←2010-12-17 2010-12-18 2010-12-19→ ↑2010 ↑all
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00:02:16 <elliott> back, sort of
00:03:03 <elliott> * ddarius wonders if there is a #not-not-math channel.
00:03:03 <elliott> <augustss> ddarius: constructive or classical?
00:03:06 <elliott> <ddarius> augustss: Well clearly it would be a place to stick all those non-classical mathematicians.
00:03:10 <elliott> oerjan-logread: ^
00:03:33 <Vorpal> elliott, know what, I detected another change
00:03:41 <elliott> Vorpal: huh?
00:03:58 <Vorpal> elliott, someone wasted one stone + one glass on changing a window from ** to 2 vertical glass instead
00:04:09 <Vorpal> elliott, this is beyond logic
00:04:23 <elliott> wut
00:04:45 <Vorpal> elliott, indeed!
00:05:40 <Vorpal> elliott, see /msg too
00:05:57 <elliott> in a minute, brbing right now
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00:19:45 <elliott> http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=99223 this is awesome
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00:33:35 <nooga> ide spac
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01:10:49 <elliott> pikhq: What I'm thinking about for a build system: vaguely Make-backwards-compatible, but (1) ALLOW NON-TAB INDENTATION, (2) run recipes as full shell scripts, (3) make $... and $(...) and ${...} synonyms for {...}, where the code inside {}s is part of a pure, functional language; (3) strictly separate (with GNU make-style |) source files and dependencies; and (4) a huge library of fancy built-in rules and the like, e.g. the C rule would handle a
01:10:50 <elliott> utomatic dependencies.
01:15:24 <pikhq> 1: Yes 2: Yes 3: Yes 4: Yes
01:15:54 <pikhq> Add "it supports spaces" and you have the best Make-ish thing.
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01:17:32 <elliott> Vorpal: http://imgur.com/RtgyF.png
01:17:46 <elliott> Vorpal: I like this texture pack a lot. (also featured: Better Light, and Better Grass!)
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01:17:51 <Vorpal> elliott, can't open it on this computer *types into other*
01:17:55 <elliott> Admittedly it's hard to see the Better Grass.
01:18:20 <Vorpal> elliott, better grass?
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01:20:54 <elliott> Vorpal: It makes continuous patches of grass cover the entire block.
01:20:56 <elliott> Nice effect.
01:32:27 <elliott> pikhq: Also, you forgot my SECOND (3).
01:37:02 <pikhq> elliott: 三: Fuck you.
01:37:03 <pikhq> :P
01:42:02 <elliott> RIP Captain Beefheart.
01:43:02 <pikhq> *groan*
01:43:30 <pikhq> Apparently Julian Assange has not been made *aware* of what the charges against him are. No wonder everyone's confused. We only have rumors of what the charges are.
01:43:49 <pikhq> I suspect with *that* detail, no sane court will extradite.
01:43:57 <pikhq> (that is to say, he should stay the fuck out of the US)
01:49:42 <Vorpal> fizzie, got the -3 error when placing a torch in a very very specific place
01:49:49 <Vorpal> fizzie, not when removing it though
01:50:05 <Vorpal> fizzie, 100% reproducible, out near 4000,4000
01:53:21 <elliott> pikhq: In fact, my idea is pretty similar to OMake
01:53:29 <elliott> pikhq: Which has ".DEFAULT: $(CProgram prog, foo bar baz)"
01:54:20 <pikhq> elliott: So, basically OMake but elliotised.
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01:55:27 <elliott> pikhq: TWO
01:55:28 <elliott> MOTHER
01:55:28 <elliott> FUCKING
01:55:29 <elliott> TS
01:56:57 <pikhq> I'm sorry elliott, but I was talking to elliot here.
01:57:49 <elliott> Oh.
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02:15:57 <elliott> church: Alonzo!
02:16:01 <elliott> church: It is the highest honour.
02:16:29 <church> http://wetfish.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/leaking_by_humon-d34xwuj.jpg
02:16:38 <church> hello elliott.
02:17:04 <pikhq> By Lambda, it's Church!
02:18:23 <elliott> I have a crazy theory, maybe church is not actually Alonzo Church.
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02:18:58 <pikhq> elliott: Hmm. Perhaps Alonzo Church of the Lambda Calculus is not immortal.
02:19:30 <elliott> GASP
02:19:32 <elliott> Heathen!
02:20:37 <pikhq> Oh dear, what have I done?
02:21:10 * pikhq performs 12 evaluations of (\x.xx)(\x.xx)
02:21:16 <pikhq> s/evaluations/iterations/
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03:11:56 <church> :/
03:12:46 <coppro> d/win 23
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04:02:56 <elliott> fizzie: "Minecraft is a hype created by TIGsource scammers." zomg!
04:04:20 <elliott> fizzie: Quite a schizophrenic "apology" and stuff: http://www.codergames.com/news/games/minecraft/
04:04:24 <elliott> November 18th, 2010
04:04:25 <elliott> Minecraft, a harmony and joy of creation!
04:04:25 <elliott> Minecraft proves that there's still hope for a human kind!
04:04:25 <elliott> November 16th, 2010
04:04:25 <elliott> Minecraft, more thoughts.
04:04:25 <elliott> I might have rushed a bit with the conclusion about Minecraft.
04:04:27 <elliott> November 12th, 2010
04:04:29 <elliott> The whole propaganda surrounding Minecraft is very fishy.
04:04:31 <elliott> The only thing that stinks is TIGsource!
04:04:40 <elliott> "I was under a lot of pressure, I still am. Anti-communists in Serbia don't have social security, jobs or any ability to get a job as everything is highly controlled and is only there to leave the impression to other countries that its a normal country as well."
04:04:43 <elliott> I, uh ...
04:05:38 <elliott> lol: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=6273.0
04:06:31 <elliott> "People are not stupid, they're capable of thinking on their own, they just need to free themselves from constant brainwashing, people just need to unplug, free their mind from the prison some very bad people (TIGsource and alike, illuminati, satanists, reptilians, luciferians, etc.) imposed onto them."
04:09:47 <hagb4rd> amen
04:10:28 <hagb4rd> hi elliot.. what time do you have now?
04:11:37 <elliott> amen?
04:11:40 <elliott> please tell me you're joking
04:11:50 <hagb4rd> i am
04:12:10 <elliott> phew
04:12:18 <elliott> hagb4rd: what time do you have now? i can't parse your sentence >_>
04:12:28 <hagb4rd> timezone
04:13:00 <elliott> oh
04:13:01 <elliott> gmt
04:14:22 <hagb4rd> o'right.. so you're from..uk? (if i may ask)
04:14:43 <elliott> yep
04:15:06 <hagb4rd> k ..*updating statistics*
04:15:37 <hagb4rd> so y the hell you're awake?
04:15:39 <hagb4rd> :)
04:16:13 <elliott> why not
04:18:02 <hagb4rd> so.. you guys have a public minecraft server?
04:19:02 <hagb4rd> where do you play?
04:20:43 <hagb4rd> *last question so far ;)
04:21:38 <elliott> hagb4rd: we have a server, but it's private :P
04:21:49 <elliott> and it's not really an #esoteric server, it just happens that all but one of the people on it are in here
04:22:50 <coppro> from #irp:
04:22:50 <coppro> 23:19 < sbluen> finally, a language that can solve the undecidability problem, I think
04:22:54 <coppro> 23:20 < sbluen> that is, the halting problem
04:24:22 <elliott> coppro: that's a rather terrible name :D
04:25:12 <elliott> coppro: #irp is like our retarded twin brother we try to pretend doesn't exist :/
04:25:24 <hagb4rd> ..i'd really like to join you.. let me know if you're interested in having some company then
04:25:25 <elliott> i remember setting it up when reddit invaded here :)
04:25:39 <elliott> hagb4rd: ineiros is the admin. being Finnish helps a lot, I gather
04:25:47 <elliott> although actually the Finns are in a minority now aren't they...
04:25:48 <hagb4rd> k thx
04:25:49 <elliott> wait, no, exactly 50%
04:26:09 <elliott> hagb4rd: health is turned off so if you don't like that it's probably not worth it :)
04:27:36 <elliott> Gregor: I'm going to drag up you being an idiot!
04:27:38 <elliott> Gregor: You're all wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. To quote the page: "write, in plain English, in polite command form, what you intend for your program to do." Brainfuck is NOT plain English in polite command form. So it's not valid IRP. And while you can request that somebody keep infinite memory in mind, they actually can't do that. So it may be that the language itself is Turing-complete but there is no TC implementation. --GregorR 17:37, 21 Aug 20
04:27:38 <elliott> 06 (UTC)
04:27:42 <elliott> Gregor: HAHA I'VE NEVER SAID ANYTHING STUPID
04:28:22 <Gregor> Uhhh, OK?
04:28:34 <Gregor> I see nothing of me being an idiot in that quote.
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04:29:05 <Gregor> But anyway, http://sss.cs.purdue.edu/projects/dynjs/imgsrc/javascript_the_evil_parts.png makes up for it regardless.
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04:30:22 <elliott> Gregor: You claimed that "Please execute the brainfuck program 'blah blah blah'." wasn't valid IRP, because that somehow wasn't polite English.
04:30:36 <elliott> Because, it seems, your holiness, ",[.,]" just made this sentence not polite English.
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04:30:59 <elliott> Gregor: I commend you for that publisher line though :P
04:33:04 <Gregor> elliott: Please interpret the following Spanish: "Considere si la proporción de los idiomas es más o menos importante que el lenguaje de nivel superior."
04:33:19 <elliott> Gregor: <Gregor> elliott: Please interpret the following Spanish: "Considere si la proporción de los idiomas es más o menos importante que el lenguaje de nivel superior."
04:33:27 <elliott> Gregor: This is still an English statement. And a polite one at that.
04:33:41 <Gregor> You clearly did not interpret the Spanish :P
04:33:44 <elliott> Gregor: Admittedly the execution of that directive is beyond my grasp; but then, so is "Print out the decimal digits of Graham's number", which is definitely a valid IRP program.
04:34:04 <elliott> Gregor: Just interpreted it and I'm fairly sure the proportions is irrelevant.
04:34:08 <elliott> English has quoting! Gasp!
04:34:31 <Gregor> Pff
04:36:09 <elliott> Gregor: Are you seriously saying that [[Please interpret the following Spanish: "Considere si la proporción de los idiomas es más o menos importante que el lenguaje de nivel superior."]] is not English?
04:36:17 <elliott> Gregor: Are you seriously saying it is not polite?
04:36:27 <elliott> It is /both/; it is a polite English command, and therefore a valid IRP program.
04:37:06 <Gregor> Your mom is not polite English.
04:52:04 <elliott> Gregor: Your face is not polite German.
05:03:32 <elliott> pikhq: http://sprunge.us/BUPQ
05:05:37 <elliott> pikhq: Give me endless praise and wonderment for doing the obvious.
05:06:02 <elliott> pikhq: (cat is just like juxtaposing all the variables, except that it doesn't add pointless spaces when the variables are empty ... should probably be called catargs or something)
05:07:34 <elliott> This is an astonishing statistic! Imagine being
05:07:34 <elliott> able to do a single file compile, out of 1000
05:07:34 <elliott> source files, in only 10 seconds, plus the time for
05:07:34 <elliott> the compilation itself.
05:07:41 <elliott> --Recursive Make Considered Harmful
05:07:47 <elliott> OH MAN I CAN HARDLY WAIT, THANKS 1998!
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05:12:23 <elliott> "Hang on a minute! On real-world projects with
05:12:23 <elliott> less than 1000 files, it takes an awful lot longer
05:12:23 <elliott> than 25 seconds for make to work out that it has
05:12:23 <elliott> nothing to do."
05:12:30 <elliott> Gregor: Did you live in 1998? What was it like? :-P
05:12:52 <Gregor> ... oh come on, you're not THAT young ...
05:13:18 <elliott> "But we are not using PDP11s any more. The
05:13:18 <elliott> physical memory of modern computers exceeds
05:13:18 <elliott> 10MB for small computers, and virtual memory
05:13:18 <elliott> often exceeds 100MB."
05:13:28 <elliott> Gregor: I was *three years old* when that paper was written.
05:13:45 <Gregor> So, ALIVE
05:14:02 <elliott> Gregor: But I could hardly be said to have lived in the same 1998 as people who used make occupied :P
05:14:22 <Gregor> I don't believe I was make-capable in 1998
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05:16:19 <elliott> Gregor: I don't actually know how old you are exactly :P
05:16:35 <Gregor> Good.
05:17:30 <elliott> Gregor: BUT THANKFULLY GOOGLE DOES
05:17:33 <elliott> (Or at least is likely to.)
05:18:20 <elliott> Gregor: WHY DOES GOOGLE NOT KNOW HOW OLD YOU ARE
05:18:44 <Gregor> Have you ALREADY FORGOTTEN that I'm a stable causal loop?
05:18:50 <elliott> How can Google not... know ... anything
05:19:04 <elliott> Gregor: http://www.thorn-lang.org/ Google thinks I care about this more than how old you are.
05:21:09 <elliott> Gregor: Remind me to grep the logs to figure out when you started doing that grad school thang so I can extrapolate :P
05:21:14 <elliott> And then I can post it on Google and EVERYONE WILL KNOW
05:21:15 <elliott> FOR SCIENCE
05:22:13 <Gregor> You don't know how old I was when I started grad school, how many years I spent in undergrad, how many years I spent at Intel, what year I started 1st grade ...
05:22:28 <elliott> Gregor: Darn, right, I was assuming you entered grad school right after undergrad
05:22:32 <elliott> Hmm
05:22:38 <elliott> Gregor: I'll examine your nose to determine your age. Like tree rings
05:22:42 <elliott> (This only works on jews)
05:22:52 <elliott> Gregor: "The composite logo of the GNU and OSI logos was created by Gregor Richards." ;; please, please, please show this to rms.
05:23:03 <elliott> Video tape it. Then YouTube his heart attack.
05:23:05 <Gregor> 8-D
05:25:19 <elliott> Gregor: Did you actually ever come into existence?
05:25:23 <elliott> Or have you just, like, always been there.
05:26:26 <Gregor> <Gregor> Have you ALREADY FORGOTTEN that I'm a stable causal loop?
05:26:33 <elliott> Gregor: I KNOW I KNOW
05:26:37 <elliott> [[Computer Science student, revered software developer, natural-born rally navigator: Gregor is a man who wears many different hats!]]
05:26:40 <elliott> Please tell me that was intentional.
05:26:51 <Gregor> ... wtf?
05:26:59 <elliott> I am the only person who can Google-stalk someone and not find their birthdate :-P
05:27:05 <elliott> Gregor: http://twistyroads.net/trnt/entrylist.html; grep /your name/
05:28:07 <Gregor> Quite probably intentional :P
05:28:28 <Gregor> Very subtle since all two readers of that page wouldn't know the reference.
05:28:50 <elliott> Gregor: THREE NOW
05:29:24 <elliott> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ivkC_YJxk ;; Maybe you'll offhandedly mention your birthdate in this
05:29:55 <elliott> Gregor: Congratulations, you bastard; you've singlehandedly destroyed my faith in Google.
05:30:02 <elliott> I don't know what to believe any more.
05:30:05 <Gregor> I WIN FIVE INTERNETS
05:30:30 <elliott> Gregor: BTW, how old are you again?
05:30:50 <Gregor> Damnit elliott, I HAVE NO AGE. I am infinitely old but do not age, I am a stable causal loop!
05:30:56 <elliott> Gregor: THAT ALMOST WORKED
05:31:16 <elliott> Gregor: Anyway, I am not sure stable is the right word to describe you :P
05:31:25 <elliott> OHHHH SNAPPPPP
05:32:59 <Gregor> What hint could I give that would be insufficient to guess too much, but could help potentially ...
05:34:51 <elliott> Gregor: "I accept friend requests on Facebook from people who upload videos of stapling their own face."
05:35:00 <elliott> (Assuming you have your birthdate on Facebook :P)
05:35:32 <Gregor> Only day, not year.
05:36:18 <elliott> Gregor: Do you post updates saying "AWESOME, I'm # NOW!!!!"?
05:36:20 <elliott> If so, that would suffice.
05:36:42 <Gregor> I don't really care about birthdays.
05:38:05 <elliott> Gregor: Grepping the logs for you mentioning numbers between 17 and 30: INDEED YOU DON'T
05:38:19 <Gregor> elliott: 17
05:38:20 <Gregor> 18
05:38:20 <Gregor> 19
05:38:21 <Gregor> 20
05:38:21 <Gregor> 21
05:38:22 <Gregor> 22
05:38:22 <Gregor> 23
05:38:24 <Gregor> 24
05:38:26 <Gregor> 25
05:38:28 <Gregor> 26
05:38:30 <Gregor> 27
05:38:32 <Gregor> 28
05:38:36 <elliott> Gregor: CURSES, HOW CAN I EVER GET AROUND THIS ATTACK?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
05:38:36 <Gregor> 29
05:38:38 <Gregor> 30
05:38:58 <Gregor> What's hilarious is that I've never made even the slightest attempt to hide that information :P
05:39:37 <elliott> 10.03.06:22:17:20 <Gregor> Whereas the target audience for your site is in the 0.25-to-0.75 turnips intelligence range.
05:40:06 <elliott> 21:17:45 <Khazar> It is time to put those Haitian jigaboos in their place! No matter how many times the civilized world donates money, opens schools, rebuilds their nation, and holds their little monkey paws, the damn niggers can never get it right. They never will! The same goes for New Orleans! Cancun in Mexico suffered few fatalities after their major hurricane, and the rebuilding is already completed. Wha
05:40:06 <elliott> 21:17:45 <Khazar> t have the niggers in New Orleans done? If you are sick of this, join Chimpout Forum! http://www.chimpout.com/forum We welcome all races except for NIGGGGGGGERS! We are not white supremacists, just negro inferiorists! http://www.chimpout.com/forum
05:40:08 <elliott> The site in question :P
05:40:17 <elliott> I wonder how one pronounces "NIGGGGGGGERS".
05:41:20 <elliott> I think it's "nig" -- at which point you allow a little bit of water to flow to the top of your mouth and vibrate it while continuing the g sound -- and then "ers".
05:41:53 <elliott> 22:18:46 <Khazar> i once knew a nigger named esoteric
05:41:53 <elliott> 22:19:02 <Khazar> he had a sister named shaquanda
05:41:59 <elliott> if only he had taken my advice
05:42:01 <elliott> to, his fortune, not squander
05:42:02 <elliott> IT RHYMES
05:43:12 <elliott> 22:20:23 <Khazar> Average Human IQ 100 Average Nigger IQ 80 Of course there are negroes that have normal IQs, but you are much more likely to run into a feral ape
05:43:12 <elliott> 22:20:28 <Khazar> than a magic negro
05:43:12 <elliott> 22:20:42 <Khazar> many who don't see this have been isolated from the bulk of the nigger population
05:43:12 <elliott> 22:20:49 <Khazar> and just know a few magic ones in the workplace
05:43:14 <elliott> Gregor: Can you feel the magic
05:44:32 <Gregor> As far as I can tell I know only magic ones. And no feral apes, modulo the fact that by any reasonable definition, all humans not in captivity are feral apes.
05:45:04 <elliott> Gregor: Obviously the intelligent negroes commit themselves to a life of BDSM.
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05:45:08 <elliott> Obviously.
05:45:26 <Gregor> Apparently grepping for "25" has some pretty interesting effects X-D
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05:45:37 <elliott> Gregor: wat
05:45:39 <elliott> you mean timestamps?
05:45:55 <Gregor> Oh, I assumed you got that by grepping for Gregor.*25
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05:46:01 <Gregor> Since it's me ... then a (0.)25
05:46:05 <elliott> Gregor: Not just 25 :P
05:46:10 <elliott> But yes, all the numbers.
05:46:21 <Gregor> Well I don't know exactly how you grepped X-P
05:46:22 <elliott> (The numbers are the integers between 17 and 30, inclusively.)
05:46:33 <elliott> (That is how the numbers are defined and only shit it's almost 6 am.)
05:47:18 <Gregor> Lesse, what's the minimum age I could be? Is it even reasonable that I could have been 17 while on #esoteric ...?
05:47:45 <elliott> Gregor: Well, I came in here when I was 11 or so... and started being active when I was 12.
05:47:56 <elliott> Admittedly you're more than the difference older than me, probably :P
05:48:00 <elliott> (Between 12 and 17.
05:48:01 <elliott> )
05:48:08 <elliott> Gregor: But really, I get no meaningful results even with that range, so *shrug*
05:48:09 <Gregor> elliott: I don't mean just being here at that age at all
05:48:18 <elliott> What then?
05:48:18 <Gregor> elliott: I mean that, given the knowledge you have, could I have possibly been here at 17?
05:48:23 <elliott> Right. Well, not really.
05:48:34 <elliott> Gregor: Are you <, =, or > 25? :P
05:48:39 <Gregor> Yup.
05:49:22 <elliott> Gregor: Are you < 25?
05:49:44 <Gregor> Do you think for some reason I'm required to actually answer these questions? :P
05:50:05 <elliott> Gregor: Yes.
05:50:06 <elliott> Gregor: Are you < 25?
05:50:15 <pikhq> elliott: Sadly, 1998 was a full 4 years before I would use make for the first time.
05:50:31 <elliott> pikhq: Man, I interpreted make as a regular word there SO CONFUSED
05:50:41 <pikhq> God, I've been Unixing for a long time.
05:50:50 <pikhq> (relative to my life span)
05:50:53 <Gregor> pikhq: Apparently The Google is insufficient to guess my age! Although I don't really care THAT MUCH about keeping my age secret, the fact that it's not out there is so fascinating I kinda have to!
05:51:04 <elliott> pikhq: Has anyone really been far even make as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
05:52:34 <elliott> <Gracenotes> elliott: then again people were mostly pinging me by wrongfully tab-completing the other guy whose nick began with Gr :)
05:52:35 <elliott> <elliott> Gracenotes: It's okay, we've killed him off and now his corpse lines our walls and floor. You can come back now.
05:52:37 <elliott> Gregor: PLAY DEAD
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05:53:20 <Gracenotes> meows
05:53:28 <pikhq> Hmm. There's a lunar eclipse this winter solstice.
05:53:56 <elliott> Gracenotes: JUST JOKING YOU'RE NOT WELCOME HERE
05:53:59 <elliott> GO DIE IN A FIRE
05:54:03 <elliott> (death and fire optional)
05:54:27 <Gracenotes> D:
05:54:47 <elliott> Gracenotes: We already have a curse! A SEXY curse!
05:57:45 <elliott> augur: as a linguist, what are your opinions on version control theory?
05:57:58 <augur> elliott: uh?
05:58:09 <elliott> augur: yep!
05:59:18 <elliott> augur: well that's the best blank stare i've ever seen communicated over IRC
05:59:21 <augur> elliott: i dont see how it relates
05:59:58 <augur> lol
06:00:02 <elliott> augur: well it's vaguely to do with streams of things. that have semantic meanings!
06:00:03 <elliott> and merging them.
06:00:12 <augur> no?
06:00:14 <elliott> augur: YES
06:00:21 <augur> not.. really
06:01:34 <elliott> augur: no but if darcs can claim to be based on quantum physics, i want scapegoat to be based on linguistics
06:01:37 <elliott> so start bullshitting, faggot
06:01:43 <elliott> :|
06:01:45 <augur> wut
06:01:47 <augur> darcs?
06:01:55 <elliott> augur: THESE WORDS ARE OF NO CONCERN TO YOU
06:02:35 <augur> :|
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06:04:24 <Gracenotes> Fantastic Mr. Fox is turning out good
06:56:56 <quintopia> who are you Gracenotes
06:58:19 <Gracenotes> I don't know what to say. You ask a very deep question.
06:59:51 <Gracenotes> I have been here before though
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08:34:26 <quintopia> Gracenotes: all that's in my logs is you joining and pinging out a lot. how long ago was it?
08:34:48 <quintopia> also, was it in november? i didn't idle here in november because it was too distracting
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11:40:23 <fizzie> Vorpal: You might consider using the github issue trucker for mcmap bugs, then I can keep 'em straight(tm). Anyway, for the -3 error I think I'm going to need to dump the whole packet to file and see what's up with it.
11:49:28 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm
11:51:40 <fizzie> It seems to me to be very simple; no complicated milestone/class/priority/component/whatever forms to fill in, just a single text-box.
11:53:02 <fizzie> (Though it's not like I'm going to forget the -3 thing, just in general it could be easier to report there, since I don't really logread #esoteric, sometimes even not when I'm highlighted.)
11:54:20 <Ilari> What -3 thing, BTW?
11:56:43 <fizzie> Sometimes chunk update packets cause the zlib uncompress() function to fail with error -3. ("Z_DATA_ERROR if the input data was corrupted or incomplete.")
11:57:24 <Ilari> Or you feed the wrong data to zlib...
11:57:26 <fizzie> It's rather strange, since the compressed-data length is given in the packet before the actual data, and I read exactly that many bytes.
11:57:38 <fizzie> But of course there can be some sort of bug.
11:57:49 <fizzie> It's just that it seems to happen only in very specific circumstances.
11:58:20 <Ilari> What circumstances?
11:58:29 <fizzie> Better ask Vorpal that.
11:58:51 <fizzie> So far there's been some sort of a complicated waterfall-related scenario, and now placing a torch in a very specific place.
12:00:39 <fizzie> Neither of which should make the sent-out chunk-updates any different than plain old regular chunk-updates, though.
12:01:45 <Ilari> Some sort of buffer overrun?
12:03:06 <Ilari> Ah, this is Java...
12:06:49 <Vorpal> hm
12:07:30 <Vorpal> fizzie, actually it is within 2-3 blocks of that place
12:07:40 <Vorpal> Ilari, his code is C though
12:07:47 <Vorpal> (minecraft is however java)
12:10:15 <Vorpal> fizzie, I guess I could try valgrind
12:10:24 <Vorpal> (atm I'm not using mcmap)
12:13:31 * Phantom_Hoover discovers that the Reader monad is the same as the (->) monad.
12:13:34 <Phantom_Hoover> My mind is blown.
12:16:08 <fizzie> There's one well-known zlib valgrind error that always happens.
12:16:17 <fizzie> At least on my installation the default suppression files don't cover it.
12:16:22 <fizzie> It's safe, though.
12:17:13 <fizzie> Other than that mcmap was valgrind-safe (error-wise; there might be leaks; it's not very careful code) at some point.
12:17:26 <Ilari> Ah, valgrind suppressions. One thing one would likely want to suppress: All memory leak messages from allocations done inside global ctors.
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12:21:00 <fizzie> ==16424== definitely lost: 116 bytes in 4 blocks
12:21:00 <fizzie> ==16424== indirectly lost: 436 bytes in 7 blocks
12:21:00 <fizzie> ==16424== possibly lost: 14,719,745 bytes in 721 blocks
12:21:00 <fizzie> ==16424== still reachable: 1,458,563 bytes in 1,774 blocks
12:21:14 <fizzie> But just the one conditional-uninitialised zlib thing.
12:22:38 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, could you stop mcmap from crashing when something goes wrong in the map-side code?
12:23:08 <Phantom_Hoover> So that it just becomes a pipe between the server and client?
12:23:34 <fizzie> Well, I *could* just ignore broken chunk-updates, it's just that I'd rather fix the bugs and this forces me to do it.
12:24:07 <fizzie> But yes, you can even probably do that by changing the die-macro to do some sort of thread-suicide instead of exit(1).
12:25:13 <fizzie> If you want to try that, change the exit(1) in main.c:do_die into g_thread_exit(NULL).
12:26:22 <fizzie> Though you'll probably end up running out of memory at some point because it'll keep pushing "interesting" packets into the "hey, look at these" queue, and there's then no-one at the other end to take care of them.
12:27:07 <fizzie> File an issue in github if you want me to add a "try to fail so that we just disable the map and keep forwarding packets" feature. :p
12:30:36 <fizzie> (Shouldn't be that hard. Just a status flag to see if the packet-inspection thread is running, single if (not) continue; in the packet-forwarding loop, and that's about it.)
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14:16:58 <Ilari> Heh... Why does white flour exist? Really, why the step to white flour done?
14:23:05 <Ilari> White rice is quite understandable, but what about white wheat flour?
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14:59:24 <oerjan> 04:13:31 * Phantom_Hoover discovers that the Reader monad is the same as the (->) monad.
14:59:27 <oerjan> 04:13:34 <Phantom_Hoover> My mind is blown.
14:59:48 <oerjan> do you know Writer is the same as a (,) monad?
15:00:00 <oerjan> (not one usually defined though)
15:00:12 * oerjan waits for Phantom_Hoover's head to explode
15:02:30 <oerjan> 06:16:58 <Ilari> Heh... Why does white flour exist? Really, why the step to white flour done?
15:02:35 <oerjan> interesting question
15:04:24 <oerjan> and not only that, afaiu bread is cheaper the more white flour it contains
15:04:38 <oerjan> which might somehow explain the why, i guess
15:06:47 * oerjan reads http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour
15:08:33 <oerjan> "The reason for the limited shelf life is the fatty acids of the germ, which react from the moment they are exposed to oxygen. This occurs when grain is milled; the fatty acids oxidize and flour starts to become rancid. Depending on climate and grain quality, this process takes six to nine months. In the late 19th century, this process was too short for an industrial production and distribution cycle. As vitamins, micro nutrients and amino acids were co
15:09:09 <oerjan> completely or relatively unknown in the late 19th century, removing the germ was a brilliant solution."
15:09:46 <oerjan> Ilari: looks like the likely culprit there...
15:10:43 <Ilari> Then some article has a pitch about "health benefits" of whole grain products. HRT, anyone?
15:11:22 <oerjan> well _today_ we have less problem handling whole grain than in the 19th century i assume
15:11:44 <oerjan> but it might still be more expensive to do so
15:12:00 <oerjan> *of a problem
15:12:26 <Ilari> Basically, in epidemiological studies, HRT seemed benefical, but in actual controlled studies, it proved to actually be deadly.
15:12:35 <oerjan> Ilari: ouch
15:12:37 <Ilari> (Hormone Replacement Therapy)
15:13:09 <oerjan> wait you aren't implying whole grain is actually unhealthy?
15:13:37 * oerjan is trying not to eat too fine bread as his stomach gets upset by it
15:13:44 <Ilari> Hah.
15:14:56 <oerjan> "It's worthwhile to note a confusing error: the USDA's Nutrient Data Laboratory (http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/) —and many websites that derive their data from it—show vitamin E as absent in crude wheat germ, this is an error."
15:15:32 <Ilari> And besides, bread isn't a good source of anything besides carbohyrate. The protein in it is junk, it isn't good source of micronutrients (and that's before it screws up absorption of some micronutrients).
15:17:09 <Ilari> Fineli gives 22.1mg per 100g of vitamin E in wheat germ (this is wheat germ, not whole grain wheat!)
15:18:01 <Ilari> Fresly ground wheat flour gives 0.4mg per 100g...
15:18:33 <oerjan> ...brilliant solution. Without the germ, flour cannot become rancid. Degermed flour became standard. Degermation started in densely populated areas and took approximately one generation to reach the countryside."
15:18:39 <Ilari> Some other whole wheat product gives 1.0mg per 100g.
15:19:38 <Vorpal> fizzie, no valgrind error when I reproduced the bug with water. Can't with torch since the the memory usage of the huge surface stretching to somewhere around 4000,4100 + valgrind overhead makes the machine swap trash
15:19:39 <Ilari> And besides, those fibers in bread aren't good either...
15:20:09 <oerjan> "Flour dust suspended in air is explosive -- as is any mixture of a finely powdered flammable substance with air[12] (see flour bomb). Some devastating and fatal explosions have occurred at flour mills, including an explosion in 1878 at the Washburn "A" Mill in Minneapolis, the largest flour mill in the United States at the time."
15:21:05 <Ilari> Of course, there's the gluten sensitivity / celiac disease issue. Celiac disease is real nasty to diagnose (to say nothing about other gluten sensitivity).
15:22:08 <Vorpal> bbl
15:23:24 <oerjan> "Bleached flour is a white flour treated with flour bleaching agents to whiten it (freshly milled flour is yellowish) and to give it more gluten-producing potential."
15:23:44 <Ilari> "Adherer effect" and "I don't give a shit effect" can really mess up results of epidemiological studies...
15:23:56 <oerjan> Ilari: wait what
15:25:15 <Ilari> Basically, the helathines/unhealthiness of something isn't the only factor, also healthiness/unhealthiness of other factors it is associated with will skew the results.
15:26:39 <oerjan> that makes sense
15:27:00 <Ilari> Find people with high consumption of say, whole grain bread and you likely run into health freaks. Find people with high consumption of butter and you likely run into those that don't give a shit about effects of their diet...
15:27:34 <Ilari> (or also low-carbers in the latter group, but those tend to be rare compared to the rest).
15:28:04 <oerjan> Ilari: you seem to be defining me as a health freak, that just doesn't seem _right_ :D
15:28:28 <oerjan> (i avoid both whole bread and usually butter)
15:28:29 <Ilari> Likely... Not that they are...
15:28:40 <oerjan> *fine bread
15:29:34 <Ilari> I'm no fan of butter personally (because I don't have that much use for it)...
15:31:10 <Ilari> I think milkfat is pretty much the only kind of real fat with independent track record...
15:32:09 <oerjan> well until recently i'd been avoiding milk products for a while as i think they upset my stomach a bit
15:32:50 <Ilari> With milk products, it tends to be that the more fat, the less stomach upset...
15:33:13 <Ilari> Of course, there are other factors as well...
15:34:37 <Ilari> Good sign to tell your eating habits are real bad: You get hungry again and "need" a snack few hours after eating...
15:35:25 <oerjan> there are always other factors, with that and this adherer effect you speak of i wonder if we have any _chance_ of finding out what things are really healthy or not (and not just food, but everything in our environment)
15:35:45 <oerjan> maybe there is just too much noise to be able to extract most of the signal
15:37:14 <Ilari> And then there's other stuff as well. One of the largest metastudies on saturated fat concluded (paraphrased): There is no link between saturated fat intake and heart disease, but because of publication bias, we probably overestimated the dangers of saturated fat...
15:37:53 <Ilari> I.e. saturated fat being neutral is likely overestimate of dangers...
15:38:52 <oerjan> Ilari: i had this idea in my head that it should be obligatory to register health studies somewhere _before_ they are done, so that negative results cannot be completely lost due to publication bias
15:39:22 <Ilari> That's the way it is done with clinical trials.
15:39:55 <oerjan> ah.
15:41:14 <Ilari> Did real nasty things with efforts to make statins seem effective...
15:42:17 <oerjan> good :D
15:42:28 <oerjan> i guess the system is better than i thought, then
15:42:30 <Ilari> BTW: Graph with total mortality vs. cholesterol will express better than words how much current guidelines on TC have to do with reality (none at all).
15:42:52 <oerjan> TC?
15:42:58 <Ilari> Total Cholesterol.
15:43:45 <Ilari> The upper end of reference range is in FALLING edge of U curve! If you reach the bottom (of course, this is just correlations), your doctor will complain about your cholesterol...
15:43:56 * oerjan finishes his fish and macaroni
15:44:50 <Ilari> Oh, and FFS, Sugar is not a saturated fat...
15:46:05 <Ilari> The ability to public health persons and nutrion researchers to confuse diffrent macronutrients is incredible...
15:46:32 <Ilari> That sugar and saturated fat confusion is just the most common one.
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15:52:14 * oerjan guesses today's square root of minus garfield was eventually inevitable
15:53:35 <oerjan> (warning: not pretty)
15:54:07 <oerjan> oh it's not the first either
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16:14:43 <elliott> 22:56:56 <quintopia> who are you Gracenotes
16:14:49 <elliott> quintopia: someone who's been in here longer than you
16:15:10 <oerjan> The Ghost of Esolangs Past
16:25:52 <Gracenotes> maybe I left during that one period when we didn't discuss anything marginally related to esolangs
16:26:30 <elliott> Gracenotes: let us refer to that period, as "always"
16:26:44 <Gracenotes> precisely my dear ehird
16:26:47 <elliott> Gracenotes: right now hot topics are minecraft and scapegoat :-P
16:27:09 <Gracenotes> ah yes, the countless hours I have wasted with minecraft
16:27:18 <oerjan> later we'll pass on to minegoats and spacecraft
16:27:23 <Gracenotes> ...the countless seconds I have saved not looking up scapegoat
16:27:27 <Gracenotes> *checks*
16:27:33 <elliott> Gracenotes: good luck with that
16:27:59 <elliott> Gracenotes: scapegoat is ais523's plasmaware version control system that I'm trying to upgrade to vapourware and, maybe, one day, solidware.
16:28:23 <Gracenotes> where is ais523?
16:28:48 <elliott> Gracenotes: erm, presumably doing things that don't involve #esoteric, right this second :P
16:29:14 <oerjan> i have this vague impression he tends not to be here during weekends much
16:29:41 <Gracenotes> huh, no kidding.. this is his wikipedia editing chart nowadays. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_user_ais523%27s_edit_times.png
16:30:12 <elliott> Gracenotes: he's pretty much left wikipedia, afaiu
16:30:21 <elliott> well, he de-sysopped himself
16:30:29 <oerjan> Gracenotes: that graph is from 2007
16:30:30 <elliott> oerjan: yeah i don't think he has internet at home
16:30:39 <oerjan> elliott: i vaguely recall that too
16:30:43 <Gracenotes> well.. same principles
16:30:50 <Gracenotes> compare with e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_user_Gurch%27s_edit_times.png
16:30:59 <Gracenotes> yeah, I haven't touched Wikipedia in a while either
16:31:17 <elliott> Gracenotes: well let's put it this way, the only times ais mentions wikipedia now are to try and explain why it's so terribly fucked up :)
16:31:29 <oerjan> although i'm sure i've seen him _some_ on weekends
16:31:30 <Gracenotes> hah
16:31:55 <elliott> oerjan: I think he comes in when he'sat other people's houses
16:31:57 <elliott> *he's at
16:32:05 <oerjan> huh
16:32:19 <Gracenotes> also wat, wikimedia has raised 10M dollars
16:32:33 <Gracenotes> some effective campaign this has been
16:32:36 <Gracenotes> some effective campaign this has been
16:32:54 <Gracenotes> er.. sorry.. reaching over keyboard for falling mouse
16:33:11 <oerjan> Gracenotes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ais523 shows no activity since november
16:33:43 <elliott> yeah those ads are beyond irritating
16:33:53 <Gracenotes> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Gracenotes shows no activity since May
16:34:01 <elliott> ...and also the amount they need has been increasing suspiciously far more than wikipedia has been growing
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16:34:29 <elliott> also, I don't really want to donate with the such close ties to Wikia, which I abhor...
16:35:27 <Gracenotes> they made a killing-ehirds-family wikia, didn't they
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16:36:14 <elliott> Gracenotes: No... but they have continually fucked over many wikis, including some I know the founders of, in VERY sleazy ways.
16:36:33 <elliott> Gracenotes: For instance: registering [wikiname].com and .net and refusing to give them over; redirecting them to the Wikia wiki, saying it's to "protect their brand" or some shit.
16:37:07 <elliott> Gracenotes: And whenever a wiki wants to move, they like to remove all notices it has been removed and fork off the wiki into their own graveyard that people can't find the real wiki from.
16:37:19 <elliott> As well as a lot of censorship and hullabaloo over their utterly unreadable new skin...
16:37:51 <elliott> Gracenotes: Anyway, even if I liked Wikia, it's still a blatant conflict of interest.
16:37:59 <Gracenotes> yeah... some wikis on there flourish, but wikis are supposed to be about the long tail...
16:38:25 <Gracenotes> the ones with autonomy and room to grow are the ones that were there from near the beginning
16:38:42 <Gracenotes> and uncyclopedia, well, they probably have the most autonomy
16:39:15 <elliott> Gracenotes: http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Quick! Can you tell that nethackwiki has been abandoned and moved at first glance?
16:39:28 <elliott> Who knows how long that news post will be allowed to stay -- Wikia staff said they'd allow it for a certain time but then remove it.
16:39:30 <elliott> (Seriously.)
16:39:44 <Gracenotes> (old site) in title?
16:39:51 <elliott> Gracenotes: Yeah, I don't think that will last...
16:39:58 <elliott> (and who looks at the title bar any more?)
16:40:09 <Gracenotes> when you're on slow internet and it loads first
16:40:20 <Gracenotes> hm. I dislike how minecraft on linux forgets custom key configs when you restart it.
16:40:34 <elliott> Everything they've said on issues like this makes perfect sense if you accept this: "The founders of a Wikia wiki do not own that wiki. The entire community of a Wikia wiki do not own that wiki. Wikia owns that wiki, and the entire community moving out and abandoning ship is immaterial to the Wikia wiki."
16:40:36 <Gracenotes> R FOR INVENTORY, T FOR DROP
16:40:49 <elliott> which is... rather /not/ what most people expect when signing up, I imagine
16:40:53 <elliott> Gracenotes: erm save in .nethackrc?
16:41:14 <Gracenotes> ...there really is a .nethackrc? heh.
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16:41:42 <elliott> Gracenotes: ...
16:41:46 <elliott> Gracenotes: you play nethack and don't have a nethackrc?
16:41:52 <elliott> Gracenotes: but what do you have boulders as???
16:42:03 <Gracenotes> I don't play nethack. I play minecraft.
16:42:10 <elliott> oh MINECRAFT okay
16:42:11 <elliott> erm
16:42:17 <elliott> i misread
16:42:17 <elliott> :D
16:42:20 <elliott> due to context
16:42:26 <elliott> Gracenotes: I don't think minecraft has custom key configs.
16:42:26 <elliott> does it?
16:42:53 <Gracenotes> it does. until a few weeks ago it remembered them upon closing
16:43:03 <elliott> Gracenotes: oh yes, I remember, it does
16:43:08 <elliott> never changed them though
16:43:17 <elliott> r for inventory sounds nice
16:45:33 <Gracenotes> it's the season that I'm getting dissertation/doctorate defense notices in the mail from my university CS department.
16:45:39 <Gracenotes> *in the email
16:45:48 <Gracenotes> apparently receptions only follow *successful* defenses. funny that.
16:51:40 <elliott> Gracenotes: you should be on our mc server :|
16:52:05 <Gracenotes> how busy tis
16:52:39 <elliott> Gracenotes: um ineiros fizzie nailor (just zis guy, you know?) Vorpal (alas) Phantom_Hoover Deewiant and me.
16:52:41 <elliott> not very busy at all.
16:52:48 <elliott> mostly 0-3 people online :P
16:52:55 <elliott> Gracenotes: although health is turned off. you have been warned.
16:53:13 <elliott> and preparing for being on fire rather more than is strictly necessary is probably a good idea
16:53:56 <Gracenotes> health turned off? as in, there's no damage?
16:54:13 <elliott> Gracenotes: yep. it used to be that way, but notch decided it was a bug and fixed it, so we put it back.
16:54:14 <elliott> :p
16:54:29 <elliott> Gracenotes: let's put it this way, getting places is a /lot/ more convenient if you can just jump off tall buildings.
16:54:35 <Gracenotes> yes, I played extensively on a server before the health update
16:54:54 <elliott> also, the Temple of Doom's purifying lava bath didn't last nearly long enough to cleanse your body and soul with health on.
16:54:55 <Gracenotes> jumping off superstructures etc. but despite no damage, my stomach still turns every time I do it
16:55:07 <elliott> Gracenotes: stay away from the Stairs then
16:55:10 <Gracenotes> but you can hardly see anything underlava
16:55:13 <elliott> Gracenotes: (two stairs from max alt to near level 0)
16:55:22 <elliott> also, that doesn't matter; you swim up a glass tube
16:55:24 <Gracenotes> elliott: didn't say it wasn't fun though
16:55:47 <Gracenotes> I set up a water elevator on my server, it worked despite buggy boat physics
16:55:49 <elliott> Gracenotes: anyway if you want in ask ineiros, he's the admin
16:55:57 <elliott> Gracenotes: Vorpal has two boat elevators or so
16:56:03 <elliott> they are rather easy to break
16:56:14 <Gracenotes> water ladders are much more fun
16:56:15 <elliott> (for instance, here's one method: "press A or D while in the boat")
16:56:21 <elliott> Gracenotes: water ladders? how does that even work?
16:56:26 <Gracenotes> okay.. less fun, more useful
16:56:40 <Gracenotes> well. a bug in water physics probably
16:56:49 <Gracenotes> it lets you climb at 3x the speed of normal ladders
16:57:02 <elliott> that sounds very useful.
16:57:03 <Gracenotes> OMG I FOUND A PUMPKIN PATCH
16:57:15 -!- hagb4rd has changed nick to hagb4rd|afk.
16:57:19 <elliott> Gracenotes: our server is pre-halloween, so people go off on pumpkin expeditions all the time :P
16:57:37 <elliott> ok so people=Vorpal and all the time=occasionally
16:58:38 <elliott> Gracenotes: i hate how tools regenerating is going to be fixed :(
16:58:39 <elliott> in SMP
16:59:10 <Gracenotes> it already is fixed
16:59:22 <Gracenotes> ..ain't it
16:59:24 <elliott> Gracenotes: no it isn't
16:59:29 <elliott> throw, pick back up again, woohoo
16:59:42 <elliott> it's going to be fixed with server-side inventory (suggesting that the current form is *client-side* inventory: wow just wow)
16:59:44 <Gracenotes> it means you actually have to look for *resources* goldarn it
16:59:55 <elliott> oh well, we'll just use hMod to put it back >:)
16:59:58 <elliott> Gracenotes: hey we have enough of that already
17:00:04 <Gracenotes> which you have to do anyway if you forget to drop it
17:00:07 <elliott> Gracenotes: but making diamond tools all the time is waay too expensive :P
17:00:10 <Gracenotes> which I have done many, many a time. even with diamonds.
17:00:19 <elliott> well, i've never done that
17:00:21 <elliott> see a brain doctor :P
17:00:42 <elliott> anyway yes ineiros is the man.
17:02:46 <Gracenotes> I had root on the box my previous server was on. I also had physical access to it. unfortunately, 2/3 disks failed on RAID.. 1, I think
17:03:14 <elliott> Gracenotes: our "box" is a computer in ineiros's home :P
17:03:27 <elliott> and yes, exactly the same things happen when he torrents as you'd expect.
17:03:29 <elliott> we're low-fi, man.
17:03:32 <elliott> authentic.
17:03:37 <elliott> we're recording minecraft on cassette.
17:03:58 <Gracenotes> groovy
17:04:25 <Vorpal> elliott, seems I have AA off in MC. I tried forcing it on (it turned out the settings were not what I thought they were) and it causes rendering issues
17:04:37 <Vorpal> as in, white lines at the edges of flat textures
17:04:42 <elliott> yeah i heard about that
17:04:44 <elliott> sucks :(
17:04:54 <Gracenotes> for some reason I'm listening to My Chemical Romance. I feel like I'm 16 again.
17:05:12 <Vorpal> elliott, actually I'm not surprised if it is using one image for several textures
17:05:29 <elliott> why does this even exist
17:05:42 <elliott> dude everyone who plays minecraft hates you
17:05:43 <Gracenotes> he always does ludum dare
17:05:45 <elliott> what are you even doing
17:06:11 <elliott> stop doing whatever you're doing and fix the myriad bugs you bastard
17:06:17 <elliott> i'll punch you
17:08:40 <Vorpal> elliott, the basic structure of SMP (Sustainable Minecraft Project) is done btw
17:08:52 <Vorpal> what remains is to flesh it out
17:09:04 <elliott> Vorpal: i, Metropolis, am going to come and civilise the fuck out of your people
17:09:07 <elliott> Vorpal: expect smallpox.
17:09:13 <Vorpal> elliott, :P
17:09:30 <Vorpal> elliott, I expect you are careful next to the non-windowed lava lighting systems
17:09:45 <Vorpal> which depends on on lava flowing down to lower alt
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17:10:01 <Vorpal> elliott, placing blocks in the wrong places could result in severe problems
17:10:21 <Vorpal> elliott, I use enternal-log-fire in a few places
17:10:22 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:10:24 <elliott> "What else do I have? A sword, some gravel, a bucket of water… a bucket of water! The deadliest weapon of all!" --Tom Francis
17:10:28 <elliott> Vorpal: *eternal
17:10:28 <Vorpal> eternal*
17:10:41 <Vorpal> hah, beat you to it (same second though)
17:10:41 <elliott> "He has the saddest face, as the current drags him away from me and I quickly lay down a barrier in case he can overpower it. He can’t, he just thrashes armlessly as he stares miserably into my eyes, drifting slowly backwards."
17:10:58 -!- Gracenotes_ has changed nick to Gracenotes.
17:11:01 <Vorpal> elliott, a creeper?
17:11:05 <elliott> yes
17:14:16 <elliott> OK, I swear to god I will now write a Lisp interpreter in 150 to 200 lines of C code, including a reader.
17:14:25 <Gracenotes> you have monsters turned on right
17:14:31 <Gracenotes> ..killable monsters
17:15:41 <elliott> Gracenotes: well, not enemy mobs. :p
17:15:52 <elliott> they'd just be irritating, since they couldn't do anything
17:16:01 <Deewiant> I wouldn't mind creepers
17:16:17 <Gracenotes> yeah.. you need monsters for real. they're something new in SMP I haven't played with before.
17:18:11 <elliott> Gracenotes: ask ineiros :P
17:18:26 <elliott> Gracenotes: i think the creepers might make the way into the underground minecart system though.
17:18:30 <elliott> which would be. irritating.
17:18:33 <elliott> *their
17:18:40 <Gracenotes> torches torches everywhere
17:18:50 <elliott> Gracenotes: old mine gigantic old mine everywhere connected to the minecart syste
17:18:51 <elliott> m
17:18:53 <elliott> *system
17:19:08 <elliott> also open-air exit/entries
17:19:14 <elliott> *exits
17:19:25 <Gracenotes> hm. have security checkpoints. ;.;
17:19:44 <elliott> Gracenotes: it would be fun to have Creeper Wednesdays with monsters, pvp and health turned on or something
17:21:20 <elliott> So, the raw price of Minecraft times the number of sales = £6.76 million pounds.
17:21:26 <elliott> I think PayPal deducts 20% or so.
17:21:45 <elliott> So £5.4 million or so.
17:21:50 <elliott> Notch is one motherfucking rich bastard.
17:25:27 -!- jsaasch has joined.
17:28:05 <elliott> Vorpal: you know the locations you scouted fort he cube?
17:28:07 <elliott> *fort he
17:28:08 <elliott> *fort he
17:28:10 <elliott> *for the
17:28:13 -!- jsaasch has quit (Client Quit).
17:28:17 <Deewiant> *fort he
17:28:22 <elliott> Fort, he!
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17:29:23 <elliott> Vorpal: I presume the only cobble in SMP will be from a factory.
17:32:32 <elliott> "Luckily, I discover after three minutes of tactical standing still, this particular Creeper is too stupid to move."
17:38:15 <Vorpal> elliott, yes or that which is excavated to make room for the rooms (no pun intended)
17:38:25 <Vorpal> elliott, throwing it away would be kind of pointless
17:38:27 <elliott> Vorpal: that's not sustainable, dude
17:38:32 <elliott> build houses only in existing indents in hills
17:38:49 <Vorpal> elliott, that would leave a large above-ground footprint
17:39:00 <elliott> Vorpal: you prefer non-sustainability?
17:39:30 <Vorpal> elliott, it isn't non-sustainable, I used existing dirt for tree plantation (just moved it around, less than 5 blocks in all cases)
17:39:52 <Vorpal> elliott, it will be sustainable because it won't need to grow, thus it will be a fixed, finite cost
17:40:14 <elliott> Vorpal: it's more damaging to hollow out the ground than to build small, perishable structures in indents of hills
17:40:18 <Vorpal> elliott, since there will be capping to make the population sustainable
17:40:39 <elliott> Vorpal: you're going to kill people when they reach 21? :p
17:40:54 <Vorpal> elliott, no, I do it like China or something
17:41:03 <elliott> ah. emulating china. always a good idea
17:41:08 <elliott> Vorpal: so forced abortions then
17:41:12 <Vorpal> quite!
17:41:17 <elliott> Vorpal: you got sustainable coat hangers?
17:41:27 <Vorpal> elliott, but your suggestion reduces natural habitats for various threatened animals living in the ecosystem in indents of hills!
17:41:32 <Vorpal> elliott, how can you possibly support this
17:41:44 <elliott> don't build doors and put animal food in the houses, duh
17:41:48 <elliott> live in peace with the mobs
17:42:04 <Vorpal> elliott, alas, that won't work, considering they need untainted nature
17:42:09 <elliott> Vorpal: all you need to do is build a small box of wood with one side open
17:42:12 <elliott> you can leave the grass floor
17:42:20 <elliott> you could even open up the ceiling apart from one block border around
17:42:23 <elliott> to let the light in
17:42:29 <elliott> and then just build sustainable things for living in the corners
17:42:47 <Vorpal> elliott, I specifically avoid existing caves btw to not taint the underground ecosystems
17:42:50 <elliott> Vorpal: or, better: do it in the relative dark -- not so much that you'll need extra lighting, but nowhere that animals would be attracted to
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17:44:15 <Vorpal> hm
17:44:50 <Vorpal> elliott, what about animals allergic to wood then?
17:45:08 <Vorpal> (I think we jumped the shark)
17:45:26 <elliott> Vorpal: they will stay away, since it's not in the light
17:45:36 <elliott> Vorpal: in fact, what you could do is put some lava lighting above an area just a bit away from the house
17:45:39 <elliott> just floating in the air
17:45:45 <elliott> that way, animals will go there, not to your house
17:46:06 <Vorpal> elliott, and they will burn
17:46:08 <Vorpal> poor them
17:46:15 <elliott> Vorpal: no?
17:46:17 <elliott> the lava is in the air
17:46:43 <elliott> Vorpal: in fact, you could even shield them from the upsetting image of lava... put cobble stairs on the top and bottom
17:46:46 <elliott> (they let light through)
17:47:02 <Vorpal> hm
17:47:19 <Vorpal> elliott, the aesthetics police would be after me then
17:48:10 <elliott> Vorpal: find a natural flat space surrounded by mountains so that not many mobs make it in
17:48:24 <elliott> Vorpal: build a fence around the space not occupied by animals, and say two to four doors around it
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17:48:33 <elliott> Vorpal: tada, you can build sustainably without worrying about the animals
17:50:52 <elliott> ok, reddit has officially denigrated to saying "lol, stop making excuses for wanting free shit!" to anyone who dares to question incredibly strong copyright in any way
17:50:59 <elliott> fuck this shit.
17:51:18 <Vorpal> elliott, I thought you liked reddit?
17:51:45 <Deewiant> I like how you use "reddit" to describe every single user
17:52:50 <elliott> Deewiant: i like that too!
17:52:59 <elliott> Deewiant: actually i'm just sick of the general quality of the comments. uh, and posts.
17:53:08 <elliott> Vorpal: I /did/, circa 2007
17:53:25 <Deewiant> Unsubscribe from shitty subreddits
17:53:49 <Vorpal> elliott, so which one do you like now?
17:54:06 <elliott> Deewiant: Name a non-shitty programming/CS-related subreddit.
17:54:15 <Gracenotes> HASKELL
17:54:16 <Deewiant> /r/coding?
17:54:29 <Gracenotes> FOREVER
17:59:09 <Gracenotes> OMG DIMINS
18:00:02 <elliott> Deewiant: /r/coding is terrible.
18:00:21 <elliott> Deewiant: Its front page spans a whole half year.
18:00:38 <elliott> Deewiant: And it misses a lot of the interesting stuff *actually in* /r/programming.
18:00:46 <elliott> Deewiant: Oh, and Jon Harrop is on the case:
18:00:47 <elliott> "Building a business with Haskell: Case Studies: Cryptol, HaLVM and Copilot"
18:00:49 <elliott> -->
18:00:57 <elliott> "Off-topic for /r/coding and you already posted it to /r/programming as well as /r/haskell." -- Jon "Colostomy Bag" Harrop
18:01:12 <Deewiant> Pick quality xor quantity.
18:02:49 <elliott> Deewiant: /r/programming = quality + crap; /r/coding = fewer quality + fewer crap + very slow
18:02:59 <elliott> + still has crap
18:03:05 <elliott> Slashdot = Slashdot
18:03:10 <elliott> ??? = ???
18:03:19 <Deewiant> Hacker News = Hacker News
18:03:29 <Deewiant> /r/compsci = /r/compsci
18:03:51 <elliott> Deewiant: Hacker News = Quality + irritating startup asswipes + irritating startup asswipe posts
18:04:01 <Gracenotes> but.. didn't you hear.. hacker news is turning into reddit???!?!?!?!?!?111!?!!1oneone
18:04:02 <elliott> (If I could filter out the business bullshit from HN I'd read it exclusively.)
18:04:37 <elliott> Deewiant: /r/compsci = Nice reading, perhaps, but not really the same thing as the others.
18:04:48 <elliott> Lots of questions, not really many actual interesting posts.
18:05:21 <Deewiant> You can't have everything
18:05:41 <elliott> Deewiant: Yes I can, see: /r/programming circa 2007.
18:05:50 <Deewiant> You can't have everything permanently
18:06:17 <elliott> Deewiant: There's no inherent reason why it went to shit. Anyway I would be fine if people just kept cloning /r/programming every 2 years or so. :p
18:06:25 <Vorpal> elliott, see mc
18:06:50 <Deewiant> /r/coding is a clone; as you've noted it didn't take off
18:08:49 <elliott> Deewiant: I mean on something that isn't reddit. :p
18:09:04 <Deewiant> It doesn't matter where it is if it doesn't take off
18:09:48 <elliott> Deewiant: Well, yes.
18:10:02 <elliott> Deewiant: I meant clone as in clone and take users. :p
18:10:20 <Deewiant> Nontrivial.
18:10:36 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:10:38 <elliott> Deewiant: It was a hypothetical.
18:11:10 <Deewiant> In the meanwhile, just read whatever and downvote and hide the crap
18:11:33 -!- wareya has joined.
18:12:15 <Deewiant> If the amount bothers you too much, stick to low-traffic places
18:12:20 <elliott> Deewiant: But I have so much laze within me, dude.
18:12:21 <elliott> So much laze.
18:12:35 <elliott> Anyway "downvote and hide" is a rather more tedious policy with comments. :p
18:12:57 <Deewiant> Not really
18:13:39 <elliott> Deewiant: Consider that bad comments often have good replies.
18:14:00 <Deewiant> No, not "often". Rarely.
18:14:59 <elliott> Deewiant: Well, fine, but I can't stop myself reading them anyway. :p
18:15:07 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Latest github version should make the -3 bug non-fatal; if it hits, it should just freeze all map updates, but the packet-forwarding (and GUI stuff, but that's... less useful when it won't see the traffic) side should continue working.
18:15:14 <fizzie> I do need to actually fix the bug too, of course.
18:15:15 <Deewiant> If you are drawn to crap, don't complain that it exists.
18:15:45 <elliott> Deewiant: But I like complaining.
18:18:09 <Vorpal> elliott, we know...
18:18:30 <elliott> Indeed. But evidently not Deewiant ... either that or he just wants to complain about my complaining, which I can support :P
18:19:02 <Deewiant> I just have a vain hope that you'd stop complaining
18:19:54 <elliott> Deewiant: Alack, alack, alack, my complaints are unstoppable.
18:22:28 -!- Eva_Earlong has joined.
18:24:36 <Eva_Earlong> hi cheaters
18:27:43 <elliott> Eva_Earlong: Cheaters?
18:27:54 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
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18:31:44 <pikhq> I neither *am* a cheater no do I *wear* cheaters.
18:31:47 <pikhq> </archaicisim>
18:33:20 <elliott> pikhq: let fib=(fix$(0:).(zipWith(+)=<<(1:)))!!
18:33:22 <elliott> pikhq: Golf.
18:33:47 <Deewiant> elliott: Needs more ()
18:33:48 <Vorpal> elliott, see mc...
18:34:16 <elliott> Deewiant: Feel fee to donate it more ()s :P
18:34:32 <Deewiant> elliott: You need to wrap the whole thing in ()
18:34:41 <elliott> Deewiant: No you don't.
18:34:45 <Deewiant> elliott: Yes you do.
18:35:03 <elliott> Oh, so you do.
18:35:04 <pikhq> elliott: Very nice... Hmm.
18:35:05 <elliott> DAMMIT SCIENCE
18:35:14 <elliott> Then
18:35:14 <elliott> fib=(!!)$fix$(0:).(zipWith(+)=<<(1:))
18:35:15 <elliott> Is shorter.
18:35:45 <pikhq> elliott: I don't think the partially applied !! works like that without more parens, in the first, though.
18:35:50 <elliott> pikhq: Yeah, thus
18:35:51 <elliott> fib=(!!)$fix$(0:).(zipWith(+)=<<(1:))
18:36:02 <elliott> BTW: This is both memoised and O(n).
18:36:03 <pikhq> Yeah, that's just fine and shorter.
18:36:37 * pikhq tries to think of a shorter way of generating that list...
18:36:52 <Vorpal> elliott, you made an attack in MC, that you then did not justify, care to justify it either there or here?
18:37:18 <Deewiant> elliott: fib=(!!)$fix((0:).scanl(+)1)
18:37:36 <elliott> Vorpal: (1) You are incredibly paranoid to call that an "attack"; (2) you often call other people cheaters yet didn't blink an eye at discussing the precise implementation of a definite cheat method (one I have no problem with); I found this hypocrisy amusing.
18:37:42 <elliott> Deewiant: Nice.
18:37:53 <elliott> Deewiant: fib=(!!)$fix$(0:).scanl(+)1
18:37:55 <elliott> Deewiant: That was easy :P
18:38:00 <pikhq> *grin*
18:38:01 <Vorpal> elliott, I don't remember calling other cheaters, and which method did you mean?
18:38:18 <Deewiant> elliott: I didn't really optimize it, but scanl anyway. :-P
18:38:22 <elliott> Vorpal: Clearly you have a terrible memory, as you've called me a cheater plenty a time; and I meant the teleportation.
18:38:29 <elliott> Deewiant: Yeah, but needless parens!
18:38:58 <Vorpal> elliott, hm, not sure I consider it cheating, if the server is badly coded enough to accept it
18:39:28 <Vorpal> coded badly enough*
18:39:34 <elliott> Vorpal: You called plenty of server-allowed things cheating before.
18:39:38 <elliott> e.g. duplication bugs.
18:40:13 <Deewiant> elliott: The bracket-heavy version (fix((0:).scanl(+)1)!!) is the same length, FWIW.
18:40:29 <elliott> Deewiant: Pah!
18:40:32 <Vorpal> elliott, well, I changed my mind about that
18:40:37 <Deewiant> Shouldn't have written it with the prefix-(!!) in the first place. :-P
18:40:45 <elliott> Vorpal: I see. And when was this? Five minutes ago...?
18:40:47 <Vorpal> elliott, once I learnt that it was due to crappy code
18:40:51 <Vorpal> elliott, a few days ago
18:40:55 <elliott> You definitely said that PH would be a cheater to use duplicated TNT yesterday.
18:40:57 <elliott> Or the day before.
18:41:31 <Vorpal> elliott, I said it would scare me, and I don't support that usage. But not cheating, rather it's making use of bugs
18:44:17 -!- Eva_Earlong has left (?).
19:01:07 <pikhq> Huh. Villa Las Estrellas. It's the only civilian settlement on Antartica. Not a research station, it's just a freaking town.
19:03:25 -!- Eva_Earlong has joined.
19:07:36 <Slereah> Is that antartica itself or a closeby island?
19:13:06 <pikhq> Antartica itself.
19:13:12 <elliott> Vorpal: I mean something like http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/274/0/6/realistic_minecraft_icon_by_triquetraclover-d2ztxky.png
19:13:16 <elliott> Vorpal: except, less realistic dirt
19:13:19 <elliott> and without the stone
19:13:28 <elliott> Vorpal: i.e., something as "cartoony" (except not really) as the original, just HD... not realistic
19:13:42 <elliott> Vorpal: Ore would still look the same, just moar pixels.
19:13:51 <elliott> Diamond blocks would still look as non-diamondy as they do, just moar pixels.
19:13:57 <Vorpal> elliott, hah
19:14:29 -!- Eva_Earlong has left (?).
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19:25:31 <pikhq> God. People do Let's Plays of Persona 3.
19:25:55 <pikhq> (Persona 3 is a ridiculously long JRPG. A speedy playthrough is 60 hours.)
19:27:00 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:27:10 <pikhq> (also, it's in the series that *invented* the "gotta catch 'em all" mechanics of Pokemon)
19:38:09 <ais523> pikhq: context?
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19:48:04 <Vorpal> elliott, down?
19:48:21 <elliott> ais523: <pikhq> God. People do Let's Plays of Persona 3.
19:48:21 <elliott> <pikhq> (Persona 3 is a ridiculously long JRPG. A speedy playthrough is 60 hours.)
19:51:01 <pikhq> Yeah...
19:51:28 * pikhq is currently 53 hours into a playthrough.
19:51:38 <pikhq> This may end up being a really speedy 100% run.
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20:08:50 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> You definitely said that PH would be a cheater to use duplicated TNT yesterday.
20:08:56 <Phantom_Hoover> I had duplicated TNT?
20:09:12 <Phantom_Hoover> I made 1 block, and once I used it I had no duplicates.
20:09:19 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You didn't.
20:09:26 <elliott> Vorpal just decided that it was a posibility.
20:09:28 <elliott> *possibility.
20:09:32 <elliott> pikhq: you've watched it for 53 hours? :p
20:09:38 <Phantom_Hoover> On what grounds?
20:09:39 <oerjan> you had singulated TNT, you cheater!
20:10:19 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You're a filthy cheater?
20:10:20 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, on the grounds that it could be done
20:10:31 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, not saying you had
20:10:43 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, it was a misinterpretation of what elliott told me
20:11:14 * oerjan is a murderer. hey, it could be done...
20:11:54 <pikhq> elliott: No, I've *played* it for that long.
20:12:00 <elliott> pikhq: Ah.
20:12:08 <elliott> oerjan: you expect that to /not/ go way over Vorpal's head? :D
20:12:35 <oerjan> elliott: i did not consider that issue.
20:13:23 <Vorpal> elliott, of course it doesn't go over my head. It went below my feet
20:13:31 <Vorpal> (due to not watching irc)
20:16:18 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
20:18:04 <pikhq> Okay, this might take less time than I thought to finish.
20:18:07 <pikhq> GAME BREAKER GET!
20:18:20 <ais523> deliberate game breaker? or a glitch?
20:18:35 <pikhq> Defeat boss before it gets a turn!
20:18:54 <pikhq> Thank you, Odin!
20:20:03 <pikhq> And no, this is not the infinity-plus-one sword, just an unintended consequence of game mechanics.
20:20:26 <Phantom_Hoover> How?
20:20:44 <pikhq> Thunder Reign + Elec Amp + Elec Boost + max magic.
20:21:19 <pikhq> Voila, defeat everyone while seriously underleveled.
20:22:35 <pikhq> The infinity-plus-one sword, BTW, just one-shots all but one enemy in the game... But you can only get it at the very end. Literally level 98.
20:23:53 <coppro> what game?
20:24:20 <pikhq> Persona 3 FES
20:24:37 <coppro> oh
20:24:38 <coppro> bleh
20:25:07 <pikhq> I highly recommend it, but note that it's long and hard unless you're very clever at abusing the game mechanics.
20:25:28 <coppro> not a fan of Persona
20:25:40 <pikhq> Which game/games have you played, and for how long?
20:29:36 <elliott> pikhq: tetris, for five days (without breaks)
20:29:56 <pikhq> In the series.
20:30:01 <pikhq> elliott: -_-'
20:31:34 * oerjan did a mean tetris back when
20:32:57 <Vorpal> fizzie, waiting for it to connect
20:33:08 <fizzie> Also disconnected, have a typo to fix.
20:33:13 <fizzie> Won't take long.
20:33:16 <Vorpal> fizzie, minecraft.net is down
20:33:22 <fizzie> Ohh.
20:33:31 <fizzie> That could even have caused the invisibility.
20:33:35 <Vorpal> fizzie, maybe
20:33:38 <fizzie> Since the skin-loading won't work.
20:33:42 <Vorpal> 502 bad gateway
20:33:44 <Vorpal> ah
20:33:54 <Vorpal> up again partly
20:33:56 <Vorpal> and down
20:34:27 * oerjan realizes s/when/before ehird was born/
20:34:38 <oerjan> s/ehird/elliott/
20:34:40 <fizzie> Okay, managed to connect now.
20:34:47 <Vorpal> fizzie, I have not
20:35:06 <ais523> I think the longest I've played a game before in a row is probably 12 hours or so, for both Neverwinter Nights and Battle for Wesnoth
20:35:21 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
20:35:33 <Deewiant> Which NWN?
20:35:44 <ais523> 1
20:35:57 <ais523> 2 is a) not as good IMO, and b) doesn't run on Linux
20:36:02 <elliott> oerjan: I played Tetris before they invented computers.
20:36:03 <Deewiant> I mean
20:36:07 <elliott> Abatris.
20:36:08 <Deewiant> Presumably the 2002 one?
20:36:16 <Deewiant> Well, given that you mentioned 1 and 2, yes.
20:36:19 <elliott> Deewiant: "No, the original AOL one!"
20:36:36 <Deewiant> elliott: It's a reasonable question.
20:36:52 <elliott> Deewiant: Not really, since probably three people played the original AOL one :P
20:37:08 <Deewiant> More like tens of thousands.
20:37:11 <elliott> Deewiant: You know why? It went out of business because of people copying floppies.
20:37:13 <elliott> A sad tale.
20:45:30 <Vorpal> fizzie, down or just lagged?
20:45:35 <elliott> I may have made it go down.
20:45:39 <Vorpal> Attempted to place a tile entity where there was no entity tile!
20:45:45 <Vorpal> my mc said that
20:45:46 <elliott> Possibly, my client did not want to download that many chunks.
20:45:48 <Vorpal> elliott, what did you do?
20:45:50 <Vorpal> elliott, ...
20:45:53 <elliott> Vorpal: I might have gone to somewhere.
20:45:57 <Vorpal> elliott, where?
20:46:07 <elliott> It might be a place with 6 digits in its coordinates.
20:46:08 <Vorpal> elliott, if you crashed the server, fuck you idiot
20:46:28 <elliott> Yes, because I could have *easily* known that was going to crash the server, being omniscient.
20:46:40 <elliott> I think it's just uberlagged.
20:46:48 <Vorpal> elliott, yes, when notch is involved it seems likely :P
20:47:27 <elliott> Wait, is it going to generate *every single chunk* between where I was and (100000,100000)?
20:47:32 <fizzie> I just hope it's just a "restart the server" mess and not a "well, restore your world from backups" sort of a mess.
20:47:35 <Vorpal> elliott, yes I think so
20:47:38 <elliott> Because if so, isn't that going to take up like ... gigabytes on the server?
20:47:49 <Vorpal> elliott, ....
20:47:52 <Vorpal> elliott, no it wasn't
20:47:57 <Vorpal> also last backup was days ago
20:48:05 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, what'd you do?
20:48:07 <Phantom_Hoover> And how?
20:48:09 <elliott> It's going to be hung for like five weeks generating masses of terrain that will never be visited. :p
20:48:13 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: //goto 100000 100000
20:48:22 <Phantom_Hoover> O.o
20:48:25 <Vorpal> elliott, iff it did that, then I propose you are banned
20:48:27 <Phantom_Hoover> There's a goto command?
20:48:28 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: We have teleportation in mcmap now, and it's KER-AAAZY
20:48:32 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, in mcmap
20:48:33 <Deewiant> elliott: You could've dropped a 0 from both of those numbers and still got to a new location.
20:48:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Ohhhh.
20:48:39 <elliott> Deewiant: Yes, but.
20:48:48 <Vorpal> elliott, no but
20:48:49 <elliott> Deewiant: I could even *walk* to (4000,4000) from /that/.
20:48:53 <elliott> Deewiant: Which is just boring.
20:48:57 <Vorpal> ....
20:48:59 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, you crazy bastard.
20:49:03 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: *genius
20:49:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: *pioneer
20:49:15 <Phantom_Hoover> *bastard
20:49:15 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, s/bastard/idiotic bastard/
20:49:17 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: *scientist (I was doing an experiment! Everyone died!)
20:49:25 <ais523> there seems to be something very wrong with this game
20:49:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Bastard scientist!
20:49:31 <ais523> if it's causing such chasms in the community
20:49:37 <Vorpal> ais523, hah
20:49:40 <elliott> ais523: Vorpal is the only one who actually gets angry.
20:49:48 <fizzie> ais523: Yes, it's unthinkable that Vorpal and elliott not get along just fine.
20:49:56 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, what's wrong with it is that it was coded by an idiot who had exactly one good idea and then messed it up royally.
20:50:03 <elliott> ais523: To be fair, we are now on the level of blatantly exploiting major bugs :-P
20:50:09 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, you crazy bastard. <elliott> ais523: Vorpal is the only one who actually gets angry.
20:50:16 <Vorpal> elliott, you have Phantom_Hoover on /ignore?
20:50:19 <elliott> ...lol
20:50:24 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You were being totally serious and really hate me now, right?
20:50:36 <Deewiant> Phantom_Hoover: What idea?
20:50:37 <Vorpal> elliott, I think he is annoyed with you
20:50:38 <elliott> I feel like I have lost my only true friend in this sad, cold, thankless world of desolation.
20:50:42 <elliott> Vorpal: I think you think wrong.
20:50:49 <Vorpal> well, time for single player
20:50:50 <fizzie> I think bunnies.
20:50:56 <elliott> Vorpal: OH NO, YOU WERE RIGHT!!
20:50:58 <elliott> OH GOD WHAT WILL I DO
20:51:00 <Vorpal> I doubt that
20:51:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Deewiant, it's called "Minecraft"/
20:51:08 <elliott> I'd better jump out of the window before Phantom_Hoover can unleash his rage on me.
20:51:17 <Phantom_Hoover> WINDOWS WILL NOT SAVE YOU
20:51:20 <Vorpal> ah fun playing with the CPU
20:51:31 <elliott> ais523: Welp, so anyway, until the server stops creating ~31G of maps (well, if uncompressed), scapegoat time!
20:51:39 <elliott> *finishes creating
20:51:39 <Deewiant> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but what part of it is the good idea
20:51:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Deewiant, the bits that are actually *fun*.
20:51:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Bad ideas include: doing it in Java.
20:52:13 <elliott> Oh god, this doggerel battle is impossible.
20:52:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Doing it without knowing the slightest thing about geology.
20:52:28 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Hey now, the geology ignorance is brilliant.
20:52:30 <Vorpal> ineiros, I think elliott just royally fucked up the server
20:52:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Making it steadily more restricted.
20:52:39 <Phantom_Hoover> ineiros, with SCIENCE!
20:52:42 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It's like Mark Doesn't Understand Animals: The Game: The Geology Edition.
20:53:04 <Phantom_Hoover> The science of "hmm, it works with n... BUT DOES IT WORK WITH 10^n?"
20:53:09 <Deewiant> Phantom_Hoover: I was wondering if you could point to any differences between it and, say, Infiniminer.
20:53:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Deewiant, haven't played Infiniminer.
20:53:22 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I didn't try and go to 10^4000. :p
20:53:45 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, who cares about exact geology. I mean, it isn't like the 1x1x1 cubic block of stone unit is very realistic either
20:53:53 <Vorpal> or the carrying capacity of a player
20:53:56 <elliott> Deewiant: I like how all the infiniminer google results point to Minecraft pages.
20:54:01 <Vorpal> or the yield of a sheep
20:54:29 <Deewiant> elliott: Where "all" = "first two"
20:54:38 <elliott> Deewiant: Yup.
20:55:00 <elliott> Back up.
20:55:04 <elliott> Vorpal:
20:55:24 <Vorpal> mhm
20:56:05 <Vorpal> elliott, nope
20:56:09 <Vorpal> elliott, or down again
20:56:17 <elliott> Vorpal: Nope, up.
20:56:17 <Vorpal> elliott, it fails to log in
20:56:20 <Vorpal> elliott, not for me
20:56:26 <Vorpal> ah now
20:56:35 <fizzie> Well, it's very laggy for me.
20:57:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Deewiant, have you played Infiniminer?
20:57:54 <Deewiant> No
20:58:18 <Vorpal> PH!!!!
20:58:20 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: you'll need to "git pull".
20:58:22 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: And re-make.
20:58:24 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, you will dos the server
20:58:28 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, do you want that?
21:01:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It's //goto 100000 100000
21:01:25 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: FWIW, since the chat is lagging.
21:01:41 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Oh, and you need to quit mcmap after it.
21:01:49 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: And reconnect *without* it.
21:01:51 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Okay?
21:02:10 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Also you MUST BE ABLE TO SEE THE SKY when doing it.
21:02:10 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm getting extremely bad lag, FWIW.
21:02:17 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Have you done it yet?
21:04:09 <Vorpal> elliott, it seems pretty much down anyway
21:04:18 <Vorpal> elliott, scenery completely stopped loading for m
21:04:20 <Vorpal> me*
21:04:24 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover?
21:04:28 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, DAMN YOU
21:04:40 <elliott> Did you close mcmap afterwards...?
21:04:43 <Vorpal> elliott, it went down
21:04:44 <Phantom_Hoover> You made it seem like it was actually doable now the server had recovered!
21:04:47 <Vorpal> elliott, as in, timed out
21:04:54 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It will probably be down for a lot shorter time this time.
21:04:56 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, yes he is an utter idiot
21:04:58 <elliott> Since it doesn't actually have to /do/ anything.
21:05:10 <Vorpal> elliott, still this is definitely a DOS
21:05:21 <Deewiant> Does the teleportation send one packet or several?
21:05:24 <ineiros> What.
21:05:24 <elliott> Vorpal: Yes, we're all evil computer spy hackers stopping you get on with your legitimate business work.
21:05:27 <elliott> Deewiant: Thousands.
21:05:30 <elliott> ineiros: We sort of have teleportation now.
21:05:33 <Vorpal> does it actually?
21:05:35 <Vorpal> hm
21:05:35 <elliott> ineiros: And it's SCIENTIFIC!
21:05:39 <fizzie> elliott: I've briefed him in query already.
21:05:46 <Deewiant> elliott: So that could be the cause.
21:05:46 <elliott> fizzie: Mr. President! Mr. President!
21:05:49 <elliott> THE MASSES HAVE WEAPONS
21:05:51 <fizzie> Deewiant: Well, mcmap sends two packets.
21:05:58 <fizzie> Deewiant: What the server does is of course anyone's guess.
21:05:58 <elliott> Oh.
21:06:16 <elliott> I think ineiros is officially sick of us :)
21:06:21 <Vorpal> ineiros, adding those wrap points would have been a good idea, would probably have meant that no one cared to do this hack
21:06:21 <ineiros> What.
21:06:30 <Vorpal> at least of elliott
21:06:32 <Vorpal> ...
21:06:33 <ineiros> I'm just drunk.
21:06:35 <Vorpal> oh
21:06:47 <Vorpal> ...
21:06:51 <elliott> "The tiles are 1 m^3." --Notch, in a YouTube video titled "Cave game tech test", May 2009.
21:06:58 <elliott> Apparently we're all 1.7 m tall, too.
21:07:00 <elliott> Despite being two blocks high,
21:07:01 <elliott> *high.
21:07:10 <Vorpal> elliott, we are not fully 2 blocks high
21:07:14 <elliott> ineiros: I suggest you just leave the server alone and wait for it to recover :P
21:07:17 <ineiros> I'm over 1.8m tall.
21:07:18 <Vorpal> elliott, stand in a 2 m corridor
21:07:23 <Vorpal> ineiros, *in game*
21:07:26 <Vorpal> is what he mant
21:07:27 <elliott> I'm 7m tall.
21:07:28 <Vorpal> meant*
21:07:38 <Vorpal> elliott, he is drunk. Stop confusing him
21:07:39 <ineiros> Me too. :P
21:07:44 <Vorpal> ineiros, you are just nasty now
21:07:44 <elliott> Vorpal apparently thinks drunk people = people who are beyond even stupidity.
21:07:45 <Vorpal> err
21:07:46 <Vorpal> elliott, ^
21:07:48 <elliott> HE MEANT IN GAME DUH
21:07:51 <Vorpal> you are just nasty now elliott
21:08:01 <elliott> Vorpal: Oh man, that's the worst insult I've ever heard from you. I'm going to kill myself.
21:08:06 <elliott> I sob, I sob, I cry.
21:08:20 <Vorpal> elliott, so, will you keep porting to places that bring down the server for several minutes?
21:08:29 <Vorpal> elliott, or will you learn from this mistake?
21:08:42 <elliott> Maybe I will if you keep whining about it. :p
21:08:52 <Vorpal> elliott, no one will like that you know.
21:09:02 <elliott> No one else is whining at me constantly.
21:09:25 <Vorpal> only because you keep acting as if you did nothing wrong
21:10:05 <elliott> fizzie: I think you should hang me, like Saddam.
21:10:13 <elliott> 'Tis only fitting for a DOSing cybercrime-terrorist like I.
21:10:30 <fizzie> In-game, of course.
21:10:48 <fizzie> Maybe with some string, and a hanging thing built out of fenceposts.
21:11:20 <Vorpal> fizzie, not sure how you would get the horizontal bar out
21:11:28 <elliott> 'Tis taking all my willpower to not find the most popular Alpha server and teleport to 2^60 there or so.
21:11:36 <elliott> (Okay, so it's actually taking very little willpower since I wouldn't be anonymous.)
21:11:51 <Vorpal> elliott, would you actually do that if you was anonymous?
21:12:02 <Vorpal> elliott, if so, what sort of moral code do you have
21:12:39 <elliott> Apparently downloading existing chunks is slower than generating them.
21:12:43 <elliott> Who'da thunk it.
21:12:50 <Vorpal> elliott, it need to read from disk
21:12:53 <Vorpal> elliott, or maybe it crashed
21:12:58 <Deewiant> Back up.
21:13:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: COME!
21:13:15 <elliott> COME AND DELIGHT IN THE 100K WITH ME
21:13:41 <Phantom_Hoover> OK!
21:14:03 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Don't use mcmap, you doofus.
21:14:15 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It can't handle >64k maps.
21:14:18 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Connect directly.
21:14:57 -!- zzo38 has joined.
21:19:25 <Vorpal> ineiros, there?
21:20:36 <Vorpal> ineiros, tp request to ehird
21:20:48 <elliott> It booted my client ...
21:20:55 <Vorpal> elliott, no it didn't
21:21:02 <Phantom_Hoover> God, that was weird.
21:21:04 <elliott> After I said your mothers are dingbats; perhaps it found me insulting. :p
21:21:08 * Phantom_Hoover checks his screenshots.
21:21:11 <elliott> Straight after, actually; quite odd.
21:21:13 <Phantom_Hoover> What the...
21:21:15 <elliott> Yeah, I took some screenies too.
21:21:20 <elliott> ...they're totally black.
21:21:25 <elliott> No -- wait -- this one has something more.
21:21:26 <Phantom_Hoover> I got random noise.
21:21:39 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: THE FURY OF THE SOUND CAN NEVER BE MEASURED).
21:21:45 <Vorpal> -_-
21:21:57 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, you know, you are a parody of yourself now
21:22:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, the contents of the screenshots folder is *changing*.
21:22:49 <Phantom_Hoover> And there's a process with 100% CPU use and no command in top.
21:23:23 <Phantom_Hoover> O GOD IT'S SPREADING
21:24:15 -!- elliott has joined.
21:24:17 <elliott> STAND TO ATTENTION.
21:24:22 <elliott> This is your final warning. This is your only warning.
21:24:27 <elliott> The gate is here, it ææ@³øđŊ¼Ø⅛Ŋ¼
21:24:38 <elliott> On the strike £ı¿°| it will©£
21:24:46 <elliott> There will be no ŋ”ŋŋŋŋ
21:24:56 <elliott> As it @ł³½€}→¸every w³½\}→ will disintł³]}½→ß}¶ßŧ“
21:24:58 -!- elliott has quit (Client Quit).
21:25:08 <fizzie> Possibly you could consider the off-topicness of your performance art, though?
21:25:44 <zzo38> Ouch Ouch OuchOuchOuch Ouch OuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuch Ouch OuchOuch OuchOuch Ouch Ouch Ouch Ouch OuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuch WARNING DANGER OUCHOUCHOUCHOUCH OUCH OUCHOUCH
21:26:27 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38 is not participating, I ought to point out.
21:26:33 <Phantom_Hoover> He is just being weird.
21:26:44 -!- elliott has joined.
21:26:45 <elliott> all
21:26:46 <fizzie> Yes, that's completely in-character for him.
21:26:47 <elliott> must
21:26:52 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:29:09 <Vorpal> fizzie, it crashed?
21:29:37 <Vorpal> fizzie, die: main.c:77
21:29:38 <ineiros> I'm in a bus. Soon home.
21:29:42 <Vorpal> fizzie, client->server
21:29:49 <Deewiant> I got a SocketException
21:29:49 <fizzie> Vorpal: That's just when it gets disconnected.
21:29:58 <Phantom_Hoover> ineiros, did you just hellify the server?
21:30:05 <Phantom_Hoover> XD.
21:30:08 <Vorpal> ineiros, did you just...
21:30:16 <Deewiant> Evidently
21:30:24 <Phantom_Hoover> And ghasts, too!
21:30:26 <Phantom_Hoover> My, my!
21:30:37 <Vorpal> I'm disconnecting until it is fixed
21:30:38 <fizzie> Yes, I did hear that sort of thing happens to naughty users. :p
21:30:47 -!- elliott has joined.
21:30:49 <Vorpal> I have no intention to play until it is fixed
21:30:49 <elliott> THOU IN THY PEREFCT ATTACK
21:31:02 <fizzie> I do want to see how mcmap shows hellworld, though.
21:31:12 <fizzie> The surface map at least will probably be broken.
21:31:15 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm getting drawn in by this, and I came up with the idea!
21:31:21 <Vorpal> ...
21:31:40 <Vorpal> I prefer getting the normal world if it is all the same to you
21:31:47 <elliott> THOU IN THY TERROR DISTRACT
21:31:49 <Vorpal> like, actually getting to my house
21:32:00 <pikhq> The US Senate has voted to repeal the ban on gay soldiers.
21:32:04 <elliott> THOU IN THIS WORLD SHALL DENY
21:32:06 <elliott> THOU IN THY PEREFCT ATTACK
21:32:10 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, yaaaaay!
21:32:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, did it go through?
21:32:18 <zzo38> In America, you kill yourself. In Soviet Russia, yourself kills YOU!!!
21:32:22 <pikhq> 65-31.
21:32:47 <Vorpal> ineiros, solution to this: add those damn wraps. I don't see how else people will stop doing client side teleporting
21:33:10 <pikhq> Literally the only thing that could hold it up now is Obama not signing it.
21:33:12 <pikhq> (yeah right)
21:33:15 <Vorpal> ineiros, as in, it won't happen, whenever you like it or not, it would be all the same to me
21:33:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, yes, all of this is due to client-side teleports.
21:33:35 <Phantom_Hoover> WE HAVE TAMPERED IN GOD'S DOMAIN
21:33:35 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, the hellworld certainly is
21:33:44 <oerjan> I AM PLAY GOD
21:34:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, the hellworld is because ineiros joined in on me and elliott's little act.
21:34:16 <elliott> The hellworld is because I asked for hell on earth.
21:34:19 <ais523> wow, londonmidland.com tries to set over 70 cookies
21:34:20 <ais523> wtf is it doing?
21:34:21 <Vorpal> ...
21:34:22 <fizzie> Vorpal: The weirdest thing: any //goto in the hellworld teleports you above the top-bedrock.
21:34:25 <elliott> Turns out ineiros is awesome.
21:34:29 <Vorpal> fizzie, right
21:34:35 <Vorpal> fizzie, anyway, I want to reach my house
21:34:36 <Vorpal> I can't
21:34:36 <fizzie> Vorpal: Then you'll just stand on a flat sheet of bedrock.
21:34:40 <Vorpal> seriously...
21:34:49 <elliott> Vorpal: WHOOPS IT'S A GAME
21:35:16 <Vorpal> I guess I'll patch mcmap to dump the world, then go around next time it is back to normal, and then start a saner server
21:35:32 <Vorpal> (because I do like my house)
21:35:44 <Phantom_Hoover> (BtW, I've not been connecting because I have a tonne of clay and I don't want to risk losing it to a ghast.)
21:35:50 <Vorpal> ineiros, could you not run two separate servers
21:35:59 <elliott> ineiros: You've upset him.
21:36:02 <elliott> You'll never hear the end ofi t now.
21:36:05 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Chest it.
21:36:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, Cthulhu almighty, it's a temporary joke!
21:36:13 <Vorpal> ineiros, also, cartographer (iirc you use that one) breaks if nether exists
21:36:21 <Vorpal> as in, it can't handle the world later
21:36:28 <Vorpal> unless that bug was fixed
21:36:31 <fizzie> Vorpal: Good chance to collect hellblocks, though.
21:36:38 <Vorpal> fizzie, not sure I care...
21:37:03 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, hey, good point.
21:38:10 <elliott> ineiros: You didn't enable monsters. I think.
21:38:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Gyaah, MC crashed when I tried to connect.
21:38:20 <elliott> ineiros: see /msg
21:38:24 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, I certainly heard a ghast's giggle.
21:38:27 <elliott> Ditto.
21:40:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, this series of Futurama isn't going to watch itself...
21:40:10 <Gracenotes> ineiros, I'd love to get in on the minecraft server :D mc nick = gracenotes
21:40:20 <Gracenotes> it's.. been a while.. :x
21:40:24 <elliott> Gracenotes: It's currently in Hell.
21:40:27 <elliott> Gracenotes: Because of Cthulhu.
21:40:44 <Gracenotes> hm? didn't notch fix the bug of merging hell and non-hell in SMP?
21:40:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Gracenotes, dunno.
21:40:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Not on our server/
21:41:14 <Gracenotes> yeah... keep server client updated :) server.. client.. yeah.
21:41:15 <elliott> Gracenotes: Currently we're in hellworld.
21:41:22 <ineiros> Okay, at home now. Who would like to tell what's been happening?
21:41:27 <Phantom_Hoover> But long story short, elliott and I pretended we'd just found R'lyeh and ineiros played along.
21:41:43 <elliott> ineiros: see /msg
21:41:56 <Gracenotes> is the server at a particular IP? does it do mac/ip filtering?
21:42:09 <elliott> Gracenotes: It is a particular IP; no filtering; ask ineiros.
21:42:25 <Gracenotes> hi ineiros
21:42:40 <ineiros> So how does the client side teleporting work? I'm heavily intoxicated so please explain in simple terms. :P
21:43:06 <elliott> ineiros: Go into sky, fly fly fly.
21:43:16 <elliott> ineiros: (Go into sky, say I'm there.)
21:43:22 <elliott> ineiros: see /msg
21:43:28 <Gracenotes> teleport ing.. with mods??
21:44:05 <elliott> Gracenotes: No, with our fancy server proxy.
21:44:07 <elliott> It maps too.
21:44:16 <fizzie> ineiros: I just explained this to you in the query, what more do you want?-)
21:44:26 <elliott> ineiros: /msgggg
21:44:27 <ineiros> I'll try to read again.
21:44:34 <elliott> ineiros: Read mine too :P
21:45:54 <hagb4rd|afk> ah inerios! ..would you mind if if i bug u for a second? query?
21:46:02 -!- hagb4rd|afk has changed nick to hagb4rd.
21:46:25 <elliott> ineiros: see /msg
21:46:34 <Gracenotes> okay taking shower now... be back later
21:47:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Tell me when health is on.
21:49:09 <zzo38> Let's play yakitori cricket.
21:51:45 <zzo38> They talked about Pluto in the radio today.
21:52:06 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It's on.
21:55:34 <Vorpal> elliott, fuck you too
21:55:43 <elliott> ineiros: You are super-boring.
21:55:47 <Vorpal> ineiros++
21:56:16 <Deewiant> Woot, NullPointerException on connect
21:56:28 <elliott> ineiros: :'(
21:56:35 <elliott> ineiros: I'll cry for seven days and seven nights!
21:56:36 <Vorpal> ineiros, yay
21:56:50 <Vorpal> ineiros, you did the right thing when restoring
21:56:54 <zzo38> elliott: Why do you need to cry that much?
21:57:02 <Deewiant> Damn, inventory lost
21:57:21 <zzo38> Deewiant: Every posession is a stone to your leg.
21:57:52 <Deewiant> I wasn't meaning to possess it for long
21:57:59 <ineiros> I stopped the server gracefully, so it's probably a bug.
21:58:20 <fizzie> Deewiant: What did you want the mud for, anyway?
21:58:59 <Deewiant> You'll find out soon enough
21:59:15 <fizzie> Deewiant: Ominous!
21:59:37 <Vorpal> Deewiant, if you need say 5 blocks then I can give you some
21:59:44 <Deewiant> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw !
21:59:58 <Deewiant> 5 isn't quite enough
22:00:00 <Phantom_Hoover> ineiros, FWIW, what're your plans for once beta is released?
22:00:08 <zzo38> fizzie: The mud is for throwing at your eye so you can't see, at your ear so you can't hear, and at your paper so that you can't read.
22:00:22 <Deewiant> But I suppose I could duplicate more and pretend that it's from a nether-expedition
22:00:22 <fizzie> Deewiant: That certainly explained things.
22:00:34 <ineiros> Is there soe information available? Are there some decisions to make?
22:00:37 <Deewiant> fizzie: It punctuates the ominousness
22:00:43 <elliott> Deewiant: There's :6666.
22:00:59 <Deewiant> elliott: But does inventory stick?
22:01:03 <Deewiant> Isn't it a different instance?
22:01:05 <elliott> Deewiant: Yes, it is.
22:01:12 <elliott> Deewiant: Which is lame, and also means both are impossibly laggy.
22:01:22 <Deewiant> In other words, it's not an option
22:02:50 <Phantom_Hoover> ineiros, dunno!
22:02:52 <elliott> Deewiant: Neither is the main server right now.
22:03:05 <Deewiant> What do you mean?
22:03:54 <ineiros> Is it more laggy for you now?
22:03:57 <zzo38> I have gotten a lot more things in TeXnicard to work now.
22:04:10 <elliott> ineiros: Impossibly, yes.
22:04:24 <ineiros> For some reason my connection is really laggy, but the load is just above one and the server has two cores.
22:04:27 <Vorpal> ineiros, completely bugged
22:04:28 <zzo38> After I finished, we should make up the TeXnicard contest.
22:04:33 <ineiros> I'll turn it off, then.
22:04:36 <Vorpal> ineiros, err, bogged*
22:04:40 <Vorpal> ineiros, not bugged
22:04:42 <Vorpal> typo there
22:04:48 <elliott> ineiros: Turn off the non-hell server.
22:04:56 <Vorpal> ineiros, turn off the hell server
22:05:06 <fizzie> Turn off one half of both!
22:05:12 <fizzie> (Don't ask me how.)
22:05:17 <Vorpal> ineiros, since the hell one is useless without access to material from the normal world
22:05:33 <Vorpal> and also ehird just go around destroying shelters
22:05:38 <Vorpal> so there isn't much point to it
22:05:38 <zzo38> ineiros: Turn off two thirds of both.
22:06:19 <ineiros> zzo38: Haha.
22:06:28 <Vorpal> elliott, I presume you don't carry best armour? if so, I could just pvp you out of existence. Problem solved in hell.
22:06:31 <Deewiant> But then we'll be stuck with only two thirds of a server
22:06:43 <elliott> ineiros: Turn off both and watch Vorpal whine for a year.
22:06:44 <zzo38> I mean, turn off two thirds of each.
22:06:50 <elliott> MY HOUSE! MY BEAUTIFUL HOUSE!!!
22:06:51 <Vorpal> elliott, actually I wouldn't
22:07:04 <Vorpal> elliott, I would expect you to whine a lot more
22:07:12 <elliott> Err, why?
22:07:21 <zzo38> Turn off both of them (as well as the backup) and then just play cards instead.
22:07:23 <Vorpal> elliott, since you whined about it NOT being hell all the time
22:07:37 <elliott> Vorpal: Only because it basically happened because you whined a lot.
22:07:49 <Vorpal> elliott, I did not. I complained. Not whined
22:08:17 <Phantom_Hoover> ineiros, as the one responsible for this madness I demand loads of netherware.
22:08:38 <oerjan> whine and cheese
22:08:44 <Vorpal> oerjan, hah
22:09:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Actually, netherware all 'round!
22:09:14 <Vorpal> I would start a server, except I have adsl. It just couldn't handle the uplink
22:09:17 <elliott> Apart from Vorpal.
22:09:27 <elliott> He didn't want any Netherware and said "who cares" when Phantom_Hoover said he lost his Netherware.
22:09:30 <elliott> So clearly he doesn't want any of it.
22:09:35 <Vorpal> elliott, yeah it is pretty useless
22:09:44 <Vorpal> elliott, slow sand and lightstone sure
22:09:51 <Vorpal> but the netherstone... is useless basically
22:09:56 <Vorpal> logs burn forever too
22:10:04 <elliott> I want my 14 lightstone dust. :p
22:10:26 <zzo38> Fine. Try the other server at zzo38computer.cjb.net:9876 and see if it is work. Probably it doesn't, but try anyways.
22:10:57 <Vorpal> zzo38, what is it?
22:10:58 <elliott> zzo38: I doubt that is a Minecraft server :P
22:11:01 -!- elliott has left (?).
22:11:03 -!- elliott has joined.
22:11:21 <zzo38> Try connecting to it with Minecraft. Probably it doesn't work, but try anyways.
22:11:29 <Vorpal> zzo38, so what is running on it
22:11:42 <zzo38> Vorpal: Why don't you try and figure out?
22:11:52 <ineiros> Is the server working?
22:11:55 <fizzie> Netherware, isn't that Novell's silly LAN thing?
22:11:56 <Vorpal> zzo38, oh is this a guessing game? why didn't you say
22:12:08 <Vorpal> fizzie, XD
22:12:14 <Vorpal> ineiros, doesn't seem to be working
22:12:20 <Vorpal> ineiros, well, nmap says port is open
22:12:25 <Vorpal> but connecting to it times out
22:12:28 <ineiros> You must be brokeded it.
22:12:41 <fizzie> Also minecraft.net was down a moment ago.
22:12:46 <fizzie> Could be related to that too.
22:12:48 <ineiros> Try now.
22:12:49 <Vorpal> ah
22:12:50 <Vorpal> could be
22:12:53 <fizzie> There's the user-account checkery.
22:13:09 <Vorpal> well minecraft.net is still down for me
22:13:10 <ineiros> Probably not, the server wasn't responding to any commands.
22:13:13 <Vorpal> ah
22:13:17 <Vorpal> ineiros, I got in
22:13:22 <Vorpal> kind of
22:13:24 <ineiros> Had to force-kill it.
22:13:28 <Vorpal> I'm in a grey void
22:14:08 <Vorpal> ineiros, hm I think elliott teleported just before
22:14:10 <Vorpal> could explain it
22:14:22 <Vorpal> ineiros, down again
22:14:30 <elliott> Huh?
22:14:32 <Vorpal> ineiros, I think he will keep doing it until you ban him
22:14:39 <Vorpal> elliott, you bought down the server again
22:14:41 <ineiros> elliott: No teleporting.
22:14:44 <elliott> I did? o_O
22:15:25 <Vorpal> elliott, you teleported I bet
22:15:43 <Vorpal> ineiros, it might be a good idea to add some wrap points however
22:15:58 <ineiros> I can do that.
22:16:09 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, remember what happened last time we teleported.
22:16:11 <ineiros> But why is the lag so horrible?
22:16:32 <Vorpal> ineiros, who knows
22:16:50 <Vorpal> ineiros, approx 15 second
22:17:29 <Phantom_Hoover> ineiros, clearly it was tampering in Notch's domain.
22:17:44 <Phantom_Hoover> I suggest you do something to (100000,100000).
22:17:52 <elliott> ineiros: You should make a new map.
22:18:21 <Vorpal> ineiros, not before limiting view to say, 5000 in each direction
22:18:26 <elliott> No, no, before that.
22:18:31 <Vorpal> ineiros, since otherwise you will get a multi-gb image file
22:18:33 <elliott> I would like to see it ALL.
22:18:37 <elliott> Vorpal: Er, not with png.
22:18:41 <elliott> You do realise that a lot of white space compresses well?
22:18:54 <fizzie> elliott: You do realise it's a silly Python script that creates the image.
22:19:02 <elliott> fizzie: Verily.
22:19:11 <fizzie> It's not going to be able to build that without having an uncompressed version around before packing.
22:19:15 <Vorpal> elliott, yes but it will be unusable due to most programs loading it not handling it
22:19:37 <fizzie> Given the "code quality" (ahem), I wouldn't be too surprised that the 100k,100k location could possibly influence the server just by existing.
22:19:44 <Vorpal> fizzie, yes
22:19:53 <elliott> It's fast enough right now, so "no".
22:19:59 <Vorpal> 4000 I *walked* to
22:20:25 <elliott> Yes, yes, and now I, in my campaign of evil, not only went back in time and stopped music from ever existing, but CHEATED CRUELLY.
22:20:27 <elliott> Right?
22:20:39 <fizzie> I did think about doing an if (x > -5000 && x < 5000 && z > -5000 && z < 5000) test in the teleportation code, but that would've been oh-so-trivial to just comment out.
22:20:41 <quintopia> hey guys, what's a likely command for calculating the total amount of disk space my vps is allowing me from inside my container?
22:21:03 <Vorpal> quintopia, writing an email and asking them
22:21:34 <quintopia> i don't have the software for email composing and sending in my container at the moment. any other way?
22:21:35 <oerjan> elliott: what is this "music" thing you're talking about?
22:21:40 <elliott> oerjan: Who knows.
22:21:53 <elliott> quintopia: um, df?
22:22:01 <zzo38> quintopia: What container?
22:22:15 <quintopia> zzo38: it's an old ubuntu i think
22:22:55 <fizzie> df has a possibility of working.
22:23:06 <fizzie> But it's not exactly guaranteed to.
22:23:26 <quintopia> thanks elliott
22:23:50 <elliott> ais523: are you there/
22:23:52 <elliott> ?
22:24:26 <Vorpal> fizzie, elliott now wants the server to delete the world and start afresh.... or at least remove pre-halloween bits.
22:24:34 <Vorpal> fizzie, just a heads-up as a warning
22:24:44 <elliott> Yes, I'm going to hack in to the server and force it to be regenerated.
22:24:47 <elliott> Fear my cyberterrorism!
22:24:51 <Vorpal> elliott, ... did I say that?
22:24:55 <elliott> Hyperbole will never be the same again!
22:25:03 <elliott> Vorpal: as a "warning"
22:25:05 <Vorpal> elliott, but you should not be allowed to convince the server alone
22:25:10 <Vorpal> that is what the warning is about
22:25:21 <elliott> I'm sure ineiros does everything I tell him to without questioning it.
22:25:24 <elliott> Isn't that right, ineiros?
22:25:32 <elliott> (Maybe Vorpal thinks drunk people agree with the first person to suggest them anything.)
22:25:48 <Vorpal> elliott, well you manage to get him to do the hell mess
22:25:57 <elliott> Actually that was Phantom_Hoover too.
22:26:01 <elliott> And it wasn't a "mess".
22:26:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Given Vorpal's super-obnoxiously-boring attitude to life, I wouldn't be surprised.
22:26:04 <elliott> It was a mess because you were whining.
22:26:12 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, wait, you convinced ineiros alone.
22:26:18 <ineiros> Vorpal: I didn't actually listen to you guys, that was something I decided to do when the server started throwing errors. :)
22:26:23 <zzo38> Is the most recent version of ImageMagick not available as a Ubuntu package? When I send a message to them, they wouldn't install it, because, they said, the Ubuntu package does not have the new version of ImageMagick. (If it is important, I could install it in my home directory, I guess.)
22:26:24 <elliott> Well, yes, but I'd already suggested it to him months ago.
22:26:29 <Phantom_Hoover> I was as surprised as everyone else when I connected and found myself in hell?
22:26:30 <Vorpal> heh
22:26:31 <ineiros> I was on my N900 at the time, didn't really read the backlog.
22:26:37 <Vorpal> ineiros, phew
22:26:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Oh, his naïvety wrt booze 'n drugz is on record.
22:26:45 <Phantom_Hoover> s/?/./
22:27:16 <Phantom_Hoover> ineiros, wait, so you did that purely by coincidence?
22:27:33 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDZBgHBHQT8
22:28:33 <ineiros> Phantom_Hoover: Yes. Also drunken malice. :P
22:29:51 <Phantom_Hoover> I hope you're all listening to that video at the moment.
22:30:32 <elliott> I am.
22:30:35 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: I am not listening to any video at the moment.
22:31:04 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, well listen to that one!
22:31:19 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: No. What is it anyways?
22:31:28 <Phantom_Hoover> The X-Files theme.
22:31:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Perfect for any supernatural activities!
22:31:54 <zzo38> Is it necessary to watch it too? Or just listen?
22:32:39 -!- j-invariant has joined.
22:34:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, anyway what?
22:34:38 <fizzie> Anyway, *disconnect*.
22:34:41 <Vorpal> ah
22:34:46 <fizzie> Except you weren't around to see that part of it.
22:34:50 <Vorpal> fizzie, right
22:35:06 -!- ineiros_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:35:10 <Vorpal> hm
22:35:14 <elliott> hi j-invariant
22:35:44 <Vorpal> fizzie, anyway, we can blame elliott for this pretty much.
22:35:52 <elliott> Clearly.
22:35:59 <elliott> Despite the fact that the server would be erroring anyway.
22:36:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, you mean the hellening?
22:36:05 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, no
22:36:21 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, or yes too, he did the porting causing errors
22:36:21 <j-invariant> hi
22:36:27 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, resulting in this
22:36:36 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, and then the blanket ban
22:36:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, what blanket ban?
22:36:50 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, if it had been used responsibly that would not have happened
22:36:55 <fizzie> I'm not sure what "this" is, but, well.
22:37:00 <elliott> j-invariant: Insert standard channel is about esoteric programming languages not esoterica etc. disclaimer here.
22:37:07 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, ehird claimed that the server added a blanked ban on porting
22:37:12 <Phantom_Hoover> What are esoterica in the first place?
22:37:19 <fizzie> elliott: Someone with "invariant" in his name is obviously programming-related already.
22:37:25 <zzo38> Do you know of any software MML->MOD conversion, or MML->OGG conversion?
22:37:32 <elliott> fizzie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-invariant You sure?
22:37:33 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, could just be mathematical.
22:37:40 <Deewiant> zzo38: Which MML?
22:37:41 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Esoterick magick Aleister Crowley.
22:37:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah.
22:37:50 <zzo38> Deewiant: Music macro language
22:37:58 <Vorpal> elliott, k?
22:38:04 <elliott> Vorpal: What?
22:38:10 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, I haven't seen any Wiccans here lately?
22:38:13 <Vorpal> elliott, you typoed magic
22:38:16 <Phantom_Hoover> s/?/./
22:38:17 <elliott> Vorpal: No, I really didn't.
22:38:19 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Well, okay, but it's not the sort of magikcy sort of name.
22:38:21 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magick
22:38:22 <Vorpal> elliott, yes that is why I asked
22:38:32 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: We get them occasionally.
22:38:56 <Deewiant> zzo38: Well, there's MML to MID, a format that more tools can handle
22:39:02 <Phantom_Hoover> How many times have channel members been turned into a newt as a result?
22:39:16 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, none that I know of
22:39:20 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: -2+ei
22:39:40 <Vorpal> ineiros, is it connectable to again? Or is it about to go down again?
22:39:54 <Vorpal> ineiros, the port is open so...
22:40:10 <ineiros> Open now.
22:40:47 <zzo38> Deewiant: Then should I write a MML->MOD program? Can it work with improper note pitch?
22:41:16 <Deewiant> I don't know enough about the formats to be able to answer that
22:41:19 <ineiros> I fear that the problems with the connection are beyond my command. I may have to upgrade the connection (or outsource the server).
22:43:18 <Vorpal> ineiros, just a question, what was it that you forbid?
22:43:28 <Vorpal> err, forbade
22:43:32 <elliott> Teleportation.
22:43:33 <Vorpal> or whatever the word is
22:43:45 <Vorpal> ineiros, it sounded like illegal moves
22:44:00 <Vorpal> ineiros, in which case, doesn't ending up on the top of a fence cause it
22:44:07 <Vorpal> ineiros, which can happen out of accident
22:44:12 <Vorpal> and same for top of boat iirc
22:44:27 <Vorpal> meaning it is near impossible to avoid
22:44:36 <Vorpal> unless we walk all the time
22:44:37 <Phantom_Hoover> What does it do?
22:44:43 <elliott> ineiros: He's trying to loophole his way out of a teleportation ban.
22:44:44 <Phantom_Hoover> When you make an illegal move?
22:44:45 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what does what do
22:44:49 <Vorpal> elliott, no I'm not
22:44:54 <elliott> Yes, you are.
22:44:57 <Vorpal> elliott, I'm trying to get a clear answer
22:45:10 <Deewiant> "Near impossible to avoid" - I've ended up on top of a fence exactly once :-P
22:45:10 <elliott> This is really beyond tedious, can we talk about something interesting?
22:45:21 <Vorpal> Deewiant, well for elliott I meant
22:45:32 <elliott> Uh huh.
22:45:42 <elliott> ais523: So, scapegoat.
22:45:44 <Vorpal> however, since he seem to have a grudge to me
22:45:50 <Vorpal> I guess I won't help him
22:46:03 <ais523> elliott: that was sudden
22:46:18 <ais523> also, surprising, as you said it just after I started reasing scrollback after not paying attention for ages
22:46:29 <elliott> ais523: I'm trying to shut Vorpal up, or at least drown his noise out with something vaguely approximating signal.
22:46:39 <elliott> ais523: Now I just have to think of some sg-related insight.
22:46:40 <Vorpal> elliott, just /ignore me then
22:46:51 <elliott> Vorpal: No; this way I get interesting discussion too.
22:47:13 <Vorpal> ineiros, anyway, I never saw the teleportation ban mentioned by you. Only a "don't do that" for illegal move
22:47:23 <Vorpal> which can easily happen when exiting boat
22:47:29 <Vorpal> ineiros, meaning, are we banned from using boats?
22:48:05 <elliott> He said "No teleportation."
22:48:09 <Vorpal> elliott, where
22:48:22 <elliott> 14:14:41 <ineiros> elliott: No teleporting.
22:48:27 <elliott> Now watch as Vorpal claimed that only applied *specifically* to me.
22:48:30 <elliott> *claims
22:48:42 <Vorpal> elliott, well, it would be the reasonable option
22:49:03 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, are you using the Tree monad?
22:49:09 <elliott> ineiros: Can you please just answer to shut him up.
22:49:17 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I don't see how that would help; anyway, sg repos are graphs.
22:49:22 <Vorpal> elliott, presumably it should be read as "no dangerous teleportation" as well. It worked fine when fizzie did it for moderate values.... He only knew about your telport to 100000 or whatever it was
22:49:34 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, Graph monad!
22:49:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Are graphs monads?
22:49:51 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, what a silly question!
22:50:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Anything's a monad if you can get return, join and fmap working on it!
22:50:16 <j-invariant> can you?
22:50:17 <fizzie> Here's something I have to say: not being the one to run a minecraft server for you guys is one of the things I'm extremely happy about.
22:50:24 <elliott> fizzie: Totally.
22:50:29 <elliott> j-invariant: Can you what?
22:50:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Only if they obey the laws. :p
22:50:41 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, hence "working".
22:50:47 <j-invariant> can you make a graph monad/
22:50:57 <elliott> j-invariant: "Maybe."
22:51:04 <elliott> fmap seems obvious.
22:51:10 <elliott> return too.
22:51:11 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, no, "Graph".
22:51:14 <elliott> join, I'm not sure about.
22:51:16 <elliott> Quite possibly.
22:51:18 <Gracenotes> Haskell? in my #esoteric ?
22:51:20 <elliott> Yes, I think so.
22:51:22 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, graph of graphs.
22:51:23 <elliott> Hmm. Maybe.
22:51:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Make into a graph.
22:51:32 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yes. But where do you connect the connections?
22:51:36 <elliott> to, that is.
22:51:46 <elliott> fizzie: I wonder if I could coerce the server to running with 256 MiB of ram. :p
22:51:47 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, connect everything to each member of the subgraph?
22:51:59 <Gracenotes> does graph monad not finish for cyclic graphs? :x
22:52:20 <Gracenotes> er.. I suppose you'd use a more sensible graph representation.. nevarmind.
22:52:27 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Possibly, yes.
22:52:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Gracenotes, silly question, again. Ask again once we have defined a monad.
22:52:40 <elliott> I hire j-invariant to code it, as is the policy* with newbies.
22:52:41 <elliott> *as of now
22:52:53 <elliott> Anyone any good with B-trees?
22:52:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Remind me of the join-based monad laws.
22:52:59 <Gracenotes> if you treat it as a list of nodes, it's not so bad
22:53:05 <fizzie> elliott: You could run craftd, Mineserver or Quartz; those are C/C++, just simply based on the language they might be a bit less resource-hungry.
22:53:06 <j-invariant> I'll have a go
22:53:12 <Gracenotes> as long as it satisfies the laws
22:53:19 <elliott> j-invariant: Well, that I wasn't expecting. (What language?)
22:53:31 <elliott> fizzie: One would assume it has to hold at least some of the map in memory regardless... but maybe.
22:53:32 <Deewiant> Phantom_Hoover: join . fmap join = join . join
22:53:44 <Gracenotes> join . return = id
22:54:15 <zzo38> j-invariant: Can you play Washizu mahjong, backwards?
22:54:16 <Deewiant> = join . fmap return
22:54:17 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, what definition of a graph are you using, BtW?
22:54:23 <Gracenotes> yes
22:54:23 <Deewiant> And can't remember the third
22:54:25 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I'm not sure.
22:54:27 <elliott> Directed cyclic?
22:54:35 <elliott> Directed cyclic or non-directed cyclic, anyway.
22:54:37 <elliott> Not acyclic, that's boring.
22:54:39 <Phantom_Hoover> In terms of a data declaration?
22:54:44 <j-invariant> zzo38: no I've never played Mahjong of any sort
22:54:46 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Somethin reasonable.
22:55:13 <fizzie> elliott: Yes, but 256M is already a 1448x1448x128 map-block. (And maybe you could be agressive about run-length encoding air away, or unloading blocks to disk. Okay, so 256M does sound quite pushing it.)
22:55:37 <elliott> fizzie: It has to run the OS, too. :p
22:55:45 <elliott> And all the miscellaneous structure.
22:55:49 <zzo38> j-invariant: OK. Have you ever played Dungeons&Dragons game?
22:56:02 <j-invariant> zzo38: sorry zzo38 I have not played those either
22:56:12 <fizzie> "The goal of craftd is to provide a high performance, low overhead implementation of the Minecraft Survival Multiplayer (SMP) protocol." (They don't list any system requirements, though.)
22:56:57 <zzo38> j-invariant: OK. How many computer programs have you written (if any)?
22:57:17 <elliott> fizzie: "It doesn't currently implement much of the Minecraft protocol, but you can follow along and track progress. Check back later for release tarballs and eventually binaries."
22:57:35 <fizzie> Oh, and the Mineserver folks say it "consumes less than 1/10th the resources of the official server", so if you take that at a face value, your 256M is equivalent to 2560M for the official server.
22:57:47 <fizzie> (I'm not sure I'd trust 'em.)
22:57:49 <elliott> fizzie: Sounds PLAUSIBLE.
22:58:23 <elliott> fizzie: Mineserver has its own map generation which probably sucks ass.
22:58:51 <elliott> ais523: hmm, what would you recommend I implement after objects, scapegoat-wise?
22:58:59 <elliott> ais523: there's, like, 10 things I could do -- maybe patches?
23:00:14 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, incidentally, I think that tentative definition of join actually works with the laws.
23:01:25 <zzo38> j-invariant: If you haven't played those games... Can you play cricket? If not, what can you play? Shogi? Poker? Funny-Poker? Pokerscope? Flipperless pinball? The game of the year?
23:01:53 <j-invariant> zzo38: no I don't play cricket. I have tried to learn Shogi but I am very bad at it
23:02:01 <fizzie> Strip paintball, does that already exist?
23:02:13 <zzo38> If not, please look at the esolang wiki, to learn about esoteric programming.
23:02:40 <pikhq> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqXYPvhHMCo Real SNES, CD quality sound with game. (oh, and about 4GB of storage space available) Whooo.
23:02:43 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, I can play fencing.
23:02:58 <zzo38> I am not very good at shogi either, but I know all the rules and am better than most people who are not very good at shogi.
23:03:02 * Phantom_Hoover slaps zzo38
23:03:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Choose your weapons!
23:03:33 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, whose thing is that?
23:03:38 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: I choose the weapon that it has a 50% chance to damage the target and 50% chance to heal the target, every time it hits.
23:03:59 <Phantom_Hoover> VERY WELL
23:04:31 * zzo38 upside-down Phantom_Hoover
23:04:47 * Phantom_Hoover lunges
23:05:11 * zzo38 room spin too fast
23:05:46 <j-invariant> elliott: actually I can't write join. if our graph was (a)----(b), where a was the graph (x)-(y) and b was the graph (x)-(z) I have no way of distinguishing between the two x's.
23:06:06 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: Sorry, you lose. You are out hit wicket.
23:07:01 <Phantom_Hoover> j-invariant, do you need to?
23:07:12 <zzo38> Mentanpin riichi dora 13. Yakuman.
23:07:23 <zzo38> Too bad for you!!!
23:07:32 <elliott> j-invariant: allow duplicates?
23:08:06 <elliott> j-invariant: I think there is a type of graph that allows duplicates, so just a cyclic one of those.
23:08:26 <Phantom_Hoover> I still don't see where it breaks the monad laws...
23:08:54 <j-invariant> http://pastebin.com/AC9MQggA
23:09:04 <elliott> j-invariant: the result would be "x(1)<->y; x(1)<->x(2); y<->x(2); x(2)<->z; x(1)<->z; y<->z;"
23:09:06 <elliott> j-invariant: assuming undirected
23:09:07 <elliott> j-invariant: I think?
23:09:09 <elliott> is this right?
23:09:13 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: Next time, make sure to use a real fence.
23:09:17 <elliott> say x(1) is the x attached to y and x(2) the one attached to z
23:09:24 <j-invariant> elliott: that's what I had in mind but I can't program it
23:09:33 <elliott> j-invariant: yeah it sounds like a bitch to do
23:09:40 <elliott> j-invariant: hmm well merge vertices and edges
23:09:49 <elliott> j-invariant: so that every element contains all its arcs?
23:09:50 <j-invariant> we would have to have join :: m (m a) -> m (a,Tag)
23:09:56 <elliott> j-invariant: that way, you won't need to
23:10:01 <elliott> since each element "knows" its connections
23:10:26 <j-invariant> oh yeah, represent graphs by matrices -- then it's just tensor product
23:10:41 <elliott> j-invariant: well that makes it *easy*! :p
23:11:50 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, so there are no non-connected vertices?
23:12:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: hmm dunno
23:12:38 <elliott> j-invariant seems to have figured it out, dunno if they're implementing that version though :P
23:12:42 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:19:54 <elliott> haskell would be nicer if every function was a typeclass. :P
23:19:56 <Vorpal> 40 second lag...
23:19:59 <Vorpal> huh
23:20:31 <pikhq> o.O
23:20:39 <elliott> pikhq: Vorpal means in Minecraft, which he now lives in.
23:20:42 <elliott> Probably.
23:20:44 <pikhq> Torchwood airs in Germany. Doctor Who does not.
23:20:47 <elliott> Maybe not though.
23:20:47 <Gracenotes> 40 second hug
23:20:49 <elliott> And whut.
23:21:06 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, this is all your fault!
23:21:08 <Vorpal> elliott, as does Deewiant
23:21:12 <Gracenotes> oh man the next few days are cloudy
23:21:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Burn the witch!
23:21:18 <elliott> Vorpal: No, Deewiant does things that aren't Minecraft.
23:21:36 * Phantom_Hoover occasionally does non-MC things.
23:21:38 <Vorpal> elliott, so do I
23:21:51 <elliott> I doubt it.
23:22:05 <zzo38> I always does non-Minecraft things.
23:23:21 <elliott> In fact maybe Haskell would be nicer if it was Coq.
23:23:23 <elliott> (Or Epigram ...)
23:25:50 <j-invariant> if i had the energy i would make my own language..
23:27:41 <elliott> j-invariant: i've already done that... several times... too bad i'm not smart enough to implement it
23:27:45 <ais523> I should learn Coq sometime
23:27:57 <ais523> elliott: well, I've implemented some of my esolangs
23:28:11 <elliott> ais523: that's rather easier than implementing my monstrosity of a language
23:28:12 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, learning Coq is the road to pain.
23:28:35 <ais523> hmm, theory: the vast majority of languages are either hard to use because they're designed to be easy to implement, or hard to implement because they're designed to be easy to use
23:28:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Unless you it properly and ignore rewrite.
23:28:55 <elliott> rewrite is vital
23:29:00 <elliott> ais523: coq is wonderful
23:29:04 <ais523> what is rewrite?
23:29:10 <j-invariant> I think Coq is useless
23:29:14 <elliott> ais523: rewrite rewrites the current goal.
23:29:15 <ais523> also, wonderful + painful to learn sounds like most of the things I enjoy
23:29:18 <elliott> j-invariant: Why?
23:29:22 <ais523> like NetHack, and INTERCAL
23:29:29 <j-invariant> You can't form quotient types like you do in set theory
23:29:32 <ais523> and, umm, vim/Emacs
23:29:45 <elliott> j-invariant: well, you can do "good enough"
23:29:49 <oerjan> ais523: i subscribe to that theory as the reason why we have no useful esolang cycles yet
23:30:04 <ais523> oerjan: actually, you're probably correct there
23:30:06 <elliott> ais523: note that coq's stdlib sucks... hm i wonder if fax ever got around to finishing that alternate stdlib
23:30:10 <elliott> wait, i actually implemented a good part of it
23:30:15 <elliott> but then got lost implementing category theory ...
23:30:22 <ais523> yay category theory
23:31:02 <ais523> there's a quote by, IIRC Milner (of type inference fame), along the lines of "the only thing worse than not using category theory is using too much category theory"
23:31:22 <ais523> and if you go to a CS conference, you'll likely agree with it
23:31:23 <elliott> ais523: that can be solved by using even more category theory
23:31:36 <ais523> elliott: like violence, XML, and Elbereth?
23:31:44 <elliott> ais523: yep!
23:31:47 <elliott> ais523: except not XML.
23:32:26 <ais523> elliott: probably not violence either
23:32:36 <elliott> ais523: well it depends on your goals!
23:32:38 <oerjan> now if you use all three you should be all set
23:32:42 <elliott> j-invariant: anyway i'm not sure native quotient types are _vital_
23:32:43 <ais523> and the Elbereth thing is statistical, rather than always correct
23:32:56 <elliott> j-invariant: I mean, they're very nice, but I think Coq can be useful without them.
23:33:28 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> rewrite is vital
23:33:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Indeed it is, but I ended up overusing it painfully.
23:33:44 <ais523> elliott: the sequel to the paper I linked you to quotients the nonnegative integers over the relation 0 === 0 and 1 === 1 and x >=2 and y >= 2 implies x === y
23:33:58 <ais523> which is useful, because addition and multiplication quotient just fine with that relation
23:34:15 <elliott> ais523: that is the most hideously convoluted way to define that set I can think of :-)
23:34:23 <ais523> well, it was a one-liner
23:34:31 <ais523> I suppose I could have just given all the cases
23:34:40 <ais523> but then I'd have to prove it worked the same way as ordinary arithmetic
23:34:50 <elliott> ais523: exercise left to the etc.
23:34:57 <ais523> you can't do that in a conference paper!
23:35:05 <ais523> or, at least, if you're famous enough you probably can
23:35:09 <ais523> but you shouldn't
23:35:26 <elliott> all papers should be one page long, and all the boring details should be left as exercises
23:35:27 <Gracenotes> you put that in the future directions section
23:35:28 <ais523> it seems that half of getting a paper published is to find someone famous as a co-author
23:35:35 <Gracenotes> or pay a grad student to put it in an appendix
23:35:35 <ais523> because it increases the chance it's accepted
23:35:39 <elliott> ais523: and thankfully, your co-author found you!
23:35:43 <ais523> haha
23:35:52 <ais523> other way round in this case, I'm not yet famous on the theoretical CS circuits
23:35:55 <elliott> ais523: one of the top -- nay, the top! -- Z-list computer science celebrities
23:36:07 <elliott> ais523: well anything to do with Wolfram is /just/ enough to reach the Z-list
23:36:15 <ais523> we're thinking about possibly submitting the next paper to ICFP
23:36:16 <Gracenotes> ooh Wolfram, you don't say
23:36:34 <elliott> Gracenotes: erm i'm presuming you know who ais523 is
23:36:36 <ais523> and so we need to find someone who's famous there to help coauthor the paper
23:36:40 <Gracenotes> ais523: what is this paper? <3 ICFP. I went to it this year. Next year might be a stretch :/
23:36:56 <Gracenotes> elliott: ... Wikipedian ex-administrator? esolangs hobbyist? :P
23:36:57 <ais523> elliott: actually, I'd expect Gracenotes to have a below-average probability of knowing who I am
23:37:02 <elliott> Gracenotes: Wolfram Prize solver?
23:37:07 <elliott> *winner?
23:37:09 <ais523> due to the Wikipedia connection
23:37:13 <elliott> ais523: good point
23:37:19 <ais523> given that there was an article on me there for a while
23:37:20 <Gracenotes> wow. You mean.. Turing-completeness of triange automata thing?
23:37:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Gracenotes, he proved that teensy Turing machine thingy was universal.
23:37:25 <elliott> Gracenotes: yes
23:37:31 <ais523> I was especially certain to a) not interfere with the article, and b) not let anyone know I was notable
23:37:33 <elliott> ais523: re: ICFP, just say, "this guy i know had a server that hosted the ICFP challenge ISO a few years ago, and I had a shell account on it"
23:37:35 <Gracenotes> I read that article. it was impressive.
23:37:38 <elliott> ais523: sure-fire way to get in
23:37:42 <elliott> Gracenotes: article? do you mean paper?
23:37:48 <Gracenotes> the article on the paper.
23:37:49 <elliott> or do you mean wolfram's self-congratulatory vomit about it?
23:37:56 <elliott> that was far from impressive ...
23:38:21 <ais523> elliott: heh, I've only /just/ got the reference, thanks for that, anyway
23:38:35 <ais523> (also, the article on me was deleted, correctly IMO, per WP:BLP1)
23:38:36 <Gracenotes> NO
23:38:38 <elliott> ais523: that was rather obvious, I would have thought
23:38:40 <elliott> ais523: no, it was redirected
23:38:45 <elliott> to the article about the prize, IIRC
23:38:47 <ais523> well, merge/redirect
23:38:49 <Gracenotes> ais523: yes.. you wouldn't want ehird vandalizing
23:38:57 <ais523> that's what you're supposed to do for someone who's only famous for one thing
23:38:59 <Gracenotes> inserting libel
23:39:01 <elliott> Gracenotes: erm i am ehird :D
23:39:04 <Gracenotes> I know
23:39:15 <elliott> ais523: then why does paris hilton have an article?
23:39:17 <elliott> anyway
23:39:21 <Gracenotes> I will call you ehird. even if I can't tab complete it.
23:39:22 <ais523> she's famous for more than one thing
23:39:30 <elliott> well, she's famous for one thing, and then for being famous
23:39:32 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: just like the rest of the universe, surely
23:39:33 <elliott> because of it
23:39:33 <ais523> indeed
23:39:41 <elliott> ais523: It occurs to me that you are one of probably very few Wikipedia admins to have an article ...
23:39:47 <j-invariant> elliott: have you seen this lambda calculus? http://arxiv.org/abs/1012.0929
23:39:47 <elliott> Jimbo does, I think Angela does...
23:39:54 <oerjan> wolfram is secretly equivalent to a paperclip AI
23:39:55 <ais523> there's at least one other who does and isn't Wikimedia-connected, and I don't
23:40:00 <ais523> oerjan: clippy/
23:40:02 <elliott> j-invariant: no, looks like it's time to hurt my head
23:40:03 <ais523> *clippy?
23:40:07 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, yes, but ais523 is his favourite.
23:40:16 <elliott> ais523: paperclip AI = AI that wants to fill the universe with paperclips, because it thinks paperclips are good
23:40:23 <elliott> <ais523> there's at least one other who does and isn't Wikimedia-connected, and I don't
23:40:25 <elliott> you don't what?
23:40:28 <ais523> have an article
23:40:41 <ais523> even a redirect's a little dubious, due to the unwieldiness of the dab clause
23:40:53 <ais523> not to mention, there aren't any really reliable sources about me but the Wolfram press releases
23:41:02 <ais523> and although accurate, they're not exactly thorough
23:41:09 <ais523> (because I didn't tell them all that much :p)
23:41:18 <oerjan> dab?
23:41:26 <ais523> disambiguation
23:41:34 <oerjan> mhm
23:41:36 <ais523> the acronym's used because everyone hates typing all that out
23:41:39 <Gracenotes> seriously.. it's wonderful you're publishing papers... there's no chance I'll be able to go to ICFP next year though :/
23:41:53 <elliott> ais523: I'm surprised Wolfram didn't ask you to put the Mathematica code before the Perl.
23:41:57 <ais523> Gracenotes: once published, one accepted but still undergoing the process
23:42:04 <ais523> elliott: perhaps it's because the Mathematica code doesn't actually work
23:42:07 <ais523> or at least, it does
23:42:10 <ais523> but so slowly that it's useless
23:42:16 <Gracenotes> ais523: what's it about?
23:42:37 <Gracenotes> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Smith_%28The_Simplest_Universal_Computer_Proof_contest_winner%29 -- that's quite a parenthesization :)
23:42:38 <ais523> Gracenotes: compiling software to hardware
23:42:39 <elliott> Gracenotes: ais523 embeds a useless dialect of ALGOL into functional silicon these days :P
23:42:42 <zzo38> I don't like Wolfram, he tried to control all mathematics so that everyone else has to be pay him for big software that fills up the computer and cannot be adjusted.
23:42:47 <elliott> zzo38: What.
23:43:01 <ais523> elliott: it's not useless, you can compile things into it
23:43:03 <j-invariant> I don't understand how it is simplest?
23:43:06 <elliott> ais523: I'm joking.
23:43:15 <elliott> j-invariant: 'cuz it's SMALL, man!
23:43:16 <ais523> although I admit trying to write idealized algol directly is painful
23:43:20 <Gracenotes> ais523: resulting hardware is efficient?
23:43:32 <ais523> Gracenotes: it's getting better
23:43:42 <ais523> it's not fundamentally inefficient, but doesn't do pipelining yet
23:43:54 <ais523> which is a bit of a showstopper
23:44:02 <ais523> guess what I'm working on after I've finished implementing recursion?
23:44:09 <j-invariant> oh it means (i,j)-turing machine with i,j smallest
23:44:37 <zzo38> elliott: Do you know how large program Mathematica is? Did you read the copyright notice in New Kind of Science? The note says you are not allowed to write these programs in a different programming language.
23:44:49 <ais523> zzo38: the copyright notice in ANKOS is insane
23:44:56 <elliott> zzo38: does it?
23:44:57 <elliott> haha
23:45:01 <ais523> I mean, it tries to prevent people using the ideas in the book in different contexts
23:45:02 <elliott> zzo38: but ANKOS isn't mathematics anyway
23:45:06 <elliott> so he's not controlling mathematics
23:45:13 <elliott> also, that doesn't sound like a valid copyright statement to me
23:45:15 <ais523> and I'm pretty sure you can't do that with copyright
23:45:24 <ais523> elliott: of course it isn't, it's science! a new kind, to be precise!
23:45:39 <elliott> ais523: it's new because it's other people's!
23:45:51 <j-invariant> http://www.wolframscience.com/reference/notes/1164b
23:46:10 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:46:19 <elliott> j-invariant: what's the relevance of that page?
23:46:38 <j-invariant> the very last paragraph "I just generated a bunch of diophantine equations and they didn't look very interesting to me"
23:46:55 <j-invariant> it's absolutely absurd
23:46:55 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
23:47:05 <ais523> Wolfram's judgement as to how interesting something is is based on how likely it is to behave interestingly with random input
23:47:13 <elliott> j-invariant: heh
23:47:28 <ais523> I still think the page of ANKOS which has a random SK combinator calculus expression and draws its evolution as a graph is hilarious
23:47:36 <elliott> haha
23:47:40 <ais523> well, not exactly graph
23:47:42 <elliott> let's try random C++ programs next
23:47:51 <ais523> the string representation was converted to colors, and drawn as one of those bitmap things
23:48:07 <ais523> umm, I think what I'm saying is still technically incorrect, but you know what I mean anyway
23:48:51 <elliott> How silley.
23:48:59 <elliott> was it with `fx style or (fx)?
23:49:16 <ais523> neither, it was Mathematica syntax, of course
23:49:20 <ais523> you could have guessed that...
23:49:26 <elliott> ais523: groan
23:49:54 <ais523> so i would be S[K][K], I think
23:49:57 <ais523> my Mathematica's pretty rusty
23:50:12 <ais523> because I have no incentive to learn a language I have to pay to use, pretty much
23:50:18 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: Quit).
23:51:12 <ais523> hmm, now I have an esolang idea
23:51:18 <ineiros> elliott, Vorpal, fizzie and others; regarding my previous comment on teleporting: do what you will but try not to crash the server; I can't be restarting it all the time and it might actually not like being killed all the time.
23:51:21 <ais523> it's mostly a sane language, but every time you run a program you have to send me $10
23:51:28 <ais523> and that's part of the language spec
23:51:37 <ais523> hopefully I should become rich by people trying to implement it
23:51:45 <elliott> ais523: withProps :: (Map ByteString ByteString -> Map ByteString ByteString) -> Object -> Object or withProps :: Object -> (Map ByteString ByteString -> Map ByteString ByteString) -> Object
23:51:52 <elliott> ais523: (Object is just a newtype around Map ByteString ByteString)
23:51:57 <elliott> i rely on you for all my argument ordering decisions
23:52:08 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
23:52:14 <Phantom_Hoover> <ais523> because I have no incentive to learn a language I have to pay to use, pretty much
23:52:16 <ais523> the first, I suspect
23:52:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Not if you break the law!
23:52:29 <ais523> as it seems more likely for partial application that way round
23:52:35 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: then I'd be paying in happiness
23:52:52 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, just cast away your absurd moral code!
23:52:55 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b #esoteric!*@*.
23:52:58 <ais523> I've actually thought about the random comment someone made in here about me being Lawful Good quite a bit
23:53:02 <elliott> i... don't think that works, oerjan
23:53:04 <oerjan> argh
23:53:07 <elliott> :D
23:53:08 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b #esoteric!*@*.
23:53:10 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: Mathematica is going to waste your entire computer whether or not you pay.
23:53:11 <ais523> oerjan: don't you mean +m?
23:53:14 <elliott> *!*@* looks more right
23:53:18 <elliott> ais523: banning everyone sounds more fun
23:53:29 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, well, it's not that bad.
23:53:33 <oerjan> ais523: i forgot the command to list the bans
23:53:34 <ais523> I think it's a) quite a harsh accusation to make, yet b) quite possibly correct
23:53:43 <elliott> ais523: Lawful Good is an *accusation*?
23:53:55 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*Sgeo@*.dyn.optonline.net.
23:54:03 <elliott> oerjan: aw dammit why did you have to go and do that
23:54:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo was banned?
23:54:11 <ais523> why was Sgeo banned?
23:54:15 <elliott> ais523: he asked to be
23:54:21 <elliott> if he gave into the temptation to IRC when homeworking
23:54:23 <ais523> ah
23:54:27 <elliott> and he did, saying he would homework and IRC simultaneously
23:54:30 <elliott> then oerjan ninja'd him a few minutes later
23:54:31 <ais523> I once asked for ops on a channel so I could kickban myself
23:54:37 <elliott> ais523: was it #nethack? I forget
23:54:39 <ais523> no
23:54:41 <oerjan> elliott: he said he'd do homework until friday or maybe saturday
23:55:08 <oerjan> i don't recall the exact wording
23:55:20 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
23:55:51 <elliott> aw dammit j-invariant, you've got me thinking about my category theory in Coq ... and now I just want Epigram to be ready
23:57:04 <j-invariant> I am not convinced a general purpose language that lets you write proofs can actually exist
23:58:35 <zzo38> j-invariant: Why do you think that?
23:58:50 <j-invariant> there always seems to be something essential missing, as soon as you get your hands dirty
23:59:19 <zzo38> j-invariant: What kind of things get missing?
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