←2005-08-15 2005-08-16 2005-08-17→ ↑2005 ↑all
00:01:21 <jix> uh and it doesn't work
00:02:35 <jix> mv * #math ^^
00:02:46 <pgimeno> oh, partition counting
00:02:52 <jix> jap
00:07:22 <jix> i don't see why my algorithm doesn't work
00:07:27 <jix> it work's with paper an pencil
00:10:49 <int-e> hmm, what does it do?
00:14:45 <jix> hum
00:15:18 <jix> i have a function helper(n,k) that prints all partitions of n using number <=k
00:15:25 <jix> but it doesn't work
00:15:31 <jix> and i'm telling what i've done in ruby
00:15:45 <jix> i did something different on paper..
00:16:53 <int-e> hmm, it's easier to calculate the partitions of n that use exactly k numbers.
00:17:20 <jix> yes
00:17:20 <int-e> calculate -> count.
00:17:32 <jix> found that on mathworld
00:17:43 <pgimeno> hm
00:18:33 <pgimeno> I got some answers on algorithms for calculating p(n) in sci.math some time ago...
00:19:30 <jix> the triangle of P(n,k) (partition of n with k numbers) looks like: go up 2 + go up 2 go left 1
00:19:37 <jix> but it only looks so
00:19:56 <jix> i should sleep
00:20:04 <int-e> P(n,k) = P(n-1,k-1)+P(n-k,k)
00:20:06 <int-e> :)
00:20:31 <jix> i know
00:20:35 <int-e> the first gives the number of partitions that have a 1, the second one those that don't.
00:20:41 <int-e> I loved it Ö=
00:20:43 <int-e> :)
00:21:10 <jix> german keyboard layout?
00:21:20 <int-e> I'm not at home ;)
00:21:24 <jix> ah
00:23:44 <GregorR> Oooh, Ö is an excellent one-character smiley 8-D
00:24:25 <int-e> ü
00:24:29 <jix> ë
00:24:33 <int-e> hehe
00:24:37 <jix> ÿ
00:25:01 <jix> i can write a ÿ with only 3 keypresses
00:26:47 <int-e> hmm. I don't know if this X server config has a compose key.
00:34:34 <pgimeno> oh, I was wrong; my post was about Landau's function g, not about the number of partitions
00:35:58 <GregorR> I just wrote this ÿ with no keypresses.
00:36:06 <jix> GregorR: copy and paste?
00:36:11 <GregorR> Yup :P
00:36:14 <jix> ctrl-c ctrl-p?
00:36:15 <jix> 4
00:36:20 <GregorR> Of course not!
00:36:21 <GregorR> I'm insulted!
00:36:25 <jix> ok
00:36:27 <GregorR> X11 left-middle
00:36:28 <jix> mouse
00:36:38 <GregorR> ^_^
00:36:44 <jix> but that are 2 mouse clicks
00:36:48 <jix> 1 for selecting 1 for pasting
00:36:50 <pgimeno> easy with unicharmap
00:36:55 <GregorR> Note that I was careful to say "keypresses" :)
00:40:23 <int-e> ok I have three solutions for the #math problem ... that's all with n<1000000.
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02:06:23 * {^Raven^} is a smiley ???
02:06:34 <int-e> yes
02:06:44 <{^Raven^}> intwiggling
02:07:13 <int-e> it has everything, a left face side, {, a left eye, ^, a weird looking nose, Raven, a right eye, ^, and a right face side, }
02:07:26 <int-e> ^o^
02:07:37 <{^Raven^}> erm... they're my wings...
02:08:14 <{^Raven^}> lol
02:08:39 <int-e> hehe.
02:16:37 <int-e> good night
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02:35:20 <puzzlet> taxonomy of smileys?
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18:06:08 <wildhalcyon> Hola!
18:06:13 <lament> hola
18:06:50 <wildhalcyon> Hows it going?
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18:09:06 <wildhalcyon> Bah! I hate my ISP
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18:31:07 <WildHalcyon> Maybe this time I'll actually *stay on*
18:33:00 <lament> probably not.
18:33:22 <WildHalcyon> So far. I switched clients, that might have helped too
18:35:50 <WildHalcyon> Lament, are you an esolang developer?
18:36:52 <lament> I am a professional esolang senior architect
18:37:01 <lament> I work for NASA developing esolangs
18:37:35 <WildHalcyon> Glad to hear it. I bet NASA pays eso-dev senior architects pretty handsomely
18:40:14 <lament> there's also the fame
18:40:24 <lament> the Shuttle computers run software written in my esoteric languages.
18:40:59 <lament> they used Brainfuck before, but they needed something more specific
18:41:48 <WildHalcyon> Yeah, I heard they're trying to blame BF for the tiles breaking off.
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18:42:47 <lament> a stupid claim. Brainfuck never fails.
18:43:36 <WildHalcyon> That's what I thought. You know how it is with those gov't types though.. always wanting to point the finger
18:44:39 <Gs30ng> lol
18:46:14 <WildHalcyon> INTERCAL knows all about DC esolang scandals though, so its not like there's anything new
18:46:15 <Gs30ng> i thought they would program in trefunge to make it easier, like calculating a coordinate to launch the ship by a code cursor
18:46:58 <WildHalcyon> You'd need a pretty big code space to do that with reliable precision, wouldn't you?
18:47:37 <Gs30ng> or would i rather use brainfuck with 3d codespace?
18:48:11 <Gs30ng> like, not only <> but ^v and /\ or something
18:48:16 <WildHalcyon> Has anyone written a 3D bf derivative? I didn't see anything on the wiki
18:48:19 <Gs30ng> oops my mistake
18:48:30 <Gs30ng> i meant 3d memory space, not code space
18:49:25 <Gs30ng> WildHalcyon, there's definitely one with 2D, like with <> and ^v, but i have no idea with 3D one
18:49:44 <WildHalcyon> 3D memory space huh? A cube instead of a tape?
18:49:51 <WildHalcyon> Ive seen SNUSP, I love it too!
18:51:15 <Gs30ng> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Hcbf
18:51:26 <Gs30ng> 4D brainfuck variant, i think
18:51:41 <WildHalcyon> good point
18:51:58 <lament> time cube
18:52:03 <WildHalcyon> I haven't had a chance to fiddle with that yet...
18:53:30 <WildHalcyon> Neither have I had a chance to try out the Funge-98 TOYS fingerprint, which regardless of use, has some great names
18:54:16 <WildHalcyon> (Sorry, that was OT, but I was looking at it at the time. Today, I have the attention span of a chiuahua)
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18:57:17 <WildHalcyon> Seriously though, are either of you working on any languages?
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18:58:38 <Gs30ng> well i used to design a stupid esolang when i was newbie...
18:58:47 <WildHalcyon> Im just curious, not for any particular reason.
18:58:51 <Gs30ng> if you wish i'll show the spec
18:58:52 <WildHalcyon> Why was it stupid?
18:58:56 <WildHalcyon> yeah
18:59:04 <Gs30ng> it is just... inefficient
18:59:32 <Gs30ng> http://gs30ng.exca.net/udage/spec-en.xml
19:00:42 <WildHalcyon> cool, thanks! I'll take a look at it
19:02:34 <WildHalcyon> I was working on an esolang a while ago too, but decided to get back in it again recently
19:03:45 <WildHalcyon> I had a bit of a stumbling block, and Im almost finished with the specification.
19:04:01 <Gs30ng> interesting
19:04:27 <WildHalcyon> I remember reading about Udage.. it does look inefficient, but most esolangs are ;-)
19:04:52 <Gs30ng> i mean that i could make the spec shorter and clearer
19:04:59 <WildHalcyon> I like the fact that its more of a pattern-matcher than using specific characters
19:05:31 <Gs30ng> well look
19:05:37 <Gs30ng> i got NOT and conditional jump
19:05:42 <WildHalcyon> You probably could, but again - its esoteric. Shorter might not be possible, but clearer would be nice.
19:05:44 <Gs30ng> then i don't need NAND
19:06:06 <Gs30ng> i can make it with NOT and conditional jump things
19:06:25 <Gs30ng> i don't need any complicated operation like NANDN1
19:06:36 <Gs30ng> that's why i call it inefficient
19:07:30 <Gs30ng> or i could make it MORE complicated like harder than Malbolge to understand
19:08:11 <WildHalcyon> Well, keep working on it. I don't like complex just for the sake of being complex. I like "quirky, see what you can do with this"
19:08:15 <Gs30ng> but currently it's not clear or complicated. like... halfway?
19:08:34 <Gs30ng> i agree to that
19:09:05 <WildHalcyon> Malbolge ended up being quirky once someone figured out how to work with it, and it turns out that it does interesting things.
19:09:29 <WildHalcyon> Before that, I wasn't too interested in it, because it was designed to be awful
19:10:44 <Gs30ng> i still don't even understand what it is
19:11:36 <WildHalcyon> Its an evil evil language, all you really need to know unless you want to try to program in it.
19:13:39 <Gs30ng> well that's one of the core design goals in esolang
19:14:25 <WildHalcyon> Perhaps. I really look at esolangs as 3 schools of languages: EVIL, novel, and jokes
19:14:39 <Gs30ng> and i also want to design a lang like that, turing-complete but takes several years to make a 'Hello World!' program
19:15:16 <jix> oh that's simple
19:15:19 <WildHalcyon> Like LazyK?
19:15:30 <jix> i made a lazy k hello world
19:15:42 <jix> lazy k is very simple to programm
19:15:47 <jix> i made 99bob in lazy k too
19:15:59 <WildHalcyon> I've seen the code for that... its.. er... messy
19:16:00 <WildHalcyon> lol
19:16:24 <jix> WildHalcyon: it comes with a code generating tool
19:16:39 <jix> you just write a lambda term and it converts it into SKI combinators
19:16:42 <WildHalcyon> oh, I wasn't aware of that. Well, that changes things
19:16:44 <jix> it's messy to do that by hand
19:16:50 <jix> it's possible (and i know how)
19:17:06 <jix> but it takes minutes for simple terms like \xyz.xzy
19:17:42 <WildHalcyon> Ive wanted to design a Java2K-Befunge varient that occassionally switched the cursor orientation randomly. I guess I could just implement that with fingerprints
19:17:43 <Gs30ng> well we hardly can make an esolang code without any tools
19:18:13 <Gs30ng> but there ARE, who do that
19:18:15 <Gs30ng> :(
19:18:24 <WildHalcyon> Yeah, tools are key
19:18:47 <WildHalcyon> Well, only if you want to do a large project with them
19:19:36 <jix> i have an idea for a turing complete language and it will take hours to generate the first cat programm and years for the first hello world programm
19:20:17 <jix> sha1 each sizeof(sha1) bytes and do => 0 => [ 1=> ]...
19:20:18 <Gs30ng> from now on don't even mention of it for world peace
19:20:25 <jix> and execute it as BF
19:20:28 <Gs30ng> ...sha1
19:20:48 <Gs30ng> that is presented once, like MaD5
19:24:22 <WildHalcyon> Im not a huge Turing-Tarpit fan
19:24:44 <Gs30ng> I am
19:24:55 <WildHalcyon> BF is great, because its a fundamental esolang tool (most languages prove they're TC by using BF)
19:25:39 <Gs30ng> that makes sense
19:25:50 <Gs30ng> although i'd rather do it using TM
19:26:12 <WildHalcyon> Anyhow, Gs30ng, good luck with improving Udage! Ive gotta go!
19:26:16 <WildHalcyon> bbl
19:26:34 <Gs30ng> see ya
20:00:39 <GregorR> I think it's preferable to use BF as your intermediary rather than a true TM because BF is very VERY easy to read and parse.
20:40:30 <pgimeno> that opens an interesting question... what TC language is the easiest to parse?
20:41:11 <pgimeno> (easiest is a matter of intuition)
20:42:46 <pgimeno> in Brainfuck the forward/backward loop matching imposes an inherent difficulty
20:42:59 <pgimeno> perhaps OISC is simpler than BF
20:45:21 <Gs30ng> what TC language is the easiest to parse... perhaps non-esoteric lang is
20:45:32 <Gs30ng> but probably turing tarpit is
21:02:24 <lament> pgJon, of course
21:05:43 <lament> what the hell
21:05:50 <lament> pgimeno: Jot, of course
21:06:00 <lament> alternatively;
21:06:13 <lament> a variant of brainfuck:
21:06:34 <lament> instead of [ some code, N characters ]
21:06:38 <lament> write
21:06:58 <lament> [[[[[ (N times) [[[ some code
21:07:06 <lament> N opening brackets, then the code
21:07:35 <lament> first, that gets rid of an instruction, which is nice already
21:07:44 <lament> second, any string becomes a valid BF program
21:08:03 <pgimeno> sorry, I should have said to parse and interpret
21:10:32 <lament> this depends on what language your interpreter is written in
21:10:51 <lament> lambda-calculus based languages are easy to interpret in other lambda-calculus based languages
21:12:57 <pgimeno> easier than oisc?
21:14:14 <lament> oisc is pretty hard to interpret in lambda-calculus based languages
21:17:35 <Gs30ng> really?
21:18:07 <pgimeno> well, I was hoping to reach some kind of an "universal" agreement on what is "easiest" in this context but it seems not to be so easy
21:18:33 <pgimeno> Gs30ng: yes, there's usually no concept of an "array" as such
21:19:21 <jix> only functions
21:19:24 <Gs30ng> i think in this case you should make it clear like this: easiest to interpret in our brains
21:20:11 <pgimeno> "easiest to interpret in certain of the commonly used languages" would probably be more precise
21:20:38 <Gs30ng> then it is oisc
21:20:50 <lament> um
21:21:08 <lament> in our brains, heh heh
21:21:11 <pgimeno> but then again, what is easier: to write a conditional that tests the negativity, or to write the functions of lambda calculus?
21:22:10 <pgimeno> it's too philosophical a question, anyway
21:23:39 <lament> no, just subjective
21:24:45 <Gs30ng> things like OOP concept is sometimes considered subjective
21:29:03 <WildHalcyon> Hey, did I miss anything exciting?
21:29:42 <jix> hmm
21:30:04 <WildHalcyon> lambda calculus and parsing BF... well.. thats sort of exciting
21:30:08 <Gs30ng> they seem not to be exciting
21:30:38 <Gs30ng> like, pretty important subject but i'm not *excited* :)
21:30:52 <Gs30ng> but this is also subjective
21:31:38 <WildHalcyon> well, subjective is okay
21:32:06 <jix> i'd like to have a geometrical lang
21:32:07 <Gs30ng> i haven't fully used lambda
21:32:17 <jix> where you build the program out of geometric objects
21:32:26 <jix> like circle line polygon...
21:32:31 <jix> ellipse
21:32:40 <Gs30ng> sounds awesome
21:33:17 <Gs30ng> code should describe a vector image, right?
21:33:18 <jix> hmm but how could such a program work...
21:33:23 <jix> yes
21:34:23 <Gs30ng> i think the graph theory would help
21:35:03 <Gs30ng> but actually there are already some langs with it
21:35:13 <jix> polygons are instructions...
21:35:13 <WildHalcyon> Ive seen some flow chart languages
21:35:21 <jix> lines are code-flow
21:35:38 <jix> WildHalcyon: yes but they arn't 100% of simple geometric objects
21:35:52 <GregorR> Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuse RXML :P
21:35:56 <jix> circles could be used as control structures
21:36:02 <WildHalcyon> That's true, they're not
21:36:03 <jix> GregorR: problem
21:36:11 <jix> RXML doesn't support vector images
21:36:11 <Gs30ng> RXML would be an answer
21:36:13 <GregorR> Way too difficult to parse shapes?
21:36:16 <Gs30ng> really?
21:36:26 <GregorR> SVG would be good.
21:36:33 <jix> noo SVG is unesoteric
21:36:42 <GregorR> lol
21:36:47 <pgimeno> is it?
21:36:52 <WildHalcyon> You could make a language entirely out of ellipses, where each rational a/b mapped to an instruction
21:36:54 <jix> i'm going to invent a cryptic syntax for the vector graphics...
21:37:04 <Gs30ng> lol
21:37:05 <pgimeno> I get esoteric results when I use it, it must be esoteric
21:37:09 <WildHalcyon> Jix: What about using bezier curves?
21:37:31 <jix> WildHalcyon: hmm i think circle polygon and line are enough
21:37:31 <Gs30ng> jix: what if the polygons overlap each other
21:37:52 <pgimeno> a line is a 2-face poligon isn't it?
21:37:59 <pgimeno> polygon even
21:38:04 <WildHalcyon> Jix: use bezier curves for the lines - that way you can use lines OTHER than straight lines
21:38:22 <jix> WildHalcyon: you can connect multiple lines
21:38:31 <jix> but i need to have a direction for a line...
21:38:45 <Gs30ng> the space not should be 2 dimensional
21:38:53 <jix> Gs30ng: it should
21:38:56 <WildHalcyon> Well, however you implement it. Its your language after all ;-
21:40:08 <Gs30ng> jix: then how can you connect 2 polygons which locates like, unable to be connected by straight line
21:40:40 <Gs30ng> like there are some big polygons between them
21:41:35 <jix> Gs30ng: you can chain lines
21:42:00 <jix> and using circle control structures you can implement crossings
21:42:01 <Gs30ng> that would work
21:42:34 <WildHalcyon> It might be easiest to use a null polygon (0 sides) for a NOP, to implement between two connecting lines to go around corners in that case
21:42:37 * jix is _drawing_ a spec
21:42:53 <Gs30ng> lol
21:43:33 <jix> Gs30ng: no but the behavior is undefined
21:43:41 <Gs30ng> or overlapped polygons could be another operation
21:43:58 <jix> Gs30ng: no overlapping circles give different control structures
21:44:08 <jix> but overlapping polygons give undefined behavior
21:45:05 <Gs30ng> a code with only overlapped figures
21:45:18 <Gs30ng> would seem truly esoteric
21:46:55 <jix> away
21:49:55 <Gs30ng> lines could seem a polygon
21:51:07 <Gs30ng> like, 3 lines connects 3 triangles, seem 4 triangle
21:59:55 <jix> Gs30ng: lines polygons and circles have different colors in source-view
22:00:21 <Gs30ng> well then i should make another lang
22:00:28 <Gs30ng> i want to have it monotone
22:02:57 <jix> i have a pretty cool file format
22:03:09 <jix> i have to complete it...
22:03:54 <Gs30ng> oh i have a question
22:03:58 <Gs30ng> what's that source-view
22:04:23 <Gs30ng> you mean you're gonna make an IDE?
22:04:26 <jix> the source format is a text document
22:04:42 <jix> but i'm going to display the source code graphically
22:05:06 <Gs30ng> oh, ok.
22:07:19 <WildHalcyon> I think I need to use either rtf, html, or a combined txt + bmp for my esolang.
22:07:37 <jix> WildHalcyon: make your own format
22:07:54 <WildHalcyon> I will eventually. Once I work on building the IDE
22:08:06 <Gs30ng> yes making a format it's easy
22:08:17 <Gs30ng> like you're to make a bitmap format then
22:08:22 <Gs30ng> format c: bitmap
22:09:08 <WildHalcyon> I'll probably include a conversion utility as well - to go between the proprietary format and the other formats
22:11:12 <Gs30ng> question: is there any conversion library for swf format?
22:11:38 <WildHalcyon> possibly to postscript?
22:12:02 <jix> my file format:
22:12:03 <jix> 'ST0P' => Header (thats a zero in stop)
22:12:03 <jix> 'O' x r y => Circle at x/y with radius r
22:12:03 <jix> 'P' points{3+} => Polygon with at least 3 points
22:12:03 <jix> 'p' y z => Polygon point
22:12:03 <jix> 'L' y2 x x2 y => line from x/y => x2/y2 (x/y swapped with x2/y2 is equivalent)
22:12:05 <jix> number are in base -5 using 'q' as 0, 'w' as 1, 'e' as 2, and '@' as 4. numbers end with a 'r' and use 't' as decimal point
22:12:08 <jix> 'X' comment => comment (you may use characters 's' 'd' and '.' for comments)
22:12:10 <jix> 'STRAT' => EOF (yes it's not a typo its STRAT instead of START)
22:12:31 <jix> the comment feature is pretty useless
22:14:39 <Gs30ng> not 'O' x y r but 'O' x r y ?
22:14:56 <jix> jap
22:15:18 <jix> its 'L' y2 x x2 y ..
22:15:37 <GregorR> I love the comment feature XD
22:15:44 <GregorR> Xsd....dsdddd...sd
22:15:48 <jix> hrhr
22:16:29 <jix> the field is from -1,-1 to 1,1
22:16:35 <jix> but numbers have no sign
22:16:38 <jix> they use base -5
22:17:19 <Gs30ng> so the order is deliberately weird, to make it esoteric, right?
22:18:03 <jix> right
22:18:12 <Gs30ng> jesus
22:18:24 <Gs30ng> i love it
22:18:42 <WildHalcyon> Its hideously evil in a delightful way
22:18:54 <jix> let's try to make a circle at point -1x 1y with radius 0.5
22:19:03 <GregorR> Oh Lord, Christ and Savior Jesus, may your holy glory bring peace to the lives of those less fortunate, and those who write esoteric languages, amen.
22:19:36 <Gs30ng> In the beginning there was INTERCAL...
22:19:41 <GregorR> XD
22:19:51 <GregorR> And God said it was good.
22:19:52 <WildHalcyon> Im not used to using negative bases (Ive heard of them, but.. never tried implementing them)
22:20:35 <WildHalcyon> he did? I thought after INTERCAZL, he had a stiff drink and took 2 1/2 months off and thats why we celebrate summer vacation?
22:20:40 <WildHalcyon> *INTERCAL
22:21:12 <jix> grr negative bases are evil
22:21:23 <WildHalcyon> You could always use the golden ratio base
22:21:24 <WildHalcyon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_mean_base
22:21:41 <jix> yeah but that's not as safe as base -5
22:22:07 <WildHalcyon> hm.. safe, yeah that's important if your language ever ends up on the shuttle like lament's
22:23:38 <jix> afk
22:25:04 <Gs30ng> NASA guys are calling him by period to ask some questions about the spaceship air supplying system written in bf
22:26:40 <Gs30ng> a ']' is missing in the code so air supplying works for only few seconds
22:27:37 <Gs30ng> jix wrapped the whole code with [] and it appeared to work as well
22:27:44 <WildHalcyon> Hmmm, they should get that fixed. Any certified BF.NET techs here?
22:28:31 <Gs30ng> but now the system resets itself continuously
22:29:02 <GregorR> *checking door panels* *doors open* *doors close (well after the astronauts have been flung into space)* *reactivating oxygen*
22:29:23 <Gs30ng> lol
22:29:41 <GregorR> And two loud POPs are (not) heard as the astronauts explode.
22:29:49 <GregorR> Then they're mad at jix, what a tragedy!
22:29:49 <WildHalcyon> lol
22:30:03 <WildHalcyon> I hope he's not fired
22:30:29 <Gs30ng> They can't fire him because they never hired him
22:31:29 <Gs30ng> as a professional esolang developer, jix was kidnapped by nasa guys and forced to design the system in bf
22:31:57 <WildHalcyon> ...! Esolang slavery!
22:32:09 * Gs30ng pays one minute's silent tribute
22:34:55 <WildHalcyon> poor Jix
22:35:23 <Gs30ng> actually in 90's, the system was written in Malbolge, designed by GregorR
22:35:44 <GregorR> (The system that enslaved jix that is :P)
22:35:52 <GregorR> I call it MalSlave.
22:37:53 <Gs30ng> GregorR wrote it in 3 minutes 27 seconds, and distributed it in open source, nasa took it
22:38:40 <Gs30ng> after several years nasa needed some new code for new modules, however no one but jix understood the code
22:38:54 <Gs30ng> that's why he've been kidnapped
22:39:06 <GregorR> Instead of me for some inexplicable reason :P
22:39:53 <Gs30ng> death is inexplicable, right
22:40:05 <Gs30ng> uh, aren't you dead GregorR?
22:40:23 -!- GregorR has changed nick to GregorR-OHNOAZOM.
22:40:34 -!- GregorR-OHNOAZOM has changed nick to ItsAZombie.
22:40:44 <ItsAZombie> Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiins...
22:41:29 -!- ItsAZombie has changed nick to GregorR.
22:42:03 <WildHalcyon> Brains huh? What part?
22:42:26 <WildHalcyon> I've got a few lobes, a medulla, and then there's my spinal cord.
22:45:08 <jix> they learned to not kidnap crazy people MUHUAHAHAHAHAHAH!
22:45:25 <WildHalcyon> that'll teach them
22:45:27 <Gs30ng> but they are crazy
22:45:44 <jix> mounting Sauerbraten.dmg
22:46:01 <jix> sauerbraten has to be a cool game
22:46:14 <Gs30ng> what does dmg stands for
22:46:19 <jix> it's written by wouter
22:46:23 <Gs30ng> s/stands/stand
22:46:25 <jix> Disk iMaGe
22:46:29 <Gs30ng> aha
22:46:39 <jix> every 2nd osx software comes as dmg
22:46:57 <jix> sauerbraten is from wouter (the one who wrote false)
22:47:17 <jix> http://sauerbraten.org/
22:47:21 <Gs30ng> one who wrote false wrote a game?
22:47:25 <WildHalcyon> Wouter is legendary
22:47:27 <jix> yes
22:47:34 <jix> WildHalcyon: i know someone who knows wouter
22:47:45 <Gs30ng> OMG
22:48:13 <Gs30ng> i don't even want to contact anyone who knows who knows wouter
22:48:18 <jix> he's called Tim Schröder
22:48:19 <Gs30ng> i don't wanna be kidnapped
22:48:23 <WildHalcyon> I know someone who knows someone who knows wouter... err.. thats you, btw
22:48:49 <jix> WildHalcyon: i talk about real-life knowing
22:49:10 <WildHalcyon> hmm.. yeah, thats different I guess
22:49:28 <Gs30ng> wouter doesn't sound like an actual person... like, consist with only source code
22:49:38 <jix> both wouter and tim worked at crytek
22:49:48 <jix> Gs30ng: it's his realname
22:50:13 <Gs30ng> that lab researches how to cry?
22:50:20 <Gs30ng> what am i talking about
22:50:37 * Gs30ng reboots his brain
22:51:09 <WildHalcyon> He should have wrote sauerbraten in False
22:51:17 <Gs30ng> lol
22:51:50 <Gs30ng> Wouter van Oortmerssen. sounds really typical guru name. like Guido van Rossum or something
22:52:53 <kipple> if by guru you mean dutch, then yeah ;)
22:53:38 <Gs30ng> Oh, is it dutch? not german or something?
22:53:45 <jix> dutch
22:53:50 <jix> but i'm german
22:54:05 <kipple> van = dutch, von = german
22:54:38 <jix> yes but von * in german isn't as common as van in dutch
22:54:43 <jix> afaik
22:55:26 <kipple> doesn't von in german usually indicate nobility or something (at least in the past)?
22:55:37 <Gs30ng> now i see a few dutch person in computer science
22:55:43 <jix> yes
22:55:57 <Gs30ng> but haven't seen any Korean in this field
22:57:20 <WildHalcyon> Ive known a few korean cs majors back in school
22:57:48 <Gs30ng> maybe they're all kidnapped by nasa
22:58:35 <WildHalcyon> I was kidnapped by NASA, but they let me go because I was useless
22:58:49 <jix> who wasn't kidnapped by NASA
22:58:54 <Gs30ng> they only need some esoteric programmers
22:59:38 <GregorR> *sniff sniff*
22:59:41 <GregorR> I wasn't kidnapped by NASA
22:59:50 * GregorR feels left out.
23:00:02 <Gs30ng> because no one can kidnap a dead man
23:00:14 <GregorR> ..is that a challenge? :P
23:00:15 <Gs30ng> i feel really sorry about that
23:00:44 <kipple> GregorR: are you dead?
23:01:08 <Gs30ng> i'm not gonna challenge you. i
23:01:14 <GregorR> Technically, UNdead, in that I resurrected to feast on the entrails of the living, but I'm not alive in the common sense *shrugs*
23:01:18 <Gs30ng> i'm not gonna be malslaved
23:02:38 <GregorR> Anybody want to help with my MUD engine?
23:02:50 <GregorR> Suggestion-wise, that is.
23:03:19 <kipple> an engine that runs on mud? sounds good :) when can I get it for my car?
23:03:30 <jix> GregorR: you're going to implement it in ??
23:03:48 <GregorR> C++ - sorry, it not not esoteric-related :P
23:03:56 <Gs30ng> kipple: spends ridiculously much mud
23:04:11 <jix> GregorR: do a -- please.. i don't know c++
23:04:16 <jix> *g*
23:04:24 <Gs30ng> useless, yet
23:04:32 <jix> or use something else i know
23:04:39 <GregorR> lol
23:04:42 <jix> like ruby
23:04:50 <jix> or.. apple-script
23:05:03 <GregorR> While ruby would be quite appropriate for a MUD, I'll stick to C++ thank-you-very-much :P
23:05:04 <jix> or 1802 assembler
23:05:17 <jix> or arm asm
23:05:24 <jix> or ppc asm
23:05:24 <kipple> ORK!!
23:05:35 <jix> or any asm that is not crappy-x86-asm
23:05:44 <jix> x86 asm is ugly
23:05:53 <Gs30ng> you do asm
23:05:55 <Gs30ng> impressive
23:06:00 <jix> Gs30ng: a bit
23:06:10 <jix> but i don't do x86 asm
23:06:20 <GregorR> Pff, RISC-junky
23:06:37 <GregorR> All the cool kids (read: lazy) use CISC.
23:06:41 <jix> because it's like uh we need 32 bit add this and that.. oh we need this do a little work-around
23:06:54 <jix> GregorR: define RISC and CISC
23:07:24 <jix> i just looked at x86 asm it it was ugly...
23:07:29 <GregorR> CISC: x86, x86-64, ia64 RISC: virtually everything else ever
23:07:48 <GregorR> Well, not "ever"
23:07:52 <GregorR> But "in common use"
23:08:09 <GregorR> Anyway, back to work :P
23:08:10 <jix> GregorR: and where is the difference at the asm level?
23:08:38 <jix> m86k asm is ok afaik and it's cisc
23:08:59 <jix> but x86asm is as old as m86k just with a lot of work arounds and additions to make it up to date...
23:09:30 <jix> arm assembler is pretty cool with the condition codes
23:09:45 <jix> but i don't know arm asm anymore.. stopped gba development...
23:11:18 <jix> i wan't to do asm programming BUT
23:11:32 <jix> i don't want to use ppc assembler because apple switches to x86 soon
23:11:40 <jix> i don't want to do x86 asm because its UGLY
23:12:45 <jix> i wan't to do arm asm but not for the gba.. and not for the ipod.. i need another arm machine
23:12:55 <jix> NO i want to design my own cpu with my own asm!
23:13:44 <jix> anyone around?
23:14:34 <jix> GregorR: ?
23:16:32 <jix> GREGORR
23:17:13 <WildHalcyon> call me ignorant, but whats mud? aside from.. y'know.. wet dirt
23:17:46 <jix> multi user dungeon
23:17:49 -!- kipple has left (?).
23:17:51 <WildHalcyon> OHHHH
23:17:54 <WildHalcyon> good deal
23:18:14 <WildHalcyon> hmm... 3D?
23:19:30 <jix> arn't muds text-based?
23:19:41 <jix> GregorR: !?!
23:20:00 <WildHalcyon> Are they? I thought you meant something like multi-player Dungeon Siege.
23:20:37 <jix> i thought i meant something like the muds where you use telnet to connect to mud.*...
23:21:58 <jix> GRÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄGORR!
23:23:10 <jix> he doesn't answer :(
23:23:22 <WildHalcyon> That's a shame
23:23:39 <WildHalcyon> Now I'll have to develop my own balanced-nonary befunge varient
23:24:52 <Gs30ng> didn't GregorR got back to work?
23:25:14 <jix> is that a reason to not answer?!
23:27:37 <Gs30ng> lol
23:35:02 <GregorR> Haha, I disappear.
23:35:12 <GregorR> Yes, it is, because I VNC into home.
23:35:34 <GregorR> So when I go back to work, I close my VNC window.
23:35:48 <jix> then don't go back to work
23:35:52 <GregorR> lol
23:35:59 <GregorR> Who does work anyway *shrugs*
23:36:06 <jix> i don't
23:36:41 <GregorR> But anyway, I'm writing it because of an itch and a few pet peeves.
23:36:44 <WildHalcyon> What type of work does a flesh devouring zombie DO exactly?
23:37:04 <GregorR> For instance, most MUDs don't have a sky except when convenient, making "fly" spells worthless.
23:37:21 <WildHalcyon> and could you clarify the MUD implementation? Is it text-based or graphical?
23:37:30 <GregorR> Text-based.
23:37:34 <WildHalcyon> ok
23:37:40 <jix> WildHalcyon: pwnd hrhr^^
23:37:43 * WildHalcyon is ignorant on the subject
23:38:01 * WildHalcyon was pwned
23:38:28 <GregorR> Also, anyone who uses the term "pwnd" in my MUD engine will find their character mysteriously dead.
23:38:40 <GregorR> :P
23:39:22 <jix> hrhr
23:40:16 <GregorR> What I mostly need are design suggestions - pet peeves about current MUD designes.
23:40:24 <GregorR> Designs, even.
23:40:48 <GregorR> (The engines that is, not the games)
23:41:50 <jix> i don't know much about muds
23:42:02 <jix> i don't know anything about muds
23:42:22 <WildHalcyon> I haven't played a MUD in years. And I like the idea of punishing players who use stale l33t speak
23:42:30 <GregorR> And you don't know C++ :P
23:42:48 <GregorR> (That was to jix)
23:43:13 <jix> GregorR: i know it a bit
23:43:25 <jix> i know C and i know OOP
23:43:33 <jix> and i know a very little bit C++
23:43:57 <WildHalcyon> "PlayerFoo: Hah! You got pwned!" => "The sky god Y'jmal's wrath has been angered." => "You awaken in your own filth"
23:44:02 <GregorR> Well, I don't heavily use any of the incredibly C++-specific features, just classes and inheritance and maps.
23:44:18 <jix> maps?
23:44:27 <jix> i don't know the c++ syntax for OOP things
23:44:40 <jix> what are maps?
23:45:11 <jix> GregorR: maps? help me i don't know them!
23:45:56 <jix> a mud should have weather... weather is important
23:46:43 <Gs30ng> NASA seriously cares the weather
23:49:34 <jix> i don't know c++ maps
23:50:46 <jix> ah stl maps?
23:51:17 <jix> wait no that's something different i thought of
23:52:45 <jix> it's like a ruby hash?
23:53:06 <jix> {:a=>:b,:c=>:d,:d=>:d,:e=>nil}?
23:53:16 <WildHalcyon> Ah, the good old STL
23:53:25 <WildHalcyon> how I loathe thee with every ounce of being
23:53:38 <jix> hm?
23:53:54 <GregorR> Sorry, had to hit the boss alarm.
23:54:02 <jix> hrhr
23:54:07 <GregorR> map = hash (essentially)
23:54:10 <jix> a mud client should have a boss alarm key
23:54:17 <GregorR> map<string, int> = hash of strings->int
23:54:30 <GregorR> jix: That brings up a fake bash shell with curious output on it? :)
23:54:42 <jix> if a user presses it the client plays a loud sound "I'M PLAYING AT WORK!!! FIRE ME!"
23:54:50 <GregorR> lol
23:54:59 <jix> hrhr
23:55:10 <jix> no fake bash is ok
23:55:19 <jix> that could be server side too
23:55:41 <GregorR> Part of the challenge is to make sure that telnet is a valid client :P
23:56:08 <GregorR> brb (again)
23:56:32 <WildHalcyon> Im working on an esolang RPG project
23:56:40 <jix> WildHalcyon: lang?
23:56:56 <WildHalcyon> Its my own varient of Befunge
23:57:11 <jix> how do you do graphics?
23:57:25 <WildHalcyon> I haven't uploaded a spec or anything, because I don't have the instruction syntax done
23:57:41 <WildHalcyon> Its console based, a roguelike game.
23:57:45 <WildHalcyon> http://www.roguelikedevelopment.org/
23:58:55 <jix> ah roquelike.. they are infinite cool
23:59:19 <jix> and i died the infinite stupidest way at nethack
23:59:46 <WildHalcyon> I die a lot playing Crawl. Usually on the first or 2nd level. I've had two characters make it to the 5th.
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