00:23:35 <esolangs> [[User:Assembly/userpage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199150&oldid=198854 * Assembly * (+107)
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00:46:40 <esolangs> [[ADDJZ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199151&oldid=199079 * VP3NEG * (-1178) Blanked the page
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01:02:36 <esolangs> [[User:MarkFan8901/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199152&oldid=199009 * MarkFan8901 * (+230)
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01:06:47 <esolangs> [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199153&oldid=199060 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+3762)
01:07:12 <MarkFan8901> ais523: perhaps a way to achieve unstructured programming via the smoc befunge lineage is by removing the stack and instead having the code store values?
01:07:26 <MarkFan8901> then commands can correspond to basic numbers instead of their ascii values
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01:08:25 <MarkFan8901> perhaps you could define some useful stuff by making the command a number corresponds to loop after a while, but be different per loop
01:08:47 <MarkFan8901> say you had 10 commands, and < (make cursor move left) was 1
01:09:02 <MarkFan8901> and 10 was the last command before looping back to <
01:09:14 <MarkFan8901> what if 11 was < (make cursor move left twice as fast)
01:09:22 <MarkFan8901> and 21 was < (make cursor move left three times as fast)
01:10:08 <MarkFan8901> what if you make a language which has a few INCREDIBLY basic commands
01:10:31 <MarkFan8901> like to the point where it would take tens or hundreds of them to make anything useful
01:11:10 <MarkFan8901> but then made it so that, if two commands appear in sequence, theyre given a unique label
01:11:29 <MarkFan8901> and you can only refer to those two commands in sequence by that label from then on
01:12:15 <MarkFan8901> if your program started with $#, then that would become the command 1
01:12:39 <MarkFan8901> and the rest of the program can no longer have $# show up in it or else its syntactically invalid
01:12:47 <MarkFan8901> if you wanna do that you gotta write a 1 instead
01:22:24 <MarkFan8901> what if instead of an unstructured language, you made a *mal*structured language
01:23:05 <MarkFan8901> one which was structured to actively work against the typical goals of structuring
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01:28:06 <MarkFan8901> MarkFan8901: to make the byte-pair encoding language more unique than just a standard low-command language with an extra rule on top of it, you could also design them to benefit from being repeated in sequence
01:28:30 <MarkFan8901> it would be really funny if it were more useful to repeat commands in triplets rather than doubles
01:44:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hppavilion1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199154&oldid=77973 * Bobby Jacobs * (+292)
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01:57:34 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199155&oldid=199110 * None1 * (+351) /* Category Proposal: Category:Sub-Turing Complete */
01:59:49 <esolangs> [[The Church]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199156&oldid=199036 * MarkFan8901 * (-207)
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02:00:39 <esolangs> [[The Church]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199157&oldid=199156 * MarkFan8901 * (+48)
02:04:46 <esolangs> [[The Church]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199158&oldid=199157 * MarkFan8901 * (+4)
02:05:18 <MarkFan8901> wonder if it's possible to make a language with less power than an fsa
02:06:17 <PkmnQ> MarkFan8901: combinational logic?
02:06:32 <MarkFan8901> wait ya no we meant less powerful than combinational logic
02:07:00 <PkmnQ> MarkFan8901: surely constant languages
02:07:35 <MarkFan8901> are there any languages whose power is strictly between that of constant languages and that of combinational languages
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02:30:46 <aadenboy> CometIIWW: make each operation flip a coin to decide :)
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02:50:47 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199159&oldid=198953 * None1 * (+356)
02:51:44 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199160&oldid=199159 * None1 * (+93) /* Operators */
02:52:12 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199161&oldid=199160 * None1 * (-7) /* Operators */
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03:09:04 <PkmnQ> MarkFan8901: what if Text
03:26:26 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199162&oldid=199161 * None1 * (+293) /* Computational class */
03:26:49 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199163&oldid=199162 * None1 * (-1287)
03:27:20 <esolangs> [[F(x)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199164 * None1 * (+1383) Created page with "'''f(x)''' is an esolang invented by [[User:None1]] that uses polynomials. ==Data storage== The only data storage is a polynomial named ''f''. It can only use one variable named ''x''. ==Commands== Assignment command: f=<expression> Printing command: print(<expression>) Th
03:27:30 <esolangs> [[F(x)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199165&oldid=199164 * None1 * (+0) /* Computational class */
03:28:25 <esolangs> [[F(x)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199166&oldid=199165 * None1 * (+13)
03:29:43 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199167&oldid=198643 * None1 * (+48) /* My Esolangs */
03:36:41 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199168&oldid=198995 * None1 * (+11) /* F */
03:41:51 <esolangs> [[!!Fuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199169&oldid=184505 * None1 * (+905) /* Quine */ Tested, it's correct
03:46:17 <esolangs> [[Minecraft redstone]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199170&oldid=193533 * PkmnQ * (+0) /* See also */
04:13:17 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199171&oldid=198743 * PkmnQ * (-52) replace Thue-Morse with Primes, add two languages
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04:59:57 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199172&oldid=199029 * PkmnQ * (+413)
04:59:59 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199173&oldid=199171 * PkmnQ * (+329)
05:00:56 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199174&oldid=199172 * PkmnQ * (-68) /* Brain-Flak */
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05:04:05 <esolangs> [[Brain-Flak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199175&oldid=198026 * None1 * (+8) /* Add two numbers */
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05:35:19 <esolangs> [[User:Win7HE/w7hWidget]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199176&oldid=199100 * Win7HE * (+44)
05:48:41 <esolangs> [[Wunlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199177&oldid=198375 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+29)
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06:00:10 <b_jonas> oh, speaking of quote 1337, is it a weird belief if I think that ldd, which lists dynamic dependencies of ELF executables by using support in the dynamic linker, is an ancient compatibility feature that people should stop using, and they should start using objdump -pf instead which doesn't depend on the dynamic linker or even require being able to run the executable on the current architecture?
06:04:11 <zzo38> It might depend on what your exact requirements are, although not needing to be able to run the executable on the current architecture seem like would also be helpful for security (although if there are any security issues, then they can probably be mitigated)
06:12:58 <esolangs> [[The Church]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199178&oldid=199158 * Blashyrkh * (+27) its' -> its, a word about quines
06:20:48 <esolangs> [[The Church]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199179&oldid=199178 * PkmnQ * (+0) /* Translation to and from Lazy K */
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06:44:25 <esolangs> [[User:Win7HE/sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199180&oldid=199106 * Win7HE * (-16)
06:49:51 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Golf]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199181&oldid=199173 * Blashyrkh * (+26) Fix misleading link
07:51:29 <esolangs> [[Talk:Rust]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199182 * Dragoneater67 * (+240) Created page with "the page is very biased and written in a promotional way, it should be rewritten --~~~~"
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08:28:01 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Crepeguy * New user account
08:36:23 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199183&oldid=199118 * Crepeguy * (+252) /* Introductions */
08:39:50 <esolangs> [[The Church]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199184&oldid=199179 * Blashyrkh * (-16) /* Looping counter */ Shorter version (113 > 97). Used the same trick Cleverxia used in his Truth-machine ( x1(x1y) -> x2y )
08:41:02 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199185&oldid=198890 * Blashyrkh * (+20) Shorter [[Looping counter]] @ [[The Church]] (113 > 97)
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08:54:57 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199186&oldid=199174 * PkmnQ * (+413) A bit of 1+
08:54:59 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199187&oldid=199181 * PkmnQ * (+139) A bit of 1+
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09:03:43 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199188&oldid=199187 * PkmnQ * (+89) Ah why not, add [[23]]
09:05:03 <de67> everyhtings fine
09:05:08 <de67> atleast for now
09:08:21 <esolangs> [[User:Dragoneater67]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199189&oldid=198969 * Dragoneater67 * (+9) /* awesome collabs */
09:19:20 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199190&oldid=199185 * Blashyrkh * (+21) Shorter [[Hello, world!]] @ [[The Church]] (139 > 133)
09:20:47 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199191&oldid=199168 * Obuqwe * (+12)
09:21:41 <esolangs> [[The Church]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199192&oldid=199184 * Blashyrkh * (-6) /* Hello, world! */ Shorter version (139 > 133). Reworked the "main loop". Curiously enough: previous version had internals combined from several brute-forced combinators (C, B1, F). This version was made by hand, and it happened to be shorter
10:01:02 <esolangs> [[Rust]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199193&oldid=199145 * Jeff * (-1228)
10:02:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:Rust]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199194&oldid=199182 * Jeff * (+171)
10:04:05 <esolangs> [[Talk:Rust]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199195&oldid=199194 * Jeff * (+46)
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10:04:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Rust]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199196&oldid=199195 * Jeff * (+1)
10:04:53 <esolangs> [[Rust]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199197&oldid=199193 * Jeff * (-22)
10:10:13 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199198&oldid=199186 * PkmnQ * (+189) /* 23 */
10:10:16 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199199&oldid=199188 * PkmnQ * (+311) A pair of 23 programs
10:15:39 <esolangs> [[Rust]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199200&oldid=199197 * Jeff * (+96) Add categories
10:22:42 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199201&oldid=199119 * Jeff * (-2) Let byte type be inferred
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10:25:05 <esolangs> [[Talk:Rust]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199202&oldid=199196 * Dragoneater67 * (+463)
10:27:17 <esolangs> [[Rust]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199203&oldid=199200 * Dragoneater67 * (+191)
10:31:07 <esolangs> [[Talk:99 bottles of beer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199204&oldid=199117 * Dragoneater67 * (+430) /* Adding my implementation */
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10:51:42 <esolangs> [[Oracle machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199205&oldid=156041 * Hakerh400 * (-60) /* Halting oracles */ It only solves the PDA halting problem rather than its own halting problem because the article says that parentheses cannot be nested nor can they contain the star instruction.
11:08:35 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199206&oldid=199167 * None1 * (+10)
11:24:43 <esolangs> [[Talk:99 bottles of beer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199207&oldid=199204 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+348) /* Adding my implementation */
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11:41:04 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/Gewitschensprache]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199208 * PrySigneToFry * (+12426) Created page with ":''This programming language has no direct relations with [[StormLang]].'' Gewitschensprache is designed by PSTF. It's mostly inspired by C, Pascal, [[FlamePL]], APL, and a draft given by DeepSeek. It's designed to have as m
11:43:13 <esolangs> [[NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199209&oldid=199131 * PrySigneToFry * (+14)
12:07:57 <esolangs> [[The Church]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199210&oldid=199192 * Blashyrkh * (+17) /* The algorithm */ Grammar fixes (I hope)
12:16:31 <esolangs> [[Talk:NAND Machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199211 * PkmnQ * (+151) Created page with "How does memory work so that it's unbounded? It's very vague currently. ~~~~"
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12:31:53 <esolangs> [[NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199212&oldid=199209 * Blashyrkh * (+10) mark as a stub
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12:59:33 <esolangs> [[Talk:Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the FitnessGram Pacer Test]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199213&oldid=198921 * Ais523 * (+273) edit the command into a description of it rather than posting the text literally
13:02:58 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the FitnessGram Pacer Test]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199214&oldid=176605 * Hotcrystal0 * (-468) This
13:04:00 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the FitnessGram Pacer Test]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199215&oldid=199214 * Hotcrystal0 * (+17)
13:04:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199216&oldid=198990 * Ais523 * (+328) /* Anonymization */ just confirming that you understand what you're asking for
13:08:27 <esolangs> [[The Church]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199217&oldid=199210 * Blashyrkh * (-48) /* Quine */ Shorter version (1345 > 1333)
13:08:31 * ais523 vaguely wonders how the six seven meme is getting on at the moment
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13:09:24 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199218&oldid=199190 * Blashyrkh * (+22) Shorter [[Quine]] @ [[The Church]] (1345 > 1333)
13:10:08 <de67> ais523: btw, ive implemented the page deletion thing in esolanging wiki, heres how it looks like: https://esolanging.wiki/wiki/Esolanging:Pages_for_deletion
13:10:19 <CometIIWW> I think 67 has died out in my classroom but it does come up every now and then so probably endangered
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13:11:13 <esolangs> [[Truelang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199219 * Jaxcoder * (+1011) the description
13:11:43 <esolangs> [[Truelang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199220&oldid=199219 * Dragoneater67 * (+1) fix
13:11:56 <CometIIWW> It's genuinely refreshing seeing a new esolang page pop up that isn't ai slop
13:12:29 <de67> the esolang itself isnt all too interesting thp
13:12:57 <CometIIWW> I'd still take it over ai slop since it means they are here cause they might be interested in this stuff and not just advertising
13:13:05 <ais523> I kind-of assumed we were still getting more old-fashioned human-made slop than AI slop, but maybe I'm wrong
13:13:15 <CometIIWW> (also didn't know PenguinMod had lambdas wtf)
13:13:18 <ais523> (good languages have continued to be posted but they are a small minority)
13:13:29 <de67> ais523: recently the amount of ai slop has increased
13:14:17 <de67> ah, so trueos is actually just a scratch project
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13:14:36 <de67> i enabled javascript, now its asking me to enable webgl
13:14:46 <de67> i fucking love modern web
13:15:13 <ais523> I'm the sort of person who turns JS off and primarily visits websites that don't need it
13:15:21 <ais523> (I have a separate browser for the cases where I need it on)
13:15:32 <esolangs> [[The Church]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199221&oldid=199217 * Blashyrkh * (+0) /* Eta-reduction */ Fix typo in formula
13:15:49 <CometIIWW> TurboWarp is a Scratch implementation but **FAST** and with cool toys, PenguinMod is Scratch but with ***A LOT*** of cool toys
13:16:29 <ais523> hmm, if you add lambdas to Scratch, what shape are they?
13:16:41 <CometIIWW> Seeing switch-case and try-catch is insane, but in my opinion the craziest part is the fact that there's if-elif-elses now
13:16:49 <de67> ais523: perhaps (the round one)?
13:17:04 <ais523> oh right, because Scratch already has functoins
13:17:23 <de67> CometIIWW: how do elifs even work??
13:17:38 * ais523 realises that how you spell "else if" / "elseif" / "elif" is one of the few control structures that conventional programming languages don't really agree on
13:17:41 <CometIIWW> ais523: If we're going by PenguinMod then lambdas would look like aadenboy's Scratch block templates on the esowiki but you can put them inside places that expect lambdas
13:17:44 <ais523> match/switch/case is another
13:18:05 <CometIIWW> *you can place them inside number/string inputs
13:18:19 <ais523> thinking about it, in Scratch it would be unambiguous to just put an if inside the else block of another if
13:18:24 <ais523> so it doesn't really need an elif
13:18:30 <de67> ais523: i was making a stupid c derivative that tried to make c easier, and i renamed default to otherwise
13:18:55 <CometIIWW> Scratch does that already, there's no else-if so you end up with an insane amount of nesting and horizontal indentation
13:18:57 <ais523> does duff's device still work in it?
13:18:58 <de67> cuz i recall some other language did the same thing
13:19:18 <ais523> CometIIWW: ah, I guess what you would want to do is to just not indent in that case
13:19:48 <de67> CometIIWW: an another alternative is to use the operators
13:19:48 <ais523> this is one problem with indentation-based languages, they don't let you make exceptions in cases where blocks are syntactically nested but logically independent
13:20:14 <CometIIWW> I probably should've specified what "indent" meant, I meant that the C-blocks have a thin part to tell you it ate all the blocks so that width builds up, especially if you have a ton of if-else checks
13:20:43 <ais523> yes, I could imagine what you meant
13:21:13 <esolangs> [[Talk:NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199222&oldid=199211 * Assembly * (+208)
13:22:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199223&oldid=199222 * Assembly * (+60)
13:22:49 <esolangs> [[Talk:99 bottles of beer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199224&oldid=199207 * Assembly * (+166) /* Adding my implementation */
13:23:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199225&oldid=199223 * Dragoneater67 * (+288) wrong
13:24:02 <de67> this is perfect
13:24:07 <de67> 166 * 2 == 288
13:24:20 <esolangs> [[Talk:NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199226&oldid=199225 * Assembly * (+255)
13:24:59 <esolangs> [[Talk:NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199227&oldid=199226 * Dragoneater67 * (+182) why dont you make one?
13:25:32 <esolangs> [[Talk:NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199228&oldid=199227 * Assembly * (+170)
13:26:00 <esolangs> [[Talk:NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199229&oldid=199228 * Assembly * (+200)
13:26:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199230&oldid=199229 * Dragoneater67 * (+218)
13:26:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199231&oldid=199230 * Blashyrkh * (+258)
13:26:52 <esolangs> [[NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199232&oldid=199212 * Dragoneater67 * (+40) /* Why NAND? */
13:27:24 <esolangs> [[NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199233&oldid=199232 * Assembly * (+9)
13:29:17 <ais523> 166×2 should be 332 I think
13:29:52 <de67> moral of the story: think before you think
13:30:33 <int-e> . o O ( cut off your fingers so that you type more slowly than you think )
13:30:45 <esolangs> [[Talk:NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199234&oldid=199231 * Assembly * (+246)
13:30:50 <ais523> I already type more slowly than I think
13:31:05 <ais523> and, for some reason, phonetically, so sometimes I will accidentally type a homophone of the word I wanted to type
13:31:13 <esolangs> [[Talk:NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199235&oldid=199234 * Dragoneater67 * (+186) /* e */
13:31:31 <int-e> I do that too. In a non-native language. It's weird.
13:31:32 <de67> ais523: how that could possibly happen?
13:31:54 <int-e> de67: through optimization ;)
13:32:03 <int-e> brains develop weird shortcuts over time
13:32:08 <ais523> I guess I learned how to speak English before I learned how to write it, and my brain piggybacked on its existing knowledge
13:32:43 <de67> ais523: dont we all learn to speak before learning to write?
13:32:56 <ais523> most of my knowledge of non-native languages is from reading (especially when it comes to Chinese and Japanese kanji, some of which I recognise but don't know how to pronounce)
13:32:57 <int-e> de67: Consider this... do you actually think about how a word is spelled when typing it?
13:33:11 <esolangs> [[Talk:NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199236&oldid=199235 * Assembly * (+205)
13:33:20 <de67> int-e: roughly
13:33:23 <ais523> my sentence was ambiguous, it brackets like this: (Chinese) and (Japanese kanji)
13:33:45 <de67> ais523: its not very ambiguous
13:33:52 <de67> since kanji is only applicable to japanese
13:33:59 <int-e> "ambiguous" is one of the words where I do think about the spelling
13:33:59 <de67> (iirc chinese name is hazi)
13:34:16 <int-e> the uous part is just weird
13:34:31 <de67> int-e: i pronounce it as iows
13:34:52 <de67> ee-oh-s actually
13:35:19 <ais523> actually the last vowel is more of a short oo than a u
13:36:10 <esolangs> [[NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199237&oldid=199233 * Assembly * (+62)
13:36:25 <esolangs> [[NAND Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199238&oldid=199237 * Assembly * (+12)
13:36:56 <de67> im pretty sure that NAND Machine is a FSA
13:37:30 <de67> and i also havent produced any slo- ummmmm esolangs in a while
13:37:38 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the FitnessGram Pacer Test]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199239&oldid=199215 * Assembly * (+5) added a link
13:38:31 <int-e> it has no semantics
13:38:41 * ais523 wonders if there are things you could replace the + with which would be more interesting than arbitrary long constant strings of text
13:39:11 <ais523> the smallest-counterexample-to-the-goldbach-conjecture one is interesting because you can actually implement that
13:39:13 <int-e> If the graph is acyclic then you get a boolean circuit but "it can make flip-flop" suggests some dynamic semantics that aren't specified.
13:39:30 <de67> ais523: probablility of the brainfuck currently being executed program halting?
13:39:31 <ais523> (you don't have to know what the smallest counterexample is, just to be able to check whether a given string of digits is the smallest counterexample; the latter is possible but time-consuming)
13:39:51 <int-e> de67: anyway, yeah it has finitely many states
13:40:24 <int-e> I feel that people conflating circuit completeness with TC-ness happens quite a lot.
13:41:24 <de67> int-e: ive made a NAND* language a while ago, its NANDNZ, i for some reason classified it as an LBA, dunno if its actually an LBA, but i definitely knew that it wasnt TC, i dunno why i made NANDNZ cuz its not very interesting
13:41:31 <int-e> brainfuck, but the first ack(5,5) characters must be spaces
13:41:44 <ais523> almost all esolangs can be separated into control and data parts
13:41:47 <de67> int-e: true anti-golfing language achieved?
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13:42:04 <de67> ais523: what about functional languages?
13:42:12 <int-e> de67: it's such a stupid way to make a language purely theoretical, isn't it
13:42:20 <ais523> and normally for a language to be TC, the control part has to be an arbitrary FSM and the data part has to meet the basics of being sufficiently powerful
13:42:26 <int-e> until you invent notation for acc(5,5) spaces
13:42:27 <ais523> but there are exceptions
13:42:32 <int-e> and then it collapses into brainfuck
13:42:53 <de67> ais523: is brainfuck a pda hooked up to a tape?
13:42:58 <de67> or am i missing smth?
13:42:59 <ais523> there have been a few "return to start if current tape element is 0/1" BF-like languages and I've been thinking about them a little but haven't come to conclusions yet
13:43:09 <int-e> de67: it's a FSA, there's no stack
13:43:15 <ais523> de67: it isn't a proper PDA, because the "loop stack" is tied to the nesting level of the progam
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13:43:31 <ais523> so the number of possible loop-stack states is fixed by the program and can't expand
13:44:04 <ais523> (this is despite the fact that in some interpreters, it might be an actual stack – this is because the interpreter needs to be able to handle arbitrary programs, but any particular program will only use it in finitely many ways)
13:44:40 <int-e> 8-bit brainfuck describes a subset of Turing machines with 256 tape symbols (and no end-of-tape marker)
13:45:15 <int-e> (or, I guess, fixed behavior on end-of-tape: always write a 0 and keep the state)
13:45:36 <ais523> I don't think Turing machines are normally considered to have an end-of-tape marker
13:45:40 <ais523> that's an implementation detail
13:45:59 <int-e> I don't think that there is a "normal" :P
13:46:14 <ais523> I did get away with convincing the mathematical community that it was reasonable to use a half-infinite tape and have falling off the end be a halt, but that's a nonstandard formalization
13:46:40 <de67> ive been thinking about some system: its a turing machine where the tape is initialized to an infinitely repeating finite pattern, and theres no way to change the values of cells, but its possible to swap 2 adjacent cells
13:46:44 <int-e> (You need to be very precise for BB(n) though and that dialect doesn't have end-of-tape markers)
13:48:49 <ais523> de67: that can easily be used to simulate regular Turing machines by, e.g., initializing the tape to alternating 0s and 1s and having 01 represent a 0 and 10 represent a 1, changing between a represented-0 and represented-1 by swapping
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13:50:18 <int-e> I certainly don't have an unbiased sample of TM formalizations. All I know is that the details vary quite a bit, depending on what people want to do with them.
13:51:08 <ais523> de67: I'm glad I could show you this trick, it's one of my standard TC-proving tricks and I was hoping it was well-known, but it might not be
13:51:28 <ais523> that said, I'm not sure what it's called
13:51:47 <ais523> something like "representing a symbol in the interpreted language as a sequence of symbols in the interpreting language"
13:51:55 <ais523> but that isn't a very snappy name
13:52:02 <de67> oh i know about that trick
13:52:18 <de67> first time i saw it was in the [[kak]] tcness proof
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13:53:29 <int-e> a bit more abstractly, simulating cells as pairs of cells is a recurring theme
13:54:00 <int-e> de67: IIRC you did that yourself when you made that + only brainfuck
13:54:34 <ais523> I've done a lot of TCness proofs where the substituted symbols were really long
13:54:57 <int-e> ais523: sure, that's an obvious next step ;)
13:58:20 <esolangs> [[BFFuck/3.x plans]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199240&oldid=197542 * None1 * (+52) /* Features */
14:00:40 <esolangs> [[Simpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199241&oldid=199027 * Cordership * (+21) /* Syntax */
14:02:07 <int-e> esolangs: what does "Output is implicit." mean?
14:02:15 <esolangs> int-e: "Output is implicit" refers to the plotter program's ability to generate the displayed output without explicit commands for each character. The program uses mathematical calculations (specifically, graphing a quadratic equation) to determine the coordinates of points on the graph, and then automatically outputs these points as characters, creating...
14:02:58 <fungot> int-e: would you mind describing your problem to the person who has to include them." " i should also return f
14:03:25 <esolangs> [[BFFuck/3.x plans]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199242&oldid=199240 * None1 * (+125)
14:06:50 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199243&oldid=195895 * None1 * (-82416) Split the page
14:07:40 <CometIIWW> 99 people drink one bottle of beer
14:07:47 <CometIIWW> (it's the same bottle and no refills)
14:09:54 <esolangs> [[Truelang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199244&oldid=199220 * Jaxcoder * (+332) Added the updates
14:10:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:Truelang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199245 * Jaxcoder * (+113) Created page with "this edit created this page-~~~~"
14:14:57 <esolangs> [[Talk:99 bottles of beer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199246&oldid=199224 * None1 * (+416) /* Adding my implementation */ I attempted to split the page but failed because of the abuse filter, so admin actions is required for splitting large pages.
14:16:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:99 bottles of beer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199247&oldid=199246 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+392) /* Adding my implementation */
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14:19:00 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (Non alpha-G)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199248 * None1 * (+40363) Created page with "===[[41]]=== <pre> 9b*( :n"elttob "oooooo1- / "s"o \ 1+",llaw eht no reeb fo "ooooooooooooooooooooo10o :n"elttob "oooooo1- / "s"o \ ",reeb fo "ooooooooo10o",dnuora ti ss
14:19:35 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (Non alpha-G)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199249&oldid=199248 * None1 * (+42036)
14:20:00 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (Non alpha-G)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199250&oldid=199249 * None1 * (+3) /* G Sharp */
14:20:13 <CometIIWW> If only the delta of that first edit were 2400 bytes higher
14:20:40 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (Non alpha-G)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199251&oldid=199250 * None1 * (+49)
14:20:58 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (Non alpha-G)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199252&oldid=199251 * None1 * (+29)
14:21:08 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (Non alpha-G)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199253&oldid=199252 * None1 * (+0)
14:22:38 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199254&oldid=199243 * None1 * (-83612) /* List of implementations */
14:23:11 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (H-R)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199255 * None1 * (+36936) Created page with " ===[[HQ9+]]=== <pre>9</pre> ===[[Huit]]=== <pre>&100(Loop)&1&"%d bottles of beer on the wall.":&1&"%d bottles of beer.":&1 &"Take one down, pass it around,\n%d bottles of beer on the wall.":&2 -:?-:?-:?-:?%%%:?>>>:[End,End,Loop](End)</pr
14:23:23 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (H-R)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199256&oldid=199255 * None1 * (+46678)
14:23:48 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (H-R)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199257&oldid=199256 * None1 * (+57)
14:24:21 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199258&oldid=199254 * None1 * (-29690) /* List of implementations */
14:25:08 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (S-Z)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199259 * None1 * (+29766) Created page with ":{{Back|99 bottles of beer}} ==Implementations== ===[[Satarcrimp]]=== <pre> {M)WUCW)($A(tjW)RJVW$){WR*OST*-0POJUSPO*<WYLCI&Q@UHYRCU:(JU:jup9k39]4823-l0 l9K() {$MV )E$MUV()um()EUB)}E(%MXMB_k-]k_E$FKVE){LRV}ER TE$ LV$}_ 9m[0 EM{E(PB^UP*^ 99
14:25:36 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (H-R)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199260&oldid=199257 * None1 * (+20)
14:26:54 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199261&oldid=199258 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+239) /* List of implementations */ link to subpages
14:27:11 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199262&oldid=199261 * None1 * (+243) /* List of implementations */
14:27:37 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199263&oldid=199262 * None1 * (-244) /* List of implementations */
14:28:17 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * None1 * moved [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (Non alpha-G)]] to [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (nonalphabetic and A-G)]]
14:28:44 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199266&oldid=199263 * None1 * (+10) /* List of implementations */ Fix name
14:29:08 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (nonalphabetic and A-G)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199267&oldid=199264 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+3369) Add [[Crawssembly]]
14:29:33 <esolangs> [[Talk:99 bottles of beer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199268&oldid=199247 * None1 * (+334)
14:30:30 <esolangs> [[Talk:99 bottles of beer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199269&oldid=199268 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+369) /* Adding my implementation */ it's there now
14:31:53 <esolangs> [[Category:Generated by AI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199270&oldid=196844 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+3) This category has also been used for AI-generated articles so fix a little grammar thing to communicate yes
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15:45:38 <esolangs> [[Alternating Exasperation Machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199271 * Dragoneater67 * (+71) Redirected page to [[The Exasperation Machine#Alternating Exasperation Machine]]
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16:01:57 <esolangs> [[SMISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199272&oldid=198677 * Obuqwe * (+854)
16:02:37 <esolangs> [[SMISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199273&oldid=199272 * Obuqwe * (+10)
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16:25:27 <esolangs> [[ ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199274 * Dragoneater67 * (+1276) new esolang!!!
16:25:37 <esolangs> [[ ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199275&oldid=199274 * Dragoneater67 * (+1) /* = XKCD Random Number */
16:26:39 <esolangs> [[User:Dragoneater67]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199276&oldid=199189 * Dragoneater67 * (+69) /* my awesome esolangs */
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16:29:12 <esolangs> [[Overload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199277&oldid=148457 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+33) As proof is wrong i removed computational class
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16:38:36 <esolangs> [[ ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199278&oldid=199275 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+66)
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17:12:18 <esolangs> [[Talk: ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199279 * PkmnQ * (+948) Created page with "Translation to [[Conditional brainfuck]] with 1-bit cells: * First line is always <code>0010</code>. This represents a zero on the Conditional brainfuck tape. A one is represented with a <code>0100</code> instead. * <code>+</code>/<code>-</code> - <code>>/<</code> * <code>>
17:12:19 <esolangs> [[User:Squidmanescape/Unimplemented By Date]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199280&oldid=198572 * Squidmanescape * (+8) /* 2015 */
17:15:54 <esolangs> [[Talk: ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199281&oldid=199279 * PkmnQ * (+332)
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17:28:28 <esolangs> [[Ant again]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199282&oldid=198900 * Assembly * (+4)
17:38:26 <esolangs> [[Ant again]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199283&oldid=199282 * Assembly * (-1) /* Ant again to BF */
17:40:48 <esolangs> [[Ant again]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199284&oldid=199283 * Assembly * (+75) /* Ant again to BF */
17:44:13 <esolangs> [[User:Win7HE/sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199285&oldid=199180 * Win7HE * (+280)
17:45:56 <esolangs> [[Talk: ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199286&oldid=199281 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+203)
17:50:08 <esolangs> [[User:Win7HE/sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199287&oldid=199285 * Win7HE * (+17)
17:51:24 <esolangs> [[User:Gducrash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199288&oldid=86866 * Gducrash * (-147) Blanked the page
17:51:24 <esolangs> [[User:Win7HE/sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199289&oldid=199287 * Win7HE * (+8)
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17:53:53 <esolangs> [[User:Win7HE/sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199290&oldid=199289 * Win7HE * (-23)
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17:57:35 <esolangs> [[User:Win7HE/sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199291&oldid=199290 * Win7HE * (-17)
17:58:55 <esolangs> [[User:Win7HE/sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199292&oldid=199291 * Win7HE * (+41)
18:04:33 <fungot> CometIIWW: i suppose that would be
18:04:47 <esolangs> [[SMISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199293&oldid=199273 * Obuqwe * (+42)
18:04:51 <CometIIWW> There are around three and a half constant things in this world
18:04:54 <fungot> CometIIWW: my initial thought is that external iterators like this aren't very schemish, and that
18:05:04 <CometIIWW> i forgot the other twoo and a half
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18:09:30 <fungot> aadenboy: i had. is that right?
18:09:56 <esolangs> [[SMISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199294&oldid=199293 * PkmnQ * (+0) /* Implimentation(s) */ Correct category name (this language seems interesting, I should look at it when I have the time)
18:10:11 <esolangs> [[SMISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199295&oldid=199294 * PkmnQ * (+0) /* Implimentation(s) */ ...I didn't even correct the category name correctly
18:10:17 <esolangs> [[DESTELLO]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199296 * Megaplay20 * (+17494) Created page with "'''Disclaimer on the Use of AI''' The entire story and lore of Destello have been written by humans. No part of the content or information in the story was generated by artificial intelligence, and no AI-generated ideas were used in its creation. AI tools have be
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18:11:06 <esolangs> [[SMISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199297&oldid=199295 * PkmnQ * (-2) /* Implimentation(s) */ Wait, there's an implementation linked
18:11:18 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer/Implementations (H-R)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199298&oldid=199260 * Aadenboy * (+10612) /* Implementations */ add [[Hopscotch (Hopscotch Technologies)]] now that the page is split
18:12:09 <esolangs> [[SMISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199299&oldid=199297 * PkmnQ * (+8) These should also be level 2 headings rather than level 1
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18:28:11 <esolangs> [[Dranoer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199300&oldid=195809 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+205)
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18:30:30 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08/Sketches]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199301&oldid=199148 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+161)
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18:35:00 <esolangs> [[DESTELLO]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199302&oldid=199296 * Megaplay20 * (+65) /* The Depths of Our Language */
18:37:24 <esolangs> [[DESTELLO]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199303&oldid=199302 * Megaplay20 * (+13) /* The Depths of Our Language */
18:49:15 <esolangs> [[9-gJGPoegjo3qjg0eapogke;pogjegpo;klegek;gJKOPGf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199304&oldid=193257 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+70)
19:00:47 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08/Sketches]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199305&oldid=199301 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+176)
19:04:21 <esolangs> [[9-gJGPoegjo3qjg0eapogke;pogjegpo;klegek;gJKOPGf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199306&oldid=199304 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+26)
19:05:06 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08/Sketches]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199307&oldid=199305 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+14)
19:05:44 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08/Sketches]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199308&oldid=199307 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-59)
19:07:15 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08/Sketches]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199309&oldid=199308 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-321)
19:07:48 -!- AnovaCometFloppa has changed nick to AnovaBotIII.
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19:34:16 <esolangs> [[Backstroke]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199310&oldid=198344 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+0) /* Computational class */
19:36:41 -!- aa has changed nick to aadenboy.
19:39:04 <esolangs> [[ArrowQueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199311&oldid=197799 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+10) Corrected the example
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19:55:40 <esolangs> [[Talk: ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199312&oldid=199286 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+160)
19:56:15 <esolangs> [[Talk: ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199313&oldid=199312 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+94)
20:11:09 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hammy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199314&oldid=199139 * Hammy * (+261) /* lies in your userpage */
20:18:59 <esolangs> [[Talk: ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199315&oldid=199313 * Assembly * (+225)
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21:08:24 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tau * New user account
21:12:11 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199316&oldid=199183 * Tau * (+135)
21:13:25 <esolangs> [[Open]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199317 * Hammy * (+2265) Created page with "'''Open''' is a variable-based esolang by [[User:Hammy]] where you can only use 3 variables at a time. It was inspired by [[shelflife]]. == Commands == Each command is seperated by a semicolon or new line. If your syntax is wrong (e.g. using non-existent commands or forgetti
21:19:27 <esolangs> [[DESTELLO]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199318&oldid=199303 * Megaplay20 * (-12) /* Operations */
21:20:15 <esolangs> [[DESTELLO]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199319&oldid=199318 * Megaplay20 * (-57) /* Control flow */
21:24:55 <esolangs> [[Tau (Noelle's Version)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199320 * Tau * (+9507) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Tau |paradigms=imperative |author=[https://github.com/noellekde noellekde] |year=[[:Category:2026|2026]] |typesys=none (fixed-size cells) |memsys=[[:Category:Cell-based|cell-based]] |dimensions=one-dimensional |class=[[:Category:Unkno
21:27:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:Tau (Noelle's Version)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199321 * Tau * (+77) Created page with "--~~~~ nkde"
21:31:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Aadenboy * moved [[Tau]] to [[Tau (Dmiz)]]: disambiguation
21:32:13 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Aadenboy * moved [[Tau (Noelle's Version)]] to [[Tau (Noelle)]]: consistency
21:32:13 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Aadenboy * moved [[Talk:Tau (Noelle's Version)]] to [[Talk:Tau (Noelle)]]: consistency
21:32:30 <esolangs> [[Tau]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199328&oldid=199323 * Aadenboy * (+50) disambiguation
21:52:07 <esolangs> [[Um]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199329 * Spira. * (+521) Created page with "{{lowercase}} '''Um''' is turing-complemete esolang by [[user:Spira.]] ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !Command!!Description |- |<code>um</code>||[[bf]] . |- |<code>u m</code>||[[bf]] , |- |<code>u mm</code>||[[bf]] > |- |<code>uu m</code>||[[bf]] < |- |<code>umm</code>||[[b
21:52:31 <esolangs> [[User:Spira.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199330&oldid=199134 * Spira. * (+6)
22:05:36 <esolangs> [[AuroraCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=199331&oldid=198999 * GozzieGoober * (-28)
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22:48:27 <MarkFan8901> [[AuroraCode]] has its interpreter on the page
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22:52:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:AuroraCode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=199332 * MarkFan8901 * (+309) /* interpreter should probably be moved off-site */ new section
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