00:00:23 <calamari> how does a fractional base work
00:00:47 * Rugxulo is surprised no one here likes ETA
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00:03:13 <calamari> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Ultimate_bf_instruction_minimalization!
00:03:17 <oerjan> Rugxulo: clearly it's too easy to read, with all those common letters
00:04:45 <oerjan> calamari: you use digits from 0 up to ceiling(base-1)
00:05:55 <calamari> okay how would I express 3 in base 2.5?
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00:07:21 <oerjan> 10. then whatever 0.5 becomes...
00:08:27 <oerjan> there may be ambiguities, making the most significant digits as high as possible (greedy) is one consistent way
00:09:05 <calamari> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio_base
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00:11:05 * oerjan didn't know that terminated for integers
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00:12:06 <oklopol> in my summer job i will be trying to break a world record knuth once held
00:13:56 <oklopol> i'll be aiming for 12, his was 96
00:14:56 <oerjan> calamari: afaict that "standard form" is the same as greedy
00:15:15 <oerjan> (all the substitutions increase the most significant digit)
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00:16:01 <oklopol> of conversation not channel
00:16:06 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio_base
00:16:46 <oerjan> surprisingly integers have finite forms
00:19:05 <oerjan> calamari: oh, 1.0000... and 0.1010101... are both the same number, so standard form is ambiguous
00:19:17 <oerjan> the first one being the greedy one
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00:37:21 <nooga> can BFS be implemented using recursive function instead of queue?
00:38:04 <calamari> okay 3 in base 2.5 is approximately 10.10111000011012
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00:40:43 <nooga> i think this is quite interesting question
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00:55:26 <calamari> you could encrypt a text by converting it to base 1.x where x is the key.. the result would still be 0's and 1's, so could be easily saved as binary
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01:12:59 <uorygl> `translate une langue étrangère aussi
01:13:27 <uorygl> "I can use as a foreign language"?
01:13:36 <uorygl> `translate Je peux utiliser une langue étrangère aussi
01:13:39 <HackEgo> I can use a foreign language also
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01:44:03 <Sgeo_> Is Esperanto considered a foreign language?
01:46:25 <uorygl> It's not a domestic language, so yes.
01:47:01 <pikhq> There's several domestic languages considered "foreign".
01:47:11 <pikhq> For instance, American Sign Language is considered foreign in the US.
01:48:11 <pikhq> In spite of it being used by pretty much every deaf person in the US.
01:54:16 <uorygl> It looks like one could say that in Finnish, ü = y.
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01:54:37 <uorygl> Since ä is to a as ö is to o as y is to u.
01:55:54 <pikhq> Eh, Finnish is just Japanese stuck through a bizarre cipher. :P
01:57:33 * uorygl learns the difference between /ø/ and /y/.
01:58:01 <uorygl> /ø/ is to /e/ as /y/ is to /i/: the former of each pair is the rounded version of the latter.
01:59:33 <uorygl> And all of Finnish's consonants are easy for an English speaker, except, of course, for /r/.
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03:15:35 <Sgeo_> uorygl, today's Freefall has a .. different .. drawing style
03:26:06 <pikhq> Pulverised Coal Injection System???
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05:29:44 <Sgeo_> Question from my final exam [which I took, I'm not cheating]:
05:30:03 <Sgeo_> "The function of a compile or interpreter is to translate the specified source code to machine code."
05:30:14 <Sgeo_> I put False, and the correct answer is supposedly True
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05:37:52 <Gregor-L> Ultimately the machine always runs machine code, so arguably that's true.
05:38:44 <pikhq> I think something is broken with my expectations of what's easy to read and what's hard to read.
05:39:04 <pikhq> ja.wikipedia.org is easy reading for me.
05:39:12 <pikhq> I would *not* have expected that. At all.
05:43:46 <fizzie> Gregor-L: Alternative argument: interpret the question as "the function of a compiler or [the function of an] interpreter is to ..."
05:44:30 <Gregor-L> In which case, the answer is "compiler" :P
05:45:30 <SgeoN1> But compilers don't have to compile to machine code
05:46:10 <fizzie> Yes, well, you can't expect them to care about fine distinctions like that.
05:48:31 <fizzie> It also only says "a compiler", not "all compilers"
05:49:22 <pikhq> WHY THE HELL IS WIKIPEDIA EASY READING IN A FOREIGN LANGUAGE
05:52:19 <SgeoN1> Sure you didn't choose simple Japanese?
05:53:07 <pikhq> Absolutely positive.
05:54:10 <pikhq> I get the strong feeling I'm just getting decent at grokking Japanese's word construction or *something*.
05:54:23 <pikhq> (Japanese is *quite* a synthetic language)
05:57:00 <pikhq> Also, there does not exist a Simple Japanese Wikipedia.
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05:59:49 <AnMaster> pikhq, why are you reading in simple english then?
05:59:58 <pikhq> AnMaster: I am not.
06:00:25 <pikhq> Reading ja.wikipedia.org
06:01:51 <oerjan> `translatefromto fi en toiminta
06:02:47 <AnMaster> pikhq, also sometimes sv.wikipedia.org at least is a lot simpler written than the same en article
06:03:18 <pikhq> AnMaster: Japanese's Wikipedia is *absurdly* well-populated.
06:03:38 <AnMaster> you need to handle the html escape codes I think
06:03:57 <pikhq> http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%A8%80%E8%AA%9E Does this look like a stub to you?
06:04:15 <pikhq> About as well as en from what I've seen so far.
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06:04:53 <AnMaster> true and not all sv articles are stubs
06:05:09 <pikhq> 've yet to see a stub...
06:05:24 <oerjan> japanese quality, clearly
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06:12:48 <SgeoN1> Experimental evidence shows that the third question I got wrong, so did the professor. Unfortunately, I'm still wrong
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06:16:31 <SgeoN1> I made a typo in ConnectBot that I didn't see due to the font size
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07:16:47 <Sgeo_> 6.13 hours a week of non-work Internet use is considered an addiction by some people?
07:19:41 <coppro> to be addicted to the Internet, someone must show withdrawal symptoms
07:19:56 <coppro> or otherwise be unable to help themselves
07:20:07 * coppro is probably mildly addicted
07:20:11 <Sgeo_> http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2009/05/19/child_internet_addicts_given_shock_therapy/6567/
07:21:28 <Sgeo_> ^^reading assignment for psychology class
07:25:00 <Sgeo_> ECT isn't really a bad thing.. but this isn't that
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08:05:35 <Sgeo_> Less Wrong just helped me with my homework
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10:45:02 <ais523|unreg> hmm, I leave for a week, and now there's UTF-5 in the topic?
10:46:23 <Deewiant> We went from "I love Unicode in my topics. | 僕が問題にユニコードが好きだ。 | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D" pikhq (~pikhq@75-106-123-198.cust.wildblue.net) [08.05.2010 20:23:30]
10:46:30 <Deewiant> To "I love Punycode in my topics. | xn--v8jad0f7b6z4eoa6v0hk534a7hlwhnnl8s. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D" Gregor-L (~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) [09.05.2010 18:33:44]
10:46:53 <fizzie> Yes, and Punycode is not UTF-5.
10:48:04 <fizzie> The current topic is a bit on the long side.
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11:34:03 <ais523|unreg> pineapple: that behaviour demands an instant /whois
11:34:29 <pineapple> i'm the same pineapple i was ~a month ago
11:35:15 <ais523|unreg> yep, tried to arrange a proxy vote but messed up the paperwork
11:35:16 <pineapple> welcome to the first coalition government in a long time
11:35:43 <ais523|unreg> turns out that there was nothing to do for about 6 hours a day but to watch BBC World Service
11:36:07 <ais523|unreg> so I was probably following it more closely than most people actually in the UK
11:36:12 <pineapple> i thought world service was a radio station
11:36:17 <ais523|unreg> and yes, it's a TV channel, that's available at least in Canada
11:36:33 <ais523|unreg> (although it's called BBC World News nowadays, somehow)
11:36:43 <pineapple> i did kinda tune out after about friday morning, and was catching up mostly by what the news feed on igoogle was telling me
11:37:12 <pineapple> but i've mellowed over teh weekend
11:37:33 <ais523|unreg> many people seem annoyed at the result, but it all seems to be for different reasons
11:37:39 <pineapple> the lib dems doing shiter than everyone was expecting
11:38:51 <ais523|unreg> after Nick Clegg turned out, to everyone's surprise, to actually exist
11:39:01 <ais523|unreg> then most of the tabloids started a really huge attempt to discredit him
11:39:15 <pineapple> i know a few papers ran a "vote clegg, get brown" campaign
11:39:48 <pineapple> and 1 paper ran a "in 71 areas, if you wanna keep the tories out, it's better to vote labour" campaign in the few days before
11:40:04 <pineapple> apparently, Bristol NW was one of those... and look who came second...
11:40:22 <ais523|unreg> by the way, what's with the man in a chicken suit who keeps following David Cameron around?
11:40:54 <ais523|unreg> who's taken to following David Cameron around, whilst wearing a chicken suit
11:42:57 <ais523|unreg> apparently this is what it was all about: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/general-election/features/2010/04/21/david-cameron-the-daily-mirror-chicken-s-verdict-115875-22200120/
11:43:49 <ais523|unreg> but the fact that there was a chicken following him around became evident before the reason
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14:29:02 <ais523|unreg> I linked it on the basis that Portugese was probably easier to read than Malbolge
14:29:13 <ais523|unreg> but apart from being obviously ontopic, I don't know what it says either
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14:36:52 <Rugxulo> <Sgeo_> Is Esperanto considered a foreign language?
14:37:25 <Rugxulo> yes, invented by a Polish doctor ... although it's a conlang (preferably considered "auxiliary", aka always a second language)
14:38:02 <oklopol> what do you ppl think of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CILaZ4Zyf7w ?
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14:39:47 <oklopol> okay that one doesn't really work 8-bit
14:40:29 <oklopol> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14L9_PUhhkA
14:41:11 <oklopol> most guitar riffs without high notes sound rather boring with other instruments
14:42:40 <oklopol> heh, i should listen before i paste, that wasn't the one whose 8-bit version worked either
14:42:46 <Rugxulo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA8-Lt6eHHw
14:43:02 <Rugxulo> at least I've heard this one's original
14:44:19 <Rugxulo> I mean your selections are too obscure for me ;-)
14:45:18 <oklopol> i was just wondering if it sounds "random" to everyone outside the genre, i'm wondering if i too just like whatever crap they play fast with a guitar
14:46:04 <oklopol> often you don't really hear the main melody in that thing, that's what i mean by not working
14:46:40 <Rugxulo> yeah, I know what you mean
14:49:12 <Rugxulo> "A great could've been megaman tune."
14:49:27 <oklopol> and the point about low riffs, those are simply not very interesting without an electric guitar, and their point is not being interesting, but sounding "tough" or w/e, i'm fine with people hating that shit, but most of the melodies imo should be interesting to anyone who likes nontrivial music
14:49:42 <oklopol> (this rant because my gf thinks faceless sucks :P)
14:50:12 <oklopol> (she listens to stuff from three days grace to classical)
14:50:21 <Rugxulo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nCaWsRB8JU&feature=related
14:51:02 <Rugxulo> it was megaman ... although that was in ref to an Iron Maiden song (original I mentioned was Hangar 18)
14:51:05 <oklopol> so that's what "at least I've heard this one's original" meant
14:51:31 <Rugxulo> yes, I'm not familiar with Faceless
14:52:24 <Rugxulo> hmmm, I can't hear the main vocal melody there, oh well
14:52:33 <oklopol> i tried to learn to listen to deathcore, but currently i think most of it is bullshit, but faceless is in that genre and it's my favorite band atm
14:52:43 <oklopol> my conclusion is genres suck
14:53:48 <oklopol> i liked the megadeth thingie, thunderstruck i find a bit boring
14:54:04 <Rugxulo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac-wpfJWaEI&feature=related
14:54:52 <Rugxulo> hmmm, I hear no vocal lines in this one either
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14:55:31 <oklopol> i rarely like music that relies on vocal lines
14:56:52 <oklopol> although i don't dislike singing, it's just music where singing is the main instrument usually have no other content, and humans are a rather boring instrument
14:57:55 <oklopol> i know very few bands by name, but i doubt i like either of those
14:58:02 <Rugxulo> Van Halen always had vocals (99% of the time), didn't stop EVH from rocking out
14:58:34 <Rugxulo> heh, "Cowboys From Hell Ukulele" -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuybeFoHj_g&feature=related
14:59:58 <oklopol> most rock has trivial riffs, solos that are too complicated for my brain (little structure), and the rest is singing, something trivial in the verse, something nice and repetitive in the chorus
15:01:30 <oklopol> okay random song by satriani was okay
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15:03:01 <Rugxulo> yes, Satriani is 99.99999% instrumental
15:03:19 <Rugxulo> very very technical but melodic too
15:07:38 <oklopol> okay i think satriani has too little repetition for my taste
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15:10:28 <oklopol> i gotta go buy... don't know what yet ->
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16:02:03 <Rugxulo> woot, new DOSBox 0.74, finally!
16:02:39 <oerjan> as opposed to the old DOSBox 0.74.
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16:07:15 <Gregor-L> oerjan: Spoken with a snarkiness that makes me proud :P
16:12:32 * Rugxulo too lazy to look up and copy/paste the dumb "o/" symbol as comeback
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19:54:05 <impomatic> There's a Vintage Computer Festival at the U.K.'s National Museum of Computing if anyone's interested? 19-20 June.
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20:52:09 <pikhq> ((\v->e) x) = e[v := x]
20:52:25 <pikhq> That is to say, in e you replace all instances of "v" with "x".
20:53:27 <pikhq> Or, more broadly: it's just function application.
20:54:07 <Phantom_Hoover> But one has to avoid substituting when the variable is captured by a nested lambda
20:55:11 <pikhq> So, you replace all free instances of "v". ;)
20:58:57 <pikhq> ... Free variables? Uh, yeah. If "v" is an argument to a nested lambda, it's not free in that portion of the parse tree. So, move on.
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21:09:59 <soupdragon> Message to alise from the roughly 4 days in the past:
21:10:20 <soupdragon> π/√8 = 1 + 1/3 - 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 + 1/11 - ...
21:10:21 <soupdragon> π^2/8 = 1 + 1/3^2 + 1/5^2 + 1/7^2 + 1/9^2 + 1/11^2 + ...
21:11:08 <pineapple> i thought the whole 1 + 1/3 - 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 + 1/11... was pi/4
21:11:40 <pineapple> it might be pi/4 if you switch the signs
21:12:01 <soupdragon> ah yes I read a proof of that one the other day
21:12:12 <soupdragon> I wonder if this pi/sqrt(8) one can be derived similarly
21:12:35 <pineapple> i kinda wanna find out what your version tends to
21:13:13 <pineapple> if you plot it on a graph, after every addition/subtraction
21:13:24 <pineapple> you get a wiggly line that tends to pi/4
21:14:17 <pineapple> ok... time for you to eat a dictionary: as x increases, 1/x _tends_ to 0
21:14:39 <pineapple> or... maybe i'm using the wrong word
21:14:49 <soupdragon> pi/4 = 1 - 1/3 + 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 - ...
21:14:57 <pineapple> but anyway, apply that context to the rest of what i've just said
21:15:28 <pineapple> x = 1 + 1/3 - 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 + 1/11 - ...; find x
21:15:50 <soupdragon> I copy/pasted it directly from the internet
21:15:59 <soupdragon> !haskell 1 + 1/3 - 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 + 1/11
21:17:07 <pineapple> 21:16:28 <pineapple> ::3.1415926535897931/(8**0.5)
21:17:20 <soupdragon> !hs 1 + (sum . zipWith (\(sign,value) -> sign*(1/value + 1/(value+1))) (cycle [-1,1]) [3,7..1000])
21:18:17 <pineapple> i thought you were just going [+ -]
21:18:40 <soupdragon> What you said about pi/4 makes sense though -- I've seen that one just the other day
21:19:50 <soupdragon> http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3059/picture29l.png
21:20:31 <pineapple> yeah, i should've gotten that right
21:20:45 <pineapple> dvorak typos of a vowel will give another vowel
21:21:07 <soupdragon> Anyway, what is beautiful is the connection between the series for pi/sqrt(8) and p^2/8
21:21:22 <soupdragon> I think it's a 'coincidence' but it's still lovely
21:25:28 <soupdragon> oh now everyones pissed off at me because I said coincidence
21:25:48 <soupdragon> 'How DARE you speak this blasphemy against the platonic nature of mathematics'
21:27:33 <pineapple> (at least, until you're zen enough to understand why they happen)
21:27:33 <soupdragon> Perhaps there is only one consistent way for things to be, and mathematics, with its unique and beautiful structures that are pure expressions of logical necessity, is trying to tell us something about this?
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21:27:52 <oklofod> i figured if you are edible
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21:54:44 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
21:54:51 <EgoBot> userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
21:55:01 <EgoBot> languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
21:55:07 <EgoBot> Sorry, I have no help for unlambda!
21:55:22 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
21:55:25 <EgoBot> Sorry, I have no help for lazyk!
21:55:34 <EgoBot> Sorry, I have no help for linguine!
21:55:58 <HackEgo> bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.3268 \ wunderbar_emporium
21:56:06 <HackEgo> bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ less
21:56:14 <HackEgo> 2to3-2.6 \ X11 \ [ \ a2p \ addpart \ addr2line \ apropos \ apt-cache \ apt-cdrom \ apt-config \ apt-extracttemplates \ apt-ftparchive \ apt-get \ apt-key \ apt-mark \ apt-sortpkgs \ aptitude \ aptitude-create-state-bundle \ aptitude-curses \ aptitude-run-state-bundle \ ar \ arch \ as \ awk \ axi-cache \ base64 \ basename \ bashbug
21:57:03 <Rugxulo> <CTCP>ACTION wonders how to interpret this (yes, I wrote it, yes I suck, and yes it is painfully obtuse): ```s.si``v```s.e.n``v```s.p.p``v```s.h.a``v```s.t. ``v```s.s.p.iiiiii
21:57:41 * Rugxulo takes Opera out back for a "talk"
21:58:16 <soupdragon> !unlambda ```s.si``v```s.e.n``v```s.p.p``v```s.h.a``v```s.t. ``v```s.s.p.iiiii
21:58:17 <EgoBot> ./interps/unlambda/unlambda.bin: file /tmp/input.3506: parse error
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22:07:56 <benuphoenix> which looks better? main(){for(;;);} or :(){:|:&};: ?
22:08:31 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:08:36 <Rugxulo> unless you're trying to obfuscate
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22:10:11 * benuphoenix realizes that an infinite loop in c and a fork bomb in sh are not
22:11:51 <pikhq> main(){for(;;)fork();}
22:12:18 <benuphoenix> i can't believe i was stupid enough to load irssi in a dos command prompt. On second thought, I can believe it.
22:12:20 * Rugxulo wonders if AnMaster ever heard of BashForth ...
22:12:39 <HackEgo> bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.3721 \ wunderbar_emporium
22:12:56 <pikhq> Yes, HackEgo is very, very simple.
22:13:04 <pikhq> `run ls | grep tmpdir
22:13:44 <pikhq> `run sh -c 'ls tmpdir*'
22:13:58 <HackEgo> bin cube2.base64 cube2.jpg hack_gregor hello.txt help.txt huh netcat-0.7.1 netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz out.txt paste poetry.txt quotes share test.sh tmpdir.4014 wunderbar_emporium
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22:42:13 <AnMaster> * Rugxulo wonders if AnMaster ever heard of BashForth ... <-- yes
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22:44:28 <EgoBot> 33 ++++++++++[>+++++>+>><<<<-]>.+.>. [38]
22:44:40 <EgoBot> 33 ++++++++++[>+++++>+>><<<<-]>.+.>. [42]
22:44:49 <EgoBot> 33 ++++++++++[>+++++>+>><<<<-]>.+.>. [43]
22:45:39 <AnMaster> oh wait, can be reduced to: ++++++++++[>+++++<-]>.+. in my case... hm still too long
22:54:31 <Ilari> !bf_txtgen abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
22:54:33 <EgoBot> 112 +++++++++++[>+>+++++++++>+++++++++><<<<-]>>--.+.+.+.>++.+.+.<++++.+.+.+.>+++++.<++.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.<-. [932]
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23:03:29 <fizzie> It does better if you wait a bit.
23:03:48 <fizzie> I get ++++++++++[>++++++++++>+<<-]>---.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.>. for abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz + newline.
23:04:36 <fizzie> Actually it seems to converge to 85 characters in just ~100 generations here.
23:04:45 <fizzie> Though that's with "-t 2".
23:05:30 <fizzie> With -t 4 (the default) that takes somewhere around 4000 generations before it's something reasonable.
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23:08:47 <pikhq> 'Tis a genetic algorithm.
23:12:15 <fizzie> Genetically modified algorithm. Unnatural and unhealthy! Get the genes out of our tomatoes!
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23:42:13 <Ilari> UHF-band antennas? :-)
23:46:00 <AnMaster> <soupdragon> what should I evolve <-- alternative answer: a pokemon
23:52:43 <soupdragon> If you get it now, will it evaporate on 24th?
23:54:00 <Mathnerd314> you can get it for free, unless it is past May 24th, when you will have to pay money again
23:57:45 <coppro> predicting the future is easy
23:57:53 <coppro> soupdragon: evolve the pikachu