←2008-11-14 2008-11-15 2008-11-16→ ↑2008 ↑all
00:30:04 <GregorR> http://www.new.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30185035&l=998b5&id=1055580469 I AM THE FIRST WAVE OF THE ZOMBIE INVASION
00:32:02 <oerjan> Brains..
00:32:38 <Slereah_> Enjoy your AIDS
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00:34:54 <oerjan> also, CJD
00:36:45 <oerjan> +ul ((kuru )S:^):^
00:36:46 <thutubot> kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru kuru ...too much output!
00:37:49 <oerjan> +ul ((ku)(ru)):^!S(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^
00:37:50 <thutubot> kururukurukukururukukurukururukurukukurukururukukururukurukukururukukurukururukukururukurukukurukururukurukukururukukurukururukurukukurukururukukururukurukukurukururukurukukururukukurukururukukururukurukukururukukurukururukurukukurukururukukururukurukukuru ...too much output!
00:40:42 <Slereah_> +ul ((desu )S:^):^
00:40:43 <thutubot> desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu ...too much output!
00:40:45 <Slereah_> :D
00:41:30 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | hm.
00:41:48 <oerjan> optbot is not amused
00:41:50 <optbot> oerjan: chords
00:42:46 <Slereah_> +ul ((optbot! )S:^):^
00:42:47 <optbot> Slereah_: lol!
00:42:48 <thutubot> optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! optbot! ...too much output!
00:42:48 <optbot> thutubot: seems it succeeds
00:42:59 <Slereah_> :D
00:44:56 <GregorR> http://www.new.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30185038&id=1055580469&saved I improved my Zombiism.
00:45:38 <Slereah_> This content is currently unavailable
00:45:53 <lament> optbot!
00:45:53 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ha.
00:45:55 <lament> ha!
00:45:59 <GregorR> Errr, mislink
00:46:05 <GregorR> http://www.new.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30185038&l=68f03&id=1055580469 This is what I meant
00:48:24 <Slereah_> You have a luxuriant mane for a zombie
00:48:31 <Slereah_> I'm not sure they shampoo that often
00:49:02 <GregorR> Heh
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00:57:22 <bsmntbombdood> luxuriant mane
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05:53:22 <GregorR> I substantially improved my zombification!
05:53:24 <GregorR> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30185196&l=4069f&id=1055580469
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06:17:01 <GregorR> psygnisfive: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30185196&l=4069f&id=1055580469
06:26:57 <bsmntbombdood> for the twelve time?
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06:41:30 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | That must have been glorious..
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08:36:10 <Mony> plop
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10:20:10 * Deewiant sighs at RC/Funge-98
10:20:15 <Deewiant> ./funge --help
10:20:16 <Deewiant> zsh: segmentation fault ./funge --help
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12:41:30 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | yep.
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14:48:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I seen that before
14:48:49 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I even checked in gdb what the issue was
14:49:36 <AnMaster> iirc: it was that after he parsed command line arguments he then tried to find where the script arguments begun by scanning for the script name, which ended up as not set
14:56:04 <AnMaster> so strcmp with a null pointer iirc
14:56:10 <AnMaster> or maybe it was uninitalised
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16:01:03 <ehird> hi ais523
16:01:11 <ais523> hi ehird
17:01:18 <oklopol> hi
17:01:24 <ais523> hi
17:01:37 <oklopol> hello
17:01:49 <ais523> +ul (hello)S
17:01:50 <thutubot> hello
17:02:07 <ais523> +ul (optbot)S
17:02:08 <thutubot> optbot
17:02:08 <optbot> ais523: there's a link to it somewhere there but it's broken
17:02:08 <optbot> thutubot: hmm
17:02:20 <ais523> ah, I was wondering why thutubot was being slow, must have been a one-off thing
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17:33:53 <MizardX> +ul (!)(d)(l)(r)(o)(w)( )(,)(o)(l)(l)(e)(H)(~S:^):^
17:33:54 <thutubot> Hello, world! ...S out of stack!
17:34:18 <Slereah_> Onoes!
17:34:23 <Slereah_> NEED MOAR STAX :
17:34:25 <Slereah_> D:
17:49:47 <jayCampbell> control-D on that line
18:41:30 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | horrible.
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19:20:21 <oklopol> fizzie: 100.6 meters
19:28:49 <Slereah> Is this your penis size?
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19:41:11 <oerjan> Slereah_: finnish statistical average, i think
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20:04:30 <Slereah_> 'sup dudes
20:05:28 <ais523> not all that much, I don't think
20:06:06 <Slereah_> you don't think?
20:06:11 <Slereah_> That's pretty dumb!
20:08:02 <GregorR> HAW HAW U R SO KEVLAR
20:08:08 <Slereah_> I NO RITE?
20:08:16 <Slereah_> DID YOU SEE WHAT I DID THERE?
20:08:31 <ais523> ... brains ...
20:08:42 <oerjan> GregorR: he's impenetrable to bullets?
20:09:04 <Slereah_> I'm immune to all sorts of projectiles.
20:09:51 <oerjan> except cream pies.
20:10:40 <Slereah_> Fuck you clown
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20:10:56 <oklopol> oerjan: could you stop with the sex jokes?
20:11:17 <oerjan> oklopol: um i didn't start it this time?
20:11:36 <ais523> oerjan: yes you did, you invaded Poland
20:11:48 <oklopol> creampie is a well-known sex term! that was so improper
20:12:03 <Slereah_> oerjan has a clown fetish
20:12:04 <oerjan> but but - it's strawberry!
20:12:14 <oklopol> 8|
20:12:21 <oklopol> i can't take this! need to go raed
20:12:49 <Slereah_> *raped
20:12:57 <oerjan> ais523: i think that means the discussion is officially over
20:13:16 <ais523> oerjan: is this some sort of #esoteric version of Godwin's law?
20:13:24 <oerjan> yes
20:13:48 <ais523> incidentally, I deliberately invoked Godwin's law over in #nethack because there was a GPL vs BSD flamewar starting up
20:13:51 <ais523> and it actually worked
20:13:59 <oerjan> :D
20:14:06 <ais523> I said "someone mention Hitler"
20:14:07 <Slereah_> Oh you.
20:15:11 <Slereah_> Hm.
20:15:31 <Slereah_> I wonder, should I put a link to scans of the original article on the Kolmogorov machine page on the esowiki?
20:15:53 <Slereah_> It is not street legal, but I'm not sure Kolmogorov would complain
20:16:08 <Slereah_> And it's pretty hard to find otherwise.
20:16:40 <GregorR> Just put up a disclaimer like
20:16:54 <GregorR> DISCLAIMER: NO ONE IS LIABLE FOR DAMAGES CAUSED BY POTENTIAL COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT
20:17:04 <GregorR> And they'll be so confused reading the disclaimer they won't know who to sue.
20:17:12 <ais523> Slereah_: don't put copyright violation on the esowiki
20:17:16 <ais523> I'll just have to delete it again
20:17:26 <Slereah_> Again? :o
20:17:30 <Slereah_> I never did it before!
20:17:45 <Slereah_> I am shocked and appaled by your insinuations sir!
20:18:04 <ais523> Slereah_: copyvio's been deleted from the esowiki before
20:18:24 <Slereah_> But has it been posted before, though?
20:18:36 <ehird> ais523: what is it
20:19:48 <oklopol> Slereah_: no matter what happens, make sure you give it to me one way or another, i've been wanting to learn the basics of kolmogorovian computation since i first heard about it
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20:20:09 <Slereah_> oklopol : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Kolmo/
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20:20:15 <Slereah_> QUICK, BEFORE AIS DELETES IT
20:20:28 <Slereah_> I wonder if it's a copywrite violation though.
20:20:56 <Slereah_> Then again, the translation is also copywrited, and it's recent. So no dice I guess
20:21:14 <MikeA> good afternoon, or whatever time of day it happens to be :)
20:21:29 <Slereah_> Hello sir
20:21:32 <oklopol> 22.20, so morning
20:21:35 <ais523> MikeA: good evening
20:21:36 <Slereah_> We were just violating copyrights.
20:21:53 <MikeA> rules are meant to be broken
20:22:02 <ais523> no, not at all
20:22:02 <oklopol> so's your face
20:22:07 <MikeA> ok, maybe bent
20:22:12 <ais523> if they were they wouldn't have been made in the first place
20:22:32 <ehird> ais523: Rule: You must break this rule.
20:22:33 <Slereah_> Or maybe put in a space with a metric such that they appear bent
20:22:35 <ehird> WHAT NOW???
20:22:38 <ehird> WHAT NOW ais523??!??!!
20:22:39 <GregorR> Coined phrases were made to be taken at face value.
20:22:44 <ais523> ehird: I never agreed to that one in the first place
20:22:52 <ais523> and I wouldn't, it would be a stupid rule to agree to
20:22:52 <Slereah_> but I did
20:22:53 <MikeA> oops sorry wrong context..
20:22:59 <ehird> ais523: did you explicitly agree to copyright law?
20:23:01 <oklopol> ais523: they're not meant to be broken from within the system, they're meant to be broken by introducing only a subset of them into another system, from inside a supersystem containing both theses systems.
20:23:10 <oklopol> people tend to get that wrong.
20:23:12 <ais523> ehird: I implicitly did by not emigrating
20:23:22 <MikeA> ie, obey the rules but question them. copyright, that's different :)
20:23:27 -!- ehird has set topic: Rules of #esoteric: You must break this rule..
20:23:29 <ehird> ais523: gonna /part?
20:23:29 <ais523> oklopol: you should play nomic
20:23:30 <Slereah_> ehird : Copyrights laws are international
20:23:32 <ais523> optbot!
20:23:33 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | How about jumpwalls, which are jumped over such that you land just after the next jumpwall?.
20:23:34 <ais523> ehird: no
20:23:37 -!- ehird has set topic: Rules of #esoteric: You must break this rule..
20:23:38 <oklopol> ais523: heh, maybe :P
20:23:48 <ais523> ehird: besides, nobody's bound by those rules
20:23:50 <ehird> ais523: why aren't you breaking it?
20:23:51 <ehird> and yes they are
20:23:56 <ehird> irc channels have rules
20:23:58 <jayCampbell> i refuse to break this rule
20:24:00 <ehird> do you violate them?
20:24:08 -!- ais523 has set topic: Rules of Freenode: You must mention the logs (http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric) in the topic..
20:24:21 <ais523> ehird: it depends on how established the rules were
20:24:25 <Slereah_> Man, we were having a blast violating copyrights before that discussion :(
20:24:31 <ehird> ais523: optbot's topics are pretty established, right?
20:24:31 <optbot> ehird: like this? http://www.nsfwlinks.com/
20:24:41 <jayCampbell> rules depend on the threat of violence
20:24:43 <ais523> if fizzie or lament put that into the topic and locked it, then I'd consider it to be more of an established rule
20:24:44 <oklopol> lol
20:24:56 <oklopol> i read that as "optbot's links are pretty established, right?"
20:24:57 <optbot> oklopol: (Mark Twain)++
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20:25:07 <oklopol> was pretty funny
20:25:10 <ais523> bye optbot
20:25:15 <ehird> it'll be back
20:25:20 <jayCampbell> not a tom sawyer fan
20:25:40 <ehird> hmm.
20:25:41 <ehird> optbot won't start.
20:26:02 -!- optbot has joined.
20:26:02 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Rule: You must violate this rule..
20:26:11 <ehird> see, optbot's topics are well-established.
20:26:11 <optbot> ehird: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Rule: You must violate this rule.
20:26:15 <ehird> optbot: i agree.
20:26:15 <optbot> ehird: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Rule: You must violate this rule.
20:26:23 <ais523> ehird: you just modified it, that doesn't ount
20:26:24 <oklopol> umm. Slereah_: did ais523 get to you, i can't get the pages to load anymore 8|
20:26:25 <ais523> count
20:26:31 <jayCampbell> optbot has also not violated the rule
20:26:31 <optbot> jayCampbell: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Rule: You must violate this rule.
20:26:33 <ais523> someone kick optobt for not being a useful bot any more
20:26:33 <ehird> ais523: i was just improving it
20:26:37 <ehird> and no
20:26:39 <ais523> ehird: that isn't an improvement
20:26:41 <ais523> optbot!
20:26:41 <ehird> since when do we kick useless bots?
20:26:45 <ais523> ehird: when they lie in the topic
20:26:57 <ehird> ais523: when was the last time we kicked anyone
20:26:58 <ehird> seriously.
20:27:02 <ehird> anyway
20:27:03 <jayCampbell> since the latest batch of power-hungry etc
20:27:07 <ehird> it may not be an improvement in your eyes
20:27:08 <ehird> D
20:27:09 <ehird> :D
20:27:18 <Slereah_> oklopol : They work good here!
20:27:22 <Slereah_> Try refreshing it
20:27:29 <oklopol> well
20:27:32 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Kolmo/
20:27:36 <Slereah_> golmogorog
20:27:38 <oklopol> my internet connection says "local only" now, so.
20:27:55 <ehird> ais523: why aren't you violating the rule yet
20:28:11 <Slereah_> He's not violating the rule, ehird
20:28:12 <oklopol> so, because i'm not going to read that right now, can you tell me the highpoints of it, Slereah_?
20:28:25 <Slereah_> oklopol : It's about the Kolmogorov machine.
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20:28:44 <ehird> i initiate a criminal cfj against ais523 for violating the Rule.
20:28:47 <oklopol> Slereah_: i know, but i don't know how it works
20:28:49 <ehird> i assign this criminal cfj to jayCampbell
20:28:57 <ehird> (the only other talking nomic player in here)
20:29:04 <Slereah_> oklopol : Go see the andrei machine 9000 article on the esowiki
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20:29:50 <ehird> jayCampbell: i am about to crim cfj you for not judgding that
20:29:53 <ehird> judging
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20:30:10 <Slereah_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Andrei_Machine_9000
20:30:32 <fizzie> According to my logs, the last time we kicked anyone was 2008-08-10 when ehird (well, tusho) was kicked for insisting to be kicked.
20:30:38 <ehird> :D
20:30:49 <Slereah_> He's such a rebel!
20:31:02 <oklopol> Slereah_: the special nodes 0-5 are just an andrei machine 9000 thing, and not related to the original?
20:31:08 <MikeA> I'm out, peace
20:31:12 <oklopol> peace.
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20:31:21 <Slereah_> oklopol : The original machine had 0 and 1
20:31:25 <oklopol> right, okay.
20:32:05 <Slereah_> It's probably the worst algorithmic system there is that wasn't designed for this express purpose.
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20:32:21 <jayCampbell> i judge ais523 guilty of violating the rule
20:32:22 <Slereah_> I tried writing a Fibonacci thingy on it, but fuck is it long
20:32:28 <Slereah_> ...
20:32:29 <Slereah_> jayCampbell
20:32:30 <ais523> +topic
20:32:30 -!- thutubot_ has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef:/logs:/esoteric | Rules: ehird may not talk in this channel, and optbot may not set the topic ..
20:32:32 <Slereah_> Because of you
20:32:35 <Slereah_> I lost the game
20:32:48 <jayCampbell> hi5
20:32:50 <oklopol> unknown computational class?
20:32:51 <oklopol> how so?
20:32:58 <Slereah_> wat?
20:33:02 <ehird> ais523:
20:33:04 <ehird> did you just kill optbot?
20:33:09 <oklopol> Categories: Languages | 2008 | Unimplemented | Unknown computational class
20:33:12 <Slereah_> oklopol : Oh.
20:33:18 <Slereah_> I probably fucked up
20:33:21 <ehird> ais523: well?
20:33:27 <Slereah_> It has a known computational class
20:33:38 <ais523> ehird: no, I didn't kill optbot
20:33:39 <Slereah_> I'll remove that
20:33:41 <ais523> not deliberately, anyway
20:33:45 <ehird> ais523: what DID you do?
20:33:48 <ais523> I killed a process but it was owned by me, and I didn't use sudo
20:33:58 <ehird> ais523: which process was that?
20:33:59 <ais523> and I thought you ran optbot under your username
20:34:08 <ais523> ehird: a test thutubot process that failed to work
20:34:45 <oklopol> i don't get the "active part" thingö
20:34:46 <ehird> brb
20:34:48 <oklopol> *thing
20:35:25 <fizzie> ^reload
20:35:25 <fungot> Reloaded.
20:35:26 <fizzie> ^style
20:35:26 <fungot> Available: agora alice darwin* discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc lovecraft pa speeches ss wp
20:35:31 <fizzie> Now there's a *.
20:36:04 <Slereah_> The Copyright law of 1993 had specified a general duration of copyrights of 50 years beyond an author's death, or 50 years since the publication of an anonymous work. The implementation act for the law made the new law apply retroactively, restoring copyrights (and neighbouring rights) on works on which the shorter
20:36:05 <Slereah_> copyright terms from the Soviet-era had already expired or which had not been copyrighted at all under Soviet law. In 2004, this copyright term was extended to 70 years for all works still copyrighted.
20:36:15 <oklopol> Slereah_: explain active part.
20:36:17 <Slereah_> Well, I guess Kolmogorov's paper is still copyrighted
20:36:53 <Slereah_> oklopol : The active part of a transformation is a part that will undergo changes.
20:37:06 <oklopol> err, specified by the rule?
20:37:12 <oklopol> is there just one rule?
20:37:19 <Slereah_> There are as many rules as you want
20:37:48 <Slereah_> The active part also doesn't have to be in one piece
20:38:42 <Slereah_> If you want an example, try to fucking refresh the page.
20:39:01 <Slereah_> There's only one actual example, it is "Doubling a number"
20:39:20 <Slereah_> It's already pretty horrible
20:40:27 <Slereah_> I'd write it for you, but it's hard to write a graph
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20:41:33 <Slereah_> Aw.
20:41:39 <Slereah_> Kolmogorov died in 87 :(
20:41:50 <Slereah_> Still 30 years of copyright
20:42:22 <Slereah_> I wonder who owns the copyright now.
20:42:25 <Slereah_> Mother Russia?
20:42:32 <GregorR> So's your face.
20:43:07 <Slereah_> My face is mother Russia?
20:43:37 <Slereah_> He died a short while after my birth.
20:43:39 <Slereah_> COINCIDENCE?
20:43:56 <oklopol> yes.
20:53:58 <Slereah_> So oklopol, still not loading?
20:54:07 <oklopol> is!
20:54:27 <Slereah_> "is" is not an answer.
20:54:40 <Asztal> hmm, is it just me or does http://codu.org/colormatch/multibg.html not work?
20:54:54 <Asztal> Error: D[D.length - 1] is undefined
20:55:34 <Slereah_> It works
20:55:37 <Slereah_> And it's beautiful
20:55:38 <Asztal> in the non-minified version that's line 89; return results[results.length-1][0];
20:55:45 <Asztal> :(
20:56:27 <GregorR> Asztal: E_WORKSFORME
20:56:34 -!- Corun has joined.
20:56:42 <GregorR> Asztal: What browser?
20:56:56 <Asztal> It's a firefox 3.1 nightly
20:57:14 <Asztal> it was definitely working recently, but stopped a while ago, I just got around to investigating
20:57:29 <oklopol> Slereah_: it is an answer.
20:57:44 <oklopol> i mean
20:57:46 <oklopol> is.
20:58:05 <GregorR> Asztal: Sounds like a Firefox problem X-P
20:58:27 <Slereah_> is is an answer?
20:59:41 <oklopol> Slereah_: is.
21:00:11 <Slereah_> So, do you feel more knowledgable on Kolmogorov machines now?
21:00:31 <oklopol> i didn't read it yet!
21:00:36 <Slereah_> Here's the example : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Kolmo/Kolmo%2024.jpg
21:00:44 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Kolmo/Kolmo%2025.jpg
21:00:51 <Slereah_> Those 5 rules can double a number.
21:01:26 <oklopol> coooool
21:01:45 <Slereah_> (A number is here defined as the number of 2's in a line. They've got 3-4 between them because two nodes of the same types can't touch)
21:01:50 <Slereah_> (Or KABLOOEY)
21:03:32 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving").
21:04:11 <oklopol> hmm. i don't see why it doubles exactly
21:04:14 <oklopol> will have to ponderize
21:04:17 <Asztal> ah, excellent, it would also appear that my javascript debugger is broken :)
21:04:20 <oklopol> after buying a drinker
21:04:20 <oklopol> ->
21:04:33 <Slereah_> The proof of the TC-ness of it uses recursive functions. A list of numbers is defined by numbers separated with the nodes 5-6
21:04:40 <GregorR> Asztal: Gwahahaher.
21:05:03 <Slereah_> Hm. I wonder if the piece of paper with my attempt at a Fibonacci is still around
21:05:50 <oklopol> oh, and ais523: eodermdrome isn't tc methinks.
21:05:57 <ais523> oklopol: really?
21:06:05 <oklopol> the set of all possible rules is finite.
21:06:07 <ais523> I'm pretty sure you can implement some sort of cyclic tag system in it
21:06:15 <ais523> oklopol: yes
21:06:16 <ais523> but
21:06:17 <oklopol> *the set of all sets of possible rules
21:06:26 <ais523> having finitely many programs does not imply not TC
21:06:29 <ais523> especially when you have input
21:06:31 <ais523> like that does
21:06:39 <ais523> if any of those programs is a BF interp, for instance
21:06:41 <ais523> the lang is TC
21:06:49 <ais523> and I suspect one of them is
21:06:52 <Slereah_> ais523 : Does it have a BF interpreter?
21:07:02 <ais523> Slereah_: it doesn't have any useful programs yet, it's a pain to write in
21:07:08 <oklopol> hmm. i would say you need to be able to encode the input in the language.
21:07:10 <ais523> but I suspect it is possible to write a BF interp in eodermdrome
21:07:23 <oklopol> or it's not a tc language
21:07:25 <ais523> oklopol: we're about to have yet another discussion on what TCness actually means, then, I suspect
21:07:29 <oklopol> ;)
21:08:31 <Slereah_> tossonoss
21:08:46 <oklopol> that's really a matter of opinion, it can be tc in the way a language with just the "run input as bf" in tc, it's just it's not tc in the way that's interesting.
21:08:58 <oklopol> programs essentially can't be written in it.
21:09:25 <ais523> a BF interp is an interesting program
21:09:34 <oklopol> :|
21:09:44 <ais523> hmm... arguably, the input is part of the program in that case
21:09:47 <oklopol> that only sidesteps the issue.
21:09:54 <oklopol> err
21:09:57 <Asztal> GregorR: apparently you found a way to break Firefox 3.1's JIT, well done :D
21:10:17 <oklopol> if you can make a bf interp, and give it input without actual IO involving an input device, then it's tc in a way i can agree with
21:10:23 <oklopol> but that's not possible.
21:10:50 <ais523> oklopol: eodermdrome + an input device together make a TC system, almost certainly
21:11:06 <ais523> but is having only a finite amount of possible programs necessarily non-TC-ising, if you have input
21:11:13 <ais523> also, what about this for an argument:
21:11:21 <oklopol> ais523: whatever. if the set of programs is finite, i'm never going to see it as an interesting language.
21:11:27 <ais523> it's probably possible to make an eodermdrome program which emulates all possible Turing machines, in parallel
21:11:31 <ais523> so it runs all possible programs at once
21:11:38 <jayCampbell> slowly
21:11:49 <ais523> and mingles together their outputs, with identifiers saying which ones are which
21:11:54 <ais523> jayCampbell: yes, but that doesn't matter for TCness
21:12:07 <ais523> oklopol: then, it's running any program you want, you just have to filter the output
21:12:11 <Slereah_> KURNEL KLINK, WY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME!
21:12:17 <ais523> I think most people would consider that TC
21:12:23 <ais523> even Vaughan Pratt, I think
21:12:51 <oklopol> ais523: that's a lot better then relying on IO.
21:13:05 <oklopol> but
21:13:33 <psygnisfive> wee
21:13:40 <ais523> oklopol: think about it this way: is a Python interpreter TC? It only has one possible program, which is to interpret Python
21:13:50 <psygnisfive> my little sentence generator thing has a subsystem that does graph rewriting :3
21:13:56 <oklopol> ais523: no, i wouldn't say it is
21:14:00 <ais523> I would
21:14:01 <psygnisfive> but not just any graph rewriting, pattern-matched graph rewriting :o
21:14:30 <oklopol> ais523: anyway, tc or not, it's not an interesting language.
21:14:37 <Slereah_> psygnisfive : Code for graph rewriting plox
21:14:45 <psygnisfive> what?
21:14:53 <Slereah_> psygnisfive : Code for graph rewriting plox
21:15:02 <psygnisfive> SPEAK ENGRISH NEGR
21:15:17 <Slereah_> psygnisfive : Code for glaph rewliting prox
21:15:22 <oklopol> psygnisfive: he wants the graph rewriting code
21:15:33 <ais523> oklopol: I'd say it's effectively TC, whether it's TC or not is a matter of semantics, not a matter of computational class...
21:15:34 <psygnisfive> oh. why? graph rewriting isnt all that complicated
21:15:34 <oklopol> i wrote a graph thing for eodermdrome
21:15:43 <Slereah_> IS IT?
21:15:46 <psygnisfive> yes?
21:15:47 <oklopol> ais523: yes, let's just say it's an uninteresting language.
21:16:10 <ais523> ah, ok, sorry if you aren't interested in it
21:16:11 <Slereah_> Then code plox
21:16:15 <ais523> I thought it was rather neat...
21:16:18 <oklopol> it's tc in the way a language that only prints the output of all turing machines is tc, no matter what the input program is.
21:16:20 <psygnisfive> it uses graph writing to fucking do lexical morphology :D:D:D
21:16:27 <psygnisfive> slereah, let me upload it.
21:16:35 <ais523> oklopol: would you say non-TC languages can be interesting?
21:16:38 <oklopol> ais523: well i guess you could think of it as a kind of graph-rewriting assembly.
21:16:41 <ais523> like Splinter or Malbolge, for instance?
21:16:49 <oklopol> ais523: yes, they sure can, assemblies are like that
21:16:50 * Slereah_ found his attempt at a Fibonacci in graph rewriting
21:17:00 <Slereah_> At least part of it
21:17:01 <ais523> also, Malbolge-T would be Turing-incomplete by your definition, as it can only have a finite number of programs too
21:17:19 <oklopol> they are almost tc, and you can just kinda increment one of their variables to get more computational power, like the size of registers
21:17:36 <oklopol> if i think about eodermdrome that way, it seems much nicer already.
21:17:53 <ais523> well, you could just make it a matrioshka language
21:18:01 <ais523> say the program + input is the actual program being run
21:18:22 <psygnisfive> slereah: http://wellnowwhat.net/linguistics/SemSyn/generator.js
21:18:31 <oklopol> yeah, that's another way to think of it that makes it more interesting.
21:18:52 <psygnisfive> the relevant functions are under the Derivational Lexicon section, functions lexical_derivation, single_lexical_resolution, and multiple_lexical_resolution
21:19:00 <oklopol> ais523: yeah okay you've convinced me for now, i will not plead for adding an infinite amount of labels.
21:19:26 <Slereah_> Java Script?
21:19:28 <Slereah_> Duuuude
21:19:33 <psygnisfive> well, mostly the first two. the last one is multiple application of the second plus collecting the rewrite rules that were applied in an array
21:19:40 <psygnisfive> yes, javascript. i know. :(
21:19:55 <psygnisfive> but its the easiest way for me to get a semi-portable interface
21:20:01 <psygnisfive> i could code it in PHP actually
21:20:09 <psygnisfive> but then it'd _have_ to be on my server and i dislike that idea
21:20:10 <oklopol> php is worse than js
21:20:16 <psygnisfive> true, but php is more portable
21:20:28 <oklopol> yeah tell me about portability.
21:20:31 <psygnisfive> in that it runs backend not locally so conditions never change
21:20:37 <jayCampbell> there are some interesting environments for javascript these days
21:20:43 <oklopol> we all know what a massive fuck about it i give
21:20:51 <Slereah_> Scratch that, I'll do it myself!
21:21:00 <Slereah_> With BLOOD AND BONES!
21:21:05 <psygnisfive> ideally i'd like to write this in scheme but scheme doesnt have a convenient UI system.
21:21:05 <Slereah_> Are blood and bones TC?
21:21:11 <Slereah_> UI?
21:21:17 <psygnisfive> yes
21:21:26 <Slereah_> Oh, user interface?
21:21:40 <psygnisfive> i can plug my JS code directly into an html file and get all the UI crap out of that
21:21:50 <psygnisfive> input and output for free, with hardly any work.
21:22:10 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:22:21 <Slereah_> Hm. I wonder if I can easily do graphs as a GUI with Python
21:22:22 <psygnisfive> i should probably migrate this shit over to ObjC and make an _actual_ program
21:22:23 <psygnisfive> but
21:22:24 <Slereah_> Lessee
21:22:50 <psygnisfive> i want this to remain web-workable so i should probably do it in PHP. but i hate php :(
21:23:03 <psygnisfive> ok im off to get foods
21:23:04 <psygnisfive> bye <3
21:23:41 <Slereah_> Do it in scheme and a scheme interpreter in PHP
21:23:45 <Slereah_> Or something
21:29:49 <oklopol> lol, there are no videos on youtube of someone actually beating http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html by running
21:32:00 <Slereah_> Yay, I ran 2 meters :D
21:32:08 <oklopol> i ran a hundred
21:32:16 <oklopol> shoppe ->
21:33:37 -!- ais523 has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Rules: ehird may not talk in this channel, and optbot may not set the topic ..
21:33:50 <ais523> it feels wrong to me that channel topics don't have edit summaries...
21:34:11 <Slereah_> They have. On mIRC at least
21:34:15 <Slereah_> Also in the logs, technically
21:38:23 -!- oerjan has joined.
21:38:27 -!- ehird has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
21:38:29 <ehird> osnap
21:39:05 <ais523> +ul (:aSS):aSS
21:39:05 <thutubot_> (:aSS):aSS
21:39:05 <thutubot> (:aSS):aSS
21:39:11 <Slereah_> Ass.
21:41:46 <AnMaster> ais523, hi
21:41:47 <AnMaster> btw
21:42:29 <AnMaster> why are computer architectures called "architectures"
21:42:35 <AnMaster> how is it related to houses?
21:44:17 <Slereah_> Architecture isn't necessarily related to houses.
21:44:50 <AnMaster> hm
21:44:53 <MizardX> "As documentation, usually based on drawings, architecture defines the structure and/or behavior of a building or any other kind of system that is to be or has been constructed." -- wikipedia
21:44:54 <AnMaster> WLIW arch
21:44:59 <AnMaster> no not VLIW
21:45:01 <AnMaster> but WLIW
21:45:27 <AnMaster> VLIW is Very Long Instruction word
21:45:34 <AnMaster> Word*
21:45:45 <AnMaster> but I think WLIW is kind of neat
21:45:58 <AnMaster> Wood Logs In Walls
21:51:18 <oerjan> +ul (:aSSorted):aSSorted
21:51:18 <thutubot_> (:aSSorted):aSSorted
21:51:18 <thutubot> (:aSSorted):aSSorted
21:51:26 <Slereah_> o u
21:51:39 <Slereah_> Is there an unlambda bot here?
21:51:47 <oerjan> NAFAIK
21:52:00 <ais523> Slereah_: not yet
21:52:06 <ehird> (:aSSorted):aSSorted is an invalid program
21:52:08 <ais523> oerjan: stop exploiting bugs in thutubot
21:52:15 <oerjan> ok
21:52:17 <Slereah_> Heh.
21:52:24 <Slereah_> But, ais523
21:52:27 <oerjan> +ul (:aSS(orted):aSS(orted)
21:52:28 <thutubot> ...out of time!
21:52:28 <thutubot_> ...out of time!
21:52:32 <oerjan> oops
21:52:33 <Slereah_> RULES ARE MEANT TO BE BROKEN
21:52:37 <oerjan> +ul (:aSS(orted)):aSS(orted)
21:52:38 <thutubot_> (:aSS(orted)):aSS(orted)
21:52:38 <thutubot> (:aSS(orted)):aSS(orted)
21:54:12 <Deewiant> ~ul (:aSS(orted)):aSS(orted)
21:54:30 <oerjan> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS(orry about this...)
21:54:31 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:31 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:31 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:31 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:31 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:31 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:31 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:31 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:31 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:32 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:32 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:32 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:33 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:34 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:35 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:36 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:37 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:37 <ehird> oerjan: i love you
21:54:38 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:39 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:40 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:41 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:41 <Slereah_> :D
21:54:42 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:43 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:44 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:45 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:46 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:47 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:48 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:49 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:50 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:51 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:52 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:53 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:54 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:55 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:56 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:57 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:58 <Deewiant> why the hell are there two thutubots here anyway
21:54:58 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:54:59 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:00 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:01 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:02 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:03 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:04 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:05 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:06 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:07 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:08 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:09 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:09 <oklopol> :D
21:55:10 <Deewiant> ^ul (:aSS(orted)):aSS(orted)
21:55:10 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:10 <fungot> (:aSS(orted)):aSS(orted)
21:55:11 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:12 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:12 <Slereah_> For ass related purposes
21:55:13 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:13 <ehird> this is great
21:55:14 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:15 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:16 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:17 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:18 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:19 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:20 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:21 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:22 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:23 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:24 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:25 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:26 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:27 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:28 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:29 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:30 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:31 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:31 <ehird> +ul ((^ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:32 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:33 <thutubot_> +ul ((^ul )S:aSS)(^ul )S:aSS
21:55:34 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:35 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:36 <thutubot> +ul ((^ul )S:aSS)(^ul )S:aSS
21:55:37 <thutubot_> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:37 <Deewiant> ^ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(^ul )S:aSS
21:55:38 <fungot> ^ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:38 <thutubot> ^ul ((^ul )S:aSS)(^ul )S:aSS
21:55:39 -!- thutubot_ has quit ("ThutuBot quitting").
21:55:40 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:42 <thutubot> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:48 <ehird> +ul (+ul )S:aSS)(^ul )S:aSS
21:55:49 <thutubot> +ul ...: out of stack!
21:55:52 <ehird> +ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(^ul )S:aSS
21:55:53 <thutubot> ^ul ((+ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:55:53 <Slereah_> And thus thutubot died the way he lived
21:55:54 <ais523> sorry ehird...
21:56:00 <Deewiant> ^ul ((^ul )S:aSS)(+ul )S:aSS
21:56:00 <fungot> +ul ((^ul )S:aSS)(^ul )S:aSS
21:56:00 <thutubot> ^ul ((^ul )S:aSS)(^ul )S:aSS
21:56:09 <ehird> Deewiant: MAKE IT WORK >::(
21:56:22 <Deewiant> ehird: that works, to an extent, but fungot is smarter
21:56:23 <fungot> Deewiant: mr., bees :) different hives visiting different kinds :) flowers are concerned, there seems to be from a cross with a fresh stock, and :)/ upper margin is not at all agree, but merely pro bono fnord fnord.
21:56:30 <Deewiant> ... about some things
21:58:17 <oklopol> Slereah_: what book is that kolmogorov thing from btw?
21:58:45 <Slereah_> oklopol : One of those best sellers book that everyone can find!
21:59:04 <Slereah_> "American Mathematical Society Translations Series 2 Volume 29"
21:59:16 <Slereah_> That's why I wanted to put it there, it's very hard to find
21:59:37 <oklopol> :D
21:59:51 <oklopol> "series 2 volume 29", i'm sure there's a torrent :P
22:00:09 <Slereah_> oklopol : You can try, but I sure as hell didn't find any!
22:00:39 <oklopol> where did you get it?
22:00:56 <Slereah_> Used book website.
22:02:33 <Slereah_> I also want to buy "Science without numbers", but it's fucking expensive as hell
22:02:46 <Slereah_> It's been out of print for 20 years, so the books are like $170
22:02:59 <oklopol> your life is so much more exciting than mine
22:03:27 <Slereah_> it also involves more gay sex
22:04:54 <oklopol> does that make it less *exciting*?
22:05:09 <oerjan> sex is teh boring
22:05:22 <olsner> sex? on
22:05:30 <Slereah_> How would you know, oerjan?
22:05:31 <Slereah_> Zing!
22:05:35 <oerjan> true, true
22:06:04 <olsner> oh, never mind, I think I'll just not complete that sentence
22:06:35 <oerjan> that just means we'll have to do it
22:06:47 <oerjan> sex? on top of a zebra
22:07:09 <Slereah_> I'd do it.
22:07:18 <Slereah_> Especially if it's WITH THE ZEBRA
22:07:34 <oerjan> i wanted to leave that ambiguous
22:09:19 <oklopol> Slereah_ doesn't understand puns
22:09:30 <oklopol> hmm
22:09:31 <oklopol> wait
22:09:41 <oklopol> i was going to make a joke, but it doesn't work.
22:10:01 <oerjan> you and your puny jokes
22:10:29 <oklopol> that one kills year after year,.
22:10:48 <Slereah_> I understand. I just want to have sex with a zebra.
22:11:20 <oklopol> well, "zebra" is a cool word i guess.
22:11:53 <Asztal> how do you pronounce it?
22:12:08 <oerjan> the x is silent
22:13:00 <oklopol> also invisible.
22:13:08 <oerjan> true that
22:13:15 <Slereah_> You also can't feel it
22:13:27 <oklopol> yeah you can only smell it
22:13:38 <Slereah_> It smells of zebra sex.
22:14:01 <oklopol> so does your face
22:14:03 <oklopol> hmm.
22:14:07 <oklopol> why am i still not reading
22:14:17 <oklopol> i haven't had such an unproductive day in months.
22:14:34 <oerjan> Asztal: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/zebra claims americans and brits pronounce it differently
22:14:36 <oklopol> alcohol = bad
22:15:30 <Asztal> oerjan: yes, I pronounce it the british way, which one would you use?
22:15:59 <oerjan> well before i looked it up i thought it was long e, so american
22:16:22 <Asztal> I guess you also say the letter Z as zee?
22:16:26 <oerjan> yez
22:16:35 <oerjan> or wait
22:16:40 <oerjan> you mean the letter itself
22:16:45 <Slereah_> Zedbra
22:16:47 <Slereah_> Zodbra
22:16:54 <oerjan> i guess i learned it as zed
22:17:09 <oklopol> i say it as "zing"
22:17:19 <Slereah_> KNEEL BEFORE ZOD
22:18:12 * oerjan hides behind a lead wall
22:18:33 <oklopol> okay. i'm going to leave now. if i come back in less than, say, three hours, please say something insulting about my mother
22:18:37 <oklopol> tha'll teach me.
22:18:38 <oklopol> ->
22:19:03 <oerjan> i think it would be unhealthy to claim Zod had a bra, though
22:19:38 <Slereah_> Iunno, that suit wasn't very manly.
22:20:41 <Slereah_> http://www.chestert-shirtprinter.co.uk/images/t-shirt-wholesale/Cool%20t-shirts/Zod-Sticker.jpg
22:20:57 <Slereah_> Would you really bet money on the fact that this guy has no bra?
22:25:25 <psygnisfive> general zod?
22:25:26 <psygnisfive> whats that from
22:25:27 <psygnisfive> ?
22:25:37 <Slereah_> Superman
22:25:40 <Slereah_> The second movie.
22:27:08 <psygnisfive> oh yes right
22:27:21 * psygnisfive never saw
22:28:54 <Slereah_> You should see the first movie.
22:29:05 <Slereah_> You can see a NAKED LITTLE BOY in it D:
22:29:52 <psygnisfive> OH?
22:29:54 <psygnisfive> YUM.
22:30:29 <Slereah_> Yeah
22:30:43 <Slereah_> When the little Superman gets out of his vessel.
22:31:01 <Slereah_> I guess pedophilia wasn't such a big scare back then!
22:38:09 <warrie> Or back when the Simpsons Movie came out.
22:39:38 <Slereah_> It's all part of the gay agenda, warrie
22:39:44 <Slereah_> Just so they can have sex with little boys
22:41:18 * warrie nods
23:06:05 <AnMaster> night
23:06:48 <oerjan> indeed it is
23:32:20 <SimonRC> tumtitum
23:33:29 <SimonRC> and there is A Cock and Bull Story, with its painful incident when the author (as a young boy) was pissing out of a window.
23:33:35 <SimonRC> (the type that slides up)
23:47:51 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:58:16 <AnMaster> Deewiant, just got your mail \o/
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