< 1788393612 569073 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :its premise is two turing-incomplete systems which, by conjunction, become turing complete < 1788393631 427896 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :this actually reminds us of an idea we had about a solution to [[Feather]] < 1788393696 850736 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuz from what we read, the problem with the initial idea was with trying to edit how the vm works in a way where the current execution switches to as if the change that was made was always there < 1788393714 886571 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you might be interested in https://esolangs.org/wiki/Along_and_Across < 1788393727 676046 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :checking > 1788393764 562913 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Along and across14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192274 5* 03Ais523 5* (+30) 10caps redirect, so that searches will correctly find a language with a mixed-case name < 1788393840 756494 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :goddamnit < 1788393847 79643 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :those conjectures are such a good nerdsnipe < 1788393866 12401 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyways anyways < 1788393922 136685 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1788393950 260437 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :MarkFan8901: you cant do that and gurantee itll come back to the state it was in cuz the language inside is turing complete < 1788393956 48799 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1788393961 519999 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :you literally couldnt make that work < 1788393973 582601 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :...*unless* the language *inside* the vm wasn't turing complete < 1788393998 779588 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the conjunction of that language and the ability to self modify its vm *was* < 1788394026 640436 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :as in like, the necessary control flow for turing completeness was possible *only* through self modification < 1788394093 539308 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :which makes other things about the language start making sense < 1788394129 71692 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :though we're still not sure if 'true' bootstrapping is possible as we understood it from the logs < 1788394180 840941 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :unless you were to somehow compile a feather interpreter written in feather and `fork()`ed to it all *within* feather itself > 1788394245 434131 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Miui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192275&oldid=192272 5* 03Miui 5* (+66) 10/* Archiving efforts */ < 1788394252 49867 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :to word it differently, you arent really able to bootstrap it without *some* start because at the end of the day you still need to actually run it on your computer < 1788394255 800386 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :one way or another < 1788394282 348476 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :but yea with those caveats we think [[Feather]] is completely possible < 1788394297 721249 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :going back through our ideas about it actually made us realize the similarities between it and ralsei < 1788394335 431439 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuz ralsei also relies completely on self modification for the most basic shit like function calling (which we just successfully wrote a program for actually!!) < 1788394356 862931 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, there definitely is a start in terms of how you run it, that just isn't visible from inside the running Feather interpreter, which believes it's been implemented inside another Feather interpreter as an infinite regress < 1788394373 634993 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :ahh wait < 1788394385 80553 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :so you could treat the meta-interpreter stack as a lazy list < 1788394406 612555 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm wait though this begs the question < 1788394415 67975 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :could a non-tc language interpret itself? < 1788394427 496380 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, there's an HQ9+ variant that has a self-interpreter < 1788394437 114205 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but this is almost certainly cheating < 1788394441 780648 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea < 1788394452 7346 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :incredibly funny thing to know off hand tho < 1788394497 640954 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :theres also the trivial case of that hq9+ variant where the *only* thing you can do is self-interpret < 1788394560 742891 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :yknow thinking about it, ralsei restricted so that you cant edit the run cut isnt tc < 1788394566 400986 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :at most its total cuz it always halts < 1788394589 577399 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuz you cant edit where the position of the run cut is, therefore you cant do any jumps and therefore no backwards jumps < 1788394597 641206 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :..actually wait that just makes it a dafsa < 1788394631 57146 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :shits less powerful than regex without smoc < 1788394662 7835 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what's the first "a" in "dafsa"? < 1788394667 575432 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :acyclic < 1788394674 693892 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, ouch < 1788394691 982144 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea < 1788394692 483294 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm < 1788394701 643731 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :good computational class if you want to make absolutely sure there isn't enough control flow to be TC < 1788394713 611698 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes 100% < 1788394743 902157 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :we're wondering how powerful itd be if you could access the run cut like a normal cut, but not change it > 1788394811 328143 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Miui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192276&oldid=192275 5* 03Miui 5* (-5) 10/* personal esopages */ < 1788394812 8903 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :it *might* be tc, you could definitely implement loops and you could technically type stuff into the run cut < 1788394820 289217 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually wait okay < 1788394839 999039 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :the main limitation we were thinking of was that you can only type stuff in cuts at their cursor < 1788394854 328113 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is basically the instruction pointer for the run cut < 1788394895 662693 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :but you could bypass this by first typing whatever code you want in a separate cut, then copying it back into the run cut at an offset < 1788394901 548000 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuz the `copy` instruction lets you do that < 1788394942 265870 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :so yea no you could still implement functions with that restriction, no matter how jankily < 1788394949 13526 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :which would make ralsei with that restriction tc < 1788394960 512399 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :being able to copy new code to the location in front of the instruction pointer (so that the instruction pointer runs into it) can be enough control flow for Turing-completeness, if the rest of the language is powerful enough < 1788394977 606770 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there is an interpretation of Underload in which it acts like that < 1788394992 355933 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :we remember its how [[SMITH]] works < 1788394998 30430 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :or [[SMITH#]] we cant remember < 1788395055 523496 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, languages like SMITH and Forte I think just append to the program, rather than necessarily inserting at the specific location where the instruction pointer is < 1788395056 441416 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :but yea you could implement functions in exactly the manner we did but instead of switching the run cut it just pastes it into the next part of the code < 1788395074 172723 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: ye and they still manage to be tc < 1788395078 294263 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Forte can move lines around arbitrarily, whereas SMITH may be restricted to the end) < 1788395130 624370 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh we should also say theres instructions that can give you the position of the cursor/the size of the cut respectively < 1788395162 262410 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :which we feel like would let you do arithmetic with them to get the exact place you wanna put your code in < 1788395178 342126 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :so yea the rest of the language is powerful enough to carry the tc-ness to the finish line < 1788395342 919306 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually wait.... < 1788395379 201002 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :perhaps ralsei without smoc could take a movfuscator approach? < 1788395393 830574 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuz there are conditionals and arithmetic stuff at any rate < 1788395422 902561 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait no thats limited by the fact all the instructions take literals > 1788395500 299696 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Miui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192277&oldid=192276 5* 03Miui 5* (-91) 10/* actually hilarious */ > 1788396459 695066 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Miui/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192278&oldid=192215 5* 03Miui 5* (+1100) 10 > 1788396541 470512 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Miui/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192279&oldid=192278 5* 03Miui 5* (-1100) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/192278|192278]] by [[Special:Contributions/Miui|Miui]] ([[User talk:Miui|talk]]) > 1788396825 38933 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Aheui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192280&oldid=187768 5* 03Miui 5* (-148) 10/* Lost Kingdom */ removed link cause of some type of reasoning that im too tired to argue with > 1788396991 111041 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Miui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192281&oldid=192277 5* 03Miui 5* (-35) 10/* personal esopages */ changed mirror to other place cause of some type of reasoning ok imma take a shower now o7 > 1788397024 610244 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Miui14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192282&oldid=192281 5* 03Miui 5* (+34) 10/* personal esopages */ changed mirror to other place cause of some type of reasoning ok imma take a shower now o7 < 1788399230 604648 :amby!~ambylastn@46.162.147.147.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement < 1788399389 443278 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] raiseafloppafan > 1788400695 180430 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Miui/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192283&oldid=192279 5* 03Miui 5* (+235) 10 > 1788400766 322424 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Miui/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192284&oldid=192283 5* 03Miui 5* (-235) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/192283|192283]] by [[Special:Contributions/Miui|Miui]] ([[User talk:Miui|talk]]) > 1788401299 754929 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07File:Starcraft.png14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192285&oldid=187364 5* 03Miui 5* (+38) 10some pastebin activities of mine sorry < 1788402144 52832 :^[!~user@user//x-8473491 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1788402425 319083 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:1414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192286&oldid=190904 5* 03Marcus 2n2 5* (+136) 10 > 1788402602 472444 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!4warning14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192287&oldid=186837 5* 03Miui 5* (+93) 10moved link to some other place and stuff and things < 1788402870 474738 :^[!~user@user//x-8473491 JOIN #esolangs ^[ :user < 1788402984 297095 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had thought of category of regular expressions that I had mentioned before. I think one functor would be making each character in a regular expression optional (individually). < 1788403086 159486 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Another class of functors (one for each natural number) would be making each character in both regular expressions and strings duplicated the specified number of times instead of once (if the number is 1, then it is a identity functor, and if the number is 0, then everything is mapped to the identity morphism of a empty regular expression). < 1788403249 251734 :X-Scale!~ARM@148.69.194.77 PRIVMSG #esolangs :have some new interesting programming language concept been discovered while developing all those very exotic languages? like something fundamental > 1788403673 443153 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:1414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192288&oldid=192286 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+187) 10 < 1788404473 164294 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I think the first one that I mentioned, with making each character individually optional, would also make a comonad, maybe) > 1788404802 266108 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02File:Starcraft.png10]]": uploader request, only used in userspace < 1788404837 926995 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1788406374 590510 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Miui/RetroArch Cheats14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192289&oldid=192110 5* 03Miui 5* (+45) 10/* Examples */ fixed link > 1788406425 104632 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07?index.php14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192290&oldid=191757 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+116) 10how come [[I/D machine]] be useful??? < 1788407834 733485 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: hmm, so it's just a single DESTDIR prefix, no variables per each install directory? weird < 1788407837 843568 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :thank you < 1788407882 546318 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: there are variables per install directory but they're the same for the compile-time "place installed files here" location and the run-time "run the program from here" location < 1788407914 59053 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the basic idea behind DESTDIR is that the DESTDIR directory's directory structure is a mirror of that of the root filesystem you're installing on < 1788407935 323879 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and packaging tools take a directory that looks like that as input < 1788408177 482228 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: for a packaging tool that works, but if I'm not making a package but directly cross-installing to a different system whose file systems I have mounted in different places then it won't work < 1788408210 516977 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I think it still works if one root filesystem is mounted directly inside the other < 1788408212 546357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but at least this seems to suggest that there isn't a standard convention for that, so I can just make up whatever variables I want, at least until I find evidence of an existing convention < 1788408223 473305 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and make them default to prefixing DESTDIR that is < 1788408312 589034 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess DESTDIR+tar works for the cross-install situation < 1788408320 899217 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :tar up the DESTDIR, then untar in the root of the other computer < 1788408330 250515 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(from the point of view of its directory layout) < 1788408418 798966 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :goodnight < 1788408432 209010 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :night < 1788408432 768364 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :For my own projects, I wrote my own program to make the "tar" file for distribution, because the existing "tar" program is inadequate. < 1788408465 415848 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(although, the existing "tar" program is good for many other uses of "tar" file format, even though not this one) < 1788408472 64735 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: does it create tar files in any of the standard formats (e.g. POSIX tar / USTAR / GNU tar), or do you have your own variant of it? < 1788408615 374279 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :The resulting file is compatible with GNU tar (I have tested it with "tar t"), and uses the format figured out from the combination of GNU source code and from examination of tar files produced by GNU (which do not always exactly match what is documented in the GNU source code). < 1788408702 585671 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :The "magic" field says "ustar" in the files generated by my program. > 1788408721 968946 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Raiseafloppafan774114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192291&oldid=192241 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+644) 10 > 1788408766 169851 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UserMade14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192292&oldid=170200 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+67) 10categorization > 1788408775 904553 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UserMade14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192293&oldid=192292 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (-1) 10oops > 1788408782 116940 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UserMade14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192294&oldid=192293 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+1) 10... > 1788408827 385418 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Boink14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192295&oldid=168293 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+128) 10categorization < 1788408893 602842 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :See https://raw.githubusercontent.com/zzo38/superzz0/refs/heads/trunk/misc/maketar.c if you want to see the actual program > 1788408990 920586 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TerraScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192296&oldid=154595 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+110) 10categorization < 1788409263 862157 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Is there something that you think would potentially cause a problem? > 1788409551 163216 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Karvity14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192297&oldid=192245 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-88) 10/* See also */ Currently its class is not known, sadly > 1788409602 262893 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Desmoslang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192298&oldid=109585 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+84) 10year, implemented, and unknown computational class categories > 1788409622 560441 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Desmoslang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192299&oldid=192298 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+0) 10wdym 2026??? > 1788409745 99622 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bracket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192300&oldid=183345 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+115) 10some more categories < 1788410266 102478 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Ping timeout: 262 seconds < 1788410411 230147 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :als523: also this still leaves my other question of how to expect the user wants to specify a different directory for where the shared libraries for a dependency is found at link-time vs at runtime < 1788410442 67498 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but maybe at runtime is not the build system's problem at all > 1788410728 641670 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192301&oldid=186202 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+1664) 10/* uhh */ new section > 1788410771 58720 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192302&oldid=192301 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+378) 10/* uhh */ > 1788410858 735508 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Spiki.pirwu 5* 10New user account > 1788411314 127589 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192303&oldid=192264 5* 03Spiki.pirwu 5* (+181) 10 < 1788414011 826148 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Windows' solution to this is interesting, a shared library comes as two files, one which is used only at runtime and one which is used only for linking < 1788414072 184149 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the "used for linking" file is basically just a list of symbols plus information about how to locate them in the "used at runtime" version of the library, it doesn't contain the library's code) < 1788414118 523121 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which one is used for symbolic debugging? > 1788414127 680381 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Segmentation fault14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192304&oldid=191580 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+904) 10/* Implementation */ Add C89 example and correct the C++ examples, also explain why the C/C++ and Pascal ones work < 1788414146 232412 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also can't you generate the compile time one from the runtime one easily? < 1788414150 848917 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can < 1788414158 967004 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's a program to do it < 1788414181 76607 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, that's what I recalled > 1788414235 325780 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mixed allocators14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192305&oldid=190531 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+168) 10/* Examples */ [[Segmentation fault]] interpreter < 1788414252 439319 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, maybe all this is workarounds for compilers not understanding dynamic libraries < 1788414273 389010 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can hardly blame them, most people don't understand dynamic libraries < 1788414311 425920 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it has meant that on Windows, there's no expectation that you have your dynamic-library dependencies available in the expected runtime place at link time < 1788414332 849984 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and also opens up the possibility of linking the program before the dynamic libraries are built > 1788414370 484738 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Use-after-free14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192306&oldid=190532 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+208) 10/* Examples */ [[Segmentation fault]] interpreter < 1788414393 808738 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think I don't understand static or dynamic < 1788414400 527125 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fwiw, I'm not a huge fan of shared libraries, all but the very mosty widely ones (like libc) don't get linked into enough programs to give substantial memory/disk savings and many programs end up shipping their own versions of them anyway (in which case the only advantage over static linking is allowing the library to be swapped out without needing a (static) relink) < 1788414429 590077 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* very most widely used ones < 1788414521 890236 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe, but if we want to implement dynamic libraries for the more widely linked ones, then I don't see why we shouldn't also use them for other libraries < 1788414639 7210 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :one potential reason is that if you have few enough dynamic libraries, you can coordinate to give them all standard offsets from each other, meaning there's no need for an actual dynamic linking step (which tends to be complicated, both causing performance issues and increasing attack surface) < 1788414658 558214 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I prefer to avoid needing too many dependencies, so dynamic libraries are usually only used when included with the operating system or if specified in a user configuration file. (However, avoiding too many dependencies would also include avoiding too many static dependencies as well.) < 1788414746 427775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: we need something like a dynamic linking step for runtime dispatching between different versions of functions anyway, don't we? < 1788414763 763781 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure what you mean by that < 1788414794 74837 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :like for when you compile a single executable with an AVX512 and an AVX2 version of some vector computation function, and at program startup time the right one gets linked < 1788414819 95450 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :both gcc and rustc offer significant help to do this these days < 1788414825 129149 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though they're not perfect < 1788414830 892548 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, I see < 1788414852 908991 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this also has a lot of attack surface, of course (it's how the xz-utils malware worked) < 1788414862 118321 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I know there's the alternative of compiling seprate executable versions of the whole program and just adding a stub that loads the right one < 1788414886 155175 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also the alternative of just adding a couple of if statements at strategic locations < 1788414898 605578 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(which isn't quite zero-cost, but can be cheap if you keep them out of inner loops) < 1788414928 754647 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the alternative of providing multiple separate executables for download, too > 1788415162 613900 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Michal92299 5* 10New user account < 1788416046 547804 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1788416163 43022 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] raiseafloppafan < 1788417047 63851 :X-Scale!~ARM@148.69.194.77 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1788418454 99142 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07?index.php14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192307&oldid=192290 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+21) 10add end thing < 1788420298 478504 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1788420698 36827 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] raiseafloppafan < 1788421294 44564 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 242 seconds < 1788422290 504669 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi < 1788423094 35050 :callforjudgement!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1788423178 161459 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1788423693 916203 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192308&oldid=192302 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+815) 10 < 1788424387 43849 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Yayimheretoo < 1788424394 21327 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hello once again < 1788424480 641124 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hello2u2 😌 < 1788424494 758706 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :APic: How ya doin? < 1788424499 685707 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Fine, fine < 1788424510 171385 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Breakfasting Oat-Milk < 1788424513 135088 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Nom nom nom 😋 < 1788424514 347560 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice < 1788424515 483192 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimheretoo: And You? < 1788424516 322525 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lmao < 1788424536 606097 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :APic: im good, though I am sick, but it does mean I get more time to do computer things < 1788424577 51969 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i have sadly begun to have a slight aversion to esolanging, as everything I maake seems so abstract and weird noawadys < 1788424580 687619 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*nowadays < 1788424585 636033 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimheretoo: Good Betterment! < 1788424592 10578 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :And enjoy Your Computing Time! 😌 < 1788424593 293553 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :APic: thanks! < 1788424595 178855 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :yw < 1788424595 270094 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol < 1788424633 632736 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :btw APic imm curious have you created any esolangs? < 1788424705 247828 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Nope < 1788424710 67715 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh < 1788424715 997002 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: < 1788424716 130095 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimheretoo: do you know about car? no magic? < 1788424729 561 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol I love fungot funniest shit I seen < 1788424729 187826 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimheretoo: a tool for every job in somalia. :) < 1788424739 859350 :callforjudgement!~ais523@user/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1788424765 449293 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :seems fungot has provided lots of support to somalia then < 1788424765 775406 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimheretoo: yes, but i can do so in illustrious places like mit, but are you certain your syntax definition is wrong, < 1788424779 504835 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure < 1788424785 614796 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also hello ais523! < 1788424791 597967 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi < 1788424802 863793 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :was actually just considering disconnecting, but I can stay connected a few minutes longer < 1788424832 730325 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol < 1788424861 587240 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean I just saw you came js now(? I think) and wanted to great ya, so dont let me hold you if you wanna go < 1788424899 305622 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Good Morning ais523 🖖 < 1788424924 691280 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I hadn't been paying attention for so long that I got disconnected and came back on an alt nick < 1788424927 85770 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and only just noticed < 1788424938 661142 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Better late then never ;=P < 1788424952 562459 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: ah, makes sense < 1788425074 613917 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1788425095 516522 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Quit: quit is great < 1788425107 186489 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Quit: yes could be funnier though > 1788425556 581166 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Purely Object-Oriented Producer-based/Constructorless Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192309&oldid=181612 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+21428) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/181612|181612]] by [[Special:Contributions/RaiseAfloppaFan3925|RaiseAfloppaFan3925]] ([[User talk:RaiseAfloppaFan3925|talk]]) [noo come back] < 1788426569 75079 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] raiseafloppafan < 1788426685 918294 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 QUIT :Client Quit < 1788426712 320819 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] raiseafloppafan < 1788426718 72434 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 QUIT :Client Quit < 1788426734 34604 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] raiseafloppafan > 1788427134 918488 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Raiseafloppafan7741/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192310&oldid=191576 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+14073) 10/* IF UPPERCASE KEYWORDS == ESOTERIC THEN DIE ELSE DIE END */ stop taking 10 minutes to load > 1788427511 435257 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Raiseafloppafan774114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192311&oldid=192291 5* 03Raiseafloppafan7741 5* (+128) 10/* 2025-2026 - flop era */ add 2 > 1788427663 429765 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03CDEV 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Icosphere.gif10]]" > 1788428039 273057 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03CDEV 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:3D Renderer.gif10]]" > 1788428180 211451 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Filmstock14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192314 5* 03CDEV 5* (+1791) 10Added information about the Filmstock language. < 1788428249 824820 :X-Scale!~ARM@148.69.194.77 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :ARM - Advanced RISC Machines > 1788428382 528433 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Filmstock14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192315&oldid=192314 5* 03CDEV 5* (+21) 10/* Technical details */ > 1788428488 371050 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Filmstock14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192316&oldid=192315 5* 03CDEV 5* (+44) 10/* Lore */ < 1788428703 967207 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1788428704 36341 :Yayimheretoo!~Yayimhere@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1788429197 73970 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Filmstock14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192317&oldid=192316 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+186) 10cat > 1788429301 689369 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Filmstock14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192318&oldid=192317 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (-36) 10dont start pages with a subsection > 1788429378 655660 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Filmstock14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192319&oldid=192318 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (-34) 10move the github repo link to an external resources subsection > 1788429397 126485 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Filmstock14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192320&oldid=192319 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+62) 10/* External resources */ huh? > 1788429472 679129 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Filmstock14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192321 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+227) 10question > 1788429612 982217 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Miui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192322&oldid=192282 5* 03Miui 5* (+88) 10/* Archiving efforts */ https://iannmiui-png.github.io/wiki/QuineAvoiding(%22%E6%BC%A2%E5%AD%97%22,%20%22%22)/ > 1788429621 646073 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Filmstock14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192323&oldid=192320 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+38) 10fix > 1788429779 605628 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Miui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192324&oldid=192322 5* 03Miui 5* (+112) 10/* Constant languages */ *[[ConstantLanguage("https://iannmiui-png.github.io/wiki/QuineAvoiding(%22%E6%BC%A2%E5%AD%97%22,%20%22%22)")]]/ > 1788430470 408025 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Filmstock14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192325&oldid=192323 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+9) 10mark as stub < 1788430916 588878 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot, do you bake cakes from right-handed batter? < 1788430916 920676 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: i once pondered the idea of fnord definition is fixed up to turn that into a macro that's basically a list of users."? < 1788430937 243238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(re https://xkcd.com/3293/ ) < 1788431024 133609 :somefan_!~somefan@2607:fb90:eaad:c876:90e4:f57e:b6d4:a060 JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1788431148 180897 :somefan!~somefan@user/somefan QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1788431513 424584 :somefan_!~somefan@2607:fb90:eaad:c876:90e4:f57e:b6d4:a060 NICK :somefan < 1788431558 968942 :somefan!~somefan@2607:fb90:eaad:c876:90e4:f57e:b6d4:a060 CHGHOST ~somefan :user/somefan < 1788432093 77114 :somefan!~somefan@user/somefan QUIT :Ping timeout: 243 seconds > 1788432438 545894 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07QuineAvoiding("", "")14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192326&oldid=191573 5* 03Miui 5* (+45) 10/* External resources */ update online demo to route around my personal webpage cause i accidently left some old links or something and people are like 1/17th of my skillzzzz 1337 > 1788432750 623000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Miui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192327&oldid=192324 5* 03Miui 5* (+118) 10/* Archiving efforts */ > 1788433213 546349 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Miui/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192328&oldid=192284 5* 03Miui 5* (+70) 10move .: to WIP section > 1788433334 59569 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192329 5* 03Miui 5* (+2179) 10create  > 1788433341 887529 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nope.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192330&oldid=190658 5* 03FordsTheodore 5* (+779) 10add noisychicken > 1788434952 644088 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Burro14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192331&oldid=172996 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+1181) 10I am satisfied that Burro is Turing-complete < 1788435505 165107 :amby!~ambylastn@46.162.147.147.dyn.plus.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname > 1788435702 11548 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFStack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192332&oldid=119500 5* 03None1 5* (+37) 10 > 1788435717 61901 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:BFStack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192333&oldid=119525 5* 03None1 5* (-1) 10 > 1788435799 645290 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:WSAP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192334&oldid=192255 5* 03Miui 5* (+121) 10 > 1788435808 549782 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07File talk:346px-WY21W lamp.jpg14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192335 5* 03None1 5* (+300) 10Created page with "Is this public domain? --~~~~" > 1788436460 632203 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ChooseMatrix14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192336&oldid=192187 5* 03None1 5* (+784) 10TC > 1788436469 327123 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ChooseMatrix14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192337&oldid=192336 5* 03None1 5* (+0) 10/* Computational class */ > 1788436735 993591 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PROLAN/M14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192338&oldid=191718 5* 03Miui 5* (-17) 10/* External resources */ moved demo link to github pages rather than neocities > 1788436764 28567 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192339&oldid=192254 5* 03None1 5* (+444) 10/* Esolang:Categorization#Languages is inconsistent */ Adding would be easier than removing > 1788436962 425719 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PROLAN/M14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192340&oldid=192338 5* 03Miui 5* (+42) 10/* External resources */ i noticed there has been a lot of edit wars here so i took the liberty of archiving it and providing alternate links > 1788437555 158539 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192341&oldid=190263 5* 03Miui 5* (+1) 10/* Interpreter */ pwned the cccp / maybe just did a normal sincere attempt to be a user / just being weird online / maybe just being a "scummy" who knows!? who cares?! > 1788437852 175797 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07P14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192342&oldid=190262 5* 03Miui 5* (+9) 10/* External resources */ moved it > 1788439268 761880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07A bliss-pit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192343&oldid=181177 5* 03Miui 5* (+37) 10seems like it should be deleted cause it doesnt make the topic of grade, but i can archive it > 1788439623 596735 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07-14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192344&oldid=192163 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+11) 10/* Examples */ fix examples < 1788443097 983956 :aadenboy!~kvirc@172.56.106.150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thank goodness for the esologs, occasional free reading material when I need to burn like 30 or so minutes < 1788443306 46691 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] raiseafloppafan < 1788444323 81254 :X-Scale!~ARM@148.69.194.77 QUIT :Ping timeout: 267 seconds > 1788444740 739320 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Filmstock14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192345&oldid=192325 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (-12) 10fix cat > 1788445334 929656 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07The Second Coming14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192346&oldid=192210 5* 03Cordership 5* (-65) 10/* Conditional statement */ > 1788445347 500576 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07The Second Coming14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192347&oldid=192346 5* 03Cordership 5* (+9) 10/* Conditional statement */ > 1788445418 277712 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ghmi-Asden Tnauin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192348&oldid=191920 5* 03Cordership 5* (-13) 10 > 1788445428 977919 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Combinatory logic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192349&oldid=188079 5* 03Bobby Jacobs 5* (+749) 10/* An interesting fact about bald eagles */ new section < 1788445442 522794 :X-Scale!~ARM@148.69.192.74 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :ARM - Advanced RISC Machines < 1788445474 96406 :Mrsommer!~mrsommer@2a02-a452-6df7-0-dbd1-62f4-dca1-bc34.fixed6.kpn.net JOIN #esolangs * :Melvin Sommer < 1788445639 48580 :mosdfisdnfdisnf!~mrsommer@2a02-a452-6df7-0-7c7b-257c-9e97-36f5.fixed6.kpn.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1788445737 887144 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Combinatory logic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192350&oldid=192349 5* 03Bobby Jacobs 5* (+225) 10/* An interesting fact about bald eagles */ < 1788445773 816115 :amby!~ambylastn@46.162.147.147.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1788445965 98210 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname > 1788446181 385690 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stexmix14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192351&oldid=186772 5* 03Miui 5* (+18382) 10add example > 1788446334 872792 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Combinatory logic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192352&oldid=192350 5* 03Blashyrkh 5* (+450) 10/* An interesting fact about bald eagles */ > 1788446361 65610 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Combinatory logic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192353&oldid=192352 5* 03Blashyrkh 5* (+0) 10/* An interesting fact about bald eagles */ < 1788447032 238548 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1788447046 50375 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] raiseafloppafan > 1788449971 301667 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Combinatory logic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192354&oldid=192353 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+580) 10/* An interesting fact about bald eagles */ Various alternate expressions < 1788449992 60887 :raiseafloppafan7!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] raiseafloppafan < 1788450207 142134 :raiseafloppafan!~raiseaflo@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1788450879 90476 :Guest42!~Guest42@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest42 < 1788451117 245745 :Guest42!~Guest42@2001:4450:493b:cb00:d993:e8a6:80e8:bcb0 QUIT :Client Quit > 1788451686 254932 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192355 5* 03Assembly 5* (+56) 10Redirected page to [[-#]] > 1788451718 972887 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192356 5* 03Assembly 5* (+60) 10Redirected page to [[-#]] < 1788453513 619335 :somefan!~somefan@96.241.14.210 JOIN #esolangs * :realname > 1788453893 432919 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07File talk:346px-WY21W lamp.jpg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192357&oldid=192335 5* 03Ais523 5* (+316) 10source for public domain status > 1788454899 126789 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07File talk:346px-WY21W lamp.jpg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192358&oldid=192357 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+257) 10 < 1788458769 236406 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs lisbeths :lisbeths < 1788459712 580777 :inhahe!~inhahe@user/inhahe QUIT :Quit: Bouncer shutting down < 1788460236 154863 :inhahe!~inhahe@user/inhahe JOIN #esolangs inhahe :exalumen.blog - iyaelsorai.wordpress.com < 1788460262 409481 :chloetax!~chloe@user/chloetax QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1788460294 307711 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:CodePentuplets4814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192359&oldid=188030 5* 03CodePentuplets48 5* (+101) 10 < 1788460607 675422 :lzg!~lzg@user/lzg JOIN #esolangs lzg :Lau < 1788461548 484691 :chloetax!~chloe@user/chloetax JOIN #esolangs chloetax :chloe < 1788462364 39693 :somefan!~somefan@96.241.14.210 QUIT :Ping timeout: 269 seconds < 1788464798 277424 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :cu 😴 > 1788467825 893809 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dsii14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192360&oldid=179500 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+13) 10 > 1788468169 530236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Morshu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192361&oldid=179321 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+192) 10 > 1788468429 239276 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Relations14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192362 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+3833) 10+[[Relations]] > 1788468455 809159 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192363&oldid=192184 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+16) 10+[[Relations]] > 1788468470 776431 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192364&oldid=191516 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+16) 10+[[Relations]] > 1788468533 253579 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Relations14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192365&oldid=192362 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+33) 10 > 1788468615 858984 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Relations14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192366&oldid=192365 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+13) 10 < 1788468994 664038 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN #esolangs * :MarkFan8901 < 1788469043 221861 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :we've been thinking about our idea of a language whose syntax is tc < 1788469065 176988 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :something we just came up with is having () and {} brackets interleave < 1788469071 455463 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :ie ({)} is legal < 1788469100 703609 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :and within the () and {}, the { and ) (respectively) are both operators < 1788469139 200639 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :so ie (a{b)c} would be both the statement (a { b) and {b ) c} < 1788469177 50482 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is a really natural way to map the { and ) tokens to more than one node of a tree at the same time < 1788469215 787351 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :which, in generator terms, is effectively rewriting a terminal into two different nonterminals < 1788469256 586937 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :something only unrestricted grammars can do (aka string rewriting systems (aka something turing complete)) < 1788469582 690393 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :yknow a lot of our ideas on that language have been thinking about ways to make the grammar *almost* ambiguous < 1788469624 54445 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :but juust unambiguous enough to still be parsed deterministically < 1788469659 174755 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :we've thought before that loops could be done by 'flip-flopping' between two different parser states < 1788469686 959517 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :ie if having token A in parenthenses would then require having A also be in curly braces < 1788469709 9014 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :so like, (...A...) -> {...A...} < 1788469768 83780 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :uh we cant think of anything clever to follow that up with off the top of our head ;w; < 1788469783 693982 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :but a trivial loop could be having {...A...} -> (...A...) again < 1788469922 699065 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :if there actually was a tc syntax whose control flow was via different 'modes' which were mutually ambiguous, we wonder if that would mean nondeterministic machines could solve them in a finite amount of time < 1788469928 661444 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually no wait it wouldnt < 1788469992 919360 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuz you would still have to have *one* recognition of the string at the end of the day (ambiguity =/= nondeterminism) < 1788470024 14580 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :..maybe nondeterministic machines could detect loops in a language like that? < 1788470037 818798 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :or no ambiguous machines could < 1788470114 263224 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :at any rate we really wanna see others try their hand at making a turing complete syntax < 1788470164 210679 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :we might put some rules done for clarification if anyone does (a basic one is you cant loop tc semantics through the syntax, like perl and latex) but we are a little tired < 1788470783 10705 :FreeFull!~freefull@user/FreeFull PRIVMSG #esolangs :MarkFan8901: You could name it Venn < 1788470786 905874 :FreeFull!~freefull@user/FreeFull PRIVMSG #esolangs :Unless that's already taken < 1788471188 731542 :MarkFan8901!~MarkFan89@c-71-63-140-97.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :surprisingly that is somehow not taken yet > 1788472700 211590 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:S14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192367&oldid=190488 5* 03Gribnit 5* (+214) 10/* Eye-twitch survey */ new section < 1788475865 390837 :somefan!~somefan@96.241.14.210 JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1788475891 294660 :somefan!~somefan@96.241.14.210 CHGHOST ~somefan :user/somefan > 1788477602 326566 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Funciton14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192368&oldid=190815 5* 03Timwi 5* (+130) 10Adding another array function < 1788478263 93596 :X-Scale!~ARM@148.69.192.74 QUIT :Ping timeout: 251 seconds < 1788478735 692414 :X-Scale!~ARM@148.69.192.74 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :ARM - Advanced RISC Machines