←2010-01-21 2010-01-22 2010-01-23→ ↑2010 ↑all
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01:21:27 <Gregor> Todo this weekend: Write a JavaScript interpreter
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01:27:42 <Gregor> Hey, I've got a mouse with a wheel again :P
01:52:35 * Asztal envy
01:52:49 <Asztal> this mouse has a wheel but it does whatever it likes when I scroll it, so I don't scroll it.
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02:16:22 <oerjan> <Gregor> Hey, I've got a mouse with a wheel again :P
02:16:30 <oerjan> your cat ate its foot?
02:16:54 * Gregor has smoke coming out of his ears
02:17:12 <oerjan> STOP THINKING SO HARD
02:18:22 <Gregor> I aaaalmost got it, because if my cat ate her foot she would form a wheel, and cats eat mice, but I can't rectify "mouse with a"
02:19:12 <oerjan> your cat ate _the mouse's_ foot?
02:19:16 <oerjan> **
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02:20:02 <oerjan> + some prosthetics, obviously
02:20:38 <Gregor> Yeah, that I got
02:21:30 <oerjan> good, good
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03:38:08 <Sgeo> http://robozzle.com/
03:38:49 <Sgeo> (Warning: Silverlight)
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03:44:37 <coppro> Sgeo: neat
03:44:50 <Sgeo> :)
03:44:57 * Sgeo found it because of TV Tropes Wiki
03:45:35 <coppro> lies
03:45:40 <coppro> nothing good ever comes of tvtropes
03:46:24 <Sgeo> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProgrammingGame
03:49:46 <coppro> nice
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03:51:36 * pikhq discovers the FATAL traditional RPG.
03:51:59 <pikhq> It can be summed as follows: Imagine that /b/ made an RPG. Now imagine that that RPG could defecate. *That* is FATAL.
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04:16:38 <uorygl> Sgeo, did you just link to a really awesome game?
04:17:08 <Sgeo> uorygl, that's a bit subjective, really
04:17:17 <Sgeo> And at least I have something to do for an hour
04:26:18 <uorygl> Hum, I'm having difficulty getting Silverlight.
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05:12:00 <oerjan> xkcd :D
05:35:15 <oklopol> Sgeo: i've seen that with subroutines
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05:36:20 <oklopol> oh lol yeah that has them too
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05:37:52 <oklopol> okay and tons of other stuff
05:37:57 <oklopol> cool.
05:58:09 <Sgeo> :D
05:58:38 <Sgeo> I think the creator of Robozzle might have been inspired by another game. I think he said it somewhere
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06:00:17 <oklopol> yeah there was this trivial game where you put a few arrows down and light like a lamp
06:00:47 <Sgeo> Yeah, I've seen it
06:00:58 <Sgeo> I think that's the one that inspired this one
06:01:55 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmqBVWi_Pc0 [partial puzzle spoilers (how badly can a video spoil, if the code isn't shown?)]
06:04:20 <oklopol> icegibbon (7 months ago) Show Hide +1 Marked as spam Reply Awesome. A game that teaches concepts of Programming, even recursion! Finally
06:04:24 <oklopol> i hate youtube
06:06:36 <oklopol> "recursion" lol
06:06:50 <oklopol> thaat's a fucking goto
06:06:55 <oklopol> *that's
06:08:07 <Sgeo> Actually, it does tend to act more like recursion than a goto
06:08:29 <oklopol> oh right it does
06:08:54 <Sgeo> Suppose in the middle of F1 you put a conditional F1.. there are puzzles that rely on the recursive-like behavior
06:09:08 <oklopol> anyway, i like the idea of having a memory array, and putting a color pattern on it that's that only way to do conditionals
06:09:28 <oklopol> so basically the game with an infinite pattern + like a drop command
06:09:30 <Sgeo> Search for stack in http://robozzle.com/puzzles.aspx
06:09:33 <oklopol> "shit here"
06:09:34 <oklopol> hmm
06:09:41 <oklopol> ah, interesting
06:10:07 <oklopol> have to be at uni in 6 minutes, and have to take the dog out first, so slightly busy atm
06:10:10 <oklopol> but maybe tonight
06:10:22 * Sgeo is going to sleep soon
06:10:24 <oklopol> maybe a few minutes of simpsons first
06:15:24 <Sgeo> http://robozzle.com/forums/thread.aspx?id=1593
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06:31:08 <Sgeo> There is a Javascript client: http://robozzle.com/js
06:32:32 <Sgeo> Night all
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12:25:08 <Sgeo> o.O the Robozzle source is freely available (don't know if it's Open Source or not, though)
12:25:13 <Sgeo> http://robozzle.codeplex.com/
12:26:15 * Sgeo plays with Grooveshark, and facepalms at whoever thinks that Salva Me is an Enya song
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13:02:12 <oklopol> when do these start getting hard?
13:02:33 <oklopol> assuming i agree with the general difficulty ratings
13:03:01 <oklopol> (actually realized there's one after i asked, so probably i could just scroll levels until i find a hard one)
13:10:36 <Sgeo> Besides the campaign tab, there's also an easy to hard tab...
13:11:40 * Sgeo notices that oklopol asked that 7 min ago, so pokes him in case he didn't check IRC
13:18:11 <oklopol> oh lol
13:18:20 <oklopol> yeah but actually these are hard enough already
13:18:33 <oklopol> (although i think this is still an "easy" level)
13:19:04 <oklopol> sofar the only hard ones have been ones where i've needed something i hadn't realized i can do
13:19:20 <oklopol> but in limit your stack, i have no idea what to do yet
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13:21:05 <asiekierka> oh, hi
13:21:18 * Sgeo has only done one puzzle that involved the stack, it was some learn the stack puzzle
13:21:35 <Sgeo> hi asiekierka
13:21:40 <asiekierka> what is the current topic
13:21:46 <asiekierka> so i don't like go all offtop---oh wait... T_T
13:22:03 <asiekierka> as in
13:22:06 <asiekierka> what are you guys talking about
13:22:18 <asiekierka> and madame's
13:22:20 <Sgeo> http://robozzle.com (if you don't have Silverlight, try http://robozzle.com/js )
13:22:30 <Sgeo> Although the latter doesn't have the tutorial, I think
13:22:36 <Sgeo> And is unpretty
13:22:59 <scarf> aargh silverlight
13:23:32 <asiekierka> i want to make a random text generator based on all these markov's and weighting to
13:23:33 <asiekierka> o
13:23:36 <asiekierka> as in
13:23:47 <asiekierka> meh
13:23:49 <asiekierka> too lazy to explain
13:24:07 <asiekierka> o, robozzle?
13:24:10 <asiekierka> i saw a game like it
13:24:11 <asiekierka> 1 year ago
13:24:22 <Sgeo> asiekierka, just a guess, but Light-Bot?
13:24:27 <asiekierka> yes
13:24:28 <asiekierka> exactly
13:24:38 <Sgeo> Robozzle is much more flexible, and is mostly user-created puzzles
13:25:00 <asiekierka> does it have logic gates
13:25:04 <asiekierka> if yes, then i agree
13:25:07 <Sgeo> It has conditionals
13:25:20 <asiekierka> that may work
13:25:31 <asiekierka> someone should pull off a computer in it xD
13:25:40 <asiekierka> or an adder
13:26:39 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmqBVWi_Pc0 (possibly spoils some puzzles)
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13:32:08 <fizzie> Er, what's that filled-circle command? ... oh, it paints a square, or something.
13:32:41 <Sgeo> no "or something", it paints the square
13:33:09 <fizzie> Right.
13:33:20 <fizzie> It's not mentioned at http://www.robozzle.com/wiki/Commands.ashx though.
13:34:05 <Sgeo> Well, it was added later on, iirc
13:34:30 <Sgeo> Add a command that allows the robot to repaint tiles (making RoboZZle Turing-complete)
13:34:30 <Sgeo> Update: this extension is now implemented!
13:34:35 <Sgeo> http://www.robozzle.com/wiki/Proposed%20RoboZZle%20Extensions.ashx
13:35:05 <fizzie> Ah.
13:35:57 <MissPiggy> that's pretty cool
13:41:21 <MissPiggy> wait you can do recursion in this??
13:41:46 <oklopol> okay limit your stack is obvious, i guess i just didn't understand the stack well enough
13:42:14 <MissPiggy> ugh!! the editor for this game is so horrible it makes playing it painful
13:43:47 <Sgeo> MissPiggy, the keyboard shortcuts might help
13:44:14 <Sgeo> Also, are you using the Silverlight version or the JS version?
13:44:18 <MissPiggy> js
13:44:20 <asiekierka> uugh, i have to solve what? 40 puzzles?
13:44:56 <Sgeo> To make your own puzzles, yes
13:45:07 <asiekierka> this is not funny.
13:45:16 <asiekierka> i only solved what, 15?
13:45:27 <Sgeo> Try solving the easiest puzzles?
13:45:37 <oklopol> i've solved 32 puzzles today
13:45:40 <fizzie> What's this about 40? Something relevant to the Silverlight version?
13:45:52 <asiekierka> i am
13:45:53 <Sgeo> fizzie, it's how many you need to solve to edit puzzles
13:45:57 <asiekierka> that's how i got 15
13:45:57 <oklopol> but it seems sgeo has too.......
13:46:07 * oklopol smells failure
13:46:11 <Sgeo> I don't know if there's a JS puzzle editor
13:46:20 <Sgeo> oklopol, hm?
13:46:30 <oklopol> Sgeo: have you solved 32 puzzles today?
13:46:40 <Sgeo> Um, I solved way over that
13:46:54 <Sgeo> The board in the Silverlight thing doesn't seem to update properly
13:47:01 <oklopol> well Sgeo is number one on the list
13:47:05 <oklopol> oh
13:47:07 <Sgeo> Try "Full scoreboard"
13:47:23 <oklopol> i was just wondering if it was my score, but i'd clicked on your link and somehow they mistook me for you
13:47:35 <oklopol> because i've solved exactly 32 now
13:48:03 <Sgeo> You know, one of those puzzles really shouldn't count. Some idiot made a trivial puzzle with 1 slot. I think it's hidden from regular view, but it was in RSS
13:48:33 <oklopol> did you start today?
13:48:33 * Sgeo loves how the top players right now are Eso.. what's the right term for us?
13:48:40 <Sgeo> oklopol, I started within the past 24h
13:49:13 <fizzie> This is a bit monotonical. I guess the scoreboard's also visible only in Silverlight-land?
13:49:42 <Sgeo> The Silverlight board is crappy. http://robozzle.com/scoreboard.aspx is better
13:52:57 <scarf> Sgeo: esolangers
13:53:19 <MissPiggy> erlangers
13:53:30 <asiekierka> i love how there's like 20 puzzles with one solution
13:55:13 <asiekierka> 19 so far
13:56:03 <Sgeo> ?
13:56:31 <asiekierka> puzzles
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13:56:37 <asiekierka> until the grand 40
13:56:43 <asiekierka> i'm heading
13:56:56 <asiekierka> 23, actually, i have
13:57:37 <oklopol> i guess i have to quit for the day
13:57:42 <Sgeo> oklopol?
13:57:45 <Sgeo> Why?
13:57:52 <oklopol> have to spend time with humans :'(
13:58:34 <MissPiggy> :(
13:59:11 <oklopol> okay, refreshed
13:59:17 <oklopol> seems i could easily catch up with you
13:59:46 <oklopol> well, assuming you're slower than me ofc
13:59:56 <oklopol> 24h is just an upper limit prolly
14:00:57 <asiekierka> 25, time for a break
14:01:03 <MissPiggy> okay I admit it this game is fun
14:10:32 <Sgeo> Apparently Oklopol hit 40
14:11:03 <oklopol> yeah
14:11:17 <oklopol> 41 is trivial, don't solve anything so i can catch you
14:11:20 <oklopol> how much do you have?
14:11:37 <scarf> oklopol: hey, we're humans!
14:12:53 * Sgeo has 43
14:13:22 * Sgeo is trying the Limit Your Stack one
14:14:36 <oklopol> grrr
14:14:43 <Sgeo> Ugh, I give up on that one for now. If only it were facing a different direction
14:14:45 <oklopol> i just finished 42nd
14:15:28 <Sgeo> You and fizzie are both much faster than I am, I think
14:16:10 <fizzie> I did a couple easy ones outside the campaign tab (I just now noticed it's not just the sorting; it's different puzzles) so my 43 might not count.
14:16:23 <oklopol> 43
14:16:37 <oklopol> shit, fizzie is doing these?
14:16:41 <Sgeo> fizzie, what do you mean, "count"
14:16:42 <Sgeo> ?
14:16:50 <oklopol> i really have to go soon :|
14:16:55 * Sgeo hasn't been staying on the campaign
14:16:57 <Sgeo> Just easy ones
14:17:00 <oklopol> fizzie: you've dong exactly 43?
14:17:02 <fizzie> oklopol: The list was linked to just a moment ago; http://robozzle.com/scoreboard.aspx?today=1
14:17:05 <fizzie> oklopol: Yes, I'm a dong.
14:17:15 <oklopol> :D
14:17:17 <oklopol> *done
14:17:33 <oklopol> i've done them in order, since they've all been trivial sofar
14:17:46 <oklopol> okay DON'T DO ANYTHING NOW
14:17:53 <fizzie> Don't worry about me, though; I'm feeling so bored I might even stop here.
14:18:13 <Sgeo> fizzie, skip to some more advanced ones?
14:18:18 <Sgeo> Perhaps some stack stuff?
14:18:53 <oklopol> 44
14:18:55 <fizzie> Yes, I guess I could take a look.
14:19:32 <oklopol> okay i'm #1, time for pizza
14:20:43 <oklopol> although it would be awesome to have another allnight of competing with fizzie
14:20:48 <oklopol> maybe some other time
14:20:54 <oklopol> *allnighter
14:21:08 <fizzie> Maybe; I'll be mostly away this evening too.
14:21:28 <oklopol> yarrr
14:21:29 <oklopol> see ya ->
14:21:32 <Sgeo> Am I allowed to go solve another?
14:21:33 <Sgeo> Bye
14:25:31 <oklopol> yeah now you can solve anything you want
14:25:39 <oklopol> i just wanted to catch you
14:25:49 <oklopol> now it's done, and i'll never have to touch the game again
14:25:49 <FireFly> throw Sgeo;
14:27:14 <Sgeo> oklopol, does "never have to" mean that you won't? :(
14:28:23 <oklopol> i probably will, one of the best games i've seen
14:30:02 * MissPiggy is stuck :p
14:32:28 <Sgeo> MissPiggy, try a different puzzle
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14:34:55 <Sgeo> Also, stack tutorial: http://robozzle.com/forums/thread.aspx?id=1593
14:35:03 <Sgeo> There are a few good puzzles for practising the stack
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14:38:12 <Sgeo> Hi oerjan
14:38:47 <oerjan> g'day
14:40:38 * Sgeo points oerjan to robozzle.com
14:41:49 <fizzie> Yes, the latter ones seem reasonably nontrivial.
14:42:06 <oerjan> curses, i was trying to pretend not to have noticed that
14:42:09 <MissPiggy> I can't do smart reuse
14:42:43 <Sgeo> MissPiggy, it's rather easy. Just figure out what commands you might like to repeat, and put them in F2. Different set of commands, F3
14:42:57 <Sgeo> Then F1 is simply calls to F2 or F3 as needed
14:43:14 <Sgeo> (assuming I know what puzzle you're talking about)
14:44:03 <Sgeo> yeah
14:44:04 <MissPiggy> oh haha wow I convinced myself the solution was more difficult than that somehow
14:44:31 <MissPiggy> I saw 9 spaces but it starts at 0 so there's actually 10...
14:44:34 <MissPiggy> which means that way does work
14:47:49 <MissPiggy> durrr learn to count
14:50:09 <Sgeo> http://robozzle.com/puzzle.aspx?id=1587 looks tricky
14:55:56 <Sgeo> The JS client seems to break for me
14:56:40 <fizzie> http://robozzle.com/puzzle.aspx?id=318 -- in the campaign -- was nice; they start to approach some actual computation there.
14:57:42 * Sgeo isn't sure how he would even get started on that one
14:59:53 <asiekierka> back
15:00:02 <fizzie> Just nest calls of f2 and f3 -- f3 for each red brick, for example -- and have the trailing end of f3 have a single up-arrow; and arrange things that the whole pile returns after a green.
15:03:24 <Sgeo> Awesome. In the puzzle designer, in the solution part, you can press L to get a link that you can give to others
15:03:50 <Sgeo> Without submitting the puzzle
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15:10:51 <asiekierka> 7 puzzles left
15:10:51 <asiekierka> :P
15:11:26 * Sgeo goes to watch some SG-1
15:11:59 <asiekierka> the most common type of puzzles i found is the 4-3 puzzle
15:12:04 <asiekierka> 4 slots, 3 colors of blocks
15:12:06 <asiekierka> make it work
15:13:02 <Sgeo> It occurs to me that that description could apply to a wide variety of completely different puzzles
15:13:57 <asiekierka> the main rule of the 4-3 puzzles is that
15:14:07 <asiekierka> you have to go straight and assign 2 commands to 2 color types
15:14:20 <asiekierka> OR assign 3 commands to 3 color types (rare-ish)
15:14:27 <asiekierka> and then jump back to itself
15:16:20 <asiekierka> i want to make a game for my cellphone like that
15:18:16 <MissPiggy> now im stuck again
15:18:50 <Sgeo> MissPiggy, what puzzle
15:18:51 <Sgeo> ?
15:18:57 <MissPiggy> turn around
15:19:07 <asiekierka> yay, 38
15:19:14 <asiekierka> two more and i can has editorz
15:19:47 <asiekierka> i want to make "Universal Program" series
15:19:51 <asiekierka> the point is to use ONE program
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15:19:56 <asiekierka> and make it work on 3 different puzzles
15:20:08 <asiekierka> as in, not 100% different
15:20:11 <asiekierka> but somehow, yes
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15:20:21 <asiekierka> also
15:20:24 <asiekierka> what i like about roboZZle
15:20:32 <asiekierka> is that it doesn't remember half the levels i've already done
15:20:37 <asiekierka> nvm
15:20:42 <asiekierka> i just noticed this is a different puzzle
15:21:04 <Sgeo> Yeah, there are some repeats. They tend to get disliked
15:21:42 <asiekierka> by anyone who got past 40 puzzles, that it
15:21:43 <asiekierka> that is*
15:21:50 <asiekierka> the <40'ers LOVE them
15:22:05 <Sgeo> lol
15:22:47 <Sgeo> You know, it took me a while to realize that Robozzle = Robot + Puzzle
15:23:31 <asiekierka> YES! FORTY
15:23:44 <Sgeo> Congratulations
15:23:48 <asiekierka> yay, edit---...
15:23:54 <asiekierka> this is far below my expectations.
15:23:59 <Sgeo> ?
15:24:00 <asiekierka> time to write a competing game i guess
15:24:03 <asiekierka> i mean
15:24:12 <asiekierka> i thought this editor will have more functions
15:24:18 <MissPiggy> don't see how it is possible
15:24:35 <Sgeo> MissPiggy, I did it early, but forgot how
15:24:55 <Sgeo> asiekierka, what's wrong with the editor?
15:26:09 <asiekierka> Sgeo, no, not the editor
15:26:21 <asiekierka> i just thought the game's slightly more than BF
15:26:26 <asiekierka> while it has about the same number of commands as BF
15:26:58 * Sgeo thinks it would make more sense to compare it to a 2d language. After all, there is 2d memory, after a fasion
15:27:05 <asiekierka> no, i mean
15:27:09 <asiekierka> the number of commands in general
15:27:11 <asiekierka> let's count
15:27:17 <asiekierka> MOVE STRAIGHT, LEFT, RIGHT
15:27:21 <asiekierka> FUNCTION 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
15:27:26 <asiekierka> PAINT TILE RED, GREEN, BLUE
15:27:34 <asiekierka> and three kinds of prefixes
15:27:49 <asiekierka> that's 10 commands if we assume the FUNCTION command as being one command with a param
15:27:52 <asiekierka> told ya
15:27:59 <asiekierka> though yeah
15:28:06 <asiekierka> i think i could make such a game for a different platform
15:28:08 <asiekierka> I.E. the NES
15:30:24 <MissPiggy> I'm a bit bored of this
15:31:03 <MissPiggy> I wonder if there's a way to solve these automatically
15:31:15 <asiekierka> hm
15:31:22 <asiekierka> i want to submit but i'd rather like someone else see it first
15:31:23 <asiekierka> any way to
15:32:02 <Sgeo> asiekierka, go to the solver thing, then press L
15:32:11 <Sgeo> MissPiggy, there is a solver somewhere
15:32:22 <MissPiggy> cool how does it work
15:32:27 <asiekierka> http://robozzle.com/index.aspx#design/aaaaaaaaaayibaaaaaaiiaaaaaaiiagaaayibadaaaaaaadaaaaarBlaaaaaaarBdaaaaaBaaaaaaaBaaaaaaaAaaaaaaajaWoicaa,qerMgeeHqGa
15:32:27 <Sgeo> http://code.google.com/p/robozzlesolver/
15:32:31 <asiekierka> here, someone have a look
15:32:36 <asiekierka> and tell me if it's good enough for a submit
15:32:50 <asiekierka> hmm
15:32:55 <MissPiggy> asiekierka the solution was already coded in!!!
15:33:03 <asiekierka> oh !@#$%
15:33:10 <asiekierka> what now
15:33:36 <MissPiggy> "Small amount of instructions and program length limit make it possible to construct an automatic solver for puzzles based on backtracking"
15:33:38 <MissPiggy> humf
15:33:42 <MissPiggy> that's not very interesting
15:33:45 <asiekierka> http://robozzle.com/index.aspx#design/aaaaaaaaaayibaaaaaaiiaaaaaaiiagaaayibadaaaaaaadaaaaarBlaaaaaaarBdaaaaaBaaaaaaaBaaaaaaaAaaaaaaajaWoicaa,a - try this
15:33:51 <asiekierka> for anyone that hasn't
15:33:55 <asiekierka> as copying a soluton is not fun
15:34:28 <asiekierka> did anyone NOT SEE that other link
15:34:37 <MissPiggy> im http://robozzle.com/scoreboard.aspx?today=1
15:34:39 <MissPiggy> im the lowest
15:34:46 <asiekierka> :D
15:34:51 <asiekierka> you're 33rd
15:34:51 -!- Pthing has joined.
15:34:58 <asiekierka> im not really going past my 40 much
15:35:28 <asiekierka> http://robozzle.com/user.aspx?name=snydej - hey, this guy has some epic puzzles
15:36:16 <asiekierka> sgeo
15:36:27 <Sgeo> asiekierka?
15:36:31 <asiekierka> what
15:36:33 <asiekierka> well
15:36:37 <asiekierka> can you see my puzzle
15:36:40 <asiekierka> or did you peek the solution
15:36:44 <Sgeo> I peeked
15:36:48 <asiekierka> uuugh
15:36:51 <Sgeo> Sorry
15:36:54 <asiekierka> no problem
15:37:10 <asiekierka> wish fizzie was on
15:37:43 <Asztal> They changed the Java installer, it doesn't say anything about experiencing the power of Java any more :(
15:38:27 <MissPiggy> wow that snydej guy is cool
15:38:32 <asiekierka> yes
15:39:33 <asiekierka> guys, remember R.O.B., that idiot nes robot
15:39:38 <asiekierka> well he had something similar to robozzle
15:39:42 <asiekierka> only it converted an actual "robot"
15:39:43 <asiekierka> and was 1D
15:39:44 <MissPiggy> nes robot??
15:39:47 <asiekierka> yes
15:39:50 <asiekierka> that nes weirdo
15:39:55 <asiekierka> with huge glass eyes
15:41:30 <asiekierka> also
15:41:33 <asiekierka> why is the robozzle channel emty
15:41:34 <asiekierka> #robozzle
15:43:16 <Sgeo> I asked exactly that question on the forums
15:43:45 * Sgeo goes to watch some SG-1
15:43:56 <asiekierka> oh no you aren't
15:44:04 <Sgeo> ?
15:44:18 <asiekierka> you know what
15:44:25 <asiekierka> i want to make paper cubes of RoboZZle commands
15:44:35 <asiekierka> as in, all combinations
15:44:40 <MissPiggy> what are paper cubes
15:44:44 <asiekierka> you know
15:44:52 <asiekierka> the cubes that you make with gluing paper all around
15:45:06 <asiekierka> i think that'll be a total of 9*4=36 combinations needed
15:45:10 <asiekierka> for every possible command
15:49:24 <asiekierka> yay, langtozzle
15:50:02 -!- scarf|away has changed nick to scarf.
15:50:24 <Sgeo> langtozzle?
15:51:14 <MissPiggy> im trying to do that tree one from snydej
15:56:06 <asiekierka> langton's ant in robozzle
15:56:07 <asiekierka> easy peasy
15:57:23 <Sgeo> lol:
15:57:24 <Sgeo> "Right now I've seen a puzzle where F1 has 4 slots, F2 has 3 slots, and F3 has only one slot, and the author's solution has a length of 8, which means he needed F3! No wonder almost everybody solved it with a length of 7."
15:58:23 <asiekierka> LOL
15:58:32 <asiekierka> okay
15:58:33 <oklopol> MissPiggy: it's easy to make a puzzle a program can't solve
15:58:56 <MissPiggy> oklopuzzle how do you mean?
15:59:15 <oklopol> well i don't know what the length limit is
15:59:19 <MissPiggy> just don't give enuogh instructions
15:59:25 <oklopol> but even with like 8 i'm sure it's easy
15:59:42 <oklopol> obviously i mean solvable, but not solvable by a program
15:59:45 <oklopol> well see ya ->
15:59:58 <MissPiggy> solvable, but not solvable by a program??
16:00:47 <Sgeo> In theory, all puzzles are brute-forcable
16:00:48 <asiekierka> i wonder if anyone ever does the game of life in robozzle
16:01:24 <asiekierka> i think that is doable though
16:01:43 <asiekierka> or certainly would be if we had anything more than 3 block colors
16:01:46 <asiekierka> let's say 4
16:08:11 <MissPiggy> yay I did tree lol
16:09:24 <Sgeo> MissPiggy, which interface are you using
16:09:25 <Sgeo> ?
16:09:34 <MissPiggy> I ended up using silverlight one because it's better
16:09:54 <Sgeo> Indeed
16:18:12 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:21:23 <MissPiggy> that langtons ant thing is so cool I can't believe I didn't know about
16:21:59 <asiekierka> what
16:22:01 <asiekierka> did you see my vid
16:22:13 <MissPiggy> no
16:22:18 <asiekierka> cuz i uploaded one
16:22:20 <asiekierka> showing it in action
16:22:35 <MissPiggy> show me it?
16:23:50 <asiekierka> k
16:24:01 <asiekierka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDWmujQ3W_I
16:32:09 <Sgeo> asiekierka, post on the forums?
16:32:45 <asiekierka> maybe
16:32:46 <asiekierka> also
16:32:57 <asiekierka> how do you do stacks as i'm stuck on stack puzzles :(
16:33:12 <asiekierka> nvm
16:33:20 <asiekierka> found you posting it earlier
16:33:51 <oklopol> "MissPiggy: solvable, but not solvable by a program??" <<< yes
16:33:58 <asiekierka> oklopol: bruteforce
16:34:04 <asiekierka> assuming an app allows F1 to F5
16:34:08 <asiekierka> and all color painters
16:34:09 <oklopol> currently, computers aren't better than humans at all things
16:34:12 <asiekierka> you get 4 modifiers
16:34:18 <asiekierka> and 14 commands
16:34:33 <asiekierka> that's 56 command combos per tile
16:34:37 <oklopol> brute force doesn't help
16:34:45 <asiekierka> 2,5668550825308447236314129989887e+87
16:34:51 <asiekierka> yeah, that's the amount of combinations pretty much
16:34:57 <asiekierka> and thats not including empty tiles
16:35:05 <asiekierka> but let's assume the typical situation
16:35:15 <asiekierka> 1 color painter, 3 functions of a length of 20 total
16:35:31 <asiekierka> 7 commands, 4 modifiers
16:35:40 <asiekierka> 28 combinations of a command
16:36:21 <Sgeo> There are no infinite loops in Robozzle.. programs terminate after 1000 steps
16:36:33 <asiekierka> THAT makes 87732524600823436081182539776 combinations
16:36:38 <asiekierka> assuming 1 second for all of them
16:36:42 <asiekierka> we get... nevermind
16:37:19 <asiekierka> assuming 0.2 seconds but knowing we use 4 cores to do 4 combinations at once
16:37:29 <asiekierka> we're slimmed down to 4386626230041171804059126988,8 seconds
16:37:47 <Deewiant> Only 10^10 universe ages
16:38:43 <asiekierka> yes, that's notreally much
16:38:52 <asiekierka> only 141030935893813393906 years
16:39:00 <asiekierka> but we assume we're doing a simple stack puzzle
16:39:07 <asiekierka> we have no paint modifiers
16:39:11 <asiekierka> and only 2 functions for 10 commands
16:39:20 <asiekierka> err no paint colorers
16:39:25 <asiekierka> so we have 5 commands and 4 modifiers
16:39:33 <asiekierka> 10240000000000 combinations
16:40:27 <Sgeo> It occurs to me that not all combinations are productive
16:40:43 <Sgeo> left followed by right in same color, and right followed by left in same color, for instance
16:40:51 <asiekierka> that's optimization
16:40:58 <asiekierka> but
16:41:04 <asiekierka> that doesn't help that much
16:43:16 <asiekierka> im waiting for godwin's law to take effect
16:43:26 <asiekierka> in robozzle
16:44:49 <Sgeo> ..what? In the forums?
16:44:53 <asiekierka> no
16:44:58 <asiekierka> in a puzzle
16:45:02 <asiekierka> you know, a swastika-shaped puzzle
16:45:12 <Sgeo> Oh
16:45:26 * Sgeo can imagine that happening by accident
16:45:45 <Sgeo> I'd imagine that it already has, and no one noticed
16:47:14 <oerjan> that sentence fits _so_ many situations...
16:47:39 <oerjan> `addquote <Sgeo> I'd imagine that it already has, and no one noticed
16:47:41 <HackEgo> 117|<Sgeo> I'd imagine that it already has, and no one noticed
16:47:50 -!- Pthing has joined.
16:48:27 <asiekierka> what console should i implement a robozzle clone on?
16:48:33 <asiekierka> I was thinking DS
16:48:36 <asiekierka> and NES
16:49:12 <asiekierka> which one
16:49:15 <asiekierka> NES is retro and fun
16:49:24 <asiekierka> while DS is touche
16:49:57 <cpressey> Odyssey²
16:51:00 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
16:51:21 <MissPiggy> asiekierka very nice!!!
16:53:23 * Sgeo should probably learn wha Langton's Ant is
16:53:41 <scarf> Sgeo: 2D turing machine, two colours, four states for the four directions
16:54:07 <scarf> it changes the square underneath it from white to black (or vice versa), turns left if it's on a white square or right if it's on a black square, then goes forwards one square
16:55:28 <asiekierka> hm
16:55:30 <asiekierka> i want to make a joke video
16:55:34 <asiekierka> "First-First-Person Tetris"
16:55:40 <asiekierka> basically glue a webcam on my head
16:55:47 <asiekierka> and move it around while playing First-Person tetris
16:56:14 <scarf> why are first-person tetris references cropping up so often nowadays?
16:56:39 <asiekierka> because it's a simple concept
16:56:41 <asiekierka> implemented
16:57:08 <cpressey> asiekierka: Set your video in a post-apocalypse world and call it "Last-Person First-First-Person Tetris".
16:57:17 <asiekierka> LOL
16:57:26 <asiekierka> actually, nevermind, i'll do this now, in 1080p
16:57:35 <asiekierka> also, give me a green screen and i will
16:59:20 <Sgeo> Looks like the bug you mention showed up because someone registered ' ' as a user account. (I think they had to go around the client checks to do that.) I'll fix it.
16:59:22 * Sgeo facepalms
16:59:32 <asiekierka> done
17:03:40 <uorygl> "Universe age" is not a good unit of time. "Universe age as of 1950" is.
17:05:30 <cpressey> But any unit of time that changes as you say it is pretty interesting. And interesting > good :)
17:07:59 <asiekierka> Working on First-Person RoboZZle
17:08:09 <MissPiggy> first person :S
17:08:23 <MissPiggy> wouldn't that be horribly difficult to learn what strategy to use?
17:08:26 <asiekierka> as in
17:08:28 <asiekierka> a video mockup
17:12:02 <asiekierka> so far, 2 seconds done
17:12:36 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:13:06 * Sgeo seems to have turned the channel into RoboZZle addicts
17:25:09 <asiekierka> okay
17:25:11 <asiekierka> techdemo joke done
17:30:18 <Sgeo> upload and linky?
17:30:34 -!- nooga has joined.
17:37:01 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal").
17:39:56 -!- tombom has joined.
17:40:16 <oklopol> fizzie: you bastard, you've been playing :)
17:40:31 <fizzie> oklopol: Sowwwwwy. :/
17:40:56 <fizzie> But I've just done random puzzles here and there, so it doesn't matter!
17:41:10 <fizzie> The ones that have difficulty>3 are more interesting than the early ones.
17:41:25 <fizzie> Well, for some values of "interesting".
17:41:43 <fizzie> I mean, admittedly 346 is just a recursive tree-walk, but at least it's almost like programmering.
17:41:52 <MissPiggy> I did the tree walk
17:41:54 <tombom> wherer i stihs
17:41:54 <MissPiggy> that was fun
17:42:02 <MissPiggy> this robot language is pretty hard to program in though
17:43:51 <tombom> what site
17:44:05 <Sgeo> tombom, http://robozzle.com
17:44:17 <tombom> thanks
17:44:21 <Sgeo> yw
17:45:47 -!- sebbu has joined.
17:45:58 <asiekierka> i will up the techdemo joke soon
17:47:13 -!- adam_d has joined.
17:47:30 <Sgeo> techdemo joke == First-person RoboZZle, right?
17:51:00 <asiekierka> yes
17:51:06 <asiekierka> it's... oh my
17:53:24 <Sgeo> ?
17:54:32 <asiekierka> the techdemo
17:54:32 <asiekierka> really no
17:54:33 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:54:36 <asiekierka> turns 10 times in a second
17:54:40 <asiekierka> for langton's ant
17:54:58 <asiekierka> also, sgeo
17:55:02 <asiekierka> beat ya by 10
17:55:18 <Sgeo> asiekierka, I haven't been playing with it for an hour or two
18:03:16 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:16:56 <Sgeo> Well, Learning Stack 2 looks interesting
18:16:58 <Sgeo> But tricky
18:17:01 -!- scarf has changed nick to scarf|away.
18:17:51 -!- scarf|away has changed nick to scarf.
18:18:08 <fizzie> I don't think it was much different from Learning Stack no-number.
18:18:12 * Sgeo feels like he needs another function
18:18:53 * MissPiggy still can't do turn around
18:19:06 * Sgeo solved that one, but forgot how
18:19:58 <AnMaster> oh MissPiggy = soupdragon
18:20:04 <AnMaster> right
18:24:19 <MissPiggy> do you use the colors in turn around?
18:25:01 <fizzie> I can spoil Turn around for you if you want.
18:25:05 <MissPiggy> no
18:25:27 <MissPiggy> I should stop asking about it
18:25:41 <fizzie> But no, I didn't have any colors there. It's only blue squares, after all, and no paints.
18:26:03 <MissPiggy> yeah but them being in the palette made me think it was maybe an evil trick
18:28:42 <Sgeo> The only time the conditionals aren't present is in the tutorial
18:29:18 <MissPiggy> ahh that was a nasty one!!
18:29:30 <MissPiggy> I was thinking it must be about recursion but it wasn't
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18:32:08 <asiekierka> wtf, fizzie is at 72
18:32:13 <asiekierka> i'm only at 54
18:32:16 <FireFly> I did the turn around one
18:32:44 <Sgeo> FireFly, what's your username?
18:32:58 <FireFly> Uh, FireFly I think
18:33:03 <FireFly> Had to resort to the JS version, though
18:33:17 <FireFly> which meant I got bored after a while
18:45:31 <AnMaster> js version of what?
18:45:48 <FireFly> http://robozzle.com/
18:45:50 <FireFly> Of that
18:46:03 <AnMaster> FireFly, is there a plain html version?
18:46:09 <FireFly> Nope
18:46:26 <AnMaster> okay then, what is it about
18:46:30 <FireFly> Would be kinda hard to do that
18:46:35 <FireFly> brb, has to eat
18:46:42 <FireFly> uh
18:46:43 <FireFly> have*
18:46:45 <AnMaster> does one need to login?
18:46:47 <asiekierka> no
18:47:03 -!- kar8nga has joined.
18:47:09 <AnMaster> okay so where is the manual
18:47:12 <Sgeo> If you want to keep track of which puzzles you've solved, and eventually be able to submit your own puzzles, yes
18:47:24 <AnMaster> Sgeo, what are the controls and such?
18:47:26 <Sgeo> AnMaster, in the Silverlight version, there are tutorials
18:47:33 <AnMaster> Sgeo, I don't use that
18:47:36 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmqBVWi_Pc0
18:47:40 <AnMaster> I'm at most using javascript
18:47:50 <Sgeo> Is a video, you should be able to survive http://robozzle.com/js with that
18:48:12 -!- lieuwe has joined.
18:48:23 <AnMaster> Sgeo, meh. not worth it if they can't put up half a screen worth's of description
18:48:32 <fizzie> AnMaster: There's not that much of commands.
18:48:38 <fizzie> AnMaster: The wiki has the basic ones listed.
18:48:44 <MissPiggy> it's wroth getting silverlight, as much as I hate to admit it
18:48:50 <AnMaster> fizzie, what wiki?
18:48:51 <fizzie> http://www.robozzle.com/wiki/
18:49:05 <fizzie> Painting's not mentioned there, though.
18:49:27 <AnMaster> painting?
18:49:30 <Deewiant> MissPiggy: And on Linux?
18:49:36 <fizzie> Deewiant: Moonlight!
18:49:41 <fizzie> Should've tried it under that, actually.
18:49:59 <lieuwe> hi, i'm thinking about high-level esolangs, and i decided i should try to make one, but i can't really come up with anything :-p any help?
18:49:59 <Deewiant> go-mono.com was down earlier so I assumed it was dead
18:50:01 <MissPiggy> idk
18:50:02 <Deewiant> Now it's back up
18:50:09 <AnMaster> does moonlight work on freebsd on ppc? (please don't ask why I'm on that atm)
18:50:36 <Deewiant> Linux + x86(_64) only
18:50:38 <fizzie> AnMaster: Re painting, you can change the colors of the squares on some levels.
18:50:51 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but isn't mono supposed to be portable
18:51:12 <Deewiant> I don't know anything about mono or moonlight
18:53:46 <cpressey> lieuwe: There's a list of ideas on the esolang wiki, and on my site
18:53:47 <Deewiant> Tree III was fun.
18:54:17 <fizzie> "Moonlight 1.0 available in [FreeBSD] ports"
18:54:23 <fizzie> Of course 1.0 is not exactly new.
18:54:31 <fizzie> And the above was in March 2009.
18:54:58 <cpressey> lieuwe: http://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas
18:58:57 <Deewiant> Moonlight doesn't seem to work well at all, at least for me + robozzle.
18:59:31 <fizzie> Yes, that is not very surprising.
19:01:28 <asiekierka> I want to make an esolang that works on audio cassettes
19:01:32 <Deewiant> Thank god for javascript, I guess.
19:01:32 <asiekierka> with analogue data
19:04:40 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:06:52 <oklopol> star studded path I was the first one that slightly felt like programming
19:07:22 <oklopol> because i actually made a subroutine that means something
19:07:28 <oklopol> "get back on the path"
19:07:32 <MissPiggy> how do I find taht?
19:07:53 * MissPiggy has done 40 levels
19:08:59 <fizzie> oklopol: They get more programmatic at the end; I haven't done these at all systematically.
19:09:24 <fizzie> MissPiggy: You've done 62, according to the scoreboard.
19:09:39 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
19:10:05 <MissPiggy> :S
19:11:00 <lieuwe> cpressey: already searched the one on the wiki, i'll have a look at your site...
19:12:37 <lieuwe> cpressey: wait, whats the link :-p
19:14:28 <Deewiant> catseye.tc
19:15:12 <cpressey> lieuwe: at the bottom of the ideas list on the esowiki
19:15:27 <cpressey> http://catseye.tc/cpressey/louie.html
19:15:32 <cpressey> only four ideas there though
19:15:53 <cpressey> although i have others in my notes
19:15:58 <lieuwe> cpressey: i'll have a look
19:16:12 <cpressey> which i am probably never going to do, and so might show up on that page at some point
19:16:46 <lieuwe> cpressey: mostly low-level ideas...
19:16:49 <cpressey> in other news, in light of what scarf pointed out a few days ago, it's likely Burro is not Turing-complete
19:17:26 <cpressey> lieuwe: yeah, low-level tends to be more popular in the eso world.
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19:17:32 <lieuwe> cpressey: too bad...
19:18:15 <scarf> it's more, a genuinely new idea is easier to do low- than high- levle
19:18:16 <lieuwe> cpressey: çause i found a nice python lib in which you can easiely create high-level parsers 'n such
19:18:17 <scarf> *level
19:18:30 <scarf> and syntax is the least important part of an esolang
19:18:46 <cpressey> scarf: ooh, them's fightin' words :)
19:19:04 <scarf> cpressey: I wouldn't expect you, of all people, to disagree
19:19:14 <scarf> your esolangs are all about substance over syntax, I rather like them as a result
19:19:50 <cpressey> scarf: well, it's true that languages like Ook! are basically ignorable
19:19:52 <cpressey> but
19:20:26 <cpressey> i would hesitate to say that syntax is always the least important part of a language design.
19:20:38 <lieuwe> cpressey: high level ftw!
19:20:55 <scarf> it's important, but I think the other parts are more important
19:21:12 <scarf> (for instance, burro would be slightly visually nicer if {\} was (\), even if that made it harder to parse)
19:21:43 <lieuwe> on a different note, i'm trying to build a universal-ish esolang compiler in python and was wondering if i could get sum halp with it, especially with implementing new langs...
19:22:15 <scarf> I'm not enitrely sure it's obvious that burro is likely sub-TC, by the way
19:22:38 <cpressey> I think (don't quote me on this) that I think the most important part of an esolang is astonishment. Just playing with syntax isn't very astonishing, except to inexperienced programmers maybe. Playing with semantics is where the bigger impact lies. But -- that doesn't mean that there aren't astonishing things you can do with syntax.
19:23:22 <scarf> cpressey: I have a similar opinion; what makes a language esoteric is that it seems absurd
19:23:29 <scarf> being absurd to a regular programmer is slightly esoteric
19:23:37 <scarf> and being absurd even to a regular esolanger is very esoteric
19:23:58 <cpressey> scarf: well, nor am I, but Burro relies on that "reduce all while loops to one big while loop" transform, but like brainfuck it needs loops to do AND and OR, so I think it falls short.
19:24:20 <cpressey> absurd, yeah, also a good word.
19:24:24 <lieuwe> oh, idea, thinking about an exception-based language, that could be fun...(runs off mumbling something about try-except blocks)
19:24:26 <scarf> can't you nest conditionals?
19:24:36 <cpressey> also useful to keep in mind that, to a non-programming, all programming languages are esoteric :)
19:24:41 <cpressey> *non-programmer
19:24:43 <scarf> as in, instead of if (a && b), do if (a) if (b)
19:25:04 <cpressey> scarf: hm, yes maybe you can. been a while since i looked at it.
19:25:56 * Sgeo dares fizzie and oklopol to do http://robozzle.com/puzzle.aspx?id=102
19:26:27 <scarf> (incidentally, Reversible Brainfuck takes a similar path to Burro, except it uses a reversible sort of loop rather than storing state about which branch was used)
19:26:47 <scarf> [ If the current cell is nonzero, jump forwards to just after the matching ].
19:27:17 <scarf> (that's the opposite to what [ normally does in BF, and means that there's enough info to reverse a loop)
19:27:21 <scarf> (and ] is unchanged)
19:27:44 <oklopol> Sgeo: not there yet.
19:28:33 <asiekierka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKmkkIBjHlI - nnngh
19:28:40 <asiekierka> the fake first person robozzle techdemo
19:31:00 <Sgeo> asiekierka, post it to the forum?
19:31:35 <asiekierka> not now
19:31:40 <asiekierka> do you think it's any good, btw
19:35:01 <Sgeo> I think so, yes
19:36:35 -!- lieuwe has quit ("Page closed").
19:37:08 <asiekierka> i want to make an esolang based on some old storage medium
19:37:16 <asiekierka> what should i use, though
19:37:44 <scarf> punched cards
19:38:09 <asiekierka> yes
19:38:13 <asiekierka> but i need a reader for these
19:38:20 <asiekierka> cuz i want to code on actual punched cards
19:39:51 <cpressey> asiekierka: you could build one with a couple of lights, photocells, comparators...
19:40:03 <asiekierka> i can't solder
19:40:04 <asiekierka> :P
19:40:06 <asiekierka> also, afk
19:40:06 <cpressey> might need to make your own oversize punch cards or paper tape
19:42:08 <cpressey> scarf: Do you think it would be possible to show that the set of Reversible Brainfuck programs forms a group (under computational equivalence -- like Burro)? because i wasn't thinking of reversibility at all when I designed Burro, and now I'm wondering if the two notions are equivalent (or how close they are if not)
19:42:36 <scarf> cpressey: they're pretty close notions, at least
19:42:52 <scarf> program concatenation is an operation that makes most 1d reversible languages into groups
19:43:18 <scarf> because it associates, and has an inverse if you have a reversible language
19:43:38 <cpressey> indeed, but i can also imagine some reversible programs that aren't groups -- for example, if several programs have the same, non-unique annihilator
19:43:49 <cpressey> reversible languages, i mean
19:43:54 <scarf> that isn't reversible, because then you couldn't reverse the annihilator
19:44:01 <cpressey> hm, i suppose not.
19:44:34 <scarf> wait, what's the inverse of {a\b} in burro?
19:44:53 <cpressey> it's been too long for me to remember :)
19:44:59 <scarf> it doesn't seem to say in the article
19:45:11 <cpressey> I think it alone might be illegal?
19:45:12 <scarf> and it's hard to see that there is one, without being able to retroactively determine which branch it took
19:45:22 <scarf> oh, I see, it alone is illegal
19:45:36 <scarf> but that means you aren't properly creating a group
19:46:01 <scarf> because a(b/c)d has an inverse, but its inverse can't be used as a program in its own right
19:46:31 <scarf> so your composition operator isn't defined for all pairs of set elements
19:46:38 <cpressey> Hm.
19:47:53 <Sgeo> fizzie solved 86 puzzles already?!
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19:50:29 <cpressey> scarf: Not sure. Is a(b/c)d legal by itself? I'd have to check.
19:50:59 <cpressey> vaguely remember something about (){} needing to balance in order to be syntactically ok
19:51:13 <cpressey> i'll look it up later when i have more time :)
19:51:18 <scarf> I think it is
19:51:21 <scarf> but ok
19:51:27 <scarf> I was massively busy earlier today myself, and now I'm resting
19:51:31 <scarf> a deadline got bumped
19:53:23 <Sgeo> Yay! Did Learning Stack 2!
19:54:58 <oklopol> was that the one where you use the stack in the same way as in every other level? :P
19:55:17 <oklopol> move once after you return
19:55:19 <fizzie> oklopol: At least the same way as in Learning Stack no-number.
19:55:35 <oklopol> at least 10 puzzles have used the exact same idea
19:55:46 <fizzie> Sgeo: To be completely honest, I did a couple of the low-difficulty ones outside the campaign list to keep my name high on the list.
19:56:08 <Sgeo> I'm doing a lot of low-difficulties outside the campaign list
19:56:40 <Sgeo> I saw some forum post suggesting that the campaign list was hand-picked in an effort to stop newbies from getting fed up with poorly designed and repeptitive puzzles
19:56:41 <fizzie> Did have to do some twiddling in Second kind of memory (109); there were so few command slots available there.
19:57:01 <fizzie> The campaign list has had some rather duplicatey entries too, though.
19:57:01 <oklopol> there are levels outside campaign?
19:57:10 <fizzie> oklopol: Select one of the other sort orders.
19:57:34 <oklopol> those are different levels?
19:57:41 <oklopol> i assumed they were different sort orders
19:57:50 <fizzie> Those list all the levels, instead of just the short-ish campaign list.
19:58:12 <fizzie> Rank-1 person in the "most solved" scoreboard has 1274 puzzles solved, so...
19:58:17 <oklopol> :D
19:58:18 <oklopol> yeah
19:58:38 <Sgeo> Also, look how many pages there are in campaign, then choose one of the other orderings
20:00:16 <fizzie> I have done 78 from the campaign list, if my grep is correct.
20:11:18 <Sgeo> Hey, about the paper blocks: Would "if blue paint blue" etc. be included?
20:11:24 <Sgeo> Literally pointless
20:15:06 <fizzie> "Another speed control" was at least a bit of fun.
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20:30:13 <Sgeo> Anyone in here submit any puzzles?
20:31:20 <Sgeo> Well, anyone planning to?
20:31:29 -!- zzo38 has joined.
20:32:13 <MissPiggy> I can't do anything cooler than the ant
20:32:20 <MissPiggy> langtons ant
20:36:11 <zzo38> It's...
20:37:13 <Sgeo> http://robozzle.com
20:37:49 <Sgeo> Grr. I was once at the top of the 24h scoreboard
20:38:52 <oklopol> fizzie: i hate you :P
20:39:00 <cpressey> Hi zzo38
20:39:17 <oklopol> although i'm more afraid of Deewiant, i hear he's a total gamer
20:39:30 <MissPiggy> hey
20:39:35 <zzo38> If cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl
20:39:36 <Deewiant> Not much of a puzzle gamer
20:39:41 <MissPiggy> I don't understand how someone can play 1274 maps of this game?????
20:40:05 <Sgeo> MissPiggy, presumably the person solved them faster than people put out new ones
20:40:31 * Sgeo does want to see esolanger levels
20:40:58 <Sgeo> So at least I'll have indirectly contributed something by having introduced talented people to the game.
20:41:06 <Sgeo> >.>
20:42:53 <oklopol> can you reach the stars was fun
20:43:22 <fizzie> If cryptography is outlawed, 15XoZhnZ5ct8t9nVhROExQVTvILP59DdJ5Ob8D2yEXo=.
20:43:29 <fizzie> Yes, it was.
20:43:51 <MissPiggy> how do I find that?
20:44:02 <Sgeo> MissPiggy, http://robozzle.com/puzzles.aspx
20:44:34 <fizzie> Number 14, fwiw.
20:44:50 <MissPiggy> wow this looks hard
20:45:54 <zzo38> - "The house is small", I said.
20:45:57 <zzo38> - "Never open the attic", said every child (reciting Egbert's third memorandum).
20:46:01 <zzo38> - "Eat sausages", said a great emperor.
20:51:03 <cpressey> If dada is outlawed, sturgeon.
20:53:33 <zzo38> O, ya....
20:59:26 <MissPiggy> I can't do that
21:00:02 <MissPiggy> there doesn't seem to be any pattern to it
21:03:02 <fizzie> You don't need any special "pattern", just let the colors guide you. (If this is about reach the stars.)
21:03:29 <MissPiggy> the colors don't guide you :
21:03:30 <MissPiggy> :P
21:05:28 <MissPiggy> ho hm maybe I see the pattern
21:05:40 <MissPiggy> you could do it column by column, maybe
21:05:48 <oklopol> maybe
21:05:55 <MissPiggy> :S
21:09:03 -!- jpc has joined.
21:13:13 <cpressey> class AbstractFacadeBuilderFactoryFactorySingletonFactoryBridge
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21:16:07 <scarf> cpressey: that's even worse than ORK
21:16:19 <scarf> hmm, there should be an esolang that takes design patterns to an absurd extent
21:16:38 <cpressey> "You had me at 'SingletonFactory'..."
21:17:31 <scarf> a singleton factory could be useful on a heavily overloaded object
21:17:41 <scarf> even if you're only ever going to make one of it
21:20:06 <MissPiggy> "Since this definition is tail-recursive, a loop can be used to replace the recursion." *sigh*
21:23:05 <Sgeo> MissPiggy, oklopol fizzie, igoro is in #robozzle
21:25:01 <pikhq> cpressey: Imma call that "lambda".
21:29:11 <zzo38> Those messages about house is small and so on, it is a special kind of word game, now figure it out
21:29:57 <MissPiggy> zzo38 ;_;
21:30:06 <MissPiggy> I don't even know how to start
21:30:59 <zzo38> OK
21:32:08 <cpressey> Damn, zzo38, I thought you were just being weird. Now I'm all disappointed an' stuff.
21:32:29 <pikhq> struct void_ptr {void_ptr(void*p):p(p){};template<typename T>operator T*() const {return (T*)p;};void *p;}
21:32:30 <pikhq> I MOCK YOU, C++ TYPE SYSTEM.
21:32:33 <zzo38> cpressey: I am just being weird, too. But it is also a special kind of word game.
21:34:45 <zzo38> In page 45 of the 2600 26:4 I can see the address for Michael E. Short, the address for the prison in Texas is half of 2600
21:35:03 <zzo38> (The part before "FM", what does "FM" stand for in Texas prison addresses, anyways?)
21:35:22 <pikhq> Sorry, make that:
21:35:34 <pikhq> struct void_ptr {template <typename T>void_ptr(T*p):p((void*)p){};template<typename T>operator T*() const {return (T*)p;};void *p;}
21:36:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, did you implement support for that "befunge 98 without the stuff also in befunge 93" mode in ccbi?
21:37:23 <Sgeo> Deewiant, you made a puzzle and didn't tell us?
21:39:51 <zzo38> I think I figured out what FM is for, it is for Farm-to-market road.
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21:46:26 <Deewiant> AnMaster: No, I didn't, and as I said, I won't.
21:46:35 <Deewiant> Unless there's enormous popular demand for it. :-P
21:46:40 <Deewiant> Sgeo: My network died.
21:46:44 <zzo38> So, it seems now, that at least one of the people writing to 2600 from prison has not actually committed a crime. This is what I thought at first, too. But now I checked.
21:47:34 -!- Fredrik1994 has joined.
21:48:02 <zzo38> Did you know that there are rotary payphones in Japan?
21:49:15 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
21:51:20 <SimonRC> zzo38: you didn't accidentally enter the city's Britaintown did you?
21:51:36 <SimonRC> (kinda like Chinatown)
21:52:35 <zzo38> I was never there, actually. The phone was in 2600. It was found in the lobby of a hotel in rural Suzuka. And the labels on the phone are still in Japanese.
21:53:07 <zzo38> I have seen pictures of other pink rotary payphones in Japan, too.
21:53:23 <pikhq> SimonRC: ... *Britaintown*?
21:55:01 <SimonRC> well, whatever
21:55:46 <SimonRC> I don't think Japan really has the number of poor British immigrants to cause ghettoisation in that form
22:01:44 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/fortune/fortune.php?browse=24914
22:05:50 <zzo38> Other pictures of payphones include: Phones where the handset (and sometimes also the keypad) have been removed, making the phone unusable (found in United States).
22:06:19 <zzo38> There is also a picture of Chinese payphones found in some part of the United States with no connection to the Chinese at all.
22:07:12 <AnMaster> <zzo38> I think I figured out what FM is for, it is for Farm-to-market road. <-- usually it means frequency modulation though?
22:08:27 <zzo38> Yes, but this is a address in Texas. Addresses in Texas certainly can't be frequency modulation, isn't it??
22:09:07 <AnMaster> <SimonRC> zzo38: you didn't accidentally enter the city's Britaintown did you? <-- that isn't exclusively UK though. At least US has them too iirc. Not sure if Sweden does (don't think so, could be wrong)
22:09:59 <AnMaster> zzo38, why not, there is a "radiator street" in a nearby industrial part of this town
22:11:04 <AnMaster> and near Ericson (they have a factory near here) there is "Telephony road"
22:11:31 <AnMaster> zzo38, and isn't there "Microsoft road" near MS HQ?
22:11:55 <AnMaster> so I fail to see why you couldn't have "FM street" or such
22:12:01 <AnMaster> zzo38, well?
22:12:48 <cpressey> One Microsoft Way
22:13:01 <cpressey> ...no double meaning there.
22:13:22 <AnMaster> cpressey, XD
22:13:41 <AnMaster> cpressey, you put the number in front in US
22:13:42 <AnMaster> ?
22:13:44 <AnMaster> how very strange
22:13:52 <AnMaster> in Swedish we would say the number after
22:13:54 <cpressey> Yep.
22:14:04 <cpressey> 1313 Mockingbird Lane
22:14:04 <AnMaster> but then, US also use PDP-endianness for dates ;P
22:14:17 <AnMaster> Storgatan 1
22:14:36 <cpressey> But apartment number comes after: 1313 Mockingbird Lane, Suite 301.
22:14:43 <AnMaster> which means "[The, but as a suffix in Swedish] Great-streat 1"
22:14:58 <cpressey> I don't suppose you put the suite number in front :0
22:14:59 <AnMaster> very common street name for main streets around here
22:15:07 <AnMaster> cpressey, suite numnber?
22:15:10 <AnMaster> number*?
22:15:16 <AnMaster> I have no idea what that is
22:15:17 <zzo38> I don't know the answer to your questions
22:15:18 <cpressey> Apartment number
22:15:24 <AnMaster> as for apartment number
22:15:25 <AnMaster> hm
22:15:29 <AnMaster> isn't it based on name
22:15:37 <AnMaster> not sure how that works
22:15:44 <cpressey> Apartment = suite, more or less
22:15:45 <AnMaster> this is a detached house
22:16:06 <cpressey> Apparently Korean addresses are really mind-blowing
22:16:12 <AnMaster> zzo38, well it was you who questioned me "Addresses in Texas certainly can't be frequency modulation, isn't it??"
22:16:28 <AnMaster> cpressey, oh? In what way?
22:17:51 <cpressey> Well, they're more strict in the hierarchy, it looks like: you need to include the ward in the city, and the neighbourhood in the ward
22:18:00 <AnMaster> hm
22:18:07 <cpressey> Which isn't as strange as i thought it would be
22:18:10 <AnMaster> cpressey, not just postal code?
22:18:22 <cpressey> Oh they want those too!
22:18:27 <AnMaster> as well?
22:18:27 <AnMaster> heh
22:19:08 <zzo38> In D&D, you have to think ahead not only more than the DM, but also more than yourself. It is necessary to figure out plans for stuff that I don't even know what it is, yet.
22:20:20 <AnMaster> <cpressey> Damn, zzo38, I thought you were just being weird. Now I'm all disappointed an' stuff. <-- still disappointed?
22:20:39 <AnMaster> also when was that word game?
22:21:35 <zzo38> 12:45:54
22:21:50 <AnMaster> zzo38, what timezone?
22:22:07 <zzo38> The timezone that the log software uses.
22:22:17 <AnMaster> meh, I use local logs
22:22:23 <AnMaster> and those are on UTC
22:22:33 <AnMaster> brb will check in a bit
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22:35:09 * Sgeo works on more puzzles
22:36:28 <SimonRC> regarding "Britaintown", I said that because I can imagine people getting more nostalgic over britain from decades ago than USA from the same time... maybe
22:39:14 <Sgeo> Oh come on, no one's talking about RoboZZle now?
22:47:14 -!- Fredrik1994 has changed nick to FIQ.
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22:56:17 <AnMaster> garlic: the base of all properly composed meals
22:56:41 <AnMaster> Sgeo, it isn't very esoteric is it?
22:57:02 <Sgeo> It's Turing-complete, apparently
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22:57:41 <MissPiggy> what's not esoteric?
22:58:29 <Sgeo> MissPiggy, RoboZZle
22:58:36 <Sgeo> According to AnMaster
22:58:41 <MissPiggy> oh well you should play the tree search one
22:58:57 <Sgeo> Me or AnMaster?
22:59:05 * Sgeo is playing RRB, RRG
22:59:29 <MissPiggy> is it like programming in assembly?
22:59:34 <MissPiggy> I wouldn't think so
23:00:26 <Sgeo> Solved it with a spare in F2!
23:03:43 <fizzie> There are often completely unnecessary functions.
23:04:19 <Sgeo> I think that having extra space can make it harder. If you see 4 spaces, you know the solution has to be somewhat simple.
23:04:32 <Sgeo> If you see 10 spaces, you might try more complex, less correct things
23:04:45 <fizzie> Though my RRB, RRG was the whole 9 slots; 8 seems to be the smallest known.
23:06:10 <oklopol> started doing the bigger list in order, how are you supposed to do paint the town red, i solved it, but i can't find a way to use the paint
23:06:30 <Sgeo> AnMaster, join us!
23:07:01 <oklopol> fizzie: in the ones in campaign mode, it's not that frequent
23:07:05 <oklopol> well, or then i just suck
23:08:12 <fizzie> oklopol: Well, I've done things very much out-of-order, maybe I've just hit on the ones with extra spaces. Quite many puzzles at least seem to have multiple-length solutions submitted.
23:08:16 <fizzie> Someone should do some statistics.
23:08:48 <fizzie> In which order are you doing the bigger list?
23:09:34 <oklopol> i'm saying not many have an *extra function*
23:09:52 -!- FIQ has quit ("- nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -").
23:10:02 <oklopol> maybe like every third has extra space
23:10:28 <fizzie> oklopol: Oh, right. Well, yes, maybe it's not *that* common; but it's not so ultra-rare either.
23:10:44 <fizzie> Deewiant: Was 1634 yours, or was this some other deewiant?
23:11:22 <fizzie> Because -- speaking of extra functions -- it has unnecessary f3 and f4 there. :p
23:11:26 <Deewiant> Probably mine.
23:11:40 <Deewiant> Oh well, I'm not that smart.
23:12:05 <fizzie> http://www.robozzle.com/puzzle.aspx?id=1634 -- the 7-length solution, or at least mine, does it with just f1 and f2.
23:12:57 <MissPiggy> hey it was a good level, I had to use the whole program space though
23:13:12 <Deewiant> I did 247 in 11 and got annoyed when I saw the wallhugger in the wiki so I did that one
23:14:06 <fizzie> I seem to have done 247 in length 6, but I don't remember what it was like.
23:14:16 <fizzie> I don't suppose the game saves the submitted solutions anywhere accessible?
23:14:40 <Deewiant> Doubtful.
23:14:57 <fizzie> oklopol: <fizzie> In which order are you doing the bigger list?
23:15:15 <MissPiggy> I'm jelous of fizzies high level of skill re this game
23:15:16 <Sgeo> That would be a nice feature
23:15:26 <MissPiggy> fizzie igoro2 (the creator) is in @robozzle
23:15:29 <MissPiggy> #robozle
23:15:33 <MissPiggy> #robozzle
23:16:04 <fizzie> Yes, but it's supposedly a person. I don't think I do well with people.
23:16:25 <MissPiggy> that's just a rumor
23:16:50 <Sgeo> fizzie, make a feature suggestion?
23:16:56 <oklopol> fizzie: i think easiest to hardest :)
23:17:16 <Sgeo> Although I imagine storing each solution would take a lot of space.
23:17:26 <Deewiant> I don't.
23:17:40 <Sgeo> What if reddit decided to come by?
23:17:42 <Deewiant> Given that the average size of a solution is probably around 10-20 bytes.
23:17:54 <Deewiant> And that's without any compression.
23:18:12 <Deewiant> If reddit comes by you might have to store a whole megabyte more than usual.
23:18:14 <fizzie> Storing each submitted solution, maybe, but the shortest one from each registered user -- it already stores the length of that.
23:18:16 <oklopol> Sgeo: if everyone in the world started playing, you might need a few gigs.
23:18:38 <Deewiant> Well yes, if it remembers all your failures that'd be expensive.
23:18:44 <Deewiant> But I doubt anybody cares about them anyway. :-P
23:19:15 <Sgeo> What about multiple shortest solutions for each user?
23:19:33 * Sgeo goes to post a feature suggestion to the forums
23:19:35 <Deewiant> Maybe it could let you store 3 solutions per puzzle.
23:19:39 <Deewiant> Or something like that.
23:20:09 <SimonRC> or give some way for people to put encrypted solutions in forum sigs as text?
23:20:20 <SimonRC> maybe only decryptable if you have solved the same puzzle?
23:21:11 -!- tombom__ has joined.
23:21:27 <Sgeo> SimonRC, join in the fun?
23:21:47 <SimonRC> nah
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23:33:22 <oklopol> fucking fizzie
23:33:23 <oklopol> ...
23:33:25 <oklopol> :D
23:33:32 <oklopol> constantly like 2 points ahead of me
23:33:43 <fizzie> oklopol: I was about to say the same to you. Constantly just about to go past!
23:33:55 <oklopol> basically you have like 10 browsers open, and just press run every time you see i've solved something.
23:34:27 <Deewiant> I got frustrated with an almost-solution to 1633 and stopped, so knock yourselves out.
23:35:38 <fizzie> Am going to have to sleep soon, anyway, have to take an early trip to IIKEA tomorrow.
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23:37:38 <oklopol> FUCK
23:37:49 <oklopol> :D
23:37:51 <oklopol> oh sleep
23:37:52 <oklopol> cool.
23:38:12 <oklopol> i have tons of homework to do
23:38:12 <oklopol> before sleeps
23:38:13 <Sgeo> There are way too many flip-flop-likes
23:38:17 <oklopol> so, good.
23:39:34 <Sgeo> What will we do tomorrow, when we all drop off of the 24h list?
23:39:43 <Sgeo> Will we just keep reloading eachother's profiles?
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23:39:54 <Deewiant> Do another 100, of course.
23:41:22 <Sgeo> Yet another trivial stack puzzle *sigh*
23:41:56 <MissPiggy> now you're thinking with stacks!
23:42:18 <MissPiggy> I should do some homework :[
23:42:40 <Sgeo> RoboZZle is a thief of time
23:43:32 <cpressey> From my perspective, seems like RoboZZle is crack
23:43:36 <Sgeo> "sgeo: I store all solutions on the server, but I don't expose the ability to get back at them. I'll look into it!"
23:44:40 <Sgeo> cpressey, try it! >:D
23:47:19 <oklopol> fizzie: did you start doing the simple ones or what the fuck is going on?
23:47:41 <fizzie> oklopol: The simple ones. :p
23:48:20 <Deewiant> I started doing the simple ones earlier but I managed to get stuck on some of the sub-1.5 ones for up to 15 minutes occasionally so it didn't help too much
23:48:39 <oklopol> been there
23:49:34 <oklopol> i always forget to look beyond the random details, because i usually assume everything is relevant in a puzzle
23:49:45 <oklopol> otherwise it's not a very professional puzzle
23:50:29 <oklopol> and god i hate the ones with a huge, random level, and just a few slots
23:51:09 <Deewiant> Those were usually easy: just grab the pattern from the first three or so grid cells and it probably works for the whole map :-P
23:52:51 * SimonRC goes to bed
23:53:07 <Sgeo> Deewiant, I came across a puzzle like that
23:53:19 <Deewiant> I've come across six or so
23:53:36 <Sgeo> Maybe for the ones that scare me, I should try seeing if that applies
23:53:51 <Deewiant> Their difficulty ratings will be below 2
23:54:15 <Sgeo> Well, the "easy" ones that scare me
23:54:31 <Sgeo> Such as siika da FuUU
23:54:34 <Sgeo> I think I'll skip it
23:54:42 <Deewiant> All the siika ones were such IIRC
23:55:01 <oklopol> Deewiant: i mostly hate them because they are pointless
23:55:10 <oklopol> so pointless the amount of points in them is negative
23:55:32 <oklopol> kahen kilon siika
23:55:32 <Deewiant> Yeah, they're annoying
23:55:37 <Deewiant> :-P
23:55:48 <oklopol> an example of an annoying meme *and* an annoying level
23:55:50 <oklopol> well set of levels
23:56:19 <Deewiant> Aye
23:56:34 <Sgeo> People seem to like them
23:57:29 <Deewiant> I can't like or dislike anything in the js version :-P
23:58:09 <Sgeo> Deewiant, then use Silverlight or Moonlight
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23:58:15 <Deewiant> Moonlight didn't work as I said
23:58:45 <Sgeo> Want to write something on the forums? http://robozzle.com/forums/
23:58:47 <Deewiant> Well, it worked partially, but e.g. logging in didn't happen.
23:58:52 <Deewiant> Not in particular.
23:58:55 <Deewiant> I don't really care.
23:59:11 -!- pikhq has joined.
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