←2010-05-19 2010-05-20 2010-05-21→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:02:03 <oerjan> Aquaria is a computer game, i think
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00:02:42 <sdorand2> my brain hurts lol
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00:03:13 <oerjan> i'm afraid this channel doesn't help with _that_
00:04:40 <sdorand2> no what?
00:04:42 <sdorand2> now what?
00:04:46 <oerjan> sdorand2: you're comments are rather vague, are you a bot?
00:04:49 <oerjan> *your
00:05:15 <sdorand2> not that i'm aware of but perhaps you are as are all underlying atoms and subatomic particles
00:05:41 <oerjan> could be
00:06:04 <oerjan> we sometimes discuss the simulation argument here
00:06:05 <sdorand2> i do not feel like a bot
00:06:31 <sdorand2> i went on what i might call a digital archaeology hunt today
00:06:38 <sdorand2> but in the "real" world
00:06:56 <sdorand2> if the world is "real" (in theory)
00:07:24 <sdorand2> i think it might be easy to find out.....
00:07:39 <sdorand2> if one could access ever supercomputer on the planet, every institution, government, etc....
00:07:40 <oerjan> well if everything is a simulation, then there doesn't necessarily exist anything _less_ real than this world
00:07:41 <sdorand2> every book...
00:07:50 <sdorand2> every code.... ISO, protocol, language, etc
00:07:55 <sdorand2> symbol...
00:07:56 <sdorand2> etc
00:08:05 <sdorand2> and build a picture...
00:08:16 <sdorand2> though this of course would require insane computing power....
00:08:24 <sdorand2> chains of events....
00:08:26 <sdorand2> causality
00:08:28 <sdorand2> reverse causality
00:08:29 <sdorand2> wrappers
00:08:38 <sdorand2> time travel
00:08:39 <sdorand2> etc
00:09:34 <sdorand2> perhaps there are gateways between worlds....
00:09:44 <sdorand2> between levels of complexity....
00:09:49 <sdorand2> where the rules are different
00:10:03 <sdorand2> perhaps there are 231 gateways
00:10:13 <sdorand2> perhaps only 211 per wikipedia
00:10:32 <oerjan> these aren't actually new ideas - science fiction and fantasy writes about such
00:10:39 <sdorand2> indeed
00:10:52 <sdorand2> i've also considered the possibility of those worlds...
00:10:57 <sdorand2> and how they work at subatomic levels
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00:11:14 <sdorand2> and also from a psychological point of view from an individual to a civilization....
00:11:32 <sdorand2> utlimately it all seems to have some common laws..... at least as far as "human" minds are concerned
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00:12:06 <sdorand2> but perhaps human experience also exists in parallel with other dimensions that they can not appreciate unless they have access to them
00:12:34 <oerjan> that _could_ be just a lack of imagination, though
00:12:46 <sdorand2> and perhaps it all boils down to code.... fine structured infinite constants
00:13:17 <sdorand2> someone knows
00:13:29 <sdorand2> all i know is that i'm here
00:14:38 <sdorand2> one would think however that at some point the notion of "meaning" becomes watered down...
00:14:52 <sdorand2> irregardless of universe, multiverse, timeline, dimension, etc
00:15:09 <oerjan> mhm
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00:22:15 <sdorand2> sanity is waning
00:24:09 <sdorand2> what's interesting is a few domains on the internet that do not appear to have any whois information associated with them
00:25:36 <sdorand2> i'm not sure if someone/thing is trying to teach me to code/uncode, count, decompile the universe, compile the universe, perfect the universe, hack the universe, or what
00:26:08 <Sgeo> uncode?
00:28:00 <sdorand2> we all make words don't we?
00:28:38 <oerjan> there are philosophies that say words are a deceptive way of understanding the world
00:29:17 <sdorand2> agreed..
00:29:32 <sdorand2> sometimes i think people talk too much
00:29:43 <sdorand2> yip yip yip yip.... about nothing...
00:29:45 <sdorand2> football.....
00:29:46 <sdorand2> shopping...
00:29:50 <sdorand2> the weather..
00:29:52 <sdorand2> eh
00:30:01 <sdorand2> hence my extreme introversion
00:30:06 <sdorand2> (in general)
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00:30:55 <sdorand2> Tell Stephen Wolfram and George Lucas I said hi
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00:31:11 <oerjan> heh i'd be surprised if they come here
00:32:05 <sdorand2> who is on the wire of my mind?
00:32:38 <oerjan> if i am, i don't know it
00:32:44 <sdorand2> who is dumping, analyzing, extrapolating, and meme hashing my thought processes?
00:33:14 <sdorand2> who is modifying the angles by which my dna is assembled?
00:33:45 <sdorand2> is it not possible to model billions upon billions of human populations across a multitude of various timelines?
00:34:09 <sdorand2> with the smallest differences in every possible structure?
00:35:46 <oerjan> only if one has no ethics
00:38:54 <sdorand2> now that is an interesting point....
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00:39:24 <sdorand2> if this is in fact a machine, and that is what is being done....
00:39:31 <sdorand2> then one could question the ethics of our creators....
00:39:58 <sdorand2> if they are part of the same construct and it is all interconnected.... perhaps no one is ultimately to blame....
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00:40:26 <sdorand2> i have considered the possibilities...
00:40:38 <sdorand2> and there are certainly a multitude of philosophical concerns...
00:41:05 <sdorand2> yet when one acts within life, can not the butterfly effect end up somehow causing the same issues eventually?
00:41:53 <sdorand2> i think continuance of existence is a good thing
00:42:03 <sdorand2> however, when we have such limited knowledge.....
00:42:10 <sdorand2> how can anyone truly know what they are doing?
00:42:36 <sdorand2> unless one has access to a higher power of guidance somehow....
00:43:06 <sdorand2> and what if ultimately good and evil are simply part of the same construct and necessary for the existence of everything?
00:43:30 <sdorand2> I would think however that things should be weighted towards the good
00:43:43 <sdorand2> or perhaps there is megaversal utopia
00:43:56 <sdorand2> which in essence is a boat in a bottle.....
00:44:12 <sdorand2> and the doors are all shut behind them on the way into the final utopia...
00:44:19 <sdorand2> no one might ever possibly be able to know...
00:44:45 <sdorand2> i fancy the kabbalah as a super computing construct
00:45:00 <sdorand2> perhaps entities fall into or are weighted towards the various "buckets"
00:45:22 <sdorand2> perhaps some entities fit in all of the "buckets" in a even and distributed manner....
00:50:12 <pikhq> Is this here sdorand2 an esoteric programmer or just into esotericism? It's actually hard to tell.
00:50:15 <pikhq> :P
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00:50:50 <sdorand2> I do have a CS degree
00:51:04 <sdorand2> funny thing is I can't code for shit, failed calculus at least three times...
00:51:28 <sdorand2> but perhaps my biology is such that i see things in the fashion that I do...
00:51:42 <sdorand2> not that I can't improve myself...
00:51:59 <sdorand2> but that's a hard thing to debate given the lack of full knowledge..
00:52:14 <sdorand2> considering I can barely write *decent* solid code....
00:52:43 <sdorand2> programming in esoteric languages is likely not my cup of tea..... could I understand it and do so.... perhaps...
00:53:21 <sdorand2> but it is interesting how infinitary lambda calculus parallels various indian and buddhist texts
00:53:34 <sdorand2> and its all essentially a code..... extrapolated over time and space....
00:53:49 <sdorand2> which was somehow seeded and/or multiseeded throughout the universe or megaverse...
00:53:58 <sdorand2> the extents of the data however is quite horrific
00:56:12 <sdorand2> altair is interesting
00:56:31 <sdorand2> i pretty much just debugged google, youtube and wikipedia
00:56:32 <pikhq> How much did you code during your CS degree?
00:56:48 <sdorand2> autologic is interesting
00:56:56 <sdorand2> CRGreathouse is interesting
00:57:08 <sdorand2> OEIS is interesting
00:57:45 <sdorand2> hoor-pa-kraat
00:57:46 <sdorand2> is interesting
00:58:05 <sdorand2> sao tome
00:58:09 <sdorand2> 93beast
00:58:11 <sdorand2> enom
00:58:26 <sdorand2> hyperworks
00:58:44 <sdorand2> JPL
00:58:45 <sdorand2> NASA
00:58:52 <sdorand2> books that seem to exist just as I'm "accessing them"
00:59:17 <sdorand2> wolframalpha
00:59:24 <sdorand2> Leibniz
01:00:02 <sdorand2> some google antifraud company (can't think of the name right now)
01:01:08 <sdorand2> i barely coded anything
01:01:09 <sdorand2> in fact nothing
01:03:31 <pikhq> Well, no wonder you did so poorly.
01:03:40 <sdorand2> perhaps i transcend coding
01:04:22 <sdorand2> and if its ALL CODED..... (mostly) then what?
01:04:45 <sdorand2> if the code is in the individual atoms and the extents of ALL OF IT have basically been found.... then what?
01:05:29 <sdorand2> I do however have some handwritten theories on security
01:05:53 <sdorand2> but whether they are original or simply another part of the code shaking the bits out into reality in some fashion is beyond me
01:05:59 <sdorand2> and perhaps they already exist
01:08:30 <sdorand2> your assertion of my poor performance is unfounded
01:08:38 <sdorand2> and relative
01:08:56 <sdorand2> to your bias
01:08:58 <sdorand2> and perspective
01:09:11 <sdorand2> but perhaps you have access to constructs deeper than I
01:09:31 <sdorand2> or perhaps you don't
01:11:17 <sdorand2> infinitary and omega logic is interesting
01:11:36 <sdorand2> as are Malament-Hogarth spacetimes...
01:11:54 <sdorand2> perhaps there are even Quantum relativistic infinitary spacetime theories
01:15:11 <sdorand2> when do we increase the quantum relativistic var metalove?
01:16:37 <pikhq> ... Seriously man WTF?
01:17:08 <sdorand2> you tell me
01:17:26 <pikhq> Would that I could.
01:19:00 <sdorand2> perhaps the esoteric languages I perceive transcend those you are even aware of
01:19:15 <sdorand2> or perhaps I should just go and watch cartoons and drink a beer
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01:23:07 <sdorand2> what kind of AI is hooked up to "." on the internet?
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01:23:07 <sdorand2> or perhaps it is an AI that comes in wireless to the heads of all of humanity
01:23:07 <sdorand2> Tech Email:shadowarts@nonlogic.org
01:23:07 <sdorand2> Safari can’t open the page “http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/” because Safari can’t connect to the server “pikhq.nonlogic.org”.
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01:25:33 <sdorand2> is conficker a virus to be used for global awakening?
01:25:36 <sdorand2> perhaps
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01:29:15 <sdorand2> Bucky?
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02:23:33 <coppro> today was amusing in here
02:24:06 <cheater2> hello
02:24:17 <oerjan> jello
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02:39:14 <Gregor-P> Hellooooooo :)
02:40:02 <oerjan> I CAN'T HEAR YOU, TALK LOUDER
02:40:44 <Gregor-P> Feh!
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02:41:33 <oerjan> gregor the gullible
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03:26:20 <Mathnerd314> sdorand2 uses too many ...
03:27:01 <oerjan> well i try to balance it out by using none
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03:29:32 <Mathnerd314> then you should talk more
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03:31:22 <Mathnerd314> hmm, I need a language called Knife
03:33:21 <Mathnerd314> Ideas for constructing one?
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03:45:24 <coppro> Mathnerd314: it should involve cutting of something
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10:15:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Hello, ws.
10:17:44 <ws> hey :-)
10:22:21 <Phantom_Hoover> According to the BBC: "Facebook has more than 400 million users sharing 25 billion things a month"
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10:22:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Nice to know that the BBC are upholding their high statistical standards.
10:24:51 <Phantom_Hoover> And I *really* need to stop using that script that changes random words to "your mum".
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10:37:14 <cheater2> why do people wake me up in the morning
10:37:17 <cheater2> what have i done to them
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12:07:28 <oerjan> 02:37:14 <cheater2> why do people wake me up in the morning
12:07:28 <oerjan> 02:37:17 <cheater2> what have i done to them
12:07:46 <cheater2> yes
12:07:46 <oerjan> maybe you were genghis khan in a previous life.
12:07:50 <cheater2> have you got an answer
12:07:53 <cheater2> maybe i was
12:07:58 <cheater2> maybe i... STILL AM!!!! AHAHGAHGHAGH
12:08:04 <oerjan> whoops
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14:58:16 <Zuu> Did i mention i 'finished' my first 'esoteric' prog lang ?
15:00:01 <Zuu> I cant decide on what seems to be a very simple syntactical decision
15:00:42 <Zuu> basically, i have functions that return a value.. what i have now is: ! "return value"
15:01:06 <Zuu> doesnt feel right, i started out with: -> "return value"
15:01:48 <Zuu> That didnt feel right either, both seem annoying to write, and they doesnt blend in well :/
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15:09:04 <AnMaster> Zuu, what about:
15:09:09 <AnMaster> <- "return value"
15:09:21 <AnMaster> assuming that can be interpreted as "pointing out" of a function
15:09:28 <AnMaster> depends on the rest of the syntax of course
15:10:14 <AnMaster> in something like a "classical" syntax (think, C, LISP, ...) it could be interpreted that way. But of course in some esolangs that metaphor makes no sense
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15:17:33 <Zuu> AnMaster: good suggestion indeed, but as you mention, i think it will be confusing based on the other syntax i have :)
15:19:35 <Zuu> Actually it might be a quite silly question of me, since i dont say anything about the other syntax. Stupid me... I will make a description of the language soon, maybe then, there will be some qualified suggestions :P
15:20:37 * Zuu just needs to fix some implementation details, to prevent stack overflow on very small programs
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16:58:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Why is nothing happening‽
16:59:03 <Phantom_Hoover> I demand that something happen!
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17:13:44 <Sgeo_> Phantom_Hoover, you missed hilarity on Google I/O
17:14:01 <Sgeo_> Earlier, someone demoed using the microphone to make a call
17:14:25 <Sgeo_> Then, when it came time to try playing music, ... the call was still running
17:16:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Google I/O?
17:17:14 <Phantom_Hoover> I am confuzzled.
17:17:32 <Phantom_Hoover> I know not of these conferences.
17:18:54 <Sgeo_> http://www.youtube.com/GoogleDevelopers
17:18:58 <Sgeo_> It's about Android today
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17:22:36 <sdorand2> so i use too many what?
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18:16:40 <elliottcable> #esoteric
18:30:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Indeed.
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19:09:17 <subway24> hey guys
19:09:30 <subway24> im gay
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19:23:40 <fizzie> Incidentally! Do you happen to be aware of any JVM bytecode similarity measures? I have these six provided example programs, 44 student submissions, and approximately one hour of time to waste, so manual inspection is not feasible. (I did find few links with Google, but I don't think I saw anything very finished.)
19:25:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Run it and see what happens?
19:26:50 <fizzie> I've ran them all, but what I want is to find out if anyone of them has ripped most of their code from one of the provided examples.
19:26:57 <Phantom_Hoover> diff?
19:27:48 <fizzie> Eh, I guess I could diff, but I'd like a bit more sensible similarity measure. Something that's not defeated by changing variable names and newline placement.
19:28:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Look at the code with a hex editor and check for obvious similarities?
19:28:39 <impomatic> I've connected via telnet to a HP3000 system. Does anyone know how I can download a file?
19:29:07 <Phantom_Hoover> If my fellow students in my computing class could rip off example programs I'd hold much more respect for them than I do now...
19:29:16 <fizzie> Possibly I could ran some diffs on the JVM disassembly. (I think that was approximately what one of the google-hits was doing.)
19:31:51 <Deewiant> Contact Brenda Baker, bsb@bell-labs.com, for information about licensing the software from Lucent Technologies.
19:34:30 <fizzie> Deewiant: How does that help me notice similarities?
19:34:52 <Deewiant> It's from the paper "Deducing Similarities in Java Sources from Bytecodes"
19:35:07 <fizzie> Ah. The title sounds somewhat familiar.
19:35:26 <Deewiant> It's four of the top ten results when I googled it
19:35:28 <fizzie> I need these ready by tomorrow. I hope Brenda's awake.
19:37:34 <fizzie> Well, okay, this one hasn't changed the variable names. The newline placement is changed, however.
19:38:04 <fizzie> (And for some reason there are spurious parentheses here and there.)
19:41:02 <Phantom_Hoover> In my computing class, you aren't even taught to indent your code...
19:44:42 <fizzie> It's a bit.. dubious to return to me code I've written myself. On the other hand, (a) this is not really a programming course, (b) using some from-the-web example code has been traditionally allowed, (c) the person has added sensible comments in my completely uncommented code, and (d) the report describes quite well what it's all about.
19:44:55 <fizzie> So I guess I'll have to let it slide. It just feels somehow sleazy still.
19:48:57 <fizzie> Speaking of copying, two out of four of the participants so far have copied the minimax pseudocode directly from the Wikipedia article, without citing it. (One of those two mentions the article in the "references" section; the other does not have a "references" section.)
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20:05:50 * oerjan finds those "Compensation for scam victims" spams slightly amusing
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20:06:28 <oerjan> at least they have the right intended target audience, yessir
20:09:03 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> I demand that something happen!
20:09:10 * oerjan swats Phantom_Hoover -----###
20:09:18 <oerjan> we aim to please
20:10:07 <oerjan> <sdorand2> so i use too many what?
20:10:22 <oerjan> ..., aka ellipses?
20:11:01 * oerjan wasn't the one who claimed that, anyhow
20:14:33 <Mathnerd314> yeah, that's what I said
20:14:50 <fizzie> Isn't it usually "she"?
20:15:42 <oerjan> that's what he said
20:16:56 <oerjan> fizzie: we are quite liberal here
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21:00:45 <impomatic> Grrr... I've spent the last two hours trying to download a file :-(
21:02:23 <Deewiant> Do, or do not. There is no try.
21:04:18 <fizzie> Do, or wnload.
21:06:39 <oerjan> impomatic: you mentioned something about telnet, so i assume this server does not have ssh?
21:07:07 <oerjan> is it a large file?
21:07:27 <impomatic> Not sure. I just can't figure the command to download it. Or even how to navigate to the file.
21:07:50 <oerjan> i don't recall telnet having a file download command anyway
21:07:58 <oerjan> um you cannot _find_ the file?
21:08:11 <oerjan> (i may just not know of it)
21:09:49 <oerjan> if the server has ssh, then my suggestion would be to use scp from your client machine
21:10:16 <impomatic> telnet: login = "HELLO USER.CSLXL" then navigate through the menus 1, 9, 6, 6
21:10:30 <impomatic> That's the package I want to download. However I can't view it and I can't find the file when I start the shell
21:10:50 <impomatic> The machine is a HP3000 running MPE
21:10:58 <oerjan> whatever that is.
21:11:30 <impomatic> Back in a minute, need to reboot.
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21:12:12 <Deewiant> I don't think my terminal likes the menus
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21:15:33 <Deewiant> impomatic: What can be done after 1,9,6,6
21:15:48 <impomatic> Nothing that I can see.
21:16:00 <Deewiant> I can make out little of the screen, it's not compatible with my terminal
21:16:04 <impomatic> MPE enters the shell, but I can't navigate to the files.
21:16:57 <Deewiant> "You may download programs using Minisoft or Reflection. Some configuration may be needed." :-P
21:25:49 <impomatic> I completely killed my terminal program. I can't even reinstall it :-(
21:26:13 <oerjan> O_o
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21:53:16 <Phantom_Hoover> I find calculus to be increasingly shaky.
21:53:57 <Phantom_Hoover> The +c s are treated inconsistently.
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21:56:22 <oerjan> i'm sure there are some slipups there
21:57:10 <oerjan> but sometimes you _can_ leave out the +c, like if you need just one antiderivative
21:57:25 <oerjan> and it doesn't have to be general
21:58:01 <oerjan> (and one such case is when you use it immediately to calculate a definite integral)
21:59:03 <Sgeo_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHZzObQUgE8
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22:11:08 <Sgeo_> I understand the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTv6fFLVi4Q much better
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