00:01:53 <ehird> Cutesy names for things you dislike is a sure sign of madness, one that I occasionally slip into.
00:02:20 <madbrain> actually i don't actively dislike windows
00:02:24 <oklopol> WELL HIS NAME IS MADBRAIN ISN'T THAT SORT OF A HINT HUH
00:02:27 <ehird> Then why call it Windose :P
00:02:33 <ehird> oklopol: GOOD POINT SIR
00:02:45 <ehird> haha my capslock key is mangled so i have to hit it really hard to get it to register
00:03:09 <ehird> Ciuld? Interesting word.
00:03:22 <ais523> ehird: have you found a nonbroken keyboard yet?
00:03:31 <oklopol> anyway it's like a dose of win, how's that insulting
00:03:44 <ehird> ais523: this keyboard isn't broken, I just keep fiddling with it, annoying that the keycaps are hard to replace
00:03:45 <madbrain> i don't see what's so bad about windows anyways
00:04:01 <ehird> ais523: I'm going to buy a really-good-quality keyboard sometime, and those have easy-to-replace keycaps
00:04:03 <ehird> also, harder to take off
00:04:13 <ehird> so that'll solve two things in one go
00:04:17 <oklopol> now what the fuck is that about this is the 21st century
00:04:30 <ehird> madbrain: UI-wise, Windows 7 is pretty great. but programming, and internally?
00:04:40 <ehird> also, cleartype really needs a redesign.
00:05:30 <ehird> so, whitehouse.gov now runs on Drupal
00:05:46 <ehird> probably a step down from whatever they were usinng
00:05:51 <ehird> (ASP.NET, I think)
00:05:57 <madbrain> well, yeah, i don't know much about win api but from what I gather it's probably a mess and the pumping out of new versions doesn't help either
00:06:14 <ehird> windows is pretty much hell for the programmer
00:06:19 <ehird> and its internals are scary. very scary
00:06:54 <ehird> Incidentally, I type very well on a scissor-switch board, although with lots and lots of errors.
00:06:59 <ehird> (Although I made no errors in that line.)
00:07:14 <ehird> I guess because of the low key travel and high activation force.
00:07:57 <ehird> So I basically slam each key and it hits rock bottom almost immediately.
00:16:07 <Sgeo> (define (eval exp env) (cond ((self-evaluating? exp) exp) ((variable? exp) (lookup-variable-value exp env)) ((quoted? exp) (text-of-quotation exp)) ((assignment? exp) (eval-assignment exp env)) ((definition? exp) (eval-definition exp env)) ((if? exp) (eval-if exp env)) ((lambda? exp) (make-procedure (lambda-parameters exp) (lambda-body exp) env)) ((begin? exp) (eval-sequence (begin-actions exp) env)) ((cond? exp) (eval (cond->i
00:16:07 <Sgeo> f exp) env)) ((application? exp) (apply (eval (operator exp) env) (list-of-values (operands exp) env))) (else (error "Common Lisp or Netscape Navigator 4.0+ Required" exp))))
00:16:28 <oklopol> that looks like copy paste from sicp
00:16:34 <ehird> It requires netscape navigator 4, Sgeo.
00:16:37 <ehird> it's totally different
00:16:42 <Sgeo> It's copy-paste from xkcd
00:16:50 <ehird> Sgeo: Netscape Navigator 4 used to let you code in a subset of scheme
00:16:57 <ehird> as a scripting language for pages
00:17:09 <ehird> it wasn't widely used, though.
00:18:07 <Azstal> It wouldn't surprise me, Brendan Eich said that was what he wanted
00:18:13 -!- Azstal has changed nick to Asztal.
00:18:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:18:58 <ehird> By the way, geocities is in the process of shutting down.
00:19:01 <ehird> Sites are disappearing, so...
00:19:05 <ehird> Maybe they really are erasing it.
00:20:24 <Sgeo> I guess it's too late to go into Active Worlds and download the content that some ancient builds relied on
00:22:43 <ehird> <ehird> Gee, Sgeo, what do you want to do tonight?
00:22:44 <ehird> <Sgeo> The same thing we do every night, ehird — get nostalgic over old internet-based 3D virtual reality games!
00:23:27 <oklopol> hey that doesn't look like an authentic conversation
00:23:44 <ehird> I'M A DIRTY LIAR also a dirty referencer
00:23:51 <Sgeo> oklopol, it does accurately represent how I feel about old internet-based 3D virtual reality games
00:24:11 <ehird> Sgeo feels like a genetically-engineered mouse with an unusually large head.
00:24:15 <oklopol> Sgeo: so plausible lies are okay lies?
00:24:24 <ehird> oklopol: moral crusader
00:24:44 <oklopol> WELL EXCUSE ME FOR NOT ENJOYING YOUR SICK GAMES OF DISVIRTUE
00:25:02 <ehird> disvirtue should so be a word
00:25:12 <oerjan> oklopol: Ancient Greeks like Socrates certainly thought so.
00:25:55 <ehird> GREEKS: DISHONEST CROOKS
00:26:16 <fizzie> Like I said (and sorry for not participating the whole Navigator 4 Scheme dialect fiction), it's the eval function of the SICP metacircular evaluator; as itself, without all the other functions it refers to -- particularly apply -- it doesn't really do much.
00:26:50 <ehird> CAN YOU SPOT HOW IT WAS MODIFIED?
00:26:53 <ehird> (Hint: At the end.)
00:27:04 <ehird> <Sgeo> What's metacircular?
00:27:11 <ehird> <oerjan> i never met a circular i didn't like
00:27:47 <oerjan> s/ular.*/ *hit by falling anvil*/
00:28:06 <ehird> I never meta circ hit by a falling anvil that I didn't like?
00:28:15 <fizzie> Changing a string literal is not much of a modification.
00:28:15 <ehird> You're so compassionate to circs that are the victim of anvil-related attacks.
00:28:40 <ehird> I never metacirc *hit by falling anvil*
00:28:57 <ehird> That, I say, that's a joke, son.
00:28:57 <oklopol> you are joking inaccurately
00:29:26 <fizzie> And an inaccurate joke is worse than none at all! Or was that a diagnosis?
00:29:57 <ehird> Inaccurate diabeetus.
00:30:36 <Sgeo> I know someone who tends to ruin his jokes by saying how they were inaccurate :/
00:31:22 <ehird> Gander, gander, gander, gander, gander, gander, gander, gander, gander, gander, gander
00:31:49 <ehird> wither do you GANDER INCORPORATED
00:32:11 <ehird> my light's flickering
00:32:13 <ehird> hang in there light
00:33:15 * Sgeo needs to discuss an ad for class
00:34:07 * Sgeo was thinking perhaps an ad in a VR game
00:36:27 * Sgeo gets angry at AWLD or whoever owns AW
00:36:38 <Sgeo> There is a site that used to be the center of the largest world in AW
00:36:53 <Sgeo> The entry place to this world has been relocated, and the old site deemed historic
00:37:23 <Sgeo> Guess what I see? NEW STUFF, FROM AFTER THE RELOCATION!
00:37:35 <Sgeo> (Well, I think it's from after0
00:38:29 * Sgeo walks on a road from 1995
00:41:28 -!- coppro has joined.
00:45:33 <Sgeo> This map will no longer work, in this build that is important to me
00:45:42 <Sgeo> But I saved the map to disk, it's not gone forever
00:48:37 <Sgeo> When Geocities dies, the map in http://imgur.com/Bbh1Q.png will turn to static
00:50:52 <Sgeo> A lot of other stuff will turn to static
00:51:01 <Sgeo> But not much that I've personally been involved with, so
00:52:44 * Sgeo may have been the only one in RSTV (which no one but myself cares about) to use Geocities
00:55:58 <Sgeo> Much older than Second Life, and different in a lot of ways
00:57:31 <Sgeo> Old AW TV station
00:57:34 <Sgeo> That I was part of
00:57:37 <Sgeo> Never really took off
00:57:49 <Sgeo> (At least, we did have a functioning station, but no one watched it)
00:59:34 -!- Oranjer has joined.
00:59:47 <Sgeo> AW TV consisted of a script that would, every 10 seconds, show a different image
00:59:48 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp* youtube
01:00:01 <Sgeo> It was possible to make an object that would refresh a page every 10 seconds
01:00:17 <Oranjer> I have a firefox plugin that does that
01:00:40 <Sgeo> I don't know if there are any still existant AW TV stations out there
01:00:54 <Sgeo> VWTV, which was fairly big, and provided RSTV's hosting, died
01:01:02 <Sgeo> Active Worlds: http://activeworlds.com
01:02:29 <Sgeo> What AW did for pictures, instead of having them uploaded to AW's servers, people would just make an object that pointed to a URL
01:02:39 <Sgeo> A lot of stuff was stored on Geocities...
01:02:52 <Oranjer> well, now there are alternatives
01:03:06 <Sgeo> Oranjer, but some of these builds are old
01:03:18 <Sgeo> The original makers are no longer active in AW, and no one else can change them
01:03:22 <Sgeo> http://imgur.com/Bbh1Q.png
01:03:43 <Sgeo> That map is stored on Geocities, but I'm no longer an AW citizen, and can't change it to point to a new URL (not that anyone besides me would ever visit(
01:04:13 <Sgeo> Do you want to visit?
01:04:38 <Sgeo> And RSTV in particular, perhaps
01:09:13 <Sgeo> Meet me in AWGate
01:09:39 <Sgeo> (It's the place you go when you log in)
01:10:55 <Sgeo> Say somnething when you're there. If you stay silent, no one will know who you are
01:11:00 <Sgeo> No name appears above your head
01:13:26 <Oranjer> so uh I downloaded and installed it
01:13:41 <Sgeo> Log in as a tourist
01:13:48 <Sgeo> You can make up an email, they don't check
01:14:00 <Oranjer> now I am automatically upgrading my version
01:14:10 <Oranjer> I'm not at the logging in yet
01:14:24 <Sgeo> Tell me when you're in, I'm going to play a bit of Paintball
01:17:32 <Sgeo> Oranjer, arrow keys
01:17:36 <Sgeo> Click the 3d screen first
01:27:00 <Sgeo> Oranjer, you still on?
01:29:03 * pikhq found a vaguely make-esque program that was at least patched to not suck with string handling
01:29:29 <pikhq> Pity it doesn't support parallelism or anything, but it doesn't act dumb. Hooray!
01:29:46 <ehird> You know that your conversion task could be handled by about 10 lines of Python.
01:29:57 <pikhq> "svmk.tcl", a simple Tcl script.
01:31:26 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/1644512
01:35:12 <Sgeo> Wait, out as in left AW, or out as in out of the water, Oranjer?
01:47:02 <Sgeo> "Oranjer":Eric, what year do you think it is?
01:47:02 <Sgeo> Eric John:2004
01:47:37 <ehird> what did Eric say to prompt thatt?
01:48:07 <Oranjer> he was remarking on the year of the building we are in, I think
01:48:24 <ehird> you crazy windows users, you
01:48:26 <ehird> having all the fun
01:49:02 <Oranjer> Sgeo showed me this virtual thing, but I must say, the controls are fairly counterintuitive
01:49:24 <Sgeo> Oranjer, AW dates from 1995, I think
01:50:02 <ehird> it's as old as me :(
02:16:24 <Sgeo> Oranjer, where are you?
02:17:56 <Oranjer> I went through a door and BAM
02:18:22 <Sgeo> Oranjer, click the back button
02:18:46 <Sgeo> That was supposed to be a thingy that let you go to different parts of the "hotel" that the whole thing was a part of
02:18:50 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:19:02 <Sgeo> It used absolute coords, so when it was relocated to a safe place, it broke
02:19:20 <Sgeo> You went back in?
02:26:30 <Sgeo> Oranjer, were you teleported again?
02:26:37 <Sgeo> Come to 3410S 24205E
02:28:21 -!- augur_ has joined.
02:32:24 <augur_> hows it going my oft wrong friend?
02:34:18 * Sgeo dragged Oranjer into his nostalgia
02:35:07 <Oranjer> I remember playing The Universal
02:35:19 <Sgeo> Oranjer, I tried that once
02:35:35 <Sgeo> Just one planet of it, though
02:35:40 <Sgeo> Is it still alive?
02:35:56 <Oranjer> I was only on for about a year, three years ago
02:36:07 <Oranjer> it wasn't the game's fault
02:36:14 <Oranjer> I had been trying to make my own planet
02:36:15 <Sgeo> I remember almost everything I've been on since 2001
02:36:36 <Oranjer> I lost practically all of my stuff I had ever worked on ever :(
02:37:00 * Sgeo has had 3 Crashes of that sort
02:37:10 <Sgeo> One, in and before the summer of 2001
02:37:18 <Sgeo> One, at an unknown time
02:37:26 <Sgeo> And one, no later than August 2003
02:37:45 <Sgeo> I remember almost NOTHING of my online travels before Crash
02:38:03 <Sgeo> I may actually have data from before Crash 2 or Crash 3 on some HD somewhere
02:38:15 <Sgeo> I need to investigate
02:38:19 <Oranjer> I remember I was into Game Maker
02:38:30 <Sgeo> I liked User Friendly and Cybertown
02:38:45 <Oranjer> I do not know what that means
02:38:52 <Sgeo> UserFriendly == webcomic
02:38:57 <Sgeo> Cybertown == 3d city thing
02:39:14 <Sgeo> I stayed in Cybertown until, 2004 I think. One year after it went subscription
02:39:18 <Oranjer> well, Sgeo, do you remember what planet you were on in The Universal?
02:39:24 <Sgeo> Oranjer, one that involved flying
02:39:39 <Sgeo> That's about all I remember
02:39:44 <Oranjer> my god I cannot believe I remember that
02:40:03 <Oranjer> although, I always did love the planet "The Republic"
02:40:09 <Oranjer> you started out as a caveman
02:40:23 <Oranjer> and you had to basically recreate civilization
02:40:24 <Sgeo> There's one 3d place that I can't even remember a name to
02:40:35 <Sgeo> And I saw maybe 0 other people there when I was on
02:40:39 <Sgeo> But I still want to find it again
02:40:41 <Oranjer> you went from a caveman, knight, robber baron, guy on hoverboard
02:40:48 <Oranjer> then it started over again
02:40:55 <Oranjer> oh, Sgeo? can you describe it?
02:41:06 <Sgeo> Um, it had a program to easily create your own nightclub
02:41:14 <Sgeo> And in the main area, there was a grafitti wall
02:41:22 <Oranjer> mind you, the important part of The Republic was that you could not do it alone
02:44:28 <Sgeo> There's another place that I remember the name to, but haven't revisited in ever. I really should, it's the reason I went to AW
02:44:44 <Sgeo> I was looking for information on the book Flatland, and it just so happens there's a 3d thingy by that name
02:44:54 <Sgeo> Somehow, don't remember how, I get from there to Active Worlds
02:44:57 <Sgeo> Oranjer, agreed
02:45:58 <Sgeo> "And so begins the Flatland Blog, albeit a little late as this saga began in 1996, the first year I could have gone to Burning Man and didnt. Instead I had just left a video game company and was struggling with VRML. If I, a veteran programmer of 10 years, couldnt make heads or tails of this format, how would creators in general deal with 3D on the Web?"
02:46:26 <Oranjer> I was also confuddled by the inefficient nature of VRML
02:46:40 <oerjan> a 3d thingy by the name Flatland, how logical
02:47:16 <Sgeo> I.. might not have actually touched Flatland myself
02:47:42 <Sgeo> None of these screenshots are triggering recognition
02:47:47 <Sgeo> Where did I see that puzzle?
02:47:59 <Sgeo> There was some egyptian puzzle like thingy
02:48:18 <Sgeo> I can't remember the platform. Adobe Atmosphere? That unknown nightclub thingy? Flatland?
02:48:27 <coppro> Flatland is an awesome book
02:48:54 <coppro> it deserves repetition
02:48:55 <Sgeo> tbh, I remember Flatterland a bit better
02:49:11 <oerjan> i don't know, i think it's lacking in depth
02:50:14 <Oranjer> I usually just use Flatland as a warning
02:50:24 <Oranjer> you know, against closed-mindedness
02:50:49 <Oranjer> as in, if someone comes up to me, and says they've found a Nazi mummy that's come alive
02:50:54 <Oranjer> I'll sure as hell investigate
02:51:12 <Oranjer> I may not believe them, but I'll at least see it with my own eyes
02:51:13 <oerjan> not run away like hell?
02:51:42 <Oranjer> well, I will bring along some sorta weapon, of course
02:51:49 <coppro> yeah, whenever I hear something I don't believe, I always qualify my objections. Flatland helped me with that
02:52:22 <Oranjer> I just try to avoid assuming
02:52:38 <Oranjer> actually, Flatland helped me become a true fallibilist
02:52:46 <Sgeo> BTW, that waterpark thing that Oranjer fell into was from 1995
02:53:15 * oerjan foresees many interesting discussions between Oranjer and ehird
02:53:46 <oerjan> he's rather the skeptic :D
02:54:08 <Oranjer> well, what do you think I am?
02:54:24 <Oranjer> I am even skeptical of my own methods of reasoning
02:55:38 <Oranjer> although, someone on here, I forgot who, disagrees with me on epistemological anarchism
02:56:18 <Oranjer> also, E-prime! remember, "It's bullshit"? or "I think it's bullshit"?
02:56:31 <madbrain> oh god epistemological anarchism
02:56:37 <ehird> funny, E-prime is ALSO bullshit
02:56:48 <ehird> madbrain: "SCIENCE HAS A MONOPOLY ON REASON AND THIS IS WRONG"
02:57:03 <Oranjer> sorry, ehird, but I believe you misunderstand
02:57:06 <ehird> basically "Science is just as right or wrong as any other method of coming to conclusions, hurf durf, science-only people are dumb"
02:57:15 <ehird> Then Wikipedia does too.
02:57:24 <madbrain> well, science worked hard to get where it is now
02:57:33 <ehird> "Epistemological anarchism is an epistemological theory advanced by Austrian philosopher of science Paul Feyerabend which holds that there are no useful and exception-free methodological rules governing the progress of science or the growth of knowledge. It holds that the idea that science can or should operate according to universal and fixed rules is unrealistic, pernicious and detrimental to science itself."
02:57:48 <Oranjer> well, the first part is true, but the "science0only people are dumb"? poppycock
02:57:51 <ehird> "The use of the term anarchism in the name reflected the methodological pluralism prescription of the theory; as the purported scientific method does not have a monopoly on truth or useful results, the pragmatic approach is a Dadaistic "anything goes" attitude toward methodologies.[1] The theory advocates treating science as an ideology alongside others such as religion, magic and mythology, and considers the dominance of science in society authoritarian a
02:57:52 <ehird> unjustified.[1] Promulgation of the theory earned Feyerabend the title of “the worst enemy of science” from his detractors.[2]"
02:57:56 <ehird> "The theory advocates treating science as an ideology alongside others such as religion, magic and mythology, and considers the dominance of science in society authoritarian and unjustified."
02:58:27 <Oranjer> ehird, what exactly does saying something equals bullshit...do?
02:58:36 <ehird> it means it's bullshit
02:58:37 <madbrain> yeah that's like, either postmodernism of fundies... probably postmodernism
02:59:21 <madbrain> ok well, from an epistemological point of view, ideas that stem from, well, the actual state of the world should be promoted
02:59:42 <Sgeo> Well, which viewpoint has given us the longest lifespans?
02:59:44 <ehird> Oranjer also believes in some other theory
02:59:52 <ehird> "every imaginable reality is just as real as ours"
03:00:02 <ehird> SO ACTUALLY EVERY PHILOSOPHY IS EQUALLY AS RIGHT AS EVERYTHING
03:00:04 <ehird> IF YOU'RE A RETARD
03:00:08 <ehird> WHO WILL BELIEVE ANY OLD SHIT
03:00:12 * coppro wishes he lived near Austria... murder is so much easier to commit in person
03:00:19 <madbrain> that's basically denying the phisical world
03:00:24 <ehird> coppro: who, exactly, do you want to kill?
03:00:25 <Sgeo> Whether it's "real" or not is irrelevant to whether we really care
03:00:33 <coppro> ehird: that Paul Feyeradsajfl guy
03:00:36 <Sgeo> So what if some parallel universe has different laws from us?
03:00:37 <ehird> he's dead, coppro.
03:00:51 <ehird> YOU CAN IMAGINE A WORLD WHERE HE IS ALIVE
03:00:52 <coppro> anyone here teach necromancy?
03:00:57 <coppro> according to his theory it's as valid as science
03:00:57 <ehird> AND BEING KILLED BY COPPRO RIGHT NOW
03:01:04 <ehird> you are in fact doing it
03:01:16 <coppro> so I'll just bring him back to life and kill him
03:01:28 <ehird> You are already doing it!
03:01:28 <Sgeo> What's the difference between that any the many-worlds interpretation of quantum physics?
03:01:38 <madbrain> who cares about the other world
03:01:43 <ehird> in that the many worlds doesn't literally refer to "many worlds"
03:01:47 <coppro> Sgeo: the many-worlds interpretation of quantum physics is a) dumb b) misinterpreted
03:01:49 <ehird> and is actually a scientific theory
03:01:53 <ehird> coppro: (a) no, it's not (b) agreed
03:01:58 -!- Oranjer has left (?).
03:02:13 <ehird> it's far simpler than the copenhagen interpretation, which is hand-waving to boot
03:02:35 <Sgeo> I'm not sure how it can be a theory if it's untestable
03:02:58 <ehird> So is the Copenhagen interpretation.
03:03:05 <ehird> But theoretically, you could communicate across Everett branches. Maybe.
03:03:14 <ehird> Point is, we need a model and MWI is the simplest.
03:03:15 <coppro> ehird: I forget the interpretation I prefer
03:03:19 <ehird> And doesn't hand-wave, which Copenhagen does.
03:03:29 <ehird> coppro: I have only seen MWI and Copenhagen being touted.
03:03:36 <ehird> Oh, and that crazy quantum darwinism thing that only nescience believes.
03:03:39 <ehird> But that's basically adjusted MWI.
03:03:40 <coppro> wikipedia lists like 20
03:03:48 <Sgeo> I dislike MWI, but only because of the implications I can imagine when I fantasize about time travel
03:04:04 <ehird> MWI is what you need for non-paradoxical time-travel.
03:04:20 <coppro> I agree with the idea that the Copenhagen Interpretation is ridiculous and stupid (see Schrodinger)
03:04:38 <ehird> coppro: anyway, Hugh Everett was kooky, but it was fleshed out intoo something with real value
03:04:44 <ehird> as unbelievable as that sounds
03:04:51 <Sgeo> Why not something like the Novikov self-consistency principle?
03:04:54 <ehird> (also, MWI != quantum immortality, which is bullshit)
03:05:21 <Sgeo> if quantum immortality then MWI, but not (if MWI, then quantum immortality)
03:05:23 <ehird> Sgeo: because the implications are ridiculous and would make time travel impossible
03:05:36 <coppro> the interpretation I favor is whichever one says that it's a sort of past-of-least-resistance thing. It's a variant of MWI.
03:05:39 <ehird> due to chaos theory, you can't do ANYTHING without creating a time paradox
03:05:44 <ehird> or at least, most anything
03:05:48 <ehird> coppro: heh, that's quantum darwinism, I believe.
03:06:08 <Sgeo> ehird, but whatever effect you have is what had already happened, because of you
03:06:19 <ehird> sgeo, you're boring and time travel isn't possible.
03:06:20 <coppro> ehird: but that's not listed on Wikipedia!
03:06:33 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Darwinism
03:06:37 <coppro> not on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics
03:06:44 <coppro> therefore it doesn't exist, etc.
03:06:55 <madbrain> build a quantum bomb, that destroys the removes the current branch of possibilities... the button will never get pressed
03:07:06 <ehird> madbrain: sitcom opportunity!
03:07:14 <coppro> no, the one I like isn't quantum darwinism
03:07:20 <ehird> "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Activate The Bo— Ow! You hit me!"
03:07:34 <Sgeo> madbrain, or the bomb malfunctions, or the presser's finger vaporizes
03:07:51 <ehird> Sgeo: I dismiss that theory easily: its complexity is unbelievably high
03:08:05 <Sgeo> I'd think that bomb malfunction isn't that complex
03:08:08 <ehird> The sheer "infrastructure" that would be needed in physics to prevent the events is ridiculous.
03:08:11 <Sgeo> finger vaporization, yes
03:08:42 <madbrain> for a tv show it's a button that displays a naked woman. since the show is rated "ok for everybody", the button cannot get pressed, since if it did they'd have to rewrite the scenario
03:09:00 <ehird> displays a naked woman then causes a time paradox
03:09:02 <ehird> priorities, you know
03:09:06 <ehird> gotta go out with a bang
03:09:53 <Sgeo> madbrain, isn't that like discovering a technology that gets the USS Voyager home instantly?
03:10:05 <Sgeo> If it's discovered, the show's over
03:10:19 <ehird> IT CAN'T HAPPEN SGEO
03:10:27 <ehird> your pet time travel enabler states so
03:10:41 <Sgeo> So I can't switch into a discussion of TV shows?
03:15:23 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur.
03:15:45 <oerjan> Sgeo: the universe conspires against you doing so
03:16:21 <coppro> Sgeo: incidentally, it did happen, and the show ended
03:16:45 <Sgeo> Well, except for the finale
03:17:03 * Sgeo didn't actually watch that, but read about it :/
03:21:40 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:26:15 <coppro> ehird: Voyager gets home. duh
03:26:26 <ehird> [02:16] coppro: Sgeo: incidentally, it did happen, and the show ended
03:26:27 <ehird> [02:16] Sgeo: Well, except for the finale
03:26:30 <ehird> or did those messages clash
03:26:33 <ehird> i.e., not chronologically
03:27:17 <Sgeo> Um, that was chronological. By "except", I was referring to my earlier statement
03:27:20 <coppro> now, to provide contrast, I predict that a way will be found to provide regular two-way travel between Destiny and Earth by... mid-fourth season
03:27:24 <coppro> (if it gets that far, of course)
03:27:42 <ehird> I DO NOT WATCH THESE SCI-FI SHOES PEOPLE
03:28:02 <ehird> Stargate has a whole series devoted to a typeface?
03:28:02 * Sgeo barely watched any SG-1 or Stargate Atlantis
03:28:05 <ehird> Wow, some tenuous plot
03:28:26 <Sgeo> I think it would be bad for me to start on a new one, I barely know stuff from the old ones
03:29:02 <coppro> SGU's pretty free-floating
03:29:14 <coppro> though you'll want to catch up from the start rather than jump in
03:29:54 <Sgeo> I'll have to look into it
03:52:36 <madbrain> I feel like there's nothing left interesting on the internet
04:05:49 <Ilari> Ugh... I hate giving times with international signaficance as just "EDT"...
04:06:08 <Ilari> At least also give UTC times...
04:06:44 <coppro> Ilari: what makes it doubly bad is that 4/5ths of the world use "EST" when they mean "EDT"
04:06:51 <coppro> I have been burned by this before
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05:50:23 <pikhq> Sgeo: They've gotten tech to get the Voyager home several times.
05:50:37 <pikhq> And didn't use it for no good reason. Several times.
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12:24:45 <ais523> <municifent> The "for" keyword is used for looping. Most of the time. Sometimes it prints a random string to the screen.
12:24:56 <AnMaster> ais523, what language is that?
12:25:13 <ais523> it isn't, it was a hypothetical one
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15:13:10 <oerjan> AnMaster: the question is, is Adam really sure they didn't find anything. it's mind control after all.
15:13:49 <AnMaster> oerjan, see clog for my comments on the comic some hours ago
15:14:09 <oerjan> i did, otherwise i wouldn't have spoiled so blatantly
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20:36:13 * AnMaster wonders how sane it is to burn an iso file when the iso file is on an nfs mount
20:36:20 <AnMaster> over 100 mbit ethernet lan, but still
20:37:38 <AnMaster> also, very strange that only one of two computers, both having dvd burners claiming to support DVD+R DL, can actually see the disc
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20:37:56 <AnMaster> which is why I'm considering iso mounted over nfs
20:38:02 <AnMaster> since other computer lacks disk space for it
20:45:16 <oklopol> http://users.utu.fi/yurnik/RO.pub.htm <<< that belarusian lecturer i once told about's course website
20:45:46 <oklopol> not sure it's as horrible with normal colors as it is with my ehird theme, but anyway
20:45:58 <oklopol> there's the dancing rainbow anyway.
20:47:41 <lament> smart people are stupid
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20:50:25 <oklopol> beats being stupid though, stupid people aren't smart
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21:31:57 <oerjan> that's good, then you can see us
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21:39:55 <oerjan> ion can be both a positive and a negative thing
21:39:59 <fizzie> Maybe he just likes to hang around ion users.
21:40:22 <fizzie> (I think they call themselves "ionizers".)
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22:06:53 <fizzie> If you're doing manual xorg.confery, you can do the "old-style" multihead simply by duplicating the "Device" section, putting Screen 0 in one and Screen 1 in the other, then two "Screen" sections, and both screens in the "ServerLayout" section the way you want them. (But I'm sure modern systems have more user-friendly ways of doing it.)
22:09:30 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, why are you using ION?
22:10:06 <AnMaster> fizzie, for me it works by just doing /usr/bin/nvidia-settings and enabling twin-view
22:10:15 <AnMaster> not often I have two screens around though
22:10:19 <fizzie> AnMaster: He just said he doesn't want twinview.
22:10:45 <AnMaster> where? I restarted client and reconnected to bouncer just before he joined last time
22:10:55 <AnMaster> and no scrollback since I was connected before that
22:11:24 <fizzie> Immediately after joining; just look at the dozen last lines of today's log.
22:12:05 <fizzie> My nvidia dualhead setup looks like http://zem.fi/~fis/x.txt -- though with Ion, I guess you don't want Xinerama on. And those are numbered "0" and "2" because there's the third monitor too.
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22:12:48 <AnMaster> fizzie, I'm not going to open firefox atm, due to burning a dvd.
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22:13:53 <fizzie> Isn't it against Ion's philosophy to do multihead, though? I mean, the reason given for not supporting Xinerama is "I'm not going to waste my time rubbing your unecological penis enlargement"; admittedly it supports plain X multihead, but I don't see how that would make it any more ecological.
22:17:28 <fizzie> Since I'm not sure whether you saw it or not; here's one nvidia-card dualhead-without-twinview xorg.conf: http://zem.fi/~fis/x.txt
22:18:03 <fizzie> Might not be helpful at all.
22:20:22 <AnMaster> fizzie, what does xinerama do btw?
22:20:52 <AnMaster> is it the thing that prevents menus from opening split across the edge of two screens?
22:22:32 <fizzie> AnMaster: No; well, yes, in the sense that it provides the screen layout information. But without Xinerama (or twinview or such) the two screens are completely separate, meaning you need different DISPLAY strings to access them and all. Xinerama sort-of merges them to one logical screen, so that you can have screen-spanning windows, or move windows between screens.
22:23:07 <AnMaster> fizzie, err, but where does twinview fit into it
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22:23:59 <AnMaster> because I know my system was compiled without xinerama support, could move stuff between the screens. But with xinerama on firefox suddenly didn't open the menu in strange places and such
22:24:25 <fizzie> Twinview's just a nvidia-specific hack to make two physical monitors appear as a single "physical" X screen; that's what gives you the split menus and other ugly things like that. It has a "fake-Xinerama" thing which makes it provide the Xinerama information so that window managers know the physical screen boundaries.
22:25:37 <fizzie> Well, what does your /var/log/Xorg.log say?
22:25:41 <AnMaster> fizzie, sometimes it is useful to have a single window split across the monitors though
22:26:32 <fizzie> (Xorg.0.log more likely.)
22:27:27 <fizzie> bsmntbombdood: You probably need to add "Screen 0" to one of the devices, and "Screen 1" to the other. (Well, that's my guess.)
22:27:47 <fizzie> AnMaster: I guess, though I don't really remember ever wanting that.
22:28:50 <fizzie> (What I do use is separate browser windows on both screens, which is not possible with X multihead without using two browser instances.)
22:29:08 <AnMaster> [growisofs] :-[ CLOSE DISC failed with SK=5h/SESSION FIXATION ERROR - INCOMPLETE TRACK IN SESSION]: Input/output error
22:30:03 <fizzie> Kicker's the KDE panel thing? I prefer separate panels on each screen, not some strange on-two-screens thing.
22:32:02 <fax> fungot, ^style alice
22:32:04 <fungot> fax: added a notation on the fuel tank issue the panther vehicles had. i apologize in advance if it seems important then, someone could add it to the page :)
22:39:51 <bsmntbombdood_> i can't move focus from screen to screen with the keyboard
22:45:37 <oerjan> fax: exactly what do you think "fungot, ^style alice" is supposed to do?
22:45:38 <fungot> oerjan: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ console/ xbox360/ image/ large/ fnord hammer
22:45:55 <fizzie> oerjan: Beware, the fnord hammer.
22:46:23 <oerjan> hammer _and_ anvil. i'm doomed!
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23:00:17 <fizzie> That's a bit strange; at least xlock should lock all screens of a server, even without any extra looks-like-one-logical-screen trickery. (Some other methods of locking might not.)
23:00:51 <fizzie> Firefox will if you use two profiles, but that's just annoying.
23:01:06 <fizzie> Maybe you should use a third-party-Xinerama-patched version of Ion.
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23:46:25 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood_, twinview would Just Work :P
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23:49:24 <fizzie> Indeed; since Ion doesn't do Xinerama, it can't know anything about how the screens are split when using TwinView.
23:50:18 <fizzie> There are existing patches, though.
23:51:40 <AnMaster> someone should. It would annoy the hell out of the author
23:51:46 <fizzie> I have a feeling the Xinerama patches pretty much are a de-facto Ion fork. Haven't really looked at the situation.
23:53:04 <fizzie> All this X nonsense is inspiring; I think I'll check if my triple-head setup has magically fixed itself. (Some quasi-recent X upgrade broke it so that it crashes on startup unless I remove the third head.)
23:54:01 <fizzie> "It will not support the pile of crap known as Xrandr 1.2 “Xinerama 2.0” (of the “choose the worst solution possible” design typical of major FOSS projects)"
23:55:07 <fizzie> All kinds of stuff; on-the-fly resolution / rotation changes, mostly, but also multihead-related activities.
23:55:25 <fizzie> I just think pre-1.2 it didn't do anything multihead-related at all.
23:56:06 <fizzie> (And anyway nvidia's binary driver isn't very XRandR-friendly; it supports some basics of it, but not as well as the open-source radeon driver, whose "twinview"-lookalike is configured via XRandR, unless I remember wrongly.)
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23:57:43 <fizzie> Haha; "Finally, here are some current window managers and tools that have an approach similar to (copied from) Ion --"; right, anything that's like Ion is copying from it.
23:57:43 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood_, switch WM seriously.
23:58:21 <AnMaster> fizzie, ion wasn't the first tiling one was it?
23:58:30 <fizzie> I'm pretty sure it wasn't.
23:58:43 <fizzie> Not interested enough to start digging up dates, though.