< 1776041222 341903 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-153-130.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement > 1776043970 306373 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OPRBCM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179575&oldid=179542 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (-1) 10it(')s > 1776047939 705610 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Kolakoski sequence14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179576&oldid=175130 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+496) 10/* ZOWIE */ < 1776049342 37519 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs lisbeths :lisbeths > 1776050026 969850 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179577&oldid=179023 5* 03Tpaefawzen 5* (+18) 10/* External resources */ +year < 1776050518 91794 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.200 PRIVMSG #esolangs :goodnight < 1776050521 213321 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.200 QUIT :Quit: goodbye for now! back another day > 1776052760 179891 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07DisFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179578&oldid=160030 5* 03Tpaefawzen 5* (+89) 10/* Overview */ +1 < 1776055583 914304 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1776057243 864940 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Classic?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179579&oldid=168485 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+286) 10 < 1776057698 948766 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1776059702 313217 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs lisbeths :lisbeths > 1776060444 158270 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere/RBCL14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179580 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+214) 10Created page with "=== Semantics === The program "pointer" is written as |, and starts at the start of the program: y|x -> 1100x|y (where x is length 2) w|11xz1yz -> w11101xyz| (where x y and z are length 2) x| -> |x1" > 1776060492 516879 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere/RBCL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179581&oldid=179580 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+2) 10/* Semantics */ < 1776062207 962383 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:34e6:fa0e:340c:230e JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1776062457 342442 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds > 1776065360 994988 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere/RBCL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179582&oldid=179581 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+86) 10 > 1776065383 806419 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere/RBCL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179583&oldid=179582 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+23) 10/* Semantics */ > 1776066649 477389 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179584&oldid=179379 5* 03None1 5* (+569) 10/* Commands */ < 1776067298 936380 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1776068658 225831 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:34e6:fa0e:340c:230e QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1776069090 800739 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Emanator14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179585 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+216) 10Created page with "I think it's generally nicer to leave a proof of turing completeness on the page. like just why not? --~~~~" < 1776069135 135720 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:34e6:fa0e:340c:230e JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1776069231 71999 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179586&oldid=179584 5* 03None1 5* (-2951) 10 > 1776069271 943354 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pinyin14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=179587 5* 03None1 5* (+3153) 10Created page with "'''Pinyin''' is a [[fungeoid]] invented by [[User:None1]] that uses Chinese characters and Pinyin (a way of representing the pronounciation of Chinese characters using Latin letters). To avoid ambiguity, "this esolang" instead of "Pinyin" is used when referring to the eso > 1776069280 526001 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pinyin14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179588&oldid=179587 5* 03None1 5* (+0) 10 < 1776070212 833965 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:34e6:fa0e:340c:230e QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1776070303 475619 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179589&oldid=179443 5* 03None1 5* (+13) 10/* P */ > 1776070890 208464 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179590&oldid=179586 5* 03None1 5* (+22) 10 < 1776074113 952731 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:34e6:fa0e:340c:230e JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1776074801 837830 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pinyin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179591&oldid=179588 5* 03Cleverxia 5* (+1293) 10examples > 1776074846 804839 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pinyin14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179592&oldid=179591 5* 03Cleverxia 5* (+4) 10fix again > 1776074874 425201 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pinyin14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179593&oldid=179592 5* 03Cleverxia 5* (-11) 10fix yet again > 1776074987 431680 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Semi-serious language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179594&oldid=176154 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+15) 10/* E */ Add [[Emanator]] < 1776075436 162952 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:34e6:fa0e:340c:230e QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1776079071 72964 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1776079089 115989 :simcop2387_!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1776079185 638022 :simcop2387_!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 NICK :simcop2387 > 1776080366 911967 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179595&oldid=178036 5* 03None1 5* (+56) 10/* My Esolangs */ < 1776085238 111843 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1776085283 363969 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's a paper (found via lobste.rs) that claims that f(x,y) = e^x - ln(y) is ELEMENTARY-complete: https://arxiv.org/abs/2603.21852 (the paper itself is terrible but the result is interesting) < 1776085310 185702 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, that function + constant 1 < 1776085328 714880 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if I were writing that paper I would have written out a basis for ELEMENTARY in terms of the new operator < 1776085357 904631 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the paper doesn't actually do that, just puts a lot of detail into explaining how it was found < 1776085593 729063 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that said, the claim itself seems very plausible to me: I think the construction starts with f(x,1) = e^x and f(1,x) = e - ln(x), f(1,f(1,x)) = e - x, f(1,f(1,f(1,x)) = e - (e - ln(x)) = ln(x) < 1776085663 167355 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, typo, I meant f(1,f(x,1)) = e - x, f(1,f(f(1,x),1)) = e - (e - ln(x)) = ln(x) < 1776085698 97721 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah and f(ln(x),e^y) = x - y so you can bootstrap stuff like x^2 = e^(ln(x) + ln(x)) < 1776085733 414226 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :then multiplication from 2xy = (x+y)^2 - x^2 - y^2 < 1776085777 399560 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(such a cute trick, well-known of course from working with inner products and norms) < 1776085789 415959 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so this is the bit I'm unsure about, because ln(e^x) = x but e^(ln x) has the issue that x might not be in the domain of ln < 1776085824 634745 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh I'd restrict to R^+ < 1776085826 484671 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the paper is mostly disregarding that issue < 1776085862 505552 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well. you'd have to jump back and forth between reals and positive reals quite a bit < 1776085878 204270 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the paper itself seems very "AI-influenced", not necessarily AI-written but it makes a mistake common among AIs where it focuses too much on less important details and not enough on the important ones < 1776085879 357704 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I don't think it gets out of hand, just a bit tedious < 1776085955 666344 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But I haven't written anything down, so it's possible that I'm underestimating the complication. < 1776085999 452942 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this basis can't obviously compute modulus, I suspect that it could if you go into the complex numbers and use some sort of construction for arcsin or arccos < 1776086024 630432 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually, even regular sin or cos could work if you ensure that the input is an integer times an appropriate fraction of pi < 1776086103 909603 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or, no, that works for mod-2 but not obviously for mod-x < 1776086144 336845 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the paper is assuming that you're operating on complex numbers but really glosses over the branch cut < 1776086207 152536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :You can use polynomial interpolation on n-th roots of unity (aka DFT) to do modulo stuff for n > 2 too. < 1776086226 768667 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, that's clever < 1776086246 227334 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :as long as the factors you need are constructible < 1776086248 834421 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe just for fixed n? < 1776086286 778641 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, doing it for varying n would mean some sort of automatic construction and I think that would involve an arcsin < 1776086296 724244 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but arcsin seems likely to be possible to build out of this operation < 1776086607 878845 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-153-130.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1776087109 662808 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm you have an opportunity to use sin(x) = 2t/(1 + t^2), cos(x) = (1 - t^2)/(1 + t^2) where t = tan(x/2). < 1776087149 627597 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Just for cuteness; |sin(x)) = sqrt(1 - cos(x)^2) gives you about the same thing < 1776087193 998145 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :either way you can then target e^(ix) = cos(x) + i sin(x), and take the logarithm of that, and hope that the function picks the usual principal value for logarithms. < 1776087216 169102 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(so the x you get is reduced modulo 2pi) < 1776088969 774548 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, the details of the branch cut in the complex logarithm are super-relevant if you do this with complex numbers, I think < 1776090796 867458 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: TBH the paper tastes like it was written by a Wolframite; they've always been AI-curious, but when they need to ask the computer for questional numerical results they're using Mathematica rather than ChatGPT. < 1776090857 403195 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Because complex numbers are required, I'm not really convinced that they've given a good method for computing or representing pocket calculations. The hint at the end about using gradient descent seems more interesting TBH. < 1776091038 606932 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :This reminds me of a recent paper about generalizing orders of magnitude to the complex numbers: https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.03426 > 1776093838 340101 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arbitrary memory emulation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179596&oldid=175209 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (-654) 10replacing most of the