02:27:31 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * PrincessPandaLovelace * New user account 02:29:51 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179106&oldid=179102 * PrincessPandaLovelace * (+451) /* Introductions */ 02:35:15 [[SonicSaga]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179107 * PrincessPandaLovelace * (+428) Created page with "{{Stub}} {{WIP}} '''SonicSaga''' is an esoteric programming language created by [[User:PrincessPandaLovelace]]. It is themed after the ''[[Wikipedia:Sonic the Hedgehog|Sonic the Hedgehog]]'' video game series. The source code style is based on ''Sonic'' 03:43:16 [[E0ZACH-C+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179108&oldid=179105 * Dragoneater67mobile * (-2) esolang, not "estrolang" please 03:44:35 [[E0ZACH-C+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179109&oldid=179108 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+9) 04:45:27 -!- cactushead has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:45:46 -!- cactushead has joined. 04:58:14 [[NFOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179110&oldid=174689 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-2) /* Memory */ 04:59:15 [[NFOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179111&oldid=179110 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+41) 05:02:36 [[Mention]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179112&oldid=165115 * PKMN Trainer * (+8) 05:11:08 [[SonicSaga]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179113&oldid=179107 * PrincessPandaLovelace * (+18) 05:49:42 [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179114&oldid=178969 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+69) /* my esolangs */ metamorphosis 06:22:09 [[User:Dragoneater67]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179115&oldid=179056 * Dragoneater67 * (+31) /* uwu nyaaa :3 rawr */ 06:26:34 [[Dango]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179116&oldid=172980 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (-4802) new dango 06:36:02 [[Dango]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179117&oldid=179116 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+153) /* Syntax */ forgot to add labels 06:39:39 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:50:55 -!- tromp has joined. 07:40:46 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:47:39 -!- tromp has joined. 07:59:45 [[Functionable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179118&oldid=179090 * PKMN Trainer * (+142) 08:33:46 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Initys * New user account 08:38:46 [[User:Dragoneater67/wipwipwip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179119&oldid=177426 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+111) 08:41:02 [[User:Dragoneater67/wipwipwip/Miracle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179120 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+98) Created page with "{{Stub}} {{WIP}} '''Miracle''' is an [[esoteric programming language]]. It does not exist ''yet''." 08:51:37 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179121&oldid=179095 * PKMN Trainer * (+19) /* F */ 09:08:38 [[Functionable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179122&oldid=179118 * PKMN Trainer * (+47) 09:17:20 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:24:58 [[Functionable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179123&oldid=179122 * PKMN Trainer * (-12) /* Computational class */ 09:39:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:41:54 -!- Yayimhere has joined. 09:42:14 hi! 10:23:11 hi 10:23:31 how are you doing? less tired or? 10:26:20 -!- dragoneater68 has joined. 10:26:23 hi 10:26:56 hello dragoneater68' 10:27:04 Yayimhere: I've been pretty busy recently 10:27:17 and it's probably made trying to concentrate on programming even harder 10:27:26 this morning I opened up the computer to start programming and then just didn't 10:27:34 im waiting for THE MIRACLE 10:28:09 dragoneater68: I did in fact see 10:28:20 ok 10:28:55 also, what ended up happening with the FWoTD thing? 10:29:11 regarding fwotd: i came to conclusion that my solution sucks, so i didnt publish it 10:29:16 ill rework it 10:29:17 maybe 10:29:39 i think this is what ill do today since i dont have much else to do 10:29:43 cool 10:29:49 btw the TC requirement was removed 10:30:03 i saw that 10:30:10 nice 10:30:59 btw 10:31:14 whats the lowest computational class that can do looping counter? 10:31:49 linear bounded atomaton I think? 10:32:00 it makes sense for Otto be that, because looping counter is linear 10:33:14 but it has bounds 10:33:34 yea, but that bound grows by a linear function 10:33:49 a linear function of the input 10:33:53 atleast for what I know 10:34:39 ok cool 10:35:22 idk what the smallest comp class can do narrcicists and quibbles and such though 10:35:32 quines* 10:35:40 afaik quibbles are not a thing 10:35:52 quibbles? 10:35:57 ah 10:35:58 lol 10:36:02 autocorrect 10:36:11 but it would be funny if quibbles were real 10:36:22 true 10:36:42 sounds like a qubit quine 10:36:48 quantum quine? 10:36:51 yea 10:37:36 i cant imagine how that could work 10:38:08 me neither 10:38:23 thats for the quantum scientists to find out 10:40:21 ive read some stuff abt quantum computers 10:40:25 understood none of it 10:40:33 i kinda get it I think 10:40:38 maybe I dont though 10:40:48 I think. I just kinda get quantum mechanics a little bit 10:41:12 the most i could understand is cat in box thingy 10:41:19 its not dead nor alive 10:41:26 yea 10:41:33 because we havent observed it yet 10:41:49 I get to the point that functions on a particle applies to all the super positions 10:41:56 whats the lowest computational class that can do looping counter? ← the computational class "this language only has one command and it's a looping counter command" 10:41:57 which seems a little ring-esque 10:42:48 an LBA can't do a looping counter, incidentally, because looping counters have to be able to count up arbitrarily high and the distance an LBA can count is limited by the size of its input 10:43:12 ah 10:43:19 I seem to have misunderstood an LBA then 10:43:32 I thought the linear function continued to be applied each iteration 10:43:41 what is that class called? does it have a name 10:44:08 the looping counter class? I don't think we have a good name for classes that are specific to a single program or a few specific programs (like HQ9+'s computational class) 10:44:09 no, it came into existence just 3 minutes ago 10:44:38 I studied quantum computers as coursework at school, but it was at a very basic level 10:44:48 no I meant for the class where the memory size grows linearly with some linear function starting from the input 10:44:55 Yayimhere: that's an LBA 10:44:56 i think that the current computational claases are too narrow 10:45:00 err, hmm 10:45:12 it's an LBA if the memory size is set at the start of the program, as a linear function of the input size 10:45:40 if it can change during the program (and grow indefinitely) it isn't an LBA, but the "linear" restriction doesn't really matter at that point, because you could just run the program really slowly to give the memory more time to grow 10:45:43 ais523: but ehat if it grows? 10:45:49 true 10:46:00 ais523: yea that makes sense 10:46:31 wait so if the function is exponential it could be the same as one thats linear 10:47:19 EBA? 10:47:20 there are some TC languages where the memory grows linearly, like https://esolangs.org/wiki/2C and its variants 10:47:28 true 10:47:30 huh 10:48:10 when 2C is simulating a function that requires exponential amounts of memory, it slows down exponentially to give the memory time to grow 10:48:55 makes sense 10:49:40 is there a formal way to describe, in general, that exponential slow down of the program 10:49:52 I think there should be but I don't know what it is 10:50:04 yea 10:50:14 maybe thats undecidable for some programs though 10:50:15 idk 10:52:25 oh, hmm, there's some theorem about space complexity versus time complexity but I can't remember what it's called 10:52:45 I think that might be what you're looking for, but I don't want to guess at the details because it is probably very sensitive to the exact way the theorem is worded 10:53:30 yea true 10:53:57 this one? 10:53:58 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immerman%E2%80%93Szelepcs%C3%A9nyi_theorem 10:55:38 dragoneater68: that's an interesting theorem but it isn't the one I was thinking of 10:56:27 huh 10:58:59 this one? 10:59:00 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_hierarchy_theorem 11:00:13 huh, this isn't the one I wanted either, but it's really interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum%27s_speedup_theorem 11:00:29 dragoneater68: I'm looking for a theorem that relates space complexities to time complexities 11:02:19 i found this: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2311.01184v2 11:04:02   that would seem like it, but idk 11:04:30 huh, that paper claims that EXPTIME = PSPACE, which would IIRC be a major result if true? 11:04:52 wow 11:05:12 it's also very recent (2024) 11:05:22 yea 11:05:37 I would be suspicious of it until it's been reviewed, there has been a history of mistakes made in computational class equivalency proofs 11:06:03 yea. but if its true, then I guess that could be. cool 11:06:35 what does that imply? 11:06:54 -!- dragoneater68 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 11:07:58 so it's fairly obvious that anything that can be solved in polynomial space can be solved in exponential time, because there are only exponentially many possible states of a polynomially-sized memory 11:08:17 and so you can just run the program until it finishes or starts repeating states, and that takes exponential time 11:08:23 yea true 11:08:25 the other way would be a bit surprising (but not obviously impossible) 11:09:18 I can't think of an obvious reason why finishing in exponential time would mean you only need polynomial amounts of memory 11:09:18 yeah, that sounds very unlikely 11:09:54 or… wait 11:10:23 "finishing in exponential time would mean you only need polynomial amounts of memory" => note that to get the low amount of memory, you may need a different program that's much slower 11:10:53 hold on, I think there was some recent surprising theorem like this, let me look up 11:11:26 b_jonas: much slower but still only exponential, of course 11:14:41 it's just that I don't think EXPTIME = PSPACE was the actual result, that's why I'm trying to look it up 11:14:55 it was something surprising like that, but not quite that exactly 11:20:05 [[Works in progress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179124&oldid=168746 * PKMN Trainer * (-47) 11:20:48 https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2025-09.html#lsj https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8680 every problem solvable in t time on a multi-tape Turing machine is also solvable in close to sqrt(t) space 11:20:55 that was the surprising result 11:21:16 it's certainly much weaker than EXPTIME = PSPACE would be 11:21:42 paper is https://eccc.weizmann.ac.il/report/2025/017/ 11:22:16 [[Works in progress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179125&oldid=179124 * PKMN Trainer * (-57) 11:22:56 b_jonas: OK, I agree that that's surprising 11:23:43 (and is the sort of theorem I was trying to find in the conversation earlier, determining space required based on time required) 11:26:51 the abstract for that article also says "any language recognized in polynomial time can be recognized in almost logarithmic space" which I'd find much harder to believe, so I'm not convinced that this is a real result 11:27:18 I mean the article https://arxiv.org/abs/2311.01184 that you linked earlier 11:29:39 was dragoneater68 who linked it, not me, but yes, it is making some very surprising claims and thus (to me) falls into the "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" category 11:30:34 I am not entirely ruling out the possibility, but it would take a lot of convincing to convince me that it has actually been solved 11:31:09 (even if the result happens to be true, I think the odds of the proof being wrong are quite high) 11:33:22 -!- dragoneater68 has joined. 11:33:26 that said, I can't quickly find counterexamples to "polytime recognition = logspace recognition", the first few languages I tried did have logspace recognition algorithms 11:34:03 (assuming that we're talking about logarithmic additional space) 11:34:16 ais523: no, I think that's one of those relations that are actually really hard to disprove 11:34:19 -!- dragoneater68 has quit (Client Quit). 11:34:38 b_jonas: right, it isn't obviously etiher true or false 11:35:19 I assume this is talking about P and L rather than NP and NL? 11:35:46 specifically https://complexityzoo.net/Complexity_Zoo:E#exp says that "if L = P then PSPACE = EXP, so the first claim of that article is almost a consequence of the second, except the second in the article might be a slightly weaker result, it's unclear to me 11:41:17 so NL is known to be contained in P, and L is obviously contained in NL 11:41:26 so L = P would also imply L = NL 11:43:21 [[NO WAY? NO WAY!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179126&oldid=179092 * PKMN Trainer * (+37) /* Instructions */ 11:44:15 (the existing result that NL = co-NL would be obviously trivial in this setting, so that's some suggestion that L = NL = P might be possible) 11:44:22 [[NO WAY? NO WAY!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179127&oldid=179126 * PKMN Trainer * (+0) /* Cat */ 11:46:31 heh, Wikipedia says that it isn't even known whether or not L = NP – I guess in a way that's also evidence that P might equal L! 11:46:54 yeah, absolute separation theorems are hard 11:47:12 [[NO WAY? NO WAY!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179128&oldid=179127 * PKMN Trainer * (+0) /* Cat */ 11:47:38 and if there was a real result like this then Scott Aaronson's blog would mention it, and I think if it had actually said PSPACE = EXPTIME I'd even remember it 11:47:47 also the Complexity zoo would mention it 11:48:09 this one is new enough to potentially be correct but not reviewed yet (but it's also new enough that mistakes in it might not have been caught yet) 11:49:01 it's from 2023-11. I know mathematics can be slow, but for something that's a really big breakthrough we'd hear about it, at the very least hear about uncertainty because they're still checking the proof 11:49:09 I think it's old enough 11:59:01 Yayimhere: Quantum mechanics is all about Hilbert space. We start with vector spaces over complex numbers. It's just a different way of working with numeric objects. 11:59:17 Our intuition is Cartesian closed: we can copy and delete thoughts. QM doesn't allow that. 12:00:22 korvo: huh 12:00:56 ais523: Tangent to both conversations, Feynman's way of summing path integrals is in PSPACE. There is kind of a mystery about how that interacts with Holevo's theorem and Hardy's theorem, but it's a good example of EXPTIME intuitions turning into PSPACE algorithms. 12:04:15 Yayimhere: Well, think about chemistry. If you have one beaker of water, there's no chemical reaction that will duplicate it into two beakers of water, right? 12:04:47 Some quantities in QM are conserved; they don't change over time. This means no copying or deletion of stuff. 12:05:33 the reversibiliity of quantum computing is interesting but I don't think it's the main point 12:06:46 quantum computing is primarily weird because it's sort-of massively multithreaded with exponential threads (in the sense of a mathematically-nondeterministic system), but unlike typical nondeterminism, you don't get the "best result" or "least halting result" or "most halting result", instead each of the threads gets to influence the probability of a particular result being visible in a somewhat complex way 12:07:03 and programming it is about trying to make the probability influences combine in such a way that they maximise the probability of getting the answer you wanted 12:07:20 korvo: yea that makes sense. 12:07:21 ais523: if you want a plausible candidate for decision problems that are in P but probably not L, we're hoping that password hashing functions do this. This is technically not quite right, because it could be possible that there's a logarithmic space algorithm whose time complexity, though polynomial, is too slow to be practically usable, but I think close enough. 12:07:22 but you only get one result and it's random, in most cases all possible results have some probability 12:13:33 [[Rhombitrihexagonal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179129&oldid=155343 * 5anz * (+84) /* Triangles */ 12:15:23 I don't want to say that the exponentially-many-superpositions model is wrong per se, but it's got a lot of metaphysical issues. The biggest one is the preferred-basis problem: whether something is in superposition is often conditioned on how one *rotates* their laboratory. 12:16:19 I find myself pinned between theorems. Hardy's theorem requires exponentially-large state spaces but Holevo's theorem says that we can only read one bit of information per measured qubit, a linear amount. So most of the state is inaccessible. 12:17:45 The Pusey-Barrett-Rudolph (PBR) theorem says that the wavefunction is ontic, so that exponentially-large state space isn't just a mathematical artifact; it also forces Everettians to deal with preferred bases. 12:18:58 So we're left with a situation where the wavefunction is real but particles aren't real. (If you really insist that particles are real despite this then the Kochen-Specker theorem (and its consequence, Bell's theorem) will force you to accept something undesirable, either non-locality or superdeterminism.) 12:19:36 [[Esolang:Be bold in editing pages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179130&oldid=146110 * Qazwsxplm * (+6) 12:22:01 [[Esolang talk:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179131&oldid=146187 * Qazwsxplm * (+134) /* ??? */ new section 12:22:48 korvo: so my interest is more in "how this is programmed" rather than "how this actually works, physically" 12:23:04 I don't mind if the model is physically inaccurate as long as it allows you to understand how the programming language would work 12:23:10 [[Esolang talk:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179132&oldid=179131 * Qazwsxplm * (+224) 12:23:42 ais523: Sure. They dovetail, though; we've proven that there's *one* semantic model for QM: the category of complex-valued Hilbert spaces. So there's really only one starting point. 12:24:56 This might not be obvious, given how many physicists try to introduce toy models. But whether it's Spekkens or Wolfram, toy models are known to not be able to reproduce QM in 3D thanks to Kochen-Specker. 12:25:39 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179133&oldid=168201 * Qazwsxplm * (+377) 12:26:03 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179134&oldid=179133 * Qazwsxplm * (-377) 12:28:19 ais523: I guess that, zooming out, my view is that if I know which category to use for programming a system then I already have a half-decent syntax for expressing programs. Cammy is built on Cartesian-closed categories but it's not self-hosting, so I can always create a Hilbert-flavored Cammy, a relational Cammy, etc. just by switching the constructions used to build the category. 12:28:30 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179135&oldid=179134 * Qazwsxplm * (+239) /* Sandbox */ 12:28:53 korvo: that's a respectable view but I suspect you're in an extreme minority among programmers 12:29:21 But other than that, I'm not sure that our intuition for how things are programmed can be transferred. Lambda-binders *are* Cartesian-closedness; they're two ways of looking at the same phenomenon. There's no lambda calculus for QM. 12:29:28 syntax the computer-science concept and syntax the programming concept are clearly connected and yet many people prefer to disregard the connection 12:29:49 ais523: Yeah, but most programmers are conservative know-nothing blowhards. (Most humans, really.) I will accept the tradeoff of actually knowing a little foundational physics. 12:30:07 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179136&oldid=179135 * Qazwsxplm * (-239) 12:30:36 meanwhile, I'm the sort of person who acknowledges the connection exists, but prefers to only actively use it when talking to computer scientists because when talking to other people, it's not good for communicating 12:30:43 anyway, /away for a bit 12:30:49 Sure. Take it easy. 12:30:50 bye! 12:41:17 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179137&oldid=179136 * Qazwsxplm * (+3996) 12:42:02 -!- svm has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:42:05 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179138&oldid=179137 * Qazwsxplm * (-3996) 12:42:26 -!- svm has joined. 12:42:50 [[Free Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179139&oldid=172594 * 5anz * (+488) /* Additions */ 12:44:36 -!- msv has joined. 12:44:40 [[User:Qazwsxplm/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179140 * Qazwsxplm * (+777) Created page with "==Sandbox== 
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12:45:02  [[User:Qazwsxplm/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179141&oldid=179140 * Qazwsxplm * (-766) Replaced content with "==Sandbox=="
12:46:30  [[Free Esolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179142&oldid=179139 * 5anz * (-488) /* Additions */
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12:48:36  [[Esolang talk:Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179143&oldid=179132 * Qazwsxplm * (+144) /* Revisions before december 19 2024 unviewable */ new section
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12:53:49  [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179144&oldid=179138 * Qazwsxplm * (+6621) ALL HIEROGLYPHS FROM UNICODE (EGYPT AND ANATOLIAN, HARMONY OS SANS DISPLAYABLE CHARACTERS ONLY)
12:54:29  [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179145&oldid=179144 * Qazwsxplm * (-6621) /* Sandbox */
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13:14:49  [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179146&oldid=179145 * Qazwsxplm * (+891) 
13:15:23  [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179147&oldid=179146 * Qazwsxplm * (+10) 
13:15:56  [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179148&oldid=179147 * Qazwsxplm * (-901) 
13:22:57  [[Esolang talk:Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179149&oldid=179143 * Ais523 * (+519) /* Revisions before december 19 2024 unviewable */ AI scraper bots
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13:26:14  [[Esolang:Policy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179150&oldid=174609 * Qazwsxplm * (+179) 
13:32:30  [[Template:Archived]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179151&oldid=125464 * Qazwsxplm * (+0) 
13:38:10  [[Esolang:Policy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179152&oldid=179150 * Ais523 * (-179) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/179150|179150]] by [[Special:Contributions/Qazwsxplm|Qazwsxplm]] ([[User talk:Qazwsxplm|talk]])  although accurate, we shouldn't really need to state the obvious; if someone gets banned without a warning then they were likely doing something fo
13:40:27  [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179153&oldid=178875 * Qazwsxplm * (+6) /* Add a logo on Vector 2022 */
13:41:48  I will think about how to phrase it, but I think qazwsxplm points out something important. We don't explain the remedies for policy violations. Some stuff is spilt milk; we say "please don't do that" and clean it up without punishing anybody.
13:42:29  [[Esolang talk:Community portal]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179154&oldid=179153 * Qazwsxplm * (+1) /* Translate to other languages */
13:44:56  [[List of esolang file extensions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179155&oldid=178844 * Qazwsxplm * (+29) 
13:46:50  [[User talk:Qazwsxplm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179156&oldid=178576 * Qazwsxplm * (+185) /* THANK YOU  */
13:50:31  well, I'm mostly following the usual "if someone breaks the rules then tell them about it, if someone is actively disruptive give a ban" – I don't expect everyone to have read the Policy page
13:50:38  it would be nice if they did, but unrealisitc
13:50:53  [[Talk:Septem Lingua]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179157&oldid=176564 * Qazwsxplm * (+196) /* Coincidentally this title has seven English words */ new section
13:51:16  in general it is best to tell people about rules only in the situation where they might break them, beause otherwise it's too hard for a new user to remember all of them
13:51:45  that's why, e.g., the rules for creating a page are primarily on the "create new page" page
13:53:11  [[Talk:Septem Lingua]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179158&oldid=179157 * Qazwsxplm * (+26) 
13:53:30  still a bit busy, anyway, will be offline for a bit longer
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13:53:42  [[Talk:Septem Lingua]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179159&oldid=179158 * Qazwsxplm * (+15) 
14:00:38  [[PocketFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179160&oldid=132421 * Qazwsxplm * (+46) 
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14:08:11  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Ultraslayyy *  New user account
14:08:17  [[Talk:DateTri]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179161 * Qazwsxplm * (+185) Created page with "a calendar date, a romantic night out, and fruit... Three meanings of "date"... Hmm... Interesting. ~~~~"
14:22:58  [[User talk:Qazwsxplm]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179162&oldid=179156 * PrySigneToFry * (+123) 
15:09:17  [[User:Yayimhere/iLGwMLS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179163 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1289) Created page with "iLGwMLS is a class of problems. Lets get these definitions: * K is a program. * Mi is the memory of K at iteration. * |x| is the length of x. * A is the in
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15:25:35  hello again!
15:30:00  Hi.
15:33:17  how are you doing
15:33:21  forgot to ask earlier
15:34:45  [[User:Yayimhere/iLGwMLS]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179164&oldid=179163 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+15) 
15:36:15  Mental health is on an uptick. I repotted some Aloe vera and put out four trays of Capsicum annuum (bell pepper) seeds.
15:36:38  nice!
15:36:55  (i assume mental health being on an uptick is a good thing?
15:38:57  Sure.
15:39:14  great
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16:16:11  [[Talk:Nine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179165 * Meh2 * (+74) Created page with "9 --~~~~"
16:36:34  @metar EGLL
16:36:35  METAR EGLL 081620Z COR AUTO 19009KT 150V240 9999 NCD 25/10 Q1020 NOSIG
16:36:47  This is just ridiculous for early April.
16:38:20  @metar KPDX
16:38:21  METAR KPDX 081553Z 00000KT 10SM SCT250 07/03 A3010 RMK AO2 SLP192 T00720033 $
16:38:48  It's basically summer already.
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16:55:12  hi again!
16:55:31  Hi.
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17:06:49  [[Talk:Dd]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179166 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+232) Created page with "I struggle to see how this in any way could be an FSA. FSA's, a the least, takes input. its much weaker than an FSA.  --~~~~"
17:45:36  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179167&oldid=179106 * Ultraslayyy * (+153) Yay my name's in here
17:45:51  [[Penis]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179168 * Ultraslayyy * (+3097) Created the Penis page
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17:48:11  hello again ais523
17:48:17  hi Yayimhere
17:48:52  i made a (user subpage) for the class of problems I was talking about earlier while you were gone(if that interest you)
17:49:15  fizzie: I assume you're commenting on the 25/10?
17:49:31  but yes, in England that would be an outlier even for summer
17:51:06  [[User:Ultraslayyy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179169 * Ultraslayyy * (+186) Created page
17:54:46  [[User:Ultraslayyy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179170&oldid=179169 * Ultraslayyy * (+14) Fix smiley face :)
17:57:48  Yes. Well, it's not supposed to last long.
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18:13:02  [[Stactal]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179171&oldid=157283 *  * (+89) /* Programs */
18:18:15  [[Stactal]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179172&oldid=179171 *  * (+198) 
18:21:26  [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179173&oldid=178473 * Ultraslayyy * (+48) Added Penis
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18:58:58  [[Talk:Finite-state automaton]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179174&oldid=10396 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+380) /* Two kinds of FSA language */
19:03:33  [[Reuts]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179175 *  * (+1577) Started page
19:12:52  [[Reuts]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179176&oldid=179175 *  * (+288) 
19:17:41  [[User talk:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179177&oldid=174484 *  * (+340) /* So I made a language */ new section
19:18:34  [[User talk:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179178&oldid=179177 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+192) /* So I made a language */
19:25:22  [[Reuts]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179179&oldid=179176 *  * (+179) /* Commands */
19:26:08  [[User talk:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179180&oldid=179178 *  * (+53) /* So I made a language */
19:27:31  [[User talk:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179181&oldid=179180 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+408) /* So I made a language */
19:33:47  [[Mention]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179182&oldid=179112 * PKMN Trainer * (+18) /* Computational class */
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19:37:53  [[User:PKMN Trainer/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179183&oldid=176266 * PKMN Trainer * (-26) Blanked the page
19:41:18  [[Reuts]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179184&oldid=179179 *  * (+894) Added explanation of Shasavic theory
19:42:31  [[User talk:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179185&oldid=179181 *  * (+145) /* So I made a language */
19:55:34  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Epzen *  New user account
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20:12:23  [[User talk:Aadenboy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179186&oldid=179185 * Aadenboy * (+566) /* So I made a language */
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20:50:00  [[Talk:99 bottles of pain]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179187 * MinekPo1 * (+2261) Created page with "Hi! I've decided to implement 99BoPa, and my implementation does not lead to your example hello world program outputting hello world, but "$!((+T106\n3+.( ". As you acknowledged that program is possibly incorrect, can you check my program, which should 
21:19:05  Huh, I hadn't heard of https://esolangs.org/wiki/%CE%A3%E2%88%9E
21:19:18  I was given a description of the language and "construct 1" as a puzzle.
21:36:28  That is a cute puzzle.
21:42:24  shachaf: is it too evil to write it like this: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/db68af75
21:42:50  [[Talk:99 bottles of pain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179188&oldid=179187 * MinekPo1 * (+67) 
21:46:33  int-e: how does that work? it seems to have a free variable
21:47:40  b_jonas: No, each x is bound by some Σ[P≤x oh you're right
21:54:41  this needs some variable renaming so it doesn't shadow so much
21:54:59  which is why I asked whether this was too evil
21:55:13  finding a short expression for two may be hard?
21:55:46  (my first version has 169 characters)
21:59:55  My solution for 1 had only three sigmas.
22:00:08  Well, four at first, but one was unnecessary.
22:00:37  I didn't try to do 2.
22:03:02  hmm
22:04:07  Did they give you 0?
22:04:09  wait, so are you allowed to have a sum from infty to infty and will that sum have just one term?
22:04:38  b_jonas: No. It won't have 0 terms.
22:04:40  or is it no terms because it's an empty half-open interval
22:05:04  b_jonas: "For example, `Σ[∞≤x<∞]∞` = 0 because there are no natural numbers greater than or equal to infinity."
22:05:11  ok
22:05:30  (I didn't read that far before, but it is actually on that page.)
22:05:37  so that's how you get zero, but I'm still trying to understand how you'd get 1
22:06:27  shachaf: Did they give you 0? Two of my sums are there just for that.
22:10:09  oh I see!
22:10:11  that's clever
22:12:03  Oh the 2 situation is actually worse, I messed up. Fixing my mistake it's 233 characters.
22:16:04  ah, good sign, the definition on the wiki page is the same as mine, modulo alpha
22:20:17  I wonder whether version 0 is as powerful as https://esolangs.org/wiki/Tableaux or whether it's weaker? (I don't think it's stronger)
22:21:32  (and I don't think it's incommensurate either)
22:37:19  int-e: Oh, oops, I forgot that I defined 0 and used it in two places, never mind.
22:37:28  no worries
22:41:02  Σ∞ could benefit from a let…in statement, I think (as a preprocessor, not added into the language itself)
22:41:26  would make programs a lot shorter and clearer
22:41:47  ais523: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/e88abc1c ;-)
22:41:47  or possibly even nonrecursive functions/macros
22:43:55  the add function from the wiki is surprisingly not horrible... ADD(1,1) expands to 433 characters
22:45:14  (I expected thousands)
22:46:19  (but it turns out that most of the macros are linear; only `equal` isn't. so no exponential blowup takes place.)
22:54:34  (I'm unironically using that Haskell code; the smiley is there because this is obviously not user friendly. On the plus side, it was extremely low effort.)
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