←2010-09-14 2010-09-15 2010-09-16→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:00:21 <Gregor> :P
00:00:41 <alise> Gregor: I propose we sue Apple for funding.
00:01:50 <alise> I wish it was easy to put graphical Linux programs in a sandbox. Wait... we could!
00:02:31 <alise> Y'see, what I'm thinking here now is: You put an apt:// link on a page, and voila! Clicking it "downloads" (installs with the installed-GC thing) and opens it in a total sandbox.
00:02:47 <alise> Because really all it needs to be able to do is access your ~ based on a file open/close dialogue...
00:04:10 -!- wareya_ has joined.
00:04:12 <alise> * Topic for #slate is: The Slate programming language | http://code.google.com/p/slate-language http://www.slatelanguage.org http://github.com/briantrice/slate-language http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/slate/
00:04:14 <alise> Curses!
00:04:22 <cpressey_> not another one
00:04:28 <alise> cpressey_: Slate is old
00:04:29 <alise> TUNES old
00:04:30 <cpressey_> (i know, i know)
00:04:34 <alise> it was hosted on tunes until recently
00:04:39 <cpressey_> but only recently topicalized
00:04:45 <alise> topicalised how
00:04:53 <cpressey_> you started talking about it
00:04:56 <alise> it's prototype-based smalltalk (which is cool)
00:04:59 <alise> cpressey_: just now, you mean?
00:05:07 <cpressey_> just today as far as i'm aware
00:05:11 <alise> I was quoting it to curse them for stealing my channel name.
00:05:20 <alise> cpressey_: No, "Slate" is my tablet.
00:05:20 * Sgeo switches his loyalty and love to Slate
00:05:42 * cpressey_ smiles wanly
00:05:53 <cpressey_> (there's no emoticon for that)
00:05:57 <Sgeo> Wait, prototype-based Smalltalk? So, what's the difference between Slate and Self?
00:06:05 <alise> cpressey_: :douglasadams:
00:06:12 <cpressey_> Sgeo: 4,000 miles and a zebra
00:06:13 <alise> Sgeo: slate has more unicorns
00:06:23 <alise> also, it's different.
00:06:27 <cpressey_> alise: zebracorns
00:06:27 <alise> Sgeo: it has multimethods
00:06:31 <alise> i.e. methods aren't attached to the object
00:06:37 <alise> like CLOS
00:06:41 <Sgeo> Oooo
00:07:01 * Sgeo likes CLOS-like, but hasn't actually tried CLOS
00:07:09 <Sgeo> Just Factorness, which is apparently CLOS-like
00:07:56 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
00:07:56 <cpressey_> what comes next in this sequence: Thue, ///, ...
00:07:57 <alise> I think I hate your guts.
00:08:02 <alise> cpressey_: a donkey
00:08:03 <Sgeo> ..?
00:08:08 <alise> or:
00:08:15 <alise> a LED with no power supply
00:08:16 <cpressey_> alise: i ain't gonna implement no donkey in R though.
00:08:25 <alise> This is the statistics R, right?
00:08:30 <cpressey_> yes
00:08:35 <alise> Do it in E instead.
00:08:42 <cpressey_> wouter's E?
00:08:43 <alise> http://www.erights.org/
00:08:44 <alise> This E.
00:08:52 <alise> The capability-security language.
00:08:56 <alise> It's pretty cool.
00:09:04 <alise> <cpressey_> ANOTHER PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE
00:09:06 * Sgeo still wants Newspeak to mature
00:09:07 <alise> <alise> Fortran
00:09:08 <alise> <cpressey_> ANOTHER PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE
00:09:24 <cpressey_> alise: that e is boring
00:09:28 <alise> is not
00:09:35 <cpressey_> whatever
00:09:42 <alise> why have you become boring
00:09:57 <cpressey_> i have my reasons. wait what?
00:10:12 <alise> you're just whatevering anything without looking at it :P
00:10:19 <cpressey_> i've seen it before
00:10:41 <Sgeo> Not boring: Sgeo going insane.
00:10:48 <Sgeo> Actually, wait, that is rather boring
00:11:03 <alise> haha they call e users elang-ers
00:11:06 <alise> the erlang guys must hate them
00:12:33 <oerjan> now if we made a language named "er" ...
00:12:44 -!- cpressey_ has quit (Quit: is boring now and thus doesn't belong here.).
00:13:08 <alise> i think cpressey may be a bit pissed off.
00:13:13 <alise> just a hunch though
00:15:09 <alise> ais523: quick, generate an insane idea
00:17:09 <alise> Gregor: pikhq: Does the Device work on you?
00:17:14 <alise> It's very rusty...
00:17:22 <oerjan> alise: hey you didn't notice my insane idea
00:17:28 <alise> oerjan: what was it
00:17:32 <oerjan> it could be a cross of E and R
00:17:42 <oerjan> <oerjan> now if we made a language named "er" ...
00:17:44 <alise> that's not insane, you're slipping
00:18:01 * oerjan wails
00:18:08 <oerjan> YOU MEAN
00:22:05 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:22:34 <ais523> alise: a program that automatically creates a 3D world to explore given only a text adventure as input
00:23:05 <alise> ais523: noted. wait, on the Slate?
00:23:17 <ais523> you asked for an insane idea
00:23:21 <alise> fair enough
00:23:22 <alise> done
00:23:23 <nooga> my head just exploded
00:23:39 <ais523> for a Slate, it would be more useful getting it to automatically illustrate fiction books
00:23:44 <ais523> as reading is a common use for a tablet PC
00:23:55 <alise> ahh i dunno with a regular display that's not so good :P
00:24:06 <alise> I'd use one of those Pixel Qi displays, but... they're not really ready yet.
00:29:48 <alise> A realistic portrayal of AI! http://cowbirdsinlove.com/906
00:30:16 <alise> (Also notable for being the first ever instance of the line "Suck it, Werner Heisenberg!".)
00:30:34 <Slereah> alise : heheheh
00:30:41 <alise> (Note: Has title text)
00:34:14 <Slereah> Every webcomic does nowadays
00:34:38 <alise> Wow, CBIL used to have terrible art.
00:35:15 <alise> (http://cowbirdsinlove.com/5)
00:35:34 <alise> (That's actually better art than in 1-4 :P)
00:35:36 <oerjan> Slereah: not IWC
00:35:52 <alise> oerjan: if you can call that a WEBCOMIC
00:36:02 <oerjan> or darths & droids
00:42:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:43:35 -!- ais523 has joined.
00:45:21 <alise> wb ais523
01:03:39 <alise> There is an Inspector Gadget Minus Gadget
01:03:43 <alise> Amazing
01:22:46 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:28:05 <Gregor> alise: Is it just Penny (was that her name?) solving all the crimes/mysteries for no apparent reason?
01:28:13 <alise> Yes
01:28:20 <alise> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6MR14mFtIw
01:28:28 <alise> It flows perfectly
01:29:58 <pikhq> Sure enough.
01:30:23 <pikhq> "Where's Uncle Gadget" indeed.
01:32:07 <Gregor> Hahaha
01:32:20 <Gregor> I figured they'd remove all references to him.
01:32:27 <Gregor> But just all scenes with him.
01:32:31 <Gregor> That's kinda interesting :P
01:34:47 <Gregor> So he's taking the jet, which presumably means he already killed Gadget, and we just didn't see those scenes.
01:34:53 <Gregor> (At 3:45)
01:35:11 <Gregor> Penny seems unconcerned.
01:36:01 <alise> <Gregor> I figured they'd remove all references to him.
01:36:01 <alise> <Gregor> But just all scenes with him.
01:36:02 <alise> wat
01:36:13 <alise> ah right
01:36:25 <alise> Goodnight.
01:36:28 <alise> Bye.
01:36:30 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:37:51 <Gregor> "Uncle Gadget will never find us here!"
01:37:54 <Gregor> Oh, she's in denial.
01:37:55 <Gregor> Got it.
01:38:13 <pikhq> :D
01:40:10 <Gregor> "Sounds like everything's back to normal" WHERE IS THE PILOT FOR YOUR PLANE
01:40:54 <Gregor> It is amazing how irrelevant Gadget is :P
01:41:41 <Gregor> There are probably strictly MORE idiosyncrasies in the normal version.
01:42:27 <pikhq> Gadget serves to be the namesake.
01:42:35 <pikhq> Crappy job, really.
01:53:37 <pikhq> o.O
01:53:44 <pikhq> There's *tobacco* subsidies in the US.
01:53:49 <pikhq> In addition to tobacco taxes.
01:54:13 <pikhq> *We simultaneously tax and subsidise tobacco*.
01:56:22 <oerjan> although i don't know that there is tobacco grown in norway, i'm pretty sure similar stuff applies to most of our farming
01:58:44 <oerjan> and the EU has the CAP
02:00:57 <oerjan> alcohol might be a better example for us, i'm sure we both make it and (even more sure) tax it heavily
02:01:09 <oerjan> s/us/norway/
02:02:19 <oerjan> pikhq: btw you asked the other day if norwegian was hard to learn. i forgot about the bokmål/nynorsk/dialects complications
02:03:05 <oerjan> although you'd normally only learn to _use_ bokmål specifically, you'd want to learn to understand the rest...
02:03:34 <pikhq> oerjan: Do you have the government *paying people* to make alcohol?
02:04:27 <oerjan> pikhq: maybe not for making the alcohol but probably for growing the plants to make it
02:05:55 <oerjan> i'd _guess_ there are no _specific_ alcohol subsidies.
02:09:06 <pikhq> We directly pay people to grow tobacco *explicitly*. And then tax the tobacco when it's sold.
02:09:25 <oerjan> right
02:09:27 <pikhq> Oh, and the payment for the tobacco subsidy comes out of the tobacco tax.
02:13:27 <Gregor> So basically, the government IS the tobacco industry.
02:23:24 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner]).
02:51:19 <Sgeo> Why doesn't emacs in Perl mode have any C-c bindings?
02:54:33 <Sgeo> Can someone please explain Perl
02:54:43 <Sgeo> Perl's weird behavior upon doing modulo 1?
02:54:47 <Gregor> Is 'ua' in "actually" a diaeresis?
02:55:28 <oerjan> what weird behavior
02:56:02 <Sgeo> print (5 % 1);
02:56:03 <Sgeo> 0[
02:56:10 <Sgeo> Erm, that [ was just my prompt
02:56:20 <Sgeo> Oh, wai.. no
02:56:25 <Sgeo> Oh, duh
02:56:28 * Sgeo facepalms
02:56:35 * oerjan assumes you figured it out
02:57:11 <Sgeo> I cannot rightly comprehend the confusion of ideas that led me to believe that doing something modulo 1 would simply round the something
02:57:56 <oerjan> what a load of babbage
02:58:03 <pikhq> Gregor: I doubt it.
02:59:06 <Gregor> pikhq: I guess I'm trying to figure out if 'ua' is a diphthong :P
02:59:12 <pikhq> I think it is.
02:59:26 <Gregor> Well if it is, then actUAlly is a diaeresis!
02:59:34 <oerjan> Gregor: this non-native speaker guesses it depends on dialect, like everything else
02:59:38 <Gregor> Or maybe just how I pronounce it?
02:59:42 <Gregor> oerjan: Yuh >_<
02:59:49 <pikhq> oerjan: Quite true.
03:00:01 <pikhq> English has a lot of variation in the spoken language.
03:00:12 <pikhq> I don't know how it compares to other languages in that regard.
03:00:22 <Gregor> I guess a lot of people just pronounce it like "actchally"
03:00:45 <pikhq> (*ignoring* things like "Chinese" which are a fucking language *family*, last mutually intelligible 2000 years ago)
03:02:42 <oerjan> well i can say that norwegian has a bit as well :P
03:03:49 <pikhq> oerjan: Actually, some argue that you've merely got a single Scandinavian language. :P
03:04:19 <oerjan> that's when we invade them with our army and navy
03:04:38 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
03:04:56 <oerjan> or at least look sternly at them
03:05:09 * Sgeo titles his homework assignment with the thing about Perl in the topic
03:32:33 -!- cal153 has joined.
03:47:10 -!- __s has joined.
03:49:02 <Sgeo> Hi __s
03:49:10 <__s> Hello
03:49:35 <Sgeo> Are you a regular here? If not, what do you believe this channel is about?
03:49:41 <__s> It's odd seeing a discussion of one's program without their presence
03:49:45 <Sgeo> Ah
03:49:55 <__s> I believe this discussion is about esoteric programming languages
03:50:18 <Sgeo> Ok, just wanted to be sure. Some people come here thinking that it's about ... spiritual stuff.. esoterica?
03:50:23 <__s> Seems the two I recognize from what I read previous is Deewiant and pikhq
03:50:24 <Sgeo> What program?
03:50:47 <__s> http://github.com/serprex/Befunge
03:50:56 <__s> Finally fixed it
03:51:12 <__s> Discussions I found were from before I had it running Wumpus even
03:51:48 <__s> Reading made me wish I'd heard some things prior
03:52:06 <__s> I'm about to test with dimensions of powers of two
03:52:30 <__s> But overall I figure I should inquire to the details of what's been done with Befunge and jits so far
03:53:04 * Sgeo is probably the wrong person to ask
03:53:15 <__s> Right now I have an idea that would lack an optimizer. An array of commands' assembly to glue together
03:53:34 <__s> I'm aware there's an LLVM attempt, but LLVM is rather heavy to what should be rather light weight
03:53:45 <__s> Unladden swallow is quite amusing
03:54:53 <oerjan> __s: i recall fizzie had a jit befunge under construction
03:55:24 <__s> But he's sticking to the habit of keeping a program under wraps until it's done?
03:55:47 <__s> Programs are never done, release broken code and keep releasing broken code. Sooner or later people will think it works
03:55:54 <oerjan> i don't know _that_, but last i heard it still was pretty buggy
03:56:31 <__s> I've been finding it rather hard to find fast interpreters
03:56:34 <oerjan> also for all i know he _has_ put it on the web, i just don't remember
03:56:51 <__s> fizzie: jit befunge where?
03:57:18 <oerjan> hm i guess fizzie's jit is the llvm attempt you mention
03:58:06 <__s> How was the performance, bugs aside?
03:58:13 <__s> Performance including memory use
03:58:27 <oerjan> i don't remember
04:00:20 <__s> Is there a resource better than the rather scarce esolang where I can find fast Befunge interpreters and benchmarks?
04:00:56 <oerjan> not that i know, unless it's linked there
04:01:09 * oerjan is definitely not a befunge expert
04:02:06 <oerjan> i only recall fizzie's jit because it was discussed in this channel
04:03:05 <ais523> __s: the mycology website's decent for compliance testing
04:03:15 <ais523> and it tends to touch on those other issues tangentially as a resut
04:03:18 <ais523> *result
04:03:22 <__s> Mycology was good for 98
04:03:53 <ais523> people have mostly abandoned 93 except for fun, it's mostly limited
04:04:02 <ais523> well, 98 is fun too, but in a different way
04:04:28 <__s> First I want to go as far as I can with 93
04:04:40 * pikhq groans
04:04:46 <pikhq> "AOL working with Jonas Brothers to 'redesign the Internet'"
04:04:57 <ais523> hmm
04:04:58 <oerjan> i also recall mycology has a 93 part but the interpreter needs to load only the 80 x 25 top part
04:05:04 <pikhq> If this actually happens and takes off, I am beginning a genocide program.
04:05:05 <ais523> well, interps that do 98 quickly tend to do 93 quickly
04:05:16 <__s> Mycology's 93 test was rather short
04:05:25 <ais523> cfunge and ccbi are both pretty good
04:05:35 <ais523> but there isn't so much you can fit into a -93 program, at least in terms of messages
04:05:38 <ais523> nor so much you can test
04:05:38 <__s> How much is 98 a superset of 93?
04:05:44 <ais523> almost exactly
04:05:44 <pikhq> __s: Not much.
04:06:00 <ais523> well, as in 93 programs tend to work unchanged in 98
04:06:07 <ais523> unless they rely on weird undocumented behaviour
04:06:12 <ais523> the main difference is the behaviour of whitespace in strings
04:06:13 <pikhq> Which is much of Befunge.
04:06:21 <pikhq> Well. '93.
04:06:24 <ais523> well, you'd be a fool to /rely/ on it
04:06:49 <pikhq> It's not specified what the memory space is filled with.
04:07:22 <ais523> in practice, spaces or zeros
04:07:27 <ais523> but you can always write it by hand to make sure
04:07:34 <ais523> or just fill the entire 80x25 area in the initial progra
04:07:35 <ais523> *program
04:08:40 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
04:09:02 <__s> With 93 I was thinking of an assembly solution that would work by having all instructions be the same size
04:09:47 <__s> I'm unsure how much it'd raise itself over a threaded interpreter
04:09:57 <__s> It'd be able to gain speed in one direction
04:10:18 * pikhq has finally broken down and gotten a Facebook account... Thing.
04:10:42 <Sgeo> Mycology has -93 sup.. oh
04:12:01 <__s> pikhq: Where would I find your threaded Befunge interpreter?
04:12:13 <pikhq> __s: Uh. Lemme pastebin.
04:12:35 <pikhq> I need to get a website.
04:12:39 <pikhq> http://sprunge.us/XdXE
04:14:01 <Gregor> pikhq: You need to get ..
04:14:03 <Gregor> A HACKIKI
04:14:12 <Sgeo> pikhq, you're not in the Navy, are you?
04:14:13 <__s> I didn't use rand because it's rather meh
04:14:24 <pikhq> Sgeo: No.
04:14:37 <pikhq> Sgeo: Why would you ask, anyways?
04:14:44 <Gregor> pikhq: HEY I KNOW U
04:14:45 <__s> I like your method of setting up the lookup table
04:14:50 <pikhq> Gregor: ZOMG I KNOW
04:15:17 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
04:15:36 <Sgeo> pikhq, because there's someone with your name on Facebook who's in the Navy
04:16:39 <Sgeo> Oh, misremembered your name
04:17:24 <Gregor> And of course right now, as per almost never, my Facebook photo isn't a real picture :P
04:17:27 <__s> Seems mine's faster on my adder benchmark. But of course that's flawed, since that's what I optimized for. What benchmark do you use?
04:17:39 <ais523> Gregor: amusing, given how many real pictures of you there are around the internet
04:18:14 <pikhq> Sgeo: Josiah Worcester.
04:18:23 <Sgeo> Found you via Gregor's page
04:18:40 <pikhq> ais523: Yes, but the Gregor *artist* page does have a real picture.
04:18:57 <Gregor> True.
04:19:02 * Sgeo wonders if he should maybe allow online persons to see tagged pictures of me
04:19:08 <Sgeo> What's the worst that could happen?
04:19:10 <Gregor> ais523: http://codu.org/tmp/existentialism.png this is my current FB picture :P
04:20:09 <pikhq> Sgeo: Gah, I ignored the friend request and then realised it was you.
04:20:25 <pikhq> "Have I *ever* met this guy? No." "... Oh, Sgeo. Fuck."
04:21:48 * Sgeo should get around to making a decision on the 80 or so pending friend requests
04:22:18 <pikhq> :P
04:22:38 <Sgeo> Hmm
04:22:47 <Sgeo> You're less privacy-conscious than I?
04:22:48 <__s> Did you experiment with having x,y be a single value?
04:22:52 * Sgeo can't spell today
04:23:05 <Sgeo> Actually, I can: t o d a y
04:23:24 <pikhq> Sgeo: Dude, I practically run around going "I'm Josiah 'pikhq' Worcester, and I live in Colorado" online.
04:23:30 <pikhq> See, like that!
04:23:41 <Sgeo> pikhq, how often do you give out your address online?
04:23:44 <Gregor> pikhq: Dood, I'm more exhibitionist than you!
04:23:52 <Gregor> <-- MY NAME
04:23:55 <pikhq> Sgeo: Not that often.
04:24:11 <__s> Somebody stated their address to me one time
04:24:11 <pikhq> Gregor: Yeahyeahyeah.
04:24:17 <__s> I showed up the next day
04:24:24 <__s> They had me out the door within half an hour
04:24:33 <Gregor> __s: I feel that pikhq ought to be responding to you, so I will because I don't really do Befunge :P
04:24:57 <Gregor> __s: Was this just like "My address is <X> if you want to send me a postcard" and then you showed up?
04:25:23 <__s> Was an MSN contact, person stated their address since they were having a party
04:25:26 <Sgeo> I don't do esolangs that often, except for PSOX which isn't an esolang
04:25:29 <pikhq> __s: x,y as a single value? No, I didn't really mess with it much.
04:26:07 <Sgeo> Although Mixfix will be a beautifully readable language that combines prefix, infix, and postfix, and is just incredibly awesome
04:26:15 <Sgeo> As long as you don't mind your brain exploding
04:26:17 <__s> Was curious, since it's one of the more arbitrary choices we diverged on
04:26:56 <__s> Sgeo: Inspired by shuffling yard fun when you don't sanitize input?
04:27:16 <Sgeo> shuffling yard?
04:27:44 <Sgeo> Inspired by me thinking that "somequestion?" is nice as postfix, but postfix if gives me headaches. And also wondering about doing prefix without parens
04:27:48 <__s> Friend of mine implemented a shuffling yard infix parser, it ended up also accepting postfix
04:28:25 <__s> I'm wishing there was a language that would let infix use space parans
04:28:39 <__s> a+b * c -> (a+b)*c
04:29:04 <Sgeo> Doesn't Falcon (hated be the language) do that?
04:29:15 <__s> I'ven't seen this Falcon
04:29:37 * Sgeo may be mistaken
04:29:43 <Sgeo> But I'm certain I've seen it somewhere
04:29:51 <Sgeo> Maybe some dead language loved by alise
04:30:32 <Sgeo> http://www.falconpl.org/ WARNING: NOT SAFE FOR SANITY
04:30:59 <Sgeo> Monads are .. somehow hard-coded in
04:31:05 <__s> It makes me feel like it is trying to sell something too much
04:31:09 <Sgeo> There's a special bit, I think. I don't really know the details
04:32:43 <Sgeo> I could _swear_ I've seen the feature you're asking for before though
04:34:53 <pikhq> Aaand someone running for Congress in the US (as a Republican) wants to *ban masturbation*.
04:35:15 <pikhq> ... And believes her enemies hide in shrubs.
04:35:26 <wareya_> >USA
04:35:32 <wareya_> >Republican congress candidates
04:35:38 <wareya_> Hahahahahahaha, that's funny!
04:35:54 <pikhq> How is it that one of the two major parties here is not merely bad but *ACTUALLY CRAZY*?
04:36:12 <wareya_> They're both crazy.
04:36:17 <wareya_> The democrats are just less crazy.
04:36:37 <pikhq> Oh, see, the Democrats are (mostly) just assholes.
04:36:38 <wareya_> Also, a vast majority of the land in america is covered by white trash.
04:36:47 <wareya_> the USA at least.
04:36:51 <pikhq> The Republicans are *literally crazy*.
04:37:04 <pikhq> And yes, that's true. The vast majority of the *land* is unsettled.
04:37:05 <wareya_> Don't get me wrong, the democrats are too.
04:37:31 <wareya_> The republicans are the bright white that makes the gray of the democrats look like black.
04:37:39 <pikhq> When was the last time a Democrat claimed his enemies were literally hiding in the bushes?
04:38:03 <wareya_> I dunno, I don't pay attention to regional politics all over the country.
04:38:09 <pikhq> I'm not saying "the Republicans are doing some ignorant things". I am saying that they have ceased to have any grip on sanity.
04:38:10 <__s> Falcon seems a lot like Python with Ruby block syntax with the creator's eccentricities all over. I thought they'd gone for Python's going for a print function, then figured the whole > >> syntax
04:38:19 <pikhq> s/sanity/reality/
04:39:03 <wareya_> "the Republicans" have to sensualize everything to make other republicans vote for them.
04:39:13 <wareya_> White trash isn't smart enough to care about actual politics.
04:39:16 <Sgeo> Is it just me, or do the only two near-term options for healthcare both suck?
04:39:36 <Sgeo> Leave HCR as is (it's rather broken) or undo everything, going back to previous painful breakage?
04:39:45 <Sgeo> HCR is a good start that needs to be fixed
04:39:47 <Sgeo> imo
04:40:13 <pikhq> Sgeo: We can't have good healthcare. Industry wouldn't profit.
04:40:20 <wareya_> They should have just built on medicare.
04:43:27 <pikhq> wareya_: That would be sane.
04:43:35 <wareya_> >should
04:43:46 <pikhq> And the few sane and reasonable Congressmen did, in fact, propose that.
04:43:51 <pikhq> It was a 4 page bill.
04:43:56 <wareya_> Yeah.
04:44:04 <wareya_> Too bad out congress is insane.
04:44:07 <wareya_> our*
04:44:11 <__s> pikhq: I don't think US can feasibly get healthcare. They're jealous of us Canadians, but Canada's healthcare is having trouble keeping up with the population finally growing closer to 40M rather than 30M
04:45:19 <pikhq> __s: So, you think it will remain being the only developed nation without universal healthcare?
04:45:48 <pikhq> Presumably this has something to do with $1 trillion being an okay defense budget but heaven forbid a few billion go towards healthcare.
04:46:32 <__s> How well working are other nations' healthcare? It's a messy thing, pushed too much by all that altruism for people who can't prove themselves
04:46:38 <Sgeo> If I get sick, how difficult would it be to move to Canada?
04:46:45 <wareya_> SUPPORT YOUR TROOPS
04:47:15 <__s> I suppose that defense debt is something to deal with factor wise
04:47:30 <pikhq> __s: Our healthcare system is comparable with some third-world nations.
04:47:43 <pikhq> It is by far the worst of any developed nation.
04:47:57 <wareya_> Most third world nations have better healthcare than america
04:48:20 <wareya_> Except for Expensive Innovative Special procedures
04:48:24 <pikhq> Sgeo: Depends on a few things.
04:48:25 <__s> How much is it held back by legislation not allowing a competitive price to enter the market?
04:48:49 <pikhq> __s: Healthcare is inherently non-competitive in many situations.
04:49:11 <pikhq> (namely, emergency care. Which, incidentally, is the *only form of care many Americans get*.)
04:50:10 <pikhq> Also, most of the "not allowing a competitive price" thing is actually the *insurance companies*.
04:50:12 <__s> That's the problem with US in some ways. It's unsure whether to let business push or government, so it ends up being that the government tells business to push while constricting business from doing so
05:06:09 -!- calamari has joined.
05:06:13 -!- __s has quit (Quit: Page closed).
05:37:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
06:08:39 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
06:11:47 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
06:18:41 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
06:19:30 -!- Sgeo__ has joined.
06:22:58 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
06:47:06 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:53:10 -!- tombom has joined.
07:05:59 -!- FireFly has joined.
07:47:32 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
07:50:52 -!- relet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
07:57:47 -!- augur has joined.
07:59:33 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:07:52 -!- relet has joined.
08:10:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:10:57 -!- Quadrescence has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
08:11:38 -!- ais523 has joined.
08:12:51 -!- Quadrescence has joined.
08:16:24 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving).
08:17:32 -!- atrapado has joined.
08:51:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
08:55:37 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
08:59:45 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:32:58 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
09:54:53 <nooga> jij
10:41:03 -!- FireFly has joined.
10:46:20 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
11:21:57 -!- cal153 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
11:43:48 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
11:49:45 -!- Zuu has joined.
12:10:34 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: Welcome honored guest. I got the key you want! would you like onderves. of Yourself).
12:40:40 <cheater> hello sweethearts
12:59:42 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
13:22:59 -!- sftp has joined.
13:53:59 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
14:59:25 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
15:04:02 -!- relet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
15:04:17 -!- relet has joined.
15:08:31 -!- relet has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
15:16:48 -!- Sgeo has joined.
15:22:45 -!- oerjan has joined.
15:44:27 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
15:44:36 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Changing host).
15:44:36 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
15:48:30 -!- augur has joined.
15:54:43 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:55:18 -!- Sgeo has joined.
15:56:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
16:01:50 -!- augur_ has joined.
16:02:15 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:03:25 * Phantom_Hoover Facebookstalks Sgeo
16:03:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Meh, boring.
16:03:40 * Phantom_Hoover does other things.
16:03:56 * oerjan verbs Phantom_Hoover in a Phantom_Hoovering way
16:06:47 <fizzie> Verb some nouns there.
16:07:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Can I noun a few verbs while I'm at it?
16:08:06 -!- nooga has joined.
16:08:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:14:22 -!- SgeoN1 has joined.
16:14:34 <SgeoN1> My laptop fell
16:14:48 <SgeoN1> And now it's acting as if the HD is mostly dead
16:16:25 <SgeoN1> Mostly, though. It is successfully getting to the point where it asks which OS to boot into
16:17:18 <oerjan> SgeoN1: you appear to be cursed
16:17:35 <SgeoN1> Any chance of downloading a small, bootable OS to my phone?
16:17:50 -!- Flonk has joined.
16:18:17 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: As long as you make sure to maintain the delicate verb-noun balance.
16:20:50 <SgeoN1> I can't very well use a computer to make my phone be bootable usb
16:21:04 <Phantom_Hoover> SgeoN1, hmm.
16:21:27 <Phantom_Hoover> What kind of bandwidth and capacity to you have?
16:22:13 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:22:22 -!- SgeoN1 has joined.
16:22:46 <SgeoN1> Not much capacity, I am on wifi
16:22:57 <SgeoN1> You have an idea?
16:23:08 <fizzie> Also, no optical drives to boot from? Though I guess actually preparing boot media might be tricky if you don't have one handy.
16:23:09 <SgeoN1> I guess I can delete some stuff
16:23:26 <SgeoN1> I have an ancient computer at home
16:23:35 <SgeoN1> But I want to solve this in class
16:26:09 <Phantom_Hoover> SgeoN1, well, the Ubuntu live disk is ~700MB, so that's no good.
16:26:14 <fizzie> Getting the phone's USB mess-storage device bootable from the phone itself sounds untrivial, unless someone's already done a tool for that. Though I guess if it just exports a memory card directly you could dd a boot sector in.
16:27:00 <SgeoN1> Was hoping for DSL
16:27:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
16:28:07 <fizzie> But if it does something to make the memory card usable simultaneously from the phone and via USB, it might be that it fakes a device and filesystem over USB, and thusly might not be able to make it bootable.
16:28:39 <fizzie> Gah, awful weather out there, but I need to get home from this conference-place.
16:29:32 <SgeoN1> It's not simultaneously available
16:29:44 <SgeoN1> Last I checked
16:30:17 <fizzie> Then it sounds doable. I guess you have a dd on the phone?
16:32:35 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, the weather's lovely here...
16:32:43 <Phantom_Hoover> It's against the natural order!
16:35:53 <SgeoN1> Using a classmate's PC
16:36:00 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
16:39:44 <Phantom_Hoover> SgeoN1, are you on Windows?
16:40:13 <SgeoN1> Just finished with pendrive's instructions
16:41:08 <Phantom_Hoover> You need *instructions* for a *flash drive*?
16:43:28 <SgeoN1> It's not working
16:44:40 <Phantom_Hoover> What can you possibly need instructions for?
16:45:07 <SgeoN1> Avoiding erasing my SD card?
16:45:35 <Phantom_Hoover> And in any case, if you need instructions for a flash drive, you will never get it to work in a BIOS.
16:45:40 <SgeoN1> Also, what else could I have done from Windows?
16:45:56 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
16:46:46 -!- coppro has joined.
16:46:46 -!- coppro has quit (Changing host).
16:46:46 -!- coppro has joined.
16:48:42 <SgeoN1> Dear thingie that happens when I try using the installed Ubuntu: stop complaining about the nonMS os
16:49:37 <SgeoN1> I think a genuine dual-boot setup would have saved me here
16:51:57 <Phantom_Hoover> SgeoN1, so, what have you learnt today?
16:52:27 <SgeoN1> Don't drop computers?
16:52:55 <SgeoN1> Always have bootable media on hand?
16:53:37 <SgeoN1> Don't use the Windows based Ubuntu installer?
16:53:44 <Phantom_Hoover> That one.
16:54:54 <SgeoN1> I think there were times that it was helpful
16:56:31 <SgeoN1> What's the chance of actual physical damage?
16:56:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Medium, I should think.
16:58:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Don't you use Windows since AW doesn't have the decency to run on a nice OS?
16:58:45 <SgeoN1> Yes, partially
16:58:53 <Phantom_Hoover> There's a lesson in that, too.
17:00:35 <SgeoN1> What lesson?
17:02:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Don't let a single piece of software dictate your decisions to the extent that your computer can be made into a very expensive nightlight with a single drop.
17:02:38 <SgeoN1> I don't think even Windows can cause physical damage
17:04:00 <Phantom_Hoover> True. But you haven't even dual-booted properly.
17:04:38 <SgeoN1> I probably have an Ubuntu LiveCD lying around
17:04:58 <SgeoN1> And if not, I do have an old.computer with disk burning ability
17:05:52 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
17:07:36 <Phantom_Hoover> SgeoN1, why the hell did you use the Windows installer in the first place?
17:07:57 <SgeoN1> Good question
17:08:22 <Phantom_Hoover> I mean, it installs Ubuntu *in an image file on your Windows filesystem*.
17:08:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Words fail me.
17:08:59 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: That's still better than Slack's old umsdos installation.
17:09:17 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: For some values of "better" anyway.
17:09:30 <SgeoN1> Going off irc to save battery powe
17:10:26 <fizzie> That one installs to bazillion files in a directory on a FAT filesystem, with extra data (long filenames, permissions) in some hidden metadata files.
17:12:57 -!- augur has joined.
17:13:56 -!- nooga has joined.
17:14:43 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:15:37 -!- SgeoN1 has joined.
17:16:52 <fizzie> Given the intensity of rain here, I sure hope this poster tube is waterproof. It has this telescoping extensible design that I find suspicious.
17:21:09 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, is Finland one of those places where the weather is consistently interesting?
17:23:55 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:24:08 <fizzie> It's not proverbially bad, but I guess there's a moderate amount of variation.
17:25:21 <fizzie> This year's summer was uncommonly warm and sunny, but the autumn seems thus far normally wet.
17:26:36 -!- SgeoN2 has joined.
17:27:04 <fizzie> Whoops, this phone is about to run out of freshly squeezed orange juice. Maybe I'll stay quiet for the rest of the bus trip.
17:27:16 <SgeoN2> Some tech guy put my HD into some external reader thing, and the disk showed up as uninitialized
17:27:40 <fizzie> You hit it so hard the bits fell off.
17:28:20 <SgeoN2> Is this as terrible a sign as he implied?
17:28:41 <fizzie> It certainly is not a *good* sign.
17:29:47 <fizzie> Still, there are tools to extract files from byte soup even if partition and filesystem structures are gone.
17:30:37 <fizzie> Reading a full disk image out might be a good idea, assuming you have space for one somewhere.
17:33:20 <Phantom_Hoover> I assume that, given Wubi's idiotic installation system, your NTFS partition was corrupted and your Ubuntu system fell with it.
17:34:06 * Phantom_Hoover → stuff
17:35:25 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
17:38:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
17:45:59 -!- alise has joined.
17:47:18 <alise> like an artichoke!
17:47:41 <alise> 01:37:32 <fizzie> I think they have some sort of automation to catch people who do long-running CPU-intensive tasks.
17:47:44 <alise> then what's the point?
17:50:38 <alise> 18:54:47 <Gregor> Is 'ua' in "actually" a diaeresis?
17:50:48 <alise> Why are you all asking about this so much :P
17:51:19 <alise> US pronunciation is /ˈæk.tʃu.ə.li/
17:51:24 <alise> unfortunately i don't know what that implies :D
17:51:36 <alise> Gregor: give me the syllables of actually
17:51:46 <alise> ac tu al ly
17:51:50 <Gregor> ac-tu-a-lly
17:52:04 <alise> so it's a diarrheasis.
17:52:09 <alise> *diarrhoeasis
17:52:14 <alise> *diarrhoeasis.
17:52:24 <Gregor> That was my argument too, but that's only the case if 'ua' is actually a diphthong normally :P
17:52:29 <alise> "In linguistics, diaeresis, diæresis or dieresis, is the pronunciation of two adjacent vowels in two separate syllables rather than as a diphthong or vowel digraph, and also the name of the diacritic mark ( ¨ ) used to prompt the reader to pronounce adjacent vowels in this manner."
17:52:37 <alise> Gregor: no, it's valid anywhere technically :P
17:52:46 <alise> you'd just be mad to use it on /anything/ except adjacent identical vowels
17:52:50 <alise> which is its only real purpose
17:52:54 <alise> nobody says actu-ally or whatever
17:52:56 <alise> just co-operates
17:52:58 <alise> *co-operate
17:53:04 <alise> and - is just the diaeresis
17:53:46 <alise> coëfficient is fine because you can say co-efficient without seeming retarded
17:56:30 <Gregor> Uhh
17:56:35 <Gregor> Naïve is another example.
17:56:44 <Gregor> There are plenty of examples that are adjacent different vowels.
17:57:12 <alise> yes but as a general rule
17:57:15 <Gregor> And since a naïve reader of "naive" would pronounce it as "knave", there's a plenty-good reason to have a diaeresis mark there.
17:57:25 <alise> English is well-known to be inconsistent :P
17:57:33 <Gregor> Your FACE is well-known to be inconsistent.
17:57:33 <alise> Oh yeah: English spelling reflects pronunciation so well usually.
17:58:37 <Gregor> Your FACE reflects pronunciation so well usually!
17:58:56 <Gregor> Yes, I am going to keep saying "your FACE <whatever>" as a response to everything :P
17:59:32 <alise> My face reflects your FACE.
17:59:41 -!- cal153 has joined.
18:01:26 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Abandonando).
18:05:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:08:11 <alise> After the Tuttle CentOS incident, wherein city manager Jerry Taylor of Tuttle, Oklahoma's web host, which uses CentOS, had technical issues, leading him to threaten to report CentOS to the FBI (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/24/tuttle_centos/):
18:08:13 <alise> Taylor stated that those commenting about him online were "a bunch of freaks out there that don’t have anything better to do ... [CentOS is] a free operating system that this guy gives away, which tells you how much time he’s got on his hands."
18:08:22 <alise> I guess he doesn't need his web site after all, then.
18:09:00 <alise> (In response to the media coverage of the incident, Taylor defended his actions and pointed out that his threats of FBI action were effective. “After that, he called me Mr. Taylor,” he said, “And he got me the information I needed.”)
18:09:08 <alise> (Maybe we should waterboard him and claim it was effective afterwards.)
18:12:00 <Gregor> Report CentOS to the FBI ... for what?
18:12:19 <Gregor> Haw, lawl
18:12:23 <Gregor> Outstanding.
18:12:31 <alise> http://www.centos.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=127
18:12:36 <alise> The complete email exchange.
18:12:44 <alise> Beautiful.
18:13:47 <alise> Gregor: Area of Tuttle, Oklahoma: 29.2 square miles.
18:13:57 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:13:57 <alise> Population: 4,294
18:14:12 <alise> "Tuttle is a largely agricultural community with a focus on wheat, cotton, corn, alfalfa hay, Bermuda grass hay, and cattle."
18:14:14 <alise> Big shots, these guys.
18:14:27 <alise> "The racial makeup of the city was 91.34% White, 4.98% Native American, 0.16% Asian, 0.09% from other races, and 3.42% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 2.21% of the population. 0% of the population is African American."
18:14:29 <alise> Diverse too.
18:15:16 -!- FireFly has joined.
18:16:24 <Gregor> Well, it is Oklahoma :P
18:16:37 <alise> Not just Oklahoma; City of TUTTLE, Oklahoma!
18:17:29 <alise> "Will Johnny be pursued by the FBI?
18:17:29 <alise> Will the City of Tuttle disappear, only to be replaced by a generic apache test page?
18:17:29 <alise> I am surprised he isn't emailing the Apache Tribe and threatening them, too!"
18:17:31 <alise> lol @ the second one
18:17:50 <alise> Welcome to City of Tuttle!
18:17:52 <alise> It works!
18:17:56 <alise> If you are the administrator of this town...
18:18:12 -!- tombom has joined.
18:36:40 <SgeoN2> I guess I should logread
18:36:55 <SgeoN2> See if anyone said anything about my plight
18:38:39 <alise> apes are EVIL
18:39:20 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:41:22 <alise> Vorpal: 148-key MEGABOARD: http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/images/enhpc.gif
18:41:36 <alise> "The previous keyboard illustration showed a basic set of keys that could fit on a normal PC keyboard, taking the same amount of space, even though moving the main area of the keyboard slightly to the right created space for a few additional keys. The emphasis was on showing how APL characters could be distributed.
18:41:36 <alise> Since, however, among the added keys were the extra shifts used with the Emacs editor, and on the Symbolics LISP machine, this inspired looking again at how an expanded keyboard which provides the extra keys used in a number of environments that people have grown fond of, and which can be hosted on a PC today.
18:41:36 <alise> Thus, the keyboard illustrated above has 148 keys, so that someone running Solaris on their machine, or someone running a system based on the old Symbolics LISP Machine software or someone connecting to an IBM mainframe via IBM terminal emulation, and thus wanting the extra keys from the 122-key keyboard: those who were doing any or all of those things would have all the keys they are looking for."
18:43:35 <SgeoN2> Alise I should have listened to you
18:43:44 <alise> ?
18:44:04 <alise> SgeoN2: ?
18:44:32 <SgeoN2> Regarding Wubi
18:44:38 <SgeoN2> Read logs
18:44:53 <alise> You broke your system with it?
18:45:09 <alise> I'm sorry, but I must: Ha ha! and I told you so.
18:45:12 <alise> ...now how can I help.
18:45:25 <SgeoN2> No, but it means the installed Ubuntu is utterly useless to me
18:45:44 <alise> Wubi is utterly useless :) but what do you mean?
18:46:47 <SgeoN2> Dropped laptop, gets to OS selector but not further. Tech person at school put HD in external reader and drive showed up as uninitialized
18:47:21 <alise> If he didn't fuck with it I might be able to help...
18:47:27 <alise> Is the bootloader GRUB or NTDLR (Windows)?
18:47:31 <alise> Also, my rate is $100/hr.
18:47:41 <alise> (Or $101/hr as a special discount for friends!)
18:48:29 <alise> 19:55:24 <__s> But he's sticking to the habit of keeping a program under wraps until it's done?
18:48:29 <alise> 19:55:47 <__s> Programs are never done, release broken code and keep releasing broken code. Sooner or later people will think it works
18:48:35 <SgeoN2> Ntdlr
18:48:40 <alise> or maybe stop assuming you have a right to see someone else's code before they want you to?
18:49:11 <SgeoN2> Which means, to me, that something's reading
18:49:15 <alise> 20:04:40 * pikhq groans
18:49:15 <alise> 20:04:46 <pikhq> "AOL working with Jonas Brothers to 'redesign the Internet'"
18:49:15 <alise> wat
18:49:39 <alise> SgeoN2: In the MBR, yes.
18:49:46 <alise> That doesn't say anything about whether any partitions exist on the disk, though.
18:49:50 <alise> What boot options does it list?
18:49:56 <alise> If you have a camera on that fancy phone of yours, now would be a great time to use it.
18:51:04 <alise> SgeoN2: Your operating system is /probably/ recoverable, but -- do you have any valuable data? If so, the most prudent strategy will be to salvage that onto external media, and then to perform a complete reinstallation.
18:51:13 <alise> Salvaging Windows /and/ Wubi's Ubuntu would be tricky at best...
18:52:35 <SgeoN2> What if Linux can't see the partition easily? Any tools that would help with that?
18:52:52 <alise> Possibly. First, let's just ... move this to /msg, to complete my sentence with a different one.
19:00:33 <alise> 20:24:11 <__s> Somebody stated their address to me one time
19:00:33 <alise> 20:24:17 <__s> I showed up the next day
19:00:45 <alise> Fly to England, buddy
19:01:53 <alise> 20:28:25 <__s> I'm wishing there was a language that would let infix use space parans
19:01:53 <alise> 20:28:39 <__s> a+b * c -> (a+b)*c
19:01:53 <alise> 20:29:04 <Sgeo> Doesn't Falcon (hated be the language) do that?
19:01:53 <alise> 20:29:15 <__s> I'ven't seen this Falcon
19:01:53 <alise> 20:29:37 * Sgeo may be mistaken
19:01:54 <alise> 20:29:43 <Sgeo> But I'm certain I've seen it somewhere
19:01:56 <alise> 20:29:51 <Sgeo> Maybe some dead language loved by alise
19:01:58 <alise> merd
19:02:57 <SgeoN2> Alise is obviously just as much of a necrophile as I am
19:04:59 <alise> 20:39:16 <Sgeo> Is it just me, or do the only two near-term options for healthcare both suck?
19:04:59 <alise> 20:39:36 <Sgeo> Leave HCR as is (it's rather broken) or undo everything, going back to previous painful breakage?
19:04:59 <alise> 20:39:45 <Sgeo> HCR is a good start that needs to be fixed
19:04:59 <alise> 20:39:47 <Sgeo> imo
19:05:05 <alise> enact single-payer healthcare immediately.
19:05:17 <alise> 20:46:32 <__s> How well working are other nations' healthcare? It's a messy thing, pushed too much by all that altruism for people who can't prove themselves
19:05:18 <alise> oh, fuck you
19:05:22 <alise> 20:48:25 <__s> How much is it held back by legislation not allowing a competitive price to enter the market?
19:05:38 <alise> i love how holier-than-thou the free market guys are...
19:05:51 <alise> despite taking all the "communistic" privileges given to them by their state
19:06:07 <alise> ...hey, it's like economics fundamentalism
19:06:16 <alise> fun
19:13:55 <alise> Slate needs a better name
19:19:11 <alise> Gregor: http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/09/14/dell-tablet-flip-small.jpg
19:19:22 <alise> Except differently
19:23:12 * SgeoN2 wants
19:24:24 <Gregor> alise: That's ... bizarre.
19:24:34 <Gregor> But assuming that's a capacitive touch screen, should be good.
19:25:13 <alise> Gregor: Of course Slate has a capacitative touch screen.
19:25:15 <alise> COUGH COUGH.
19:27:17 <pikhq> alise: Hey, it's not communism if you're hurting people in the name of profit!
19:27:18 <pikhq> :P
19:28:19 <alise> pikhq: You. You are the Consultant Consultant for Slate.
19:28:23 <alise> You will be consulted.
19:28:51 <pikhq> alise: I presume it shall be a Slate.
19:29:12 <pikhq> Will it be made of slate?
19:29:16 <alise> pikhq: I consult you on the topic of whether you know what Slate is or not.
19:29:22 <alise> It will be made of metaphorical slate.
19:29:36 <pikhq> alise: I know very little of what Slate is.
19:29:58 <alise> pikhq: Slate is thin! Slate is beautiful! Slate goes any- no, that's the iPad ads.
19:30:23 <pikhq> From hints, I gather it's a tablet with a touch screen, that is designed to meet the Hird Standards of Design
19:30:23 <alise> pikhq: Slate is basically touchscreen tablet PCs -- or, uh, the iPad (except it has a fancy physical keyboard) -- done right!
19:30:33 <alise> The keyboard actually comes out from inside.
19:30:39 <alise> And there's a hingey-type design so it can stand like a laptop.
19:31:15 <alise> Also: Reasonable multi-tasking OS. Sure, everything takes up the whole screen, but ratpoison users do that even on the desktop!
19:31:40 <pikhq> And full-screen != single-tasking.
19:31:42 <pikhq> At all.
19:31:44 <alise> Indeed.
19:31:51 <alise> Repositories. etc. Probably no concept of "application install", with just "favourite applications" and the system treating non-favourite application installations as basically cache.
19:32:13 <alise> Probably -- or even just "maybe" -- no concept of open vs. closed program. Programs are GCed, if that plan is taken.
19:32:23 <alise> Browser: probably just a hacked-up Chromium.
19:32:51 <alise> It uses X11 for ease, but the marketable feature is that it supports any X11 app you want!
19:32:57 <alise> Except, uh, maybe not the GIMP.
19:33:43 <alise> pikhq: ...USB On-The-Go port so you can plug in a keyboard. (Also Bluetooth support for sane people who want to plug in a keyboard.)
19:34:54 <alise> pikhq: Reasonable-resolution display (obviously). Form factor similar to A4 paper/iPad, but, you know, different. Probably has to be tweaked a bit so the horizontal orientation is alright to use, since that's what you'll have to use when using the keyboard.
19:34:59 <alise> (Or maybe not? Who knows.)
19:35:17 <alise> pikhq: Not sure how to handle one thing: if the interface is designed for touch, how do you use it in laptop mode?
19:35:33 <alise> A mouse to operate a touch interface is... gruesome. Leaning forwards and prodding at your laptop's monitor is... yeah.
19:38:51 <pikhq> Mrf
19:38:57 -!- iamcal has joined.
19:39:07 -!- SgeoN2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:41:44 -!- SgeoN1 has joined.
19:42:02 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:43:14 <alise> pikhq: So, I consult you on the solution.
19:43:17 <alise> Get to it.
19:43:27 <alise> Ideas preferred the more ridiculous they are.
19:44:01 <fizzie> alise: Here's one: remove fingers from everyone, then you.. uh, can't do touch at all. Wait, that doesn't quite cut it.
19:44:15 <alise> fizzie: You are now the Anticonsultant.
19:46:37 <alise> pikhq: Anyway, uh, yeah.
19:46:52 <alise> pikhq: Go consult.
19:47:23 <pikhq> alise: Create a tactile touch keyboard. You can guesture upon the keyboard or type, both naturally.
19:47:38 <alise> pikhq: Yes -- and the pony, too.
19:47:40 <alise> pikhq: Consult moar
19:47:50 <alise> (Serious response: I don't think anyone's perfected a tactile touch screen yet, dude.)
19:48:05 <pikhq> alise: Wear a black turtleneck and convince people that touching a vertical surface is the best thing ever.
19:48:42 <alise> pikhq: You are the worst consultant ever.
19:49:05 <pikhq> Better than fizzie.
19:49:58 <fizzie> It's hard to be worse than someone that keeps cutting fingers off your customers.
19:50:15 <pikhq> Indeed.
19:50:25 <SgeoN1> Hmm?
19:52:42 <alise> fizzie is an anticonsultant, not a consultant. For a reason, too.
19:52:57 <alise> pikhq: Third solution!
19:54:00 <fizzie> Install a cybernetic third eye on everyone's forehead; one that allows for direct telepathetic communication with the Slate. Then you don't need more than one user interface.
19:54:41 <pikhq> I actually quite like that idea, except for the economic infeasibility of having enough magician-surgeons on hand to perform such an operation.
19:55:18 <alise> pikhq: Slate thing I'm currently thinking about: a secure method of click-a-link-on-the-web-and-the-wonderful-app-opens.
19:55:42 <alise> (This also allows an "install" method: click it, then click wherever on the screen turns the little favourite-app star on. Tada.)
19:55:54 <alise> pikhq: I'm wondering if I can beat PolicyKit/SELinux into submission.
19:56:25 <alise> The idea would be that clicking an application for the first time would say "This application needs access to the following things to function: - Your webcam - Your personal files. Is this okay?"
19:56:30 <alise> But unfortunately, this helps little.
19:56:39 <alise> Anything that even lets you save a file would have the latter! Although only write permissions.
19:56:50 <alise> Basically the only hole here is reading and writing to ~...
19:57:17 <pikhq> Per-app storage, and then you have special permissions for accessing other-app storage.
19:57:22 <pikhq> I guess.
19:58:06 <alise> pikhq: You know, I am aiming for a *modicum* of Linux compatibility here. :P
19:58:21 <alise> And overt application-centricity makes baby kitten jesus vomit.
19:58:56 <alise> [[Opening a file using the pet grants it the right to read and write the file. (File extensions can be associated with a pet.)
19:58:56 <alise> Polaris intercepts the pet's use of the Windows file chooser dialog box so that it acts as a Powerbox. This means that when the user chooses a file in a File dialog opened by the pet, the system grants the pet access to that file.]]
19:58:58 <alise> if this was practical with linux
19:59:00 <alise> we'd be sorted
19:59:01 <alise> but it's not
19:59:14 <alise> and i think one-press app runs are pretty nice
20:00:21 <SgeoN1> Don't use Android-style permissions </alreadysaid>
20:00:27 <alise> What does Android do?
20:00:45 <SgeoN1> At app install, lists permissions
20:04:17 <alise> Anything wrong with that?
20:05:41 <alise> SgeoN1
20:08:30 <SgeoN1> People ignoring it
20:08:51 <alise> Maybe we'll prompt on API use, then. Like FLASH!
20:08:55 <alise> "Foogfof]-
20:08:57 <alise> ow
20:09:00 <SgeoN1> Overly broad permissions ( is it asking for phone/I'd because it wants a unique I'd, o
20:09:02 <alise> "Foofooapp wants to use your camera!"
20:09:07 <SgeoN1> R something more sinister?
20:09:21 <Gregor> R: something more sinister.
20:09:37 <SgeoN1> Annoying users and having them always click yes is also bad
20:09:45 <alise> oww my leg
20:11:52 <fizzie> SgeoN1: Do you have some sort of typofixer there for "ID" -> "I'd"? I mean, "unique I'd"?
20:12:02 <SgeoN1> I met a girl who said, among other things, that Calculus is easy
20:12:55 <fizzie> R: the language of pirates.
20:12:55 <SgeoN1> Yes
20:13:17 <SgeoN1> And I accidentally pressed enter, there was supposed to be an or
20:14:08 <alise> Calculus is not exactly hard at the pre-university level...
20:16:17 <alise> pikhq: It would be nice if we could have an eInk-style display for reading books. Start negotiations with Pixel Qi.
20:22:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:25:27 <alise> hi Phantom_Hoover
20:25:32 <alise> you're the consultant for slate
20:25:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Yay!
20:25:45 <Phantom_Hoover> If only I knew what slate was/
20:25:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Do you mean the rock?
20:26:17 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
20:26:26 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
20:26:36 <Phantom_Hoover> OK!
20:27:38 <Phantom_Hoover> What do you want to consult me on?
20:28:57 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Everything!
20:29:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Where to start?
20:29:51 <alise> pikhq: http://imgur.com/zDMB4.png "TABLETFORMERS, laptops in disguise!"
20:30:01 <alise> That bottom view is meant to be the button you press to unleash the keyboardism.
20:31:02 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, MY GOD
20:31:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Are you going to make it out of slate/
20:32:13 <alise> Yes
20:32:34 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/10.09.15, grep "Slate is basically".
20:32:37 <alise> Then read on.
20:33:48 <cheater99> alise do you like perfume
20:36:36 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, but will it be made of slate??
20:36:46 <olsner> perfume is usually like 95% alcohol - doesn't taste good at all
20:36:56 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: yes
20:37:02 <Phantom_Hoover> :D
20:37:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Welsh or Chinese??
20:38:10 <Phantom_Hoover> IWC is getting dark...
20:38:27 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, I found Monday's xkcd mildly amusing. Discuss.
20:38:31 <alise> link
20:39:31 <Phantom_Hoover> http://xkcd.com/792/, Mr Lazy.
20:39:48 <SgeoN1> There are people who think that separation of church and state is a Nazi thing (Glen Urquhart, for instance)
20:39:52 <alise> they don't have dates
20:40:06 <SgeoN1> I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
20:40:11 <alise> SgeoN1: there are people who fuck plush toys. both are equally ignorable
20:40:36 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: all i really see is "Omg google are awesome".
20:41:11 <Phantom_Hoover> This is an interesting interpretation.
20:41:14 <SgeoN1> Said person is running for Congress
20:41:46 <SgeoN1> This, funnily enough, reminds me of an xkcd
20:42:01 <alise> i'm sure someone running for congress fucks plush toys.
20:42:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Probably a Republican.
20:44:30 <pikhq> Oh, almost certainly.
20:44:33 <Gregor> "The next time your liberal friends ask you about the separation of church and state, ask them why they are Nazis," Urquhart says to the audience.
20:44:38 <Gregor> ... what?
20:44:41 <Gregor> My brain.
20:44:43 <alise> there's probably a plush toy running for congress
20:44:46 <Gregor> I needed that for thinking.
20:44:48 <pikhq> Gregor: *AAAAGGGH*
20:44:49 <alise> who has secret relationships with humans
20:45:05 <pikhq> I was horribly unaware that *Thomas Jefferson* was a Nazi.
20:45:27 <pikhq> (you may know him for such things as writing the US Constitution and coining the phrase "seperation of church and state")
20:45:38 <pikhq> Erm.
20:45:43 <pikhq> Declaration of Independence, sorry.
20:45:45 <alise> he WAS.
20:45:48 <alise> a nazi nazi
20:45:52 <alise> now get to consulting
20:45:57 <pikhq> He was merely one person involved in the Constitution.
20:45:59 <alise> Gregor: You: produce a mascot.
20:46:19 <cheater99> alise
20:46:22 <cheater99> why do you ignore me
20:46:28 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, well, he kept slaves...
20:46:36 <Gregor> alise: A mascot for people who fuck plush toys?
20:46:41 <Phantom_Hoover> You live in NAZI COUNTRY is what this man is saying.
20:46:42 <alise> Gregor: Er. I suppose so.
20:46:56 <cheater99> "alise: A mascot for people who fuck plush toys?" << looks like a headline
20:47:05 <Phantom_Hoover> You may have thought the Nazis were German. But they are American!
20:47:15 <Gregor> alise: http://www.griefcoaching.com/images/Brown%20w_tear2.jpg
20:47:29 <alise> Gregor: Or, slate. Your choice.
20:48:09 <Gregor> alise: The above image is a mascot for both.
20:48:19 <alise> Noted.
20:48:34 <alise> Slate: Affiliated with the North American Man/Plush Toy Love Association!
20:48:38 <alise> NAMPTLA
20:48:38 -!- augur has joined.
20:50:22 <Phantom_Hoover> My conclusion is that this man is a true American patriot, trying to give the Founding Fathers their true credit for Nazism, rather than letting the Germans steal the glory.
20:50:51 <Gregor> http://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/tdomf/72364/Rat%20teddy%20bear-500x384.jpg TOO ... ADORABLE ...
20:51:09 <Phantom_Hoover> IT IS SO ADORABLE
20:51:36 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, he both owned slaves and (ironically) tried to make slavery one of the reasons to rebel in the Declaration of Independence.
20:52:05 <Phantom_Hoover> See? Those damn liberals, trying to pry America from its roots!
20:52:26 <pikhq> Cognitive dissonance is truely one of the fundamental principles of the US.
20:55:11 <Phantom_Hoover> So wait, the British were denying Jefferson his right to slavery?
20:55:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Or what?
20:56:05 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: No, he was a slaveowner opposed to slavery.
20:56:11 <pikhq> Your head asplode... Now.
20:56:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Damn, that's going to take a while to clean up.
20:56:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Now qualify that statement appropriately.
20:57:05 <pikhq> He owned slaves. And wanted to end slavery.
20:58:57 <Phantom_Hoover> O.o
20:59:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Please tell me there's something you're leaving out that makes this whole thing make sense.
20:59:51 <pikhq> No.
21:00:07 <pikhq> He both owned slaves and wanted to end slavery. *And that's it*.
21:02:52 -!- trinithis has joined.
21:04:04 <SgeoN1> Bbl
21:04:14 <SgeoN1> Want to conserve battery
21:04:28 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Quit: Bye).
21:05:08 <trinithis> !
21:08:01 <Phantom_Hoover> ?
21:08:22 <trinithis> !
21:09:20 <Phantom_Hoover> ??
21:09:55 <trinithis> I just thought of a new funge language
21:10:33 <trinithis> "Crossfunge"
21:10:46 <trinithis> its kinda like befunge, but like a crossword puzzle
21:10:58 <trinithis> instructions are chains of letter that form words
21:11:14 <trinithis> badass, i know
21:12:22 <alise> i see.
21:13:10 <trinithis> ... such a bad minesweeper score :(
21:13:14 <trinithis> 3:09
21:13:22 <trinithis> cat required my attention
21:15:10 <Phantom_Hoover> What setting.
21:16:48 <trinithis> home
21:16:55 <trinithis> on top of my keyboard
21:17:08 <trinithis> oh
21:17:11 <trinithis> expert
21:17:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Basic, Medium
21:17:22 <trinithis> normally i do around 2:15
21:17:23 <Phantom_Hoover> Or... ADVANCED
21:17:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah.
21:17:34 * Phantom_Hoover has completed it twice.
21:19:16 <Phantom_Hoover> trinithis, new here?
21:19:26 <trinithis> yep
21:19:30 <trinithis> first time in channel
21:19:42 <trinithis> found it when browsing a befunge implementation blog
21:20:04 <trinithis> just finished writing my own Funge-98 interpreter
21:20:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Neat.
21:21:06 <trinithis> http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html#cat:compilers/interpreters
21:21:14 <trinithis> err
21:21:22 <trinithis> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/Fungi
21:21:26 <trinithis> thats what i wanted :D
21:23:30 <fizzie> Out of curiosity, how Mycology-compliant it is?
21:26:03 <trinithis> all GOOD
21:26:18 <trinithis> implemented 10 fingerprints
21:26:23 <trinithis> so far
21:27:34 -!- fungot has joined.
21:27:48 <fizzie> Well, for a Befunge person, maybe we should hype our usually-resident bot, fungot.
21:27:48 <fungot> fizzie: well, we wouldn't have bothered to pay attention to it
21:28:09 <fizzie> Yeah, certainly don't pay any *attention* to what it says, but it's still written in Funge-98.
21:28:11 <fizzie> ^source
21:28:11 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
21:29:04 <trinithis> Wait...
21:29:10 <Phantom_Hoover> ^style ct
21:29:10 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
21:29:13 <trinithis> the bot is written in befunge?
21:29:24 <Phantom_Hoover> I feel like some death threats, fungot
21:29:25 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone?! then i'll repair the masamune!
21:29:42 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, hmm. Not nearly threatening enough.
21:29:42 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez!
21:29:54 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, NOT GOOD ENOUGH
21:29:54 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: the king awaits. you saved our queen? you see, the mammon machine are as follows. the y button displays the time to drop by!? all the young must migrate to other planets...to repeat the cycle...
21:30:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Baah.
21:30:12 <Phantom_Hoover> He threatened to kill me last time he was on that setting.
21:30:25 <fizzie> It's probably a ploy of some sort.
21:30:50 <fizzie> False sense of security and all that.
21:31:40 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, DASTARDLY
21:31:40 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: it's a machine that looks like you!
21:31:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Aha!
21:31:58 <fizzie> Among the other notable features are Brainfuck and Underload interpreters.
21:32:04 <fizzie> ^bf ,[.,]!brain-fuckery
21:32:04 <fungot> brain-fuckery
21:32:12 <fizzie> ^ul (underloadsies)S
21:32:12 <fungot> underloadsies
21:32:26 <fizzie> And that's probably pretty much it.
21:32:30 <Phantom_Hoover> They plan to make an android double of me!
21:33:34 <trinithis> fungot, DASTADLY
21:33:34 <fungot> trinithis: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...
21:33:42 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
21:35:39 -!- Flonk has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.9/20100824153629]).
21:36:08 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, do IRC bots dream of electric sheep?
21:36:09 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: we are looking to achieve a shorter life span... lavos will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's statue before my shift. i hate! ayla not like...
21:37:26 <fizzie> ^style
21:37:26 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
21:37:39 <fizzie> That's the full list of styles of nonsense it has.
21:38:05 <Phantom_Hoover> ^style ss
21:38:05 <fungot> Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings)
21:38:14 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, to be, or not to be?
21:38:14 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: con. signeor arme, arme with speed. the conclusion is, then thou, the greatest soldier of the world
21:40:00 <Phantom_Hoover> I can only assume that fungot thinks me the greatest soldier in the world/
21:40:01 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: duk. no: i made vnto the noyse, when soone i heard, oh could i finde it still, when any virgin comes for fnord lest that for fear or such sinister practise she should be denied.
21:40:27 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, what are you planning to do to a virgin??
21:40:28 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: luc. i beleeue thee: i pr'ythee, fnord
21:40:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Avoiding the question, eh?
21:41:25 <pikhq> Sooo, I do believe that fungot got fed with period orthography.
21:41:26 <fungot> pikhq: lieu. no, i am not partiall to infringe our fnord the fnord
21:41:40 <pikhq> fnord?
21:41:54 <fizzie> "Our fnord the fnord", heh.
21:42:12 <fizzie> It's the placeholder for all frequency-less-than-a-threshold tokens.
21:42:17 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, I agree, ten.
21:42:34 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:42:39 <pikhq> fizzie: And clearly Shakespeare had a lot of low-frequency tokens.
21:42:58 <pikhq> What's the frequency of fnord in yonder Fungot?
21:43:08 <fizzie> I didn't do the filtering in all models, so some of them are non-fnordy.
21:43:21 <fizzie> Let's see if I still have the data files.
21:43:44 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:43:59 <fizzie> If I have, they're not in the pile where the rest of the stuff is.
21:44:29 <fizzie> I guess the language model dumping script might be able to tell me that, though.
21:44:43 <fizzie> I think the root node will have plain unigram (read: token) counts.
21:46:24 <fizzie> Eeexcept that I can't find my model-dumper.
21:47:41 <fizzie> Oh, it's in the twungot pile.
21:47:46 <pikhq> What's this?
21:47:56 <pikhq> Gregor: You finished Op. 13?
21:47:59 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot's data files, I assume.
21:48:00 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: corn. to this effect, before you answer warwick. his demand springs not from edwards well-meant honest loue, but in defence, be thus vpbrayded, chid, and rated by northumberland, did speak these words, these lookes, infuse new life in me
21:49:28 <pikhq> Ah, loue and vpbraysion
21:49:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Rated by Northumberland?
21:49:59 <Phantom_Hoover> That'll be alise up to his tricks again.
21:50:03 <pikhq> fizzie: It seems you may want to (somehow) normalise v/u.
21:50:33 <Gregor> pikhq: Yeah
21:50:34 <pikhq> As the text you have there seems to predate them being distinct graphemes.
21:50:40 <Gregor> pikhq: Mind you, I did by dropping one movement X-P
21:50:47 <pikhq> Gregor: CHEAT
21:50:56 <Gregor> pikhq: Your FACE is CHEAT.
21:51:05 <pikhq> YES IT IS
21:51:08 -!- nooga has joined.
21:51:09 <pikhq> I CARE NOT
21:51:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Your MOTHER'S FACE is CHEAT.
21:51:40 <fizzie> 0.07 % of tokens are UNK, if I read the output right. And that's probably not the only thing to normalize; there's a whole lot of punctuation that has ended up in the vocabulary.
21:52:25 <fizzie> There's a lot of cases with "foo" and "foo;" both in there, I guess the punctuation tokenifier didn't handle semicolons right.
22:00:56 <olsner> http://i53.tinypic.com/34zeic1.gif behold, the cat, mouse, ten thousand numbering system
22:01:07 <olsner> aka katten/musen/tiotusen
22:01:48 <olsner> http://i51.tinypic.com/212adkp.gif <-- you can even use it for linear algebra
22:04:01 <pikhq> Neko/nezumi/man
22:04:08 <pikhq> Sorry, insufficient pedantry.
22:04:15 <pikhq> Neko/nesùmi/mann
22:04:57 <pikhq> 猫・鼠・万
22:08:37 -!- CPressey has joined.
22:10:18 <Phantom_Hoover> CPressey, why the caps?
22:11:58 <CPressey> hey wow
22:12:01 -!- CPressey has changed nick to cpressey.
22:13:07 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, commentary of Japanese friend on your Facebook snippet: "3/4 baked".
22:14:01 <Phantom_Hoover> I have no opinion on the matter.
22:15:16 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: 3/4 baked? Whawhawhawha?
22:15:39 <Phantom_Hoover> He says that on second thought, you probably know more actual grammar than me.
22:15:43 <Phantom_Hoover> *him
22:15:50 <pikhq> ...
22:16:04 <pikhq> Japanese not his native language or something?
22:16:12 <Phantom_Hoover> It is.
22:16:20 <pikhq> Oookay...
22:16:38 <pikhq> So, I've probably gone ahead and done something unidiomatic there.
22:16:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, I think he's bilingual and has spoken Japanese from a very young age.
22:17:13 <Phantom_Hoover> And yes, he basically says that it's not wrong but unidiomatic.
22:17:26 <pikhq> Whereas I'm decent at Japanese, but absolutely not fluent.
22:17:47 <pikhq> And it becomes really obvious when I say something correct but unidiomatic.
22:20:32 <pikhq> Incidentally, I greatly appreciate corrections.
22:22:43 <Phantom_Hoover> He said that "だそうだ" would be a better alternative from a spoken point of view.
22:24:11 <pikhq> Mmmm. Makes sense.
22:39:49 <alise> back
22:41:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Or are you?
22:42:06 <alise> <pikhq> Ah, loue and vpbraysion xD
22:44:13 <alise> <olsner> http://i53.tinypic.com/34zeic1.gif behold, the cat, mouse, ten thousand numbering system
22:44:13 <alise> <olsner> aka katten/musen/tiotusen
22:44:13 <alise> <olsner> http://i51.tinypic.com/212adkp.gif <-- you can even use it for linear algebra
22:44:18 <alise> olsner: are you married?
22:47:00 <alise> pikhq: how's the pixel qi deal going
22:47:03 <alise> hi cpressey
22:47:10 <alise> i don't actually think you're boring :(
22:47:53 <alise> I want a Pixel Qi IPS AMOLED display!
22:49:15 <Phantom_Hoover> olsner, explain this number system.
22:50:18 <alise> Pixel Qi displays are so awesome; extremely lightweight, on the order of 5-10x less power than a regular display outside, transflective (this is an actual term) display so you can turn the backlight off and have it usable when there's lighting (http://pixelqi.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/outside_pq.25513142_large.jpg) unlike regular LCD displays
22:50:32 <alise> with the backlight off as readable as eInk
22:50:41 <alise> can be used with capacitative touch
22:50:56 <alise> aaand they're planning wide angle screens in winter 2010-2011
22:51:01 <alise> also apparently a "slim version" whatever that is, in Q1 2011
22:51:13 <alise> pikhq: What I am saying is: Slate totally has to use a Pixel Qi display.
22:51:29 <alise> The only tablet that's *actually suitable* outside, and as an eBook reader.
22:52:07 <alise> (Pixel Qi was founded by the people who made the OLPC's display.)
22:52:43 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, can you synthesise them from SLATE?
22:52:49 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
22:53:07 * Phantom_Hoover decides to look up the elemental composition of slate.
22:53:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Mostly quartz, muscovite or illite
22:54:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Quartz is SiO2, so you can get the silicon necessary from that.
22:54:47 <Phantom_Hoover> But none of those contain carbon, so if you want any plastic components, you're screwed
22:55:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Unless there's a magic way of polymerising silicon compounds.
22:56:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, there's a smaller graphite component.
22:56:16 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Fusion and fission.
22:56:28 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, rather impractical.
22:56:36 <alise> pikhq: Discuss how awesome Pixel Qi displays are.
22:56:46 <pikhq> But you asked *can* you synthesise them from slate.
22:56:52 <pikhq> And the answer is YES
22:57:18 <fizzie> pikhq: And thanks to homeopathic principles, even after fusion/fission it will retain the inherent essence of slate.
22:57:19 <Phantom_Hoover> And you can't fission Si into C, since Si is stable in all significant isotopes AFAIK.
22:57:25 <pikhq> alise: Awesome are.
22:57:33 <alise> pikhq: Therefore in Slate yes?
22:57:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Or indeed, anything into H, which you *will* need.
22:57:56 <fizzie> "Stable" just means "doesn't break unless you hit it", doesn't it?
22:58:11 <pikhq> alise: Yes, thus Slate in.
22:58:17 <Phantom_Hoover> No, it means that it's not going to decay no matter how long you wait.
22:58:36 <alise> pikhq: Good thing you're in charge of business deals! Get to it.
22:58:50 <Phantom_Hoover> And bombarding Si with neutrons is almost certainly not going to give you C12.
22:59:36 <Phantom_Hoover> But anyway, there should be a bit of graphite around, so that's not the best example.
23:00:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Illite contains iron, so you're fine there...
23:00:21 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:00:34 <cpressey> hi alise
23:00:45 <cpressey> trying to not actually be boring. time will tell
23:00:47 <Phantom_Hoover> But none of them contain copper, which is necessary-ish.
23:00:54 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Application of sufficient energy to an atom will knock off particles.
23:01:16 <pikhq> Granted, you need a particle accelerator to do this reliably.
23:01:39 <Phantom_Hoover> And in minuscule quantities.
23:02:13 <pikhq> Yes, but large amounts of minuscule quantities are large quantities.
23:02:43 <alise> No, large amounts of minuscule quantities are normal quantities.
23:02:51 * Phantom_Hoover wonders if copper is in any common decay sequences.
23:03:15 <Phantom_Hoover> IIRC it's mostly lead-207 (?)
23:03:51 <pikhq> Oh, mere application of neutrons will cause any atom to split. The fissile elements are merely those which sustain a chain reaction in doing so.
23:04:43 <alise> pikhq: HOW IS THE BUSINESS DEAL GOING
23:04:43 <pikhq> So: mix small pieces of slate into fuel rods, and then extract the carbon after using them!
23:04:51 <fizzie> Dump a large quantity of slate into a star scheduled to go supernova, then collect elements from the results? (Again according to the same homeopathic principles, everything that comes out will have the beneficial attributes of slate.)
23:05:18 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, how about this: I'll stop being sensible about science and you can not be sensible about business!
23:05:27 <pikhq> fizzie: Not going to work. We want lighter elements, not heavier.
23:05:56 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, our essential problem is fissioning atoms that are perfectly happy already
23:06:04 <pikhq> alise: We have arranged for a homeopathic screen.
23:06:23 <alise> pikhq: Good, good.
23:06:31 <fizzie> pikhq: I'm sure there's quite a lot of different elements in the remains of a star, you know. Isn't that pretty much how everything is made?
23:06:33 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: You can fiss any atom with neutron bombardment. It's just that only a small handful can do a chain reaction.
23:06:33 <alise> pikhq: Do you make more of it out of plastic to get a higher resolution?
23:06:48 <pikhq> fizzie: And yes. As the fusion goes on longer, you get heavier and heavier elements.
23:06:51 <alise> pikhq: *fis
23:06:56 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, which elements are we even trying to fiss?
23:06:56 <alise> wait
23:07:00 <alise> "FUSion" -> "fuse"
23:07:04 <alise> "FISsion" -> "fise"
23:07:05 <alise> pikhq: *fise
23:07:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Or get out of fising.
23:07:20 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: All necessary raw materials. From slate.
23:07:21 <Phantom_Hoover> I think it was Cu...
23:07:23 <alise> Fission is the result of the action "fise".
23:07:34 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, yeah, but which ones aren't present?
23:07:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Cu was the big one.
23:08:04 <pikhq> Oh, we'll get Cu. Even if we have to generate nothing but hydrogen then make a star.
23:08:26 <Phantom_Hoover> We don't *have* significant quantities of hydrogen
23:08:54 <pikhq> No, but we have significant quantities of slate, and can bombard it with neutrons until it damned well is hydrogen.
23:09:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, is Cu even found in mineral form normally?
23:10:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Isn't it one of those ones that doesn't react enough to orify?
23:10:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Anyway, /me → sleep
23:10:57 <pikhq> *Don't care. We will perform inefficient fission.*
23:11:10 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:13:20 <alise> cpressey: You're the Anticonsultant Evil-Double-Antiness "Auntie" Consultant Consultant Consultant for Slate.
23:14:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
23:15:08 <cpressey> alise: meaning: i know nothing. NOTHING, I TELL YOU!
23:15:27 <cpressey> whatever it is you are thinking, I DENY IT
23:17:01 <alise> cpressey: wat
23:26:03 <cpressey> alise: NOT TRUE
23:26:21 <cpressey> etc
23:26:40 <cpressey> i make a good anticonsultant, yes?
23:26:49 <oerjan> 15:07:00 <alise> "FUSion" -> "fuse"
23:26:50 <oerjan> 15:07:04 <alise> "FISsion" -> "fise"
23:26:50 <alise> cpressey: umm... mu
23:27:00 <alise> oerjan: that makes little sense, doesn't it :D
23:27:02 <alise> fisse, then
23:27:06 <oerjan> i don't think the latter is a word.
23:27:07 <alise> fuse and fisse
23:27:15 <alise> oerjan: there's no word for it, thus the need to derive one
23:27:17 <alise> is it fiss or fisse?
23:27:27 <oerjan> i've been pondering why not
23:27:49 <alise> Because you can just say "split"?
23:28:05 <oerjan> you can also say "join"
23:29:12 <cpressey> a joinion of eclectic styles
23:29:13 <oerjan> i guess mainly it's that _neither_ fusion nor fission are from verbs of the form that english can borrow automatically (they have consonant stems)
23:29:35 <oerjan> and it's only an accident that fuse got in
23:30:00 <oerjan> (this guess 1/4 baked)
23:31:12 <oerjan> while vowel stems get -ation -> -ate or -ition -> -ite in a regular manner
23:31:39 <oerjan> *from latin verbs
23:32:47 <oerjan> well regular except when they're not :)
23:33:04 <oerjan> (audit rather than audite, e.g.)
23:34:24 <cpressey> fuse means to merge together, right? so why is the purpose of a fuse to come apart?
23:35:02 * cpressey just confused himself into a corner
23:35:06 <cpressey> good night
23:35:07 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving).
23:48:56 -!- SgeoN1 has joined.
23:51:08 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
←2010-09-14 2010-09-15 2010-09-16→ ↑2010 ↑all