00:21:24 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds). 00:23:07 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 00:53:16 -!- ChimeraAnova has joined. 01:19:09 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:20:23 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:23:39 [[Talk:Mirrors]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196986&oldid=196946 * None1 * (+372) My only concern 01:37:39 [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196987&oldid=195963 * A random guy * (+354) /* Can NANDlang, or maybe as a extension, NANDlang+ become implemented? */ new section 01:39:15 [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196988&oldid=196987 * A random guy * (+0) 01:44:44 -!- aadenboy has joined. 01:45:04 hmm, the logs are giving a 402 error 01:45:07 502* 01:48:35 -!- lynndotpy6093627 has quit (Quit: bye bye). 01:54:53 [[Layered Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196989&oldid=196964 * Cordership * (+131) /* Example */ 01:55:13 [[Layered Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196990&oldid=196989 * Cordership * (+1) /* Implementations */ 01:55:28 [[Layered Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196991&oldid=196990 * Cordership * (-19) /* Implementations */ 02:02:40 [[User talk:PkmnQ/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196992&oldid=196972 * PkmnQ * (+213) 02:04:44 [[User:PkmnQ/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196993&oldid=196970 * PkmnQ * (+47) 02:15:32 [[Talk:Layered Deadfish]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=196994 * Cordership * (+286) Created page with "so I created this language because yall told me not dead fish was too similar to the original deadfish also I made the interpreter in python ~~~~" 02:15:45 -!- PkmnQ has joined. 02:42:13 -!- sprock has joined. 02:55:01 -!- PkmnQ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:01:26 -!- PkmnQ has joined. 03:04:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:18:01 -!- ChimeraAnova has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:19:30 -!- ChimeraAnova has joined. 03:20:06 [[User:PkmnQ/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196995&oldid=196993 * PkmnQ * (+157) Brain-Flak is a weird case, but I'm forcing it into this table any way I can 03:23:40 hello ChimeraAnova 03:25:43 [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196996&oldid=196723 * Cordership * (+54) /* Codegolfing */ 03:27:01 Hello aadenboy 03:28:08 [[ORK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196997&oldid=190326 * None1 * (+5687) /* Examples */ 03:28:44 hm, I wonder how the home prime trick works in other languages 03:28:47 bases* 03:28:59 [[Deadfish/Implementations (M-Z)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196998&oldid=168613 * None1 * (+1987) /* OOLANG */ 03:29:58 `factor 4 03:30:04 4: 2 2 03:30:06 `factor 22 03:30:09 22: 2 11 03:30:18 2a -> 35 03:30:20 `factor 35 03:30:22 35: 5 7 03:30:31 ... 03:30:35 no I messed up on step 1 03:31:04 22_12 is 26_10 03:31:07 `factor 26 03:31:09 26: 2 13 03:31:26 base 12? 03:31:34 base 12 as an example yeah 03:32:12 13_10 = 11_12, 211_12 = 301_10 03:32:22 `factor 301 03:32:24 301: 7 43 03:32:37 no way can I do this in my head haha 03:32:59 `` cat /hackeso/bin/factorchain.lua 03:33:02 cat: /hackeso/bin/factorchain.lua: No such file or directory 03:33:13 `` cat /hackenv/bin/factorchain.lua 03:33:15 assert(arg[1],"No number provided")t=0 n=arg[1]c=n repeat f=io.popen("factor "..n:gsub("%s",""))n=f:read("*a"):match(".- (.+)")t=t+1 c=c.." -> "..n:gsub("%s","")until not n:match(" ")print(t.." factorizations: "..(#c+#(""..t)<256 and c or c:gsub(">.+>", "> ... ->"))) 03:37:13 searching and ended up finding this amazing reddit post title: "are numbers prime across bases?" 03:38:25 the concept of bases is great but I think obscures various things. like my thought is that it would be better perceptually to imagine numbers as sort of. amorphous things without any single base 03:38:40 You mean separate the value of the number from its representation? 03:38:44 yeah 03:39:03 Like how III = 3 = 10 (base 3) = 11 (base 2), it's always 3 03:39:05 I like imagining them as points on a line, or that's the best my synesthesia can visualize it as 03:39:24 unary would be the best base for that tbh 03:39:33 *** 03:39:36 at least for integers 03:39:49 natural numbers* 03:40:13 [[EsoInterpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196999&oldid=193017 * None1 * (+27) /* Main table */ Add Deadfish in ORK 03:40:14 Speaking of unary, I wonder if people have tried making unary rationals like ***/** 03:40:51 ChimeraAnova: https://github.com/aadenboy/Quanta/blob/main/parser.lua#L120-123 03:41:11 (thing:sub(1, 1) == "-" and -1 or 1) * #thing:match("0i(1+)") + 1 / (#(thing:match("%.(1+)$") or "") + 1) 03:47:33 hm, misinterpreted what you meant 03:47:41 floats aren't rationals :P 03:48:14 [[Hexafunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197000&oldid=196948 * Cordership * (+543) /* 4-function calculator */ 03:51:15 [[4-function calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197001&oldid=196719 * Aadenboy * (+34) 03:51:33 [[Basic calculator]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197002 * Aadenboy * (+35) Redirected page to [[4-function calculator]] 03:51:40 [[Simple calculator]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197003 * Aadenboy * (+35) Redirected page to [[4-function calculator]] 03:51:57 [[Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197004&oldid=181083 * Aadenboy * (-1) 03:53:20 [[Hexafunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197005&oldid=197000 * Cordership * (+189) 04:04:53 [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197006&oldid=196042 * Cordership * (-7) /* Simpl */ 04:04:55 `unidecode c/o 04:04:58 ​[U+0063 LATIN SMALL LETTER C] [U+002F SOLIDUS] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] 04:05:06 ? 04:08:14 [[FizzBuzz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197007&oldid=194612 * Cordership * (+746) /* GotoScript */ 04:08:26 [[FizzBuzz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197008&oldid=197007 * Cordership * (+5) /* Hexafunge */ 04:11:01 [[FizzLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197009&oldid=186836 * Cordership * (+148) /* Examples */ 04:12:07 FizzBuzz doesn't require the use of modulo, right? 04:12:43 well, alternatives lead to it 04:15:55 `lua -e i=0print(("n Fizz n n Buzz Fizz n n Fizz Buzz n Fizz n n FizzBuzz "):repeat(7):gsub("n",load'i=i+1 return i')) 04:15:57 lua: (command line):1: expected near 'repeat' 04:16:06 `lua -e i=0 print(("n Fizz n n Buzz Fizz n n Fizz Buzz n Fizz n n FizzBuzz "):rep(7):gsub("n",load'i=i+1 return i')) 04:16:08 1 Fizz 2 3 Buzz Fizz 4 5 Fizz Buzz 6 Fizz 7 8 FizzBuzz 9 Fizz 10 11 Buzz Fizz 12 13 Fizz Buzz 14 Fizz 15 16 FizzBuzz 17 Fizz 18 19 Buzz Fizz 20 21 Fizz Buzz 22 Fizz 23 24 FizzBuzz 25 Fizz 26 27 Buzz Fizz 28 29 Fizz Buzz 30 Fizz 31 32 FizzBuzz 33 Fizz 34 35 Buzz Fizz 36 37 Fizz Buzz 38 Fizz 39 40 FizzBuzz 41 Fizz 42 43 Buzz Fizz 44 45 Fizz Buzz 46 Fizz 47 48 FizzBuzz 49 Fizz 50 51 Buzz Fizz 52 53 Fizz Buzz 54 Fizz 55 56 FizzBuzz 56 04:16:58 `lua -e i=0 print(("n n Fizz n Buzz Fizz n n Fizz Buzz n Fizz n n FizzBuzz "):rep(7):gsub("%S",load'i=i+1 return ...=="n"and i or ...')) 04:17:00 1 2 Fizz 7 Buzz Fizz 16 17 Fizz Buzz 26 Fizz 31 32 FizzBuzz 41 42 Fizz 47 Buzz Fizz 56 57 Fizz Buzz 66 Fizz 71 72 FizzBuzz 81 82 Fizz 87 Buzz Fizz 96 97 Fizz Buzz 106 Fizz 111 112 FizzBuzz 121 122 Fizz 127 Buzz Fizz 136 137 Fizz Buzz 146 Fizz 151 152 FizzBuzz 161 162 Fizz 167 Buzz Fizz 176 177 Fizz Buzz 186 Fizz 191 192 FizzBuzz 201 202 Fizz 207 Buzz Fizz 216 217 Fizz Buzz 226 Fizz 231 232 FizzBuzz 241 242 Fizz 247 Buzz Fizz 256 257 Fizz Buzz 266 Fizz 271 04:17:07 `lua -e i=0 print(("n n Fizz n Buzz Fizz n n Fizz Buzz n Fizz n n FizzBuzz "):rep(7):gsub("%S+",load'i=i+1 return ...=="n"and i or ...')) 04:17:09 1 2 Fizz 4 Buzz Fizz 7 8 Fizz Buzz 11 Fizz 13 14 FizzBuzz 16 17 Fizz 19 Buzz Fizz 22 23 Fizz Buzz 26 Fizz 28 29 FizzBuzz 31 32 Fizz 34 Buzz Fizz 37 38 Fizz Buzz 41 Fizz 43 44 FizzBuzz 46 47 Fizz 49 Buzz Fizz 52 53 Fizz Buzz 56 Fizz 58 59 FizzBuzz 61 62 Fizz 64 Buzz Fizz 67 68 Fizz Buzz 71 Fizz 73 74 FizzBuzz 76 77 Fizz 79 Buzz Fizz 82 83 Fizz Buzz 86 Fizz 88 89 FizzBuzz 91 92 Fizz 94 Buzz Fizz 97 98 Fizz Buzz 101 Fizz 103 104 FizzBuzz 105 04:32:38 [[N-Type]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197010&oldid=176831 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-80) /* Example */ 04:33:40 [[N-Type]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197011&oldid=197010 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+0) /* Memory */ 04:44:28 [[N-Type]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197012&oldid=197011 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+6) /* Types */ 04:45:00 [[N-Type]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197013&oldid=197012 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-1) /* Builtin functions/primitives */ 04:48:12 [[BFFuck/3.x plans]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197014&oldid=196259 * None1 * (-33) /* Features */ Revision: 1. Move Bitwise operations to standard library (since they're unimplemented in brainfuck algorithms) and replace with logic operations. 2. Add math library to plan 3. Remove raw brainfuck code injection (because to my surprise it was already impl 04:48:26 [[BFFuck/3.x plans]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197015&oldid=197014 * None1 * (+2) /* Standard library */ 04:51:53 [[BFFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197016&oldid=196219 * None1 * (+37) /* Syntax */ Document raw brainfuck code injection 04:58:32 [[BFFuck/3.x plans]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197017&oldid=197015 * None1 * (+75) /* Features */ 05:01:54 [[BFFuck/3.x plans]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197018&oldid=197017 * None1 * (+355) 05:06:08 hmm, the logs are giving a [502] error <- fizzie: I should probably ping you about this, 05:08:22 -!- yayimheretoo has joined. 05:08:29 hi! 05:08:45 just finished reading Ais523's pirating blog post which was cool. 05:09:17 hello yayimheretoo 05:09:30 ais523 has a blog? 05:09:33 hi aadenboy :] 05:10:08 thye way libera renders emojis is horrible 05:10:23 why in hell did autocorrect turn the into thye???? 05:10:35 [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197019&oldid=196996 * Cordership * (+97) /* Cheating narcissist */ 05:10:36 frequent usage perhaps 05:11:12 [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197020&oldid=197019 * Cordership * (+8) /* Codegolfing */ 05:11:34 aadenboy: probably- but im surprised it would replace a correct with with an incorrect one. 05:15:29 I atleast know its never done it before 05:29:51 goodnight 05:30:06 cya 05:43:56 -!- MarkFan8901 has joined. 05:44:38 we wonder if its possible to make a 'naive' c interpreter which goes character by character 05:44:47 and doesnt do any lexing or parsing whatsoever 05:46:44 sounds interesting! 05:47:08 oh hi yayimheretoo 05:47:31 and hi to u MarkFan8901 05:47:38 yayay 05:47:45 lol 05:48:10 could be an interesting concept but I personally dont know any C so im probably irrelevant to the discussion 05:48:48 nah this could go for any language which doesnt have one-command-per-character syntax 05:48:53 true true 05:49:01 python me here python me there 05:49:10 MarkFan8901: is it allowed to assume that the program will always be valid (i.e. no unmatched brackets) or is it required to check along with interpreting? 05:49:20 i. cant. wait. to  learn ocaml lol 05:49:21 its required to check 05:49:44 imagine a c interpreter written like a brainfuck interpreter, where the main loop is a switch case between all characters 05:49:51 imagine all the spaghetti 05:50:00 yayimheretoo: we've had a few whiffs of ocaml 05:50:03 it seems like a cool language 05:50:49 MarkFan8901: everything ive heard of it I like. 05:50:59 could you recap for us real quick 05:51:05 it has straight up a language creation feature TMI 05:51:12 wha 05:51:18 like racket? 05:51:19 or different 05:51:23 TMI as in Too My Info 05:51:35 T(w)o My Info 05:51:38 MarkFan8901: hopefully im remembering the correct language but I think yea 05:51:43 [[HQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197021&oldid=195451 * Cordership * (+850) 05:51:52 huh 05:51:58 shit wrong language lol 05:51:58 thats a little less cool but understandable 05:52:02 wait wha 05:52:18 MarkFan8901: we say that cuz we dont like how you build languages in racket 05:52:33 no yes it was racket 05:52:38 oki oki 05:52:53 [[HQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197022&oldid=197021 * Cordership * (+19) /* Implementations */ 05:53:11 idk why bbut I get those confused in my head 05:53:49 MarkFan8901: its just a lex/yacc workflow, which restricts you to traditional grammars and concepts of how semantics relate to syntax 05:53:57 yayimheretoo: what other language are you talking about 05:54:03 or do you just mean ocaml/racket 05:54:18 I meant racket bbut confused it with Ocaml, lol 05:54:23 oki oki 05:54:28 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:54:36 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 251 seconds). 05:54:37 ive also tried prolog but never got far 05:54:44 yea prolog seems quite funky 05:54:54 but I liked it 05:54:56 like the nixos of programming languages 05:55:25 MarkFan8901: thinking about it this is actually one of ralseis goals 05:56:05 to be able to implement incredibly weird languages by being so damn flexible and easy 05:56:44 ralsei? 05:56:52 is this a project you have created? 05:57:01 ye 05:57:06 thats our main esolang project rn 05:57:09 -!- ChimeraAnova has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:57:11 oh cool!!! 05:57:22 -!- ChimeraAnova has joined. 05:57:35 we actually need to work on it again soon 05:58:04 please do so! 05:58:11 ye we will 05:58:20 i have a GPL i was working on 05:58:22 last we were implementing it we had a bug where it seemed like one of the commands would just get eaten by the program and not have its intended effect 05:58:26 i rlly liked it but never got far 05:58:29 and we just stopped 05:58:35 MarkFan8901: oh weird lmao 05:58:37 yayimheretoo: thats really cool 05:58:51 MarkFan8901: thanks!!!! I dunno how General it is 05:58:57 but its the language I'd wanna use 05:59:14 actually that might beg the question of what 'general' means 05:59:34 truly. I think its generally what people think about as useful for many things 05:59:38 it seems like ppl think it means gener*ic* 05:59:46 thats true lmao 06:00:04 but the core goal of general languages are simply ones which can be applied to a wide range of problems 06:00:13 yea 06:00:25 which could be very interesting to think about if you actually take that idea seriously and examine it up close 06:00:41 and like try to Solve for what such a language would look like 06:00:58 in that case I guess this probably is pretty general. but it isn't made to do things like concurrency or web accses, but those could be library'ed 06:01:08 on the topic of solving for a language... 06:01:40 have you heard of FWOTD? 06:01:46 ye 06:02:05 nice 06:02:06 we think the concept is cool but the language itself is too undescriptive to really be interesting in our opinion 06:02:06 lol 06:02:43 also technically you actually describe a whole *class* of languages which have the properties you lay out whenever you do that 06:02:44 MarkFan8901: undescriptive? 06:02:52 yayimheretoo: vague 06:02:55 thats the word we were looking for 06:02:59 ah ok 06:03:24 MarkFan8901: on the second thing you said, that was intentional and known when it was made 06:03:31 ye 06:04:20 i do kinda want to re-do a constraint language again. I personally like FWOTD and find it interesting but I have other constraints I'd want to try 06:04:33 perhaps [[Category:Constraint Language]] should be a thing 06:04:37 its a cool idea 06:04:50 yea. 06:05:02 I mean if you up I'd love to collab on one 06:05:09 perchance 06:05:39 something we would wanna try is building the constraints off an automaton, but then dressing them up in typical programming language terms for the final rules 06:05:49 and see how people would try and implement it 06:06:20 automaton? 06:06:30 im curious on this use of the wordd 06:06:38 stuff like the game of life 06:06:40 or gears 06:06:42 or particle physics 06:06:47 ah yea ok. 06:07:14 so like a constant looping process applied to some predetermined memory 06:07:36 nono, like 06:08:03 imagine describing the properties of the automaton with that form of execution implicit 06:08:13 then deliberately taking that out in the rules themselves 06:08:26 what I said was the definition of an automaton:) 06:08:29 ah 06:08:44 yes that is what we're talking about 06:08:53 great! 06:09:00 mutual understanding! 06:09:12 but imagine trying to get the behavior of an automaton in the semantics of a language Without that process 06:09:42 thats quite cool 06:09:46 ye 06:09:48 thank u 06:09:56 no problemos 06:10:11 oh perhaps said automaton would be the 'solution' to the constraints 06:10:57 I think these kinds of problems are more interesting when theres a family of languages in which the constraints apply 06:11:01 yes 06:11:19 esppecially in a social sense 06:11:28 having an actual set Solution would go against the spirit of constraint langs, but it would be really cool to see what the constrains were based off anyways 06:11:39 also yes thinking about this in a social sense is very helpful 06:12:05 the manifesto of constraint langs 06:12:25 The Constraintist Manifesto 06:12:31 could be its whole own thing seperate from esolangs to be fair 06:12:38 MarkFan8901: lmao 06:13:01 yayimheretoo: yea its a pretty general kind of puzzle 06:13:08 that here is being applied to esolangs 06:14:38 building a constraint language off of an existing language is interesting bcuz on one hand, it kinda goes against the spirit(as you mentioned) but also makes the rules less arbitrary 06:14:58 nono its only against the spirit if you say its The solution 06:15:06 oh yea true 06:15:24 but if you build off a single e language you still have to make sure theres other results 06:15:28 is what I meant 06:15:33 yes 06:15:50 that ties directly into the rules being less arbitrary 06:16:18 yes. 06:16:22 since you can quantify your intent and design around it 06:16:47 like in our idea of making people fit automaton behavior in the semantics of a typical language 06:17:21 theres also kinda the question of how precise constraints have to be. 06:17:27 enough to be fun 06:17:36 true words 06:17:37 lmao 06:18:10 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 261 seconds). 06:18:12 theres also a distinction between precise and clear 06:18:18 yes 06:18:23 we think the rules should always be clear, but the precision can vary 06:18:54 time to write a constraint language again 06:18:59 hew yea 06:19:16 also time to get back to working on ralsei 06:19:21 fungot celebrate 06:19:21 MarkFan8901: we were talking about sml, why does ( list ( quote expression)), right 06:19:27 lmao 06:19:32 but yea ill be back 06:19:35 okik 06:19:54 well ill probably stay to ramble about my ideas but I'll be off for some amount of time to get a concept at all 06:20:39 okik (2) 06:21:51 I don't know what was up with the logs, it'd died with a segfaul seven times in a row last night, then it hit its restart limit, but when I started it back up now it didn't die and seems to be working. :shrug: 06:22:06 damn 06:22:07 oh its back up dow 06:22:08 now* 06:22:12 very strange 06:38:25 -!- iovoid has joined. 06:38:39 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 06:49:02 hmmm, i kinda want to build a constraint language off of N-type 06:53:49 one rule, would be a transformation F onto a value X, and separately onto Y, must transform into the same value, iff X and Y share a property(beyond their individual value), unless the transformation is not defined specifically for the property thats shared by X and Y, in which their results may not be equal, unless X = Y. 06:55:06 another rule is much simpler, every value X must be able to be interpreted as a transformation from a value A to a value B. 06:57:40 a third is: Every transformation must be readable as a value. 06:59:28 a fourth: Every value/transformation when initially defined(by the program, this does not apply to built in values) must be defined either as a transformation or a value, and its value or transformation interpretation must be derived, not defined. 07:02:36 MarkFan8901: what do you think of this? 07:02:44 -!- sprock has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:04:32 Also: There exists a number of transformations which create other transformations 07:04:32 And last: There exists a property universal to every value/transformation 07:22:31 [[Whitespace]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197023&oldid=160586 * Qazwsxplm * (-956) Symbolization 07:23:38 -!- de67 has joined. 07:24:22 [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197024&oldid=196988 * Dragoneater67 * (+171) /* Can NANDlang, or maybe as a extension, NANDlang+ become implemented? */ 07:26:36 [[Whitespace]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197025&oldid=197023 * Qazwsxplm * (+0) TAB = Horizontal Tabulation (HT) 07:28:19 hi de67! 07:28:26 hi yayimheretoo 07:28:42 de67: s'how ya doin? 07:28:46 gud 07:29:08 what abt you? 07:29:12 -!- MarkFan8901 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 07:29:40 im great! 07:29:52 had quite the interesting convo with the person who just left 07:30:07 damn 07:30:11 need to check logs then 07:30:38 is it MarkFan8901? 07:30:41 about constraint based languages and stuff 07:30:46 and yes it was the fan 07:31:12 if you see me say Ocaml start there 07:32:56 a lot of 2d rsolangs popped up recently 07:33:22 this is quite similar to how a lot of markup esolangs were created in late august 07:33:50 huh, interesting 07:34:08 [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197026&oldid=196984 * Blashyrkh * (+99) Add [[Brain-Flak]] and [[GolferNightmare]] to the table. The latter looks promising, and PkmnQ is fond of the former 07:34:51 hm, the bases thing is interesting 07:35:07 it just proves that base 1 is the best 07:35:17 bases? 07:35:40 base n prime concatenation thing? 07:35:51 yuh 07:36:00 ah ok 07:36:02 hm 07:36:15 how would factorchain for base1 work? 07:37:34 lemme trace 30: 111111111111111111111111111111 1111111111 1111111 07:37:42 hm 07:38:01 its actually just summing the factors 07:38:12 so i think its guaranteed to keep going down 07:38:52 since if a and b are natural numbers than ab ≥ a+b 07:40:09 well that's boring 07:40:43 kinda 07:40:51 you can only search for primes less than n 07:41:11 it kinda is 07:41:16 but its less arbitrary 07:41:21 i think 07:41:43 cuz when you think of it, any base other than base1 is quite arbitrary 07:43:09 -!- MarkFan8901 has joined. 07:43:10 wah 07:43:14 our client quit automatically 07:43:16 reading up on logs 07:43:51 hi MarkFan8901 07:43:56 hi 07:46:03 yayimheretoo: we're trying to understand the rules you put down rn 07:46:12 [[Cat (Language)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197027&oldid=138272 * Qazwsxplm * (+6) 07:46:37 firstly, all values are valid transformations (we'll call them functions from here on out) 07:47:44 secondly, functions which work off a certain property must return the same result for two values which share said property 07:48:02 i.e. f(x) = f(y) if x and y share the property f works with 07:49:05 thirdly, functions which dont work off a certain property must have different results for different values 07:49:18 i.e. f(x) =/= f(y) if x =/= y 07:50:10 fourth, all values and functions are defined at the start of the program, but not directly 07:50:21 they have to be derived from something 07:50:27 (might need clarification) 07:50:36 MarkFan8901: ill read all yo messages in a sec but I acknowledge! 07:50:41 okik 07:50:49 I used transformations to just be a bit more general 07:51:10 using the word function makes some things obvious 07:51:19 yes 07:51:47 like the fact all values are transformations and vice versa tells us this is a lambda calculus of some sort 07:52:21 also the fact that all values and functions are defined at the start of the program feels typical for programming in lambdas 07:52:41 the derived thing is somewhat interesting though 07:53:10 yep!! again, just wanted to be as general as possible. also, they dont have to be defined at the start of the program, could be anywhere. its just that you have to define it as either a value or a function, and the "other side" must be derived 07:53:20 ohhhh 07:53:41 we thought the definitions of each had to be derived from the rules you put down 07:53:46 so you couldnt just directly define a value or function 07:54:00 yeah that collapses it way further down into lambda calculus 07:54:14 also, this doesn't mean it has to be possible to define as a value, or possible to define as a function. you could further restrict it to just do one. N-type does this, you can only define its function form lol. 07:54:19 MarkFan8901: btw, there was some discussion around fwotd back in april 07:54:28 but yes its very close to LC 07:54:33 my functional ass 07:54:36 in here or on the talk page for fwotd 07:54:41 in here 07:54:42 irc 07:54:47 hmh 07:54:57 also, fungot, do YOU have a functional ass? 07:54:57 yayimheretoo: good enough. kiddy grade on the other 07:55:05 wow ok 07:55:24 im nonfunctional 07:55:26 we have a dysfunctional ass :( /j 07:55:31 ack why does it turn to emojis 07:55:49 de67: imperative ass 07:55:54 MarkFan8901: cuz you use the stupid web client 07:55:57 general recursive ass 07:56:00 de67: fair 07:56:31 yayimheretoo: yuh, i do a lot of imperative things cuz its very simple 07:56:33 hm we wonder what a language with a general recursive paradigm would look like 07:56:37 NL complexity ass 07:56:38 you do this then do that 07:56:51 yep 07:57:00 it makes sense 07:57:04 i ddo too 07:57:41 MarkFan8901: as in like, one which tried to make generalizations over them and make it usable for general programming 07:57:48 like what haskell does with lambda calculus 07:58:00 that seems cool 07:58:02 or what (arguably) algol-likes do with turing machines 07:58:06 ye 07:58:08 actually hold on 07:58:23 are there any languages which generalize over how specifically turing machines work? 07:58:33 imma Haskell yo ass *makes you a GPL based off of your simple structure* 07:58:42 hm, could declarative paradigm be generalized? 07:58:43 like not machines with ram and registers like with normal computers 07:58:44 actually, now i'm wondering if https://esolanging.wiki/wiki/User:PkmnQ/Reinterpretable would count as a (user-edited) constraintlang 07:59:02 de67: would Prolog count? 07:59:04 PkmnQ: probably 07:59:09 de67: thats already haskell 07:59:15 and arguably combinators 07:59:17 PkmnQ: hmmmm 07:59:19 YES 07:59:23 isnt haskell functional? 07:59:27 ye 07:59:30 but its also declarative 07:59:35 actually hold on 07:59:43 the constraints are the programs, and it slowly gets more restricted by user edits 07:59:45 what do u mean precisely by declarative 07:59:59 Burn is a... constraint language? 08:00:13 MarkFan8901: i think theres a edolang wiki page abt it 08:00:14 oh burn is an accidental constraint language 08:00:16 lemme search it up 08:00:25 MarkFan8901: yes 08:00:36 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Declarative_paradigm 08:00:43 finally the people dont have to fake forgetting something 08:00:46 lol 08:00:55 MarkFan8901: yeah the reason i haven't looked into the increasing possibility more is because i'm fairly sure i'm gonna be stumbling onto a family of CAs rather than just one 08:01:27 btw 08:01:31 wait what are you referring to 08:01:35 sry we are a little dump 08:01:39 yayimheretoo: how do you even forget an esolang? 08:02:01 PkmnQ: holy shit I just forgot it's YOU who did the FWOTD! thanks! 08:02:06 de67: skill issue 08:02:09 MarkFan8901: to the paradigm?? 08:02:13 de67: this is a completely different definition of declarative than what we had in mind 08:02:17 hm 08:02:22 im very funny as you can see 08:02:38 de67: wait wait sry 08:02:41 we were scrolled up 08:02:50 we were responding to PkmnQ 08:03:00 with the 'what are you referring to' 08:03:03 im confused on whats going on, there are multiple ongoing conversations in one channel 08:03:05 MarkFan8901: oh well for Burn I mostly considered the possibility that cells only ever decrease 08:03:12 de67: Yea 08:03:20 de67: happens, sadly 08:03:28 what happens? 08:03:28 hold on lets disambiguate 08:03:44 de67: multi-conversation in the single channel 08:03:46 PkmnQ: what increasing possibility are you referring to 08:03:54 yayimhere: btw, what did you intend to mean by skill issue? 08:04:15 de67: "how do you even forget an esolang" "skill issue" 08:04:16 MarkFan8901: i think hes referring to burn 08:04:16 Hi 08:04:19 again, very funny 08:04:21 hi apic 08:04:22 MarkFan8901: well one of the speculated pieces of information for Burn is "I think the irreversibility was implemented via requiring each colour channel of each cell to only ever decrease (or maybe only ever increase, but decreasing seems more likely)." 08:04:27 Yo de67 😌 08:04:27 Hi APic, welcome to hell 08:04:31 lmao 08:04:40 yayimheretoo: does that mean bad memory? or just forgetting to save a file with all your notes? 08:04:44 PkmnQ: OH 08:04:46 okay okay 08:05:02 de67: it was a joke sorry lol 08:05:10 im my case I just dont write shit down 08:05:14 i went with decreasing since it was a lot more constrained than increasing, if i ever get to investigate increasing i think there'll be a whole family of possible Burns rather than one 08:05:40 yayimheretoo: thats why i oftentimes write txt files with all the notes on them, and then delete them once i get everything sorted out 08:06:00 PkmnQ: okay we see what you mean now 08:06:07 de67: yea that makes sense. I just change it so often in my head a textfile is bothersome cuz I have to update all the time 08:06:11 increasing burn has the possibility of becoming a constraint lang 08:06:45 alr 08:06:48 i gtg 08:06:50 -!- de67 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:06:52 aw 08:07:02 made great convo! 08:07:19 : the issue with making a language out of that definition of declarative programming is that at some point you need to quantify the programmers intent 08:07:29 which. isnt possible without some sort of artificial intelligence 08:07:39 or with some degree of imperativity 08:09:45 like, the optimal declarative language would look something like `fac(n) {0 -> 1, 1 -> 1, 2 -> 2, 3 -> 6, 4 -> 24, 5 -> 120, 6 -> 720, ...}` 08:10:16 zero control over how the function actually works internally, just what its supposed to do 08:10:54 even with our example, at some point you would have to put those functions together to make the program 08:11:11 which would be controlling the flow of the program 08:11:13 which would be imperative 08:11:17 MarkFan8901: do it like Prolog does it 08:11:25 let the user input what they want 08:12:35 actually prolog does seem like a kind of good stepping stone for making such a language like that 08:13:00 cuz its rules *are* defining your intent, in a pretty pure sense 08:13:09 if your intent can be written out logically, at least 08:13:21 it also works cuz logic solvers Are a kind of ai 08:14:05 since they can formalize human knowledge and automate it 08:14:24 'human knowledge' here being the part of our brains that do logic 08:17:02 actually scratch our original example, the optimal declarative language would just be plain natural language 08:18:00 perhaps llms can work as (shitty) transpilers between natural language and programming languages 08:18:24 heard of vibe coding /j 08:18:44 yes this is what vibe coding is 08:19:01 so To avoid this logical extreme we have a different definition of declarative 08:19:09 which also seems to fit a lot of languages which get called declarative too 08:19:52 instead, having a declarative paradigm means that you can deduce what a program in your language is just by specifying your intent more and more 08:20:38 we've brought this up before but there's a pretty simple paper about the theoretical combinator J, where JJ -> K and J(JJ) -> S 08:21:23 and it does this by deducing what the properties of such a combinator would be 08:21:39 until the actual combinator just plops right into their hand 08:21:39 also theres more N-type rules: 08:21:40 1. Every Property has a corresponding value/transform, and every value/transform has a corresponding property. For ease of use, P(X) is the property which corresponds to X. 08:21:40 2. There must exist the following builtin values/transforms: 08:21:41 A value/transform M which turns values of the universal property into itself. 08:21:41 A value/transform l which takes in a value X and creates a transform which transform everything with the property P(X) into X. 08:21:42 A value/transform which takes in a value X, and creates a transform which makes values of P(M) into l(X) 08:21:42 3. There exists transforms U which turn a value/transform into a transform F, where U never calls any values C that are equal to F. 08:21:43 4. the above transforms act upon every property which has a single value(i.e the property which refers to the value that represents that property) 08:22:11 MarkFan8901: great 08:22:25 ye its a really cool paper 08:22:34 even though its really short and simple 08:22:47 i wanna read it! 08:22:52 we realized that that same thing is actually kind of what type programming is like in haskell 08:23:41 you interrogate what you wanna implement really hard until the program just naturally falls out from it 08:23:59 thats great 08:24:24 maybe theres a way you can do that to a set of constraints for a constraint language 08:24:45 funny how those are kinda similair 08:24:48 ye thats how solving for constraints feel 08:24:56 actually wait arent they just the same thing 08:25:05 solving for that combinator J was a constraint problem 08:25:15 where the constraints are that JJ -> K and J(JJ) -> S 08:25:27 were js sobbing for langs and not combinators 08:25:39 ye 08:25:40 funny how that connects thats satisfying 08:25:45 yes 08:25:51 we love making connections like that 08:26:09 me too! 08:26:10 anyways we're gonna filter the rules you typed through our brain rq 08:26:15 cool cool 08:28:58 just remembered https://esolangs.org/wiki/Tableaux 08:29:09 oh that monster 08:36:24 1. every type has a function, and every function has a type. x' swaps a type/function x to its corresponding function/type respectively 08:36:25 2. there's a universal property (not sure what that means tho) 08:36:25 3. there's a built in identity function M for the universal property 08:36:26 4. there's a built in function I(x) which makes a function λ where x -> x'' 08:36:26 5. there's a built in function *(x) which makes a function λ where M' -> I(x) 08:36:27 6. there's a built in function U which (ok we dont know what this does) 08:36:36 U needs more clarification 08:37:10 did I swap property out with type god dammit 08:37:29 nah we did 08:37:37 AH ok:) 08:37:57 what is the universal property 08:37:59 so let me explain the last one better 08:38:01 does that mean the property every value has 08:38:07 yes 08:38:11 that should be clarified 08:39:30 theres a number of transforms (let just call one U). U(x) returns some function λ based on x. When U is executed, it never calls any function F thats equal to λ. 08:39:42 I and * are transforms U 08:39:46 *like U 08:40:55 *l and * 08:40:55 so when U is executed, it doesnt call λ 08:41:00 or anything equivalent to it 08:41:49 no, whenever U returns λ, we assume U never called a function λ. Basically, it's a kinda roundabout way to explain that U is never a constant function 08:42:20 ahh okay 08:42:24 and also, the rule I said earlier, thaat if X and Y share a property and F acts on that property, then F(X) = F(Y)? well with U... 08:42:49 U always acts on the property thats unique to that single value, so if U(X) = U(Y), X should equal Y 08:42:52 let me double check tho 08:43:38 esolangs.org has been so slow recently lol 08:44:42 so U only works on the types of functions 08:44:53 also question, what does P(M) mean 08:45:02 does the universal type also correspond to some function 08:45:20 nono, U's result is just never set to be equal because X and Y share a property. 08:45:34 The result could be equal for other reasons, but never because of property 08:45:44 ah ok 08:45:50 it still obeys the property law though, because every object has a property unique to it 08:45:53 so it does NOT work on property 08:46:10 MarkFan8901: in practice no 08:46:22 P(M) is the property holding only M 08:46:35 oh wait 08:46:42 right we forgot M is a function 08:46:47 fsr we thought it meant the universal type 08:46:54 v is the universal type:) 08:48:59 -!- de67 has joined. 08:49:05 this is very confusing llmao. cant wait to write it down and try to find a solution myself 08:49:22 hi guys im back 08:49:23 ack 08:49:29 im thinking smth Thue like( theres a reason I said transform and not just function;) ) 08:49:35 de67: hi! :) 08:49:37 whats going on 08:49:37 oo 08:49:40 also hi de67 08:49:46 de67: more constrainnts 08:49:47 we're talking about yayimheretoos new constraint language 08:49:52 oh damn 08:49:57 also we got out the thoughts we wanted to on the declarative thingy we were talking about earlier 08:50:00 it was right after you left 08:50:02 thats cool 08:50:14 u should read it....................................................................................... 08:50:19 turns out constraint languages and declarative paradigms are the same /j 08:50:32 True... 08:51:14 fucking, just 08:51:19 grea 08:51:29 did your progress get deleted 08:51:32 is esolangs.org down? 08:51:44 oh its slow 08:51:47 (we're checking rn) 08:51:48 MarkFan8901: no I was just joking on the connection 08:51:51 oh oki 08:51:51 de67: no 08:52:08 but sometimes it renders in raw text without any CSS or anything 08:52:18 oh so its under heavy load 08:52:20 hm 08:52:26 lemme check esolanging wiki too 08:52:27 yeaa 08:52:50 wow esolanging wiki is healthy 08:52:52 somehow 08:53:00 great job! 08:53:14 sounds like a great home for constraint languages tbh 08:53:49 yayimheretoo: i actually did nothing server side for past few days, i guess stupid ai crawlers didnt find my wiki yet 08:54:07 de67: lets hope they stay blind 08:54:27 was about to do a blind leading blind reference but it didn't fit 08:54:31 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * BlueHaunter * New user account 08:55:08 yayimheretoo: there are some companies and orgs that are scanning the entire ipv4 address space for new sevrers 08:55:17 1. each function is of the universal type 08:55:18 2. each unique function has a unique type, and vice versa. (notation: x' swaps a type/function x to its corresponding function/type) 08:55:18 3. there's a built in identity function M for functions of the universal property 08:55:19 4. there's a built in function I(x) which makes a function λ where x -> x'' 08:55:19 5. there's a built in function *(x) which makes a function λ where M' -> I(x) 08:55:19 so idk whats stopping them 08:55:20 6. there's a built in function U which makes a function λ where λ wasn't called by U 08:55:20 de67: jeeez man 08:55:31 its alsp indexed on google 08:55:41 if you search esolanging wiki on google youll find it 08:56:00 the cralwer protection measures are almost the same as in esolang wiki 08:56:09 MarkFan8901: theres still sum misunderstandings let me reword a bit so it makes sense 08:56:10 this is why sneaker net stays on top 08:56:15 yayimheretoo: oki 08:58:12 1. Every function is of the type v, the universal type. 08:58:12 2. each function has a corresponding type and each type has a corresponding function(x' saps between type and function) 08:58:13 3. theres a builtin function M for v(i.e every value with the type v will come out with the same value), where the result is M 08:58:17 theres more gimme a sec 08:58:57 4. theres a builtin I(x) which produces a function λ where it takes a value of type x' and produces x 09:00:08 your current 1 and 2 kind of conflict 09:00:30 since it says every function has *a* type, implying singular, but they already have the universal type 09:00:47 which would defeat the point of types 09:01:02 a value can have multiple types 09:01:10 ahhhh okay 09:01:48 5. theres a builtin *(x) which makes a function λ which turns values of M' into I(x) 09:04:29 perhaps U is too complicated in its current state 09:04:34 ur taking quite a bit of time trying to put it intuitively 09:05:27 im scared 09:05:39 there are so many functions 09:05:43 maybe just saying U isnt a constant function would be better 09:05:47 also ya fair de67 09:05:55 markfan8901 yep. its hard to abstract for whatever reasoon 09:06:05 im also just getting distracted lol 09:06:09 fair 09:07:10 6. (pretty much forget everything I said about it before lol) theres a CLASS(distinct from type, its not smth the program reads, its not a property). It takes in a value X, and creates a function where somewhere in its definition, a value is replaced with X. Even though the functions in this CLASS practically ignore type, technically under the 09:07:11 hood, they rely on the type which is singular for X. 09:07:16 now whats the type thats singular for X? 09:07:25 its basically just a type which holds ONLY X. 09:08:16 maybe classes should be defined beforehand 09:09:45 Class: A class is a set of functions/values, that is literally jsut used to describe the rules. its not actually used by the program as a value or anything like that 09:10:37 maybe this could be defined with a function that returns a function that returns a function 09:11:05 but classes aren't rlly formal 09:11:11 im just saying SOME functions act like this 09:11:13 SOME of them 09:11:29 which is Weird 09:11:38 maybe you should try splitting this into multiple rules 09:12:17 Markfan8901: it is, because for whatever reason its rlly hard to abstract and I DONT KNOW WHY! 09:12:21 lmaooo 09:13:39 idk how to split it though 09:14:14 maybe have one function which deals with the class shenanigans, then define U with it 09:14:35 lmao 09:14:40 ill think about it and be back 09:14:44 okik 09:14:46 btw if you want to see whats being abstracted 09:14:55 nah we wanna do this spoiler free 09:15:00 great 09:15:05 holy shit tho 09:15:18 ok lets set up some notation 09:15:30 1(X) is the type which holds ONLY X 09:17:48 hmmmmm 09:18:24 wait okay 09:18:29 A is *some*(i.e a random one not anything specific) "template" for a function. This means it had somewhere where a value is missing 09:18:50 so its beta reducible 09:18:59 now in this class of functions, every function F takes in a value X, and inserts it into A, and returns the result of x in A 09:19:05 now why is 1(X) relevant? 09:19:15 ya why cant you just do X 09:20:16 well, every function operators "for" some amount of types, and If X and Y both are in one of those types the function operators "for" F(X) would be equal to F(Y). However, every function in this class acts for every single 1(X) of every single X, so it remains unique across types 09:20:22 without breaking the other rules 09:20:33 [[Dolfins grace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197028&oldid=196618 * Cordership * (+27) /* commands */ 09:20:56 oh so 1(X) is a workaround to not break the other constraints 09:21:02 that sounds like a problem 09:21:39 yes it is 09:21:41 lol 09:21:52 well I dunno if its a problem but it is a workaround to preserve uniqueness 09:22:06 yeah which is very unelegant 09:22:08 and not fun to solve for 09:22:16 theres not many other ways to do it 09:22:27 maybe you could just change how the function works 09:22:28 other than to define this class as a whole different like system of functions 09:22:43 [[Dolfins grace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197029&oldid=197028 * Cordership * (+19) 09:22:44 so that you *could* implement U in it 09:22:47 but dont have to 09:22:59 MarkFan8901: then it stops being connected to the original language to a large extent 09:23:11 hm 09:23:19 that implies the rest of the constraints are filler 09:23:19 also U isn't a builtin I ws using it to represent some arbitrary function in the class 09:23:26 [[Dolfins grace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197030&oldid=197029 * Cordership * (-18) /* commands */ 09:23:41 MarkFan8901: not really they set up a heavy part of how the language operates 09:23:51 hmh 09:24:04 its just if this class of functions disappear then one half of the language is gone 09:24:16 because most of the rules govern BOTH kinds of functions 09:24:20 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197031&oldid=196985 * BlueHaunter * (+142) 09:24:23 but, this class we just defined right? 09:24:32 is an exception 09:24:33 *, and I are both inside of it 09:24:58 see? 09:25:09 so they implement "cleanly" in a way 09:25:18 what if you work backwards from the class 09:25:25 yea thats true 09:25:27 like, define the class first in the constraints, then the rest of the language 09:25:44 I mean the rule that the functions have to like base uniqueness of of types right? 09:25:53 that could just be constrained to one part of the language 09:26:27 that implies multiple 'parts' of the language 09:26:52 part class whatever 09:27:14 which would supercede the current definition which speaks in terms of fundamentals 09:27:30 its only one rule which would be superceded 09:27:39 maybe two, not much 09:27:58 sry we werent clear 09:28:11 we meant it would supercede the attitude the current constraints have right now 09:28:27 which speak on the other 'part' of the language as if its the only one 09:29:53 [[Ceremonial]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197032 * BlueHaunter * (+9453) Ceremonial 4 ("ABYSS" edition) is a ritualistic, Turing-complete esolang that features letter-balance constraints, politeness quotas (pls), depth-based scope rules, triple checksums, ternary numbers, dynamic mood shifts, memory decay, and a Tkinter graphics engine. 09:30:44 ok we can replace that rule we would have to change: 09:30:44 1. Every function must either define uniqueness input to input, or type to type. 09:30:45 This means a function F which od the first, F(X) = F(Y) iff X = Y. 09:30:45 And every function G which does the second, F(X) = F(Y) iff X and Y are both in the same type. 09:31:00 now we can put this more elegant, if we just say ≈ is "they have equal types" 09:31:28 oh you can put that even more elegantly 09:31:40 1. every function must either work on value or type 09:31:46 1. Every function must either define uniqueness input to input, or type to type. 09:31:47 This means a function F which od the first, F(X) = F(Y) iff X = Y. 09:31:47 And every function G which does the second, F(X) = F(Y) iff X ≈ Y 09:34:01 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197033&oldid=197031 * BlueHaunter * (+41) 09:34:21 but MarkFan8901: yes thats very elegant 09:34:28 yay thank u 09:34:28 its not super formal but yea 09:34:55 1. Every function determines its output either based on the inputted value, or the inputted values type 09:34:56 i guess 09:35:53 1. for all functions f(x), f either works on x or x' 09:36:01 YEP! 09:36:05 thats it 09:36:27 and to pose it in the style I was before: 09:36:28 1. Every transform works either on X or X' 09:36:32 slightly different 09:37:07 THIS IS IT 09:37:07 ITS DONE 09:37:12 I CAN DIE NOW 09:37:14 lmmao 09:37:29 Hooh 09:37:41 i literally can't think of more rules 09:38:02 now its *your* turn /j 09:38:19 okay actually wait 09:38:19 hold on 09:38:26 describe how U works with this newfound terminology 09:38:36 ignore U 09:38:38 never existed 09:38:42 wtf... 09:38:44 that was a miscommunication 09:38:47 accident 09:38:49 didnt you say that was like half the language 09:38:49 im sorry 09:39:09 U was meant to represent every function that acted like that, like I(x) or *(x) 09:39:19 and the others which act on X and not P(X) 09:39:24 ahh 09:39:29 i was stupid 09:39:30 lmao 09:39:32 its oki 09:39:43 this is actually a very good learning point though 09:39:51 both for designing and solving constraint langs 09:39:55 yea!! 09:40:10 first time its rlly been done with the intent of being a constraintlang 09:40:14 ye 09:40:15 to our knowledge 09:40:24 we're doing important work here 09:40:30 yea!! 09:40:36 never done that beforeeee 09:40:58 constraintlang is a bad name I think. Conlang doesn't work thoigh 09:41:11 constraint VS Restrictiv? 09:41:14 wait how come constraint lang is a bad name 09:41:14 *restrict 09:41:22 its just very long I think 09:41:31 it would be nive with an additional term thats shorted 09:41:40 (additional, not replacement) 09:41:41 perchance 09:41:43 we think its a fine name though 09:41:47 like Esoteric Language VS Esolang 09:41:49 it has as many syllables as esolang 09:42:00 damn lmaa 09:42:02 *lmao 09:42:23 rulelang maybe? 09:42:26 maybe 'lang' isnt very apt here 09:42:31 since it defines a class of languages 09:42:32 not really 09:42:35 OH wait hold on 09:42:42 oooou 09:42:44 perhaps something could be done with set construction 09:42:54 huh yea 09:43:20 so actually set construction = constraint lang = declarative paradigm 09:43:27 (thai a jokelol) 09:43:34 no but like actually 09:43:48 you do realize constraint programming is a delcarative paradigm right 09:43:54 yes yes 09:43:59 as we say in denmark 09:44:00 jaja even 09:44:25 reminds us of that one meme 09:44:46 where its like "jajaja (spanish laughter)" "h*" "oh sorry, jhjhjh" 09:45:00 lol 09:45:49 : since the constraints could be considered the set constructors for the set of all languages that fit t 09:45:53 it* 09:46:11 preddi much yea 09:46:36 thats an interesting connection too between a logic solver(as in PROLOG) and a set constructor(AS in a constraintlang) 09:46:53 yee 09:50:12 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * BlueHaunter * uploaded "[[File:Ceremonialicon.png]]": the icon for ceremonial 09:50:21 hm what if we put all the constraints together now 09:50:43 ill do that 09:50:44 we elect to have one that says smth like "there exists 'entities' which are both values and transformations" 09:50:54 so you dont have to say values/tranformations all the time 09:50:59 go through the logs and all 09:51:05 MarkFan9801: THANKS 09:51:10 np np 09:51:11 thats GREAT! 09:51:16 excitement ensues 09:51:27 [[Ceremonial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197035&oldid=197032 * BlueHaunter * (+74) 09:51:45 ok but, I wonder how you can translate LANGUAGE constraints to say, LOGIC constraints 09:51:55 into the "normal" declarative domain 09:52:14 oh we were actually thinking about putting all the rules you put in fancy formal logic notation 09:52:25 and also. constraint languages could be described by aa Meta-declarative language 09:52:30 MarkFan8901: that would be nice 09:52:39 ill try! 09:52:51 im just not great with classical logic 09:53:04 wawa we dont mean we wanted you to do that 09:53:25 ah ok 09:53:28 you want to? 09:53:30 ye 09:53:40 i dont wanna set you to too much work over my little stupids 09:53:59 ya we'll only do the notation for the ones which we can do elegantly 09:54:04 ok col 09:54:18 also funny thing is a constraint language is just a very very ambiguous language 09:54:27 True... 09:54:37 its like ambiguous syntax but semantics instead 09:54:38 so ambigous you could create whole different LANGUAGES by reading the statements differently 09:54:45 [[Ceremonial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197036&oldid=197035 * BlueHaunter * (-309) Ceremonial 4 ("ABYSS" edition) is a ritualistic, Turing-complete esolang that features letter-balance constraints, politeness quotas (pls), depth-based scope rules, triple checksums, ternary numbers, dynamic mood shifts, memory decay, and a Tkinter graphics engine. 09:55:05 or in this case, filling in specific stuff in the ambiguous "holes" of the lang 09:55:12 ye 09:55:27 [[Ceremonial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197037&oldid=197036 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+138) meow (ha get it because categorization -> cat and cats meow? not funny didn't laugh) also hey graphical output! 09:56:23 "its like ambiguous syntax but semantics instead".... now im thinking, if those are equivalent, a syntax acts as a whole language, if complex enough? 09:56:31 this is kinda sketchy but maybe? 09:56:43 yes 09:56:44 it does 09:57:08 grammars are programming languages which turn a string of tokens into a corresponding tree 09:57:22 oh yea I forgot 09:57:27 so... 09:57:38 most language syntax is context sensitive 09:57:40 making them pda-complete 09:57:53 if you made a language whose syntax was unrestricted, that would make it turing complete 09:57:54 constraint languages = ambiguous grammars = set construction = declarative paradigm 09:58:12 *thats weird* 09:58:22 yee 09:58:53 the only thin here is the =. We could try, some day, at some point, to try and find the translation between the thingd 09:58:56 the general theme of "find solutions from vague rules" has tons of reach in computer science 09:58:57 *things 09:59:05 MarkFan8901: thats also true 09:59:32 I wonder if theres a connection here to the "logic system = type system" 09:59:36 we'd say constraint languages, ambiguous grammars, and set construction are all examples of declarative programming 09:59:45 thats true 09:59:56 yayimheretoo: that feels like it already exists 10:00:07 [[Ceremonial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197038&oldid=197037 * Dragoneater67 * (+29) /* Printing hello world in Ceremonial */ tag slop 10:00:07 but if it doesnt, we think a good place to start would be with modal logic 10:00:32 hold on brb we're gonna pe 10:00:37 no type system = logic exists, but, does constraint language = type system or smth like that exist 10:00:48 cya MarKFan8901! 10:03:07 back 10:03:15 hi! 10:03:27 yayimheretoo: it would probably imply a type system in the metalanguage describing it 10:03:49 [[Ceremonial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197039&oldid=197038 * BlueHaunter * (+57) Ceremonial 4 ("ABYSS" edition) is a ritualistic, Turing-complete esolang that features letter-balance constraints, politeness quotas (pls), depth-based scope rules, triple checksums, ternary numbers, dynamic mood shifts, memory decay, and a Tkinter graphics engine. 10:04:10 Markfan8901: prolly 10:04:20 [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197040&oldid=196983 * Blashyrkh * (+2982) /* Lazy K */ 2523 bytes [[Quine]] 10:04:20 Also we feel like that meta-declarative language could just be defined via algebraic constraints 10:04:26 probably 10:04:43 [[Ceremonial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197041&oldid=197039 * Dragoneater67 * (-57) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/197039|197039]] by [[Special:Contributions/BlueHaunter|BlueHaunter]] ([[User talk:BlueHaunter|talk]]) the page was obviously writren by an llm 10:04:51 perhaps it would be a language which abstracts over algebra 10:05:12 also, weird language thing, we've been using the term constraint language to refer to te thing rules themselves- whats the resulting language called? a solved language? 10:05:14 hmmm 10:05:23 like the "denynom" almost 10:05:30 the constrained language 10:05:38 the solution language 10:05:43 yea 10:05:57 ye solution language sounds like the best term 10:05:58 the solution or solved language provides more clear distinction 10:06:19 we prefer solution cuz solved sounds like the language itself was solved 10:06:23 and not the constraints 10:06:44 i also prefer solution 10:06:48 [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197042&oldid=197026 * Blashyrkh * (+38) Shorter [[Quine]] @ [[Lazy K]] (2644 > 2523) 10:07:13 nice 10:07:13 : like how haskell abstracts over lambda calculus 10:07:27 de67 and Markfan8901: yep 10:07:41 we wonder if such a language could be made turing complete to define uncomputable languages 10:08:03 maybe some weird arithmetical hierarchy shenanigans could be roped into this 10:08:36 just everything in one 10:08:37 lmao 10:08:46 Yea fuck it the whole smorgasboard 10:08:51 [[Ceremonial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197043&oldid=197041 * BlueHaunter * (-851) Ceremonial 4 ("ABYSS" edition) is a ritualistic, Turing-complete esolang that features letter-balance constraints, politeness quotas (pls), depth-based scope rules, triple checksums, ternary numbers, dynamic mood shifts, memory decay, and a Tkinter graphics engine. 10:08:59 [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197044&oldid=196243 * Blashyrkh * (-233) /* Lazy K */ Shorter version (2644 > 2523) 10:10:10 [[Ceremonial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197045&oldid=197043 * BlueHaunter * (+4) 10:10:29 man this is fun 10:10:36 yes 10:10:41 like its rare I'll have SO much fun messing with esolang stuff 10:10:53 to think this discussion spawned of fucking FWOTD 10:11:08 sign that you can grow your esolanging skills 10:11:28 [[Ceremonial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197046&oldid=197045 * Dragoneater67 * (-46) 10:11:40 its not that I dont have fun, its just more fun with other people 10:11:47 ah 10:11:49 ye 10:11:54 :3 10:11:59 lol 10:11:59 MarkFan8901: something weird about it, when we stop judging languages for being low effort we suddenly see way more things that can be done with any ideas put in front of us 10:12:13 MarkFan8901: yea 10:12:14 theres a whole discussion between us and ais and someone else talking about fucking constant languages of all things 10:12:22 oh huh 10:12:28 but yea its true 10:12:33 supposedly the epitome of low effort got us talking about like, cyclic quines 10:12:45 a program a which outputs program b, which outputs program a again 10:12:48 I think part of it might be what seems simple to humans isn't simple to a machine? 10:12:53 [[Ceremonial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197047&oldid=197046 * BlueHaunter * (-5) 10:12:58 [[Ceremonial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197048&oldid=197047 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+138) recategorize 10:12:59 MarkFan8901: oh yea I know Quines:) 10:13:13 is [[Quines:)]] an esolang 10:13:22 [[Ceremonial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197049&oldid=197048 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+5) link to your userpage unless you have your own mainspace page 10:13:26 should be 10:13:36 but I know of cyclic quines 10:13:37 yayimheretoo: ye that feels like a big part of it 10:13:50 Markfan8901: humans are weird uknow 10:13:51 lmao 10:13:53 translating your own thoughts and feelings into such a different system is weird and satisfying when you do it right 10:14:01 knowledge expansion 10:14:05 [[Ceremonial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197050&oldid=197049 * BlueHaunter * (+12) 10:14:05 truly truly 10:14:11 actually yknow what would be funny 10:14:18 ooo 10:14:36 an esolang based off a third system which is distinct from human thought and computer languages 10:14:55 so you would have to put considerable work to describe it in either 10:15:08 heh the concept of 'implementing' an idea in language 10:15:20 lmao. yea thats cool 10:15:27 reminds me of some informal maths I was doing 10:15:36 [[Ceremonial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197051&oldid=197050 * Dragoneater67 * (+46) 10:15:45 not that relevant though 10:16:29 uh we forgor our train of thought 10:16:35 lol 10:16:39 what if you type out the new constraints for that language again 10:16:41 train crash 10:16:44 with the newfound knowledge 10:16:52 MarkFan8901: I will late 10:16:55 but rn 10:16:57 im dead 10:17:00 okik 10:17:14 does that mean ur going to bed 10:17:16 I played my first music gig yesterday and know I ave done quite a bit of thinking on top of that, I need to chill out lol 10:17:23 oh hel yea 10:17:28 yeah you should get some rest 10:17:39 im not going to bed lol its 12.17 ! 10:17:50 fungot kill her fnord 10:17:50 MarkFan8901: which means i disclaim all interest in controlling what people do unless they bother me 10:18:06 also huh 10:18:11 fsr we assumed you were in the same time zone as us 10:18:12 why does that fit in weirdly perfectly 10:18:15 rn its 3am for us 10:18:19 damn 10:18:22 im in Denmark so idk 10:18:26 yea ur not 10:18:38 im not in Denmark? 10:18:42 *teleports* 10:18:45 lmao 10:18:47 AH 10:19:05 oh? 10:19:18 we were gonna continue that but we hesitated 10:19:23 here's what the bit would have been: 10:19:26 AH 10:19:31 (you teleported into our room) 10:19:39 ah 10:19:47 *shoots you* 10:19:49 This is america. 10:19:51 thats made me giigle 10:19:54 ujhjj 10:19:56 and THAT 10:19:58 hwat just happen 10:20:01 made my laugh the fuck off 10:20:07 theres tons of spam in #esolanging 10:20:16 my bad 10:20:21 and theres murder going on in here 10:20:21 sorry 10:20:29 what murder 10:20:31 ChimeraAnova: its ok 10:20:38 yayimheretoo got murdered in america 10:20:56 holy shit makes so much se 10:20:57 it was self defense actually /tongueincheek 10:21:01 dammit 10:21:15 Oh I see now 10:21:17 pressed enter not delete 10:21:32 fungot: how much se do you make on average 10:21:32 MarkFan8901: users other than me has a copy of scheme.cgi and call it 10:21:35 Markfan has their tounge so far inside their cheeck 10:21:54 fungot: ok i guess 10:21:54 yayimheretoo: yes ok for larceny fnord from fnord 10:22:03 fungot: esolang 10:22:03 MarkFan8901: no. my mom's not here silly. and she's scared of snow. 10:22:16 that just seems like one big token 10:22:24 fungor's mom is scared of snow? 10:22:40 I mean fungot's mom is probably esolangs to be fair 10:22:40 yayimheretoo: even nome. nome thinks it is 10:22:42 fun got has a mom? 10:22:44 btw 10:22:47 esolangs: rawr :3 xd rawrr *nuzzles u* >w< 10:22:54 MarkFan8901: The script would replace 'rawr' with 'a:3', 'xd' with 'f', 'rawrr' with 'a:3', '*nuzzles' with 'l', 'u*' with 't', and '>w<' with ' '. The resulting batch file would contain the modified text, effectively replacing the specified words and emotes with their corresponding replacements. The script then executes this modified batch file, which displays... 10:22:54 the output. 10:22:55 wow 10:22:56 what should we do regarding thue? 10:22:59 damn it 10:23:03 de67: wym 10:23:05 its been featyred for years now 10:23:09 featured* 10:23:10 oh right 10:23:11 oh yea 10:23:15 ummmmmmmmmm, 10:23:19 hm what are some other good candidates 10:23:25 de67: i think i've seen three different attempts at replacing it 10:23:28 the second the constraint language is done, it goes up there /j 10:23:29 none have come to fruition 10:23:32 TURE....... 10:23:34 [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197052&oldid=197040 * Blashyrkh * (+359) /* 2523 bytes */ Few more info 10:23:40 fungot: define TURE 10:23:40 yayimheretoo: you mean he? :) what implementation do you use escaped symbols instead of strings. 10:23:49 HE..... 10:23:51 lol 10:24:02 i think that we should all go to [[Esolang talk: Featured languages]] and express our opinions 10:24:09 anyway as for candidates 10:24:09 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Featured_languages/Candidates 10:24:13 there's a list 10:24:34 wait has befunge not been a featured language yet? 10:24:48 seems like it 10:24:51 apparently not 10:24:53 goddamn it hasnt 10:24:54 "Languages with more novel concepts and themes are given preference. That is, languages with obscure paradigms are given preference to those that have many siblings and, for example, two stack-based languages are unlikely to be featured consecutively." this requirement applies to constraint languages 10:25:00 that should 100% take featured language 10:25:08 thats true thats so true 10:25:16 truer words not been spoken 10:25:44 ya like 10:25:56 brainfuck, malbolge, and deadfish are all esolang greatest hits 10:26:00 so is befunge 10:26:32 id rather have something obscure featured 10:26:35 The fact that Befunge hasn't been featured is hard to believe since it was (one of) the first 2d languages 10:26:42 And it's kinda befuddling the first time 10:26:42 something like [[Three Star Programmer]] 10:26:52 its like literally one of the og esolangs 10:27:03 de67: perchance 10:27:27 maybe there should be like a stack of featured languages to come up 10:27:38 so we dont run out and have some huge gap like this for so long 10:27:43 true 10:27:48 PANCAKES 10:27:57 ugh we want pancakes now 10:28:00 me too 10:28:13 yayimheretoo do that teleporting thing again 10:28:15 we'll make some for you 10:28:34 hmm i wonder if i should keep my nomination on FALSE or try and find something else 10:28:39 MarkFan8901: sounds like something a serial killer would say 10:28:46 de67: wtf.... 10:28:50 dont judge a book by its cover 10:29:01 MarkFan8901: it only works if im told im in another timezones 10:29:04 (has a shirt that says "SERIAL KILLER" on it) 10:29:17 so is the cook 12.29 10:29:21 where I am? 10:29:28 well I dunno about the cook ut the CLOCK 10:29:28 its at 3:29 actually 10:29:32 BOOM 10:29:35 GIMME PANCAKES 10:29:39 *shoots you* 10:29:40 This is america. 10:29:47 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:29:55 i havent made esolangs in a long time (3 days) 10:30:05 joke so good it killed the audience 10:30:16 de67: esolang junkie 10:30:19 every time I die I just am in 12.30 agaiin 10:30:29 i just realize 10:30:38 youre timezone is gmt+2 10:30:49 mine? 10:30:53 yes 10:31:02 nah its gmt+3 (teleports) 10:31:22 yayimheretoo, de67, MarkFan8901: how many of you know of Brain-Flak? i used to think it was well-known but i'm realizing i don't actually know 10:31:33 ive heard of it 10:31:35 might have heard of it once 10:31:42 but it got lost in the sea of brain farces 10:31:45 PkmnQ: tried to read its article but yes 10:31:50 *just 10:31:52 oh ywa 10:31:54 I couldn't man 10:31:55 i know it 10:32:23 how much do you know about it? i'm considering possibly replacing my nomination of FALSE with it 10:32:39 we basically know next to nothing about it 10:32:42 PkmnQ: i know that it exists 10:32:42 we are just reading up on it 10:33:17 nothing lol 10:33:22 [[Ceremonial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197053&oldid=197051 * BlueHaunter * (+0) 10:33:24 its quite interesting that 3 of ais523's esolangs are currently nominated 10:33:29 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * JustSomeDude * New user account 10:33:47 yea ais consistently makes high quality langs 10:33:51 and has made lots of them 10:34:06 hm 10:34:21 maybe i should get better at consistency 10:34:34 cuz currently the quality of what i make varies 10:34:46 ye 10:34:47 its 2 crappy esolangs per 1 good esolang or so 10:35:31 ais is also just like straight up a mathematician sooooo 10:35:41 ye 10:36:01 and also toys heavily with video game stuff 10:36:07 i think ais523 sometimes goes by the name Alex Smith 10:36:09 we actually saw his name in a video about smb3 arbitrary code execution 10:36:13 atleast on nethack4.org 10:36:30 de67: I think its his real name 10:36:37 yea it makes sense 10:36:45 yayimheretoo: might be a pseduonym 10:36:47 who knows 10:36:47 he just has knowledge of other programming stuff than esolanging 10:36:52 de67: idk 10:36:59 yayimheretoo: maybe thats why hes so good 10:37:00 it was used on NKS atleast lol 10:37:09 he has more points of reference for ideas 10:37:12 MarkFan8901: I think so 10:37:24 or more accurately, he lets himself use more points of references 10:37:33 yes 10:37:35 most of the people on this wiki have a life outside of esolanging 10:37:40 all* 10:38:00 yes, but a programming one specifically? 10:38:08 ya that makes for a good combo 10:38:32 why would a non programmer be here? 10:38:33 however we think perhaps thats not necessary to achieve ais' creativity 10:38:52 iirc keymarker is not a programmer 10:38:53 de67: idk why im here man 10:38:53 de67: ask Bone1 #BoomShotsFired /j 10:38:55 None1* 10:38:56 shit 10:38:57 the jokes ruined 10:38:59 hes still good at esolanging 10:39:04 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197054&oldid=197033 * JustSomeDude * (+252) /* Introductions */ 10:39:18 who tf is Bone1 10:39:23 we meant None1 10:39:39 ikik 10:39:39 we think we're gonna go to bed 10:39:42 cya 10:39:43 cya 10:39:49 bbye then MarkFan8901!!! 10:39:53 it was very fun to speak 10:39:54 -!- MarkFan8901 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 10:40:04 yayimheretoo: none of us spoke 10:40:16 idk man 10:40:16 to converse via text messages? 10:40:22 we were all just clicking buttons to compose sentences out of glyphs 10:40:42 and sending them using radio waves 10:40:42 imma leave now im fuckin tired and dry 10:40:45 cya 10:41:00 bye:] 10:41:07 -!- yayimheretoo has quit (Quit: Client closed). 10:42:14 hmm bad timing but I just now remembered Incident 10:43:19 what incident? 10:43:24 oh is that an esolang? 10:44:41 something about it seems novel enough to be featured, I don't think I understand it well enough to be able to write the paragraph for it though, so I'll stick with Brain-Flak as my nomination for now 10:46:34 oh 10:46:44 incident is that pattern based esolang 10:46:54 it looka cool atleast 10:47:20 i kinda like pattern based esolangs 10:47:36 but imagine how cool a pattern based metalanguage would be 10:48:03 itd be even cooler if the source code was nontextual 10:48:41 yeah the pattern-based thing is pretty novel on its own, but even beyond that it's interesting to me even only considering the semantics without the syntax 10:53:14 [[User:JustSomeDude]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197055 * JustSomeDude * (+23) Created page with "JustSomeDude user page." 10:59:06 -!- Everything has joined. 11:08:06 [[Ceremonial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197056&oldid=197053 * BlueHaunter * (-12) 11:11:14 [[Oceanfunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197057&oldid=196718 * Cordership * (+0) /* Syntax */ 11:15:14 [[2D BF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197058&oldid=194996 * Cordership * (+14) 11:49:07 -!- yayimheretoo has joined. 11:49:31 hi again 11:52:01 -!- de67 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:53:06 dragoneater died in a horrible car crash 12:05:44 [[Ceremonial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197059&oldid=197056 * BlueHaunter * (+95) 12:08:05 [[Minez]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197060&oldid=195866 * * (+0) Broken category fixed. 12:09:37 -!- de67 has joined. 12:19:27 [[CRAZYLANG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197061&oldid=192845 * GraysonLaux * (+104) 12:27:52 ^echo xx-90-6202 no deusne soahc neht dna "kramose" dias enoemoS 12:27:52 xx-90-6202 no deusne soahc neht dna "kramose" dias enoemoS xx-90-6202 no deusne soahc neht dna "kramose" dias enoemoS 12:32:07 ??? 12:32:25 oh 12:32:37 this is #esolangs btw 12:33:07 lol 12:47:53 HackEso: P'' magnet 12:56:35 [[Ceremonial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197062&oldid=197059 * BlueHaunter * (+25406) 12:58:31 wtf 12:58:39 ??? 12:59:35 Ohh 13:00:02 25406 bytes for syntax highlighting span tags is insane tbh 13:00:07 [[Ceremonial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197063&oldid=197062 * Dragoneater67 * (+2) /* Printing hello world in Ceremonial */ 13:00:27 [[Ceremonial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197064&oldid=197063 * Dragoneater67 * (+5) /* Drawing a Shape in Ceremonial (graphics test + drawing a window) */ 13:00:34 Syntax highlighting is mesmerizing tho so I think there should be an HTML syntax highlighting golfing tool 13:00:48 -!- de67 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:01:08 -!- de67 has joined. 13:01:12 Syntax highlighting killed you 13:01:12 vm 13:01:14 vnvm 13:01:14 nvm 13:04:02 [[User:PkmnQ/Golf]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197065&oldid=196995 * PkmnQ * (+179) 13:11:16 [[Ceremonial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197066&oldid=197064 * BlueHaunter * (-7) 13:13:04 [[Dianoia]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197067&oldid=184195 * * (+0) Broken link fixed. 13:16:05 [[Push-down automaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197068&oldid=21146 * * (+21) Broken link fixed. 13:17:39 [[Assembly++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197069&oldid=192453 * * (+0) Broken category fixed. 13:26:10 -!- ChimeraAnovaTest has joined. 13:40:00 [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197070&oldid=197052 * Blashyrkh * (+347) /* Lazy K Quine */ Improve explanation 13:53:10 [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197071&oldid=197024 * A random guy * (+358) 14:00:08 [[User:A random guy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197072&oldid=195923 * A random guy * (+222) 14:00:55 [[User:A random guy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197073&oldid=197072 * A random guy * (+12) 14:02:18 [[User:A random guy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197074&oldid=197073 * A random guy * (+62) 14:17:07 -!- yayimheretoo has quit (Quit: Client closed). 14:20:06 [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197075&oldid=197071 * Dragoneater67 * (+207) /* Can NANDlang, or maybe as a extension, NANDlang+ become implemented? */ 14:28:28 -!- amby has joined. 14:34:31 hi amby 14:37:48 [[Ceremonial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197076&oldid=197066 * Dragoneater67 * (+7) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/197066|197066]] by [[Special:Contributions/BlueHaunter|BlueHaunter]] ([[User talk:BlueHaunter|talk]]) undo vandalism 14:40:36 -!- inhahe has joined. 14:46:03 -!- inhahe has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:52:02 -!- yayimheretoo has joined. 14:53:16 -!- inhahe has joined. 14:58:53 -!- inhahe has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:08:38 -!- inhahe has joined. 15:13:29 [[Bitch, Ienai!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197077 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+4120) Created page with "'''Bitch, Ienai!''' is arguably a single language, but also a family of languages, created by [[User:Yayimhere]] with assistance from [[User:MarkFan8901]]. How does this make any sense? Well, this is because it is a constraint language. A constraint lan 15:13:42 [[Bitch, Ienai!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197078&oldid=197077 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+0) 15:14:34 hey PkmnQ, you seemed interested in my and Markfan's convo, and the resulting constraint language was just documented. would you wanna give it a try and solve it? 15:14:41 this is it, btw: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bitch,_Ienai! 15:16:40 id flag the page as ai slop due to the excessive use of bolding and and bullet points, but i doubt that youd use an llm to write a wikipage 15:17:12 oh and also some of your writing quirks tell me that it was you who wrote the page 15:17:30 i've heard llms are bad at wiki format 15:17:41 it aint llm I can tell ya that 15:17:56 the most obvious being the fact that you never put spaces before the opening parantheses 15:18:13 the bolding, if you notice, is on the same words every time, because its to make clear its this pages specific definition of those words 15:18:21 de67: lol yep 15:18:29 the second most obvious, which requires carefuly reading the page, is the fact thats its a bit informal 15:18:41 ofc. 15:18:49 to an extent thats bad? 15:19:02 not really 15:19:16 it at least gets the point across 15:19:17 great! 15:24:20 [[Esolang talk:Featured languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197079&oldid=184280 * Dragoneater67 * (+732) /* Thue has been featured for 7+ years */ new section 15:25:14 hopefully THIS will result in the end of thue's dictatorship 15:26:37 i think that esolanging wiki page should have etymology section 15:27:25 iterate should be the next featured language :) (EXTREMELY BIASED) 15:27:41 aadenboy: watch me do something 15:28:06 in a fit of ego and slef appreciation I nominate All of my GOod esolangs for featured. Since I am so goated 15:28:14 also good morning 15:28:20 good morning aadenboy 15:28:37 good morning aadenboy!!! 15:28:43 i have awesome life advice for you: dont wait for your next esolang 15:28:45 on the topic of submitting ones own language for smth 15:28:56 de67: ? 15:28:59 I MADE A THING. YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED! lol 15:29:01 thats what happened to me 15:29:10 i created a subpage called miracle 15:29:25 i waited for a good idea to spawn in my mind 15:29:37 i quitting esolanging 15:29:44 for a month or so 15:30:04 and then returned 15:30:22 moral of the story: uuuh 15:30:24 my subpages are mostly braindumps 15:30:34 it is a graveyard of ideas! 15:30:37 mostly 15:30:39 aadenboy: you could say, [[brainfart]]s 15:30:55 get it? im advertising my own esolang! 15:30:59 genius 15:31:09 de67: [[Mhm!]] I do! 15:31:17 i was about to too but it probably didn't grab enough attention for me to actually do it 15:31:36 about drafts, I think [[User:Aadenboy/ɻ]] has potential 15:31:45 we dont share timezones, so a lot of my activity on this irc channel could be described as a [[soliloquy]] 15:31:54 aadenboy lemme see 15:32:33 looks cool, too bad i skimmed through the page and understood nothing 15:34:23 ok 15:34:27 i think i understood it 15:34:31 it seems interesting 15:34:53 it might be able to do stuff similarly to nopfunge and friends 15:35:15 I thought "friends" was the name of an esolang lmao 15:35:29 no 15:35:46 nopfunge and friends refers to nopfunge and esolangs similar to nopfunge 15:35:54 like nopfunge solid and yoctofunge 15:49:58 -!- yayimheretoo has quit (Quit: Client closed). 15:50:18 -!- yayimheretoo has joined. 16:05:30 -!- ChimeraAnovaTest has quit (Quit: Client closed). 16:05:37 -!- ChimeraAnova has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:14:26 -!- ChimeraAnova has joined. 16:20:54 -!- yayimheretoo has quit (Ping timeout: 262 seconds). 16:24:21 -!- ChimeraAnova has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:27:54 -!- yayimheretoo has joined. 16:32:54 -!- ChimeraAnova has joined. 16:50:08 `base 16:50:11 base? No such file or directory 16:51:50 -!- de88 has joined. 16:52:55 -!- de67 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 16:53:08 -!- de88 has changed nick to de67. 16:57:18 -!- inhahe has quit (Quit: Bouncer shutting down). 17:00:33 -!- de67 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 17:00:43 -!- de67 has joined. 17:00:45 -!- Everything has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:01:43 holy hell 17:02:03 were all gonna die 17:06:54 -!- ^[ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:10:17 -!- PkmnQ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:13:45 -!- ChimeraAnova has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:13:47 -!- de98 has joined. 17:16:58 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Myepicuse012940 * New user account 17:17:22 thats quite a random username 17:18:15 -!- de67 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 17:18:26 -!- yayimheretoo has quit (Quit: Client closed). 17:18:31 -!- ^[ has joined. 17:18:52 -!- de98 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 17:19:02 -!- de67 has joined. 17:19:32 -!- de67 has quit (Client Quit). 17:20:02 -!- de67 has joined. 17:20:47 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197080&oldid=197054 * Myepicuse012940 * (+178) i added me 17:21:10 correct grammar! 17:44:25 alr bye guys 17:44:27 -!- de67 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:47:55 [[Brainfuck NEVER CLEAR]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197081 * Myepicuse012940 * (+1995) makes a page 17:48:28 [[Brainfuck NEVER CLEAR]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197082&oldid=197081 * Myepicuse012940 * (-112) 17:51:21 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197083&oldid=196924 * Myepicuse012940 * (+28) added brainfuck never clear 17:56:18 -!- sftp has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:01:46 [[Brainfuck NEVER CLEAR]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197084&oldid=197082 * Dragoneater67 * (-240) /* Computational Class */ 18:01:56 [[Brainfuck NEVER CLEAR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197085&oldid=197084 * Dragoneater67 * (+2) /* Computational Class */ 18:14:41 -!- sftp has joined. 18:14:41 -!- sftp has changed hostmask to ~sftp@user/sftp. 18:35:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine). 18:37:22 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 18:37:51 -!- dbohdan has quit (Ping timeout: 254 seconds). 18:40:21 -!- dbohdan has joined. 18:50:40 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:53:03 The canonical order of a set of integers in DER will be the ordinary order if there are no negative integers, but if some are negative then the order is a bit more mixed up. 18:55:00 Before each number which is half of a power of 256, there will be the negative numbers, negative of the half of the power of 256, and then increasing up to whatever number was already included in this order. 18:56:51 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aadenboy * uploaded "[[File:Esobug.png]]": Bug [[Esolang:Trilime|trilime]] 18:57:33 [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197087&oldid=196747 * Aadenboy * (+45) figured I should Perhaps upload it 18:57:48 The canonical order of a set of bit strings is by (7 XOR ((Length in bits) - 1)), and then the ordinary order for bit strings with the same length than each other. 18:58:12 [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197088&oldid=197087 * Aadenboy * (+0) hm 19:13:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:18:21 -!- joast has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:39:59 [[Bitch, Ienai!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197089&oldid=197078 * MarkFan8901 * (-489) rewrite first paragraph to be more concise + remove mention of the 'base' solution (it should be on a subpage to avoid spoilers) 19:42:15 [[Bitch, Ienai!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197090&oldid=197089 * MarkFan8901 * (+1) 19:53:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:54:14 I was reading a discussion (as part of the design of a serious language) about how 0-bit signed integers should behave 19:54:56 after thinking about it for a while, it turns out that to be consistent with signed integers of other bitwidths, the value of a 0-bit signed integer should be -0.5 (which has its own problems due to not being traditionally considered an integer) 19:55:09 (0-bit unsigned integers are fine, they have the value 0 as expected) 20:00:32 since all bits set would be the negative of half of the maximum value unsigned? that doesn't make sense in words actually but I assume that's related to how that number is found 20:00:48 2^0 = 1 20:01:21 the clearest argument to me is that for all other widths of signed integers, if you average all the possible values, the average is -0.5 20:01:29 so that should also be true in the case where there's only one value 20:03:07 but you can also figure it out using formulas like "the maximum is 2**(n-1)-1 and the minimum is -2**(n-1)" which causes both the maximum and minimum to be -0.5 20:05:07 I wonder why 0-bit signed ints were being discussed 20:06:51 or maybe disallow signed 0-bit numbers because there is no sign bit 20:06:56 [[SLOW ACV MAMMALIAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197091&oldid=188639 * Bangyen * (-104) /* Examples */ Add a short H example and remove prose annotations from runnable Hello World code 20:07:46 and then there are also one-s complement and sign magnitude options which average to 0 20:08:35 [[SLOW ACV MAMMALIAN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197092&oldid=197091 * Bangyen * (-872) 20:13:13 [[Talk:Bitch, Ienai!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197093 * MarkFan8901 * (+296) /* Bitch, Ienai!/Solution */ new section 20:13:43 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 269 seconds). 20:15:07 -!- joast has joined. 20:17:38 [[SLOW ACV MAMMALIAN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197094&oldid=197092 * Bangyen * (-28) /* Print H */ Quote literal output in heading and remove redundant sentence 20:27:30 -!- Melvar has joined. 20:31:21 aadenboy: well, the language allowed both signed and unsigned integers with other numbers of bits 20:31:41 and possibly didn't realise that the minimum widths for signed and unsinged integers before the pattern breaks down are different 20:32:39 int-e: and two's-complement with a sentinel value rather than an asymmetric range (in which case a 0-bit signed integer makes sense but has only the sentinel value, no actual values) 20:34:25 FWIW, "unsinged" is one of my favorite typos 20:36:42 I like it too (but it wasn't intentional) 20:37:20 I also like "rouge" for "rogue", which seems to be something like >50% in people who aren't used to typing "rogue" regularly (oddly, I have the opposite problem, using "rogue" on a regular basis I find I need extra concentration to type "rouge") 21:53:18 [[Bitch, Ienai!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197095&oldid=197090 * MarkFan8901 * (-25) more rewording 21:53:40 [[Bitch, Ienai!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197096&oldid=197095 * MarkFan8901 * (+1) 21:55:06 [[Talk:Bitch, Ienai!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197097&oldid=197093 * MarkFan8901 * (+3) 21:56:02 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ayaandh * New user account 21:57:32 [[Bitch, Ienai!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197098&oldid=197096 * MarkFan8901 * (-15) more rewording top paragraph 21:58:49 [[Bitch, Ienai!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197099&oldid=197098 * MarkFan8901 * (-2) 22:01:12 [[Bitch, Ienai!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197100&oldid=197099 * MarkFan8901 * (-7) 22:01:25 [[Bitch, Ienai!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197101&oldid=197100 * MarkFan8901 * (+1) 22:07:31 [[Bitch, Ienai!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197102&oldid=197101 * MarkFan8901 * (-9) 22:14:52 c 22:14:54 u 22:32:12 Rogue rouges and rouge rogues 22:37:47 throws me off that the IPA symbol for voiced velar plosive is /ɡ/ (U+0261) since the tail is open 22:37:54 `unidecode gɡ 22:37:58 ​[U+0067 LATIN SMALL LETTER G] [U+0261 LATIN SMALL LETTER SCRIPT G] 23:07:17 I had also thought about 0-bit signed integers, and also thought of -0.5 but that is not a integer and a 0-bit signed integer is presumably not valid. ASN.1 says that a 0-bit integer value (represented as 2U<> in TER) is not valid, presumably for the same reason that I had thought of and you had mentioned also. 23:08:52 (If it were valid, it would come before all positive and negative integers in the canonical order that I mentioned)