←2010-05-17 2010-05-18 2010-05-19→ ↑2010 ↑all
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00:16:46 <Sgeo> http://z7.comicostrich.com/comic.php?cdate=20050530
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02:57:44 <poiuy_qwert> anyone here played with the Gammaplex interpreter?
03:02:43 <Sgeo> Gammaplex?
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05:25:53 * Rugxulo wonders if AnMaster ever got the cross compiler going
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06:07:45 <Gregor> http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-wipp2.ogg
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07:30:52 <SgeoN1> Wish I had my earbuds right now.
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07:32:52 <SgeoN1> Awesome! I can't play downloads and do other things at the same time.
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08:52:18 <augur> Gregor: that was pretty good music
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09:35:13 <sdorand2> *growl*
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12:17:42 <cheater2> hi
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12:38:02 <SgeoN1> Would an aperiodic pattern moving through space have a speed?
12:42:09 <cheater2> why wouldn't it?
12:42:42 <cheater2> how do you define speed?
12:45:26 <SgeoN1> I think it's defined in terms of how many generations it takes for a pattern to translate itself how far.
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13:23:46 <Ilari> Is there even example of aperioidic pattern that moves?
13:26:02 <Ilari> Pattern that could be interesting: 1) Aperioidic and 2) coordinate limits for some axis tend to same direction without bound.
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13:27:53 <Ilari> Except that rake that fires ships with component in direction of motion would satisfy that...
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14:12:12 <Sgeo> http://superosity.keenspot.com/d/20050304.html http://superosity.keenspot.com/sup20100516-big.jpg
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14:15:02 <Sgeo> Hi Phantom_Hoover. Read logs?
14:15:10 <Phantom_Hoover> No...
14:15:20 * Phantom_Hoover reads logs
14:17:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo: There's a pattern that makes the whole universe aperiodic, if it helps.
14:18:22 <Sgeo> ? wouldn't that be any gun?
14:18:53 <Phantom_Hoover> No, not if you run them for eternity.
14:19:05 <Phantom_Hoover> The spaceships are emitted periodically.
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14:29:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Fun fact: According to the Scotsman, a million people die of hepatitis C per year.
14:30:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Even though in the same article they said that only 400000 people had it.
14:30:45 <Phantom_Hoover> In the UK, BtW.
14:31:01 <ais523> hmm
14:31:25 <Phantom_Hoover> And the population of the UK is only 60 million.
14:31:52 <Phantom_Hoover> And only 500,000 people die in the UK per year.
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15:21:05 <uorygl> `translate Yo como esto.
15:21:07 <HackEgo> I like this.
15:21:08 <uorygl> WHY WHY WHY
15:21:37 <Sgeo> ?
15:22:06 <uorygl> "Yo" means "I"; "como" means either "eat" or "similar to"; "esto" means "this".
15:22:48 <uorygl> Google Translate apparently translated it word-for-word, assuming that "como" in that context meant "similar to", i.e. "like".
15:28:39 <Gregor-L> I am like this :P
15:29:12 <Gregor-L> `translate Estoy como esto
15:29:13 <HackEgo> I like this
15:29:29 <Gregor-L> `translate Yo soy como esto
15:29:30 <HackEgo> I am like this
15:29:47 <Gregor-L> `translate uorygl esta como esto
15:29:49 <HackEgo> uorygl this like this
15:29:53 <Gregor-L> Erm
15:30:28 <Gregor-L> `translate uorygl es como esto
15:30:30 <HackEgo> uorygl is like this
15:30:34 <Gregor-L> Why did I think "esta" X-D
15:31:49 <uorygl> `translate A uorygl es les gusta esto.
15:31:51 <HackEgo> A uorygl is like this.
15:32:01 <uorygl> ...
15:32:22 <uorygl> `translate A Kelsey le gusta la comida.
15:32:24 <HackEgo> A Kelsey likes the food.
15:32:32 <uorygl> `translate uorygl es les gusta esto.
15:32:34 <HackEgo> uorygl is like this.
15:32:52 <uorygl> I conclude that Google Translate is stupid.
15:34:43 <Gregor-L> `translate uorygl aspira pene de burro
15:34:45 <HackEgo> uorygl sucks donkey penis
15:34:59 <Gregor-L> I don't think Google Translate likes you!
15:38:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Which language is this?
15:38:51 <Gregor-L> Malay
15:39:20 <Phantom_Hoover> ...
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16:59:32 <ais523> hmm, trying to compile someone else's C++ program, and I'm getting a bizarre error
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17:00:12 <ais523> "error: no matching function for call to ‘QSet<int>::contains(QSet<int>&)’" "note: candidates are: bool QSet<T>::contains(const T&) const [with T = int]"
17:00:27 <ais523> in other words, no function matches, or possibly more than one, look, here's exactly one
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17:01:01 <ais523> I wonder if something's weird about the mismatch in the amount of constness
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17:08:39 <fizzie> Yes, the "candidates" it list are (I think) just the ones with the same name.
17:09:18 <fizzie> And for QSet<int>, you only have that one that takes a const int&, and your argument is actually a QSet<int>.
17:09:28 <ais523> aha
17:09:41 <ais523> the existing function is set-contains-member, rather than set-contains-set
17:10:08 <ais523> I fear I have the wrong version of various libraries, but I'm just going around fixing things up by hand atm
17:10:20 <ais523> working out what they're meant to do and rewriting them to something that works
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17:13:12 <fizzie> It's even better when the missing library function is a local patch which no-one has bothered to document.
17:13:17 <ais523> seems the set in question is fixed-size, so I just changed it into four contains calls separated by &&
17:16:05 <ais523> I /did/ notice that the Linux binaries of the thing in question were 404s, which is not an encouraging sign
17:16:11 <ais523> maybe someone broke the Linux build recently
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17:37:01 <pikhq_> I think at this point, it's just dropping connections to fuck with me.
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17:48:03 <AnMaster> * Rugxulo wonders if AnMaster ever got the cross compiler going <-- will look at it during the weekend and later
17:48:07 <AnMaster> no time currently
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17:49:57 <pikhq> Yeah, the modem is fucking with me.
17:50:00 <pikhq> It keeps resetting.
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17:50:36 <impomatic> Hi :-)
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18:02:11 <pikhq_> Modem hates me *so much*
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18:12:20 <impomatic> I'm starting a collection of flowchart templates.
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18:18:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Flowcharts are for cissies!
18:21:44 <fizzie> "Computer and information scientists"?
18:21:52 <fizzie> (Our lab used to be called "CIS".)
18:23:43 <Phantom_Hoover> No.
18:24:39 <fizzie> (Before it merged with the TCS -- theoretical computer science -- lab to form an ICS -- information and computer science -- department. I can manage to remember that much, but never the corresponding Finnish terms.)
18:25:37 <fizzie> If you mean [[1. sissy, pantywaist, pansy, milksop, Milquetoast -- (a timid man or boy considered childish or unassertive)]], that's spelt differently.
18:28:47 <Zuu> You're such a fizzie
18:29:01 <Zuu> I mean, Hi!
18:29:20 <fizzie> A common typo.
18:29:31 <fizzie> Wordnet doesn't know about me, but as far as I've been told, I'm some sort of a bath product.
18:29:47 <Zuu> :O
18:30:28 <fizzie> This thing you dump in a bath tub and it goes fizzly and gives out some scents and colours the water and whatever.
18:31:34 <fizzie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_fizzie has a redirect.
18:33:27 * Zuu plobs fizzie into his bath tub
18:34:02 <Zuu> Pretty colors :)
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19:16:25 <AnMaster> ais523, yay I finally got the toolchain to compile
19:30:43 <AnMaster> only to find out the thing needed a C++ cross compiler too
19:30:44 <AnMaster> oh well
19:30:48 <AnMaster> *starts to compile that*
19:33:41 <Phantom_Hoover> The Scottish curriculum is the stupidest *ever*.
19:34:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Where saner systems have GCSEs, the SQA has Foundation, General, Credit (all Standard Grade), Access 3, Intermediate 1 and Intermediate 2.
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19:35:23 * oerjan thinks #b3s23 is a rather bad name if you want _other_ than #esoteric regulars to find the channel
19:35:24 <Phantom_Hoover> And the Standard Grade grading system has 6 types of pass and *4* kinds of fail.
19:35:47 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan: Yeah, but #life and #gol were taken.
19:36:05 <Phantom_Hoover> I might make an announcement on the conwaylife forum.
19:36:12 <oerjan> and they weren't on the same topic?
19:36:53 <Phantom_Hoover> They may well have been, but both are dead.
19:37:13 <oerjan> hm
19:37:58 <Phantom_Hoover> #life is registered by one Grub, and #gol by Fluke.
19:38:37 <oerjan> #gameoflife maybe?
19:38:47 <AnMaster> oerjan, ?
19:38:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Baah!
19:38:56 <Phantom_Hoover> alise missed that.
19:39:16 <oerjan> AnMaster: it's available, it seems
19:39:24 <fizzie> Shouldn't game-of-life talk be on a ##channel anyhow?
19:39:32 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, wasn't grub one the nicks that the founder of this network owned?
19:39:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, yeah.
19:39:48 <AnMaster> hm no
19:39:51 <AnMaster> it can't have been
19:39:58 <fizzie> AnMaster: Maybe you're confusing with lilo. :p
19:39:59 <AnMaster> "-NickServ- Last seen : (about 2 weeks ago)"
19:40:04 <fizzie> AnMaster: Both are bootloaders, after all.
19:40:06 <AnMaster> fizzie, yes but I thought he owned both nicks
19:40:12 <Phantom_Hoover> The yeah was aimed at fizzie, BtW.
19:40:28 <AnMaster> fizzie, Hm is Conway still alive?
19:40:36 <AnMaster> if yes he could register a #channel one ;P
19:40:39 <oerjan> certainly
19:41:07 <oerjan> he's probably far too busy to be on irc
19:41:14 <AnMaster> heh
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19:41:49 <oerjan> and life is just one of his many inventions, anyway
19:42:27 <pikhq> Conway's done a *lot* of stuff.
19:42:57 <oerjan> some of which is much more mathematically impressive than game of life
19:43:01 <AnMaster> good point
19:43:04 <pikhq> Yeah.
19:43:12 <fizzie> AnMaster: Possibly, though the "primary channel" rules say "groups and organizations", not individuals. But he's a mathematician, he can always define himself to be a single-element group.
19:43:13 <AnMaster> but GOL *is* most well known
19:43:16 <AnMaster> without a doubt
19:43:29 <pikhq> Yes, it's the most well-known bit of his recreational mathematics work.
19:44:09 <oerjan> fizzie: he knows a lot about finite groups, that's for sure ;)
19:44:30 <oerjan> (some of the simple finite groups are named after him)
19:45:10 <oerjan> ("simple" here is in the technical sense, btw, which is far from simple)
19:45:27 <pikhq> He also invented an algorithm for calculating days of the week that can reasonably be done in your head.
19:45:40 <pikhq> (called the "Doomsday algorithm")
19:45:49 <AnMaster> pikhq, day of the week given a date or?
19:46:01 <pikhq> AnMaster: Given a date.
19:46:13 <AnMaster> pikhq, also does it take into account the Julian/Gregorian switch?
19:46:21 <AnMaster> pikhq, and if so, for which country
19:46:24 <pikhq> No, it's purely Gregorian.
19:46:37 <oerjan> hmph, _i_ can calculate days of the week in my head, given enough time, no formula needed ;)
19:46:52 <pikhq> Well. You can adapt the algorithm easily to Julian, but it doesn't account for switch dates.
19:46:58 <pikhq> oerjan: In a few seconds?
19:47:14 <AnMaster> pikhq, considering Sweden had a especially funny and problematic switch. IIRC we tried to switch slowly at first by skipping leap year for several years. Except we failed to skip it a lot of the time
19:47:17 <oerjan> given enough time, i said
19:47:26 <AnMaster> so one year we gave up, went back to julian by inserting *two* leapdays
19:47:42 <AnMaster> then some 50 or whatever years later we switched it all in one go
19:48:02 <AnMaster> pikhq, could you handle that ;P
19:48:09 <pikhq> AnMaster: Not trivially.
19:48:30 <oerjan> AnMaster: fwiw the original romans had the same problem with the julian calendar, after julius caesar died there was a messy time when they had leap years every third instead of every fourth year iirc
19:48:43 <AnMaster> described under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar#Adoption_in_Europe
19:48:58 <pikhq> It would also probably get *royally* screwed up by things like Japan's switch from the Chinese lunar calendar to the Gregorian calendar.
19:49:16 <oerjan> augustus had to fix it, i think
19:49:56 <pikhq> ... And reign years.
19:50:00 <AnMaster> pikhq, :D
19:50:16 <pikhq> Japan still uses reign years!
19:50:51 <oerjan> the romans _before_ caesar had a _real_ mess, they had leap months that were inserted by whim by politicians
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19:51:45 <oerjan> and could be used to shorten or prolong elected terms
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19:52:12 <fizzie> Thailand's current official calendar is currently in year 2553, but I don't know/remember the details.
19:52:35 <AnMaster> oerjan, ... how silly
19:52:42 <pikhq> Japan is currently in the year 22.
19:52:52 <pikhq> Heisei 22, to be specific.
19:52:53 <AnMaster> pikhq, oh? and what do computers in Japan say?
19:53:00 <pikhq> AnMaster: 2010.
19:53:04 <AnMaster> good
19:53:09 <pikhq> Anno Domini years are *also* in use.
19:53:19 <AnMaster> pikhq, just don't push one?
19:53:20 <AnMaster> ;P
19:53:23 <oerjan> AnMaster: especially since they were corrupt enough that it caused the year to drift
19:53:35 <pikhq> And fortunately, the only difference *is* the epoch, so it doesn't matter too much.
19:53:48 <fizzie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_solar_calendar -- I don't know about computers, but at least product "best before" labels used those years.
19:53:48 <AnMaster> oerjan, why didn't they just insert months forever then?
19:53:59 <oerjan> AnMaster: max 1 per year
19:54:13 <AnMaster> oerjan, ah. But they did insert one every year presumably?
19:54:51 <oerjan> AnMaster: well sometimes they wanted to _shorten_ the term of someone they didn't like, i think
19:55:15 <AnMaster> oerjan, wouldn't it shorten the term for themselves too?
19:55:18 <oerjan> i'm not exactly who decided and whose terms were affected
19:55:23 <oerjan> *+sure
19:55:26 <AnMaster> ah
19:56:04 <AnMaster> oerjan, also how could it be used to shorten things? After all wouldn't that require inserting a negative leap month!?
19:56:11 <oerjan> the consuls were affected, i think. the years were _named_ after their consuls, so they sort of had to be i think
19:56:44 <oerjan> AnMaster: well shorter than if they inserted one
19:57:44 <AnMaster> ah
19:58:12 <pikhq> fizzie: What's with the Chinese numerals? o.O
19:58:27 <oerjan> (the consuls were the two most powerful officials in rome, when there wasn't a dictator)
20:00:10 <oerjan> 04:38:02 <SgeoN1> Would an aperiodic pattern moving through space have a speed?
20:00:22 <oerjan> a truly aperiodic pattern would have to be growing
20:00:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Hence its growth rate is its speed.
20:00:56 <oerjan> um no
20:01:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Well.
20:01:12 <oerjan> if it grows to both directions, the average speed might be zero
20:01:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, that doesn't work.
20:01:31 <oerjan> i assume "moving through space" implies it moves mostly in one direction, though
20:01:38 -!- impomatic has left (?).
20:01:53 <AnMaster> pikhq, says on the page it often also lists that and Gergorian as well?
20:02:07 <pikhq> AnMaster: I'm just not comprehending why is all.
20:02:12 <AnMaster> ah no iea
20:02:15 <AnMaster> idea*
20:02:19 <pikhq> It's not like Thai is written with Chinese characters!
20:02:42 <oerjan> in which case you could define the speed as the limit of the displacement of the "center of mass" divided by time. there is no guarantee the limit actually _exists_, though
20:02:50 <AnMaster> fizzie, since computers internally work with unix time commonly, presumably it might, but it is just a string formatting thing
20:03:41 <oerjan> (the pattern could stop for a while, then go on, then stop, in such a way that the average fluctuates and the limit fails to exist)
20:06:36 <oerjan> <Ilari> Is there even example of aperioidic pattern that moves?
20:07:02 <oerjan> in principle it should exist, since you have constructors, arbitrary computation and stuff
20:11:30 <oerjan> 10:33:27 * Zuu plobs fizzie into his bath tub
20:11:30 <oerjan> 10:34:02 <Zuu> Pretty colors :)
20:11:54 <oerjan> it's not _healthy_ when someone turns blue in the bath tub, you know
20:13:03 <Zuu> :P
20:13:58 <Zuu> Also, i would just like to inform that it is very annoying to write whitespace sensitive parsers
20:14:23 <pikhq> Zuu: What sort of whitespace sensitivity?
20:14:25 <oerjan> ais523: russian wiki spam
20:14:47 <Zuu> the kind where whitespace have meaning in some places, and doesnt in other places
20:15:14 <Zuu> structure by indentation for instance
20:15:25 <pikhq> So, like Python?
20:15:44 <Zuu> for instance
20:15:56 <oerjan> haskell's indentation system is rather awkward to implement
20:16:17 <pikhq> Do the Python solution. Have the lexer convert it into up-indentation and down-indentation tokens.
20:16:48 <Zuu> hmmm... but that would just be a nasty lexer then
20:16:52 <pikhq> Yeah, Haskell's indentation is very much for the sake of people writing code, not the sake of the compiler.
20:16:53 <oerjan> as in, you cannot do it purely in the lexer - it interacts with the grammar's error rules
20:17:03 <Zuu> although i suppose it could turn out to be better than soing it in the parser
20:17:18 <Zuu> but still, i have linebreak sensitivity too
20:17:18 <ais523> oerjan: deleted
20:18:28 <Zuu> oh well, my language is soon done, sooo...
20:21:02 <AnMaster> pikhq, but how does it handle blank lines with no indentation?
20:21:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Zuu: I haven't seen you before.
20:21:13 <AnMaster> because I'm pretty sure that works
20:21:14 <AnMaster> like
20:21:19 <AnMaster> (- is indent here):
20:21:23 <AnMaster> --code
20:21:25 <AnMaster>
20:21:29 <AnMaster> --more code
20:21:35 <oerjan> AnMaster: only the indentation of actual tokens matter, iirc
20:21:42 <AnMaster> oerjan, exactly
20:21:54 <AnMaster> but checking for that seems rather nasty
20:22:13 <oerjan> also, indentation of tokens can matter even if it's not the first token on the line
20:22:32 <AnMaster> oerjan, also line continuations:
20:22:35 <Zuu> Nasty!
20:22:43 <AnMaster> --code(blah blah
20:22:50 <oerjan> although only after the indentation block starters (do, of, where, let)
20:22:51 <AnMaster> -- blah blah blahg)
20:22:53 <AnMaster> like that
20:22:54 <Zuu> Phantom_Hoover: i think i have peeked in here a few time before :)
20:23:00 <AnMaster> if the indention is also done with spaces
20:23:07 <AnMaster> then it will be painful
20:23:09 <AnMaster> oerjan, ^
20:23:10 <Zuu> *times
20:23:53 <oerjan> AnMaster: er -- is a line comment in haskell, no continuation involved
20:24:22 <Zuu> line-continuations
20:24:23 <AnMaster> oerjan, ....
20:24:25 <AnMaster> oerjan, see above
20:24:26 <AnMaster> duh
20:24:29 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> (- is indent here):
20:24:39 <AnMaster> oerjan, and I was referring to python mostly
20:24:44 <AnMaster> oerjan, as in, in general terms
20:24:58 <AnMaster> oerjan, because well, tab tends to render badly with many irc clients
20:25:05 <AnMaster> and it was important to be make the thing clear
20:25:12 <oerjan> AnMaster: oh. python is simpler i believe, although even it allows some things to continue, yeah
20:25:31 <AnMaster> oerjan, yes and it allows the first case too of no indention on a blank line afaik
20:25:58 <oerjan> in haskell to continue things you need to indent them more than the current block, though, so _that_ detail is simpler in haskell
20:26:48 <oerjan> although it still trips up people in some situations, notably if then else in do blocks (which is modified in the new Haskell 2010 revision)
20:27:23 <AnMaster> oerjan, sigh, I was talking about python all along. Not about haskell..
20:27:30 <AnMaster> *shrug*
20:27:37 <oerjan> so? i can talk about haskell for comparison.
20:27:50 <AnMaster> well, it seems rather fixed at haskell
20:27:56 <AnMaster> :P
20:28:11 <oerjan> er english parsing error
20:29:28 <AnMaster> also I do believe my computer is estimating charge time left somewhat incorrectly... "59% charged, 28734e+23 hours and 23 minutes left until fully charged"
20:30:06 <oerjan> AnMaster: also you started your part of the discussion by asking pikhq how the blank lines were done in haskell, which was what i started answering
20:30:07 <fizzie> "ETA 24855d 3:14:07" said a download thing to me an hour ago.
20:30:11 <fizzie> (It's done already.)
20:30:23 <AnMaster> fizzie, well that could have been plausible stalled
20:30:24 <AnMaster> but...
20:30:42 <fizzie> Maybe your battery-charging is stalled too. The electrons are resting.
20:30:55 <AnMaster> fizzie, as far as I know the gnome power applet thingy does this is based on previous charges
20:30:56 <AnMaster> as
20:31:04 <AnMaster> it looks at the time left before
20:31:22 <AnMaster> since percentage charged it isn't a linear function of time
20:31:33 <AnMaster> so it uses previously calculated curves for it
20:31:44 <AnMaster> okay now it looks even stranger..
20:32:00 <AnMaster> "60% charged, -2 hours and 0 minutes left until fully charged"
20:32:17 <AnMaster> and no it wasn't fully charged back then :P
20:34:07 <Phantom_Hoover> I desire a Klein Bottle hat.
20:35:26 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, what does it look like?
20:36:44 <Phantom_Hoover> A bobble hat with a tube coming from the top and connecting to the side.
20:40:13 * Phantom_Hoover ponders the topology of Life on a Klein bottle.
20:41:19 <Phantom_Hoover> I suppose that most cylindrical technology would work properly.
20:41:27 <Phantom_Hoover> And a lot of toroidal stuff.
20:42:00 <oerjan> you just need to connect the top of a cylinder to the bottom in the wrong way
20:42:41 <oerjan> so toroidal mapping on left and right edges, mirror wrapping on bottom/top
20:43:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah.
20:43:30 <Phantom_Hoover> The real projective plane might be interesting.
20:44:32 <oerjan> the tricky part with these 2-manifolds i think is convincing yourself each cell still has 8 neighbors in the corners
20:44:32 <AnMaster> ais523, gcc configure options docs: "Native Language Support is enabled by default if not doing a canadian cross build."
20:44:36 <AnMaster> what on earth XD
20:44:52 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan: How can they not?
20:45:04 <SgeoN1> What happened? I was sleeping
20:45:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, I suppose you'd get into problems on a sphere.
20:45:29 <oerjan> yeah
20:45:38 <SgeoN1> Someone pinged me
20:46:00 <Phantom_Hoover> But tori, Klein bottles and the RPP should be fine.
20:46:22 <oerjan> as long as each corner borders the four others it's fine, i think
20:46:27 <oerjan> *three
20:46:57 * Phantom_Hoover looks up topology on WP
20:47:31 <oerjan> this sewing together two-manifolds was basically the starting part of our algebraic topology course
20:47:40 <oerjan> *stuff was
20:48:10 <Phantom_Hoover> I have not taken an algebraic topology course, wop the advantage is yours.
20:48:18 <oerjan> *MWAHAHAHA*
20:48:28 <Zuu> I dont like how the 'bottle' intersects its own surface
20:48:47 <Phantom_Hoover> I had to revise complex numbers for about half an hour in class today.
20:48:56 <Zuu> Would be more awesome to have a 'one sided bottle' that didnt intersect itself
20:48:57 <oerjan> Zuu: that's the price for picturing it in three dimensions
20:49:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Not even difficult complexes, just basic stuff.
20:49:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Zuu: It's the same reason you can't have a Moebius band in 2D.
20:49:41 <Zuu> oerjan: if you picture it in four dimensions, can you please picture me while holding the bottle? :P
20:50:04 <Phantom_Hoover> If you can visualise 4D I am utterly envious of you.
20:50:11 <Phantom_Hoover> I spent several days trying.
20:50:36 <oerjan> Zuu: i don't think there are any non-oriented 2-manifolds without borders (the technical term for one sided bottle :D) that can be embedded without intersection in three dimensions
20:50:44 <oerjan> *non-orientable
20:51:00 <Phantom_Hoover> That's what soupdragon was on about a while ago
20:51:13 <Zuu> oerjan: i have no idea what you just tried to tell me there :P
20:51:31 <oerjan> Zuu: i repeat, *MWAHAHAHA*
20:51:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Zuu: You can't have a 3-sided bottle in 3D unless it intersects itself.
20:51:36 <Zuu> :)
20:51:41 <Phantom_Hoover> s/3-/1-/
20:51:50 <Zuu> Phantom_Hoover: good, because i dont want one
20:52:03 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
20:52:06 <Zuu> i want a 'one sided'
20:52:11 * Phantom_Hoover is scared
20:52:25 <Zuu> Muhaha, scared fo the one sided bottle :P
20:52:27 * Phantom_Hoover retreats to logs
20:52:27 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*quantum@unaffiliated/fax.
20:52:40 <Zuu> me shakes the bottle in front of Phantom_Hoover's face :P
20:52:41 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
20:52:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Zuu: No, oerjan opped himself.
20:52:59 <Phantom_Hoover> The last two times he did that he banned someone.
20:53:01 <oerjan> unless there are protests
20:53:08 <oerjan> this time, the reverse
20:53:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Zuu: I meant 1-sided
20:53:38 <Zuu> :)
20:54:17 <Zuu> I suppose i'd have to settle for one with edges then
20:54:55 <Phantom_Hoover> But a while ago fax/soupdragon said that s?he had a marvellous demonstration of the falsehood of string theory based on the non-orientability(?) of the Klein bottle.
20:55:50 <Zuu> that sounds like two completely unrelated topics to me, but oh well
20:56:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, no-one else got it.
20:56:24 <oerjan> Zuu: i think that was about when s?he started unhinging
20:56:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Without quite a lot of explanation which you can just logread for.
20:56:47 <Zuu> Hehe
20:57:09 <Sgeo> Someone pinged me, I was napping
20:57:16 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan: It was a sort-of sane argument, but it fell down easily and fax was bloody obnoxious about it.
20:57:51 <Zuu> thats the problem of spending too much time on something, you become too comitted :)
20:59:02 * Sgeo finds it and reads it
20:59:02 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: does fax have something against you personally btw, i have a vague idea this is not the first time s?he curses you
20:59:12 <oerjan> *cursed
20:59:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Um...
20:59:43 <oerjan> this may just be my faulty memory
21:00:12 <Phantom_Hoover> I ignored h(im|er) during the Brainfuck->Nat thing, and s?he took it badly.
21:00:25 <Phantom_Hoover> It was not in bad faith, I add.
21:00:32 <oerjan> Sgeo: i pinged you but i've forgotten what i twas
21:00:58 <Sgeo> oerjan, about aperiodic needing to be growing, stuff like that
21:01:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Must revise.
21:01:23 <oerjan> i just wondered if s?he had any remotely sane reason to assume you were actually trying to insult her
21:01:26 <oerjan> Sgeo: yeah
21:01:30 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan: No.
21:01:46 <oerjan> ok then
21:01:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Though I did insult her during the Life thing, sort of.
21:02:04 <oerjan> that's what i meant
21:02:15 <Phantom_Hoover> But this was after the Klein bottle thing, and she was slightly unhinged already.
21:02:27 <Phantom_Hoover> OK, I really must go noe.
21:02:37 <oerjan> bye
21:03:19 <Sgeo> Bye Phantom_Hoover
21:24:16 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
21:25:04 <AnMaster> ais523, any idea?
21:30:16 <Zuu> Whoah, my parser seems to work pretty well :)
21:30:43 <ais523> AnMaster: context?
21:31:26 <oerjan> clearly it's a general statement
21:31:35 <oerjan> do you have _any_ idea
21:32:22 <Ilari> Yeah, as great the amount of different stuff string theory can reproduce, there are limits for it...
21:34:31 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:42:00 -!- charlls has joined.
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21:45:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:49:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:59:49 -!- augur has joined.
22:11:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has set topic: For Game of Life discussion go to ##gameoflife | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
22:14:17 <AnMaster> ais523, hm?
22:14:22 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> ais523, gcc configure options docs: "Native Language Support is enabled by default if not doing a canadian cross build."
22:14:23 <AnMaster> ais523, that
22:14:29 <ais523> ok, I didn't see that line
22:14:38 <ais523> and canadian cross, it would probably be too tricky to write the configure file
22:14:57 <AnMaster> ais523, eh?
22:15:12 <AnMaster> because Canada is bilingual?
22:15:15 <AnMaster> ;P
22:15:23 <ais523> no, look up what a canadian cross actually is
22:15:28 <ais523> you cross-compile a cross-compiler
22:15:29 <AnMaster> ah
22:15:34 <AnMaster> okay that explains it
22:15:42 <pikhq> Is nice and crazy stuff.
22:15:46 <AnMaster> ais523, it did seem very wtf if you interpreted it as I did
22:16:07 <AnMaster> ../../gcc-3.4.6/gcc/c-dump.c:136:5: warning: case value '152' not in enumerated type 'enum tree_code'
22:16:07 <AnMaster> ../../gcc-3.4.6/gcc/c-dump.c:121:5: warning: case value '153' not in enumerated type 'enum tree_code'
22:16:07 <AnMaster> ../../gcc-3.4.6/gcc/c-dump.c:163:5: warning: case value '154' not in enumerated type 'enum tree_code'
22:16:10 <AnMaster> lots of warnings
22:16:11 <AnMaster> like that
22:16:14 <AnMaster> somewhat scary
22:16:23 <AnMaster> and yeah I haven't got C++ compiler to work
22:16:48 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:17:20 <AnMaster> the thing is... it ends in a non-deterministic place kind of. Sometimes a sub-configure, sometimes in linking, sometimes in compiling. Then in the same sub-configure again even though the issue was supposedly solved already...
22:17:34 <AnMaster> and sometimes I made no changes between those
22:25:42 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan: Ping pong.
22:26:13 <oerjan> gnop gnip
22:26:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Excellent.
22:26:27 <Phantom_Hoover> My very own tac.
22:26:35 <oerjan> *facepalm*
22:26:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Why?
22:26:55 <oerjan> !userinterps
22:26:57 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore chaos chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird fudd funetak google graph gregor hello id jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg
22:27:12 <oerjan> !reverse We automate things, here
22:27:16 <EgoBot> ereh ,sgniht etamotua eW
22:27:18 <Phantom_Hoover> !help postmodern_aoler
22:27:18 <EgoBot> Sorry, I have no help for postmodern_aoler!
22:27:25 <Phantom_Hoover> !help postmodern
22:27:26 <EgoBot> Sorry, I have no help for postmodern!
22:27:45 <oerjan> none of those have help messages
22:27:53 <Phantom_Hoover> !postmodern
22:27:53 <oerjan> they're user-defined commands
22:28:03 <oerjan> ^show
22:28:03 <fungot> echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble
22:28:06 <Phantom_Hoover> !sh ls interps
22:28:07 <EgoBot> 1l
22:28:20 <oerjan> ^rev Fungot can do stuff too
22:28:20 <fungot> oot ffuts od nac tognuF
22:28:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Is there anything he can't do?
22:29:03 <oerjan> who knows
22:29:05 <Phantom_Hoover> !sh postmodern
22:29:26 <oerjan> i don't know if those actually are files
22:29:32 <Phantom_Hoover> !ls
22:29:36 <oerjan> !postmodern Just try it like this
22:29:36 <EgoBot> Just try the semiotic object like this semiotically
22:29:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh.
22:29:49 <oerjan> !show postmodern
22:29:50 <EgoBot> sh postmodern
22:29:54 <oerjan> oh
22:30:02 <Phantom_Hoover> !postmodern The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain.
22:30:03 <EgoBot> Tted Kennedy rain the penetrated space of in the penetrated space of Spain the penetrated space of falls mainly on tted Kennedy plain the penetrated space of.
22:30:13 <oerjan> ok it actually _is_ defined that way :D
22:30:47 <Phantom_Hoover> !sh postmodern Klein bottles are not much good as bottles.
22:30:57 <Phantom_Hoover> !postmodern Klein bottles are not much good as bottles.
22:30:58 <EgoBot> Klein the penetrated space of bottles are not much subliminated homosexuality type as bottles.
22:31:13 <Phantom_Hoover> I once heard them described as pretzels.
22:32:40 <oerjan> !show graph
22:32:40 <EgoBot> perl (sending via DCC)
22:32:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined.
22:33:20 <Phantom_Hoover_> Oh, no, I've been underscored.
22:33:40 <oerjan> tragic
22:33:46 <Phantom_Hoover_> !show graph
22:33:46 <EgoBot> perl (sending via DCC)
22:34:24 <Phantom_Hoover_> But yeah, the pretzel thing was IIRC in The Number Devil.
22:35:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:35:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover.
22:36:02 <Phantom_Hoover> That book was probably the first mathematical thing to which I was exposed.
22:37:06 * oerjan never heard of it
22:39:48 <Phantom_Hoover> I don't know when it was written.
22:40:03 <Phantom_Hoover> 1998.
22:40:16 <Phantom_Hoover> So you were far past the point of readi it
22:40:44 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:40:58 <oerjan> ah
22:42:17 <Phantom_Hoover> It's for children and teenagers.
22:45:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm. You're a hard man to Googlestalk, oerjan.
22:45:42 <Phantom_Hoover> And now I must try to sleep.
22:46:22 <pikhq> Isn't his name nearly the Norwegian equivalent of "John Smith"?
22:46:29 <oerjan> only the last name
22:46:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]).
22:47:02 <oerjan> but the first name isn't too rare, either
22:47:41 * Sgeo is somewhat more difficult to Googlestalk than makes sense given his name.
22:48:00 <Sgeo> There's some gay DJ in the area with my name
22:48:10 <Sgeo> Erm, don't know if he's gay
22:48:17 <Sgeo> But I seem to recall something like that
22:49:12 <fizzie> ^echo Fungot also has that confusing echo.
22:49:12 <fungot> Fungot also has that confusing echo. Fungot also has that confusing echo.
22:49:49 <Sgeo> Hm, he mostly plays music for gay people
22:52:00 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:56:46 <AnMaster> YAY
22:56:53 <AnMaster> \o/
22:56:53 <myndzi> |
22:56:54 <myndzi> /|
22:56:56 <AnMaster> ...
22:57:09 <AnMaster> way to ruin by happiness...
22:57:22 <oerjan> O_o
22:57:25 <AnMaster> I have BrickOS running
22:57:28 <AnMaster> on my RCX
22:57:39 <AnMaster> at last the cross compiler pain paid off
22:58:02 <AnMaster> ais523, fizzie ^
22:58:10 <AnMaster> and oerjan too I guess ^
23:02:40 <fizzie> A winner is you.
23:04:05 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: null).
23:04:39 <oerjan> A \o| winner \o/ is |o/ you.
23:04:40 <myndzi> | | |
23:04:40 <myndzi> |\ /| |\
23:05:19 <Zuu> :O
23:06:04 * Zuu takes the prize and runs
23:06:19 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:06:44 <fizzie> oerjan is in the happy class of people who can utilize the dance and have the bodies align for both the "start of nickname" and "start of comment text" alignments.
23:07:35 <Sgeo> What does it look like for start of nickname folks?
23:08:12 <fizzie> It gets unaligned for non-six-letter nicks.
23:08:35 <Sgeo> Oh, I understand what you mean now
23:08:37 <oerjan> i thought myndzi's dancers _were_ start of nickname based
23:08:39 <fizzie> Er, I mean, for "start of comment text" folks. It's properly aligned for start-of-nickname alignment.
23:08:41 <fizzie> Yes.
23:08:47 <fizzie> I was confused there.
23:09:06 <Sgeo> So \o/ won't work for me
23:09:06 <myndzi> |
23:09:07 <myndzi> |\
23:09:09 <Sgeo> Yeah
23:09:22 <oerjan> but looks right here
23:09:23 <fizzie> Well, it works if you do start-of-nickname.
23:09:24 <Sgeo> Or at least, to me, it looks like it won't work for me
23:09:35 <fizzie> <Sgeo> So \o/ won't work for me
23:09:35 <fizzie> <myndzi> |
23:09:35 <fizzie> <myndzi> |\
23:09:35 <myndzi> |
23:09:35 <myndzi> /|
23:09:49 <fizzie> That looks a bit disturbing.
23:09:58 <oerjan> it looks awful in the logs though, with the special characters
23:10:06 <oerjan> whatever they are
23:10:13 <Sgeo> Why are special characters even involved?
23:10:18 <oerjan> no idea
23:10:52 <Zuu> Oh look a guy whos leg itself have legs!
23:11:11 <oerjan> that's a nasty outgrowth you have there, sir
23:11:26 <Zuu> Must looke wicked to see that guy run ^^
23:11:28 <Sgeo> He looks like a double amputee
23:11:49 <Sgeo> Um, actually, I just now realized that that interpretation is NSFW
23:12:13 <oerjan> it's frequently NSFW anyhow
23:12:21 <oerjan> \m/ \m/
23:12:21 <myndzi> `\o/
23:12:22 <myndzi> |
23:12:22 <myndzi> /`\
23:12:22 <myndzi> (_| |_)
23:12:32 -!- charlls has quit (Quit: Saliendo).
23:13:13 <fizzie> Can you spread the \m/s out further away and have it spread its hands without limit?
23:13:38 <oerjan> testing \m/ \m/
23:13:41 <oerjan> nope
23:13:43 <fizzie> Aw.
23:14:45 <Zuu> I like how his feet and hands are several times larger than his head
23:14:59 <Sgeo> Those are chains
23:15:19 <Zuu> eh?
23:15:31 <Sgeo> At least, to me, they're "chain-y"
23:15:39 <oerjan> Sgeo: your _mind_ is NSFW
23:15:51 <Sgeo> Oh, the ms are hands, aren't they
23:16:00 <fizzie> Therefore: remember to leave your mind when going to work.
23:16:05 <oerjan> so i used to think
23:17:12 -!- elliottcable has joined.
23:17:18 <elliottcable> god, it’s been a while
23:17:20 <elliottcable> ’sup peeps?
23:17:24 <fizzie> I'd have assumed that \m/ is that hand sign, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corna you know.
23:17:46 <oerjan> elliottcable: lots of life here recently
23:17:51 <oerjan> game of life, that is
23:17:52 <elliottcable> no kidding
23:17:57 <elliottcable> wasn’t it like 5 people last time I was in here?
23:18:10 <oerjan> O_o
23:18:34 <oerjan> that would have had to be before i joined, and i vaguely thought i'd seen you before...
23:18:45 <oerjan> (2006)
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23:34:16 <AnMaster> oh elliottcable != ehird? Just same first name XD
23:35:31 <ais523> nah, it's ec, ehird's worst enemy
23:35:44 <oerjan> evil twin, possibly
23:35:47 <ais523> good to see you back, anyway
23:35:51 <oerjan> no wait, good twin, obviously
23:36:17 <AnMaster> oerjan, XD
23:36:46 <AnMaster> ais523, are they really enemies?
23:36:52 <ais523> worse than you and ehird
23:36:56 <ais523> or so I'm told
23:36:58 <AnMaster> ais523, impressive
23:40:10 -!- augur has joined.
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23:47:48 -!- Mathnerd314_ has changed nick to Mathnerd314.
23:53:22 -!- andares has joined.
23:53:35 <andares> Hey, how do you copy a value in brainfuck?
23:53:39 <andares> I'm having trouble figuring it out.
23:54:04 <pikhq> From p[0] to p[1]? [>+<-]
23:54:15 <andares> pikhq, copy, as in non-destructively.
23:54:50 <andares> I'm trying to write a brainfuck program to print out a value in ascii (base 10).
23:54:53 <pikhq> Oh, copy. p[0] to p[1] using p[2] as a temporary cell: [>+>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]
23:55:10 <andares> pikhq, thanks!
23:55:18 <andares> Oh, that's simple.
23:55:32 <pikhq> Also, the Brainfuck algorithms page on the Esolangs wiki is awesome.
23:55:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:55:55 <andares> Cooool.
23:56:09 <pikhq> I seem to recall that I've stuck everything on there but the array stuff as PEBBLE's standard library.
23:56:15 -!- augur has joined.
23:56:43 <Sgeo> When is PEBBLE receiving PSOX integration?
23:56:47 <andares> heh.
23:56:54 <andares> Someone should play code golf with brainfuck.
23:57:18 <AnMaster> anagolf has bf doesn't it?
23:57:38 <pikhq> Sgeo: Too lazy.
23:57:46 <pikhq> andares: Done several times. :)
23:57:49 <andares> :p
23:58:03 <AnMaster> andares, iirc http://golf.shinh.org/ has brainfuck
23:58:24 <andares> ah fun.
23:58:27 <pikhq> Hmm. Perhaps I should make this Brainfuck-to-assembly compiler into a Brainfuck-to-machine-code compiler and port to Brainfuck.
23:59:15 <AnMaster> pikhq, better: write llvm bindings for brainfuck ;P
23:59:16 <AnMaster> somehow
23:59:22 <pikhq> AnMaster: Bah.
23:59:40 <AnMaster> pikhq, well I guess PSOX with llvm bindings would work
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