←2007-10-14 2007-10-15 2007-10-16→ ↑2007 ↑all
00:38:33 * SimonRC goes to bed
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05:45:36 <Atalanta> hi
05:45:38 <Atalanta> http://rafb.net/p/3bSZ7t31.html =D
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15:14:29 <SimonRC> Atalanta: Isee a bug
15:14:45 <SimonRC> characters aren't supposed to be output with a newline each time
15:14:57 <Atalanta> yeah i fixed that and something else but didnt upload
15:15:02 <Atalanta> but thanks for looking =D
15:15:32 <SimonRC> and what is this if (var[ptr]) == '\\n') var[ptr] = 0;
15:21:03 <Atalanta> i was trying to get rid of the extra \10 thats on the end of each line press, but allow enter (\10) to be pressed by itself and count as \0
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15:22:38 <SimonRC> I think the extra NL is supposed to be there
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16:15:09 <oklopol> does there happen to be a 2d string rewriting language?
16:15:42 <oklopol> i made one just now, it seems
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16:18:30 <Atalanta> show m
16:19:17 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p144462122.txt
16:19:30 <Atalanta> and what is it?
16:19:35 <oklopol> run that and you'll see a turtle moving across the screen :P
16:19:50 <Atalanta> in what compiler/interpreter
16:20:11 <oklopol> you have a list of substitutions, and a 2d character map
16:20:18 <oklopol> substitutions are done randomly to the map
16:20:22 <oklopol> python
16:24:18 <SimonRC> those rules overlap
16:24:21 <SimonRC> what happens then
16:24:37 <oklopol> random rule is always picked
16:24:40 <oklopol> just like in thue
16:24:48 <oklopol> well, not random, unspecified
16:25:14 <oklopol> actually, i think i'll specify it'll always be as random as possible,, whatever that means :P
16:25:22 <oklopol> *-,
16:25:47 <oklopol> the point of that was to demonstrate the random movement
16:27:40 <oklopol> someone who has any thue intuition, wanna tell me if that's easier of harder to program?
16:27:58 <oklopol> thue allows the "from" string to be of different length than "to"
16:28:14 <oklopol> i couldn't do that, or the result would no longer have been ascii-printable
16:28:49 <oklopol> since anything that changes size, but does not use the whole width/height of the map destroys the rectangle, of course
16:29:06 <oklopol> so there's no actual trivial thue isomorphism
16:29:21 <oklopol> although i'm fairly sure thue is tc without that feature.
16:29:30 <oklopol> hard to say, never made anything in it...
16:31:40 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p626434225.txt PLACE YOUR BETS NOW!
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16:39:21 <SimonRC> oklopol: heh
16:40:02 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p631111521.txt this looks so great with the new version http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p316314631.txt where you can make the delay smaller
16:40:18 <oklopol> i'm do gonna make a circular racetrack!
16:40:39 <oklopol> ...quite pathetic testing tbh :P
16:40:42 <oklopol> *i'm so
16:44:31 <SimonRC> what is this thing called?
16:52:54 <SimonRC> and I lack Tkinter
16:53:13 <oklopol> this language? hmm, i have no idea :|
16:53:20 <oklopol> oh my god this is gonna be great xD
16:53:33 <oklopol> get Tkinter, and you shall soon see my unbelivably cool race track :P
16:54:06 <oklopol> (and no, it's not gonna be great, but OMG RACETRACK)
16:54:47 <GregorR> People actually /use/ Tkinter?
16:54:59 <oklopol> i do
16:55:09 <oklopol> i don't know anything else
16:55:18 <GregorR> I thought it was included as a cruel joke to trap new Pythoners.
16:55:27 <oklopol> hehe, it's pretty buggy :)
16:55:48 <oklopol> but better have a few bugs than having to download libraries
16:55:50 <GregorR> It's also Tk. Even if it was bug-free, it would still be Tk.
16:56:16 <GregorR> Like gets, the man page should say "Never use Tkinter." under BUGS.
16:56:33 <oklopol> actually crashed just now, i almost lost my racetrack :P
17:05:03 <oklopol> hmm, got pretty slow after once i made the whole track complete :<
17:05:15 <oklopol> i guess i need to do some optimization to see them squrry merrily again
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17:08:55 <oklopol> wow second round already!
17:09:00 <oklopol> "round"
17:26:40 <SimonRC> I actually said "What the fuck?!" to today's DailyWTF (the division one)
17:26:43 <SimonRC> wow
17:28:25 <oklopol> haha, i actually realized my language is trivially *not* tc
17:28:33 <oklopol> in fact so trivially i'm pretty much lolling at myself :)
17:29:20 <oklopol> you'd think after assessing the universality of about 100 languages, you'd start noticing the trivial fact that a language does not have infinitely extendable memory...
17:31:28 <GregorR> Eh, that's a minor fault.
17:32:02 <GregorR> SimonRC: I'm not positive, but I don't think that division function is even going to come out with the correct result ... /ever/ ...
17:33:01 <SimonRC> yup
17:33:11 <GregorR> Yeah, it turns 2/1 into 13/11 >_>
17:33:19 <GregorR> Erm, 13/12 rather
17:33:23 <SimonRC> such a WTF
17:33:35 <GregorR> it r brillant
17:33:56 <SimonRC> I think it is based on the principle that (a+c)/(b+c)=a/b
17:34:00 <oklopol> wanna suggest me a way to extend that?
17:34:34 <GregorR> SimonRC: Right ... now if only that was true ...
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17:38:28 <oklopol> hey, i have an idea, what if the rightmost character would be automatically repeated infinitely to the right, the leftmost to the left, etc.?
17:38:37 <oklopol> great idea, oklopol
17:38:44 <oklopol> thank me
17:38:49 <oklopol> i'm welcome
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17:51:22 <SimonRC> GregorR: :-)
18:02:57 <oklopol> making game of life happen is a bit harder than i assumed... i didn't realize i need a separate case for each possible combination of neighbors xD
18:06:31 <oklopol> okay, this is impossible :P
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18:32:32 <RodgerTheGreat> hi everyone
18:33:43 <oerjan> hallo
18:33:58 <RodgerTheGreat> 'sup, oerjan?
18:34:14 * RodgerTheGreat is listening to When She Cries by Andy McKee from Art Of Motion
18:34:19 <RodgerTheGreat> this CD is fantastic
18:35:17 <oerjan> not much, just logged on 18 mins before you
18:38:22 * oklopol wonders if he should've calculated the number of different patterns in gol before starting to implement them manually as needed...
18:38:55 <oklopol> it's more than in normal gol, since i need to take into account the direction my pointer is moving, and the fact i need to delay last steps...
18:39:02 <oklopol> prolly exactly twice more...
18:39:17 * oerjan guesses that gol has a googol different patterns
18:39:17 <oklopol> too tired to calculate, i'll continue hacking them in manually ->
18:39:31 <oklopol> game of life, though :P
18:40:01 * oerjan calls the acronym police
18:47:54 <oklopol> noooo this is my third offence :<
18:49:44 <RodgerTheGreat> lol
18:52:00 <oerjan> you may have your license revoked then, and have to write everything in full
18:53:26 <oklopol> this will soon be the longest program i've ever written manually.
18:53:40 <oklopol> this language is so great...
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18:56:59 <RodgerTheGreat> oklopol: how long are we talking?
18:57:42 <bsmntbombdood> SUPA LONG
18:57:51 <bsmntbombdood> /logreads
18:58:12 <oerjan> since it is manually, i guess it's not quite a googol lines
19:05:00 <oklopol> well, it's not really that long now that i look at it
19:05:00 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p432433464.txt
19:05:13 <oklopol> it's just kinda tedious :P
19:05:24 <oklopol> it now actually goes one cycle!
19:06:17 <oklopol> the next round will probably have nothing in common with the first... i have to make that automatic somehow...
19:06:34 <oklopol> it's just on some level i kinda like doing that manually
19:06:54 <RodgerTheGreat> I like the radiator-looking part at the end. Very pretty.
19:07:05 <oklopol> hehe, that's the board :P
19:07:12 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah, I noticed the glider
19:08:00 <oklopol> that was the only way i could think of to escape the randomness of the mutations
19:09:02 <oklopol> i was first thinking i'd make it so that it can evolve randomly, but it kinda keeps track of what has been modified on the round and moves according to that... but i think i'd still have the problem of having to make every single combination manually...
19:09:22 <oklopol> gotta continue, i'll make that fucker glide if it kills me
19:09:53 <RodgerTheGreat> lol
19:10:27 <oklopol> hmm
19:10:37 <oklopol> you noticed "the glider", there are two gliders :)
19:10:47 <oklopol> one gol glider, and one tode glider
19:10:55 <oklopol> v is the tode glider
19:11:00 <oklopol> tode being the name of the language
19:12:08 <oklopol> try running that, it's pretty cool :P
19:12:10 <oklopol> maybe
19:12:12 <oklopol> or not
19:21:03 <oklopol> hmm, i think there are a few thousand possibilities
19:21:14 <oklopol> so i might actually get this ready during my lifetime
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19:33:52 <oklopol> actually... might be a million instead of a thousand... oh well
19:36:02 <oklopol> hmm, 512 for the actual possibilities, 1024 because there are 2 directions, also 4 of the 9 also store their last value, thus the temporary values ":", ";", "," and "O", so... 1024*2^4=16384
19:36:26 <oklopol> so... have a nice rest of your life, everyone, you won't be seeing me for a while!
19:37:01 <oerjan> not until you invent code generation?
19:38:43 <oklopol> yeah, well actually i already know the exact algo for that, done that for so long i find it pretty trivial now... i guess it would've been trivial from the start, but i'm verrry tired
19:38:51 <oklopol> was gonna go to sleep about 4 hours ago
19:39:26 <oklopol> i think i'll make the glider work manually, then make the 100% correct gol with code generation
19:39:33 * oerjan is strangely sleepy himself
19:40:36 <oklopol> what's even stranger, i never even saw the envelope
19:42:50 * oerjan assumes that wasn't meant to make sense
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19:54:18 <oklopol> yeah, you are the name that clarifies my instincts
19:56:10 * oerjan is strangely too sleepy to make nonsense, too
19:58:37 <oklopol> (sensical again.)
20:00:28 <oerjan> although just barely
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20:11:01 <oklopol> xD
20:11:26 <oklopol> thought i'd finished it, but hey, once the glider has moved the whole 4 steps, it's in a different place, and every move is completely different :)
20:13:35 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p454225263.txt i feel i've really accomplished something here
20:14:24 <oklopol> it's pretty neat until it jams at the forth cycle ;)
20:22:41 <RodgerTheGreat> hm
20:22:53 <RodgerTheGreat> it's certainly impressive
20:22:57 <RodgerTheGreat> does the solution scale?
20:23:27 <fax> did you make the game of life in wireworld?
20:23:33 <fax> (what is this?)
20:23:48 <RodgerTheGreat> this isn't wireworld
20:24:22 <RodgerTheGreat> and you could certainly build a wireworld game of life using the logic gates designed for the wireworld computer
20:27:52 <oklopol> RodgerTheGreat: yes, but it does not work for anything except the first 4 cycles of that glider, and even then only if it's going the right direction ;)
20:28:02 <oklopol> but it's scalable all right
20:28:16 <oklopol> you should be able to make a greater radiator and... watch the first 4 steps in that
20:28:22 <oklopol> but you could have multiple gliders
20:29:04 <oklopol> there's no optimization, so even though there's just one tode glider there, everything is matched everywhere each cycle
20:29:14 <oklopol> so the speed will drop unbelievably fast
20:29:46 <oklopol> when i've generated the code, i will probably have to optimize immensely, or it'll never evolve even one step :)
20:30:37 <oklopol> hmm, i've seen a wireworld gol i think
20:31:24 <oklopol> it is prolly harder to do in wireworld, but may require a bit less work ;)
20:31:35 <oklopol> if you insist on doing that manually
20:31:50 <oklopol> (which i'm not doing after i realized it's actually gonna be over 50000 lines...)
20:35:21 <oklopol> in case i'm correct, and this is the pseudo code for generating the possibilities, i'm gonna explode a bit
20:35:21 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p145514635.txt
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21:15:47 <oklopol> it was just 800 kb :)
21:16:32 <oklopol> and the corners still don't work xD
21:23:54 <oklopol> i don't think i've ever produced as much code as today
21:24:04 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p334335231.txt <<< check that out and kill our server :)
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←2007-10-14 2007-10-15 2007-10-16→ ↑2007 ↑all