←2010-10-08 2010-10-09 2010-10-10→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:00:02 <alise> wow, i like how that appeared after the larry wall comment
00:00:07 <alise> "Isn't Larry Wall something too?" "Naked!"
00:00:10 <cpressey> yeah, i was just going to say
00:00:14 <alise> Larry Wall is just plain Christian
00:00:23 <alise> however
00:00:24 <alise> "While in graduate school at UC Berkeley, Wall and his wife were studying linguistics with the intention afterwards of finding an unwritten language, perhaps in Africa, and creating a writing system for it. They would then use this new writing system to translate various texts into the language, among them the Bible."
00:00:36 <cpressey> oh yes
00:00:42 <cpressey> a biblinguist
00:00:44 <alise> Give a native culture a language... and a new religion!
00:00:49 <cpressey> they're fun
00:01:01 <alise> Never mind trying to bring them into the enlightened, scientific age. Or leaving them alone; no! We'll EVOLVE their backwardsness.
00:01:09 <alise> Erm. CREATE their backwardsness! No, wait, that's not right... DAMN YOU DARWIN!
00:01:43 <Phantom_Hoover> We'll bring advanced Western backwardsness to them!
00:01:53 <alise> Thankfully, Perl is both crazy and Wall a bit loopy.
00:01:59 <alise> So no cognitive dissonance!
00:03:00 * pikhq can has ie6, ie7, and ie8 app-specific VMs!
00:03:07 <pikhq> Erm.
00:03:10 <pikhq> Wine installs.
00:03:12 <pikhq> Not VMs.
00:03:19 <alise> *DIFFERENT PAINS
00:03:20 <pikhq> alise: INDEED
00:03:38 <alise> "A scale model of the Universe is not actually that hard to make. If you make a model the size of a basketball, then to scale everything in the Universe is smaller than an atom, so there's no need to even bother putting it in there.
00:03:38 <alise> So just take a spherical container and pump the air out. Voilà!" --DMM
00:03:42 <cpressey> you have know idea how desirable that setup is for testing in web-based companies
00:03:48 <alise> "This is a SCALE MODEL of the ENTIRE universe."
00:03:55 <alise> cpressey: *no
00:04:00 <alise> pikhq: BTW, you could have just used IEs4Linux.
00:04:05 <alise> Which ... does all that for you.
00:04:09 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, now make each wine install CoW.
00:04:16 <alise> Although, maybe not the per-app Wine installs.
00:04:18 <alise> But it does it somehow.
00:04:28 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Expand acronym.
00:04:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Copy on Write.
00:04:51 <cpressey> "you know, you have no idea" got mangled on the way to the keyboard
00:04:53 <Phantom_Hoover> i.e. you don't have 50 copies of each file.
00:05:06 <alise> Oh, I thought CoW was some application.
00:05:24 <cpressey> Committee of WarCraft
00:05:29 <cpressey> *Warcraft
00:05:55 <cpressey> It's an exciting massively multiplayer online game about the back-office aspect of warfare
00:06:11 <pikhq> alise: IEs4Linux is old and crufty and does obnoxious things that WINE doesn't need anymore.
00:06:20 <pikhq> Though, IE8 doesn't appear to work in WINE ATM.
00:06:26 <alise> pikhq: It's also that great thing: convenient.
00:06:33 <alise> >__>
00:06:38 <alise> Okay so it doesn't work any more.
00:06:40 <pikhq> alise: Yeah, but it also creates a borken IE7.
00:06:40 <alise> But whatever.
00:06:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, there's a Wikipedia FUSE.
00:06:49 <pikhq> And slightly borken IE6.
00:06:51 <alise> http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/ies4linux
00:06:53 <alise> IE6 too.
00:06:54 <alise> Crashes.
00:07:19 <Phantom_Hoover> WP's article says among its disadvantages are that it a) doesn't work and b) isn't maintained any more.
00:07:21 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: read-only, or can I make updates?
00:07:25 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: :D
00:07:29 <alise> It doesn't work, but it is maintained!
00:07:36 <alise> cpressey: BUT HOW EDIT SUMMARY FROM EDITOR???
00:07:38 <pikhq> I've got a basically-perfect IE6 and an IE7 with graphical glitches.
00:07:43 <cpressey> rm /mnt/wikipedia/*
00:07:50 <alise> pikhq: "Basically perfect [...] with [flaws]"
00:07:53 <alise> That word.
00:07:57 <alise> I do not think it means what you think it means.
00:08:26 <pikhq> alise: No, IE6 is pretty much perfect, and IE7 has a couple of graphical glitches.
00:08:30 <alise> Ah.
00:08:34 <alise> I missed the "an".
00:08:49 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Jarring thing in the 2008/2009 IWC apocalypse: Somehow Espionage didn't get destroyed???
00:08:52 <pikhq> The graphical glitches are *just* on its toolbar.
00:08:59 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, nor did Fantasy.
00:09:01 <alise> But then how did the universe get destroyed, if everyone has to destroy it at once for that to happen?
00:09:11 <alise> Or did it just say multiple? Regardless:
00:09:15 <Phantom_Hoover> I assume that the Fantasy and Espionage universes are separate.
00:09:17 <alise> How can you claim that the *entire universe* has been destroyed?
00:09:21 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: So they have no Death?
00:09:24 <pikhq> ... Hrm, it appears to render things oddly, too.
00:09:27 <alise> Because there's pretty clearly only one Death canon.
00:09:36 <alise> And that canon said "yo, everyone died".
00:09:49 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Also, blatantly false -- see crossovers on http://irregularwebcomic.net/cast/.
00:09:59 <pikhq> About the only issues I see with IE6 are... IE6.
00:10:04 <alise> Indeed, Death *first appeared* in Fantasy.
00:10:14 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Conclusion: THIS MAKES NO SENSE
00:10:40 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, the only Fantasy-¬{Death} crossover I can think of was very contrived and clearly a one-off joke.
00:11:20 <alise> http://irregularwebcomic.net/cast/
00:11:27 <alise> There have been three non-Death Fantasy crossovers.
00:11:33 <alise> And four non-Death Space crossovers.
00:11:37 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: And furthermore, Death is the important one.
00:11:41 <alise> Death *started* in Fantasy.
00:11:44 <alise> It's the same Death all the way through.
00:11:49 <Gregor> ... wtf
00:11:50 <alise> And that Death organisation said that everyone died.
00:12:03 <alise> So everyone *must* *have* *died*, so *WHAT HAPPENED TO ESPIONAGE AND SPACE?*
00:12:12 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, perhaps they run a multidimensional operation.
00:12:14 <alise> Gregor: WHAT.
00:12:20 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: They said "multiple realities".
00:12:22 <alise> They accounted for that.
00:12:28 <alise> Every twindly bit of universe was destroyed, sez they.
00:14:23 <alise> DMM is too nice. Just the annotations where he goes on about stuff.
00:14:26 <alise> Far too pleasant.
00:14:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Have the Fantasy Deaths and the main theme universe Deaths ever been explicitly linked, other than sharing names?
00:15:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, yes.
00:15:24 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: In conclusion: MAJOR PLOT HOLE
00:15:46 <alise> Don't say it's minor, IWC has a concrete plot and the frickin' universe got destroyed, any flaw in that involving UNIVERSES STILL EXISTING is major :P
00:15:47 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, perhaps the Deaths have their own subtle plans.
00:15:56 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Well... OTOH
00:16:02 <alise> Fantasy and Space are both accounts of IRL RPG games.
00:16:06 <alise> Or purport to be.
00:16:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Note that the IWCverse is currently hurtling towards another cataclysm.
00:16:17 <alise> So you COULD argue -- although this has holes -- that since only the fictional universe got destroyed, they didn't.
00:16:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Perhaps some more canon welding will occur.
00:16:26 <alise> This is obviously hokum for so many reasons, but it almost gets you out of it. Sort of.
00:16:36 <Phantom_Hoover> And Space was in the 2009 apocalypse.
00:16:38 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I suggest we tell him to fix it! :P
00:16:41 <cpressey> omg
00:16:41 <alise> Err, right.
00:16:56 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, I doubt he hasn't noticed.
00:16:57 <alise> cpressey: Yes?
00:17:05 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Has he fully considered the implications, though?!?!
00:17:21 <cpressey> alise: i refuse to say
00:17:30 <alise> cpressey: You're exasperated at our canon arguments. :|
00:17:32 <alise> ADMIT IT
00:17:34 <cpressey> alise: got nu vagrant?
00:17:40 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, we speak of the inventor of Piet. He has endless complexities beyond our ken.
00:17:49 <alise> cpressey: sure, got tolerance for clingy Q fangirls that hover around you and never attack?
00:17:56 <alise> and also currently ungolfed code to do so?
00:17:59 <alise> 'cuz that's what i've got right now
00:18:10 <cpressey> alise: sure why not
00:18:39 <alise> cpressey: plan to change the code? if you do i'd better upload debug.py as well
00:18:54 <cpressey> alise: prolly not but WHO KNOWS
00:19:15 <Phantom_Hoover> I always loved the IWC favicon.
00:19:18 <alise> cpressey: It's almost incomprehensibly short. Nobody can resist tweaking it.
00:19:44 <alise> cpressey: http://pastie.org/1208840.txt?key=xipxlhgc0dyfwptglqkg vagrant.py
00:20:16 <alise> cpressey: http://pastie.org/1208841.txt?key=sqzicem58jcp8gwcxeuba debug.py (run instead of vagrant.py to see exceptions rather than silent death)
00:20:30 <alise> cpressey: To get rid of mindless fangirls: Comment out the long for loop in T().
00:20:53 <alise> Fun fact: If you remove those lines entirely, you can't quite believe it's a game that does anything.
00:21:04 <alise> cpressey: Oh, and it may or may not work with Python 2.7; I forget if they made / into proper division then, or just in 3.0.
00:21:13 <alise> It relies on / being integer division. If it doesn't work, change the two divisions to use //.
00:21:53 <cpressey> i think they probably did not change / in 2.7 because wait what am i saying
00:22:04 <alise> cpressey: Gameplay: you know this. vikeys to move, q to quaff potions (displayed after HP), % is food, ! is potion, # is wall, the rest you can figure out yourself
00:22:10 <alise> oh and $ is cash
00:22:18 <alise> S is satiation, lose it and you die quickly without ridiculous hp and proximity to food
00:22:24 <cpressey> ty
00:22:26 <alise> and fwiw i strongly recommend commenting out the AI code if you want to play
00:22:29 <alise> it's very annoying
00:22:34 <alise> to have Qs cluster around you constantly
00:22:44 <alise> also it looks way shorter without it.
00:23:25 <alise> cpressey: And, yes, I do use "str" as the shortest way to write a function that, when called with no arguments, produces no side effects.
00:23:29 <alise> MWAHAHAHA
00:24:05 <alise> cpressey: Do you have any irritating "Pythonistas" there who love to go on about beautiful Python code and best practices and formatting your code properly and documenting it and oh the PEP-8 and?
00:24:15 <Phantom_Hoover> PEP-8?
00:24:16 <alise> cpressey: 'cuz if so, totally show them this. With the AI code taken out, it's too normal-looking.
00:24:21 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: The Python style guide.
00:24:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Was that the thing mentioned in that crazy ABC thing?
00:24:44 <alise> I don't know.
00:24:45 <alise> I doubt it.
00:25:30 <alise> cpressey: Oh, and yeah, despite being less than two kilobytes, my code *does* in fact feature a better scrolling mechanism than Crawl.
00:25:35 <alise> Conclusion: Crawl developers are morons
00:28:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Incidentally, rereading the IWC apocalypse '09 arc, the Deaths only say the universe was destroyed.
00:28:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Not all of the universes.
00:29:19 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: They also say that *everyone* died.
00:29:23 <alise> As in. Everyone.
00:30:05 <Phantom_Hoover> i.e. all people in the universe are dead.
00:30:20 <alise> Oh, shut up.
00:30:28 <cpressey> never played Crawl
00:30:40 <Phantom_Hoover> I still go for the "Deaths have a secret agenda" theory
00:30:47 <cpressey> alise: re pythonistas, um sorta. but not that bad.
00:31:00 <cpressey> PEP-8, yes.
00:31:24 <cpressey> "Python understands me but I'll never get along with Ruby", yes.
00:31:27 <alise> crawl is like nethack, but the monsters hate you personally as opposed to just being nasties, and even though you move your character stays in the centre because crawl is the game of headaches
00:31:36 <alise> also, it has a ridiculously huge sidebar
00:31:45 <cpressey> developers whose wardrobe consists almost entire of python-themed t-shirts, yes.
00:31:48 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
00:31:50 <alise> also, it has a command to explore the level for you, because they're so large and featureless that doing it manually would cause suicide in anyone
00:32:03 <alise> cpressey: yeah -- rip out the AI lines and show them this
00:32:17 <alise> then get them to run it and watch them cry as they try and figure out how guido could possibly have let this happen
00:33:47 <alise> "This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with today's comic. I just thought it was so interesting that I had an urge to share it." --http://irregularwebcomic.net/2203.html
00:34:53 <alise> "It's called 35mm film because it is 35 millimetres wide."
00:35:51 <alise> "Records, for those people younger than about 30 years old, were the precursors of compact discs."
00:35:58 <alise> I -- what 20-year-old does not know this?
00:36:49 <Sgeo> Even I knew it!
00:36:52 <Phantom_Hoover> The terminally stupid.
00:36:57 <Sgeo> Although I think it was a joke
00:37:05 <cpressey> har har
00:37:10 <cpressey> i am teh laugh
00:37:37 <alise> Sgeo: no, he gave the diameter
00:37:40 <alise> well, in approximate terms
00:37:42 <alise> (twice that of a CD)
00:37:43 <alise> "There is also a Nyquist plugin called Clipfix for Audacity that uses cubic splines to ensure that the restored signal is continuously differentiable."
00:37:49 <alise> so that's how it works.
00:38:02 <cpressey> ooo
00:38:07 <pikhq> Clever.
00:38:33 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep
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00:39:31 <alise> pikhq: Reversing the loudness war sounds SO GOOD
00:39:48 <alise> Although it decreases dynamic range a little because you have to amplify by -10dB first.
00:39:52 <alise> That may just be my imagination.
00:39:59 <alise> But some "climaxes" do seem a little less punchy.
00:41:11 <pikhq> alise: Whaddya mean, amplify by -10dB first?
00:41:31 <alise> pikhq: That's what you have to do with Clip Fix.
00:41:38 <pikhq> Oh, I see.
00:41:43 <alise> Otherwise, says it, it may not have the headroom to put in the interpolated samples.
00:41:51 <alise> Although in practice I think -3 to -5 dB would do it just fine.
00:42:25 <pikhq> Of course, it's not like what you're doing this to *has* dynamic range in the first place.
00:42:53 <alise> pikhq: Well... the music does... arguably. (Okay, very arguably; not the quietest band.) But the mastering sure as hell doesn't.
00:42:57 <alise> But --
00:43:02 <alise> if you have a non-clipped bit, and then a clipped bit after it,
00:43:08 <alise> then the punchiness of the transition is decreased
00:43:12 <alise> pikhq: Maybe we could just get Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab to release all good albums.
00:43:22 <alise> Sure, they do that weird gold CD stuff, but they sure as hell master properly.
00:43:31 <alise> (Okay, I don't actually *know* that, but I'm pretty sure they do.0
00:43:34 <alise> *do.)
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00:44:15 <alise> Incidentally, Clip Fix is *slow*.
00:44:26 <alise> It takes, like, an hour to do a bit-over-10-minutes song.
00:46:38 <alise> "(In 1988, George Bush called Mike Dukakis a "card-carrying member of the ACLU", in effect comparing the Bill of Rights with Communism and its defenders with Communists. This insult to the US Constitution inspired me, as it did many others, to join the ACLU. Let's hope the Shrub will not be president; one Bush was too many.)" --Stallman, 2000
00:46:45 <alise> ...them
00:46:52 <alise> But all of us, we had to hear about it.
00:47:29 <alise> pikhq: Thing that needs to die: Single edits.
00:49:03 <alise> "Our (the UK) Education Secretary has links to Opius Dei. Ruth Kelly is her name
00:49:04 <alise> (very strange looking woman, some sort of Lesbo-mutant if you ask me)" --silly conspiracy forums
00:49:10 <alise> LESBO-MUTANT
00:49:23 -!- cheater00 has joined.
00:50:45 <alise> pikhq: (Thing that needs to die: Music industry)
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00:54:48 <zzo38> Thing that needs to die: Me. But not now.
00:55:39 <alise> zzo38: So, if you were told you would live forever, this would be terrible to you?
00:56:26 <zzo38> alise: Assuming many-universes, it is OK if I live forever in one possible universe, as long as it is not the case in all of them.
00:56:38 <alise> zzo38: Why is that?
00:56:50 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:56:59 <zzo38> alise: Surely if everyone live forever there will be no room.
00:57:43 <alise> zzo38: That is a position that is remarkably at odds with scientific progress.
00:58:18 <alise> And besides, if we assume many-universes, there is already a universe in which everyone lives forever.
01:00:26 <Sgeo> ARGH
01:00:32 <zzo38> What level of many-universes do you mean? I read a article there is four levels. What I mean is the one specified as level III in the article. If such a universe is exist, then it won't be like that forever.
01:00:33 <Sgeo> FUCK YOU FLASH
01:00:34 <Sgeo> FUCK YOU
01:00:49 <zzo38> Sgeo: Then just disable Flash, if it doesn't work?
01:00:59 <Sgeo> There are YouTube videos I want to watch
01:01:03 <zzo38> (Or else, write your own implementation)
01:01:10 <zzo38> Sgeo: Then use a conversion program, maybe.
01:07:56 <alise> Cyberrgs.
01:08:56 <zzo38> When watching Uncyclopedia, do so in a well lit room, and do not sit too close to the TV. We are absolutely not accountable for your actions, especially if you try to use this information in a dark room.
01:09:16 <zzo38> Consult a doctor if reading while pregnant, diabetic or hypersensitive to penicillin. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. Void where prohibited. Where there is smoke there is fire. Swimming is the best form of exercise. Batteries not included.
01:09:46 <zzo38> Do not fold, spindle or mutilate. Call your mother, she's worried about you. Close cover before striking. Game pieces do not actually talk. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Some assembly required. List each check separately by bank number.
01:10:00 <alise> Do not paste long quotes into IRC unless they're funny. Do not taunt.
01:11:00 <zzo38> Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. And also do not taunt long quotes into IRC unless they're funny. And also do not funny long quotes into CRI if they are not. And also.
01:12:50 <Sgeo> Maybe a restart will help
01:16:11 <zzo38> Why does it say "METAFONT failed for some reason" but there is no error message, and it seems to be working?
01:16:39 <zzo38> It also says "ignoring 0 strange path(s)"
01:17:03 <alise> Dunno.
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01:40:41 <cpressey> i came home to find a very tiny spider on my desk
01:41:36 <alise> cpressey: that's profound.
01:41:59 <cpressey> well, according to the topic, i guess i did not win
01:42:13 <cpressey> or i got like 556th place or something
01:42:18 <alise> cpressey: here's a vagrant.py with the AI pre-removed OMG how revolutionary:
01:42:20 <alise> http://pastie.org/1208931.txt?key=lqqwxvq9rvwdlbukvnmgtw
01:42:25 <alise> the ol' debug.py still applies
01:42:40 <alise> gah, the code is way too short. how the fuck does it work
01:42:43 <alise> makes no sense man
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01:44:36 <cpressey> it is the awesome power of joomla
01:44:40 <cpressey> er i mean python
01:46:19 <cpressey> (omg now they all KNOW my SEKRIT)
01:47:34 <cpressey> soon, alise, soon
01:47:54 <alise> cpressey: PLAY IT
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01:52:31 <cpressey> dude
01:52:33 <cpressey> nice hally
01:52:36 <cpressey> *u
01:52:40 <cpressey> or w/e
01:53:54 <cpressey> um does it wear off eventually?
01:54:43 <cpressey> um one inconsequential issue
01:54:56 <cpressey> if your terminal is >80 (or at least -- mine is)
01:55:07 <cpressey> the status bar is repeated
01:55:19 <cpressey> or rather, it "scrolls" a half page to the right each turn
01:55:23 <cpressey> alise ^
01:55:29 <alise> back
01:55:36 <alise> cpressey: yeah 80x24 or bust
01:55:44 <alise> supporting anything else = more bytes :)
01:55:53 <alise> resize it, it's not like the game uses any more :P
01:56:23 <alise> cpressey: i can think maybe what causes that
01:56:25 <alise> perhaps fixable
01:56:46 <alise> cpressey:
01:56:47 <alise> def C(x):s.insstr(23,0,' '*80);s.insstr(23,0,x);s.redrawwin()
01:56:49 <alise> replace C() with this
01:56:50 <alise> problem solved
01:56:58 <alise> although i still recommend 80x24 so you can see the border of vision
01:57:06 <cpressey> but the proper scrolling is very very cool
01:57:14 <alise> thanks
01:57:21 <alise> X-=(X-x)/17;Y-=(Y-y)/5
01:57:24 <alise> and only two statements, too!
01:57:40 <cpressey> integer division ftw
01:58:04 <alise> cpressey: btw to hallucinate wildly just keep eating food until the 1/15 chance smiles upon you
01:58:06 <alise> happens quite often
01:58:08 <cpressey> alise: does hallucination wear off
01:58:11 <alise> yes
01:58:16 <cpressey> it hasn't for me yet
01:58:16 <alise> 85 to 100 turns, pressing space may help
01:58:22 <alise> potions help
01:58:27 <alise> quaff potions if you have any
01:58:33 <alise> cpressey: to identify what things are, here's a cheat:
01:58:34 <alise> hold down enter
01:58:35 <cpressey> been a good 500 turns now
01:58:40 <alise> no, surely not
01:58:52 <cpressey> how do i know what potions i have
01:58:58 <alise> number next to HP
01:59:00 <alise> all potions are the same
01:59:01 <cpressey> well, maybe i got a lot of hallucinatory food and fifn'yt notice
01:59:05 <alise> just gets mixed into one infinite container
01:59:07 <alise> yeah that's likely
01:59:11 <cpressey> i have 47 potions?
01:59:18 <alise> cpressey: 47 HP restorable by potions
01:59:22 <cpressey> OH
01:59:25 <alise> actually tracking individual potions is too many bytes
01:59:29 <pikhq> alise: Loudness war'd albums have won Grammies for Best Engineered Album.
01:59:32 <cpressey> that explains why q put it down to 27
01:59:33 <alise> if k=='q':
01:59:33 <alise> q=min(P,20);L=min(L+q,300)
01:59:33 <alise> if P and L<301:U=min(U+q*3*(U>0),300);P-=q;T()
01:59:33 <alise> continue
01:59:36 <pikhq> alise: Yes, really.
01:59:39 <alise> so it also takes away some U
01:59:46 <alise> pikhq: loudness war'd albums = all albums now
01:59:50 <alise> so that's not surprising, if depressing
02:00:00 <alise> it also means that great, modern albums are saddled with terrible production
02:00:20 <pikhq> alise: Not all albums, actually.
02:00:27 <pikhq> alise: Just an obnoxious amount of them.
02:00:34 <alise> pikhq: All major-label and most minor-label albums.
02:00:44 <pikhq> Like I said, obnoxious.
02:00:51 <alise> cpressey: btw, enter is designed to dismiss messages
02:00:54 <alise> to see the status line
02:00:59 <alise> but it redraws, and so re-hallus
02:01:01 <alise> despite taking 0 turns
02:01:06 <alise> so if you hold it down you can make out what things are mostly
02:01:13 <alise> since there's only a 1/3 chance a given tile will be distorted
02:01:21 <alise> this is a "bug" but it's way too much trouble to fix it
02:01:49 <pikhq> alise: It's sad that I have to applaud people for *having any dynamic range* in their music.
02:02:07 <cpressey> alise: pretty sure i'm perma-llucinating.
02:02:19 <alise> cpressey: how much S do you have?
02:02:26 <cpressey> 167
02:02:27 <alise> pikhq: well a lot of music has dynamic range musically, just not production-wise
02:02:34 <alise> cpressey: how many potions?
02:02:40 <alise> cpressey: and, hp?
02:02:41 <cpressey> (57)
02:02:43 <pikhq> alise: Well, yes. You know what I mean. Music, *as published*.
02:02:47 <cpressey> HP=149
02:02:58 <cpressey> 1087 turns, 1323 gold.
02:03:14 <cpressey> only remember seeing one "Yuk!" message
02:03:15 <alise> cpressey: q until all potions are gone, hold down any key -- i suggest space -- (that doesn't move or quaff or anything, and isn't enter) until you're at about S:10a
02:03:19 <alise> *S:10
02:03:23 <alise> it's Euuch, actually
02:03:24 <alise> but try that
02:03:32 <cpressey> w/e
02:03:32 <alise> if you're still hallu, then i'm confused and will think a lot
02:03:58 <alise> waaiit
02:04:01 <alise> potions may hurt hallu
02:04:01 <cpressey> ok
02:04:03 <cpressey> it wore off
02:04:05 <cpressey> at about S:70
02:04:09 <alise> since my hallu-healing code hurts
02:04:11 <alise> cpressey: kay
02:04:14 <alise> i'll fix this code now
02:04:19 <pikhq> alise: Y'know, it'd be awesome if artists would release the unmixed tracks from studio sessions.
02:04:28 <alise> done
02:04:30 <pikhq> alise: So that someone who gave a damn could mix it well.
02:04:33 <alise> pikhq: you mean with all the tracks and shit?
02:04:46 <cpressey> alise: I have a suggestion, if you want to hear it, for an additoin
02:04:50 <alise> pikhq: Nine Inch Nails did that with a few tracks from Year Zero but the individual tracks were polished-ish
02:04:50 <cpressey> *addition
02:04:55 <alise> cpressey: absolutely
02:04:56 <alise> cpressey: btw, patch:
02:04:59 <alise> if P and L<301:U=min(U+q*3*(U>0),85);P-=q;T()
02:05:02 <cpressey> alise: >
02:05:06 <alise> obvious which line this modification is to
02:05:09 <alise> cpressey: you mean downstairs?
02:05:12 <pikhq> alise: Yes. Just "here's the entire studio session."
02:05:20 <cpressey> increases an integer l which affects density
02:05:22 <cpressey> alise: yes
02:05:26 <alise> pikhq: was fun to disable random tracks though
02:05:40 <alise> affects density? why?
02:05:41 <cpressey> and also scrambles the playfield (use the intial population funciton whatever it is)
02:05:48 <cpressey> deeper levels have more shit in them
02:05:55 <pikhq> And no, people, it does not go up to 11.
02:06:09 <cpressey> (easy way to make it both harder and more rewarding, at least theoretically)
02:07:17 <cpressey> but, uh. maybe combat first
02:07:22 <alise> cpressey: yes :P
02:07:24 <pikhq> alise: It'd also be awesome to see raw video being distributed. :P
02:07:33 * pikhq dislikes generation loss.
02:07:48 <alise> cpressey: my "plan" was to have some sort of monetary amount to get into hell or wherever
02:07:58 <alise> cpressey: where killing a monster gives you silly amounts of money compared to $ bags
02:08:01 <alise> so it's pretty much required
02:08:03 <alise> and then you get a fun boss
02:08:58 <cpressey> ah i see
02:09:45 <alise> cpressey: levels sound good, but increased density = increased risk of being boxed in by walls when you arrive
02:09:47 <alise> and that would suck
02:10:43 <cpressey> teleport spells!
02:10:48 <cpressey> (not too serious)
02:10:55 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
02:10:55 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Changing host).
02:10:55 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
02:12:17 <cpressey> let's see if the improvementsi made ot my bot work
02:14:08 -!- mzstorkipiwanbot has joined.
02:14:17 <cpressey> har
02:14:25 <cpressey> i just realized, it responds to frigg
02:14:51 <cpressey> frigg: VERSION
02:14:54 <cpressey> mzstorkipiwanbot: Meh.
02:14:54 <mzstorkipiwanbot> cpressey: Meh.
02:15:01 <cpressey> yeah, like that!
02:15:12 <cpressey> mzstorkipiwanbot: help
02:15:13 <mzstorkipiwanbot> cpressey: Help is available for: assignment print
02:15:18 <cpressey> mzstorkipiwanbot: help assignment
02:15:18 <mzstorkipiwanbot> cpressey: @a=1 [server-scope assignment]
02:15:23 <cpressey> mzstorkipiwanbot: help print
02:15:23 <mzstorkipiwanbot> cpressey: print {@a} [send contents of @a to stdout]
02:15:28 <cpressey> ok then
02:15:44 <cpressey> mzstorkipiwanbot: @x=5
02:15:45 -!- mzstorkipiwanbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:15:49 <cpressey> COWARD
02:19:05 <cpressey> scuze me
02:19:06 -!- cpressey has left (?).
02:20:26 -!- cpressey has joined.
02:20:30 <cpressey> ohai
02:21:22 <cpressey> i have neat idea with lua has the %b pattern for parsing with regexp nono haha recursive
02:21:59 <alise> cpressey: i couldn't do random teleport
02:22:02 <Gregor> Somehow I managed to screw up FreeCiv enough that every AI wants to be allied with me, to the point where they'll dissolve an alliance because I refuse to go to war with somebody they're at war with, then immediately re-ally with me.
02:22:06 <alise> "random number from 1 to infinity, distributed evenly"
02:22:15 <alise> Gregor: How is that a bad thing?
02:22:16 <alise> YOU ARE GOD
02:22:28 <Gregor> It's just amusing :P
02:23:36 <cpressey> Gregor: omg u r hax1ng teh freeciv srcs?
02:23:43 <Gregor> Nope
02:23:47 <Gregor> I just configured it really weirdly.
02:24:18 <pikhq> Why are there only torrents of '95 on floppy?
02:24:23 <alise> pikhq: Because you t--.
02:24:27 <Gregor> It's especially funny right now because I'm a Republic (my favorite government type), and my senate won't let me go to war with anyone, so even if I wanted to honor my alliances, I can't.
02:24:42 <pikhq> ... And an inexplicable Finnish version on CD, and one that's got 0 seeds.
02:24:48 <cpressey> PARADOX GOVERNMENT
02:25:05 <pikhq> Gregor: Oh, I do so love FreeCiv.
02:25:13 <alise> Gregor: Is the FreeCiv package in Debian okay?
02:25:27 <alise> cpressey: HOW FUN IS VAGRANT EH
02:25:30 <alise> What's your top moneys so far
02:25:45 <Gregor> alise: Almost.
02:25:47 <cpressey> alise: FUNNESS PER SOURCE CODE BYTE = AWESOME
02:25:51 <alise> Gregor: Almost?
02:25:57 <alise> cpressey: ABSOLUTE FUNNESS, THOUGH? :P
02:26:02 <Gregor> alise: It's a little bit wtf-is-ipv4-lawl, but otherwise it's all good.
02:26:09 <pikhq> Perhaps I should just fetch the floppies. And go with a tedious, tedious install process.
02:26:14 <alise> Gregor: ...I wasn't planning to play networked
02:26:18 <alise> pikhq: No way :P
02:26:25 <alise> pikhq: There is some CD that is just all the floppies catted together somehow.
02:26:27 <alise> That one worked for me.
02:26:37 <pikhq> alise: o.o
02:26:41 <Gregor> alise: Then 's all A-OK. Also, it's easy enough to do netplay if you call freeciv-server manually rather than from the client.
02:26:42 <alise> Gregor: Do I want freeciv gtk or sdl or what
02:26:46 <alise> I guess sdl
02:26:49 <Gregor> alise: gtk
02:26:52 <alise> Really?
02:26:57 <Gregor> The SDL client sucks, and not in a good way.
02:27:10 <alise> But playing games made with regular widget toolkits FEELS SO WEIRD.
02:27:13 <pikhq> There's also an AJAX client.
02:27:16 <alise> Do I have to deal with server bullshit if I just want to play?
02:27:16 <cpressey> alise: I AM A FUNNESS-FINITIST. what good mans reach grasp exceed something something
02:27:36 <alise> Gregor: "freeciv-client-xaw3d" Q.E.D.
02:27:38 <pikhq> alise: The GTK client will operate the server as is sane for single-player use.
02:27:55 <pikhq> I suspect the others will as well, but I'm not as familiar with them.
02:28:00 <cpressey> Athena hates MIT for associating her name with that awful widgetkit.
02:28:24 <alise> Poor goddess
02:28:27 <pikhq> cpressey: Athena is more than just a toolkit, you know.
02:28:31 <alise> oh i thought you said their
02:28:32 <alise> xD
02:28:36 <alise> like a company or something
02:28:39 <alise> yeah athena itself is cool
02:28:46 <alise> produced X11
02:28:47 <alise> uhh
02:28:49 <alise> I reject my assertion
02:28:50 <alise> athena sucks
02:28:52 <pikhq> Kerberos.
02:29:03 <alise> fun fact, still deployed
02:29:10 <alise> poor MIT people, using GNOME 0.1 or whatever it is
02:29:16 <cpressey> http://animeholicph.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/card-captor-sakura-keroberos.jpg
02:29:25 <Gregor> alise: ...?
02:29:46 <alise> Gregor: what?
02:29:55 <Gregor> alise: DOT DOT DOT QUESTION MARK
02:30:09 <alise> cpressey: I can *almost* make that relevant in my head.
02:30:10 <alise> Almost.
02:30:16 <pikhq> Gregor: They have used X11 thin clients at MIT since the 80s.
02:30:48 <pikhq> I think they're still using some of the old, old, old school software on it, too.
02:30:55 <alise> pikhq: Apparently the architecture itself has program binaries themselves being run on NFS-or-something-like-it.
02:31:19 <alise> http://blog.spang.cc/posts/MIT_Athena:_Not_Dead_Yet/
02:31:25 <alise> http://blog.spang.cc/images/clean-athena.png
02:31:27 <alise> Actually GNOME 2.8.
02:31:32 <alise> Still... Jesus.
02:31:45 <cpressey> there was a zephyr too
02:31:57 <pikhq> cpressey: IM
02:32:17 <pikhq> alise: It's... Sun.
02:32:18 <pikhq> alise: Jesus.
02:32:35 <alise> http://hacks.mit.edu/by_year/1989/grumpy_fuzzball/gf_screen_large.gif The login screen (with fuzzball instead of the usual owl, a hack from december 1989)
02:32:44 <pikhq> It's running on SunOS. Not Solaris, SunOS.
02:32:50 <alise> pikhq: Nope.
02:32:53 <alise> RHEL 4.
02:32:56 <alise> See http://blog.spang.cc/posts/MIT_Athena:_Not_Dead_Yet/.
02:32:57 <pikhq> "sun4"
02:33:05 <alise> oh
02:33:08 <alise> "So, what I really just wasted over 600 words prepping for is to say that Athena 10 will be based on Ubuntu." circa 2008
02:33:11 <alise> pikhq: pretty sure that's the machine
02:33:14 <alise> or
02:33:14 <alise> rather
02:33:15 <alise> the server
02:33:18 <alise> the clients being RHEL
02:33:24 <alise> or maybe the other way around
02:33:28 <cpressey> "Athena 10 will be based on Ubuntu"
02:33:35 <alise> Athena 10 Technical Plan (Page Not Found)
02:33:36 <alise> reassuring
02:33:40 <cpressey> ok now She is pissed i'm pretty sure
02:35:14 <cpressey> a 4x-human-size virgin in armor, with a big-ass spear, bearing down on cambridge as we speak
02:35:31 <Gregor> *big ass-spear
02:36:15 <alise> cpressey: I like how you decided to mention she's a virgin.
02:36:30 <alise> "Still up for the taking, MIT guys! Just don't do it!"
02:36:35 <cpressey> alise: hey, it was one of the salient features attributed to her
02:36:43 <alise> http://blog.spang.cc/images/clean-athena.png <-- I love how RISC OS the launcher icons at the bottom are.
02:36:56 <cpressey> i guess i forgot the STONEMAKINGGORGONHEADSHIELD, though
02:37:09 <cpressey> fucking awesome
02:38:59 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_File_System
02:39:00 <alise> this is what they use
02:39:11 <alise> kerberos-based, who wouldda guessed?!?!?!
02:39:52 <alise> [[The proposed "3M" workstations included a million pixel display and a megabyte of memory, running at a million instructions per second. Unfortunately a fourth M, cost on the order of a megapenny, proved the 3M beyond the reach of students' budgets, so the initial hardware deployment in 1985 established a number of university-owned "clusters" of public workstations in various academic buildings and dorm
02:39:52 <alise> itories.]]
02:39:56 <alise> -- Wikipedia, "Andrew Project"
02:39:58 <alise> HUR HUR A PUN
02:40:01 <alise> We are Wikipedia
02:40:02 <alise> We are series
02:40:03 <alise> *serious
02:40:05 <alise> Yet we pun
02:40:06 <alise> Subtly
02:40:08 <alise> Laugh
02:42:56 <alise> pikhq: interestingly Athena is accessible from outside MIT...
02:43:05 <alise> the "prime" interface to that is MITnet, which is a dialup link :-)
02:43:08 <alise> (but they have telnet now...)
02:43:09 <cpressey> the mit campus map page is a google maps page with an "MIT" button menu
02:43:19 <pikhq> alise: Does rms still not have a password?
02:43:19 <alise> cpressey: they have a pdf of some sort i think
02:43:25 <alise> pikhq: does rms still have an account?
02:43:26 <cpressey> ....that does NOTHING when clicked
02:43:28 <alise> that is the more pertinent question
02:43:49 <pikhq> alise: Yes. His office is still there, I'm pretty sure.
02:44:19 <alise> pikhq: i forget, did he ever actually graduate
02:44:31 <cpressey> alise: jesus
02:44:35 <cpressey> alise: stupid question
02:44:36 <pikhq> He never *attended* MIT.
02:44:44 <pikhq> He graduated from Harvard and *worked* at MIT.
02:44:46 <alise> untrue
02:44:47 <cpressey> alise: you get famous, you don't NEED to graduate.
02:44:48 <alise> [[Stallman then enrolled as a graduate student in physics at MIT, but abandoned his graduate studies while remaining a programmer at the MIT AI Laboratory.]]
02:44:58 <alise> grad student, then he gave up and decided to stay
02:44:59 <pikhq> Oh, okay, he did actually enroll there.
02:45:09 <cpressey> alise: you do think sergei and that other guy graduated? they're still on leave
02:45:13 <alise> Stallman abandoned his pursuit of a doctorate in physics in favor of programming.
02:45:13 <alise> While a graduate student at MIT, Stallman published a paper on an AI truth maintenance system called dependency-directed backtracking with Gerald Jay Sussman.[14] This paper was an early work on the problem of intelligent backtracking in constraint satisfaction problems. As of 2003, the technique Stallman and Sussman introduced is still the most general and powerful form of intelligent backtracking.[15]
02:45:13 <alise> The technique of constraint recording, wherein partial results of a search are recorded for later reuse, was also introduced in this paper.[15]
02:45:13 <pikhq> He's still a research affiliate.
02:45:18 <alise> cpressey: shaddap :)
02:45:20 <alise> pikhq: well, you know what?
02:45:23 <alise> there is an easy way to find out
02:45:34 <cpressey> alise: i'm srs
02:45:35 <alise> http://adminsr.com/blog/?p=201
02:45:37 <alise> LET'S SSH TO MIT
02:45:38 <alise> cpressey: okay :P
02:45:48 <cpressey> oh!
02:45:59 <cpressey> and MIT dungeon doesn't even contain a dungeon to speak of
02:46:00 <alise> Permission denied (publickey,gssapi-keyex,gssapi-with-mic,keyboard-interactive).
02:46:02 <alise> DRAT
02:46:03 <alise> FOILED AGAIN
02:46:11 <cpressey> pretty sure the name is a nod to dungeons and dragons instead
02:46:18 <Gregor> gssapi-with-mic
02:46:22 <Gregor> *brain axplote*
02:46:28 <alise> pikhq: okay that works with the kerberos login
02:46:32 <alise> I VERY MUCH doubt rms has a kerberos login
02:46:34 <alise> at least an active one
02:46:38 <cpressey> wait where was d&d invented
02:47:08 <Gregor> THE FIRIEST PITS OF HELL
02:47:19 <alise> cpressey: gary gygax's anus
02:47:23 <alise> TRUE FACT
02:47:26 <Gregor> Like I said.
02:47:30 <cpressey> alise: yes but
02:47:37 <alise> seems to just be
02:47:39 <alise> in his head
02:47:44 <cpressey> NEED lATLONG
02:47:45 <alise> nowhere particular
02:48:16 <alise> cpressey: (3+sqrt(2)i, pi+sqrt(0)^sqrt(a bit of abcesses) + not i, that other one... a one who's name i have forgotten)
02:48:17 <alise> HAVE FUN
02:48:45 <cpressey> alise: i no care if you have low opinion of it -- as a sociaL shift of sorts, d&d is significant
02:48:56 <alise> pikhq: stallman has like fifty honorary doctorates
02:48:57 <alise> and professorships
02:49:05 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman#Recognition
02:49:07 <alise> suck-up bitches
02:49:14 <cpressey> for whAt?
02:49:16 <alise> cpressey: did i ever say i had a low opinion of it
02:49:17 <cpressey> OH RIGHT
02:49:20 <cpressey> communism
02:49:20 <alise> i've never even played d&d
02:49:21 <cpressey> n/m
02:49:26 <alise> i think cpressey is drunk again
02:49:31 <cpressey> HEE
02:49:46 <cpressey> also pizza!
02:49:49 <cpressey> mmmm
02:50:11 <cpressey> thus the 1 hand typing
02:50:47 -!- jomjome has left (?).
02:52:09 <alise> i'd love to play around with an athena box, just to see how fucked up it is
02:52:18 <alise> i could put all sorts of Athena-virgin related puns here, but i won't
02:53:35 <cpressey> alise: appreciated.
02:53:45 <cpressey> alise: btw: J R R Tolkein. Discuss.
02:54:28 <cpressey> or, don't.
02:54:39 <cpressey> i've never read his books, myself.
02:54:43 <alise> cpressey: a man. he said too little with too much and was a racist. despite that,
02:54:49 <alise> i still feel like i should read the lord of the rings.
02:55:16 <alise> i have read the beginning of /The Fellowship.../. it was far too verbose.
02:55:19 <alise> i'm sure i could get used to it.
02:55:27 <alise> but...
02:55:43 <alise> if i wanted to read something really long, there are like fifty things above it on my list :)
02:55:49 <cpressey> they tried to have us read /The Hobbit/ in 7th grade English class. Then we stopped. I usually assume someone's parents complained about SATANISM IN THE SCHOOLS.
02:55:55 <alise> i liked the films. of course they must be terrible adaptions.
02:55:57 <alise> but they're still good.
02:56:28 <alise> i think in today's world where fantasy is so... laughable, and with the canon of the films in my head, it'd be hard to take things seriously
02:56:59 <alise> cpressey: speaking of things made up of a lot of words, have you read Infinite Jest? I mean to sometime.
02:57:02 <cpressey> and then there's C S Lewis. I have read his significant stuff.
02:57:10 <cpressey> <*exasperated sound*?
02:57:12 <cpressey> >
02:57:19 <cpressey> alise: I have not.
02:57:42 <alise> C. S. Lewis was a writer of Christian propaganda posing as bad children's fantasy.
02:58:01 <cpressey> ooh Quebec Seperatism, just like Beautiful Losers. <*exasperated sound*>
02:58:01 <Gregor> (The best kind of propaganda)
02:58:05 <alise> i read all the narnia books when i was younger. i think i kept going because i knew they were meant to be *so* *great*
02:58:14 <alise> then they all died and went to heaven with jesus the lion
02:58:19 <alise> and ... they were not great, after all, in the end.
02:58:28 <cpressey> alise: in a wonderful wonderful train accident
02:58:34 <alise> yes
02:58:38 <alise> i like to imagine their mangled limbs.
02:58:53 <Gregor> `addquote <alise> i like to imagine their mangled limbs.
02:58:56 <alise> ...ranks high up the list of Stupid Things to Say After Coming Out of a Mental Institution
02:58:57 <cpressey> yes. kind of twisted. also, santa clause gave them swords and armor and shit in the first book.
02:58:58 <HackEgo> 237|<alise> i like to imagine their mangled limbs.
02:59:01 <cpressey> *claus
02:59:55 <alise> cpressey: Gravity's Rainbow! also made out of a lot of words. have you read it? i have not.
03:00:04 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
03:00:17 <cpressey> alise: I want to. ++ because Pat Benetar made an album with that name.
03:00:21 <cpressey> HIT ME WITH YOUR BEST SHOT
03:00:23 <cpressey> love the hair
03:00:56 <cpressey> Damn, so much I haven't read yet!
03:00:57 <alise> FINNEGANS WAKE
03:01:01 <cpressey> YES
03:01:02 <alise> made out of WAY TOO MANY WORDS
03:01:05 <alise> i also haven't read it
03:01:17 <cpressey> I fread Dante's Inferno, and Neechy's A.S.Z., this summer, so that's something.
03:01:28 <cpressey> *read
03:01:33 <cpressey> fread is for C programs.
03:01:42 <alise> "Despite these obstacles, readers and commentators have reached a broad consensus about the book's central cast of characters and, to a lesser degree, its plot."
03:01:47 <alise> well, we know who the characters are!
03:02:04 <cpressey> Hm, also I have seen the Catch-22 film, but not read the book. Also,
03:02:23 <cpressey> Cat's Cradle - Vonnegut
03:02:34 <cpressey> well, it has its cult following, who knows if it's *actually* good.
03:02:43 <cpressey> I mean, SIASL has it's cult following too.
03:02:52 <cpressey> And when I was a teenager, I was all, "Wow! Grok! Heh"
03:02:54 <alise> vonnegut is cool. would like to read. haven't. hmph
03:02:55 <cpressey> but really
03:03:00 <alise> apparently the catch-22 book is good, sez friend
03:03:02 <cpressey> c'mon
03:03:15 <alise> define siasl
03:03:17 <alise> Welcome to the home of the Southern Illinois Adult Soccer League (SIASL). We are the only coed adult soccer league in the Marion/Carbondale area.
03:03:22 <cpressey> Stranger in a Strange Land
03:03:26 <cpressey> HAHAHA
03:03:40 <cpressey> I love internet acronym pollution
03:03:50 <alise> i like heinlein a bit... but not too much
03:04:04 <alise> the fine line between something and libertarianism
03:04:07 <cpressey> Stranger in a Strange Land, Robert Heinlein, Michael Valentine Smith, Water Brother, Grok
03:04:26 <alise> he coined grok, if you didn't know
03:04:33 <cpressey> Everyone says grok.
03:04:44 <cpressey> You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
03:05:31 <alise> it's become assimilated since the 60s dude :P
03:05:46 <cpressey> and completely watered down, was my only point
03:05:57 <cpressey> Now, sass
03:06:03 <cpressey> That's underused.
03:06:28 <cpressey> Hm, what else of good books? ...
03:06:53 <cpressey> Drawing a blank
03:07:06 <alise> BOOKS SUCK
03:07:12 <cpressey> There is that
03:07:43 <cpressey> Oh - A Clockwork Orange -- the book is very good -- you can tell it was written by a composer
03:08:11 <cpressey> Logan's Run -- the movie is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better than the book -- the book is incompreh. and pretent.
03:08:24 <cpressey> /mode wooster
03:08:59 <cpressey> So, watch Logan's Run and read A Clockwork Orange, NOT the other way round
03:09:11 <cpressey> Also, huh.
03:10:04 <cpressey> "Waldo" by Robert Heinlein and "A Logic Named Joe" by.... uh... Murray Leinster
03:10:37 <cpressey> Um, movies.
03:10:48 <cpressey> Amelie, actually, was very good
03:11:10 <cpressey> TRON, the original. I refuse to participate in any remake hype
03:11:34 <cpressey> "Overdrawn at the Memory Bank" predates the Matrix by, I dunno, 2 decades
03:11:34 <Gregor> 2001: A Space Odyssey
03:11:49 <alise> -- err didn't notice any of this
03:11:58 <alise> i don't mind incompreh. and pretent. :)
03:12:16 <cpressey> Gregor: yeah. it's like, watch the movie AND read the book, for that one, to get the whole picture
03:12:27 <Gregor> cpressey: In the opposite order though.
03:12:30 <cpressey> even though the book and the movie are set in the orbit of different fuckin planets
03:12:33 <alise> cpressey: scifi! always the destination when you run out of GOOD books
03:13:39 <cpressey> alise: you don't mind slogging through works that are incomprehensible and pretentious? OR you don't mind me making abbrevs. for those wo.?
03:13:48 <alise> the former
03:13:53 <alise> as long as they're amusing in some way
03:14:12 <cpressey> (Which is the Wooster thing. Also, Wodehouse is cool. Like Douglas Adams of the 20's. Anyway)
03:14:36 <alise> SCIFI
03:14:36 <alise> go
03:14:44 <cpressey> alise: I really can't recommend the Logan's Run book. But, you know, I guess, I managed to finish it, unlike say Millenium
03:14:46 <Gregor> Isaac Asimov
03:14:51 <cpressey> Movies are so much easier to finish
03:15:09 <alise> Gregor: duh
03:15:12 <alise> i mean everything else
03:15:17 <Gregor> Duh indeeeeed! :P
03:15:28 <cpressey> Asimov: short stories. The whole Foundation thing? Interesting idea but I CANNOT READ THAT MUCH EXTRAPOLATING THAT IDEA.
03:16:00 <cpressey> Again, I must say: A Logic Named Joe. That is a beautiful story. By an almost unknown author.
03:16:24 <alise> stanislaw lem, i want to read Solaris, just haven't got around to it! mrf!
03:16:27 <cpressey> I read it for the first time, on a plane, while I was on my way to an internship at a large dotcom search engine company.
03:16:29 <alise> The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect, of course
03:16:32 <alise> (if you can stomach it)
03:16:40 <cpressey> So it was kind of hyperappropriate
03:16:51 <cpressey> alise: I've heard of im
03:17:04 <alise> cpressey: http://www.kuro5hin.org/prime-intellect/mopiidx.html
03:17:04 <cpressey> Intriguing, although not sure what to make of it
03:17:09 <alise> it is good (and not very long)
03:17:22 <alise> but, uh, yeah, there's sort of zombie rape-torture in the first chapter
03:17:28 <alise> it does serve a plot-relevant purpose, but, you know
03:17:31 <alise> you still have to read it
03:17:43 <alise> cpressey: well it was published on kuro5hin in 2002
03:17:45 <cpressey> if i'm not mistaken that's some kind of amplifier
03:17:49 <alise> so when it was actually any good :)
03:17:54 <alise> cpressey: it's meant to look like a moth
03:18:11 <alise> evidence: "mopimoth.gif" and he calls it the moth graphic or something on another page of the site
03:18:52 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
03:19:13 -!- lament has joined.
03:20:51 <alise> cpressey: oh and everything Sam Hughes has ever written
03:20:52 <alise> obviously
03:21:01 <cpressey> hmmm
03:21:17 <cpressey> oh wait that guy?
03:21:50 <Gregor> No, that other guy.
03:21:55 <alise> cpressey: qntm.org
03:22:02 <alise> you may know him for How to Destroy the Earth
03:22:15 <alise> his two novels are the Ed stories and Fine Structure
03:22:23 <alise> i have read the former twice and am in the stalled process of reading the latter
03:22:41 <cpressey> i know him from his blog posts rather than his fiction
03:23:06 <alise> but his blog posts are just about drinking to excess according to various rules about which drinking establishments you go to!
03:24:23 <cpressey> are they? i thought they were about random inconsquential CS theory shit
03:24:34 <cpressey> alTHOUGH
03:24:37 <cpressey> on inSPECTION
03:55:27 <cpressey> `etymology genius
03:55:44 <cpressey> c'mon HackEgo
03:55:44 <HackEgo> genius \ late 14c., from L. genius "guardian deity or spirit which watches over each person from birth; spirit, incarnation, wit, talent," from root of gignere "beget, produce" (see kin), from PIE base *gen- "produce." Meaning "person of natural intelligence or talent" first recorded 1640s. \ \ genial \ 1560s, from
03:55:47 <cpressey> yay
03:55:58 <alise> `etymology hack
03:56:04 <HackEgo> hack (1) \ in O.E. tohaccian "hack to pieces," from W.Gmc. *khak- (cf. O.Fris. hackia, Du. hakken, O.H.G. hacchon), perhaps infl. by O.N. hggva "to hack, hew," from PIE *kau- "to hew, strike." Sense of "short, dry cough" is 1802. Noun meaning "an act of hacking" is from 1836; fig. sense of "a try, an attempt" is first attested
03:58:50 <cpressey> höggva
04:07:18 <pikhq> alise: Okay, it seems what the problem is is that the Windows installer *sometimes forgets to install half the network stack*.
04:08:34 <alise> pikhq: :D
04:08:39 <alise> pikhq: I think it's rather that it's not on the CD.
04:08:41 <alise> I couldn't get it to install.
04:08:56 <pikhq> alise: I've had the same problem with two different install media.
04:09:08 <pikhq> alise: And it apparently *just happens on some systems*.
04:09:32 <pikhq> Yes, Windows 95 has a braindead installer bug.
04:10:02 <alise> LAWL
04:10:09 <cpressey> start me up!
04:14:54 <pikhq> Whoa. There are plants that do not need sunlight at all.
04:15:21 <pikhq> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0a/Indian_pipe_PDB.JPG Yes, that is a *plant*.
04:17:16 <cpressey> i'm... that's.... ok
04:18:13 <cpressey> "i'm a plant, but the whole plant schtick, no, i don't play that way."
04:18:50 <pikhq> It's parasitic upon the mycorrhiza in the roots of a nearby tree.
04:24:23 <alise> GAME THEORY ADMIRAL: http://imgur.com/oYeTa.jpg
04:24:33 <alise> It's zero-sum!
04:24:43 <GreaseMonkey> wow
04:25:29 <Gregor> Vorpal, cpressey, whoever: http://codu.org/tmp/zee1-2010-10-08.ogg zee1, now with FLAVOR!
04:26:31 <pikhq> Gregor: Insufficiently FLAC
04:27:41 <pikhq> Also, have you considered going back in time and doing some NES composition?
04:27:51 <Gregor> Uploading a FLACcid one will take a while :P
04:28:01 <Gregor> My time machine is broken.
04:28:02 <pikhq> FLACcid; nice.
04:28:16 <pikhq> Well, you can still do chip tunes.
04:28:56 <pikhq> Especially for the NES or SNES; their sound chips are emulated as accurately as is possible.
04:29:43 <Gregor> Yeah, well I only want to do chip tunes for the MSX, NeoGeo and Sega Saturn!
04:30:08 <pikhq> MSX and NeoGeo ought to be feasible.
04:30:14 <pikhq> But does anybody even *care* about the Saturn?
04:30:35 <Gregor> Did anyone own a Saturn? :P
04:30:36 <cpressey> Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
04:30:44 <cpressey> Gregor: I SAW A LOT OF COMMERCIALS
04:30:44 <Gregor> I think they sold about four :P
04:30:51 <cpressey> During winter '96
04:30:52 <pikhq> Oh, it was apparently popular in Japan.
04:30:53 <cpressey> MAAAAN
04:30:59 <pikhq> It came out in '94.
04:31:01 <pikhq> There.
04:31:19 <pikhq> And released a bit before the Playstation.
04:31:24 <Gregor> FINEFINE
04:31:32 <Gregor> I'll write chiptunes for the Sega 32X.
04:31:36 <cpressey> Playstation, very arguably, won.
04:31:57 <pikhq> cpressey: Not "arguably".
04:32:27 <Gregor> I'm sure you can find some property by which Playstation didn't win :P
04:32:29 <pikhq> The Playstation was the first console to sell 100 million units.
04:32:31 <pikhq> :)
04:32:36 <cpressey> limit {0...inf} arguably
04:32:57 <pikhq> Gregor: Well, it didn't win against the Playstation 2.
04:33:32 <pikhq> Best-selling console ever, and it's *still selling*. Jeeze.
04:33:41 <cpressey> I have good memories of the Playstation [1], actually.
04:34:00 <pikhq> The PS1 had many a good game. Though much of it has aged rather poorly.
04:34:15 <Gregor> pikhq: "Still selling" isn't much of a statement, really.
04:34:18 <Gregor> pikhq: The Genesis is still selling in some markets.
04:34:18 <pikhq> (unlike SNES games, for instance, which I could believe came out *yesterday*)
04:34:20 <cpressey> Tomb Raider 2. Cool Boarders 2. Twisted Metal 2.
04:34:35 <cpressey> PARAPPA THE RAPPER
04:34:44 <Gregor> Only sequels are good :P
04:34:52 <pikhq> Gregor: Until last year it was outselling all other home consoles, IIRC.
04:35:11 <cpressey> The sequal to Parappa sucked, but otherwise, I agree: there is a Version Two Phenomenon at play.
04:35:18 <pikhq> Or maybe year before that. Anyways. It's still absurd.
04:35:28 <Gregor> cpressey: The sequel to Parappa the Rapper? You mean DDR?
04:35:34 <cpressey> Well, "sucked" is too hard, but. Not as good.
04:35:42 <cpressey> Gregor: no, IIRC there was a Parappa 2.
04:35:43 <Gregor> pikhq: Here, have your FLACcid zee1: http://codu.org/tmp/zee1-2010-10-08.flac
04:35:45 <pikhq> Gregor: It's still selling well in pretty much all markets, though.
04:35:49 <Gregor> cpressey: HELLO WELCOME TO JOKES
04:35:57 <cpressey> Gregor: OHAI FUCK YEAH
04:36:05 <pikhq> Gregor: \o/
04:36:05 <myndzi> |
04:36:05 <myndzi> >\
04:36:43 <pikhq> Kinda amazing the Genesis is still being made, though.
04:37:52 <cpressey> pikhq: still.. being...
04:38:20 <pikhq> cpressey: Yes.
04:38:23 * cpressey 's alcohol-infused brain struggles to process this
04:40:15 <cpressey> I am so out of touch with the console world, it seems.
04:40:31 <pikhq> You can go into a store and purchase a Sega Genesis.
04:40:45 <pikhq> (well, you'll have to hunt in the US; it's sold domestically, but not commonly.)
04:41:06 <cpressey> PEOPLE WANT TO PLAY GAMES
04:41:11 <alise> <pikhq> Kinda amazing the Genesis is still being made, though.
04:41:12 <alise> what
04:41:12 <cpressey> i got that far
04:41:26 <pikhq> alise: You can go out and buy a BRAND NEW Sega Genesis.
04:41:36 <alise> pikhq: it feels like i'm high, am i high?
04:41:44 <alise> just thought of Rocket Man, so yes, yes I am
04:41:48 <cpressey> "Sehhh-Gahhh"
04:41:52 <pikhq> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/af/GenesisFirecore.JPG You can find this in stores right now.
04:41:52 <alise> Sega Genesis, a video game console
04:41:52 <alise> Genesis (magazine), a pornographic magazine
04:42:00 <alise> juxtasuppository
04:42:10 <alise> supposition...tory
04:42:26 <alise> pikhq: psht, FIRECORE
04:42:29 <alise> i want ... water...core
04:42:39 <pikhq> Incompatible with the Sega CD, Sega 32X, and the Power Base Converter, but *it's a freaking brand new Sega Genesis*.
04:43:23 <alise> genesis does...
04:43:24 <alise> ...
04:43:25 <alise> ...
04:43:25 <alise> ..
04:43:27 <alise> .
04:43:27 <alise>
04:43:31 <alise> what sonyn't
04:43:40 * alise laughs
04:43:51 <pikhq> What Nintendon't.
04:43:55 <alise> SONYN'T
04:44:11 <pikhq> Such a shame they stopped making the SNES 7 years ago.
04:44:21 <alise> ...
04:44:23 <alise> what
04:44:31 <alise> i am hallucinating your words
04:44:35 <alise> what is the number that looks like 7 here
04:44:41 <pikhq> Just that.
04:44:48 <alise> Discontinued
04:44:48 <alise> JP 2003[1]
04:44:48 <alise> NA 1999[2]
04:44:49 <cpressey> 2003
04:44:55 <alise> well more like eleven here
04:44:57 <alise> but still
04:44:58 <alise> wtfff
04:45:15 <pikhq> That same year they stopped making the NES.
04:45:16 <alise> anyone ever use a nes emulator called nesticle?
04:45:18 <pikhq> Well, Famicom.
04:45:23 <pikhq> alise: Nesticle sucks ass.
04:45:25 <pikhq> alise: But yes.
04:45:26 <cpressey> alise: i tried... once
04:45:26 <alise> it does
04:45:29 <alise> but the cursor
04:45:34 <alise> will always stick in my memory
04:45:40 <alise> THE BLOOD oh the blood
04:45:47 <cpressey> i also tried something called "DarcNES"
04:45:49 <cpressey> AH HA PUN
04:46:09 <alise> find your inner hobbitnes with HobbitNES
04:46:14 <alise> *ness
04:46:17 <cpressey> Ah, the FreeBsd 4.X days
04:46:25 <alise> pikhq: SU PER FA MICOM
04:46:35 <cpressey> alise: I HAD ONE (briefly)
04:46:43 <cpressey> picked up at the SPCA thrift store
04:46:54 <cpressey> played a friend's supernes cart
04:47:31 <cpressey> i also picked up a... something too fucking obscure for me to remember
04:48:11 <cpressey> geez, it was like an Oddessy^2 in its obscurity, what was it?
04:48:51 <cpressey> i think it had "system" in its name
04:49:36 <cpressey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console goddamn WP I hate you I love you
04:49:56 <cpressey> TurboGrafx THAT WAS IT
04:50:16 <cpressey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TurboGrafx-16 HOLY FUCKING OBSCURE.
04:50:23 <Gregor> HaHAAAA TurboGrafx
04:50:36 <cpressey> "PC Enginge" is even less obscure, and that was the Japanese version
04:50:48 <cpressey> I never got it to boot up.
04:50:51 <Gregor> Vorpal, cpressey, pikhq, whoever: http://codu.org/tmp/zee5-2010-10-08.ogg zee5, now with FLAVOR!
04:50:57 <cpressey> No carts!
04:51:18 <cpressey> WHOA
04:51:53 <cpressey> zee5, now with gnarly visualization, presumably because ubuntu has decided firefox should do that now ok
04:52:23 <Gregor> Like I said.
04:52:31 <Gregor> Flavor.
04:55:07 <cpressey> also crashing
04:55:18 <Gregor> FLAVOR
04:57:06 <cpressey> "Mattel Electronics sold the rights for its Intellivision system to the INTV Corporation, who continued to produce Intellivision consoles and develop new games for the Intellivision until 1991."
04:57:55 <cpressey> !open
04:58:04 <cpressey> !sh open
04:58:30 <alise> zee5 rules
04:58:38 <alise> first minute anyway
04:59:14 <cpressey> have downloaded, still trying to play in a way that doesn't gefuck my system
04:59:40 <Gregor> LAWL
04:59:44 <Gregor> eRR
04:59:51 <Gregor> wHY IS MY CAPSLOCK ON
04:59:58 <alise> WHY NOT CAPSLOCK ALWAYS
05:02:06 <cpressey> YAY I HEAR Z5 nOW
05:02:24 <cpressey> i always liked this one anyway
05:02:43 <alise> oh that fixclip thing may not be the one that comes with audacity w/e
05:02:55 <alise> Gregor: what was it pre-flavour? soundfont?
05:03:17 <Gregor> alise: The only difference is adjusted volumes and panning.
05:03:28 <Gregor> Just makes it feel more ... complete.
05:03:52 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
05:04:01 <alise> http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2391 for tomorrow
05:04:57 <alise> "yes y|" useless use of yes' argument award
05:05:02 <alise> yes(1)'s, whatever
05:05:03 -!- wareya has joined.
05:05:27 <cpressey> gehhh
05:05:51 -!- augur has joined.
05:06:08 <cpressey> I shall make concessions to the sucky OS, and in doing so, shall be considered cool
05:06:48 <alise> cpressey: wut
05:06:59 <alise> that ltu article?
05:07:02 <alise> it's about hardware, not the os
05:07:23 <cpressey> I shall make concesions to the sucky hardware, then!
05:07:28 <cpressey> All glory to my algorithm!
05:07:30 <cpressey> G'narrrrr
05:07:43 <alise> cpressey: erm
05:07:48 <alise> these issues are pretty fundamental
05:08:01 <alise> you're just looking for something to complain about :)
05:08:23 <cpressey> I'm not complaining
05:08:35 <alise> ok
05:08:39 <cpressey> My interests do lie elsewhere, though
05:08:41 <Gregor> pikhq: http://codu.org/tmp/zee5-2010-10-08.flac zee5, now with IMPOTENCE!
05:09:44 <cpressey> alise: As I've mentioned before: give me an OS that will send my process a signal "I'm about to page you out! Is there any memory you could do without?" -- then let's talk
05:09:58 <cpressey> I know of no such OS currently
05:10:27 <cpressey> cooperation between different levels of the hierarchy is fucking almost nonexistent
05:11:23 <cpressey> jesus, Windows 7 and the CD-ROM... no, let's not even go there. I guess I should just be happy that the audio isn't done with A WIRE TO THE SOUND CARD anymore.
05:11:51 <cpressey> hey, zee5 is looping and i'm not even noticing
05:12:07 <Gregor> cpressey: ... really? What player do you have that loops seemlessly without asking it? :P
05:12:31 <cpressey> Gregor: um... "Totem Movie Player" apparently
05:12:47 <Gregor> Also, *seamlessly
05:15:50 <cpressey> Also, Eightebed, IE8, etc has made me think about how memory leaking is pretty much unvoidable (not that I"m giving up -- just re-contextualizing the problem -- you cannot trust programmers to get anything right, I'm afraid.)
05:16:12 <Gregor> Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarbage colleeeeeeeeection :P
05:16:12 <cpressey> Many many Java programs have shit memory management characteristics, GC or no GC.
05:16:23 <cpressey> Gregor: it's not enough, sadly.
05:16:37 <Gregor> Fair enough, you have to have non-stupid programmers too.
05:16:45 <Gregor> Or, solve the problem by buying more memory.
05:16:52 <Gregor> That's worked for CPU's 'til 2008 ;)
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05:17:07 <cpressey> Gregor: I used to HATE that thought. Now... well I still do but... fuck, I dunno.
05:17:13 <cpressey> DRINK IS THE ONLY SOLUTION
05:17:37 <Gregor> Put your brainpower into the more useful problem of programming models for parallelism that aren't totally unusable.
05:17:52 <cpressey> I also still grit my teeth at the sound of the phrase "Boehm conservative collector", but...
05:18:45 <alise> Gregor: what happened in 2008?
05:18:55 <cpressey> The childish, innocent part of me keeping wispering "program proving, chris... it's not just a pipe dream of dijsktra's, you know..."
05:19:02 <cpressey> *keeps
05:19:26 <cpressey> If we had feasible, workaday tools for proving, like we do for unit tests...
05:19:36 <Gregor> alise: I'm approximating the point where all energy started going into making more cores, rather than faster CPUs.
05:19:59 <cpressey> Good god, but programmers would have to *reason*. Well, argh, they *do*, kinda, but, also SO NO.
05:20:02 <alise> more like 2006-7
05:20:12 <alise> maybe not
05:20:17 <alise> yeah you're right
05:20:22 <Gregor> "All energy"
05:20:27 <alise> this 1.33ghz proc is zippy
05:20:29 <Gregor> Not "the first little bits"
05:20:29 <alise> :P
05:21:11 <cpressey> I had a prof, around 2008, who was very smart about the whole Moore's Law thing.
05:21:34 <cpressey> Moore's Law is something you see when your technology hasn't come near the limit of its potential yet.
05:22:02 <cpressey> The mid-oughts is where we started to see silicon IC technology come near the limit of its potential.
05:22:20 <Gregor> Yup
05:22:22 <cpressey> So all the effort started going towards "How can we parallelize"
05:22:24 <Gregor> And then we're all fucked.
05:22:29 <Gregor> And that's how!
05:22:30 <cpressey> And GUES WHAT?
05:22:45 <Gregor> We can't!
05:22:56 <cpressey> "How can we parallelize?" as a research question, is prit' near ISOMORPHIC to "Is P = NP?"
05:23:38 <oerjan> P = NC, actually ;D
05:23:41 <oerjan> iirc
05:24:06 <alise> goodnight
05:24:07 <alise> bye
05:24:09 <cpressey> oerjan: Oh fine, bring Nick into this :)
05:24:10 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving).
05:24:28 <oerjan> (still an incredibly hard, unsolved problem, of course)
05:24:51 <cpressey> I attended the university he was a Prof at for a long part of his career, but was too late -- he moved to some uni in the US by the time I was there.
05:25:07 <oerjan> aha
05:25:12 <cpressey> When I was there, there was almost *no one* there in theory or languages, in seriousness.
05:25:19 <cpressey> Which was sad.
05:25:47 <cpressey> Still, a few good people, in other areas (AI and uh... hardware theory, I gues you could say.)
05:26:07 * oerjan is following lipton's blog and occasionally balks at the custom of calling TCS simply "theory"
05:26:38 <oerjan> in his last post, he even used it to _contrast_ with mathematics
05:26:51 <cpressey> ^_-
05:30:05 <cpressey> oerjan: I'm not sure I'd agree with the P=NC characterization of "the parallelization agenda", *but*, maybe. I don't know enough about NC.
05:31:48 <cpressey> at any rate: http://www.hotchips.org/archives/hc21/2_mon/HC21.24.300.ParallelComputingCenters-Epub/HC21.24.310.Patterson-UCB-ParLab.pdf
05:32:24 <cpressey> that is (not exactly, but close to) the paper the smart HW/CS prof had us read in my "advanced computer architecture" class, around 2008
05:33:40 <cpressey> i keep thinking, sadly, that there is no real solution.
05:33:48 <cpressey> if your problem is parallelizable: great!
05:33:55 <cpressey> if not: too bad.
05:34:09 <oerjan> ...and that triggered an Adobe Reader update.
05:34:16 <cpressey> YAYAYYA
05:34:40 <cpressey> wish I could find the actual *paper* instead of presentations based on it
05:35:25 <cpressey> About the same time, "Fortress" was hot, too
05:35:36 <cpressey> My god! This is only 2.5 years later, really
05:35:57 <cpressey> It already seems like another internet generation has gone by
05:36:00 * cpressey is scared
05:36:15 <cpressey> Hm, but I'm still using the same chat protocol I used in 1995!
05:38:04 <cpressey> I thought teh futar might be in photonics, but, apparently not, because they still require coherent light (lasers), which require quite a bit of power.
05:38:21 <cpressey> If they could be done with sunlight...
05:38:49 <cpressey> (still listening to zee5, looping!)
05:38:59 <oerjan> graphene will save us all! AUM!
05:39:34 <cpressey> "Not to be confused with Grapheme." ty, wp
05:39:52 <oerjan> iirc there is also graphane
05:39:59 <cpressey> wait that's just... a graphite sheet
05:41:05 <augur> heyo
05:41:45 <oerjan> cpressey: and the star of this year's nobel prize in physics
05:42:15 <cpressey> "In 2008 graphene produced by exfoliation was one of the most expensive materials on Earth, with a sample that can be placed at the cross section of a human hair costing more than $1,000 as of April 2008 (about $100,000,000/cm2).[10] Since then, exfoliation procedures have been scaled up, and now companies sell graphene by the ton.[16]"
05:42:21 <cpressey> economies are weird that way
05:42:55 <cpressey> "oh, you WANT this? well, let's start making it"
05:43:06 <pikhq> There is such a thing is a digital speaker. There is seriously such a thing as a digital speaker.
05:43:12 <cpressey> and suddenly, you can afford it
05:43:26 <cpressey> pikhq: digital in... what sense?
05:43:34 <augur> hows life in the esosphere, peeps
05:43:40 <augur> anything interesting going on lately
05:43:52 <cpressey> augur: SPOLGRIFIC
05:44:00 <augur> wossit
05:44:01 <pikhq> Each bit of the digital audio drives a seperate speaker. The LSB drives a very small one, and the size of speakers doubles for each next bit.
05:44:15 <cpressey> pikhq: Cute!
05:44:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:44:54 -!- augur has joined.
05:45:07 <oerjan> pikhq: :D
05:45:19 <pikhq> For 16-bit audio reproduction, you need 16 seperate speakers... Starting with a 0.5 cm² driver would mean you would need a 3.2m² speaker system per channel.
05:45:42 <pikhq> Somewhat impractical, sure, but hey.
05:45:47 <cpressey> pikhq: but i would bet the fidelity is totally worth it.
05:45:51 <pikhq> It's a digital speaker, and the term digital actually applies.
05:46:04 <cpressey> well, maybe not. but... well, i dunno.
05:46:36 <cpressey> no, i am guessing it would be.
05:47:13 <oerjan> wouldn't that put a lot of stress on the highest bit speaker
05:47:19 <cpressey> driving all kinds of frequencies through 2 or 3 speakers, versus 16, each taking care of a relatively small slice
05:47:46 <pikhq> oerjan: Not really. Each speaker takes a different *volume*, not frequency.
05:47:55 <Gregor> pikhq: If ... whoah ... if ... omg ...
05:48:07 <pikhq> Which is why you double the size of the speakers as you go up.
05:48:12 <Gregor> pikhq: If you actually did that, then moved those speakers away from each other.
05:48:12 <Gregor> WHOAAAH
05:48:21 <cpressey> hey, maybe the world IS still going.
05:48:26 <pikhq> The only problem is that they need to run ultrasonically to avoid introducing *audible* artifacts.
05:48:27 <oerjan> pikhq: well yeah but it would have to change _very_ fast every time the total volume passed the 2^15 mark
05:48:32 <cpressey> (you see, i had half given up by now)
05:48:38 <pikhq> Oh, and they're expensive.
05:49:07 <pikhq> oerjan: Yeah, as a function of the audio frequency.
05:49:32 <oerjan> i guess if they make them they have to work
05:50:26 <cpressey> oerjan: uh well. for physical objects, yes
05:50:57 <cpressey> (i imagine the 2^16TWEETER is very small and delicate)
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05:52:44 <cpressey> the "if they made it, it has to work" does not in any way apply to processes that people come up with
05:52:50 <cpressey> because OMG THE PAIN, you have NO IDEA
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05:55:29 <augur> myndzi: \o/
05:55:30 <myndzi> |
05:55:30 <myndzi> |\
05:55:36 <oerjan> nonsense! now just let me finish this vacuum energy extractor and coffee maker i've designed.
05:55:50 <oerjan> (note: not actually the case)
05:57:31 <cpressey> err well "business" or "logistics" or "engineering" processes, anyway.
05:58:59 <cpressey> "
05:59:24 <cpressey> "Idea: Dynamically generate source code in C within the context of a Python or Ruby interpreter, allowing app to be written using Python or Ruby abstractions but automatically generating, compiling C at runtime"
05:59:29 <cpressey> sooooo 2008
06:00:19 <cpressey> ok um internet generation span might be shrinking below ambitious-project-comes-to-fruition threshhold, danger will robinson
06:00:55 <cpressey> ack "Day changed to 09 Oct 2010"
06:01:13 <cpressey> now everything i've just said is YESTERDAY'S NEWS
06:02:41 <cpressey> ack, and i was going to work on my BOT tonight, too.
06:03:40 <cpressey> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
06:04:08 <pikhq> cpressey: I especially like the U+F06F.
06:06:22 <cpressey> pikhq: ??? http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/f06f/fontsupport.htm Each one of those fonts renders it differently!
06:06:39 <cpressey> I am scared.
06:08:00 <cpressey> "U+F06F is not a valid unicode character"
06:08:37 <Gregor> Life is good within the BMP.
06:08:41 <Gregor> Do not leave the BMP.
06:09:08 <Gregor> If you leave the BMP, life is bad and they hate humens because they're from outer space and science.
06:09:55 <cpressey> Gregor: I take it you are *not* talking about Window BitMaPs.
06:09:58 <pikhq> Gregor: You must be a language implementor.
06:10:20 <pikhq> (most high-level languages for GOD KNOWS WHAT REASON handle UTF-8. But only the BMP.)
06:10:36 <pikhq> (Or, more bizarre, UTF-8. But with the UTF-16 surrogates. WHY GOD WHY)
06:11:22 <cpressey> pikhq: I do not understand any of it, except that you can sometimes bribe programs into making pretty symbols.
06:11:45 <pikhq> cpressey: Educate yourself on Unicode.
06:12:20 <pikhq> cpressey: And when you start thinking it seems slightly complex, educate yourself on the other character encoding standards.
06:12:43 <cpressey> pikhq: What's there to learn? I mean... no, I don't know what I mean.
06:12:49 <pikhq> At this point, I will be required to keep you away from weaponry for a few weeks, because you will be liable to wipe off a few nations.
06:13:36 <cpressey> Well see -- I am sort of preemptively at the point of "ooh, that ==> me ==> weaponry; best to go around it on tiptoe."
06:13:41 <Gregor> pikhq: Shall I point out the fact that Unicode is not a character encoding standard? :P
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06:14:12 <pikhq> Gregor: The Unicode Standard actually includes character encoding schemes. The Unicode Transformation Formats.
06:14:20 <Gregor> Bah foo
06:14:27 <Gregor> Nobody uses "Unicode" to mean UTF!
06:14:28 <Gregor> NO ONE
06:14:47 <pikhq> Except sometimes the set of UTFs.
06:14:52 <pikhq> :)
06:14:56 <Gregor> NO ONE
06:15:09 <cpressey> I know that (sigh. SIGH.) Python is fairly painless about "Hey! You said <gnarly symbol> in the program. You get <gnarly symbol> in memory (let's pretend, anyway.) And you get <gnarly symbol> on output. If you've set the env var correctly. And you're running a sophisticated enough terminal. So! That's that."
06:15:37 <pikhq> cpressey: Python fucks up its Unicode support outside of the BMP.
06:15:56 <cpressey> pikhq: perhaps I could downgrade "fairly" to "tolerably".
06:16:00 <cpressey> I mean, alternatives: Perl.
06:16:02 <Gregor> I wonder if the BMP-dependence has something to do with support for non-Unicode character sets ...
06:16:16 <cpressey> Ruby. (actually, i don't know how well Ruby does it.)(
06:16:30 <pikhq> Gregor: Nope.
06:16:59 <cpressey> Haskell: there is a UTF library which, my impression was, is tolerable, if you have it installed, dear god the packaging system well anyway
06:17:17 <pikhq> cpressey: GHC 6.12 has it "just work".
06:17:28 <oerjan> !haskell maxBound :: Char
06:17:35 * Rugxulo doesn't know what you're all talking about
06:17:43 <cpressey> pikhq: ah, I am currently at 6.8.something.
06:17:52 <oerjan> EgoBot: wake up!
06:17:55 <pikhq> Before that, it used Unicode strings internally but its IO routines assumed Windows-1252.
06:18:27 <pikhq> Gregor: Actually, the BMP-dependence has something to do with broken handling of UTF-16.
06:18:34 <oerjan> !echo hi
06:18:51 <cpressey> Rugxulo: what's up?
06:18:52 <oerjan> Gregor: dead as a doornail
06:18:54 <pikhq> Gregor: They use UTF-16 internally. And then go on to assume that 2 octets = 1 Unicode codepoint.
06:18:56 <Gregor> Patience, it's creaky :P
06:19:10 <Gregor> pikhq: Ohhhhhhh. Of course. So stupid.
06:19:12 <pikhq> Gregor: Which is absolutely completely and utterly wrong.
06:19:16 <cpressey> codu.org = 386 DLX with 16M RAM
06:19:26 <Gregor> cpressey: Don't I wish
06:19:32 <Gregor> Money doesn't grow on trees!
06:20:20 <oerjan> the aztecs had it _so_ much easier with money
06:20:34 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
06:20:43 <Gregor> Hyuk
06:20:50 <oerjan> Gregor: DEAD AS A DOORNAIL, I SAID
06:20:53 -!- EgoBot has joined.
06:21:01 <oerjan> !haskell maxBound :: Char
06:21:05 <EgoBot> '\1114111'
06:21:06 <pikhq> Oh, and Java uses "Modified UTF-8". Which is UTF-8 with *surrogate pairs* and encodes U+0 as 0xC0 0x80.
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06:21:33 <pikhq> Oh, so does Tcl.
06:21:41 <Gregor> Modified: For flavor!
06:21:41 <pikhq> For *external data*.
06:21:53 <pikhq> Surrogate pairs. WHY OH WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT YOU MORONS
06:22:37 <pikhq> I'm going to blame whoever invented surrogate pairs instead of just deprecating UCS-2, mmkay?
06:22:58 <Rugxulo> codu.org ???
06:23:07 <Gregor> codu.org solves all problems.
06:23:11 <Gregor> codu.org is the King.
06:23:14 <Gregor> codu.org is The One.
06:23:18 <Rugxulo> wait, I thought UTF-16 *was* two bytes per code point o_O
06:23:46 <pikhq> Rugxulo: NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO AND DID I MENTION NO
06:23:46 <Gregor> Rugxulo: It is within the BMP, but Unicode extends up to ... 21 bits?
06:23:47 <Rugxulo> what exactly are you arguing about, inferior Unicode support for various languages??
06:24:07 <pikhq> Rugxulo: UTF-16 is two or four bytes per code point.
06:24:32 <Rugxulo> hmmm, I am confused, there are too many variants
06:24:38 <Rugxulo> UCS-4 vs. UTF-16 ???
06:24:49 <cpressey> HOT DAMN. The midwest is the birthplace of Dungeons & Dragons. Gary Gygax was born in Chicago and lived in Lake Geneva, WI, most of his life.
06:24:56 <Gregor> UCS-4 is "write out 32-bit integers"
06:24:59 <pikhq> UCS-4, AKA UTF-32, is 4 bytes per code point. Always.
06:25:16 <Gregor> UCS-4 could also be called int * :P
06:25:19 <Rugxulo> heh, this is so boringly technical ... seriously, guys, do any of you even speak / write any languages outside of the BMP ???
06:25:42 <Gregor> I don't speak/write any languages outside of ASCII.
06:25:43 <pikhq> Rugxulo: はい、日本語で話す。
06:25:55 <pikhq> Gregor: Dude, English doesn't fit in ASCII.
06:25:59 <Rugxulo> doesn't count if you don't know what it means ;-)
06:26:02 <pikhq> Gregor: Naïve simpleton.
06:26:12 <Gregor> pikhq: I don't use diaeresis marks or ligatures!
06:26:18 <Rugxulo> who does? :-P
06:26:26 <Gregor> Everyone on #esoteric ! Including me.
06:26:27 <Rugxulo> besides, I think "naive" is a French loan word
06:26:39 <Gregor> So? It still has a diaeresis mark.
06:26:44 <Rugxulo> nope, Befunge-93 is blissfully ignorant of non-ASCII ;-)
06:26:49 <pikhq> Rugxulo: Yeah, but the diaeresis is due to English orthography.
06:26:55 <pikhq> Rugxulo: I speak Japanese. CJK is most of the excuse for Unicode. :)
06:26:55 <cpressey> Asciilish spoken here!
06:26:59 <Rugxulo> which nobody uses
06:27:12 <pikhq> Recently, maybe.
06:27:31 <Gregor> "Naive" is pronounced like "knave", "naïve" is pronounced like, well, "naïve"
06:27:35 <Rugxulo> pikhq, so what's the problem? Python, Perl, Java etc. all suck?
06:27:51 <Rugxulo> no, knave is pronounced like knave ;-)
06:27:56 <pikhq> Rugxulo: Java is at least handling Unicode, just in a somewhat stupid format.
06:28:00 <Rugxulo> naive is commonly spelled without special diacritics
06:28:14 <Gregor> Rugxulo: I'm being a sarcastic nitwit :P
06:28:24 <Rugxulo> esp. 'cause no dern Americans, dang it, give a crap ;-)
06:28:33 <pikhq> Python is just *fucking retarded*.
06:29:52 <cpressey> pikhq: In its Unicode handling only, or does that extend to, say, its approach to variable scoping? :D
06:30:05 <pikhq> cpressey: I make no judgements about the rest of it ATM.
06:30:13 <cpressey> pikhq: I hear ya.
06:30:26 <Gregor> Its variable scoping couldn't be worse than LISP Classique, BASIC or shell.
06:30:36 <pikhq> But its handling of Unicode is more braindead than 30 year old UNIX programs that are perfectly happy so long as the string ends with 0x00.
06:31:15 <cpressey> u'' is just another crazy "hope it works" thing to throw on the fire, along with '', "", r'', r"", """""", r""""""
06:31:34 <Gregor> Actually PHP's handling of Unicode is pretty pragmatic. In that it's exactly as supportive of Unicode as C is: You get bytes, and if you want those to be in a format, you do that yourself.
06:31:59 <cpressey> and apparently Guido took a year to put Unicode into the language. A year.
06:31:59 <Gregor> (Where "yourself" really means "with libraries")
06:32:25 <Rugxulo> 2.0 was the first with Unicode, and that was ages ago (right?)
06:33:12 <Rugxulo> even 2.x is only guaranteed to be maintained for a few years (until 3.x kicks in ... though no mainstream Linux includes it yet, AFAIR)
06:33:45 <pikhq> Rugxulo: Gentoo has both 2.x and 3.x installed side-by-side.
06:33:52 <Gregor> s/includes it/includes it as \/usr\/bin\/python/
06:34:12 <pikhq> Gregor: Not by default, no.
06:34:20 <cpressey> "This Unicode module provides Unicode::String and Unicode::Character implemented by pure ruby based on iconv."
06:34:27 <cpressey> I see something like that -> I worry.
06:34:29 <cpressey> Should I?
06:34:46 <pikhq> Gregor: BTW: s|includes it|includes it as /usr/bin/python| you can use any delimiter.
06:34:59 <Gregor> pikhq: Using delimiters other than / is for PUSSIES.
06:35:08 <pikhq> cpressey: "based on iconv" is hopeful.
06:35:14 <Rugxulo> heheheh, no, sometimes it's much easier to read
06:35:15 <pikhq> iconv does all character sets correctly.
06:35:30 <cpressey> pikhq: Really? OK, that is good to hear
06:36:00 <cpressey> Oh, other pet peeves of mine:
06:36:08 <cpressey> /usr/bin/python
06:36:10 <pikhq> Only thing more pedantic is ICU.
06:36:12 <cpressey> /usr/bin/lua
06:36:15 <cpressey> /usr/bin/ruby
06:36:16 <cpressey> great.
06:36:23 <Gregor> /usr/bin/env python
06:36:25 <cpressey> what version of the languages do you guys interpret?
06:36:30 <cpressey> "The latest"?
06:36:32 <cpressey> fantastic
06:36:55 <cpressey> /usr/bin/env python, even better. setting myself for a path injection exploit
06:37:28 <Gregor> It's not an exploit if the user can run your program ...
06:37:39 <Gregor> They could just run it as .../whatever/python yourthing.py anyway
06:38:02 <Gregor> It's only an exploit if the user can set PATH but not run arbitrary binaries, which is a bizarre situation.
06:38:07 <pikhq> cpressey: If you've got a malicious python injected into your path you're already fucked.
06:38:34 <pikhq> Especially since that could be anything else injected as well.
06:38:41 <pikhq> (say, ls?)
06:39:20 <Rugxulo> "the latest" ... I don't understand, you mean you don't like having only one implementation?? or just the constantly moving target?
06:40:16 <cpressey> well, the env thing might be a bit paranoid on my part, i admit. still -- i like to know WHICH binary it's going to run...
06:40:43 <Rugxulo> they really are between a rock and a hard place ... wanting to abandon 2.x but can't force people
06:40:56 <cpressey> as for "the latest" -- I wrote my script for some version of the language -- can I not say "please interpret it with this version of the language"?
06:41:17 <Gregor> cpressey: Anyway, your versioned shebang idea is about as good an idea as symbol versioning in libc.
06:41:19 <Gregor> Only worse.
06:41:30 <Gregor> (And symbol versioning in libc is a friggin' terrible idea)
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06:41:59 <Rugxulo> Perl has "require 5.005" or something, right?
06:42:02 <cpressey> Gregor: it could be an argument. like /usr/bin/foo --gte 5.0 --lt 6.0
06:42:12 <cpressey> Rugxulo: Perl does have that.
06:42:21 <pikhq> cpressey: Minor issue — people are morons.
06:42:28 <Gregor> cpressey: That would be tolerable I spose.
06:42:42 <Rugxulo> I'm sure there's some way to detect at runtime the appropriate version, even if it's a lame workaround
06:43:11 <pikhq> Tcl's actually got something vaguely reasonable. "package require Tcl 8.5"
06:43:13 <Rugxulo> what sucks is they implicitly seem to blame end users for not upgrading to 3.x
06:43:16 <cpressey> well, for that matter, an interpreter could interpret multiple languages. /usr/bin/mysuperwow --lua --version 5.1.2
06:43:23 <pikhq> Voila, you've stated that your program is expecting Tcl 8.5.
06:43:29 <Rugxulo> sure, if they were standardized ... but they aren't
06:43:47 <Rugxulo> you need an ISO language then ;-) which will of course be horribly bastardized and shunned completely by everyone
06:43:57 <Gregor> JavaScript! (Well, ECMA)
06:44:10 <Rugxulo> ha, the only name worse than JavaScript is ECMAscript, sheesh!!
06:44:29 <cpressey> ECMAScript sounds like something you need a prescription for, yes.
06:44:35 <pikhq> Gregor: C is an ISO standard.
06:44:45 <Rugxulo> "EczemaScript ... try it today"
06:45:03 <pikhq> ISO-9899:1999
06:45:11 <Rugxulo> right, and you can test against __STDC__ (I think)
06:45:35 <cpressey> Pascal, Eiffel, Ada also have standards. But Perl and Python and Ruby probably never will.
06:45:45 <Rugxulo> even REXX supports "parse version" to detect itself
06:45:55 <pikhq> cpressey: Perl 6 has a standard and no primary implementation.
06:46:05 <cpressey> pikhq: OK well Perl 6 is a bit of a freak.
06:46:07 <Rugxulo> Befunge doesn't, but I wrote my own lame-o program to test that at runtime
06:46:20 <Rugxulo> Perl 6 isn't even finalized
06:46:35 <cpressey> Perl 6 is, uh, MACHOWARE
06:46:35 <pikhq> Rugxulo: Okay, okay, provisional standard.
06:46:36 <Rugxulo> it's been in the works for quite a while, but at least Rakudo Star is semi-close to a stable release
06:47:07 <Rugxulo> PUGS is (I think?) abandoned
06:47:49 <Gregor> JavaScript gets no love :P
06:47:59 <cpressey> Still, my point was: there is a cultural divide here; Python and Ruby and such things don't NEED standards, thankyouverymuch.
06:48:23 <cpressey> Of course, I say this now, and tomorrow, someone is going to invent a standards track for Python.
06:48:24 <pikhq> Nor does Ruby need a good implementation.
06:48:25 <pikhq> :)
06:49:20 <cpressey> Ruby would be yet another obscure experimental gnarly language, were it not for Killer App Mr. Rails.
06:49:32 <cpressey> Of course, I say this now...
06:49:33 <pikhq> Rails sucks worse than Ruby.
06:49:50 <cpressey> pikhq: But the demo!
06:50:18 <cpressey> (The sound of a decision being made on a questionable basis)
06:50:34 <Rugxulo> you need some form of compatibility or else it's one big nightmare to maintain anything
06:50:37 <cpressey> Anyway, Django. Nuff said.
06:50:42 <Rugxulo> maybe not standard per se, but something!
06:51:06 <pikhq> I have a simple policy for web frameworks. It must be at least as good as CGI in C.
06:51:09 <Rugxulo> every point release in Ruby seems to break something (at least in theory)
06:51:21 <pikhq> (this is a fairly simple lower bound, but *things fail at it*)
06:51:37 <cpressey> Rugxulo: A de facto "only" implementation, is usually what.
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06:51:59 <Rugxulo> which is dumb, IMHO
06:52:10 <cpressey> Rugxulo: I'm of that school of thought as well.
06:54:26 <Rugxulo> everything only gets more complicated, more bloated, never slimmer (except Oberon)
06:54:43 <Rugxulo> and even there, he seemed to almost remove too much :-P
06:55:40 <pikhq> Remember kids: the backspace key is the most productive key on the keyboard.
06:56:01 <cpressey> AHHHHHHHHH
06:57:17 <Rugxulo> ?
06:57:21 <Rugxulo> ^?
06:57:46 <cpressey> trying to figure out Lua's unicode support (It... doesn't have any.)
06:58:45 <pikhq> Which means that it's halfway to UTF-8 support. :P
06:58:48 <Rugxulo> Lua is extremely minimal in some ways
06:58:58 <Rugxulo> it's not 10 MB Bzip's for a reason!!
07:00:22 * pikhq should sleep
07:00:27 <pikhq> For the next... 12 hours.
07:00:48 <Rugxulo> bah, it's only 1am here ;-)
07:01:37 <pikhq> GOOD NIGHT
07:01:45 <pikhq> オヤスミ!
07:02:00 <pikhq> (OYASUMI!)
07:05:08 <Rugxulo> sushi yoshi
07:05:25 <Rugxulo> tamagotchi matsumoto shigeru
07:05:33 <Rugxulo> hyundai toyota mitsubishi
07:06:33 <Rugxulo> BTW, who was it that was LLVM obsessed? fizzie??
07:06:48 <Rugxulo> somebody whined about a computed goto bug ... I assume that was fixed in recent release??
07:08:54 <Gregor> Vorpal, cpressey, pikhq, whoever: http://codu.org/tmp/zee2-2010-10-09.ogg zee2, now with FLAVOR! (actually I think I made this one worse ... )
07:11:07 <Gregor> (This one suffers most from the "disproportionately good piano soundfont" problem, so I had to do some tricks to make the piano less different, but I think that made things all wonky)
07:12:31 <cpressey> Rugxulo: you're in my timezone!
07:12:43 <Rugxulo> CST?
07:12:53 <cpressey> yes
07:12:56 <cpressey> I'm in Chicago
07:13:15 <Rugxulo> I'm a bit further south than you though
07:13:53 <Rugxulo> so the pizza's not as good ;-)
07:17:58 <Rugxulo> "24 hours Gregor Richards Changed to GPL" ... heh
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07:18:09 <Rugxulo> good, don't let MS "EEE" your ZEE (or would it be ZEEE?)
07:18:09 -!- augur has joined.
07:33:16 <Rugxulo> BTW, I read Herr Wirth call Lisp "esoteric" somewhere ... surely he didn't mean it in the literal sense that we know of ;-)
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07:38:03 <cpressey> Probably not. People call (parts of) Perl and Haskell "esoteric" all the time...
07:38:12 <cpressey> storkbot: Hi.
07:38:12 <storkbot> cpressey: Meh.
07:38:19 <cpressey> storkbot: @foo = 99
07:38:19 <storkbot> cpressey: @foo set to 99.
07:38:27 <cpressey> storkbot: print [@foo]
07:38:27 <storkbot> cpressey: 99
07:38:36 <cpressey> AND SO IT BEGINS
07:38:39 <cpressey> but I must sleep.
07:38:42 <cpressey> Good night
07:41:13 <Rugxulo> nitey nite
07:41:45 <Rugxulo> don't let the compiler bugs byte
07:54:07 <GreaseMonkey> is that ruby?
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08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:01:47 * Rugxulo shrugs
08:11:21 -!- Rugxulo has quit (Read error: No route to host).
09:04:26 <cheater00> what are you basing any of this on???
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09:41:30 <Vorpal> Gregor, nice music!
09:45:36 <Vorpal> Gregor, a bit repetitive at times though? Probably fits the intended use of it though.
09:49:15 <Vorpal> hm I wonder how tricky it would be to generate the effects of a binaural recording on a computer? Perhaps on the fly. Would be interesting for 3D FPS games
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10:01:22 <Vorpal> hm seems it has been done to some degree in EAX and similar stuff
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10:47:36 <olsner> Vorpal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function
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12:26:58 <Vorpal> olsner, indeed found that a while after I asked
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13:05:19 <nooga> guys
13:05:30 <nooga> what were those postulates of nakamura
13:05:34 <nooga> or something like that
13:05:47 <nooga> with 'specialization' stuff
13:07:24 <Phantom_Hoover> No idea.
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13:28:30 <nooga> there was somethink like statement that one could specialize an interpreter and obtain compiler
13:40:55 <Phantom_Hoover> What, you mean use the SBCL model of compilation?
13:44:24 <nooga> yeah
13:44:45 <nooga> but there was this japanese surname and cool explanation with pictures
13:44:52 <nooga> with tokens and meat mincers
13:49:26 <cpressey> sounds cool
13:49:26 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, hm? what is the SBCL model?
13:49:45 <cpressey> olsner: I read that as "heat-related transfer function" and was like What?
13:50:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, just that functions etc. are compiled at runtime.
13:52:32 <Phantom_Hoover> And nothing is interpreted.
13:52:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Eval works by compiling a lambda and calling it IIRC.
13:53:08 <cpressey> So, like Factor, except in Lisp.
13:53:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Probably.
13:53:38 <Phantom_Hoover> I don't know Factor.
13:54:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Fun fact: if can be defined in Lisp using only lambdas and macros.
13:54:35 <cpressey> nooga: You *may* be thinking of "partial evaluation": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_evaluation
13:54:59 <cpressey> Someone named Yoshihiko Futamura did significant work on it.
13:56:24 <cpressey> (and no it is not Ruby but GreaseMonkey isn't here for me to inform anyway)
13:59:14 <Phantom_Hoover> "Yoshihiko Futurama" was what I immediately read that as.
14:02:04 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, hm
14:02:17 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I thought sbcl could compile statically as well?
14:02:23 <Vorpal> maybe I misremember
14:02:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, "static compilation" is a rather misfitting concept in Lisp.
14:03:39 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well. mostly because you can redefine a top level function anywhere
14:03:53 <Vorpal> still, you could do it by using a lookup table for those
14:04:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, exactly, the compiler needs to be available at all times.
14:04:41 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, not really, I think you could compile all code blocks, then have a function name → code block lookup table that could be changed at runtime
14:04:48 <Vorpal> would be quite a pain though
14:04:55 <Vorpal> and probably would slow everything down a lot
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14:05:41 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, iirc there is some scheme R4RS-minus-breaking-static-compilation implementation. Highly optimising, meant for number crushing
14:05:44 <Vorpal> crunching*
14:05:46 <Vorpal> forgot the name of it
14:05:53 <Vorpal> ask alise, he told me about it
14:07:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, you cannot do static compilation in Lisp, even with painful hacks.
14:07:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Consider (eval `(defun foo () ,(read *stdin*))
14:09:23 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well, I think that one didn't allow eval
14:09:34 <Vorpal> which makes it a whole lot easier
14:09:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Scheme doesn't define an eval IIRC.
14:09:49 <Vorpal> hm indeed
14:10:05 <Vorpal> scheme allows (define + -) or such though
14:10:19 <Vorpal> which this implementation did not of course
14:17:58 <cpressey> Scheme exists in part because it does not define eval
14:18:06 <cpressey> Otherwise it would be JAL
14:18:12 <cpressey> (Just Another Lisp)
14:19:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Why isn't it without eval?
14:19:44 <cpressey> "Because it's *Scheme*"
14:20:01 <cpressey> the distinction is less artificial somehow
14:25:12 <cpressey> storkbot: @topic=assignment
14:25:13 <storkbot> cpressey: @topic set to assignment.
14:25:20 <cpressey> storkbot: help [@topic]
14:25:20 <storkbot> cpressey: @a=1 [server-scope assignment]
14:26:22 <cpressey> storkbot: @m=3
14:26:23 <storkbot> cpressey: @m set to 3.
14:26:29 <cpressey> storkbot: print [@m] [@m]
14:26:29 <storkbot> cpressey: 3 [@m]
14:30:38 <Vorpal> cpressey, hm, what language?
14:30:50 <Vorpal> storkbot, hi
14:30:50 <storkbot> Vorpal: Meh.
14:30:57 <Vorpal> storkbot: help
14:30:57 <storkbot> Vorpal: Help is available for: assignment print
14:31:00 <Vorpal> storkbot: help print
14:31:00 <storkbot> Vorpal: print [@a] [send contents of @a to stdout]
14:31:05 <Vorpal> storkbot: print foo
14:31:05 <storkbot> Vorpal: foo
14:31:08 <Vorpal> storkbot: print @foo
14:31:09 <storkbot> Vorpal: @foo
14:31:12 <Vorpal> storkbot: print @a
14:31:13 <storkbot> Vorpal: @a
14:31:17 <Vorpal> uhu
14:31:29 <Vorpal> storkbot: print [@foo]
14:31:29 <storkbot> Vorpal: 99
14:31:32 <Vorpal> storkbot: print [@jashdjas]
14:31:33 <storkbot> Vorpal:
14:31:35 <Vorpal> ah
14:33:06 <Phantom_Hoover> storkbot, whither storkbot?
14:33:06 <storkbot> Phantom_Hoover: Meh.
14:35:04 <cpressey> Vorpal: I'm making the language up as I go along
14:37:02 <Vorpal> cpressey, hm, interesting approach.
14:39:01 <cpressey> the idea is sort of that the language and the IRC protocl overlap
14:39:15 <Phantom_Hoover> storkbot, what manner of man are you?
14:39:15 <storkbot> Phantom_Hoover: Meh.
14:39:48 <cpressey> also, implemented in lua, with parsing implemented with lua pattern matching. real professional-like.
14:42:42 <Vorpal> cpressey, heh
14:43:04 <Vorpal> cpressey, so CTCP ACTION will have some special meaning?
14:44:16 <cpressey> it might!
14:45:05 <cpressey> i think i want to prevent it from being programmed to send absolutely arbitrary irc commands, though
14:45:42 <cpressey> too easy to make botloops etc
14:47:10 <Vorpal> storkbot, print a\nb
14:47:10 <storkbot> Vorpal: a\nb
14:47:20 <Vorpal> cpressey, how does one escape a newline in a string?
14:47:28 <Vorpal> storkbot, print foo\nQUIT
14:47:29 <storkbot> Vorpal: foo\nQUIT
14:47:30 <cpressey> one doesn't. yet, anyway
14:47:33 <Vorpal> is what I wnat to do :P
14:47:36 <Vorpal> want*
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15:14:33 -!- cpressey has changed nick to cpressey_.
15:16:02 -!- cpressey_ has changed nick to cpressey.
15:17:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Incidentally, I was further considering Sierpiński numbers, and I realised that the trit-based scheme I had was /precisely/ equivalent to n-coin Hanoi.
15:22:55 <cpressey> I'm used to them being called rings.
15:23:02 <cpressey> Or discs.
15:23:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, look at Mr Pressey with his fancy /rings/ for Hanoi.
15:24:06 <cpressey> Top hit for "n-coin Hanoi" is this Forth program: http://christophe.lavarenne.free.fr/ff/hanoi
15:24:12 <cpressey> *Google hit
15:25:27 <cpressey> "Use: to move one coin between two stacks, enter the name of the third stack;
15:25:33 <cpressey> how very forthish
15:34:56 <nooga>
15:36:08 <Phantom_Hoover>
15:36:41 <cpressey> .
15:41:06 <nooga> ÷ WHAT I JUST DID?
15:41:22 <nooga> i don't remember posting null string
15:43:49 -!- alise has joined.
15:47:07 <alise> 21:42:55 <cpressey> "oh, you WANT this? well, let's start making it"
15:47:07 <alise> 21:44:01 <pikhq> Each bit of the digital audio drives a seperate speaker. The LSB drives a very small one, and the size of speakers doubles for each next bit.
15:47:11 <alise> are they any good, though?
15:47:21 <alise> 21:45:19 <pikhq> For 16-bit audio reproduction, you need 16 seperate speakers... Starting with a 0.5 cm² driver would mean you would need a 3.2m² speaker system per channel.
15:47:22 <alise> right :P
15:47:44 <alise> 21:48:12 <Gregor> pikhq: If you actually did that, then moved those speakers away from each other.
15:47:45 <alise> YES
15:47:51 <alise> Just arrange them randomly around the room
15:51:37 <alise> 22:25:19 <Rugxulo> heh, this is so boringly technical ... seriously, guys, do any of you even speak / write any languages outside of the BMP ???
15:51:55 <alise> entrant in my Most Xenophobic Comment of the Year award
15:53:54 -!- storkbot has joined.
15:53:56 <Phantom_Hoover> BMP?
15:56:05 <alise> google it :P
15:56:07 <alise> 22:34:20 <cpressey> "This Unicode module provides Unicode::String and Unicode::Character implemented by pure ruby based on iconv."
15:56:07 <alise> 22:34:27 <cpressey> I see something like that -> I worry.
15:56:07 <alise> 22:34:29 <cpressey> Should I?
15:56:10 <alise> well.
15:56:14 <alise> ruby has native unicode support since 1.9
15:56:16 <alise> of a sort
15:56:26 <alise> so you shouldn't need that, if it's a third-party lib
15:57:21 <alise> 22:42:02 <cpressey> Gregor: it could be an argument. like /usr/bin/foo --gte 5.0 --lt 6.0
15:57:25 <alise> unfortunately there's a limit to shebangs
15:57:39 <alise> i think you'd get anywhere from --gte to --gte 5.0 being actually passed there
15:57:45 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, Google gives no hint as to what "BMP" means in that contexy.
15:57:47 <Phantom_Hoover> *xt
15:57:48 <alise> not sure though; definitely not the whole thing
15:57:50 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: bmp unicode
15:58:58 <alise> 22:48:24 <pikhq> Nor does Ruby need a good implementation.
15:58:59 <alise> 22:48:25 <pikhq> :)
15:59:01 <alise> YARV is... decent
15:59:06 <alise> faster than python iirc
15:59:26 <alise> 22:49:33 <pikhq> Rails sucks worse than Ruby.
15:59:26 <alise> the Merb team took over the Rails team, so Rails 3 will be technically better, if not DHH himself ;)
15:59:36 <alise> 22:50:37 <cpressey> Anyway, Django. Nuff said.
15:59:37 <alise> no.
15:59:40 <alise> cpressey: no.
16:01:20 <alise> 05:28:30 <nooga> there was somethink like statement that one could specialize an interpreter and obtain compiler
16:01:20 <alise> 05:40:55 <Phantom_Hoover> What, you mean use the SBCL model of compilation?
16:01:20 <alise> no
16:01:23 <alise> nooga: i know what you are talking about
16:01:38 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: that is not what SBCL does
16:01:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Isn't it?
16:02:07 <cpressey> alise: nooga was talking about partial evaluation i'm pretty sure
16:02:12 <alise> no
16:02:13 <alise> sort of
16:02:17 <alise> i know what he is talking about
16:02:20 <alise> and have read a lot on the matter
16:02:25 <alise> there are indeed such postulates
16:02:33 <cpressey> not Futurama's postulates?
16:02:34 <alise> nooga: http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/ <-- this guy did a lot on it a while back, search the archives
16:02:39 <alise> no
16:02:43 <alise> well
16:02:46 <alise> it sounds like that, yeah
16:03:01 <alise> but i don't recall the exact name
16:03:27 <nooga> alise: thx
16:04:26 <alise> i swear i will find those postulates :D
16:04:26 <cpressey> Futamura only has projections, not postulates, it would sem
16:04:28 <cpressey> *seem
16:04:57 <alise> THAT'S IT
16:05:05 <alise> nooga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_evaluation#Futamura_projections
16:05:15 <alise> http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/?s=futamura
16:05:38 <cpressey> so, yes: alise: nooga was talking about partial evaluation i'm pretty sure
16:05:45 <alise> well, it is
16:05:48 <alise> but it's not entirely that
16:05:49 <alise> it's specialisation
16:05:51 <nooga> alise: thx!
16:05:56 <nooga> interesting blog btw
16:06:43 <cpressey> nooga: http://blog.sigfpe.com/2009/05/three-projections-of-doctor-futamura.html
16:06:48 <cpressey> the diagrams of which you speak?
16:06:55 <nooga> yepp
16:06:58 <nooga> thx guys
16:07:11 <alise> meanwhile, luke palmer's music: http://hubrisarts.com/luke/Adagio.mp3
16:07:22 <nooga> i wanted to show this to my friend
16:07:27 <alise> nooga: his blog is awesome, disregard the personal whining
16:07:31 <alise> the tech stuff is great
16:07:49 <alise> nooga: he has some actual work on specialising interpreters and stuff
16:08:12 <Phantom_Hoover> The sheer size of Unicode amazes me...
16:08:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Planes 3-13 are unassigned.
16:08:59 <alise> http://blog.sigfpe.com/2009/05/three-projections-of-doctor-futamura.html?showComment=1241544840000#c4193054871836213800 btw
16:09:02 <Phantom_Hoover> > 11 * (2 ^ 16)
16:09:20 <alise> you mean ** iirc
16:09:22 <alise> maybe not
16:09:26 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: no lambdabot
16:09:30 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: you'll have to ask for it again
16:09:36 <Phantom_Hoover> :(
16:10:38 <alise> "Guy Steele said..."
16:10:43 <alise> from that sigfpe blog post
16:10:54 * Phantom_Hoover wonders what the graph of 4-tower Hanoi looks like.
16:12:32 <alise> 06:09:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Scheme doesn't define an eval IIRC.
16:12:33 <alise> 06:17:58 <cpressey> Scheme exists in part because it does not define eval
16:12:33 <alise> 06:18:06 <cpressey> Otherwise it would be JAL
16:12:33 <alise> 06:18:12 <cpressey> (Just Another Lisp)
16:12:36 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: cpressey: you are both full of crap
16:12:38 <alise> Scheme has EVAL
16:13:05 <Phantom_Hoover> I was under the impression that RnRS didn't have it at one point.
16:13:40 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: "Although the three-peg version has a simple recursive solution as outlined above, the optimal solution for the Tower of Hanoi problem with four pegs (called Reve's puzzle), let alone more pegs, is still an open problem."
16:14:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Well... An argument could be made that it would be the Sierpiński pyramid, but that's evidenceless speculation.
16:14:59 <cpressey> alise: oh, indeed it does, R5 at least
16:15:01 <alise> Okay, R3RS doesn't have eval.
16:15:06 <alise> @ignore todo
16:15:06 <alise> Comparison with the dialect used in [SICP]
16:15:06 <alise> Compare with S&ICP: simple renamings like @t{print}; easily
16:15:06 <alise> implemented things like @t{cons-stream}; more grave and controversial
16:15:06 <alise> omissions like @t{eval} and @t{make-envi@-ron@-ment}.
16:15:06 <alise> @end ignore
16:15:25 <alise> or r4rs
16:15:29 <alise> but apparently things had it anyway
16:15:34 <alise> things = all things basically
16:16:35 * Phantom_Hoover doesn't have eval.
16:17:16 <cpressey> At the very least I've always perceived the Scheme community to be relatively eval-hostile.
16:19:06 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: I suspect the presence of the word "optimal" there implies that there are multiple solutions when you have four pegs.
16:19:46 <cpressey> Oh wait, that may not matter for you
16:19:58 <cpressey> It's just a graph of all moves
16:20:04 <cpressey> That's decidable
16:20:17 <cpressey> ....tkwim
16:20:23 <cpressey> *y
16:27:51 <alise> twok
16:28:14 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I propose we name the Sierpinski sections.
16:28:16 <alise> Up, left, and right.
16:28:19 <alise> or top.
16:28:21 <alise> Or up.
16:28:23 <alise> Yes, up.
16:28:35 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: how is that equivalent to hanoi?
16:28:39 <nooga> ooh
16:29:10 <alise> nooga: wut
16:32:41 <alise> Phantom_Hoover:
16:32:45 <alise> centre :: Path
16:32:45 <alise> centre = U:L:R:centre
16:32:47 <alise> what point ist his?
16:32:48 <alise> *is this?
16:32:51 <alise> it's not actually the centre
16:35:09 <cpressey> I'm sorry, Mr Steele, pictures of pictures of things are isomorphic, for our purposes, to pictures of things
16:35:37 <cpressey> alise: it is the centre. just not the TWO DIMENSIONAL centre.
16:35:52 <alise> wat.
16:35:54 <cpressey> it is the three points on middle of the the inside of U, L, and R
16:36:00 <cpressey> IS MY CLAIM
16:36:10 <alise> hmm right i can see what it is
16:36:17 <alise> you know the left one inside the upper one?
16:36:18 <alise> of the whole thing
16:36:21 <alise> it's at the rightmost edge of that
16:36:28 <cpressey> except it's not three points, it's one... fractal point.
16:36:32 <alise> infinitesimally close to the hueg no-point space in the middle
16:36:32 <alise> i think
16:38:30 <alise> 05:56:24 <cpressey> (and no it is not Ruby but GreaseMonkey isn't here for me to inform anyway)
16:38:30 <alise> wut
16:40:41 <cpressey> alise: GreaseMonkey thought storkbot (nee mzstorkipiwanbot) was running Ruby
16:41:52 <alise> ah
16:41:55 <cpressey> anyway I don't see why Pic (in the comments of sigfpe's Futamura article) isn't a comonad; given a machine that turns a's into b's, and a picture of an a, we can build an a, feed it to the machine, get a b, and take a picture of it.
16:42:00 <pikhq> Hmm. Should I give up on ddrescue or let this keep going?
16:42:27 <cpressey> I must have missed something
16:42:46 <cpressey> Oh yeah, no a -> Pic a
16:42:58 <cpressey> So no taking a picture of b
16:44:01 <alise> pikhq: for what?
16:44:31 <cpressey> storkbot: ~/c=help
16:44:31 <storkbot> cpressey: ~/c set to help.
16:44:43 <cpressey> storkbot: ~/t=assignment
16:44:43 <storkbot> cpressey: ~/t set to assignment.
16:44:48 <alise> storkbot: ~/c
16:44:48 <storkbot> alise: I have no idea what you're talking about.
16:44:51 <alise> racist
16:44:53 <alise> :|
16:45:05 <cpressey> storkbot: [~/c] [~/t]
16:45:06 <storkbot> cpressey: Assign a user-scope variable with ~/foo=1. Assign a server-scope variable with @bar=1.
16:45:35 <alise> this language is crazy.
16:45:45 <cheater00> alise: what are you basing any of this on???
16:46:01 <cpressey> cheater00: didn't you ask that last night?
16:46:29 <cheater00> cpressey: "didn't you" is relative
16:48:00 <cpressey> cheater00: that's... uh
16:48:16 <cpressey> cheater00: you're prompting me to ask what "any of this" refers to
16:49:01 <cheater00> cpressey: :)
16:49:04 <cpressey> alise: thank you, by the way
16:49:35 <cpressey> storkbot: goto goto goto print hi
16:49:35 <storkbot> cpressey: hi
16:50:31 <alise> storkbot: goto
16:50:31 <storkbot> alise: That's wonderful for you!
16:50:35 <alise> storkbot: goto dengo
16:50:35 <storkbot> alise: I disagree!
16:50:44 <alise> storkbot: goto goto goto goto goto goat
16:50:44 <storkbot> alise: That's wonderful for you!
16:50:48 <alise> LANGUAGE SUCKS
16:50:49 <pikhq> alise: CD
16:51:14 <pikhq> The only real argument for keeping it going is "well, it's not like *I* need to do anything about it."
16:51:16 <alise> pikhq: something you can torrent?
16:51:30 <pikhq> Probably.
16:52:29 <cpressey> storkbot: damn, do you not syntax error normally ever now?
16:52:29 <storkbot> cpressey: I disagree!
16:57:17 <alise> pikhq: check you can, do so, evaporate CD, inhale
16:57:25 <alise> consume content while high on COMPACT DISC
16:57:36 <pikhq> "720x400" Why would you do that to a 16:9 anamorphic DVD?
17:00:54 <alise> pikhq: I wonder if Usenet has any better shit than this torrent crap. (It may be faster, but... expiry and stuff.)
17:01:04 <alise> Shitty crap crap shit.
17:01:55 <alise> pikhq: So anyway: should I try and find that good 95?
17:02:02 <pikhq> alise: Please do so.
17:02:23 <pikhq> I shall find some coffee.
17:02:31 <alise> pikhq: http://www.torrentz.com/5051d8aebaeb47e223869d656a83d07041adefc7 Your job is to figure out what PS means, and if it means it's worth downloading or not. :P
17:04:17 <pikhq> Pashto.
17:04:37 <pikhq> An Indo-Iranian language; one of the two official languages of Afghanistan.
17:04:49 <cpressey> pikhq: That's a damned fine idea.
17:04:52 <cpressey> The coffee, I mean.
17:05:18 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, what were you saying about Sierpiński stuff?
17:05:20 <cpressey> But I guess Pasto is an acceptable idea as well.
17:05:24 <cpressey> *Pashto
17:05:34 <pikhq> Okay, no, that can't be it.
17:05:47 <pikhq> No Pashto localisation of ANY version of Windows.
17:05:57 <alise> http://xkcd.com/95/
17:06:08 <alise> (it's so terrible for an early comic but it's so funny...)
17:06:11 <alise> and i have no idea why
17:06:33 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, well
17:06:37 <alise> data Section = Up | Left | Right
17:06:37 <alise> data Path = [Section]
17:06:56 <alise> Phantom_Hoover:
17:06:56 <alise> centre :: Path
17:06:56 <alise> centre = U:L:R:centr
17:06:59 <alise> *centre
17:07:02 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Where's dat
17:07:24 <Phantom_Hoover> It spirals, presumably to a fixed point in the top triangle.
17:07:30 <alise> It seems so.
17:07:38 * alise renames to "foo"
17:07:48 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: now we just have to write a program to plot these points. aieee.
17:08:04 <Phantom_Hoover> The origin is orig = Up : orig in my scheme.
17:08:10 <alise> mine too
17:08:12 <alise> U:topE
17:08:17 <alise> i also have left and right E
17:08:32 <alise> anyway, if we say up = 0, left = 1, and right = 2, and it's represented as 1/n... no that doesn't work because of 0
17:08:38 <alise> but at the same time we can't use up=0 and no 1/n beacuse then
17:08:42 <alise> *because
17:08:43 <alise> 0000n = n
17:08:44 <alise> grumble
17:08:48 <alise> this is the problem with this stuff
17:08:50 <alise> you need a different representation
17:09:42 <alise> xkcdsucks is over
17:11:41 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: oh wait i have it
17:11:48 <alise> 0.[the infinite trinary string]
17:11:52 <cpressey> oh yeah, it is in the top triangle.
17:11:58 <alise> obviously
17:12:01 <alise> it starts with up :P
17:12:03 <alise> so if up=0, left=1, right=1
17:12:05 <alise> then this spiral path is
17:12:12 <alise> 0.012012012012012012...
17:12:42 <alise> which, -- and let's see if i can get wolfram alpha to understand that --
17:12:44 <alise> should be something in decimal
17:12:46 <cpressey> i keep thinking this is the chaos game
17:12:46 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, it can also be extended to infinite fractal space.
17:13:39 -!- storkbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:14:05 <cpressey> rewriting storkbot's language to be even stupider
17:14:15 <alise> "sum n=2/3 to inf, (1*3^-(3n)) + (2*3^-(3n+1))"
17:14:16 <alise> mwahahaha
17:14:25 <alise> in decimal, it's
17:14:39 <alise> 0.1923076923....stuff
17:14:55 <alise> in binnyree:
17:15:05 <alise> 0.0011000100111011000100111011000100111011000100111011000100111011...
17:15:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Other things this method can be generalised to: getting a nice R^n → R bijection.
17:15:30 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: now, coordinate 1/pi!
17:15:36 <alise> 0.02212100...
17:15:37 <alise> so
17:15:42 <alise> up right right left right left up up
17:16:04 <alise> not seeing a particularly interesting coordinate there :D
17:16:13 <cpressey> wait
17:16:25 <cpressey> so which point is 0
17:16:31 <alise> cpressey: there is no such point
17:16:36 <cpressey> 0.00000000.... ?
17:16:36 <alise> all points are infinite paths
17:16:38 <alise> 0 = 0.000000000000000...
17:16:41 <alise> = the topmost point
17:16:43 <alise> i.e. the tip
17:16:47 <alise> topE :: Path
17:16:47 <alise> topE = U:topE
17:16:56 <cpressey> ok
17:17:21 <alise> not that hard to make a program to output this, if it's at a certain pixel size there's a point where you won't be able to follow the path further and get any more detail, since you're at the pixel level
17:17:28 <alise> output the point on a rendered triangle that is
17:17:38 <alise> could even have a zoom :)
17:17:43 <cpressey> so any finite path is *not* a point on the gasket
17:17:43 <alise> but, lazy
17:17:57 <cpressey> (i knew that)
17:18:20 <cpressey> but all the finite paths do refer to points on the plane
17:18:28 <cpressey> well, no
17:18:29 <cpressey> not points
17:18:34 <cpressey> triangular regions
17:18:39 <alise> cpressey: well, no, points
17:18:42 <alise> they're infinitely detailed
17:18:47 <alise> of course there ARE no points
17:18:48 <cpressey> alise: finite paths
17:18:50 <alise> but "in the limit", as they say
17:18:53 <cpressey> like U
17:18:54 <alise> cpressey: well yeah but we don't support them :)
17:18:59 <alise> because you can't distinguish 0.0 from 0.00 etc.
17:19:06 <alise> and besides, they're not terribly interesting
17:19:13 <alise> the infinite precision is what's interesting here
17:19:14 <cpressey> wait, yes you can: U and U,U
17:19:22 <alise> cpressey: but we're representing them as reals
17:19:25 <cpressey> they're well-defined, is all i was thinking
17:19:32 <alise> specifically, U->0, L->1, R->2, put 0. in front of them
17:19:35 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, coördinate pi!
17:19:36 <alise> treat as trinary
17:19:40 <alise> voila, everything in [0,1]
17:19:42 <alise> or is it (0,1)
17:19:43 <alise> i forget
17:19:46 <alise> well 0 is included
17:19:48 <alise> and 1 is two
17:19:50 <alise> *too
17:19:52 <alise> 0.222222222222...
17:19:57 <alise> leftmost is 1/2
17:20:11 <alise> so our coordinates are all in [0,1]
17:20:27 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: no, we precede it with 0. :P
17:20:34 <alise> because otherwise U:n would == n
17:20:35 <alise> because 0000n
17:20:38 <alise> = n
17:21:46 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, you can do things before the decimal point as well.
17:21:57 <alise> not really
17:22:01 <alise> and i don't want to :)
17:22:08 <alise> [0,1] is the bestest
17:22:14 <alise> it's the abestosed
17:22:19 <alise> *asbestosed
17:24:39 <Phantom_Hoover> I was also thinking about arithmetic operations earlier.
17:25:34 <Phantom_Hoover> It involved Hanoi moves in a subtle fashion.
17:27:35 <Phantom_Hoover> The problem is that I do not know what this subtle fashion was.
17:28:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Or, indeed, is.
17:29:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Perhaps I can use the quadtree analogy for the complexes to help...
17:30:07 <Phantom_Hoover> OK, view a complex as a point in [0,1]^2.
17:30:19 <alise> So...
17:30:28 <Phantom_Hoover> We divide [0,1]^2 into 4 quadrants.
17:31:19 <alise> oh wow, Insane Clown Posse are evangelical Christians
17:31:25 <alise> will the amusement ever end?
17:31:40 <Phantom_Hoover> A number in it can hence be represented as a string of quaternary digits, each selecting a subquadrant.
17:33:10 <Phantom_Hoover> So 0.5+0.5i is therefore 0.2.
17:33:26 <Phantom_Hoover> *0.20000....
17:34:01 <Phantom_Hoover> 0.5+0.5i = 1+i, hence 0.2+0.2 = 0.333333.... = 1.
17:34:48 <Phantom_Hoover> 0.1111111..... = 0.2, as well, which grates somewhat.
17:34:52 <alise> ...aww, the Guardian are inaccurate again.
17:34:57 <alise> They actually revealed that eight years ago.
17:35:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah, Ronson's interview.
17:35:13 <cpressey> Juggalos for Jesus
17:36:19 <Phantom_Hoover> I laughed at the bit where they're all looking at someone attacking "Miracles" and the article says "Violent J suddenly looks at me suspiciously. The woman in the video is bespectacled and nerdy. I am bespectacled and nerdy. Could I have the same motives?"
17:36:43 <cpressey> OMG
17:36:54 <cpressey> I too am bespectacled and nerdy
17:37:01 <cpressey> Also, I hate journalists
17:37:05 <Phantom_Hoover> "'I don't know how magnets work either,' I say, to relieve his suspicions."
17:37:56 <alise> :D
17:38:07 <alise> please tell me that's real
17:38:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Yep.
17:38:19 <alise> also this is the article but the relevant "song" came out in 2002 so, yeah: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/oct/09/insane-clown-posse-christians-god
17:38:20 <Phantom_Hoover> It was in this week's Weekend.
17:38:32 <Phantom_Hoover> That is the article.
17:39:22 <Phantom_Hoover> I love Ronson's style with the crazy, since he's completely nonconfrontational, and as such they just make themselves look like even bigger idiots.
17:39:24 <alise> "Right now, they're gaining the trust of the people who think unscientifically. Then, they're going to reveal how magnets work."
17:39:38 <alise> --reddit
17:41:32 <alise> [["A college professor took two days out of her fucking life to specifically attack us," says Violent J. "Oh yeah, she had it all figured out."]]
17:41:33 <alise> :D
17:41:49 <Phantom_Hoover> "Goths don't do anything in the UK. They're a harmless and essentially middle-class subculture." — Jon Ronson, elsewhere.
17:42:08 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Did you know: not a single critic likes Insane Clown Posse?
17:42:09 <alise> Like, seriously.
17:42:13 <Phantom_Hoover> I did.
17:42:13 <alise> Not a *single* critic.
17:42:21 <alise> There is nobody who is not a juggalo and likes them.
17:42:34 <alise> They can't even get a record label to tolerate them despite the gajillions of money they'd make! They have to self-release!
17:42:50 <alise> [[I figured most people would say, 'Wow, I didn't know Insane Clown Posse could be deep like that.']]
17:43:00 <alise> Fucking magnets, how deep is this?
17:43:07 <alise> ...not fucking magnets in that way.
17:43:16 <Phantom_Hoover> "I did think," I admit, "that fog constitutes quite a low threshold for miracles."
17:43:17 <Phantom_Hoover> "Fog?" Violent J says, surprised.
17:43:17 <Phantom_Hoover> "Well," I clarify, "I've lived around fog my whole life, so maybe I'm blasé."
17:43:35 <alise> :D
17:43:58 <alise> Brits, aren't they great?
17:44:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Suddenly he glances at me. The woman in the video is bespectacled and nerdy. I am bespectacled and nerdy. Might I have a similar motive?
17:44:03 <Phantom_Hoover> "I don't know how magnets work," I say, to put him at his ease.
17:44:08 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: you quoted that seconds ago
17:44:10 <Phantom_Hoover> The exact quote from that article.
17:44:18 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, no, that was from memory.
17:44:21 <alise> ah
17:44:21 <pikhq> Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't ICP specialise in sucking ass?
17:44:29 <alise> pikhq: Yes.
17:44:31 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, and fucking magnets.
17:44:34 <alise> They suck ass with a rota system.
17:44:40 <alise> To fit all the ass-sucking in.
17:45:01 <alise> "A giraffe is a fucking miracle. It has a dinosaur-like neck. It's yellow. Yeah, technically an elephant is not a miracle. Technically. They've been here for hundreds of years…"
17:45:04 <alise> this is my favourite thing ever
17:45:16 <alise> pikhq: ^^^
17:45:17 <Phantom_Hoover> I love that article so much.
17:45:25 <pikhq> They must also specialise in being stoned.
17:45:35 <pikhq> Cause that's the most high thing ever.
17:45:39 <alise> Well, they smoke in that article. Who knows *what* they're smoking.
17:45:50 <alise> pikhq: No, it's just the most ignorant-evangelical-Christian thing ever.
17:46:06 <alise> Apparently *99% of their albums pre-2002*, the ones in that series they did, carnival or whatever,
17:46:08 <Phantom_Hoover> "Well," Violent J says, "science is… we don't really… that's like…" He pauses. Then he waves his hands as if to say, "OK, an analogy": "If you're trying to fuck a girl, but her mom's home, fuck her mom! You understand? You want to fuck the girl, but her mom's home? Fuck the mom. See?"
17:46:09 <Phantom_Hoover> I look blankly at him. "You mean…"
17:46:09 <alise> was all a set-up
17:46:10 <alise> to get people
17:46:13 <alise> to believe in God
17:46:14 <pikhq> alise: High, ignorant-evangelical-Christian... Same results.
17:46:34 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: What.
17:46:36 <alise> Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
17:46:42 <alise> whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
17:46:47 <alise> ...what???
17:46:50 <alise> pikhq: what ^
17:46:53 <alise> please decode
17:46:53 <alise> what
17:47:02 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, it could conceivably be clever word play.
17:47:06 <Phantom_Hoover> s/conc/inconc/
17:47:15 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: So, instead of fucking Feynman, we should fuck Jesus.
17:47:27 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, no, other way round..
17:47:30 <alise> Jesus is Feynman's mom?
17:47:57 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Feynman is Jesus' mom?
17:47:59 <alise> jesus forgot to use immaculate contraception :|
17:48:09 <alise> FEYNMAN IS JESUS?
17:48:13 <alise> THIS
17:48:13 <alise> EXPLAINS
17:48:15 <alise> EVERYTHING
17:48:26 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, no, Feynman is the Virgin Mary!
17:48:33 <pikhq> Who is also Jesus.
17:48:34 <Phantom_Hoover> THIS EXPLAINS EVERYTHING!
17:48:34 <pikhq> And God.
17:48:46 <alise> The Father, the Feynman and the Holy Ghost.
17:49:00 <pikhq> :D
17:49:08 <alise> [[A fucking elephant is a miracle. If people can't see a fucking miracle in a fucking elephant, then life must suck for them, because an elephant is a fucking miracle. So is a giraffe.]]
17:49:10 <alise> this is just amazing
17:49:29 <alise> [[Violent J shakes his head sorrowfully. "Who looks at the stars at night and says, 'Oh, those are gaseous forms of plutonium'?" he says. "No! You look at the stars and you think, 'Those are beautiful.'"]]
17:49:34 <alise> Ah yes.
17:49:39 <alise> Gaseous forms of plutonium.
17:49:45 <alise> Pluto is made out of solid plutonium, obviously
17:50:00 <Phantom_Hoover> That boy grew up to be Eminem and, incensed, he's been publicly deriding ICP ever since in lyrics such as, "ICP are overrated and hated because of their false identities".
17:50:33 <alise> You know what, Eminem is actually better than Insane Clown Posse.
17:50:44 <Phantom_Hoover> C'est impossible!
17:50:55 <alise> No. Seriously. Think about it.
17:51:05 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:51:09 <Phantom_Hoover> [["So all those unpleasant characters in the songs," I ask, "like the narrator in I Stuck Her With My Wang, they're examples of people you shouldn't be?"
17:51:10 <Phantom_Hoover> "Huh?" Violent J says.
17:51:10 <Phantom_Hoover> "Well, it's very unpleasant," I say. "'I stuck her with my wang. She hit me in the balls. I grabbed her by her neck. And I bounced her off the walls. She said it was an accident and then apologised. But I still took my elbow and blackened both her eyes.' That's clearly a song about domestic violence. So your Christian message is... don't be like that man?"
17:51:10 <Phantom_Hoover> "Huh?" Violent J repeats, mystified.
17:51:12 <Phantom_Hoover> There's a silence.
17:51:14 <Phantom_Hoover> "I Stuck Her With My Wang is funny," Violent J says. "Jokes. Jokes, man. Jokes. Jokes. Jokes. It's just a ridiculous scenario. Silly stories, man. Silly stories. What's she doing kicking him in the balls? We find it funny. But we're saying, while we're close, while we're hanging, hey, man, do you ever ask yourself what's in your riddle box? If you had to turn the crank today?"]]
17:51:15 <alise> Or, if you really need convincing, listen to some ICP.
17:51:19 <Phantom_Hoover> I had to post that whole conversation.
17:51:24 <alise> I Stuck Her With My Wang :D
17:51:45 <alise> what a great song title
17:51:51 -!- Gregor has set topic: We are doing science SO HARD right now! | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
17:52:04 <alise> We are SO HARD doing science right now!
17:52:26 <Gregor> We are SO HARD doing science SO HARD right now!
17:52:34 <alise> [["Like Stonehenge and Easter Island," says Shaggy. "Nobody knows how that shit got there."]]
17:52:41 <nooga> hmhsouds like my gf
17:52:43 <alise> ALIENS
17:52:49 <nooga> just replace science with s...
17:53:13 <cpressey> fascinating
17:53:14 <nooga> hmh, sounds*
17:53:15 <alise> You know, I think if your girlfriend is getting hard you need to seriously ask her what genitalia she was born with.
17:53:27 <nooga> dumb
17:53:50 <Phantom_Hoover> [[Violent J turns to him and says, softly, "If we moved furniture for a living we'd have a bad back or bad knees. We think for a living. We try to create. We try to constantly think of cool ideas. And every once in a while there's a breakdown in the engine… I guess that's the price you pay."
17:53:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Shaggy nods quietly. "I get anxiety and shit a lot," he says. "And reading that stuff people write about us… It hurts."]]
17:53:59 <nooga> >:D
17:54:01 <Phantom_Hoover> I get ANXIETY AND SHIT!
17:54:22 <Phantom_Hoover> [[He shoots me a defiant look and says, "You know Miracles? Let me tell you, if Alanis Morissette had done that fucking song everyone would have called it fucking genius."]]
17:55:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Why does Jon Ronson look so... sinister?
17:55:37 <alise> He can't be sinister, he's British.
17:55:57 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/mr_ronson.jpg Just http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/mr_ronson.jpg
17:56:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Look at the EVIL in his eyes!
17:56:51 <Phantom_Hoover> But he's also hilarious, so I won't hold it against him.
17:58:10 <cpressey> alise: FUCKIN' ALIENS
17:58:23 <alise> cpressey: How do they work?
17:58:58 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2006/aug/05/familyandrelationships.lifeandhealth is more of the same kind of thing.
17:59:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Ronson meets nutballs, doesn't tell them they're nutballs, they look like even bigger nutballs.
18:00:41 <Phantom_Hoover> [[The children nod. And the exercise in telepathy begins.
18:00:41 <Phantom_Hoover> And it gives me no pleasure to say this, but blindfolded children immediately start walking into chairs, into pillars, into tables.]]
18:02:03 <cpressey> Right.
18:02:06 * Phantom_Hoover decides to watch the video from that ICP article.
18:03:03 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
18:04:22 <alise> pikhq: I may have just found a build of Windows Neptune.
18:04:55 <alise> pikhq: So, you know, if you want to see Windows Me reimplemented on top of Windows 2000...
18:05:45 <pikhq> alise: Wasn't Windows Neptune just the precursor to XP?
18:05:52 <alise> pikhq: Yes.
18:06:00 <alise> But:
18:06:00 <alise> In early 2000, Microsoft merged the team working on Neptune with that developing Windows Odyssey, the upgrade to Windows 2000 for business customers. The combined team worked on a new project codenamed Whistler,[2][3] which was released at the end of 2001 as Windows XP.[4][5] In the meantime, Microsoft released another home user DOS-based operating system called Windows Me.[3]
18:06:09 <alise> pikhq: tl;dr the teams merged.
18:06:13 <pikhq> Aaaah.
18:06:18 <cpressey> hahahaha
18:06:25 <alise> pikhq: Some screenshots of note:
18:06:26 <alise> http://www.digibarn.com/collections/screenshots/XP%20Neptune%20Build%205111/aneptunelogon.gif
18:06:29 <alise> http://nunney.me.uk/images/neptune/neptune_7.jpg
18:06:41 <alise> http://www.digibarn.com/collections/screenshots/XP%20Neptune%20Build%205111/zneptunebugreport.gif
18:07:23 <alise> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2534/4110046261_b2285e6e8b_o.png
18:07:33 <alise> pikhq: So, you know, if you want an ISO of that... :P
18:07:50 <pikhq> Meh.
18:08:16 <Phantom_Hoover> An observation that turned out to be prophetic. "From the very beginning of our music, God is in there," Violent J says, "in hidden messages."
18:08:16 <Phantom_Hoover> "Can you give me some examples?" I ask.
18:08:16 <Phantom_Hoover> There's a small silence. He looks torn between revealing them or maintaining the mystery. He shoots Shaggy a glance.
18:08:16 <Phantom_Hoover> "The Riddle Box," he finally says.
18:08:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Hey, what's up, motherfucker/This is Shaggs 2 Dope/Congratulating you on opening/the Riddlebox/It looks like you received your prize/The cost, what it cost, was your ASS,/bitchboy!/Hahahahah! — (The Riddle Box, 1995)
18:08:30 <pikhq> It uses so damned much memory to link Chrome.
18:09:25 <alise> "95-vista.iso", 7 gigs
18:09:26 <alise> do not want
18:09:46 <alise> Windows 95 FULL
18:09:46 <alise> WINDOWS 95 UPGRADE
18:09:46 <alise> WINDOWS 95 OSR2
18:09:53 <alise> if only it wasn't on a 2 gig file in .nrg format
18:10:50 <alise> pikhq: Okay: What about various versions of Chicago (95), Daytona (3.5), Georgia (ME), Memphis (98), Nashville (96!!!), Whistler (XP), Janus 3.1 *and* NT 5.0(!)?
18:11:18 <alise> Alas, though, no seeders :)
18:11:21 <pikhq> o.o
18:12:18 <alise> pikhq: http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/184957413/?tab=summary
18:13:25 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, what have you written for the Sierpiński numbers so far?
18:13:50 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: The structure and a few paths. It isn't difficult to plot a position to arbitrary accuracy, but I am lazy.
18:14:14 <alise> pikhq: BTW, did you like pre-2.0 Amarok?
18:14:19 <alise> Before they made it shitty.
18:14:28 <pikhq> It was rather nice.
18:14:32 <alise> pikhq: http://code.google.com/p/clementine-player/
18:14:36 <alise> pikhq: Amarok 1.4, for Qt 4.
18:14:40 <alise> Actively developed.
18:14:41 <pikhq> Tempting.
18:14:47 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, did you write the Real → Sierpiński injection?
18:14:48 <alise> Quod Libet is still probably better but *shrug*
18:14:58 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Umm, you can't really have reals in haskell.
18:15:01 <alise> I have:
18:15:02 <alise> data Section = U | L | R
18:15:02 <alise> data Path = [Section]
18:15:05 <alise> where Path is assumed to be finite
18:15:07 <alise> and that's close enough
18:15:15 <alise> to convert from a computable real to this:
18:15:19 <pikhq> s/in haskell/on a computer/
18:15:21 <alise> figure out the algorithm to produce the trinary digits
18:15:29 <alise> then 0 -> U
18:15:30 <alise> 1 -> L
18:15:31 <alise> 2 -> R
18:15:34 <alise> strip off the initial 0.
18:15:38 <alise> and you're done
18:15:44 <alise> so e.g.
18:15:45 <alise> foo :: Path
18:15:46 <alise> foo = U:L:R:foo
18:15:50 <alise> is 0.012012012012..._2
18:15:51 <alise> erm
18:15:51 <alise> _3
18:16:03 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, that's not the injection I had in mind.
18:16:17 <alise> So? It works perfectly, and is easy to construct paths with.
18:17:06 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, I meant getting the path that leads to a point along an edge of the gasket that corresponds to the number in question.
18:17:21 <alise> pikhq: You know what? I'm going to write my own fucking music manager. And I might add video support after that, too.
18:18:02 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Huh?
18:18:04 <pikhq> alise: \o/
18:18:04 <myndzi> |
18:18:05 <myndzi> |\
18:18:24 <cpressey> so mainly it's just converting to trinary
18:18:41 <alise> cpressey: what i have is a representation of anything in [0,1] in trinary, yep
18:18:43 <alise> well, anything computable
18:18:50 <alise> 0 = U:0
18:18:52 <alise> 1 = R:1
18:18:57 <cpressey> doing mathematics SO HARD right now
18:18:59 <alise> (proof that 0.333..._3 = 1 :P)
18:19:08 <alise> pikhq: Say. Is there a GTK binding for Tcl that exposes a Tk-like API?
18:19:21 <pikhq> I don't know, but I hope so.
18:19:30 <pikhq> Tk has a great API, after all.
18:19:37 <alise> pikhq: TO THE TCL-WIKI-O-SCOPE!
18:20:08 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, 0.333333...? Surely 0.22222.....?
18:20:14 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: YES YES SHUT UP
18:20:39 <Phantom_Hoover> And 0.22222222.... isn't equal to 1 here, it's not on the real line.
18:21:11 <alise> Umm. It is equal to 1.
18:21:21 <alise> pikhq: TCL WIKI DOWN HALP
18:21:33 <Phantom_Hoover> 0.111111.... = 1. 0.222222.... isn't.
18:21:45 <alise> ...
18:21:49 <alise> 0.111111111111... = 1/2.
18:21:57 <alise> Ask Wolfram Alpha if you don't believe me.
18:22:03 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, are you talking about normal trits on the reals?
18:22:14 <alise> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sum+n%3D1+to+inf,+3^-n
18:22:21 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: That's *what my path is*, except not the reals, [0,1].
18:22:30 <alise> It is, literally, every (computable) element of [0,1].
18:22:44 <alise> it is [] and not () because x = R:x is equal to 1.
18:22:48 <alise> and x = U:x is equal to 0.
18:22:52 <alise> and x = L:x is equal to 1/2.
18:23:23 <Phantom_Hoover> I would have 1 = L:1.
18:23:51 <Phantom_Hoover> And fix (R:) would probably be a complex, for reasons complex.
18:23:55 <alise> You ... really don't understand how trinary works.
18:23:56 <alise> At all.
18:24:01 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, yes I do.
18:24:05 <alise> No.
18:24:07 <alise> No you don't.
18:24:18 <Phantom_Hoover> I agree that 0.22... = 1.
18:25:10 <alise> pikhq: Do you think it's worth having my player be a client to a music daemon I write? (mpd and xmms2 are insufficient in many ways)
18:25:15 <alise> That would allow nice plugin-y things.
18:27:02 <pikhq> alise: If you can write a music daemon well, then yeah.
18:27:13 <alise> pikhq: I can sure as hell flail around trying to.
18:27:32 <pikhq> \o/
18:28:02 <alise> pikhq: Behold the pure liquid insanity getting libavcodec and libao to talk to each other requires:
18:28:02 <alise> http://nikolai.luthman.name/misc/queue.c
18:29:18 <pikhq> Mmmm, .name
18:29:29 <alise> pikhq: Grr, .name.
18:29:34 <Gregor> Anything that requires .name is already pretty insane :P
18:29:40 <alise> If you register first.last.name, that means you can never, ever acquire last.name.
18:29:43 <alise> In fact, nobody can!
18:29:46 <alise> YAY
18:29:51 <pikhq> alise: That's... Moronic.
18:29:52 <alise> Even if it expires.
18:30:17 <cpressey> also it implies that it is a website about a name
18:30:18 <pikhq> Anyways. I suspect that that is less insane than what it wraps. Sadly.
18:30:52 <pikhq> cpressey: TLDs don't work that way thank you.
18:31:15 <cpressey> pikhq: or located in a name
18:31:29 <pikhq> TLDs have no associated semantics.
18:31:43 <pikhq> Except what IANA declares.
18:31:45 <alise> pikhq: I know! How about I do everything else and you do the audio code.
18:32:04 <pikhq> alise: Whaaaaaa
18:32:08 <pikhq> And IANA declares that .name be for personal names.
18:32:11 <cpressey> pikhq: it's funnier if they do
18:32:59 <alise> pikhq: Yes
18:33:12 <pikhq> alise: But SOUND IS HARD
18:33:28 <pikhq> :P
18:33:34 <alise> pikhq: SO IS UI DESIGN AND I'M DOING THAT PART
18:33:47 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, I got an ugly function working that kind of shows what I meant earlier.
18:34:01 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Okay.
18:34:04 <alise> Show?
18:34:16 <Phantom_Hoover> toSierp x = let x' = x*2 in
18:34:16 <Phantom_Hoover> if x' < 1 then T:(toSierp x') else L:(toSierp (x'-1))
18:34:46 <Phantom_Hoover> It takes a real and generates the corresponding location on the top-left side of the gasket.
18:35:05 <alise> I see.
18:35:08 <alise> wat
18:35:13 <Phantom_Hoover> I know that the stuff to work out the binary digits is horrible, don't mention it.
18:35:13 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: you forgot U
18:35:35 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, I made it "T".
18:35:43 <alise> Oh.
18:35:44 <alise> Where's R?
18:35:50 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: that's silly, up/left/right are directions
18:35:53 <alise> top isn't a direction!
18:36:05 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, true, but I view them as names for each section.
18:36:10 -!- storkbot has joined.
18:36:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Rather than as directions in a path.
18:37:14 <alise> pikhq: Now for the all-important decision; what language I'll use!
18:38:04 <Phantom_Hoover> And the reason R doesn't feature is because the function is meant to produce a location on the top-left edge.
18:38:32 <Phantom_Hoover> So using the path system, it should approach that edge at each iteration.
18:38:46 <cpressey> storkbot: @r
18:38:47 <storkbot> cpressey: goto [@r]
18:38:52 <cpressey> storkbot: goto [@r]
18:38:52 <storkbot> cpressey: Out of stack space! Well no, but I stopped it anyway.
18:40:27 <cpressey> storkbot: [@r]
18:40:28 <storkbot> cpressey: Out of stack space! Well no, but I stopped it anyway.
18:42:49 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: so mainly it just needs to convert to trinary
18:43:04 <cpressey> format, if you like
18:43:13 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, no, it actually does binary conversion.
18:43:37 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: because you've decided *part* of the gasket is good enough for you.
18:43:42 <cpressey> ?
18:43:57 <cpressey> I really am lost here.
18:44:00 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, in essence.
18:44:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Remember how this started.
18:44:33 <alise> cpressey: i think it's all he needs for hanoi or something
18:44:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Trying to work out what set could come between R and C, which I concluded would be Sierp.
18:44:51 <cpressey> Oh yes, that.
18:45:05 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, Hanoi is just an incidental tool which aids perception.
18:45:08 <cpressey> If you are happy with it being 2/3 of Sierp, then by all means.
18:45:24 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, no, it's equivalent to how R lies in C.
18:46:36 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: no, you are not happy? or no, it is not Sierp? or no, it is Sierp, but modified to be equivalent to how R lies in C, for a better sense of betweenness?
18:46:36 <Phantom_Hoover> You can do an R → Sierp bijection just as easily.
18:47:51 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:47:56 <Phantom_Hoover> It is a subset of Sierp that behaves precisely the same as the real interval [0,1]
18:48:57 <cpressey> ok
18:50:54 <cpressey> storkbot: @r=[~storkbot/BRA]@r[~storkbot/KET]
18:50:55 <storkbot> cpressey: [@r]
18:50:59 <cpressey> storkbot: @r
18:50:59 <storkbot> cpressey: [@r]
18:51:06 <cpressey> storkbot: [@r]
18:51:07 <storkbot> cpressey: ?SYNTAX ERROR
18:51:18 <cpressey> storkbot: print [@r]
18:51:18 <storkbot> cpressey: [@r]
18:51:31 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, I vaguely hope that I can use it to get a sane definition of addition, but I'm not very confident.
18:51:31 <cpressey> so i do need the goto
18:52:39 <alise> pikhq: I need suggestions for my music software kthx
18:52:48 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: I am hopeful.
18:53:04 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, there is no hop!
18:53:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Henry Freeman must give me hop!
18:57:01 <alise> proto-plan: cat all the half-life full-life consequences video chapters together, submit to festival
18:57:23 <Phantom_Hoover> Which festival?
18:57:45 <alise> pick one
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18:58:38 <Phantom_Hoover> The fringe!
18:59:25 <Phantom_Hoover> *Fringe
18:59:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Then I'll walk down the Royal Mile dressed as John Freeman and hand out leaflets to all of those irritating gits who hand out leaflets!
19:00:35 <alise> i was thinking cannes
19:01:18 <cpressey> Henry who?
19:01:33 <cpressey> Don't answer that.
19:03:14 <alise> cpressey: The main character of Halflife Fullife Consequences.
19:03:23 <alise> Sorry, *Halflife: Fullife Consequences
19:03:42 <alise> He lives up to his family name and faces FULL LIFE CONSEQUENCES.
19:03:53 <alise> A literary masterpiece.
19:03:55 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:04:12 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, no, John Freeman is the main character.
19:04:16 <alise> oh right
19:04:18 <alise> henry is his brother
19:04:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Henry Freeman is his estranged son
19:04:27 <Phantom_Hoover> No, Gordon Freeman is his brother.
19:04:30 <alise> er right
19:04:31 <Gregor> It truly is a literary masterpiece though.
19:04:33 <alise> PLOT SO COMPLEX
19:04:43 <Phantom_Hoover> But he's tragically killed by Final Boss.
19:04:47 <alise> Gregor: However, the movie adaption is one of the few that is better than the source material.
19:04:55 <Gregor> Who hates humens because he's from science and outer space.
19:04:57 <alise> Especially Free Man.
19:04:59 <alise> It is a completely new story.
19:05:09 <alise> The emotion in that... what, five minute fight scene.
19:05:12 <alise> It is immense.
19:05:29 * Phantom_Hoover will watch it all again.
19:05:41 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHxyZaZlaOs
19:05:41 <alise> What we learn is that the only acceptable kind of science is the kind that makes guns
19:05:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Part 1!
19:06:01 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I totally think we should chop the title sequences off them all and put them into one video.
19:06:07 <alise> Ready for cinematic release!
19:06:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Aliens and monsters are attacking my place!
19:07:01 <alise> cpressey is sighing at our IMMATURITY right now :|
19:07:10 <alise> Man, I love how realistically that train falls.
19:07:17 <alise> It just sort of wriggles down off the bridge.
19:07:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Watch. From. The. Beginning.
19:07:39 <alise> I've already watched it all.
19:07:44 <alise> I'm just re-watching Free Man.
19:07:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Why not?
19:07:46 <alise> Because it's the best part.
19:09:09 <Phantom_Hoover> The pants are dead!
19:09:20 <alise> I am still not sure what that Portal scene is all about.
19:09:30 <cheater00> alise: you have not answered my question
19:09:34 <alise> Or why making that shot flung John around the facility.
19:09:43 <alise> Or why he falls upwards.
19:10:15 <alise> "A rocket hit John Freeman but he got up"
19:12:36 <Phantom_Hoover> I love the way John Freeman Googles to find out how to kill Next Boss..
19:15:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Gordon is zombie goast! The emotional torment!
19:16:31 <alise> Do we ever find out what Tobe has done?
19:16:50 <Phantom_Hoover> It's a debated point.
19:19:35 <Phantom_Hoover> What was John Freeman doing between the end of What has tobe done and the end of Hero Beggining?
19:20:27 <Gregor> Actually, I'm disappointed that the narrator didn't pronounce "Tobe" in "What has Tobe Done" as the name Tobe (short for Tobias)
19:20:30 <cpressey> So
19:20:49 <cpressey> oh n/m
19:21:05 <alise> Gregor: me too
19:21:14 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, we'll get back to science when we have faced FULL LIFE CONSEQUENCES
19:21:14 <alise> I was like "YES THIS IS GOING TO BE HIL- darn"
19:21:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Mom has dead!
19:26:57 <cpressey> um
19:27:56 <cpressey> So, culture
19:27:58 <cpressey> yeah.
19:28:00 <alise> cpressey is TOO OLD FOR THIS
19:28:10 <cpressey> probably.
19:28:13 <cpressey> it is funny, but
19:28:23 <cpressey> it is terribly, terribly stupid.
19:28:28 <alise> Yes.
19:28:29 <alise> Yes it is.
19:28:51 <alise> Any questions?
19:29:00 <cpressey> No. No questions.
19:29:03 <cpressey> CARY ON
19:29:10 <alise> What has Cary done?
19:35:50 <Phantom_Hoover> I love the statue of John Freeman at the end.
19:36:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Where did they steal that music from?
19:38:59 <cpressey> I have one question actually
19:39:11 <cpressey> No, I don't
19:41:15 <cpressey> No, I do.
19:41:38 <cpressey> The fanfiction came first and is unaffiliated with the video production, correct?
19:41:57 <Gregor> Yes
19:41:58 <cpressey> And the fanfiction was not, in fact, written in jest.
19:42:05 <Gregor> It was, in fact, written in jest.
19:42:08 <Gregor> Although nobody knew that at the time.
19:42:10 <cpressey> It was?
19:42:12 <Gregor> (Except the writer)
19:42:25 <cpressey> Ok
19:42:25 <Gregor> The writer turns out to be a super-brilliant goon.
19:47:18 -!- sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:47:29 <Gregor> "Agnoistrology – the method by which one may make predictions, give advice, and reveal the dynamics of human relationships without actually knowing anything (very similar to astrology but devoid of any pretense)."
19:50:30 <alise> Gregor: PLAY VAGRANT
19:50:38 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, where's the code?
19:50:52 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: ~/Code/vagrant/vagrant.py
19:50:59 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: do you want the latest version? :P
19:51:03 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, yes.
19:51:13 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Do you plan to modify it -- i.e. should I bother pasting debug.py too?
19:51:29 <Phantom_Hoover> No.
19:51:54 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: http://pastie.org/1209960.txt?key=vditdcajejmoyploowa
19:52:04 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Note: This code is short enough that it is, in fact, physically impossible for it to be a game.
19:52:12 <alise> You are recommended to suspend disbelief to induce the notion that you are playing a game.
19:52:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Why?
19:52:26 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Because look at it!
19:52:30 <alise> Even *I'm* not sure where the game logic went.
19:52:40 <alise> Gotta be somewhere, right?
19:53:03 <Gregor> 'twould be nice if I had any clue what any of this is :P
19:53:10 <alise> Gregor: It's a roguelike. And it's IMPOSSIBLY SHORT
19:53:20 <Gregor> I mean the characters.
19:53:25 <alise> Gregor: % is food
19:53:27 <alise> ! is potion
19:53:30 <alise> Q is enemy that isn't coded yet
19:53:31 <alise> # is wall
19:53:33 <alise> $ is money
19:53:35 <Gregor> Oh, I should stop eating poison.
19:53:42 <alise> S: is satiation in the status bar
19:53:45 <alise> Gregor: You can't help it.
19:53:48 <alise> Gregor: You will now hallucinate for N turns.
19:54:00 <alise> Gregor: You may want to press a key like space to wait them out, if your S: satiation is high enough.
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19:54:09 <alise> yubn work for diagonal movement, btw.
19:54:24 <alise> Controls:
19:54:27 <alise> hjkl, yuvn - move
19:54:36 <Gregor> Oh, I had just been using hjkl :P
19:54:40 <alise> q - quaff potion (how much hp you have to move to hp meter is in parens after HP, helps hallucination a bit)
19:54:55 <alise> enter - dismiss message; anything dismisses message if your cursor moves after one, i.e. a blocking message
19:55:05 <alise> but enter dismisses messages that don't block, so you can see the status-line
19:55:12 <alise> this also re-hallucinates, which is a bug but too hard to fix
19:55:16 <alise> (lets you see what everything is if you hold it down)
19:55:20 <alise> any other key skips a turn
19:55:37 <Gregor> 'snot much of a dungeon :P
19:55:40 <alise> S goes to zero, you lose 25 per turn
19:55:48 <alise> 25 hp that is
19:55:56 <alise> you can survive this with a bunch of potions beforehand and close food
19:56:05 <alise> Gregor: Right now, the recommended playstyle is to rack up as much cash as you can.
19:56:10 <alise> Also, who says it's a dungeon?
19:56:15 <alise> It's ~PROCEDURALLY GENERATED~
19:56:38 <Gregor> Yeah, but your mom is procedurally generated.
19:56:40 <alise> Gregor: And when it comes down to it, I mean, man, this thing is 1421 fuckin' bytes of code.
19:56:50 <alise> (not counting ending newline, which does nothing)
19:57:08 <alise> Gregor: Oh, and hallucinating is SWEET.
19:57:14 <Gregor> It's very pretty code too.
19:57:23 <alise> Yes. You are obviously serious.
19:57:31 <alise> X-=(X-x)/17;Y-=(Y-y)/5
19:57:34 <alise> This used to be four lines of if statements.
19:57:40 <alise> It is the scrolling code.
19:59:00 <alise> Gregor: Oh man.
19:59:03 <alise> if U:U%=r(85,115)
19:59:11 <alise> I just realised the HORRIBLE POSSIBILITIES that has.
19:59:24 <Gregor> I don't even know wtf that means :P
19:59:31 <alise> Gregor: Hallucination count; %= is modulo.
19:59:35 <alise> r is random integer between.
19:59:38 <Gregor> Ah
19:59:39 <Gregor> Got it
19:59:39 <alise> So that's what times hallucination out.
19:59:44 <alise> Say it's 115 for ages, because of wtf. And you get to 115, right, and it goes to modulo it
19:59:48 <alise> And it ends up 85
19:59:54 <alise> 115 mod 85 = 30
19:59:59 <alise> So you START OVER FROM ALMOST SCRATCH
20:00:01 <alise> (+30 turns)
20:00:04 <alise> And other evil like that
20:00:09 <alise> That must be why hallu can last SO FRIKKIN' LONG
20:01:54 <alise> if U>r(85,115):U=0;Q('You feel a lot better now.')
20:01:57 <alise> Problem solved.
20:02:05 <alise> Now only 1417 bytes!
20:02:21 <alise> Gregor: BTW, good strategy: Get a shitload of potions, q them all up.
20:02:31 <alise> Then if you run out of foods, just scramble for the nearest foods.
20:03:01 <alise> Also, you can't get HP or S above 300, so don't try.
20:03:49 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, incidentally, I've got the first bit of the R → Sierp injection you were thinking of.
20:03:57 <alise> You were thinking of, you mean.
20:04:14 <Phantom_Hoover> No, your one was the trinary one.
20:04:22 <alise> HP:308 HOW
20:04:37 <alise> OHHHH
20:04:41 <alise> Wait what?
20:06:04 <alise> Gregor: Interesting detail: Potions can only help with hallucination if you have less than 300 HP :P
20:06:05 <Phantom_Hoover> biToSierp :: (Fractional a, Ord a) => a -> FracPart
20:06:05 <Phantom_Hoover> biToSierp x = let x' = x*3 in
20:06:05 <Phantom_Hoover> if x' < 1 then T:(biToSierp x') else if x' >= 1 && x' < 2 then L:(biToSierp (x'-1)) else R:(biToSierp (x'-2))
20:06:07 <alise> Well, now, at least.
20:06:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Erm, ignore the type signature.
20:07:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Note the ugliness of the trinariser!
20:07:20 <alise> you do realise you need infinite input numbers for that?
20:08:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Infinite input numbers?
20:08:07 <alise> Gregor: SO WHADDYA THINK OF MY GAME
20:08:19 <Gregor> alise: It, like you, is made of fail.
20:08:26 <Gregor> OHHHH BURN
20:08:34 * Phantom_Hoover → food
20:09:00 <alise> Gregor: I'd like to see you do better in the same number of bytes P:P
20:09:01 <alise> *:P
20:09:35 <Gregor> Let's see you do an MMO roguelike in no more than double the number of bytes!
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20:10:08 -!- tombom has quit (Changing host).
20:10:08 -!- tombom has joined.
20:11:30 <alise> Gregor: MMO ROGUELIKES DON'T WORK DAMMIT
20:11:43 <alise> Unless anyone who makes a turn has to wait for EVERYONE ELSE IN THE UNIVERSE to make a turn.
20:11:45 <Gregor> Neither does your mom, and yet here we are.
20:14:22 <alise> pikhq: POLYGLOT TCL STARPACK
20:14:42 <alise> It is a valid PE/Windows, ELF/Linux, and Mach-O/OS X executable file.
20:19:40 <pikhq> alise: o.O
20:19:47 <alise> pikhq: Or rather: it ought to be
20:20:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Back.
20:20:20 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, what were you saying about infinite numbers?
20:20:41 <alise> as in
20:20:50 <alise> if you only have paths that are like
20:20:51 <alise> 0.123
20:20:54 <alise> then they all implicitly end with zeroes
20:20:59 <alise> meaning paths have to end in infinite ups
20:21:05 <alise> so you actually need a custom data structure to represent this
20:21:06 <alise> dfgk
20:21:33 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, why do you need a custom data structure?
20:21:40 <alise> ff
20:21:43 <alise> figure it out yourself
20:21:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Normal lazy lists work fine for the values I've tried.
20:24:03 <Phantom_Hoover> The issue is no different to any other decimal representation, really.
20:27:19 <alise> you had realfrac stuff
20:27:21 <alise> which is not sufficient
20:28:06 <Phantom_Hoover> For what?
20:28:08 <cheater00> alise
20:28:20 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: for paths
20:28:20 <cheater00> i will give you $1000000000000000000000000000000 for the latest version of vagrant
20:28:48 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, so should I use Rationals?
20:29:08 <Ilari> Same executable that is valid for all three? Must be quite creative...
20:29:12 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: no, you should use lists of a type with three elements
20:29:16 <alise> Ilari: it doesn't exist, it just should :)
20:29:21 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, ...
20:29:24 <alise> we should have some sort of standardised multi-executable format
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20:29:41 <Phantom_Hoover> That's *exactly how I'm representing members of Sierp*.
20:31:17 <Phantom_Hoover> The realfrac stuff is just how I'm doing the tentative bijective things.
20:32:03 <alise> pikhq: Lame, there's no tclkit package in Ubuntu.
20:32:53 <cheater00> alise: stop being lame
20:35:12 <pikhq> alise: There wouldn't be.
20:35:34 <alise> pikhq: Why not.
20:35:48 <pikhq> ... It's a single file build of Tcl?
20:36:56 <alise> pikhq: And? :P
20:37:03 <alise> pikhq: Starkits use it.
20:38:00 <pikhq> ... Okay, good point.
20:43:51 <alise> pikhq: I AM TRYING TO TRY WIKIT HERE
20:43:55 <alise> HOW DO IT?
20:44:36 <pikhq> WIKIT THE WIDGET
20:45:45 <alise> pikhq: what
20:45:53 <pikhq> ... I got nothing.
20:48:42 <alise> pikhq: So I have to compile TclKit?
20:48:44 <alise> Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet
20:48:55 <pikhq> alise: Or just download it.
20:49:09 <alise> pikhq: oh; got a link?
20:49:32 <pikhq> http://www.equi4.com/tclkit/download.html
20:49:39 <alise> pikhq: [Information on this page needs refreshed, given that during 2007 the entire engine was replaced with wubwikit. ]
20:49:44 <alise> :|
20:50:50 <pikhq> Alternately http://www.equi4.com/wikis/equi4/218
20:51:39 <alise> $ wget http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/tars/Makefile
20:51:39 <alise> $ make
20:51:42 <alise> Pfft, way too difficult
20:51:47 <alise> make -f <(curl http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/tars/Makefile)
20:51:48 <alise> AM I RIGHT
20:52:31 <alise> ehird@dinky:~/tclkit$ make -f <(curl http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/tars/Makefile)
20:52:35 <alise> This *actually works*.
20:52:40 <alise> pikhq: ONE STEP COMPILE
20:54:12 <alise> pikhq: ADMIRE IT
20:54:29 <pikhq> alise: Nice.
20:54:47 <alise> The only way it could possibly be better is if it created its own temporary directory and then moved the final resulting binary to the current directory, meaning you would not have to create a new directory first to hold the temporary files.
20:55:21 <alise> g++ -o kit kitInit.o pwb.o rec... FAILED:
20:55:21 <alise> Joy
20:59:43 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, do you have any thoughts on adding Sierps?
21:00:03 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Nope.
21:00:33 <Phantom_Hoover> I think it could be done by doing something carry-esque, but I'm not sure.
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21:02:16 <alise> pikhq: How does one start Wikit's web server?
21:02:28 <Phantom_Hoover> The problem with visualising it is that there are points which can be reached by concatenation that aren't part of the gasket itself.
21:02:30 <alise> Or is it already running?
21:02:32 <alise> If so, where?
21:04:14 <pikhq> I dunno.
21:05:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Logically, TL + TL = L, for one thing.
21:06:05 <alise> pikhq: BTW, my music server -- I'm wondering what kind of API to expose for clients to connect to.
21:06:13 <Phantom_Hoover> And since I think it should be section-symmetric, TR + TR = £.
21:06:15 <Phantom_Hoover> *R
21:06:16 <alise> pikhq: I'm thinkin' "just use proper, decent, simple RESTful HTTP".
21:06:24 <alise> Because why bother inventing a socket protocol
21:06:27 <alise> *protocol?
21:06:41 <cpressey> SOAP YOU MUST USE SOAP
21:06:53 <alise> SOAP YOURSELF FOREVER
21:07:26 <Gregor> Hot
21:07:37 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: Drat. I thought pound was new and exciting
21:07:52 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, it can be some cool extension to L.
21:08:46 <cpressey> alise: in case it was not obvious, SOAP is aaaaawful.
21:08:57 <alise> cpressey: I am well aware :)
21:09:03 <cpressey> good
21:09:22 <alise> cpressey: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/xml/soap/simple
21:10:00 <cpressey> classic
21:10:12 <alise> you can't possibly have read it all in that time!
21:10:13 <alise> :P)
21:10:14 <alise> *:P
21:10:47 <cpressey> >_<
21:10:51 <cpressey> I have read it before.
21:10:58 <alise> Oh. Right :P
21:11:57 <cpressey> what IS new to me is that ESR has an entire HARMFUL domain
21:12:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, with the quaternary C thing, .01 + .01 = .111....
21:12:15 <cpressey> no wait
21:12:16 <Phantom_Hoover> No, wait.
21:12:17 <cpressey> that would be catb
21:12:19 <alise> cpressey: that's not esr
21:12:19 <cpressey> this is cat-v
21:12:24 <alise> cat-v is uriel
21:12:25 <Phantom_Hoover> .01
21:12:26 <cpressey> subtle trickery!
21:12:34 <alise> angry libertarian plan-9 blowhard -- but fuzzy inside, supposedly
21:12:47 <Phantom_Hoover> .01+.01=.1
21:12:56 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: what's .01+0.2
21:13:06 <alise> or is there no 2
21:14:01 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, I decree it to be .03
21:14:11 <alise> i thought this was trinary
21:14:15 <alise> oh, quaternary
21:14:16 <Phantom_Hoover> That took me about 30 seconds of thinking.
21:14:23 <alise> what's .01+.03
21:15:34 <Phantom_Hoover> .13
21:15:36 <Phantom_Hoover> I think.
21:15:44 <alise> .01+.13
21:15:49 <Phantom_Hoover> .12, actually.
21:15:58 <alise> this does not look like addition to me
21:16:09 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, it's not conventional addition
21:16:28 <Phantom_Hoover> It is for binary R, but not for Sierp and C.
21:16:31 <alise> :P
21:17:16 <alise> pikhq: You -- design a decent query language.
21:19:26 <alise> pikhq: I am now running the tclkit server. Yay.
21:26:05 <alise> cpressey: why is lua naff?
21:27:10 <pikhq> Hah. To celebrate the 65th anniversary of the founding of the Worker's Party of Korea, North Korea is now on the Internet.
21:27:52 <cpressey> alise: what? is it?
21:27:56 <Gregor> pikhq: ...?
21:27:57 <alise> pikhq: Like, they have internet access??
21:27:58 <alise> Or a website?
21:28:02 <alise> They've always had a website.
21:28:04 <alise> cpressey: Err, yes?
21:28:05 <pikhq> alise: Internet access.
21:28:09 <alise> pikhq: Hah.
21:28:14 <alise> pikhq: Restricted to three people?
21:28:18 <pikhq> No.
21:28:21 <alise> wut
21:28:24 <alise> firewalled?
21:28:29 <Gregor> Restricted to three WEB SITES.
21:28:29 <pikhq> Probably.
21:28:35 <alise> cpressey: One-based array indexing, verbose control structures, metatable insanity, and lack of non-float numbers (iirc)
21:28:41 <pikhq> They're also running a TLD.
21:28:45 <pikhq> .kp
21:28:47 <alise> library is hopeless
21:28:53 <cpressey> alise: :(
21:29:04 <alise> WANT TO REGISTER .KP NOW
21:29:06 <alise> that is
21:29:09 <alise> a .kp domain
21:29:20 <pikhq> (it's been up for 3 years, but until now it was administered outside of North Korea, and only hosted sites outside of North Korea)
21:29:34 <alise> "Since Sept. 2010 the .kp ccTLD infrastructure is unreachable."
21:30:00 <pikhq> Today, they brought it up domestically.
21:30:04 <pikhq> Like, just now.
21:30:10 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_North_Korea
21:30:25 <pikhq> It's called "breaking news".
21:30:28 <alise> "Satellite Internet coverage from BGAN and Thuraya is available, offering download speeds up to 492 kbit/s and upload speeds of 400 kbit/s; however it would be extremely difficult to smuggle a satellite terminal into the country.[1] The one Internet cafe in Pyongyang uses a satellite Internet connection, as do some of the more upmarket hotels."
21:30:41 <alise> LOL:
21:30:45 <alise> [[In 2002, North Koreans, in collaboration with a South Korean company, started a gambling site targeting South Korean customers (online gambling being illegal in South Korea), but the site has since been closed down.[2]]]
21:31:07 <Gregor> lol
21:31:34 <pikhq> ... *There is no censorship on it*.
21:31:42 <cpressey> i don't mind the 1-based indexing, the control structures are at least proper words (not "elif" or "fi"), ignore metatables, and floats-only hurts very few programs and enables simplicity and smallness in implementation
21:33:28 <alise> pikhq: wat.
21:33:43 <alise> cpressey: okay, show me an http server in lua
21:35:05 <alise> pikhq: Have you ever played Canabalt?
21:35:59 <cpressey> alise: http://keplerproject.github.com/xavante/ is the "usual" one. I last saw it when it was 1.x.. I don't know if they've improved it since then, or if it has gotten bad.
21:36:14 <alise> cpressey: I mean, a simple one.
21:36:16 <cheater00> http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/oct/09/insane-clown-posse-christians-god
21:36:20 <cheater00> alise is a juggalo.
21:36:40 <alise> pikhq: http://adamatomic.com/canabalt/
21:37:32 <pikhq> They went ahead and hooked their domestic intranet to the Internet.
21:37:40 <cpressey> alise: http://www.steve.org.uk/Software/lua-httpd/src/httpd.lua ? half of it is comments
21:37:44 <pikhq> Honest-to-god.
21:37:59 <pikhq> I give North Korea another year of existence.
21:38:02 <alise> pikhq: CANABALT
21:38:15 <alise> cpressey: lawl "mode: C++"
21:38:22 <alise> -- A simple HTTP server written in Lua, using the socket primitives
21:38:22 <alise> -- in 'libhttpd.so'.
21:38:49 <alise> cpressey: So, tell me why Lua is better than Io. :P
21:39:13 <cpressey> alise: Better than?
21:39:15 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, can you write a complex quaternisation function? I cannot muster the strength.
21:39:15 <cpressey> Ha.
21:39:22 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: nothx
21:39:24 <alise> cpressey: what's that mean
21:41:38 <cpressey> it means, why should i spend my time defending Lua from your random criticisms and comparisons with other languages
21:43:32 <alise> cpressey: because I'm interested to know if Lua actually has any merit?
21:44:23 <cpressey> alise: merit is subjective
21:44:26 <cpressey> some people like it
21:44:34 <cpressey> some people have used it and continue to do so
21:45:25 <cpressey> if you don't think it has any merit, ... that's your perogative
21:47:25 <alise> cpressey: sheesh, i'm just asking for reasons why you like it as opposed to other things
21:47:32 <alise> it's not the inquisition
21:50:31 <cpressey> alise: Right now, I like it because it's not Python.
21:50:48 <Gregor> <cpressey> Same reason I like COBOL.
21:50:58 <alise> cpressey: Lawl
21:51:27 <alise> I have a feeling I'd dislike Lua for the same reasons I dislike Io, but amplified.
21:51:45 <Gregor> So, you'd like Lua SO LOUD right now.
21:51:48 <Gregor> Erm
21:51:49 <Gregor> dislike
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21:53:55 <alise> Gregor: That meme is going to get SO OLD right now.
21:57:35 <alise> pikhq: Please convince me not to make a language. Oh god.
22:02:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:02:23 -!- augur has joined.
22:04:37 -!- flippo has quit (Quit: Reality reasserts itself sooner or later.).
22:07:08 <alise> coffeescript weirds me out
22:07:15 <alise> it's like someone took js and made it too sweet
22:07:19 <alise> and now it's bad if you're code-diabetic
22:08:03 <Gregor> ...
22:09:35 <alise> code diabetic is so a thing, Gregor
22:10:17 <pikhq> alise: You shouldn't make a language because you will then continue to make your own everything.
22:10:31 <pikhq> alise: And you won't get any of it done.
22:10:33 <alise> pikhq: Dude, I'll continue to do that anyway.
22:10:46 <alise> pikhq: Okay, then what language do I use? :P
22:10:59 <Gregor> Yeah, you'll become me.
22:11:02 <Gregor> That's totally a bad idea.
22:11:45 <pikhq> alise: Cheese.
22:11:55 <alise> pikhq: What.
22:11:57 <Gregor> alise: LOLCode
22:12:21 <alise> "cheese programming language"; third result is cpressey
22:12:26 <alise> http://catseye.tc/projects/hunter/doc/website_hunter.html
22:12:27 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, what makes a language sweet?
22:12:35 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Who knows?
22:13:02 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, make Epigram better?
22:13:11 <alise> "This is a demonstration of how the Lua 5.0.2 interpreter can be embedded in a KLD (loadable kernel module for FreeBSD.) It isn't very useful by itself (and somewhat dangerous too, since an infinite loop in the Lua code would hang the machine,) but it shows off Lua's minimalism."
22:13:12 <alise> dear god.
22:13:22 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: epigram is not useful for actual programming in the next thirty years :P
22:13:34 <Gregor> That doesn't show off Lua's minimalism at all ...
22:13:52 <Gregor> There's very little limit to what you can put in a loadable module ...
22:13:59 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, why?
22:14:12 <alise> cpressey: what sucks about dragonfly again?
22:14:22 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: fff there is not a one-irc-message reply to that at all
22:14:30 <alise> Gregor: it's because the code is small methinks
22:14:44 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, how many IRC messages would it take?
22:14:53 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: seventy
22:15:17 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, sum up?
22:15:21 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: can't
22:15:27 <Phantom_Hoover> At least as to why it can't be programmed in?
22:16:14 <alise> it can be
22:16:18 <alise> you just don't want to, for actual projects
22:16:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Whyyyyyyy?
22:17:25 <cpressey> alise: the installer
22:17:31 <alise> cpressey: i thought you wrote that
22:17:36 <cpressey> :D
22:17:48 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, why can't you write actual projects in Epigram?
22:18:01 <cpressey> how many dependent-typed languages are practicable at present, anyway?
22:18:02 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Stop asking me the same question fifty goddamn times over!
22:18:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Is it Epigram itself, or dependently-typed languages in general?
22:18:12 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, 0. Maybe 1.
22:18:22 <alise> The latter, unless someone defies all my expectations in the future.
22:18:24 <alise> And I never said forever.
22:18:25 <alise> I said now.
22:18:32 <cpressey> Epigram(no), Adga(maybe) ?
22:18:39 <cpressey> *Agda
22:18:46 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, Coq was the maybe, actually.
22:19:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Actual software has been written in extracted Coq. The same cannot be said for Agda.
22:19:09 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: I always thought Coq was more of a prover than a language. (I know, I know)
22:19:19 <alise> agda is more of a masturbation than a language
22:19:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, it's a perfectly nice experimental dependently-typed language (at least in theory).
22:20:03 <alise> Saving to: `dfly-x86_64-2.6.3_REL.iso.bz2'
22:20:04 <alise> 4% [> ] 10,343,094 128K/s eta 30m 4s
22:20:10 <alise> so slow. may claw own eyes out.
22:20:26 <alise> cpressey: rate feasibility of this idea: take dragonfly kernel, libc, basic userland, build distro on top
22:20:27 <cpressey> alise: PREPARE TO BE AWESOMED or something. pretty sure there's a torrent somewhere actuallyu
22:20:28 <Phantom_Hoover> But between the idiots who think that it can actually be used to prove things and the awful abuse of Unicode and the instability it's not worked very well.
22:20:43 <alise> wonder if i want release or snapshot!
22:21:01 <cpressey> alise: you... want NetBSD
22:21:03 <cpressey> no
22:21:09 <cpressey> i dinna say that
22:21:15 <alise> cpressey: i tried netbsd
22:21:21 <cpressey> you want release
22:21:23 <alise> i don't believe a single program there was newer than five years old, and X didn't work.
22:21:28 <alise> :)
22:21:39 <cpressey> because you have no idea the hacking they do in the kernel
22:22:14 <cpressey> a snapshot would probably destroy your network card *from within your vm instance*
22:22:24 <alise> :D
22:22:38 <Phantom_Hoover> "_≟_ : Decidable {A = Char} _≡_" ← This is in Agda's definition for *Char*.
22:22:39 <alise> cpressey: would melding NetBSD's kernel with dragonfly's basic userland be possible?
22:22:54 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: well uh, that's reasonable
22:23:01 <alise> if you ignore the unicode, it's just
22:23:14 <alise> is_eq : Decidable Char equal
22:23:15 <alise> i.e.
22:23:19 <alise> well, you know the rest
22:23:20 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, since when was equals-with-hook an oft-used symbol.
22:23:28 <alise> cpressey: nah, i can't find a torrent
22:23:30 <cpressey> alise: well, no, because the only places where df's userland differs significant from the others, iirc, is where it has df-specific syscalls etc
22:23:31 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: that's equals with ?
22:23:35 <Phantom_Hoover> And my point is that the Unicode is pointlessly obfuscatory.
22:23:40 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, it is.
22:23:44 <alise> cpressey: yeah but they have newer shit, most likely :)
22:23:53 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: you'd hate mathematical notation
22:23:55 <alise> if you think *that's* bad
22:24:07 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, I don't, really.
22:24:19 <Phantom_Hoover> There are worse ones, though
22:25:00 <alise> cpressey: i just don't want to use the linux kernel :)
22:27:20 <Gregor> MINIX!
22:28:07 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:28:34 <alise> I swear that package management, configuration management and service management are all the same thing.
22:29:13 -!- wareya has joined.
22:29:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Do people actually write proofs of things in Agda?
22:29:31 <alise> No.
22:29:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Even Agdaers?
22:29:56 <alise> No.
22:30:04 <alise> Well --
22:30:05 <alise> yes.
22:30:09 <alise> But only as part of writing Agda libraries and the like.
22:30:46 <Phantom_Hoover> What was that theorem with the completely crazy name?
22:30:54 <alise> Many.
22:31:04 <alise> Wow, bunzip2 is slow.
22:31:11 <Phantom_Hoover> There aren't actually many theorems in the standard lib.
22:31:12 <pikhq> Yes. lzma is faster.
22:31:24 <alise> Can I get a progress report?
22:31:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:32:34 <alise> So...
22:32:52 <alise> cpressey: Which BSD kernel and libc/basic userland do you think is most liable for tracking in a distro? >_>
22:33:13 <alise> MAYBE DRAWIN
22:33:15 <alise> *DAWRIN
22:33:19 <alise> *DNIWAR
22:33:20 <alise> *DNIRAW
22:33:22 <alise> *DARWIN
22:33:26 <alise> *DARNIW
22:33:38 <Phantom_Hoover> *DARNIT
22:33:51 <Gregor> Yeah, once PureDarwin exists, sometime in 2054 or so.
22:34:22 <alise> Gregor: Fuck that shit, OpenDarwin already existed and booted so it can be done from scratch.
22:34:35 <alise> I see no reason why I can't just start from the actual Darwin source tree. :P
22:35:35 <Gregor> Newer versions of Darwin have dependencies on components that are neither open source nor distributed separate from Mac OS X.
22:37:05 <alise> Gregor: So fork DarwIn! YAAAAY PRACTICAL
22:37:08 <alise> Also, such as?
22:37:24 <alise> http://7447233378926839072-a-puredarwin-org-s-sites.googlegroups.com/a/puredarwin.org/puredarwin/welcome/macports_on_pd.jpg?attachauth=ANoY7cq5T0oxzuthiQdPogaqT6mtYXq9GhIGWpl72eNj8j1006-kEE0sGJOES_62ghsZ79nYjq3zPB31pep_NV3ZBIRpZSDQEpMlm_xWOYL-LoIJtJgZHp_nSt3f5mTolN3VxbfVGNOmZUK1tSSnYrUdgf8sH-DBZEIoS4FmQ9a_yXmJ6yTkvz3K6uDvTDmecIGcOtNToc454YMvYUX_pZ1sZTuwXV-PEw%3D%3D&attredirects=0
22:37:25 <Gregor> Such as http://google.com/search?q=site:puredarwin.org+blockers
22:37:29 <alise> PureDarwin on real hardware
22:37:35 <alise> Running a GUI
22:37:40 <alise> Doesn't seem so blocked to me
22:37:47 <alise> With VNC, admittedly, but hey, it's XFCE.
22:37:49 <alise> And it runs MacPorts.
22:38:15 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: Quit).
22:38:27 <alise> Darwin sucks, anyway.
22:38:43 <Gregor> Yes, yes it does :P
22:39:05 <Gregor> As it turns out, taking Mach and throwing a monolithic kernel on top of it, then declaring that you use a microkernel architecture, is a silly way to build an OS.
22:39:30 <Gregor> An OS with a binary format that trades a useful feature (TLS) for a useless feature (fat binaries)
22:39:38 <alise> It sucks how the current method of creating a BSD is basically "Fork. EVERYTHING!"
22:39:51 <Gregor> BSD is not Linux.
22:39:51 <alise> Gregor: TLS?
22:39:56 <alise> Indeed it isn't.
22:39:59 <Gregor> Thread-Local Storage
22:40:05 <alise> But is there something wrong in the idea of creating a BSD distribution?
22:40:14 <Gregor> Nope
22:40:16 <Gregor> Just cultural.
22:40:30 <alise> Then I say that that fact sucks.
22:40:37 <alise> PC-BSD is the only "BSD distro" I know of.
22:40:47 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Finland&diff=next&oldid=332117
22:40:51 <alise> And it's basically FreeBSD with a package manager and an installer.
22:41:03 <Gregor> There's Debian GNU/kFreeBSD X-P
22:41:03 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, would you consider yourself a duck?
22:41:19 <alise> Yeah, but then you have to use Debian and it's even less polished than the Linux version :P
22:41:29 <Gregor> A) Using Debian is what cool people do.
22:41:38 <Gregor> B) The real issue is then you have to use glibc!
22:41:43 <alise> Using Debian is what desperate people do.
22:41:52 <alise> cpressey: Sweet, DragonflyBSD panics when booting in VirtualBox.
22:42:32 <pikhq> There's Gentoo FreeBSD.
22:42:37 <alise> Then you have to use Gentoo.
22:42:51 <pikhq> (not GNU/kFreeBSD. It's FreeBSD with Portage.)
22:42:52 <Gregor> And Gentoo's package system isn't appreciably different from ports anyway.
22:43:10 <pikhq> Gregor: Ports is a bunch of BSD makefiles. ... Seriously, that's it.
22:43:27 <Gregor> OK, so portage is the port concept minus the suckiness :P
22:43:37 <alise> portage has nothing to do with ports
22:43:38 <Gregor> I keep forgetting how much FreeBSD sucks.
22:43:41 <alise> and it baffles me why anyone thinks it does
22:43:47 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:44:14 <pikhq> alise: Well, Portage is *inspired by* Ports.
22:44:22 <alise> Yeah, whatever :P
22:44:30 <pikhq> And people think it goes further than that.
22:44:36 <alise> It sure does.
22:44:43 <alise> Er.
22:44:45 <alise> Oh.
22:44:46 <alise> I see what you mean.
22:44:48 <alise> It sure doesn't.
22:45:11 <alise> Every time anyone says the words "USE flags", I want to punch them.
22:45:14 <Gregor> portage tastes like elephant ears.
22:45:19 <alise> Gregor: what
22:45:21 <pikhq> Portage is "take the basic concept of a source-based packaging system and do EVERYTHING ELSE DIFFERENTLY".
22:45:48 <Gregor> portage tastes like salt-water taffy?
22:45:55 <alise> "If you use the DVD, you can login as root and start a GUI with 'startx'." Note: lie
22:46:06 <alise> I guess it's a CD, not a DVD, but they don't link to any DVDs.
22:46:09 <pikhq> Which is, obviously, completely and utterly different from Ports. :)
22:46:16 <alise> MD5 (dfly-gui-i386-2.6.1_REL.img.bz2) = (not yet available)
22:46:17 <alise> oh i see.
22:46:21 <Gregor> alise: You can only startx if you burn it to a DVD.
22:46:22 <alise> fuck y'all.
22:46:25 <alise> Gregor: I approve
22:46:38 <alise> cpressey: so is this really your installer?
22:46:53 <alise> Apparently it's experimental.
22:47:45 <alise> WARNING: HAMMER filesystems less than 50GB are not recommended!
22:48:05 <Gregor> Wow. I. What?
22:48:20 <alise> Gregor: Apparently I may have to prune-everything a lot or something.
22:48:27 <alise> I guess it's to do with the storage model and the journalling and stuff.
22:48:38 <alise> Still, fifty gigs?!
22:48:42 <alise> brb
22:51:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Someone give me random pairs of quaternary numbers in the interval [0.1].
22:52:27 <Vorpal> hm clang in static analyzer mode is reaaaaaaaaaaaally slow
22:52:40 <Vorpal> only to be expected though
22:52:50 <Vorpal> but it does make using it a bit more painful for large projects
22:53:23 <Gregor> I assume the "interval" [0.1] is from 0.1 to 0.1, inclusive?
22:54:16 <oerjan> ...what's a quaternary number
22:54:29 <Gregor> A number in base-4, presumably.
22:54:39 <oerjan> ah.
22:55:00 <Gregor> (So 0.1 is 0.25 decimal)
22:55:16 <cpressey> alise: i have no idea if it is anymore or not
22:56:06 <cpressey> alise: use the freebsd userland. it'd be the most... what's the word
22:56:13 <cpressey> oomphatic
22:56:41 <cpressey> there are other "BSD distros"... MidnightBSD, I think, is one
22:57:09 <cpressey> but they don't distro well
22:57:28 <cpressey> because they insist on having a "base system" instead of putting the core userland, etc in packages
22:59:09 <cpressey> the HAMMER filesystem? is first i've heard of it but I'd guess it is HARDCORE JOURNALING FILESYSTEM MADNESS
22:59:56 <pikhq> alise: Had any luck with '95?
23:02:55 -!- augur has joined.
23:07:42 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:19:59 <alise> pikhq: no
23:20:08 <pikhq> Bah.
23:20:14 <alise> pikhq: i suggest purchasing the cd
23:21:05 <alise> cpressey: does your installer have an ascii dragonfly on a blue background in the background?
23:22:11 <alise> pikhq: Why aren't all inits service managers?
23:22:43 <Ilari> Seems like using IPv6 ocassionally has wonky problems. Like some sites being very slow to load even through system DOES have working IPv6 connectivity.
23:23:43 <pikhq> Ilari: That's because there's fewer IPv6 routes.
23:24:01 <Ilari> Looks almost like packets get dropped somewhere because of routing trouble.
23:27:20 -!- augur has joined.
23:28:10 <Ilari> BUT: AFAICT, the sent packets do make it out the LAN to the next gateway with proper return address.
23:30:20 <alise> So.
23:31:11 -!- oklopol has joined.
23:31:15 <oklopol> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
23:31:24 <oklopol> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
23:31:26 <oklopol> i'm back
23:31:32 <alise> oklopol!
23:31:32 <alise> <3
23:31:34 <alise> WE MISSED YOU
23:31:35 <oklopol> :D
23:31:37 <oklopol> meeeeeee
23:31:41 <alise> NEVER LEAVE
23:32:05 <oklopol> you know why i came back?
23:32:10 <alise> why
23:32:18 <alise> (and why did you leave *sniff*)
23:32:19 <oklopol> i'm completely wasted
23:32:23 <alise> cpressey: have you met oklopol before?
23:32:28 <alise> oklopol: stay wasted if it makes you come back.
23:33:26 <oklopol> :)
23:34:01 <oklopol> what's up?
23:34:07 <oklopol> how long have i veen absent
23:34:08 <oklopol> been
23:34:46 <alise> oklopol: ages
23:34:50 <alise> well you popped in
23:34:53 <alise> a few months ago like august
23:34:55 <alise> but only for days
23:34:59 <alise> before that... months and months
23:35:03 <oklopol> cpressey and i met once, he was talking about groups and i was disagreeing
23:35:13 <oklopol> :()
23:35:15 <oklopol> :(
23:35:22 <alise> cpressey, how dare you :|
23:35:24 <oklopol> i'm a horrible person ain't i
23:35:34 <alise> no cpressey was the evil one here.
23:35:49 <oklopol> cpressey was the evil that lead to my absense?
23:35:57 <cpressey> alise: have. i. met. oklopol. before.
23:36:09 <alise> "Does the Pope shit in the woods?? Is a bear catholic??"
23:36:23 <oklopol> i hope i'll have more time once university settles down a bit
23:36:26 <alise> oklopol: are you sure you mean disagreeing, rather than waging nuclear war on
23:37:02 <oklopol> well i'm not sure i said anything, i just recall cpressey said something about that b... thing i disagreed about
23:37:09 <oklopol> burrow or something
23:37:12 <oklopol> bundel
23:37:15 <oklopol> beglar
23:37:17 <oklopol> baiter
23:37:18 <alise> cpressey: so do you hate him or not :D
23:37:19 <oklopol> binser
23:37:32 <oklopol> bottom
23:37:35 <oklopol> bunnon
23:37:39 <cpressey> wait, wait? no! hi oklopol
23:37:45 <oklopol> hello cpressey
23:37:52 <oklopol> nice to meet you
23:37:52 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
23:37:53 <alise> aww happy family
23:38:03 <oerjan> oklopol: burro
23:38:06 <alise> oklopol: i have written some python that will make you proud
23:38:07 <oklopol> oerjan"
23:38:08 <oklopol> !
23:38:14 <oklopol> anyone here know nivat's conjecture
23:38:28 * alise shuffles, points to oerjan
23:38:33 <oerjan> novay
23:38:42 <alise> oklopol: http://pastie.org/1210292.txt?key=hcfdup8hv8dd9hovd40myw this is a game! written in python!
23:38:47 <oklopol> haha because it's like norway
23:38:49 <alise> it is coded exactly like you code verything
23:38:56 <alise> i hope you appreciate my skillz
23:39:00 <oklopol> you mean awesomely
23:39:19 <oklopol> you do realize i don't code *anything* nowadays
23:39:24 -!- jcp has joined.
23:39:25 <alise> oklopol: well yes but
23:39:27 <cpressey> oklopol: were you also who kept making me explain better why i thought there was no ring-language?
23:39:28 <alise> oklopol: shut up and admire my program
23:39:47 <oklopol> cpressey: sounds like something i would do
23:39:56 <cpressey> yeah
23:40:45 <oklopol> alise: tbh i don't see what that does, some sort of rogue?
23:41:05 <alise> oklopol: yes
23:41:15 <alise> oklopol: it abuses integer division and wildly uses booleans as integers
23:41:16 <oklopol> okay
23:41:18 <alise> because that's just how i roll.
23:41:21 <oklopol> cool
23:41:25 <oklopol> yeah
23:41:28 <alise> oklopol: it's pretty fun, try playing it
23:41:37 <oklopol> so btw
23:41:40 <alise> the monsters don't even bother you right now, how cool is that
23:41:42 <oklopol> i just had a friend over
23:41:48 <oklopol> first time in like 3 years
23:41:59 <alise> "Why are there cans of dogfood everywhere?"
23:42:01 <oklopol> (unless you count my gf's friends)
23:42:02 <alise> `quote 91
23:42:07 <alise> damn i hope that's the right number
23:42:09 <oklopol> he stayed for 10 minutes
23:42:11 <alise> oh wait
23:42:13 <alise> `quote porridge
23:42:36 <oklopol> i would love to try it, but it's not a program, it's just text!
23:42:53 <alise> omg i think i may have been on wifi all this time.
23:42:59 <alise> oklopol: save it as vagrant.py
23:43:02 <alise> then run it with python :|
23:43:05 <alise> you knew that.
23:43:18 <oklopol> okay i do have python
23:43:24 <oklopol> but i'm not proud of that
23:43:49 <alise> oklopol: wait are you on windows?
23:43:54 <alise> it may not work if so.
23:44:17 <oklopol> saved it as vagrant.pyu because of my mention-worthy drunkenness
23:44:29 <oklopol> can you rename files?
23:45:00 <oklopol> erm
23:45:03 <HackEgo> No output.
23:45:04 <alise> yes
23:45:08 <alise> you right click on them
23:45:09 <HackEgo> No output.
23:45:10 <alise> and choose Rename
23:45:18 <alise> or press f2, that might work
23:45:21 <alise> after having selected it
23:45:42 <oklopol> i don't know where folder options is in vista...
23:45:48 <oklopol> i mean
23:46:25 <oklopol> it's .txt and windows has this retarded "show user the suffix but don't let them change it" thing
23:46:32 <alise> oklopol: it probably won't work on windows
23:46:44 <alise> since windows python doesn't ship with curses because it's fucktarded
23:47:26 <oklopol> well
23:47:30 <oklopol> that may be true
23:47:46 <oklopol> but turns out the problem i mentioned does have a rather intuitive solution
23:48:13 <oklopol> you can just change the suffix if you like, i don't know why i couldn't the first time i tried
23:48:38 <oklopol> yeah doesn't ship with curses said it
23:48:43 <oklopol> 'says
23:48:47 <oklopol> *says
23:49:31 <alise> oklopol: do you have the ability to install something
23:49:33 <alise> or are you too drunk
23:49:45 <oklopol> well
23:49:51 <oklopol> i guess i could install curses
23:49:56 <alise> http://adamv.com/dev/python/curses/
23:50:00 <alise> this might work.
23:50:14 <oklopol> i'm not *that* drunk
23:50:20 <oklopol> also
23:50:31 <oklopol> it seems my avast is still pirate
23:50:47 <Ilari> Logic circuits that work at 500 degC using microelectromechanics... Aren't there semiconductor circuit technologies (very exotic) that work at 750 degC?
23:51:22 <oklopol> dunno
23:51:45 <alise> oklopol: quick guide to playing vagrant while you attempt to install wcurses.
23:52:09 <alise> hjkl is left/down/up/right, yubn is diagonals, you can figure out those yourself
23:52:18 <alise> % is food, boosts S, S gets to zero, you lose 50 hp/turn
23:52:19 <oerjan> being drunk _should_ help with cursing
23:52:27 <alise> ! is potion, adds to the meter that comes after HP
23:52:32 <alise> Q is inactive enemy
23:52:33 <alise> $ is money
23:52:34 <alise> # is wall
23:52:37 <oklopol> oerjan is funny
23:52:47 <alise> q takes hp from the counter after the hp, adds it to hp, helps with hallucination a bit, and shit
23:52:49 <alise> T is turn count
23:52:53 <alise> @ is you
23:52:59 <alise> if you eat food, 1/15 chance of being rotten
23:53:03 <alise> takes a little bit of hp off
23:53:04 <alise> and you hallucinate
23:53:09 <oerjan> oklopol is polite
23:53:11 <alise> for the next 85-115 turns
23:53:23 <alise> oklopol: oh, and enter dismisses a message if you wanna see the status bar
23:53:30 <alise> or if your cursor goes after a message any key dismisses it and lets you move
23:53:30 <oklopol> copy it to your "site-packages directory" what the fuck is a site packages directory :D
23:53:34 <alise> (otherwise it's not a blocking message)
23:53:39 <alise> oklopol: wherever python is\lib\site-packages
23:53:48 <alise> oklopol: and finally, any other key skips a turn.
23:54:12 <alise> also, hallucination is AWESOME
23:54:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:54:34 <oklopol> you've hallucinated?
23:54:39 <alise> in the game
23:54:44 <alise> <alise> if you eat food, 1/15 chance of being rotten
23:54:44 <alise> <alise> takes a little bit of hp off
23:54:44 <alise> <alise> and you hallucinate
23:54:46 <oklopol> are you still in that institution thing
23:54:50 <alise> hurrrrrr
23:54:50 <alise> oklopol: no
23:54:54 <oklopol> :o
23:55:01 <oklopol> please elaboray
23:55:02 <oklopol> te
23:55:09 <alise> oh yeah and holding down enter is useful since you can usually make out what the tiles are, when hallucinating
23:55:10 <alise> with that
23:55:14 <alise> since it re-hallucinates
23:55:17 <alise> oklopol: "i'm out"
23:55:24 <oklopol> completely
23:55:25 <oklopol> ?
23:55:31 <alise> something like that, yes
23:55:34 <oklopol> :O
23:55:39 <oklopol> that's really cool
23:55:43 <oklopol> why?
23:55:45 <alise> this happened like a month or two ago :P
23:55:48 <oklopol> :D
23:55:50 <oklopol> :DD
23:55:51 <oklopol> :DDD
23:55:58 <alise> oklopol: they kicked me out for being insufficiently crazy
23:56:03 <oklopol> haha :)
23:56:10 <alise> note: joke stolen from ais523
23:56:40 <oklopol> okay, well anyway that's pretty cool
23:56:57 <oklopol> i figured once in always in
23:57:05 <oklopol> <- optimist
23:57:18 <alise> lawl
23:57:44 <alise> cpressey: what the FUCK is packet mode
23:58:15 <oklopol> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
23:58:33 <oklopol> okay umm
23:58:53 <alise> lemme guess, something isn't working
23:58:55 <oklopol> maybe i'm too drunk for curses because i pressed the button and your program still won't run!
23:59:00 <alise> what error!
23:59:17 <oklopol> well probably it says curses isn't installed, i didn't look
23:59:18 <oklopol> lemme look
23:59:50 <cpressey> alise: heh. um... i knew, once
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