00:02:28 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192894&oldid=192893 * Cordership * (-25) 
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00:05:32 <raiseafloppafan7> fungot: what time is it
00:05:32 <fungot> raiseafloppafan7: at the current file is created, variables do not reduce the size of programs which you've listed both quickly and easily to any memory configuration that is set when an end or identify ( eoi) set the cursor control not affected by " quote mode.
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00:14:29 <fizzie> Let's see now.
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00:15:29 <aadenboy> esolangs: create an esolang
00:15:54 <fizzie> Hrm.
00:17:36 <fizzie> (I didn't actually bother testing the change, because it's such a hassle.)
00:19:38 <fizzie> Oh, it's because there's a 5-minute delay for the service that actually acts as a pipe to the LLM when it gets disconnected from the IRC bot (which happened when I restarted it).
00:20:01 <fizzie> It should start working... well, 30 seconds ago, actually.
00:20:36 <aadenboy> ah
00:20:41 <aadenboy> esolangs: create an esolang
00:20:49 <esolangs> aadenboy: Based on the provided information, creating an esolang involves defining a language with its own syntax and semantics. The examples of Treescript and demonstrate this, each with unique features like method definitions, layer structures, and tree-based execution. ⚶ utilizes a pointer and node system for computation, while Treescript draws...
00:20:49 <esolangs> inspiration from JavaScript, Python, and Lua. No single, standardized method exists for creating an esolang; it's a bespoke process.
00:20:55 <aadenboy> there we go
00:21:20 <aadenboy> ⚶...?
00:21:30 <aadenboy> oh
00:22:13 <fizzie> It used the articles [[Treescript]], [[T]] and [[⚶]] as sources, after searching for the keyword "creation" using the MediaWiki search.
00:24:03 <fizzie> esolangs: Propose a trivial brainfuck substitution with an octopus theme for the commands.
00:26:47 <fizzie> (Still thinking. I wonder if it's going to hit that 5-minute timeout even.)
00:29:03 <esolangs> fizzie: [500 Internal Server Error] generating response: http: Post "http://localhost:11434/api/generate": context deadline exceeded [#65ac584d521af]
00:29:14 <fizzie> Bah. I was hoping it'd be _faster_ now that it's running slightly GPU-assisted, but apparently not.
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00:38:44 <zzo38> I think that randomly generated esolangs from picking features won't do quite as well since the other way to make up the esolangs is to make up new ideas which do not match the existing ones (although the way of picking properties can have a different use of e.g. figuring out which subsets have specific other properties that come out from them rather than deliberately put in or selected)
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01:11:40 <aadenboy> zzo38: it'd be more like plagiarism: you go around looking at what all of the esolangs have and then "borrow" them as possible features the new randomly generated esolang can use
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01:28:49 <esolangs> [[Cats]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192895&oldid=169032 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+283) cat(egorization) and trivial bf substitution
01:31:14 <esolangs> [[Trivial brainfuck substitution]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192896&oldid=192889 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+138) /* Example Members of the TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution family */ Add [[Cats]]
01:33:52 <esolangs> [[Invy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192897&oldid=113865 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+178) categorization
01:37:48 <esolangs> [[Cotwo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192898&oldid=160228 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+201) categorization
01:41:29 <esolangs> [[MoreThanZero]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192899&oldid=181408 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+199) categorization
01:43:22 <esolangs> [[2dLang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192900&oldid=123293 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+49) categorize as cellular automaton
01:43:45 <esolangs> [[2dLang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192901&oldid=192900 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+68) unknown computational class and unimplemented
01:50:00 <esolangs> [[Trivial brainfuck substitution]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192902&oldid=192896 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+271) /* Example Members of the TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution family */ Add [[InternationalFuck]]
01:53:02 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * CoderThomasB *  New user account
01:55:24 <esolangs> [[Rizzlang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192903&oldid=178996 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (-25) remove contradictory category
01:56:25 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192904&oldid=192868 * CoderThomasB * (+159) 
01:56:39 <esolangs> [[Hex2]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192905&oldid=99537 * CoderThomasB * (+9) M0 is related to Hex2
01:57:44 <esolangs> [[M0]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192906&oldid=99540 * CoderThomasB * (+11) 
01:58:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:Rizzlang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192907 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+392) Created page with "rizzlang mogs all other esolangs so far but the question is who can mog rizzlang and is it even possible ~~~~"
01:58:31 <aadenboy> shout out to the editors which join only to fix a particular issue
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02:02:11 <esolangs> [[Trivial brainfuck substitution]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192908&oldid=192902 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+177) /* Example Members of the TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution family */ Add [[Gen Alpha Brainrot]]
02:08:13 <esolangs> [[Assembliera]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192909&oldid=126265 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+437) some more categories + computational class
02:11:35 <esolangs> [[Ns2dL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192910&oldid=134578 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+86) year + unknown computational class + unimplemented
02:14:43 <esolangs> [[010C+3C+2dC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192911&oldid=108734 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+80) year + unimplemented
02:16:50 <esolangs> [[Dash-end]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192912&oldid=112286 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+88) more categorization
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02:17:57 <esolangs> [[Recorder]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192913&oldid=181579 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+86) some more categorization
02:19:05 -!- Sgeo has joined.
02:24:14 <esolangs> [[Zcurrry]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192914&oldid=192739 * FordsTheodore * (+0) woops
02:24:58 <esolangs> [[Dropsort]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192915&oldid=117507 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+329) add example implementation
02:26:15 <esolangs> [[Alivehyperfish/examples]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192916&oldid=144454 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+23) categorize as example
02:27:19 <esolangs> [[Print "deadfish"]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192917&oldid=157653 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+121) some more categorization
02:29:12 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192918&oldid=192894 * Cordership * (+62) /* Instructions */
02:30:35 <esolangs> [[Trivial brainfuck substitution]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192919&oldid=192908 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+163) /* Example Members of the TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution family */ add [[Pep & Chz]]
02:30:40 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192920&oldid=192918 * Cordership * (+54) 
02:32:25 <esolangs> [[RaiseAfloppaFan's Stupid Idea 0]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192921&oldid=191917 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (-18) -2 categories that aren't needed anymore
02:36:51 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192922&oldid=192920 * Cordership * (+10) 
02:38:43 <esolangs> [[Function V]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192923&oldid=178835 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+214) categories and stuff
02:41:50 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192924&oldid=192922 * Cordership * (+38) 
02:43:20 <esolangs> [[Spider's Square]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192925&oldid=33155 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+181) categorization, very interesting language
02:44:50 <esolangs> [[Befunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192926&oldid=184913 * Cordership * (-29) /* 1D Factorial */
02:45:13 <esolangs> [[Czure]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192927&oldid=115054 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+84) this isn't esoteric, it's just the C variant my C compiler uses instead of normal C for some reason
02:47:00 <esolangs> [[Befunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192928&oldid=192926 * Cordership * (+29) /* 1D Factorial */
02:51:34 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192929&oldid=192924 * Cordership * (+143) 
02:53:41 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192930&oldid=192929 * Cordership * (-39) 
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03:01:45 <esolangs> [[Brainbitch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192931&oldid=188107 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+579) Formatting and categorization, why is it using Markdown? No offense but seems very AI-generated, remove the generated by AI category and explain if it's not
03:06:05 <esolangs> [[KaoLang ()]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192932&oldid=183873 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+2) stuff
03:07:25 <esolangs> [[+=-, -=+]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192933&oldid=162488 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+163) categorization
03:11:57 <esolangs> [[Brainbitch]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192934&oldid=192931 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+26) minor formatting + see also
03:12:08 <esolangs> [[Brainbitch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192935&oldid=192934 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (-25) wait a sec this isn't non-textual
03:13:36 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192936&oldid=192930 * Cordership * (+426) 
03:16:20 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192937&oldid=192936 * Cordership * (+4) 
03:17:05 <raiseafloppafan7> fungot: can you write code in TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL?
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03:19:24 <esolangs> [[OISC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192938&oldid=191125 * None1 * (+192) /* List of OISCs */  Add [[ChooseMatrix]]
03:20:08 <esolangs> [[OISC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192939&oldid=192938 * None1 * (+0) /* List of OISCs */
03:33:18 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192940&oldid=192180 * None1 * (+469) /* Page deletion request */ new section
03:36:26 <esolangs> [[Talk:PlusOrMinus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192941&oldid=114912 * None1 * (+0) 
03:53:30 <aadenboy> ^style irc
03:53:30 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
03:53:34 <aadenboy> fungot: Acn wijirre emi heeronn, vgemqsine, rtaftto soearen hsaterne, noh?
03:53:34 <fungot> aadenboy: no no no. how would you match " everything up to the person using the insult may surpass most here, it can
03:55:20 <esolangs> [[A bliss-pit]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192942&oldid=192758 * Salpynx * (-12) /* See also */
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04:52:21 <esolangs> [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192943&oldid=192883 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+347) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/192883|192883]] by [[Special:Contributions/Raiseafloppafan7741|Raiseafloppafan7741]] ([[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741|talk]])
04:52:52 <esolangs> [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192944&oldid=192943 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (-1) why is there a space
05:41:52 <esolangs> [[Pointing]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192945&oldid=191132 * Calculus is fun * (+1) /* Statements */
05:53:34 <esolangs> [[AAAAAA]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192946&oldid=192497 * Reagan1410 * (-2) /* Hello, world! */
05:54:58 <esolangs> [[User:Reagan1410]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192947 * Reagan1410 * (+8) Created page with "Hello :)"
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06:43:50 <esolangs> [[Talk:Safeword]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192948&oldid=192370 * Hakerh400 * (+314) Response
06:52:55 <esolangs> [[Piece of cake]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192949&oldid=179099 * Hakerh400 * (+57) The correct term
06:55:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Hakerh400 *  moved [[User:Hakerh400/Angel problem]] to [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization/Angel problem]]
06:56:13 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192952&oldid=192364 * Hakerh400 * (+14) 
06:59:16 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Esolangs]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192953 * Hakerh400 * (+2000) Add the list of esolangs
07:02:06 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192954&oldid=192952 * Hakerh400 * (-3947) Refactor the user page
07:06:01 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192955 * Hakerh400 * (+167) Add formalization projects
07:07:04 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Misc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192956 * Hakerh400 * (+2042) Add the miscellaneous subpage
07:09:11 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization/Angel problem]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192957&oldid=192950 * Hakerh400 * (-36) Redundant note. Already mentioned in the formalization subpage.
07:58:54 <aadenboy> goodnight
08:02:53 <esolangs> [[-]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192958&oldid=192344 * Dragoneater67mobile * (+1) /* Comments */ excitement
08:12:38 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192959&oldid=192955 * Hakerh400 * (+8210) 
08:18:37 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192960&oldid=192959 * Hakerh400 * (-26) 
08:19:30 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192961&oldid=192960 * Hakerh400 * (+27) 
08:21:26 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192962&oldid=192961 * Hakerh400 * (-5) 
08:23:10 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192963&oldid=192962 * Hakerh400 * (+26) 
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08:27:05 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192964&oldid=192963 * Hakerh400 * (+31) 
08:27:33 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192965&oldid=192964 * Hakerh400 * (+4) 
08:28:27 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192966&oldid=192965 * Hakerh400 * (-10) 
08:29:56 <esolangs> [[Robots.txt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192967&oldid=190063 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+39) 
08:29:59 <esolangs> [[Pilas]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192968 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1687) Created page with "'''Pilas''' is an esolang by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] with two stacks. ==Description== All programs have two lines and based on which line command appears it will refers to that stack. It also has two instruction pointers for each of them. First command at first i
08:30:49 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192969&oldid=192966 * Hakerh400 * (+13) 
08:31:49 <esolangs> [[Robots.txt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192970&oldid=192967 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+3) /* Execution */
08:34:56 <esolangs> [[Piece of cake]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192971&oldid=192949 * Hakerh400 * (+9) 
08:35:05 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192972&oldid=192619 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+11) /* 2026 */
08:35:23 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192973&oldid=192972 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1) /* 2026 */
08:35:38 <esolangs> [[Robots.txt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192974&oldid=192970 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+178) /* Subprograms */
08:35:45 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192975&oldid=192969 * Hakerh400 * (+118) 
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08:39:22 <APic> Hi
08:39:25 <APic> Epic happy Sunday 2 u all!       😎
08:59:37 <esolangs> [[Pilas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192976&oldid=192968 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+78) 
09:08:41 <esolangs> [[Malt]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=192977 * FordsTheodore * (+856) Created page with "{{WIP}} Malt is a [[Deadfish]] derivative.  {| class="wikitable" |+ Caption text |- ! symbol !! name !! operation |- | a || input || input |- | A || shout || output |- | b || goto || jump unconditionally and set PC to instances-1 |- | B || point || move cell pointer l
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09:23:47 <Yayimheretoo> helololo!!!
09:40:56 <esolangs> [[Simpl]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192978&oldid=192827 * Cordership * (+133) 
09:41:53 <esolangs> [[Simpl]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192979&oldid=192978 * Cordership * (+67) /* Recaman sequence */
09:42:23 <esolangs> [[Simpl]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192980&oldid=192979 * Cordership * (+73) /* Syntax */
09:50:46 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192981&oldid=192975 * Hakerh400 * (+0) /* Planned projects */
09:53:37 <esolangs> [[Befunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192982&oldid=192928 * Cordership * (+77) /* Befunge-93 and Befunge-98 */
09:54:14 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192983&oldid=192937 * Cordership * (-73) /* Instructions */
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09:55:40 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192984&oldid=192981 * Hakerh400 * (-1) 
09:55:52 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192985&oldid=192983 * Cordership * (-20) /* Hello, World! */
09:56:26 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192986&oldid=192985 * Cordership * (+50) /* Instructions */
09:56:48 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192987&oldid=192986 * Cordership * (+5) /* Hello, World! */
09:59:53 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192988&oldid=192987 * Cordership * (+57) 
10:00:17 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192989&oldid=192988 * Cordership * (+6) /* Looping counter */
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10:18:11 <esolangs> [[Malt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192990&oldid=192977 * FordsTheodore * (+19) woops again
10:19:42 <esolangs> [[User:Jan jelo/TC proof to Rust type system(and macro rules)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192991&oldid=192851 * Jan jelo * (+51) /* macro_rules! */
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10:36:32 <esolangs> [[Simpl]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192992&oldid=192980 * Cordership * (+161) /* Self-interpreter */
10:40:59 <esolangs> [[Simpl]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192993&oldid=192992 * Cordership * (+136) /* Finding errors */
11:30:08 <esolangs> [[Emanator]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192994&oldid=180600 * PkmnQ * (+46) /* Overview */ Just realized (there might be a better way to word this)
11:34:56 <esolangs> [[Emanator]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192995&oldid=192994 * PkmnQ * (-2) /* Kolakoski sequence */
11:53:22 <esolangs> [[Pilas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192996&oldid=192976 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+36) 
12:14:56 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192997&oldid=192984 * Hakerh400 * (+0) /* Active projects */
12:16:53 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Formalization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192998&oldid=192997 * Hakerh400 * (+3) /* Active projects */
12:18:14 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=192999&oldid=192989 * Cordership * (+2) /* Hello, World! 3 */
12:28:27 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193000&oldid=192999 * Cordership * (+86) /* Instructions */
12:32:08 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193001&oldid=193000 * Cordership * (+33) /* Instructions */
12:42:19 <esolangs> [[Talk:Emanator]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193002&oldid=179585 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+189) 
12:55:57 <esolangs> [[Relations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193003&oldid=192603 * Hakerh400 * (+233) Add two examples
13:05:13 <esolangs> [[Seedd]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=193004 * Fanmad * (+938) Created page with "seedd is an esolang which code completly depends on a seed, originally supposed to be called "seed" but there was already a esolang called like that.  ==instructions== '''''xxxxxxxxxxx''''' - the seed (needs to be always on the top of the code, replace the x'es with actual 
13:21:00 <esolangs> [[Gridify]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193005&oldid=193001 * Cordership * (+0) /* Instructions */
13:26:40 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193006&oldid=188608 * None1 * (+525) 
13:26:50 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193007&oldid=193006 * None1 * (+19) 
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14:08:51 <esolangs> [[AAAAAA]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193008&oldid=192946 * Reagan1410 * (-8) /* hello world */
14:24:25 <esolangs> [[2DWays]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=193009 * Cordership * (+2402) Created page with "2dWays is a Brainfuck derivative made by [[User:Cordership]] that has a 2D tape grid instead of BF's 1D tape. ==Instructions== Here are the instructions: {|class=wikitable ! Command !! Meaning |- | <code>></code> || Move pointer right. |- | <code><</code> || Move poin
14:27:05 <esolangs> [[User:Cordership]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193010&oldid=192701 * Cordership * (+12) 
14:27:36 <esolangs> [[XKCD Random Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193011&oldid=191234 * Cordership * (+22) /* 14 */
14:29:56 <esolangs> [[Quine-Lang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193012&oldid=190930 * Cordership * (+24) /* Quine */
14:33:19 <esolangs> [[Looping counter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193013&oldid=186973 * Cordership * (+64) /* Python */
14:33:31 <esolangs> [[Looping counter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193014&oldid=193013 * Cordership * (-64) /* Python */
14:37:25 <esolangs> [[Seedd]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193015&oldid=193004 * Fanmad * (+1) 
14:42:39 <b_jonas> de7: pretty reliably, these days most cats have an implanted chip that you can access with near field radio
15:24:23 <fizzie> I'm not entirely sure that's true for most of the world's cats, though it's probably true for most cats in certain countries.
16:00:09 <esolangs> [[Emanator]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193016&oldid=192995 * Hakerh400 * (+43) 
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16:19:46 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Fizzylimesoda *  New user account
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17:03:49 <esolangs> [[EsoInterpreters]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193017&oldid=180707 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+676) Paintfuck Self Interpreter was missing
17:11:28 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193018&oldid=192973 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+103) /* TODO list */
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18:17:24 <aadenboy> good morning
18:22:01 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Question for AI models]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193019&oldid=183001 * Hakerh400 * (+136) 
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19:04:37 <esolangs> [[Aubergine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193020&oldid=86563 * Ais523 * (+114) moving content of the tiny [[:Category:Aubergine derivatives]] to a see also list on the Aubergine page
19:05:31 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete  * Ais523 *  deleted "[[Category:Aubergine derivatives]]": undiscussed category, probably too small to be a category and is better implemented as a "see also" list on the Aubergine page
19:31:10 <esolangs> [[Relations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193021&oldid=193003 * Hakerh400 * (+91) 
19:34:22 <esolangs> [[Looping counter]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193022&oldid=193014 * Aadenboy * (-49) /* Lua */ golf further
19:34:40 <esolangs> [[Looping counter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193023&oldid=193022 * Aadenboy * (+4) /* Lua */ link
19:35:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Plastic fence *  New user account
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20:40:49 <APic> cu
20:40:50 <APic> 😴
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20:43:23 <ais523> fizzie: I don't believe there have been any bots running on esolangs.org (not counting scripts and the like that access the database directly rather than going through MediaWiki's normal editing interfaces); I'm the most likely person to have run one, but I checked and I didn't
20:45:22 <ais523> fwiw, there's a clear reason why the OpenAI agents haven't edited esolangs.org – they were restricted to making GET requests only, and creating an account here requires POST
20:46:05 <ais523> (although they eventually found a workaround to this, it was long after they'd already found a wiki they could use to coordinate, so there was no reason to change)
20:47:15 <ais523> I did end up having thoughts on how to build a CAPTCHA to beat LLMs: the idea is to make it interactive and require responses to be given quickly (because LLMs are still extremely slow)
20:48:44 <ais523> humans are slightly better at doing mass category renames and the like than bots are (in terms of producing higher-quality output) as, in my experience, there's normally a small fraction of pages where you want to make a change other than hte obvious one
20:48:46 <ais523> bots are faster, thuogh
20:50:09 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:CakeProphet
20:50:25 <ais523> (re: <fizzie> For context, Cakeprohpet was someone's nickname. <fizzie> Can't remember which channel, though. Might even have been here.)
20:51:52 <ais523> Dupdog (one of CakeProphey's languages) caused quite a bit of discussion when it was first released (on the basis that it looks like it can't possibly be TC, but this is hard to prove)
20:52:51 <zzo38> Requiring a quickly response might cause problems with slow connections, though.
20:54:15 <aadenboy> if it's only renaming that is being done (e.g the casing/hyphenation of the categories) bot editing would work better. assisted editing could work as a middle-ground, something like the HotCat gadget
20:57:32 <ais523> <de67> raiseafloppafan7: Accumulator-based seems to be an undiscussed category ← the category should be called "counter-based" really, I've been meaning to do that officially
20:57:51 <esolangs> [[Quine-Lang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193024&oldid=193012 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+190) /* Implementations */ *NIX systems have an interpreter for this
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20:58:31 <ais523> zzo38: I thought about that, but I think most people have faster connections than a) the scraperbots (because they proxy everything and don't typically run JS on the proxy), and b) the speed at which the typical LLM solves a captcha
20:58:51 <ais523> but it's likely that there would be some false positives and some false negatives
21:01:35 <b_jonas> wait, is that what accumulator-based means? I thought it means something that has very few registers and stores most other things in memory, like the 6502
21:01:47 <b_jonas> or the ID machine or RAM0
21:02:06 <fizzie> Gemini Flash certainly solved our _current_ CAPTCHA faster than a human would. But I guess it's not really designed to differentiate.
21:02:14 <b_jonas> or BMOW-1
21:02:48 <aadenboy>  [[Countable]] would be an example of an accumulator-based language with many (infinite) accumulators, I believe
21:02:54 <aadenboy> or counter-based
21:06:19 <ais523> b_jonas: the category is badly named, which is part of why I want to rename it
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21:07:31 <ais523> but I think I would limit it to languages where the number of counters is fixed by the program, as that's really what makes it different from a RAM or a tape
21:07:46 <ais523> (fixed by the program or by the language)
21:08:26 <esolangs> [[Quine (programming language)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193025&oldid=125251 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+279) see also + single unix specification cat
21:09:55 <b_jonas> ais523: so blindfolded arithmetic would count, or even the ioccc babbage variant of it where the program can choose any number of accumulators?
21:10:05 <ais523> b_jonas: I think so
21:10:20 <ais523> this sort of thing is why we're supposed to discuss categories before creating them, though
21:10:41 <ais523> one decision is, does it matter if you can do things with the counters that are more complicated than increment/decrement?
21:10:55 <ais523> what about sub-TC languages (in particular, does Deadfish count?)
21:12:04 <b_jonas> brainfuck on a limited size tape with bigints too then
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21:12:32 <esolangs> [[Quine-Lang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193026&oldid=193024 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+254) /* Implementations */ SUS mandates cat + DOS/Windows type + PowerShell Get-Content
21:12:54 <ais523> b_jonas: I consider that counter-based, yes
21:13:02 <esolangs> [[Quine (programming language)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193027&oldid=193025 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+209) /* Implementation */ amend my previous statement
21:13:17 <ais523> bounded-tapebignum BF is really quite different from the bounded-cell long-tape version
21:13:28 <ais523> s/eb/e b/
21:13:45 <esolangs> [[Quine-Lang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193028&oldid=193026 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+35) /* See Also */ [[Quine (programming language)]]
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21:14:29 <esolangs> [[Quine-Lang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193029&oldid=193028 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+5) /* Implementations */ uhh friendly reminder to check what you pasted before saving the edit
21:14:50 <esolangs> [[Quine (programming language)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193030&oldid=193027 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (-5) /* Implementation */ same thing as last edit
21:14:53 <aadenboy> how many cells would at minimum be necessary for bounded-tape bf?
21:15:27 <esolangs> [[Quine-Lang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193031&oldid=193029 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+5) /* Implementations */ not again...
21:16:51 <esolangs> [[Quine (programming language)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193032&oldid=193030 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+59) /* Implementation */ echo is also an implementation
21:18:25 <esolangs> [[Quine-Lang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193033&oldid=193031 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+59) /* Implementations */ echo
21:18:28 <ais523> aadenboy: 3
21:19:00 <ais523> I'm not sure whether it's been proven or not that 2 is impossible, but 3 is known to be possible and 2 is unlikely due to control flow restrictions
21:19:12 <aadenboy> makes sense
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21:21:02 <esolangs> [[Text]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193034&oldid=188532 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+51) /* Compilers */ specify where type can be found
21:21:32 <b_jonas> ais523: does 3 require that the cells can store negative integers?
21:21:47 <ais523> b_jonas: I don't think so
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21:23:21 <ais523> I've either never looked at or don't remember the construction, but if I were trying it myself, I'd do something like implementing a multiply/divide 1-counter machine where the value of the counter was stored by multiplying it by k and transferring it between two tape cells, the IP/state is stored in the single counter mod k, and the third cell is always zero and used to break loops
21:24:46 <esolangs> [[Aubergine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193035&oldid=193020 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (-22) fix redlink to deleted category
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21:27:12 <ais523> ah, looks like the known construction is from FRACTRAN: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Collatz_function#Reduction_to_3-cell_brainfuck
21:27:33 <ais523> this is pretty similar to my construction, except that the IP/state is implicit
21:29:08 <aadenboy> is that reduction using a form of AME? or I guess Fractran itself?
21:29:44 <aadenboy> speaking of Fractran, the page for it lacks a TC proof
21:36:19 <ais523> The Waterfall Model compiles into Fractran super-trivially, so the only difficulty there would be checking that the sequence of reductions isn't circular
21:37:37 <ais523> interestingly, this reduction shows that (if there isn't a mistake in the reduction via Spiral Rise) Fractran's TC with only seven fractions
21:42:30 <b_jonas> ais523: that's a good idea, you should probably mention it on the Waterfall Model page or the Fractran page
21:46:47 <ais523> oh, actually it isn't trivial, the compilation leads to fractions which aren't in their lowest terms
21:46:51 <ais523> which is technically not allowed in Fractran
21:46:55 <ais523> this is a subtlety I hadn't noticed before
21:47:20 <ais523> (a good thing I tried to write it down, or I wouldn't have noticed the mistake)
21:48:17 <b_jonas> anyway, I think the easier way to prove Fractran TC is that you can compile any Minsky-machine into it. you represent the states by a prime, which you'll only use with factor one and only one at a time in the accumulator. rules encode a state transition that divides a state and multiplies another, plus they can increment any counter, or they can decrement a counter in a way that fails for zero and falls 
21:48:23 <b_jonas> through to later rules from the same state
21:49:05 <esolangs> [[Kangaroo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193036&oldid=100201 * Ais523 * (+122) mention The Waterfall Model more prominently in the introduction, as TWM is an obvious change from Kangaroo
21:50:09 <esolangs> [[Fractran]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193037&oldid=180304 * B jonas * (+21) /* See also */ [[Minsky machine]]
21:51:34 <ais523> b_jonas: oh yes, that is pretty easy (although it uses a lot more fractions)
21:57:00 <esolangs> [[The Waterfall Model]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193038&oldid=169710 * Ais523 * (+39) rewrite the first paragraph a little, making the background and relationship to other languages clearer
22:26:53 <esolangs> [[Fractran]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193039&oldid=193037 * Hotcrystal0 * (-19) Unnecessary redirect
22:29:02 <b_jonas> ais523: not really. if you merge adjacent increment instructions to one, and adjacent decrement instructions that you know are either infallible or you'll increment the whole sequence if they fail (happens for division) then Minsky machine is generally more efficient than Waterfall.
22:36:34 <ais523> well, my benchmark for Waterfall efficiency is the Spiral Rise interpreter
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22:51:11 <b_jonas> ais523: if you're fine with incrementing or decrementing multiple counters by any values together then Waterfall Model compiles into Minsky machine, so with the optimizations that are obvious when you compile Minsky into Fractran I don't think it'll be much worse.
22:51:29 <b_jonas> you'll be using more primes and larger numbers in Fractran, that much is true
22:52:34 <int-e> b_jonas: you can get away with 2+C primes for C counters; all you need for the state is an antichain in the divisibility order, so p^i q^(n-i) will do the trick
22:52:41 <int-e> hmm
22:52:44 <int-e> no
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22:55:02 <int-e> 4+C will work though, based on this idea, if your states form a bipartite graph which can always be arranged.
22:57:16 <b_jonas> int-e: oh, you can certainly reduce the number of primes
22:58:02 <int-e> Oh 2+C works too, since the fractions are ordered.
22:58:18 <ais523> IIRC the fractions have to be ordered to at least some extent
22:58:37 <ais523> otherwise it isn't TC
22:58:41 <int-e> really
22:59:36 <ais523> oerjan showed me the proof, I'm trying to remember how it worked
22:59:56 <int-e> I guess coming from Minsky machines you need it when translating a test-for-zero.
23:00:04 <ais523> right
23:00:26 <ais523> the proof is sort-of inductive I think, something like proving that if it isn't TC with n primes it isn't TC with n+1 primes either
23:01:06 <int-e> and you'll solve the halting problem I presume
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23:04:08 <b_jonas> I think the problem is that if the recipes aren't ordered then you can't do conditionals properly
23:04:16 <int-e> yeah it's not even hard; the point is that if you ever have a non-empty sequence of steps from n to n' with n | n' then the program doesn't terminate (in the sense that there's an infinite run).
23:04:55 <b_jonas> like if you try zero test on a prime factor, and it's not an infallible test, a machine that chooses recipes in an adversary way can just always make the test fail as if the counter was always zero
23:05:13 <b_jonas> this isn't a complete proof because Fractran can test multiple counters at the same time
23:05:40 <ais523> int-e: oh right, that was it, yes
23:06:07 <ais523> if all the primes have higher factors than in some previous state of the program, you have a potential infinite loop
23:06:40 <ais523> and if that condition is never met I think the program has to terminate eventually, for reasons similar to there not being an infinite decreasing sequence of ordinals
23:07:49 <int-e> yeah. that's the part that you can prove by induction on the number of prime factors.
23:08:15 <b_jonas> I think you can compile from nopfunge to Fractran with very few primes, but in an inefficient way where all the spaces in the nopfunge code rectangle may need to be encoded to fractran fractions
23:08:44 <b_jonas> but this has the same problem as compiling from TWM, which is that it wants to use non-reduced fractions
23:09:04 <ais523> do any of the nopfunge derivatives help? Keymaker and I created quite a lot of them recently
23:10:30 <int-e> An assumed infinite sequence of states will have a subsequence in which the power of the latest added prime factor's powers are non-decreasing. And by induction you can extend this to a subsequence in which all the prime powers are non-decreasing.
23:11:19 <ais523> anyway, you can use two primes to represent a "must be exactly this value" test in Fractran by ensuring that their exponents always add to a constant
23:12:48 <ais523> this might give a four-prime TC proof for Fractran? use an FSM+two counters, use two primes for the two counters and two primes for the state
23:12:51 <int-e> ais523: right. the trouble is that a direct transition from p^a*q^b to p^c*q^d would use the fraction p^(c-a)q^(d-b) and that cancellation destroys the test
23:13:17 <ais523> ah yes, the same problem with compiling from TWM
23:13:20 <int-e> ais523: which is why I ended up at 4, you can do two distinct pairs of primes
23:13:32 <ais523> and just swap between them every cycle
23:14:17 <b_jonas> I think what you can do is to break every transition to two transitions with an intermediate state, and just three primes should be enough to encode all the states, no matter how many
23:14:21 <int-e> however, since Fractran fractions are ordered, we don't actually need two primes for the state, we only need one if we order the transitions correctly (with some caveats around states with incomplete transitions)
23:14:56 <b_jonas> int-e: no, one prime isn't enough, you still have the same problem with changing the state as with changing counters
23:14:59 <int-e> So rather than two pairs of primes we should only need two primes after all.
23:15:12 <ais523> I feel like "Uncancelled Fractran" is a language variant worth documenting (i.e. implemented as "if you can do so within the integers, divide by the denominator and multiply by the numerator" but not requiring the fraction to be in lowest terms)
23:15:38 <int-e> b_jonas: I'm reducing from 4 to 2.
23:15:54 <int-e> (and this excludes primes for the counters)
23:16:06 <b_jonas> ais523: isn't that equivalent to something that's already documented, but without the prime factors hat? like My unreliable past without the unreliable past?
23:16:21 <b_jonas> yeah, it may be worth documenting
23:16:57 <ais523> b_jonas: right, that may be equivalent
23:17:17 <b_jonas> or The Waterfall Machine without the waterfall…
23:17:20 <ais523> or subtractpocalypse with control flow reversed
23:17:30 <b_jonas> s/Machine/Model/
23:17:56 <b_jonas> ok, if there are so many different "but with" that remind us of it then it's definitely worth to document
23:18:10 <ais523> well, TWM triggers on 0, it's hard to get 0s there without the steady decrement
23:18:32 <ais523> the variant where you just leave the 0 there until the next 0 comes into range is Delta Relay but that's reversible
23:21:59 <ais523> b_jonas: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Piece_of_cake
23:23:01 <esolangs> [[Fractran]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193040&oldid=193039 * Ais523 * (+20) /* See also */ I was planning to document the uncancelled version of Fractran but it seems like someone's already designed and named it, so add [[Piece of cake]] to the See also
23:23:02 <esolangs> [[User:B jonas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193041&oldid=191422 * B jonas * (+218) /* Todo */ Fractran with not necessarily reduced multipliers
23:23:47 <b_jonas> ah
23:24:25 <esolangs> [[User:B jonas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193042&oldid=193041 * B jonas * (+18) /* Todo */
23:26:13 <esolangs> [[User:B jonas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=193043&oldid=193042 * B jonas * (+180) /* Todo */ might as well throw dofuck into the pile, since that is a language that multiple people have reinvented
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