←2010-09-23 2010-09-24 2010-09-25→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:01:16 <alise> olsner: "Look at this, Intel. This is how CRAP your processor is. We use it to run PostScript underneath our OS. It is a fucking graphics card! Disgusting."
00:03:14 <pikhq> Hah.
00:03:33 <pikhq> A Display Postscript graphics card.
00:04:05 * Sgeo enters YouTube's HTML5 beta
00:04:11 <alise> Sgeo: it sucks
00:04:29 <Sgeo> It's either that or keep enduring Flash crashes
00:04:45 <pikhq> Problem is, apparently web browser devs suck at video about as bad as Adobe.
00:05:01 <alise> pikhq: No, no; HTML5 video is good.
00:05:04 <alise> YouTube manage to fuck it up.
00:05:05 <olsner> List price for a NeXTdimension sold as an add-on to the NeXTcube was $US 3,995.
00:05:24 <Sgeo> alise, howso?
00:06:23 <alise> Sgeo: try and see.
00:06:31 <TwokNT4GDIpp> abcdefg
00:06:38 <Sgeo> s/g//
00:07:16 <TwokNT4GDIpp> hijklmnop
00:08:46 <alise> Does anyone want my incredibly-hacky NASA Astronomy Picture of the Day automagic background-setter?
00:10:05 <Sgeo> Was it written in Falctor?
00:10:22 <alise> Bash.
00:10:27 <alise> Also cron.
00:10:40 <alise> It only works with GNOME. Well, it only works if Nautilus controls the desktop.
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00:19:18 <Sgeo> WTF?
00:26:09 <alise> Sep 24 00:00:28 dinky kernel: [29372.274066] rtl8192_SetWirelessMode(), wireless_mode:10, bEnableHT = 1
00:26:10 <alise> hmm
00:26:14 <alise> Sgeo: you enabled html5.
00:26:15 <alise> html5 is not flash
00:28:30 <Sgeo> Believe it or not, I was aware of that
00:28:45 <Sgeo> But FlashBlock failed to block something, and when I went to check extensions, it wasn't there
00:33:08 <pikhq> It also comes with a whitelist that enables Youtube.
00:33:11 <pikhq> And nothing else.
00:33:47 <Sgeo> DIdn't used to have that on the whitelist
00:33:59 <Sgeo> Which was nice when I opened a bunch of YouTube tabs
00:34:03 <Sgeo> Back on my ancient comp
00:35:57 <Sgeo> I never used to have problems with Flash on Ubuntu :/
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01:08:22 <Sgeo> I should attempt to get SL working
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01:12:42 <EOF> yo bitches
01:13:21 * Sgeo feeds everyone chocolate
01:13:25 <pikhq> hì'ti sìȳa nai sè'!
01:13:39 <Sgeo> There, all the bitches are dead
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01:15:02 <EOF> lulz
01:15:52 * EOF forces everyone to vomit using a special sound frequency
01:17:51 * Gregor vomits his frame pointer.
01:18:47 * pikhq vomits out EOF's resonant frequency
01:19:24 * EOF laughs out loud
01:19:51 * EOF notices SEGFAULTS!!! NOOOOO!!!!
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01:24:17 <alise> air
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01:24:51 <Sgeo> Ubuntu feels very unstable :(
01:24:53 <alise> Sgeo: But did you remember to cool the hot bitches before poisoning them???
01:24:56 <alise> Also, it's not.
01:24:58 <alise> Your system just sucks.
01:26:02 <Sgeo> Then Ubuntu is unstable on this system. Windows was not.
01:27:06 * Sgeo goes to install XChat
01:28:02 <alise> clearly this is a flaw in ubuntu not your computer being shit
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01:30:55 <EOF> yo
01:32:17 * alise boggles at Sgeo's paranoia.
01:32:33 <Sgeo> ..?
01:32:56 <EOF> ubuntu is one of the most stable GNU/Linux distros around, but i did find that the maverick meerkat repos have either very stable, or completely non-working software
01:33:06 <EOF> altho
01:33:26 <EOF> the lucid repos *should* have some good versions
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01:38:10 <Sgeo> alise, what paranoia?
01:38:21 <alise> Sgeo: agora
01:38:28 <Sgeo> Ah, lol
01:46:26 <Sgeo> That's the second time SL crashed for no reason
01:47:17 * Sgeo sadly disables visual effects
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02:04:02 * Sgeo decides to run SL from a console
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02:05:27 * Sgeo is starting to wonder if it's sound-related
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02:23:37 <Sgeo> I'm starting to wonder if it's all Chromium's fault
02:25:25 <Gregor> Everything is chromium's fault. Fekking allergen.
02:25:51 <alise> Goodnight.
02:25:51 <alise> Bye.
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02:40:39 <Sgeo> Now it's Firefox crashing like crazy
02:40:45 <Sgeo> It occurs to me that I have no swap space
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03:13:09 <myndzi> it's funny
03:13:29 <myndzi> on Windows at least (it sounds like maybe you aren't on windows?) you can run down to 0 bytes HD space left and get no warning
03:13:37 <myndzi> just a bunch of bizarre crap starts happening
03:13:46 <myndzi> it doesn't say HAY JACKASS DELETE SOME FILES or anything
03:15:16 <Sgeo> Oh, Ubuntu warns me about HD issues
03:15:36 <Sgeo> Not memory issues though, which is what I think the problem is
03:15:47 <Sgeo> It's just that there is no swap space with LiveUSB I think
03:43:36 * pikhq notes that it would be really silly to have FLACs of all the Final Fantasy soundtracks
03:44:27 <Sgeo> For limited-space persons?
03:44:34 <Sgeo> Or are FF soundtracks low-quality to start with?
03:45:20 <pikhq> Sgeo: Before FFX, it was all synthesized by the console it was running on.
03:46:40 <Sgeo> Which is more portable? FLACs, or software that can generate the music?
03:46:49 <pikhq> FLACs by far.
03:47:36 <Sgeo> Indeed.
03:47:40 <pikhq> Though on a desktop system it's not hard to get a synth emulator going; most consoles have their sound systems perfectly emulated, and there's programs to just emulate a music ROM.
03:48:09 <Sgeo> Meh, it's probably easier for most people to waste the HD space
03:48:26 <Sgeo> I would need the synth stuff
03:49:01 <pikhq> Yeah, but "most people" will just accept MP3s.
03:55:45 <Sgeo> Creatures 3 (at least, don't know about older versions) uses procedurally-generated music
03:56:04 <Sgeo> Which varies based on mood and threat and something else
04:05:58 <Gregor> I changed some code from using nasty casts to using a union, and even though it's semantically identical, GCC produces much better assembly with the union.
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04:07:29 <Gregor> I did this because I was compiling with -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic, and my reinterpreting a word as a float/double evoked the ever-meaningless type-punned pointer error.
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04:07:56 <Gregor> (Since I was type-punning a size_t with a float or double)
04:09:50 <pikhq> Gregor: It's not meaningless. It means you hit undefined behavior, and the compiler has replaced you with a small shell script.
04:11:03 <Gregor> But I still find the RESULT very weird.
04:11:21 <Gregor> I change it for a union, do something semantically identical with that union, and it produces different assembly?
04:11:33 <pikhq> Ah, but it's not semantically identical.
04:11:46 <Gregor> It is on every actual platform :P
04:12:00 <pikhq> Though they are both undefined behavior, and GCC will launch the missiles now.
04:13:55 <Gregor> Aww crap it blew up Hong Kong.
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04:40:15 <coppro> yay, I came up with a proof that I believe to be more elegant than the one the prof was helping other students to come to
04:55:39 * pikhq downloads a 33 gig music torrent
04:57:50 * Sgeo jealousies at pikhq
04:58:25 <Sgeo> I'm starting to think maybe Knoppix is a good idea. Presumably, with Knoppix, part of the USB would be swap space, and the OS would be started from CD, leaving more USB space for personal files
05:10:13 <coppro> goddamnit
05:12:41 <coppro> damn inequalities. Damn them all!
05:15:00 <coppro> I hate inequalities
05:15:18 <coppro> they're so great for proving absolutely useless stuff
05:15:29 <coppro> e.g. that -|a| < 0
05:16:54 <coppro> also multiplying them is irreversible
05:27:10 <Sgeo> coppro, wrong
05:39:58 <coppro> Sgeo: ?
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05:40:38 <Sgeo> coppro, what happens when a=0?
05:41:00 <Gregor> The world comes to an end.
05:42:44 <coppro> Sgeo: in my example, that can't happen
05:42:57 <coppro> I fully expect you to know this already
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05:47:01 <Sgeo> I can't seem to determine whether that's a joke or not
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05:48:04 <coppro> Sgeo: it's a joke
05:48:08 <coppro> I'm just tired and annoyed
05:48:45 <coppro> because I'm really dumb or something
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06:44:12 <coppro> apparently my party is bemused
06:49:27 <wareya> Alright, does this look good for now?
06:49:29 <wareya> http://64.vg/uvM
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07:16:08 <coppro> wow, my parliament is getting worse and worse as time goes on
07:16:22 <coppro> A minister said 'What I do find shocking though is that the Liberal Party and its coalition partners so willingly are sanctioning the idea that we could sanction Canadians with jail time or with fines to pursue what they think is right.' and wasn't trounced on
07:16:26 <coppro> I'd be all over that in a heartbeat
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07:16:41 <coppro> brilliant thing to build a strawman from
07:18:07 <oerjan> i vaguely recall sanctioning is its own antynom, which makes that a bit hard to interpret
07:18:13 <oerjan> *antonym
07:19:38 <oerjan> that is, it can mean both approve and punish
07:20:07 <oerjan> hm i guess it's obvious which is which up there
07:21:28 <augur> wareya: warrigal?
07:21:36 <wareya> augur: What?
07:21:41 <augur> guess not!
07:21:45 <wareya> lol
07:22:05 <oerjan> of course not, warrigal is tswett. that's obvious, sheesh
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07:22:41 <oerjan> (and isn't here much any longer)
07:23:04 <oerjan> bastard got a life or something
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10:05:43 <nullkuhl> any brainfuck coders around ?
10:08:40 <fizzie> Brainfuck dabblers, perhaps.
10:11:46 <nullkuhl> am trying to parse an input, to print it in reverse, and input ends with a character of asci value = 10 and i should skip that character and itshould be where my code terminates
10:13:31 <nullkuhl> fizzie: do you have any approach in head ?
10:15:04 <fizzie> Well; for the reversing, the easiest is just to read on tape one way, then print it all out in the other order afterwards. As for the termination, flags could be useful. I'll dabble for a moment.
10:17:40 <nullkuhl> fizzie: also EOF is -1
10:30:24 <fizzie> ^bf +[,[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>--------------------------------[<+>[-]]<]<<[.<]!foobar baz
10:30:24 <fungot> raboof
10:30:29 <fizzie> Well, that inverts up to a space.
10:30:43 <fizzie> It doesn't handle EOF properly, though.
10:31:07 <nullkuhl> and space is removed as well
10:32:33 <fizzie> It basically loops a while(p[0]) { p[0] = input; p[2] = p[0]; p[2] -= 32; if (p[2]) p[1] = 1; p++; } and then after that ends does p -= 2; while (p[0]) { putchar(p[0]); p--; }
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10:37:51 <nullkuhl> fizzie: there is no such thing as a C to brainfuck convertor yeah ?
10:38:22 <fizzie> I think there's approximately two, but neither might be very complete.
10:38:38 <fizzie> One of them is a GCC backend, the other was a more stand-alone thing.
10:38:57 <nullkuhl> link to any ?
10:40:05 <fizzie> Uh.. http://codu.org/projects/trac/gcc_bf/browser seems to be about the gcc-bf project, but it might be non-trivial to build. ais523 wrote it, unless I misremember; he'd know more about how well it works, but doesn't seem to be here at the moment.
10:41:03 <fizzie> There's also the bfcomp thing, which doesn't exactly compile C to brainfuck, but a C-like higher-level language: http://www.clifford.at/bfcpu/bfcomp.html
10:42:04 <nullkuhl> i was trying to find a bf tracer or a debugger that shows the memory array or so
10:42:52 <fizzie> I've used http://www.iamcal.com/misc/bf_debug/ for quick in-browser tests.
10:43:06 <fizzie> It's not too featureful, but can single-step and does breakpoints.
10:43:39 <fizzie> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck#External_resources contains a metric bazillion of links to brainfuck-related stuff, too.
10:44:49 <Vorpal> <alise> Vorpal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i860 <-- hm what about it? I know about it since before.
10:45:38 <fizzie> esotope in particular is nice; here's what it outputs if I give it that "reverse string up to a space" thing: http://p.zem.fi/esotope-out.c
10:47:07 <nullkuhl> fizzie: ok i made it: ,----------[++++++++++>,----------]<[.<] this reverse input till a new line character is met
10:47:24 <nullkuhl> fizzie: its quite long though :)
10:48:45 <Vorpal> olsner, alise: <alise> "ATM machine HURRR and whenever anyone says 'radar ranging' I'm ON their ass" <-- an amusing such case in Swedish is that a CD is quite often called "CD-skiva"... "skiva" translates to "disc" in this context...
10:49:54 <Vorpal> same goes for "DVD-skiva", but I think (based on personal experience) that it is getting more uncommon nowdays than when CDs and DVDs were new technology...
10:50:19 <fizzie> Vorpal: It's "CD-levy" ("CD disc") in Finnish too. (For some reason, I don't think I've really heard anyone speak of "CD discs" in English, but I do have heard "DVD discs". Though most of course go just "DVDs".)
10:50:51 <nullkuhl> fizzie: can you make it shorter?
10:51:30 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm that http://p.zem.fi/esotope-out.c is somewhat suboptimal. Trying to think of what kind of analysis would find that p[1] += p[0]; could be turned into p[1] = p[0];
10:51:38 <Vorpal> probably some sort of flow control analysis
10:52:14 <Vorpal> that looks at loop entry conditions as well as loop exit conditions
10:52:36 <Vorpal> or wait, did I misanalyse it?
10:52:49 <Vorpal> yep, missed that it wasn't balanced
10:53:13 <fizzie> Vorpal: It should still be safe, because of the p[2] = 0 before ++p. But it might not be so easy for it to grok.
10:53:39 <Vorpal> very true
10:54:19 <Vorpal> fizzie, adding a [-] at the beginning of the loop would probably help
10:54:42 <Vorpal> now, bbl
11:06:30 <cheater> hi
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11:11:47 <nullkuhl> fizzie: could this be shorter ,----------[++++++++++>,----------]<[.<] ?
11:12:01 <fizzie> nullkuhl: +[,[-<+>>+<]>----------]<<<[.<]
11:13:12 <nullkuhl> fizzie: ugh, someone did it in 14 chars :(
11:13:25 <nullkuhl> am golfing with some friends actually
11:14:20 <fizzie> 14 chars is barely enough to have the constant 10 in there, so it sounds a bit cheaty. What sort of test cases you have for it?
11:15:01 <nullkuhl> you dont have to have a 10 constant , may be you can just ignore the last char
11:15:26 <fizzie> Oh, okay, in that case it sounds more sensible.
11:16:05 <cheater> ugh
11:16:12 <cheater> anyone do java here?
11:16:36 <fizzie> Something like ,-[+>,-]<<[.<] might work for EOF=-1 and ignore-last-char-before-EOF.
11:16:47 <fizzie> Haven't tested that, don't have a EOF -1 interp handy here.
11:17:52 <fizzie> ais does Java, but I guess you meant "here right now at this very moment".
11:18:17 <fizzie> Uh, I mean ,+[->,+]<<[.<] of course.
11:19:42 <fizzie> fungot has EOF=0, so in his case:
11:19:42 <fungot> fizzie: in the middle ages, sir slush!... i grow so tired. we can talk. we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away! wait! maybe you'd know!!... smell of all the human race is doomed! mwa, ha! say, do you like plants?
11:19:43 <fizzie> ^bf ,[>,]<<[.<]!abcd
11:19:43 <fungot> cba
11:21:49 <fizzie> In case ,+[->,+]<<[.<] works, that's 14 chars; in that case I think +[->,+]<<[.<] should work too, and be only 13 chars.
11:29:17 <fizzie> (I've been seen doing some Java too, but those are just unsubstantiated rumours...)
11:37:42 <nullkuhl> fizzie: ,+[->,+]<<[.<] that crashes :(
11:37:47 <nullkuhl> probably EOF problem
11:38:00 <nullkuhl> but wait
11:38:04 <nullkuhl> +[->,+]<<[.<] this works
11:38:56 <fizzie> That's funny, it should do pretty much the same thing.
11:39:51 <fizzie> The latter doesn't try to go past the left end of the tape, though, so if your tape isn't wrapping, that might explain why it crashes.
11:40:05 <nullkuhl> i think [->,+]<<[.<] should work too
11:40:28 <fizzie> [->,+]<<[.<] will always skip the first [...] completely, assuming the tape is initialized to zero.
11:40:34 <nullkuhl> yeah
11:40:41 <nullkuhl> well thats 13 chars
11:40:43 <nullkuhl> some one just did 12
11:40:55 <nullkuhl> i wonder where is the catch
11:41:56 <fizzie> +[->,+]<[<.] then?
11:42:24 <fizzie> It would print out an extra \0, but maybe that gets ignored somehow.
11:42:33 <nullkuhl> nah its not ignore :(
11:43:13 <nullkuhl> +[->,+] i think this is the part to be changed to 1 char less
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11:51:04 <nullkuhl> fizzie: shouldnt this work : +[->,+]<[<.] ?
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11:53:14 <fizzie> Anything with [<.] at the end will (out of necessity) print out a 0 byte at the end, because the [<.] loop only terminates if . has printed out a nul.
11:54:09 <nullkuhl> oh yes
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11:58:34 <nullkuhl> [>,+] ok this should keep taking input till EOF (-1) is gotten, then <[<.] should print it reversed and terminate at first value in tape which is zero
11:58:54 <nullkuhl> fizzie: [>,+]<[<.] in theory should work
12:00:32 <fizzie> I don't see how, it'd at the very least end up printing all bytes with +1 applied.
12:00:40 <nullkuhl> [>,+]<[<-.]
12:00:52 <nullkuhl> how about that
12:01:14 <fizzie> That will again never enter the [>,+] loop if the tape starts at zero. And [<-.] again terminates only after actually printing the zero.
12:01:24 <fizzie> Why don't you try these out instead of asking, though?-)
12:02:12 <nullkuhl> i was just trying to discuss it , to understand it more
12:03:36 <fizzie> Interpreters are more reliable than people, though.
12:08:57 <nullkuhl> fizzie: ok one more thing, if EOF is -1 , why does this crash ,+[-.,+]
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12:10:01 <fizzie> That I don't know; it should be pretty much a straight-forward "cat".
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13:34:11 <Phantom_Hoover> nooga!
13:34:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Is that how "nougat" should be pronounced?
13:34:38 <Phantom_Hoover> This question commands my interest!
13:34:58 <nooga> well
13:35:01 <nooga> i don't know
13:35:18 <nooga> i pronounce 'nooga' it like 'noga'
13:35:27 <nooga> noga means leg in polish
13:40:12 <Phantom_Hoover> In the UK "nougat" is indeed pronounced that way.
13:40:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Although it's a long 'a'.
13:48:12 <nooga> i' sweet
13:48:16 <nooga> i'm*
13:51:05 <nooga> ;f
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14:21:14 <nullkuhl> fizzie: is it possible to do multiplication using brainfuck ?
14:21:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, it is.
14:22:11 <fizzie> Sure, why not? Just add a to b, c times, to get b = a*c.
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14:22:39 <fizzie> It might be a bit trickier with multi-cell numbers if you need more than a byte.
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14:22:46 <fizzie> ^pow2
14:22:46 <fungot> 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048 4096 8192 16384 32768 65536 131072 262144 524288 1048576 2097152 4194304 8388608 16777216 33554432 67108864 134217728 268435456 536870912 1073741824 2147483648 42949672 ...
14:23:06 <fizzie> That does bignum multiplication by a constant 2, but it's very silly.
14:23:26 <fizzie> ^show pow2
14:23:27 <fungot> +2[[<+7[-<+7>]>[-<+<+>>]<[->+<]<-2.[-]<]+4[->+8<]>.[-]>>[-[>+2<-[>+2<-[>+2<-[>+2<-[>-8>+>[->+>+<2]+>>[<2->>[-]]<2[>+<-]>[-<+>]<4-[>+2<-[>+2<-[>+2<-[>+2<[-]]]]]]]]]]<[->+<]>+>[-<+>]>>]<3]
14:24:31 <nullkuhl> well it should take 2 numbers separated by a new line
14:24:34 <nullkuhl> and multiply them together
14:24:46 <nullkuhl> the output will be less than 10000
14:27:00 <nooga> homework O_O?
14:27:50 <fizzie> Hrm. If you're golfing this, it may even make sense to just do decimal multiplication, the routines I've seen to convert from decimal and back have been a bit unwieldy.
14:28:29 <nullkuhl> fizzie: is there such routines already ?
14:29:47 <fizzie> Sure; at least in example programs around the interwebs, and presumably also in those higher-level languages.
14:31:51 <fizzie> http://mazonka.com/brainf/ has some that seem familiar to me.
14:32:00 <fizzie> ^ord A
14:32:00 <fungot> 65
14:32:05 <fizzie> That probably uses one of them.
14:32:06 <fizzie> ^show ord
14:32:07 <fungot> >>,[[-<+2>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<2[>+6[<+8>-]<-.[-]<]+32.[-]>>,]
14:38:29 <nooga> :F
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14:58:03 <oerjan> <nullkuhl> am trying to parse an input, to print it in reverse, and input ends with a character of asci value = 10 and i should skip that character and itshould be where my code terminates
14:58:24 <oerjan> i am pretty sure one of the bots has a command for that.
14:58:31 <oerjan> unless it was _old_ EgoBot
14:58:41 <oerjan> !show rev
14:58:43 <EgoBot> That is not a user interpreter!
14:58:56 <oerjan> !userinterps
14:58:57 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird fudd funetak google graph gregor he hello id jethro kraut num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh simpleacro slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg
14:59:04 <oerjan> !show reverse
14:59:04 <EgoBot> bf ,----------[++++++++++>,----------]<[.[-]<]
14:59:11 <oerjan> yeah that's the one
14:59:27 <oerjan> ^show rev
14:59:28 <fungot> >,[>,]<[.<]
14:59:42 <oerjan> fungot uses ascii 0 to terminate instead
14:59:42 <fungot> oerjan: the usual...test them. you can entertain us for awhile? use the skyway to save miss you. but i like it that you survived? marle lucca
14:59:43 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
15:00:07 * oerjan may have written one or both of those
15:00:41 -!- SimonRC has joined.
15:01:29 <nullkuhl> oerjan: thanks i did it already 12 characters :)
15:01:54 <oerjan> wait 12 characters including the ascii 10?
15:02:21 <nullkuhl> yes
15:02:32 <nullkuhl> +[->,+]<[.<]
15:02:45 <nooga> !show sadbf
15:02:46 <EgoBot> sadol :M$0 :d:i,45000@>i-01(2]M0:i-i1:S$0:C;3:l#C-01:p:m0@<pl(2?=#Cp"1+:#Mm%+#Mm1,3255?=#Cp"1-:#Mm?<-#Mm10,3254-#Mm1?=#Cp"1>:m%+m1d?=#Cp"1<:m?<-m10-s1-m1?=#Cp"1.!'2#Mm?=#Cp"1,:#Mm'1;0?=#Cp"1[]S-p1?=#Cp"1]?=#Mm00:p[S0:p+p1
15:02:48 <nooga> ah
15:02:56 <oerjan> nullkuhl: um no that definitely uses ascii 0 termination
15:03:03 <nullkuhl> nop :)
15:03:05 <nullkuhl> try it urself
15:03:26 * nullkuhl opps
15:03:27 <nullkuhl> wrong paste
15:03:30 <nooga> today i thought about a graphical esolang based on curves
15:03:57 <nullkuhl> oerjan: +[,[-<+>>+<]>----------]<<<[.<]
15:04:08 <Phantom_Hoover> I was thinking about a New Age esolang.
15:04:08 <nooga> that go through some specific points and fork etc.
15:04:11 <oerjan> yeah that's a bit more believable :D
15:04:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Wherein the words "holistic" and "vibration" are fundamental concepts.
15:05:07 <nullkuhl> oerjan: do you know how to multiply 2 numbers together separated by asci 10
15:05:14 <oerjan> hm that [-] in EgoBot's version seems redundant to me. maybe it's taken from one that could be repeated for several lines
15:05:57 <fizzie> oerjan: Maybe it's written by an obsessively tidy person.
15:05:59 <oerjan> nullkuhl: in decimal? that's a bit more awkward.
15:06:42 <oerjan> nothing impossible, of course
15:09:13 <oerjan> the printing out again may be the most awkward bit, since it needs to convert back to decimal
15:10:14 <fizzie> oerjan: You could do the whole math in decimal; or at least in base-10 digit-per-cell format. The task needs multi-cell numbers anyway.
15:10:48 <oerjan> um i was imagining ignoring overflow here :D
15:11:57 -!- augur has joined.
15:12:10 <oerjan> the divmod algorithm from http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#Divmod_algorithm may be a useful building block in any case
15:12:26 <Phantom_Hoover> I was thinking that objects have some kind of waveform associated, which interacts with all of the other objects. Or something.
15:13:35 <oerjan> nullkuhl: mind you i'm too lazy to actually write this ;D
15:15:10 <nooga> Phantom_Hoover: the problem with such complicated ideas is that they have to be converted to a simpler form
15:15:27 <nooga> and this form would be probably some kind of pretty basic, boring esolang
15:16:57 <Phantom_Hoover> :(
15:20:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, we can solve that easily enough.
15:20:57 <Phantom_Hoover> NO SIMPLIFICATION ALLOWED
15:24:15 <oerjan> no simplification <=> use actual quantum field theory, with your objects being made out of particles
15:25:04 * oerjan points out in advance that he doesn't actually know quantum field theory
15:26:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Nor I.
15:26:33 <Phantom_Hoover> And using *actual* quantum field theory makes it less New Agey.
15:26:43 <oerjan> i guess :D
15:34:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Let's invent some!
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15:39:10 <quintopia> oerjan: what is the bot policy for #esoteric?
15:39:33 <oerjan> don't spam?
15:39:47 <quintopia> that's a good policy
15:40:25 <oerjan> it's of course frequently broken :D
15:40:59 <quintopia> so anyone may bring in a bot as long as it isn't annoying-as-shit?
15:41:02 <oerjan> yeah
15:42:25 <oerjan> anything implementing/implemented in esolangs is of course positively encouraged
15:42:47 <quintopia> well yes
15:43:06 <quintopia> but egobot pretty much already implements all the 1D esolangs right?
15:43:24 <oerjan> i'm not sure it implements _all_...
15:43:28 <Phantom_Hoover> `help
15:43:35 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
15:43:35 <Phantom_Hoover> No, wait.
15:43:39 <Phantom_Hoover> That's HE.
15:43:45 <oerjan> it even has some 2d ones, i think. it can run from web pages after all
15:43:45 <Phantom_Hoover> !help userinterps
15:43:46 <EgoBot> userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
15:44:05 <Phantom_Hoover> !userinterps
15:44:05 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird fudd funetak google graph gregor he hello id jethro kraut num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh simpleacro slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg
15:44:18 <Phantom_Hoover> !pi 20
15:44:20 <oerjan> !help languages
15:44:21 <EgoBot> languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
15:44:23 <EgoBot> 3.14159265358979323844
15:44:55 <quintopia> so, wait, i could tack my own interpreters onto egobot's list?
15:44:57 <Phantom_Hoover> !sffffffffedeesh Hello, world!
15:44:57 <EgoBot> Hellu, vurld! Bork Bork Bork!
15:44:58 <oerjan> quintopia: EgoBot distinguishes between languages and user interpreters, with the latter being implemented by anyone in the former.
15:45:32 <Phantom_Hoover> !show pi
15:45:33 <EgoBot> sh read p; if [ "x$p" = "x" ]; then p=5; fi; echo "scale=$p; a(1)*4;" | BC_LINE_LENGTH=490 bc -l | tr -d '\\'
15:45:38 <oerjan> Gregor has at times planned to make that recursive but hasn't found a good design for doing so
15:45:40 <quintopia> oerjan: can anyone add a new language?
15:45:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Not AFAIK.
15:46:25 <Phantom_Hoover> But you can always just use sh and some quoting.
15:46:39 <quintopia> good point
15:46:48 <oerjan> quintopia: that requires modifying the EgoBot repository, afaik. but i'm sure Gregor accepts reasonable patches.
15:47:00 <quintopia> i'm p terrible at sh, but neato
15:47:20 <Phantom_Hoover> As you can see, that's how I got bc for the pi thing.
15:47:25 <quintopia> crap i should have left a long time ago
15:47:29 <oerjan> however HackEgo is the one intended for being near completely user modifiable. for some reason we haven't added esolangs to it though.
15:47:43 <quintopia> ha
15:47:49 <Gregor> oerjan: Because I'm too lazy to get the ball rolling on that process.
15:47:56 <Gregor> `run bash -c 'echo USE MEEEEEEE'
15:47:59 <HackEgo> USE MEEEEEEE
15:48:33 <quintopia> how would one go about making a usermod bot that can't be broken by anyone? seems like you have to limit mods to sandboxed things that can be killed when they misbehave
15:48:41 <quintopia> or you can trust people and shoot them if they fuck it up
15:48:50 <Gregor> CAN'T be broken, or CAN be fixed?
15:49:01 <quintopia> same difference
15:49:06 <Gregor> HackEgo's userland is stored in a Mercurial repository, and any changes can be reverted by anyway.
15:49:07 <Gregor> *anyone
15:49:10 <Gregor> `help
15:49:11 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
15:49:43 <quintopia> oh, right, the repository is external to the bot making it editable even when the bot is down
15:49:51 <quintopia> but can anyone reboot the bot if down?
15:49:54 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought HackEgo had the clever replacement libc thing?
15:50:13 <Gregor> quintopia: Feel free to try taking down the bot, you won't succeed :P
15:50:19 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, not mine.
15:50:24 <Phantom_Hoover> `shutdown
15:50:26 <HackEgo> No output.
15:50:37 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Feel free to try something at least BORDERLINE clever X_X
15:50:41 <Phantom_Hoover> `shutdown 3
15:50:43 <HackEgo> No output.
15:50:48 <Phantom_Hoover> NEVER
15:50:56 <Phantom_Hoover> I shall only try entirely stupid things!
15:51:03 <Phantom_Hoover> `ls /
15:51:05 <HackEgo> bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr
15:51:13 <Phantom_Hoover> `ls /lib
15:51:14 <HackEgo> cpp \ firmware \ init \ ld-2.11.2.so \ ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 \ libBrokenLocale-2.11.2.so \ libBrokenLocale.so.1 \ libSegFault.so \ libacl.so.1 \ libacl.so.1.1.0 \ libanl-2.11.2.so \ libanl.so.1 \ libattr.so.1 \ libattr.so.1.1.0 \ libblkid.so.1 \ libblkid.so.1.1.0 \ libbsd.so.0 \ libbsd.so.0.2.0 \ libbz2.so.1 \ libbz2.so.1.0
15:51:22 <ais523> the sensible thing to do would be to find out what sandboxing system it uses, then google for exploits in it
15:51:24 <oerjan> quintopia: actually HackEgo as an ugly history of frequently locking up so Gregor had to restart it, but this is completely unrelated to anyone trying to hack it. also i think he managed to finally fix that.
15:51:35 <Gregor> oerjan: I fixed that, yes :P
15:51:44 <Phantom_Hoover> `touch /lib/libld-2.11.2.so
15:51:45 <HackEgo> No output.
15:51:51 <Phantom_Hoover> `touch /lib/libld-2.11.2.so 2>&1
15:51:52 <HackEgo> No output.
15:51:54 <quintopia> gregor: wouldn't editing the repo to include a piece of code that runs a tight infinite loop and triggering it accomplish something like that?
15:52:06 <Gregor> You mean like
15:52:11 <Phantom_Hoover> It has a strict termination thing IIRC.
15:52:13 <Gregor> `run while true; do echo; done
15:52:13 <ais523> `run while true; do done;
15:52:16 <HackEgo> No output.
15:52:22 <HackEgo> \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \
15:52:25 <ais523> heh, we wrote almost the same program
15:52:32 <ais523> my infinite loop's tighter than Gregor's
15:52:32 <Gregor> ais523: Except mine worked :P
15:52:36 <ais523> but it ended pretty quickly
15:52:44 <ais523> `run while true; do true; done
15:52:47 <Gregor> ais523: That's because it was not correct code :P
15:52:51 <ais523> well, OK
15:53:01 <ais523> I blame it on bash insisting that loops contain at least one statement
15:53:02 <quintopia> gregor: yes, except modifying the bot directly to remove the termination check
15:53:04 <ais523> hmm, I haven't got a no output yet
15:53:14 <ais523> quintopia: the bot can't edit its own source
15:53:27 <Gregor> quintopia: That fshg is 1) only accessible via this interface, you can't push, and 2) doesn't include the bot itself, just the things contained within it.
15:53:28 <ais523> you could hack Gregor's computer and edit the bot, I suppose, but that's cheating
15:53:29 <Phantom_Hoover> What was that language that formed a group over concatenation?
15:53:34 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: Burro
15:53:34 <oerjan> *has
15:53:50 <quintopia> so it's not completely usermod and the code it can run is sandboxed
15:53:59 <ais523> Gregor: I still haven't got a "No output."
15:54:01 <Gregor> quintopia: Of course. I am BORDERLINE sane :P
15:54:09 <Gregor> ais523: It only gets killed after 30 seconds.
15:54:12 <ais523> does it not come up if an infinite loop gets terminated?
15:54:21 <ais523> (I think it's more than 30 seconds or so)
15:54:22 <Gregor> ais523: Mine got killed faster for overusing output, not infinite looping ;)
15:54:26 <ais523> yep, I noticed
15:54:30 <Gregor> ais523: After 30 seconds ON THE CPU, that is.
15:54:35 <ais523> which is why I wanted a no-output version
15:54:44 <Gregor> ais523: And they're throttled down so much they haven't gotten 30 seconds yet :P
15:54:50 <HackEgo> No output.
15:54:54 <ais523> there we go
15:55:24 <ais523> `run a(){a|a&;}a;
15:55:26 <HackEgo> No output.
15:55:34 <ais523> I've probably screwed it up again haven't I
15:55:36 <Gregor> quintopia: There's also http://hackiki.org/ , the Wiki version of Hackbot :)
15:55:37 <ais523> `run a(){a|a&};a;
15:55:38 <HackEgo> No output.
15:55:52 <ais523> although I'd imagine a forkbomb would get killed very quickly anyway
15:55:55 <Phantom_Hoover> `run :(){ :|:& };:
15:55:56 <HackEgo> No output.
15:55:58 <ais523> if it works like that
15:56:19 <ais523> `run a(){while true; do a|a&; done};a
15:56:20 <HackEgo> No output.
15:56:27 <Gregor> *yawn*
15:56:39 <ais523> I'm just curious as to whether it kills it immediately or slowly
15:56:48 <Gregor> ais523: Just standard ulimits.
15:56:51 <ais523> `run a(){while true; do a&; done};a
15:56:52 <HackEgo> No output.
15:56:55 <Phantom_Hoover> :(){ :|& };: should work on all sh-compatible shells.
15:57:03 <Phantom_Hoover> er, *|:
15:57:04 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: not without the third colon
15:57:17 <Phantom_Hoover> NOW it should work.
15:57:17 <ais523> the issue with that forkbomb is that it's easily outcompeted; the while-loop version isn't
15:57:34 <ais523> you can block it with a counterbomb that's greedier with PIDs and that locks them after it uses them
15:57:39 <ais523> that clears itself up after 30 seconds or so
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16:02:56 <ais523> fizzie: heh, your Befunge C-style-constants beat the Java all the way up to the deadline (and is still winning)
16:04:15 <ais523> even though the Java was improved by 1 byte
16:04:59 <oerjan> golfing with java is a bit like the paralympics, no?
16:05:04 <nooga> hahahhaha
16:05:16 <nooga> almost like golfing with pascal
16:05:41 <nooga> the truth is that i first learned some pascal
16:05:45 <nooga> when i was 11
16:06:05 <fizzie> nooga: The Befunge implementation did, in fact, also beat Pascal.
16:06:15 <fizzie> (Java 116 bytes, Pascal 130.)
16:06:24 <fizzie> (And Befunge 115.)
16:06:25 <nooga> turbo pascal 6.0 was only programming thingy on my dad's computer was TP under DOS
16:07:09 <fizzie> They all seem to use the "enum plus instance constructor" trick.
16:07:28 <ais523> what, even the Befunge?
16:07:38 <fizzie> Well, not that. But all (two) Java ones.
16:07:46 -!- nullkuhl has left (?).
16:07:46 <oerjan> there's probably a fingerprint for that.
16:08:10 <fizzie> oerjan: It's 93, though.
16:08:17 <oerjan> ah
16:08:23 <fizzie> (Party like it's '93.)
16:08:39 <ais523> before or after September?
16:09:00 <fizzie> The single-byte playfield cells of 93 killed my fraction-simplification Befunge solution. :/
16:09:11 <oerjan> apres nous le deluge
16:10:03 <Phantom_Hoover> nooga, my old school used that as their only programming thingy.
16:10:16 <Phantom_Hoover> In 2008.
16:10:27 <fizzie> ais523: I like that "print eval and print chop for readline" alpha-only Perl solution.
16:10:54 <ais523> thanks
16:10:58 <ais523> getting the newline was the hard bit
16:11:12 <ais523> so I grab it from the last character of each line as it comes past
16:12:32 <fizzie> I remember having a bug of the "$s = chop $s;" variety once; it's not immediately intuitive that it returns the chopped bit and actually modifies the passed variable.
16:14:28 <ais523> I think that's why it was mostly deprecated in favour of chomp
16:14:55 <Phantom_Hoover> What does chomp *do*?
16:15:27 <fizzie> I'm not sure chomp's very much saner; it returns the number of characters removed, and also modifies the string.
16:15:50 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: chop removes the last character always, chomp only if (simplified) there actually is a newline there.
16:16:00 <nooga> Phantom_Hoover: i taught pascal in high school, like huh, 5 years ago
16:16:10 <nooga> because the IT teacher couldn't
16:17:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
16:18:47 <Phantom_Hoover> My old school's computing curriculum was... weird.
16:19:52 <Phantom_Hoover> For the first 3 years, computing was mandatory, then nothing for 2 years, and then you could optionally do it in 6th year.
16:20:34 <Phantom_Hoover> To quote a friend, they spent large amounts of money on maintaining a computing department in which computing was not taught.
16:22:51 <nooga> well
16:32:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, well, well
16:44:21 <nooga> brb
16:48:41 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:04:02 -!- nooga has joined.
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17:12:52 <Vorpal> ais523, saw in #nethack the past few minutes?
17:13:02 <Vorpal> XD
17:13:28 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Client Quit).
17:13:31 <oerjan> the #nethack chainsaw massacre
17:15:21 <ais523> Vorpal: I wasn't paying attention
17:15:24 <ais523> summary?
17:23:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Is Burro TC?
17:27:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, what happened in #nethack?
17:30:08 <quintopia> what are all the bot command characters for this chan?
17:30:41 <oerjan> ^echo hi
17:30:42 <fungot> hi hi
17:30:45 <oerjan> !echo hi
17:30:46 <EgoBot> hi
17:30:50 <oerjan> `echo hi
17:30:52 <HackEgo> hi
17:31:18 <oerjan> fungot always was a little special.
17:31:18 <fungot> oerjan: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...!
17:31:24 <fizzie> ~ is a logical, at-the-moment free one.
17:31:35 <quintopia> also ?
17:31:45 <quintopia> and @
17:31:57 <fizzie> Sure, but they don't seem so botty to me. :p
17:32:13 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
17:32:16 <fizzie> Wasn't there something that used to use backslash?
17:32:19 <quintopia> i have known bots that use $ as the command character and have a "catch-all" response
17:32:27 <quintopia> which makes talking about money fun sometimes
17:32:39 <fizzie> I have known bots that have a catch-all response to everything that ends in "?".
17:32:45 <fizzie> Makes being interrogative fun sometimes.
17:32:49 <quintopia> yeah but that's just annoying
17:33:06 <quintopia> statements starting with $ come up much less frequently in normal speech
17:33:10 <quintopia> i need a powerade brb
17:33:35 <fizzie> We also have that \o/ script thing.
17:33:35 <myndzi\>
17:33:35 <myndzi\>
17:34:11 <oerjan> myndzi\: wth did you do to its legs
17:34:33 <fizzie> That looks unhealthy.
17:35:09 <pikhq> The penis fell off.
17:35:35 <quintopia> ahaha
17:35:47 <quintopia> try that again \o/
17:35:47 <myndzi\> |
17:35:48 <myndzi\> >\
17:35:51 <quintopia> much better
17:36:56 <oerjan> \m/ \m/
17:37:07 <oerjan> bah
17:37:15 <oerjan> \m/ \m/
17:37:30 <oerjan> \m/\m/
17:37:39 <oerjan> \m/ \m/
17:37:51 <oerjan> he must have removed that one :(
17:37:54 <fizzie> It should have just one space; don't know why your first \m/ \m/ didn't work.
17:37:55 <myndzi\> `\o/
17:37:55 <myndzi\> |
17:37:55 <myndzi\> /`\
17:37:55 <myndzi\> (_| |_)
17:38:03 <fizzie> Oh, it's too wide to start so early.
17:38:20 <oerjan> um it shouldn't be
17:38:26 <fizzie> See the shoes.
17:38:34 <fizzie> Also the \ in myndzi's nick, that's not there usually.
17:38:43 <oerjan> ...they don't go to the left of the hands
17:39:03 <oerjan> true but i added a space at the front
17:39:16 <fizzie> Yes, I noticed that. Still, I think it's about the placement.
17:39:22 <fizzie> \m/ \m/
17:39:23 <fizzie> \m/ \m/
17:39:24 <myndzi\> `\o/
17:39:24 <myndzi\> |
17:39:24 <myndzi\> (_|'|_)
17:39:34 <fizzie> Aah, so it can potentially have wider forms.
17:39:40 <oerjan> ah
17:39:43 <fizzie> Just not always.
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17:54:50 * Sgeo would rather be using Chromium
17:54:55 <Sgeo> But somehow, it's crashy
17:55:01 <quintopia> // sometimes I believe compiler ignores all my comments
17:55:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Zuh?
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18:01:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Today's xkcd was somehow worse than usual.
18:01:53 <Phantom_Hoover> I do not know how.
18:01:56 <oerjan> now what was it again ->
18:02:17 <oerjan> ah
18:03:12 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: couldn't be worse than last friday's
18:03:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Fair point.
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18:04:32 <Phantom_Hoover> That one makes Munro look like such an idiot that ESR could reasonably look down on him.
18:05:08 <quintopia> i think the steady decline of xkcd has finally reached the tipping point, and is now in a sharp drastic decline, either into oblivion or something completely but not as crappy as an unfunny stickfigure webcomic
18:05:17 <quintopia> perhaps the prophecied pictoblog
18:05:38 <quintopia> *completely different
18:06:07 <Phantom_Hoover> My money's on "oblivion".
18:06:55 <quintopia> well, if we call its heyday an orgasm and the current decline a refractory period, then it follows that it is "too late to pull out"
18:07:10 <quintopia> but i don't really think it is. i think the fans would welcome a change of format at this point.
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18:14:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, he could stop trying to be SMBC but with worse art and jokes, that would definitely be a start.
18:15:34 <quintopia> s/SMBC/every other webcomic that doesn't suck/
18:15:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, but SMBC specifically.
18:17:12 <quintopia> i don't see a reason to pick that one out
18:17:23 <quintopia> he steals jokes from other webcomics all over the place
18:22:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, but in terms of the format, it's basically SMBC sans art.
18:22:49 <Phantom_Hoover> i.e. panel showing strange situation, and text below explaining it, conveying the joke.
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18:29:47 <quintopia> you could be right. it looks like convergent evolution to me, but i've no way to prove he didn't deliberately copycat the formet
18:30:22 <quintopia> on the other hand, there are only so many ways to do a gag-a-day comic with little in the way of recurring characters
18:32:25 <Vorpal> hm anyone has a clue to fix a windows computer where the password database is completely fucked? On Linux it would be a simple case of replacing /etc/shadow and /etc/passwd from a livecd...
18:32:27 <Vorpal> windows xp
18:34:11 <quintopia> starting with a recovery disk is a good idea
18:34:23 <quintopia> no idea what files need to be modified/restored
18:36:00 <fizzie> There are those password-resetting rescue disks, perhaps one of them would work. (They might assume an existing, well-formatted user database, though.)
18:36:43 <Vorpal> fizzie, I do not know if it is well-formatted. Also hm, laptop without cd drive... this might get tricky
18:36:55 <fizzie> Also the XP installer *might* do something sensible to it. (Then again, it might just break everything else too.)
18:37:24 <Vorpal> hah
18:38:14 <Vorpal> fizzie, the thing has SP3. Doesn't windows xp have a recovery console thingy on the cd? I can only find a SP2 cd though
18:39:11 <fizzie> I remember the win2k recovery console; don't quite recall what it could do, and where it was.
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18:39:45 <fizzie> I think I've seen references to http://trinityhome.org/ too; it should be USB-stickable.
18:40:10 * Sgeo wants a Windows system on USB
18:41:06 <fizzie> Yeah, the recovery console was bootable from the installer, with the "repair" option.
18:42:31 <Vorpal> hm, I wonder if an usb cd drive would work..
18:42:58 <fizzie> It might not be terribly useful; it had a fixboot/fixmbr boot sector fixes, but I don't think much else.
18:46:40 <fizzie> chntpw -- http://pogostick.net/~pnh/ntpasswd/ -- has its own bootdisk, which might be smaller; don't see a USB stick option there. Based on the descriptions it may be that it's not of much help if the SAM stuff is completely broken.
18:48:17 <Vorpal> wtf, it can boot from a linux live cd from the usb cd drive but it refuses to boot from the windows cd
18:48:45 <quintopia> you can probably fix it from linux if you know what needs to be fixed.
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18:49:05 <quintopia> there may not be prebuilt tools for that purpose though :/
18:50:15 <quintopia> not that that had any informational content, but I just wanted to say it because, in general, you would be a much cooler person if you did it that way.
18:58:18 <Sgeo> If you can boot from one medium, you can boot from any
19:00:25 <lifthrasiir> Is there any way to install osx without using DVD?
19:00:35 <Phantom_Hoover> No.
19:00:42 <lifthrasiir> sigh.
19:00:51 * Phantom_Hoover decides to try proving Burro's groupity in Coq.
19:01:32 <lifthrasiir> My DVD drive in macbook is so broken that every DVD stuck in the middle
19:01:35 <lifthrasiir> Gah.
19:04:37 <Vorpal> the recovery console wants a password (finally got the drive to work on that cd)
19:04:40 <Vorpal> sigh
19:06:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, how to define computational equivalence.
19:06:39 <fizzie> Vorpal: One of chntpw's features is to twiddle the registry so that the recovery console won't ask for a pwd.
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19:16:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm
19:16:59 <Vorpal> fizzie, I used a tool on sysrescue (recommended boot cd!) to reset admin password
19:17:03 <Vorpal> lets see if it works...
19:17:13 <Vorpal> well, now I got past login screen
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19:25:17 <lifthrasiir> I just started wondering how big the smallest brainfuck interpreter in C is...
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19:26:36 <Vorpal> lifthrasiir, hm
19:27:04 <Vorpal> lifthrasiir, I think you could make a "stupid" one rather short
19:27:12 <Vorpal> one that searched the string for [ and ]
19:27:31 <Vorpal> which would make skipping loop and re-running loop O(n) XD
19:28:10 <lifthrasiir> Vorpal: that is acceptable; it just has to run for well-and-reasonably-defined subset of programs
19:29:09 <lifthrasiir> I think it is easy to get it under 200 bytes, will it fit in tweets? ;)
19:29:14 <lifthrasiir> a tweet*
19:30:57 <Vorpal> fizzie, funny it still refuses login outside safe mode...
19:31:11 <Vorpal> time for recovery console (I set that thing for it too)
19:35:31 <fizzie> I have a four-line one somewhere, I think.
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19:35:44 <fizzie> And it's not the most compact I've seen.
19:36:03 <Vorpal> fizzie, did you write it?
19:36:08 <fizzie> Yes.
19:36:09 <fizzie> How big were tweets again? 140 chars?
19:36:20 -!- alise has joined.
19:36:28 <fizzie> We were sort of C-golfing with friends.
19:36:32 <Vorpal> hah
19:36:42 <Vorpal> fizzie, also I think 2-line should be doable. One for #include<stdio.h>, then the rest of the program on the next line
19:36:47 * alise wakes--
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19:37:28 <alise> 19:13:29 <myndzi> on Windows at least (it sounds like maybe you aren't on windows?) you can run down to 0 bytes HD space left and get no warning
19:37:28 <alise> 19:13:37 <myndzi> just a bunch of bizarre crap starts happening
19:37:28 <alise> 19:13:46 <myndzi> it doesn't say HAY JACKASS DELETE SOME FILES or anything
19:37:31 <alise> sure does by default
19:37:45 <alise> 19:43:36 * pikhq notes that it would be really silly to have FLACs of all the Final Fantasy soundtracks
19:37:51 <alise> noo, store them as native synthesiser files
19:37:53 <alise> like .sid
19:38:05 <alise> and have the chips in the computer
19:38:06 <alise> :-D
19:38:33 <fizzie> Vorpal: Yes, well, 'line' here means 80 chars; and no need to include anything when golfing, implicit declarations are good enough.
19:38:37 <fizzie> main(j,a,n)int*a;{unsigned short p=-1;char*r=calloc(n=p+1,6),*i=r+n,**k
19:38:37 <fizzie> =i+n;for(read(open(*++a,0),i,p);j<0?*i-91?*i-93?:--n||(j=-j):++n:(n=*i
19:38:37 <fizzie> -43)?n-2?n-19?n-17?n-3?n-1?n-48?n-50?:p[r]?i=k[j]:j--:p[r]?k[++j]=i:(
19:38:37 <fizzie> n=1,j=-j):read(0,r+p,1):putchar(p[r]):p--:p++:p[r]--:p[r]++,*i++;);}
19:38:49 <fizzie> That is what it seems to have ended up as.
19:38:49 <alise> 20:55:39 * pikhq downloads a 33 gig music torrent
19:38:50 <Vorpal> hm
19:38:53 <alise> want connection please
19:39:12 <Sgeo> .torrent files should not be 33gb\
19:39:24 <Vorpal> ...
19:39:28 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought pikhq's connection was equivalent to trying to suck bits through a leaky straw.
19:39:41 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: I moved *months* ago.
19:39:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Since he lived in a small hovel on a mountain.
19:39:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Aha!
19:39:53 <Vorpal> alise, 33 GB? All uncompressed .wav? Or is he trying to collect all music (like he did for all snes ROMs iirc? Or was that someone else?)
19:39:58 <pikhq> alise: http://www.bakabt.com/130907-Final_Fantasy_Lossless_Music_Collection.html
19:40:06 <alise> pikhq: no i mean your collection
19:40:12 <alise> erm
19:40:12 <Phantom_Hoover> He is Theodore Kazyncski 2.0!
19:40:13 <alise> connection
19:40:14 <alise> sheesh
19:40:16 <pikhq> alise: Ah.
19:40:16 <Sgeo> pikhq, weren't you just explaining that that's a silly thing to do?
19:40:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, this is #esoteric!
19:40:27 <Vorpal> pikhq, you could collect all music in digital form ever made. Like you did collect all ROMs
19:40:30 <alise> Sgeo: not if you're a nerd about quality
19:40:34 <Phantom_Hoover> "Silly" is an archaism!
19:40:35 <pikhq> Sgeo: I then discovered it's a royal pain to get good players for it.
19:40:57 <Vorpal> pikhq, what is the format?
19:41:02 <pikhq> alise: As opposed to emulating the actual synthesizers. Which as it turns out is a pain to do well.
19:41:06 <pikhq> Vorpal: FLAC?
19:41:16 <Vorpal> pikhq, how is hard to get good players for flac?
19:41:22 <pikhq> Vorpal: FLAC? *Easy*.
19:41:26 <alise> pikhq: better to run them through the actual consoles
19:41:29 <alise> analogue subtleties
19:41:44 <Vorpal> pikhq, um, mplayer? vlc? A shitload of other programs?
19:41:59 <pikhq> Vorpal: NSF, however, is a pain to play well.
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19:42:10 <Sgeo> How do I dismiss GNOME notifications?
19:42:10 <Vorpal> ah
19:42:17 <Vorpal> pikhq, what is NSF?
19:42:19 <alise> Sgeo: you mean notify-osd notifications
19:42:20 <alise> you don't
19:42:22 <alise> you wait
19:42:24 <pikhq> NES Sound Format.
19:42:36 <pikhq> It's an NES ROM with just code for the audio chip.
19:42:40 <lifthrasiir> fizzie: what is r for? r will get calloc(0,6) which is not realloc'ed later so it is just unused...
19:42:48 <Sgeo> It is kind of nice that they don't block what's behind them, I guess
19:42:50 <pikhq> You could, in fact, stick it on a cart and play it on a real NES.
19:43:05 <alise> Sgeo: not being able to dismiss them is a security feature
19:43:14 <Vorpal> Sgeo, iirc they go away if you move the mouse above them
19:43:15 <alise> in that it makes people want to dismiss every one of them after they've read them, which is a waste of time
19:43:20 <alise> the notifications are meant to be completely passive
19:43:31 <alise> Vorpal: well, almost (very translucent) but they come back if you move out
19:43:44 <alise> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD
19:43:44 <Sgeo> You can even click behind them!
19:43:49 <Vorpal> alise, yes they come back, also they don't go translucent here?
19:43:52 <alise> Sgeo: again, very intentional
19:43:57 <Vorpal> alise, maybe it depends on compositing?
19:43:58 <alise> Vorpal: compositing not enabled, probably
19:44:01 <Sgeo> That's a thing I like
19:44:13 <Vorpal> alise, indeed not enabled. It fucked up with virtualbox 3D accel last I tried
19:44:25 <fizzie> lifthrasiir: That's not calloc(0,6), that's calloc(65536,6).
19:44:32 <lifthrasiir> ah?
19:44:47 <lifthrasiir> Ah, I missed unsigned
19:45:31 <lifthrasiir> but then the global variable char r[65536*6]; will be a lot simpler and shorter.
19:45:43 <Vorpal> fizzie, can that bf interpreter successfully run lostking?
19:45:51 <alise> lifthrasiir: that may segfault on start
19:45:51 <Vorpal> fizzie, and what about the mandelbrot
19:45:54 <alise> depending on your stack
19:46:07 <Vorpal> alise, global var != on stack
19:46:09 <pikhq> alise: Global -- it's not on the stack.
19:46:10 <alise> maybe too small to be an issue
19:46:13 <alise> oh right
19:46:15 <alise> never mind them
19:46:16 <alise> *then
19:46:28 <Vorpal> it will be in the .bss segment probably
19:46:35 <Sgeo> The page says that the bubbles should blur
19:46:41 <pikhq> When loaded, it'll be on the heap.
19:46:41 <Sgeo> They don't do that unless the mouse is over them
19:47:03 <Sgeo> Oh, n/m
19:47:14 <Vorpal> Sgeo, that is when they should blur
19:47:15 <pikhq> Well, no, it'll be at a location the dynamic linker decides on.
19:47:25 <Vorpal> (well unless compositing is off, they they just go away completely)
19:47:29 <pikhq> s/dynamic linker/loader/
19:47:35 <pikhq> ... I'll just shut up now, okay?
19:48:15 <alise> Vorpal: specifically, they blur and go translucent in such a way as to make all text behind them perfectly legible
19:48:21 <alise> without making it look like it's just evaporated
19:48:27 <Vorpal> pikhq, well... I meant in the .bss segment in the ELF file. Obviously :P
19:48:36 <Vorpal> and I still think that will be the case on linux
19:48:41 <Vorpal> alise, indeed.
19:49:20 <Vorpal> alise, I kind of prefer not using compositing though. Especially considering every time I tried it on every computer I tried it, it caused shit with some opengl stuff.
19:49:27 <Vorpal> maybe I'm just unlucky
19:49:35 <alise> i'm a lucky bastard, being on intel graphics
19:49:39 <alise> everything works perfectly
19:49:49 <alise> also a bit of luck involved
19:49:55 <alise> but as i said, lucky bastard
19:50:07 <Vorpal> alise, my laptop uses intel graphics, there it where it caused shit with virtualbox gust 3d accel
19:50:15 <Sgeo> lucky bastard
19:50:15 <fizzie> lifthrasiir: I use the large number later to put the actual program after the tape. But really, I make no claims that it couldn't be shortened.
19:50:20 <Sgeo> intel graphics
19:50:23 <Sgeo> YOu're joking, right?
19:50:36 <Vorpal> alise, and 3D in general is shitty there, when I play NWN on it, some textures go all white and missing. Only in the expansion packs though.
19:50:48 <Vorpal> hm
19:50:53 <alise> Sgeo: intel graphics are awesome
19:50:58 <alise> as long as you don't do heavy gaming
19:50:58 <lifthrasiir> fizzie: well then that's fine. I just want to know the lower bound of size of such programs.
19:51:02 <alise> their linux support is superb
19:51:09 <alise> since intel are all open-sourcey
19:51:12 <alise> with their drivers
19:51:14 <Vorpal> alise, NWN is hardly heavy by today's standards though :P
19:51:20 <alise> and it uses all the new-fangled kernel magic
19:51:31 <alise> Vorpal: yeah well that's just linux for you
19:51:39 <fizzie> lifthrasiir: I've seen at least one that was <3*80 chars.
19:51:53 <Vorpal> alise, nwn runs perfectly on my desktop with nvidia though
19:52:13 <alise> damn nvidacs
19:52:39 <Sgeo> Is nvidia still better than ATI when it comes to Linux stuff?
19:52:44 <alise> logging in to the latest astronomy picture of the day is awesome :)
19:52:50 <Vorpal> alise, on the other hand, xrandr can't rotate screen on nividia closed source drivers
19:52:53 <alise> Sgeo: that trend sharply reversed for a while, when ATI opened their specs
19:52:58 <alise> then it zig-zagged
19:53:00 <alise> now they're about equal
19:53:05 <alise> intel is still better
19:53:14 <Vorpal> alise, for everything but 3D, intel is better.
19:53:34 <Sgeo> ...please note that 3d is one thing I kind of desire
19:53:41 <Sgeo> It might not be that obvious
19:53:44 <Vorpal> Sgeo, basic 3D stuff works
19:53:48 <Sgeo> I never really talk about 3d stuff
19:53:51 <Vorpal> like, 3D plots in mathematica
19:53:54 <Vorpal> or whatever
19:54:07 <alise> 3d is intel is fine
19:54:11 <alise> Vorpal is extrapolating from one game ;)
19:54:17 <alise> and i've never seen another problem report
19:54:27 <Vorpal> alise, no, warzone2100 is all black on intel graphics
19:54:30 <Vorpal> or was last I tried it
19:54:42 <Vorpal> when I asked I got the answer that it was a bug in the intel drivers
19:54:44 <Sgeo> Will Portal work on Intel graphics?
19:54:52 <alise> on windows, yes.
19:54:58 <alise> not on highest settings. of course.
19:55:00 <Vorpal> alise, and last I checked flightgear didn't like intel graphics at all.
19:55:05 <alise> intel graphics are still on-board chips
19:55:10 <Sgeo> alise, presumably newer than 945GM?
19:55:16 <alise> From what I read on Phoronix Canonical really did screw up the Intel driver experience for Jaunty, resulting in poor performance and numerous problems.
19:55:16 <alise> Since everyone having Intel is running Jaunty with an Intel card (cards which are known to work under other distributions) I'll bet this is the problem.
19:55:17 <alise> Vorpal: ^
19:55:22 <alise> for a problem report for warzone 2100
19:55:52 <Vorpal> alise, hm. last I checked warzone2100 on my laptop was on karmic, think it still had that issue there
19:56:01 <alise> later there's "This is as much a problem with the Intel drivers having poor OpenGL support" but then rebutted:
19:56:04 <alise> "That would be a good point EvilGuru if Warzone worked in previous Ubuntu versions, or if other games exhibited similar problems."
19:56:10 <alise> Vorpal: well, you know ubuntu.
19:56:18 <alise> they don't solve much in /one/ release.
19:56:23 <Vorpal> alise, touche
19:56:59 <alise> hrm, what can i do to get info about my gfx card? just the model name
19:57:01 <alise> do i need glxinfo?
19:57:15 * Sgeo wishes he wasn't stuck with Firefox
19:57:37 <alise> Sgeo: chrome.
19:57:45 <alise> Vorpal: warzone 2100 main menu WFM; do I need to start a game?
19:57:53 <Vorpal> alise, yes you need to start a game
19:57:57 <Sgeo> alise, Flash crashes
19:58:05 <Vorpal> alise, and get past any cut scene
19:58:09 <Sgeo> I think related to memory issues
19:58:09 <alise> http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap950616.html ;; totally glad I never automated astronomy picture of the day wallpaper-setting until two days ago
19:58:16 <Vorpal> (depends on if you installed cut scene data iirc)
19:58:17 <Sgeo> Is Firefox any lighter memory-wise than Chrome?
19:58:21 <alise> don't think i've ever had a square 204x204 monitor
19:58:23 <Sgeo> It would explain why Firefox works so much better
19:58:27 <alise> Sgeo: no, firefox is a huge memory hog.
19:58:32 <Sgeo> Hmm
19:58:38 <alise> i strongly suspect your hardware is fucked up to the point of instability.
19:58:43 <alise> try throwing the computer out of the window
19:58:51 <Sgeo> Keep in mind I have no swap space
19:58:53 <alise> Vorpal: groan; how can i skip a cut scene?
19:58:55 <alise> Sgeo: nor do I
19:58:58 <Sgeo> All memory is physical
19:58:58 <alise> well i do
19:59:02 <alise> but i didn't use to
19:59:02 <Sgeo> And I just have 1GB
19:59:06 <alise> irrelevant
19:59:06 <Vorpal> alise, um is that the awesome video you mean?
19:59:10 <alise> -/+ buffers/cache: 709100 3184864
19:59:12 <Vorpal> alise, I suspect esc will work
19:59:14 <Vorpal> or clicking
19:59:14 <alise> i'm only using 70.9 MiB right now
19:59:17 <alise> and no swap
19:59:50 <Vorpal> alise, if you don't have the videos installed, then it will dump you more or less straight into the game iirc
20:00:15 <alise> Vorpal: done
20:00:20 <alise> works fine, full 1366x768 resolution
20:00:24 <alise> no glitches at all
20:00:25 <Vorpal> alise, nice
20:00:28 <alise> WFM, Intel
20:00:30 <Sgeo> I'd say FlashBlock actually blocks Flash on Firefox, and just hides it on Chrome, but someone said that that's not the case anymore
20:00:42 <Vorpal> alise, I blame ubuntu and/or older kernel versions then
20:00:43 <alise> Sgeo: you are really good at cargo-culting
20:00:53 <alise> Vorpal: well i'm on ubuntu :P now let's see what card i have
20:01:00 <Vorpal> alise, lspci
20:01:03 <Vorpal> should list it
20:01:38 <Vorpal> "VGA compatible controller" perhaps or "Display Controller"
20:01:39 <Sgeo> Any CD burner programs that let me copy a CD without having HD space and without storing the whole thing in memory?
20:01:43 <Vorpal> alise, ^
20:01:46 <Sgeo> e.g. Put in disc 1, read a bit
20:01:48 <alise> "Oh well, I'm sure I want glxinfo anyway."
20:01:49 <alise> Sgeo: dd
20:01:50 <Sgeo> Disc 2, write a bit
20:01:53 <alise> duh
20:01:54 <alise> a bit? seriously?
20:01:57 <Sgeo> disc 1, read a bit
20:01:58 <alise> more like a meg or so at a time
20:02:06 <Sgeo> Not that sort of bit
20:02:13 <alise> dd on CDs is probably LOLUNRELIABLE but there you go
20:02:15 <Sgeo> "for a small amount"
20:02:18 <alise> (can you write to a CD-R file on linux?)
20:02:20 <Vorpal> Sgeo, not possible.
20:02:27 <Sgeo> Hmm, darn
20:02:32 <Vorpal> Sgeo, as in physically impossible
20:02:36 <alise> Vorpal: it probably is, with a lot of hacks
20:02:38 <Vorpal> considering how cds work
20:02:39 <alise> and going over old data a lot
20:02:51 <Vorpal> alise, well.. with CD-RW you could
20:02:52 <Vorpal> maybe
20:02:58 <pikhq> alise: dd on CDs works just fine unless there's really notable scratches on the disc.
20:03:12 <Vorpal> alise, but with CD-R, you can't you would need to make a new track, and write in track-at-once mode
20:03:13 <pikhq> alise: (to the point that you get file read errors if you mount it)
20:03:14 <alise> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 07)
20:03:14 <alise> 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 07)
20:03:16 <alise> Sooo unhelpful
20:03:20 <pikhq> alise: ddrescue can help there.
20:03:30 <Vorpal> alise, same as mine
20:03:32 <alise> Vorpal: pipe dd to dd in a way, then?
20:03:38 <alise> i.e. have it go continuously
20:03:44 <Vorpal> um
20:03:46 <alise> ah, wait
20:03:49 <alise> you'd have to buffer an entire track?
20:03:51 <alise> never mind then
20:03:56 <Vorpal> well you could copy cd with *two devices*
20:03:58 <pikhq> ... Wait, wait, wait. Sgeo: You want to do *that*? That's not going to work.
20:03:59 <Vorpal> that would work of course
20:04:01 <alise> duh
20:04:03 <alise> that's what he meant
20:04:05 <alise> surely
20:04:10 <Vorpal> I thought he meant same device
20:04:12 <alise> Sgeo: surely you meant with two drives
20:04:19 <Sgeo> No
20:04:25 <Sgeo> I meant I had wishful thinking
20:04:25 <Vorpal> one device won't work
20:04:32 <pikhq> Sgeo: CDs don't work that way.
20:04:37 <Vorpal> pikhq, exactly
20:04:54 <Sgeo> Ok ok, I get the point
20:05:01 <Vorpal> you have to write at least a track at once. And from what I remember... TAO mode is not very reliable
20:05:11 <pikhq> Vorpal: TAO is perfectly reliable.
20:05:14 <Sgeo> And got it sometime around <Vorpal> Sgeo, not possible.
20:05:17 <Vorpal> Sgeo, haven't you got a replacement hdd and rescued the old one already?
20:05:24 <pikhq> It just has certain limitations on doing audio.
20:05:26 <Sgeo> I started the rescue of the old one
20:05:29 <Vorpal> pikhq, ah okay
20:05:33 <Sgeo> I want to continue it on my old computer
20:06:05 <Sgeo> Will the version of ddrescue that Parted Magic has work with what I've already done on Ubuntu?
20:06:53 <pikhq> Sgeo: Which ddrescue is it?
20:06:56 <pikhq> (in both cases)
20:07:02 <alise> ubuntu is gnu ddrescue
20:07:03 <alise> with no _
20:07:21 <Sgeo> I _think_ Parted Magic's is also GNU
20:07:23 <alise> parted magic, i fear the worst.
20:07:25 <Sgeo> the binary has no _
20:07:34 <alise> should be fine then. also, your disk is way beyond any kind of recovery, dude.
20:07:47 <alise> unless you want to hex exit the resulting disk image to find your data
20:07:55 <alise> but you seem to have been going just fine in life without it
20:08:25 <Sgeo> Doesn't um.. .. some thingy look through the image for possible files?
20:09:15 <alise> Not really...
20:09:20 <alise> Not that I know of, at least.
20:09:29 <alise> Maybe those ext3grep things, but they're just for deleted files, not corrupted file systems.
20:09:45 <alise> There's also the fact that your partition table seems to be fucked up, a whole world of fun.
20:09:50 <pikhq> Could hack something up with libext2.
20:10:17 <Sgeo> I know Parted Magic has something that does that
20:11:24 <alise> parted magic gave me a pony then fellated my toaster
20:11:27 <alise> all before breakfast
20:11:37 <alise> pikhq: he has no ext2
20:11:39 <alise> just ntfs
20:11:41 <alise> with ~WUBI~ on it
20:12:09 <alise> Because keeping an ext3/4 partition as a file on an NTFS filesystem and then booting to it is a deliriously good idea!
20:12:40 -!- Flonk has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]).
20:12:47 <Sgeo> alise, when will you resume reading FS?
20:12:57 <alise> this weekend prolly
20:13:42 <alise> "How to Determine Which Graphics Card You Have on Ubuntu"
20:13:43 <alise> [...]
20:13:47 <alise> Anneliese Hinds said
20:13:54 <alise> I'm not sure what Ubuntu is but if I ever need to know about the graphics card I will certainly remember this article.
20:14:04 <alise> *clap clap clap*
20:14:41 <alise> (i'm trying to get something a bit more specific than the lspci line)
20:15:50 <alise> is there something like grep that just highlights the line like with --colour=force?
20:15:57 <Vorpal> alise, oh he uses ntfs? that will be tricky to recover with
20:16:02 <alise> Vorpal: yep!
20:16:16 <Vorpal> alise, I mean, ext3 or fat and it would have been easy
20:16:54 <Vorpal> alise, http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk maybe on the image. That is about all I can think of.
20:17:22 <fizzie> "less /var/log/Xorg.0.log" tends to have the most specific gfx card info.
20:18:04 <Vorpal> anyway, running ddrescue on a 350 GB disk took about 10 hours iirc? Though it could do the majority rather fast, only a few sectors were damaged and needed re-read with smaller chunk size to get the good bits back
20:18:44 <alise> fizzie: oh, of course
20:18:53 <alise> Vorpal: Sgeo cancelled it when he realised it was going to take HOURS upon HOURS
20:19:03 <Vorpal> <alise> is there something like grep that just highlights the line like with --colour=force? <-- what do you mean?
20:19:05 <alise> as opposed to rigorously copying a severely damaged disk in, say, three minutes
20:19:20 <Sgeo> alise, more like, a week
20:19:21 <Vorpal> alise, grep --color=force works iirc (yes it uses US spelling afaik)
20:19:23 <alise> Vorpal: well, here grep highlights the match with a colour and bold
20:19:23 <Sgeo> Or more
20:19:28 <alise> Vorpal: (--colour works too)
20:19:30 <alise> Vorpal: but i want
20:19:32 <alise> all the document
20:19:34 <alise> just with it highlighted
20:19:37 <alise> grep only shows the lines, plus context
20:19:40 <Vorpal> alise, -C 999999 ?
20:19:42 <alise> i want the whole document, with the matches highlighted
20:19:48 <alise> Vorpal: that would fail horribly for multiple matches
20:20:15 <pikhq> alise: Waitwaitwait, he has a broken *NTFS* file system?
20:20:18 <Vorpal> alise, how so? Afaik multiple matches where the context overlaps works just fine
20:20:22 <pikhq> Sgeo: Lost cause.
20:20:52 <Sgeo> pikhq, hmm?
20:20:57 <Vorpal> pikhq, there is testdisk. Could work
20:20:57 <pikhq> Unless you're going to hex edit or grep the drive for anything you want to recover, give up now.
20:21:09 <Vorpal> a very strange name for that tool
20:21:18 <Vorpal> should be called "undel" or something
20:21:19 <Sgeo> I _saw_ files when playing with TestDisk
20:21:19 <alise> "Testing disk... ... ...yup, it's broken."
20:21:24 <Sgeo> And the directory structure
20:21:26 <alise> you played with testdisk?
20:21:29 <alise> before rescuing the image?
20:21:30 <alise> on the actual drive?
20:21:36 <Vorpal> alise, yes he said so before
20:21:44 <Vorpal> and I told him back then he was an idiot doing it
20:21:55 <pikhq> Sgeo: Dude, you are a fucking *moron* when it comes to data recovery.
20:22:12 <Vorpal> he should just start in the morning with running ddrescue, then leave it
20:22:27 <alise> Sgeo: did you make sure to stomp on the drive three times and then douse it with coca-cola? this helps to liquidate the parts, meaning there'll be less scratching, making recovery easier
20:22:27 <Vorpal> until done, then do a second pass if needed as recommended by the manual
20:22:46 <pikhq> Sgeo: The whole *point* of doing the ddrescue is so you can play with a disk image instead of *ruining things more*.
20:23:08 <pikhq> Did you make sure to hit the drive with a baseball bat for a bit? Perhaps get a home run?
20:23:33 <alise> (--) intel(0): Chipset: "GM45"
20:23:33 <alise> #
20:23:35 <alise> *no #
20:24:04 <Vorpal> alise, GM45 looks plausible
20:24:06 <alise> The Mobile Intel® GM45 Express Chipset, featuring the Mobile Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator (GMA) 4500MHD, delivers:
20:24:06 <alise> Blu-ray* logo capable HD video playback, with native support for Blu-ray drives
20:24:06 <alise> Great 3D graphics performance, delivering over 3X scores on 3D Mark* 06◊
20:24:06 <alise> Intel® Clear Video Technology for excellent video quality
20:24:16 <alise> Best integrated card evar
20:24:25 <Vorpal> alise, 3X?
20:24:30 <Vorpal> 3X relative what
20:24:38 <alise> Vorpal: "our previous model in this range", probably
20:24:42 <Vorpal> ah
20:24:54 <alise> or, if the company is evil, "our least significant competitor's lowest model purposefully detuned" :-)
20:24:56 <Vorpal> alise, which is still waaay below nvidia or ati :P
20:25:14 <alise> it probably gets a damn good 3d mark for laptops
20:25:26 <alise> i imagine integrated cards are starting to catch up.
20:25:39 <Vorpal> alise, probably worse than laptops with geforce or similar
20:25:43 <Vorpal> there are such laptops
20:25:45 <alise> Vorpal: recent geforce, sure.
20:25:50 <alise> they also have 3 seconds battery life :)
20:25:58 <alise> anyway, i wouldn't play a super-mega-HD-3D game on my laptop.
20:26:00 <Vorpal> wrt evil: it is well known intel is evil. About every large enough company is.
20:26:12 <alise> keyboard insufficiently hefty, display insufficiently level and insufficiently large.
20:26:16 <Vorpal> alise, HD-HDR-3D you mean :P
20:26:24 <alise> this is why people have gaming computers :)
20:26:39 <alise> Vorpal: intel are evil but less evil than a lot of other companies
20:26:46 <alise> since they don't do an awful lot of marketing direct to the customer
20:26:59 -!- alise has left (?).
20:27:01 -!- alise has joined.
20:27:07 <alise> what i was going to say is
20:27:24 <alise> the "don't use AMD on this product line or we'll fuck you in the ass" sucked shit
20:27:32 <Vorpal> alise, hm
20:27:35 <alise> but i imagine that's well away from even the PR/marketing department
20:27:36 <alise> :P
20:27:43 <alise> (which would have come up with the 3x line)
20:28:21 <alise> there are those ruminations about on-CPU DRM, but what company hasn't researched something equally disgusting?
20:28:33 <alise> where's my Microsoft-backed Trusted Computing fascist state?
20:28:43 <alise> what would improve /my/ image of Intel is if they put VT-x on the lower-end processors
20:28:45 <alise> like AMD does
20:29:07 <Sgeo> VT-x == that virtualization thing, right?
20:29:11 <alise> yes.
20:29:30 <pikhq> alise: Intel & Microsoft were actually trying to *get* Trusted Computing going.
20:29:31 <Sgeo> How many end-users really care. I guess
20:29:41 <alise> pikhq: And they didn't.
20:29:44 <alise> It's always the same story.
20:29:52 <alise> Sgeo: a windows 7 user using XP Mode? :)
20:29:55 <alise> admittedly, that's a grand total of 0.4
20:30:10 <pikhq> alise: It fell through because only a complete idiot of an IT department would purchase it, and the consumer idiot is insufficiently profitable.
20:30:10 <alise> anyway, intel procs have a lot of things the end user doesn't directly care about
20:30:12 <alise> they're not end-user products
20:30:19 <alise> that's sort of the point
20:30:39 <alise> pikhq: Indeed.
20:30:53 <alise> pikhq: Besides,
20:30:56 <alise> "The Trusted Computing Group (TCG), successor to the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance (TCPA), is an initiative started by AMD, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Intel, and Microsoft to implement Trusted Computing. Many others followed."
20:31:09 <alise> Is that the glorious other processor company I see before me?
20:31:14 <alise> *Is this the
20:31:25 <pikhq> And yeah, Microsoft & Intel are merely the major leaders in the clusterfuck of stupidity.
20:31:41 <pikhq> It's pretty much every tech company that thinks that they can make bits uncopiable.
20:31:57 <alise> AMD are probably slightly less evil than Intel, but I have a feeling that's a very thoroughly preserved and crafted image
20:32:11 <alise> utilising their history as the guys who took intel processors and cloned them and made them better
20:32:11 <Sgeo> And make alternative OSes not runnable?
20:32:28 <alise> pikhq: besides, AMD have forgotten how to make processors recently :)
20:32:36 <pikhq> AMD's lesser evil comes courtesy of being the underdog in the market.
20:32:49 <alise> they're not that much of an underdog now, though
20:33:00 <Sgeo> Hmm, what was the exact command I ran?
20:33:04 <alise> i have a feeling that at some point the PR department made the VERY thought-out decision to carefully preserve this underdog image
20:33:05 <Sgeo> It should be in the logs
20:33:08 <alise> even as they grow to behemoth size
20:33:24 <pikhq> Well, yeah, with ATi now they are actually more than "those guys that just do 10% of x86 CPUs".
20:33:33 <alise> pikhq: the ATI brand is dead now :)
20:33:36 <alise> it's AMD Vision
20:33:41 <alise> Sgeo: --direct --max-retries=3
20:34:02 <alise> pikhq: also, i'm pretty sure the lowercase i is just a logotype convention, not the name of the brand
20:34:02 <pikhq> Still, they're kinda small in comparison to the behemoth that is Intel.
20:34:15 <alise> well, true. still
20:34:20 <Sgeo> alise, no, that's after I run N1> ddrescue --no-split /dev/sda imagefile logfile
20:34:31 <alise> oh yes
20:34:39 <alise> and then you try --retrim along with that
20:34:46 <alise> and then you cry and increase max-retries hopelessly
20:34:47 <Sgeo> You pastied something
20:34:49 <Vorpal> windows is a lot snappier when run in safe mode
20:34:50 <alise> yes
20:34:52 <alise> it was just those instructions
20:35:13 <alise> Vorpal: With MiniXP, it's like always running in safe mode, but without the ugly safe mode background watermark!
20:35:15 <Sgeo> Anyways, I guess I'll go open my old comp
20:35:20 <alise> With Micro2k, it's like 1995 in 2010!
20:35:23 <pikhq> alise: Intel has 7 times the revenue of AMD, currently.
20:35:31 <Vorpal> alise, hah
20:35:40 <Sgeo> Still don't have the external thingy, blargh
20:35:49 <alise> pikhq: And the US is 13.258 trillion dollars in debt.
20:35:52 <alise> Still a hyperpower.
20:36:27 <Phantom_Hoover> God why does Coq make it so hard to get decidable predicates
20:36:29 <Sgeo> Will a laptop HD safely go into a desktop?
20:37:00 <pikhq> alise: Intel also has 8 times the employees.
20:37:15 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: write them as boolean functions
20:37:20 <alise> then define a coercion from bool to prop
20:37:28 <Sgeo> Crap, I may have accidentally magnetized my screwdriver
20:37:36 <alise> Sgeo: probably. ha ha buy a new screwdriver.
20:37:39 <pikhq> Granted, AMD no longer owns chip fabs.
20:37:42 <alise> do not try and just screw the HD in quickly
20:37:44 <alise> with it
20:37:46 <alise> or i'll punch you
20:37:48 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, I shouldn't *HAVE* to define decidable equality for Z myself.
20:37:58 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: the standard library sucks; I suggest always reimplementing it
20:37:59 <Sgeo> It's the non-screwy end that got magnetized maybe
20:38:16 * Sgeo needs some metal to check with
20:38:22 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, I ought to tell zzo38.
20:38:47 <alise> this channel is the most ridiculous example of Flanderisation ever
20:38:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, there are various entertaining ways of demagnetising iron.
20:39:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Many of them involve violence.
20:39:15 <alise> "Stab the one you love."
20:39:22 <alise> "The curse will demagnetise it FOREVERMORE"
20:39:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Or electricity, or blowtorches.
20:39:31 <Sgeo> I hit it repeatedly on something
20:39:35 <pikhq> Or thermite.
20:39:53 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, makes it rather hard to screw things with afterwards.
20:39:54 <Sgeo> my HD
20:39:58 <Sgeo> (j/k)
20:40:01 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: True.
20:40:17 <alise> yes but there's a chance the HD will be nearby and get evaporated
20:40:22 <alise> and then this ordeal will be over for all of us
20:40:54 <Sgeo> How long does iron need to be near a magnet to get magnetized?
20:41:33 <Sgeo> Is this a common LCD thing?
20:41:47 <Sgeo> My old cell phone used to be like that too
20:42:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, it could be to hold it closed.
20:42:33 <Phantom_Hoover> And it depends on the strength of the magnet and probably the composition of the iron.
20:44:35 <Sgeo> Ok, laptop HDs seem to be a different size from desktop HDs
20:44:44 <Sgeo> I still haven't opened the desktop yet
20:45:07 <alise> so listening to five copies of bananaphone sped up at once, desynchronised
20:45:17 <alise> is the most cellular, modular, interactiveodular path to insanity ever
20:45:35 <alise> Sgeo: of course they're a different size
20:45:45 <alise> i sure hope you turned off the laptop first
20:46:19 <pikhq> What do you think he is, an idiot?
20:46:22 <pikhq> Oh, wait.
20:46:53 <Sgeo> The HD was out of the laptop for quite a while
20:48:46 <Sgeo> Do you honestly think I'd use the laptop with the HD in it _after you told me not to_?
20:48:51 * oerjan swats alise for claiming the channel is flounder-iced -----###
20:48:57 <Sgeo> I might be ignorant about this stuff, but I'm not stupid.
20:50:19 <oerjan> Sgeo: first impressions _are_ hard to reverse, i hear
20:52:05 <pikhq> We're talking to someone who dropped his hard drive and then used a recovery tool on the disk straight, rather than copying the drive as told to.
20:53:18 <Sgeo> wbc anc glucose
20:53:32 <alise> <Sgeo> wbc anc glucose
20:53:32 <alise> what
20:53:40 <Sgeo> I stopped touching the recovery tool when told to
20:53:40 <Sgeo> >.>
20:53:50 <Sgeo> alise, something I need to remember for a few min
20:56:37 <Sgeo> Will the laptop HD fit?
20:56:41 <Sgeo> In the desktop?
20:57:06 <alise> yes. it won't fit in the secure holder
20:57:11 <alise> but it will plug in and rest.
20:57:23 <alise> one of my computers has the hd just hanging :-)
20:57:27 <alise> the ooold one
20:57:27 <Sgeo> Um
20:57:33 <Sgeo> So it might incur even more damage?
20:57:42 <alise> not if you don't kick the fucking computer.
20:58:05 <Sgeo> I have pets. THe cat might jump on top of the computer
21:01:27 <Sgeo> Meh
21:01:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, any progress on the screwdriver?
21:03:53 <Phantom_Hoover> i.e. was it magnetised?
21:04:10 <Sgeo> It.. doesn't seem to have been
21:08:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Goodness, YouTube is a veritable font of magnetic insanity.
21:08:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Not the interesting insanity, either; the free energy sort.
21:13:16 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:13:49 <Gregor> One could even say it's a veritable fontAIN. Or fountain. Or any non-archaic word which hasn't been replaced with a totally new meaning.
21:14:52 <alise> has anyone here played The Neverhood?
21:15:08 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page
21:15:30 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: the great thing is that it has pages debunking such systems in thorough detail
21:15:34 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: and is written in a sane style
21:15:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah, it looked sane.
21:15:42 <alise> so you don't realise they're trying to break thermodynamics for about half an hour
21:15:52 <oerjan> fons asinorum
21:15:58 <alise> at least i think they're trying to
21:16:01 <alise> i'm not actually sure
21:16:06 <alise> they admit nothing so far actually even remotely works
21:17:46 <Phantom_Hoover> It looks on the surface as if they just want renewable energy...
21:19:31 <Phantom_Hoover> And then they go on to cold fusion. Ah.
21:20:12 <alise> i still hold out some hope for cold fusion
21:20:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Why?
21:20:36 <Phantom_Hoover> It's got no evidence.
21:20:40 <alise> same reason people believe in god :)
21:21:34 <Phantom_Hoover> http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Gravity_Motors
21:21:46 <Phantom_Hoover> And they hop right into crazyland.
21:22:25 <alise> *alleged*
21:22:28 <alise> they do a lot of pages that just rebut things
21:22:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah.
21:22:43 <Phantom_Hoover> So what's their overall stance?
21:22:55 <alise> i do think they're trying to break the laws of thermodynamics
21:23:02 <alise> just in a less crackpottish way
21:23:31 <Phantom_Hoover> There's a non-crackpottish way of getting around thermodynamics?
21:23:34 * Sgeo found a printout from Canada
21:23:38 <alise> i said less crackpottish
21:23:39 <oerjan> it's a motor of some gravity
21:23:41 <alise> not non-crackpottish
21:24:26 <alise> http://www.free-energy.ws/ ;; website of one of the editors
21:24:30 <alise> On this website, I will NOT be presenting any perpetual motion machines, futuristic ZPE technologies, or impossible inventions that break the Laws of Physics. What I will be talking about are technologies that tap into Natural Sources of energy in the environment and convert them into useful forms of energy for heat, light, and motive power.
21:24:43 <alise> still, they refer to some gravity machine type dealies as at least "interesting" on the wiki, if dismissing them all...
21:24:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, that's actually pretty sane.
21:25:00 <Phantom_Hoover> It's basically renewable energy research.
21:25:06 <Sgeo> Who defines what is a natural source and what isn't?
21:25:06 <alise> yes, but that's one member. and that's his site
21:25:24 <alise> Sgeo: a natural resource is a resource we didn't produce.
21:25:32 <alise> that was difficult!
21:25:48 <oerjan> so basically _all_ useful ones...
21:25:54 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: "I'm a firm believer in the idea that gravity and centrifugal force can be harnessed to produce an energy gain" he said. "The question is, has Chalkalis accomplished this yet or not?" -- that guy
21:25:55 <Vorpal> gravity motors look like crackpotish to me?
21:25:56 <alise> oerjan: indeed
21:26:05 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: so yeah, they're basically on the outskirts.
21:26:07 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, ah. Not so sane.
21:26:16 <alise> "No, this doesn't work, duh; ...but, you know, it could..."
21:26:22 <alise> http://gravityassistedpower.com/
21:26:25 <alise> haha
21:27:23 <alise> [[The Internet has been abuzz with an article that came out in a British newspaper, Somerset, announcing that an inventor in Wells "has put together a machine he claims is the first step in creating free energy from perpetual motion."
21:27:23 <alise> I wish people wouldn't describe free energy devices in this way. The energy is coming from somewhere. Just because the inventor or reviewer doesn't know where it is coming from, doesn't mean it's "perpetual motion." If anything, the best a "perpetual motion" machine could do it keep going, not produce excess power – unless it is harnessing that power from the environment somehow.]]
21:27:45 <Vorpal> <alise> http://gravityassistedpower.com/ <-- that one doesn't seem to claim to break thermodynamics
21:27:54 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Best_Exotic_Clean_Energy_Technologies
21:28:04 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, saw that.
21:28:11 <alise> http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Alpha_Omega_Galaxy_Freefall_Generator_(AOGFG)
21:28:23 <alise> it's quite a good read, really, just to look at all the close-misses
21:28:27 <alise> just as long as you don't trust what they say :)
21:28:42 <alise> i imagine the only other reviews of such devices are written by other people just as crackpottish
21:28:47 <alise> which obviously isn't very helpful
21:29:10 <Phantom_Hoover> That Chalkalis machine is ridiculous.
21:29:29 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm fairly confident I could pick it apart with high-school level mechanics.
21:29:39 <Vorpal> alise, what about harnessing vacuum energy? Probably a crackpottish idea bit it looks like it just *might* have a tiny chance of getting around thermodynamics
21:29:42 <alise> which one is that?
21:29:56 <alise> also, devil's advocado: the world doesn't work according to high-school mechanics
21:30:11 <alise> Vorpal: i don't see how it gets around thermodynamics
21:30:22 <Vorpal> alise, hm, maybe not
21:30:31 <Phantom_Hoover> It doesn't, but you can't engineer around them with some struts and wheels.
21:30:31 <alise> Using the upper limit of the cosmological constant physicists[1] have calculated the vacuum energy in a cubic centimeter of free space to be one trillionth of an erg. However, in both Quantum Electrodynamics (QED) and Stochastic Electrodynamics (SED), consistency with the principle of Lorentz invariance and with the magnitude of the Planck Constant requires it to have a much larger value of 10^107 Joules per cubic centimeter or 10^113 Joules per cubic mete
21:30:31 <alise> r.
21:30:59 <alise> damn the different units
21:31:11 <Vorpal> heh
21:31:15 <Vorpal> alise, not a lot of power anyway
21:31:18 <alise> haha google can convert it
21:31:25 <alise> so the amount of energy in a cubic meter
21:31:27 <alise> of vacuum
21:31:32 <alise> is between 10^-13 joules and 10^113 joules
21:31:46 <alise> "1 trillionth of an erg per cubic centimeter in joules per cubic meter"
21:31:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, that narrows it down.
21:31:49 <fizzie> I would like to see some clean-energy plans that would hinge on unsigned quantities and wraparound; that sounds much more realistic to me.
21:31:49 <alise> google actually understands this
21:31:50 <Vorpal> alise, that is quite a huge range
21:31:53 <alise> how awesome is that
21:31:54 <Sgeo> Back of old computer: http://i.imgur.com/DOXWb.jpg
21:32:01 <Vorpal> alise, and 10^113 is extremely large
21:32:02 <Phantom_Hoover> It's even more specific than Graham's proof!
21:32:07 <alise> Vorpal: well it depends on what you think of QED
21:32:08 <alise> :P
21:32:21 <Vorpal> alise, I don't know. :P
21:32:33 <Sgeo> Will blowing on it be enough?
21:32:40 <Vorpal> alise, also what about the cosmological constant?
21:32:40 <Sgeo> Do I need to get a vacuum?
21:32:45 <Vorpal> alise, why should I trust that more
21:33:26 <alise> what has that got to do with anything?
21:33:33 <alise> Sgeo: blowing it will push it /in/
21:33:34 * Sgeo pokes Vorpal and alise
21:33:43 <Sgeo> I meant, when it's opened
21:33:53 <alise> use a vacuum
21:34:04 <Vorpal> <alise> what has that got to do with anything? <--- because you quoted it
21:34:15 <Vorpal> "<alise> Using the upper limit of the cosmological constant physicists[1] have calculated the vacuum energy in a cubic centimeter [...]"
21:34:43 <alise> yes, and i also quoted the bit that says QED contradicts it
21:34:53 <alise> so it depends on your position of QED
21:35:25 <Vorpal> <Sgeo> Do I need to get a vacuum? <-- um, vacuum? Not in a computer. Compressed air is probably a better idea. Well on the back there would be no issues. And probably you want a vacuum a bit away so you don't get all that in your lungs
21:35:45 <Vorpal> alise, and on your position on the cosmological constant
21:35:47 <fizzie> (Also, disaster movies based on some physicist experiment that pokes a vacuum, accidentally underflows some variable, and releases 2^(2^(2^16))) units of energy. Though I guess that might be a short movie.)
21:36:02 <Sgeo> I have a can of compressed air, but don't know how much is in it
21:36:03 <Vorpal> fizzie, XD
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21:36:16 <Vorpal> Sgeo, well, I would vacuum the back of the computer first
21:36:17 <alise> vacuum in a computer won't be too horrible
21:36:29 <alise> well
21:36:30 <alise> oh
21:36:31 <alise> inside it?
21:36:34 <alise> that's stupid
21:36:38 <Vorpal> exactly
21:36:38 <alise> but on the outside
21:36:41 <alise> *vacuum on a computer
21:36:43 <alise> typo made me look stupid :D
21:37:16 <fizzie> Once used a vacuum on a keyboard and it ate three keys; silly loose keycaps.
21:37:35 <Vorpal> Sgeo, what I would do when I opened it, would be to keep a vacuum cleaner running some 20 cm away or such, then use compressed air on the components. I would not want to breath that stuff in, and the vacuum cleaner a bit back should take care of that
21:37:51 <Vorpal> vacuum the outside though, that should work fine, just mind the connectors
21:37:53 <Sgeo> At the school district, we used to vacuum the insides of computers with a special vacuum
21:38:20 <Sgeo> If I leave it as is, will it catch fire?
21:38:22 <Vorpal> mhm, _if_ that was a good idea then I like to point out the key word "special"
21:38:47 <Vorpal> clean it anyway, I don't know if it will catch fire
21:38:51 <Vorpal> but you clean computers anyway
21:38:55 <Vorpal> you don't leave them like that
21:39:05 <Vorpal> you don't let them get that dusty in the first place
21:39:13 <Sgeo> Can I blow on it instead of compressed air
21:39:14 <Sgeo> ?
21:39:45 <Vorpal> Sgeo, you want saliva on the PCBs?
21:39:51 <Vorpal> bad idea
21:40:29 <Vorpal> Sgeo, even without saliva, air breathed out is rather wet
21:40:35 <Sgeo> Ok
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21:41:23 <Vorpal> alise, you need to stop assuming Sgeo means the "sane" thing when he asks something ambiguous. Generally he don't :P
21:41:33 <Vorpal> alise, this was the second time today
21:42:11 <alise> *doesn't
21:42:20 <Vorpal> yeah typo
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21:42:44 <Sgeo> Just to be clear, this imbicility only applies to actual hardware..ness
21:43:05 <Vorpal> Sgeo, which is bad enough
21:43:06 <Sgeo> I am fully competent when it comes to software.. I think
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21:50:00 <alise> Sgeo: dude. PSOX.
21:50:23 <Sgeo> I think PSOX's biggest problem was marketing
21:50:39 <Sgeo> Overzealous marketing
21:51:06 <alise> v fortune-cookie-db -
21:51:06 <alise> v fortune-coookie-db -
21:51:14 <alise> Sgeo: and terrible architecture
21:51:27 <Sgeo> Howso?
21:51:54 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
21:51:56 <Sgeo> Oh, too BF-specific
21:52:03 <Vorpal> <alise> v fortune-coookie-db - <-- ?
21:52:34 <alise> Vorpal: from "aptitude search fortune"
21:52:42 <Vorpal> alise, ah.
21:52:43 <alise> ehird@dinky:~$ sudo aptitude install fortune-mod fortunes-min fortunes fortunes-off fortunes-bofh-excuses fortunes-spam
21:52:48 <Vorpal> alise, okay thats very strange
21:52:53 <Vorpal> coookie?
21:53:02 <alise> yeah i have no idea :D
21:53:14 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67E-_SQLVRo
21:53:31 <Sgeo> ^^not a Fine Structure spoiler
21:54:41 <Vorpal> alise, is one a transitional package or something?
21:54:51 <alise> probably some name added accidentally in 1994
21:54:54 <alise> and kept for upgrade compatibility
21:54:57 <alise> v so virtual
21:54:59 <alise> so provided by another
21:55:06 <Vorpal> aha
21:55:11 <alise> No current or candidate version found for fortune-coookie-db
21:55:11 <alise> Package: fortune-coookie-db
21:55:11 <alise> State: not a real package
21:55:11 <alise> Provided by: fortunes-spam
21:55:12 <Vorpal> well both were virtual
21:55:30 <alise> fortune-cookie-db is provided by all the packages
21:55:32 <alise> including localised
21:55:39 <alise> i.e. it's "has at least one cookie db"
21:56:13 <Vorpal> hah
21:56:59 <Sgeo> No one fell for my trap?
21:57:18 <alise> ehird@dinky:~$ fortune -o
21:57:18 <alise> My haircut is totally traditional!
21:57:25 <alise> That's ... so offensive...
21:58:04 <alise> Sgeo: the theme is so terrible
21:58:06 <alise> it just sounds like noise
21:58:36 <alise> they need to take a lesson from the experts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVp-zIONsrs
21:58:46 <alise> in children's cartoons
21:58:52 <alise> 's theme songs
21:58:58 <alise> well, 's english theme songs
22:01:30 <fizzie> Ooh, our work-workstations have "fortune -o" returning "No fortunes found"; they've installed only "fortune-min", not the offensives.
22:01:48 <Sgeo> Aww
22:01:56 <Sgeo> fortune isn't installed at school
22:02:54 <fizzie> They don't want to encourage such frivolity.
22:03:00 <Sgeo> Ubuntu should just detect webcams, right?
22:03:15 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
22:03:51 <fizzie> In the same sense that everything should just work, right.
22:06:49 <Sgeo> Yeah, it's not working
22:07:32 <Phantom_Hoover> fortune -o is strangely compelling...
22:07:37 <alise> i wonder if the neverhood works in wine
22:07:53 <Phantom_Hoover> For some reason, any quotes on evolution seem to be in it.
22:08:01 <Phantom_Hoover> This annoys me immensely.
22:08:23 * Sgeo just wants to read the fortunes online
22:08:36 <alise> ehird@dinky:~$ fortune -o
22:08:36 <alise> Hardly a pure science, history is closer to animal husbandry than it is to
22:08:36 <alise> mathematics, in that it involves selective breeding. The principal difference
22:08:36 <alise> between the husbandryman and the historian is that the former breeds sheep
22:08:36 <alise> or cows or such, and the latter breeds (assumed) facts. The husbandryman uses
22:08:37 <alise> his skills to enrich the future; the historian uses his to enrich the past.
22:08:39 <alise> Both are usually up to their ankles in bullshit.
22:08:41 <alise> -- Tom Robbins
22:09:21 <alise> ehird@dinky:~$ fortune -o
22:09:21 <alise> Q:What do you call a dog with no legs?
22:09:21 <alise> A:What does it matter? He can't come anyway.
22:09:25 <alise> it was funnier when i interpreted that sexually
22:09:44 <alise> (listed after it, elided to not flood: [I've got a dog with no legs -- I call him Cigarette. /Every night, I take him out for a drag. Ed.])
22:10:02 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: it has all religion-sensitive things marked as potentially offensive
22:10:09 <alise> ehird@dinky:~$ fortune -o
22:10:09 <alise> I call Christianity the one great curse, the one enormous and innermost
22:10:09 <alise> perversion, the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are
22:10:09 <alise> too venomous, too underhand, too underground and too petty -- I call it
22:10:09 <alise> the one immortal blemish of mankind.
22:10:10 <alise> -- Fredrich Nietzsche
22:10:12 <alise> for obvious reasons
22:10:19 <alise> now this one:
22:10:21 <alise> ehird@dinky:~$ fortune -o
22:10:21 <alise> "Surely investigation is better than unthinking faith.
22:10:22 <alise> Surely reason is a better guide than fear."
22:10:24 <alise> [Robert G. Ingersoll, "The
22:10:26 <alise> Liberty of Man, Woman and Child"]
22:10:28 <alise> *that's* funny
22:10:28 <Sgeo> http://fortunes.cat-v.org/
22:10:30 <Sgeo> Uuh
22:10:36 <alise> Sgeo: uuh?
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22:10:45 <Sgeo> I don't see Debian there
22:10:48 <Sgeo> Is this an old site
22:10:56 <alise> no
22:10:57 <alise> it's uriel's
22:11:14 <Sgeo> WHat section would the stuff that Ubuntu has be?
22:11:19 * Sgeo feels weird saying has be
22:11:23 <alise> none of them. try the freebsd one
22:11:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Some pared down bit.
22:11:35 <Phantom_Hoover> fortunes is alright, I think.
22:11:51 <alise> although they're on the long side
22:11:59 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: fortune-mod fortunes-min fortunes fortunes-off fortunes-bofh-excuses fortunes-spam
22:12:01 <alise> gets you all the good stuff
22:12:03 <alise> all the english stuff, that is
22:12:18 <alise> http://fortunes.cat-v.org/kernelnewbies/ ;; this has a lot of Torvalds snarkiness
22:12:27 <Sgeo> "For those of you in the reseller business, here is a helpful tip that will
22:12:27 <Sgeo> save your support staff a few hours of precious time. Before you send your
22:12:28 <Sgeo> next machine out to an untrained client, change the permissions on /etc/passwd
22:12:28 <Sgeo> to 666 and make sure there is a copy somewhere on the disk. Now when they
22:12:28 <Sgeo> forget the root password, you can easily login as an ordinary user and correct
22:12:28 <Sgeo> the damage. Having a bootable tape (for larger machines) is not a bad idea
22:12:30 <Sgeo> either. If you need some help, give us a call."
22:12:37 <Sgeo> Someday, someone is going to do that
22:13:27 <fizzie> alise: What, you don't recommend fortunes-ubuntu-server? :p
22:13:35 <fizzie> "This package provides a set of tips on using Ubuntu server, in a fortune database format."
22:13:37 <fizzie> Who would pass that!
22:13:47 <alise> fizzie: There's an Ubuntu tips one, too.
22:13:58 <alise> But I prefer to have fortune(1) always spew out a waste of time. :-)
22:14:07 <alise> If fortune ever makes you more productive, it's failing at its job.
22:15:01 <alise> the limericks are terribly crass :)
22:15:04 <alise> ehird@dinky:~$ fortune -o
22:15:04 <alise> There was a young girl in Berlin
22:15:04 <alise> Who eked out a living through sin.
22:15:04 <alise> She didn't mind fucking,
22:15:04 <alise> But much preferred sucking,
22:15:05 <alise> And she'd wipe off the pricks on her chin.
22:15:42 <alise> ehird@dinky:~$ fortune -o
22:15:42 <alise> Tourist to New Yorker:
22:15:42 <alise> "Pardon me, sir, do you know what time it is, or should I
22:15:42 <alise> just go fuck myself?"
22:16:06 <alise> ehird@dinky:~$ fortune -o
22:16:06 <alise> NATHAN ... your PARENTS were in a CARCRASH!! They're VOIDED -- They
22:16:06 <alise> COLLAPSED They had no CHAINSAWS ... They had no MONEY MACHINES ... They
22:16:06 <alise> did PILLS in SKIMPY GRASS SKIRTS ... Nathan, I EMULATED them ... but
22:16:06 <alise> they were OFF-KEY ...
22:16:07 <alise> i'll stop now
22:20:25 <Sgeo> Argh
22:20:33 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined.
22:20:35 <Sgeo> I don't see that in this FreeBSD stuff
22:20:43 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:23:01 <alise> Sgeo: it's not the same file. deal
22:23:16 * Sgeo wants to see the file online somewhere :/
22:27:59 <alise> [[As a result of earlier unauthorized sales to civilians, the Department of Defense requires that
22:27:59 <alise> U.S. Government Property, Commercial Resale is Unlawful
22:27:59 <alise> be printed on each case of MREs.[10] Despite the disclaimer, there are no laws that forbid the resale of MREs.]]
22:28:16 <alise> pikhq: Do the army really print "Commercial resale is unlawful" on an item that can be legally commercially resold?
22:28:17 <alise> REALLY?
22:29:02 <pikhq> alise: They're morons, yes.
22:29:36 <alise> pikhq: Isn't printing such a ridiculously and blatantly false statement illegal too? OH WAIT IT'S THE GOVERNMENT :P
22:30:04 <pikhq> Nope, it's not illegal to lie.
22:32:41 <alise> Yeah.
22:32:50 <alise> pikhq: And I guess it doesn't really fall under false advertising or whatever...
22:32:59 <alise> ...this is where you tell me "Actually, false advertising is perfectly legal in the US!".
22:34:50 <pikhq> alise: Are you familiar with Fox News?
22:35:10 <alise> Is that really advertising?
22:35:21 <pikhq> The name suggests it's "news", and thus true.
22:35:29 <alise> Fair and Balanced.
22:35:31 <pikhq> They got sued for false advertising because of that, and won the case.
22:35:43 <alise> At least it's meant to be illegal, then?
22:36:04 <pikhq> It's *meant* to be illegal to do false advertising, yes.
22:36:10 <alise> At least there's that.
22:36:23 <pikhq> But it's a civil matter, and our courts are fucked up as hell.
22:36:37 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillarbox ;; didn't know these had names
22:39:03 <Sgeo> *** System shutdown message from root ***
22:39:03 <Sgeo> System going down in 60 seconds
22:39:11 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_Channel#Obama_administration_criticism_of_Fox_News
22:39:11 <Sgeo> ^^just a mean thing to put in a fortune
22:41:12 <pikhq> alise: I don't think you realise just how very bad Fox News *is*.
22:41:19 <alise> Oh I do.
22:41:23 <alise> Believe me I do.
22:41:45 -!- cpressey has joined.
22:41:53 <pikhq> Oh, right, you guys also have Murdoch.
22:42:04 <alise> At least nobody actually trusts The Sun.
22:42:11 <alise> Well ... apart from people who read The Sun.
22:42:17 <alise> And they mostly read it for the tits.
22:42:24 <alise> I'm not sure all of them can actually read.
22:42:52 <pikhq> Whereas here people actually trust Fox as their only source of news.
22:43:00 <pikhq> Imagine if your world view was defined by the Sun.
22:43:03 <alise> pikhq: I need help; my brain is auto-designing a VCS. Stop it.
22:43:19 <alise> pikhq: well, there are many people who have their world view defined by the Daily Mail
22:43:22 <alise> which is pretty damn bad
22:44:18 <Phantom_Hoover> AAAAAA
22:44:57 -!- MigoMipo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:45:10 <pikhq> HONEST TO GOD.
22:45:25 <alise> :D
22:45:35 <alise> Joybubbles v. Fox News
22:45:40 <alise> fought with giant mechas
22:45:41 <pikhq> He apparently gave kids a "sense of entitlement".
22:45:45 <alise> someone get the anime series commissioned for that
22:46:50 <pikhq> (In case you're unaware: Mr. Rogers is probably the least evil man to have walked the earth.)
22:47:06 <cpressey> pikhq, will you be my neighbour?
22:47:12 <Vorpal> pikhq, Mr rogers?
22:47:13 <cpressey> or neighbor or however it's spelled here?
22:47:17 <alise> cpressey: Yes.
22:47:23 <alise> Sorry, I'm answering instead of pikhq.
22:47:24 <Vorpal> pikhq, who is that
22:47:27 <pikhq> cpressey: Neighbor or neighbour are both valid, I think.
22:47:35 <pikhq> Vorpal: You... I... What?
22:47:35 <alise> pikhq can't speak right now because i said so.
22:47:42 <pikhq> Vorpal: YOU ARE AMERICAN
22:47:47 <pikhq> Vorpal: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Bwsweep.jpg
22:47:50 <alise> Vorpal: the winner of the ultimate showdown.
22:47:58 <alise> `addquote <pikhq> Vorpal: YOU ARE AMERICAN
22:48:04 <HackEgo> 226|<pikhq> Vorpal: YOU ARE AMERICAN
22:48:06 <alise> The newest entry in the "blatantly factually inaccurate quotes" series.
22:48:17 <pikhq> alise: Hah.
22:48:32 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, MR ROGERS IS EVIL‽
22:48:34 <pikhq> Fucking memory, making me forget he's not American.
22:48:35 <Sgeo> I am skilled at computer hardware repair
22:48:41 <Phantom_Hoover> I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE IN
22:48:47 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: FLOWERS
22:48:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, my worldview is falling apart!
22:48:55 <alise> pikhq: Sweden, America; what's the difference?
22:49:04 <alise> <Sgeo> I am skilled at computer hardware repair
22:49:06 <alise> Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnno.
22:49:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Ais will be announcing the spec for Feather any time soon!
22:49:16 <pikhq> Vorpal: He did a children's TV show on PBS for 50 years.
22:49:21 <Phantom_Hoover> The HURD will be usable!
22:49:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, when people stole his car, they gave it back when they realised it was him. *With the petrol tank filled.*
22:50:04 <Phantom_Hoover> The Forth Bridge will be painted!
22:50:07 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Hey, Debian/kHURD boots GNOME.
22:50:08 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: And a letter of apology.
22:50:09 <alise> Like, properly.
22:50:18 <alise> Gregor runs it on his laptop, I think, or did at one point, for the hell of it.
22:50:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:50:31 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought it was terribly unstable.
22:50:35 <alise> Now Debian/kHURD on Itanium... I'd like that.
22:50:39 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Well, it has no USB support, :P
22:50:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, I can believe in that.
22:51:02 <alise> *support :P
22:54:03 <Gregor> alise: I never ran it out of a VM.
22:54:15 <Gregor> alise: For giggles I once had that VM as my "primary" interface for a short bit.
22:54:23 <Gregor> But it was still a VM :P
22:54:25 <alise> Like me and Windows 95!
22:55:17 <pikhq> It's a pity DOS doesn't multitask. It'd be amusing to spend a couple hours with DOS as my primary interface. :P
22:55:24 <alise> TSR IRC
22:55:43 <Gregor> alise: I doubt very highly that that exists :P
22:55:52 <pikhq> ... Waaaiiiittt a second. Windows 3.1 can run Win32 programs.
22:55:58 <Gregor> Although you could probably use $NAME_OF_THAT_ONE_ARACHNID_THEMED_WEB_BROWSER_HERE.
22:55:58 <cpressey> desqview dammit
22:56:00 <pikhq> I could maybe run Opera on Windows 3.1
22:56:02 <Gregor> pikhq: No.
22:56:04 <alise> Fine; tweak with the kernel to insert IRC code into each interrupt.
22:56:06 <Gregor> pikhq: It can run Win32s programs.
22:57:13 <pikhq> Argh, distinctions
22:57:52 <Gregor> It's not a small distinction.
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23:17:36 <cpressey> zzo38, if I were to write a substantial text adventure, would it be best if it was written in: a) Inform (compiled to Z5); b) assembly language; c) C; or d) an esolang?
23:17:56 <cpressey> i could use guidance here.
23:18:25 <alise> e) You should invent your own interactive fiction language!
23:18:31 <alise> cpressey: Inform 6 or 7?
23:18:39 <cpressey> 6
23:18:45 <alise> cpressey: But 7 is fun! In a scary kind of way.
23:18:52 <alise> zzo38 has made a text adventure language
23:18:54 <cpressey> inventing my own language also occurred to me
23:18:55 <alise> so you can predict the answer
23:19:01 <alise> TAVSYS or something
23:19:02 <alise> TADVSYS?
23:19:21 <cpressey> oh -- i thought that was something he had extended, like Enhanced CWEB
23:19:54 <cpressey> i only remember it is related to forth somehow. so yes that actually makes more sense.
23:20:02 <alise> it /may/ be an extended TADS
23:21:57 <cpressey> sadly there is no good answer to this. therefore my masterpiece of interactive fiction will as yet go unwritten.
23:24:07 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:25:07 <cpressey> well. actually, I'll eliminate b) and d). whatever cool factor might be obtained from either, would be fine, but would not be the objective.
23:25:33 <Sgeo> So, once my dad wakes up, I'll vacuum, open comp, compressed air, put HD in
23:25:39 * alise tries to find it on ZZO38COMPUTER
23:25:43 <alise> i wonder if it's gopher-only
23:25:49 <alise> Sgeo: why wait for your dad
23:26:01 <Sgeo> alise, because I don't know where the compressed air is
23:26:06 <alise> so search for it
23:26:25 <pikhq> He'll probably tell you the compressed air will give your computer viruses.
23:26:32 <Sgeo> pikhq, he's not that dumb
23:26:58 <Sgeo> And afaict, he's actually reasonably competent when it comes to computer hardware
23:28:21 <alise> just search for it yourself
23:33:21 -!- nooga has joined.
23:38:03 <alise> There's a Dewey decimal class just for induction.
23:38:08 <alise> In the logic section.
23:38:45 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/tavsys/
23:39:26 <zzo38> alise: I try to make most files accessible over the internet to use all applicable protocols. (There are some that are only sensible on one protocol)
23:39:44 <alise> No links to it though.
23:39:47 <alise> cpressey: There's your answer.
23:40:17 <alise> zzo38: .tav is a binary file?
23:40:26 <zzo38> Standard adventure game library is not created much yet (it is not available yet), but you can write your own library (and then INCLUDE it)
23:40:28 <alise> INCLUDE :oasys.4th INCLUDE ESCAPE
23:40:30 <zzo38> alise: Yes, .tav is a binary file.
23:40:35 <alise> Is that actually an interpreter for another adventure game system?
23:40:57 <alise> You've converted a game with a vaguely C-ish/Perlish syntax into your Forth-based system just by writing a library for it?
23:41:01 <zzo38> Yes, the file oasys.4th is an interpreter for another adventure game system.
23:41:14 <alise> cpressey: ^^^
23:41:14 <zzo38> alise: And yes, I have done that just by writing a library for it.
23:41:35 <alise> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/tavsys/lib/oasys.4th
23:41:38 <alise> How is it so short?
23:41:52 <zzo38> And it is not even an ordinary library, it treats the *binaries* from OASYS as source code!!
23:42:30 <cpressey> yes. i see it. this is fascinating.
23:43:05 <zzo38> alise: Because it is short. My question is why other programs are so long!
23:43:28 <alise> <zzo38> And it is not even an ordinary library, it treats the *binaries* from OASYS as source code!!
23:43:29 <alise> Now that is awesome.
23:44:06 <alise> zzo38: have you got an example of an actual game in pure tavsys?
23:44:21 <cpressey> and what forth would be needed to build/bootstrap this?
23:45:05 <zzo38> cpressey: You only need a C compiler (unless you have Windows, in which case you don't even need that).
23:45:50 <zzo38> I have no example of an actual game in pure TAVSYS sorry. (Except for a sokoban game, but that isn't a text adventure game)
23:46:40 <zzo38> cpressey: Actually if you don't have windows, you also need to modify it to work on your operating system (the Glk startup code requires changes for each operating system it is ported to).
23:46:43 <cpressey> ah. finally found the C source.
23:48:27 <alise> 'N bjd s ' tp' 'f wrtng sstm 'n whch 'ch smbl 'lws 'r 'slly' stnds fr ' cnsnnt; th' rdr mst sppl' th' 'pprprt' vwl.
23:48:57 <alise> zzo38: A sokoban game would work.
23:49:42 <alise> ' skbn gm' wld wrk.
23:50:21 <zzo38> alise: http://sprunge.us/iSCa
23:50:59 -!- Gol has joined.
23:51:03 <alise> zzo38: Thnk ' vr' mch.
23:51:05 <Gol> Helloooo
23:51:20 <alise> zzo38: 'T 's 'n 'ntrstng sstm.
23:51:28 <alise> Gol: Hll'.
23:51:36 <Gol> Hi slide
23:51:46 <Gol> Sorry alise
23:52:00 <alise> * slide :Nickname is already in use.
23:52:01 <alise> 'Ww.
23:52:18 <Gol> Ohhhh
23:52:24 <zzo38> If I ever made more modifications to the C codes of TAVSYS, I might convert the codes to Enhanced CWEB.
23:52:27 <alise> Trnng 'Nglsh 'nt' 'n 'bjd 's ' pn.
23:52:39 <alise> ' m' stp dng 't.
23:53:05 <alise> zzo38: Cn ' 'ndrstnd m' mssgs?
23:53:12 <Gol> Ohhhhh wwhat kinda language u people are talkin
23:53:21 <cpressey> alise: all except "'bjd"
23:53:39 <cpressey> *'l 'xpt
23:53:54 <cpressey> *'xcpt?
23:53:56 <alise> Gol: Mnspk.
23:54:03 <alise> Gol: It is an esoteric code.
23:54:03 <Gol> I see its computer language
23:54:07 <alise> It helps us gain enlightenment.
23:54:10 <Gol> Okkk
23:54:15 <zzo38> alise: I can understand a little bit but not much sorry
23:54:19 <alise> We use it to further our self-stabbing endeavours.
23:54:22 <alise> What brings you here, Gol?
23:54:27 <alise> (If it's computers, we do that too.)
23:54:38 <Gol> I cant undrestand any of this
23:54:40 <alise> cpressey: 'xcpt, ys.
23:54:52 <alise> Gol: That is perfectly fine. Would you like to be initiated?
23:55:01 <Gol> I dont know i just joined the room
23:55:16 <alise> Gol: Okay. What brings you here, Disciple?
23:55:19 <alise> Again, we do computers on the side.
23:55:23 <alise> Like fries with a fast-food order.
23:55:29 <Gol> Loooool
23:55:54 <zzo38> Gol: We do a lot of stuff in here, but the topic is esoteric programming language. But, it is not always on topic
23:56:12 <Gol> Ahhha i see
23:56:35 <Gol> Goood luck anyway
23:56:39 -!- myndzi has joined.
23:56:55 -!- Gol has left (?).
23:57:06 <alise> Vrl', ' wll frthrmr' spk 'n ths tng'.
23:57:18 <alise> 'T kps th' nwbs 'w'.
23:58:36 <lifthrasiir> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! crazy network!
23:59:24 -!- myndzi\ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:59:27 <lifthrasiir> I just lost my journal post for that and have rewritten it
23:59:30 <lifthrasiir> heck
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