←2008-08-02 2008-08-03 2008-08-04→ ↑2008 ↑all
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00:38:13 <adu> the topic is confusing
00:38:38 -!- oerjan has set topic: confusing.
00:38:43 * SimonRC goes to bed.
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00:57:10 <CakeProphet> does anyone know where I can get a good implementation of the Mersenne Twister PRNG for C?
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01:32:33 <adu> PRNG?
01:32:45 <pikhq> Psuedorandom number generator.
01:33:53 <oerjan> PRN generator. a really twisted one.
01:38:18 <adu> http://www.math.sci.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/~m-mat/MT/SFMT/index.html
01:39:07 <adu> I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but I still know how to use google
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03:16:35 <CakeProphet> I think I'm going to learn some Haskell
03:17:37 * oerjan recommends the #haskell channel
03:18:10 <oerjan> (not because it's not allowed here, just because that's a very friendly channel)
03:18:36 <oerjan> even if large. hm i haven't checked it in a while.
03:19:21 <CakeProphet> basically I want to become more eclectic in my language influences
03:19:38 <CakeProphet> so I can make more even more esoteric esolangs. :D
03:19:54 <CakeProphet> any other recommendations?
03:20:17 <oerjan> prolog or another logic language, obviously
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03:46:10 <CakeProphet> so far I've got Haskell, Mathematica, Prolog, and Erlang on my list.
03:47:34 <oerjan> lisp or scheme if somehow you don't know those already
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04:47:26 <psygnisfive> hmm
04:47:30 <psygnisfive> question question
04:48:21 <psygnisfive> im working on a language somewhat different from what i've done before, right
04:50:16 <psygnisfive> and i've got a parse for a CFG that looks something like [S, s, A, a, b, C, c, d, e] on rules like S -> sABe
04:50:29 <psygnisfive> how would i build this sort of thing into an abstract syntax tree? :|
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05:02:17 <psygnisf_> please add the logs to the topic
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05:04:13 <adu> lol
05:04:28 <adu> i love the topic :)
05:04:37 <adu> now its really confusing
05:05:42 <psygnisfive> it also needs to have links to the logs otherwise we're in violation of freenode policy
05:07:38 <adu> you mean http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric
05:07:52 <adu> or is there another place?
05:16:29 <Ilari> psygnisfive: What's best way to construct abstract syntax tree depends bit on nature of the CFG...
05:16:45 <psygnisfive> nevermind. im just going back to my normal way of parsing :p
05:16:54 <psygnisfive> i was doing a different parse method
05:16:58 <psygnisfive> no tokenization first
05:17:20 <psygnisfive> which made it more frustrating to parse, and harder to do a tree-build on
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07:48:06 <psygnisfive> woo
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09:30:45 <psygnisfive> night guys
09:42:49 <adu> night
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11:20:15 <tusho> it occurs to me in many types of data collections (forums, feed readers, blogs etc) the most common & useful operation is 'view next unread'
11:20:31 <tusho> a few feed readers rightly focus on that operation, but forums and blogs and everything else seem to just totally ignore it
11:20:31 <tusho> a shame
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11:59:34 <Ilari> tusho: It requires potentially unbounded per-user state, so implementing it in multiuser environments is bit hairy...
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12:44:17 <tusho> Ilari: most forums track read/unread state
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13:16:39 <Ilari> tusho: Then one has to be able to search those states (without doing linear walk, which would be too expensive)...
13:38:12 <tusho> Ilari: Er, no.
13:38:19 <tusho> You just have to sort by last read (which forum index pages already do)
13:38:24 <tusho> then jump to the next one
13:43:31 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I'm sorry but I have been extremely busy this weekend
13:43:33 <AnMaster> no time to debug
13:43:44 <AnMaster> I will try to find the bug as soon as I have time
13:43:49 <AnMaster> bbl
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14:06:56 <tusho> i lost the game
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15:34:08 <tusho> fax hasn't been online for 13 weeks
15:34:08 <tusho> :(
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15:49:51 <tusho> [[[Why do you call it "blog" if people can't post comments?]]] - someone on reddit
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17:01:45 <psygnisfive> tusho: that's a silly question for someone to ask.
17:02:23 <tusho> psygnisfive: Actually I quoted it because it's a sensible & reasonable thing to ask.
17:02:24 <tusho> Totally.
17:02:37 <psygnisfive> :P
17:25:04 <tusho> brb
17:28:32 <SimonRC> hm
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17:45:52 <Mony> hi there
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18:13:21 <tusho> hi Mony
18:13:35 <tusho> who are you
18:13:37 <tusho> :P
18:18:11 <tusho> Mony: pin
18:18:11 <tusho> g
18:22:44 <SimonRC> Should being a good roleplayer make one cringe?
18:23:53 <SimonRC> I am just about to have a character whose L1 is not English say "Exploiting the stupid is fun to me." instead of "Exploiting the stupidity is fun to me.".
18:24:24 <tusho> SimonRC: I think it just makes you a tremendous nerd, actually.
18:24:41 <tusho> :)
18:24:57 <SimonRC> It's a distinctly non-human person.
18:25:23 <tusho> SimonRC: as opposed to non-distinctly non-human?
18:25:30 <SimonRC> yeah
18:25:37 <tusho> :P
18:25:46 <SimonRC> After a year or so of them being quiet, I think I ought to play up their unhuman side.
18:26:19 <tusho> SimonRC: make them start speaking in a conlang
18:26:31 <SimonRC> no-one would understand it
18:26:31 <tusho> when faced with confusion, reply in another conlang
18:26:33 <tusho> :D
18:27:54 <SimonRC> :rolleyes:
18:30:20 <Mony> hum...
18:30:26 <Mony> sorry i was eating
18:30:32 <Mony> i'm a young french :D
18:30:37 <tusho> eating? inexcusable :P
18:30:57 <Mony> :p
18:34:09 <Mony> i'm interrested making my own esoteric language
18:34:21 <tusho> that's ... not exactly uncommon here
18:34:22 <tusho> :P
18:34:53 <Mony> :P
18:35:06 <SimonRC> Mony: be sure to look through the wiki
18:35:07 <Mony> but, i think it's a bit difficult
18:35:19 <tusho> not really
18:35:21 <tusho> it's quite easy
18:35:27 <tusho> what languages do you know?
18:35:35 <Mony> C
18:35:48 <tusho> ah, a masochist :)
18:36:02 <Mony> i want to make a ...
18:36:06 <Mony> what's the word...
18:36:07 <tusho> well, a lot of esolang interps are written in more higher-level languages simply beacuse it makes it easier to hack up one
18:36:13 <tusho> but if you know C that works fine too
18:36:15 <Mony> interpreter, does it correct ?
18:36:33 <SimonRC> interpreter might be the right word
18:36:37 <tusho> yes
18:36:41 <Mony> ok ^^
18:36:42 <tusho> interpreter runs a program
18:37:03 <SimonRC> but a compiler turn the program into another form, so you can run it later
18:37:15 <Mony> yeah, i know
18:37:24 <Mony> the easier is a interpreter
18:37:52 <Mony> so...
18:38:07 <tusho> Mony: any lang in particular? or your own?
18:38:13 <tusho> design a language first, then implement it, obviously ;)
18:38:29 <Mony> i'm searching for something who will make my language different
18:38:42 <SimonRC> good luck
18:38:51 <Mony> thx...
18:39:04 <SimonRC> I recommend reading about the weirdest existing languages you can
18:39:11 <SimonRC> both serious and eso
18:39:33 <tusho> Mony: we're suckers for interesting ideas
18:39:38 <tusho> i'm sure you'll pick up something from this channel
18:39:43 <SimonRC> that will give you ideas
18:40:44 <Mony> i want to make a very very very strange language
18:41:01 <SimonRC> that could be hard
18:41:14 <Mony> like, u have only 1 number
18:41:41 <tusho> Mony: the problem is most strange languages are kind of trivial
18:41:42 <tusho> :)
18:41:53 <SimonRC> in that case, it must have weirder control flow than Bullfrog, weirder data than unlambda, and weirder syntax than J/K/APL
18:42:03 <Mony> ^^
18:42:22 <tusho> SimonRC: at which point it'd not be very interesting, just difficult
18:42:23 <tusho> :P
18:42:34 <Mony> SimonRC... i don't understand all ur sentence...
18:42:35 <SimonRC> and it must be eviller than Malbolge
18:42:45 <tusho> Mony: Bullfrog, unlambda, are esolangs
18:42:53 <tusho> J, K and APL are all serious languages but they're very strange
18:43:07 <tusho> Malbolge is an almost-impossible-to-program in esolang.
18:43:10 <tusho> use the wiki :)
18:43:24 <SimonRC> Unlambda is one of the foundation esolanguages
18:44:12 <SimonRC> if a university did an esolangs course, you would learn about at least most of Unlambda, Befunge, Brainfuck, Malbolge, and INTERCAL
18:45:01 <SimonRC> I didn't mean Bullfrog, I meant SMITH
18:45:10 <Mony> the problem now, is the language, i'm french, and my english is not perfect
18:45:26 <Mony> it's hard to understand all ur sentence, and all the wiki
18:45:26 <tusho> Mony: we'll explain any english you don't get
18:45:27 <tusho> just ask :)
18:45:37 <Mony> ok :)
18:45:37 <tusho> also who removed the log url from the topic...
18:45:41 -!- tusho has set topic: http://vjn.cc/x.
18:47:01 -!- tusho has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
18:47:28 <Mony> Whitespace language rox !
18:47:28 <Mony> xD
18:47:35 <tusho> it's fun
18:48:44 <tusho> 21:05:42 <psygnisfive> it also needs to have links to the logs otherwise we're in violation of freenode policy
18:48:45 <tusho> it did
18:48:50 <tusho> oh, wait
18:48:55 <tusho> that was after it became 'confusing'
18:48:59 <psygnisfive> yes.
18:49:11 <tusho> i wonder if rot13'd urls would count
18:49:14 <tusho> if you stated that it was rot13'df
18:49:18 <tusho> what if it was a one time pad?
18:49:40 <SimonRC> lol
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18:51:44 <Mony> do u know goto++ ?
18:52:09 <SimonRC> I have heard of it
18:52:16 <SimonRC> it is the French esolang
18:52:26 <SimonRC> also one of the few French programming language
18:52:27 <SimonRC> s
18:53:06 <Mony> http://www.gotopp.org/presentation.html.fr
18:53:11 <tusho> SimonRC: ocaml
18:53:14 <tusho> eiffel
18:53:16 <tusho> i could go on
18:53:19 <Mony> it's funny too
18:53:45 <SimonRC> I thought OCaml's keywords were in English
18:53:54 <tusho> ah, I see
18:53:57 <Mony> here is in english http://www.gotopp.org/presentation.html.en
18:55:49 <SimonRC> lolol
18:55:59 <tusho> (this fabulous language)
18:55:59 <SimonRC> "Manipulate the references (equivalent to pointers) to do a lot of bugs."
18:56:28 <SimonRC> "If you need it, the manual is here. Not "here" but on the word manal. So you can click here too. When I say "here", I mean on the second word "manual". Oh et puis merde!"
18:56:29 <tusho> holy shit
18:56:31 <tusho> it has its own domain
18:56:32 <tusho> gotopp.org
18:56:47 <tusho> http://www.gotopp.org/index.html NEWS REPORTS
18:56:51 <tusho> that's just overboard
18:57:04 <tusho> ...
18:57:05 <tusho> screenshots.
19:08:19 <SimonRC> oh wow, it uses for scientific notation
19:09:53 <SimonRC> hehehe: "Les chanes de caractres sont des chanes de caractres. Difficile d'tre plus clair."
19:10:21 <Mony> lol
19:10:33 <SimonRC> ("Strings of characters are strings of characters. It's hard to be clearer than that."
19:11:13 <SimonRC> )
19:13:23 <Deewiant> tusho: eiffel is from the USA
19:13:31 <tusho> Deewiant: is it okay
19:13:47 <Deewiant> it is!
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19:58:32 * SimonRC goes.
20:05:13 <AnMaster> tusho, seen ais?
20:05:17 <tusho> AnMaster: it's sunday
20:05:22 <AnMaster> ah true
20:05:27 <tusho> ais is not here on saturday or sunday
20:05:28 <tusho> :\
20:05:36 <AnMaster> anyway that was a bloody bad thunderstorm
20:05:38 <AnMaster> power went out
20:05:45 <AnMaster> in a large part of the town
20:09:31 <Deewiant> just now, or what?
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20:42:15 <ihope> I sense doubt about the correctness of sin = i!(1 - i!sin).
20:42:17 <ihope> :-P
20:45:03 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no before
20:45:08 <AnMaster> when I was disconnected
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21:22:51 <tusho> f
21:22:52 <tusho> f
21:22:52 <tusho> f
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21:59:10 <ihope> tusho: f
21:59:16 <tusho> ihope: f
21:59:22 <ihope> Wait, this isn't ##physics, so never mind.
21:59:37 <tusho> ihope: join ##physics and it shall be so!
21:59:54 <ihope> Sori.
22:00:02 <tusho> ihope: Otherwise I'll murder you.
22:00:06 <tusho> Murderously.
22:01:09 <ihope> I espic huiz acsent nao, oqu?
22:01:35 <tusho> ihope: f.
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22:13:34 <ihope> Efe.
22:18:27 <tusho> ihope: fffff
22:20:44 <ihope> Efe efe efe efe efe.
22:25:53 <ihope> We really need to come up with a way to say "Doing X will not help." than "Step 1: Do X. Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit!"
22:26:03 <ihope> A better way, even.
22:27:58 <tusho> ihope: how about "Doing X will not help."
22:29:23 <ihope> That isn't catchy.
22:29:51 <tusho> ihope: "X: Brilliant Idea!"
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22:50:31 <oerjan> <tusho> fax hasn't been online for 13 weeks
22:50:41 <tusho> faxasthisia
22:50:52 <oerjan> i vaguely recall seeing him change his nick
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22:50:58 <tusho> really?
22:50:59 <tusho> to what?
22:51:21 <oerjan> my vague recalls are getting less useful recently :D
22:52:03 <oerjan> also, there is not s before the th, i think
22:52:07 <oerjan> *no
22:52:12 <tusho> oerjan: combine it with loggrepping skills!
22:52:37 <oerjan> otoh i _could_ be confusing him with you
22:53:51 <tusho> probably
22:55:14 <oerjan> also, that would require me to actually _keep_ private logs. or possibly to register at ircbrowse, iirc.
22:55:42 <tusho> oerjan: wget --mirror http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/
22:55:45 <tusho> grep term *
22:56:04 <tusho> (terminate the wget when it starts downloading stupid things like alternate directory listings and the parent directories ofc)
22:56:12 <Mony> who've got his own language here ?
22:56:18 <tusho> also ircbrowse is down
22:56:24 <tusho> Mony: esolangs are generally cheap
22:56:28 <tusho> there are people in here with more than 10
22:56:34 * oerjan raises his hand sort of
22:56:35 <tusho> because you can design & implement them in a few hours to a few days
22:56:39 * tusho has a few
22:57:15 <Mony> ok ^^
22:57:52 <oerjan> Mony: several of us have accounts at the esolangs wiki, you can check there
22:58:23 <Mony> when u speak about the wiki, is it Wikipedia ?
22:58:29 <oerjan> no!
22:58:37 <Mony> oh...
22:58:39 <oerjan> esolangs.org
22:59:12 <oerjan> wikipedia doesn't allow single person projects, esolangs does
22:59:20 <Mony> yeah
22:59:45 <oerjan> (or rather, wikipedia doesn't allow them unless they are actually famous)
22:59:53 <oerjan> like brainfuck
23:00:38 <tusho> Mony: http://esolangs.org/wiki/
23:00:39 <oerjan> esolangs uses the same software though, if a bit out of date
23:00:59 <tusho> (don't ask about the slices of lime)
23:01:00 <oerjan> and with some options turned off
23:01:18 * oerjan asks about the slices of lime
23:01:52 * tusho feeds oerjan to a goat
23:02:19 <oerjan> AYEEH
23:05:38 <ihope> Mony: ello.
23:05:45 <ihope> I've made a few languages.
23:05:46 <Mony> hi
23:05:51 <Mony> really ?
23:06:19 <tusho> Mony: most of us have
23:06:24 <tusho> it's really easy, honestly ;)
23:06:36 <Mony> i'm going to try
23:06:39 <Mony> ^^
23:06:41 <tusho> you just get a silly idea, write a mostly-okay description, then quickly hack up an implementation
23:06:44 <tusho> few hours to a few days
23:06:53 <tusho> Mony: you might want to learn a higher-level language than C
23:07:02 <oerjan> some of us leave out the implementation (:C
23:07:13 <tusho> since generally if you're quickly implementing the idea you don't wanna bother with stuff like memory management
23:07:15 <tusho> oerjan: :)
23:07:36 <Mony> a silly idea
23:07:39 <Mony> ... hum...
23:07:52 <tusho> Mony: also trying to hard to think of a silly idea is probably a bad idea :)
23:07:55 <Mony> i'm the creator of the silly compo on Dev-fr.org xD
23:08:14 <tusho> being in #esoteric generally has dangerous side-effects like silly ideas :D
23:08:28 <Mony> lol
23:09:09 <Mony> hum.. i've got an idea
23:09:27 <Mony> u will see ;)
23:12:35 * SimonRC liked Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
23:12:38 * SimonRC goes to bed.
23:12:51 <tusho> Mony: oh?
23:13:14 <Mony> please, wait some minuts
23:13:18 <Mony> ;)
23:13:41 <tusho> Mony: generally we mention our ideas here immediately
23:13:43 <tusho> so that we can improve on htem
23:13:46 <tusho> or point out any serious flaws
23:14:31 <Mony> ok... but it's a bit difficult for me to explain in english :|
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23:15:23 * pikhq has a small handful.
23:15:34 * pikhq is behind the conversation. :p
23:16:04 <Mony> i think i'm going to say here sometime ^^
23:16:13 <tusho> Mony: so what's the idea?
23:16:16 <tusho> it's okay if you can't explain it fully
23:16:17 <tusho> :p
23:16:31 <Mony> you're nice, and, my english can be better then :)
23:16:40 <Mony> so, my idea :
23:16:53 <Mony> there only 1 number
23:17:02 <Mony> named "vab"
23:17:17 <tusho> mmhm
23:17:20 <Mony> there is somes instructions :
23:17:28 <tusho> is vab=0? or...
23:17:33 <Mony> yeah
23:17:38 <Mony> that's it
23:17:39 <Mony> and
23:17:50 <Mony> "+" add 1 to vab
23:18:18 <tusho> ah
23:18:18 <Mony> and, it's the same for the other basics like /, *, -
23:18:20 <tusho> there's one variable
23:18:27 <tusho> called vab
23:18:29 <tusho> that starts as 0
23:18:30 <Mony> yep
23:18:31 <tusho> int vab = 0;
23:18:38 <Mony> exactly
23:18:39 <tusho> Mony: *1 won't be very useful...
23:18:55 <Mony> no
23:18:56 <Mony> but
23:18:58 <Mony> *2
23:19:01 <Mony> and /2
23:19:03 <tusho> ah
23:19:07 <tusho> is there anything else to it?
23:19:11 <tusho> control structures and such
23:19:15 <tusho> (if, else, while and the like)
23:19:23 <Mony> in the future :p
23:19:25 <Mony> but
23:19:29 <tusho> sounds a little like deadfish to me right now :P http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish
23:19:44 <Mony> i'll put the print texte function
23:20:30 <pikhq> Well, if that's it...
23:20:39 <tusho> pikhq: hey, it's his first esolang
23:20:41 <tusho> don't be harsh
23:20:55 <pikhq> tusho: Actually, I was just going to say that I could have an implementation done quickly.
23:21:10 <tusho> Well yeah, I don't think an implementation is significantly hard :P
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23:21:13 <pikhq> It's simple, but an amusing concept, at least.
23:22:15 <tusho> int main(){char c;int vab=0;while(c=getchar()){switch(c){case '+':vab++;break;case '-':vab--;break;case '*':vab *= 2; break;case '/': vab /= 2; break;}};return 0;}
23:22:15 <tusho> :P
23:23:01 <Mony> that's it :P
23:23:14 * pikhq nods
23:23:26 <Mony> but
23:23:39 <Mony> there's some things differents
23:23:51 <tusho> oh?
23:23:58 <Mony> i put an drag'n'drog :p
23:24:14 <tusho> i don't see the relation of drag and drop to a language
23:24:15 <tusho> :P
23:24:30 <Mony> http://rafb.net/p/sBrbn810.html
23:24:50 <Mony> u drag the file, and u drop on the executable
23:24:57 <tusho> oh, it opens a file.
23:25:01 <tusho> lemme guess - you use windows
23:25:03 <Mony> yep
23:25:09 <Mony> yep :/
23:25:15 <tusho> if you drag a file on to an .exe it opens it with the filename as the first arg
23:25:18 <Mony> i'm a n00b with linux
23:25:22 <tusho> so it's more like "interprets a file"
23:25:26 <tusho> as opposed to "drag and drop" :P
23:25:41 <Mony> ^^
23:25:45 <tusho> Mony: p.s. "x = x OP y" is "x OP= y"
23:25:52 <tusho> vab = vab*2; vab *= 2;
23:25:56 <tusho> but I assume you knew
23:26:20 <Mony> oh, yes..
23:26:35 <Mony> not important yet :P
23:26:43 <tusho> not really :P
23:27:02 <Mony> so, now, i'm going to add print text function
23:27:44 <Mony> i remove printf("%d", vab);
23:27:46 <Mony> and
23:28:04 <Mony> if(buf == '$') printf("%c", vab);
23:28:43 <Mony> using decimal valors
23:29:18 <tusho> have fun :P
23:29:27 <tusho> Mony: your language isn't turing complete, yet
23:29:34 <tusho> in fact, it can't do anything but output constant strings
23:29:39 <tusho> you'll need to add some kind of loops
23:29:54 <Mony> yes, i know :/
23:30:08 <tusho> :)
23:31:08 <Mony> but... i'll do that tomorrow ^^
23:31:16 <pikhq> tusho: It's enough for 99 bottles of beer.
23:31:17 <pikhq> :p
23:31:29 <tusho> pikhq: Not a real one:P
23:35:21 <pikhq> tusho: It'll get the job done. :p
23:37:26 <Mony> wtf
23:37:36 <Mony> i already got some problems -_-
23:37:55 -!- timotiis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:37:58 <Mony> http://rafb.net/p/9T7NMl68.html
23:38:11 <Mony> hum...
23:38:24 <Mony> don't worry...
23:38:27 * Mony is a n00b
23:38:30 <Mony> be happy...
23:41:25 <pikhq> Might I recommend checking for end of file on fichier, instead of checking for the character ']'?
23:42:31 <Mony> EOF
23:42:58 <Mony> yeah, my language is useful already
23:43:06 <Mony> for mental calcul >_>
23:45:43 <oerjan> make buf an int, otherwise EOF checking is not portable
23:46:25 <oerjan> (the true EOF value is outside the bounds of char)
23:46:33 <Mony> ok...
23:48:38 <oerjan> hm, "fgetc() reads the next character from stream and returns it as an unsigned char cast to an int, or EOF on end of file or error.
23:49:25 <oerjan> doesn't this mean that on a system with signed chars comparing the result of fgetc with a character constant could fail?
23:49:51 <oerjan> (probably only with non-ASCII characters, but still)
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23:55:36 <Mony> hehe
23:55:37 <Mony> http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7450/stuffssxs8.jpg
23:56:00 <Mony> http://rafb.net/p/n2IXz562.html the source, only with +, and -
23:57:01 <Mony> so
23:57:04 <Mony> let's sleep
23:57:13 * tusho doesn't sleep
23:57:14 <Mony> see ya, and thank u guys ;)
23:57:18 <tusho> bye :D
23:57:20 * Mony is away: zZz
23:58:14 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?).
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