1787923407 714549 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MoreMathRPN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191136&oldid=191131 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (-18) 10how did i miss that???
> 1787923417 217353 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:ChuckEsoteric0814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191137&oldid=190899 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+13) 10/* 2026 */
> 1787923446 68679 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Template:Infobox AI proglang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191138&oldid=189894 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (-23) 10remove nonexistent category
> 1787923466 619621 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[079D brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191139&oldid=191105 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+0) 10fix typo
< 1787923653 252988 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wow, that Unthree star programmer idea looks horrible to prove the computational class of
> 1787923884 634221 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07-14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191140&oldid=191096 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+4) 10reword
< 1787923890 908084 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the techniques form the original 3*P might still work, but a) they were a bit frustrating to figure out the first time and b) it's likely that all the details will be different
> 1787923955 417689 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Inputbrain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191141&oldid=163698 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+26) 10
> 1787923962 70241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Huesolangs14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=191142 5* 03Miui 5* (+164) 10Creating Huesolangs
> 1787923991 756363 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Unthree star programmer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191143&oldid=191123 5* 03Ais523 5* (+23) 10/* Interpreter in js */ the '' was being interpreted as wikimarkup, surround in nowiki (and in because leading-space markup probably doesn't work inside )
> 1787924016 280112 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Huesolangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191144&oldid=191142 5* 03Miui 5* (+15) 10Make progress
< 1787924034 74899 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, it probably says a lot about me that I considered adding [] to be the standard way to stringify things in JS
< 1787924042 189421 :amby!~ambylastn@46.162.147.147.dyn.plus.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
> 1787924042 666063 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Huesolangs14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191145&oldid=191144 5* 03Miui 5* (+0) 10Continue making progress
< 1787924047 695714 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(too used to restricted-character subsets where [] is much easier to produce than "")
> 1787924122 307425 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Unthree star programmer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191146&oldid=191143 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+2) 10/* Program flow */ parenthesize
> 1787924205 540566 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rube Goldberg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191147&oldid=47301 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+4030) 10this is a member of the ConstantLanguage() family, also describe the Code Golf Stack Exchange challenge in question, also add some more interpreters
> 1787924279 437561 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Eselangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191148&oldid=190999 5* 03Miui 5* (+32) 10not a dis just saying foo
< 1787924306 663137 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually you can very nearly compile 3*P into this (assuming you don't need to compile the I/O conventions), reserve tape elements that are x mod y as temporaries and use 1 commands to increment cell 3 to point to a fresh temporary, then 2 commands to increment the temporary to the value you want, then a 5 command to do one step of the emulated 3*P program
< 1787924330 649016 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Unthree star programmer => wow. it may be horrible, but at least there's a chance that it's horrible in some interesting way. unless it fails to be Turing-complete for some trivial reason.
< 1787924363 612072 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the hard part is to avoid collisions between the temporaries and the cells that are storing the values of the emulated 3*P program
< 1787924367 548904 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :are the memory cells assumed to all start from zero? and do the commands still run in an infinite loop?
< 1787924411 311769 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes to the infinite loop, the starting from zero isn't stated in the article but is specified by the interpreter
> 1787924415 146415 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:B jonas/List14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191149&oldid=187356 5* 03B jonas 5* (+54) 10
> 1787924446 928412 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABasic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191150&oldid=179364 5* 03None1 5* (-69) 10/* AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA */ Remove non-existent category
> 1787924490 206287 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191151&oldid=189017 5* 03None1 5* (-22) 10/* Implementations */ Remove non-existent category
< 1787924621 201537 :chloetax!~chloe@user/chloetax JOIN #esolangs chloetax :chloe
< 1787924651 463115 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :OK, so what you can do is to use 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 to increment cell 3 by 4 and use that to hit the temporaries, except that the first time you do it it increments it by 10 instead, so you use cells that are 1 or 2 mod 4 as the temporaries
< 1787924662 326327 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and that lets you use the cells that are 0 mod 4 as data storage
> 1787924699 362397 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Huesolangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191152&oldid=191145 5* 03Miui 5* (+177) 10
> 1787924740 456519 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Huesolangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191153&oldid=191152 5* 03Miui 5* (+39) 10
< 1787925082 262260 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh no, the 2s past the first don't work
> 1787925099 609790 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Huesolangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191154&oldid=191153 5* 03Miui 5* (+25) 10just saying foo
> 1787925107 570822 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Problemang Sikat14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191155&oldid=190895 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+1110) 10Add Rube Goldberg and ConstantLanguage()
> 1787925172 647896 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Eselangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191156&oldid=191148 5* 03Miui 5* (-2) 10Distinguish confusion foo
< 1787925173 699672 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: so you first increment *3 by 4 to get a fresh temporary address, at which point **3 should be 0, then you increment **3 as many times as four times the operand of the 3SP program that you're compiling from, then increment *****3 four times to emulate the 3SP instruction. you have to make sure that the cells that emulate 3SP cells (storing their value times 4) can't overlap with the cells that
< 1787925179 686964 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :store your temporary address, but the mod 4 can arrange that.
< 1787925193 954945 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: right
< 1787925211 255559 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the specific compiler I wrote above doesn't work because the initialisation routine doesn't work properly
< 1787925224 683930 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 works, though
< 1787925242 334206 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the emulating cells should be in addresses divisible by 4 so that they can start with value 0
< 1787925268 825180 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :temporaries are locations that are 1 or 4 mod 9, emulating cells are in addresses divisible by 9
< 1787925338 638197 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so cell 3 is neither
< 1787925361 190530 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :indeed, it can't be either
> 1787925472 384998 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rube Goldberg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191157&oldid=191147 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+1261) 10add some more languages
> 1787925620 642413 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Unthree star programmer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191158&oldid=191146 5* 03Ais523 5* (+2078) 10/* Computational class */ TCness proof
> 1787925641 277989 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Unthree star programmer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191159&oldid=191158 5* 03Ais523 5* (-12) 10TC cat
< 1787925779 378080 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the question is, is it possible that Unthree SP is easier to program than 3SP, because, assuming you still keep different roles in cells modulo some length, you can easily just write any constant value to a temporary to use as address, and then you still have a free choice of how many times you dereference from there
< 1787925902 783965 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, I think it's probably a bit easier
< 1787925948 398167 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although you can more or less do the same thing in 3*P too (you are limited to a maximum of three dereferences but you can form intentional indirections to waste some of your dereferences, letting you do two or one dereference if you prefer)
< 1787926014 923164 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :unthree is probably slightly easier to get the startup correct in (basically you need to ensure that the startup code doesn't end up doing anything bad when run not during startup, which is usually possible using parity / modular arithmetic tricks)
< 1787926027 132705 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, I think there might not be a way to actually use the extra flexibility of Unthree
< 1787926043 482678 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's more, who would need more than three dereferences? :-D
< 1787926066 195580 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(three is the minimum for TCness, with only two you eventually become incapable of meaningfully reading anything)
< 1787926079 816783 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well you probably won't be using more than five or six dereferences even in Unthree
> 1787926177 670784 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Unthree star programmer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191160&oldid=191159 5* 03Ais523 5* (+0) 10/* Computational class */ fix off-by-one error
< 1787926199 914824 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess you might ask whether it's turing-complete if the instructions are capped to no more than four stars
> 1787926232 632864 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07.:14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=191161 5* 03Miui 5* (+348) 10Create page
> 1787926268 875071 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07.:14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191162&oldid=191161 5* 03Miui 5* (-1) 10Fix outlink
> 1787926360 829639 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Unthree star programmer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191163&oldid=191160 5* 03B jonas 5* (+73) 10memory initial state
> 1787926365 220646 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Eselangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191164&oldid=191156 5* 03Miui 5* (+1) 10Distinguish confusion some more foo
< 1787926396 527422 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
< 1787926406 477627 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :isn't Unthree very similar to https://esolangs.org/wiki/I/D_machine ?
< 1787926428 176782 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :can't you compile I/D machine programs to Unthree?
< 1787926451 899852 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you can then that's a simpler proof that Unthree is Turing-complete
< 1787926556 69362 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the differences are that the register of the I/D machine is memory-mapped to address 3 in Unthree, and that the program is encoded in a different way, where in I/D machine you write the number of I instructions between D instructions, whereas in Unthree you write the number of D instruction between two I instructions
< 1787926630 263917 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can't easily do that compilation (although I considered it)
< 1787926653 603338 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the I/D machine lets you repeatedly dereference the data pointer in order to move it around
> 1787926661 699397 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:B jonas/List14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191165&oldid=191149 5* 03B jonas 5* (+61) 10Unthree star programmer
< 1787926665 371248 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i.e. it has an x = *x operation
< 1787926682 43759 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this doesn't correspond to anything in Unthree, which can't trivially copy data between cells
< 1787926713 140801 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm
< 1787926765 65215 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so is there a backwards compilation, from Unthree to I/D machine? you'd need a cell modulo pattern so that you can easily reset the I/D data pointer to 0 before each Unthree instruction
< 1787926768 263554 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the opposite compilation is probably easier, although still nontrivial as the I/D machine doesn't have an easy way to get the data pointer back to a known location
< 1787926830 22729 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :really the hard part of the I/D machine is that if you use the standard "zeroing track" method to get the data pointer home, it means that you need to leave memory with values pointing to the zeroing track, whereas to actually read it, you need to leave it with values pointing to things other than the zeroing track
< 1787926844 87268 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so your invariants for the state in which to leave memory get very complicated
> 1787926845 594011 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FlamePL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191166&oldid=190567 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+91) 10
< 1787926852 907741 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm
< 1787926868 462601 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(which is why I implemented cyclic tag, it has extremely restricted control flow which means that you can get away with a complicated data invariant)
> 1787926928 657383 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:B jonas/List14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191167&oldid=191165 5* 03B jonas 5* (-28) 10Unthree star programmer
> 1787926948 16741 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FlamePL/Python Interpreter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191168&oldid=190570 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+1498) 10
< 1787926989 379246 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, this indeed turned out to be a nice horrible idea, because not counting the IO conventions, the language is very easy to describe, and turns out to be a Turing-tarpit
> 1787927005 889783 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GangLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191169&oldid=190614 5* 03Miui 5* (+62) 10/* See also */ add some related links YO
< 1787927040 342627 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it certainly makes a change from the usual BF-like, Deadfish-like and example-based languages
> 1787927082 836199 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FlamePL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191170&oldid=191166 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+476) 10
< 1787927103 228426 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's *almost* canonical, except for the part where it's unclear if the starting address should really be 3
< 1787927131 258827 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :starting address 1 may be more canonical and probably not harder to program
< 1787927233 901708 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess that'd be called Unonestar programmer
> 1787927347 961856 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Simpl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191171&oldid=189920 5* 03Cordership 5* (+268) 10/* Syntax */
< 1787927371 402082 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zero would be interesting (and probably still TC, but annoying)
> 1787928517 678462 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Unthree star programmer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191172&oldid=191163 5* 03Cleverxia 5* (+11) 10/* null program */ fix program because specification changed
> 1787928845 476533 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Overshoot Dirac Delta14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=191173 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+1265) 10Incomplete description I have headache and cant write no more.
> 1787928888 770167 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Raiseafloppafan774114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191174&oldid=191079 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+907) 10
< 1787929447 837384 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:8c11:f25d:2d3e:6720 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1787929933 129198 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:8c11:f25d:2d3e:6720 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1787930378 188720 :Everything!~Everythin@212.90.63.223 QUIT :Quit: leaving
> 1787931881 582740 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Folat14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191175&oldid=190888 5* 03Ytebbit 5* (+5) 10Correcting the user and formatting
< 1787932182 109289 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1787932549 906233 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's a "Multiple Horse Theory" but why have I not heard of it before ;-) Surely this is evidence that it must be false.
< 1787933958 376045 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:8c11:f25d:2d3e:6720 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1787934034 250446 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:5d33:c50c:34ce:c7a5 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1787934467 81776 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Permission denied14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191176&oldid=186345 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (-24) 10use Template:CL
> 1787934666 541995 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191177&oldid=191067 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+768) 10/* Merging pages */ sussy question
> 1787934760 473720 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191178&oldid=191177 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+1) 10/* Merging pages */ typo
> 1787936098 168314 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191179&oldid=191178 5* 03Corbin 5* (+937) 10/* Merging pages */ We find patterns.
< 1787936632 1354 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :good morning
> 1787936665 844102 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:2026 topicality proposal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191180&oldid=191179 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+316) 10/* Merging pages */ that makes a lot of sense, thanks!
> 1787936738 879266 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Trivial deadfish substitution14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191181&oldid=189362 5* 03Corbin 5* (+148) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/189362|189362]] by [[Special:Contributions/None1|None1]] ([[User talk:None1|talk]]): No, I think that this appears to be a real variation. The target page has a table showing how it is a four-command TDS!
> 1787936941 816555 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Trivial deadfish substitution14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191182&oldid=191181 5* 03Corbin 5* (+356) 10/* Examples */ Explain variations better. This is likely what provoked the earlier removal of from the table.
> 1787937016 473387 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Template:TDS14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=191183 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+146) 10mirroring [[Template:CL]]
> 1787937062 221688 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pete mort14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191184&oldid=189298 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (-48) 10[[Template:TDS]]
> 1787937101 575853 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07F!--14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191185&oldid=189339 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (-79) 10[[Template:TDS]]
> 1787937134 14566 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XKCD Random Number14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191186&oldid=191068 5* 03Corbin 5* (+111) 10Identify a constant language.
< 1787937146 191536 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:5d33:c50c:34ce:c7a5 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1787937199 221441 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191187&oldid=174659 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+95) 10[[Template:TDS]]
> 1787937238 378895 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XKCD Random Number14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191188&oldid=191186 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (-33) 10
> 1787937255 459852 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Template:TDS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191189&oldid=191183 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+0) 10
< 1787937382 71807 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 JOIN #esolangs DOS_User :[https://web.libera.chat] DOS_User_webchat
< 1787937437 591739 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 QUIT :Client Quit
> 1787937736 732657 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Raiseafloppafan774114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191190&oldid=190454 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+330) 10/* Oh yeah and this */ yes, you can.
> 1787937863 902314 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Overshoot Dirac Delta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191191&oldid=191173 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+304) 10
< 1787937895 780993 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:5d33:c50c:34ce:c7a5 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1787938262 124554 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Raiseafloppafan7741/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191192&oldid=190019 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+194) 10/* mysignature */
> 1787938364 765858 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:ChuckEsoteric0814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191193&oldid=191137 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+12) 10/* 2026 */
> 1787938466 218444 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Raiseafloppafan7741/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191194&oldid=191192 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+319) 10/* mysignature */
> 1787938834 28786 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Raiseafloppafan7741/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191195&oldid=191194 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+226) 10/* did you know that \pi e is delicious */
> 1787940422 358381 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Overshoot Dirac Delta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191196&oldid=191191 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+404) 10still WIP
< 1787940439 720680 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:5d33:c50c:34ce:c7a5 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1787942020 201890 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: if a language has extra commands, I'm not convinced it's a trivial substitutino
< 1787942059 963463 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I'm reminded of the time when, after inventing the I/D machine, I searched through BF derivatives to find one that had both commands already)
< 1787942082 117995 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:5d33:c50c:34ce:c7a5 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1787942090 340355 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Hence why we're saying that a variation on that language, not the original language itself, gives the substitution. Feel free to improve the wording if it doesn't communicate that.
< 1787942155 317392 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Going in the other direction, embedding deadfish into those languages, is certainly trivial. So the TDS merely highlights the "copy" of deadfish sitting inside them.
< 1787942182 8847 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :now I'm wondering what the tarpittiest way is to make a Deadfish-like language TC
< 1787942211 581846 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think, to me, the defining factor that makes a language Deadfish-like is that it has one integer variable and no control flow
< 1787942218 369444 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it seems quite difficult to make a TC language out of that
< 1787942283 122667 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah. It's just an encoding. Compressibility is kind of interesting.
< 1787942336 128668 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm thinking more along the lines of "put it in an implicit loop and define a command set that makes that TC somehow", but increment/decrement/square clearly isn't enough
< 1787942394 449627 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :We could remove all of the variations from TDS too. I wouldn't really mind too much. It seemed though that folks contributing to [[deadfish]] wanted to highlight how those specific variations mapped to deadfish, and a TDS happens to completely summarize those relationships.
< 1787942415 333867 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*each of those relationships is completely summarized by a TDS. Thanks English.
< 1787942425 628092 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :one thing I've noticed over the years is that although statements along the lines of "all Turing-complete languages can X" (where X is something that some Turing-implementable program can do) are tautologies, X = "implement a lookup table" is an extremely good guideline for a direction to try to prove TCness in
< 1787942450 308350 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and Deadfish is a long way away from being able to implement a lookup table
< 1787942567 356852 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess one way of looking at it is that a lookup table plus a loop plus some arithmetic operation that can operate in a meaningfully unbounded way tends to go TC pretty much by accident
> 1787943883 228622 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07IF UPPERCASE KEYWORDS == ESOTERIC THEN DIE ELSE DIE END14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=191197 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+6052) 10Make a page for whatever the hell you'd consider this monstrosity as.
> 1787944082 954008 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07IF UPPERCASE KEYWORDS == ESOTERIC THEN DIE ELSE DIE END14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191198&oldid=191197 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+8) 10/* Computational class */ wrong name idiot
> 1787944208 847465 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Raiseafloppafan774114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191199&oldid=191174 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+156) 10/* 2025-2026 - flop era */ add IF UPPERCASE KEYWORDS == ESOTERIC THEN DIE ELSE DIE END
< 1787944305 313437 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :cu
> 1787944396 246824 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Raiseafloppafan774114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191200&oldid=191199 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+271) 10/* My favorite esolangs that I made/worked on */ add the aforementioned monstrosity
> 1787944518 373607 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Raiseafloppafan774114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191201&oldid=191200 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+0) 10/* my esolangs */ update the counter, it's only fitting for a counter machine
> 1787944890 675239 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/xml maybe14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191202&oldid=170069 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+24) 10fix line spacing
< 1787944934 897777 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :^ I like how this draft looks
< 1787944980 902344 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thematic esolangs like this aren't alike what I would probably make today, it'd be fun to go back and flesh it out more
< 1787944993 201475 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh, is that string written in unary-coded decimal?
< 1787945018 607243 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah
< 1787945028 386065 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think
< 1787945062 669562 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :now I'm wondering what the best base for unary-coded base n is
< 1787945252 947789 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :length-per-digit-wise it'd be binary since larger bases would require longer unary for the digits
< 1787945280 775246 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it probably would be negligible for the first few bases as encoding being shorter would win out first
< 1787945302 594651 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, let's say we have a bijective encoding, e.g. the digits of binary are 1 and 2 rather than 0 and 1
< 1787945320 888612 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(good both because it's shorter and because you don't have to figure out how to encode 0)
< 1787945387 782400 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :bases 2 and 4 are the easiest to directly compare, pairs of digits in base 2 are 1/1/, 1/11/, 11/1/, or 11/11, whereas a single digit in base 4 is 1/, 11/, 111/, or 1111/
< 1787945394 621440 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and base 4 is shorter or tied in all four cases
< 1787945414 257601 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's what I figured
< 1787945416 192543 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: would you allow / for 0?
< 1787945416 721782 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :at a guess i would say the optimum is probably base e, which means likely 3 in practice as it's the nearest integer
< 1787945459 128631 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: you could do (or just treat the / as containing an implicit 1), so //, /1/, 1//, 1/1/ versus /, 1/, 11/, 111/, looks to be the same tradeoff
< 1787945473 782281 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :writing a test for this
< 1787945517 617600 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> maximum [(log x/(1+x), x) | x <- [1..10]] -- (1+x)/2 being the average length of a digit if you use /, 1/, 11/ etc.
< 1787945518 949269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : (0.2772588722239781,4.0)
< 1787945532 260463 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> maximum [(log x/(3+x), x) | x <- [1..10]] -- (3+x)/2 being the average length of a digit if you use 1/, 11/, 111/ etc.
< 1787945533 607188 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : (0.20117973905426254,5.0)
< 1787945545 967838 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah
< 1787945555 217803 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: e would maximize log x/x
> 1787945732 577770 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07IF UPPERCASE KEYWORDS == ESOTERIC THEN DIE ELSE DIE END14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191203&oldid=191198 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+1317) 10/* Examples */ Add some examples
> 1787945829 592096 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07IF UPPERCASE KEYWORDS == ESOTERIC THEN DIE ELSE DIE END14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191204&oldid=191203 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (-38) 10remove unusable for programming category
< 1787945885 910727 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :aadenboy: oh and the answer will probably be different if you target a specific small-ish range (like ASCII codes)
< 1787945930 430012 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh. "double nop is a 0" works I guess
< 1787945964 11525 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :aadenboy: alternatively, you could allow 10 as a digit value. So instead of 70, you'd use 6A
< 1787945999 977332 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :interesting
< 1787946003 139448 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(no big difference overall, just perhaps slightly more regular)
> 1787946005 849403 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07IF UPPERCASE KEYWORDS == ESOTERIC THEN DIE ELSE DIE END14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191205&oldid=191204 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+158) 10/* A+B Problem */ Add support for negative numbers
> 1787946042 547121 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07IF UPPERCASE KEYWORDS == ESOTERIC THEN DIE ELSE DIE END14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191206&oldid=191205 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+21) 10/* A+B Problem */
> 1787946267 900954 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/Unary-encoded bases14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=191207 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+24870) 10Created page with "{| class="wikitable" ! Number !! 2 !! 3 !! 4 !! 5 !! 6 !! 7 !! 8 !! 9 !! 10 !! 11 !! 12 !! 13 !! 14 !! 15 !! 16 !! 17 !! 18 !! 19 !! 20 !! 21 !! 22 !! 23 !! 24 |- ! 0 |0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0 |- ! 1
< 1787946327 360803 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yep, base 3 performs the best
< 1787946363 73927 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 2, 8, ...
< 1787946416 738535 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> maximum [(log x/(2+x), x) | x <- [1..10]] -- (2+x)/2 being the average length of a digit if you use //, 1/, 11/ etc.
< 1787946418 437072 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : (0.23104906018664842,4.0)
< 1787946465 818776 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :...
< 1787946470 709736 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:5d33:c50c:34ce:c7a5 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1787946508 918285 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> maximum [(log x/((1+x)/2 + 1/x), x) | x <- [1..10]] -- (1+x)/2 + 1/x being the average length of a digit if you use //, 1/, 11/ etc.
< 1787946510 184407 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : (0.504107040407233,4.0)
< 1787946515 243634 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arithmetic is hard :P
< 1787946556 518120 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :base 2 becomes best using //, 1/, ...
< 1787946561 928686 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :aadenboy: anyway I *think* base 4 should be slightly better for large numbers
< 1787946575 553366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> maximum [(log x/((1+x)/2 + 1/x), x) | x <- [3,4]]
< 1787946576 923736 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : (0.504107040407233,4.0)
< 1787946581 861573 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :grr
< 1787946584 871012 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> [(log x/((1+x)/2 + 1/x), x) | x <- [3,4]]
< 1787946586 149529 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : [(0.47083383800061845,3.0),(0.504107040407233,4.0)]
< 1787946612 792392 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :running a test to 1 mil
< 1787946661 708889 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: ah, base 4 *is* best now
< 1787946668 976413 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Admittedly the difference between 0.47 and 0.50 is not super large. (This measures... asymptotic base-e "bits" per character)
< 1787946690 166572 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ACTION dropped some constant factors
> 1787946695 278011 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/Unary-encoded bases14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191208&oldid=191207 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+681) 10
< 1787946789 823099 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with //, 1/ it's base 2 that's best
< 1787947112 657402 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm, are you sure?
< 1787947147 617602 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I believe I'm doing it correctly. the only difference between 0-as-empty and bijective is the digits are one longer in unary, right?
< 1787947169 922549 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :at least in this context
< 1787947485 907245 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :good example would be 16; 10000 is 1//// for one digit in the former, 11/1/1/1/1 for six digits in the latter
> 1787947549 244525 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/Unary-encoded bases14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191209&oldid=191208 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (-3902) 10
> 1787947571 161298 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/Unary-encoded bases14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191210&oldid=191209 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+34) 10
> 1787947635 159576 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/Unary-encoded bases14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191211&oldid=191210 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (-11) 10
< 1787947698 136066 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :aadenboy: but your table has 1//// at length 1?
< 1787947735 577716 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the delimiter would be irrelevant, no?
< 1787947749 149537 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, the delimiter tells you which digit is which
< 1787947761 339736 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or how many digits there are
< 1787947853 416421 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> maximum [(log x/(x-1), x) | x <- [2..10]] -- ambiguity issues aside, the average length of "","1",... would be (x-1)/2
< 1787947854 621368 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : (0.6931471805599453,2.0)
< 1787947878 410428 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so yeah, the theory agrees that base 2 comes out on top under this measure
< 1787947894 407620 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I *think* you're off by one in both tables
< 1787947952 624967 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(per digit)
> 1787948002 373371 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/Unary-encoded bases14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191212&oldid=191211 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+1135) 10fix stats
< 1787948097 912693 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :4 and 5 are best in 0-as-empty and bijective respectively now, at least up to 1 million
< 1787948220 795652 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, there's more. bijective encoding would encode 15 in base 2 as 1111 (cost: 8) and 16 in base 2 as 1112 (cost: 9). So the base conversion is off. This doesn't affect asymptotics.
< 1787948307 562688 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hah gotta redo my bijective conversion then
< 1787948355 990978 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> let cost b 0 = 0; cost b n | (n,d) <- (n-1) `divMod` b = d+2 + cost b n in (cost 2 15, cost 2 16)
< 1787948357 254045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : (8,9)
< 1787948484 300905 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :aadenboy: and for the bottom tables, why are you dividing by 100 instead of 10^6 :)
< 1787948508 412652 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I forgot to update the number xd
< 1787948527 353215 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :didn't bother separating out values, which I should do
< 1787948885 780448 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:5d33:c50c:34ce:c7a5 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1787949427 359279 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wouldn't those be 7 and 8
> 1787949716 706199 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/Unary-encoded bases14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191213&oldid=191212 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (-264) 10
< 1787950054 668402 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1787950319 300123 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :aadenboy: Ah for simplicity I always have a trailing separator.
< 1787950544 899264 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :aadenboy: That is, I map digits 1,2,... to the strings 1/, 11/, ...; 15 is encodes as 1/1/1/1/. This is actually kind of important for 0 mapping to the empty string to fit into the same scheme.
> 1787950705 827185 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/Unary-encoded bases14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191214&oldid=191213 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+5) 10
< 1787950821 17962 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Imagine the following language. The machine has a tape of bits, initialized to all zero, plus a single condition flag. The program is a sequence of instructions that runs in an infinite loop. There are two unconditional instructions: unconditionally move head right, unconditionally set the condition flag. There are five conditional instructions that behave like nops if the condition flag is clear: move
< 1787950827 25342 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :left, move right, clear condition if symbol under head is zero, clear condition if symbol under head is one, invert symbol under head. This is enough to simulate a two-symbol Turing-machine that has just one state but can test and modify multiple symbols around its head, which can simulate any Turing-machine, it just has to write its state to the tape then re-read it between every simulated instruction.
< 1787950833 32716 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :This is seven instructions, but you can probably tarpitify it to just six or five.
< 1787950962 121155 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Now for ais523's question, this but the tape is stored as a rational with power of two denominator in the deadfish-like accumulator. If you wish you can even store the condition flag by twos' complementing the number, so most instructions are skipped if the deadfish accumulator is negative.
< 1787950990 566708 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, it's probably not a very good answer, but it's not easy to be Turing-complete with just one number as mutable state.
> 1787951167 376422 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191215&oldid=190891 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+108) 10add [[User:Aadenboy/Unary-encoded bases]]
> 1787951182 541836 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy/randomuserpage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191216&oldid=187347 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+38) 10add [[User:Aadenboy/Unary-encoded bases]]
< 1787951386 728900 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Hmm that feels fairly close to a generalized Collatz function.
< 1787951543 932673 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I don't know, being able to store the left side of the tape in the fraction bits feels kind of cheating
< 1787951567 684618 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :when you can still test the unit bit
< 1787951664 697096 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah I'm suggesting generalized Collatz as a somewhat cleaner mechanism to accomplish TC-ness, with similar features: operations depend on digits in some base n representation of the data
< 1787951715 555779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess it'd be closer to generalized collatz if you store data only in bits at even positions, so that you can directly read the sign from any bit at a positive odd position, and then all the conditions are just the integer part modulo 4
< 1787951899 266331 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but generalized Collatz, or Fractran, or something like that, that may be a better answer to ais523's question
< 1787951910 551025 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because Fractran stores only integers in the Deadfish accumulator
< 1787951951 437756 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Or, hmm. Just Minksky directly? The operation would be "try to divide by n; if successful, multiply by m", and you'd set aside prime factors for each state, and for the counters. The fixed loop will work fine because the order of the state transition tests doesn't matter.
< 1787952014 898908 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that might work
< 1787952036 309949 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:5d33:c50c:34ce:c7a5 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1787952068 207482 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm. *Almost* doesn't matter. We need to be careful with tests for (non-)zero. Probably have an auxiliary state for each of those.
< 1787952083 895253 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the cop-out answer is that you have just two instructions, one is deadfish i to increment the accumulator, the other runs the program in the accumulator in some other tarpit language then terminates
< 1787952097 233587 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, that is strongly Fractran flavored.
< 1787952158 674486 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah it's just that inc and dec are awful operations if you want to operate on and preserve unbounded data
< 1787952218 431401 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and we're only allowed that one integer variable
< 1787952278 621756 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess the type wasn't specified
> 1787952296 529532 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Color Dialog14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191217&oldid=189324 5* 03Miui 5* (+219) 10/* Cat */ imlplement color scheme for cat program
< 1787952302 696343 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe make it a Gaussian integer? (aka two counters)
> 1787954877 877579 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Color Dialog14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191218&oldid=191217 5* 03Miui 5* (+2562) 10/* Collatz function */ implement color scheme in collatz function example
< 1787955209 669060 :inhahe!~inhahe@user/inhahe QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1787955390 129998 :inhahe!~inhahe@user/inhahe JOIN #esolangs inhahe :exalumen.blog - iyaelsorai.wordpress.com
> 1787955679 471247 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Color Dialog14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191219&oldid=191218 5* 03Miui 5* (+824) 10/* Truth machine */ implemented color scheme for truth machine example
> 1787956972 699123 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07My-new-esolang.txt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191220&oldid=137504 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+142) 10
> 1787956986 766555 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07My-new-esolang.txt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191221&oldid=191220 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+1) 10
> 1787957202 983585 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Color Dialog14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191222&oldid=191219 5* 03Miui 5* (+6962) 10/* Examples */ implement color scheme for the rest of the examples
> 1787958651 792058 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XKCD Random Number14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191223&oldid=191188 5* 03Miui 5* (+545) 10/* Color Dialog */
> 1787960100 707075 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Miui 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Piet++XKCD2112.png10]]"
> 1787960117 172409 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XKCD Random Number14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191225&oldid=191223 5* 03Miui 5* (+129) 10/* Piet++ */
> 1787960142 118801 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XKCD Random Number14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191226&oldid=191225 5* 03Miui 5* (-2) 10/* Piet++ */
> 1787960656 961269 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 03Miui 5* 10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:Piet++XKCD2112.png10]]": utilize extended palette. The language may chance in the future, in which case the first upload should still work due to using the original Piet color specification.
> 1787960720 420145 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XKCD Random Number14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191228&oldid=191226 5* 03Miui 5* (+1) 10/* Piet++ */ inline + add break for continuity
> 1787960838 608033 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XKCD Random Number14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=191229&oldid=191228 5* 03Miui 5* (+0) 10/* Implementations */ left-align broke it, keeping line break and reverting to none align