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00:46:53 <elliott> "On runtime this created a small, 122 byte x86 program based upon the benchmark bytecode which clocked in at an average speed of 0.518 secs. This was only around twice as slow as the control so I was fairly confident at this point.
00:46:55 <elliott> I slickly inquired into what Mat was working on, and he informed me he was writing his bytecode interpreter in Visual Basic.NET. I was a bit skeptical at first, considering he did not know Visual Basic, but was reassured he wasn't joking."
00:47:22 <elliott> "[...] I was forced to conclude that Visual Basic is faster then Assembly, that I'm a horrible coder, and Mat wins."
00:48:14 <elliott> coppro: http://byteworm.com/2010/11/21/the-fastest-vm-bytecode-interpreter/
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01:09:34 <Ilari> HAH... IPv4 depletion estimates: Lagerholm: February 13th 2011 (unfortunately, not friday), Houston: October 30th 2030....
01:09:47 <Ilari> (IANA depletion to be more accurate)
01:12:29 <elliott> Ilari: I don't quite understand. What are those two estimates?
01:12:38 <elliott> Obviously the latter one is crazy.
01:14:51 <Ilari> Estimates from two different models. Those models are named after those who developed them... And I think there's more such estimates...
01:15:23 <elliott> Ilari: Houston seems a bit optimistic.
01:15:50 <Ilari> It seems that October 30th 2030 is some sort of horizon for that model, because it predicts RIR exhaustion for the same day (which is obviously absurd).
01:16:48 <Ilari> Yeah... The difference nowadays (discounting insane results) is something like 20 days, with Houston being the more optimistic one...
01:18:28 <Ilari> It was about 50 days before that AFRINIC surprise allocation (before that models predicted May-July, but then jumped to February-March).
01:20:09 <elliott> Ilari: switching to an ipv6 provider soon is a good idea, huh :)
01:20:55 <Ilari> Heh... I should maybe call tech support (or something) and ask them (not that I expect them to have any clue). :-)
01:21:05 <zzo38> Will cjb.net support IPv6 DNS?
01:21:18 <elliott> zzo38: I very much doubt it, since cjb.net is basically a relic of the early 2000s.
01:21:25 <elliott> Ilari: I think the only .fi ISP with IPv6 is Nebula.
01:21:47 <elliott> Ilari: Indeed, according to http://www.sixxs.net/faq/connectivity/?faq=native&country=fi (if you trust SixXs; I wouldn't. :p)
01:22:00 <coppro> (you are welcome that I let you know I didn't know that)
01:22:51 <Ilari> And IIRC, at least some time ago Nebula had fucked up IPv6.
01:22:54 <elliott> coppro: http://www.google.com/search?q=RIR
01:23:04 <elliott> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Internet_registry)
01:23:26 <elliott> Ilari: LACNIC ought to rename to LACONIC. :)
01:24:27 <Ilari> Reserving the <prefix>::1 for themselves, which apparently breaks about everything in IPv6.
01:25:49 <coppro> Ilari: yeah, that would fuck everything up hardcore
01:26:22 <elliott> i still think we need to hold an ipv4 depletion party
01:26:31 <elliott> have a countdown to the very last allocation ever
01:26:40 <elliott> Ten! Nine! Eight! Se-- oh, look, there it goes. OH GOD EVERYTHING IS BREAKING
01:26:48 <Ilari> I don't know the exact reason why reserving that address really fucks things up...
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01:32:54 <Ilari> It is quite difficult to search for more information about that... Google brings up all sorts of non-relevant links.
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02:02:27 <coppro> Ilari: Reserving the last address doesn't fuck things up
02:02:44 <coppro> however, it's the point at which people go "oh, crap, there might, y'know, be a problem with not switching to IPv6"
02:03:07 <Ilari> Also, I found the reason why it fucks things up.
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03:10:09 <zzo38> Count how many things you can find wrong with this: http://www.studiohunty.com/horrible/vid2.jpg
03:11:15 <zzo38> I can find many things wrong with it.
03:12:14 <coppro> there's got to be more than 45 billion things wrong with it
03:12:18 <coppro> and there's no numbers that big
03:13:06 <zzo38> One thing is the contradictory durations (neither of which is correct).
03:13:54 <zzo38> (At least I think neither duration is correct)
03:14:26 <zzo38> And did you notice all the typographical errors?
03:16:16 <zzo38> (I just checked the actual movie data (of the movie that was actually in there; the refering page indicates those things), in fact both durations on the box are incorrect.)
03:22:01 <Gregor> "And tribulations with relationships."
03:22:08 <Gregor> ^^^ Best - phrase - ever.
03:24:08 <Gregor> Oh hey, it has Eng lish, Eng lish and Francais.
03:44:58 <coppro> anyone want a fun calculus problem?
03:47:02 <zzo38> Season Stacker was abandoned four years ago, there is no full version and no source-codes available.
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04:01:13 <Ilari> Hah... This forum has an employee of one ISP essentially saying that IPv6 in their core network is in production use. And that was back in 2005. Apparently not much has happened since...
04:05:37 <Ilari> Hmm... Apparently I am using ISP 6to4 gateway for outgoing traffic. At least IPv6 traceroutes have addresses in ISP prefix range.
04:07:13 <Ilari> Which means they have IPv6 connectivity (I can also see the IPv6 peerings using "looking glass"). And their core network presumably has IPv6 in production use...
04:08:59 <Ilari> So pretty typical for an ISP... Core network is IPv6 enabled but the distribution networks and last mile links aren't.
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05:49:05 <Gregor> Wow, even when XKCD is made by guests, it sucks.
05:49:56 <oklopol> well, it's possible those guests where homosexual
05:50:10 <Gregor> It does not suck in the good way.
05:50:13 <coppro> I thought this xkcd was amusing
05:50:19 <oklopol> then maybe i should read it
05:53:17 <oklopol> i don't know if that was good
05:55:49 <oklopol> http://www.xkcd.com/821/ some of these were definitely good those
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06:51:21 <Gregor> Bach! Activate the magic flute and teleport us home! Wagner's right behind me on his ring cycle!
06:52:49 <Gregor> Not every day you see a (not-)classical music slash Mario Bros 3 co-reference :P
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13:16:48 <Ilari> Hah: "The 'crazy bad' terminology – which was at odds with the normally sober and scientific language of the Twitter account – appeared to have been a joke embedded in the embassy's monitoring program and triggered by a reading that was off the normal scale."
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14:08:21 <elliott> 06:34:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Is it just me, or is the Banach-Tarski Paradox nothing of the sort?
14:08:21 <elliott> 06:34:59 <Phantom_Hoover> I mean, it doesn't imply a contradiction or anything, it's just weird.
14:10:32 <elliott> 13:53:57 <Phantom_Hoover> I love the way DMM's blog is basically IWC's annotations.
14:11:08 <elliott> 18:02:27 <coppro> Ilari: Reserving the last address doesn't fuck things up
14:11:09 <elliott> 18:02:44 <coppro> however, it's the point at which people go "oh, crap, there might, y'know, be a problem with not switching to IPv6"
14:11:13 <elliott> coppro: he meant reserving <prefix>::1, duh
14:11:18 <elliott> coppro: he knows all about ipv4 depletion :p
14:17:08 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: huh, you're online twice
14:19:48 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: I like how you're using your clan nick as an alternate nickname
14:20:23 <elliott> 21:49:05 <Gregor> Wow, even when XKCD is made by guests, it sucks.
14:20:26 <ais523\unfoog> it's not really an alternate; this is the web IRC client, I typed it in by hand
14:20:29 <elliott> Gregor: to be fair, it *was* a parody
14:21:00 <ais523\unfoog> "alternate nick" to me means the nick your IRC client picks when your main one's already in use
14:24:50 <Vorpal> <elliott> coppro: he meant reserving <prefix>::1, duh <-- why would anyone do that?
14:25:04 <Vorpal> it is commonly used for the router though
14:25:04 <elliott> Vorpal: Nebula, and who knows
14:25:14 <elliott> ais523: it also means nick that is alternate
14:25:19 <elliott> ais523: i.e. nick used when you don't have your main nick
14:25:20 <Vorpal> also argh this connection sucks
14:25:36 <Vorpal> elliott, mine? no, bad wlan
14:25:48 <elliott> no, i answered your question with a question.
14:25:54 <Vorpal> elliott, nebula is an ISP?
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14:26:24 * magari finds a chair and takes a seat
14:26:32 <elliott> Vorpal: http://www.nebula.fi/
14:26:36 <elliott> magari: the chairs are made of lava
14:26:38 <Vorpal> elliott, <Vorpal> gah, dns just died
14:26:58 <elliott> Vorpal: http://217.30.180.1/
14:27:13 <elliott> magari: standard disclaimer: this is about esoteric programming languages (well, er, sometimes), not esoterick magick and all that lark
14:27:31 <Vorpal> elliott, hm and that company is doing something strange to <prefix>::1 ?
14:27:42 <elliott> Vorpal: reserving it for themselves, at least as of a while ago.
14:27:52 <elliott> magari: you have no idea how many people we get expecting the latter.
14:28:09 <elliott> right, well, it's not always that clear :D
14:28:24 <Vorpal> elliott, err. Surely not officially accepted by IANA?
14:28:32 <Vorpal> elliott, also for all prefixes or what?
14:28:38 <magari> if I was looking for the latter I would probably be on a different network
14:28:44 <elliott> magari: actually, you have no idea how many people come in here expecting esoteric languages and then get driven away by all the hundreds and billions of lines of offtopicness :)
14:28:48 <elliott> magari: yeah, but they don't tend to be that smart
14:29:17 <magari> im actually just perusing around
14:29:21 <magari> looking for an old friend
14:29:58 <fizzie> Vorpal: Nebula is just numbering their gateway as <prefix>::1 for all the <prefix>/64's they give out to their users.
14:30:14 <fizzie> I don't think they really need anyone's permission for that.
14:30:22 <fizzie> It's their address space, after all.
14:30:40 <Vorpal> fizzie, and makes certain sense for routing
14:30:42 <elliott> elliott@dinky:~/esoteric$ grep -r Aali .
14:30:51 <fizzie> Vorpal: It is native, yes.
14:31:00 <Vorpal> fizzie, okay, not *quite* as much sense then
14:31:41 <Vorpal> for something like AYIA tunneling it would be perfect sense
14:31:43 <fizzie> It might be arguably be more elegant to have their router to do the usual EUI-64 MAC-based auto-addressing, since (IIRC) they do send out the usual ICMPv6 router advertisements and so.
14:31:56 <fizzie> Anyway, at least it's easy to remember what to ping6 when things don't work.
14:32:14 <Vorpal> fizzie, ping6 ipv6.google.com ?
14:32:16 <magari> doubt he is still around here, but im gunna hang for a while and find out
14:32:36 <Vorpal> elliott, ::1 = localhost
14:32:44 <Vorpal> so that wouldn't work very well
14:33:02 <fizzie> Their router is closer and in the same net, though. Might well work even when routing outside doesn't.
14:33:20 <Vorpal> fizzie, true. You have to remember your prefix though
14:34:04 <fizzie> That's true; and in the case autoconfiguration works so well that the prefix gets configured, it's pretty likely that the default-route would too. But still.
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14:46:25 <ais523\unfoog> statistically speaking, the next student I have to mark won't turn up
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14:47:52 <oklopol> how many times out of hundred has he attended this particular meeting that's about to happen?
14:48:05 <oklopol> and how many times has he bailed
14:48:53 <oklopol> nono i'm assuming you are using the statistics of this particular meeting at this particular moment.
14:48:55 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: i suggest dancing around loudly
14:49:04 <elliott> <oklopol> nono i'm assuming you are using the statistics of this particular meeting at this particular moment.
14:49:13 <ais523\unfoog> oklopol: oh right, well he isn't here instantaneously
14:49:40 <coppro> http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html is awesome
14:49:41 <ais523\unfoog> elliott: btw, you didn't submit an answer to the exercise I set for this week
14:49:46 <ais523\unfoog> so I don't see how I can give you any marks for it
14:49:58 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: i... what exercise :(
14:50:13 <oklopol> do you give online courses available for anyone
14:50:16 <elliott> coppro: oh god it's like nationstates! PLAYING NOW
14:50:17 <ais523\unfoog> elliott: I assume the reason is that you aren't on my course
14:50:22 <coppro> elliott: BUT WITH REAL DOLLARS
14:50:35 <elliott> coppro: hey it tries to manipulate me into checking the first box!
14:50:38 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: i didn't know about your course!
14:50:47 <coppro> elliott: They should have every Congressman play this game
14:50:49 <ais523\unfoog> elliott: then why did you assume you had a meeting with me about it?
14:50:54 <oklopol> ais523\unfoog: it's unfair to give less points to people who didn't know about the course
14:50:57 <coppro> and then pick all the most popular options and implement them
14:51:08 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: i... guess because you're having a meeting with all the others
14:51:19 <ais523\unfoog> oklopol: of course not, knowing about the existence of the course is one of the implied course objectives
14:51:22 <elliott> <coppro> and then pick all the most popular options and implement them
14:51:25 <elliott> coppro: that's called congress
14:51:38 <elliott> coppro: you think they'd look at the result? :)
14:52:33 <oklopol> ais523\unfoog: okay fair enough
14:52:41 <elliott> haha I am going to TAX the SHIT out of the americans
14:52:46 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: but.. i mean
14:52:50 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: you didn't tell me!
14:53:04 <ais523\unfoog> and any student on the course could have accessed it
14:53:17 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: you didn't tell me about the course :(
14:53:33 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: you never told me!
14:53:45 <coppro> why would elliott be in ais523's course?
14:53:55 <ais523\unfoog> coppro: he wouldn't, that's why the conversation's so surreal
14:54:01 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: well sure but
14:54:08 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: i thought you'd tell me!
14:54:16 <elliott> i didn't think i'd have to ask, 'cuz, you know, nobody else had to ask
14:54:20 <elliott> you told them about the course!
14:54:38 <oklopol> elliott definitely need to revise his basic java
14:54:39 <ais523\unfoog> everyone on the course was told about it by someone else
14:54:57 <coppro> wtf "earthquake prevention"
14:55:06 <coppro> that's the dumbest idea I've heard
14:55:09 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: ok, well, why do they all hate me?
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14:55:51 <coppro> unfortunately, I have one of those class things coming up
14:55:55 <elliott> coppro: i am saving SO MUCH money for america with TAXES
14:56:47 <coppro> I was about half and half
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14:57:09 <coppro> the problem, of course, is that half of Congress will be all for spending cuts
14:57:14 <coppro> and the other half all for tax increases
14:57:59 <elliott> why does america have so much debt sheesh
14:58:12 <ais523\unfoog> coppro: no, most of Congress in the US is all for tax cuts and spending increases
14:58:12 <coppro> because Bush is retarded
14:58:37 <elliott> "Reduce the number of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan to 30,000 by 2013" oh man I have to DELIBERATE REALLY HARD OVER THIS
14:58:42 <elliott> it's like the hardest decision EVER
14:59:00 <coppro> HOW WILL WE DEFEND DEMOCRACY
14:59:14 <elliott> man i am like cutting the entire military here
14:59:15 <coppro> AND SPREAD IT TO THE INFIDELS, I MEAN, UNENLIGHTENED, I MEAN, PEOPLE WITHOUT DEMOCRACY
14:59:22 <elliott> coppro: I MEAN, PEOPLE WITH OIL
14:59:47 <elliott> "Reduce nuclear arsenal and space spending"
14:59:51 <elliott> i love the wording of that
14:59:53 <ais523\unfoog> elliott: don't be ridiculous, the US would have invaded itself if that was the only criterion
15:00:00 <elliott> "Would reduce number of nuclear warheads to 1,050, from 1,968. Would also reduce the number of Minuteman missiles and funding for nuclear research and development, missile development and space-based missile defense."
15:00:47 <elliott> 33% savings from tax increases, 67% savings from spending cuts
15:00:53 <elliott> it's that imbalanced because i cut the entire military :)
15:01:11 <ais523\unfoog> elliott: you'd never get re-elected for doing that
15:01:19 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: i'm not done yet :P
15:01:47 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: also, by "cut the whole military" what I actually meant is "stop the military spending loads of cash on pointless shit, and end the Iraq and Afghanistan crap"
15:01:56 <elliott> but i ticked all the military-cutting options, so there
15:01:58 <elliott> i just cut the entire military
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15:03:01 <elliott> "Nearly every other rich country has a tax on consumption, also known as a value-added tax or national sales tax. This option would impose a 5 percent consumption tax, exempting education, housing and charitable giving."
15:03:07 <elliott> The USA doesn't have VAT???
15:03:24 <elliott> hey i solved the deficit but i'm not done yet!!
15:03:42 <elliott> 61% tax incerases, 39% spending cuts
15:03:44 <oklopol> how many of those nuclear warheads would they need for an effecive apocalypse? you'd think they could drop the amount just under that without too much deliberation.
15:03:51 <ais523\unfoog> also, those exemptions are rather different from the UKs
15:04:02 <elliott> i think i'm going to keep checking boxes
15:04:07 <elliott> even if I have accidentally solved the deficit
15:05:00 <elliott> coppro: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html?choices=03x245r4 <-- what i solved the deficit with
15:05:09 <elliott> coppro: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html?choices=03xl45rh <-- what i kept going with
15:05:56 <elliott> hmm i didn't do anything to the federal employees
15:07:26 <ais523\unfoog> elliott: how many jobs would be lost as a result of your deficit-wiping?
15:07:43 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: as far as i can tell, something like 0.
15:08:10 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: military jobs, yse
15:08:13 <ais523\unfoog> I'd imagine cutting most military projects would lead to a bunch of unemployed soldiers
15:08:23 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: not /that/ many, really
15:08:35 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: I cut back the military to pre-Iraq War size in one option
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15:08:51 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: but most of the rest was just cutting navy/air force fleets, getting rid of weapons programs, etc.
15:09:13 <ais523\unfoog> so you have a bunch of soldiers with nothing to do
15:09:16 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: yep, that's it, no other jobs would be lost
15:09:20 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: also, that's not true
15:09:40 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: they did something before whatever program they were in, after all
15:09:46 <ais523\unfoog> that's mostly how the Japanese Army works, and they do things like build snowmen
15:10:11 <ais523\unfoog> because they aren't allowed to train for war or something because of sanctions after World War II, or something like that
15:11:42 <oklopol> why can't you drop everything the military is doing, and just pay the people the same amount for doing nothing?
15:12:20 <oklopol> then you'll have no one unemployed, get spending cuts, and millions of people able to just chill for the rest of their lives
15:12:24 <elliott> oklopol: well, if america was *completely* without defences I'd imagine there'd be more than a little temptation to attack the USA
15:12:34 <elliott> oklopol: but uhh sounds like what ais523\unfoog said about the japanese army :P
15:12:56 <oklopol> they can't actually do anything tho right
15:13:06 <elliott> oklopol: also, isn't that just unemployment money thingies except you have to go to work every day to do nothing
15:13:25 <oklopol> why would they have to go to work? they just get payed
15:14:37 <elliott> oklopol: so did you buy mc yet
15:24:06 <elliott> oklopol: all the 18 year olds in finland
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15:30:51 <oklopol> not all of them, for instance i was thinking i'd, for some reason, be able to skip that thing
15:35:51 <oklopol> i just hear it has its problems
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15:48:47 <Dmytro> I can not sea your hands!
15:49:20 <Dmytro> do you have any books about esoteric
15:49:39 <Dmytro> I will buy one or two or three
15:49:43 <elliott> but we can all sea our hands
15:49:51 <elliott> Dmytro: first initiate the code process
15:49:52 <Dmytro> can you deliver it to me
15:50:59 <Dmytro> I do not remember exectly the adress of the page
15:52:12 <Dmytro> my adress is Ukraine, Chigrina 22,122 Mykolaiv zip code 54020
15:52:44 <Dmytro> I will pay you in US dollars or rubles
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16:01:44 <Dmytro> I can make a good one web page
16:02:47 <Dmytro> instead books fooks for free
16:04:17 <Dmytro> and go to Kiev capital of Ukraine
16:05:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Dmytro, you are under arrest under suspicion of being a spambot.
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16:06:14 <ais523\unfoog> Dmytro: people don't generally post their addresses to IRC
16:07:13 <oklopol> why would we want a web page
16:07:59 <Dmytro> what adress do you wanna have?
16:08:10 <oklopol> you answer mine, i'll answer yours
16:08:38 <Dmytro> my mail is erodimon@gmail.com
16:09:24 <fizzie> oklopol: What's that? Little Timmy's falled down the well?
16:09:43 <oklopol> we don't know if we don't ask these questions
16:12:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Do you commonly have naked saunas and then roll about in the snow, or is it just an elaborate trick to play on gullible foreigners?
16:12:57 <fizzie> It's not very uncommon, no.
16:13:04 <oklopol> fizzie doesn't do it, i do
16:13:52 <fizzie> That's right, though I don't know how you know that.
16:14:09 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, curses. There was so much potential for mockery there...
16:14:21 <oklopol> well i don't know that specific piece of data, just like i don't actually know you have a penis.
16:15:16 <fizzie> They do it in Sweden too, I saw it in this "Ung och bortskämd" Swedish reality TV show that's apparently some sort of a thing now.
16:16:22 <fizzie> Or at the very least there was snow and some shirtless dude. I don't know, I wasn't paying attention.
16:17:03 <oklopol> i honestly don't know if Deewiant does that kind of stuff though
16:18:59 <fizzie> don't call him "deviant" for nothing, I presume.
16:19:38 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, oklopol, wait, that's exactly what you would say if you were playing an elaborate trick on gullible foreigners!
16:20:13 <Phantom_Hoover> For you see, I am a foreigner, and slightly gullible, and hence a prime target for your tricks!¬
16:20:35 <fizzie> I am tempted to do the no-such-word-in-the-dictionary trick now.
16:21:02 <fizzie> But no, I need to go burn some more chickens to have something to eat.
16:22:45 <ais523\unfoog> hmm, isn't the whole point of reality shows to contrive situations that don't happen when there isn't a TV crew there?
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16:27:30 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: "Did you know the word 'gullible' is not in the dictionary?"
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16:28:18 <fizzie> ais523\unfoog: The point of that show is, to quote a forum post: "Basically, 10 Swedish kids aged 18-24 who are used to mom and dad doing everything for them, even if they have their own apartments, are suddenly thrown together into a house and forced to fend for themselves."
16:28:33 <fizzie> ("Ung och bortskämd" translates to something like "young and spoiled".)
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16:30:50 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, I dimly recall steadfastly ignoring a similar thing on TV here.
16:44:02 <ais523\unfoog> Phantom_Hoover: they did something similar in the UK, only I think it was with 6-8 year olds
16:44:19 <ais523\unfoog> they started acting in increasingly dubious and illegal ways in a deliberate attempt to get the TV crew to interfere
16:44:39 <ais523\unfoog> (I ignored that too, but it was mentioned in the media on occasion)
16:45:04 <Phantom_Hoover> No, it was precisely the Swedish version, with studenty age types.
16:51:56 <ais523\unfoog> what the hell? http://www.novell.com/news/press/novell-agrees-to-be-acquired-by-attachmate-corporation
16:52:18 <ais523\unfoog> Novell are being bought by some people I've never heard of, and as part of the sale agreement are selling some of their IP to Microsoft
16:58:36 <ais523\unfoog> Phantom_Hoover: your news is nowhere near as scary as mine
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16:59:47 <Vorpal> fizzie, what a weird show. Are you sure it is Swedish?
17:01:05 <Vorpal> fizzie, okay. I haven't watched TV since valvakan
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17:06:38 <ais523> Vorpal: looks like SCO vs. IBM may go ahead anyway, just with a company other than SCO
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17:10:07 <Vorpal> ais523, SCO being bought too?
17:10:38 <Phantom_Hoover> I worked out why the computable reals are simultaneously countable and diagonalisable.
17:11:25 <Vorpal> fizzie, customised my minecraft skin
17:11:28 <Phantom_Hoover> They're countable, but that sequence reduces to the halting problem, and as such the diagonal is not itself a CR/
17:13:51 <Phantom_Hoover> I got confused about this months ago, though, so I doubt anyone else remembers.
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18:55:50 <elliott> ais523: Novell announced in November 2010 that it had agreed to be aquired by Attachmate for $2.2 billion. Attachmate plans to operate Novell as two units, one being SUSE. Certain intellectual property assets are planned to be sold to a consortium of companies led by Microsoft.[15]
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19:02:07 <eafkuor> any idea on how to prove the turing completeness of a language?
19:03:27 <elliott> eafkuor: implement a brainfuck interpreter
19:03:37 <elliott> eafkuor: or an SKI calculus interpreter, or an underload interpreter, or...
19:03:45 <elliott> pick a turing-complete language, implement it, done :)
19:04:02 <olsner> ehm, a universal one, that is
19:04:30 <eafkuor> yeah I know I could just implement a BF interpreter I was looking for the easy way
19:04:52 <olsner> I think that *is* the easy way :)
19:05:05 <Gregor> Can't get much easier than implementing BF ...
19:05:17 <olsner> string rewriting could be easier
19:05:24 <fizzie> BCT is among the simple ones, too.
19:05:35 <eafkuor> i can just ask my professor to do it :D
19:06:36 <eafkuor> and a way to prove a language is NOT turing complete?
19:06:59 <eafkuor> i don't want to spend the rest of my life trying to write an interpreter just to find out it's impossible
19:07:36 <elliott> eafkuor: demonstrate that it fails to meet one of the criteria for turing completeness
19:07:42 <fizzie> Fail to implement a BF interpreter. Clearly, then, either the language is not turing-complete, or you just aren't clever enough: and the latter is obviously unthinkable.
19:07:48 <elliott> eafkuor: e.g. it cannot use arbitrary amounts of memory
19:08:46 <eafkuor> well of course you are limited in memory but you can assume you have an infinitely powerful pc
19:08:59 <fizzie> You can also implement your thing in something that's known to be not turing-complete.
19:13:27 <ais523> elliott: I know, I told the channel but you weren't here
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19:13:43 <ais523> apparently, the most likely guess as to the assets in question are every patent Novell owns
19:13:46 <elliott> <eafkuor> well of course you are limited in memory but you can assume you have an infinitely powerful pc
19:13:53 <elliott> eafkuor: some languages have an inherent limit to accessible memory
19:14:03 <elliott> eafkuor: e.g. if you say memory addresses are 6-bits and point to a byte
19:14:13 <elliott> then you have a max. 64 bytes of ram no matter what
19:14:16 <ais523> which is scary, but not as scary as "the copyrights to UNIX", and it's interesting that they didn't sell Mono (although I suppose being an open-source project, the copyrights to it aren't worth much)
19:14:44 <elliott> ais523: mono is being developed at whatever the company they've been bought's name i
19:15:05 <ais523> apparently, they used to do mainframe terminal emulators, and were briefly famous for that
19:15:25 <elliott> 08:05:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Dmytro, you are under arrest under suspicion of being a spambot.
19:15:49 <ais523> what I found hilarious was that I checked the zipcode he gave, and it actually corresponded to the address he gave
19:15:55 <ais523> so I conclude that the address was valid
19:16:06 <elliott> ais523: I really want to print out the esolang wiki, tie it up, and mail it to the address; he did *ask* for a book on esoteric
19:16:37 <ais523> (wonders of the Internet #n+1: someone with no knowledge of the subject at all (me) could check the area which a Ukranian zip code corresponded to within 2 minutes)
19:16:39 <elliott> instead books fooks for free / and use safari / do you need money / I have a platinum / and silver / forks and knifes
19:16:54 <elliott> ip is valid / I have lots of money / I can help / yep / with web page / on php / or perl
19:17:05 <elliott> ais523: please tell me you didn't use a web browser
19:17:11 <ais523> I'd have assumed straight trolling, if it wasn't for the apparent validity of the contact details
19:17:12 <elliott> thus making "wonders of the *Internet*" the only correct way to word that
19:17:22 <elliott> ais523: we need google maps via finger
19:17:26 <ais523> but then, I was using one even for my IP
19:17:50 <ais523> I didn't use Google Maps, though; I found a list of Ukranian zip codes via Google, and crossreferenced it with the Wikipedia details on his/her address)
19:18:28 <elliott> <ais523> but then, I was using one even for my IP
19:18:39 <ais523> elliott: I meant "for IRC", and said the wrong thing
19:19:30 <elliott> from reddit, re: wikipedia donation adverts (NSFW text, and yes, I for once feel this note is justified :P) http://i.imgur.com/rKDDB.png
19:19:45 <ais523> "NSFW text" is a pretty amazing warning
19:19:55 <ais523> one that makes me want to avoid the link
19:20:09 <elliott> ais523: in this case, it's just profanity
19:20:13 <ais523> but still wonder how bad it has to be to justify the warning above all the other links that typically go around
19:20:18 <elliott> ais523: and i normally hate "NSFW text" warnings, it's just that the text is big
19:20:24 <elliott> and thus visible from relatively afar
19:20:49 <ais523> I love the idea that your concept of work-safety depends on how easily someone could shoulder-surf what you're looking at
19:20:50 <elliott> ais523: what i get /really/ annoyed about is when people (cough Sgeo) tag the "NSFW" warning next to something because it has the word "fuck" in it
19:21:07 <elliott> there is a very fine line!
19:21:51 <ais523> elliott: hmm, I wonder if it depends on context?
19:21:59 <ais523> e.g. would he consider "brainfuck" NSFW?
19:22:15 <elliott> ais523: i think he's said brainf*** before, and i probably lynched him for it
19:22:38 <ais523> I don't see why you wouldn't just abbreviate it to BF if you wanted to remove the profanity
19:22:44 <ais523> I do that frequently, just to save on typing
19:23:04 <elliott> ais523: it should be "bf" really
19:23:09 <elliott> it's neither BrainFuck nor Brainfuck
19:23:09 <ais523> well, as frequently as there's an ontopic discussion
19:23:13 <elliott> <ais523> well, as frequently as there's an ontopic discussion
19:23:30 <ais523> elliott: no it shouldn't; brainfuck isn't inherently lowercase, it just follows the normal capitalisation rules for a common noun
19:23:37 <ais523> and they go into capitals when made into acronyms/abbreviations
19:23:46 <elliott> ais523: let me go check the original distribution
19:23:53 <elliott> i bet it has "brainfuck" at the start of a sentence
19:25:37 <elliott> grr, he manages to avoid it
19:26:17 <elliott> ais523: fine, but I'm going to put {{lowercase}} on [[brainfuck]]
19:26:34 <elliott> ugh, we have no {{lowercase}}
19:41:23 <ais523> elliott: hmm; shouldn't titles be in title case?
19:42:08 <elliott> ais523: feel free to revert
19:44:51 <pikhq> http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=bellingham&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bellingham,+Whatcom,+Washington&gl=us&ei=CtTpTN27FJP0swOvqOSwCw&oi=geocode_result&ved=0CCAQ8gEwAA&ll=48.998965,-111.96682&spn=0.003421,0.007628&t=h&z=18
19:45:14 <pikhq> Uh, I'm pretty sure it is illegal to use all of that baseball field.
19:45:30 <pikhq> Or that nearby parking lot.
19:47:23 <ais523> elliott: I'll use a custom {{wrongtitle}}, I think
19:58:50 <elliott> "thus use of P2P software will almost inevitably slow your computer [and your internet connection] down." --Oxford internet policy, demonstrating extreme powers of FUD in the non-bracketed bit
20:02:39 <elliott> ais523: hmm, I wonder why the AGPL doesn't extend to all kinds of IPC?
20:03:02 <elliott> e.g. http://www.acquisitionx.com/ is a proprietary app that communicates with the GPL'd core it uses via unix pipes
20:03:15 <elliott> one would think that the spirit of the GPL forbids these, like it forbids proprietary network prgoarms
20:03:18 <coppro> elliott: very difficult to define it in such a way that it gets what you want but not what you want
20:03:27 <coppro> also, no one but RMS cares
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20:24:03 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: i have a friend that goes to oxford and he quoted it
20:24:17 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It also bans Yahoo! Messenger; I am not quite sure why.
20:29:13 <pikhq> elliott: It's the opinion of the FSF that communication with a GPL'd program via pipes is entirely legal.
20:29:27 <elliott> pikhq: so is serving a modified GPL'd program over a network without offering source
20:29:30 <elliott> pikhq: but it's against the spirit, thus AGPL
20:29:46 <pikhq> elliott: Even when doing crazy ass-things like that GPG-wrapping plugin...
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21:34:23 <fxkr> does anyone of you know if someone has ever managed to get the "hello, world" in brainfuck to below 105 instructions? thats my solution, i bet its possible to improve it, but i couldnt find a shorter one on the internet..
21:36:32 <fxkr> (/me wants to print that on a tshirt, but 105 instructions sounds like "failed to get it < 100")
21:37:00 <elliott> fxkr: there have been hand-optimised versions
21:37:19 <fxkr> !bf_txtgen Hello, world!
21:37:25 <elliott> fxkr: it runs, give it time
21:37:33 <elliott> it won't produce an optimal solution, but it's "good enough" most of the time
21:37:42 <elliott> and it improves each time -- Hello, world! has to have been run through it a billion times by now :)
21:37:53 <fxkr> is the source code of that thing available?
21:38:06 <fxkr> oh oops, should have been "hello, world" (= original version)
21:38:09 <elliott> fxkr: oh, it will never run. EgoBot is not here :)
21:38:10 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, Vorpal, ineiros, any ideas on what to put in a giant cavern?
21:38:15 <elliott> "Hello, world!" is pretty canonical.
21:38:56 <elliott> fxkr: https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/
21:39:01 <elliott> fxkr: look for bf_txtgen in the source tree
21:39:03 <fxkr> thanks a bunch
21:39:42 <elliott> fxkr: https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/index.cgi/file/0fe16032eb2b/multibot_cmds/interps/bf_txtgen/textgen.java
21:39:51 <elliott> fxkr: there are better generators, but not ones i have links to.
21:54:09 <fizzie> For "hello, world" with that textgen, 100 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++>++>++++++++<<<<-]>-.---.+++++++..+++.>-.>++.>-.<<<.+++.------.--------. [4088]
21:55:04 <fxkr> fizzie: yeah it gave me a 100 soln too
21:55:37 <pikhq> bf textgen really should handle mod256 arithmetic.
21:55:43 <fxkr> not a pretty one though so i am hand-optimizing that right now for my tshirt
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21:57:25 <ais523> elliott: thanks for what you've done to Agora, it's made an otherwise boring week pretty interesting
21:57:38 <ais523> nobody has any idea what the rules say any more
21:57:39 <elliott> ais523: i swear, i had no intention of ambiguity
21:57:44 <elliott> i forgot you were all stuck-up losers :)
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22:22:54 <SgeoN1> I am utterly bored waiting for the bus
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22:28:05 <oklopol> SgeoN1: lol get a car like all the cool ppl do
22:29:55 <oklopol> i ride the bus as well, but the bus schedules are public in finland, so you can just walk to the stop just before the bus comes
22:30:34 <elliott> SgeoN1: how can you blame that on your dad
22:31:04 <oklopol> his dad owns the car business
22:31:16 <oklopol> and won't allow cars be sold to him
22:31:41 <SgeoN1> Well, or should I get the blame for relying on my dad to set up stiff for driving lessons, which he never did?
22:32:03 <SgeoN1> Oklopol, so busses always arrive exactly on the dot?
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22:32:27 <elliott> SgeoN1: are you somehow unable to sign up for driving lessons yourself
22:32:38 <oklopol> SgeoN1: well sometimes the dot is big and fuzzy
22:32:51 <elliott> not that i've ever done it, just seems pretty trivial and all
22:33:11 <oklopol> elliott: it's surprisingly hard to do anything, actually
22:33:31 <SgeoN1> My dad wants to install a passenger side brake in some car so I can get practice
22:33:33 <elliott> oklopol: yeah i mean you're fighting against basically onstoppable forces
22:33:40 <elliott> oklopol: atomic interactions, gravity... Sgeo's dad...
22:33:46 <elliott> <SgeoN1> My dad wants to install a passenger side brake in some car so I can get practice
22:33:52 <elliott> installing passenger side breaks into cars?
22:34:06 <elliott> yeah that sounds really hard
22:34:11 <elliott> you have to pull it when you want the thing to stop.
22:34:26 <oklopol> what kind of 20's car do you have
22:34:30 <elliott> oklopol: well this is one of the imaginary breaks that you pull.
22:34:46 <oklopol> well those exist but i think you'd usually install a pedal
22:35:04 <SgeoN1> So that if I end up... in some dangerous situation, he can stop the car.
22:35:21 <oklopol> how about a gas pedal for when you're being a pussy
22:35:26 <elliott> SgeoN1: does he not believe in driving instructors or something
22:35:30 <SgeoN1> Erm, what oklopol said
22:36:15 <oklopol> elliott: free practise as much as needed?
22:36:41 <SgeoN1> Supposedly, my dad was a driving instructor once
22:36:44 <oklopol> although installing a brake might not be free
22:36:45 <elliott> oklopol: well true i guess paying for SgeoN1's 1,000,000 years of driving lessons might be difficult
22:36:53 <elliott> SgeoN1: a doctor AND a driving instructor? man he's a genius
22:37:51 <SgeoN1> And whenever my step-mother brings up the issue, she's talking how important it is for me to learn how to drive "even if it takes years and you only drive on local roads"
22:39:19 <elliott> <SgeoN1> And whenever my step-mother brings up the issue, she's talking how important it is for me to learn how to drive "even if it takes years and you only drive on local roads"
22:39:21 <oklopol> SgeoN1: that's some serious confidence right there :D
22:39:21 <elliott> that makes no sense at all
22:39:28 <elliott> Driving has INHERENT UTILITY!
22:40:24 <oklopol> driving is not a particularly beautiful skill
22:40:35 <oklopol> unlike say making carrots fly
22:41:02 <SgeoN1> What use is skill writing programs meant to run under PSOX?
22:41:38 <oklopol> good point, surely elliott agrees that's a skill that has inherent utility :D
22:41:53 <elliott> maybe one day SgeoN1 will die and nobody will ever say "PSOX" again
22:41:56 <oklopol> maybe that was not your purpose
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22:42:26 <oklopol> i can't really do anything
22:44:10 <oklopol> is this the kind of duel where you can die?
22:44:27 <oklopol> i mean i'm all for dying in my twenties in a duel, but i think you're supposed to actually get some results first.
22:44:49 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, you have 2 days in which to solve the Riemann hypothesis.
22:45:07 <elliott> oklopol: galois disagrees!
22:45:14 * elliott is lynched by a million mathematicians
22:45:16 <Phantom_Hoover> That'll give me time to find an épeé with a point that's actually sharp.
22:45:25 <oklopol> galois didn't get results before dying?
22:45:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Maybe I should get two, actually... no, you'll source your own swords!
22:46:33 <oklopol> i may also buy a pistol just in case
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22:49:26 <oklopol> if you actually "bring" a nuke, i think i can just use that as my weapon too.
22:50:47 <oklopol> assuming it's a big nuke that also kills you, a draw against a world-class fencing champignon like you would already be quite an accomplishment
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22:52:28 <oklopol> or i don't actually know the rules of fencing, will the one that's incinerated first lose or what
22:54:06 <SgeoN1> Just don't forget to use puns
22:54:28 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, well, in epee it's basically "stick pointy end in other person".
22:54:44 <oklopol> well sure but what about nukes
22:55:33 <oklopol> well yeah but i'm asking who the winner is if both die in the explosion
22:55:53 * SgeoN1 takes the pin out of of a grenade, sticks the pin in PH, takes the grenade and runs
22:56:27 <oklopol> you win, and he never gets a rematch
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22:58:56 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm not actually *sure* what the rules are if you hit /yourself/.
22:59:14 <oklopol> you can't just ask or anything
22:59:52 <oklopol> "hey i learned a cool trick"
22:59:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Perhaps do some kind of insanely overdrawn parry and hit my own foot.
23:00:12 <oklopol> is epee the name of that thing?
23:00:27 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: what if you refuse to fight
23:00:32 <oklopol> hmm yeah it's pretty obvious from one of ur mesuges
23:00:38 <elliott> pacifism, the religion of the pacific
23:00:42 <oklopol> elliott: sure, it's all about politics
23:00:46 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: ok, what if you just slap them
23:01:03 <elliott> what if they do that and you just slap them
23:01:17 <Phantom_Hoover> I think slapping someone means that they have to duel them or they'll be your bitch.
23:01:50 <oklopol> if you're having a duel, and you slap someone else, will the duel you're having be put in the stack
23:02:13 <oklopol> and what if you slap yourself?!?
23:02:17 <oklopol> fencing is fucking confusing
23:02:30 <oklopol> with all the nukes and recursion and pacifism
23:03:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Duelling etiquette is regrettably absent from fencing didactery.
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23:20:28 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_page of all the pages to depict
23:27:37 <oklopol> wow it's like infinity in your pocket
23:28:34 <oklopol> so do you get phrases stuck to your head, like songs do
23:28:57 <oklopol> i've had "penis hungry hooker" in my head all day, probably heard that on south park or something
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23:33:39 <nooga> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
23:33:48 <nooga> i just discovered that i can't do pipes
23:38:07 <SgeoN1> 20 min or so until the next bus
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23:39:09 <nooga> i spawned shitton of child processes using fork() and plumbed them with each other and the parent process
23:39:24 <nooga> and unbelievable mess exploded
23:40:24 <oklopol> SgeoN1: the buses here are usually off about 5 minutes, haven't you been standing there for like 2 hours
23:40:41 <nooga> i don't have plan9
23:40:49 <nooga> i thought i still have it
23:40:52 <SgeoN1> I caught that bus and the bus after
23:41:04 <SgeoN1> I'm waiting for the last bus
23:41:08 <olsner> nooga: why did you do it wrong when you could've done it right?
23:47:58 <elliott> <olsner> nooga: why did you do it wrong when you could've done it right?
23:48:01 <elliott> this is what cpp said to me
23:48:07 <elliott> through a veil of unworkingness
23:48:23 <elliott> oklopol: SgeoN1's trying to avoid embarrassment, he's been waiting for the bus for 7 years.
23:48:37 <elliott> sometimes he goes on his laptop rather than his phone to keep up the illusion that he's at home
23:48:42 <elliott> and he invented this story about university
23:48:54 <elliott> this also explains his nostalgia, he literally hasn't seen or used anything younger than 7 years
23:48:55 <oklopol> i wasn't even line in 1999
23:49:03 <elliott> oklopol: yeah, you wasn't even line.
23:49:39 <oklopol> well to be honest i don't know why i wrote that
23:49:50 <oklopol> i have no idea what i was trying to say
23:50:03 <olsner> well, neither do we :)
23:50:31 <cheater00> oklopol: you were trying to say that you weren't line.
23:50:58 <cheater00> btw, check this out: http://www.liveleak.com/mp53/player.swf?config=http://www.liveleak.com/mp53/player_config.php?token=07b_1284580365%26embed=1
23:51:32 <olsner> cheater00: ooooh! I get it now
23:51:49 <olsner> he wasn't even line back then
23:52:51 <olsner> did you mix up your/you're just there?
23:53:04 <oklopol> not unintentionally anyway
23:53:09 <olsner> I'm not line, neither do I have one
23:53:29 <olsner> and if I were or did, you couldn't bet it
23:53:43 <nooga> now my daemon reads yaml config files
23:53:52 <oklopol> olsner: you did get the pun tho?
23:53:56 <cheater00> olsner: after oklopol is done, i'll bet your line too
23:54:08 <cheater00> it's better to do it this way, than to use your own
23:54:11 <oklopol> sometimes i like to do a reality check
23:54:19 <SgeoN1> THEN WHO IS FUCK THIS MEME?
23:54:23 <oklopol> well seems it was a good idea
23:54:42 <olsner> nooga: my daemons mostly possess me and do stupid crap, but I'm glad yours are more educated
23:54:57 <olsner> or even configurable? that'd be awesome
23:55:20 <oklopol> speaking of education, do it
23:56:20 <SgeoN1> There are no girls on this bus
23:56:58 <oklopol> yeah looking at teens in the bus always makes my morning
23:57:19 <cheater00> oklopol: have you watched <<url>> ?
23:57:26 <oklopol> and listening them talk about school and that weird creep that always stares at... wait
23:58:07 <oklopol> cheater00: n15:58:22 <oklopol> the url