00:03:35 [[Pgmpietoncracklang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192117&oldid=192070 * Miui * (+50) /* See also */ move to yeah 00:03:49 [[Pgmpietoncracklang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192118&oldid=192117 * Miui * (-2) /* See also */ fix link 00:04:33 [[Pgmpietoncracklang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192119&oldid=192118 * Miui * (+0) move to external 00:04:47 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 00:05:08 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:05:28 [[Pgmpietonracklang/Pgmpietonracklang+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192120&oldid=192068 * Miui * (-3261) Blanked the page 00:06:06 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 00:46:21 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 01:04:45 [[Special:Log/move]] move * MarkFan8901 * moved [[Turing Completeness Proof of Leafuck]] to [[Leafuck/Proof of Turing completeness]]: sub-page for cleanliness 01:06:31 [[Leafuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192123&oldid=185361 * MarkFan8901 * (+0) 01:08:53 [[Leafuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192124&oldid=192123 * MarkFan8901 * (-1) no comma 01:11:55 [[Rotary]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192125&oldid=153795 * MarkFan8901 * (-20) fix bf spelling and change Computational class/Turing-completeness to just Computational class 02:05:51 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:12:36 [[User:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192126&oldid=191987 * Miui * (+299) /* personal esopages */ just some miscellaneous lost kingdom fandom activities (added article mirror + archive backup) 02:36:06 [[User:Miui]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192127&oldid=192126 * Miui * (-34) /* personal esopages */ fixed archive link (was previously a screenshot) 03:07:41 [[Noisychicken]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192128&oldid=192077 * FordsTheodore * (+54) 03:20:09 [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192129&oldid=191664 * Miui * (+16) /* Ideas for Names */ moved previous name idea (i think i messed up the flow of dialog from Yoyolin) + added 04:07:54 [[Noisychicken]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192130&oldid=192128 * FordsTheodore * (+863) add N. interpreter 04:22:16 goodnight 04:48:34 [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192131&oldid=192129 * Miui * (+753) /* General Ideas */ add language idea based on rule 30 sonnet 30 05:13:10 -!- A_Dragon has changed nick to gAy_Dragon. 05:17:18 [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192132&oldid=190536 * Miui * (+25) // Example-based languages \n; Pgmpietoncracklang ; // 05:32:03 the new one is 2020-03 per https://xkcd.com/2459/ 05:42:58 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:49:50 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 05:57:57 [[Talk:VoidPtr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192133&oldid=192112 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+251) 06:37:39 -!- MarkFan8901 has joined. 06:37:50 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Mario_Maker_Calculator_is_not_Turing-complete this is a really funny page 06:39:06 -!- potter has quit (Quit: Should be back momentarily). 06:39:42 it dramatically sets up a bunch of stuff before it just goes "it cant loop so it cant be tc" 06:39:45 -!- potter has joined. 06:40:38 -!- MarkFan8901 has quit (Client Quit). 06:42:18 -!- MarkFan8901 has joined. 06:42:20 oh also 06:42:24 something about proof pages 06:42:44 should they be subpages of the langauge in question (if theyre about one)? 06:42:49 or should they be their own separate pages 06:43:13 cuz Category:Proofs seems to be split pretty evenly between them 06:43:35 personally we think they should be subpages 06:58:07 [[-/Turing-completeness proof]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192134&oldid=192102 * Dragoneater67 * (+12) moral of the story: dont edit pages @ 2am 07:03:12 -!- MarkFan8901 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 07:12:04 -!- raiseafloppafan has joined. 07:12:34 -!- tromp has joined. 07:12:45 -!- MarkFan8901 has joined. 07:16:54 fungot: 07:16:54 MarkFan8901: stop bleeding!) answers for ml at http://www.hprog.org/ fnord) dates back to the argument 07:17:11 fnord) seems to be a common token with fungot 07:17:11 MarkFan8901: linux would probably choke and gag and blow chunks long before reaching two million threads, whereas gambit would run just fnord has been accepted. 07:17:25 wtf 07:17:27 actually cogent sentence 07:17:39 also "blow chunks" :sob: 07:19:22 It's mostly cosmetic, isn't it? Proof_that_Brainfuck_is_Turing_Complete is unlikely to clash with another esolang. 07:19:57 Though as a matter of organization I'd prefer subpages. That may be programmer minded... we love hierarchical namespaces. 07:20:05 well on the other hand having it be a subpage would *definitely* help not clash with another esolang 07:20:13 also true 07:21:16 also also we are thinking about adding discussion to the topicality proposal 07:21:32 specifically we wanna develop our "containers for raw ideas" argument more 07:21:54 [[GangLang]] is a perfect example of what we're talking about 07:22:30 nothing about the actual language itself really matters, the point is that its a language based around gang talk 07:23:12 it could be a c-like or lisp or a forth-like and none of that would meaningfully change its identity 07:23:25 but there's two caveats we have in mind with that point 07:25:42 firstly it doesnt account for complete nonsense 07:25:51 shit where you dont even know where they really got the idea from 07:26:31 one-up: shit where you don't even know whether there's an idea in there 07:26:38 ye 07:27:05 but secondly, it would also step on the toes of esolangs which are made specifically around some real thing as a premise 07:28:22 [[Inflexión]] would be a great example of this if it weren't ai generated 07:28:35 (The wiki has a slop problem (some LLM, some not, the phenomenon isn't new; the volume has increased though). It's very easy to acknowledge but actually stomping down on it would require serious sustained effort.) 07:28:41 actually creating a language based off a natural language 07:28:53 int-e: yea 07:29:00 we are specifically trying to narrow down what 'slop' is 07:29:52 it also wouldnt be hard to imagine how you could create a language based off thinking about how, say, clocks work 07:30:01 create an interesting* language 07:30:35 maybe it'd be a language for analog computers ;D 07:30:36 but you could also just make a slop shit page themed around clocks 07:30:50 inhale: ye see 07:31:03 there's really interesting stuff you could do with that idea even just saying it 07:31:12 and that would be working backwards from the premise 07:31:31 Well... tricky, because it's hardly objective. I'm mostly interested in semantics. So any page that's just a syntax for something (either borrowing an existing semantics or not specifying one at all, just putting a few examples) is boring to me. But I can see how if you're more linguistically inclined, a novel vocabulary might actually be stimulating. 07:31:55 "it" being what slop is 07:32:09 yes we are obsessed with being able to define things precisely 07:32:15 especially social ones 07:33:43 the reason why it tends to be so difficult is because it takes serious critical analysis to not only understand and articulate what patterns you see, but also why you see them and why you feel the way you do about them 07:33:51 which we love doing just by itself 07:34:35 to an extent, its politics, and like any good politics you need to be vulnerable with what you say 07:34:40 but anyways 07:35:19 crucially, 'working backwards from a premise' is not what we're trying to point out when we say "containers for raw ideas" 07:35:25 which means we're trying to get at something else 07:35:34 with it* 07:36:06 oh another thing 07:36:27 we saw glimmers of something very interesting when ais started talking about constant languages 07:36:40 you guys have probably seen them but pretend you haven't so we can explain them 07:37:21 constant languages are basically just languages in which every program has the same semantics 07:38:14 typically the 'semantics' in question is just the language outputting some string 07:39:00 which has a property thats only a little interesting 07:39:13 that every constant language has a quine, where the quine is simply the output of the constant language 07:40:04 this leads to quine-preventing constant languages, which have constant semantics *except* when fed its own output 07:40:20 in which case it outputs something else 07:40:37 so * -> a, but a -> b 07:40:57 that's where the canon about constant languages stop to our knowledge 07:41:05 [[-/Turing-completeness proof]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192135&oldid=192134 * Dragoneater67 * (+40) yet again, dont edit pages @ 2am 07:41:12 but ais started wondering about cyclic quines 07:41:24 as in, a -> b -> c -> a 07:42:08 in which a program outputs another program which outputs the first program 07:42:46 he and some others (including us) extrapolated on this idea a bit before putting it back down 07:42:49 Those can be interesting, but there's a boring generic approach where you just modify a counter in each step of the cycle. 07:43:10 ye they *can* be interesting 07:43:14 Related, but also very different: https://github.com/mame/quine-relay 07:43:24 here's the weird part 07:43:48 that's genuine creativity and ingenuity having come from what's supposed to be a slop concept 07:44:18 we breathed life into something that should have been just another lazy contribution to the wiki 07:44:25 well only a tiny little bit, but still 07:44:36 (The thing about the quine relay is that one language can quote for several subsequent languages at once. So including languages for which quines are a bit tricky (say, Brainfuck) becomes trivial.) 07:45:34 [[-/Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192136&oldid=192135 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-16) /* Example */ generalize cuz why not lmao. think it makes sense. 07:45:39 (trivial: you just have to figure out how to print an arbtirary string) 07:45:59 ye 07:46:43 the track we were following was that the concept of having quines lead to different quines sounded a lot like edges to nodes on a graph 07:47:19 and we speculated that perhaps some tweaking of how it worked could lead to a tc system 07:47:27 or at least something with a surprising amount of power 07:47:50 but anyways 07:48:05 actually having typed that out we dont remember what our point originally was 07:48:43 we were trying to make it a caveat to the idea that slop inherently has zero/minimal value, but like 07:48:49 thats not true 07:49:32 we dont think it *could* be true that something has NO meaning or potential whatsoever relative to esolanging 07:49:52 which makes it just a little harder to pinpoint topicality 07:50:14 actually here's an idea: 07:50:24 *they* didnt recognize that value 07:50:32 Isn't the lack of any substance part of the definition of "slop"? 07:51:09 it's a good heuristic, but you can still get some great value out of slop if you pay enough attention 07:51:11 like uhh hold on 07:51:21 [[-/Turing-completeness proof]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192137&oldid=192136 * Dragoneater67 * (-51) /* Example */ remove redundant signal handlers 07:52:10 https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=B2pI5bB-kKg the mv for this song is very much based on typical tiktok slop, but it is genuinely artistic 07:52:50 it is relatively easy to 'recover' good ideas from slop when you're creative enough 07:53:20 but anyways 07:54:01 what we were gonna follow "they dont recognize that value" up with was that its because they dont actually care about the things they're making 07:54:05 [[VoidPtr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192138&oldid=192116 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-110) since the BF interpreter AINT TC, theres currently no proof of TC'ness, so I removed the categories and such. 07:54:55 actually it kinda feels like we're going in circles trying to elaborate on that point 07:55:17 cuz it just naturally leads to 'it's low effort', which is what we're trying to define in the first place 08:00:38 oh something about the word slop 08:00:45 its definition is also typically a heuristic 08:01:14 there are things you can define cleanly which also fit cleanly into it, the best example being content farms 08:01:47 but elaborating further without any real analysis is typically fruitless 08:02:02 and is we think why so many people throw their hands up and say its subjective at that point 08:02:34 we're getting too waxy we need to calm down and focus on what we were talking about again 08:10:06 -!- potter has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:10:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 275 seconds). 08:12:57 something we're also heavily considering is not including stuff that's just, not good 08:13:28 like languages which are only uninteresting or don't have a lot going for them 08:14:33 -!- potter has joined. 08:16:38 Hi 08:19:17 -!- potter has quit (Excess Flood). 08:20:09 -!- potter has joined. 08:21:52 [[-/Turing-completeness proof]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192139&oldid=192137 * Dragoneater67 * (+0) /* Example */ fix bug 08:26:23 -!- raiseafloppafan has quit (Quit: Client closed). 08:27:13 -!- Yayimheretoo has joined. 08:37:41 we feel like having a 'no wiki-gaming' rule might also help cut a lot of the off topic stuff 08:38:31 cuz theres a part in the discussion on the wiki where someone mentions theyve seen accs who (maybe not directly, but essentially) state that as an explicit goal 08:39:37 which can pretty elegantly explain why a lot of the nonsensical pages/edits on the wiki are like that 08:40:32 another wiki we're very loosely a part of had an issue with someone coming along and wiki gaming the fuck out of it 08:41:06 and a lot of the patterns of behavior they had + their effect on the wiki are comparable to that of what we see on esolangs rn 08:41:18 though a big difference is it was one person on an already pretty dead wiki 08:41:40 + they didnt make that many pages, their baloney was mainly confined to editing 08:42:01 which is kinda the opposite of whats currently happening (correct us if we're wrong) 08:44:08 thoughts on this fungot 08:44:21 fungot: 08:44:24 psst 08:44:25 Hey 08:44:25 wake up 08:44:26 [[Talk:VoidPtr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192140&oldid=192133 * Miui * (+555) 08:44:43 fungot wake up BITCH. 08:45:16 ok MarkFan8901 calm down a bit? 08:45:23 wait 08:45:26 wait no 08:45:29 fuck ignore that 08:45:30 lmao 08:45:31 wow 08:45:32 its oki 08:45:43 #FreeFungot 08:45:50 i forgot fungot is a bot lmao 08:45:50 Yayimheretoo: but foxfire fixed it. now. :) 08:45:51 damn 08:45:55 there we go 08:46:03 funny 08:46:06 I don't condone cussing out bots, fwiw. 08:46:10 +fungot: did they? 08:46:10 Yayimheretoo: but i did implement floor. though you mostly fnord on what i said 08:46:25 +fungot: fnord? 08:46:25 Yayimheretoo: to be even shining a bit, but the final summary says 200 lines exactly. e-mailing now. that thing. 08:46:33 lmao 08:46:39 man fnord was such a huge meme it left a dent in fungots brain 08:46:39 MarkFan8901: if you understood what i meant 08:47:24 MarkFan8901: never heard of it lmao 08:47:33 fungot: we didnt 08:47:33 Yayimheretoo: that's used for any data structure 08:47:39 fungot Has a rate limit of sorts. Not sure about the details, it might just be counting up so the same user can't trigger it more than 3 times in a row or something. 08:47:39 int-e: for example, with my little sister in 2005 or so 08:47:53 we looked fnord up one time 08:48:01 thats the funniest response to that 08:48:03 apparently its from a dystopian sci fi novel 08:48:24 "fungot has a rate limit of sorts [...]" "for example, with my little sister [...]" 08:48:24 Yayimheretoo: or rather an are my initials 08:48:26 lmao 08:48:28 where people are trained for the word to be impercievable 08:48:35 damn 08:48:44 and where viewing it would cause a feeling of fear 08:49:15 also the little sister comment by fungot is fucking hilarious 08:49:16 MarkFan8901: even 19% in some experiments. 08:49:33 MarkFan8901: yea lol 08:49:36 yayimheretoo did you see some of the messages we got out of fungot a bit earlier 08:49:37 MarkFan8901: nasa assigned three separate teams to investigate the embarrassing, us 125 million debacle and determine its cause. preliminary public statements faulted a fnord between the fnord barrier. most schemes off-handedly mention which srfis they support and don't really long for what it does 08:49:43 "fnord" is what fungot (or rather, I think, the model generator behind it) uses as a replacement for very uncommon words. 08:49:50 o 08:49:53 MarkFan8901: sadly not lol 08:50:10 >linux would probably choke and gag and blow chunks long before reaching two million threads, whereas gambit would run just fnord has been accepted. 08:50:19 "nasa assigned three separate teams to investigate the embarrassing us" 08:50:38 MarkFan8901: wow 08:50:50 but it is true *Vsauce noises* 08:50:52 one of the most cogent sentences we've heard come out of fungot 08:50:52 MarkFan8901: er the embed tag open through misc files. 08:50:54 ye 08:51:01 wonder what happens if fungot says its own name 08:51:01 MarkFan8901: you wouldn't be directed to login page the wireless connection i'm using has unicode strings but they're completely disjoint from normal strings which makes them almost useless 08:51:03 does it reply to itself 08:51:11 hmmmmm 08:51:18 could there theoretically be an infinite loop of it talking to itself 08:51:18 MarkFan8901: no 08:51:27 sad lmao 08:51:27 damn 08:51:32 ya we felt like there would be a safe guard against that 08:51:46 the IRC protocol doesn't echo your own channel messages back to you 08:51:48 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CDEV * New user account 08:51:52 ahh 08:51:56 it can, in ircv3 08:51:56 which is helpful for this particular scenario 08:52:05 [[Talk:VoidPtr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192141&oldid=192140 * Dragoneater67 * (-555) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/192140|192140]] by [[Special:Contributions/Miui|Miui]] ([[User talk:Miui|talk]]) revert vandalism 08:52:27 [[Talk:VoidPtr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192142&oldid=192141 * Miui * (+555) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/192141|192141]] by [[Special:Contributions/Dragoneater67|Dragoneater67]] ([[User talk:Dragoneater67|talk]]) 08:52:39 Also the bots here are supposed to ignore the other bots. We have had bot loops... unless the bot owners are around they get old very rapidly. 08:52:58 hmh 08:53:42 oh uh something about miui 08:54:16 earlier we pinged ais about how their page had the name of a porn star slathered on it 08:54:31 and that the description of them misled us to think they were some mexican activist 08:54:38 but he said it could have been a name collision 08:54:40 However 08:54:46 Or a channel op I guess. (So right now would be fine but I tend to wanter off for lengths of time, and I don't know who else would step in right now.) 08:55:01 MarkFan8901: how what huh... where? I haven't seen that 08:55:08 int-e: Nice typos, man. 08:55:35 yayimheretoo: it's present in https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192140&oldid=192133 08:55:39 an edit that was made just a bit earlier 08:55:46 but anyways 08:55:54 The Thing Is there's also another link on that front page 08:56:06 which leads to (presumably) their account on onlyfans 08:56:08 miuis, that is 08:56:28 you couldn't possibly mistake this for someone who isnt trying to redirect people to porn 08:56:38 dam 08:56:47 yeah so like 08:56:53 our good will with miui has been burnt out since 08:57:09 we should probably go to the talk page about it 08:57:37 thats quite saad, their work seemed interesting 08:58:06 all their actually interesting stuff smells ai generated 08:58:13 like inflexion, as we mentioned earlier 08:58:18 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192143&oldid=191981 * CDEV * (+200) /* Introductions */ 08:58:36 oh also not to mention their site is literally named porneia 08:58:43 [[Talk:VoidPtr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192144&oldid=192142 * Dragoneater67 * (-555) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/192142|192142]] by [[Special:Contributions/Miui|Miui]] ([[User talk:Miui|talk]]) revert vandalism again 08:58:49 god damn 08:58:59 thankfully there doesnt seem to be any porn *on* the website itself 08:59:11 which means you can go ahead and see how god damn atrocious it is 08:59:18 atrocious as in the colors 08:59:18 also, editing war type shit is brewing I think 08:59:22 yea 08:59:28 we're going to miuis talk page about their site 09:00:49 [[Talk:VoidPtr]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192145&oldid=192144 * Miui * (+555) undo vandalism by dragoneater. please refer to [[WSAP#external_resources]] wiki-squatting/agenda-pushing. 09:00:59 [[User:CDEV]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192146 * CDEV * (+133) Created page with "Hello. I write shitty code and brag on [https://www.youtube.com/@cdev-eloper youtube]. You can message me on projects-cdev@proton.me" 09:02:10 [[-]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192147&oldid=191140 * Dragoneater67 * (+0) /* Truth machine */ fix 09:02:42 i question why esolangs remove unicode symbol 09:02:45 s 09:02:55 *wonder 09:03:25 MarkFan8901: Anyway, we're okay with starting bot loops, but make sure you have a plan for stopping it if it works. One that doesn't involve waiting until someone who can stop it wakes up :P 09:03:52 oiki 09:04:07 [[Talk:VoidPtr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192148&oldid=192145 * Blashyrkh * (-555) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/192145|192145]] by [[Special:Contributions/Miui|Miui]] ([[User talk:Miui|talk]]) Please stop vandalizing pages. If you need to publish your spam links, do it at your user page 09:05:34 [[Talk:VoidPtr]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192149&oldid=192148 * Miui * (+555) undo vandalism by blashyrkh please refer to [[WSAP#external_resources]] wiki-squatting/agenda-pushing. 09:06:17 [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192150&oldid=191930 * MarkFan8901 * (+614) /* dude. */ new section 09:06:27 [[Talk:VoidPtr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192151&oldid=192149 * Miui * (-555) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/192149|192149]] by [[Special:Contributions/Miui|Miui]] ([[User talk:Miui|talk]]) 09:06:44 this is sum cursed shite 09:06:53 yea this is also our patience burning up with them 09:07:08 theyre just being openly malicious now 09:07:41 Hate to see it. 09:07:50 yea its saad 09:08:03 Poor ais523 will have to step in :-/ 09:08:05 [[-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192152&oldid=192147 * Dragoneater67 * (+115) forgor to document this 09:08:07 at least they give a good distillation of the behavior we *dont* want here 09:08:36 its even shaking up some of the other ppl who are typically off topic 09:09:37 giving me tommyeater flash backs 09:10:03 we recognize the name but not enough to know what ur talking about 09:10:08 could u give us the tea 09:10:14 YES 09:10:36 (will tke. bit to write lol) 09:10:41 ye its oki 09:10:47 [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192153&oldid=192150 * Miui * (-56) Nope. 09:10:51 we'll be paying attention to wiki activity 09:10:54 wait hold on 09:11:01 WHAT 09:11:10 they literally got rid of the fucking message we put 09:11:22 [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192154&oldid=192153 * Miui * (-1) Nope. Nope. 09:11:25 they didnt even try responding to it 09:11:55 that was literally an intrusive thought we had as part of our habit of escalating things in our head 09:12:40 oh also they replaced it *with* the shitty link they tried pasting in voidptr 09:13:21 this neocities space might even be worth an edit filter at this point, to thwart future replacement accounts 09:13:26 5 million percent confident thisll get ais to actually do something 09:13:41 * int-e sighs 09:13:53 int-e: neocities is just a free site hoster 09:14:00 we don't think its inherently malicious 09:14:22 so there was this sandbox war thing, dunno much about it, a group of people wanted to make content on the public sandbox be permanently there so ais and them kinda just fought to each other. I got involved cuz I made an esolang called 0134, which kept getting some sort of vandalism(a used added commands without being allowed to, after being told to 09:14:22 not multiple times by me), and that person happened to be associated with these wars. For whatever I reason I kept an eye out for them to make sure they didn't fuck with me more, which lead me to see all the weird "propaganda" vandalism type things they were doing, and thinking why not, kinda thought back against it. its kinda blurry from there but 09:14:23 god was it infuriating lmao. 09:14:29 thats what the tommyeaater thing ws 09:14:35 MarkFan8901: I know. I wasn't going to name the full URL for the logs. 09:14:50 [[-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192155&oldid=192152 * Dragoneater67 * (+71) /* Overview */ apply a change 09:14:52 oki oki 09:14:57 MarkFan8901: Yes! for example I ave a blog on there lol 09:15:30 [[Talk:-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192156&oldid=191616 * Dragoneater67 * (+223) /* Interpreter */ 09:15:33 also yea tea appreciated 09:15:42 MarkFan8901: great! 09:16:16 we'll ping ais so he can get The Scoop on what's happened with us 09:16:48 not that the tommyeater(or awesome now that I think about it) thing is effectively handled 09:17:33 [[Talk:-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192157&oldid=192156 * Blashyrkh * (+698) /* "After sending a signal the program waits for the signal handler to finish, but it keeps listening for new signals." */ new section 09:17:35 ais523: miui tried plastering their shitty website on [[VoidPtr]], to which we opened a section on their talk page confronting them about it, to which they simply *edited out* 09:17:55 they also edit warred over their website being on [[VoidPtr]] 09:18:21 oh and their site also links their onlyfans too 09:19:51 we dont think that could possibly make it any more obvious that the 'maya kendrick' in their site is referring to the porn star, and that theyre deliberately trying to trick people with the description of them on there 09:20:45 oh and also that miui is being actively malicious 09:21:10 is it just me or is using ai to make programming languages to build clout on an esoteric language wiki an efficient way to advertise porn =p 09:21:16 [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192158&oldid=192154 * Miui * (+0) I dont talk to sock puppets. 09:21:30 inhahe: ? 09:21:31 explain 09:21:48 i must misunderstand what's going on, i don't follow these thintgs 09:21:54 inhane: Miui certainly thinks so 09:22:00 [[Talk:-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192159&oldid=192157 * Dragoneater67 * (+215) /* "After sending a signal the program waits for the signal handler to finish, but it keeps listening for new signals." */ 09:22:04 oh, i meant inefficient 09:22:16 they certainly DONT think so lmao 09:22:18 o 09:22:19 inhahe: the notion that you could build clout on esolangs.org is funny 09:22:21 [[-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192160&oldid=192155 * Dragoneater67 * (-115) 09:22:26 int-e: true 09:22:33 int-e lmao 09:22:59 god we wish ais was up rn 09:23:04 when does he normally log on? 09:23:18 it's *very* early in the US 09:23:27 is ais in the US? 09:23:31 aint he in the UK? 09:23:39 no, that's fizzie 09:23:55 every country has an assigned user I see 09:23:56 I could be wrong. 09:23:56 lmao 09:24:25 oh something on miuis talk page now 09:24:27 >policing thought in the current times is significantly more problematic and harmful than acciddentally making a few bad esolangs. period. end of discussion. 09:24:30 (I don't think I am, but I don't really track where people live. I'll remember if it comes up frequently enough.) 09:24:49 int-e: I remember ais talking about UK politics (as opposed to korvo on American politics) which seemed as though either person lived respective place but idk. 09:25:07 first and foremost the phrase "policing thought" referring to what it does here is fucking ridiculous 09:26:33 but also its a good piece of insight into how miui views what they do on this wiki 09:27:16 cuz theyre (assumingly) referring to their own contributions 09:28:12 calling it just thought is in line with our "containers for raw ideas" quip we have to describe the slop content we see 09:28:13 [[-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192161&oldid=192160 * Dragoneater67 * (-18) /* XKCD Random Number */ fix 09:28:37 and it also lines up with miuis own languages and justifications 09:28:59 like inflexion and the (at first) bizarre justification of [[Nah.]]s existence 09:29:21 [[-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192162&oldid=192161 * Dragoneater67 * (-98) /* Hello, world! */ fix 09:29:35 for the latter we remember it was something like "well nah is han backwards, which is cjk for one, which i think makes it relevant" 09:31:02 if you put aside the fact that that sounds like a line from a half life 3 confirmed joke, you can see how theyre justifying [[Nah.]]s existence merely by connecting it to a concept 09:33:17 yknow something that should be discussed more about figuring out what's low-quality on this wiki? 09:33:21 what's high-quality on this wiki 09:33:40 more specifically, what our threshhold on 'quality' should be 09:34:35 [[-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192163&oldid=192162 * Dragoneater67 * (+9) /* Truth machine */ fix 09:34:35 cuz like if we're talking about the standards of the wiki and what they are, we're also talking about the standards of the wiki and what they are 09:35:22 [[Talk:-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192164&oldid=192159 * Dragoneater67 * (+233) /* "After sending a signal the program waits for the signal handler to finish, but it keeps listening for new signals." */ 09:36:17 speaking of which 09:36:33 those hello, world/truth machine/xkcd random number/etc edits 09:36:42 those just seem, WAY too easy to add onto any page 09:36:49 like theyre *too* basic concepts 09:36:55 its easy to spam edits with 09:37:47 which we feel like facilitates wiki gaming and low quality contributors 09:38:37 I think the Truth machine is useful for seeing certain capabilities of. language, but XKCD and other things which just, output a constant or whatever are too easy 09:39:05 Those edits are fine, really; they add value. Think of it as adding examples to existing pages. 09:39:07 we think hello world programs are good to have on a page, but we dont need like 2 or 3 other problems which serve a similar skill threshhold 09:39:22 yea 09:39:39 int-e: yea but theyre the *same* examples which can be made regardless of the language at hand 09:39:43 it kinda reminds me of merging *languages* which are basically the exact same, perhaps we do the same for programs which do such 09:39:46 which kind of defeats the point of having language examples 09:40:07 MarkFan8901: Truth machine, again, demonstrates techniques and such used for programming in the language 09:40:08 since it doesnt show anything unique or interesting about the language 09:40:19 like how to make loops and how to output and how to do conditional checks 09:40:33 especially if those things are not directly in the language 09:40:34 ye thats fair 09:41:12 I disagree. Each language page lives, to some extent, in isolation. The fact that other language pages also have hello world and truth machine programs doesn't really matter in that view. 09:41:21 thats also true 09:41:35 well it does matter in the view of wiki gaming 09:42:15 tolerating some level of background noise in contributions was how we ended up here in the first place 09:42:54 where *most* of the edits being done are stuff that was happening years ago, but wasnt really paid attention to properly 09:43:18 -!- Yayimheretoo has quit (Quit: Client closed). 09:43:43 wawa 09:43:55 betting its a computer crash 09:44:21 God we wish ais was here 09:44:32 The thing is, if your attitude becomes to disallow everything that *could* enable trolling ("wiki gaming"), then you'll quickly end up with a wiki that disables edits completely. 09:44:59 It's mostly a people problem, not a content-level problem. 09:45:19 we agree 09:45:34 Limiting the scope can only do so much; trolls *thrive* on skirting the established boundaries. 09:45:43 yes 09:46:10 honestly we were kinda just venting some feelings when we made that original point about the truth machine and xkcd examples 09:47:03 we still think the xkcd random number examples are annoying, but we have changed our mind otherwise 09:47:47 also int-e there is a big difference between trolling and wiki gaming 09:48:18 trolling is what miui is doing right now, deliberately being an asshole and trying to get away with it 09:48:46 [[-/Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192165&oldid=192139 * Dragoneater67 * (+42) /* Example */ 09:49:02 wiki gaming is just when you try to treat wiki contributing as a game about how much of an impact you can have on a wiki 09:49:16 most commonly, how many edits or pages you can make 09:49:52 [[Talk:-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192166&oldid=192164 * Blashyrkh * (+472) /* "After sending a signal the program waits for the signal handler to finish, but it keeps listening for new signals." */ 09:50:13 MarkFan8901: wiki gaming becomes trolling when it's out of scope for the wiki (which it is, since it's not documenting esolangs or an adjacent topic but rather using the wiki as a playground) 09:50:43 we might have different connotations attached to the word trolling 09:50:58 to us, 'trolling' is a nasty word 09:51:11 its reserved for people who are actively trying to hurt others 09:51:46 your definition is useful for what we're talking about, but we wouldnt call it trolling 09:52:03 theres probably a good word for it but it's not coming to us 09:52:32 I'm assuming that the participants know/have been told that this particular wiki is not a playground. 09:52:38 [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192167&oldid=192064 * Cordership * (+71) /* Syntax */ 09:52:39 At which time it becomes intentional. 09:53:09 we're assuming theyre just kids 09:54:10 maybe its cuz our prior experience with wikis is in a roblox fandom one, but 09:55:01 we dont wanna bunch miui with people like none1 09:55:54 there's obvious differences in intention (and actions) between them 09:56:09 and we think it's clean to say that miui is trolling while both are wiki gaming 09:56:21 yswim 09:56:21 Well, the consideration is still there, in that not all trolls are the same. Some can still be saved ;-) 09:57:46 what we're saying is we dont like you calling both typical kid behavior and miuis behavior trolling 09:58:12 [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192168&oldid=192167 * Cordership * (+296) /* Syntax */ 09:58:23 we dont think others need to be 'saved' from kid behavior 09:58:42 theyll probably just grow up and out of the wiki in general with time 09:58:46 No the kids are the ones who need to be saved of course. 09:58:54 oh true 09:59:06 wait yea thats even more literal cuz of the shit thats on miuis site 09:59:48 it still hasnt fully sunk in that theres a nonzero chance some kid could unwittingly look up porn because of them right now 09:59:55 at least until ais wakes up and parses all of this 10:03:41 https://porneia.neocities.org/wiki/Brainfuck at least this looks cool 10:04:01 its just the esolangs page for bf but with some weird glitch thing on the left 10:04:26 we checked the photo in a separate tab its not anything inappropriate thankfully 10:04:34 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 251 seconds). 10:07:10 maybe we should talk about our own esolang to ease our nerves about all of this 10:07:41 it's a microarchitecture based off gap buffers (called cut buffers in the lang) 10:07:53 basically like a text editor 10:08:33 the way it works rn is that theres a 'main' cut which serves as global memory 10:09:27 is this logically different from having two stacks (one for what comes before the gap and another one for what comes after)? 10:09:36 no 10:09:51 our original implementation of cuts was actually with stacks 10:10:05 but they both took up ~100 lines of code each 10:10:36 Because that's a common thing to do; in particular it can simulate tapes (if you ignore stuff details like the gap size being bounded) 10:10:37 and we rewrote it into a single thing which also turned out to be 100 loc 10:10:42 ye 10:11:12 the intent is that it can be used to easily simulate a rewriting system 10:11:31 for the purpose of language compilation/interpretation 10:12:42 building such a system up from a few fundamental instructions (the microarchitecture) would also allow us to write equally fundamental things which could make it MUCH more powerful to that end 10:13:03 thats actually one of the big goals of the project, to make language implementation piss easy 10:13:07 but we digress 10:14:02 there's a cut which is global memory, and the memory is initialized by default with the cut that has the current code, the memory itself, a cut which contains each argument in the form of a cut, and 0 10:14:55 all the instructions are just very basic things you can do with cuts 10:15:11 moving their cursor, copying from one to another, typing a certain number, etc 10:15:19 theres 2 important caveats to this though 10:16:09 firstly, the first argument of each instruction corresponds to a cut in memory 10:17:01 to be clearer, if you have something like `inst @1`, `@1` refers to whatever cut is stored in the first element of memory 10:17:05 which, by default, is the memory itself 10:18:20 so i.e. `new @1` would assign the current cell in [the cut stored in cell 1 of memory] to a newly-allocated cut 10:19:08 `new @0` would assign it to [the cut stored in cell 0 of memory], by default the code being ran 10:19:12 new? No such file or directory 10:19:20 Bebebebe 10:19:36 -!- tromp has joined. 10:19:42 Hmm, so you get a tree. 10:19:46 ye 10:19:57 secondly, (nearly) all arguments in an instruction are literals 10:20:10 that's fine for something like `move`, which moves the cursor in a cut by a given amount 10:20:17 but not for something like `add` 10:21:11 our idea with this was to make it so that you'd have to make a new cut, type the `add` instruction and the values you wanna add into it, then run it 10:21:34 or something along those lines 10:22:02 oh right theres also the `run` instruction, which changes what code is currently running to the given cut 10:22:50 we are currently trying to come up with a system to make something like that cleanly and extensibly 10:22:56 in other words, we are trying to implement functions 10:24:04 also int-e trees are also very important in ralsei 10:24:18 cuz asts can be modeled by cuts very easily in that way 10:25:11 where you just store the address of cuts in other cuts to represent branches of parent nodes 10:25:43 though we do have concerns about how youd access the contents of said trees 10:26:00 cuz again the core instructions can only index stuff from global memory 10:26:53 so we feel like you'd have to 'unfold' the tree by repeatedly taking the pointers out and putting them in main memory until you get to the one you wanna index 10:27:32 actually wait 10:28:04 fsr we had the idea that there'd be a linear increase in needed memory relative to the depth of the search 10:28:36 but it would actually only be constant if you just took the last one off before adding the new one 10:30:09 we're half tempted to publish the source code we have rn to get help with this 10:30:34 but we dont wanna do that until we get it to a state we're happy wiith 10:32:21 oh something about the 'make a new cut and run that' approach to functions that we really like 10:32:52 theoretically you wouldnt even need a return stack to make nested functions calls successfully 10:33:38 cuz you can just plop the code that switches to the previous running cut directly into it 10:46:24 -!- MarkFan8901 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 11:17:28 -!- amby has joined. 11:25:00 [[Brainball]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192169&oldid=173706 * FordsTheodore * (+36) 11:25:15 [[User:FordsTheodore]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192170&oldid=192044 * FordsTheodore * (-16) 11:49:43 [[BrainASM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192171&oldid=189462 * Mishyakovskiy * (+110) 11:51:26 [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192172&oldid=192168 * Cordership * (+455) 11:52:00 [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192173&oldid=192172 * Cordership * (+33) /* Recaman sequence */ 11:53:06 [[Sgn Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192174&oldid=188393 * Cordership * (+0) /* Simpl */ 11:53:50 [[Sgn Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192175&oldid=192174 * Cordership * (+20) /* Simpl */ 11:55:15 [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192176&oldid=192173 * Cordership * (+1) /* Categories */ 12:12:12 [[User:Miui/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192177&oldid=192105 * Miui * (-4909) beginning to sketch lang 12:18:07 [[Pgmpietoncracklang/Pgmpietoncracklang++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192178&oldid=192075 * Miui * (-14) developing an S.O.P. for website interaction/esolang development excuse me 12:19:18 [[Pgmpietonracklang/Pgmpietonracklang+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192179&oldid=192120 * Miui * (+37) the "advanced" example-based joke programming language now lives off site 12:19:30 [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192180&oldid=192107 * None1 * (+942) /* BF Joust strategies */ My opinion 12:20:41 [[Talk:-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192181&oldid=192166 * Blashyrkh * (+360) /* Kolakoski sequence */ new section 12:22:17 [[User:Blashyrkh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192182&oldid=191603 * Blashyrkh * (+134) +golfing 12:39:12 [[ChooseMatrix]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192183 * None1 * (+533) Created page with "ChooseMatrix is an [[OISC]] invented by [[User:None1]] which uses matrices to operate on a vector. ==Data== The only data is a 0-indexed vector ''a'', with ''n'' dimensions, where ''n'' is automatically detected from the matrices. Initially, a1 is 1, the re 12:44:47 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192184&oldid=192025 * None1 * (+19) /* C */ 12:45:45 [[ChooseMatrix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192185&oldid=192183 * None1 * (+77) /* Command */ 12:45:58 [[ChooseMatrix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192186&oldid=192185 * None1 * (+10) 12:46:15 [[ChooseMatrix]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192187&oldid=192186 * None1 * (+5) /* Data */ 12:46:53 [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192188&oldid=191504 * None1 * (+62) /* My Esolangs */ 12:47:55 [[Talk:VoidPtr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192189&oldid=192151 * Basilisk * (+387) Unbounded memory 12:48:26 [[Talk:VoidPtr]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192190&oldid=192189 * Basilisk * (+2) format 12:54:28 [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192191&oldid=192176 * Cordership * (+157) /* Module 3: Mathplot */ 13:02:04 maybe you sohuld make a little syntax for accessing branches in the cut tree 13:04:17 [[User:Miui/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192192&oldid=192177 * Miui * (+22960) Draft up the most concise possible introduction and definite basis for the languag. 13:06:24 [[Talk:VoidPtr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192193&oldid=192190 * Basilisk * (+359) Alright, I'll prove it. 13:16:33 [[Talk:-]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192194&oldid=192181 * Blashyrkh * (-3) /* Kolakoski sequence */ 3 bytes shorter 13:18:03 [[User:Blashyrkh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192195&oldid=192182 * Blashyrkh * (+17) Shorter [[Kolakoski sequence]] in [[-]] (142 > 139) 13:19:53 [[User:Miui/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192196&oldid=192192 * Miui * (+197) Add Category: Output only, External resources 13:20:25 [[User:Miui/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192197&oldid=192196 * Miui * (+1) fix category spelling 13:32:33 [[User:Miui/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192198&oldid=192197 * Miui * (+431) /* Instruction pointer */ describe "below stack section" and pointers for program execution 13:33:18 [[User:Miui/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192199&oldid=192198 * Miui * (+2) /* Male chanter */ fix bss 13:34:38 [[User:Miui/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192200&oldid=192199 * Miui * (+4) further debugging of the bss ("below stack section") 13:35:21 [[User:Miui/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192201&oldid=192200 * Miui * (-1) /* Female chanter */ fix errors 13:46:27 [[User:Miui/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192202&oldid=192201 * Miui * (+2) Make the female chanter section subordinate to the male chanter section 13:48:58 [[User:Miui/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192203&oldid=192202 * Miui * (+21) /* Female chanter */ further debugging 13:55:14 [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192204&oldid=191373 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+14) /* 2026 */ 14:02:21 [[The Second Coming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192205&oldid=191735 * Cordership * (+181) /* Conditional statement */ 14:03:25 [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192206&oldid=192204 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+23) /* 2026 */ 14:03:43 [[The Second Coming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192207&oldid=192205 * Cordership * (+51) /* Conditional statement */ 14:10:27 [[-/Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192208&oldid=192165 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+182) the solution is to wait with noops 14:11:22 [[The Second Coming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192209&oldid=192207 * Cordership * (+22) /* Chapter 2: Operators */ 14:12:21 [[The Second Coming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192210&oldid=192209 * Cordership * (+25) /* Categories and References */ 14:14:14 [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192211&oldid=191916 * Cordership * (+77) /* Python-based */ new section 14:15:42 [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192212&oldid=192211 * Cordership * (+130) /* Python-based */ 14:19:37 [[User:Miui/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192213&oldid=192203 * Miui * (-22074) /* Instruction pointer */ make flag smaller 14:20:57 [[User:Miui/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192214&oldid=192213 * Miui * (+17) /* Instruction pointer */ center the flag 14:28:03 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Fictology * New user account 14:28:10 [[User:Miui/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192215&oldid=192214 * Miui * (+266) link to resources about murray polygons 14:38:12 -!- DOS_User_webchat has joined. 14:45:11 -!- DOS_User_webchat has quit (Quit: Client closed). 14:46:36 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192216&oldid=192143 * Fictology * (+236) /* Introductions */ 14:58:31 -!- joast has quit (Ping timeout: 262 seconds). 14:58:47 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * SE * New user account 15:00:49 -!- joast has joined. 15:07:52 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192217&oldid=192216 * SE * (+150) 15:10:51 [[Prime]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192218 * Fictology * (+3390) Created page with "Prime Fictology [https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E7%AE%97%E6%9C%AF%E5%9F%BA%E6%9C%AC%E5%AE%9A%E7%90%86/10920095 ] lambda..." 15:12:32 [[Prime]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192219&oldid=192218 * Fictology * (+154) /* Commad Table */ 15:15:44 [[Prime]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192220&oldid=192219 * Fictology * (+53) /* Example */ 15:15:59 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Timeroot * New user account 15:17:13 [[Prime]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192221&oldid=192220 * Fictology * (-71) /* Prime Language Compiler */ 15:17:16 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192222&oldid=192217 * Timeroot * (+249) introducing myself! 15:17:50 [[Prime]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192223&oldid=192221 * Fictology * (+73) /* Example */ 15:18:02 [[Prime]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192224&oldid=192223 * Fictology * (+0) /* Example */ 15:19:28 [[Prime]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192225&oldid=192224 * Fictology * (+1) /* Commad Table */ 15:20:47 [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192226&oldid=192212 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+48) /* Python-based */ unsigned 15:27:45 [[Talk:Prime]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192227 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+225) Created page with "pages on this wiki should be written in english --~~~~" 15:33:34 [[FFS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192228&oldid=165158 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+59) categorize some more 15:34:04 [[FFS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192229&oldid=192228 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+24) cell-based 15:35:49 -!- raiseafloppafan has joined. 15:44:05 [[Hypercube]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192230 * Timeroot * (+8872) Defining the Hypercube esolang 15:44:07 [[Arra]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192231&oldid=171684 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+68) unknown computational class & unimplemented 15:56:17 [[THE ROARING KNIGHT CHALLENGES YOU TO A DUEL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192232&oldid=164279 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+110) categorization 16:04:44 [[Two-instruction madness!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192233&oldid=122636 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (-1) /* Interpreters */ if you want a code block, either use pre or indent by one space 16:23:31 non-esoteric programming question that I think you might be able to answer. sometimes when people compile a program for a unix-like system, they want to install it to a place that's at a different pathname at install time than it will be at runtime. so you have to tell both of these to the make/configure scripts. can you point me to a document that describes the conventions that make this easy if I'm 16:23:37 developing a program, like what to name the pathname variables to make it easy for those people (eg. those that make distro packages or cross-compile) to understand? also pathnames for where to find dependency libraries at compile time vs runtime? 17:22:54 [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192234&oldid=191979 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+331) /* 2026-present - aeopgj30jgewjgoejg90eGko3g */ 17:24:38 cu 17:24:42 ☺ 17:24:45 😴 17:25:29 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:25:39 -!- FreeFull has changed hostmask to ~freefull@user/FreeFull. 17:27:57 [[Tonk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192235&oldid=191689 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+334) /* Developer tanks */ 17:46:07 Run time configuration files is another thing that you might want to know the path name (although files in the home directory, or specified by environment variables or command-line arguments, might override that if they are available) 18:16:54 getauxval(AT_SECURE) should have been defined with its value backwards, so that it gives nonzero for normal programs and zero for setid programs, because getauxval fails to zero if you pass an unknown argument to it. 18:19:01 [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192236&oldid=192234 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+106) 18:35:00 hello 18:36:43 thunder is coming, which is nice. i like the sound of rain 18:36:59 -!- joast has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds). 18:37:03 seeya 18:38:02 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:47:10 [[MediaWiki:Abusefilter-blocked-link]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192237 * Ais523 * (+273) explanation for an edit that was prevented due to containing a link that has been spammed 18:50:04 [[Talk:Zymbol-Lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192238&oldid=182535 * Ais523 * (-166) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/182506|182506]] by [[Special:Contributions/Miui|Miui]] ([[User talk:Miui|talk]]) links to site that has been spammed recently, links to that site are no longer allowed 18:50:42 hmm, there are more links to this site than I expected 18:50:56 maybe I should only block the homepage 18:51:03 but edit-warring a spam link onto a page is not acceptable behavior 18:51:25 -!- X-Scale has joined. 18:52:40 -!- joast has joined. 18:54:02 [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[.:]]": only description about the language is "constant language thats nullary in base 13. It is not a joke.", and the page was primarily being used as a link repository rather than a description of the language 18:54:47 -!- MarkFan8901 has joined. 18:55:31 ais523: could you also revert miuis talk page to the edit that we made to it 18:55:41 cuz they just immediately removed what we said on there 18:56:12 MarkFan8901: actually I'd prefer to not have the link there 18:56:29 true 18:56:30 a comment saying "please don't link to this page" is somewhat self-undermining if it contains a link to the page 18:56:38 sorry 18:56:47 would it be okay if we added it back but got rid of the link 18:57:33 yes 18:57:37 okay okay 18:58:12 anyway, the website in question is being used to host things like interpreters, but also used to host exact copies of things which might potentially be copyright-infringing but I don't have enough information 18:58:18 so I'm not sure what to do about existing links 18:58:47 its still shameless promo 18:58:50 I did configure the spam filter to block links to Miui's website being newly added (because there was evidence that Miui was trying to spam it) 18:59:11 if this was some corpo site instead the grounds to ban it for that reason would be much more obvious 19:00:34 oh, repeated offtopic spam (with no ontopic edits) is a reason to block the site, block the account, and revert everything the account ever did – it was many years ago now, but esolangs.org used to get very high quantities of spambots 19:00:47 that used to be pretty much all the admin work I did, blocking spambots and deleting the spam 19:01:00 then we added the Introduce yourself page, and none of the existing spambot frameworks could figure out how to get past it 19:01:07 yeah, the decisions are getting harder now 19:01:12 for wiki moderation 19:01:50 I can probably delete over a thousand pages in an hour if the decisions are easy enough and the network isn't being slow 19:02:16 actual speed of admin actions is not the problem, it's working out when to perform them and what to perform 19:02:46 on misbehaving users, my normal strategy is to gradually remove their ability to use site features that they've been abusing, e.g. if someone vandalises other people's user talk pages, you remove their ability to edit other people's user talk pages 19:03:15 eventually this reaches an equilibrium where they give up misusing things, and either use things correctly or leave the site 19:04:38 [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192239&oldid=192158 * MarkFan8901 * (+37) 19:06:45 oya we checked miuis most recent edits 19:06:51 theyre on https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Miui/Sandbox 19:07:07 and it has a section that says >The inherent sex of the chanter must be decided given the options male or female. 19:08:43 we dont think thats grounds for anything but its way nastier cuz of miuis other actions 19:08:45 this appears to refer to some variable inside an esolang? 19:09:03 yea its under ==Program Execution== 19:11:09 also for some reason there's a flag on there which is rendered by manually drawing a bunch of 1px(?) wide boxes in css 19:11:22 its not that egregious now but it was a few edits ago 19:11:37 again not grounds for anything 19:11:41 its just bizarre 19:12:10 [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741/Constant language directory]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192240&oldid=191597 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+380) /* QuineAvoiding() */ not sure but miui has this listed under constant languages so i'm adding it 19:12:23 [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192241&oldid=192236 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (-2564) 19:13:46 If you are using 1px wide boxes in CSS to render a very large picture flag then it might be considered too excessive (and may result too big file and too much time and/or memory to render on some computers) 19:14:03 yea we were thinking that 19:14:13 it was genuinely excessive before but now its pretty small 19:14:27 but also like there's just a picture of the flag on the wikipedia page 19:14:31 Just use that dummy 19:17:22 MarkFan8901: I think you can't embed pictures hosted elsewhere into a mediawiki page, and that's as it should be on most webpages with user-submitted content from multiple users together, though sadly many forums don't behave that way. 19:18:41 true 19:18:42 [[TryHard]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192242&oldid=173672 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+110) categorization 19:19:00 we still cant imagine its that hard to just reupload the image tho 19:19:06 on some forums I even block external images (with some exceptions) on the browser-side 19:20:00 image uploads should be pretty rare here 19:20:22 also true 19:20:23 I have been considering deleting most of Miui's on the "defining offtopic content to be part of an esolang doens't make it ontopic" rule 19:20:31 haven't got around to it yet 19:20:50 but at least that rule seems fairly uncontroversial, I should probably pur it on the policy page 19:21:15 [[Raylang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192243&oldid=112014 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+243) categorization, also does this count as pseudonatural or thematic? 19:21:19 "offtopic things dont make things ontopic" seems like a pretty obvious rule 19:21:35 I've put some content on the wiki that is not clearly on-topic, but I hope I'm doing it in a less annoying way 19:24:18 [[Esolang:Policy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192244&oldid=179152 * Ais523 * (+275) add/explain the rule about not being able to create an esolang to make offtopic content ontopic; this was mentioned in the 2026 topicality proposal and seems uncontroversial 19:24:34 b_jonas: there's a lot of grey area 19:24:37 wait we misread "uncontroversial" as "unconventional" 19:24:41 apologies 19:24:57 sure, that's what I'm mostly relying on 19:24:59 [[Karvity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192245&oldid=167770 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+188) categorization 19:25:11 also about topicality in general 19:25:19 maybe self deprecation also has something to do with it? 19:25:22 turns out, computation is everywhere if you look deeply 19:25:48 like we went through some of raiseafloppafans pages and kept seeing them self deprecating everything they made 19:25:58 ? 19:26:22 maybe it was cuz we only went through like a small amount of your pages 19:27:07 but its a pattern we've seen around low effort languages in general 19:28:08 [[Ooord]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192246&oldid=175754 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+57) categorization 19:28:34 reminds us of how r/programminghorrors has a bunch of low-quality submissions since people just started submitting their own code and talking about how bad it was 19:31:12 [[SSEG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192247&oldid=177526 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+129) categorization 19:32:27 -!- MarkFan8901 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 19:32:29 [[Cookie]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192248&oldid=163155 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+135) categorization 19:33:40 [[Bitsflit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192249&oldid=159873 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+110) categorization 19:36:00 [[Broken Gdy Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192250&oldid=109236 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+119) computational class + bf derivative cats 19:36:51 [[Gdy Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192251&oldid=109243 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+114) categorization 19:47:51 [[Gdy Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192252&oldid=192251 * Blashyrkh * (-10) Since it lacks loops it can't be TC. It's total 19:49:44 b_jonas: fwiw I think "thing is usable for computation but wasn't designed as a programming language" is ontopic: it's usable as a programming language and yet wasn't intended as a practical programming language, that's close to a definition of an esolang 19:50:33 although I'm not sure that making pages specifically about, say, M:tG or Netrunner would make sense (rather, it makes more sense to make pages about the languages that were used to prove them TC) 19:51:03 ais523: how about esoteric things that you can do in an existing non-esoteric programming language? yeah, I shouldn't even ask, we have Subtyping engine and JSFuck 19:51:44 I guess a good dividing line is: The Subtyping Machine doesn't explain the semantics of Java at all, just exploits part of its type system 19:52:01 and likewise an article on JSFuck wouldn't contain enough information to allow you to learn how to program in JavaScript 19:52:14 well sometimes they aren't TC but just allow computations in a large memory size whose size is determined by the program 19:52:18 so the focus is on the relevant part 19:52:29 (and TC isn't really the boundary, but usability for computation) 19:54:24 sure, but occasionally the language that we use is boring 19:54:50 like in OpenTTD where it's just some boolean gates on registers 19:55:16 it's how you embed it into an OpenTTD save that's interesting 19:55:55 and for JSFuck and Subtyping Machine it's interesting how you embed them into Javascript and Java, even if the simulated language can be interesting alone 19:56:32 -!- raiseafloppafan has quit (Quit: Client closed). 19:56:44 oh yes, the embedding is the interesting part of the page about the embedded language 19:57:05 but, we still write the page from the point of view of the embedded language, even if the embedding is the only interesting part 19:57:22 ok 19:59:21 Tom7's ABC might be an even better example, the language that it compiles from isn't interesting in any esoteric way, but how it can be simulated is 20:01:47 -!- raiseafloppafan has joined. 20:02:01 that said, the languages being embedded often are interesting 20:02:28 Flooding Waterfall Model was nontrivial to even prove TC, and The Subtyping Machine is quite different from most esolangs we see posted 20:03:04 even the language embedded into Netrunner, despite essentially being a two-counter machine, has a lot of weirdness to it 20:03:12 yeah. and StackFlow is interesting in its own right even after we failed to fix the M:tG construction 20:03:57 well even a fully general two-counter Minsky machine with arbitrary flow control is esoteric enough 20:04:12 very much not something you want to use for production programming 20:04:29 and it's not trivial why it's TC 20:05:11 and you're right about Flooding Waterfall Model 20:06:23 One of my user subpages has a section about Magic: the Gathering, with only a very brief description but does link to the Flooding Waterfall Model. 20:07:22 zzo38: StackFlow would be interesting to embed because it'd be so efficient, compared to most of the constructions that we could do in M:tG 20:08:10 I don't like exponential slowdowns 20:12:47 anyway, https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:B_jonas/Polyminoes is very likely off-topic, and https://esolangs.org/wiki/Font may be off-topic 20:18:32 does this mean that if we have two independent very different ways to prove that something like M:tG is usable for computation then we should document those in two different pages of the esowiki? 20:19:13 like we could have one page about Factorio combinators and one page on how to simulate boolean circuits with just Factorio belt transport? 20:19:49 b_jonas: I think so 20:19:58 putting the different ways in the same article doesn't really make sense 20:20:08 ok 20:20:19 (this is already true for M:tG, given the extremely complicated two-state Turing machine that works by giving everything phasing) 20:22:16 yeah, the question then is what happens when we have multiple independent ways to prove that an esolang is Turing-complete 20:25:01 this also happens quite a lot 20:25:13 most articles in that situation discuss one in detail and just mention the others 20:26:57 yes, in particular I have two ways to embed two-stack machines into Consumer Society, but the language is more powerful than even a three-stack (or four-stack) machine because it can simulate efficient random access read-writable memory 20:27:24 but I'm not sure if those are truly independent, only that both ways are interesting and worth to know about 20:27:35 ah, more complexity-powerful rather than more computationally-powerful 20:27:44 this is a direction I was thinking about with, e.g., Esimpl 20:28:44 yes 20:29:06 it's still computable 20:29:47 I think that, in an n-stack machine, every increment of n adds more complexity-power (although I'm not totally sure) 20:31:29 yes, I think that's true, but the third stack matters much more in practice than any additional ones 20:33:31 and in Consumer Society, the two-stack simulation is easier to directly prove than more stacks, like you get two stacks naturally, the same two stacks as in Underload and many other similar languages with an instruction stack and one data stack 20:40:24 Meh... the argument order of _mm_andnot_ps is a bit surprising. 20:43:35 int-e: that's an old instruction from before AVX, so it matters which operand is in-out 20:44:01 and register-only too 20:57:28 int-e: it's surprising in the asm, too 21:12:52 -!- MarkFan8901 has joined. 21:13:25 ais523: on the point about mainstream languages, we already have pages about them 21:13:31 and their rule is that they can only cover esoteric things you can do in them 21:13:40 which seems like a pretty good policy to have 21:13:57 plus it also sets a good bar for future pages about mainstream langs 21:13:59 MarkFan8901: I know, I am neutral on this, but I think there's a consensus in favor 21:14:08 ye 21:14:22 ok we're gonna read the rest of the convo now 21:17:44 [[Broken Gdy Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192253&oldid=192250 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (-10) since Gdy Brainfuck is total then this is total as well 21:17:54 ais523: Yeah. It really only makes sense with the in place modification in mind. 21:26:16 I think that multiple ways of Magic: the Gathering being Turing complete can be mentioned in one page, although most descriptions might be separate pages anyways (especially if the descriptions are long enough for this, and/or include things other than Magic: the Gathering as well so they are not primarily about Magic: the Gathering). For example, they could be listed in http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Zzo38/Game_rules#Magic:_the_Gatheri 21:26:51 (This is a specific example; other similar things that do not involve Magic: the Gathering, might similarly be applicable and/or not applicable) 21:32:53 would having them be in subpages on a single mtg page work? 21:34:57 Since some of them have their own standalone significance in addition to the significance with Magic: the Gathering (this is the case for Flooding Waterfall Model, which has its own semantics but then also the implementation in Magic: the Gathering), I would think that doing subpages like you describe probably won't do (although a category might do, but that will need more discussion to see if it will do or not) 21:35:46  yea 21:35:48 hm 21:35:49 this is a tough cookie 21:39:07 Magic: the Gathering is easy enough to search that I don't think it's worth a category 21:39:16 and yes, that applies to ICFP contest too 21:41:40 -!- ^[ has quit (Ping timeout: 266 seconds). 21:42:55 I could see a point that not all esoteric things that you can do in production programming languages are on topic for the wiki, only some of them 21:43:16 but it's not easy to define which ones 21:44:13 we'd think the rules there could probably just be the same as whatever topicality rules we come up with 21:45:16 -!- ^[ has joined. 21:48:40 When restricted to avx2, is there a better way to expand bits to bytes than https://paste.debian.net/hidden/cd839933 ? (mask registers are avx512 only, so can't be used) 21:49:08 -!- MarkFan8901 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 21:49:35 (the final mask is negated; that doesn't matter to me) 21:54:03 lists normally work better than categories for most things, categories are more for things that are so widely applicable that you would want to check for them whenever you create a new page 21:54:39 int-e: that link is broken for me 21:55:22 I see. I need to stop using that pastebin. It keeps deleting some things very quickly. 21:57:25 maybe this one? https://bpa.st/W4MGG 22:01:03 int-e: that may be more efficient than what I was thinking of 22:02:24 which was to broadcast each single byte to 8, shift each byte by a varying amount so that the bit that controlled the byte you want ended up at the top of the byte, then using any of the many methods that expand the bit at the top of the word to cover the whole byte 22:02:36 (the problem being that there isn't a "shift bytes", only a "shift words" 22:02:37 ) 22:03:44 fwiw, I think the most efficient way to use long vector constants is to store them in a static const somewhere and then just read them from memory when you need them 22:07:00 ais523: I trust the compiler to figure that out. It did that for the first two constants; it used a vpxor for the 0 one 22:07:12 [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192254&oldid=192226 * Ais523 * (+270) /* Python-based */ I don't think this would make for a good category 22:07:42 ah, I'm used to writing these things in asm rather than with intrinsics 22:07:53 so I'm never quite sure to what extent the compiler optimizes intrinsics 22:11:41 oh no... I have an all-one constant as well, and for that one it does... vpcmpeqd y,y,y; vpabsb y,y 22:12:11 (once, outside of the one hot loop that uses it, so it doesn't really matter) 22:16:37 oh there's a slight difference between gcc and clang there; clang uses vpbroadcastq with a memory operand for the second constant 22:23:06 [[Talk:WSAP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192255 * Ais523 * (+1290) explaining a deletion 22:23:14 [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[WSAP]]": this claims the existence of something which may or may not be an esolang, but doesn't describe it at all, and what content the article does contain is self-contradictory; see talk 22:24:17 int-e: abs (x==x) might even be the most efficient way to create an all-1s constant 22:31:59 ais523: possibly. it was quite unexpected though 22:33:28 Huh, clang figured out that it can compare the result of the `and` with the mask used to complement the result. 22:33:40 To avoid the vpandn? 22:34:44 GCC's code is faster though. Still, I had not considered that option :) 22:34:52 int-e: I think there is something better but I'm not quite sure 22:41:40 -!- raiseafloppafan has quit (Quit: Client closed). 22:43:04 [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192256&oldid=192239 * Miui * (+711) 22:43:57 -!- joast has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:44:04 [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192257&oldid=192256 * Miui * (-1) moving english discussion to the english discussion section 22:46:04 [[User:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192258&oldid=192127 * Miui * (+97) /* miscellany */ Wiki squatting and Agenda pushing article moved to miscellany! 22:49:08 [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192259&oldid=192257 * Miui * (+376) /* dude. */ 22:53:05 "whatever smear campaign this is" lmao 22:54:43 [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192260&oldid=192259 * Miui * (+219) /* dude. */ 23:06:09 [[User:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192261&oldid=192258 * Miui * (+141) Added dafne archive and begin archive section because of an ongoing targeted attempt to find a way to ban my account 23:09:06 int-e: no, I retract that, the reasons why I'd thought there's something better don't work 23:21:56 -!- MarkFan8901 has joined. 23:22:08 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Dhaugh * New user account 23:22:33 b_jonas: No worries. The main reason why I asked is that the opposite direction exists: https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/pmovmskb And it's fairly easy to miss an instruction. 23:23:13 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:23:42 [[User:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192262&oldid=192261 * Miui * (+65) /* Archiving efforts */ archived the thought police 23:23:47 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192263&oldid=192222 * Dhaugh * (+55) /* Introductions */ 23:24:27 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192264&oldid=192263 * Dhaugh * (+82) /* Introductions */ 23:29:46 -!- joast has joined. 23:30:16 [[User:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192265&oldid=192262 * Miui * (+78) /* Archiving efforts */ archived pgmpietoncracklang! 23:37:02 [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192266&oldid=192260 * Ais523 * (+1001) /* dude. */ link evidence of spamming 23:41:26 [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192267&oldid=192266 * MarkFan8901 * (+102) msg + some formatting 23:41:39 [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192268&oldid=192267 * MarkFan8901 * (+91) 23:42:32 oh another thing about their talk page 23:42:41 we find the phrase "acciddentally making a few bad esolangs" interesting 23:42:48 like how do you "accidentally" make an esolang 23:42:56 unless we're parsing that wrong 23:43:46 accidentally bad, i assume 23:44:54 b_jonas: re: specifying paths for install conventions: see sections 16.4 and 16.5 here: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/doc/make-doc/make.html/Makefile-Conventions.html#DESTDIR 23:44:57 [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192269&oldid=192268 * MarkFan8901 * (+346) 23:47:13 inhahe: ya ur probably right 23:48:08 I suspect it's hard to make good esolangs at a high rate 23:49:08 yes 23:49:22 we've been working on ralsei for two years by this point 23:49:24 [[User talk:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192270&oldid=192269 * Miui * (-3440) 23:49:27 I've only made one esolang so far this year, for example (which is mostly there as a partial research result – I'm interested in whether consistent-Collatz is TC on this integers, this language is TC consistent-Collatz but in a different ring) 23:49:53 miui back at it with just deleting the whole section and pretending thatll make the problem go away 23:50:00 err. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fading_Shout 23:50:04 it's in the page history 23:50:19 [[Talk:The best esolang ever]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192271&oldid=95435 * Marcus 2n2 * (+258) /* you are going to end esolangs */ 23:50:21 part of the reason I gave the Special:Diff links is that many people don't realise that everything they do on a wiki is recorded 23:50:39 so showing a history link can serve as a reminder of that 23:55:20 (Miui did stop the edit war one edit before the "automatic" (i.e. as soon as an admin notices) temporary block for edit warring, which happens after four edits that revert/undo someone else's edit: the original posting of the link doesn't count because it didn't undo anything) 23:56:12 [[User:Miui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192272&oldid=192265 * Miui * (+54) /* Archiving efforts */ archived '''''' 23:57:15 [[Kolakoski sequence]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192273&oldid=190496 * Blashyrkh * (+214) [[-]] kolakoski sequence impl. 23:59:34 hm wait 23:59:54 the language for the implementation of that sequence is actually really interesting