00:05:54 <ehird> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Reaper cool
00:16:19 <ehird> Slereah_: !!!!!!!!!
00:16:19 <ehird> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Esme&action=history
00:16:30 <ehird> now with PERL SUPPORT
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00:34:55 -!- ehird has set topic: (sb-ext:be-saved-by-lisp-and-live :jesus t) http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
00:36:34 <ehird> http://github.com/fare How the mighty have fallen. Tunes project lead on github ;-)
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05:04:23 <oerjan> <bsmntbombdood> what's zelda and pokeman?
05:04:35 <oerjan> wait a minute, even _i_ know that
05:04:44 <oerjan> not that i have played them though
05:05:49 <oerjan> * AnMaster looks for oerjan to explain
05:06:06 <oerjan> it's because swedes are actually living their lives backwards, you see
05:07:30 <oerjan> <oklopol> oh btw i *am* 20
05:08:15 <oerjan> <oklopol> "i congratulate you after i shoot you"
05:08:25 <oerjan> no, that would be the finnish method
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05:32:59 <Slereah_> http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1185926215
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07:53:46 <oklopol> A Turing tarpit is a language that aims for Turing-completeness in an arbitrarily small number of linguistic elements - ideally, as few as possible. <<< i'm pretty sure you could make something that qualifies as a turing tarpit but had tons of commands
07:54:20 <oklopol> i guess that does say "as few as possible"
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07:56:05 <oklopol> oerjan: not that i have played them though <<< not surprising, straight people rarely play pokeman
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08:44:46 <oklopol> heh. did LZW manually for a course exercise
08:44:51 <oklopol> everyone got a different answer :D
08:45:06 <oklopol> (probably needless to point out mine was the only correct one)
08:46:46 <oklopol> it's this simple compression algo where you always extend the codeword you used last.
08:46:59 <oklopol> so that you could send it as one symbol next time
08:47:42 <oklopol> so essentially you trivial the trivial to achieve the trivial.
08:54:22 <psygnisfive> put a trivial in your trivial so you can trivial while you trivial?
09:01:26 <oklopol> oh. this is the last lecture.
09:02:29 <oklopol> i should probably check these things before coming here, last week i waited two hours for a lecture that had been cancelled
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09:10:01 <oklopol> blah, i need a larger brain
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11:23:05 <AnMaster> <oerjan> it's because swedes are actually living their lives backwards, you see <-- damn, you revealed the secret!
11:24:35 <okotin> hello AnMaster i'm okotin
11:25:13 <okotin> it means "the thing that okos"
11:25:35 <okotin> one of our lectures is called "okhotin"
11:25:47 <okotin> i removed the typo and adapted my nick (for now)
11:38:24 <AnMaster> "okotin" is quite close to "kokain" when you think about it
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14:41:35 <ehird> lol I wondered, why on earth can't I connect to irc lolol?
14:41:37 <ehird> then i realised, lol
14:41:39 <ehird> my domain expired lol ^)^
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14:44:02 <ehird> 03:38:24 <AnMaster> "okotin" is quite close to "kokain" when you think about it
14:44:52 <ehird> kind of like kangaroo is close to machine.
14:44:57 <okotin> yeah sorry for advocating drugs
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14:45:17 <oklopol> ...is this too close to marijuana?
14:45:24 <AnMaster> I wasn't complaining. I was just making an observation :P
14:46:23 <oklopol> complanations and observations both usually need to make sense, in general
14:47:47 <oklopol> that's what i was going for
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14:59:42 <AnMaster> oklopol, "complanate" sounds French?
15:00:27 <ehird> "Or another user might be uninterested in Western isolationism, and instead prefer culturally insulting approximation of Eastern languages by choosing to store pathnames in UTF-8, allowing the full range of Unicode text in his pathnames."
15:02:04 <AnMaster> ehird, um I don't remember which parts of unicode UTF-8 can't represent...
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15:02:13 <AnMaster> wasn't it only some unused areas?
15:02:43 <AnMaster> ehird, also where was the quote from
15:05:04 <fizzie> The quote pretty much says "choosing UTF-8, which allows the full range of Unicode text".
15:05:40 <AnMaster> fizzie, but isn't that allowed anyway? UTF-8 in path names
15:06:26 <AnMaster> fizzie, why was it considering UTF-8 "culturally insulting approximation of Eastern languages"
15:08:18 <jix> hmm at least the official chinese character encoding uses unicode too...
15:08:26 <jix> but it remains compatible to older encodings
15:08:29 <fizzie> I don't really know Eastern languages that well, so I can't really guess. Maybe they've combined some stuff? Although there's the CJK compatibility range and everything.
15:08:30 <ehird> AnMaster: Han unification.
15:08:34 <ehird> It's why Unicode is uncommon in asia. (UTF-8 moreso, since it's biased heavily towards English...)
15:08:38 <ehird> fizzie: combined some stuff - han unification
15:10:18 <jix> but using a regional encoding that would only encode one language isn't any better :/
15:11:44 <ehird> Hot damn, Safari 4 is a ripoff of Chrome.
15:11:46 <ehird> It's... kind of ugly.
15:11:47 <ehird> The tabs are in the title bar. Excuse me, Apple, OS X doesn't work like that.
15:12:23 <ehird> Also the refresh button is in the location bar just like MobileSafari.
15:12:28 <ehird> What were they smoking.
15:14:12 <ehird> I guess I will get used to it.
15:14:45 <fizzie> Why are there no tabs in these screenshots? Do you have some?
15:14:56 <Deewiant> fizzie: http://www.apple.com/safari/whats-new.html#tabs
15:15:51 <ehird> Yeah it's really pretty awful, I hope the y fix that.
15:16:01 <fizzie> Goggel's image search founded me silly images; should've navigated straight there, I guess.
15:16:02 <ehird> http://images.apple.com/safari/images/overlay-windows-1-20090217.png Oh good lord.
15:16:05 <ehird> It is identical to Chrome.
15:16:17 <ehird> look at those two buttons to the right. And the placement of the add bookmark button.
15:16:22 <ehird> That is through and through a chrome ripoff.
15:16:35 <fizzie> Heh, the hype is funny. "Now Safari takes tabbed browsing to new heights — to the very top of the browser window — instantly providing more room for you to enjoy the sites you’re reading."
15:16:36 <Deewiant> What's the 'add bookmark' button; I don't speak icon
15:16:58 <ehird> Deewiant: The + in the address bar
15:17:01 <Deewiant> s/speak/read/ would be more appropriate I suppose
15:17:02 <ehird> exactly how google chrome puts it
15:17:22 <ehird> also, those iicons to the right are in fact the actual google chrome ones
15:17:44 <ehird> I guess they put the tab bar like this to be slightly different, but it's worse
15:18:01 <ehird> Just build Chromium and call it Safari, apple :P
15:19:11 <ehird> ... They ditched webkit?
15:23:32 <ehird> This is very fast, though. Which is nice.
15:25:47 <ehird> http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/7zt0o/fuck_you_vista_i_wont_even_live_that_long_pic/c07usxj
15:28:13 <ehird> For each of the near term reporting requirements (major communications, formula block grant allocations, weekly reports) agencies are required to provide a feed (preferred: Atom 1.0, acceptable: RSS) of the information so that content can be delivered via subscription.
15:28:17 <ehird> — US Stimulus Bill
15:50:25 <ehird> http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/eler-highlights-2008
15:51:01 <ehird> first comic since december 2007. mazing.
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16:56:06 <ehird> i listen to only Why Cooperation With RMS Is Impossible and no other audial tones
16:58:42 <ehird> christel. what kind of shitty system does freenode run on.
16:58:58 <ehird> you can restore to a DB without restarting services.
17:01:18 <ehird> http://www.geocities.com/therealtroll/people/ <-- only credits rob pike in "special notice". sheesh!
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17:15:32 <ehird> if I find #lisp friendly, does that mean I've turned into an asshole myself? :D
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17:21:45 * oerjan swats AnMaster and olsner -----###
17:22:15 <oerjan> BECAUSE I GOT SPAM FROM SWEDEN TODAY
17:24:49 <oerjan> <oklopol> oerjan: not that i have played them though <<< not surprising, straight people rarely play pokeman
17:25:04 <oerjan> i assume this is a pun on the misspelling, or something
17:30:17 <olsner> spend most of yesterday merging stuff (in CVS of all things), and most of today answering e-mails with stupid questions and lamenting over stupid misconceptions and ideas
17:30:31 <ehird> isn't there a cvs-git bridge?
17:31:27 <ais523> pretty much any version control system can be converted into any other, with various amounts of lost information
17:32:00 <olsner> yeah, tried it, didn't help a lot... after the git magic merge thing was done, i gave me pieces of subtle garbage in the patches I wanted to merge that shouldn't be there
17:33:49 <olsner> eventually, I merged half of it from the original sources in another CVS branch and the other half from the old branch
17:34:03 <olsner> the good old manual 5-way merge
17:37:06 <olsner> git managed to seriously screw some things up too, like I accidentally used push the wrong way, upon which git completely removed the branch I was working on
17:39:38 <olsner> I was just lucky I had a recent print-out of the most recent checkin on that branch, just echoing that out into .git/refs/heads/<branch> seemed to actually work
17:40:42 <olsner> (continues ranting) git seems to make an excellent storage back-end for a version control system, just doesn't have all the horses in the ui stables yet
17:41:04 * olsner pops a vein and falls over and dies
17:41:22 <ais523> I don't really like git UI-wise
17:43:23 <olsner> it also has a tendency to do things like ask "[something went wrong,] Have you run git add?", even when it's completely inappropriate (or impossible) to actually to git add
17:43:54 <oklopol> oerjan: i assume this is a pun on the misspelling, or something <<< yes, wasn't that kinda obvious
17:44:08 <ehird> git's UI is nice, it just takes getting used to
17:44:17 <oklopol> hmm, right, i guess i could've said that about pokemon too
17:44:59 <olsner> cvs actually is a good ui for cvs, it just has a sucky backend for doing version control
17:45:30 <ehird> horse shit is a good UI for horse shit, it just has a sucky backend for smell
17:46:29 <ehird> [17:22:16] <oerjan> BECAUSE I GOT SPAM FROM SWEDEN TODAY
17:46:35 <ehird> especially 2 lines down!
17:46:42 <olsner> especially when all-caps
17:46:52 <ehird> yes, so easy to miss
17:46:53 <olsner> removed by the subconscious troll-filter
17:46:53 <oerjan> well i am used to him being unable to read 2 lines _up_ ....
17:47:21 <olsner> haha, yeah, 2 lines down is kind of hard, unless you've got some kind of temporal paradox working for you
17:47:44 <ais523> so if I sent an email to oerjan, would it, platonically speaking, be spam?
17:47:57 <oklopol> somekinda temporal paradox... like reading backwards?
17:48:00 <oerjan> well i did mention swedes living backwards yesterday
17:48:16 <oerjan> ais523: platonically speaking, probably not
17:49:50 <ehird> what about pragtonically
17:51:44 <AnMaster> any lines in all caps look like the background colour to me
17:51:59 <ehird> ANMASTER IS A POOPY HEA
17:52:05 <oklopol> I'M GONNA BECOME A BIOLOGIST
17:52:19 <olsner> why are you all sending empty lines?
17:52:28 <AnMaster> bbl, going to setup a wireless phone for parents...
17:52:39 <oerjan> ehird: NICE TO MEET YOU MR. SAMSA
17:53:49 <oerjan> AnMaster: do they want it set up so kids cannot use it? :D
17:55:00 * AnMaster searches for some language he can read in the multi-lingual manual
17:56:17 <oerjan> Ok fnedbully gradwe gepoly telefony swa bedsky sba dowuto "ON" ...
18:00:34 <oerjan> Gebo antennow sgedaty staciona basiska vu lebdotu growny.
18:08:04 <ehird> http://s3.amazonaws.com/colourlovers.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/t-mobile_copyright_magenta.jpg
18:45:22 <ehird> "If you send disparaging E-mails about me to someone else and I find out about it, I can and will pursue defamation charges. I have an excellent lawyer and I rather doubt you do."
18:45:26 <ehird> Uh... Go fuck yourself.
18:45:42 <ehird> "If you use other people’s sites, including blogs, to attack me personally, I can and will do all of the same things I’d do if you mailed me personally. I will also lobby to have your comments removed and your commenting privileges permanently banned."
18:45:52 <ehird> You are a dicksucker. Now get lament or fizzie to ban me.
18:46:35 * oerjan thinks he saw that somewhere
18:46:54 <ehird> It's on Joe Clark's site.
18:47:00 <oerjan> yeah but it wasn't recently i saw it
18:47:06 <ehird> it was an old post
18:47:20 <ehird> wait, I think he's gay
18:47:23 <ehird> dicksucker isn't much of an insult
18:48:32 <oerjan> also, i expect that guy has known for a _long_ time that it backfired. so i'd say you _are_ spamming here.
18:48:50 <ehird> I never done got banned from spamming here before :-D
18:49:29 <oerjan> of course not, we are more civilized here -----###
18:49:30 <ehird> Hmm. I wonder how to best express myself ... ah!
18:49:42 <ehird> Joe Clark, get a life and shut up. Stop cluttering the internet with your inane prattle. Go aestivate under a rock somewhere.
18:49:54 <ehird> You see, your disclaimer is not in the letter of the law, hence is invalid. Therefore, while you may think you have cleverly
18:49:58 <ehird> found a loophole you are just making an annoyance of yourself.
18:50:05 <ehird> To be fair, I suppose I must admit the possibility that you were just trying to
18:50:14 <ehird> get people riled up before renouncing your 'powers', but
18:50:20 <ehird> common sane and the courts will do that anyway.
18:50:23 <ehird> In short, feep off and die.
18:50:28 <ehird> --Yittra, er, ehird.
18:50:37 <ehird> For all that typing, only ais523, comex and maybe oerjan will get that.
18:50:40 <ehird> What a waste of time.
18:53:51 <ehird> I killed the channel
18:55:24 <oerjan> nothing sensible said for an hour
18:56:24 <ehird> oerjan: for the record, _did_ you get that?
18:56:41 <oklopol> why will only they get it?
18:56:53 <oklopol> i don't like it when things i've gotten are taken away from me.
18:57:13 <ehird> oklopol: well, it's a rather obscure reference.
18:57:30 <ais523> ehird: I only /just/ got it
18:57:39 <ehird> specifically, it's the first reply to an obscure post on a message board used to play an obscure game in 1992
18:57:49 <oklopol> i assumed it was a nomic ref
18:57:51 <ehird> (oerjan: Lindrum's judgment, from NomicWorld)
18:57:56 <ehird> oklopol: you win $5
18:58:08 <ehird> well not lindrum's judgment
18:58:09 <ehird> the first reply to it
18:58:25 <ehird> to quote the original reply that I madlib'd:
18:58:35 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: I'd rather not do that again
18:58:41 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: yeah you're pretty fucking insane alright
18:59:02 <ehird> Get a life, lindrum (Yittra, Sep 28 05:59)
18:59:02 <ehird> LIndrum, get a life and shut up. Stop cluttering the noticeboard with
18:59:02 <ehird> your inane prattle. Go aestivate under a rock somewhere.
18:59:02 <ehird> You see, your judgement is not in the spirit of the game, hence
18:59:04 <ehird> is illegal. Therefore, while you may think you have cleverly found
18:59:12 <ehird> a loophole you are just making an annoyance of yourself. To be fair, I
18:59:13 <ehird> suppose I must admit the possibility that you were just tring to
18:59:14 <ehird> get the game going before renouncing your 'powers' , but
18:59:15 <ehird> 1015 and 1016 will do that anyway. In short, feep off and die.
18:59:16 <ehird> that was more of a flood than I expected
18:59:18 <ehird> IRC is so much bigger than a web browser. or something.
18:59:34 <oklopol> (i found it funnier without the reference)
18:59:52 <ehird> maybe I could get a phd in referenceless references
19:00:29 <oklopol> i usually do, references are only fun when they are very vague and complicated; usually i prefer original content
19:00:47 <ehird> oh fuck joe clark emailed me he's kicking down my door
19:00:49 <ehird> help help help help help
19:01:13 <ehird> JOE CLARK IS GOING TO KILL MEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
19:02:03 <oerjan> bah he's just an average joe
19:02:34 <ehird> http://i42.tinypic.com/akjp91.jpg <-- Joe Clark = yasser arafat
19:02:39 <oklopol> well. the colors are on my side
19:02:57 <oklopol> i love how the hat appears when he turns his head
19:03:58 <ehird> see above, anmaster
19:04:01 <ehird> http://i41.tinypic.com/nbujqw.jpg
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19:05:14 <oklopol> also i'm not actually asking who he is.
19:05:18 <ehird> also he's a pirate
19:05:22 <ehird> a pirate ninja failure.
19:05:25 <oklopol> i'm *saying* who's that guy
19:05:41 <oklopol> it's a whole different thing.
19:06:10 <oklopol> it only makes as much sense as you can consume.
19:06:19 <oklopol> oh that actually worked as an insult
19:07:17 <oklopol> well, this has been a nice battle of minds, but i need to go again
19:07:54 <ehird> i'm not sure how to react
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20:05:39 <ehird> if anyone here does common lisp development
20:05:44 <ehird> don't use asdf-install, use cl-build
20:13:08 <ehird> ais523: if I have a program with its executable and data files in one directory, and it depends on them like that, how would you do it? I'm considering putting it in /usr/local/share/<appname>/ then symlinking the binary in /usr/local/bin/
20:13:37 <ais523> that's usual, although I don't quite think that works
20:13:42 <ais523> as it won't see them as all in the same directory
20:13:52 <ehird> it follows symlinks
20:13:57 <ais523> the usual method I've seen is to put the app and all its files in a subdirectory of /usr/lib and use a shellscript to call it
20:14:07 <ais523> no idea why people normally put them in /usr/lib not /usr/share though
20:14:17 <ehird> share is for documents
20:16:09 <oerjan> cut them off before they take over
20:17:40 <oklopol> they'd just grow back again
20:18:27 <oerjan> well so do nails, you'll just have to do it regularly
20:18:35 <oklopol> i don't have nails, i'm a lizard.
20:19:06 <oklopol> i have mentioned that multiple times
20:19:25 <oerjan> not in this channel i think
20:19:46 <oerjan> but ehird might be able to check that
20:23:09 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure vista's minesweeper's mine algo has changed from the earlier ones
20:23:26 <oklopol> about every 10th is passable
20:23:43 <oklopol> (also that's an underestimate)
20:24:24 <comex> http://www.ivona.com/say/Q4fIe7hL
20:25:05 <comex> http://www.ivona.com/say/x5C8Y4n0
20:25:49 <oklopol> that's getting pretty good
20:26:12 <oklopol> the messages there are a bit stupid ofc
20:26:45 <comex> no, the second one is great
20:26:50 <oerjan> sure it's not just the default options for no. bombs vs. board size which have changed?
20:27:09 <oklopol> hmm. there were no instances of me telling that.
20:27:54 <oklopol> well. i guess it's my remembering the nonexistant thing again.
20:28:11 <oklopol> and oerjan, the options have not changed
20:28:30 <oklopol> not that minesweeper can be hard
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20:33:49 <oerjan> i would have thought the mines were randomly distributed, except that i've read that if the first click is on a mine, it is moved, and that this is to the first vacant spot from the top left iirc. in the original that is.
20:34:45 <oerjan> which means that starting in the top left and then trying the one to the right is slightly more dangerous
20:35:09 <oerjan> or taking the top left second, i guess
20:35:44 <oerjan> well i'm not sure if i recall exactly right but i think the movement _wasn't_ to a random spot
20:35:46 <AnMaster> I thought it just randomly selected a game after I clicked the first place
20:35:59 <ais523> I know that you never click a mine first turn
20:36:01 <AnMaster> and tried again if it had a mine there
20:36:05 <ais523> but I don't know what method it uses to prevent that
20:36:18 <AnMaster> ais523, it could differ between implementations
20:36:21 <oerjan> well i'm sure there's a faq somewhere
20:36:30 <ais523> AnMaster: I'm referring to the Windows XP implementation
20:36:47 <ais523> I've implemented Minesweeper myself, it didn't have the first-turn exemption
20:36:51 <ais523> it's not a hard program to write!
20:37:15 <oerjan> it wouldn't be hard to do the first-turn exemption with the rest random, either
20:37:39 <AnMaster> you could place it at a random spot
20:38:03 <oerjan> you can just fill in after you click, or move it to a random spot (might need retry)
20:38:18 <AnMaster> oerjan, yeah.. like what I just said
20:38:19 <oerjan> well that's three options
20:38:50 <oerjan> but your options didn't exhaust every possibility :D
20:39:19 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> you could place it at a random spot
20:39:22 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> or generate a new random game
20:39:25 <AnMaster> <oerjan> you can just fill in after you click, or move it to a random spot (might need retry)
20:39:59 <AnMaster> oerjan, you mentioned move top left before
20:40:23 <oerjan> my first option means that you don't need to generate anything before clicking, saves work
20:40:25 <jix> hmmm what would a minesweeper that allows multiple mines on one spot be like...
20:40:47 <AnMaster> jix, um hard since count would be off
20:40:54 <jix> but only in one direction
20:41:03 <oerjan> or actually maybe not... maybe generating and then moving is more efficient, since you don't need to check on every placement
20:41:53 <oerjan> they should all be equivalent statistically, which the move to top left isn't.
20:41:59 <AnMaster> oerjan, and you could all the free spots to an array and then generate a random number as an index into that array
20:42:23 <AnMaster> just don't do random() % list_size
20:42:29 <oerjan> hm true, since you have to check collisions anyhow
20:42:53 <jix> AnMaster: you can do something equivalent without wasting space for the array
20:42:55 <oerjan> ah right so you _have_ to check, might just generate afterward then
20:43:15 <jix> you generate a random number which is < the number of free spots
20:43:31 <AnMaster> jix, and then use that as an index into the nth free spot
20:43:37 <jix> iterate through all mines... and if index of mine <= randNum .... radnNum++
20:43:55 <jix> exiting early as soon as mine > randNum
20:44:09 <oerjan> jix: er that's O(n^2) to place the mines, sheesh
20:44:17 <jix> oerjan: it's about moving one mine
20:44:22 <AnMaster> btw, I have "3D snake" on my phone... anyone done 3D mines yet?
20:44:54 <oerjan> but it is still likely more inefficient than just choose and retry if collision
20:45:03 <AnMaster> idea 2: state the yield of the mine
20:45:08 <jix> oerjan: but it's worst case is O(n)
20:45:29 <AnMaster> mine sweeper with hitpoints and powerups!
20:45:35 <jix> while retry and collision has a worst case that never exits
20:45:58 <AnMaster> <jix> oerjan: but it's worst case is O(n)
20:46:17 <jix> AnMaster: to place one mine into an existing field the worst case is O(n) with my algorithm
20:46:18 <oerjan> but an average case that is excellent unless you have too many mines
20:46:39 <jix> if you use mine to place all mines
20:46:53 <oerjan> um i confused array size and number of mines somewhat
20:46:57 <jix> in that case i indeed would generate an array with free spots
20:47:05 <jix> and then choose one by random...
20:47:08 <AnMaster> get an FPGA and make an O(1) variant in hardware :P
20:47:20 <AnMaster> like a sorting network in hardware is O(1)
20:48:49 <AnMaster> anyway number of positions is usually small so that O(n) doesn't matter really
20:48:49 <oerjan> cannot be O(1) if the size is arbitrary (which a finite computer cannot handle anyway)
20:49:20 <AnMaster> I mean O doesn't matter at small sizes really
20:49:31 <AnMaster> a binary search is better than a linear search
20:49:51 <AnMaster> my tests shows a simple linear search is faster for small data sets
20:50:17 <jix> uhm a binary search is very simple to implement efficiently tho
20:50:18 <ais523> linear searches are easier to optimise, and a tighter loop
20:50:23 <ais523> they can even be unrolled if necessary
20:50:37 <ais523> come to think of it, binary search can be unrolled too, but I don't know of a compiler capable of it
20:50:42 <oerjan> whatever you just need some generic way of choosing m objects from n slots without replacement
20:50:44 <AnMaster> ais523, yeah it could probably since I was operating on a static const array of a fixed size
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20:51:35 <oerjan> error case is error case
20:51:57 <AnMaster> really the pigeonhole principle assumes the pigeons are average size...
20:52:09 <AnMaster> without food for some time you could stuff more than one in one box
20:58:14 <jix> basically you can adopt random shuffle agorithms that generate the sequence sequencially to exit after generating m elements
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21:01:41 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server").
21:20:53 <ehird> [20:42:23] <AnMaster> just don't do random() % list_size
21:20:57 <ehird> you said it's stupid
21:21:23 <AnMaster> ehird, for large list sizes yes
21:21:34 <ehird> no, it's fail because of the behaviour of random()
21:21:44 <ehird> specifically, modulo'ing it is retarded
21:23:28 <olsner> how are you supposed to use random() then?
21:23:49 <AnMaster> the main reason being that it won't be uniform, but also random() might be a very bad PRNG on $TARGET_LIBC
21:24:33 <AnMaster> olsner, I would recommend against it for any cryptographically sensitive applications at least ;P
21:25:14 <AnMaster> which reminds me, I need to replace random() % 4 in cfunge. I actually had plans to use FMT instead
21:25:56 <olsner> well, obviously, you need to use a known cryptographically secure prng, but for things like just generating a random list when you don't care *that* much about the randomness
21:26:22 <oerjan> % powerOf2 is presumably the worst case
21:26:45 <AnMaster> http://www.math.sci.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/~m-mat/MT/SFMT/index.html
21:27:06 <AnMaster> oerjan, err wouldn't % powerOf2 be the most uniform case?
21:27:39 <AnMaster> oerjan, assuming RAND_MAX == a power of two
21:27:48 <oerjan> no, because the low bits are what's often broken
21:28:21 <ais523> in fact, the standard random number generator on one widely-used old version of UNIX alternated even and odd numbes
21:28:45 <ais523> the high-order bits on such generators are more random-acting, though
21:28:48 <oerjan> that's what i referred to i guess
21:29:02 <AnMaster> bit shift it to get the middle bits?
21:30:08 <AnMaster> which means you need to figure out how to do this based on limits.h
21:32:24 <AnMaster> #if LONG_BIT < 8\n#error "Don't be silly..."\n#endif\nint myval = (random() >> (LONG_BIT - 5)) & 24;
21:32:46 <AnMaster> what do you think of the idea?
21:33:45 <ais523> random() / (RAND_MAX / max_I_want)
21:33:50 <ais523> is the standard formula
21:34:04 <ais523> and a lot simpler than what you're trying there, I think
21:34:18 <ais523> so I meant that you were complicating things more than you needed to be
21:34:33 * AnMaster is tired... why does random() / (RAND_MAX / max_I_want) work
21:35:13 <oerjan> it probably isn't quite uniform if max_I_want is not a power of 2
21:35:23 <ais523> but you can't get uniform then without rerolling
21:36:13 <oerjan> i guess checking if result > max_I_want then rerolling does it
21:36:14 <AnMaster> ehird, depends on what your next comment will be
21:36:22 <ehird> AnMaster: "It looked like lisp at first"
21:36:27 <ehird> i should name some software something that'll make people never use it. like, "Enron"
21:37:21 <ehird> yes, but it had parentheses, and alphanumeric names for things commonly done as symbols
21:37:26 <ehird> and the prompt looked lisp-esque
21:37:35 <AnMaster> ehird, well / is floating point...
21:37:36 <ehird> oerjan: "Auschwitz"
21:37:56 <ehird> "The Auschwitz compiler for the Hitler inferral programming language is now released."
21:37:58 <AnMaster> ehird, should I google after "Enron"?
21:38:04 <AnMaster> since you said "wants to never use it"
21:38:39 <ehird> AnMaster: it's not. sheesh.
21:38:54 <AnMaster> ehird, idea name it 2goatse1cup
21:39:15 <ehird> hmm, maybe "The Nigger-Faggot deductive logic system"
21:39:25 <ehird> yep, I think I've cracked it
21:39:55 <ehird> yeah, I'll sue microsoft
21:40:11 <ehird> "The Nigger Faggot Corporation, creators of the Nigger Faggot deductive logic system, today sued Microsoft."
21:40:34 <ehird> "Their spokesman, Faggoty McNigger, had this to say: 'Microsoft is infringing on our intellectual property of "being total douchebags" and "offending everyone".'"
21:40:49 <ehird> Slereah_: i'm the british branch.
21:41:06 <Slereah_> Did you watch Gay Nigger from Outer Space?
21:41:45 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayniggers_from_Outer_Space
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21:43:04 <ehird> [[It is said that in this review, Payne described scenes featuring the protagonist, Gay Nigger Jim, raping a toilet until he explodes, and a musical number entitled "Gay Niggers Eat Pigs and Fly on Penises Made Out of Ham and Brown Ham, Because They're Gay Niggers."]]
21:43:09 <ehird> honestly, I think it'd be better if that were true.
21:44:21 <oerjan> GNAA sounds like a troll name
21:44:38 <Slereah_> Gay Nigger Association of America
21:44:39 <AnMaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Outer_Space btw
21:44:55 * Slereah_ salutes those Internet Superheroes
21:45:05 <AnMaster> Slereah_, please ban them if they ever try to attack your irc network
21:45:35 <AnMaster> really I know from experience they don't have an unlimited amount of proxies
21:45:46 <ehird> [21:45:05] <AnMaster> Slereah_, please ban them if they ever try to attack your irc network
21:45:54 <ehird> stupidest line said all day
21:46:24 <ehird> ^ that was intentional
21:46:35 <Slereah_> ehird : http://jun.2chan.net:81/b/src/1235462364005.jpg
21:46:59 <AnMaster> Slereah_, should be made into a motivational poster
21:47:09 <AnMaster> Slereah_, or a lolkitten image
21:47:18 <ehird> The intentions are rather more sinister, AnMaster.
21:47:22 <Slereah_> Lolcats are a thing of the past, AnMaster
21:47:30 <Slereah_> They have degenerated in mainstream culture.
21:47:44 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers8/funnypicturesyoumaybemisq2.jpg
21:48:12 <AnMaster> Slereah_, so what is the current thing then?
21:48:18 <ehird> how many files do you have in there Slereah_
21:48:23 <AnMaster> Slereah_, all your base is "out" I believe
21:48:32 <ehird> your site is like a repository of... stuff.
21:48:50 <ehird> "Mardi 24 juillet 2001, 3eme millenaire."
21:48:51 <Slereah_> There are plenty of current things.
21:48:57 <ehird> "I became a millionaire 24th july 2001"
21:49:06 <Slereah_> ehird : It's not really my site nowadays
21:49:24 <ehird> is my translation correct :DD
21:49:55 <ehird> wut dus it rly say
21:50:49 <Slereah_> Tuesday 24th july 2001 3rd milleunium
21:50:59 <ehird> what is the context
21:51:16 <Slereah_> I was trying to put online some translations
21:54:26 -!- jix has quit ("...").
21:59:04 <oerjan> as opposed to Tuesday 24th july 2001 4th millennium
21:59:57 <oerjan> well i guess technically the Tuesday has the same problem
22:08:45 <AnMaster> poll: I want to read a new web comic. Should o go archive reading order of the stick or try to find some other one?
22:11:23 <ehird> though nobody's heard of it...
22:11:50 <AnMaster> that name *does* sound familiar
22:12:02 <ehird> http://hackles.org/cgi-bin/archives.pl?request=1
22:12:13 <ehird> it gets better as it goes.
22:12:16 <ehird> like, umm, every other comic.
22:12:26 <ehird> AnMaster: yes, since jan 04
22:12:36 <ehird> what was that yeah to
22:12:37 <AnMaster> read it all in like 2006 or so
22:12:49 <AnMaster> ehird, I think I read part of 1/0
22:13:08 <ehird> 1/0's probably my favourite comic, aside from the small part where it seems to start advocating monotheism
22:13:36 <AnMaster> ehird, well I haven't read all of 1/0, I gave up around comic 30 or so iirc
22:13:44 * oerjan doesn't recall that part
22:13:51 <ehird> 30 out of 1000 comics is not very much reading :P
22:13:58 <ehird> oerjan: the "fourth wall" plotline
22:14:29 <oerjan> of course it _did_ explore the concept of the stupidity of rejecting monotheism if everyone _could_ see evidence of god
22:14:44 <oerjan> but that's not exactly relevant to the real world
22:14:46 <ehird> oerjan: near the end it pretty much advocated monotheism
22:15:06 <ehird> I say this with knowledge of other strong implications Tailsteak is a monotheist, though
22:15:14 <ehird> oklopol: I forget the comic numbers
22:15:23 <oklopol> so it's kinda like south park is republican?
22:15:39 <ehird> wait, south park is republican?
22:15:41 <ehird> now this is news to me
22:15:46 <oklopol> i think Slereah_ said something like that
22:16:11 <oklopol> or something else, anyway that they were advocating something anyway
22:16:15 <Slereah_> South Park people are libertarians
22:16:25 <ehird> libertarianism is hardly republican
22:16:44 <oklopol> republicanism, libertanianism, urophilia, monotheism, who cares
22:16:57 <oklopol> point is clearly they do not feel strongly one way or the other
22:17:41 <oklopol> wouldn't it be uranophilic?
22:17:53 <oerjan> oklopol: hey that was my comment
22:18:26 <ehird> what the fuck does that mean
22:18:42 <ehird> nope, presumably because your jokes are terrible.
22:18:57 <oerjan> http://code.google.com/p/haspy/
22:19:07 <AnMaster> oerjan, now I didn't know about that
22:19:08 <oklopol> oerjan: and this here is my comment!
22:19:08 <ehird> oerjan: ooh, sexually attractive.
22:19:20 <oerjan> oklopol: you stole it from me!
22:19:22 <ehird> http://code.google.com/p/haspy/source/browse/#svn/trunk%3Fstate%3Dclosed
22:19:27 <AnMaster> oerjan, but actually kind of related
22:19:57 <ehird> it's... compelling
22:20:10 <oerjan> it was my second attempt after checking if "haspys" meant something
22:20:37 <oklopol> like it when you don't know why people have pee i guess
22:20:52 <oklopol> you like to laugh at spies.
22:21:18 <ehird> "H.A.S.P-y"-phillic, where H.A.S.P.Y. = Haskell and Sudo Python | Yes
22:21:25 <ehird> you like constructing nonsensical pipelines.
22:21:59 <oerjan> rube-goldberg pipelines
22:22:12 <oerjan> hm i guess there's no hyphen
22:22:50 <oklopol> AnMaster: i think we're ready to hear what haspy means.
22:23:14 <AnMaster> haskell and python <AnMaster> oerjan, but actually kind of related
22:23:52 <oklopol> oh. so it was *that* related.
22:24:00 <ehird> that's... rather stupid.
22:24:09 <AnMaster> ehird, hapyphilic is harder to say
22:24:10 <ehird> for one, it wasn't funny... for the other, haskell and python aren't my favourite languages
22:24:12 <oerjan> hah that's _so_ out there, i mean i _knew_ it, er...
22:24:26 <AnMaster> ehird, "<AnMaster> ehird, it isn't a joke... <ehird> for one, it wasn't funny..."
22:24:33 <ehird> if it wasn't a joke, what was it
22:24:47 <AnMaster> not everything has to be funny
22:24:52 <ehird> umm, that's not much of an observation
22:25:12 <AnMaster> oklopol, you could debate the truth in it
22:25:18 <ehird> AnMaster: you're valgrindphillic
22:25:21 <ehird> see, you use valgrind sometimes
22:25:25 <ehird> what do you mean it's not funny
22:25:27 <ehird> it was AN OBSERVATION
22:25:28 <oerjan> no, not everything has to be funny. some things need to be cried over for days and days.
22:25:32 <AnMaster> ehird, nah. I'm valgrindophillic
22:25:44 <ehird> no, it makes it sound more like a gay sex practice.
22:25:49 <ehird> if that's your thing...
22:26:04 <ehird> val-grind-o-phillic
22:26:18 <AnMaster> ehird, as long as that is an i and not an a
22:26:32 <oklopol> does "valgrind" come from "wall grinder"
22:26:42 <AnMaster> oklopol, no, from Nordic mythology
22:26:48 <ehird> valgrind comes from "Val, the Grind-o-Master"
22:27:08 <oklopol> is that where AnMaster got his name?
22:27:13 <ehird> no, I'm busy joking.
22:27:16 <AnMaster> oklopol, http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/faq.html#faq.whence
22:27:27 <ehird> he's "Val's Little Brother, a Grind-o-Master"
22:27:31 <oerjan> incidentally it's not that far off from being a plausible norwegian name
22:27:42 <AnMaster> oerjan, http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/faq.html#faq.whence
22:27:58 <AnMaster> also http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/faq.html#faq.pronounce
22:28:11 <AnMaster> but every Norwegian or Swedish person could figure that out
22:28:20 <AnMaster> I guess ehird would need to know it is a short i
22:28:23 <oklopol> heh, for a second there i thought it was the same link a third time for those who weren't highlighted yet :P
22:28:30 <oerjan> darn and i thought it meant value grinder :D
22:28:53 <AnMaster> oklopol, oh do you think that is needed?
22:29:51 <ehird> wow, this lisp compile is taking along time
22:30:07 <ehird> over 32595 lines of compiler output as it compiles tons of dependencies and everything
22:30:15 <oklopol> pretty stupid faq btw, doesn't even say what valgrind *is*
22:30:28 <oklopol> maybe it's not asked frequently for some reason
22:30:46 <oklopol> AnMaster: in fact you should probably link it to oerjan again
22:30:47 <oerjan> ehird: taking along time? have it give it back at _once_!
22:30:57 <oklopol> because "oerjan: darn and i thought it meant value grinder :D" is also in the faq
22:31:11 <ehird> valgrind = valgrind grinder
22:31:17 <ehird> the val is an abbreviation of valgrind
22:31:18 <oerjan> oklopol: er i read that before saying it
22:32:41 <oerjan> btw val = battleground, grind = gate
22:32:45 <oklopol> oerjan: 1) i'm joking 2) your mom 3) that's irrelevant because of your face 4) if you'd read it you wouldn't have said "and", you would've indicated somehow that you were part of the majority who thought that, perhaps with one of ithkuil's fine suffices.
22:32:46 <ehird> "Why I think Bush planned the 2001-09-11 World Trade attacks"
22:33:05 <ehird> oklopol: teach me ithkuil suffices!
22:34:39 <oklopol> it's funny how everyone says the people who believe that conspiracy thing are idiots, but no one actually explains the major holes they point out.
22:34:48 <oklopol> i mean i don't care one way or the other, just objectively speaking.
22:34:53 <oerjan> ehird: btw you're away
22:35:13 <oerjan> but /whois gives an away message
22:35:20 <oklopol> also if that was recent, yeah, maybe the subject could be dropped already
22:35:31 <ais523> ehird: you are away, your bouncer is lying to you
22:35:44 <ehird> ais523: I unawayed, silly.
22:35:48 <oklopol> ehird: i don't know any of them off the top of my head brain.
22:37:13 <oerjan> oklopol: what about the other brain?
22:38:52 <oklopol> you're closer to my fingers, why don't you ask them
22:39:12 <ehird> 38612 lines of output...
22:39:14 <oerjan> hello fingers, is oklopol taking his medications properly?
22:39:58 <oerjan> hm i conclude the fingers must be taking too much of something
22:40:10 <oerjan> maybe the medication is clogging in them
22:41:23 <ehird> ; compilation unit finished ; caught 10 WARNING conditions ; printed 3273 notes
22:42:40 <ais523> ehird: what were you compiling?
22:42:58 <ehird> I just did: CL-USER> (require :weblocks-demo)
22:43:03 <ehird> but i'd just installed weblocks
22:43:09 <ehird> and its 5 bajillion dependencies
22:43:12 <ehird> so it compiled them all
22:43:19 <ehird> took about half an hour
22:44:53 <ehird> alien technology is built for those with patiecne
22:48:28 <oerjan> patiecne is an especially painful form of acne
22:50:07 <ehird> Please add '/Users/ehird/Code/oracle/oracle/' to asdf:*central-registry* before you proceed.
22:50:14 <ehird> I have to do that for every app?
22:53:24 <AnMaster> http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/faq.html#faq.whence http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/faq.html#faq.pronounce
22:54:12 <AnMaster> <oklopol> pretty stupid faq btw, doesn't even say what valgrind *is* <-- err it does that right at the main page...
22:54:52 * oerjan hands AnMaster the swatter
22:55:21 <AnMaster> oklopol, like at http://valgrind.org/
22:55:35 <AnMaster> where most people end up *FIRST*
22:55:59 <AnMaster> oerjan, I still hold references to it!
22:56:20 * AnMaster gets one using a reference and then swats another reference
22:56:30 <oklopol> also it's visually pleasing
22:56:48 * oerjan uses a copying gc to move the swatter, making all external refs broken
22:57:42 <AnMaster> oerjan, I can just use oerjan.ResolveHandle(hSwatter);
22:58:17 <AnMaster> or why is there otherwise an Ex variant?
22:58:26 <oklopol> AnMaster: well i meant the actual game, but sure font too
22:59:04 <ehird> AnMaster: WORDLY KNOWLEDGABLE
22:59:17 <ehird> AnMaster: but you _do_ know the number of hairs on rms's beard.
22:59:29 <oklopol> "lol you can't be serious? well. let's take a game everyone knows then"
22:59:32 <ehird> does AnMaster live in a faraday cage?
22:59:51 <ehird> of course you do: you see one every day.
22:59:53 <ehird> because you live in one.
23:00:05 <oklopol> AnMaster: blackjack is as well-known as chess
23:00:22 <AnMaster> ehird, nah this house is not using a metal frame, it uses logs in the core
23:00:34 <AnMaster> oklopol, I actually heard the name before
23:00:40 <AnMaster> I just had no clue about details
23:00:52 <oklopol> okay 36 vs. 43 well-knownity points
23:01:53 <AnMaster> ehird, did you know most computer cases act as faraday cages? I bet you do.
23:02:20 <ehird> I ran a computer without a case
23:02:33 <AnMaster> ehird, yes and there are completely plastic cases too
23:02:52 <ehird> I imagine this iMac is just plastic.
23:03:07 <AnMaster> ehird, I know my PC case is mostly steel
23:03:17 <ehird> Mac Pros are metal through and through
23:03:22 <AnMaster> and I seen lots of PC cases that were plastic with a steel box inside
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