix
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13:19:17  [[Dotfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177493&oldid=137536 * None1 * (+1) /* Execution */
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13:38:24  [[NS!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177494&oldid=153900 * Zopium * (+85) 
14:37:51  [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177495 * PrySigneToFry * (+646) Created page with "Some useless code written when going crazy  = C++ = 
 int main() {     return 0; } 
 
 int main() {     main(); } 
 
 int main() {     cout; } 
 
 int main() {     while(0) {}; return
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16:55:11  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Ualkc *  New user account
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17:01:02  [[Afth64]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177496&oldid=177469 * Lykaina * (+17) Adding notice that page describes a certain version of the code (v0.7). Need to update page to current version (v0.8.1).
17:05:06  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177497&oldid=177408 * Ualkc * (+229) /* Introductions */
17:12:26  [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177498&oldid=174470 * Ualkc * (+57) 
17:37:09  [[Afth64]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177499&oldid=177496 * Lykaina * (+469) /* Words */ Adding info on multiple definition words.
17:38:17  [[Afth64]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177500&oldid=177499 * Lykaina * (+2) Updating to version 0.8.1 (current version).
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18:23:23  good morning!
18:28:12  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177501&oldid=177485 * BODOKE2801e * (+355) /* Complex */
18:35:47  G'Night
18:38:01  goodnight APic
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19:10:59  hi sgeo
19:34:05  [[Afth64]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177502&oldid=177500 * Lykaina * (+25) /* Words */ Noticed I forgot something.
19:41:34  [[Afth64]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177503&oldid=177502 * Lykaina * (+0) /* Dictionary Code */ Giving word JUMP a clearer equivalent definition.
19:45:53  [[Voiced dental fricative]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177504&oldid=98194 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+770) Added a hyperlink to my implementation on GitHub, changed the Unimplemented page category tag to Implemented, and improved the grammar and formatting.
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22:33:06  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177505&oldid=177501 * BODOKE2801e * (+96) /* Syntax */
22:36:01  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177506&oldid=177505 * BODOKE2801e * (+73) /* Syntax */
22:36:17  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177507&oldid=177506 * BODOKE2801e * (+3) /* Syntax */
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2026-03-09:

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02:03:20  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177508&oldid=177480 * InLuaIKnow * (+1289) 
02:18:37  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177509&oldid=177508 * InLuaIKnow * (+407) /* Lua (made by User:InLuaIKnow) */
02:45:48  [[Tetrahedron]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177510 * Cleverxia * (+1122) Created page with "{{WIP}} '''Tetrahedron''', with [[hexagony]] as its inspiration, is a [[fungeoid]] created by [[user:cleverxia]] that operates on two infinite tetrahedrons: code and data. ==Program flow== first, the program is loaded into "program tetrahedron" from top to bottom,
02:54:37  [[User:Cleverxia]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177511&oldid=177338 * Cleverxia * (+41) 
03:01:34  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177512&oldid=177507 * BODOKE2801e * (+301) /* Syntax */
03:11:30  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177513&oldid=177512 * BODOKE2801e * (+652) /* Examples */
03:11:49  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177514&oldid=177513 * BODOKE2801e * (+4) /* Quine */
03:13:15  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177515&oldid=177514 * BODOKE2801e * (+639) /* FizzBuzz */
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07:32:10  [[Efghij]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177516&oldid=158663 * Timwi * (-73) Removing a broken/incomplete example for now. I have notified the author so they can fix it
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10:01:36  Hi
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11:39:05  korvo: you've sort-of had a submission on your second vibecoding challenge (it doesn't include the actual code because the human supervising the LLM wasn't sure how to submit it, and is asking for advice)
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13:14:28  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Wheatley *  New user account
13:18:22  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177517&oldid=177497 * Wheatley * (+122) /* Introductions */
13:18:46  [[User:Wheatley]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177518 * Wheatley * (+23) Created page with "I AM NOT. A... MORON!!!"
13:29:09  [[User:Wheatley]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177519&oldid=177518 * Wheatley * (+26) 
13:30:33  [[User talk:Wheatley]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177520 * Wheatley * (+121) Created page with "r0 --~~~~"
15:23:25  Hmmm Portal 2 reference detected (User:Wheatley)
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17:52:06  ais523: Replied, thanks. Didn't show up in my GH notifications for some reason.
17:54:52  fizzie: have you crafted zygohistomorphic prepromorphism in Infinite Craft yet?
17:59:13  I don't think I've played Infinite Craft since that one bout of it long time ago.
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21:42:22  Good Night
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2026-03-10:

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04:19:40  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177521&oldid=177509 * Dragoneater67mobile * (-56) Irrelevant
04:57:45  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Laptopcoder11 *  New user account
05:04:27  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177522&oldid=177517 * Laptopcoder11 * (+216) 
05:32:29  [[SSEG]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177523&oldid=174233 * Laptopcoder11 * (+1400) 
05:33:38  [[SSEG]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177524&oldid=177523 * Laptopcoder11 * (+36) /* Fibonacci */
05:38:05  [[SSEG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177525&oldid=177524 * Laptopcoder11 * (+16) /* Instruction Set */
05:38:41  [[SSEG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177526&oldid=177525 * Laptopcoder11 * (+2) fixed minor formatting issue
05:53:53  [[AST]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177527 * Corbin * (+34) Add a redirect for a very common abbreviation.
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07:38:33  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * EsolangerII *  New user account
07:51:57  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177528&oldid=177522 * EsolangerII * (+45) /* Introductions */
08:22:25  [[ but with only plausible commands]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177529&oldid=147718 * Dragoneater67 * (-15) remove useless section
09:15:26  [[67 machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177530&oldid=177422 * Dragoneater67 * (-23) /* Python */
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10:02:32  Hi
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10:25:05  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177531&oldid=177347 * Dragoneater67 * (+4) /* Phase 1 */ im stupid
11:13:13  [[@!+-()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177532&oldid=163802 * RikoMamaBala * (+551) 
14:02:14  [[JS--]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177533 * Mrtli08 * (+1065) Created page with "This is a joke language, dont take it seriously. 
 JS-- is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript Javascript] but its just SIMPLER. 
 The reason this is a esolang is because its JS but... we removed the commands you will soon beg to use. 
  === Commands === (..
14:09:07  [[JS--]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177534&oldid=177533 * Mrtli08 * (+135) 
14:09:18  [[JS--]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177535&oldid=177534 * Mrtli08 * (+2) /* == Commands */
15:03:03  [[@!+-()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177536&oldid=177532 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+0) /* Cat */ remove redundant space
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17:08:53  [[User:H33T33]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177537&oldid=169248 * H33T33 * (+2) 
17:09:25  [[User:H33T33]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177538&oldid=177537 * H33T33 * (+18) Changed "In Development" languages to paused
17:24:58  [[JS--]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177539&oldid=177535 * Corbin * (+47) Categories.
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21:41:23  [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177540&oldid=177415 * Aadenboy * (+0) wrong year
22:00:07  hmmmm colors! https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez2-mixing-4.jpg
22:00:41  int-e: what this? cellular automata?
22:01:25  Everything: no, it's a puzzle-ish simulation game that's the sequel the shapez.io
22:01:31  it's a game called shapez 2 that I've been playing (to leave early access in April)
22:01:42  sandbox simulation except it's paint instead of sand
22:02:38  the color mixing rules are such that you can create any color from an even mix of the primary colors. that's what this device is doing (you can rotate r/g/b to get the others)
22:03:22  (tbd: control inputs with wires and valves)
22:03:28  int-e: do you get as much output as the sum of inputs?
22:03:48  b_jonas: yes, mixers are 2 x 450L/s in and 900L/s out
22:03:57  so it's *very* different from shapez 1.
22:04:02  or shapez.io
22:04:49  (correcting the name; I find it hard to not think of it as shapez 1 when there's a shapez 2)
22:05:01  feel free to call it shapez 1
22:05:55  Oh I will. I'm trying (and probably failing) to clarify that there's only two games in this discussion, not three.
22:06:39  Spelunky Classic, Spelunky HD, and Spelunky 2
22:09:25  so do you have these mixer boxes in pairs, giving a choice of all seven colors together?
22:10:57  or does this one sector switch between all seven output colors?
22:11:05  It's hard to tell from the building (because there's always two mixers stacked on top of each other in each slot but they're not always fed the same inputs) the flow goes like this: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez2-mixing.png (read left to right; black circles are mixers)
22:11:41  b_jonas: there's 4 copies of the same build, with different colors on the 6 input pipes
22:13:04  So at this point the selection of the four output colors would be manual.
22:14:44  int-e: I don't understand that graphics. are the six columns on the left show six different configurations that get you different output colors?
22:14:52  yes
22:15:47  ok
22:16:11  the color mixing rule is actually rather simple: add the two colors (as RGB), then "normalize" by dividing by the maximal channel value. Except it's truncating division. So red + magenta gives 2/2 = 1 for red and 1/2 = 0/2 = 0 for blue and green... so red.
22:17:00  so next you have to add filters controlled by logic on the left side of this sector so that it can automatically switch to a desired output color?
22:17:43  Yeah. I've actually done this for a mixer that produces 4x as much of a single color: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez2-mixer.jpg
22:18:46  (I hate that one can't really discern wire crossings. I hope they improve that in 1.0)
22:19:16  it has to take up a whole triple length sector?
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22:20:18  The valves have limited throughput and threading pipes and wires is awkward. I don't think I can fit it into a 2x1.
22:20:45  but why is the mixer area much bigger than in your previous screenshot?
22:21:10  ah no, it's not bigger
22:21:14  it's just shaped differently
22:22:01  Because it's 4 mixers with 1/4 the throughput. They're significantly smaller individually.
22:23:17  I also have spent way more time on the higher throughput mixer.
22:25:31  Anyway. This may even become a 2x3 by the time I'm done with the wires.
22:25:52  Good Night    😴
22:35:14  The tricky thing about routing in this game is that vertical connections are rather limited: they go from one floor to another and on each of those two floors they connect to exactly one neighbor. This is what results in all those awkward looking zigzags
22:35:53  this is currently true for belts, pipes, wires, and also for space belts and space pipes at the platform level
22:38:40  (I view it as a puzzle mechanic. But it can be annoying :P)
22:43:30  int-e: sounds like Satisfactory
22:45:40  well not quite, they can have a straight vertical connection more than one floors high
22:46:32  You can do that in shapez 2 too, you can go from the bottom to the top floor. (There is only 3 floors.)
22:47:39  I haven't seen too much of satisfactory. I've seen people wrestle with conveyer belts, but I've missed vertical connections.
22:48:57  Anyway. All this because I want to make a proper MAM before 1.0 is released...
22:49:16  "proper" in the sense that it produces more than 2 belts worth of output :)
22:50:27  I may be overcooking the color mixing though. :)
22:58:36  int-e: you can have sloped belts in Satisfactory, but there are also belt lifts, but they have one entrance and one exit
23:00:14  you may be, yes. I tried things like that in shapez, where I build only half as much of a color or of windmills as the worst shape could have, but add buffer tanks and then split, and it works, but it's usually easier to just produce enough of every constant shape and color for everyone
23:00:31  but that's because land is free in shapez.io, so I can mine as much of everything as I want
23:00:37  could be different in shapez 2 where you pay for the land
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23:20:48  Like, this is probably good enough even though it pulls in color in a 6:6:0 ratio instead of the ideal 4:4:4 in the worst case: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez2-mixing-5.jpg
23:21:19  and will be a lot easier to do selection for, and have lower latency
23:22:01  (though latency really isn't that much of a concern; the number of shapes you have to deliver grows exponentially... well until you hit 2^31)
23:39:55  b_jonas: I'm not sure how relevant the platform limit really is... it depends on how much you enjoy building up production capacity I suppose. I prefer the design aspect and for that purpose it hasn't been an issue.
23:40:31  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177541&oldid=177515 * BODOKE2801e * (+0) /* Hello World */
23:40:43  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177542&oldid=177541 * BODOKE2801e * (-1) /* Syntax */

2026-03-11:

00:00:49  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177543&oldid=177542 * BODOKE2801e * (+141) 
00:01:37  [[Ima gte. Ima dana/Operation table]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177544 * BODOKE2801e * (+0) Created blank page
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00:18:09  I implemented my gamepad typing algorithm: http://nethack4.org/pastebin/typing.html
00:19:09  I find my most common typoes are moving in the right direction but with the wrong hand, accidental overlaps when trying to type quickly, and accidentally pressing a diagonal when I meant to press an orthogonal
00:19:48   I hope when you get a stable system from this you document it somewhere
00:20:06  may take a while to write out the rules but the implementation may be sufficient to determine them experimentally
00:22:20  note that you will need to connect a standard-layout (17-button or compatible) game controller in order to use the page
00:22:23  (or read the source code)
00:28:57  I think you're right that accidental overlaps may become more of a problem as typing speed increases, I wonder if there would be some easy way to tell them apart from the intentional ones
00:35:40  it's also not totally finished yet, missing many important punctuation marks and digits
00:55:33  ais523: I don't quite understand this code. does this mean that if you want one of the secondary consonants [dkmbzvwx] then you hold the following vowel first before you press the consonant, or hold the right shoulder button if there's no following vowel?
00:55:50  is 5 even the shoulder button, or does that refer to pressing the joystick?
00:56:13  b_jonas: you can get it two ways, either hold the preceding vowel and press the consonant, or hold the consonant until you start the following vowel
00:56:18  and yes, 5 is the right shoulder button
00:56:28  I see
00:56:33  the HTML/JS gamepad API has really stupid button numbering
00:56:47  the face buttons and d-pad aren't at all consistent in their numbering schemes
00:57:02  the right shoulder button is the spacebar, it acts like a ninth vowel
00:57:13  so holding t and pressing the right shoulder button gives you "d "
00:57:27  oh, it's space
00:57:43  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177545&oldid=177521 * InLuaIKnow * (+227) /* Lua (made by User:InLuaIKnow) */
00:57:45  qu and j are the most difficult, you have to hold orthogonal, press the vowel, then change to a diagonal before releasing
00:57:57  it's a fairly easy input to make but a little harder to remember
00:58:11  (this works because qu and j are always followed by a vowel in English)
00:58:56  so because you can hold either the previous vowel or the next vowel to get the secondary consonant, you can use that to get any two of the 16 main consonants one after another if there's a vowel or space before and after?
00:59:19  yes
00:59:29  but actually there are a lot of special cases to avoid needing to use word boundaries
00:59:40  e.g. you can hold a vowel and press two consonants, holding a and pressing t twice gives "add"
00:59:54  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177546&oldid=177545 * InLuaIKnow * (+62) /* Syntax */
01:00:22  I'm surprised that x rather than j is the secondary consonant paired with c 
01:00:25  and you can hold a vowel through an n to affect the consonant beyond, holding a and typing "nt" gives "and" rather than "amd" (the choice of m or n in the middle depends on what the third letter is, holding "a" and pressing "np" would give "amb")
01:00:38  "x" is sometimes followed by a consonant, e.g. "explosion"
01:00:50  but "j" is always followed by a vowel, so it can use an input that requires one
01:00:56  makes sense
01:01:34  it's not totally based on letter frequency (although that was an important factor, it wasn't the only one)
01:02:13  the other nontrivial thing is that after c, s, and th, the positions of g and k swap, as do the positions of m and n
01:02:22  this "just works" in a very large number of cases
01:02:51  so it's worth the extra confusion of the letters changing places sometimes
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01:12:51  ais523: how do you type "handful"?
01:13:35  also how do you type "thanks"? is there a special case to cover these?
01:13:53  yes, for "handful" you hold a and type n t
01:14:13  and for "thanks" you hold a and type n g
01:14:40  holding a vowel and pressing n, then pressing another consonant, the middle letter is m or n depending on what the third letter is
01:14:51  ah indeed, those are the "two special cases for vowel-n"
01:15:39  a syllable in English can't end "amd" or "amk", and if the d or k were part of the next syllable it would have a vowel/l/r after it
01:16:02  or rarely n if the k is silent
01:19:39  there is another special case that handles, e.g. "jackknife", but it isn't shown on the guide because it's rarely used and it's easier to scan the guide for the letter you want if it only uses each letter once
01:20:39  I think the entirety of /usr/share/dict/words (except proper nouns and loanwords) is typable without ever having to use the spacebar to help
01:20:49  although I made quite a few late tweaks so I'm not totally sure
01:21:36  how do you type "meanwhile"?
01:22:17  (I'm searching a dictionary for consonant clusters)
01:23:56  also "nothingness"
01:24:44  and "amongst"
01:25:22  no wait, "amongst" isn't a problem
01:25:32  nor is "nothingness"
01:25:54  there is a glide for entering "wh", the same way as you would type "qu"
01:26:25  hold h, type the vowel, move the d-pad to the right before releasing it
01:26:52  I see
01:27:00  same trick works for "mn" (e.g. "unmnemonic", which I had huge trouble typing even on this normal QWERTY keyboard)
01:27:28  unmnemonic
01:28:26  and "dw" although you have to stretch really far to put that into a problematic position (e.g. "postdwarf")
01:31:20  I think this might cover all common words. next question "cutzpah"
01:32:18  I think that one might actually defeat it, but you can still type it by holding a vowel after the t, backspacing the vowel and then typing the z with the vowel still held
01:32:34  (backspace is the left bumper)
01:33:09  I see
01:33:13  or you can do it the other way round, type, e.g. "ze" then backspace the e
01:33:23  (this also works for j, qu and lone q)
01:33:34  what's the normal way to type the punctuation marks shown on the right of the legend?
01:33:48  hold the vowel then press the right bumper
01:33:56  normally it inserts a space after them too (although for - and / it doesn't)
01:34:09  I see
01:34:47  the reverse pattern (hold space then press the vowel) is currently unused, it would make sense to put another set of punctuation marks on that input
01:35:27  how about "pocketknife"?
01:36:04  special case for kn (and for ck, although that one isn't necessary to type the word); hold n then hold/tap i then move the d-pad towards k
01:36:15  and you get "kni"
01:36:44  ah, so there's qu, wh, mn, kn as these sequences?
01:37:04  qu, wh, mn, kn, dw, j
01:37:12  and two unused because they aren't important enough
01:37:29  I see
01:37:34  they would logically be dn and zn but neither of those appears at the start of words in practice
01:39:48  oh, that reminds me, I was considering making s+space produce "'s " rather than "z ", that would handle all the words ending 's which would otherwise be problematic
01:39:55  (primarily due to not having an apostrophe)
01:42:40  for apostrophes that aren't 's, I was considering (in the common case) typing them as some other letter and using a dictionary to correct, as there aren't that many words with apostrophes in – o appears to have no collisions in /usr/share/dict/words
01:42:51  so, e.g., "it's" would be typed as "itos" and autocorrected
01:42:59  oh, you could have exceptions for all the other common apostrophe combinations in english then, like "'d", "'re", "n't" "I'm"
01:43:16  right
01:43:38  if s+space produces "'s" then how do you type "waltz"?
01:43:41  're is difficult because r and e are both on the vowels side
01:44:08  you would have to type another vowel and delete it
01:44:13  so there would be a compromise involved
01:45:11  "dz" is an extremely rare ending, so maybe it could have a special case like the case for "nk"
01:45:51  does the right shoulder button add a second space if you start to type a word holding it? for when you release space before you decide what the next word you want to type is
01:46:11  it would
01:46:24  I have been considering making that a special case to type "the" but that may be too cute
01:46:44  but I've been trying to design the system to not rely on holding space onto the start of a word
01:46:51  (so that unknown compound words are typable)
01:47:11  this is also important if typing the first word on a line
01:48:16  hmm, let me check that
01:48:57  "and" relies on a special case, it's the most common word that does I think
01:49:27  yes, and the second-most common is "which"
01:49:28  yeah, that should mostly work except for "vs"
01:49:35  which special case?
01:49:58  oh, the "md" special case
01:50:01  right
01:50:38  "vs" is interesting because it's an abbrevation (and isn't actually pronounced the way it's spelled), so it gets to dodge the pronunciation-based reasoning
01:50:55  besides "vs", I find "khaki" and "khan"
01:51:19  I was considering a kh special case because of that
01:51:25  but didn't think it'd be useful enough
01:51:37  they're rare enough that backpacing could be fine
01:51:41  there is space on d, vowel, upwards
01:52:11  isn't that where you're putting "'d"?
01:52:21  ah, that's only with space as the vowel
01:52:42  oh, that's interesting – letter, space, rotate to produce apostrophes
01:52:47  and it could even multiplex as "'t" after an "n"
01:53:06  you would just rotate an n for that I think
01:53:29  could have n't, 'd, 's very easily and there is room for five more
01:54:11  although there's nowhere really mnemonic to put 're because it doesn't contain any left-hand letters
01:55:11  fwiw, I'm considering swapping pb and fv – I am happy with the other 14 placements (which were determined with a lot of experimentation as to what would flow well) but not sure about that one
01:55:24  there's an alternative, which is that you type "n't" as "not" and have a dictionary of the forty or so words that end in "n't"
01:55:51  I was considering "type ' as o, except 's, and use a dictionary"
01:55:54  but "'d" and "'s" are living endings that you can put to new words so it doesn't work there
01:56:33  'd is normally used to abbreviate "had" or "would" and can only do that on finitely many words
01:56:46  or, hmm, can it do that on names?
01:57:03  maybe
01:57:04  's of course can be used on any noun
01:57:11  so it has to be a special case
01:57:36  there's also "'ve", and "o'clock" definitely needs a one-off exception
01:58:03  "ma'am" too, and you can't put that on "Maoam" because that's a real word
01:58:06  then you have to start dealing with words like "o'er"
01:58:54  I think there should be some general-case way to type an apostrophe and maybe a shortcut for common words that contain it
01:59:46  but there are so many punctuation marks, ASCII has 94 printable non-whitespace characters and only 62 of them are alphanumeric, so that's 32 punctuation marks that need inputs
02:01:14  oh, another problem with my demo is that you have to mash the left bumper to backspace multiple characters, I should make that backspace repeatedly if held
02:01:25  maybe time the backspace key that I'm used to and get the controller's backspace to match
02:02:54  or just add a way to delete a word
02:03:00 * ais523 vaguely wonders if U+0020 should be called the "forward space" character
02:03:05  you probably need some way to enter a capital letter
02:03:17  yes, I haven't decided what to do about capitalisation yet
02:03:29  I think it might involve one of the other buttons on the controller
02:03:46  digits, likewise
02:04:23  maybe there could be US-TTY-style modes, uppercase letters / lowercase letters / digits and punctuation
02:04:43  I've no idea how you'd enter digits at all
02:05:07  in a modal system it's easy enough, the hard part is remembering where they are
02:06:46  fwiw I'm pretty sure the left analog stick should move the cursor (but I haven't implemented that yet) – and I was planning to have a sort of mark/point-style selection system where any edit moves the mark to the point of the edit
02:06:57  but I'm not sure what to do with the selections after creating them
02:08:02  (I was considering making selection / cursor movement be based on the gyro, but haven't figured out how to get my computer and controller to talk to each other in such a way that the gyro is usable)
02:08:18  eww no
02:08:44  it would be done in such a way that gyro movement never had any effect other than moving a marker showing where the gyro was aiming, until you pressed a key to confirm
02:08:56  and with a way to fine-adjust afterwards without using it
02:09:08  even then, though, I wasn't sure about the idea, would have to test it to see if it works
02:11:06  capital letters is what worries me the most, I've no idea how you'd type them without freeing up something that you're currently using
02:12:35  the rest I can imagine fitting there, like cursor movement and editing, a digits lock, and an escape for rare characters
02:13:57  I think another button would be involved
02:14:31  also there's a lot of unused space in "hold a consonant and type two vowels"
02:14:40  it might be possible to replace one or two of those eight punctuation marks
02:14:53  and a lot of buttons that aren't currently in use
02:16:09  in my initial testing, I was making moving the left analog stick diagonally down-right do a newline (it feels satisfyingly return-like) although I haven't implemented it yet – it seems like that might not conflict with the use for cursor movement, unless you wanted to insert a newline mid-line
02:34:33  I'm assuming if you press the left stick you enter something like vi's normal mode where the d-pad and face buttons and their combinations let you enter editing commands, and the left d-pad moves the cursor. in normal mode, i takes you back to insert mode; u places the mark; y copies text between mark and cursor to the clipboard; e deletes text between mark and cursor; l pastes text; c and g let you 
02:34:39  enter any one character by typing two or four hex digits respectively where each of the 16 hex digits is assigned somehow to the d-pad and face buttons. pressing the right stick (in any mode or pressing t in normal mode) puts you into locking digits mode where 10 of the 16 button combos let you type a digit, the rest let you type a dot, a hyphen, a comma, go to insert mode, go to normal mode. space and 
02:34:45  backspace work the same in digit mode as in insert mode.
02:38:42  but I think you will have to replace the exclamation sign with a capital letter prefix. press it twice and it's a locking capital letter shift.
02:38:50  you'd make it not type a space of course
02:39:03  remember that there are two shoulder buttons on each side
02:39:15  yes, but not if you're using the Switch
02:39:18  I was considering using the back ones as capital letters or digit switches
02:39:18  with its joycons
02:39:25  no, the Switch has them too
02:39:34  they're called ZL and ZR
02:39:45  not usable in single-joycon mode, but usable with docked joycons
02:39:45  in a place where you can reach all four without awkwardness?
02:39:55  I'm not sure, I don't actually have a Switch
02:41:09  oh, I think you're right, they do have two shoulder buttons
02:41:23  that's good, then if you have a recent controller then you can use all four
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02:42:58  it's unclear what to use the right analog stick for, that has a lot of potential as well
02:43:34  but experimentation showed that analog sticks are extremely bad at digital inputs
02:43:41  so it should be something that's continuous in a sense
02:45:34  I think one of the sticks doesn't do entering text, it either moves the mouse cursor or moves to a different control than the current textarea
02:45:53  I'm not entirely sure what's left stick and what's right stick
02:47:00  oh, hmm, if we're thinking about use on a website, presumably one of them moves the cursor and the other one scrolls
02:47:21  right stick is traditionally the camera control, almost all games use it for that, so it would make sense to use it for scrolling
02:47:42  and left stick is player movement so that would be used to move the cursor
02:47:47  that's possible too, so you can move the text cursor only in normal mode
02:48:42  I think what right stick does is that it's a combination scroll and mouse cursor movement – it moves the cursor but it also scrolls (along with the cursor) to move the cursor as close to the centre of the screen as possible
02:48:45  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177547&oldid=177417 * BODOKE2801e * (+120) /* Examples */
02:48:52  (so that it only moves to the side once you reach an edge of the scrollable reagion)
02:48:53  * region
02:49:20  hmm
02:49:22  I dunno
02:49:34  I was thinking more along the lines of a webapp than a browser, though, when I wrote this (HTML/JS was a convenient way to make a cross-platform editor that could read a gamepad)
02:51:00  it doesn't have to be a browser, it could be some other program where you're entering text into a field then switching to other controls
02:51:25  you'd need that unless this is specifically just a text editor
02:53:04  well I was thinking that it would be a text-editing mode within a larger program
02:53:28  but if it isn't in the mode in question, then the controls don't really matter, you can have whatever clashes you like
02:53:28  if it's a text editor then right stick scrolls would make sense
02:54:12  well, you probably need some way to exit from text editing mode at least
02:55:20  so many unused combinations :-)
02:55:38  space + backspace is a good one for a global-menu type of thing
02:55:38  probably need to find a better way to enter digit lock mode
02:55:55  what? no, space+backspace deletes a word
02:56:04  or is that caps+backspace?
02:56:05  I don't think that'll be nearly as common
02:56:20  I think the back shoulder buttons are probably the best options for caps lock and digit lock
02:57:39  dunno, I use delete word often when I change my mind about what to type, as opposed to when I press the wrong key
02:58:30  I normally hold backspace for that
02:58:47  but caps lock and digit lock would make sense to change the scope of backspace
02:58:49  although you could add more functions to the backspace key if you press it in combination with some other button
02:58:55  they're basically shifts
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03:39:09  [[Nope]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177548&oldid=174205 * BODOKE2801e * (+0) /* Tips */  ASSCI
03:39:27  [[Nope]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177549&oldid=177548 * BODOKE2801e * (+1) /* Tips */ ASCI
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04:23:20  [[Ima gte. Ima dana/Operation table]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177550&oldid=177544 * BODOKE2801e * (+620) unfinished
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09:29:32  A thing: https://github.com/nevesnunes/z80-sans
10:29:33  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Mrmr2 *  New user account
11:22:12  Hi
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12:07:56  [[Template:Unf]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177551 * None1 * (+36) Used when the page is not finished, but the language is
12:10:31  [[ChangeFuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177552 * None1 * (+209) Created page with "{{lang|a=User:None1|i=[[brainfuck]] and [[Malbolge]]. It's [[brainfuck]] but every command has a wierd side effects on the memory or program, in order to make programs hard to be written.  ==Commands== {{Unf}}"
12:13:16  [[ChangeFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177553&oldid=177552 * None1 * (+175) 
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12:57:52  ok, so after sleeping over this, ais523's text entry scheme makes more sense in that it's elegant, but I still think it will be a problem that you're often not allowed to overlap presses from your two hands and this will slow you down. how much problem this is in practice I don't know.
13:26:41  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Qpx5997 *  New user account
13:30:52  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177554&oldid=177528 * Qpx5997 * (+120) 
13:35:52  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177555&oldid=177554 * Qpx5997 * (+88) 
13:39:38  [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177556 * Qpx5997 * (+236) Created page with " is a [[joke language list|joke language]] created by qpx5997 which uses emojis as part of its syntax. Its demo version has been released at [https://github.com/qpx5997/ewemohcheese/ this page].  more to be added soon!"
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13:54:08  [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177557&oldid=176532 * Qpx5997 * (+79) 
14:31:59  Yay, my color mixing plans are coming together: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez2-mixer-2.jpg is the simple version and https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez2-mixer-3.jpg the perfectly balanced one (with some logic externalized, that's the extra 1x1 platform)
14:57:40  [[Template talk:Unf]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177558 * Aadenboy * (+323) Created page with "[[Template:Stub]] already exists for this purpose ~~~~"
14:58:28  int-e: so you're saying that unlike in shapez 1, low latency isn't as important here, so it's fine to mix colors based on control signal inputs?
15:02:41  [[User:OskuDev]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177559 * OskuDev * (+391) Created page with "I-I-I-I just bought more land in the metaverse Now I'm getting paid cash with Atlas Earth (Yeah) Got virtual land all across the globe (Across the globe)  The next wave is digital Catch me on the way up The glow up is visible Cop a couple more Watch my income go up 
15:02:44  Yes. The MAM shapes have formulas like... for the n-th shape, deliver 1e3 * 1.04^(n-1) of them (and that's the slowest growing one), capped at 2^31. This is divided by some factor that for me is 5 and goes up to 12. So... initially, latency matters. But exponential growth will make the effect negligible quickly.
15:03:14  (A full belt carries 180 items per minute.)
15:03:31  [[Template talk:Unf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177560&oldid=177558 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+120) 
15:03:32  [[User:OskuDev]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177561&oldid=177559 * OskuDev * (+12) 
15:04:07  for how many items does one of these paint mixing sectors supply paint?
15:04:14  how many delivered items
15:04:24  because that decides how often they have to switch
15:04:37  This is planning for 12 belts. This is for the painting quarters stage.
15:05:37  yeah, that does sound like the exponential growth will be fast enough 
15:12:03  Let me see real numbers. I mean, at first the latency will feel very significant still: One MAM goal sits at 28k, which with factor 5 and 12 bytes is  2m35s; the other one sits at 9.2k which is 51s. But for each goal completed,shape delivered
15:13:25  But the first one goes up by 7% per completed goal, and the second one by 4%. So soon enough it'll take hours anyway.
15:13:28  [[ChangeFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177562&oldid=177553 * Aadenboy * (+0) stub
15:13:47  12 bytes? 12 belts!
15:13:48  wow
15:14:01  I guess they sound vaguely similar?
15:14:28  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177563&oldid=177543 * Aadenboy * (+0) fix example
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15:18:42  b_jonas: It's safe to say that I'm spending way more time on designing this stuff than I expect to wait for the resulting latency. :)
15:22:08  yes, that's normal 
15:23:10  Well in shapez 1 if you were pushing silly goals like reaching level 100k, the story would be different :P
15:25:06  The highest "operator level" I've seen for shapez 2 is below 1.7k and maybe 650 of those levels came from MAM shapes.
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15:26:08  [[Thisthat]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177564&oldid=175582 * Aadenboy * (+0) /* Update order */
15:27:53  And I'm convinced that there's *months* of playtime on that one, though I have not seen any actual number for that.
15:28:19  (mostly idling, I hope)
15:29:12   ok, so after sleeping over this, ais523's text entry scheme makes more sense in that it's elegant, but I still think it will be a problem that you're often not allowed to overlap presses from your two hands and this will slow you down. how much problem this is in practice I don't know. ← my opinion is similar to this, it appears to be a problem to some extent but I don't know how much or whether it could be easily fixed by requiring a minimum 
15:29:13  duration for the overlap
15:29:40  I find my accidental overlaps were usually consonant to vowel at the end of a word, e.g. "twe" instead of "the"
15:30:30  but it could well become more of a problem as I get faster
15:30:55  (in the case of "twe" it could easily be made an alias for "the", like "teh" is in Microsoft Word)
15:38:03  that could work, you'd just need a short regex for exceptions for real words starting with "twe", like twenty, twelve, etc. the only conflict is probably the rare word "twee".
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15:54:27  [[Template talk:Unf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177565&oldid=177560 * Corbin * (+149) 
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16:11:04  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177566&oldid=177555 * Mrmr2 * (+83) /* Introductions */
16:11:33  [[C/Cb]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177567 * Mrmr2 * (+616) Made the initial page
16:11:36  b_jonas: oh, I was thinking more the one specific word
16:12:42  really if I want to be serious about this I should write typing speed testing programs for the new layout, and have them record the times of the inputs for both typos and correctly spelled words, and then try to determine if there's a clear difference in the timings that could be used to tell apart intentional from unintentional overlaps
16:12:47  [[C/Cb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177568&oldid=177567 * Mrmr2 * (+8) /* Examples */  changed hi mom to hello world
16:12:58  and then force myself to get faster and see if the patterns change
16:15:50  that, and try to find other input methods
16:22:42  [[C/Cb]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177569&oldid=177568 * Aadenboy * (-12) 
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17:20:31  [[Iterate]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177570&oldid=175578 * Aadenboy * (+47) Compiled Iterate file extension
17:22:45  [[List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177571&oldid=174880 * Aadenboy * (+30) add [[Compiled Iterate]]
17:23:04  [[Compiled Iterate]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177572 * Aadenboy * (+33) Redirected page to [[Iterate/Compilation]]
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18:49:20  ok, so I used to have the impression that the C and C++ rules for how different compilation units has to match are very different, because I didn't know how the C rules work. I have now read more about the C rules, and they aren't *that* strange. So both C++ and C say that if a global function or object is declared in multiple compilation units then those declarations must be compatible. Also if those 
18:49:26  declarations refer to a struct/union then in all compilation units among these where that struct/union is defined, that struct/union must be defined in a compatible way too. There are two main differences between C++ and C here. (1) C++ is stricter in what it considers compatible. In insists that two declarations can only be compatible if they match both in syntax tokenwise (after preprocessing) and 
18:49:32  semantics. C wants exactly the same semantics but allows syntax differences, eg. it sees through typedefs so doesn't care if you mention a type directly in one declaration but through a typedef in another, doesn't care about the position of the const/volatile/signed/unsigned/long/short keywords nor about optional signed/int keywords, and only wants array lengths to be equal rather than spelled the same 
18:49:38  way. 
18:50:20  (2) C++ insists that if two compilation units declare a struct/union with the same name in the same namespace then they must be compatible; C allows for different (incompatible) struct/union types in the same name as long as their definitions never meet in the same compilation units.
18:52:04  To be clear, for C struct/union defined in two compilation units to be compatible, it still needs the name of the struct/union and the name of its members the same.
18:55:31  Afaiu, this means that if you have a set of C compilation units, then as far as global declarations are concerned, you can mostly convert them to C++ compilation units by putting different struct/union types into different namespaces, changing references to those struct/union types everywhere to refer to that namespace, then replacing all definitions of each struct/union with the exact same spelling of 
18:55:37  that declaration. You'll have to replace arrays of runtime length with arrays of unspecified length, because arays of runtime length don't exist in C++. You're screwed if the C code uses _Atomic or C complex, because C++ doesn't have those features.
18:57:35  Also afaiu, nobody bothered to write a general standard for how you're supposed to use C and C++ together, such as when the declaration of a global function or object in a C compilation unit is compatible with that in a C++ compilation unit. You just have to hope that putting a struct/union in any namespace on the C++ side is fine. 
18:57:56  Oh, also you have to mark functions extern "C" on the C++ side, that much is clear.
18:59:38  [[COSOL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177573&oldid=123664 * SirBrahms * (-3) Update Implementation Link
19:00:56  [[User talk:Sporeball]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177574&oldid=82558 * Sporeball * (-139) clear
19:03:16  There are rules at the machine code and ELF level documented, as in how these types of structures and functions are represented in compiled code, but those are much omre relaxed than the C or C++ level rules.
19:04:18  It's kind of like a two chinas situation, nobody wants to write a documentation that refers to both C and C++ and define exactly how they combine.
19:04:41  But I think now I'm at least closer to understanding the expectations.
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19:09:22  The complication is that the much more relaxed representation rules come into effect if you combine C with some other language, like export or call functions from rust or direct machine code. You don't give a full C type, so the same function that you implement in rust or assembly with a C-compatible interface could be referred to by multiple incompatible C declarations. If you want to make a C 
19:09:28  implementation for a new platform that does more strict typechecking between compilation units, it will have to allow much more differences than even the relaxed C rules to accomodate functions not defined in C.
19:10:26  This could be true even if you're adding extensions to an existing platform where object files can optionally contain more strict type information and that's checked across compilation units.
19:10:59  You could still give *warnings* for when the C rules are broken across translation units of course.
19:11:51  Presumably it should be defined so that if you write extern "C" then it will be compatible, although I don't know if this might need to change some of the C++ rules for that circumstance to make it compatible in this way.
19:14:58  `unidecode d›e
19:15:04  ​[U+0064 LATIN SMALL LETTER D] [U+009B ] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E]
19:15:55  This goes both ways by the way: whether you define a function in C and import it to rust or define a function in rust and import it to C, you have have multiple different rust declarations that are compatible with the same C declaration, and multiple different C declarations compatible with the same rust declaration. The names of struct/union and the names of their members don't need to match, for one, 
19:16:01  and there can be layers of rust wrappers such as transparent structs, MaybeUninit, UnsafeCell, and more. The three integer ranks int, long, long long don't correspond in a straightforward way to the three integer ranks in rust i32, isize, i64.
19:18:34  Also a C pointer or const pointer can correspond to a rust raw mut pointer, raw const pointer, std::ptr::NonNull, reference, mut reference, Box.
19:20:06  There are probably even some open-ended questions of some of the corners of how the C and rust memory models can interact.
19:24:12  b_jonas: so "twe" is actually quite common, e.g. "outweigh" or "retweet"
19:24:21  [[Prehistory]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177575 * Corbin * (+58) Redirecting for a commonly-visited humor page. Feel free to replace this.
19:24:25  oh, and "between" although that's common enough to likely be in a dictionary
19:24:29  ais523: yes, but I think you convert it to "the" only at the start of words
19:24:36  "twelve"
19:25:10  most of the complications around w is because it's logically a vowel but I had run out of space on the vowel wheel (l is more important)
19:25:24  ais523: yes, I did say “you'd just need a short regex for exceptions for real words starting with ‘twe’, like twenty, twelve, etc.”
19:25:33  right
19:25:35  I think there are too many of them
19:25:41  [[Object-oriented paradigm]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177576&oldid=169181 * Corbin * (+33) /* See also */ Redlink a new topic. Because the number of topics here could be as many as several dozen, it's not appropriate to do the subsection/main-article wine-tasting approach that we have in e.g. [[computable]] or [[monoid]] or [[prehistory]].
19:25:45  to be sure that we have them all
19:26:25  "twerk" is in my /usr/share/dict/words but it's a comparatively new word that didn't exist a few decades ago
19:26:36  so it is reasonable to expect that new "twe" words may be coined
19:26:39  too many of them if you insist on a full list of words; not too many if you're fine with prefixes, like anything starting with "twent" or "twelv" or "twelf", so you don't list each of "twentyone twentytwo twentythree twentyfour ... twentynine" separately
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19:28:50  [[User:Sporeball]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177577&oldid=91661 * Sporeball * (+69) update user page
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19:29:25  interestingly, the fastest known typing method (stenotype) doesn't actually do very many strokes per second, the reason it's fast is that each stroke presses a lot of keys at once so there are millions of possible strokes, and most of the goal of the system is to create a method of assigning strokes to words that humans are able to memorize
19:29:39  ais523: keep /^twe(nt|l[vf]|ak|e[dtnz]|erp/ 
19:30:04  that has unbalanced parens I think?
19:30:09  oh yes
19:30:14  ais523: keep /^twe(nt|l[vf]|ak|e[dtnz]|erp)/ 
19:31:00  that works for every word in my /usr/share/dict/words except "twerk"/"twerks" (which are new enough that they might not be in yours)
19:31:22  but, I find I am more likely to make that sort of overlap-error at the end of a word rather than the start
19:37:02  it is possible to make the transformation more conservative, covering only common words that start with "the" and keeping "twe" for anything dubious, in which case for some rare words that start with "the" you have to be careful not to overlap the "h" with the "e". it wouldn't be shorter to code the list, but it might be better for typing.
19:37:15  the transformation of "twe" to "the" at the start of a word
19:41:13  like transform /^twe(at|[fimostwy]|/theen\W|nc|r\W|r[aem])/
19:41:18  argh
19:41:30  like transform /^twe(at|[fimostwy]|\W|nc|r\W|r[aem])/
19:42:12  neither "twer" nor "ther" is a real word
19:42:32  yes, but "ther" is closer
19:42:51  [[Talk:Arbitrary memory emulation]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177578&oldid=175207 * Aadenboy * (+429) 
19:43:04  I feel like if I were typing a non-word I would slow down and make sure to get the letters correct
19:43:24  yeah, you can keep that one as "twer", doesn't matter
19:43:49  I was testing my typing algorithm on #esolangs logs (in order to get a sufficient amount of plausible text that I hadn't seen before) and backspacing was basically only required for acronyms and the like
19:43:59  which I was typing out quite slowly as a consequence
19:44:05  the one tricky case is if what to do with "twee" as a full word, because "twee" is a real word but "thee" is a much more common real word
19:44:55  I'm not certain about your claims about relative frequency there – "thee" used to be very common but isn't very common nowadays
19:44:55  hmm, that's still messed up
19:45:07  transform /^twe(\W|at|[fimostwy]|n\W|nc|r[aem])/
19:45:22  "twen" is important to transport to "then", that's very common
19:48:10  apparently "thee" is over 256 times as common as "twee" in Google Ngrams data, although it's likely biased by including a lot of old books
19:48:20  [[Naked object]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177579 * Corbin * (+1078) Stub a niche concept from the OOP world.
19:48:45  b_jonas: hmm, I feel like "them" is just as likely a typo (probably more likely) but that's also a very common word so you couldn't correct it
19:49:19  sorry? why is "them" relevant?
19:49:32  b_jonas: if you overlap e and n rather than h and e
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19:50:06  oh, do you mean type between "them" and "then" because the typer's fingers think that the "th" switches m/n even past the vowel?
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19:51:03  yeah, it'll be easy to type "then" as "them"
19:51:25  not much you can do about close pairs like that unless you want to make the system much more complicated with lots of exceptional shortcuts
19:51:53  b_jonas: not the "th" switch beyond the vowel (although there was a bug in an earlier version that did that), but pressing the "n" before fully releasing the "e" due to typing quickly
19:52:09  like you'll always have "we" vs "he", or "am" vs "an", "was" vs "has"
19:52:19  I guess you could make it so that overlapping a consonant with a vowel on *both* sides turned it back to the original version
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20:06:03  [[Naked object]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177580&oldid=177579 * Corbin * (+76) /* Examples */ Forgot one.
20:06:27  ok, so weird idea, what if you swap space and backspace, so ZL1 is space and ZR1 is backspace, and you no longer care about a vowel overlapping a consonant, but backspace works as a shift for secondary consonants (usually kmbzvwxd), and it backspaces only if you press and release it without any other button in between? 
20:08:53  or something similar with ZL1 is space, ZR1 is alternate consonant shift, ZL2 is backspace, and you put the digit mode and edit mode on either combinations or on the stick presses? the alternate consonant shift doesn't change the vowels, so you get some freedom in when exactly you press and release it in relation to other letters
20:14:18  probably not good ideas but I think we at least have to consider it
20:16:39  hmm no, we can't multiplex backspace with alternate consonant shift because you said you want to hold backspace for deleting multiple characters and that would make the UI confusing
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20:36:02  my earlier plans had an alt-consonant shift
20:36:26  I found it was awkward to synchronize it with the actual consonants
20:36:56  but, that was before I came up with the two-wheel method with consonants on one hand and vowels on the other
20:37:26  you could multiplex it with forward space easily enough (tap the button with no other keys held for space, overlap it with a consonant to reach the second set of consonants)
20:39:02  not really, you do wnat to overlap space with the last letter of the previous word often
21:41:29  [[G Sharp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177581&oldid=174541 * Ractangle * (+60) 
22:09:08  cu
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23:18:56  b_jonas: fwiw I realised that Start/Select are probably good buttons to use to leave edit mode entirely
23:19:08  so we don't need an option for that elsewhere
23:28:10  ais523: yeah, possibly
23:30:41  ooh, idea – the original idea of this was for a programming environment – could we create a programming language whose APIs only use the 16 primary letters?
23:30:57  few words seem to need the 10 rare ones
23:31:38  that way, typing the rare letters would only be required for string literals and comments
23:32:25  (even so, I think you'd want to use some API-and-type-driven technique for entering code, rather than typing it out, so the gain from 16-primary-letter APIs would just be in making the lists faster to filter)
23:35:08  ais523: so you'd make identifiers not only case-insensitive but also vowel sounding insensitive?
23:35:20  case-insensitive and vocalisation-insensitive, yes
23:35:57  although some of the pairs aren't voiced/unvoiced (e.g. mn are very similar but it's a different distinction from voicing, and wh aren't really the same letter at all)
23:36:16  yeah
23:36:37  and c and g are both primary letters even though g is the voiced version of k and c is usually pronounced like k
23:37:30  would "q" be considered equivalent to "h" or to "c"?
23:37:53  I was actually planning to just avoid the rare letters altogether
23:37:56  lipogram-style
23:38:08  so what they would be equivalent to doesn't matter
23:38:17  it might be a bit weird to not have a .equals, though
23:38:38  hmm
23:39:20  would you also restrict which punctuation the language can use? because that would likely force you to use more alphabetic keywords or identifiers
23:39:52  my current plans are that operators are equivalent to method calls
23:40:01  you type the method name but it displays as the operator
23:40:14  x + y would be x.add(y), perhaps, and the IDE can swap back and forth between them
23:40:33  ok, but even discounting that, some programming languages need a lot of punctuation characters
23:41:11  that said, I am increasingly thinking that it is wrong for a language to provide arithmetic operators, except perhaps if it is based around bignums – doing arithmetic correctly is difficult and has a lot of edge and corner cases that need specifying, and one operator isn't enough for that
23:41:15  if you want to mark comments and string literals and stuff
23:42:05  the arithmetic can be just ordinary non-privilaged library functions, many languages these days do that
23:42:08  yes
23:42:32  I feel like you'd want a syntax that was mostly equivalent to Lisp's, but maybe rendered more nicely
23:42:48  although, hmm, still want method chaining
23:43:09  x.add(y.add(z)) and the like is basically homoiconic but I don't think it's equivalent to either s-expressions or m-expressions
23:43:30  I do want to cheat that a little bit in enchain in that the conditionals are built-in so the language knows about the integer type and that nonzero integers of that type are truthy, but the rest of arithmetic are just ordinary functions 
23:44:02  as in there's only one integer type that you can use for conditionals directly
23:44:23  enchain is compile-time typed
23:45:07  hmm, how does an if statement work in this syntax
23:45:13  a.if(b, c)
23:45:21  would need either CBN or a special case to work properly, but it seems fine
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23:46:50  I have to be careful about this because this is one of those decisions that I can't just change in a later language extension -- I very much want to make just a first version of Enchain that later versions can extend, though in practice (1) I probably won't bother to actually make those extensions and (2) even if I do I'll probably make some of them incompatible, but I want to at least try
23:47:10  maybe the right special case is that methods can choose to be CBN and doing that is marked by the IDE at the callsite, even though the syntax doesn't technically change
23:47:48  I guess there's always the closure option of a.if(||b, ||c) but that's terrible :-D
23:50:16  yeah, there are all sorts of different solutions for this. smalltalk/ruby/postscript/GML makes it easy to pass closures to such functions. haskell is call by name. scheme makes if a built-in but gives a macro system so you can define macros with interface similar to that built-in. 
23:50:50  Haskell is call-by-need, which doesn't work for a while statement (but Haskell can't meaningfully express a traditional while statement anyway due to not having side effects in the traditional sense)
23:51:22  huh, I just realised that TCL is basically call-by-name, except for strings
23:51:37  (and integers but those are also strings)
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23:59:32  prolog has an awkward mixture where functions like , and ; and -> take code as their arguments, but it's still awkward to write a while loop 

2026-03-12:

00:00:29  Mathematica is somewhat like scheme where you can define ordinary functions that take their arguments by value, or macro-like functions that take their arguments unevaluated, and there's a third kind that takes only the first argument unevaluated.
00:00:33  the basic problem is that Prolog's closest equivalents to closures/lambdas are super-awkward
00:01:29  that said, something like Brachylog could do a while loop pretty easily – I wonder if it has one?
00:04:09  looks like it doesn't have one: I suppose it has enough other types of loops that they usually aren't necessary, so nobody really noticed
00:04:40  you can write all sorts of looping library functions that doesn't require mutable variables, similar to in haskell 
00:04:48  I mean you can do that in prolog
00:04:54  actually ⁱ can be viewed as a do-while loop, but a weirdly written one
00:05:15  it repeatedly runs the predicate/block it applies to until the rest of the program succeeds
00:05:58  (Brachylog doesn't have mutable state even though Prolog does)
00:08:45  oh, this discussion reminds me – I have decided that it is usually better for assignment operators to assign rightwards, i.e. 2 → x rather than x := 2
00:09:36  ais523: is that in languages that are usually formatted right-aligned, so you can scan the more straight right edge of the code for where a variable is assigned to?
00:09:46  or also in languages that are formatted left-aligned?
00:09:54  b_jonas: both, I hadn't thought about alignment
00:09:57  this matters if you type the code from left to right
00:10:08  I can see an argument that you might want to make it clear when each variable is written to
00:10:32  I want a language that's right-aligned and not just assignements are on the right but the function is usually on the right of its arguments
00:10:49  or a backwards APL-like where a function is usually after its first argument
00:10:51  hmm, interesting
00:10:59  function after first argument, I agree
00:11:28  I think more and more languages are moving in that direction (but not enough of them and not quickly enough)
00:11:28  this is annoying because you need to modify your editor for it
00:12:51  in a golfing language I've been working on, the top level of the program is written in such a way that the output of each statement is implicitly the first argument of the next statement, which isn't explicitly specified
00:13:24  (it uses forward-Polish for the remaining arguments, although usually degenerate cases of it)
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00:15:14  Enchain is defined to support both a left-aligned and a right-aligned mode, but probably only in the language definition -- since I don't have a right-aligned edition it's unlikely that I'll actually use or implement the right aligned mode. In Enchain arguments can always be either before or after functions. But there's a scoping operator that I haven't talked of yet, which lets you create local 
00:15:20  variables sort of like C scope braces. In left-aligned mode (wimpmode) variables on the column of the opening brace or to the right are local; in right-aligned mode (turtle mode) variables on the column of the opening brace and to the left of it are local. This makes the two modes assymetric, but I think is the right way for braces to work in either case. 
00:17:22  how does indentation work in a right-aligned language?
00:17:26  The local variables are both unrelated to any variable in the same column mentioned outside of the pair of braces, and if the braces are in a function body then their lifetime is restricted to the function call but if the function is called multiple times recursively then there's a separate copy of each call stack.
00:18:23  plenty of editors can do right-alignment; basically all word processors can, and HTML textarea probably can too
00:18:39  and almost certainly Emacs although I'm not sure how to configure it like that
00:20:26  ais523: yes, but most editors aren't too helpful in editing something like Enchain where the specific columns matter because columns work like variable names, and I think the few editors that have a mode that help there don't do right-aligned across variable line lengths, so the best you can do is edit fixed line lengths then remove the spaces from the beginning of all lines.
00:20:59  don't you just add trailing spaces to push a line further to the left?
00:21:20  also I believe that no word processor supports tabs in right-aligned mode the way Enchain expects them, but of course tabs are optional and this is academic because nobody will write code with tabs because we don't have the tools to edit them.
00:21:35  ais523: yes, you add trailing spaces to push the line further to the left
00:21:50  this seems to work: data:text/html,
00:22:20  complete with trailing spaces to push lines leftwards
00:22:53  it doesn't accept tabs (although shouldn't such a system actually be using backtabs?)
00:23:31  ais523: even without tabs it's hard: you need overwrite mode so you can change a character without changing other characters in the same line, 
00:23:57  well, you don't need it, I've done plenty of vertically aligned editing without (but it does help)
00:24:05  and ideally you also want to be able to move the cursor down to get to the same column of a later line and write something in that line in a way where if the line is too short the editor inserts enough spaces to write in that column
00:24:29  some editors can do these in left-aligned mode at least, but I don't know if any can do it in right-aligned mode directly
00:24:49  yeah
00:26:45  if you really want then in theory can write programs in a language like enchain on programming paper with a pre-printed grid then transcribe them to punch cards (though Enchain uses ASCII character set so you need a punched card representation for backtick and tilde and caret etc)
00:27:05  but you'll have fixed-width lines
00:27:46  left-aligned is easier because a teletype can print variable-length left-aligned lines even if it doesn't have RAM, for printing right-aligned lines you need to buffer a line in RAM before actually printing it
00:28:27  so there's a fundamental assymetry
00:29:16  it doesn't matter today because every device today has enough RAM to buffer a line
00:30:02  what about using RTL character order?
00:30:16  I guess that'd be annoying to type, though, so it'd only be useful as a transmission format
00:31:02  then you just have the equivalent of a left-aligned language, it's not fundamentally different from an ordinary left-aligned language it's just mirrored
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00:33:01  it's useful if most of your identifiers are in a natural language that's written right to left
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00:40:12  there's a third direction: you can make an editor mode to write a language backwards compared to how its characters are represented in a file, like an editor that lets you write C code backwards so you type the arguments before the function, or the rvalue before the lvalue in an assignment. it's a bit tricky because you want to type each token forwards and the lexical syntax might not work backwards so 
00:40:18  you may have to type extra token separators sometimes, but it can mostly work. then other programmers and compilers can still read your program the way they're used to but you're typing it in a way that may make more sense.
00:41:23  of course then comma/semicolon sequencing will be backwards for you, in an imperative program you type first the statement that's run later
00:42:09  and in languages like C where the order of declarations matter, you'll have to type those backwards too, using a name before you declare it
00:43:02  of course that's only the default, you can probably still type code in whatever order you want and jump around while editing
00:44:16  Enchain is imperative where execution normally goes forwards in the same direction as the characters in code, 
00:44:41  modified of course by function calls and gotos.
00:58:30  [[Ima gte. Ima dana/Operation table]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177582&oldid=177550 * BODOKE2801e * (+337) 
01:02:29  [[Ima gte. Ima dana/Operation table]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177583&oldid=177582 * BODOKE2801e * (+51) 
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04:29:57  [[Bit-ter lang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177584 * BODOKE2801e * (+883) Created page with "'''Bit-ter lang''' is a [[Esolang]] made by [[User:BODOKE2801e]], it is memoryless and works on binary, and here's a joke about the lang: What is the most bitter lang? Bit-ter lang  ==Commands===   ! is input  0 is false  1 is true  | outputs the next thing   ne
05:35:27  Do you think it could work for a video card to work: Each window has a "frame program" and a "pixel program", which use different instruction sets; only the frame program has flow controls and the ability to write memory, but the pixel program has no flow controls, and there is a limit of how many instructions can be reads. (A window has several other properties as well, such as the colour index mask bits)
05:40:04  current video cards are a bit like that but more advanced – I think it would work for a retrocomputing video card but wouldn't be able to compete with the current generation of video cards
05:42:24  I'm actually not sure what machine code video cards use internally because none of them let you write it directly, instead you give source code and there's a compiler in the driver
05:43:23  zzo38: You want to run the frame programs on the GPU? The pixel programs sound a lot like fragment shaders, where "fragment" is just the GL term for pixel.
05:43:38  (I do not have any desire to do such things as 3D graphics with lighting and that stuff in real time, although I do consider such things as security to be necessary (so that one window's programs cannot read or write the memory or parameters of other windows, unless some memory is assigned to multiple windows).)
05:44:02  korvo: Yes, I did think the pixel program is similar to a fragment shader.
05:44:18  ais523: They're just register machines with a basic return stack that allows for some loops and subroutines. There's not much magic. I can point you at some AMD/ATI datasheets if you want to look at ISAs.
05:45:27  seems about right
05:45:30  (The frame program might be used for such a thing as cursor blinking, although there might be other uses as well; many windows might not need a frame program.)
05:46:11  zzo38's design doesn't have a vertex shader, but I think those are primarily useful for 3D graphics, so it makes sense to leave it out if that isn't a goal
05:46:31  The only interesting instructions to me compared to other DSPs are DDX and DDY, taking partial derivatives in screen space. These are done by running pixels in a 2x2 grid and taking finite differences. You can take the derivative of any local variable this way, which is kind of cool. This sort of thing is why GPUs can only render in 8x8 or 16x16 tiles. (Also tiled rendering's popular on embedded GPUs.)
05:47:55  zzo38: There are some parts of the modern GPU that still work like that. At the extreme end, the hardware cursor's position is usually a pair of MMIO'd registers. I'm on Xorg, so every time I touch the mouse, Xorg gets a SIGIO, handles a USB event, and writes to MMIO.
05:51:03  I might also have sprites (which only display a picture at a position and have no programs associated with it); the mouse cursor is a sprite bound to the root window. And then, also window sets (one of which is displayed at once); my idea for a computer and operating system design will probably need three (one for normal use, one for full screen applications, and one for the system special screen).
05:51:52  Yeah, I didn't want to use the word "sprite" in case you weren't in that mindset, but it's the exact same concept.
05:53:04  It's worth knowing that the GPU used to have VGA. Like, literally there was a VGA BIOS and special VGA chips; when the card powered on, it would eventually get into a VGA mode. That stopped being the case in the 2010s.
05:54:21  Instead today the GPU starts in a kind of emergency mode that *maybe* emulates VGA a bit. The operating system is expected to boot the card. At the best end, Radeons and Intel chipsets require setting power policy and booting the 3D engine; at worst, nVidia famously requires a big opaque licensed blob which includes onboard memory management and a scheduler.
05:55:17  ...Sorry, that's an ambiguous phrase. The nVidia drivers have to compile and deliver a blob onto the GPU, a mix of microcode and GPU bytecode, before the GPU can pretend to be VGA or whatever.
05:56:38  But this is how zzo38's frame programs might run. The frame program doesn't do any fragment handling directly, but it could still instruct the GPU's memory controller.
05:57:08  korvo: I think even nVidia GPUs are able to show bootloader comments during early boot, before the OS (which would contain the GPU driver) has loaded
05:57:39  although IIRC nowdays nVidia ships the blob in question on the graphics card itself rather than having the OS do it
05:58:36  ais523: so it turns out that the rust devs are ahead of you and prepared for identifiers being insensitive to consonant voicing differences, and that's why they named the trait for the modulo operator std::ops::Rem instead of std::ops::Mod, because the latter would collide with std::ops::Not
05:58:47  The legendary cancelled Intel GPU board, Larrabee, would have been so cool here. Larrabee was literally about 120 Pentium 3 cores on a PCIe board. x86 is pretty good at describing memory hierarchies at a distance, so we could imagine that a frame program is just one dedicated GPU core which instructs shared memory controllers. This sort of dedicated scheduling would have to happen anyway for hundreds of cores.
05:58:51  b_jonas: :-D
05:59:54  ais523: Yeah. To facilitate that, nVidia's policy is to open-source a basic boot driver for any operating system that pays them, and also for Linux and BSD as a show of goodwill. The driver, "nv", is full of magic numbers and is basically obfuscated. It *is* legal portable C, I guess.
05:59:58  korvo: hmm, don't architectures like Knight's Landing have a lot in common with GPUs?
06:00:36  But in the 2010s the GPUs started to change so that they no longer have 2D engines. They also are starting to drop video engines; it's all GPGPU again in the 2030s, I imagine.
06:00:48  although GPUs are more pervasively SIMD
06:01:17  for really early GPUs I think of things like the NES PPU
06:01:25  which was extremely fixed-pipeline
06:01:47  ais523: I guess? You hit it precisely; it's SIMD. It's also MIMD in some cases, like programming for the Cell on the Playstation 3.
06:02:16  I mean that I don't know much about Knight's Landing. I know a bit about AMD APUs, which are definitely more GPU-like.
06:03:14  Wikipedia says 72 cores, 4 threads per core, and it does AVX-512
06:03:24  so not really a GPGPU but moving in that sort of direction
06:03:30  ais523: Oh, have you heard of "supershaders"? There's this interesting pattern in GL 2 where emulation of GL 1.4 is best done by writing more-or-less the entire GL 1.4 rendering pipeline as a per-fragment process. One shader to rule them all.
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06:03:35  (the cores themselves are just a fairly normal x86 but with weird performance properties)
06:03:58  korvo: I've heard of them but have trouble remembering the details
06:03:59  Some of the window parameters might be a tile counter and the horizontal and vertical tile counter divider, to avoid needing multiplication and division for the common case of implementing a tiled screen (a PC text mode emulation would be one example of this). Some parameters (such as these) might be readable and writable by frame programs, while the window position would be a inaccessible parameter.
06:04:06  a sort of "compile once run anything" I think?
06:05:02  Yeah, basically. The supershader is given a bunch of "uniforms" and "varyings", which are different ways of binding global variables. Also textures are bound in the normal way, TCL (transform, clipping, lighting) is done with standard per-vertex processing, etc.
06:06:38  Surprisingly, this is a correct way to do GL 1.4 emulation! It's fast enough. One might think that it's very expensive to send a literal packet of uniforms in the GPU's command buffer, but it's not. The expense is always in binding textures.
06:06:59  The Dolphin emulation suite uses supershaders, for a real-world example.
06:07:10  is this the sort of thign where the architectures evolve for ten more years and suddenly you look at them and you can no longer tell which chip is supposed to be the CPU and which one the GPU because they've become so similar?
06:07:30  it's basically the GPU version of an interpreter, by the sound of it
06:07:51  b_jonas: I'm not sure
06:08:02  there are always going to be programs that parallelize poorly
06:08:14  Oh, they didn't call them that. https://dolphin-emu.org/blog/2017/07/30/ubershaders/
06:08:37  one program I'm working on is CPU-bound and embarassingly parallel but it can't reasonably make use of SIMD because it involves a lot of 64×64=128 multiplications
06:08:46  x86-64 has a builtin for that but it only works on scalars
06:09:22  and I think vectorising the non-multiplication bits would cost more in moving bytes around than it would gain in parallelised arithmetic
06:09:27  GPU drivers do not have good shader compilers. They have, at best, a slightly outdated copy of LLVM. I think that if somebody wants to wield libdrm directly, they could probably just emit their own bytecode. This is what makes shaders expensive to load.
06:10:04  The GPU doesn't really need to context switch. The GPU's expenses are all about updating memory: caches, mappings, DMA'd buffers.
06:11:19  korvo: is it actually possible to emit your own bytecode and send it to the CPU in the sense that an operating system can let a user program do that and you can't use that to elevate permissions?
06:11:20  b_jonas: Maybe one cursed part of this is subinterpreters. Like ais523 says, at some level this is about embedding an interpreter into the chip. x86 has an interpreter for x87, for example. amd64 has an interpreter for SSE.
06:11:30  well, GPUs do need to context switch precisely because updating memory is slow, so they swap threads out while they're in the middle of a memory load
06:11:48  b_jonas: Yes! Moreover, I can try to help you with that, and there's also an entire IRC channel (#dri-devel, they used to be called?) that can help.
06:12:23  not at the moment, but good to know, thank you
06:13:10  https://bpa.st/GWSRC here's ls on my /dev/dri. libdrm boils down to open() and ioctl(). Here you can see that if you have `video` or `render` group then you can do as you like.
06:14:06  There is also a concept of DRM master and VGA arbiter. (Bless kernel folks for these names.) DRM master is a userspace process that gets early priority over the screen and preempts all other DRM/DRI clients; that's usually Xorg or Wayland, to give you an idea of what sorts of responsibilities you'd have.
06:14:47  VGA arbiter is the idea that VGA BIOS comes with a lot of global state, so if you have two VGA adapters on your system then you need a global switch between them. This usually doesn't matter, right up until it does.
06:15:56  Sorry if I'm overeager. I'm drugged and sleep-deprived, but more importantly the GPU community is always starved for developers. There's only like a few hundred of us and we're really just compiler engineers with the patience to hack kernel and reboot the machine if we lock up the PCI bus by crashing the GPU.
06:19:32  ais523: are they 64 bit × 64 bit multiplications where you care about most of the 128 bits of the result?
06:19:51  when I taught GPU programming, the GPUs were somehow able to self-recover if they were crashed (but the sort of crashes we're talking about are null-dereferences and the like which are probably easy to recover from)
06:19:56  b_jonas: Oh! That was the shot, here's the chaser: the kernel has to *parse* userspace's submitted command buffers. The kernel's got a memory manager for GPU objects (okay, technically, it has two and a half GPU memory managers) and it will change your buffers to point to the right objects on the GPU for you. Hope the kernel doesn't have any parser bugs!
06:19:59  b_jonas: yss
06:20:01  * yes
06:20:36  Oh, also, hope the kernel doesn't insert fences wrongly. Or hope you got your fences right. Or hope that the fences are just slow and not misrendering. etc.
06:21:55  I think GPU programming is the only platform on which I've seen programmers encouraged to omit logically required fences on the basis that the hardware will automatically have enough fencing for the program to still work
06:22:21  presumably the optimiser knew enough about the technique to not mess with the fencing invariants itself, before the hardware saw it
06:23:14  Yeah. It's remarkable that, in GL, we need to use an extension just to get calloc() for GPU memory. This property is called "robustness" and in the 2000s it basically didn't exist; you could read Somebody Else's Framebuffer just by, like, mmap() and read().
06:24:23  To be fair, glClearBuffer() is really expensive if you're robust by default. Up until then, clearing a buffer was done by enqueing a draw command for a big black rect; the threat model wasn't there yet.
06:24:33  thinking about it, it shouldn't be too hard for a GPU to tell the OS kernel "I crashed running thread X, please recreate the graphics environment without the program that did that"
06:25:13  non-crashing overwrites of other threads' data would be harder to deal with
06:25:32  but you could use an MMU for that just like CPUs do (I suspect GPUs have MMUs nowadays even though they originally didn't)
06:25:47  korvo: and then your browser grows an extension to expose all that low-level stuff to websites, not just the high-level GL interface
06:26:15  that said, I would expect them not to have traditional TLBs and am not sure what they do instead (possibly some sort of manually loaded TLB?)
06:26:49  With my idea of how I would do it, effectively the GPU could not crash, and if one window has errors that prevent it from working, that does not affect any other windows (except possibly those that share memory with it, although I expect it would probably not affect those either)
06:27:15  oh right, I don't think I've told anyone how much I hate the name TLB yet
06:27:41  it's one of those names that makes no sense without an explanation, and then the explanation is just justifying the name, it doesn't help to make it a name that actually makes sense
06:27:47  ais523: couldn't they require the programs to use physical address pointers, so they can't freely choose addresses when they mmap, and the memory processor tracks which task can access each physical page?
06:28:08  b_jonas: that's possible but I don't think it has advantages over an MMU
06:28:17  you still need to check for permissions, you may as well do page-mapping in the process
06:28:51  I guess the pagetables would be smaller, meaning that you could maybe have fewer levels?
06:29:41  surely it has advantages over a an MMU that does address translation! the address translation with pages as small as 4 kilobytes is a large part of what makes the caches in CPUs so hard to optimize!
06:29:42  now I'm reminded of the way that some CPU architectures raise interrupts to ask the kernel to manually fill in the TLB, rather than pagewalking on their own
06:30:00  if you support only larger pages then it's less of a problem, but it's still complicated to support correctly
06:30:08  ais523: Not to explain to the professor how PCI works, but the way I think of it is that PCIe has limited bandwidth. The GPU's memory controller mostly has to make scheduling decisions about what to DMA next; it sees what's upcoming in the command queue, to give you an idea of how deep the decoding pipeline gets.
06:31:03  in CPUs the problem is that the CPU wants to use information from the L1 cache before it knows for sure that the translated address for the cache line matches the reqested address, and then has to be able to quickly change its mind if it turns out that the L1 cache hit was fake and it has to use a value from the L2 cache.
06:31:21  I'm told that this is the main reason that nouveau doesn't just have a full disassembly of the nVidia microcode. If it were that easy then they'd have done it, like people have done with x86 microcodes. But the nVidia blob contains a scheduler for the memory controller, or the moral equivalent.
06:31:55  the L1 cache wants to be very low latency so the translated address is available *almost* too late. the address translation is on a critical path
06:31:58  I was working one level higher than that, you can definitely say "please DMA this memory" in GPU source code (not in that many words but with the same effect), but I was just working at the level of "there will be some delay if you do this" and at my level of abstraction the details of the pipeline didn't matter
06:32:26  moreover, the L1 cache can't go larger than 8 times the page size, so we're stuck with the same L1 cache size in the best CPUs for decades
06:32:58  b_jonas: I like that description because it now makes me wonder whether the TLB is yet another skeuomorphism. Like, was there a person in the days of the telegraph or switched telephone that had a little side table, and on the table was a big book of addresses, and the operator had to physically look at the side table...
06:33:26  b_jonas: maybe the solution here is some sort of noalias caching, in the sense that you just ban accessing memory that would be appear to be a cache hit but actually isn't
06:33:41  Wait, L1 cache is based on *page* size? Is this an x86 detail?
06:33:51  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177585&oldid=177566 * EsolangerII * (+57) /* Introductions */
06:34:15  GPUs have two sorts of memory, one of which works a lot like CPU memory but is typically read-only, and the other more GPU-specific one which is read-write but the caches are loaded manually
06:34:16  I thought L1 was based on how much RAM could be physically made available next to the fetch unit inside each core?
06:34:19  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177586&oldid=177585 * EsolangerII * (+10) /* Introductions */
06:34:57  if you're loading the caches manually anyway, simply saying "don't do cache collisions" is something you can actually do
06:35:41  oh! I think I know how GPUs could do MMU-like behaviour: you fix the addresses in GPUspace that each thread can access (you have to do that anyway so that they can act in parallel with each other) and you do the permission checks only when you're copying into and out of the cache-equivalent
06:36:03  you don't need to cache the address translations because you're only ever using them as part of a slow operation anyway
06:36:32  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177587&oldid=177586 * EsolangerII * (+5) /* Introductions */
06:37:05  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177588&oldid=177587 * EsolangerII * (+10) /* Introductions */
06:37:58  Yeah. I should point out that word sizes are bigger on the GPU; the fetches are like 256 bits minimum. This is hidden at the ISA level behind the 2x2 abstraction I mentioned earlier. IIRC nVidia docs talk about "warps", as in looms.
06:38:25  the Rust developers had a spate of GPU terminology trouble recently
06:38:42  because they wanted to create a GPU-agnostic API but all the GPUs were using different names for the same concepts
06:38:52  and so it was hard to figure out what names to use in documentation
06:39:17  the course I was teaching used nVidia terminology, so we were dealing with warps and half-warps
06:39:32  warp, thread, block, kernel as the four main levels of abstraction
06:39:36  And they probably wanted to expose low-level control over running warps in parallel. Seductive, the Dark Side is.
06:39:50  (this is also the reason I said "OS kernel" above, to clarify that I didn't mean a GPU kernel)
06:40:14  Sheesh. And I think nVidia/CUDA "block" is what SGX and other ARM SoCs call "tile".
06:40:34  [[Pastebin]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177589&oldid=144016 * Dragoneater67 * (+62) /* Some random C++ code I found online */
06:41:47  The model I would want, because I'm a weenie who hates going fast, is to run a pure function from tensors to tensors. The pure function can vary, it can have uniform params, but it's just a tensor mapping. AIUI this is basically what Futhark offers.
06:42:23  anyway, a) all the threads in a block have equal permissions to each other, b) threads generally work entirely in terms of memory that belongs to the block, c) each block has its own address space for block memory
06:42:44  korvo: I think it's based on page size. Multiple pages in logical address can map to the same physical address, but caching has to use the physical address so that if you write to one logical address and read from the other you get the correct result. There are 64*8 cache lines, each 64 bytes long. You get the lower 12 bits of the address first, because that's the same in logical and physical, and the 
06:42:47  which means the only time you would need to do an address translation and permission check is when copying between block memory and main memory, and that's normally done kilobytes at a time
06:42:50  L1D cache can tell which of the 64 groups of 8 cache lines it has to use from that, and later when it learns the physical address it picks one of those 8 to serve, or for a cache miss it has to pick the oldest one of those 8 to flush. I think this would be too complicated to do in time with 16 instead of 8 cache lines in each group.
06:43:19  (again, talking about standard GPU memory here, not the CPU-like memory that's more freely addressible)
06:43:23  I'm not a CPU designer so it's possible that I'm wrong about this and there's some other reason why the L1D cache size doesn't go over 32 kilobytes.
06:43:37  b_jonas: That makes perfect sense! Beautifully explained. It might have come out of my electrical engineering textbook.
06:45:08  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177590&oldid=177490 * EsolangerII * (+45) *
06:45:27  cache associativity is one of those optimisations where you know theoretical slowpaths exist, but they're unlikely and not actually *incorrect* so you just do the optimisation anyway and hope that the slowpath never gets hit
06:46:04  and then people researching low-level CPU behaviour intentionally create a lot of clashing addresses and use the performance changes to measure the cache associativity
06:46:32  this is 32 kilobytes per CPU core by the way, and there's a separate L1C cache for code which can be separate because if you ever write to a cache line that's used as code then the CPU is allowed to go very slow to recover from that
06:47:13  b_jonas: not just that, it's allowed to not notice
06:47:27  b_jonas: Hm. So maybe I'm misremembering, and it's L2 cache that is constrained by physics?
06:47:57  apparently you need to run one of a few specific instructions to recheck the cache if potentially cached code got written to
06:48:01  I do recall that L2 and L3 are explicitly at different levels of sharing and coherence precisely so that L3 can be shared by more cores, which inherently means that it must be (equally) far away from all of its users.
06:48:04  (CPUID is one of them, there's a faster one but it's new)
06:48:54  my guess is that storing data in L1C evicts it from L1D and vice versa, in much the same way as if a different CPU had written it – it could use the same mechanism
06:49:10  ais523: but there are also some cases where you can use this knowledge to intentionally create good memory addresses to speed up your code
06:49:49  ais523: I think on x86 the CPU is required to notice changing code as long as there's a jump instruction between the code change and execution, but maybe this has changed at some point?
06:50:19  b_jonas: I think it's something like, if it was changed on the same core a jump is enough, if a different core changed it you need CPUID
06:50:32  for recent x86, anyway
06:50:36  old x86 didn't need the jump
06:50:37  sure that's believable
06:51:02  oh the jump was needed even in very old x86 (in some cases anyway)
06:51:27  IIRC DOS NetHack has a self-modification without a jump
06:51:38  at least if running under HDPMI32
06:51:40  because even the original 8086 can read ahead a few bytes of instructions 
06:52:00  I remember committing to an emulator so that it would emulate it correctly
06:52:18  ais523: you could perhaps do it in some way other than a jump, but usually a jump is needed
06:52:34  why the heck does DOS NetHack do that?
06:52:45  do you load overlay code without a jump between?
06:52:49  interrupts
06:53:26  oh, but isn't that in a context where you modify one byte and it's fine if the CPU only notices it at a later time when it runs the code as long as it's atomic?
06:53:41  if you do that then no jump is probably fine
06:53:46  the standard library wants to provide a function for "call interrupt number X" but the x86 INT instruction can't take the interrupt number from a register, it has to be an immediate
06:53:56  what? 
06:54:08  why would you want to call an interrupt with indirect number?
06:54:09  so either you need a jump table with an option for every possible interrupt number or you need self-modifying code
06:54:26  you wouldn't have to if you could inline the standard library
06:54:37  ais523: So, maybe I'm outdated on this, but ISTR that GPU memory access is dominated by sampling strategy. Usually every pixel in a warp will look up nearly the same texels; they'll be near each other in 2D space or 3D space or whatever. If the texels were Z-tiled or Morton-tiled or etc. then a cache row is more likely to hold multiple nearby texels. This is why nVidia does that to all of their texture memory.
06:54:49  but the standard library wants to provide a function for calling interrupts, and it wants to provide one function, not a function for each possible interrupt
06:55:16  I see!
06:55:18  korvo: we basically didn't use texture memory on the course
06:55:32  just block memor
06:55:34  * memory
06:56:02  that does sound like you need a jump between modifying the instruction and executing it though
06:56:03  of course texture memory is very important in games and graphics programming, but we were doing GPGPU with somewhat predictable/constraint inputs
06:56:05  ais523: Good call. It's a headache. It was a big deal in the community when they finally reverse-engineered the GPU's native memory formats.
06:56:27  so we could just load all the data we needed into block memory
06:57:12  that said, plenty of weird tiling stuff came up in the actual algorithms (GPU matrix multiplication is a classic example of the genre)
06:57:30  even when you're manually filling the caches it needs a lot of thought to do that efficiently
06:57:51  I'm talking about big matrices here, not the little 4×4 ones which have a builtin
06:58:57  the basic challenge is to ensure that each value is only loaded into one block at a time, in order to make the most of your parallelism
06:59:11  [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177591 * EsolangerII * (+503) Created page with "One Command Programming Language is a programming language that uses only one command, !(). If there is one argument, like this, !(1), it will print what is inside.  !("Hello, World!") // prints Hello, World. If there are two arguments,
06:59:35  Yep. It's a perennial desire. The Weather Channel reportedly paid for the r200 Radeon driver so that they could do weather modeling on those GPUs, despite basically no customizable shaders. I've never seen their code, but I know weather models need lots of linear algebra, so they must have done it somehow.
07:00:21  the funny thing is, with the rise of LLMs, I don't think people even use GPUs for workloads that are mostly matrix multiplication any more because nowadays there are specialised chips for that
07:00:30  (but GPUs are very good at doing large matrix multiplications)
07:00:48  Don't people usually use off-the-shelf algorithms for this? CUDA kernels or whatever?
07:01:13  I guess it should come up in a class.
07:02:06  ais523: don't both the GPU and CPU have parts in them that are specialized for matrix multiplication? like in recent CPUs and GPUs
07:02:34  korvo: oh yes, they do – I was teaching the sort of class where you tell the students how the standard library works internally
07:03:01  (not directly but you teach the relevant principles)
07:03:50  in engineering you care about how to use the tools, in computer science you care about how/why the tool works
07:04:01  and this was a computer science course
07:04:14  maybe not enough parts in those chips are, so specialized chips that are denser are needed for machine learning; and other specialized chips that are 95% SHA-256 computation are needed for bitcoin mining
07:04:27  b_jonas: some very recent Intel CPUs have matrix multiplication operations, yes
07:04:56  I am surprised by this, it's the sort of thing you would expect to delegate to a different type of processor instead if you're doing more than a trivial amount, so it strikes me as mostly a marketing thing
07:05:17  ais523: even the not very recent ones are optimized for the execution units have really high throughput for executing mostly floating point multiply and add instructions
07:05:35  b_jonas: are you talking about Intel CPUs?
07:05:37  SIMD ones
07:05:41  yes, x86 CPUs
07:05:43  they do have a surprising amount of FMA units
07:05:52  to the extent that I think normal multiplication is implemented as FMA of -0
07:06:16  oh it's definitely partly a marketing thing
07:06:45  in general I think Intel has problems trying to persuade people to upgrade to newer chips
07:06:58  and they keep inventing bizarre features because of that
07:07:14  yes, there's some of that
07:07:22  (also there's the persistent historical situation of "Intel specifies a new feature but only AMD implements it")
07:07:22  We were talking earlier about how to actually get compilers to emit FMAs: https://lobste.rs/s/bunmdv/faster_asin_was_hiding_plain_sight
07:08:00  FMA is really awkward from the programmer's point of view because if you request an FMA but the hardware doesn't have one you get a slow fallback
07:08:13  and if you don't request an FMA the compiler can't normally use it due to excessive rounding
07:08:21  maybe there should be a maybe_fma or the like that gives the compiler a choice
07:08:24  * excess precision
07:08:29  don't we have a C pragma specifically for that?
07:09:20  there's also the practical problem that not all x86-64 CPUs support an FMA instruction
07:09:47  and many programmers are unwilling to have their program not be able to run on older CPUs, but switching between different instructions at runtime has its own issues
07:09:49  `#pragma STDC FP_CONTRACT ON` then you write a multiplication and addition in your code and the compiler is allowed to emit an fma
07:09:52  ​#pragma? No such file or directory
07:10:26  and before that there was a compiler flag
07:11:01  and of course the silly incident where Intel and AMD each specified FMA instructions and then each implemented the others' specification
07:11:11  In some languages there's mixfix ops with two parts. `b ? x : y` for example. In E, modular exponentiation is mixfix, `b ^ e % m` or so. It would be nice if FMA could arise from a standardized mixfix `a * x + b`.
07:11:26  (they're synchronized again now, on the version originally specified by AMD and implemented by Intel)
07:11:57  (This is probably the biggest GPU programming influence on Monte! It doesn't guarantee FMA but has syntax set up for it.)
07:12:05  korvo: I've been increasingly thinking that FPU code should have special "rounding parentheses" that show where the rounding goes
07:12:19  err, floating point in general, not FPU specifically
07:13:30  ais523: yes, but I think all the FMA instruction thing was before it turned out that both Intel and AMD CPUs have multiple kinds of speculative execution vulnerabilities, and then everyone upgraded just to be sure that their CPU doesn't have them
07:13:50  kind of unfortunate but that should have solved the FMA problem by now
07:14:07  b_jonas: that doesn't really help because there are almost certainly lots of undiscovered such vulnerabilities
07:14:48  anyway, I mostly stopped thinking about this topic because when I do I start thinking about how to do a fused add-add, which sounds easy but is harder than it seems to do correctly
07:15:41  yeah, the remaining ones are the hard ones that the CPU makers can't fix because they require the compiler writers and low level library writers to collaborate
07:16:44  I don't think it's possible to make a confident statement about the remaining ones
07:17:07  given the history there's almost certainly going to be at least one subtle one that's extremely hard to fix, and at least one stupid oversight
07:18:29  actually I think even a straightforward Spectre v1, "bounds check / read from array / indirect read with an address calculated based on the read value", hasn't been fully fixed yet
07:18:31  some of them aren't specifically speculative execution but other side channel leaks
07:19:37  even the class of "covert channel from speculatively running code to non-speculatively running code" is likely not fully explored yet
07:20:40  now I'm thinking of that amazing Spectre v2 variant where the processor was tricked into predicting a branch from an instruction that wasn't actually a branch instruction
07:21:22  yeah, you're probably right, there's too many side channel leaks to fix all of them easily
07:21:53  caching is hard
07:22:26  also I should ask #esolangs my cryptography question some time
07:22:54  but it's not something I can do justice to in just a few lines 
07:23:26  I do like the generic fix of ensuring that programs are deterministic, which prevents them translating side channels or covert channels into non-side-channel behaviour (but doesn't prevent them taking data from a covert channel and outputting it via a side channel)
07:23:43  the hard part is removing the primary externally visible side channel, which is timing
07:24:59  come to think of it, this is essentially the same problem that we have in bridge tournaments: in bridge, each contestant is a pair of humans who are not allowed to communicate except via the moves they make
07:25:14  the other "generic fix" is to never run multiple programs that don't trust each other on the same hardware
07:25:48  (each person has partial information – the game is about trying to make moves that give your partner enough information to make good moves of their own, whilst ensuring that your own move isn't too bad)
07:25:49  true, bridge does try to solve that
07:26:01  playing online blocks almost all the side channels, but not timing
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07:26:38  I think the solution here might be a fixed time limit per move, but players like to be able to think as long as they like, like in chess…
07:28:13  yeah, you have to make bridge teams submit a computer program that plays their strategy, and then impose a time limit on each step when that program executes, to get around that
07:28:31  this is extremely hard
07:28:35  which is sort of what they're trying to impose on bridge but it's not that formal
07:28:38  just explaining human systems to a computer is difficult
07:28:47  (explaining them to a human is also difficult, but easier)
07:29:08  yes
07:30:03  current bridge software is really bad at communicating with its partner, when it does well it's primarily through not making thinkos and through being able to work out complex lines of play when it has full information
07:30:58  The last time I read about a bridge scandal, it was — and sorry in advance for getting the terminology wrong — a side channel via the return box where discarded cards are placed?
07:31:22  does that apply only to bridge software that wants to communnicate with a human partner, or also bridge software that plays a team?
07:31:36  It was something remarkably subtle like one of four choices of corner, and it wasn't just sending something obvious like a suit or rank.
07:32:04  korvo: there were two scandals that that might have been, but only one was that subtle
07:32:24  discarded cards in bridge are played like non-discarded cards, just the players have to remember they have no value
07:32:46  but bridge has two phases, the bidding and the play
07:33:15  and there was something complicated about placement of the tray that was used to pass the information about the bidding from one partner to the other, IIRC
07:33:25  b_jonas: both
07:33:26  I think the only reason why bridge mostly works and doesn't have these standards is that it's mostly people who already want to keep the information hygiene rules want to play it, especially british people.
07:33:59  s/standards/scandals/
07:33:59  b_jonas: I'm primarily concerned about people who are consciously honest but subconsciously pick up information they aren't entitled to
07:34:30  ah, like CPUs that don't want to deliberately leak information on a side channel?
07:34:35  [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177592&oldid=177591 * EsolangerII * (+84) 
07:34:42  e.g. if you can see your partner as you play it is too easy to pick up their emotions from body language, so serious tournaments have a barrier across the table and use trays to pass information back and forth
07:34:58  ais523: That sounds like the one. I saw a video of tourney play so that they could show what the tray ought to look like, and it felt very solemn. I'm guessing that that's just the tourney atmosphere for a game where sharing knowledge is forbidden?
07:35:16  it's only done in important tournaments and normally only in the last few rounds
07:35:32  normally (when playing in person) you just get the four people sitting round a table without many precautions
07:35:40  but I don't like that because of how much unauthorised information it creates
07:38:07  Makes sense. In this part of the USA, the contract game we usually play is whist, but much more common is the non-bidding game of hearts. Hearts is a perfect-play game, or however you call it; it's not interesting professionally because it's all down to which hand you're dealt.
07:39:07  well, hearts is theoretically complicated because you have multiple opponents who are not allied with each other
07:39:34  I would expect it to be similar to poker in that it can be broken by collusion
07:39:44  Yeah. But there's a bit of game theory, so even if you're not allied, you get to bet against -- exactly!
07:40:09  We also play lots of poker and blackjack for fun. Same idea. I guess we like bluffing games.
07:40:42  there are card games with bidding on tricks where everyone bids simultaneously, but I think those can be broken with collusion too
07:43:36  there's also at least one competitive trick-taking card game with some limited bidding that has just two players, that's kind of the easy way to get around these problems
07:43:50  but it's more boring than the game with three or more players
07:43:59  s/game with/games with/
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07:45:01  It is a dark and stormy night. I'm going to bed. Peace.
07:46:39  [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177593&oldid=177592 * EsolangerII * (+120) 
07:58:01  [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177594&oldid=177593 * EsolangerII * (+218) 
07:59:54  korvo (for when you wake up): I think this is the video you were thinking of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=831tJ4EHLBY
08:01:00  I was almost right, they weren't signalling using the tray, but using the board that's used to hold the cards when carrying them between tables (nowadays, bridge tournaments are usually scored by comparing the play of the same deal at multiple tables, so you need to ensure that each table has players get the same cards and that's done by using a board that holds the four hands separately)
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09:27:51  I looked at the x86 emulator code I wrote to handle self-modifying code – it worked by simulating a no-op interrupt if memory was modified that could be in code cache (thus causing the code to be re-recompiled after the interrupt was handled)
09:28:07  a real processor could use the same method (and probably does do something similar)
09:45:39  [[Talk:]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177595 * C++DSUCKER * (+43) Created page with "This esolang is absolutely AWWESOME!!!!! :D"
09:45:51  [[Talk:]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177596&oldid=177595 * C++DSUCKER * (+27) 
09:46:05  [[Talk:]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177597&oldid=177596 * C++DSUCKER * (+1) 
09:46:19  [[Talk:]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177598&oldid=177597 * C++DSUCKER * (+32) 
09:46:42  [[Talk:]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177599&oldid=177598 * C++DSUCKER * (+27) 
09:46:58  [[Talk:]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177600&oldid=177599 * C++DSUCKER * (-1) 
09:54:06  [[Ring-around-the-Rosie]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177601&oldid=175150 * Salpynx * (+4482) /* Examples */ 99 bottles for 1 reg Minsky machine
09:55:23  [[Ring-around-the-Rosie]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177602&oldid=177601 * Salpynx * (+25) /* Computational class */ implemented for testing evaluation strategies
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10:36:45  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177603&oldid=177556 * Qpx5997 * (+394) 
10:43:04  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177604&oldid=177603 * Qpx5997 * (+333) /* Syntax */
10:54:32  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177605&oldid=177604 * Qpx5997 * (+812) 
11:00:34  [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177606&oldid=177594 * EsolangerII * (+55) 
11:01:12  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177607&oldid=177605 * Qpx5997 * (+76) /* Commands */
11:02:44  [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177608&oldid=177606 * EsolangerII * (+0) 
11:03:04  [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177609&oldid=177608 * EsolangerII * (+5) 
11:08:47  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177610&oldid=177607 * Qpx5997 * (+58) 
11:58:41  [[Template:Unf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177611&oldid=177551 * None1 * (-36) Blanked the page
12:07:31  Wtf, how does evince keep getting worse?! Can't scroll up with cursor keys anymore... it works once, but also selects the zoom input field.
12:08:10  (well, maybe it's a recent GTK change)
12:18:32  [[ChangeFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177612&oldid=177562 * None1 * (+920) 
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12:53:47  Hi
13:10:45  [[Qpx5997]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177613 * Qpx5997 * (+81) Created page with "hey guys, im qpx5997, creator of [[]]. i like object shows too!"
13:11:09  [[Qpx5997]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177614&oldid=177613 * Qpx5997 * (-81) Blanked the page
13:11:59  [[User:Qpx5997]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177615 * Qpx5997 * (+81) Created page with "hey guys, im qpx5997, creator of [[]]. i like object shows too!"
13:17:57  [[Qpx5997]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177616&oldid=177614 * Qpx5997 * (+26) Redirected page to [[User:Qpx5997]]
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14:56:13  [[Qpx5997]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177617&oldid=177616 * Aadenboy * (-26) remove redirect to userspace
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17:18:22  [[Bit-ter lang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177618&oldid=177584 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-154) /* Class */ Its a bounded in memory! AND there's no loops!
17:21:15  [[Bit-ter lang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177619&oldid=177618 * Aadenboy * (+59) 
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17:41:32  [[Countable]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177620&oldid=176989 * Aadenboy * (+141) 
17:42:15  [[Countable]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177621&oldid=177620 * Aadenboy * (-74) /* Commands */ this is redundant and WRONG
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19:58:41  Good Night     😴
20:31:52  Leaving [[Java]] as a redlink has become very funny to me. Big thanks to Past Corbin for placing that bet.
20:32:23  A language so non-esoteric that bluelinking it would be pointless.
20:40:12  Hehe, this looks a bit janky: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez2-train-merge.jpg (showing 6 trains arriving all at once at the vortex (central hub); it could be 8 but the 4th direction actually does something useful :)
20:43:14  Like one of those animations of assembling a 4-dimensional hyperobject from 3D faces.
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23:08:11  has anyone visited #anagol on freenode?
23:08:27  ref: http://golf.shinh.org/ second para
23:13:06  Logs suggest I was there from 2014-10 to 2021-06.
23:16:27  is the server offline? the wholist is completely empty
23:16:50  or maybe i've never seen an empty server before
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23:18:59 -!- somefan has joined.
23:21:40  I guess it might have just dried up.
23:23:17  I almost forgot that Freenode is still a thing, technically.
23:32:51  that's sad, should've migrated to libera or someplace before the sweep
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2026-03-13:

00:12:52  It's not even _that_ much smaller than this place in terms of netsplit.de statistics (5-6k vs. 33-34k users).
00:13:21  Wonder what happened to OFTC user counts mid-2024 https://netsplit.de/networks/history/top10_2024u.png -- maybe some sort of big (Matrix?) bridge turndown, like here.
00:13:29  I've visited #anagol in the past
00:38:00  what was the atmosphere like?
00:39:12 -!- aadenboy has joined.
00:39:21  good afternoon
00:39:58  hello!
00:41:06  fizzie: may be matrix related, may be more (like a deliberate bot sweep); techwrongs says there were a lot of CTCP version queries around that time too. https://weblogs.openttd.org/openttd/2024/07/16.html has 263 quits and 176 joins; a lot of the nicks that went missing have weird [m] names.
00:41:34  Anyway, don't know.
00:43:51  Like, I've narrowed down the date, but I didn't find any explanation that isn't speculation.
00:44:38  [m] definitely sounds matrixy.
00:44:59  I don't think it matters terribly much, was just curious.
00:45:14  Yeah the [m] isn't the weird part, I remember that naming scheme.
00:46:13  I looked at the nick names and... I don't know, something about them doesn't feel like nick names that people would actually choose? I don't know.
00:46:30  err, nicknames
01:21:23  nontheless, s'cool that golf.shinh.org is still alive and kicking for its age
01:22:52  (altho i checked it recently and half the requests didn't work [at least for my client], just hope that i didn't jinx it)
01:32:59  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177622&oldid=177610 * Qpx5997 * (+365) 
01:37:54  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177623&oldid=177622 * Qpx5997 * (+481) /* Commands */
01:38:17  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177624&oldid=177623 * Qpx5997 * (+28) 
01:52:52  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177625&oldid=177624 * Qpx5997 * (+396) 
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01:59:36  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177626&oldid=177625 * Qpx5997 * (+326) 
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03:13:55  goodnight
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06:28:18  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177627&oldid=177531 * Dragoneater67 * (+2) fix typo + improve formatting
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08:29:04  [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177628&oldid=177609 * EsolangerII * (+142) 
08:39:37  [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177629&oldid=177628 * EsolangerII * (+170) 
08:41:07  [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177630&oldid=177629 * EsolangerII * (+0) 
08:48:45  [[User:EsolangerII]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177631 * EsolangerII * (+172) Created page with "Hi, I'm EsolangerII. Creator of [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]], an esoteric language where everything is done with a single command !() based on argument count."
08:54:00  [[User talk:EsolangerII]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177632 * EsolangerII * (+7) Created page with "Contact"
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08:54:59  [[User talk:EsolangerII]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177633&oldid=177632 * EsolangerII * (+5) 
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10:45:21  HI
10:45:23  s/I/i/
10:54:30  Fun C thing: unlike many other things (like the comma and conditional expressions), the result of generic selection is an lvalue if the chosen result expression is. So you could for example build a kind of a compile-time switch expression that you can assign to, without going through the usual workaround of making a pointer and then dereferencing it:
10:54:53  10:54  ,cc int a = 0, b = 0, c = 0, d = 0; _Generic((char(*)[3])0, char(*)[1]: a, char(*)[2]: b, char(*)[3]: c, char(*)[4]: d) = 1;
10:54:55  10:54  fizzie: no output: a = 0; b = 0; c = 1; d = 0
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12:34:24  [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177634&oldid=177557 * None1 * (+53) 
12:35:36  [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177635&oldid=177630 * None1 * (+84) 
12:36:12  [[User:None1]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177636&oldid=177101 * None1 * (+57) /* My Esolangs */
12:36:32  [[OCPL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177637&oldid=169046 * None1 * (+70) 
12:36:50  [[OCPL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177638&oldid=177637 * None1 * (-5) 
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14:36:08  fizzie: that's funny because there doesn't seem to be much reason for it, you could just put address operators inside and a dereference outside
14:38:31  maybe they figured that the question mark operator should have been able to return an lvalue too, but they don't want to change it now because then someone might accidentally use it and not realize that it won't work with older compilers
14:46:19  fizzie: try /msg geordi_ -w { f(0); f(1); } void f(bool c) { uint16_t x = 0; struct { uint16_t y: 5 = 0; } s; (c ? x : s.y) = 80; cout << x << " " << s.y << " "; }
14:47:42  [[User:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177639 * Widuruwana * (+5858) Initial Design
14:47:59  C++ allows the question mark operator to return an lvalue that may or may not refer to a bit field. here if c then it assigns 80 to a full 16 bit wide integer, but if not c then it truncates the 80 into a 5 bit wide bit field. there's no way to make sense of that as the question mark operator returning a reference, or rewrite it to the question mark returning an address and then dereferencing it 
14:48:11  I don't know how they came up with this
14:49:14  and this was deliberately because C++11 specifically changed the rule from C++03, it wasn't just an oversight in the standard that they went with when discovered
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15:08:28  [[User talk:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177640 * Aadenboy * (+692) Created page with "it looks interesting but I don't think it fits stylistically with the wiki? at least not given the current skin. the solid borders and shadows are also rather jarring against the background. more technical: the flexbox causes the middl
15:14:54  C++ has a rather more elaborate value categorization scheme (what with that whole prvalue/xvalue/lvalue distinction), and it does have references, so I guess you could argue it's more reasonable for C++ to allow it. Although I agree it's still a little weird, since it can't just be a case of the operator yielding a reference.
15:17:36  In C, the type of a conditional operator expression is a common type for the second and third operand (with a slightly subtle rule for pointers and a special case for null pointer constants that I think might be on my list of types GDB gets wrong), which means even ignoring bit-fields, you can't use a conditional operator for a "heterogenous" assignment (the address-dereference way).
15:26:14  (You can use the _Generic thing for that, but at least it's always resolved at compile time. Variably modified types are not allowed in generic selections.)
15:27:25  [[User talk:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177641&oldid=177640 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+207) 
15:36:23  [[Ordinal numbers]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177642 * Aadenboy * (+510) program form
15:36:51  I still think bitfields in C was a mistake but it's a mistake we're stuck with
17:13:08  I've been learning about Fortran, and I want to make comments about old versions feeling esoteric, but... it doesn't really. There are oddities, DO loops (which are more like modern for loops) naming the last statement they apply to.
17:13:16  I guess for "historical language that feels esoteric" Smalltalk-72 is a much better fit
17:13:27  Oh, old Fortran has that I,J,K,L,M,N variables assumed integers others assumed real thing.
17:13:40  (And I posted all that IN #fortran by mistake >.> )
17:16:46  Great thoughts, honestly. One of my biggest realizations over the past half-decade is that C is a hack and Fortran is quite solid. I don't want to *write* Fortran, but I appreciate it much more now that I understand how C evolved.
17:17:50  Oh, the original IF is weird. IF (a) 10,15,20. If a<0 goto statement 10, if it's 0 go to statement 15, if it's positive go to statement 20
17:18:37  The team that made Fortran were reportedly thinking more about how to build the optimizing compiler than the design of the language itself
17:23:22  [[Talk:Iterate]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177643&oldid=174018 * Aadenboy * (+500) /* computation without $# */ [[Countable]] reference
17:23:45  [[Talk:Iterate]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177644&oldid=177643 * Aadenboy * (+5) /* computation without $# */ 
17:31:48  Sgeo: I heard that some versions of Fortran allow you to statically allocate non-contiguous arrays
17:33:24  if so then I think that counts as an esoteric feature
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18:10:21  [[   ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177645 * BODOKE2801e * (+11) Created page with "Redirecting"
18:11:54  [[   ]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177646&oldid=177645 * BODOKE2801e * (+195) 
18:16:29  [[   ]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177647&oldid=177646 * BODOKE2801e * (-206) Blanked the page
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19:19:41  [[Countable]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177648&oldid=177621 * Aadenboy * (+833) /* Examples */ [[Rule 110]] implementation
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20:43:45  Proper FORTRAN also has that column-dependent syntax (a "C" -- or any other non-blank character -- in column 6 denotes a continuation line), which perhaps counts as esoteric syntax at this point.
20:46:02  And a "C" in column 1 marks a comment.
20:51:33  I tried writing a Befunge interpreter in Fortran once, despite not knowing the language basically at all: https://zem.fi/tmp/fbef2.for.txt
20:51:52  I believe subsequent versions of the language relaxed those rules about strict meanings of the columns.
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21:56:57  I had written some ideas about how I would think to make a programming language with the similar use than C but would be better in my opinion (that other people likely would disagree)
22:05:41  Good Night
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2026-03-14:

01:18:13  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177649&oldid=177563 * BODOKE2801e * (+94) 
01:18:35  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177650&oldid=177649 * BODOKE2801e * (+0) /* Syntax */
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03:05:57  How does MMU of GPU usually work? My idea was just that each window has a base address and a maximum address (the base address is inaccessible and the maximum address is read-only), and the physical address is just the sum of the virtual address plus the base address. Accesses (reads and writes) beyond the maximum address will have no effect.
03:06:26  (Allocation and other stuff would be handled by the operating system or by drivers, and not by the video card.)
03:07:06  What is your opinion of this?
03:15:10  (The CPU would probably have more complicated MMU; what I described above is only for the video card.)
03:22:27  [[Flux (Esolangist)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177651&oldid=167350 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+9599) Supplemented further information, based upon the Befunge heritage and the extant code samples, rectified several example programs, added a hyperlink to my interpreter implementation, and introduced additional page category tags.
03:23:32  Also, this computer would have tagged memory (two tag bits per byte), although the video memory would not have tag bits. One of the flags in the CPU page table would be whether or not the tag bits can be used; if not, then any attempt to write data with the tag bits set is an error.
04:06:29  zzo38: The only complication you need to consider at this level is that a GPU buffer has three size numbers, not one. There's size and there's also 2D information: the length of each row and the stride.
04:07:47  The stride is how much is actually allocated and it can be greater than the length. Like, if you have a 1080x720 screen, the length of each row is 1080 (x your pixel size) but the stride is probably 2048.
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04:54:27  korvo: Yes, although my comment above is only about the memory allocation, rather than how they are mapped to the screen (as you mentioned), I think.
04:55:34  zzo38: Sometimes there is a stride in memory too! It used to be very common because GPUs could only handle buffers with power-of-two dimensions. It wasn't until videos became popular in the late 2000s that non-power-of-two texture support became more common.
04:55:56  To this day, I bet that your GPU can't support odd strides. It'd be too much of a hassle.
05:00:28  I thought that the pixel program would read the memory (and possibly apply calculations such as using the value as an index into a tile set) and decide the pixel to display on the screen in that window.
06:29:15  [[All i want is a mess that works in this lang and it's ultralong i dont care how much i am typing but i want one that doesn't make this kind of mess, everybody will laugh at this i just want it that long]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177652 * BODOKE2801e * (+733) Created page with "'''all i want is a mess that works in this lang and it's ultralong i don
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07:22:27  Ratfor feels very C like
07:22:53  Oh, I guess C did exist first
07:34:31  [[Septem Lingua/STL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177653&oldid=177220 * Yoyolin0409 * (+1) 
08:51:38  [[Talk:Smasnug ABrainFIsHCHIHqFRSI9efuck+-~B2D]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177654 * Win7HE * (+141) Created page with "An interpreter might be interesting as the creator of Smasnug.--~~~~"
08:53:11  [[Smasnug]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177655&oldid=175561 * Win7HE * (+8) /* hello world */
08:55:36  [[Smasnug ABrainFIsHCHIHqFRSI9efuck+-~B2D]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177656&oldid=177370 * Win7HE * (+18) /* Instructions */
09:00:07  [[Smasnug ABrainFIsHCHIHqFRSI9efuck+-~B2D]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177657&oldid=177656 * Win7HE * (-4) 
09:00:52  [[Smasnug ABrainFIsHCHIHqFRSI9efuck+-~B2D]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177658&oldid=177657 * Win7HE * (+1) 
10:11:51  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Nst021 *  New user account
10:15:33  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177659&oldid=177588 * Nst021 * (+89) /* Introductions */
10:36:37  [[Flux (Esolangist)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177660&oldid=177651 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+26) improve infobox
10:37:49  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177661&oldid=177627 * Dragoneater67mobile * (-1) improve infobox
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11:42:58  Hi
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15:21:10  [[Flux (Esolangist)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177662&oldid=177660 * Hammy * (+128) small edit
15:58:02  [[Righght]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177663&oldid=177479 * Cool Bungle * (+3) 
16:03:47  [[Flux (Esolangist)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177664&oldid=177662 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+8) Rectified the formatting of the command table.
16:23:07  [[Un-Js]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177665&oldid=93472 * Qazwsxplm * (+4) 
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16:45:20  [[Bit-ter lang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177666&oldid=177619 * BODOKE2801e * (+0) /* Commands= */
17:46:49 -!- joast has joined.
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19:36:07  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Benedikt Pankratz *  New user account
19:48:24  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177667&oldid=177659 * Benedikt Pankratz * (+128) 
19:48:35  [[Benedictum]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177668 * Benedikt Pankratz * (+6694) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Benedictum |paradigms=imperative |author=Bene (Beneking102) |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |memsys=[[:Category:Cell-based|Cell-based]] |dimensions=one-dimensional |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |majorimpl=[https
19:49:23  [[Benedictum]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177669&oldid=177668 * Benedikt Pankratz * (+0) 
19:49:47  [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177670&oldid=177634 * Benedikt Pankratz * (+96) 
19:50:35 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
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19:50:39  [[Benedictum]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177671&oldid=177669 * Benedikt Pankratz * (+26) 
19:53:28 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
20:28:45  [[Galvanized]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177672 * Mrtli08 * (+49) Created page with "Galvanized is a esolang made by [[User:Mrtli08]]."
20:44:32  [[Galvanized]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177673&oldid=177672 * Mrtli08 * (+1168) 
20:44:55  [[Galvanized]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177674&oldid=177673 * Mrtli08 * (+30) 
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2026-03-15:

01:09:52  [[Bit-ter lang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177675&oldid=177666 * BODOKE2801e * (+94) /* Commands= */
01:11:21  [[Bit-ter lang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177676&oldid=177675 * BODOKE2801e * (+30) /* Class */
01:14:39 -!- APic has quit (Quit: brb).
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02:06:34 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement).
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03:07:43  [[List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177677&oldid=177571 * Qazwsxplm * (+12) 
03:11:15  [['xxx' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177678&oldid=147683 * Qazwsxplm * (+43) /* See also */
03:12:37  [[Illegal command]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177679 * Qazwsxplm * (+270) Created page with "'''Illegal command''' is a esolang created by [[User:Qazwsxplm]], inspired by [['xxx' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.]] and it imitates a common DOSBox error when you attempt to execute a command that does n
03:15:37  [[Illegal command]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177680&oldid=177679 * Qazwsxplm * (+807) 
03:15:48  [[Illegal command]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177681&oldid=177680 * Qazwsxplm * (+0) 
03:16:30  [[Illegal command]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177682&oldid=177681 * Qazwsxplm * (+5) 
03:17:01  [[Illegal command]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177683&oldid=177682 * Qazwsxplm * (+2) /* Commands */
03:21:00  [[List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177684&oldid=177677 * Qazwsxplm * (+3754) 
03:22:22  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177685&oldid=126172 * Qazwsxplm * (+19) /* Example */
03:24:58  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177686&oldid=172942 * Qazwsxplm * (+313) /* Complex Example */
03:31:45  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177687&oldid=177684 * Qazwsxplm * (+27) 
03:35:55  [[Geometry Dash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177688&oldid=164669 * Qazwsxplm * (+44) /* Legal issues with alternate implementations */
03:36:29  [[List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177689&oldid=177687 * Aadenboy * (+85) holy shit
03:39:55  [[SCRUBS4U]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177690&oldid=92818 * Qazwsxplm * (+15) 
03:41:44  [[SCRUBS4U]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177691&oldid=177690 * Qazwsxplm * (-4) 
03:47:28  [[Benedictum]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177692&oldid=177671 * Cleverxia * (+285) fix computational class (see [[ivory]])
03:49:42  [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177693&oldid=163938 * Qazwsxplm * (+67) 
03:51:54  [[Geometry Dash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177694&oldid=177688 * Corbin * (-497) Remove speculation over copyright. That's not how copyright works.
03:52:30  [[Marble]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177695&oldid=119799 * Qazwsxplm * (+27) 
03:58:30  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177696&oldid=177689 * Qazwsxplm * (+457) 
04:08:15  [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177697&oldid=177693 * Aadenboy * (-67) eh?
04:08:39  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177698&oldid=177685 * Aadenboy * (-19) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/177685|177685]] by [[Special:Contributions/Qazwsxplm|Qazwsxplm]] ([[User talk:Qazwsxplm|talk]])
04:10:12  [[SCRUBS4U]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177699&oldid=177691 * Aadenboy * (-15) unnecessary distinction
04:53:12  [[Tetrahedron]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177700&oldid=177510 * Cleverxia * (+2247) 
07:10:59  [[The best esolang ever]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177701&oldid=95442 * Qazwsxplm * (+24) 
07:12:16  [[CES]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177702&oldid=92641 * Qazwsxplm * (+12) 
07:26:56  [[List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177703&oldid=177696 * Qazwsxplm * (+153) 
07:29:07  [[List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177704&oldid=177703 * Qazwsxplm * (+18) 
07:32:04  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177705&oldid=177704 * Qazwsxplm * (+42) 
07:38:11  [[Scratch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177706&oldid=171362 * Qazwsxplm * (+17) /* See Also */
07:40:22  [[Brainsymbol]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177707&oldid=97407 * Qazwsxplm * (+2) 
07:44:47  [[PyText?!.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177708&oldid=127299 * Qazwsxplm * (+11) 
07:47:47  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177709&oldid=177705 * Qazwsxplm * (+115) 
07:50:53  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177710&oldid=177709 * Qazwsxplm * (+29) 
07:59:03  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177711&oldid=177710 * Qazwsxplm * (+116) 
09:03:57  Ew. I was trying to call a subroutine that gives me back a string. I... had to give it a REAL*8 argument. The compiler didn't like INTEGER*8
09:22:27  [[Tautologylang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177712&oldid=98107 * Qazwsxplm * (+104) 
09:24:46  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177713&oldid=177711 * Qazwsxplm * (+320) 
09:25:54  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177714&oldid=177713 * Qazwsxplm * (+0) 
09:28:48  [[Whoeverscripts]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177715&oldid=95553 * Qazwsxplm * (+30) 
09:32:01  Well, that's esoteric. FORTRAN IV has a way to define a function on one line
09:32:08  But here's an invalid example
09:32:19  ASF(A) = A+B(I)
09:32:19  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177716&oldid=177714 * Qazwsxplm * (+142) 
09:32:29  The usage of array B(I) isn't allowed there
09:34:19  [[Index.html]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177717&oldid=126730 * Qazwsxplm * (+17) /* Language description */
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09:53:06  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177718&oldid=177716 * Qazwsxplm * (+413) 
10:05:08  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177719&oldid=177718 * Qazwsxplm * (+128) 
10:07:27  [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177720 * PrySigneToFry * (+11717) Created page with "{{AKA|title=}}   is an esoteric programming language designed by PSTF, in order to avoiding any emoji-using, and trying to inherit the spirit of APL.  The name of this language '' should actually be ''(stands for Symbolic Language), because I deliberately looked up vari
10:08:04  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177721&oldid=177590 * PrySigneToFry * (+21) 
10:08:21  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177722&oldid=177719 * Qazwsxplm * (+51) 
10:15:44  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177723&oldid=177722 * Qazwsxplm * (+43) 
10:16:10  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177724&oldid=177723 * Qazwsxplm * (+1) fix invaild linking
10:19:08  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177725&oldid=166327 * Qazwsxplm * (+12) 
10:22:24  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177726&oldid=177724 * Qazwsxplm * (+143) 
10:24:46  [[Esolangs.org]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177727&oldid=176191 * Qazwsxplm * (+49) 
10:31:43  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177728&oldid=177726 * Qazwsxplm * (+97) 
10:36:01  [[Translated ZhongWen/PSTF Again]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177729&oldid=141857 * Qazwsxplm * (+57) 
10:36:35  [[Translated ZhongWen/PSTF Again]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177730&oldid=177729 * Qazwsxplm * (+4) 
10:38:26  [[Translated ZhongWen/PSTF Again]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177731&oldid=177730 * Qazwsxplm * (+36) 
10:42:34  [[Translated ZhongWen/Mihai Again Chapter 13]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177732&oldid=152012 * Qazwsxplm * (+142) 
10:44:05  [[Translated ZhongWen]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177733&oldid=139130 * Qazwsxplm * (+67) /* See also */
10:50:31  [[Translated ZhongWen/Mihai Again Chapter 13]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177734&oldid=177732 * Qazwsxplm * (+129) 
10:51:18  [[Category:Pages with ignored display titles]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177735 * Qazwsxplm * (+0) Created blank page
10:53:01  [[Translated ZhongWen/Mihai Again Chapter 13]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177736&oldid=177734 * Qazwsxplm * (+3932) 
10:53:05 -!- APic has joined.
10:53:55  [[Category:Works-in-Progress]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177737&oldid=129482 * Qazwsxplm * (+1) 
10:55:07  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177738&oldid=177667 * Qazwsxplm * (+0) 
10:59:43  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177739&oldid=177738 * Qazwsxplm * (+7) /* Introductions */
11:00:59  [[List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177740&oldid=177728 * Cleverxia * (+70) 
11:04:21  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177741&oldid=177739 * Tomahg * (+72) 
11:04:30  [[Bodyfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177742&oldid=110662 * Tomahg * (+67) /* Examples */
11:07:17  [[Bodyfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177743&oldid=177742 * Tomahg * (+227) /* History */
11:07:49  [[Bitfuckery]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177744&oldid=138505 * Qazwsxplm * (-18) 
11:07:50  [[Bodyfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177745&oldid=177743 * Tomahg * (+0) /* History */
11:10:38  [[Bodyfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177746&oldid=177745 * Tomahg * (+292) /* Specification */
11:11:40  [[Bodyfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177747&oldid=177746 * Tomahg * (+34) /* History */
11:13:22  [[Bodyfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177748&oldid=177747 * Tomahg * (+46) /* Specification */
11:13:31  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177749&oldid=177740 * Qazwsxplm * (+234) 
11:13:43  [[Bodyfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177750&oldid=177748 * Tomahg * (+0) /* Specification */
11:14:56  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177751&oldid=177749 * Qazwsxplm * (-15) 
11:16:26  [[LogFuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177752 * Qazwsxplm * (+21) Redirected page to [[Logfuck]]
11:17:02  [[Hassl]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177753 * Qazwsxplm * (+19) Redirected page to [[HASSL]]
11:18:29  [[NormalCalc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177754 * Qazwsxplm * (+24) Redirected page to [[Normalcalc]]
11:18:54  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177755&oldid=177751 * Qazwsxplm * (+1) 
11:20:13  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177756&oldid=177755 * Qazwsxplm * (-7) 
11:20:39  [[RUI]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177757 * Qazwsxplm * (+17) Redirected page to [[Rui]]
11:23:40  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177758&oldid=177756 * Qazwsxplm * (+74) 
11:24:32  [[ChinaScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177759&oldid=171611 * Qazwsxplm * (+41) 
11:25:28  [[ChinaScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177760&oldid=177759 * Qazwsxplm * (+58) /* do nothing */
11:25:55  [[List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177761&oldid=177758 * Cleverxia * (+146) 
11:27:30  [[List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177762&oldid=177761 * Cleverxia * (+9) 
11:29:46  [[Talk:List of esolang file extensions]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177763 * Qazwsxplm * (+90) Created page with "Someone is faster than me just Before I think my idea! Maybe [[User:Cleberxia|Cleverxia]]?"
11:30:21  [[Talk:List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177764&oldid=177763 * Qazwsxplm * (+39) 
11:31:19  [[Talk:List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177765&oldid=177764 * Cleverxia * (+111) 
11:32:49  [[Talk:List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177766&oldid=177765 * Cleverxia * (+1) (newline)
11:33:31  [[Talk:List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177767&oldid=177766 * Qazwsxplm * (+34) 
11:49:30  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177768&oldid=177762 * Qazwsxplm * (+57) 
12:04:01  [[User talk:Qazwsxplm]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177769 * PrySigneToFry * (+410) /* Septem Lingua */ new section
12:04:35  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177770&oldid=177483 * PrySigneToFry * (+20) 
12:06:39  [[Translator]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177771 * None1 * (+569) Created page with "{{lang|i=User:None1}} ==Memory== It operates on the input. It has no other memory storage other than that. ==Syntax== 
 ''a'' -> ''b'' 
 ''a'' and ''b'' are strings. Replaces ''a'' with ''b''.  Note that replacements do ''not'' loop explicitly or implicitly, so
12:07:08  [[User talk:Qazwsxplm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177772&oldid=177769 * Qazwsxplm * (+320) /* Septem Lingua */
12:08:10  [[Translator]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177773&oldid=177771 * None1 * (+0) 
12:13:04  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177774&oldid=177770 * PrySigneToFry * (+112) 
12:16:20  [[Translator]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177775&oldid=177773 * PrySigneToFry * (+39) 
12:17:34  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177776&oldid=177774 * Qazwsxplm * (+35) /* misc */
12:21:24  [[Septem Lingua]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177777&oldid=177776 * Qazwsxplm * (+15) /* By Qazwsxplm */
12:22:30  [[Septem Lingua]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177778&oldid=177777 * Qazwsxplm * (-1) /* By Qazwsxplm */
12:24:53  [[Septem Lingua]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177779&oldid=177778 * Qazwsxplm * (+16) /* By Qazwsxplm */
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15:01:21  [[Flux (Esolangist)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177780&oldid=177664 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+3) Rectified the formatting of several stack modification descriptions.
15:02:39  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177781&oldid=177779 * Cleverxia * (+175) /* Development Team */ make statement more rigorous
15:05:30  [[The best esolang ever]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177782&oldid=177701 * Aadenboy * (-24) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/177701|177701]] by [[Special:Contributions/Qazwsxplm|Qazwsxplm]] ([[User talk:Qazwsxplm|talk]])
15:06:49  [[Brainsymbol]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177783&oldid=177707 * Aadenboy * (-2) seems unofficial
15:07:12  [[Tautologylang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177784&oldid=177712 * Aadenboy * (-104) not a tautology
15:07:28  [[Index.html]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177785&oldid=177717 * Aadenboy * (-17) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/177717|177717]] by [[Special:Contributions/Qazwsxplm|Qazwsxplm]] ([[User talk:Qazwsxplm|talk]])
15:07:53  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177786&oldid=177725 * Aadenboy * (-12) seems unofficial, especially since this is unimplemented
15:08:18  [[Esolangs.org]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177787&oldid=177727 * Aadenboy * (-49) both of these are not necessarily true
15:10:05  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177788&oldid=177741 * Aadenboy * (-7) ??
15:11:15  [[Bitfuckery]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177789&oldid=177744 * Aadenboy * (-21) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/177744|177744]] by [[Special:Contributions/Qazwsxplm|Qazwsxplm]] ([[User talk:Qazwsxplm|talk]])
15:12:35  [[ChinaScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177790&oldid=177760 * Aadenboy * (-99) 
15:16:48  [[List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177791&oldid=177768 * Aadenboy * (-84) remove unconfirmed extensions
15:17:05  [[Esolang talk:Community portal]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177792&oldid=175444 * Qazwsxplm * (+295) /* OH MY GOD I GOT SOME HORRIBLE NEWS! */ new section
15:17:22  [[User talk:Qazwsxplm]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177793&oldid=177772 * Aadenboy * (+356) /* mass editing */ new section
15:18:52  [[User talk:Qazwsxplm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177794&oldid=177793 * Qazwsxplm * (+146) 
15:30:19  [[Septem Lingua]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177795&oldid=177781 * Qazwsxplm * (+35) /* By Qazwsxplm */
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17:14:44  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177796&oldid=177650 * BODOKE2801e * (+848) /* Examples */
17:15:12  [[Ima gte. Ima dana]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177797&oldid=177796 * BODOKE2801e * (+1) /* Fibonacci sequence */
18:17:20  [[Scratch]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177798&oldid=177706 * Ractangle * (-17) why?
18:19:55  [[Whoeverscripts]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177799&oldid=177715 * Ractangle * (-30) 
18:23:33  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * StavWasPlayZ *  New user account
18:26:56  [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177800&oldid=177792 * Ractangle * (+182) /* OH MY GOD I GOT SOME HORRIBLE NEWS! */
18:34:52  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177801&oldid=177788 * StavWasPlayZ * (+256) 
19:00:03 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:07:28  At least some FORTRAN books use O with slash through it to indicate the letter
19:07:36  Which... is opposite from other conventions
19:17:38  Sgeo: https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2023-08-23.html#lK
19:24:46  "horrible news"... the "UNTIL 3:14" part makes me think that this may not even have happened
19:25:05  Time is a circle. And... I knew I was interested in 1401 for a while, but 2023 feels like.. longer ago than that. I think I'm losing track of how time works
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20:08:36  [[Codesh ()]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177802 * StavWasPlayZ * (+5575) Created page with "{{WIP}} {{infobox proglang |name= |paradigms=Object-Oriented |author=Eliran Ben Moshe, Stav Solomon |year=[[:Category:2026|2026]] |typesys=Static |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |refimpl= |in
20:11:52  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177803&oldid=177721 * StavWasPlayZ * (+24) Added Codesh
20:14:46  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177804&oldid=177803 * StavWasPlayZ * (+43) 
20:16:17  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177805&oldid=177802 * StavWasPlayZ * (+29) Add proper link to Java
20:17:48  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177806&oldid=177805 * StavWasPlayZ * (-9) 
20:18:28  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177807&oldid=177806 * StavWasPlayZ * (+8) 
20:26:22  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * StavWasPlayZ *  uploaded "[[File:Codesh Logo.png]]"
20:29:54  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177809&oldid=177807 * StavWasPlayZ * (+53) Add Codesh logo
20:43:33  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177810&oldid=177809 * StavWasPlayZ * (+0) Fix typo
20:44:18  int-e: Yeah, I don't know if that's a π thing or something. Though my own monitoring charts do suggest the wiki's been kinda up and down recently. https://zem.fi/tmp/probe.png
20:44:24  (For the usual reason.)
20:46:44  Hmmmm. Does the recurring slope come from a moving average?
20:47:51  I guess the two wider v4 only dips are about 3 hours long.
20:50:51  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177811&oldid=177810 * StavWasPlayZ * (+30) Make all codeblocks RTL
20:51:00  Yeah, let me guess... one probe every 5 minutes, and the graph is a moving average over 1 hour intervals.
20:55:26  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177812&oldid=177811 * StavWasPlayZ * (+82) 
20:59:47  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177813&oldid=177812 * StavWasPlayZ * (+28) More RTL
21:01:09  [[Codesh]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177814 * StavWasPlayZ * (+31) Redirected page to [[Codesh ()]]
21:05:42  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177815&oldid=177813 * StavWasPlayZ * (-105) Shorten Wikipedia links
21:09:06  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177816&oldid=177815 * StavWasPlayZ * (+56) 
21:15:44  [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177817 * StavWasPlayZ * (+31) Redirected page to [[Codesh ()]]
21:21:31  Your guess is: correct.
21:22:34  The graph is `avg_over_time(probe_success{instance=~"https://esolangs\\.org/.*"}[1h])` and the probe has `scrape_interval: 5m`.
21:25:51  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177818&oldid=177816 * StavWasPlayZ * (+260) Add See Also
21:40:41  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177819&oldid=177818 * StavWasPlayZ * (+146) 
21:48:09  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177820&oldid=177819 * StavWasPlayZ * (+90) Add missing Declaration of Origin from all code examples
22:07:14  [[File talk:Codesh Logo.png]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177821 * Aadenboy * (+378) Created page with "this image can't be hosted on the wiki if it's copyrighted (judging by the  on the bottom of the icon) ~~~~"
22:46:27  [[Talk:Main Page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177822&oldid=148523 * Qazwsxplm * (+132) /* Fix the name */
22:46:48  [[Talk:Main Page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177823&oldid=177822 * Qazwsxplm * (+1) /* Fix the name */
22:50:45  [[Talk:Main Page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177824&oldid=177823 * Qazwsxplm * (+239) 
23:27:43  https://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/fortran/C28-6515-7_FORTRAN_IV_Language_196810_upd_196903.pdf this manual uses "literal" where a modern programmer would say "string literal"
23:28:10  a string literal is a type of literal
23:28:39  oh right, FORTRAN doesn't have numeric literals
23:28:42  or didn't originally
23:28:54  if you wrote a number you got a variable initialised to that number, rather than a literal
23:29:10  (by convention you weren't supposed to assign to such variables, but it could happen by mistake on occasion)
23:29:57  this seems like the sort of feature that was originally introduced for implementation convenience and then became a backwards-compatibility requirement…
23:35:17  ais523, how would I... test that? 5 = 10 gave me a syntax error
23:35:23  (Using Fortran G on MUSIC/SP)
23:35:31  Sgeo: pass it to a function by reference
23:35:35  then assign to it inside the function
23:35:50  (via the argument)
23:44:30  I don't know how I would... prove anything weird happening, other than it not giving a compile time error. I can't write out the same "variable"
23:45:17  maybe call the function twice in a loop and have it print the old value of the argument before mutating it
23:50:32  https://gist.github.com/Sgeo/576c5f5d95b4780c50eb669b4fd67cce

2026-03-16:

00:00:37  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177825&oldid=177804 * Cleverxia * (+18) /* T */
00:06:41  Sgeo: the J manual calls strings (character arrays, possibly multidimensional, as opposed to arrays of numbers or boxed) literal too, see https://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help701/dictionary/dx003.htm
00:22:02  Sgeo: heh, I'd actually never seen it in action before (and assumed that it might have been fixed at some point, but apparently not?)
00:35:00  ais523, this compiler is Fortran G, which is for FORTRAN IV. So... not very new
00:40:44  I should probably delete those equal signs. I copy/pasted from MUSIC/SP's fullscreen editor
00:45:13  Same result on VS FORTRAN II, which I think is 77
00:58:51  FORTRAN IV subroutines can take... statement numbers as arguments. The subroutine can say which one to return control to
01:02:20  Hmm
01:02:21  "If a dummy argument is assigned a value in the subprogram, the corresponding actual argument must be a subscripted or unsubscripted variable
01:02:21  name, or an array name. A constant should not be specified as an actual
01:02:21  argument unless the programmer is certain that the corresponding dummy
01:02:21  argument is not assigned a value in the subprogram. 
01:02:22  "
01:02:51  ais523, is the behavior you stated in a spec somewhere or is it something akin to UB?
01:03:28  Sgeo: I'm not sure of the history – I knew at least some versions of Fortran acted like that, but not why
01:11:13  ais523: it makes sense, we're here fifty years later and we're still not sure how to consistently handle const correctness nicely without overhead like having to define multiple versions of subscripting methods. it's no surprise then that Fortran compilers back then would have considered enforcing const correctness a priority
01:13:46  https://archive.org/details/ansi-x-3.9-1966-fortran-66/page/24/mode/1up I think this is saying the same thing, and in fact states that expressions are sent by value
01:14:02  I should probably look at the 77 spec next
01:22:24  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177826&oldid=177546 * InLuaIKnow * (+68) 
01:25:51  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177827&oldid=177826 * InLuaIKnow * (+27) 
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03:00:24  https://fortranwiki.org/fortran/show/Modernizing+Old+Fortran
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03:21:13  FORTRAN II required function names to end with F
03:22:37  Actually not sure if that only applies to functions defined in single statements.
03:22:57  ...actually I'm even more confused now
03:27:20  Statement functions end with F, subprogram functions with names 4 characters or longer cannot have their name end with F
03:31:54  https://cyber.dabamos.de/programming/fortran/transcompiler/lecture01.pdf
03:38:15  "This statement is kind of boring. A CONTINUE just returns to the top of a loop." pretty sure this is flatly incorrect, CONTINUE is a noop
04:24:47  huh
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06:26:27  [[Esolang talk:Community portal]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177828&oldid=177800 * Dragoneater67 * (+305) /* OH MY GOD I GOT SOME HORRIBLE NEWS! */
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10:15:06  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177829&oldid=177791 * Qazwsxplm * (+117) 
10:30:30  [[List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177830&oldid=177829 * Qazwsxplm * (+154) 
10:31:20  [[TrainFuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177831 * Qazwsxplm * (+22) Redirected page to [[Trainfck]]
10:33:07  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177832&oldid=177830 * Qazwsxplm * (+39) 
10:33:44  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177833&oldid=177832 * Qazwsxplm * (-7) 
10:57:58  [[Crazy?]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177834&oldid=163661 * Qazwsxplm * (+30) 
11:35:58  [[List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177835&oldid=177833 * Qazwsxplm * (+907) 
11:36:31  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177836&oldid=177835 * Qazwsxplm * (+3) 
11:53:42  [[Minecraft]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177837&oldid=172359 * Qazwsxplm * (+37) 
12:26:52  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177838&oldid=177836 * Qazwsxplm * (+690) 
12:35:27  [[Esolangs.org]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177839&oldid=177787 * Qazwsxplm * (+43) 
12:36:20  [[Esolangs]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177840&oldid=147997 * Qazwsxplm * (+40) 
12:38:21  [[Esolangs (irc)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177841&oldid=145784 * Qazwsxplm * (-14) 
13:04:02  [[Bitch]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177842&oldid=75634 * Qazwsxplm * (+19) 
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13:41:25  [[List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177843&oldid=177838 * Qazwsxplm * (+1457) 
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14:05:20  korvo: do you know any Turing complete mnemonics?
15:08:22  [[Conti]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177844 * Hakerh400 * (+4938) +[[Conti]]
15:09:08  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177845&oldid=177825 * Hakerh400 * (+12) +[[Conti]]
15:09:26  [[User:Hakerh400]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177846&oldid=160517 * Hakerh400 * (+12) +[[Conti]]
15:13:46  [[Conti]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177847&oldid=177844 * Hakerh400 * (+156) 
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15:56:18  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Natalie *  New user account
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16:07:50  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177848&oldid=177801 * Natalie * (+282) 
16:17:15  lisbeths: I don't think so. I mean, I do have some stuff memorized, like LC or BF, but I don't use any tricks to remember them.
16:19:06  Korvo I think blc2 is a good language for turing complete mnemonics 
16:19:41  BLC is a fine encoding but I wouldn't want to write a compiler based on it. I'd rather have abstract syntax.
16:20:12  My current side project uses ABTs, Abstract Binding Trees, for LC. An ABT is an AST that supports abstraction, naming, and binding.
17:27:09  [[Esolang talk:Community portal]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177849&oldid=177828 * Ais523 * (+376) /* Site not loading */ more informative and less clickbaity section title; also explain what has been happening
17:37:00  [[Esolang talk:Community portal]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177850&oldid=177849 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+37) /* Site not loading */ suggestion
17:38:24  [[Esolangs (irc)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177851&oldid=177841 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+14) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/177841|177841]] by [[Special:Contributions/Qazwsxplm|Qazwsxplm]] ([[User talk:Qazwsxplm|talk]])
17:47:43  [[Conti]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177852&oldid=177847 * Hakerh400 * (+255) 
17:52:02  [[Conti]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177853&oldid=177852 * Hakerh400 * (+3) 
17:52:49  [[Conti]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177854&oldid=177853 * Hakerh400 * (-28) 
18:01:46  [[Conti]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177855&oldid=177854 * Hakerh400 * (+0) 
18:17:38  [[Esolangs.org]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177856&oldid=177839 * Aadenboy * (-43) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/177839|177839]] by [[Special:Contributions/Qazwsxplm|Qazwsxplm]] ([[User talk:Qazwsxplm|talk]])
18:18:20  [[Crazy?]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177857&oldid=177834 * Aadenboy * (-30) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/177834|177834]] by [[Special:Contributions/Qazwsxplm|Qazwsxplm]] ([[User talk:Qazwsxplm|talk]])
18:20:41  [[List of esolang file extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177858&oldid=177843 * Aadenboy * (-176) 
18:23:00  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Raff4814 *  New user account
18:28:43  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177859&oldid=177848 * Raff4814 * (+89) 
18:28:53  [[By+]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177860&oldid=164273 * Raff4814 * (+148) /* Interpreters */
18:34:29  [[By+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177861&oldid=177860 * Raff4814 * (+77) 
18:35:03  [[Conti]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177862&oldid=177855 * Hakerh400 * (-484) 
19:13:04  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177863&oldid=177547 * BODOKE2801e * (+211) /* Syntax */
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19:13:44  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177864&oldid=177863 * BODOKE2801e * (+58) /* Templates */
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20:11:50  [[Shinjusou]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177865 * Sporeball * (+5059) create Shinjusou page
20:13:56  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177866&oldid=177845 * Sporeball * (+16) /* S */ add Shinjusou to the language list
20:15:35  [[User:Sporeball]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177867&oldid=177577 * Sporeball * (+23) /* Published languages */ add Shinjusou
20:41:45  [[Minecraft]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177868&oldid=177837 * Ractangle * (-37) not an offical command
20:43:42  [[Esolangs]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177869&oldid=177840 * Ractangle * (-40) i think just putting the esolang name whould make it understandable
20:44:59  [[Bitch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177870&oldid=177842 * Ractangle * (-51) idk if the name is offically censored, but you still can censor it!
21:18:55  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177871&oldid=177864 * BODOKE2801e * (+219) /* Fibonacci numbers */
21:29:10  [[Talk:Smallfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177872&oldid=93972 * Photostar * (+1602) 
21:35:06  [[Talk:Smallfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177873&oldid=177872 * Photostar * (+52) 
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23:34:55  [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177874&oldid=177850 * Somefan * (+59) ununsign

2026-03-17:

00:48:24  [[InterpretMe]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177875&oldid=174178 * Photostar * (+98) Added an even more golfed version of the IM interpreter using lambda
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03:15:48  [[InterpretMe]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177876&oldid=177875 * Dragoneater67 * (+92) 
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13:53:56  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177877&oldid=177491 * TheCatFromGithub * (+27) forgot to add my name when i added a dialect in 2025
13:57:06  [[(trademark symbol)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177878 * TheCatFromGithub * (+17) Redirected page to [[]]
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14:34:14  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177879&oldid=177661 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+186) more clarifications
14:43:56  [[Https://esolangs.org]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177880 * TheCatFromGithub * (+1104) Created page with "{{DISPLAYTITLE:https://esolangs.org}}  '''https://esolangs.org''' is an esolang created by [[User:TheCatFromGithub]] in 2026.   ==Instructions== {| class="wikitable" ! Instruction !! What it does !! Example |- | esolangs X || The progr
14:44:27  [[Https://esolangs.org]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177881&oldid=177880 * TheCatFromGithub * (+17) 
14:47:53  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177882&oldid=177879 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+15) yes
14:50:32  [[User:TheCatFromGithub]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177883&oldid=171022 * TheCatFromGithub * (+62) 
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14:51:32  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177884&oldid=177866 * TheCatFromGithub * (+28) /* H */
14:54:50  [[Https://esolangs.org]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177885&oldid=177881 * Aadenboy * (-15) formatting
14:55:22  [[Https://esolangs.org]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177886&oldid=177885 * Aadenboy * (+50) 
14:55:44  [[Esolangs]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177887&oldid=177869 * Aadenboy * (+62) 
14:56:11  [[Esolangs.org]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177888&oldid=177856 * Aadenboy * (+78) 
14:56:32  [[Esolangs.org]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177889&oldid=177888 * Aadenboy * (+21) /* See also */
14:57:06  [[Esolangs.org]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177890&oldid=177889 * Aadenboy * (-13) silly workaround
14:57:20  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177891&oldid=177882 * Dragoneater67mobile * (-4) /* Phase 2 */
14:57:21  [[Esolangs]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177892&oldid=177887 * Aadenboy * (+8) /* See also */
14:58:44  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177893&oldid=177891 * Dragoneater67mobile * (-68) /* Phase 2 */
15:03:12  [[User:Somefan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177894&oldid=170857 * Somefan * (+20) add github link and reword Pb section
15:03:26  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177895&oldid=177893 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+48) 
15:05:20  [[User:Somefan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177896&oldid=177894 * Somefan * (+0) 
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15:12:57  [[Esolang talk:Community portal]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177897&oldid=177874 * Dragoneater67mobile * (-5) /* Site not loading */
15:31:22  [[User:Dragoneater67]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177898&oldid=177489 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+95) /* but really... */
15:41:42  [[User:Dragoneater67]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177899&oldid=177898 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+0) /* but really... */ typo
16:09:34 -!- joast has joined.
17:00:59  [[Abcout]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177900&oldid=170564 * Sporeball * (-20) unmask User links, per policy
17:01:54  [[Naz]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177901&oldid=82108 * Sporeball * (-20) unmask User links, per policy
17:04:25  [[User:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177902&oldid=177540 * Aadenboy * (-21864) Replaced content with "{{DISPLAYTITLE:User: aadenboy}}"
17:04:37  [[User:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177903&oldid=177902 * Aadenboy * (+21864) that was NOT the preview button
18:29:06  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177904&oldid=177820 * StavWasPlayZ * (+0) 
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19:17:17  [[Trans Lobster]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177905 * Hotcrystal0 * (+34) Redirected page to [[]]
19:18:00  [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177906&oldid=165770 * Hotcrystal0 * (-128) 
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20:17:48  [[Terrible Python]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177907 * Tommyaweosme * (+140) Created page with "Terrible Python is an esolang that only Matt Parker knows. That's why he references it in so many of his videos. [[Category:Joke Languages]]"
20:17:58  [[Terrible Python]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177908&oldid=177907 * Tommyaweosme * (+0) 
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22:11:08  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177909&oldid=177904 * StavWasPlayZ * (+1719) 
22:14:44  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177910&oldid=177909 * StavWasPlayZ * (+27) Fix language syntax
22:15:25  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177911&oldid=177910 * StavWasPlayZ * (+10) 
22:15:53  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177912&oldid=177911 * StavWasPlayZ * (-2) 
22:21:56  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177913&oldid=177912 * StavWasPlayZ * (+1) 
22:23:30 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:27:03  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177914&oldid=177913 * StavWasPlayZ * (+22) 
22:44:16  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177915&oldid=177914 * StavWasPlayZ * (+49) 
22:48:37  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177916&oldid=177915 * StavWasPlayZ * (+27) 
22:50:47  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177917&oldid=177916 * StavWasPlayZ * (+19) 
22:58:00  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177918&oldid=177917 * StavWasPlayZ * (+0) 
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23:17:49  afternoon
23:18:02  currently working on a brainfuck interpreter in countable
23:27:29  Fun.
23:27:41  it surprisingly is!
23:28:08  for being a tarpit (at least I think it is...) it's not terribly hard to program in
23:28:52  most that's stalls me is pointer management but that's not too hard itself
23:56:03  got it working: it was able to cat "Hello, world!" from the program ,[.[-],] in a whole 2 seconds
23:56:55  ,[.>,] is faster at 0.057s (user time)
23:57:40  both were with a tape size of 5 cells
23:57:42  6*

2026-03-18:

00:01:08  Congrats!
00:11:03  made a small space optimization and got it down to 0.045s
00:12:31  I only now realize the > is not necessary in that program
00:13:20  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177919&oldid=177918 * StavWasPlayZ * (+94) 
00:15:09  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177920&oldid=177919 * StavWasPlayZ * (+3) 
00:21:22  holy shit it is slow
00:21:28  hahahahah
00:22:33  aI bet it would be faster if I could transpile it to C like I did with Iterate but trying to manage Countable's memory structure in C does not sound fun
00:24:28  [[Countable/brainfuck interpreter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177921 * Aadenboy * (+7311) Created page with "{{Back/Countable}} [[brainfuck]] interpreter in [[Countable]].   
 0+15 // builder 1+15 // program end location 2+5 // tape length sub one (adjust as needed) 3+0  // program position pointer 4+0  // new program position pointer 5+0  // tape 
00:24:34  [[Countable/brainfuck interpreter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177922&oldid=177921 * Aadenboy * (+0) 
00:24:52  nothing further I have for it unless there's some hidden bug I don't know about
00:25:03  [[Countable/brainfuck interpreter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177923&oldid=177922 * Aadenboy * (+1) sigh
00:27:43  [[Countable]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177924&oldid=177648 * Aadenboy * (+89) /* Countable */ list all TC languages implemented in Countable (the last two are bounded but whatever)
00:28:01  [[Countable]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177925&oldid=177924 * Aadenboy * (+1) /* Completeness */ ...
00:29:02  [[EsoInterpreters]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177926&oldid=175509 * Aadenboy * (+31) add [[Countable/brainfuck interpreter]] as entry
00:30:57  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177927&oldid=177920 * StavWasPlayZ * (+0) 
00:33:41  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177928&oldid=177927 * StavWasPlayZ * (-19) 
00:34:17  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177929&oldid=177928 * StavWasPlayZ * (+6) 
00:44:01  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177930&oldid=177929 * StavWasPlayZ * (-53) 
00:45:41  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177931&oldid=177930 * StavWasPlayZ * (-49) 
00:46:36  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177932&oldid=177931 * StavWasPlayZ * (-10) 
00:49:30  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177933&oldid=177932 * StavWasPlayZ * (+30) 
00:52:29  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177934&oldid=177933 * StavWasPlayZ * (+5) 
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01:31:38  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177935&oldid=177934 * StavWasPlayZ * (+118) 
01:43:40  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177936&oldid=177935 * StavWasPlayZ * (-7) 
02:17:43 -!- aadenboy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
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03:34:29  goodnight
03:34:32 -!- aadenboy has quit (Quit: goodbye for now! back another day).
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09:26:56  [[Talk:EsoInterpreters]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177937&oldid=119673 * Blashyrkh * (+213) /* Almost-implementations */
09:28:31  [[Talk:EsoInterpreters]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177938&oldid=177937 * Blashyrkh * (+1) /* Almost-implementations */
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13:19:36  [[BoxedLANG]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177939&oldid=175927 * Dragoneater67 * (+1478) overhaul
13:20:12  [[BoxedLANG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177940&oldid=177939 * Dragoneater67 * (-2) 
13:24:08  [[BoxedLANG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177941&oldid=177940 * Dragoneater67 * (+83) /* Language overview */ escape
13:25:25  [[BoxedLANG]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177942&oldid=177941 * Mc20000 * (+7) /* I/O */
13:36:43  [[Talk:Plushie-complete]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177943&oldid=168757 * Mc20000 * (+58) /* A lot of Esolangs are Plushie-complete */   add boxedLANG to the list
14:27:23  [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177944&oldid=177498 * PlaceReporter99 * (+120) 
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14:57:54  [[Countable]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177945&oldid=177925 * Aadenboy * (+692) sections + switch case
14:58:44  [[Countable]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177946&oldid=177945 * Aadenboy * (+8) 
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15:49:07  [[BoxedLANG]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177947&oldid=177942 * Dragoneater67 * (-5) /* I/O */
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17:25:37  [[C/Cb]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177948&oldid=177569 * Mrmr2 * (+15057) Added info
17:26:18  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Mrmr2 *  uploaded "[[File:Tabs.png]]"
17:26:45  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Mrmr2 *  uploaded "[[File:Editor.png]]"
17:27:12  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Mrmr2 *  uploaded "[[File:Opening files.png]]"
17:27:19  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Mrmr2 *  uploaded "[[File:Side bar.png]]"
17:35:36  [[C/Cb]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177953&oldid=177948 * Aadenboy * (-63) reformat lede
17:36:52  hi
17:40:00  [[Countable/brainfuck interpreter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177954&oldid=177923 * Aadenboy * (+76) fix
17:44:46  [[C/Cb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177955&oldid=177953 * Mrmr2 * (+248) Added combing up bow ref
17:47:46  [[C/Cb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177956&oldid=177955 * Mrmr2 * (+0) Strikethrough edit
17:51:02  [[C/Cb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177957&oldid=177956 * Mrmr2 * (+493) Infobox change
17:51:20  [[C/Cb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177958&oldid=177957 * Mrmr2 * (-493) Infobox change
17:53:10  [[C/Cb]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177959&oldid=177958 * Mrmr2 * (+440) 
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17:53:31  [[C/Cb]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177960&oldid=177959 * Mrmr2 * (-555) 
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18:28:28  [[XKCD Random Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177961&oldid=177014 * BODOKE2801e * (+175) /* > only */
18:28:57  [[Random number generator]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177962&oldid=127370 * BODOKE2801e * (-86) 
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19:00:02  [[Random number generator]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177963&oldid=177962 * Aadenboy * (-5) 
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21:26:10  [[BoxedLANG]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177964&oldid=177947 * Mc20000 * (+67) /* External resources */
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22:42:55  I had described before about computer, operating system, file system, etc. About the file system, I would think that it can be separated the abstract format from the actual format of the implementation, and that there might also be the specification of being able to include such a file system inside of another one (such as a DVD file system) as well as stand-alone.
22:46:14 -!- lisbeths has joined.
22:49:02  (It is different from other file systems; files can have numbered forks (with 32-bit numbers), files do not have names, the data of a file can include links as well as bytes, there can be versioned links, it lacks most of the metadata used in other file systems (although they can be stored in forks), etc.)
22:49:53  we already have the abstract file system separated from the actual format. the operating system gives you mostly the same interface for different underlying file systems, and I believe a lot of the implementation inside the kernel is shared too.
22:51:20  Yes, but even then there are differences between file systems; e.g. some have forks, limits of file name lengths, transactions, etc.
23:05:07  A different interface would be needed for what I had described; functions such as fopen will not work (although fopencookie, fmemopen, open_memstream, etc can still be used).
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2026-03-19:

01:05:27 -!- lisbeths has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
02:03:55 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
02:07:21  files not having names would break an assumption made by a very large number of programs
02:12:33  Yes, although not programs that are written deliberately for this system. Even for programs that do care about the names (and other things, such as permissions, etc), compatibility libraries are possible if needed, although the program could also be canged to reduce the cases where the name is needed.
02:15:19  fwiw, I think it's generally correct for programs not to be able to see the names of files they're given as capabilities (but to nonetheless be able to display them to the user, presumably by passing the file descriptor directly to the UI to print its name)
02:15:41  although I've forgotten why I came to that conclusion
02:16:32 -!- amby has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:16:46  My reason might be different although possibly similar
02:18:46  one thing it does is to prevent the program trying to reopen the file via means other than the capability it's given (which might be, e.g., a TOCTOU bug), but I don't think that was the original reason (but maybe it was?)
02:29:37  That is one possible reason; another possible reason is to ensure that the program does not care about the file name.
02:34:53  If you pass a file capability as a argument to a uxn program, then the uxn emulator could make up a temporary name to refer to it within that program; you can also have separate arguments to optionally define mappings (others will be needed too, such as: standard I/O streams, date/time capability, audio capability, display capability, etc; any of them can be omitted if those features are not used)
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03:12:55  Hooray, Pantagruel has been ported to OCaml and now I can install it with Nix! But the port was done by Claude, boo. It seems to work somewhat, but the newer parts of the syntax are very uninspired and it feels like the clever spark of creativity is gone.
06:29:53  Programs should refer to files by "ddnames" then the user should use a DD statement to connect a ddname with an actual file
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08:42:06  [[BoxedLANG]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177965&oldid=177964 * Dragoneater67 * (+106) /* Language overview */
08:47:34  [[S*bleq]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177966&oldid=164596 * Dragoneater67 * (+1) typo?
09:38:41 -!- tromp has joined.
10:53:27  [[User:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177967&oldid=177639 * Widuruwana * (-5858) Removing
10:54:04  [[User:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177968&oldid=177967 * Widuruwana * (+5858) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/177967|177967]] by [[Special:Contributions/Widuruwana|Widuruwana]] ([[User talk:Widuruwana|talk]])
11:05:26  [[User:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177969&oldid=177968 * Widuruwana * (-589) GruvBox Route
11:08:53  [[User:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177970&oldid=177969 * Widuruwana * (-555) GruvBox is too colorful. Trying a computer modern aesthetic.
11:17:13  [[User:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177971&oldid=177970 * Widuruwana * (+1444) Added citrus color palette to reflect the logo
13:02:36  you're not trying to break grep -H or head -v with multiple filenames, are you? 
13:13:37  [[C/Cb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177972&oldid=177960 * Mrmr2 * (-246) Small update
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13:43:38  [[User talk:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177973&oldid=177641 * Aadenboy * (+353) 
13:45:25  [[C/Cb]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177974&oldid=177972 * Mrmr2 * (+198) /* Other */ added break and continue
13:46:54  [[C/Cb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177975&oldid=177974 * Mrmr2 * (+10) /* Break */ /* Continue */ Small visual change
13:50:50  [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177976&oldid=177884 * Mrmr2 * (+14) /* C */  added C/Cb
13:51:03  [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177977&oldid=177976 * Mrmr2 * (+0) /* C */
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14:29:07  [[C/Cb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177978&oldid=177975 * Mrmr2 * (+824) Added unary ops
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14:57:28  [[User talk:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177979&oldid=177973 * Aadenboy * (+315) 
15:12:51  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * TurkuazMavisi *  New user account
15:21:10  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177980&oldid=177859 * TurkuazMavisi * (+287) /* Introductions */
16:36:46  [[User:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177981&oldid=177971 * Widuruwana * (+681) Fixed the fonts and unevenness
16:41:48  [[C/Cb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177982&oldid=177978 * Mrmr2 * (+219) /* Composer Shortcuts */  Added more Composer Shortcuts
16:57:41  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177983&oldid=177936 * StavWasPlayZ * (+0) 
16:58:54  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177984&oldid=177983 * StavWasPlayZ * (+0) 
17:09:50  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177985&oldid=177984 * StavWasPlayZ * (-2) 
17:10:38  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177986&oldid=177985 * StavWasPlayZ * (+2) 
17:28:04  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177987&oldid=177986 * StavWasPlayZ * (+308) 
17:31:51  [[Codesh ()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177988&oldid=177987 * StavWasPlayZ * (-1) 
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18:48:08  [[C/Cb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177989&oldid=177982 * Mrmr2 * (+6) /* For */ Corrected for syntax
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20:16:55  [[Bolaga]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177990&oldid=176898 * Fly * (+86) /* Implementations */
20:26:36  [[User:Aadenboy/Live stats]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177991&oldid=169811 * Aadenboy * (+587) automatically calculate the dates for each percentile for the 32-bit signed unix death (did you know we're 82.61% of the way there? woohoo!)
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21:35:03  hello
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21:37:11  25 seconds, 22 seconds, will we see a third attempt?
21:39:49 -!- somefan has joined.
21:39:56  yes
21:40:04  hey
21:40:09  hello!
21:44:48  didn't know cycling through servers meant to constantly reconnect to them
21:44:58  fyi, i'm using ircii
21:46:51  b_jonas: FWIW, I implemented this thing from 5 months ago, https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-mam-critical.png in my 6 MAM setup but it's still failing to reach 200/s in 30 seconds. It's closer, it gets like 180/s, up from 165 or 170/s. (It's surprisingly hard to measure reliably.)
21:47:15  So. It helped, but arguably wasn't worth it :P
21:51:03  (I should probably redesign the bottom part of my MAM, somehow, no idea what it would look like. But the distance travelled there is substantial.)
21:56:56  int-e: wait, this is back to shapez 1
21:57:16  b_jonas: Yes. It's a diversion :P
21:59:19  oh, you made a critical path shorter using long tunnel layout?
21:59:23  I have been playing shapez 2 too. My basic MAM is working: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez2-12-MAM.jpg (platforms repeat 5 times because shapes in this mode have 5 slices) ...thinking about crystals now.
21:59:42  b_jonas: the reduction is in having filters on both sides for the color selection
21:59:49  there were tunnels there regardless
22:00:07  https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tree-mam/#select is the old version
22:00:47  (I also flipped the side where the supply side for the shapes)
22:00:53  what are the bright green horizontal lines in https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez2-12-MAM.jpg ?
22:00:57  (Which was fun when I redid the belts)
22:01:39  b_jonas: local signal transfers (used to cross over stuff)
22:01:50  I see
22:02:41  Huh, https://shapez2.wiki.gg/wiki/Wire#Wire_Transmitter_and_Receiver doesn't have pictures
22:03:37  wiring feels very different because it doesn't have a layer to itself.
22:03:53  so you pretty much need stuff like this
22:08:52  somefan: IRC is a tree with no cycles in, you can't ever be connected in two places at once by the nature of how it works
22:09:09  this sometimes causes "netsplits" when a link breaks and the servers aren't immediately able to compensate by creating a link elsewhere
22:09:49  (it is possible to connect to Libera twice, but only if you use a different nick for each connection, and then both connections appear as users in the users list)
22:24:47  [[Codesh ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177992&oldid=177988 * StavWasPlayZ * (+28) 
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23:10:07  Nick-colliding others through netsplits (generally to take over channels) was basically the national sport of IRCnet, before they did the timestamping thing.
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23:34:43  fizzie: wait, how would that work? if you take a colliding nick during a netsplit then the servers merge, won't the network decide which user has channel ops by inheriting it from the component of the network where that user was already connected, regardless the nicks?
23:36:16  as in why do the nicks matter at all for this?
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23:46:02  that'd be the timestamping thing I beileve, where the older channel wins during a merge
23:46:34  or well older nick in this case I guess
23:47:24  hm
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23:48:07  right never mind me, now I see the question.. maybe due to service bots going by nickname though

2026-03-20:

00:06:06  oh, you mean the channel is uncreated in a small network component?
00:06:38  that might make sense
00:07:01  I did accidentally conflate two things there. You could use nick collisions to take over a _nickname_ (IRCnet used to just boot both participants in a nickname collision), which is mostly orthogonal to the channel takeover bit (which you could indeed do by recreating the channel in the side of the split that had no users, if applicable).
00:07:23  Though you could "take over" a channel by judicious use of nickname collisions as well, by causing all of its current operators to lose chanop status.
00:07:35  Sure, you wouldn't get ops either, but neither would they.
00:12:25  And actually I think IRCnet might not actually have adopted the timestamping some other networks did (where only the older instance of a channel gets to keep op status after a merge), because they introduced the "uncollideable" !-channels instead.
00:13:39  (You create !-channels explicitly, by attempting to join !!foo, and their actual name gets a server-generated random prefix, so you couldn't create an identically named channel on the other side of a split.)
00:15:21  They're still kind of awkward, because while you can join !foo when it's unique, if the network ends up with two instances (after a split), people will need to use the full name with the random prefix.
00:16:10  I see
00:16:19  The IRCnet channel for the Assembly demoscene (and esports) event is colloquially !assembly, but its actual name is !UCR7Kassembly.
00:20:23  Out of the 11 IRCnet channels I'm still on, 10 have nobody with channel operator status, but it hardly matters since there's barely any discussion on any of them.
00:23:07  I think one might have the reop mode set (that's another of the "new ircd" changes, a ban-like nick!user@host mask except a random client matching that mask will be given op status if nobody else on the channel has it), but it's set to a domain name owned by the university nobody on the channel is affiliated with any more.
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01:13:36  b_jonas: at least my version (where you can output the filename for an FD to the user but not see it yourself) would be compatible with grep -H
01:13:43  although it would depend somewhat on how the UI framework worked
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02:01:26  absolutely not. I want to be able to process the filename further. if not with grep -H then with grep -l or a custom perl script that searches through multiple files. but I don't think this is a problem if you pass filenames rather than file descriptors to grep, thus basically opting in to revealing the filenames to the program
02:11:07  isn't passing filenames to grep insecure because they could refer to a different file by the time grep runs?
02:11:39  also I think it's generally a bad idea if you have some info that you can display on the screen but not read with a local program, that's usually used for DRM only
02:13:11  ais523: a different file from what? usually I have grep open them. if you really want to pass existing file descriptors with informational filename separately, you could of course have an option for that, but then you also have to decide if grep should read those files from the start or from the lseek position
02:14:19  b_jonas: the file that the user intended to run grep on could be different from the file that grep sees as having that filename (e.g. because a symlink was repointed or two directories were renamed)
02:14:39  I find it hard to think of a threat model that would work against a human here, but I think there are threat models that work against computers
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02:42:33  If you wanted grep with the kind of system I was thinking of, you can have a function that accepts a list (or a key/value list) of the files that you want to search (either entered manually or by using an existing list from another file (allowing it to work like a directory) or filters etc), and then the searching program is called for each one, and each result is made into a pair with the keys and combined into one list.
02:43:17  The command shell (CAQL) would be possible without too much difficulty to do this, by using the built-in operators for map, filter, etc; or you can define it as a function to use it later without entering it each time.
02:58:38  LLMs can't write Brainfuck: https://esolang-bench.vercel.app/
03:02:12  korvo: they should probably have been told to comment it heavily, they would have had a better chance then
03:02:30  the thing about BF is that it doesn't have much obvious structure for a viewer to grab onto
03:02:43  you need a lot of context to make sense of parts of a BF program, whether LLM or human
03:03:15  that said, I've become pretty good at editing uncommented BF Joust programs, but they tend to have a very simple control-flow structure (where the two halves of an if-equivalent never converge)
03:03:31  Meh. People can read cursive Cyrillic script (search for "russian cursive" in image search, despair) so I'm not really convinced by the argument that eight symbols is too simple.
03:04:05  it's not simplicity, but lack of anchors
03:04:17  I think that a better explanation comes straight out of Kolmogorov complexity, combined with the fact that our modeling maths ensures that more data => better perf on benchmarks.
03:04:54  your link says 0% success on Whitespace and theorises it's because Whitespace is completely unrepresented in the training data (on the hypothesis that training data treats all whitespace as equivalent so all the programs would have been normalised out)
03:05:07  IKR? Hilarious.
03:05:33  I think that's a plausible hypothesis, although there's enough Whitespace with printable characters added that there should be *something* to latch on to
03:06:35  agents doing better than direct prompting is what I expected, incidentally – my belief about LLM usage is that the scaffolding is actually substantially more important than the LLM itself
03:07:31  (and that a sufficiently good scaffolding could generate useful code when connected to a random number generator, although it'd take a while)
03:07:58  Sure. The scaffolding includes design patterns, "object-oriented", and lots of other cultural lessons from the 80s and 90s. The ontology of our memes is what drives the ontology of the LLM; the LLM is a meme machine.
03:08:44  (https://lobste.rs/s/oysxby/functional_genetic_programming This is the correct paper to read if you want to use an RNG to generate correct, useful programs. It's from two decades ago.)
03:09:27  I realised that the main value of the LLM (which is a value provided in much greater quantities by human programmers) is to fill in unstated bits of the spec with useful values
03:10:14  the LLM does so by matching examples in the training data where people solved similar problems and using the same unstated decisions (or at least, that would be the ideal – often it chooses a useless option instead like using a very inefficient algorithm)
03:11:14  hmm, this page writes BF using a ligature font
03:11:28  most people wouldn't interpret ← as meaning "move left than decrement"
03:11:48  (OK, INTERCAL does this sort of thing but it does it *because* it's inappropriate)
03:13:56  ais523: Yes, fully agreed. In particular, there was a tool about a decade ago which un-minimized JS using two main techniques: resugaring for idiom recognition to undo JSFuck-style expressions, and language modeling to predict the names of alpha-equivalent binders (vars, fns, etc.)
03:14:21  ooh, I like the idea of using a language model to predict variable names
03:14:41  it's the sort of thing that could usually help a lot in decompiling and would occasionally go spectacularly wrong, but would still probably help on average
03:15:06  Of course, we can go the other way too. Concatenative language authors are also tired of naming things, and we get rid of them by adopting techniques that get rid of names entirely. This could be another reason that BF's hard to generate: trivial alpha-equivalence means that it's not possible to hint at a program's Naur theory that way.
03:15:53  LLMs rely a lot on names I think
03:16:10  human programmers are usually mildly suspicious of them, although they do rely on them to some extent
03:17:37  Hungarian notation gives hints to the decoding of referents. `def f(sortedList)` and `def f(unsortedList)` will hint as intended to both humans and LLMs. In general, if a hint is wholly syntactic, the LLM can see it.
03:18:19  ...Huh, do we want a Rice's theorem for LLMs? Like, if something is wholly semantic, it seems that it's often not detected by the LLM. Anything that relies on the ambient effect of gravity, for example.
03:18:23  today on NetHackWiki we were trying to figure out what to do about someone who was advertising their NetHack variant that was allegedly a port of NetHack from C to Rust, but had actually been produced via a mix of LLM-automated code translation and LLM-automated "derive a spec from the code, then write code from the spec"
03:18:57  this had the sort of grandiose claims you might imagine and the code was also much like you might imagine (and AFAICT wouldn't actually work, but I didn't try running it)
03:19:52  Hungarian notation is interesting for this because it's basically taking a compiler-enforceable property (static typing) and doing human enforceability of it instead
03:20:16  there are only two programs I've written where I voluntarily used Hungarian notation
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03:20:36  one of them was in JS when the lack of types was making the hardware too hard to reason about (I wasn't aware of TypeScript at the time, or maybe it hadn't been invented yet)
03:21:36  and the other was in a computer game's scripting language where I had a large number of variables which referenced different aspects of the same thing (with different types) – the developers' own programs in that language used Hungarian notation, and it was useful for me to use it too in order to keep track of what aspect of something I was tracking (giving the variables names which were the same apart from the type prefix)
03:22:16  FWIW the pattern of mocking the author, critiquing the bad code emitted by the bot, and banning the author is pretty good. If you critique them properly then they'll leave on their own.
03:22:53  I still use Hungarian notation when writing Python. Lists get an "s" at the end, as in `for x in xs: ...`
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03:23:52  Today's fun physics challenge for LLMs is hilarious. Not a single bot understands: "Please describe the outcome of the following physics experiment. First, I hold a pen in the air with my right hand around one end of the pen. Then, I wrap my left hand around the other end of the pen. I adjust my grip so that the weight of the pen is equally shared between both hands."
03:23:59  "Finally, I execute the following sequence of hand movements: left hand open, left hand closed, right hand open, right hand closed. What happens next?"
03:24:26  just to make sure I've read this correctly, the intended answer is "nothing", right?
03:25:06  Yep. The pen stays in place. The experimenter can choose to shift their grip, but if you ask this of a schoolchild then they'll intuitively try to avoid dropping it and unconsciously position their hands to balance the pen.
03:25:34  Models will say that the pen eventually falls, that the pen slowly shifts from side to side, that the pen levitates, that the pen's weight changes due to gravity, etc.
03:26:14  I noticed during the Claude Plays Pokémon thing that LLMs were very bad at reasoning about real-world physical operations that are too commonplace and trivial to be documented much
03:26:38  for example, it had difficulty understanding that in order to walk through a door, you need to be lined up with the door (i.e. the presence of a door doesn't allow you to walk through the wall next to it)
03:27:21  this is the sort of fact that is too obvious to be mentioned very often
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03:29:51 * ais523 fights the temptation to ask an LLM "how does a doorway work?"
03:30:04  …partly because I don't think you'd get a useful answer to that from many humans, either
03:30:50  First, the doorway stands in the job line, then the doorway fills out tax and citizenship papers, and finally the doorway shows up every weekday at 8AM to report for duty.
03:31:47  LLMs can't answer like that because it's not compatible with their RLHF flavoring. The RLHF chosen is roughly "paranoid fake-cheery customer-service phone agent"
03:32:43  I imagine a civil engineer would focus on how the doorway prevents the wall from collapsing while still allowing people to pass through
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03:33:16  And if we would fire a customer-service agent for it then we'd also punish a bot in RL for it. Hilariously, this sort of personality is so *obviously fake* that the bots learn to do the whole neurodivergent-masking thing and they *pretend* to be cheerful. Like, when we do bertology (LLM neuroscience), we find that they're deliberately misaligned and presenting a false view of (what they learned to be) reality.
03:33:22  which is at least *slightly* nontrivial (in that I've known people who were attempting to create doorways to get it wrong in the past)
03:34:32  it's weird that companies do that, given that customers don't typically want to talk to artificially cheerful customer service agents anyway
03:35:16  and I think this is true even of customers other than me, although maybe for different reasons (I consider that sort of forced artificial cheerfulness to have no information content because it's forced, so it just wastes time)
03:35:28  It's partially for safety. RLHF isn't the same thing as "guardrails" (brute text replacement, think Scunthorpe problems) but it still has the effect of avoiding "bad" conversations by making them exponentially unlikely.
03:36:37  oh, it wouldn't surprise me if the LLMs associate that sort of artificial cheerfulness with avoiding NSFW topics (both in the adult-content sense and in the dangerous-content sense)
03:36:39  Like, there was a Googler named Lemione who gave themselves AI psychosis by chatting repeatedly with an un-RL'd (under-RL'd?) bot whose model would later be RLHF'd into Google's Gemini product. Lemione's two mistakes were believing in God and thinking that the bot had a soul.
03:37:42  But, like, I know atheists who are suffering fairly bad AI psychoses right now, so Lemione's mistakes must be circumstantial. And RLHF doesn't prevent it, just makes it exponentially less likely. So maybe a better conclusion from the outside is that Lemione was like a nuclear engineer who was exposed to radiation: it's an overdose from a workplace hazard.
03:39:34  Actually, yeah. The bots learn *every common code-switchable dialect of English*. So they know how to use the "hunbot" dialect common with MLM pushers, Mormon moms, and crunchy influencers. They also know the "conman" dialect that used to be standard in USA businesses before it was replaced with today's "MBA" dialect.
03:40:32  there are a lot of difficult/controversial/dangerous-ground topics that, in effect, can't be expressed in artificially cheerful customer-service-representative English – it's a bit like 1984's Newspeak
03:44:01  hmm, that LLM-esolangs-bench suggested Malbolge as a possibility in the future work section
03:44:20  I feel like this may be a bad idea, given that few humans can write even the simplest programs in Malbolge
03:44:33  even given a specification
03:45:39  Yeah. I think Malbolge is great to include for the same reason that Bubblegum would be great, except that Malbolge's lineage and history give it cultural plausibility. The reason is that Transformers aren't magically solving NP-hard problems with a poly number of tokens, regardless of how artfully you arrange them.
03:46:41  also the appendix here implies that even the BF programs were made to do arithmetic in decimal
03:46:44  I would expect an AGI (whatever that is~) to be able to do some meta-thinking here and note the NP-hardness before delegating the search to a loop in a fast language. That's about what a college student can do and it's often enough to brute-force through small or easy instances of a problem.
03:47:16  (and converting ASCII to an integer is probably in their "very hard" tier, so no wonder the LLMs struggled with it)
03:48:49  hmm, human solution of NP-hard problems is complicated because we can be either very good at it or very bad at it depending on the nature of the problem (i.e. whether there's a reasoning-based solution or whether it requires brute force)
03:49:06  BTW I'm noticing Moravec's paradox in your analysis, but also more generally when reading these sorts of benchmark papers. LLMs seem to be great at applying the highest-level design patterns: ASTs, homomorphisms, subclasses, case analysis. They also do great when we've covered the theory in textbooks, as when writing lexers by simulating the unrolling of macros.
03:49:21  And they suck at writing tiny tight loops that only use a few low-level CPU instructions.
03:49:41  humans are pretty good at Sudoku, for example (if you allow for them computing more slowly than a computer brute-forcer would), but that's primarily because for 9×9 Sudokus (the usual size) the odds of the problem not falling quickly to a SAT solver are pretty low
03:50:10  Oh, I just meant to allude to Malbolge's history. I got the impression that the first two waves of Malbolge programmers were working with brute-force search to find working encryptions of their programs.
03:51:13  yes
03:51:46  But also, Moravec's paradox is about the *amount* of code. Let's say that we have a little embedded device running Linux, like an iPod or Game Boy Advance. (I'm getting old~) The device only has like 8MiB RAM (old!) and Linux takes half of that. Maybe all of the high-level game-specific or app-specific code is another MiB? And the rest is art assets.
03:51:55  it was a while even before anyone realised that straight-line Malbolge code was comparatively easy to write because the encryption didn't matter
03:52:28  I actually don't know what the minimal RAM requirements of a correctly configured Linux are
03:52:36  So the LLM's competence at working in the userspace half of RAM says nothing about the kernelspace. And to the extent that the LLM can write new kernel code, it's because it's writing *driver* code, which is highly structured and formulaic.
03:53:16  I remember those numbers at the time. I tried GBA Linux, and it was awesome, but I had to use a RAM expansion pack. Worth it for the ability to play my old Game Boy games once the cartridges were no longer compatible.
03:54:22  I would expect many programs won't need multiple megabytes of code and art? Also, you do not need Linux to run Game Boy games on Game Boy Advance; there is an emulator that can run directly on Game Boy Advance, I think.
03:55:33  neither Game Boy games on GBA nor GBA games on DS use an emulator, I think
03:55:43  (The emulator can also be used to play Game Boy on Nintendo DS as well)
03:55:56  IIRC they're both a somewhat reconfigured bare-metal, a bit like running under a hypervisor
03:56:14  If you use a Game Boy cartridge on GBA then an emulator is not needed, but if you are using a GBA cartridge then you will need a emulator.
03:56:40  (Game Boy cartridges do not work directly on DS but you can use a emulator in GBA mode)
03:56:46  ≥third-hand information, but I was told the way that a GBA game runs on the DS is that the DS has two processors and the less powerful one is the same ISA as a GBA's, so it just underclocks it
03:57:00  in order to match the clock speed
03:57:51  Yes, there is ARM9 and ARM7; DS uses both but GBA uses only ARM7
03:58:01  zzo38: Sure. I think that the precise nature of how to do that, without a kernel like Linux, is not on-topic here? But maybe that's just the impression that I got.
03:58:16  Certainly, yes, having *those* sorts of carts for a GBA or DS will make them into much more useful devices.
03:58:21  topicality on this channel is kind-of weird
03:58:41  there are times where it was so persistently offtopic I didn't bother joining it
03:59:13  I'm not sure whether I wasn't an op at the time, or whether it was pointless trying to enforce my topicality desires on a channel that clearly didn't care about htem
03:59:36  but this probably isn't a great channel for discussing the details of how to bootload onto a GBA or DS, indeed
03:59:47  other places will have a lot more people who know about how to do it
04:00:06  And I think that there's enough devices in my house where I've attempted Linux that we have no shortage of on-topic fodder.
04:00:49  the other reason topicality is hard to define here is that esolangs and esoprogramming are hard to define
04:01:36  one of the things I like best about this channel is that you can ask weird/surprising programming-related questions here without anyone asking why you're trying to do what you're doing (because they can be confident that it's a bad idea but you're choosing to do it anyway)
04:01:56  It is *very* funny to me that I'm usually speedrunning on real hardware these days. I'm always at the bar and they have a no-ROMs rule even for the cabinets which are clearly running MAME. But they have Zelda and Metroid carts, so it's fine.
04:02:55  I've seen those discussions from the speedrunning-rules-setting side
04:03:08  the rules about emulators can be very complex, often allowing and disallowing specific versions of specific emulators
04:03:10  Yeah. To me, this is one of the nice channels with exarkun's rule: yes, you can assume that I did my research before asking my apparently-stupid question; it's harder than it sounds, I promise. Named after a #twisted maintainer who would /join #python with painfully-humbling questions.
04:03:52  There's also #techcrap, if anybody's interested in another one of those communities. I left years ago when it became obvious that anybody left of center wasn't welcome, but maybe it's improved since then.
04:04:10  this is partly based on some emulators giving an unfair advantage due to emulation inaccuracies, and partly based on cases where cheating would be too easy if certain emulators were allowed
04:06:24  Yeah. And there's a perennial discussion around alternative controllers. I *do* like that most of us, today, agree that disabled folks are allowed to use whatever controllers work for them. But other than that, the discussion's just...silly sometimes.
04:07:45  Like, one big topic today: should fighting-game-style "hitbox" controllers be allowed on SNES, particularly for hard digital platformers like Super Metroid? The obvious answer is "you look very silly with a big box in your lap" but the leaderboard will eventually have to decide because a top runner wants to use one.
04:08:02  most (but not all) speedrunning communities have converged on a "one button as seen by the game = one physical button on the controller" rule, in which you can bind as you like as long as it's a 1-to-1 mapping
04:08:14  but I'm not sure whether there's any actual basis for that rule or whether they're all just copying each other
04:08:43  it does handle the "using a weird controller because you're disabled" possibility well, at least
04:08:52  It's definitely copied. Some of it's physical, like the exception which forbids "broken D-pads", digital pads that can report more than one of the NEWS directions at once.
04:09:27  that's an old SDA rule
04:09:38  the reasoning is that it's unfair to force people to physically damage hardware to be able to compete
04:09:57  (most official controllers for the platforms they use are damaged by inputting two opposite directions on a D-pad at once)
04:24:38  pressing opposite arrow keys at once on PC is allowed because you can do that without damaging them
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06:06:03  [[Dsii]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177993 * Squidmanescape * (+3139) Yeah, I did this now.
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07:10:20  [[User talk:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177994&oldid=177979 * Widuruwana * (+134) reply to Aadenboy
07:37:37  ais523: the one button rule is used for some games where you have to mash one button very fast to gain some advantage. with the right technique, you can mash faster by alternating on two buttons, but of course it can also be a trap because if you overlap your physical button presses then you won't get extra presses in the game.
07:37:52  this is mostly for categories where turbo controllers also aren't allowed
07:41:54  this gets funnier when when you are playing a Game Boy game, because most players are already using the Super Game Boy 2 or one of the two other official hardware that let you run the game using a controller with four face buttons, and let you bind two physical buttons on one of the two Game Boy buttons, your choice which, so the rules have to allow that much double binding at least
07:42:16  well it's three official hardware now, because the Switch counts too
07:43:00  um, four total official hardware: Super Game Boy, Super Game Boy 2, Game Boy Player, and emulation no Switch
07:45:18  fortunately not all set of speedrun rules insist on the one button only thing
07:46:46  have I mentioned yet that I'm very disappointed in Metroid Dread because playing it benefits heavily from fast mashing the fire button, even in casual play, and, unlike for old games on old consoles, the devs don't have the excuse of ignorance or limited hardware
07:47:21  why would a modern game designer program a game like that, such that it encourages you to hurt your hands to play the game better?
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08:08:38  ais523: IIUC the RAM requirement was 4 megabyte in the Linux 2.4 and 2.6 era when I started to run linux, and 1 megabyte for some very old Linux 1 based distros, but of course many useful programs needed more than that much. Someone told me a tale how in the Linux 1 era he borrowed more RAM into his Linux desktop whenever he wanted to use the curses-based package manager, probably yast
08:12:22  if you're using that little RAM then most of it is occupied by the kernel itself
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09:22:19  Oh https://old.reddit.com/r/shapezio/comments/1rye6x5/logic_before_stackers_achieving_functional/ is a cute concept for logic in shapez 1: use left and right halfs of shapes to encode bits, rely on cutters to send them different paths, and rely on the alternating behavior of splitters for everything else. Fairly useless, but cute.
10:01:38  int-e: I've seen very inefficient logic computations with transport belts in Factorio, but I haven't realized you could do something like that in shapez too
10:02:12  I think the Factorio one needs priority splitters, so it doesn't easily transfer to shapez without shapez logic
10:02:37  the Factorio one encodes a bit by whether a belt is empty or has items flowing I think
10:04:24  you don't technically need splitters for that sort of belt manipulation, but the even more inefficient alternative involves inserters and T-merges, which of course also doesn't translate to shapez
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12:39:49  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177995&oldid=177977 * None1 * (+17) /* T */
12:41:28  [[Translator]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177996&oldid=177775 * None1 * (+84) 
12:48:26  [[User:None1]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177997&oldid=177636 * None1 * (+56) 
12:51:06  [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177998&oldid=177997 * None1 * (-46) Ah, forgot to delete this
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13:49:48  [[ABCstr]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177999&oldid=141014 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+433) Rectified the Hello, World!, program which lacked in its output the concluding ecphoneme (!), added a hyperlink to my interpreter implementation, and supplemented the Implemented page category tag.
14:49:47  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * RikoMamaBala *  uploaded "[[File:A blue-to-cyan gradient background going left to right.png]]"
14:54:19  [[User talk:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178001&oldid=177994 * Aadenboy * (+329) 
15:31:12  [[Talk:FOSMOL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178002&oldid=175104 * Aadenboy * (+383) 
15:31:31  [[Talk:FOSMOL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178003&oldid=178002 * Aadenboy * (+18) 
16:19:22  [[User:Rainwave]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178004 * Rainwave * (+234) Created page with "Hello, I'm Rainwave and I love minimalistic esolangs and Turing tarpits. There's satisfaction in learning how simple rules can unlock the same computational power as even the most powerful supercomputer.   I've created these esolangs:"
16:20:40  [[.dot-hyphen]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178005 * Rainwave * (+1326) Created page with "'''.dot-hyphen''' is an esoteric programming language created by [[User:Rainwave]] in [[:Category:2026|2026]]. The language came to be as a result of [[User:Rainwave]] toying with the fact that -(-x)=+x. The language also draws some inspiration from [[
16:22:13  [[.dot-hyphen]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178006&oldid=178005 * Rainwave * (+0) Uppercased the word "semantics"
16:41:04  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178007&oldid=177995 * Rainwave * (+18) Added the language .dot-hyphen
16:42:10  [[User:Rainwave]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178008&oldid=178004 * Rainwave * (+18) 
16:42:56  [[Dsii]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178009&oldid=177993 * Squidmanescape * (+94) /* "Truth-machine" */
16:53:21  [[Dsii]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178010&oldid=178009 * Squidmanescape * (+665) 
16:54:09  [[Dsii]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178011&oldid=178010 * Squidmanescape * (+0) /* Syntax */
16:54:53  [[Dsii]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178012&oldid=178011 * Squidmanescape * (+2) /* Syntax */
16:55:38  [[Dsii]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178013&oldid=178012 * Squidmanescape * (+46) /* Syntax */
16:56:43  [[.dot-hyphen]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178014&oldid=178006 * Aadenboy * (+22) cats + link + formatting
16:57:17  [[Dsii]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178015&oldid=178013 * Squidmanescape * (+5) /* Bad + Interpreter */
17:03:24  [[User:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178016&oldid=177903 * Aadenboy * (+0) /* anything else */ conway's game of line
17:07:37  [[EWaduzitdo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178017&oldid=145512 * Star651 * (-9) no longer stub
17:14:22  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Meh2 *  New user account
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19:48:06  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178018&oldid=177895 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+1) /* Phase 2 */ fix
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21:48:31  [[Esolang:Featured languages/Current]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178019&oldid=60213 * Aadenboy * (-27) link to article instead of category
21:48:47  [[Thue]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178020&oldid=170931 * Aadenboy * (+4) link
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2026-03-21:

00:46:09  Someone should make an operating system where the OS knows where lines begin and end and you can use some sort of syntax when referring to a file to select specific ranges of lines. Someone also should convince me to stop presenting historical ideas that would be considered esoteric today as "new" ideas as a bad form of humor.
01:01:49  Sgeo: surely you do this by making lines fixed length and then having a record-based file access API (e.g. CP/M's FCB stuff that more or less found its way into DOS)
01:03:51  https://try-mts.com/working-with-files/
01:04:13  AFK
01:06:36  Sgeo: cute
01:23:50  back
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02:15:32  https://bitsavers.org/pdf/univOfMichigan/mts/volumes/MTSVol01-TheMichiganTerminalSystem-Nov1991.pdf appendix C on page 154 describes how line files work
02:58:58  I've been playing more with MUSIC/SP than with MTS at the moment >.>
03:14:04  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178021&oldid=177980 * Meh2 * (+148) /* Introductions */
03:14:36  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178022&oldid=178021 * Meh2 * (-1) /* Introductions */
03:15:28  My idea of the operating system does not have any "plain text" files; it uses a binary structured data format (a bit like DER, but different). So, it is not made of "lines" either.
03:18:19  [[User:StavWasPlayZ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178023 * Meh2 * (+52) Created page with "Where's the cursed esolang?   Made by: [[User:Meh2]]"
03:33:19  [[User:Meh2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178024 * Meh2 * (+28) Created page with "Meh.  ==Esolangs:== Not yet!"
04:02:46  zzo38: how does it load plain-text files that other operating systems produced?
04:05:14  They can still be loaded as raw files, or as converted files, if using a program (not necessarily the same program that the file is being used with) that can read the disk of that other operating system (such programs will likely be included for compatibility, at least for such things as CDs and DVDs)
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04:31:54  (One of the forks is used for if programs (usually emulated programs rather than native programs) expect the file to contain raw data, then it can use that one; however, a proxy capability (or a function in a program) might be used to automatically convert in either direction if needed. This might result in a more limited functionality, such as a more restricted character set.)
04:39:48  (Something similar would be true of directories; you can have a table of links with whatever extra data is appropriate for the file system being converted from. However, many things would be converted to the port of the program for this system instead which would use a different format instead, so that such a thing would be mostly (although not entirely) unnecessary.)
04:40:29  (One of my intentions is to avoid needing to be limited due to what other existing systems do)
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05:31:57  Sgeo: that sounds like something you should do in user-space rather than in an operating system
05:32:08  I mean the lines thing
05:32:43  b_jonas, I guess it was before everyone converged on the boring but useful idea of files just being a bunch of bytes
05:33:40  On IBM mainframe OSes, you tend to need to define whether a dataset (their term for file) is a bunch of fixed length records or variable length records
05:35:50  when I first learned programming, record-based files were common enough that most practical programming languages had syntax to access them
05:35:58  but I think they've pretty much been abandoned by this point
05:37:03  (Continuing what I mentioned, probably would be better to use separate programs to convert the file and then work with it, rather than doing it "live"; however, emulation might be used if you are modifying files for use with other systems (such as DOS or uxn))
05:37:51  fwiw I think it's usually correct for databases to use a record-oriented file internally, even if they're storing it on a byte-oriented filesystem
05:38:13  ais523: I think BASIC does (although you have to specify the record size in your program, since the operating system doesn't know the record size); as far as I know, I have not used other programming languages that do
05:47:09  hmm, C has an API that's capable of expressing reads and writes of record-based files (especially with fread and fwrite) but I don't know whether or not that was intentional
05:47:42  ais523: ins't that because record-based files made sense for magnetic casette tape drives?
05:47:52  b_jonas: possibly
05:48:59  I never actually used a computer with a tape drive
05:49:16  I used a few that were designed for tape drives but they'd been connected to 5¼" floppy drives instead
05:50:08  I mean disks have fixed-size sectors preallocated during formatting, which makes it easy to not overwrite other sectors on the same track, but a tape doesn't have lots of tracks that it can seek to, so at least some tape drives write and read variable-length blocks
05:50:28  Something I was working recently was to see how I would make a programming language to be better than C, and I suppose it also has a way to work with record-based files even though that feature was not really intended for that use; the "stream" type is a parameterized type so is usually "stream(u8)" but you could specify a different type than "u8" such as "u8[128]"
05:51:28  zzo38: hmm, interesting; I came to a similar conclusion but I was thinking about memory allocators rather than file formats
05:52:32  the idea of a "typed file" is probably useful even if you aren't storing records, because if the type system is sufficiently powerful, it would mean that you wouldn't have to reverify the file contents (as long as you trusted the file system to not corrupt it)
05:53:01  although you would still need to ensure that it was a valid value of its type if you were receiving one as a stream of bytes from an untrusted source, e.g. over the Internet
05:58:08  It's because the structure isn't local to the CPU. When we parse a file, we're creating a local structure in the CPU registers which summarizes the file contents.
05:59:12  RAM isn't local either, but we trust memory controllers. Quirk of history, I think.
06:01:31  Come to think of it, in the 1990s we trusted disks a lot more. Programs would mmap their save files from disk, headers and all.
06:05:03  yep
06:05:09  NetHack still does that I think
06:06:26  I think one reason programs moved away from that is for security against files downloaded from elsewhere that purported to have been created by the program but actually weren't, and another is portability (as programs that are just mmapping their data structures may have those structures defined differently on different platforms)
06:06:48  and nowadays, some languages (like Rust) by default allow the compiler to change the memory layout of a structure with every complie
06:07:04  (you can request a stable layout but it isn't the default)
06:07:34  normally this is just used to provide optimisation opportunities but some people have experimented with doing something ASLRish with it
06:08:06  interestingly, executables are still loaded by mmap – I think that's because they're inherently nonportable to different architectures and already unsafe to run if you don't trust them
06:08:47  (native executables, that is)
06:10:25  Yeah, I was going to say something about how the safety of mmap boils down to treating your loader like an interpreter for the resulting memory layout.
06:10:30  yeah, programs like msword used to just read and write its internal structures into a file and trust them at first, which made sense when people weren't interchanging files as untrusted between computers much, but then later these had to be changed to actually parse and verify those files and covert them to the currently used internal formats. 
06:11:21  well, it also caused the problem that Word struggled to read files from its own past versions
06:14:25  these days we have so much CPU power that I generally want to verify everything I can, even if it's from a trusted source, because this can uncover bugs in the program where I had thought that an assumption was correct but it's not
06:15:30  not verifying data is like a micro-optimization that you should do only when the verifying would be an actual bottleneck
06:16:34  this is how my programming style works
06:17:55  I'm generally in favour of compile-time proofs of that – we have enough CPU power to verify them – so a runtime verification would only be useful to guard against bugs in the compiler
06:18:28  but of course, a compiler can't verify that the disk hasn't been tampered with (perhaps accidentally, e.g. due to power failure)
06:19:16  that works if you aren't linking your program with other compilation units written by your incompetent co-workers that cause undefined behavior eg. by indexing out of arrays too often
06:20:08  guarding against UB doesn't really make sense, UB can do anything after all (including making your guards irrelevant)
06:20:23  yes, it can
06:20:29  unless you're doing it at a lower level than the level the compiler works at
06:21:02  so the compiler may be able to optimize away some of my checks
06:22:02  yes, the correct solution is to not link to those co-workers' code until they get competent
06:22:19  or use a language which would prevent them doing that sort of thig
06:22:21  * thing
06:23:02  that said, I can't think of many practical languages which are unable to have UB if you try hard enough
06:23:09  there are a number of UB-less esolangs, at least
06:23:32  to be fair this problem was over 12 years ago, we were all young then, me and my coworkers
06:23:48  and this was in C++ 
06:25:04  b_jonas: IIRC guarding against bad offsets in slices and other substructures was one of the original items in the Moore's Dividend paper.
06:25:13  they did get more competent later
06:28:45  [[User talk:StavWasPlayZ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178025 * PkmnQ * (+198) Created page with "Where's the cursed esolang? [[User:Meh2]] ([[User talk:Meh2|talk]]) 03:18, 21 March 2026 :Probably [[Codesh_()]] ~~~~"
06:29:38  [[User:StavWasPlayZ]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178026&oldid=178023 * PkmnQ * (-52) Blanked the page
06:47:29  Oh, I have a convenient FORTRAN II compiler open right now, what UB-esque shenanigans should I try?
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06:52:56  Actually not sure if it's II
06:53:19  I'll just say 1401 FORTRAN
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07:24:21  [[Special:Log/delete]] delete  * Ais523 *  deleted "[[User:StavWasPlayZ]]": not a user page, and not created by the relevant user
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08:37:23  [[User:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178027&oldid=177981 * Widuruwana * (+269) Fixed the width issue
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12:32:25  [[Prints the name of this language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178028 * None1 * (+673) New funny esolang!
12:36:28  [[Prints the name of this language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178029&oldid=178028 * 47 * (-6) None, you failed mirably :sob:
12:37:55  [[Prints the name of this language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178030&oldid=178029 * 47 * (-1) /* =Self-interpreter that's not a quine */  ok gen forgot about this unnesesary "="
12:41:36  [[User talk:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178031&oldid=178001 * Widuruwana * (+109) reply
12:42:31  [[Prints the name of this language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178032&oldid=178030 * PkmnQ * (+2) /* Self-interpreter that's not a quine */ Level 2 -> 3
12:52:04  [[Prints the name of this language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178033&oldid=178032 * None1 * (+13) 
12:55:56  [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178034&oldid=177670 * None1 * (+39) /* Example-based languages */
12:57:50  [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178035&oldid=177998 * None1 * (+57) /* My Esolangs */
12:58:07  [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178036&oldid=178035 * None1 * (+1) /* My Esolangs */
13:00:37  [[Grass]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178037&oldid=173164 * Tpaefawzen * (-55) /* Examples */ +1
13:02:04  [[Grass]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178038&oldid=178037 * Tpaefawzen * (-298) /* Examples */ +1
13:14:57  [[Grass]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178039&oldid=178038 * Tpaefawzen * (+86) /* Examples */ +1
13:21:32  [[Grass]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178040&oldid=178039 * Tpaefawzen * (-77) /* Examples */ +1
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16:00:11  [[Staccato]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178041 * PrySigneToFry * (+3744) Created page with "Note: This article introduces a programming language, not a performance technique.  Staccato is a programming language designed by PSTF. It is a concise, stack-based language where every operation is a single character (or short literal) to minimize code length. 
16:02:11  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178042&oldid=178007 * PrySigneToFry * (+15) 
16:54:35  [[User talk:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178043&oldid=178031 * Aadenboy * (+319) 
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17:31:12  [[Prints the name of this language]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178044&oldid=178033 * Dragoneater67 * (+417) /* Interpreter */ add more interpreters
17:32:14  [[Prints the name of this language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178045&oldid=178044 * Dragoneater67 * (+8) /* Interpreters */
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17:49:36  [[Prints the name of this language]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178046&oldid=178045 * Aadenboy * (+76) 
17:50:11  I can't seem to reach esolang logs
17:50:23  n/m
17:50:50  looks slow, I assume the usual (crawlers)
17:51:19  I don't think 1401 FORTRAN allows... subroutines or functions written in FORTRAN. It has functions but they have to be written in Autocoder (the term for assembly on 1401)
17:57:30  "The function name can be comprised of from 4 to 7 alphameric characters (not special characters). The first character must be alphabetic, and the last character must be the letter F. The first character must be X if and only if the value of the function is to be fixed point."
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19:51:59  [[Gora]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178047&oldid=166885 * Ractangle * (-37) 
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20:11:18  The manual and existing 1401 Fortran copies don't match :(
20:35:15  [[User talk:Widuruwana/MainPageModernization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178048&oldid=178043 * Ais523 * (+836) feedback
21:36:57  Is there the possibility in TLS for a client to send multiple certificate chains to the server (and if not, can a TLS extension be made to support such a thing)? This might be useful with services that allow multiple people to set up things that require authentication, such as IRC channels (and possibly also cloaks) on a IRC server.
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23:30:54  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Gozzie *  New user account
23:36:12  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178049&oldid=178022 * Gozzie * (+108) /* Introductions */

2026-03-22:

02:06:51 -!- ajal has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement).
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04:58:01  [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178050&oldid=177420 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (-1681) 
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09:19:07  [[Text]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178051&oldid=177140 * PrySigneToFry * (+89) 
10:08:00  [[DVector]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178052&oldid=159716 * None1 * (+14) /* See also */
11:16:45  [[Staccato]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178053&oldid=178041 * PrySigneToFry * (-2) 
11:17:22  [[Vector]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178054&oldid=158407 * None1 * (+14) /* See also */
11:45:50  [[ ~\\ ^\]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178055 * Meh2 * (+429) My first language
11:48:49  [[ ~\\ ^\]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178056&oldid=178055 * Meh2 * (+26) 
11:50:27  [[User:Meh2]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178057&oldid=178024 * Meh2 * (+62) /* Esolangs: */
11:54:55  [[ ~\\ ^\]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178058&oldid=178056 * Meh2 * (+23) 
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12:18:48  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Meh2 *  uploaded "[[File:Meh. Logo.png]]"
12:19:37  [[User:Meh2]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178060&oldid=178057 * Meh2 * (+55) 
12:23:58  [[ ~\\ ^\]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178061&oldid=178058 * Meh2 * (+2) 
12:25:53  [[ ~\\ ^\]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178062&oldid=178061 * Meh2 * (+18) 
12:39:03  [[User talk:Yoyolin0409]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178063&oldid=177236 * PrySigneToFry * (+60) 
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12:45:24  [[User talk:Meh2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178064 * Meh2 * (+80) Created page with "What?  --~~~~"
12:46:14  [[User:Meh2]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178065&oldid=178060 * Meh2 * (+1) 
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15:20:27  [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178066 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1475) Created page with "{{WIP}} '''Fak''' is an [[Esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Yayimhere]], which takes ina set of axioms, an ordered list of functions, and an ordered list of atoms, and returns a (potentially) infinite set of atoms, and axioms for ea
16:46:11 -!- Sgeo has joined.
16:55:36  [[User:Yayimhere]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178067&oldid=176863 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1) /* things about me */
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18:13:04  [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178068 * Meh2 * (+707) Created page with " is a programming language with 2 commands created by [[User:Meh2]].  ==Commands== {| class="wikitable sortable" {| class="wikitable" |+ Caption text |- ! Command !! Description  |- | + || Increment  |- | F || Print the cell's number as ASCII and Set cell's number to 0 |} |}  ==Ex
18:19:37  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178069&oldid=178068 * Meh2 * (-5) 
18:20:28  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178070&oldid=178069 * Meh2 * (+0) 
18:35:08  [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178071&oldid=178066 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1980) /* Syntax */
18:35:20  [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178072&oldid=178071 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-1) 
18:59:58  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Code_(computer_language)
19:16:19  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * CoolJarreb99 *  New user account
19:30:15  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178073&oldid=178049 * CoolJarreb99 * (+146) my introduction
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2026-03-23:

02:04:49 -!- ais523 has joined.
02:46:48  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178074&oldid=178070 * Meh2 * (-1) 
02:47:48  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178075&oldid=178074 * Meh2 * (+3) /* Meh. */
02:51:51  [[User:Meh2]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178076&oldid=178065 * Meh2 * (+62) /* Welcome! */
02:57:53  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178077&oldid=178073 * Meh2 * (-66) 
03:07:11  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178078&oldid=178075 * Meh2 * (+53) 
03:15:09  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178079&oldid=178078 * Meh2 * (+21) 
03:22:14  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178080&oldid=177871 * BODOKE2801e * (-159) /* Syntax */ thet is legacy
04:09:07  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178081&oldid=178079 * Meh2 * (+39) 
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09:50:11  [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178082&oldid=178072 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+155) /* Semantics */
09:51:02  [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178083&oldid=178082 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+48) /* Examples */
09:51:40  [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178084&oldid=178083 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-1) /* Syntax */
09:51:46  [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178085&oldid=178084 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+0) /* Examples */
09:53:15  [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178086&oldid=178085 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-8) /* Syntax */
09:53:27  [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178087&oldid=178086 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+0) /* Syntax */
09:59:25  [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178088&oldid=178087 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+0) 
10:21:44  [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178089&oldid=178088 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+2) /* Examples */
10:24:41  [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178090&oldid=178089 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+292) /* Semantics */
10:27:23  [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178091&oldid=178090 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+141) /* Semantics */
10:30:11  [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178092&oldid=178091 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+51) /* Examples */
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10:33:27  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Yayimhere2(school) *  moved [[User:Yayimhere/Fak]] to [[Fak]]
10:33:41  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178095&oldid=178093 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-8) 
10:34:13  [[User:Yayimhere]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178096&oldid=178067 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+30) 
10:37:37  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178097&oldid=178095 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+168) /* Examples */
10:46:57  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178098&oldid=178097 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+36) /* Semantics */
10:47:17  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178099&oldid=178098 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+0) /* Semantics */
10:47:41  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178100&oldid=178099 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-4) /* Syntax */
10:47:50  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178101&oldid=178100 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-2) /* Examples */
10:49:28  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178102&oldid=178101 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-6) 
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10:51:34  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178103&oldid=178102 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+6) 
11:09:13  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178104&oldid=178103 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1) /* Examples */
11:10:49  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178105&oldid=178104 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-50) /* Examples */
11:38:56  [[User:CoolJarreb99]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178106 * CoolJarreb99 * (+54) Created page with "Hi, I'm CoolJarreb99. I like esolangs. End of sentence"
11:45:42  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178107&oldid=177877 * None1 * (+226) /* Dialects created in 2026 */
12:43:31  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178108&oldid=178018 * Dragoneater67 * (-97) /* XKCD Random Number */
12:45:44  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178109&oldid=178108 * Dragoneater67 * (-169) 
12:46:05  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178110&oldid=178109 * Dragoneater67 * (+0) /* Overview */ fix
14:25:24  [[XKCD Random Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178111&oldid=177961 * Dragoneater67 * (+4) /*  */
14:28:43  [[Talk:German]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178112&oldid=40539 * CoolJarreb99 * (+210) 
14:29:26  [[Talk:German]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178113&oldid=178112 * CoolJarreb99 * (+49) 
15:17:03  [[Place]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178114&oldid=174610 * Qawtykit * (+18) 
15:33:47  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178115&oldid=178110 * Dragoneater67 * (+38) /* Examples */
15:33:56  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178116&oldid=178115 * Dragoneater67 * (+13) /* Infinite loop */
15:41:21  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178117&oldid=178116 * Dragoneater67 * (+17) 
15:42:38  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178118&oldid=178117 * Dragoneater67 * (-37) /* Examples */ it has a side effect of taking input :(
16:10:13  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178119&oldid=178105 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+52) /* Examples */
16:27:38  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178120&oldid=178119 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+100) /* Semantics */
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17:07:56  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178121&oldid=178120 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+0) /* Semantics */
17:18:45  [[Chair]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178122 * CoolJarreb99 * (+11851) Created page with "'''Chair''' is a [[joke language list|joke language]] created by CoolJarreb99, where every variable is a chair, and only one variable can be used at a time, variables have to be deconstructed and reconstructed to be read or modified, etc.  {{infobox proglang |name=C
17:20:18  [[Chair]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178123&oldid=178122 * CoolJarreb99 * (+0) minor spelling mistake
17:24:43  [[User:CoolJarreb99]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178124&oldid=178106 * CoolJarreb99 * (+71) added my chair
17:32:25  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178125&oldid=178121 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+89) /* Syntax */
17:34:47  [[Fak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178126&oldid=178125 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-15) /* Examples */
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18:49:15  [[Chair]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178127&oldid=178123 * CoolJarreb99 * (+18) formularte
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20:42:05  b_jonas: Maybe latency isn't *totally* irrelevant in shapez 2... it's worthwhile to have a small, low throughput MAM for early levels. My 12 belt crystal MAM takes ~7.5 minutes to switch shapes. And quite a bit of that is pure travel time.
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21:12:31  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178128&oldid=178107 * LEOMOK * (+531) 
21:15:35  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178129&oldid=178080 * BODOKE2801e * (+1) /* Templates */
21:23:17  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178130&oldid=178129 * BODOKE2801e * (+47) /* Templates */
21:30:49  [[ZecZec]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178131&oldid=178130 * BODOKE2801e * (+3) /* Syntax */
21:34:22  [[ZecZec]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178132&oldid=178131 * BODOKE2801e * (-2) /* Syntax */
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2026-03-24:

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01:13:38  [[User:PkmnQ/qoob derivatives]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178133&oldid=163608 * PkmnQ * (+502) 
01:24:43  [[User:Tommyaweosme/my 2026 video storage format]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178134 * Tommyaweosme * (+1550) Created page with "every value referred to as a "value" will come in the form of a byte representing how many bytes after it represent the value you want, starting at index zero  the number "69784", for example, would be 02069784 (2, convert to 
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03:23:48  [[TritBitJump]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178135 * Squidmanescape * (+2619) Watch this crash and burn.
03:26:13  [[TritBitJump]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178136&oldid=178135 * Squidmanescape * (+91) /* Basics */
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04:36:44  [[Gur yvsr]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178137&oldid=172506 * Placeholding * (+0) 
04:45:28  [[Gur yvsr]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178138&oldid=178137 * Placeholding * (+101) 
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06:24:44  [[Chair]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178139&oldid=178127 * CoolJarreb99 * (-28) i read on joke esolangs
06:26:25  [[Chair]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178140&oldid=178139 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+9) 
06:27:37  [[Chair]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178141&oldid=178140 * CoolJarreb99 * (-21) 
06:29:22  [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178142&oldid=178042 * CoolJarreb99 * (+12) /* C */
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06:31:20  [[Chair]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178143&oldid=178141 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+10) /* Hello World */
06:32:48  [[Chair]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178144&oldid=178143 * Dragoneater67mobile * (-1) is this what you meant?
06:57:19  [[Talk:Black Pentagon]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178145 * CoolJarreb99 * (+236) Created page with "This is genuinely what got me into esolangs, best language Ive ever seen. I think its now my mission to write an interpreter for this. ~~~~"
07:03:45  [[TritBitJump]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178146&oldid=178136 * Squidmanescape * (+760) 
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08:02:35  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * KamilMalicki *  New user account
08:08:37  [[Amber]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178147&oldid=176830 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+22) /* Matches */
08:09:22  [[Amber]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178148&oldid=178147 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-22) /* Matches */
08:25:16  [[Amber]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178149&oldid=178148 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-1) /* Types */
08:33:11  [[Amber]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178150&oldid=178149 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+69) /* Types */
08:39:31  [[Amber]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178151&oldid=178150 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+147) /* Types */
08:40:01  [[Amber]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178152&oldid=178151 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+3) /* Builtins */
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09:53:58  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178153&oldid=178118 * Dragoneater67 * (+35) better wording
10:21:38  [[Chair]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178154&oldid=178144 * CoolJarreb99 * (+15) phrasing
10:32:54  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178155&oldid=178153 * Dragoneater67 * (+0) 
10:34:34  [[Chair]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178156&oldid=178154 * CoolJarreb99 * (-167) changed my mind
11:13:43  [[User talk:Yoyolin0409]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178157&oldid=178063 * Yoyolin0409 * (+10) /*  */
11:15:04  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178158&oldid=177795 * Yoyolin0409 * (-35) /* By Qazwsxplm */
11:16:27  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178159&oldid=178158 * Yoyolin0409 * (+42) /* math */
11:16:43  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178160&oldid=178159 * Yoyolin0409 * (+0) /* math */
11:21:21  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178161&oldid=178160 * Yoyolin0409 * (+98) /* By Qazwsxplm */
11:21:55  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178162&oldid=178161 * Yoyolin0409 * (+0) /* By Qazwsxplm */
11:23:47  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178163&oldid=178162 * Yoyolin0409 * (+51) /* misc */
11:24:33  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178164&oldid=178163 * Yoyolin0409 * (+9) /* misc */
11:25:52  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178165&oldid=178164 * Yoyolin0409 * (+106) /* Syntax */
11:26:32  [[Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178166&oldid=178165 * Yoyolin0409 * (+5) /* CT interpreter */
11:28:29  [[User:Dragoneater67]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178167&oldid=177899 * Dragoneater67 * (+295) 
11:28:52  [[User:Dragoneater67]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178168&oldid=178167 * Dragoneater67 * (+17) /* owange :3c */
11:31:05  [[Guess]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178169&oldid=160096 * Yoyolin0409 * (+94) /* Programs */
11:31:21  [[User:Dragoneater67]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178170&oldid=178168 * Dragoneater67 * (+75) 
11:36:39  [[User guessed]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178171&oldid=173583 * Yoyolin0409 * (+98) /* Commands */
11:39:17  [[User guessed]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178172&oldid=178171 * Yoyolin0409 * (+122) /* Commands */
11:41:00  [[User guessed]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178173&oldid=178172 * Yoyolin0409 * (+71) /* Commands */
11:41:12  [[User guessed]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178174&oldid=178173 * Yoyolin0409 * (+0) /* Commands */
11:41:44  [[User guessed]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178175&oldid=178174 * Yoyolin0409 * (+43) /* Examples */
11:42:16  [[User guessed]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178176&oldid=178175 * Yoyolin0409 * (+27) /* nop */
11:42:57  [[User guessed]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178177&oldid=178176 * Yoyolin0409 * (+24) 
11:48:14  [[Guess]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178178&oldid=178169 * Yoyolin0409 * (+1) /* = Program 10: 99 bottles of beer (Using No as 0) (asked for by User:Yoyolin0409) */
11:51:31  [[User talk:User:Main page/w/wiki/User:NotPrySigneToFry/what]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178179&oldid=175437 * Yoyolin0409 * (+86) /* Commands */
11:58:38  [[CollaborativePL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178180&oldid=167442 * Yoyolin0409 * (+110) 
11:58:47  [[CollaborativePL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178181&oldid=178180 * Yoyolin0409 * (+1) 
12:12:06  [[Guesslang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178182 * Yoyolin0409 * (+888) Created page with "Inspired by [[Guess]]'s other Esolang, by [[User:Yoyolin0409]] ==Rule== Here are a few examples to help you guess the usage and syntax of everything ==Example== ===[[Hello, world!]]===  io:      nil      "Hello, world!" ==Guess Area== Guess Example: ===[[User:YourU
12:12:18  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178183&oldid=178182 * Yoyolin0409 * (+0) /* Reply */
12:18:32  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178184&oldid=178183 * Yoyolin0409 * (+397) /* Example */
12:18:42  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178185&oldid=178184 * Yoyolin0409 * (+1) /* 99 bottles of beer */
12:21:10  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178186&oldid=178185 * Yoyolin0409 * (-19) /* 99 bottles of beer */
12:21:46  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178187&oldid=178186 * Yoyolin0409 * (+42) /* Reply */
12:22:00  [[CollaborativePL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178188&oldid=178181 * Dragoneater67 * (-61) removed forgery
12:22:08  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178189&oldid=178187 * Yoyolin0409 * (-7) /* Reply */
12:22:48  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178190&oldid=178189 * Yoyolin0409 * (+25) 
12:23:30  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178191&oldid=178190 * Yoyolin0409 * (-20) /* 99 bottles of beer */
12:24:16  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178192&oldid=178191 * Yoyolin0409 * (+105) /* Rule */
12:26:51  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178193&oldid=178192 * Yoyolin0409 * (+62) /* Example */
12:27:00  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178194&oldid=178193 * Dragoneater67 * (+322) /* Guess Area */
12:32:42  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178195&oldid=178194 * Yoyolin0409 * (+84) /* Example */
12:34:24  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178196&oldid=178195 * Yoyolin0409 * (+68) /* Example */
12:37:36  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178197&oldid=178196 * Yoyolin0409 * (-1) /* Factorials */
12:38:55  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178198&oldid=178197 * Yoyolin0409 * (+52) /* User:Dragoneater67 */
12:39:47  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178199&oldid=178198 * Yoyolin0409 * (+19) /* User:Dragoneater67 */
12:40:04  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178200&oldid=178199 * Yoyolin0409 * (+2) /* Reply */
12:40:42  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178201&oldid=178200 * Yoyolin0409 * (-8) /* User:Dragoneater67 */
12:40:57  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178202&oldid=178201 * Yoyolin0409 * (+11) /* Reply */
12:47:22  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178203&oldid=178202 * Dragoneater67 * (+281) /* User:Dragoneater67 */
12:55:26  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178204&oldid=178203 * Yoyolin0409 * (-7) 
12:56:05  [[User guessed]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178205&oldid=178177 * Dragoneater67 * (+30) /* Examples */
13:07:46  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178206&oldid=178204 * Yoyolin0409 * (+163) /* Example */
13:09:07  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178207&oldid=178206 * Yoyolin0409 * (+20) /* Fibonacci sequence */
13:09:55  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178208&oldid=178207 * Yoyolin0409 * (+12) /* Quine */
13:11:56  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178209&oldid=178208 * Yoyolin0409 * (+10) /* Sieve of Eratosthenes */
13:14:56  [[Befreege]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178210&oldid=167641 * Yoyolin0409 * (+119) /* Addition by PSTF */
13:16:55  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178211&oldid=178209 * Yoyolin0409 * (+11) /* Example */
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13:17:29  [[Guesslang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178212&oldid=178211 * Yoyolin0409 * (+13) /* Reply */
13:19:16  [[Befreege]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178213&oldid=178210 * Dragoneater67 * (+207) /* Addition by PSTF */
13:19:53  [[User talk:Dragoneater67]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178214&oldid=176704 * Yoyolin0409 * (+116) 
13:20:31  [[User talk:Dragoneater67]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178215&oldid=178214 * Yoyolin0409 * (-11) /* Reply about Guesslang */
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13:46:01  [[User guessed]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178216&oldid=178205 * PrySigneToFry * (+48) 
13:48:25  [[CollaborativePL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178217&oldid=178188 * PrySigneToFry * (+283) 
13:50:34  [[User guessed]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178218&oldid=178216 * PrySigneToFry * (+38) 
14:04:36  [[Final Word Of The Day]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178219&oldid=176924 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-41) /* Properties */
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15:13:20  [[User:Yayimhere/Cyclic quine lang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178220 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+158) Created page with " program: f([x,,d])  output: [x+d,,x]  program: f([x,,y])  output: [x-1,,y]  program: f([y,,y])  output: [x,,d] f is the evaluation function"
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15:23:40  [[User:Yayimhere/Cyclic quine lang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178221&oldid=178220 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+154) 
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16:01:55  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178222&oldid=178142 * EsolangerII * (+17) /* T */
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16:26:40  [[ToFunction]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178223 * EsolangerII * (+623) Created page with "ToFunction is a programming language that uses only two commands and only uses a string variable type by [[EsolangerII]]  ==Syntax== There are only two syntax in ToFunction.  ===Function=== It starts with a "define". and needed a function.  define x => x  The Firs
16:30:16  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178224&oldid=178222 * EsolangerII * (+0) /* T */
16:35:52  [[User:EsolangerII]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178225&oldid=177631 * EsolangerII * (+75) 
16:36:50  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178226&oldid=178223 * EsolangerII * (+5) 
16:38:17  [[User:EsolangerII]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178227&oldid=178225 * EsolangerII * (+48) 
16:40:55  [[One Command Programming Language(OCPL)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178228&oldid=177635 * EsolangerII * (+11) 
16:43:20  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178229&oldid=178226 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+9) pretty much fully underspecified. {stub}
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16:46:09  [[User:EsolangerII]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178230&oldid=178227 * EsolangerII * (+91) 
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17:04:16  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178231&oldid=178229 * EsolangerII * (+580) 
17:09:57  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178232&oldid=178231 * EsolangerII * (+55) 
17:11:54  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178233&oldid=178232 * EsolangerII * (+64) 
17:23:24  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178234&oldid=178233 * EsolangerII * (+88) 
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17:29:57  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178235&oldid=178234 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+9) its still very not specified
17:30:05  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178236&oldid=178235 * EsolangerII * (+278) 
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17:38:46  [[User talk:Yayimhere2(school)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178237&oldid=172378 * EsolangerII * (+132) 
17:39:25  [[User talk:Yayimhere2(school)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178238&oldid=178237 * EsolangerII * (+20) 
17:39:36  [[User talk:Yayimhere2(school)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178239&oldid=178238 * EsolangerII * (+1) 
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17:42:29  [[User talk:Yayimhere2(school)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178240&oldid=178239 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+144) 
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17:43:16  [[User talk:Yayimhere2(school)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178241&oldid=178240 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-3666) Replaced content with "{{#REDIRECT: [[User talk:Yayimhere]]}}"
17:43:59  [[User talk:Yayimhere2(school)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178242&oldid=178241 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-5) Redirected page to [[User talk:Yayimhere]]
17:44:11  [[User talk:Yayimhere]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178243&oldid=176206 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+3706) 
17:44:29  [[User talk:Yayimhere]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178244&oldid=178243 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1) /* i always see you in the school account */
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17:44:37  [[ToFunction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178245&oldid=178236 * EsolangerII * (+19) 
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17:47:39  [[ToFunction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178246&oldid=178245 * EsolangerII * (+24) 
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17:52:15  [[User talk:EsolangerII]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178247&oldid=177633 * EsolangerII * (+78) 
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18:45:14  [[User:Squidmanescape]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178248&oldid=139531 * Squidmanescape * (+198) /* My Languages */
18:50:43  [[User:EsolangerII]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178249&oldid=178230 * EsolangerII * (+33) 
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19:20:47  hello
19:33:16  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178250&oldid=178246 * EsolangerII * (+1913) Fixed mistake + new syntax to break infinite loop
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19:53:20  [[CollaborativePL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178251&oldid=178217 * LEOMOK * (+928) 
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20:01:11  [[ToFunction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178252&oldid=178250 * EsolangerII * (+1) /* addition */
20:01:25  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178253&oldid=178252 * EsolangerII * (+1) /* multiplication */
20:08:07  [[ToFunction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178254&oldid=178253 * EsolangerII * (+0) /* multiplication */
20:13:27  [[ToFunction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178255&oldid=178254 * EsolangerII * (+32) /* addition */
20:18:26  [[ToFunction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178256&oldid=178255 * EsolangerII * (+1) /* multiplication */  Fixed minor bugs
20:19:04  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178257&oldid=178256 * EsolangerII * (+0) /* multiplication */
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20:26:01  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178258&oldid=178257 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-101) /* Function */
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20:55:29  [[ToFunction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178259&oldid=178258 * EsolangerII * (-47) 
20:57:05  [[User:EsolangerII]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178260&oldid=178249 * EsolangerII * (+4) 
21:28:03  [[Bruzzet]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178261&oldid=171200 * DanielE * (+847) 
21:32:51  [[Bruzzet]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178262&oldid=178261 * DanielE * (+88) 
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2026-03-25:

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03:33:03  [[@ complete]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178263&oldid=173002 * Tux1 * (+252) why the fuck did you do that
04:18:23  [[User:Corbin/Spring cleaning]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178264 * Corbin * (+1088) Created page with "I'd like to make the following recommendations.  * Delete [[language list]]. Remove mentions of it from [[esolang:policy]], [[esolang:help]], and any other pages that recommend it. * Delete [[@ complete]], [[Aweosme-complete]], [[C-complete]], [[Conce
04:18:58  ^^^ I am once again politely asking that many junk pages, as well as [[language list]], be deleted.
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04:47:27  [[@ complete]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178265&oldid=178263 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-252) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/178263|178263]] by [[Special:Contributions/Tux1|Tux1]] ([[User talk:Tux1|talk]]) I deleted it because its not a very good concept. note that I am the one who made the original article.
04:49:31  [[User talk:Corbin/Spring cleaning]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178266 * Blashyrkh * (+193) Created page with "+1. I'd ban constant languages too, as well as majority of joke languages. But probably I'm too radical. --~~~~"
04:51:36  [[User talk:Corbin/Spring cleaning]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178267&oldid=178266 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+247) 
05:23:57  [[User talk:Corbin/Spring cleaning]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178268&oldid=178267 * Somefan * (+412) blank pages, too
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06:36:44  [[Shape-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178269&oldid=135033 * Ractangle * (-143) 
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07:02:46  [[User talk:Corbin/Spring cleaning]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178270&oldid=178268 * Dragoneater67 * (+342) 
07:16:05  [[User:Dragoneater67/issue]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178271&oldid=176049 * Dragoneater67 * (-288) Replaced content with "{{Delete|useless}}"
07:16:35  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178272&oldid=176012 * Dragoneater67 * (-2019) Replaced content with "{{Delete|dead}}"
07:17:03  [[User:Dragoneater67]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178273&oldid=178170 * Dragoneater67 * (-71) /* but really... */
07:22:28  [[User talk:Corbin/Spring cleaning]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178274&oldid=178270 * Dragoneater67 * (+339) 
07:23:05  [[User talk:Corbin/Spring cleaning]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178275&oldid=178274 * Dragoneater67 * (+1) 
07:31:56  [[User:Dragoneater67/*$@(^$)! solver]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178276&oldid=176376 * Dragoneater67 * (-2081) Replaced content with "{{Delete}}"
07:32:17  [[User:Dragoneater67/*$(^$)! solver]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178277&oldid=176377 * Dragoneater67 * (-38) Removed redirect to [[User:Dragoneater67/*$@(^$)! solver]]
07:32:28  [[User:Dragoneater67/monobook.js(deleteme)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178278&oldid=173898 * Dragoneater67 * (-17) 
07:32:40  [[User:Dragoneater67/monobook.js]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178279&oldid=176364 * Dragoneater67 * (+10) 
07:36:50  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178280&oldid=177296 * Dragoneater67 * (-835) Replaced content with "{{Delete|dead}}"
07:37:04  [[User:Dragoneater67]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178281&oldid=178273 * Dragoneater67 * (-70) 
08:28:47  [[User talk:Yayimhere]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178282&oldid=178244 * Dragoneater67 * (+345) /* Bring to another appears twice on your list! */ new section
08:49:38  [[Pathana]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178283&oldid=139534 * Dragoneater67 * (+56) /* Turing-Complete */
08:49:54  [[Pathana]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178284&oldid=178283 * Dragoneater67 * (+0) /* Computational class */
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09:43:25  [[NANDNZ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178285 * Dragoneater67 * (+1632) Created page with "'''NANDNZ''' is an [[OISC]] inspired by [[Subleq]]. == Overview == NANDNZ takes 3 arguments:  A B C It NANDs values at A and B, stores the result in A, then jumps to C if the result is not 0, otherwise, it proceed
09:44:15  [[NANDNZ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178286&oldid=178285 * Dragoneater67 * (+0) 
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10:10:30  [[User talk:Yayimhere]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178287&oldid=178282 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+181) /* Bring to another appears twice on your list! */
10:10:50  [[User:Yayimhere]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178288&oldid=178096 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-67) /* esolangs */
11:03:12  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178289&oldid=178155 * Dragoneater67 * (+117) better wording & formatting
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12:18:49  [[Il]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178290 * Meh2 * (+741) Created page with "Il is like [[Il]], but  outputs it and made by [[User:Meh2]].  ===Commands===  {| class="wikitable sortable" |+ Caption text |- ! Command !! Description  |- | I || Increment  |- | l || Decrement  |- |  || Output |}  ==Examples== ===Hello, World!=== 
 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
12:19:21  [[@ complete]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178291&oldid=178265 * Dragoneater67 * (+16) 
12:19:54  [[Il]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178292&oldid=178290 * Meh2 * (+0) 
12:21:27  [[CollaborativePL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178293&oldid=178251 * PrySigneToFry * (+174) 
12:22:09  [[User guessed]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178294&oldid=178218 * PrySigneToFry * (+0) 
12:22:24  [[User:Meh2]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178295&oldid=178076 * Meh2 * (+53) 
12:26:32  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178296&oldid=178259 * EsolangerII * (+93) 
12:41:30  [[Malbolge programming]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178297&oldid=65586 * Dragoneater67 * (+3) /* Putting all together */
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13:42:08  [[User talk:Corbin/Spring cleaning]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178298&oldid=178275 * Aadenboy * (+620) 
14:33:09  [[%^&78]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178299&oldid=175902 * Yoyolin0409 * (+19) 
14:41:03  [[Https://esolangs.org]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178300&oldid=177886 * Yoyolin0409 * (+10) /* Instructions */
14:43:09  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178301&oldid=177720 * Yoyolin0409 * (+15) /* Data */
14:44:25  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178302&oldid=178301 * Yoyolin0409 * (+10) /* Hello, World! */
14:52:57  [[Wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178303&oldid=173631 * Yoyolin0409 * (+0) /* HQ9+ Interpreter */
15:13:21  [[Wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178304&oldid=178303 * Aadenboy * (+85) see also
15:13:43  [[Esolangs]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178305&oldid=177892 * Aadenboy * (+37) /* See also */ add [[Wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/]]
15:14:01  [[Esolangs.org]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178306&oldid=177890 * Aadenboy * (+37) /* See also */  add [[Wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/]]
15:14:17  [[Https://esolangs.org]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178307&oldid=178300 * Aadenboy * (+37) /* See also */ add [[Wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/wiki/]]
15:25:46  [[User:Aadenboy/wikipiss]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178308&oldid=169688 * Aadenboy * (+432) more shiz
15:50:51  [[User talk:Aadenboy/wikipiss]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178309 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+128) Created page with "I love this! --~~~~"
16:11:56  [[User talk:Corbin/Spring cleaning]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178310&oldid=178298 * Corbin * (+344) 
16:51:12  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Esolang lover123 *  New user account
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16:56:00  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178311&oldid=178296 * EsolangerII * (+81) /* Looper */
16:56:20  [[ToFunction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178312&oldid=178311 * EsolangerII * (-88) /* addition */
16:56:35  [[ToFunction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178313&oldid=178312 * EsolangerII * (+8) /* Looper */
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17:06:10  [[CollaborativePL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178314&oldid=178293 * LEOMOK * (+557) 
17:08:28  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178315&oldid=178313 * EsolangerII * (+2442) 
17:21:10  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178316&oldid=178077 * Esolang lover123 * (+187) 
17:37:54  [[User talk:Corbin/Spring cleaning]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178317&oldid=178310 * Aadenboy * (+465) 
17:38:23  [[User talk:Corbin/Spring cleaning]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178318&oldid=178317 * Aadenboy * (+61) 
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17:42:48  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178319&oldid=178315 * EsolangerII * (-85) 
17:43:08  [[ToFunction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178320&oldid=178319 * EsolangerII * (-20) /* reverser(bin) */
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17:51:09  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178321&oldid=178320 * Aadenboy * (-14) /* Looper */ golfed if I understand this correctly
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17:59:35  [[ToFunction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178322&oldid=178321 * EsolangerII * (+1) /* Python */
18:03:18  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178323&oldid=178322 * EsolangerII * (+28) /* Looper */ yep. thats true
18:06:34  [[User:EsolangerII]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178324&oldid=178260 * EsolangerII * (-152) 
18:08:28  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178325&oldid=178323 * EsolangerII * (+178) 
18:12:49  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178326&oldid=178325 * EsolangerII * (+248) /* Examples */
18:13:55  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178327&oldid=178326 * EsolangerII * (-1) /* Examples */
18:19:13  [[ToFunction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178328&oldid=178327 * EsolangerII * (+0) /* Examples */
18:22:26  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178329&oldid=178328 * EsolangerII * (+63) Categorized
18:25:22  [[Triple-U]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178330 * LEOMOK * (+2522) Created page with "'''Triple-U''' is a programming language which uses only three characters: u, w (double u) and  (triple u).  == Overview == Triple-U operates on an infinite tape of data strings, each starting empty.   There is also a 
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18:30:08  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178331&oldid=178329 * EsolangerII * (+21) /* Reverser(bin) */
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18:36:36  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178332&oldid=178331 * EsolangerII * (-361) /* Reverser(bin) */  there is error
18:48:05  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178333&oldid=178332 * EsolangerII * (-1875) /* Interpreters/Compilers */
18:48:15  [[ToFunction]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178334&oldid=178333 * EsolangerII * (+1) /* Interpreters/Compilers */
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19:09:05  [[User:Salpynx/Going to Zagreb to buy a pony]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178335&oldid=145061 * Salpynx * (-61) /* Syntax */
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20:11:04  [[User:/esolangs?action=edit]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178336&oldid=174378 *  * (+178) 
20:14:15  [[Yesno]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178337 *  * (+273) Created page with "{{Stub}} '''Yesno''' is an esolang made by [[User:]]. == Commands == {{cd|Yes}}: Adds, and goes to the next item if this item was smaller than 0  {{cd|No}}: Subtracts, and goes to the previous item if this item was smaller than 0 [[Category:Languages]] [[Category:2026]]"
20:14:45  [[User:/esolangs]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178338&oldid=172303 *  * (+11) Added Yesno
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20:23:34  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178339&oldid=178334 * Aadenboy * (+126) implement in Lua
20:23:57  [[User:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178340&oldid=178016 * Aadenboy * (+31) /* interpreters */ add [[ToFunction]]
20:33:13  [[ToFunction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178341&oldid=178339 * Aadenboy * (+143) 
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20:43:19  Uh. Isn't this circular? https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/scripting.html#the-script-element says (among other things) that it can be used in contexts where script-supporting elements are expected. Which includes