←2004-04-29 2004-04-30 2004-05-01→ ↑2004 ↑all
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03:34:27 <dbc> There's a nice mushroom.
03:34:45 <andreou> not if I can't eat it :)
03:34:51 * andreou licks the screen
04:03:01 <andreou> the hallucinations just stopped.
04:03:04 <andreou> please paste another one!
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05:54:30 <andreou> so long, evil lurkers.
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07:32:26 <heatsink> wb
07:32:50 <lament> heatsink: compiled unlambda to c yet? :)
07:32:59 <andreou> bedankt
07:33:16 <heatsink> Yup
07:33:22 <andreou> hello, world. just got back from a shower and i'm a bit sleepy and smooth. peaceful and tranquil...
07:33:36 <lament> andreou: BOO!
07:33:44 * heatsink feels andreou
07:33:48 <lament> heatsink: via scheme or for real?
07:33:51 <heatsink> ah, youa re smooth
07:33:54 <andreou> lament :-) try harder, i'm *really* tranquil.
07:34:01 <andreou> heatsink yeah go down on me.
07:34:03 * lament steals andreou's coffee
07:34:03 <andreou> em
07:34:05 <heatsink> lament: via scheme
07:34:07 <andreou> sorry, wrong window.
07:34:09 <lament> now you shall be tranquil forever!
07:34:20 <lament> MWAHAHAHA
07:34:24 <andreou> lament i don't drink coffee. yeah, i know, that's weird, but i don't.
07:34:32 <lament> what are you, a freak?
07:34:43 <andreou> no. don't you know? RHDNC.
07:34:43 <lament> Do you drink tea?
07:34:55 <andreou> yes, earl grey, lipton and a green chinese brand.
07:35:06 <lament> Teabags?
07:35:10 <andreou> but rarely, only when i'm smoking
07:35:16 <andreou> yeah, mostly.
07:35:17 <lament> Google gives one hit for rhdnc
07:35:17 <heatsink> Of course, scheme can be compiled to assembly, but it's already been done
07:35:26 <heatsink> I haven't had coffee in a long time either
07:35:34 <lament> heatsink: The compiler itself is Scheme too?
07:35:35 <heatsink> Earl Grey, Rooibos, and Jasmine
07:35:38 <heatsink> lament: yes
07:35:47 <lament> Are you going to publish it?
07:35:58 <heatsink> I can put it on the web if you'd like
07:36:15 <andreou> lament "real hackers don't need coffee" heh
07:36:25 <heatsink> It's quite small
07:36:30 <lament> it's the first ever, isn't it
07:36:43 <heatsink> I believe so
07:36:44 <lament> andreou: yeah, they produce their own caffeine
07:37:06 * andreou is spreading new legends
07:37:17 <lament> heatsink: i think it's rather neat that it can be done at all :)
07:37:33 <heatsink> Well, thanks
07:37:34 <lament> Oh, and tea in teabags is the devil. It's even worse than instant coffee.
07:37:40 <heatsink> Have you played with unlambda much?
07:37:52 <lament> It's basically wood shavings, painted brown, with added artificial flavours.
07:38:04 <andreou> lament i am a sinister creation, what can i say...
07:38:09 <lament> heatsink: no, not really
07:38:12 <heatsink> Why would anyone need to paint wood shavings brown?
07:38:20 <lament> Dark brown.
07:38:28 <andreou> i don't like brownies.
07:38:40 <heatsink> The funny thing about unlambda is that it's more fun to write an implementation of unlambda than it is to write a program :)
07:38:46 <andreou> hm let's give titles to the lurkers of this channel.
07:38:46 <lament> I don't think I ever wrote a single non-trivial program in unlambda
07:38:49 <andreou> <-- resident surrealist
07:39:03 <lament> edwinb - mushroom guy
07:39:09 <andreou> that's a classic :)
07:39:27 <andreou> Taaus -- power to the people
07:40:04 <lament> clog -- talent misplaced
07:40:04 <andreou> lament care to self-characterize?
07:40:16 <lament> hm
07:40:24 <andreou> cmeme -- sinister meme infection device
07:40:32 <andreou> s/infection/distribution/
07:40:49 <lament> <-- in it for the girls
07:40:53 <andreou> dbc -- cute-fishbone-fractal guy
07:40:56 <andreou> lament hehe
07:41:05 <lament> no, dbc is just the fractal guy
07:41:06 <andreou> the cute goes to the fishbone fractals, ok? :)
07:41:09 <andreou> ok
07:41:11 <heatsink> Um... the majority of girls in this profession are computer-generated
07:41:20 <andreou> fizzie -- beffungoid
07:41:34 <lament> heatsink: that's what makes them so appealing
07:41:36 <andreou> heatsink suits me fine,
07:41:55 <heatsink> I suit you fine? aw, how sweet ^_^
07:42:11 <andreou> hm this channel does not have a homepage.
07:42:12 <lament> heatsink: he can't forget you feeling him earlier
07:42:12 <andreou> yet.
07:42:16 <lament> well
07:42:20 <andreou> i'll hack together one when i wake up :-)
07:42:21 <lament> this channel has a whole mailing list
07:42:33 <andreou> lament no, the mailing list has this channel. eh, right?
07:42:41 <lament> well, right
07:42:56 <lament> A homepage with a wiki would be damn nice.
07:43:07 <lament> It could serve as a repository for esoteric stuff as well
07:43:09 <andreou> wiki? hm, i'll see to it, although i've never administered a wiki before.
07:43:20 * andreou hates web-based communities
07:43:22 <lament> what with catseye dead
07:43:25 <andreou> they should all be sent to dis
07:43:28 <andreou> it's dead?
07:43:29 <andreou> damn.
07:43:34 <andreou> ok.
07:43:47 <lament> it's been dead for years
07:43:52 <lament> and there's that other place (tm)
07:43:57 <andreou> anyone good with webdesign? i can provide the space and scripts, but i really can't put two and two bits together when it comes to gfx :)
07:44:13 <lament> which uses "stupid" instead of "esoteric"
07:44:17 <andreou> i thought it was just forgotten (by me); i remember it going down for "just a while"...
07:44:19 <lament> and "brainfork" instead of "brainfuck"
07:44:20 <andreou> ah yeah
07:44:29 <andreou> ... i never saw it came back up...
07:44:31 * andreou claps
07:44:36 * andreou weeps
07:44:49 <lament> alas, it's gone
07:44:57 <andreou> we shall move on.
07:45:12 <lament> the esoteric community isn't just small, it's horribly fractured.
07:45:16 <lament> Mostly into chunks of one person each
07:45:28 <andreou> hm this fractal i have on the background... it's weird... it has angels, a huge demon-like pig trying to eat me, many horns and strange colors...
07:45:37 <heatsink> I saw this great mention of brainfuck in one of the class lecture notes
07:45:41 <lament> Are the angels trying to eat you?
07:45:56 <andreou> heatsink a reference similar to the 'f - not funny' in that intercal paper?
07:46:04 <andreou> lament no, they're going for the pig.
07:46:06 <heatsink> no
07:46:13 <andreou> xm and some ghosts as well...
07:46:17 <heatsink> It was a parenthetical comment about the language
07:46:21 <andreou> i liked the f-reference
07:46:27 <andreou> heatsink what did it say?
07:46:46 <lament> In the kids' programming channels (#c, #python), esoteric languages do get mentioned from time to time
07:46:48 <andreou> you guys find the worse times to unlurk...
07:46:49 <lament> mostly brainfuck
07:47:05 <andreou> brainfuckoffkiddo
07:47:16 <heatsink> I think it was something like, the text listed programming languages (C, Scheme, Haskell, Brainfudge[1])
07:47:21 <heatsink> And in the footnote it said
07:47:22 <andreou> in on minute, my misery will be over.
07:47:38 <andreou> [1] Don't use that language, kids!
07:47:41 <lament> andreou: don't do it! the world needs you!
07:47:42 <andreou> no.
07:47:48 <andreou> [1] Out of reach of children.
07:48:11 <andreou> lament ay) i don't need the world; i need sleep bee) the only person in the world that needs me is heatsink and his fingers.
07:48:16 <andreou> by the way, do we have any women in here?
07:48:36 <lament> cmeme. But she's already married to clog
07:48:51 <andreou> i'm all for polyamorous relationships.
07:49:01 <heatsink> Well, brainfork is not actually known to be turing-complete; besides which brainfooey is not something any sane programmer would want to program in. For more info on brainfufu, look at the website (...). Of course, it's not actually called Brainflock, but we don't want to mention bad words and all that shit.
07:49:02 <andreou> hm, and she's french, right? she'll have that cute fwench acc'ent...
07:49:14 <lament> But would hcf be?
07:49:27 <andreou> matters not.
07:49:32 <andreou> heatsink 'not turing complete'?
07:49:39 <andreou> it's a freaking turing *machine* fgs.
07:49:54 <lament> Larry Wall mentioned Brainfuck in one of his lectures on parrot.
07:49:57 <andreou> for FUFU's sake!
07:50:07 <lament> There was a long list of languages on the slide, and the last was "Brainfuck"
07:50:08 <andreou> lament they have a bf interpreter in parrot, check parrotcode.org.
07:50:11 <lament> and he was reading the list alound
07:50:14 <lament> aloud
07:50:22 <lament> and when he got to the end he said
07:50:24 <andreou> "we're famous, we're famous!"
07:50:35 <andreou> <silent>oh, and brain, eh, fork.</silent>
07:50:45 <lament> "And I can't quite make out that last one... And even if I could, i wouldn't say it. Because there're kids present, and I wouldn't want to fuck with their brains"
07:50:59 <lament> Larry Wall might be evil, but he's great :)
07:51:10 <andreou> HAHAHAHA
07:51:19 <andreou> evil people are nice.
07:51:21 <heatsink> (:
07:51:38 <andreou> :) (:never forget to close a comment, kiddo!:)
07:51:54 <lament> hm, is there a smiley programming language?
07:52:04 <andreou> (that would be my addition to pascal, (: ... :)-style comments)
07:52:20 <lament> Just what Pascal needs. ANOTHER type of comments.
07:52:23 <andreou> lament with just :) or with :-) :-* #8-)# etc?
07:52:31 <lament> andreou: I guess the latter
07:52:36 <heatsink> You make pascal a happier language
07:52:39 <andreou> lament three is the charm or however they say that in american.
07:52:54 <lament> heatsink: pascal is already ecstatic
07:53:00 <andreou> heatsink yeah, and pascal programmers really *need* as many smiley faces in their lives as they can have
07:53:34 <andreou> ok, there goes nothing.
07:53:37 <andreou> i'm off to sleep.
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07:53:59 <heatsink> right-o
07:54:27 <heatsink> I still need to work on that esolang that's made entirely of nested parentheses, brackets, and braces sometime
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07:54:33 <andreou> hahaha gotcha!
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07:55:02 <lament> heatsink: isn't there one already?
07:55:09 <heatsink> Oh... darn
07:55:33 <lament> i think it was called []
07:55:46 <heatsink> What, they didn't want search engines linking it?
07:55:55 <lament> and invented to be used at the subjects of esolang postings
07:56:00 <lament> s/at/in
07:56:41 <lament> well
07:56:54 <lament> if people can name their language "C" and get away with it, why not "[]"?
07:57:59 <heatsink> sure
07:58:13 <heatsink> I don't think there's an esolang that has a non-ascii name still
07:59:09 <lament> hmmmmmmmmmmmm
07:59:19 <heatsink> Well, I liked my other idea better anyway
07:59:20 <lament> i can think of a few good non-ascii names
07:59:33 <heatsink> Can you tell me?
07:59:38 <lament> 'lambda' is a good one
07:59:46 <lament> and so is 'wu' (the chinese character)
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08:00:05 <heatsink> what does wu mean?
08:00:18 <lament> it's more commonly known by its japanese pronunciation, mu
08:00:52 <heatsink> ok
08:01:15 <lament> 'pi' - perhaps for a language with a transcendental data type?
08:01:41 <lament> a C7 chord would be a nice name for a language
08:02:29 <heatsink> What's a C7 chord?
08:02:47 <lament> well, a chord based on C and consisting of C, E, G and Bb
08:02:55 <lament> but really, any chord based on C would be fun
08:03:01 <lament> "Screw C#! That's just one note!"
08:03:07 <heatsink> heh
08:03:27 <lament> good name for a threads-only language
08:06:22 <heatsink> Hmm, C - Bb isn't harmonic
08:06:44 <heatsink> I'm looking at the ones almost an octave apart
08:07:07 <lament> "harmonic"?
08:07:14 <lament> what do you mean by that?
08:07:47 <lament> A cute name for a language would be the symbol of the Zodiac sign that happens to be in effect at the time the language is talked about
08:08:15 <heatsink> by harmonic I mean the ratio of the notes is very close to a rational fraction with small integer numerator and denominator
08:08:46 <heatsink> Nah, that language would be a pain because people would always be getting its name wrong
08:08:47 <lament> well
08:09:03 <heatsink> You go through all the trouble of scripting your website to always display the correct name
08:09:17 <heatsink> And then people make static copies of it and leave it around for months
08:09:23 <lament> first of all, with modern tunic the ratio of notes a third apart is nothing at all like a nice rational fraction
08:09:28 <lament> s/tunic/tuning :)
08:09:41 <heatsink> Yes, that's why I say close to and not exactly
08:09:45 <lament> And nobody seems to mind very much
08:10:14 <heatsink> For example, a third is very close to 5/4
08:10:15 <lament> Second, while the ratio of C to Bb might not be nice, Bb is a very close overtone of C anyway
08:10:29 <lament> er, it's not
08:10:32 <lament> nevermind
08:10:53 <heatsink> I'm getting 5.0396/4
08:10:54 <lament> Finally though, nobody really cares if it's close or not
08:11:13 <lament> what matters is how it sounds.
08:11:22 <heatsink> It sounds discordant if they aren't harmonic
08:11:27 <lament> No, that's wrong.
08:11:41 <lament> Do minor chords sound discordant?
08:11:51 <heatsink> Diminished chords do
08:12:04 <lament> What about minor ones? Is a minor third harmonic?
08:12:13 <heatsink> Music's brain effects are rather interesting; the brain tends to interpret chords and sequences of notes as a single sound
08:12:15 <heatsink> let me see
08:12:40 <lament> Yes, that's annoying
08:12:40 <heatsink> It looks like a minor third has a ratio of 5.946/5
08:12:46 <lament> But when you're high on weed, that doesn't happen :)
08:12:57 <lament> or at least doesn't happen as often
08:13:09 <lament> This is why everybody should smoke weed when listening to music.
08:13:29 <heatsink> But then music would no longer aid in studying
08:13:36 <heatsink> And they would ban music at universities
08:13:47 <heatsink> I couldn't handle that
08:14:12 <lament> wow, you're right. A minor third is ideally 6:5
08:14:24 <lament> anyway
08:15:06 <heatsink> yes?
08:15:25 <lament> whether an interval sounds nice depends mostly on the speaker
08:15:33 <lament> on the culture of the speaker
08:15:43 <heatsink> Not the listener?
08:15:49 <lament> sorry. The listener. :)
08:15:57 <heatsink> (::)
08:16:08 <lament> It's true that intervals based on simple ratios sound "more euphonic" by nature.
08:16:39 <lament> In the middle ages, there were exactly two really euphonic intervals.
08:16:44 <lament> The fifth and the octave.
08:16:52 <lament> Even the major third was considered dissonant.
08:17:18 <lament> To accept the major third as consonant was a major breakthrough
08:17:32 <lament> that happened in the renaissance
08:17:57 <heatsink> Interesting
08:18:15 <lament> Now, thanks to things like jazz and modern classical, pretty much anything is consonant, when given proper context
08:18:54 <lament> 7th chords were good enough for Bach, although he wouldn't end a piece on one.
08:19:18 <heatsink> Anything can be part of a piece, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it consonance
08:19:50 <heatsink> I would say that there is less emphasis on consonance in contemporary music than in classical european music
08:20:06 <lament> Does all jazz sound dissonant to you?
08:20:11 <heatsink> No
08:20:40 <lament> See.
08:21:08 <lament> Pretty much all of jazz uses 7th chords (at the very least), whether major or minor
08:21:16 <lament> from C to Bb, by the way, is 16:9
08:21:54 <heatsink> oh, okay
08:22:21 <heatsink> I made a mistake -- I was doing C to B
08:22:34 <lament> and that's 15:8, apparently
08:22:50 <lament> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_seventh
08:22:53 <heatsink> Although I would have missed C to Bb because I was using 60 as the denominator
08:24:16 <heatsink> Hmm, the dom 7th is closer to 17:9, but I'm sure the shared harmonics aren't audible in that case
08:24:29 <lament> what
08:24:39 <lament> it shouldn't be closer to 17:9
08:24:55 <lament> it should be 16:9 because that's what wikipedia says...
08:24:55 <heatsink> C and B are 11 half-notes apart, right?
08:25:18 <lament> C and B isn't a dominant seventh. And that's 15:8
08:25:30 <lament> C and Bb is a dominant seventh.
08:25:36 <heatsink> oh
08:26:04 <lament> it would be a dominant to F-major
08:26:15 <lament> and Bb is a note in the F major scale
08:26:27 <lament> unlike the C major scale, where it stands out
08:27:38 <lament> wow, this is really weird: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepard_tone
08:28:09 <heatsink> Oh, I see
08:28:14 <heatsink> interesting
08:30:16 <heatsink> The picture is a big help to understanding that, I didn't know how it worked before
08:30:27 <heatsink> I've heard it mentioned
08:30:42 <heatsink> This is a nice bit of music: "Glass Onion" at http://www-math.cudenver.edu/~jstarret/listenmp3.html
08:30:48 <heatsink> It's in 22 tet
08:31:27 <lament> Not Found
08:31:43 <heatsink> hmm
08:33:36 <heatsink> can't find an alternate source
08:34:23 <lament> holy shit
08:34:38 <lament> this shepard tone demonstration is scaring me
08:34:50 <heatsink> you can hear it?
08:34:58 <lament> http://www.noah.org/science/audio_paradox/endless.mp3
08:35:19 <lament> listen to it once, then again
08:37:11 <heatsink> cool
08:37:20 <heatsink> It doesn't quite work for me though
08:37:26 <heatsink> May be because these speakers suck
08:37:51 <lament> this might depend on the person
08:37:57 <lament> the other examples did'nt work for me at all
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18:27:01 <andreou> hm...
18:27:35 <andreou> given the nature of the website, the mental stability of its creator and the overhead of php/*sql installation in openbsd, i will write the software in some obscure language/db combo.
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21:26:01 <toreun> hi there
21:26:23 <andreou> hey
21:27:46 <toreun> yay for internet cafes that also serve fudge
21:28:05 <andreou> what is fudge? fud about gigabit ethernet?
21:28:18 <fizzie> un-yay for the noisy people that have decided to have a party just under my window.
21:28:49 <toreun> not quite, but that sounds even more better
21:29:00 <andreou> madness:
21:29:00 <andreou> checking if building in the top-level or dist directories... yes
21:29:00 <andreou> configure: error: Berkeley DB should not be built in the top-level or dist directories.
21:31:43 <fizzie> iirc gcc wants to be built in a separate directory from the sources too.
21:32:06 <andreou> ah, should not
21:32:11 <andreou> i read "should be"
21:32:36 <andreou> cd docs && ../dist/configure worked
21:32:39 <andreou> i'm not well :-)
21:33:21 <andreou> can anyone comment on the performance of c/gdbm apps?
21:34:59 <toreun> oh, btw, andreou, you are interested in making an #esoteric webpage?
21:35:12 <andreou> yeah
21:35:29 <andreou> and lament told me that cat's eye is definately down, so i'll try to make it a bit more generic
21:35:42 <toreun> yeah... been down for quite awhile
21:35:54 <toreun> happen to know why?
21:35:55 <andreou> heh i was "out" for quite a while as well :-)
21:36:03 <andreou> bah, dunno...
21:37:39 <andreou> thank eris for oswd.org; now i can steal designs and have a clear consciousness
21:38:46 <toreun> I like making my own desigsn
21:38:59 <toreun> I'm not very good at it, but I like doing it all the same
21:39:29 <andreou> i hate web-designing; i can't hack together something more than a minimalistic spit
21:39:38 <andreou> (like my homepage, for example :-) )
21:40:27 <fizzie> my html is always just the logical structure of the document with <hN> and <p> tags, no fancy things like "layout" or stuff.
21:40:55 <toreun> my site's current under-construction design is, IMO, not that bad - it just isn't compatible with browsers that aren't completely standard
21:41:13 <toreun> well, I split up layout and design, so my html is like that too
21:41:16 <andreou> that's exactly what i'm talking about... and it's not good enough for an esolang site
21:41:19 <andreou> hm, or is it... :)
21:41:32 <fizzie> I get the feeling mplayer _has_ to cheat somehow, there's no way it can do all the things I tell it to.
21:42:02 <fizzie> I'm decompressing a 768x576-sized 25fps mpeg2 file (recorded some pal-rated tv), running a horizontal deblocking, vertical deblocking, deringing, linear-blend-deinterlacing and temporal noise reduction filters on the image, then bicubic-resampling the image to 640x480 and compressing it to a 1000kbps mpeg4, while simultaneously mp3-encoding the pcm audio in the video.
21:42:20 <fizzie> and then it says it can do this for 22 frames in a second.
21:43:00 * andreou is sorry for fizzie
21:43:33 <fizzie> the analog tv picture quality here is quite horrible though.
21:48:07 <andreou> ok time to put together some code and create a sucky engine.
21:48:09 -!- andreou has quit ("s.").
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