< 1779581973 920098 :sprock!~sprock@user/sprock QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1779584077 931479 :sprock!~sprock@user/sprock JOIN #esolangs sprock :maeve (she/her) > 1779584245 877475 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182606&oldid=182586 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+0) 10 > 1779584409 875256 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Simpler Subskin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182607&oldid=182605 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+378) 10 < 1779584893 229463 :ajal!~ambylastn@79-77-118-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1779586042 413548 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Caca14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182608&oldid=180891 5* 03Mari 5* (-18) 10remove undiscussed category > 1779586049 685914 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpriterlol14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182609&oldid=180892 5* 03Mari 5* (-18) 10remove undiscussed category < 1779586577 733519 :MizMahem_!uid296354@user/mizmahem QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1779587217 530351 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Befunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182610&oldid=182583 5* 03EvyLah 5* (+2) 10/* Fibonacci sequence */ I don't think that loop is aligned correctly < 1779588304 684669 :op_4!~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1779588343 920932 :op_4!~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473 JOIN #esolangs op_4 :op_4 < 1779590806 756970 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1779592103 959762 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1779592278 298916 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Client Quit < 1779592580 87316 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1779593575 854423 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine < 1779593756 952807 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1779602690 906412 :impomatic!~impomatic@lock-04-b2-v4wan-171175-cust377.vm10.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1779602753 602575 :impomatic!~impomatic@lock-04-b2-v4wan-171175-cust377.vm10.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic > 1779606573 889035 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0716 bits, 256 bytes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182611&oldid=158966 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+199) 10 > 1779607150 331325 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Simpler Subskin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182612&oldid=182607 5* 03Blashyrkh 5* (+193) 10 < 1779608472 305905 :emery!~quassel@217.155.30.169 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1779608733 581863 :emery!~quassel@217.155.30.169 JOIN #esolangs ehmry :Emery < 1779611047 29265 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi < 1779613027 727094 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1779613394 113936 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1779613629 855532 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1779613812 145922 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1779616819 103095 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1779617576 243297 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1779618033 167677 :aramya!~aramya@193.52.24.22 JOIN #esolangs * :realname > 1779620738 538650 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LAST14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182613&oldid=102884 5* 03Blashyrkh 5* (-1) 10/* 194-bit self-interpreter */ Since Tromp optimized his BLC self-interpreter, the difference had been reduced from 12 to 2 bits. > 1779622925 792845 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hammy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182614&oldid=181139 5* 03Hammy 5* (-113) 10removed the weird thingy that made my username green for some reason < 1779624015 940286 :amby!~ambylastn@79-77-118-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1779626465 583015 :aramya!~aramya@193.52.24.22 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1779630127 677711 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Zinnia Glean14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182615&oldid=165333 5* 03Zinnia Glean 5* (+470) 10 < 1779638913 469092 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1779643270 567203 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :do domestic phone numbers not exist in New Zealand? (this is one of the main anomalies in the locale differences) < 1779645003 83116 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1779645311 895493 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1779647008 89315 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1779647281 422405 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Huh. I guess they don't quite have area codes but are instead assigning prefixes to telco/city pairs (many to one) on demand, by application: https://www.nad.org.nz/number-register < 1779648032 446176 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Or maybe they have a very coarse area code that's just a single digit? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dialling_codes_in_New_Zealand says that you can use 0 as the trunk prefix (rather than starting everything with +64/0064), so having a domestic format would make sense from that perspective. < 1779648155 434114 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So, I don't know. Maybe it's an omission in the locale DB. Maybe nobody uses such local phone numbers. Or maybe there's something I'm missing. Yay! < 1779648161 75378 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1779648285 622593 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_numbers_in_New_Zealand#Numbering_plan certainly suggests that the 0... format sees some use < 1779648597 54785 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood > 1779648825 414931 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Copyright makes no sense14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182616&oldid=94317 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-2055) 10After thorough consideration, the page does not seem to offer any practical value. The article was intended to evoke the idea that copyright is a social construct rather than a mathematical one, and therefore any attempt at formalizing it would fail. However, < 1779648962 773809 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh, I accidentally omitted the @ in an email address I was trying to send to, and my email client gave me an "are you sure?" – I'm surprised that there was an option to attempt to send it regardless < 1779649030 932360 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it could almost certainly have formulated the corresponding SMTP but there's very little chance that the submission server would accept it, so I'm not sure why there was an option to do so – testing mailservers, perhaps? or maybe it would be interpreted as some form of mailing other than email via the Internet? > 1779649645 695907 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Copyright makes no sense14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182617&oldid=182616 5* 03Corbin 5* (+2055) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/182616|182616]] by [[Special:Contributions/Hakerh400|Hakerh400]] ([[User talk:Hakerh400|talk]]): Nah, this is both hilarious and correct. Copyright is incompatible with information theory. > 1779649739 623823 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ShiftAleph14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182618&oldid=182341 5* 03Broxol 5* (+80) 10/* INTRODUCTION */ < 1779649779 177586 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: In any case, glibc's locale data has never had a domestic phone number format for NZ. I honestly don't know how one would notice, other than looking at that data (whether directly or through locale-related tools) < 1779649805 237716 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it depends on whether any programs try to use the locale to format phone numbers, I guess < 1779649873 934185 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( you'd first need a program that uses phone numbers ) < 1779649875 94007 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: the proof's argument may be correct but its premises are wrong (specifically premise 3) < 1779649895 356197 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(only half serious) < 1779649900 503715 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess most programs that use phone numbers would want to consider the possibility that the phone numbers they store might not be domestic < 1779649926 204302 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and so wouldn't try to format phone numbers as though domestic, perhaps unless there was evidence to the contrary? < 1779649959 109328 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord > 1779650036 512757 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182619&oldid=182508 5* 03Broxol 5* (+73) 10/* Partially Silly Ideas */ < 1779650100 899151 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood > 1779650107 210002 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182620&oldid=182619 5* 03Broxol 5* (+4) 10/* Partially Silly Ideas */ < 1779650151 986092 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I would use a sorites argument to embarrass any legal pro who tries to assault (3). Yes, it's false, but *why* it is false is quite entertaining. < 1779650207 280104 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Because surely we would not argue against the existence of a category which allows us to cut up books, with limited photocopying, such that we have an arrow from book B to book C precisely when we can transform (not too many copies of) B into C. < 1779650215 127786 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Now wtf is this site: https://localedb.org/countries/NZ < 1779650220 324207 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: well the least controversial argument why it's false is the possibility that the copyrighted book is encoded in the reliable way rather than in the book you're reconstructing it from < 1779650251 304502 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(this sort of thing is a real issue in, e.g., TCness proofs – you need to show that the TCness is in the program execution rather than in the way you're determining whether or not it halted) < 1779650261 35472 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: But there will always be highly detailed transformations, like permutations which shuffle the order of chapters, that are relatively un-transformative for copyright. < 1779650266 263787 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or, if the program is infinitely long, in the way the program is created < 1779650270 111801 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And why is the international prefix so wrong? *Checks US* No, I don't think 011 is right for the US either. :P < 1779650316 662718 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I believe there are situations where some permutations of a list are copyrightable and others aren't (with the copyright being in the permutation itself rather than the list) < 1779650330 34091 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although that might be more of a database right than a traditional copyright < 1779650353 883765 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Sure. But that rather gives away the top-level premise we're supposed to prove, yeah? < 1779650388 734640 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: this is a very difficult subject to write reasonable proofs on, because the law doesn't follow logic in a traditiona lway < 1779650438 334627 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yep. The way I like to think of it is that a society can't coherently believe in copyright and information theory simultaneously. < 1779650457 754146 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :here's a fun thought experiment under UK law – suppose you take a copyrighted work A, generate a random stream of bits B, then give A^B to one person and B to another person, in a way where you don't record which is which < 1779650472 568209 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :who if anyone is breaking the law? < 1779650539 232020 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I remember that! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OFFSystem < 1779650600 474121 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: There's those weirdly free-form looking empty hroup email list addresses (most commonly `undisclosed recipients:;`) < 1779650608 660898 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hroup -> group < 1779650659 927271 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so if you're too lazy to implement a parser for that, allowing to send an email without @ in the To: address[es] is a solution for that ;) < 1779650663 267396 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: oh right, the To: field can be different from the RCPT TO – so I could put an invalid address in To: and set the real address I wanted as a Bcc: < 1779650749 295763 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Anyway, if you're interested in USA law at all, there's a great review from a few years ago that explains precisely how untenable copyright has become: https://journals.library.columbia.edu/index.php/stlr/article/view/12761 < 1779650823 354334 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: anyway, I'm pretty sure the copyright system is based on causality, so in my scenario, one of the recipients would be liable if they forwarded their block further and the other one wouldn't, but nobody can tell which – it wouldn't surprise me if setting up this situation intentionally might itself be illegal, as that would be the typical way to close that sort of loophole < 1779650878 724949 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've felt for a while that copyright laws would benefit from being weakened (but likely not removed entirely) but it is very hard to work out the exact correct point < 1779650880 458108 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: That'd be nice, but copyright is might-makes-right; it's a system which disproportionately rewards big publishers with capital investments. < 1779650926 144690 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but when LLMs became widespread, and governments showed a tendency towards allowing them to be legal, it struck me that this was one of the stupidest possible ways to weaken copyright law < 1779650947 995763 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have been following the lawsuit where the New York Times (and a number of other newspapers) sued Microsoft and OpenAI very closely > 1779650950 151884 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182621&oldid=182620 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+2086) 10/* Interactive theorem provers */ Add new ideas < 1779650965 87408 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is likely to be a couple of years before it produces meaningful results, though < 1779651089 990409 :impomatic!~impomatic@lock-04-b2-v4wan-171175-cust377.vm10.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1779651168 519796 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03WarrenG 5* 10New user account < 1779651217 948459 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1779651350 428727 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood > 1779651471 319702 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182622&oldid=182621 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+34) 10/* Interactive theorem provers */ < 1779651909 702480 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1779652141 560735 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1779652186 116690 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1779652320 822492 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1779652405 602161 :impomatic!~impomatic@lock-04-b2-v4wan-171175-cust377.vm10.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic < 1779652685 773064 :impomatic!~impomatic@lock-04-b2-v4wan-171175-cust377.vm10.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1779653754 244313 :emery!~quassel@217.155.30.169 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1779653769 80055 :emery!~quassel@217.155.30.169 JOIN #esolangs ehmry :Emery < 1779654014 959346 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1779654107 193853 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1779654557 443266 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had said before that I think many of the things they put in the locale should belong in other places instead; either with the data being handled or with the configuration of some other subsystem (e.g. modem, printer, terminal, etc) > 1779654731 871031 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182623&oldid=182622 5* 03Broxol 5* (+47) 10/* Mathematics */ > 1779655009 934743 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07-114]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=182624 5* 03Broxol 5* (+2536) 10Created page with "-1 is a stack-based language created by [[User:Broxol]]. It is designed to only allow stacking of imaginary numbers. This language was made from the inspiration page, so Im not going to really explain it, but I do have some examples. Unfortunately, I did not add any form of > 1779655082 498520 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182625&oldid=182623 5* 03Broxol 5* (+10) 10/* Mathematics */ > 1779655106 667922 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Broxol14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182626&oldid=182344 5* 03Broxol 5* (+11) 10 < 1779655305 365105 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1779655374 628775 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood > 1779655466 171894 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ShiftAleph14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182627&oldid=182618 5* 03Broxol 5* (-80) 10 > 1779656418 335601 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=182628&oldid=182625 5* 03Broxol 5* (+157) 10/* Partially Silly Ideas */ < 1779656476 228480 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs lisbeths :lisbeths < 1779656665 99589 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1779656847 287899 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1779656869 932090 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Good Night 😴 < 1779658015 671260 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1779658159 442416 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu JOIN #esolangs * :b_jonas < 1779664234 792502 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1779666800 326700 :amby!~ambylastn@79-77-118-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement