00:00:04 <MarkFan8901> we think perhaps assigning some (relatively) rigid meaning to words and fitting them into those nodes would work
00:00:31 <MarkFan8901> if they were rigid enough it would become imperative
00:01:10 <MarkFan8901> but then if you *also* had not-so-rigid words on top of that, you could theoretically write a program both declaratively and imperatively
00:02:57 <MarkFan8901> then you could train an ai to compress imperative programs into their declarative counterparts
00:03:26 <MarkFan8901> and then end up with the rigid definitions of the declarative words
00:04:45 <MarkFan8901> you could then filter programs through it both ways; you can turn an imperative program into a delcarative program for an explanation of what it does, and vice versa for code generation from natural language
00:05:46 <MarkFan8901> hm, this sounds like a graph rewriting problem
00:06:21 <MarkFan8901> though its not as simple; the language would have to have some sort of non-linear control over how their rewriting rules work
00:07:36 <MarkFan8901> oh an issue with that would be if you described an uncomputable problem in natural language
00:08:12 <MarkFan8901> perhaps the ai could also be trained to learn if certain problems are uncomputable
00:13:27 <MarkFan8901> oh that would require the ability to prove things are uncomputable
00:14:26 <MarkFan8901> it would also have to apply said logic for questions where even constructing the proof of uncomputability is uncomputable
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00:31:48 <MarkFan8901> ..this made us read up on typesafe ai's website
00:33:00 <MarkFan8901> besides the incredibly weird feelings that we have about being right on why ai is being pursued so intensely right now (unrelated to anything we've said in this channel before), jev actually seems to have the same exact principles as what we're going for
00:33:18 <MarkFan8901> except it still relies on natural language and (assumingly) neural networks
00:34:54 <MarkFan8901> our ideas for an ai are like a 'pure' jev, COMPLETELY broken off from any sort of biological features (like neurons or speech) and is purely computational
00:39:59 <MarkFan8901> ah yea it uses the term 'neuro-symbolic ai' in one of the footnotes of its manifesto
00:41:53 <esolangs> [[England is a country in the United Kingdom and its main cultural export is this one stupid esolang. The main reason it exists is to have one of if not the longest name on the esolangs wiki. LOL, deal with it admins.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197576&oldid=183206 * Hotcrystal0 * (+47)
00:42:06 <esolangs> [[England is a country in the United Kingdom and its main cultural export is this one stupid esolang. The main reason it exists is to have one of if not the longest name on the esolangs wiki. LOL, deal with it admins.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197577&oldid=197576 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1)
00:42:17 <esolangs> [[England is a country in the United Kingdom and its main cultural export is this one stupid esolang. The main reason it exists is to have one of if not the longest name on the esolangs wiki. LOL, deal with it admins.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197578&oldid=197577 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
00:43:16 <esolangs> [[English (ASCIIguy)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197579 * Hotcrystal0 * (+229) Redirected page to [[England is a country in the United Kingdom and its main cultural export is this one stupid esolang. The main reason it exists is to have one of if not the longest name on the esolangs wiki. LOL, deal with it admins.]]
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02:06:57 <esolangs> [[Talk:Quaternions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197580&oldid=197554 * Cleverxia * (+167) /* "Octonion" or "Octonerion" - proper spelling? */
02:07:37 <esolangs> [[Quaternions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197581&oldid=197551 * Cleverxia * (-8) /* Octonerions */ spelling
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02:27:52 <MarkFan8901> a set of rules for which graphs correspond to others
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02:29:21 <MarkFan8901> actually hold on lets put it all into one message
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02:31:09 <de67> ive read the logs btw
02:32:10 <MarkFan8901> <MarkFan8901: a set of rules for which graphs correspond to others>: thats a very incomplete description but thats the base idea
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02:32:48 <de67> is that graph rewriting?
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02:33:36 <MarkFan8901> graph rewriting is what the solver uses to make the control flow defined by the correspondences
02:35:50 <MarkFan8901> in other words, the solver finds a set of graph rewriting rules that follow the correspondences correctly
02:36:07 <MarkFan8901> ofc you can solve that trivially by directly rewriting each graph into the other
02:36:22 <MarkFan8901> but the interesting part happens when you enforce minimal rewriting rules
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02:37:52 <MarkFan8901> Lord_of_Life cant decide if they like this channel or not
02:41:14 <MarkFan8901> maybe graph rewriting is the wrong strategy here
02:41:37 <MarkFan8901> cuz we keep thinking of commands that would be useful that couldnt be implemented efficiently just by rewriting alone
02:41:43 <de67> you need tree rewriting
02:41:51 <de67> where each node is a matrix
02:41:57 <MarkFan8901> we have the same suspicion with tree rewriting
02:42:14 <de67> a matrix of weights
02:42:19 <de67> that decide your fate
02:42:28 <de67> you either die in a nuclear apocalypse
02:42:45 <de67> or die from a disease that drives you mad
02:42:56 <MarkFan8901> Harvard Scientist Predicts the Future of AI
02:45:47 <MarkFan8901> what we Really need is a few base commands
02:45:52 <MarkFan8901> which can create new commands really easily
02:46:12 <MarkFan8901> but can also destroy commands really easily too
02:46:20 <de67> so we need atoms
02:46:21 <MarkFan8901> and some weird third thing which efficiently re-groups commands
02:46:36 <MarkFan8901> perhaps that regrouping could also take care of both creation and deletion
02:47:11 <MarkFan8901> say you have some bf program that outputs hello world, right
02:47:22 <de67> we scramble it do smth else?
02:48:03 <MarkFan8901> imagine you were giving definitions to groups of those commands
02:48:27 <MarkFan8901> you could define the groups in multiple ways, with some being more efficeint than others
02:48:44 <MarkFan8901> but theres no obvious way to go from one to the other
02:49:15 <MarkFan8901> thats what re-grouping is for, a way to just edit the tree of definitions really easily
02:50:31 <MarkFan8901> we might be too focused on trying to implement intelligent behavior
02:50:57 <de67> yea, you should make dumb esolangs and then look for intelligence after the fact
02:51:11 <de67> thats what i did with 67 machine
02:51:26 <de67> it has somewhat nontrivial behaviour
02:52:00 <de67> ive also found an oscillator in it
02:52:07 <de67> and made a looping counter
02:52:32 <MarkFan8901> what happens if there arent enough commands to jump
02:52:37 <de67> iirc 676 is the only chaotic program i could find
02:52:44 <de67> MarkFan8901: it wraps around
02:55:21 <de67> 67 machine is kinda dumb, i made it during the X-complete wave, i initially wanted to make 67-complete, but then i kinda realized that it would be just an another stupid joke that would contribute nothing, so i made a stupud esolang instead that contributed nothing
02:55:36 <de67> MarkFan8901: congratulations, you found an oscillator
02:55:54 <MarkFan8901> any sequences of 6 seem to be an oscillator
02:56:56 <MarkFan8901> maybe its just sequences of 6n where n > 6
02:57:19 <MarkFan8901> we notice that the code doesnt have any handling for other characters
02:57:26 <MarkFan8901> like theyre not errors and theyre not pruned
02:58:13 <MarkFan8901> we'll make it so that they just get re-appended to the end of the program
02:58:25 <MarkFan8901> wait that wouldnt really do anything though
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03:01:51 <MarkFan8901> if a non-67 character was the subject of a 6's flip, itd do nothing
03:09:10 <MarkFan8901> https://bpa.st/G5BA here's our modified source
03:10:50 <de67> whats the difference
03:13:05 <de67> it moves itself to the end
03:13:53 <de67> thats cool actually
03:14:45 <MarkFan8901> perhaps its enough for arbitrary actions at arbitrary points
03:15:46 <de67> its really just a system that produces chaos
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03:32:20 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * PeRsOn * New user account
03:39:15 <de67> 1 d1dn7 u53 3n0ugh 13375p34k
03:40:01 <de67> 1 m34n7 "4n07h32 n008"
03:46:42 <MarkFan8901> (translated: "u didnt use enough leetspeak" "git gud" "git on our level"
03:47:47 <MarkFan8901> they work not by a list of commands but by initializing memory
03:48:05 <MarkFan8901> then one thing is done to the memory over and over to achieve computation
03:48:48 <MarkFan8901> it would work by giving the tm a certain starting memory
03:49:28 <MarkFan8901> the problem with that is thats also exactly how you would provide it the source code for any other kind of language
03:49:55 <MarkFan8901> if you think about it, really the only difference is in how we're thinking about it
03:50:26 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197582&oldid=197529 * PeRsOn * (+218) I added myself.
03:51:09 <MarkFan8901> in typical languages, memory would just so happen to be serialized into distinct sections and treated as commands
03:51:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197583&oldid=197582 * PeRsOn * (+85) I forgot to add my page.
03:52:10 <de67> thats why homoiconic oiscs can be though of as really complicated ziscs
03:52:12 <esolangs> [[User:PeRsOn]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197584 * PeRsOn * (+69) I put a bit about myself.
03:52:22 <esolangs> [[C!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197585 * PeRsOn * (+1041) C! is a turning complete programming language that is made to simplify C++.
03:52:34 <aadenboy> %%Gokgq Gaokr _Gokgq Gaokr Gowks _GRokw aoigu ockt owks ockg aoigu ockrf _? _nkwf owks _nkwf Gocg _mcusi ocuier ocwkVN owksf%%
03:52:48 <de67> i saw you join rsolang forum
03:53:04 <de67> whats that gibnerish
03:53:15 <MarkFan8901> theres no fundamental difference between a tm being initialized with memory for a zisc and being initialized with a program for interpretation
03:53:39 <aadenboy> the gibberish is english, just not latin
03:53:48 <esolangs> [[C!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197586&oldid=197585 * Dragoneater67 * (-69) fix username
03:54:01 <MarkFan8901> the gibberish is what happens when you subtract the concept of latin from the concpet of english, then speak it
03:54:57 <de67> anglish is unfrenchified english
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03:55:11 <aadenboy> isn't anglish no loan word at all english
03:55:22 <aadenboy> does. english borrow frmo latin
03:55:28 <de67> a lot of loan words are frrncnc htohig
03:55:35 <de67> i had a fuckonf srtoke
03:55:41 <de67> fucking mobole keybaord
03:55:51 <de67> i.spelt one word cotrrctc
03:56:01 <aadenboy> I should probably mention Paste my gibberish into https://miscellaniumiscellanium.tumblr.com/- to see how it is meant to look
03:56:07 <aadenboy> the textual representation does Not give it justice.
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03:56:34 <de67> im gonna fix [[C!]]
03:56:44 <MarkFan8901> aadenboy: how the hell did you do this in tumblr
03:57:00 <aadenboy> tumblr blog themes allow straight up html
03:58:12 <inhahe> can't figure out how to use the page though
03:59:00 <aadenboy> text put into the textbox is parsed, in particular use a pair of %% strings to render the font, e.g %%bwkr%%
03:59:41 <MarkFan8901> if you interpreted a zisc as actually a programming language where the tape corresponds to commands of some sort
03:59:57 <MarkFan8901> the semantics themselves would be self-modifying
04:00:02 <zzo38> Even if English is Germanic language still is Indo-European languages and some very older words are from Latin and other languages, even before the French, I think. But, you can still be English without a lot of French and other words and mostly only English words, although some are no longer common now
04:01:13 <MarkFan8901> MarkFan8901: or, the commands would exist on some level higher than direct correspondence
04:01:53 <MarkFan8901> what we're thinking of is that the memory would be some form of compression over a clean starting set of commands
04:02:20 <MarkFan8901> what we're thinking of is that the memory would be a compressed version of some program written with explicit commands
04:04:01 <MarkFan8901> maybe finding those commands would be uncomputable
04:04:22 <MarkFan8901> either the commands or the compression algorithm
04:04:43 <MarkFan8901> because they rely on a turing complete system
04:04:47 <esolangs> [[C!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197587&oldid=197586 * Dragoneater67 * (+205) firmatting pt.1 (this was exahusting)
04:05:00 <esolangs> [[C!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197588&oldid=197587 * Dragoneater67 * (+0) /* Without hitespace */ typo
04:05:47 <MarkFan8901> OH maybe thats what finding the properties of a given program is
04:06:21 <de67> there should be a way to tag pages as needing cleanup
04:06:33 <MarkFan8901> where like, compressing/decompressing is property finding
04:07:23 <aadenboy> de67: do you use the search and replace function? it is helpful when cleaning up pages like that
04:07:29 <MarkFan8901> and the reason why chaotic sequences are so hard to study is because finding properties in them is just that
04:07:55 <MarkFan8901> in other words, the functions which find the properties of chaotic sequences are literally uncomputable
04:11:34 <esolangs> [[C!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197589&oldid=197588 * Dragoneater67 * (+269) /* Overview */ use <code> tags
04:12:04 <esolangs> [[Talk:C!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197590 * Dragoneater67 * (+198) Created page with "the language seems to be underspecified --~~~~"
04:12:34 <zzo38> Since the classical sequent calculus has a symmetry on both sides, it means that continuations can also make functions symmetric in that way.
04:13:33 <de67> i love how thats an actual link
04:14:35 <zzo38> I mean sequent calculus with classical logic.
04:15:48 <esolangs> [[C!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197591&oldid=197589 * Dragoneater67 * (+128) /* Examples */ cat
04:15:50 <zzo38> See also, Curry-Howard
04:16:04 <esolangs> [[C!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197592&oldid=197591 * Dragoneater67 * (+0) /* Examples */
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04:16:19 <esolangs> [[C!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197593&oldid=197592 * Dragoneater67 * (+1) /* Overview */
04:18:41 <MarkFan8901> does the symmetry in question refer to the compression/decompression of memory into explicit commands
04:20:20 <de67> categorizing [[C!]] was so boring
04:22:09 <MarkFan8901> its literally c++ but with different notation
04:23:42 <de67> its a subset of c++ with weird syntax
04:24:20 <zzo38> No, I mean that by exchanging some of the symbols and then you can exchange left side with right side of the turnstile, that it can be made symmetric (except the \ sign that Wikipedia mentions, but I have also seen it without that)
04:25:45 <zzo38> (Wikipedia mentions this symmetry in the article about sequent calculus: "Observe that, if we ignore the non-standard connective \, all rules have mirror companions, except the ones for implication [unless you add a "not implied by" connective].")
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04:35:55 <MarkFan8901> (sry we were reading up on the page for sequent calculus)
04:40:52 <zzo38> It is unrelated as far as I know; it is something else that I had mentioned independently (maybe I should have mention such a thing)
04:43:05 <de67> MarkFan8901: i wasnt paying attention to anything
04:43:09 <de67> lemme reread the logs
04:44:20 <de67> ok i think i kinda got it
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05:14:11 <de67> a lot of turing tarpits are somehow related to misnky machines
05:14:57 <de67> itd be fun to have 2d brainfuck with vertical loops using - and _
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06:28:38 <esolangs> [[C!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197594&oldid=197593 * PeRsOn * (+1449) I added an example of a program.
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06:33:18 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197595&oldid=197502 * PeRsOn * (+9) Added C!
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06:40:37 <esolangs> [[C!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197596&oldid=197594 * PeRsOn * (+21) Fixed small issues.
06:41:42 <esolangs> [[User talk:PeRsOn]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197597 * PeRsOn * (+10) Created page with "uhh... hi?"
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06:42:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:PeRsOn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197598&oldid=197597 * Dragoneater67 * (+163)
06:43:48 <esolangs> [[C!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197599&oldid=197596 * PeRsOn * (+16)
06:44:29 <esolangs> [[Quaternions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197600&oldid=197581 * Blashyrkh * (+7) /* Octonions */ Add "real part" row and col to octonion multiplication table
06:48:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:Dragoneater67]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197601&oldid=195276 * PeRsOn * (+75)
06:49:10 <esolangs> [[User talk:Dragoneater67]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197602&oldid=197601 * PeRsOn * (+4)
06:50:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:Dragoneater67]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197603&oldid=197602 * Dragoneater67 * (-16) /* Reviews */ not how talknpages are used
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07:06:05 <esolangs> [[C!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197604&oldid=197599 * PeRsOn * (+157) Added column to table
07:09:49 <esolangs> [[User talk:Blashyrkh/Golf]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197605 * I am islptng * (+129) Created page with "Will you try Beer in [[Polynomix]]? ~~~~"
07:10:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:C!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197606&oldid=197590 * Blashyrkh * (+241) /* Turing-complete? */ new section
07:11:26 <esolangs> [[User talk:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197607&oldid=197605 * Cleverxia * (+126)
07:11:37 <esolangs> [[User talk:PeRsOn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197608&oldid=197598 * PeRsOn * (+21)
07:12:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197609&oldid=197607 * I am islptng * (+38)
07:12:14 <esolangs> [[User talk:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197610&oldid=197609 * Blashyrkh * (+140)
07:16:32 <esolangs> [[User talk:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197611&oldid=197610 * I am islptng * (+115)
07:25:09 <fungot> MarkFan8901: i think it'll be more than np-complete.)
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07:28:45 <MarkFan8901> wonder if theres a way to make trivial brainfuck subtitutions actually interesting
07:29:26 <MarkFan8901> one thought is to make it correspond to other brainfuck code
07:30:52 <esolangs> [[User talk:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197612&oldid=197611 * Blashyrkh * (+304)
07:33:54 <esolangs> [[C!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197613&oldid=197604 * PeRsOn * (+131) added commands M and J
07:37:48 <esolangs> [[C!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197614&oldid=197613 * PeRsOn * (+48) added turing completeness
07:40:36 <esolangs> [[Tetrahedron]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197615&oldid=178989 * Cleverxia * (+1189) remake the language
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07:43:19 <esolangs> [[Tetrahedron]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197616&oldid=197615 * Cleverxia * (-12) /* Commands */
07:44:15 <esolangs> [[C!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197617&oldid=197614 * Dragoneater67 * (-35) /* Slime fighting game */
07:44:25 <esolangs> [[Tetrahedron]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197618&oldid=197616 * Cleverxia * (-24) /* Commands */
07:45:39 <esolangs> [[User talk:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197619&oldid=197612 * I am islptng * (+138)
07:46:12 <esolangs> [[Tetrahedron]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197620&oldid=197618 * Cleverxia * (-301) /* Commands */
07:47:05 <esolangs> [[Tetrahedron]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197621&oldid=197620 * Cleverxia * (+12) /* Commands */
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07:50:33 <de67> esolangs: skibiddy toilet
07:50:36 <esolangs> de67: That's a fascinating, and frankly baffling, combination! It appears to be a deliberate, nonsensical string. Likely a random exchange or a playful joke within the IRC channel. There’s no inherent meaning or connection between “skibiddy” (a slang term for a clumsy or awkward person) and “toilet.” Perhaps just a random collision of words.
07:51:07 <de67> esolangs: skibidi toilet
07:51:12 <esolangs> de67: Skibidi Toilet is an esolang created by Mihai Popa, based on Gen Alpha slang. It utilizes Batch commands to print strings and variables. Key commands include "Toilet" for output, "Skibidi" for user input, and "Start Skibidi {x} {expression}" for looping. It’s essentially a simplified Batch interpreter with a unique naming scheme for commands.
07:51:46 <esolangs> [[Tetrahedron]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197622&oldid=197621 * Cleverxia * (+60) /* Truth machine (hopefully) */ notice that the program and data use shared space so semf modifying
07:52:08 <de67> esolangs: semf modifying
07:52:12 <esolangs> de67: Semf's "modifying" feature is essentially a sophisticated, iterative, and highly efficient way to perform complex data transformations. It works by repeatedly applying a function to a data structure, updating it in place with each iteration. This avoids creating numerous intermediate copies, making it remarkably fast and memory-friendly, especially...
07:52:12 <esolangs> for tasks like sorting or complex calculations involving mutable data. It’s a core element of Semf’s design.
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08:02:32 <esolangs> [[User talk:PeRsOn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197623&oldid=197608 * PeRsOn * (+46)
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08:11:32 <esolangs> [[User talk:Cleverxia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197624&oldid=189520 * Cleverxia * (+190)
08:12:56 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197625&oldid=192308 * PeRsOn * (+228) /* I do not exist. 0 other languages allow me to program. Please help me learn! */ new section
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08:21:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197626&oldid=197625 * Dragoneater67 * (+169) /* I do not exist. 0 other languages allow me to program. Please help me learn! */
08:24:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:Cleverxia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197627&oldid=197624 * Dragoneater67 * (+200) /* idea for languages to golf */
08:32:24 <esolangs> [[LoopScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197628&oldid=175353 * DockedChutoy * (+349)
08:36:07 <esolangs> [[Endfield]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197629&oldid=174157 * Dragoneater67 * (+147)
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08:57:02 <esolangs> [[User:DockedChutoy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197630&oldid=193900 * DockedChutoy * (+48)
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09:22:17 <de67> ive been thinking of an esolang where the program is a list of programs with their inputs and outputs
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09:23:34 <de67> and the interpreter takes it and creates a language where all of these programs, when given its respective input, produces its respective output
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09:28:33 <esolangs> [[Entitia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197631&oldid=197552 * Cordership * (-14)
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09:30:10 <esolangs> [[Stackfest]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197632&oldid=194228 * Cordership * (+54) /* The additional operations */
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09:40:56 <esolangs> [[Jormungandr]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197633&oldid=196941 * Typhe681 * (-35) shorter quine
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11:41:36 <esolangs> [[Bitch, Ienai!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197634&oldid=197560 * Cordership * (+63) /* Solutions */
12:01:01 <esolangs> [[ABG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197635&oldid=108610 * Marcus 2n2 * (+43)
12:01:27 <esolangs> [[ABG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197636&oldid=197635 * Marcus 2n2 * (+35) /* Commands */
12:03:20 <esolangs> [[ABG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197637&oldid=197636 * Marcus 2n2 * (-34) /* Commands */
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12:19:50 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197638&oldid=197534 * Cordership * (+9) /* CT interpreter */
12:20:14 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197639&oldid=197638 * Cordership * (-3) /* CT interpreter */
12:20:31 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197640&oldid=197639 * Cordership * (+11) /* Syntax */
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12:26:34 <esolangs> [[Cryn]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197641 * Vextoly * (+7628) Added Cryn
12:27:00 <esolangs> [[14]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197642&oldid=197569 * Marcus 2n2 * (-34) /* Examples */
12:27:45 <esolangs> [[Entitia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197643&oldid=197631 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+9) seems very ambiguous / stubby. feel free to fix and then remove. also, prolly easier to understand if its in a format thhats more table like.
12:27:49 <esolangs> [[Cryn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197644&oldid=197641 * Vextoly * (-780) /* Why Cryn is esoteric */
12:30:13 <esolangs> [[Cryn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197645&oldid=197644 * Vextoly * (-79)
12:39:28 <esolangs> [[Cryn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197646&oldid=197645 * Dragoneater67 * (+29) /* External resources */ im pretty sure the page was written by an llm
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12:46:48 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cryn]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197647 * Blashyrkh * (+166) inaccessible external references
12:56:50 <esolangs> [[Cryn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197648&oldid=197646 * Vextoly * (+17)
13:05:28 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197649&oldid=195466 * None1 * (+101)
13:05:48 <esolangs> [[Runez]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197650&oldid=197453 * IMakeTerribleEsolangDecisions * (+10)
13:11:21 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197651&oldid=197649 * None1 * (+219)
13:15:33 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197652&oldid=197640 * Cordership * (+145) /* Syntax */
13:15:59 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197653&oldid=197652 * Cordership * (-94) /* Syntax */
13:21:02 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197654&oldid=197653 * Cordership * (-279) /* Examples */
13:29:25 <esolangs> [[Cat program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197655&oldid=196805 * Cordership * (+7148)
13:30:44 <esolangs> [[StackBit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197656&oldid=197412 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-10)
13:30:52 <esolangs> [[Cat program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197657&oldid=197655 * Cordership * (+457)
13:31:49 <esolangs> [[Cat program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197658&oldid=197657 * Cordership * (+61) /* Regards, */
13:35:05 <aadenboy> de67: reminds me of [[a=ab=bc=cd=d!]]
13:35:27 <esolangs> [[Cat program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197659&oldid=197658 * Cordership * (+132)
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13:39:29 <esolangs> [[Cat program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197660&oldid=197659 * Cordership * (+205) /* Fish Code */
13:39:52 <esolangs> [[Cat program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197661&oldid=197660 * Cordership * (+46) /* Regards, */
13:40:48 <esolangs> [[Cat program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197662&oldid=197661 * Cordership * (+116) /* Deadfish+ */
13:41:52 <esolangs> [[Cat program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197663&oldid=197662 * Cordership * (+56) /* Simpl */
13:42:55 <esolangs> [[Cat program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197664&oldid=197663 * Cordership * (+43) /* Truths-machine */
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13:48:20 <esolangs> [[Cat program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197665&oldid=197664 * Cordership * (+733) /* brainfuck */
13:48:36 <esolangs> [[Cat program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197666&oldid=197665 * Cordership * (-31) /* C */
13:50:13 <esolangs> [[One Time Cat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197667&oldid=194688 * Cordership * (+28) /* Python 3 */
13:50:30 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197668&oldid=197651 * None1 * (+576)
13:51:23 <esolangs> [[Deadbird]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197669&oldid=177077 * Cordership * (+89) /* Additions */
13:51:49 <esolangs> [[Deadbird]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197670&oldid=197669 * Cordership * (-90)
13:52:55 <esolangs> [[Avoid]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197671 * Jack6254 * (+1794) Created page with "'''Avoid''' is an esoteric language created by User:Jack6254 on October 7th, 2026. It is based on the study of combinatorics on words. The subject originated with foundational work published by Axel Thue on square-free words, infinite words, and repetitions in the early
13:53:21 <de67> glad to know that this day wasnt totally uneventful
13:54:52 <esolangs> [[Avoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197672&oldid=197671 * Dragoneater67 * (+16) /* Turing Complete? */ every language must be in [[Category:Languages]]
13:55:22 <esolangs> [[Avoid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197673&oldid=197672 * Jack6254 * (-9) Grammar correction.
13:59:43 <esolangs> [[Avoid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197674&oldid=197673 * Jack6254 * (-4) Fixed spelling
14:00:37 <esolangs> [[Avoid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197675&oldid=197674 * Jack6254 * (-25) Removed unnecessary sentence
14:02:36 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Czar Pedro * New user account
14:02:54 <de67> the turing completeness proof for [[Ednfield]] is quite boring
14:02:57 <esolangs> [[Avoid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197676&oldid=197675 * Jack6254 * (-51) Removed unnecessary categories
14:04:22 <de67> i think that itd be fun to try to prove that some sort of restricted version of endfield is turing complete
14:04:56 <esolangs> [[Avoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197677&oldid=197676 * Jack6254 * (+9)
14:06:28 <PkmnQ> de67: do i hear esoteric subset
14:07:10 <de67> basically, [[Endfield]] is bf with unbounded cells, and the - command is useless
14:07:33 <de67> it just decrements a random non-0 sell by 3
14:08:22 <de67> but [[Brainfuck minus -]] proves that a subset of brainfuck with unbounded cells and no way to decrement is still turing complete
14:08:34 <de67> which makes [[Endfield]] boring
14:09:24 <PkmnQ> unfortunately I think any turing-complete subset would have to contain ><+[] which is already Turing-complete on its own
14:09:37 <PkmnQ> + is necessary since otherwise you can't store anything
14:09:43 <PkmnQ> [ and ] are necessary for looping
14:10:36 <de67> but there are other ways to restrict the language
14:10:40 <de67> without removing commands
14:10:42 <PkmnQ> without one of > or < you can only store one counter's worth of data, and if you only have one of them, there's technically a chance - never decrements any of the cells you can't reach again
14:11:01 <PkmnQ> but if, say, - was made less random, i think you could remove the other one of > or <
14:11:04 <de67> for example, [[Brainfuck minus -]] is still turing complete with max loop depth 2
14:20:35 <PkmnQ> eh I think you have to make Endfield's - not fully random to make it interesting (or at least I don't think it would be interesting if it was fully random) but some similar stuff in the style of "decrement a cell that has nothing to do with where the current pointer is" would be interesting
14:21:33 <esolangs> [[Avoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197678&oldid=197677 * Jack6254 * (+173) Added long-halting time
14:24:33 <esolangs> [[Avoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197679&oldid=197678 * PkmnQ * (+28) a few links for good measure
14:35:44 <de67> ive also been thinking about [[str]]
14:35:52 <de67> though i doubt that its turing complete
14:36:06 <de67> since the only way to read data is destructive
14:36:15 <de67> (not a promising trait obviously)
14:52:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Exe-cutie * New user account
15:00:16 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197680&oldid=197566 * Blashyrkh * (+191) /* 14 */ [[A+B]] @ [[14]] - 101 bytes
15:01:45 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197681&oldid=197567 * Blashyrkh * (+48) [[A+B]] @ [[14]] - 101 bytes
15:03:18 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197682&oldid=197595 * Vextoly * (+11) Added Cryn
15:07:41 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197683&oldid=197680 * Blashyrkh * (+424) [[Looping counter]] @ [[BLC]] (148 bits)
15:08:03 <esolangs> [[One Time Cat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197684&oldid=197667 * Aadenboy * (+34) /* Lua */ golf in [[Lua]]
15:09:10 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197685&oldid=197681 * Blashyrkh * (+52) [[Looping counter]] @ [[BLC]] (148 bits)
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15:18:02 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197686&oldid=197683 * Blashyrkh * (+137) /* 14 */ Shorter [[A+B]] @ [[14]] (101 > 88)
15:19:14 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197687&oldid=197685 * Blashyrkh * (+20) Shorter [[A+B]] @ [[14]] (101 > 88)
15:21:06 <PkmnQ> that BLC looping counter looks beatable but i'm not adding a BLC row to my table because i don't want to make special bit-exceptions for each of the program forms
15:22:09 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197688&oldid=197686 * Blashyrkh * (+258) /* BLC */ Shorter [[Looping counter]] @ [[BLC]] (148 > 140)
15:22:58 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197689&oldid=197687 * Blashyrkh * (+20) Shorter [[Looping counter]] @ [[BLC]] (148 > 140)
15:30:55 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197690&oldid=197688 * Blashyrkh * (+554) [[Immutable Brainfuck]] golfed code, including new [[Looping counter]] (62 bytes)
15:33:26 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197691&oldid=197689 * Blashyrkh * (+23) [[Looping counter]] @ [[Immutable Brainfuck]] (62 bytes)
15:38:05 <de67> i just realized that any proper control flow in [[GolferNightmare]] requires bit buckets
15:40:54 <de67> the reason is that if the first / doesnt skip, then you need to make sure that the second / wont skip too, or else the program wont do what you expect it to do
15:41:21 <de67> the most obvious way to do that is to make the second / check a useless cell
15:41:27 <de67> which would basically be a bit bucket
16:13:45 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197692&oldid=197690 * Blashyrkh * (+169) /* 14 - Primes */ Shorter Primes @ [[14]] (121 > 120)
16:14:42 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197693&oldid=197691 * Blashyrkh * (+21) Shorter Primes @ [[14]] (121 > 120)
16:15:26 <esolangs> [[14]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197694&oldid=197642 * Blashyrkh * (-1) /* Prime number generator */ 1 byte shorter
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16:19:56 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197695&oldid=197692 * Blashyrkh * (+217) /* 14 */ Shorter [[Looping counter]] @ [[14]] (33 > 32)
16:21:14 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197696&oldid=197693 * Blashyrkh * (+37) Shorter [[Looping counter]] @ [[14]] (33 > 32)
16:22:04 <esolangs> [[14]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197697&oldid=197694 * Blashyrkh * (-1) /* Looping counter */ 1 byte shorter
16:25:13 <esolangs> [[User:PeRsOn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197698&oldid=197584 * PeRsOn * (+64) signed my name
16:35:36 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197699&oldid=197695 * Blashyrkh * (+1981) /* 14 */ Shorter [[Quine]] @ [[14]] (1737 > 1713)
16:37:59 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197700&oldid=197696 * Blashyrkh * (+47) Shorter [[Quine]] @ [[14]] (1737 > 1713)
16:40:09 <esolangs> [[14]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197701&oldid=197697 * Blashyrkh * (-24) /* Quine */ Shorter QUINE (1737 > 1713)
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16:54:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:Avoid]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197702 * Jack6254 * (+184) Created page with "If anyone has any lower/upper bounds as to maximum halting times for certain lists B, let me know! ~~~~"
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17:02:48 <iamgroot9> yayimhere22 you working on any esolangs
17:03:35 <esolangs> [[Avoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197703&oldid=197679 * Aadenboy * (+0) /* Turing Complete? */ Turing Complete Turing-complete
17:04:41 <Yayimhere22> iamgroot9: solving for a language , like you solve for a variable X
17:05:00 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/randomuserpage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197704&oldid=196330 * Aadenboy * (+29) Yayimhere22: if only I did... :P
17:05:12 <iamgroot9> it's because there are like 2 million aadenboys but 1 million of them got killed in the great aadenboy massacre of oct 2026
17:07:20 <PkmnQ> oh that's Jack6254's esolang not aadenboy's
17:08:23 <PkmnQ> my main question is who's this "Aristotle" because i don't think it's the greek philosopher in this case
17:08:26 <PkmnQ> considering this language was created literally yesterday
17:08:38 <PkmnQ> and the greek philosopher over 2000 years ago
17:08:44 <iamgroot9> hey what if someone made an esolang that's just python but all the characters have to be ASCII art?
17:09:05 <iamgroot9> and it'd be silly af to program in
17:09:41 <PkmnQ> a 2d language would be more fitting for that if anything in my opinion
17:11:20 <iamgroot9> but I think it'd still be funny for python
17:12:32 <esolangs> [[Avoid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197705&oldid=197703 * PkmnQ * (-9) /* Definition */ I think append is clearer?
17:16:06 <esolangs> [[Avoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197706&oldid=197705 * Jack6254 * (-14) Changed concatenate to append for clarity!
17:18:04 <iamgroot9> hey PkmnQ do you want to make a "reference-bot" as an irc bot that gives references with the right keywords?
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17:45:21 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197707&oldid=197699 * Blashyrkh * (+249) /* Looping counter */ Shorter [[Looping counter]] @ [[BLC]] (140 > 97)
17:46:38 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197708&oldid=197700 * Blashyrkh * (+19) Shorter [[Looping counter]] @ [[BLC]] (140 > 97)
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18:25:07 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197709&oldid=197707 * Blashyrkh * (+478) [[Looping counter]] @ [[BLC#BLC8 | BLC8]] (45 bytes)
18:28:26 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197710&oldid=197708 * Blashyrkh * (+124) [[Looping counter]] @ [[BLC#BLC8 | BLC8]] (45 bytes, beaten by PkmnQ)
18:32:13 <b_jonas> how many fixed-size integer arithmetic operations are there where some of the arguments or results are signed and others are unsigned? like, I think subtracting two unsigned integers and saturating the result to a signed integer of the same size is used somewhere. less-than comparing a signed integer with an unsigned integer is definitely useful, and there are now functions for it in the C++ standard
18:32:19 <b_jonas> library. are there any other useful combination for saturating add/subtract? does anyone multiply a signed integer with an unsigned integer and gets the high word of the result as a signed integer? or take the minimum of a signed integer and an unsigned integer as a signed integer result? anything else? (I don't count the signedness of a shift count.)
18:46:59 <esolangs> [[User:Vextoly]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197711 * Vextoly * (+2) Created page with "yo"
18:47:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:PkmnQ/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197712&oldid=197451 * Blashyrkh * (+251) /* You call 15-bytes BLC8 "Hello, world" trivial? */ new section
18:56:44 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197713&oldid=197709 * Blashyrkh * (+193) /* BLC8 - Looping counter */ Explain the code
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19:21:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:PkmnQ/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197714&oldid=197712 * Blashyrkh * (+317) /* You call 15-bytes BLC8 "Hello, world" trivial? */
19:22:07 <fizzie> TI TMS320C64x DSP has instructions for the mixed-sign integer multiplications, so presumably some people must have found them useful.
19:22:12 <fizzie> E.g. MPYSU multiplies a signed 16-bit integer by an unsigned 16-bit integer to produce a signed 32-bit result.
19:22:56 <esolangs> [[Cryn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197715&oldid=197648 * Vextoly * (+56) /* External resources */
19:26:26 <fizzie> It often processes audio, and audio samples are often signed 16-bit values, and I guess that way you can scale them with one more bit of precision in the scaler than you would get from an s16 x s16 -> s32 multiplication.
19:41:55 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197716&oldid=197710 * Blashyrkh * (+43) Add [[Recall]] to the table
19:45:05 <esolangs> [[Talk:JUMP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197717 * PeRsOn * (+60) Created page with "This seems a lot like a turing machine with different steps."
19:54:07 <esolangs> [[Talk:JUMP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197718&oldid=197717 * Blashyrkh * (+211) no, it's not a Turing machine
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19:57:47 <esolangs> [[C!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197719&oldid=197617 * PeRsOn * (+67) added L command
20:26:46 <esolangs> [[Countable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197720&oldid=188422 * Aadenboy * (+61) resolve potential ambiguity
20:28:05 <esolangs> [[Lucky 9]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197721 * Vextoly * (+2105) Add Lucky 9
20:28:37 <esolangs> [[Lucky 9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197722&oldid=197721 * Vextoly * (+4)
20:29:56 <esolangs> [[Lucky 9]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197723&oldid=197722 * Vextoly * (+10)
20:30:46 <esolangs> [[Lucky 9]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197724&oldid=197723 * Vextoly * (-144)
20:53:27 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197725&oldid=197568 * Hotcrystal0 * (+303) /* P9+ */
20:56:03 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197726&oldid=197713 * Blashyrkh * (+184) /* Brainfuck */ [[Looping counter]] @ [[Brainfuck]] (54 bytes)
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20:59:45 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197727&oldid=197716 * Blashyrkh * (+121) [[Looping counter]] @ [[Brainfuck]] (54 bytes, beaten by PkmnQ)
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21:09:31 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197728&oldid=197725 * Hotcrystal0 * (+245) /* P2-8 */
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22:21:32 <fungot> ChimeraAnova: why on earth? beats all the species.
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22:28:03 <esolangs> [[Trmaxion]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197729&oldid=195381 * Miui * (+0) /* Computational class */ corrected typo
22:33:35 -!- izabera has changed nick to bellanox.
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22:46:09 <esolangs> [[Talk:C!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197730&oldid=197606 * PeRsOn * (+287) /* Implementation request */ new section
22:47:02 <esolangs> [[Talk:C!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197731&oldid=197730 * PeRsOn * (+73) /* Turing-complete? */
22:48:18 <esolangs> [[C!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197732&oldid=197719 * PeRsOn * (+23) /* Slime fighting game */ added inspiration
22:58:13 <esolangs> [[Joe]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=197733 * PeRsOn * (+828) Created page with "=JOE= Joe is the only Joe-complete program because it emulates a Joe program. Joe is strictly input - output, and runs the input as a Joe program, modifies the response, and outputs it. The deepest Joe program inside is called the Joe machine, it takes the input and gives i
23:00:18 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197734&oldid=196191 * PeRsOn * (+91) Added Joe
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23:48:00 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197735&oldid=196462 * PeRsOn * (+42)
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23:55:21 <esolangs> [[Minecraft commands]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=197736&oldid=192667 * PeRsOn * (+419)