←2010-04-18 2010-04-19 2010-04-20→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:05:35 <Sgeo> "END
00:05:36 <Sgeo> Like BAD, but worse. The interpreter terminated, either as a result of Mycology realizing that the interpreter doesnt support something required in a future test, or as a result of the interpreter crashing." How, exactly, is Mycology able to detect the interpreter crashing?
00:06:16 <alise> Perhaps a wrapper shell script? Dunno.
00:06:18 <alise> Oh.
00:06:22 <alise> That's just how he reported the results.
00:06:26 <alise> Not what Mycology /says/.
00:10:59 <Sgeo> If I make a t for LiveFunge-98, will anyone be angry?
00:12:54 <alise> ?
00:13:17 <Sgeo> Concurrent Befunge-93!
00:14:14 <Rugxulo> there are no Befunge jobs, silly :-P
00:15:21 <alise> you said -98
00:15:54 * Sgeo meant -93
00:15:55 <Sgeo> >.>
00:17:12 -!- Tritonio_GR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:17:54 -!- Asztal has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
00:18:47 -!- Asztal has joined.
00:30:06 * Sgeo misreads Church's Thesis as "Chuck's Thesis"
00:31:46 -!- Rugxulo has quit (Quit: Rugxulo).
00:32:24 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:32:37 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:38:01 -!- alise has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
00:50:07 -!- jcp has joined.
00:59:33 -!- alise has joined.
00:59:36 <alise> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=
00:59:37 <alise> this is GOLD
00:59:41 -!- alise has set topic: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi= | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
00:59:45 <alise> someone please remind me of it next week
01:00:56 <alise> Note that here we make an essential use of the universes hierarchy: There is not a unique CAT ,
01:00:57 <alise> there is a family of CATi , and each CATi is a Categoryj for i < j . Thus we do not have \small"
01:00:57 <alise> and \large" categories, but \relatively small" categories. Thus the construction of CAT above is
01:00:57 <alise> consistent with the analysis by Coquand 4] of paradoxes related to the category of categories.
01:00:59 <alise> amazing
01:01:07 <alise> i gotta go now
01:01:10 <alise> Sgeo: it's time again
01:01:28 <Sgeo> Bye alise
01:01:41 <alise> see you guyayayz
01:02:11 <Sgeo> Keep working on improving your situation
01:02:25 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:02:27 <alise> yep
01:02:27 <alise> bye
01:02:31 -!- alise has quit (Client Quit).
01:12:08 <olsner> tried implementing bf using a very small subset of my language's features in order to try and catch the ones that were already implemented
01:12:43 <olsner> turns out I have to implement a huge amount of new stuff and complicate the grammar in order to do something useful
01:27:16 -!- coppro has joined.
01:29:51 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:30:32 -!- coppro has joined.
01:38:55 -!- aschueler has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
01:41:14 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: reboot).
02:06:28 -!- cheater2 has joined.
02:11:59 -!- Sleeping_boy has joined.
02:21:52 -!- Sleeping_boy has quit (Quit: 暂离).
02:28:33 -!- coppro has joined.
02:35:55 -!- jcp has quit (Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router.).
02:36:22 -!- michael__ has joined.
02:36:40 -!- michael__ has changed nick to maedhros777.
02:37:28 <maedhros777> Does anyone here know of a good Fugue compiler besides this one: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Fugue_Compiler? Because I'm having problems with that compiler.
02:38:21 <maedhros777> I use Linux, and when I run the executable that's created it says "cannot execute binary file"
02:43:45 -!- cheater2 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
02:46:18 <Gregor> maedhros777: Looks to me like that compiler's output is PE/COFF for Windows. Try wine? Alternatively, write your own :)
02:46:56 <maedhros777> Ok, I'll try wine -- judging by the size of the compiler, I don't think I could write my own :)
02:51:51 <Gregor> Sounds like it's about time for EgoFugue :P
02:52:20 <maedhros777> I just tried wine and it didn't work, unfortunately. Maybe I'll have to write my own compiler, because this language seems interesting.
02:52:46 <maedhros777> What would be really awesome would be if I could make a piece that actually sounded good and executed :)
02:53:29 <maedhros777> Bye now.
02:53:31 -!- maedhros777 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:55:35 -!- Oranjer has left (?).
02:55:36 <Sgeo> AndroFugue!
02:55:43 * Sgeo is obsessed with Android
02:58:55 -!- jcp has joined.
03:00:00 -!- augur has joined.
03:29:43 -!- Asztal has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
03:33:14 <Sgeo> lower ASCII values
03:33:14 <Sgeo> means lower precedence (isn't that *much* easier to remember?
03:34:06 <Sgeo> http://catseye.tc/projects/n-dcnc/doc/readme.txt
03:34:16 <Sgeo> Aces are only high in certain restricted situations, such
03:34:17 <Sgeo> as when the compiler mistakenly assumes they are high.
03:38:48 <Sgeo> Awesome!
03:38:58 <Sgeo> Ifs are division by 0!
03:39:05 <Sgeo> erm, just division
03:45:12 <coppro> that language spec is awesome
03:56:50 * Sgeo notes that there exists another Concurrent Befunge-93 interpreter
04:00:24 * Sgeo thinks that a Befunge-93 Live Wallpaper might not actually be that pretty
04:36:06 <calamari> Sgeo: android can have live wallpaper?
04:36:28 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz1YBcYw_qE
04:37:40 <Sgeo> As of 2.1 I think
04:50:57 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
05:20:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
05:26:08 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
05:34:29 -!- coppro has joined.
05:36:47 -!- Owner has joined.
05:37:06 -!- Owner has changed nick to evincar.
05:37:45 <evincar> Arbitrary obligatory introduction.
05:39:43 <evincar> What, nobody's up tonight?
05:41:59 * Sgeo is awake
05:42:18 <evincar> Woah hey.
05:42:21 <evincar> I'm not alone.
05:47:24 <evincar> You working on anything interesting?
05:48:06 <Sgeo> If you asked me around the beginning of 2008, I'd have said yes
05:48:21 <Sgeo> Actually, I am working on something now not related to esolangs
05:48:58 -!- augur has joined.
05:49:11 <evincar> Haha...well, I've got a while. What's the story from then to now?
05:49:35 <Sgeo> No one but me cared, so I stopped
05:49:49 * Sgeo was an overzealous promoter
05:50:05 <evincar> Esolangs'll do that to you.
05:50:12 <evincar> Cruell mistresses, the lot of 'em.
05:50:52 <evincar> For the record, that was supposed to be "cruelle", but I mistyped my misspelling. :/
05:51:54 <evincar> Anyway, what's the project of the now?
05:52:43 <Sgeo> A game
05:52:49 <Sgeo> In Active Worlds
05:52:57 <Sgeo> That I shouldn't be talking about, but have, at length
05:53:18 <evincar> Haha...love that.
05:53:24 <evincar> Call it drumming up interest.
05:53:34 <Sgeo> lol
05:54:20 <evincar> All the language stuff I do nowadays is DSLs to fill specific needs in other projects.
05:54:24 <evincar> http://sourceforge.net/projects/protodata/
05:54:38 <evincar> https://sourceforge.net/projects/vision-language/
05:55:04 * Sgeo is eating then sleeping
05:55:10 <Sgeo> I'll look at those another day probably
05:55:27 <evincar> Alright, whatever you want.
05:55:38 <evincar> I'm just trying to kill some time, honestly.
05:55:50 <evincar> Somebody caring would be pretty cool, though.
05:56:03 <Sgeo> Hm, those project seem interesting
05:56:14 <Sgeo> Oh, and someone reviewed the Vision Web Template thing
05:56:27 <evincar> Eh?
05:56:29 <Sgeo> Although I don't quite understand that one. The Protodata seems nice
05:56:34 <Sgeo> http://sourceforge.net/projects/vision-language/
05:56:58 <evincar> Oh, yeah, that's from a friend of mine. :P
05:57:09 <AnMaster> morning
05:57:14 <evincar> Evening.
05:57:28 <Sgeo> Night
05:57:29 <AnMaster> heh not in Europe I guess
05:57:32 <AnMaster> and bbl, going to university →
05:57:39 <evincar> Laters.
05:57:43 <evincar> (And no.)
06:00:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:01:02 -!- augur has joined.
06:09:05 <evincar> Welp, there goes my interaction for the night.
06:09:09 -!- evincar has quit (Quit: Sleep.).
06:47:15 -!- FireFly has joined.
06:50:46 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:57:35 -!- tombom has joined.
07:48:44 -!- jcp has quit (Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router.).
07:50:39 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Leaving).
07:50:49 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:14:23 -!- adam_d has joined.
08:41:02 <augur> I recommend that everyone go watch this movie Following by Chris Nolan
08:54:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:54:51 -!- augur has joined.
08:57:49 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving).
09:04:59 -!- lament has quit (Quit: lament).
09:14:39 -!- aschueler has joined.
09:15:47 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
09:50:26 -!- Tritonio_GR has joined.
10:06:16 -!- ais523 has joined.
10:06:47 <AnMaster> hi
10:07:39 <AnMaster> current connection is ssh tunnel over unreliable university wlan, and there are microwave ovens near here, so if I don't reply suddenly you now know why.
10:08:34 <ais523> hmm, ok
10:08:41 <ais523> my connection is similar, except without the tunnel
10:11:12 <augur> you both have sucky connections it seems :(
11:03:00 -!- Mathnerd314_ has joined.
11:06:12 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
11:06:26 -!- Mathnerd314_ has changed nick to Mathnerd314.
11:33:48 -!- cheater2 has joined.
11:42:28 -!- cheater2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
12:14:00 -!- zdhwjcln has joined.
12:14:26 <zdhwjcln> Are there somebody?
12:14:52 -!- zdhwjcln has left (?).
12:20:55 -!- Asztal has joined.
12:23:02 <ais523> zdhwjcln: yes but you didn't stay long enough to find out
12:23:15 <ais523> also, that's a pretty dubious hostname (~Administr as the username, and an IP)
12:42:30 <ais523> <catamorphism> Yes... I turned on the radio this morning and heard something like, "A volcano has erupted in Iceland... but we can't tell you which one, since none of us American reporters would even dare to try to pronounce the name. Tweet us if you know how."
12:47:18 -!- oerjan has joined.
12:52:12 <ais523> alise for the logs: the iPhone developer contract is getting even crazier, see http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/04/with-new-developer-agreement-apple-unlevels-the-iad-playing-field/
12:52:41 <ais523> it looks like they've done enough stupid arbitrary restrictions on programmers for the time being, now they're going after marketers
12:53:30 <ais523> and managing to get rid of loads of useful information for programmers at the same time
13:03:10 -!- FireFly has joined.
13:04:58 -!- lereah_ has joined.
13:08:02 -!- cheater2 has joined.
13:37:45 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
13:50:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
14:28:17 -!- aschueler has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
14:30:30 -!- maedhros777 has joined.
14:30:52 <maedhros777> Does anyone know of a good Prelude compiler?
14:32:13 <Gregor> If there's not one linked on the wiki, then there's probably not one ... which means it's time for you to write one ... although prelude being semi-multithreaded would make that interesting ;)
14:32:38 <maedhros777> There is one on the wiki, but I don't think it works.
14:33:05 <maedhros777> I think I might write a Prelude to C compiler and then write a Fugue to Prelude compiler.
14:33:15 <maedhros777> And then put it on the wiki
14:33:20 <Gregor> Good, that means I don't have to.
14:33:24 <maedhros777> :)
14:33:38 <maedhros777> Does a period do anything in Prelude?
14:33:46 <ais523> I have a prelude to BF compiler somewhere, IIRC
14:33:55 <maedhros777> Really?
14:33:57 <maedhros777> Where?
14:33:58 <ais523> wait, no, other way round
14:34:01 <maedhros777> Darn
14:34:07 <maedhros777> I think i saw it on the wiki
14:34:16 <maedhros777> So does a period do anything?
14:34:34 <ais523> hmm, I have a Prelude interp, it seems
14:34:40 <maedhros777> Where?
14:34:53 <maedhros777> On the wiki?
14:35:01 <ais523> on my hard drive, but I could paste it as soon as I figure out how it works
14:35:14 <ais523> and it doesn't seem to do anything special in response to .
14:35:15 <maedhros777> How did you make it without knowing how it works?
14:35:19 <ais523> oh, I did once
14:35:23 <maedhros777> Ok
14:35:26 <ais523> but it's years old
14:35:34 <maedhros777> Could you put it on the wiki?
14:35:48 <ais523> $ ls -l prelude.c
14:35:49 <ais523> -rw-r--r-- 1 ais523 ais523 4309 2006-08-06 17:35 prelude.c
14:35:54 <ais523> wow, that's old
14:35:58 <maedhros777> :)
14:36:07 <maedhros777> Nice, you use Linux
14:36:18 <ais523> yep; unfortunately the code appears to be DOS-specific
14:36:24 <maedhros777> Too bad
14:36:34 <maedhros777> I guess I'll just write my own compiler.
14:36:37 <ais523> but luckily, I had a hint of cross-platform-ness back then and put the DOS stuff in #defines
14:36:51 <ais523> so it should be a one-line change to port
14:37:06 <maedhros777> Should I make it to C or to BrainF**k, do you think?
14:37:28 <ais523> if you're compiling, to C might be easier
14:37:39 <ais523> emulating the effective multiple tapes thing isn't that bad in BF, but it may take some thought
14:37:50 <maedhros777> Yeah, I guess so. Bye now, I'll put it on the wiki when I'm finished.
14:37:53 -!- maedhros777 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:38:16 <Gregor> Do people have something against staying on IRC...
14:38:19 <ais523> hmm, I was about to paste it as well
14:38:20 <ais523> http://www.pastebin.ca/1867807
14:39:10 <Gregor> lol
14:39:31 <ais523> oh, it's not only on the wiki already
14:39:37 <ais523> but someone ported it to POSIX
14:40:21 <ais523> what you really don't want to see is my Prelude to Fugue compiler
14:40:37 <ais523> because it was so specific to the specific system it was running on, I think it could only have run on that one computer
14:40:51 <ais523> it first worked out what the sequence of notes was (sane)
14:41:21 <ais523> then sent a sequence of keystrokes via the Windows SendKeys API to a proprietary MIDI editor which had its keyboard shortcuts set up to be able to receive them properly (insane)
14:41:54 -!- Asztal has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
14:43:45 -!- maedhros777 has joined.
14:44:16 <maedhros777> Wait, I just thought of something -- what do ^ and v do in Prelude, exactly? Because I don't get the wiki's explanation.
14:44:48 <ais523> maedhros777: why don't you stay in the channel, btw?
14:44:55 <maedhros777> Sure, ok
14:45:02 <ais523> we discovered that my compiler was the one that was already on the wiki just after you left
14:45:08 <ais523> except that on the wiki, it was ported to Linux#
14:45:14 <maedhros777> You mean the interpreter?
14:45:17 <ais523> err, yes
14:45:37 <maedhros777> Does it work? Because I tried the hello world example and it didn't do anything
14:45:39 <ais523> anyway, ^ and v basically peek the top of the next voice's stack
14:45:45 <ais523> and push onto the current stack
14:45:52 <ais523> also, what syntax did you use to run it
14:46:23 <ais523> it seems to take a file from the command line and output on stdout
14:46:34 <maedhros777> I compiled the interpreter, put it in my path, and did: $ prelude helloworld.txt
14:46:46 <maedhros777> Nothing happened
14:46:57 <maedhros777> Here's the hello world: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages#Prelude
14:47:03 <Gregor> Nothing happened = it hung, or it quit with no output
14:47:13 <maedhros777> Quit with no output
14:47:22 -!- Gregor-L has joined.
14:47:31 <ais523> I just ran that program through the interpreter and it worked fine
14:47:37 <ais523> however, it doesn't output a final newline
14:47:42 <ais523> so it's possible that your command prompt overwrote it
14:47:51 <maedhros777> Ok, let me try it again.
14:48:07 <maedhros777> I'll have to download the interpreter again, because I just deleted it :)
14:48:08 <ais523> try adding "; echo" to the end of the command line to add a newline
14:48:47 <maedhros777> Wait, yours is the C interpreter, right? Not the python one?
14:48:50 <ais523> yes
14:48:55 <maedhros777> ok, hang on
14:49:13 <ais523> I'm a Perl fan, it's pretty rare for me to write things in Python as a result ;)
14:49:16 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
14:49:18 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Changing host).
14:49:18 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
14:49:21 <Gregor-L> E_WORKSFORME
14:50:44 -!- Gregor-L has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, please visit www.perl.org - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
14:50:53 <maedhros777> Didn't work
14:51:11 <Gregor-L> E_YOUFAILATC :P
14:51:17 <maedhros777> This is the code you're using, right?
14:51:21 <maedhros777> ...8+.!v...4+.1+!..v!..vvv...4+.!vvv.....9+.3-!###!..v6-!..vv..v
14:51:23 <maedhros777> 9+(1-)^#7+(1-)..^7+!^3+!##8+(1-)^###9+1+(1-)..^^^^^3+!..^8-!#1+!
14:53:27 <maedhros777> Right?
14:53:57 <maedhros777> I was kind of confused about all the periods
14:56:32 <Gregor-L> Presumably nops.
14:56:41 <Gregor-L> To synchronize "timing", you have to waste time.
14:56:56 <maedhros777> Oh, I get it
14:57:05 <maedhros777> So was that the program you were running?
14:57:12 <Gregor-L> Yeah
14:57:20 <maedhros777> That's strange
14:58:00 <maedhros777> And this is the interpreter you're using, right? http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/prelude/impl/prelude.c
14:58:04 <ais523> yes
14:58:14 <ais523> just downloaded, compiled and ran it
14:58:23 <maedhros777> Then what could I be doing wrong?
14:58:48 <ais523> my guess is the problem's with I/O somehow
14:58:55 <maedhros777> I guess
14:58:58 <ais523> either providing the wrong input, or looking in the wrong place for the output
14:59:08 <maedhros777> Hang on, I'll look at the interpreter
15:00:32 <ais523> on another topic, I finally discovered the solution to something that had been bothering me for days: http://www.astucia.co.uk/products/product-details?categoryid=176910&productid=179235&class=product
15:00:51 <ais523> I was walking for miles down a cycle path and wondering wtf those things were (it was daytime)
15:00:57 <maedhros777> :)
15:01:17 <ais523> but luckily some of them were unworn enough to have readable brand names on, and I traced them via the company that made them
15:01:38 <ais523> (you don't know how hard it is to make out the word "Astucia" when it's mostly covered by dirt and worn in places...)
15:04:22 <Gregor-L> ais523: Does interstack communication create a race condition in Prelude, or is there a guaranteed order of evaluation between the voices?
15:04:35 <maedhros777> So what are cv, nv, sp, c, and f?
15:04:48 <ais523> Gregor-L: I don't see any evidence that it isn't a race condition; that hello world is designed to avoid races with appropriate NOPing
15:04:50 <maedhros777> I can't really tell without enough description in the variable names
15:05:17 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: You don't find those variable names helpful and self-explanatory? :P
15:05:19 <ais523> current voice, number of voices for the first two
15:05:41 <maedhros777> Oh, okay. I'll go replace the variable names :)
15:05:44 <ais523> sp seems to be the instruction pointer
15:06:06 <ais523> c seems to just be a generic temporary
15:06:14 <maedhros777> Okay
15:06:21 <ais523> and f's a flag used for breaking out of loops
15:07:09 <ais523> hmm, kind of ridiculous that I can refigure out what this code does so quickly after not seeing it for three years
15:07:26 <maedhros777> And what does kp stand for?
15:08:03 <ais523> must be the stack pointer
15:08:11 <Gregor-L> stacK Pointer
15:08:12 <ais523> well, the array of stack pointers
15:08:22 <Gregor-L> ais523 doesn't quite ... "get" initialisms.
15:08:22 <maedhros777> Ok
15:08:23 <ais523> still, I have no clue why the IP is called sp
15:08:33 <ais523> Gregor-L: s/doesn't/didn't/
15:08:38 <Gregor-L> lawl
15:08:49 <ais523> there's no evidence as to whether I get them or not atm
15:09:24 <ais523> oh, I've also noticed that that program only has one way to exit, and it's always with status code EXIT_FAILURE
15:09:28 <ais523> which is... slightly bizarre
15:09:36 <maedhros777> =D
15:10:02 <ais523> (not counting command line arg problems, which /also/ exit with EXIT_FAILURE)
15:10:26 <Gregor-L> It's just scolding you for using esolangs.
15:10:38 <Gregor-L> Even if it works, running it is still FAILURE.
15:10:48 <ais523> at least I can guess why the static arrays are 10 by 6553; it must be to prevent exceeding the maximum static array size limit in DOS
15:10:59 <ais523> nah, it's scolding you for not writing infinite loops
15:11:11 <ais523> int kp[10]={0}; /* stack pointers. Points to TOS. */
15:11:18 <ais523> hmm, there's actually a comment saying what kp does
15:11:31 <Gregor-L> stacK Pointers
15:12:06 <ais523> at least the code doesn't randomly break with 32-bit ints
15:12:15 -!- songhead95 has joined.
15:12:21 <ais523> (up until around 4 or 5 years ago, I used to write all my code assuming int was 16 bits)
15:12:28 <maedhros777> Wow
15:12:28 <ais523> (apart from when it really had to use the win32 API)
15:12:29 <Gregor-L> Wow
15:12:32 <maedhros777> Fail
15:12:40 <Gregor-L> ais523: Welcome to the 21st century :P
15:12:45 <ais523> thanks
15:13:12 <Deewiant> What changed around 4 or 5 years ago?
15:13:22 <Gregor-L> Deewiant: He installed Windows 95
15:13:24 <ais523> moved to Linux
15:13:31 <ais523> Gregor-L: nah, this was even on Windows XP
15:13:43 <ais523> actually, to UNIX first, then Linux
15:13:47 <maedhros777> Long live Linux
15:13:57 <maedhros777> What distro do you run?
15:14:08 <Gregor-L> OH GOD NO I see distro wars ahead *sobs*
15:14:12 <ais523> Gregor-L: I got really disappointed that the deprecated API for working the PC speaker directly was removed in Windows XP, I used to have fun with that one
15:14:21 <maedhros777> Nah, I don't care much about different distros
15:14:25 <fizzie> ais523: And that drove you to Linux?
15:14:32 <Gregor-L> fizzie: X-D
15:14:42 <ais523> maedhros777: originally, Ubuntu because it was preinstalled, then Ubuntu again because I had to replace my laptop in a hurry and didn't want too radical a change while I was in the middle of something else
15:14:52 <maedhros777> Yeah, I use Ubuntu too
15:14:55 <ais523> fizzie: that, and the random 20-second pauses whenever you tried to load a MIDI file
15:15:08 <maedhros777> OpenSUSE looks pretty good though, I might try it sometime
15:15:22 <ais523> in the end, my games just spent 5 or 6 minutes at the start loading all the MIDI files so it could play them immediately
15:15:38 -!- deschutron has joined.
15:15:51 <fizzie> Our workstations here at work used to run OpenSUSE, but they went Ubuntu recently-ish; not many years ago.
15:15:52 <Gregor-L> Sidux blar blar
15:15:52 <ais523> (the strange thing is, this bug affected Microsoft's own media player too, although for some reason there, it happened the second time the file was loaded, rather than the first)
15:16:02 <Gregor-L> Nowait
15:16:04 <Gregor-L> LFS blar blar
15:16:09 <Gregor-L> All other distros are for pussies.
15:16:29 <maedhros777> =D
15:17:46 <fizzie> Some of these cluster nodes here run CentOS, I think.
15:18:16 <Gregor-L> CentOS is amusing. <RedHat> Getting some money now and then would be nice ... <CentOS> NO.
15:18:18 <ais523> the desktop in my office triple-boots CentOS, CentOS, and Windows 7
15:18:23 -!- lereah_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
15:18:32 <ais523> Gregor-L: yet Red Hat are still pretty profitable
15:18:36 <maedhros777> Triple boot?
15:18:36 <ais523> somehow
15:18:38 <maedhros777> Wow
15:18:44 <Gregor-L> ais523: Yeah, I don't get it :P
15:18:47 <maedhros777> I double boot XP and Ubuntu
15:18:50 <Gregor-L> All my computers single-boot sidux :P
15:18:53 <ais523> I have yet to figure out why there are two CentOS boots on there
15:19:03 <maedhros777> I never use XP, though
15:19:17 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: SO LONG AS IT IS INSTALLED IT WILL BE YOUR SHAME
15:19:22 <maedhros777> True
15:19:36 <maedhros777> I'll be getting a new laptop soon, though
15:19:45 <maedhros777> I'll try to get a Windows refund
15:19:51 <Gregor-L> <maedhros777> And it'll double-boot Windows 7 and Ubuntu.
15:19:52 <ais523> I have win7 installed, partly for the purpose of obeying the letter of various contracts
15:19:52 <Gregor-L> :P
15:19:53 <maedhros777> And i'll probably fail
15:20:06 <maedhros777> Down with the Windows tax!
15:20:13 <maedhros777> We should have a tea party
15:20:19 <ais523> heh, the box this computer came in basically had a sticker on saying "by opening this box you accept that you can't get a Windows refund even though the EULA inside says otherwise"
15:20:35 <fizzie> And that neighbour cluster runs Rocks, it seems.
15:21:36 <fizzie> There's an amusing joke about dual-booting in a Finnish parody site, but unfortunately it's in Finnish only.
15:21:53 <ais523> fizzie: as in, doesn't work when translated?
15:22:01 <maedhros777> Isn't MS generally required to give a refund?
15:22:05 <ais523> "this sentence is difficult to translate into French"
15:22:22 <Gregor-L> `translateto fr this sentence is difficult to translate into French
15:22:32 <HackEgo> cette phrase est difficile ŕ traduire en français
15:22:49 <ais523> maedhros777: no, MS's EULA says that the hardware company has to give you a refund, and doesn't refund the price of Windows to the hardware company itself
15:23:07 <ais523> and it's part of their own contracts with the hardware companies that the hardware companies have to put up with this
15:23:14 <maedhros777> Darn
15:23:15 <fizzie> ais523: As in, I don't have time to translate ans wouldn't probably generate very good prose anyway. The gist of it is that it's a parody of a column in a computing magazine, and the guy's recounting his experiences on installing Linux on a computer that currently "dual-boots MacOS and Netware 5 simultaneously".
15:23:31 <maedhros777> So I could get a refund, but it would benefit MS?
15:23:34 <ais523> so dodging the Microsoft tax unfortunately doesn't hurt Microsoft, just the hardware manufacturer
15:23:49 <maedhros777> Wow
15:23:51 <ais523> maedhros777: you could /maybe/ get a refund; the majority of companies eventually pay persistent people to go away
15:24:07 <ais523> because it costs them less money than actually trying to handle the whole legally dubious issue
15:24:09 <maedhros777> Yeah, but a Windows OS is like $200
15:24:13 <ais523> no, it isn't
15:24:18 <maedhros777> What is it, then?
15:24:21 <ais523> that's how much it costs to buy in the shop
15:24:25 <ais523> the price preinstalled is much lower
15:24:33 <maedhros777> Like what?
15:24:47 <songhead95> what window manager do you prefer?
15:24:57 <Gregor-L> songhead95: X11 is for the weak.
15:25:14 <fizzie> After the distro wars: window management wars!
15:25:20 <maedhros777> Wow
15:25:23 <maedhros777> :)
15:25:24 <ais523> maedhros777: just looking around online, it seems that the OEM price - that's the price that you could get buying in bulk as a small computer manufacturer - tends to be about half the price of buying in the shops
15:25:26 <fizzie> Awesome for me, even with the Lua bad-smell.
15:25:39 <Gregor-L> ais523: That's still $100 *shrugs*
15:25:41 <songhead95> an esoteric wm would be awsome
15:25:43 <maedhros777> Yeah
15:25:55 <maedhros777> Does Apple give refunds?
15:25:58 <ais523> the values for large manufacturers buying in bulk tend to be lower still
15:26:01 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: Haw
15:26:13 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: Apple barely acknowledges that Mac OS X isn't burnt into ROM.
15:26:20 <maedhros777> :)
15:26:38 <ais523> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund is a list of the actual amounts that people were refunded when they actually tried and succeeded
15:29:25 <maedhros777> I guess MS just gets tired of arguing
15:29:51 <songhead95> I hope apple will follow that example
15:30:17 <ais523> well, in pretty much all minor lawsuits, there comes a point where it's cheaper just to give in and pay a trivial amount of money for the other side to go away
15:30:23 <maedhros777> Yeah
15:30:24 <ais523> which is normally just before the lawyers get involved
15:30:50 <maedhros777> They should really be less monopolistic
15:30:58 <maedhros777> If only
15:31:00 <ais523> as for window managers, I'm using Compiz at the moment
15:31:08 <maedhros777> Same
15:31:26 <ais523> although I use xmonad from time to time, I haven't yet figured out how to get it to work with sound and networking, both of which are a little important
15:31:28 <maedhros777> But i use Metacity for Blender, it doesn't work with Compiz
15:31:30 <songhead95> most people would say it's just good fair in the business world
15:32:02 <ais523> (for some reason, the way Ubuntu sets up startup things, which WM you use somehow affects networking and audio, probably because it's different between KDE and Gnome so xmonad gets nothing)
15:33:47 <maedhros777> Is it just me, or in the Prelude interpreter, does sp remain 0 for most of the program, when it's used?
15:34:03 <maedhros777> Ever since line 83
15:35:16 <maedhros777> Oh wait, never mind
15:35:23 <maedhros777> It changes at 180
15:35:35 <ais523> the instruction pointer rarely changes value in an interp
15:35:50 <fizzie> I was under the impression that large corporations have teams of lawyers on retainer-sort of deals all the time anyway, and can use them to bully little people if they're not doing anything more important at the moment.
15:35:53 <ais523> normally, it increments once each time round the main loop, and sometimes jumps up or down if you find a loop
15:36:11 <ais523> fizzie: but their travel costs to small claims court would be too expensive
15:36:14 <maedhros777> Yeah, I'm getting sick of these corporations
15:36:28 <maedhros777> How about we start a tea party? :)
15:37:50 <maedhros777> Destroy all the Windows boxes
15:37:56 <maedhros777> And throw them in the Boston harbor
15:38:20 <maedhros777> Then declare ourselves an independent country
15:38:36 <fizzie> One microsoft lawyer estimated (in a bar over beers, unofficially, to a visiting lecturer) that they spent around a megadollar on lawyer expenses for the EU part of the Oracle-Sun deal, even though it didn't directly concern them.
15:38:37 <ais523> hmm, the problem would be with trying to get rid of a particular magnetic pattern on the hard drive, and throwing that into the harbor
15:38:39 <ais523> nothing wrong with the computer
15:38:55 <maedhros777> True
15:39:07 <maedhros777> Then we can just destroy the software.
15:39:14 <ais523> and Windows is beginning to reach the stage of not being that bad
15:39:16 <maedhros777> Infiltrate it with viruses.
15:39:26 <maedhros777> Not that bad? Are you serious?
15:39:48 <ais523> maedhros777: it's been stealing a whole load of good ideas from other OSes, and maybe even having a few of its own
15:39:54 <ais523> it's certainly /usable/, just frustrating
15:40:06 <maedhros777> Yeah, i'll admit it's usable
15:40:13 <maedhros777> But definitely frustrating
15:40:18 <Gregor-L> It's also stole good ideas from Windows 1 and advertized them to no end as if they're new :P
15:40:33 <maedhros777> And I'd rather not have MS benefit.
15:40:37 <ais523> Gregor-L: seriously? Windows 1 hardly had any features at all
15:40:58 <Gregor-L> ais523: "Snap" is effectively the ONLY window layout of Windows 1, and now it's a feature ;)
15:41:16 <maedhros777> The lady in the commercial just annoys me
15:41:17 <ais523> ah, aha
15:41:30 <maedhros777> "Windows 7 was my idea!" What nonsense.
15:41:31 <Gregor-L> (Also, "snap" already had a meaning in all other windowing systems, and they decided to take it for something else because they're douchebags)
15:41:38 <maedhros777> Linux is truly the people's idea.
15:41:46 <Gregor-L> The People's idea.
15:41:55 <Gregor-L> The People's Republic of Idea.
15:42:00 <Gregor-L> COMMUNISM
15:42:04 <ais523> one interesting thing to notice, btw, is that both the Microsoft and Apple commercials try to make the decision "Mac vs. PC" rather than "OS X vs. Windows"
15:42:07 <pineapple> windows 7: mouse gestures to give you what keyboard shortcuts could give you anyway
15:42:26 <Gregor-L> ais523: Yes, both of them want to choke out other options, just like the Democratic and Republican parties.
15:42:26 <maedhros777> Yeah
15:42:27 <ais523> which is, I suppose, a good way to confuse people into not realizing Linux exists
15:42:37 <ais523> or, well, OpenSolaris or the BSDs
15:42:39 <ais523> or even FreeDOS
15:42:42 <maedhros777> Wow, you sound like you have my politics, Gregor
15:42:58 <ais523> Gregor-L: the UK politics situation has become really confusing
15:43:00 <Gregor-L> My politics are "I fucking hate politics" :P
15:43:20 <ais523> there was a big televised debate on Thursday, and the Liberal Democrats somehow managed to win it by all sensible measures, shocking everyone
15:43:25 <maedhros777> I'm a self-titled anarcho-syndicalist =D
15:43:49 <maedhros777> Similar to democratic socialism
15:44:01 <ais523> they're currently within-statistical-noise of the Conservatives at the top of the polls, with Labour in third, which is also rather unexpected
15:44:10 <maedhros777> So you guys are in the UK?
15:44:14 <ais523> although, the voting system means that they don't have much of a chance
15:44:16 <Gregor-L> ais523 is.
15:44:19 <ais523> maedhros777: I'm in the UK; I think Gregor-L is American
15:44:22 <maedhros777> Ok
15:44:40 <Gregor-L> Amerk'n
15:44:50 <ais523> !help
15:44:51 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
15:44:55 <maedhros777> Gregor-L, whom do you vote for?
15:45:05 <ais523> !bf_txtgen Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down
15:45:08 <maedhros777> If you don't like the Republicrats
15:45:11 <maedhros777> Nader?
15:45:11 <EgoBot> 481 ++++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++>+++++++++>+++<<<<-]>>++++++.>-------.+++++++++++++++++.<+++++++++++++++++++++++.>----.>----.<<++.++++++++.-.>----.<<+++++++++++++.>>>.<-------.++.+++++++++++++.<<++++.>>>.<+++.<+.>----.>.<.<+.>>++++++++++++.------------.<<--.---------.>+.<.>----.>.<<<++.>>---.<<+++++++..>----.-----------------------------------------------------------------.<--.-------.>>+++++.<.>+++++.----------.++++++.<.<-.+++++++++++.++++++++.-------
15:45:12 <ais523> sorry, this is needed to settle an argument in another channel
15:45:18 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: Given that the two parties are the only ones that have non-zero chance of winning at the national scale, I vote democrat.
15:45:27 <Gregor-L> Usually
15:45:30 <Gregor-L> At the local level it varies.
15:45:40 <maedhros777> Yeah
15:45:55 <maedhros777> I do hate the Republicrats, though
15:45:56 <Gregor-L> In one election I voted for a republic, a democrat, a green, a libertarian and an independent all on one ballot :P
15:46:01 <maedhros777> Wow
15:46:01 <Gregor-L> *republican
15:46:17 <maedhros777> You voted for a republican??!!!
15:46:18 <ais523> technically speaking, isn't the US both a republic and a democracy?
15:46:21 -!- songhead95 has quit (Quit: songhead95).
15:46:22 <Gregor-L> They were each the best and most qualified for the respective roles *shrugs*
15:46:28 <maedhros777> Wow
15:46:40 <maedhros777> Well, I guess the Dems aren't much better
15:46:41 <Gregor-L> ais523: It's a democratic republic and/or representative republic.
15:46:45 <ais523> maedhros777: from an external point of view, the democrats and republicans are so similar that it makes more sense to vote for the sanest person than for the party
15:46:55 <maedhros777> Exactly, I agree
15:47:12 <maedhros777> Just that if i had to vote for a Republicrat, it would be a Dem
15:47:15 <maedhros777> Probably
15:47:23 <Gregor-L> BTW, I'm an Oregonian ... we're even weirder out there :P
15:47:28 <maedhros777> :)
15:47:39 <maedhros777> Strange word, Oregonian
15:47:41 <Gregor-L> It's one of the few states where Greens actually win positions occasional.
15:47:44 <Gregor-L> *occasionally
15:47:51 <Gregor-L> Gawd, these fekking wrist splints are making me mistype
15:47:58 <maedhros777> But I'm a massachussettsian =D
15:48:05 <maedhros777> If that's what the name is
15:48:19 <Gregor-L> Presently I'm in Indiana *bleh*
15:51:52 <ais523> well, you aren't (yet) grounded by an Icelandic ash cloud
15:52:05 <ais523> although, really people need to stop relying on air travel so much
15:52:19 <maedhros777> This is strange -- when I change the interpreter to print the number of voices, it says there are 4
15:52:27 <maedhros777> Shouldn't it be 2?
15:52:49 <ais523> maedhros777: aha, maybe somehow newlines have been doubled in your input file
15:52:55 <ais523> or there are trailing newlines, or something like that
15:53:02 <maedhros777> Perhaps, let me check
15:53:25 -!- songhead95_ has joined.
15:53:27 <maedhros777> How would I change that?
15:53:42 <maedhros777> I'm using gedit, does it do anything strange with newlines?
15:54:30 -!- songhead95___ has joined.
15:54:31 -!- songhead95_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:55:17 <songhead95___> Hi I'm a mac booting debian, and in the other room is a pc running freebsd
15:55:52 <songhead95___> and in my hand is an ipod ssh-ing into the pc, because you can do that with a jailbreak
15:55:57 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: $ file helloworld.txt
15:56:08 -!- songhead95___ has quit (Client Quit).
15:56:24 <maedhros777> prelude.txt: ASCII text
15:56:31 <maedhros777> Oh yeah, I renamed it prelude.txt
15:57:04 <ais523> strange, file normally says what sort of file terminators it has
15:59:11 <maedhros777> When i do "cat prelude.txt", it just shows two lines
16:01:13 <ais523> maedhros777: if there are carriage-returns in there, they won't be visible
16:01:16 <ais523> try cat -v prelude.txt
16:01:29 <maedhros777> Still two lines
16:01:48 <ais523> any ^M written at the ends of them?
16:01:59 <maedhros777> No
16:02:36 * Gregor-L reappears.
16:02:53 <Gregor-L> Well that's fuckular.
16:03:01 <Gregor-L> I got nothin'
16:03:45 <maedhros777> Hang on, let me try using ftell() in the interpreter when it encounters a newline.
16:06:13 <maedhros777> Oh wait, it works now
16:06:28 <maedhros777> Turns out there were 2 newlines at the end of the file
16:06:54 <maedhros777> Now to write a Fugue to Prelude compiler!
16:07:54 <Gregor-L> Schweet. Have fun with MIDI :P
16:08:11 <maedhros777> Only problem will be that Fugue allows more than just 0..9
16:08:48 <maedhros777> I'll have to alter the interpreter a bit, or just directly interpret Fugue using the interpreter code
16:10:07 <maedhros777> If you listen to the Fugue Hello World (http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages#Fugue) it sounds horrible =D
16:11:35 <Gregor-L> Are you a musician?
16:11:44 <maedhros777> Yeah
16:11:58 <maedhros777> Why?
16:12:02 <Gregor-L> Well then it seems to me like it's up to you to improve upon it :P
16:12:11 <ais523> maedhros777: it was autogenerated
16:12:16 <maedhros777> Oh, okay
16:12:20 <ais523> I actually find autogenerated Fugue music kind-of beautiful
16:12:24 <maedhros777> Wow
16:12:24 -!- kar8nga has joined.
16:12:34 <ais523> because the program has some sort of a purpose behind it, it's not the normal computer's autogenerated ramblings
16:12:39 <ais523> it grows on you after a while
16:12:48 <maedhros777> What would be awesome would be if an existing piece compiled in Fugue :)
16:13:01 <maedhros777> Well, I mean that it did something
16:13:04 <ais523> (meanwhile, I've been looking at <http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2257>; just how /do/ you pronounce Eyjafjallajökull, anyway?)
16:13:40 <ais523> they actually interviewed a bunch of icelanders, and they all gave different pronunciations
16:16:38 <ais523> some day I want to compile Lost Kingdoms to Fugue
16:16:44 <ais523> I wonder how long the resulting tune would be?
16:16:54 <ais523> I probably need to learn the MIDI file format first, though, so I can generate it directly
16:17:17 <Gregor-L> ais523: http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/MidiComp Use this intermediary format instead.
16:17:53 <ais523> ugh, web's being unreliable again
16:18:01 <ais523> it's not a DNS problem or proxy problem
16:18:14 <ais523> because there's no proxy (that I know of), and I'm using level3's DNS
16:18:24 -!- maedhros777 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
16:18:29 <Gregor-L> midicomp is a MIDI-to-ASCII-to-MIDI convertor that uses an ASCII format very related to MIDI, but without fekking around with MIDI bignums and the like.
16:18:29 <ais523> and it works or doesn't work randomly when I try to load the page
16:18:52 <Gregor-L> I use it whenever I have to write programs that fekk with MIDIs :P
16:19:41 <ais523> hmm, I'll just use CPAN
16:27:40 -!- Asztal has joined.
16:33:19 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
16:38:52 -!- Tritonio_GR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:39:24 -!- lament has joined.
16:45:04 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, MIDI bignums?
16:45:05 <AnMaster> what?
16:45:20 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: MIDI files use a bignum format.
16:45:33 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, heh, as scaled integer or what
16:45:35 <AnMaster> ?
16:45:59 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: One bit of each byte is used to indicate whether the next byte is part of the bignum. The rest are used as part of the number.
16:46:14 <Gregor-L> It's used for ... everything.
16:46:24 -!- lament has quit (Quit: lament).
16:47:24 <ais523> Gregor-L: hmm, like UTF-9?
16:47:38 <Gregor-L> Never 'eard of UTF ... 9 ...
16:47:56 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, sure, but consider the length of a note for example. How is that encoded? An _integer_ wouldn't work unless you could do a _scaled_ integer or a ratio between two or such
16:48:16 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: It's an integer number of ticks.
16:48:24 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: You have to choose your ticks wisely so that you can encode all notes you need.
16:48:30 <AnMaster> hah
16:48:38 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, and how is the tick encoded?
16:48:50 <Gregor-L> Ticks per beat, an integer.
16:48:58 <AnMaster> right
16:49:05 <Gregor-L> And beats are in something like microseconds per beat.
16:49:16 <Gregor-L> Erm, tempo is, that is.
16:49:32 <AnMaster> yeah I was trying to figure out how that recursive definition worked ;P
16:50:17 <Gregor-L> Sadly, most systems that write MIDIs use a fixed, and often bad, tick length.
16:50:21 <Gregor-L> Erm
16:50:25 <Gregor-L> Ticks/beat rather
16:50:29 -!- Asztal has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
16:50:38 <Gregor-L> 1024 is a popular (and inexcusably flawed) choice.
16:51:00 <Gregor-L> It should be a large power of 2 times as many primes as you can reasonably get.
16:51:13 <Gregor-L> e.g. 256*3*5*7*11
16:51:22 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, what a about rosegarden?
16:51:30 * Gregor-L checks
16:51:57 <Gregor-L> It uses 480
16:52:01 <Gregor-L> Which is a decent one.
16:52:02 <pineapple> Gregor-L: i thought it was 960, not 1024
16:52:27 <ais523> the Perl libraries default to 96, unless you really happen to need a different division
16:52:32 <pineapple> i've seen 960 used by something, but i forget what
16:52:32 <Gregor-L> pineapple: 960 is the less-popular, non-flawed choice.
16:52:44 <Gregor-L> 96 doesn't allow for proper 5-tuplets.
16:52:44 -!- Asztal has joined.
16:52:47 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, 480 is less detailed than 1024?
16:53:00 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: 1024 doesn't allow for proper 3- or 5-tuplets.
16:53:17 <Gregor-L> It needs to be a power of many 2s, and as many primes as possible to allow for tuplets.
16:53:24 <pineapple> 840?
16:53:32 <Gregor-L> Since 7-tuplets and higher are rare, multiples of 7 are generally reserved for Chopin :P
16:53:32 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, true. So what about 8192*3*5*7*13 or such?
16:53:37 <pineapple> seems to be the best i can come up with
16:53:50 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: If you get too high, you're liable to make beat counts be enormous :P
16:54:00 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, heh
16:54:06 <pineapple> AnMaster: i think the format is limited to 1024
16:54:16 <ais523> it should be the number with the most factors less than 16384
16:54:17 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, IMO rosegaden should check how much it needs when exporting to midi
16:54:28 <AnMaster> pineapple, that would be stupid
16:54:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:54:43 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: It might, I just checked an example file *shrugs*
16:55:00 <Gregor-L> pineapple: The format isn't limited IIRC, although it's quite possible that many /players/ are limited.
16:55:01 <pineapple> although i might be wrong about the limit
16:55:34 <pineapple> well... 3.5.7 = 105; i'd be tempted to add another 3 in that before adding an 11
16:55:52 <Gregor-L> pineapple: WOULDJA LIKE SOME 2S
16:55:53 <Gregor-L> :P
16:56:02 <pineapple> Gregor-L: i'm adding the 2s on afterwards
16:56:17 <Gregor-L> I'd say 128ths are more common than 9-tuplets.
16:56:19 <pineapple> work out how many i have "room" for
16:56:56 <pineapple> 20160 ?
16:57:06 <pineapple>
16:59:34 <fizzie> I've done a reasonable bit of manual MIDI file handling for a former jobplace; it's certainly a bit crafty format. The time division field is either 15-bit "ticks per beat" thing, or some sort of SMPTE time-code based frames-per-second value (7 bits for fps, 8 for ticks/frame).
16:59:50 -!- Asztal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
17:02:26 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, I demand 127-tuplets!
17:02:40 <AnMaster> in your next piece ;P
17:02:51 <AnMaster> I have no clue how it would sound
17:03:18 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, btw what about midi as in the hardware protocol thingy, does it use such a tick too?
17:04:19 <Gregor-L> I don't know.
17:04:22 <Gregor-L> I only know the file format.
17:05:16 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net).
17:05:56 -!- Asztal has joined.
17:06:20 -!- maedhros777 has joined.
17:06:38 <maedhros777> Sorry, I lost my internet connection
17:09:37 <maedhros777> So does anyone know of an MIDI library or where the specification is?
17:09:50 <Gregor-L> `google midi file format
17:09:54 <maedhros777> ok
17:09:55 <HackEgo> The standard MIDI file format is a very strange beast. When viewed as a whole, it can be quite overwhelming. Of course, no matter how you look at it, ... \ faydoc.tripod.com/formats/mid.htm - [13]Cached - [14]Similar
17:10:18 <Gregor-L> midicomp is a MIDI-to-ASCII-to-MIDI convertor if you want to make your life easier but have another intermediary.
17:10:31 <maedhros777> Wow, I googled it and i got that exact site :)
17:10:49 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: How unsurprising what with `google being a script that googles :P
17:11:01 <maedhros777> Yeah, this is a strange format
17:12:15 <maedhros777> Oh yeah -- I don't know if any of you are musicians, but are accidentals allowed in Fugue, or a key other than C major?
17:12:47 <Gregor-L> The spec makes that utterly unclear.
17:12:56 <Gregor-L> I would say, since it's interval-based, assume the first note is the root.
17:13:04 <Gregor-L> (Which is horribly broken, but ignore that :P )
17:13:19 <Gregor-L> Treat diminshed and augmented intervals as if they were the natural interval.
17:13:23 <maedhros777> Well, I guess that just gives you C major, A minor, and all the strange modes out there
17:13:40 <maedhros777> I do like Phrygian though
17:14:17 <Gregor-L> maedhros777: I recall this spec being quite useful: http://www.sonicspot.com/guide/midifiles.html
17:14:31 <maedhros777> Ok, thanks
17:15:35 <maedhros777> So, if i take forever, I could write a 2-hour composition in E phrygian that does a text adventure game when run =D
17:15:40 <maedhros777> That would be so awesome
17:15:46 <Gregor-L> ... yes :P
17:15:55 <Gregor-L> But not if I do it first.
17:15:58 <Gregor-L> (Which I won't)
17:15:58 <maedhros777> I take it you're a musician?
17:16:08 <Gregor-L> http://codu.org/music/
17:16:20 <maedhros777> You have a website?
17:16:34 <Gregor-L> ... no, I was just linking some totally random site</sarcasm>
17:16:59 <maedhros777> Wow, you're a good pianist
17:17:17 <Gregor-L> Okidokie.
17:17:27 <maedhros777> Did you write all these, or just some?
17:17:47 <Gregor-L> Everything on that page was written by me.
17:17:52 <maedhros777> Sweet
17:17:58 <maedhros777> What are your influences?
17:18:37 <maedhros777> http://codu.org/hats.php Nice hats :)
17:18:46 <Gregor-L> My favorite composer is Borodn, I like all the other Romantic-era Russian composers, also Chopin ... I also like to think there's a tiny tidbit of jazz in there, though not much.
17:19:06 <maedhros777> Yeah, I like Chopin
17:19:34 <maedhros777> My favorites are Baroque,like Bach and Vivaldi, and some Romantic like Mendelssohn and Paganini
17:19:48 <Gregor-L> http://aforteforpiano.wordpress.com/ I was working on Chopin's third nocturne from Op. 9 until I just recently got my hands put in wrist splints as punishment for working on Chopin's third nocturne from Op. 9 ...
17:19:56 <maedhros777> I play guitar, right now I'm trying to learn Paganini's 24 caprice
17:20:00 <maedhros777> It's wicked hard
17:20:13 <maedhros777> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6XJkRBPSQc
17:20:46 <Gregor-L> Guitar in a classical context doesn't get the respect it deserves.
17:20:50 -!- adam_d has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
17:20:51 <maedhros777> Yeah
17:21:01 <maedhros777> I play guitar and piano
17:21:06 <Gregor-L> Meanwhile, the piano gets tossed in over music that predates the instrument :P
17:21:14 <maedhros777> Yeah
17:21:24 <maedhros777> Bach used the harpischord
17:21:30 <maedhros777> It sounded pretty good
17:21:47 <Gregor-L> I've got a sweet digital piano with a really nice harpsichord sound, I like to use it when I play Bach.
17:21:52 <maedhros777> Nice
17:22:30 <maedhros777> I know a really good pianist who can play Mendelssohn's fantasy in F# minor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODorVTR7p4w)
17:22:33 <maedhros777> It's insane
17:23:05 <maedhros777> His fingers move at like a billion mph
17:24:08 <Gregor-L> Y'know, I think raw velocity isn't quite the right measurement for such things :P
17:24:15 <maedhros777> =D
17:24:40 <maedhros777> Well, there isn't really a unit of measurement for finger speed on piano
17:25:06 <Gregor-L> Sure there is ... the scale goes from "first grader who just started Piano lessons" to "Rachmanninov"
17:25:29 <maedhros777> :)
17:25:42 <Gregor-L> That's also a hand-size scale, btw.
17:25:48 <maedhros777> I'm not great at piano, right now I just play a bit of Beethoven
17:26:03 <maedhros777> And some jazz stuff
17:26:45 <maedhros777> So on choosemyhat.com, do you actually wear those hats wherever you go?
17:26:49 <Gregor-L> Yup
17:27:04 <Gregor-L> I'm wearing a pakul even as we speak.
17:27:10 <maedhros777> Sweet
17:27:33 <maedhros777> I vote for the Scottish hat tomorrow
17:27:53 <maedhros777> Only one vote though, too bad
17:28:03 <maedhros777> Looks pretty awesome :)
17:28:19 <maedhros777> You should get a Viking helmet.
17:29:28 <Gregor-L> I have two Scottish hats :P
17:29:34 <Gregor-L> Also, I try to keep my hats JUST south of insane.
17:29:43 <maedhros777> Darn :)
17:29:55 <maedhros777> The scottish hat looks pretty good, though
17:30:23 <Gregor-L> I still have two Scottish hats :P
17:30:25 <maedhros777> So can the same IP vote for different days?
17:30:35 <Gregor-L> Yes.
17:30:38 <Gregor-L> But only one per day.
17:30:42 <maedhros777> I'll do that
17:31:20 <maedhros777> I voted for the pirate hat on Wednesday
17:32:55 <Gregor-L> I don't own a pirate hat, but I appreciate your vote for my extremely-patriotic American-style tricorn.
17:33:11 <maedhros777> :)
17:34:06 <maedhros777> It's funny how myths about pirates spring up, real pirates live in Somalia and wouldn't say "arr", they'd just shoot you with an m16
17:35:29 <Gregor-L> And if they'd get the hell out of there, the government could fix itself and I could finally buy the domain name which is my greatest dream: libc.so
17:35:56 <maedhros777> Why do you want that?
17:36:12 <Gregor-L> ... because it's libc.so!
17:36:17 <maedhros777> Ok
17:36:30 <maedhros777> http://codu.org/colormatch/ Pretty interesting
17:36:38 <Gregor-L> I don't even know what I'd use it for, probably just forward it to the GNU libc page ;P
17:38:25 -!- tombom has joined.
17:38:45 <maedhros777> Wow, you have a lot of results
17:40:19 <maedhros777> http://codu.org/colormatch/q/index.php This is pretty accurate
17:40:32 <maedhros777> I'm saying yes to a lot of them
17:42:36 <maedhros777> Wow, did you write Plof by yourself?
17:44:09 <maedhros777> It looks interesting, extremely flexible
17:46:17 <Gregor-L> Today, a tour of Gregor Richards Technologies :P
17:46:30 -!- deschutron has left (?).
17:46:36 <maedhros777> Yep
17:46:37 <Gregor-L> Some of the standard library was written by pikhq, the interpreter, spec and most of the standard library were written by me.
17:47:18 <maedhros777> Wait, I downloaded Plof but the INSTALL file says to run configure; I don't see it
17:47:37 <maedhros777> Or should i be running configure.ac?
17:47:43 <Gregor-L> Heh, that INSTALL is autogenerated; you have to have autoconf and automake installed, and run ./autoreconf.sh before running configure.
17:48:09 <Gregor-L> (Conventionally, since configure scripts are generated, they're not put into source repositories)
17:48:55 <maedhros777> Ok
17:49:39 <maedhros777> When I run make it says "plof/plof.h:31:19: error: gc/gc.h: No such file or directory"
17:49:47 <Gregor-L> Requires libgc :P
17:49:59 <Gregor-L> (And libgc-dev or whatever your package manager wants to call it for compiling)
17:50:15 <maedhros777> Okay, I'll apt-get it
17:50:39 <Gregor-L> Get libffi-dev while you're at it.
17:50:44 <Gregor-L> Not STRICTLY necessary, but a huge plus.
17:50:47 <maedhros777> Okay
17:51:24 <Gregor-L> (Also, we should probably move this to #plof )
17:51:33 <maedhros777> Ok
17:52:44 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
17:53:16 -!- Sgeo has joined.
17:54:29 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, what package?
17:54:32 <AnMaster> oh plof
17:57:32 -!- maedhros777 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:00:09 <pikhq> I got highlighted, and the highlight is not in my buffer.
18:00:42 <Gregor-L> <maedhros777> Wow, did you write Plof by yourself?
18:00:42 <Gregor-L> <Gregor-L> Some of the standard library was written by pikhq, the interpreter, spec and most of the standard library were written by me.
18:00:47 <pikhq> Oh, there it is. Away message.
18:00:54 <pikhq> 23:29 #esoteric: < coppro> pikhq: ping?
18:01:05 <pikhq> That was the highlight.
18:01:09 <pikhq> A few days ago.
18:01:19 * pikhq just returned from weekend-ness
18:02:01 <pikhq> Gregor-L: BTW, just "autoreconf" works instead of ./autoreconf.sh nowadays.
18:02:22 <Gregor-L> pikhq: ./autoreconf.sh just runs autoreconf, then find . -name autom4te.cache | xargs rm -rf :P
18:02:29 <pikhq> Oh, I see.
18:02:30 <pikhq> :)
18:02:46 <AnMaster> what is the point of autom4te.cache?
18:02:49 <AnMaster> I always wondered
18:03:01 <AnMaster> I mean, it seems just as slow with as without that cache
18:03:02 * Sgeo goes off to take a cold shower
18:03:18 <Gregor-L> If you run autom4te (as part of autoconf) again, it doesn't need to expand macros it has cached.
18:03:36 <AnMaster> heh, I never noticed any speed diff
18:03:43 <Gregor-L> It's quite stupid, because we live in 2010, not 1975 :P
18:03:49 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, and _why_ does plof (presumably) use autoconf?
18:03:59 <AnMaster> after all we live in 2010, not 1975 :P
18:04:11 <Gregor-L> Because all the alternative systems suck donkey balls, and autoconf merely sucks dog balls?
18:04:31 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, yeah but it is one of those huge wild dogs :P
18:05:05 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, anyway there are non-sucky build systems.
18:05:20 <Gregor-L> When you spend two years doing software build automation, you learn to love autoconf and hate {plain makefiles,scons,that one the name of which I can't remember}
18:05:28 <AnMaster> however all those I know of are targeting a single specific language
18:05:32 <AnMaster> like erlang or whatever
18:05:48 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, BSD make?
18:06:08 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, also there is a technical term for that. It is: brainwashing
18:06:19 <Deewiant> CMake?
18:06:22 <Gregor-L> CMake!
18:06:25 <Gregor-L> That's the one I hate the most!
18:06:28 <Gregor-L> God CMake sucks.
18:06:39 <pikhq> Most build systems are *terrible* for automation.
18:06:41 <Gregor-L> Couldn't even remember that crappile's name.
18:06:45 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, why? I mean, it used to be worse. But even back then it was better than autoconf
18:06:48 <pikhq> Autoconf at least gets it right.
18:06:49 <Gregor-L> And yes, CMake SUCKS for automation.
18:07:17 <AnMaster> custom build system?
18:07:22 <pikhq> Gregor-L: Less so than it used to.
18:07:22 <Gregor-L> lawl
18:07:29 <pikhq> AnMaster: Those, I BURN WITH FIRE.
18:07:30 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, the kernel has a _very_ nice build system IMO
18:07:38 <AnMaster> pikhq, so you prefer the kernel to use autoconf?
18:07:43 <AnMaster> imagine the _huge_ command line
18:07:48 * pikhq too has spend quite a bit of time doing build automation
18:07:59 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: That no longer counts as custom, and its system only makes sense when you have an untenably huge number of configuration options.
18:08:02 <pikhq> AnMaster: No, that is one of the *very* few custom build systems that's not evil.
18:08:05 <AnMaster> to ./configure --arch=amd64 --enable-sata --disable-whatever --with-foo=module
18:08:07 <AnMaster> and so on
18:08:28 <pikhq> It's great when you have a massive number of configuration options.
18:08:34 <Gregor-L> Most software packages are nowhere near as build-configurable as {the kernel,busybox}.
18:08:35 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, iirc uclibc uses kernel configure
18:08:39 <AnMaster> so does busybox iirc
18:08:53 <AnMaster> yeah
18:08:57 <pikhq> uclibc and busybox are both complex enough to need it.
18:09:00 <AnMaster> true
18:09:09 <pikhq> There's also ALFS.
18:09:14 <AnMaster> I wonder why glibc doesn't use it
18:09:17 <AnMaster> pikhq, ALFS?
18:09:27 <pikhq> Automated Linux From Scratch.
18:09:31 <Gregor-L> Automated Linux From Scratch. It is exactly as WTF as it sounds.
18:09:33 <AnMaster> pikhq, oh it uses that?
18:09:37 <pikhq> Yeah.
18:09:40 <AnMaster> and ALFS sounds like cheating ;P
18:09:50 <pikhq> Only slightly.
18:09:52 * AnMaster did LFS and HLFS the hard way
18:10:09 <AnMaster> and HLFS I did successfully for a (back then at least) unsupported arch
18:10:29 * pikhq can generally bootstrap a build chain from memory by now
18:10:39 <AnMaster> but ALFS sounds interesting, I would very much like to learn how the kernel build system works on the inside
18:10:55 <AnMaster> but perhaps it will start to look horrible around then
18:10:58 <pikhq> I start having issues when members of the build chain don't build without patches.
18:11:09 <Gregor-L> Stupid patches :P
18:11:12 <AnMaster> hm?
18:11:17 <pikhq> (uClibc; GCC just plain *hates* uClibc without patches)
18:11:27 <AnMaster> pikhq, do llvm + clang?
18:11:33 <Gregor-L> X_X
18:11:38 <AnMaster> or isn't that mature enough to manage libc, kernel and so on yet?
18:11:47 <pikhq> Insufficiently mature.
18:11:51 <Gregor-L> <Apple> clang solves ALL PROBLEMS and also allows us to lock GNU out of OS X.
18:11:53 <AnMaster> right
18:12:07 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, you started hating clang now?
18:12:08 <pikhq> Well. The *C* frontend is, but the C++ frontend in the stable release isn't.
18:12:13 <AnMaster> I thought you loved it recently
18:12:16 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: No, I don't hate clang, I hate Apple.
18:12:19 <Gregor-L> I never loved clang.
18:12:21 <AnMaster> ah
18:12:23 <AnMaster> hm
18:12:23 <Gregor-L> I'm ambivalent toward clang.
18:12:28 <AnMaster> perhaps it was pikhq who did
18:12:36 <pikhq> I do quite like Clang.
18:12:45 <pikhq> It gives useful errors. Is nice.
18:12:50 <Sgeo> There's an Apple IIe emulator for Android
18:13:03 <AnMaster> pikhq, who cares about C++? I don't think you need C++ for the base system
18:13:04 <Sgeo> Why do I have a feeling one will never exist for iProduct?
18:13:07 <Gregor-L> Sgeo: On a scale from one to ten, I find that entirely unsurprising.
18:13:21 <Gregor-L> Sgeo: Because it's against the SDK license agreement?
18:13:28 <AnMaster> pikhq, well of course you do for clang itself
18:13:37 <AnMaster> but yeah apart from that (and that includes llvm)
18:13:37 <pikhq> AnMaster: Surprisingly? Many things do require C++.
18:13:52 <Sgeo> Gregor-L, how is RoboZZle not against it?
18:14:01 <AnMaster> pikhq, getting a bootable POSIX shell with the standard POSIX commands does not
18:14:23 <Gregor-L> Sgeo: It probably "is", but the license agreement is more about Apple asserting themselves as douchebags than actually accomplishing anything.
18:14:29 <pikhq> Depends on what you mean by "standard". Sure, coreutils and fileutils you can get without a C++ compiler..
18:15:22 <AnMaster> pikhq, well, all that is required from POSIX. I very much doubt you can't get that without C++. Unless it explicitly declares there should be a /usr/bin/c++ (and I have forgotten that)
18:15:40 <AnMaster> and by that I mean POSIX.1-2008 with no optional features
18:16:02 <AnMaster> the only thing that is an issue is the C compiler
18:16:04 <AnMaster> as I said above
18:16:22 <AnMaster> and in theory you could just use an older gcc version before it needed c++ stuff or pcc
18:16:30 <AnMaster> (or tcc)
18:17:52 <AnMaster> ooh this looks nifty: http://codu.org/projects/stuff/hg/index.cgi/file/32bf7f3d092d/lddcapture
18:18:49 <pikhq> You can actually build GCC without a C++ compiler, and not build in C++ support.
18:19:04 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, does it copy just the files listed in ldd or does it try to copy the original one in case it happens to be a symlink? and then run ldconfig to recreate the symlink
18:19:24 <AnMaster> pikhq, yes but gcc nowdays depend on some C++ libs iirc
18:19:33 <AnMaster> I don't think they are optional any more
18:19:58 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: It copies and does not recreate symlinks.
18:20:00 <AnMaster> http://gcc.gnu.org/install/prerequisites.html
18:20:11 <AnMaster> or hm maybe not
18:20:16 <Gregor-L> AnMaster: The created files are not expected to be canonical names, they are expected to be the names expected by the linker.
18:20:29 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, ah okay
18:20:58 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, this explains why it was too good to be true. Was hoping it was the perfect tool for populating chroots with the required libs
18:21:43 <Gregor-L> Well, it could certainly do that, so long as you don't care about the filename being correct ... that being said, if the libs depend on other files, you're still screwed.
18:22:03 <Gregor-L> (e.g. files in /usr/share)
18:22:03 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, oh. Very much to good to be true then
18:22:06 <AnMaster> ah
18:22:23 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, so it *does* do foo -> libbar -> libquux correctly then?
18:22:32 <Gregor-L> Yes, in the sense that ldd does that for it.
18:22:49 <pikhq> AnMaster: No, those libraries just have optional C++ bindings.
18:23:08 <Gregor-L> Must disappear now, ta.
18:23:10 -!- Gregor-L has quit (Quit: Leaving).
18:23:11 <AnMaster> Gregor-L, idea for future version: decompile the code in case of dlopen() to figure out (if possible) the arguments it is called with ;)
18:23:22 <AnMaster> gah, he missed that lame joke
18:23:29 <AnMaster> pikhq, hm
18:24:06 * Sgeo feels unsanitary :(
18:32:57 -!- Mathnerd314_ has joined.
18:35:37 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:35:38 -!- Mathnerd314_ has changed nick to Mathnerd314.
19:01:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
19:01:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Is there a thing like fork() which keeps the two threads using and modifying the same memory?
19:01:31 <Phantom_Hoover> In C, I should add.
19:03:08 <pikhq> Look into pthreads.
19:03:24 <pikhq> Also: abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
19:14:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Thanke ye.
19:20:58 <Phantom_Hoover> O dear god the manual pages don't cross-reference properly.
19:21:03 <Phantom_Hoover> HELP.
19:24:05 <AnMaster> heh
19:24:18 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, it doesn't?
19:24:30 <AnMaster> what bit of it specifically?
19:24:55 <AnMaster> things under "see also" in man pthreads seems to work
19:24:57 <AnMaster> tried only a few
19:25:39 <AnMaster> and there is always man pthread<tab><tab><y to list all 114 posibilities>
19:27:38 <Phantom_Hoover> I can't have much more than twenty things in man,
19:28:21 <Phantom_Hoover> I've checked Synaptic, and it doesn't look like there's a doc package I'm missing, or at least not an obvious one.
19:32:28 <AnMaster> eh?
19:32:38 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, what specific man page are you missing?
19:32:51 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, try apt-file on it
19:33:05 <AnMaster> (install and update apt-file's db first of course)
19:34:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Most of the ones beginning with "pthreads", it seems.
19:35:40 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, I can't help you without a *specific* example
19:35:48 <AnMaster> so I can search for what package provides it
19:36:03 <AnMaster> now since you seem completely uninterested I'll leave it to yourself
19:36:06 <AnMaster> have fun with apt-file
19:36:48 <AnMaster> (it might be 3p, worth considering)
19:44:35 <Gregor> manpages-posix-dev
19:47:30 <AnMaster> Gregor, he could have tried to help himself. He refused the help first, then the help to help.
19:48:06 <Phantom_Hoover> pthread_create
19:48:15 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, well Gregor already helped you
19:48:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Oops, missed that. Thanks.
19:48:33 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, I'm not feeling in the mood for helping someone who needs to look up in a dict what "specific" means
19:49:08 <AnMaster> (that is the only theory consistent with your behaviour...)
19:51:50 <Gregor> Feeling a modicum more dickish than usual, eh
19:52:53 <AnMaster> Gregor, I'm rather annoyed in general if that is what you mean
19:53:15 <Gregor> Ah x-p
19:53:24 <AnMaster> Gregor, I also always have a problem with people who can't keep up in a convo.
19:53:29 <AnMaster> well
19:53:35 <AnMaster> it is fine up to a point
19:53:52 <AnMaster> (that point varies depending on lots of things)
19:58:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Bye
19:58:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100401213457]).
20:01:42 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
20:10:14 -!- MizardX has joined.
20:14:09 -!- Tritonio_GR has joined.
20:17:44 -!- Tritonio_GR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:21:20 -!- charlls has joined.
22:23:02 -!- clog has joined.
22:23:02 -!- clog has joined.
22:23:09 -!- jcp has joined.
22:24:03 <AnMaster> fizzie, well? How do they work?
22:33:19 <fizzie> No clue; they haven't told us.
22:33:57 <fizzie> I think the Storage System (tm) is a commercial thing; the name was mentioned.
22:37:45 <fizzie> There was a SAN system called EMC CLARiiON AX150, but I'm not sure if that's the new or the old one.
22:41:33 <fizzie> "The laboratory has two large disk systems. The primary disk system is an HP EVA 5000, and the secondary is the newer EMC AX150."
22:41:45 <fizzie> I'm just not sure the "newer" here equals "newest", too.
22:42:10 <fizzie> At least the server names have changed.
22:48:30 -!- Norvig_Bonanza has joined.
22:48:40 -!- Norvig_Bonanza has left (?).
22:49:36 -!- augur has joined.
22:50:59 <fizzie> Last SysAdmGroup meeting minutes document says they've actually been thinking about 5 GB/10 GB (soft/hard) quotas for ~; nothing for project and work disks, of course.
22:51:26 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:10:13 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:10:23 -!- cheater2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:15:41 -!- charlesq__ has joined.
23:16:05 <fizzie> AnMaster: Oh, and you asked about the SSD speed; this is the lamest benchmark of them all (hdparm -t --direct), but http://pastebin.com/TwSHuU5f -- sda's the SSD, sdb and sdc are identical "energy-save, low-noise" marketed 5400 RPM 1TB rotating disks.
23:18:01 -!- charlls has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
23:18:42 -!- Rugxulo has joined.
23:18:59 <Rugxulo> <maedhros777> "Windows 7 was my idea!" What nonsense.
23:19:10 <Rugxulo> they show the French ad (!) here in the U.S. ad nauseum ... why????
23:19:26 <pikhq> Rugxulo: Fuck if I know.
23:19:41 <pikhq> It's not even like we have a notable French-speaking population outside of Louisiana...
23:20:05 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Hey! Listen!).
23:20:10 <Rugxulo> it's got (very small) subtitles, but they also (less often) show the English (U.K.) ad too
23:20:23 <Rugxulo> at least that one is comprehensible
23:20:37 <Rugxulo> still, talk about a waste of money ... "Buy Windows! Oh wait, 99% of you already have it!"
23:21:14 <Rugxulo> I still laugh at the truth in ye olde "advertising, advertising, advertising ... fix Vista ... advertising, advertising, advertising ..." joke ad
23:22:50 <Rugxulo> <Gregor-L> It's one of the few states where Greens actually win positions occasional.
23:23:10 <Sgeo> WHY does Apple want to restrict apps, exactly?
23:23:11 <Rugxulo> well Jesse Ventura made big headlines as (Independent) governor of Minnesota back in the day
23:23:13 <Sgeo> What does it get them?
23:23:20 <Rugxulo> dunno ... money, I guess
23:23:24 <Rugxulo> I agree, it's silly
23:23:36 <Rugxulo> "no cross-compiled stuff" ... eh? as if it matters!
23:24:26 <Rugxulo> <ais523> well, you aren't (yet) grounded by an Icelandic ash cloud
23:24:42 -!- charlls has joined.
23:24:44 <Rugxulo> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Eyjafjallajkull.ogg
23:25:55 <augur> [ejafjatlajokutl]
23:25:59 <augur> or something close to that
23:26:26 -!- cheater2 has joined.
23:26:34 <Rugxulo> gesundheit
23:26:41 <Rugxulo> ;-)
23:27:40 -!- charlesq__ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
23:28:31 -!- charlesq__ has joined.
23:29:58 -!- charlls has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
23:30:08 * oerjan imagines "As Katla erupts, the whole of Europe shivers, while American newscasters breathe a sound of relief."
23:31:25 <oerjan> s/sound/sigh/
23:34:35 <Rugxulo> <Gregor-L> God CMake sucks.
23:34:50 <Rugxulo> but it's more and more common these days
23:39:32 <Rugxulo> <AnMaster> and in theory you could just use an older gcc version before it needed c++ stuff or pcc
23:39:53 <Rugxulo> G++ only works with GCC (while I think you can, or used to, be able to build GCC itself with other CCs)
23:39:57 <pikhq> Rugxulo: Still a royal pain for build automation.
23:40:21 <pikhq> And yes, G++ only works with GCC, but that's quite irrelevant.
23:40:34 <pikhq> You just perform a bootstrap build, so that everything but GCC is built with GCC.
23:43:29 <Rugxulo> what compilers work at compiling GCC? I presume ICC would work (or probably did in the past), doubt many others do (Sun C ???)
23:44:13 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
23:44:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:44:38 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
23:44:55 <pikhq> Rugxulo: GCC proper actually goes to great pains to be buildable by other compilers.
23:45:06 <pikhq> For the longest time it was written to allow a K&R compiler to build it.
23:45:09 <Rugxulo> GCC is a great pain to build, IMHO ;-)
23:45:15 <pikhq> It is.
23:45:30 <pikhq> It only uses autoconf, not automake. Ugh.
23:46:15 <Rugxulo> however, I imagine that using GCC 2.7.2 to build 2.95 would then allow newer versions to compile properly, if in a pinch (since those are easier, esp. 2.7.2)
23:54:46 -!- charlls has joined.
23:57:11 -!- charlesq__ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
←2010-04-18 2010-04-19 2010-04-20→ ↑2010 ↑all