←2010-12-30 2010-12-31 2011-01-01→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:00:02 <zzo38> Vorpal: TANGLE is the program to convert the WEB file into the Pascal file.
00:00:12 <Vorpal> ah
00:00:19 -!- Wamanuz4 has joined.
00:00:49 <oerjan> zzo38: my hunch is that Memfractal is turing complete, although i'm not entirely sure if four exits is enough or not
00:01:39 <zzo38> oerjan: If not, could having multiple blocks help?
00:01:42 <oerjan> zzo38: i assume all bits start as 0?
00:02:04 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes all bits start as 0 (unless initial state says otherwise) (probably it should be mentioned)
00:02:06 <elliott_> oh, ais523!
00:02:08 <elliott_> ais523: when did you come in?
00:02:19 <oerjan> what do you mean by multiple blocks?
00:02:23 <zzo38> (Initial state includes input state)
00:02:47 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
00:02:48 <oerjan> zzo38: ok so some of the bits might be set dependent on input?
00:03:07 <zzo38> oerjan: By multiple blocks, I mean that instead of one block, you have two rectangles which are two blocks and possibly have some new command to select one.
00:03:31 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes some bits might be set on input. But if you are using with no input, it is all 0 at the start.
00:03:37 <oerjan> zzo38: so + would select one of them and some other command the other?
00:04:06 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes maybe + selects one and some other command select the other.
00:04:21 <oerjan> it might not be necessary though
00:04:35 <zzo38> Yes I was thinking too, I don't know if it is necessary or not.
00:05:27 <Vorpal> try to implement a TC language in it?
00:05:48 <Vorpal> not sure how though, but BCT is probably a good target
00:06:28 <oerjan> i wouldn't do BCT, the fractal connections don't fit a queue very well
00:06:35 <Vorpal> oerjan, hm true
00:06:40 <Vorpal> oerjan, any better suggestion?
00:06:49 <oerjan> a tape might be easy
00:07:12 -!- Sasha has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
00:07:21 <Vorpal> zzo38, when does the program end? (does it end at all?)
00:07:35 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:07:46 <oerjan> i assumed it would end if you left the top program?
00:07:55 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes you are correct
00:08:15 <Vorpal> ah
00:09:37 <zzo38> Can anyone make a Free emulation of the environment used in Knuth's TeX that can compile the program without changes and can treat file areas and so on in the way the TeX program does, and can save the program image (as described in section 1331 of TeX: The Program)?
00:11:16 <elliott_> No.
00:11:20 <elliott_> Nobody can do that.
00:13:11 <Vorpal> well technically someone could. But would be tricky and pointless
00:13:45 <elliott_> Vorpal: No.
00:13:46 -!- Wamanuz5 has joined.
00:13:48 <elliott_> It is physically impossible.
00:13:50 <elliott_> Silly.
00:13:52 <Vorpal> elliott_, why?
00:13:56 <elliott_> That is why zzo38 does not need to ask any more questions about it.
00:13:59 <elliott_> Because it is impossible.
00:14:02 <elliott_> So we can drop the subject, obviously!
00:14:09 <elliott_> Vorpal: Don't you agree?
00:14:16 <Vorpal> elliott_, oh. true
00:14:37 <zzo38> Even though I have MiKTeX installed here (and Live TeX at Free Geek), it is too large and contains a lot of extra stuff
00:14:43 <Vorpal> elliott_, it's the third law of thermodynamics right?
00:14:47 -!- Sasha has joined.
00:14:47 <elliott_> Vorpal: Yes.
00:14:48 <zzo38> elliott_: I am sure it is not impossible.
00:14:54 <elliott_> zzo38: I think it is.
00:14:56 <elliott_> Because of physics.
00:15:11 <zzo38> Because of physics?
00:15:34 <elliott_> Yes.
00:16:30 <zzo38> No, I think it is possible for sure. Maybe it is even possible to modify GNU Pascal to work in this way.
00:16:44 -!- Wamanuz4 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
00:16:50 <hagb4rd> not impossible but improbable
00:18:43 <hagb4rd> due to leak of motivation
00:19:19 <elliott_> hagb4rd: No.
00:19:23 <elliott_> hagb4rd: Impossible.
00:19:30 <hagb4rd> okay okay
00:19:39 -!- Sasha2 has joined.
00:19:59 <zzo38> It isn't impossible.
00:20:20 -!- Sasha has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
00:20:27 <hagb4rd> no need to argue
00:20:51 <hagb4rd> want some cookies?
00:20:52 <oerjan> zzo38: oh hm i see memfractal is reversible. that might complicate things...
00:20:58 * hagb4rd offers
00:22:55 <elliott_> yay tex live has almost downloaded
00:23:00 <elliott_> then i can continue reinventing package managers, badly
00:23:06 <elliott_> at least i don't need to worry about dependencies
00:23:25 <cheater99> vhdl must be the ugliest language on earth
00:23:28 <zzo38> Is there any small TeX distribution that works?
00:25:58 <elliott_> Vorpal: mactex is 3 gigs unpacked apparently
00:25:58 -!- Sasha2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
00:25:59 <elliott_> and installed
00:27:03 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:27:26 <zzo38> I mean, without LaTeX, PDF, kpathsea, PostScript, BibTeX, fontconfig, and all that stuff.
00:29:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
00:29:24 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
00:30:16 <elliott_> tar: Unrecognized archive format: Inappropriate file type or format
00:30:17 <elliott_> wtf.
00:30:50 <Sgeo> Obviously, the file type is porn
00:30:54 -!- elliott_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:31:34 -!- elliott has joined.
00:31:55 <zzo38> They added a JPEG header by mistake and it just happens so to make pornography when you do that????? I don't think so.
00:32:08 <Vorpal> no... tiff header
00:33:13 <zzo38> Vorpal: O, it is tiff header.
00:33:35 <Vorpal> zzo38, do you know what a joke is?
00:35:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, no, he does not. Nor does he know that none of us care about any of his software.
00:35:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Or he knows and he doesn't care.
00:36:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:36:15 <zzo38> Vorpal: I know a joke. I write my own joke too.
00:36:37 <Vorpal> oh
00:37:05 <elliott> zzo38 doesn't read other people's jokes, he just writes his own
00:40:08 <elliott> Vorpal: ...does curl keep an internal cache?
00:40:16 <elliott> It seems to be downloading this file suspiciously quickly.
00:41:44 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:42:44 <Vorpal> elliott, I very much doubt it
00:42:46 <variable> anyone used https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/ -> any recs?
00:43:08 <elliott> I've seen plenty of people recommend it. It's probably the best choice ... if you want to get shared web hosting, but why would you want that?
00:43:13 <elliott> Get a VPS.
00:43:18 <elliott> http://prgmr.com/xen/
00:44:08 <elliott> Vorpal: Are you *sure*? :p
00:44:40 <elliott> The requested URL /debian/pool/main/d/dblatex/dblatex_0.3.orig.tar.bz2 was not found on this server.
00:44:41 <elliott> what
00:44:53 <Vorpal> elliott, no I'm no curl expert
00:44:55 <elliott> wait.
00:44:58 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
00:44:58 <elliott> does curl not exit 1 on 404???
00:45:12 <Vorpal> elliott, HOW SHOULD I KNOW?!
00:45:14 <Vorpal> check docs
00:45:16 <elliott> Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air:~ ehird$ curl -O http://www.se.kernel.org/debian/pool/main/d/dblatex/dblatex_0.3.orig.tar.bz2
00:45:17 <elliott> % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
00:45:17 <elliott> Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
00:45:18 <elliott> 113 340 113 340 0 0 1211 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 3908
00:45:20 <elliott> Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air:~ ehird$ echo $?
00:45:22 <elliott> 0
00:45:24 <elliott> that is fucking retarded
00:47:39 <Vorpal> try wget
00:48:39 <Deewiant> Use --fail
00:48:44 <elliott> $ for prog in /usr/local/texlive/2010/bin/x86_64-darwin/*; do ln -s $prog /usr/local/bin; done
00:48:49 <elliott> Vorpal: OS X doesn't ship with wget, so no. :-)
00:48:54 <elliott> Deewiant: Heh.
00:49:00 <elliott> Deewiant: Shouldn't it be --disable-fail :)
00:49:07 <Vorpal> elliott, ah
00:49:12 <Deewiant> It successfully fetched the 404 page
00:49:26 <Deewiant> And the docs for --fail say that it doesn't always work
00:49:30 <elliott> X-D
00:49:40 <elliott> Good to see curl is so mature.
00:50:08 <elliott> Groan, it /does/ remember where it was installed.
00:50:58 <Vorpal> elliott, what does, stow?
00:51:05 <zzo38> I found that someone did manage to compile TeX with GNU Pascal.
00:52:26 <elliott> Vorpal: No, dblatex.
00:52:40 <elliott> python setup.py install --prefix=/opt --destdir=../dest
00:52:40 <elliott> mkdir /opt/stow/$pkg
00:52:40 <elliott> cp -R ../dest/opt/* /opt/stow/$pkg
00:52:43 <elliott> Like a boss.
00:53:04 <Vorpal> elliott, the final boss of the game?
00:53:08 <Vorpal> or a miniboss?
00:53:15 <Vorpal> or just a boss?
00:53:24 <elliott> COOL IT DOESN'T DO --DESTDIR
00:53:31 <elliott> Vorpal: Like a boss.
00:53:36 <Vorpal> ... it doesn't do destdir?
00:53:54 <Vorpal> elliott, does mcmap do destdir?
00:54:22 <elliott> Vorpal: mcmap doesn't do install. So no.
00:54:38 <elliott> --install-base base installation directory (instead of --prefix or --
00:54:39 <elliott> home)
00:54:39 <elliott> --install-platbase base installation directory for platform-specific files
00:54:40 <elliott> (instead of --exec-prefix or --home)
00:54:43 <elliott> I can see this is going to be fun and not painful at all.
00:55:03 <elliott> The single good thing about autotools is that it stops people too stupid to exist from creating their own systems.
00:55:14 <elliott> Apparently being a Pythonisticator overrides that.
00:55:27 <Vorpal> elliott, wait, isn't it setuputils or whatever the standard python thing is called?
00:56:45 * nooga is trying Aardappel
00:56:58 <elliott> Vorpal: distutils.
00:57:10 <Vorpal> elliott, ah
00:57:14 <elliott> setuptools is an extension to distuti^W^W^W^W something we should all try and forget ever happened.
01:00:02 <Vorpal> elliott, is it an extension to something we should try to forget
01:00:10 <Vorpal> or do you mean it is something we should try to forget
01:00:11 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
01:00:11 <elliott> ^W
01:00:14 <elliott> the latter
01:02:43 <Vorpal> elliott, why is setuptools bad?
01:03:10 <elliott> Vorpal: oh god. so many reasons. easy_install is the worst program ever written. and the command-line wrappers it installs take like 1s to just find the program
01:03:13 <elliott> 's classes
01:03:26 <elliott> it should be noted, for instance, that easy_install comes without an easy_uninstall.
01:03:35 <elliott> in fact, installation requires manually editing a generated file, and removing a directory.
01:03:38 <elliott> *uninstallation
01:05:33 <elliott> oh god this is awful
01:07:40 <Sgeo> This is supposed to be an upsetting scene, I think, but I got distracted by the crappy CPR
01:09:16 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:09:52 -!- elliott has joined.
01:12:43 <elliott> OKAY SOEONE FIX THIS REOJGEG]\E[PE]E[4
01:12:43 <elliott> 44
01:13:07 <Vorpal> elliott, change the O to an U and the J to a G
01:13:08 <elliott> ahahahahahaa!!
01:13:10 <Vorpal> fixed
01:13:13 <elliott> I GOT IT LIKE A JUNGLE
01:13:22 <Vorpal> elliott, ??
01:13:50 <elliott> python setup.py install --prefix=/opt --root=../root
01:13:51 <elliott> mkdir -p /opt/stow/$pkg
01:13:51 <elliott> cp -R ../root/opt/* /opt/stow/$pkg
01:17:07 * elliott removes version numbers from his packages
01:17:09 <elliott> more simplar!!
01:17:52 <elliott> there, it all works now
01:19:43 <elliott> Vorpal: is it sane to have an autotools source directory as a subdirectory of the build directory? >:)
01:22:07 <Vorpal> elliott, I think GCC will hate you at least
01:22:30 <elliott> Vorpal: ghc hates anyone who even _looks_ at its build system. even it knows that it's the worst ever.
01:22:36 <elliott> erm
01:22:37 <elliott> *gcc
01:22:40 <elliott> I don't know how GCC devs even cope.
01:22:55 <Vorpal> elliott, I meant the gcc build system
01:22:57 <elliott> a million-line shell script that always recompiles the entire source tree would be faster and easier to use
01:22:58 <elliott> I know
01:23:41 <olsner> gcc's build system is saner than ghc's IMO
01:24:17 <olsner> but it has some slightly silly requirements, like only working for out-of-source builds
01:24:25 <elliott> olsner: GHC's got completely modernised lately, dude
01:24:33 <elliott> ./configure && make && make install is now perfectly sane
01:24:41 <elliott> it /used/ to be a right mess
01:24:49 <elliott> olsner: if you're referring to the ghc dependency, well ... not much you can do about that
01:24:56 <olsner> sure, but I think it's not completely modernised, and not sufficiently modern :P
01:25:05 <elliott> olsner: what's suboptimal about it?
01:25:23 <elliott> configure: WARNING: cannot find DocBook XSL stylesheets, you will not be able to build the documentation
01:25:26 <elliott> configure: WARNING: cannot find hasktags in your PATH, you will not be able to build the tags
01:25:28 <elliott> todo: fix
01:25:30 <elliott> also hscolor
01:28:26 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
01:30:41 <olsner> personally mostly that parallel builds aren't properly parallel, but there are other diffuse signs of ugliness
01:30:59 <olsner> I think something with the makefile generation through cabal was screwy last time I built
01:32:43 <elliott> JESUS CHRIST @ docbook-xsl's install.sh
01:33:41 <elliott> ok what is an xml catalog an why do i need it
01:35:35 <elliott> olsner: omfg xml is the worst, did you know
01:36:23 <olsner> elliott: let's just say I've used ant...
01:36:34 <elliott> olsner: yeah but that's not even the worst!
01:36:42 <elliott> olsner: the worst is schema xsl catalogue files xsltproc
01:40:33 <elliott> +dh_installxmlcatalogs
01:40:33 <elliott> +# upstream ships {param,pi,table}.xml as example for DocBook
01:40:33 <elliott> +# because we don't need them inside docbook-xsl, we exclude them
01:40:35 <elliott> +dh_install -Xparam.xml -Xpi.xml -Xtable.xml -XChangeLog* -X.param.* -X.lib.* -X.gitignore
01:40:45 <elliott> Debian -- hiding things away in macros so you can't see how the fuck to build things since 1993.
01:41:44 <cheater99> verilog looks much nicer than vhdl.
01:41:47 <Ilari> Heh.. "It always amazes me that someone as perceptive on blood glucose, and indirectly on blood insulin, as Dr Davis can still believe the lipid hypothesis. Really believe. Fascinating."
01:42:39 * elliott looks at the arch build scripts for this
01:42:40 <elliott> omg what is this
01:42:48 <elliott> this is awful
01:42:50 <elliott> this is in fact the worst
01:44:10 <Sgeo> No, a Linux distro heavily reliant on PSOX would ... *gets shot by elliott*
01:44:32 <cheater99> is verilog turing complete?
01:44:51 <Vorpal> Ilari, that went completely over my head (or maybe on the side of it)
01:45:09 <cheater99> i guess you can implement a microprocessor in it, upon which you can implement a turing complete assembler
01:45:18 <Vorpal> ...
01:45:26 <cheater99> so it should be turing complete, right?
01:45:38 <Vorpal> cheater99, no actual hardware can be TC.
01:45:56 <elliott> cheater99: verilog is sub-TC.
01:45:56 <Vorpal> I'm pretty sure neither verilog nor vhdl are actually TC.
01:46:04 <cheater99> elliott: what can it not do?
01:46:10 <elliott> as ais523 can explain but i wouldn't recommend him to due to it being a waste of time due to the target.
01:46:45 <cheater99> the target of this conversation being you showing off that you're a prissy brat?
01:47:01 <elliott> so edgy.
01:47:01 <Vorpal> elliott, was it docbook-xml or docbook-xsl?
01:47:03 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:47:06 <elliott> Vorpal: -xsl.
01:47:19 <ais523> elliott: it probably is TC via the not-for-synthesis features
01:47:23 <Vorpal> elliott, the PKGBUILD seems to be manual install commands?
01:47:26 <ais523> unless it's incapable of dynamic allocation, which wouldn't surprise me
01:47:38 <elliott> ais523: I'm pretty sure it is, isn't it?
01:47:39 <ais523> but the "because it can be used to make a microprocessor" is bogus reasoning as microprocessors aren't TC
01:47:44 <Vorpal> <cheater99> the target of this conversation being you showing off that you're a prissy brat? <-- not brat no
01:47:48 <elliott> I don't think VHDL is capable of dynamic allocation is it?
01:48:02 <ais523> elliott: I'm not too sure about its not-for-synthesis features
01:48:02 <Vorpal> (seriously, and I never thought I'd say this, do try to get along the two of you)
01:48:05 <elliott> Vorpal: cheater doesn't like me because i call him a troll when he trolls.
01:48:06 <cheater99> ais523: no, but things that run on them can be
01:48:16 <ais523> it wouldn't surprise me if you could make arbitrary length strings, for instance
01:48:21 <elliott> sometimes i think the lack of moderation in here is a bad thing :)
01:48:27 <ais523> cheater99: no they can't, because they wouldn't be able to access infinite storage
01:48:38 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
01:48:45 <elliott> ITT: cheater99 doesn't know what Turing complete means
01:48:47 <ais523> you can run a BF interp on a processor, but it would eventually run out of memory if you kept extending the tape
01:49:20 <cheater99> ais523: but no concrete implementation of a language has access to infinite storage
01:49:36 <ais523> cheater99: indeed
01:49:48 <cheater99> so that would mean you imply no language is TC
01:49:58 <ais523> no concrete implementation is TC, indeed
01:50:09 <ais523> being TC is a property of languages in theory, not in practice
01:50:35 <cheater99> but in theory for every program that needs to be executed a microcontroller with enough storage could be programmed in verilog
01:50:38 <ais523> you can also talk about bounded-storage machines, which are ill-defined, but effectively "machines that would be TC except for the possibility of running out of memory"
01:50:50 <elliott> autoconf question: If I have an X system, and want to build a compiler as an X executable, that outputs X executables, _but_ it's bootstrapping from a Y compiler
01:50:52 <ais523> cheater99: yep, verilog counts as a bounded-storage machine for that reason
01:50:54 <elliott> what's BUILD, HOST, TARGET?
01:51:02 <elliott> X=64-bit and Y=32-bit in this case
01:51:07 <ais523> build = Y, host = X, target = X
01:51:12 <Vorpal> elliott, uh. that is a canadian cross
01:51:14 <elliott> ais523: thanks
01:51:15 <elliott> Vorpal: no it's not
01:51:19 <Vorpal> wait no
01:51:20 <ais523> Vorpal: no it isn't
01:51:20 <Vorpal> duh
01:51:24 <ais523> canadian cross requires three systems
01:51:25 <olsner> BUILD is where you build it, HOST is where you run it, TARGET is what it builds when run
01:51:28 <Vorpal> it is just cross compiling a native compiler
01:51:30 <elliott> Vorpal: I have a 64-bit system, and want a 64-bit compiler; I just happen to have a 32-bit compiler to build it with
01:51:36 <elliott> ais523 is right I think
01:51:43 <cheater99> ais523: but the memory doesn't need to be bounded. when you're executing and run out of memory, freeze the turing machine just before the allocation fails, and transplant it onto a bigger host.
01:51:58 <ais523> cheater99: then doing that would be part of the impl itself
01:51:59 <Vorpal> ais523, well, no. 2 does it. on X build a compiler that will run on Y and will target X
01:52:06 <Vorpal> ais523, as far as I know that is a canadian cross too
01:52:12 <cheater99> ais523: you can certainly implement that in verilog.
01:52:14 <ais523> and I don't think you can have a /concrete/ impl that does that
01:52:17 <ais523> Vorpal: that's a crossback
01:52:22 <Vorpal> ais523, oh okay
01:52:46 <olsner> Vorpal: I think canadian cross is only when you build a cross-compiler using a cross-compiler, in this case he's just cross-compiling a normal compiler
01:53:00 <ais523> indeed
01:53:05 <ais523> "cross-compiling a compiler" is the best description
01:53:11 <ais523> it's more or less the same as cross-compiling anything else
01:53:40 <elliott> btw, canadian cross has the worst etymology ever
01:53:43 <elliott> discovered by cpressey
01:53:46 <ais523> I've done the YXX combination with C-INTERCAL before, in order to test it (where Y = x86-32, X = ARM, as I happened to have an x86 to ARM crosscompiler handy)
01:53:49 <elliott> basically
01:53:51 <ais523> elliott: it's a reference to the canadian political system
01:53:55 <elliott> at the time, canada had three main political parties
01:53:55 <ais523> according to the gcc manual
01:53:57 <elliott> and also
01:54:01 <elliott> there are three architectures involved
01:54:05 <elliott> I mean ... that is so stupid
01:54:22 <Vorpal> ais523, I thought it was a reference to the red cross?
01:54:23 <elliott> why not call it a ménage à compiler?
01:54:25 <elliott> that makes about as much sense
01:54:27 <ais523> elliott: to me it fits in the "this is vaguely similar, let's call one after the other" strategy
01:54:27 <elliott> Vorpal: ...
01:54:35 <ais523> s/strategy/category/
01:55:05 <Vorpal> red cross would work. You need band aid after doing a canadian cross
01:55:06 <elliott> ais523: Ménage à compiler!
01:55:10 <cheater99> ais523: have you read "cryptonomicon"?
01:55:12 <olsner> shouldn't that be compiler à trois? or was it flipped intentionally?
01:55:22 <cheater99> ais523: it's a book that features a fictional version of alan turing.
01:55:29 <elliott> olsner: it's the Bad Etymology game
01:55:33 <elliott> of course it shouldn't make more sense
01:55:39 <elliott> ais523: Have you read "SICP"?
01:55:46 <ais523> elliott: I haven't
01:55:46 <elliott> ais523: It's a book that features a real version of Sussman.
01:55:51 <ais523> I've never come across a copy, and it would take a while
01:55:53 <elliott> *The Sussman.
01:56:13 <olsner> "The Sussman"?
01:56:47 <elliott> olsner: Yes.
01:57:03 <elliott> olsner: Technically it should be [b]The Sussman[/b] but IRC doesn't support the requisite International Standard for BBCode.
01:57:08 * oerjan wonders if anyone has ever tried to name their child "The"
01:58:20 <elliott> GO GO GHC BUIL
01:58:20 <elliott> D
01:58:22 <elliott> I HAVE AN SSD
01:58:24 <elliott> THUSLY YOU GO FAST
01:58:26 <olsner> elliott: but what's The Sussman?
01:58:28 <elliott> WOOOOOOOOO ROCKET POWER
01:58:40 <Vorpal> elliott, did you use -pipe, to save on the SSD?
01:58:44 <Vorpal> elliott, (for gcc that is)
01:58:49 <elliott> olsner: The Sussman is the man otherwise known as ``Gerald Jay Sussman''.
01:59:01 <elliott> Vorpal: No. It'll only compile the runtime system with gcc anyway, the rest is all GHC.
01:59:07 <elliott> Vorpal: Besides, SSDs are smart.
01:59:08 <ais523> elliott: why use BBcode when you can do this?
01:59:16 <elliott> ais523: +c, silly
01:59:17 <olsner> elliott: oh, I see what you mean
01:59:24 <zzo38> YOu can use CTRL+B for emphasis in IRC, some clients will accept it, some won't because it is not part of the main RFC for IRC.
01:59:25 <ais523> elliott: I thought that didn't block bolding
01:59:27 <ais523> just colors
01:59:29 <elliott> ais523: It blocks everything.
01:59:33 <ais523> ah
01:59:40 <Vorpal> zzo38, this channel will filter it
01:59:44 <ais523> I know my client blocks colors, but not bolding
01:59:47 <elliott> Which is probably for the best; when I'm on Jabber I abuse italics to ridiculous extent.
01:59:49 <zzo38> Then use CTRL+A
02:00:01 <ais523> elliott: I've been told off for using /slash italics/ excessively
02:00:01 <olsner> but he's not actually *in* the book, is he? as far as I understand he just (co-)wrote it?
02:00:02 <elliott> Woo, the fan realised I was using the computational power of my CPU and has decided to start going.
02:00:08 <zzo38> Or any other control character which is not blockde.
02:00:09 <ais523> in all sorts of contexts, not just Usenet
02:00:12 <elliott> olsner: His beautiful voice comes through in the text!
02:00:12 <Sgeo> test
02:00:24 <ais523> elliott: you aren't on the toshiba satellite any more, are you?
02:00:24 <elliott> olsner: Look, I had to fit the snowclone, shut up and let me quote /prog/ memes until the last river runs dry.
02:00:31 <olsner> elliott: that's funny, when I read it, it comes out in my voice
02:00:32 <oerjan> zzo38: ctrl-A is reserved for CTCP commands
02:00:38 <elliott> ais523: No, I left it behind two days ago.
02:00:42 <ais523> the fan runs continuously on Windows 7, but on Ubuntu it only seems to run when I'm watching a lot of video
02:00:46 <ais523> hmm, what are you on now?
02:00:50 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:00:57 <zzo38> oerjan: Use another control character then.
02:01:06 <elliott> ais523: Ensnared in the terrifying jaws of proprietary lockdown and loss of freedom ... but it's less than an inch thick!
02:01:11 <zzo38> Use ANSI escapes I don't know if any IRC client accepts it though
02:01:22 -!- Sgeo has joined.
02:01:25 <ais523> an inch isn't really a very good comparison
02:01:27 <elliott> "VROOM I AM A JET PLANE," says the little fan. "VROOOOOM!"
02:01:30 <Sgeo> Well, that was dumb
02:01:33 <ais523> I think even the Satellite is less than an inch thick
02:01:37 <elliott> ais523: it isn't
02:01:45 <ais523> inches are massive
02:01:47 <elliott> ais523: it also has ugly feet :)
02:02:00 <elliott> ais523: OK, reword: It literally couldn't fit a bigger port than USB.
02:02:05 <ais523> that's better
02:02:09 <elliott> ais523: The USB port only has the slightest border on the top and bottom.
02:02:10 <ais523> macbook air?
02:02:16 <elliott> ais523: MAYE
02:02:17 <elliott> *MAYBE
02:02:17 -!- fxkr has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
02:02:24 -!- fxkr has joined.
02:02:25 <ais523> I can't think of much else that fits both statements you've given
02:02:28 <elliott> In my defence, they updated it recently and the specs are now ... well, respectable.
02:02:42 <olsner> elliott: 13" or 11"?
02:02:43 <ais523> and I have no idea how good or otherwise it
02:02:45 <ais523> *is
02:02:49 <elliott> (Recent Core 2 Duo, 4 gigs of RAM, 1440x900 resolution, a whole *two* USB ports, and a 256 gig SSD.)
02:02:52 <elliott> olsner: 13".
02:03:05 <elliott> I wish the fan ran less, but otherwise it's really nice.
02:03:12 <zzo38> Does this work?
02:03:15 <ais523> *s/\*/s\/$\/$'\//
02:03:15 <elliott> It seems to like heating up whenever you actually /do/ anything.
02:03:24 <ais523> zzo38: I just see literal characters around the "this"
02:03:27 <Vorpal> zzo38, "<zzo38> Does [0010]this[0010] work?
02:03:29 <Vorpal> is what I see
02:03:30 <ais523> that look like solid triangles pointing left
02:03:45 <ais523> hmm, 0010 = 16 = control-P
02:03:50 <olsner> oh, 1440*900? that's an improvement
02:03:52 <zzo38> ais523: Not to the right?
02:03:56 <elliott> olsner: yes, it's really nice actually
02:03:57 <ais523> nope, to the left
02:04:01 <elliott> olsner: the Toshiba has 1366x768
02:04:11 <ais523> so it's not that much larger a res
02:04:13 <zzo38> Well, does this do anything?
02:04:13 <elliott> I thought the ppi might be a bit high on this considering the proliferation of bitmaps, but it's actually just fine.
02:04:21 <ais523> zzo38: that gives me triangles pointing right
02:04:22 <elliott> ais523: No, but it's definitely a marked improvement.
02:04:28 <ais523> that would make sense
02:04:41 <olsner> the macbook pros are only 1280x800 in 13"
02:04:41 <ais523> hmm, I grew up on 640x480
02:04:51 <elliott> olsner: heh
02:05:01 <elliott> olsner: well this thing could stand up to a 13" macbook pro
02:05:02 <Vorpal> <zzo38> Well, does this do anything? <-- same as before but 0011 now
02:05:07 <elliott> oh, I forgot to mention it has the same GPU
02:05:13 <elliott> which is /really/ nice, for integrated graphics
02:05:16 <elliott> ais523: I had an idea for an #esoteric collaborative language project, FWIW (there is, in fact, logic behind telling _you_ this in particular).
02:05:25 <Vorpal> elliott, so intel graphics?
02:05:28 <Vorpal> (if integrated)
02:05:28 <elliott> Vorpal: No. Nvidia.
02:05:36 <ais523> zzo38: can you embed a literal NUL in your messages? most clients can't, but I wouldn't be surprised if yours could
02:05:43 <Vorpal> elliott, oh. So integrated nvidia? how strange
02:05:49 <elliott> Vorpal: Um, that's incredibly common.
02:05:52 <elliott> On desktops especially.
02:06:02 <elliott> ais523: Our own Perl 6: basically, second system design taken to perfection. The biggest language we can think of focusing on ridiculous concision and no care at all for ease of implementation or bloat.
02:06:03 <ais523> Vorpal: it seems unlikely that a Mac would use Intel graphics to me, it doesn't really fit their image
02:06:09 <elliott> ais523: The idea is to beat them at their own silly game :-)
02:06:21 <elliott> ais523: Actually they used to.
02:06:25 <elliott> (use Intel graphics)
02:06:26 <ais523> I actually rather like Perl 6
02:06:37 <elliott> ais523: Oh, I do too.
02:06:43 <zzo38> aos523: Let me see if I can embed a null
02:06:44 <elliott> ais523: I just think _we_ could do a much better job of it.
02:06:55 <elliott> compiler/stage2/build/LibFFI_hsc_make.c:1: error: CPU you selected does not support x86-64 instruction set
02:06:56 <elliott> ugh
02:06:58 <ais523> but perl 6 almost isn't vaporware
02:06:59 <zzo38> ais523: What did it display?
02:07:03 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:07:13 <ais523> zzo38: <zzo38> aos523: Let me see if I can embed a null
02:07:19 <ais523> is the previous comment by you
02:07:25 <ais523> is that the comment you embedded a nul in?
02:07:35 <zzo38> ais523: I think the server cuts it off.
02:07:40 <ais523> or did you embed it in a different comment, in such a way that it didn't come up at all?
02:07:45 <ais523> server cutting it off wouldn't surprise me
02:07:45 <zzo38> After the null I wrote "there it is"
02:07:52 <ais523> yep, that makes sense
02:08:11 <elliott> ais523: hmm, it occurs to me that it might turn out quite similar to J
02:08:18 <elliott> e.g., Perl 6 has Zop for zip-with-op
02:08:22 <elliott> foo Zop bar
02:08:29 <elliott> so obviously you can have /op for fold-with-op, like J has
02:08:41 <elliott> /op foo;
02:08:42 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:08:42 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
02:08:44 <elliott> which generalises to
02:08:47 <elliott> zero /op foo;
02:08:50 <elliott> e.g.
02:08:56 <elliott> 1/+foo;
02:08:57 <elliott> is
02:09:02 <elliott> foo[0] + foo[1] + foo[2] + 1
02:09:06 <elliott> (for 3-length foo)
02:09:27 -!- sebbu has joined.
02:12:45 <cheater99> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ety7i/the_one_day_challenge_one_php_file_24_hours_what/
02:13:45 <elliott> see first comment.
02:15:40 <elliott> ais523: unfortunately, it looks like your cross-compilation help won't work
02:15:47 <elliott> ais523: I don't think GHC /can/ cross-compile like that
02:16:20 -!- j-invariant has joined.
02:17:53 <olsner> oh, this is interesting: apparently cretin originally meant "christian" and was used to point out that mentally retarded people were still christian and deserving of dignity
02:18:24 <olsner> (and atheist retards are apparently worthless...)
02:19:18 <elliott> olsner: :D
02:19:19 <oerjan> minuit chrétiens
02:19:36 <ais523> elliott: it takes a huge amount of hackery to get autoconf to do build/host/target correctly
02:19:57 <elliott> ais523: more like, when you have a compiler that depends on itself, all this stuff is complicated to do!
02:20:00 <ais523> C-INTERCAL does it by running autoconf twice recursively
02:20:09 <ais523> and even then, that only does build/host, not build/host/target
02:20:11 <elliott> I /hope/ that it'll manage to do a proper bootstrap here, but I fear that it's going to just do an unregistered build
02:20:21 <olsner> that's a shame, I somehow though half the point of autoconf was to make stuff like that work correctly
02:20:29 <ais523> why are you trying to build for 64-bit using a 32-bit compiler anyway?
02:20:38 <ais523> olsner: you should see gcc's autoconf script
02:20:44 <ais523> it's mostly written by hand, in shellscript rather than m4
02:20:46 <ais523> it's hideous
02:20:52 <elliott> ais523: because the only GHC binaries for 64-bit are two 7.0.1 ones that depend on MacPorts libgmp
02:21:02 <elliott> ais523: and I don't use MacPorts
02:21:05 <zzo38> When I write a program with works without autoconf.
02:21:12 <elliott> ais523: (the support is rather new)
02:21:22 <elliott> ais523: so I'm using the regular 32-bit GHC binary to try and build a 64-bit one
02:21:26 <ais523> ah
02:21:41 <olsner> ais523: I always thought autoconf was what did that :(
02:21:46 <ais523> nope
02:21:54 <ais523> autoconf does many things, but not that
02:22:07 <elliott> ais523: I also like how gcc uses _hand-written Makefiles_.
02:22:19 <ais523> it mostly compensates for nonportabilities with other systems
02:22:20 <elliott> ais523: I don't know if you've ever looked at them, but ... those don't look like the product of hands to me.
02:22:33 <elliott> ais523: have you seen GHC's Evil Mangler?
02:22:33 <ais523> elliott: more fun, gcc has various flags describing the machine
02:22:47 <ais523> some combinations aren't supported by the gcc core, and the fact isn't documented except in comments inside the code
02:23:01 <ais523> these combinations are actually used, and the arches that use them have their own code just override the core for that bit
02:23:04 <elliott> ais523: it's a literate perl script that runs regular expressions over C compiler output to remove the C function prologues and epilogues from the assembly ... for _multiple assemblers_
02:23:04 <ais523> code duplication ftw
02:23:13 <ais523> elliott: haha
02:23:15 <elliott> ais523: yes, literate perl: they wrote their own literate perl processor
02:23:21 <elliott> ais523: it is, quite possibly, the most evil thing ever written
02:23:23 <ais523> and literate perl already exists
02:23:30 <elliott> ais523: you mean POD?
02:23:32 <ais523> yep
02:23:33 <elliott> POD has nothing to do with literate programming.
02:23:36 <elliott> you are very mistaken
02:23:41 <ais523> elliott: it can be abused for that purpose
02:23:45 <elliott> sort of.
02:23:48 <elliott> ais523: in this case they used latex: http://darcs.haskell.org/ghc/driver/mangler/ghc-asm.lprl
02:23:48 <ais523> =begin html
02:23:50 <ais523> =end html
02:23:51 <ais523> =cut
02:23:55 <elliott> ais523: no, that's not what literate programming is at all
02:24:00 <ais523> or whatever other markup system you like
02:24:05 <ais523> elliott: I've seen literate programming
02:24:14 <ais523> to me, it's nothing to do with the syntax, you could just use regular comments
02:24:17 <elliott> ais523: that's just inline documentation
02:24:26 <ais523> it's to do with how you intersperse the comments and code, and what the comments say
02:24:32 <elliott> ais523: no, it's about reordering the program
02:24:37 <ais523> indeed
02:24:42 <elliott> (but more expressive languages alleviate this need by having more expressive procedural abstractions)
02:24:49 <elliott> (still, if you can't name a procedure a sentence, it isn't really the same)
02:24:59 <ais523> you can do that in algol 68!
02:25:06 <ais523> hello world is an entirely legal variable name
02:26:30 <olsner> the evil mangler is quite impressive in a way
02:26:46 <elliott> ugh, i wish people woul stop talking about pair programming
02:27:15 <j-invariant> pair programming LOL
02:27:44 <j-invariant> you couldn't make this stuff up
02:28:53 <olsner> someone should rewrite it in haskell and call it the Holy Mangler
02:29:43 <Vorpal> elliott, how did they port ghc to a new platform in the first place if it can't easily cross compile?
02:29:54 <elliott> Vorpal: unregistered builds
02:29:59 <Vorpal> elliott, meaning?
02:30:27 <elliott> Vorpal: complicated things
02:30:34 <Vorpal> elliott, okay
02:30:37 <Vorpal> elliott, can't you do that then
02:30:41 <zzo38> Literate programming is about making a book!
02:30:41 <elliott> Vorpal: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building/Porting
02:30:43 <Vorpal> elliott, or temporarily use macports
02:30:48 <elliott> no, and no.
02:30:56 <elliott> ais523: now you get the zzo38 book-is-program speech
02:32:06 <olsner> Life is about making a book!
02:32:24 <elliott> Book is about making a book!
02:32:41 <olsner> Book [...] a book!
02:33:03 <Vorpal> elliott, what about starting from a 64-bit ghc 6.x?
02:33:07 <Vorpal> elliott, does that work?
02:33:19 <elliott> "I had my own Wikipedia page for over 18 months. I made myself an apple orchard tycoon from the Midwest. Worst that happened was it being tagged for not including enough citations. When I started seeking "real" jobs I got paranoid that employers would see it and know it was me goofing off so I flagged it as a vanity page and got it taken down. I tried deleting it but the WikiBots auto-reverted it. I was very proud of that page. In fac
02:33:19 <elliott> t, I later found a student at a Wisconsin university had used made up information from that article for his Senior Project (a planned bike route through apple country)."
02:33:22 <elliott> Vorpal: there are no such builds
02:33:26 <elliott> OS X 64-bit support is new
02:33:27 <Vorpal> elliott, ah
02:34:02 <elliott> I think I'll just make a 32-bit build and save my sanity.
02:34:14 <olsner> it might be nice if ghc porting wasn't so darned difficult
02:34:36 <elliott> olsner: X depending on X is just a general headache :)
02:34:46 <Vorpal> actually that depends
02:34:47 <elliott> olsner: but it's shiny so we keep doing it regardless of the engineering problems
02:34:49 <olsner> it'd probably help if it could do cross-compiling (of itself) too
02:35:03 <elliott> olsner: yeah #ghc says this build can't possibly work
02:35:06 <elliott> but i'm leaving it going
02:35:07 <elliott> just in case
02:35:14 <Vorpal> elliott, erlang depends on erlang. But since it uses bytecode this is less of an issue
02:35:21 -!- Wamanuz5 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
02:35:25 <Vorpal> (still the erlang compiler is written in erlang)
02:35:42 <elliott> I'm surprised how sturdy this laptop is... it feels as solid as a MacBook Pro
02:35:43 <olsner> obviously, elliott knows better than #ghc about building ghc
02:36:02 <Ilari> Vorpal: You know what "lipid hypothesis" is?
02:36:09 <Vorpal> Ilari, never heard of it
02:36:12 <elliott> olsner: no, but I've got FAIIITH OF THE HEAART -- and if the Enterprise theme just started playing in your head, enjoy the pain.
02:36:32 <olsner> fortunately, I don't remember it :D
02:36:32 <j-invariant> oh UGH
02:36:38 <j-invariant> worst theme ever
02:36:38 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:36:44 <elliott> j-invariant: absolutely
02:36:51 <olsner> I don't recall the theme as being that bad though
02:36:57 <Vorpal> j-invariant, I love the mirror universe theme from that series thoug
02:37:00 <Vorpal> though*
02:37:02 <elliott> indeed
02:37:05 <elliott> j-invariant: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl5zw6fGjdA if you haven't seen it)
02:37:09 <elliott> also with totally different graphics
02:37:10 <Ilari> Vorpal: The (crock) idea that cholesterol causes heart disease.
02:37:15 <olsner> of course, lyrics makes it instantly worse than all other star trek themes
02:37:22 <Vorpal> elliott, same graphics in part near the beginning
02:37:29 <elliott> Vorpal: well. all 3 seconds of it
02:37:33 <Vorpal> elliott, and that is used to rather good effect
02:37:47 <elliott> technically the title goes black even before the ship
02:37:49 <elliott> so it's more like .5s :P
02:37:54 <Vorpal> Ilari, I have no opinion on that.
02:37:56 <elliott> </pedant> ... come to think of it, <pedant>
02:38:09 <Vorpal> Ilari, too much of anything is probably bad anyway so *shurg*
02:38:36 <Vorpal> `addquote <elliott> </pedant> ... come to think of it, <pedant>
02:38:53 <HackEgo> 259) <elliott> </pedant> ... come to think of it, <pedant>
02:39:12 * oerjan notes how that "... come to think of it," is clearly the only thing which _isn't_ pedantic
02:39:25 <Ilari> Glucose and insulin in blood are necressary. But both become substances from hell when in excessive amounts... And those amounts aren't really that high.
02:39:33 <Vorpal> elliott, this is very very strange (from unregistered build instructions): <T>$ cp /bin/pwd utils/ghc-pwd/ghc-pwd
02:39:38 <Vorpal> that MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL
02:39:44 <olsner> pedants don't just "come to think of" things!
02:40:52 <oerjan> THE SENSE NO MAKE ALL THAT
02:41:14 <Vorpal> oerjan, THE PUN MAKE INSTALL
02:41:16 <elliott> i think the little gnome inside my laptop is burning
02:41:24 <olsner> elliott: relistened to the enterprise theme now - it doesn't annoy me
02:41:26 <Vorpal> elliott, check sensors?
02:41:33 <Vorpal> elliott, I remember there being an OS X app for it
02:41:36 <elliott> olsner: I GOT FAIIIIITH!
02:41:43 <elliott> Vorpal: It's fine, it's just warm :P
02:41:48 <elliott> Vorpal: Not quite at birth control level yet.
02:41:58 <Vorpal> elliott, hah
02:43:02 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:43:52 <olsner> elliott: they sing that? I don't hear it when I listen to the song, so bladder all you want about FAIIIIIITH :P
02:44:05 <elliott> olsner: that's the alternate universe one
02:44:06 <elliott> which is not annoying
02:44:08 <elliott> that you presumably clicked
02:44:18 <elliott> olsner: that's the AWESOME one
02:44:20 <olsner> no, I clicked onwards to the original theme
02:44:33 <elliott> olsner: "I GOT FAIIIITH OF THE HEART"
02:44:58 <elliott> olsner: this one yes? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPn-lTytfGo
02:45:36 <olsner> that one yes
02:45:52 <elliott> olsner: maybe you are deaf :)
02:46:08 <elliott> olsner: to be fair, it may be hatred for EVERY OTHER THING about Enterprise spilling over.
02:46:58 <elliott> Vorpal: ok it's killing my future children now
02:47:04 <elliott> this laptop's silence and coolness does not scale
02:47:26 <Vorpal> elliott, move it to a table...
02:47:30 <Vorpal> elliott, it will cool better then too
02:47:32 <elliott> none nearby
02:47:35 <elliott> also it's actually just cooling my legs
02:47:39 <elliott> erm
02:47:39 <elliott> warming
02:47:43 <elliott> melting more like
02:47:50 <Vorpal> elliott, move to a stable then
02:47:58 <Vorpal> then move notebook on it
02:48:00 <olsner> elliott: well, I generally don't listen to lyrics, so "faith of the heart" would've registered as "faaaay blada baaa" or something like that
02:48:23 <Vorpal> olsner, hm. same for me actually.
02:48:28 <elliott> that's just cuz youre swedenish
02:48:33 <elliott> *your
02:48:41 <olsner> *you're
02:49:33 <elliott> *your
02:50:11 <olsner> well, it's the same for swedish songs :)
02:50:20 <elliott> *its
02:50:25 <oerjan> tro i ditt hjärta
02:50:27 <olsner> german and japanese lyrics work better though
02:50:33 <elliott> make[1]: *** [utils/haddock/dist/build/Paths_haddock.o] Bus error
02:50:36 <elliott> disregard that i suck cocks
02:50:49 <Vorpal> elliott, "buss error" eh. That is quite rare
02:50:55 <elliott> Vorpal: Not on OS X.
02:50:57 <Vorpal> I got it from mcmap the other day
02:50:58 <elliott> It's a segfault.
02:51:06 <Vorpal> elliott, so you never get a segfault on there?
02:51:08 <elliott> They say bus error for whatever reason, perhaps Mach.
02:51:10 <Vorpal> or do you get that too?
02:51:19 <elliott> Vorpal: I think it's mostly bus errors. I think I may have seen a segfault once or twice.
02:51:24 <Vorpal> hm
02:51:32 * elliott builds a 32-bit GHC instead
02:51:36 <Vorpal> elliott, on linux you see bus error once or twice instead
02:51:43 <elliott> stow is actually quite nice i wonder what pikhq dislikes about it
02:51:48 <Vorpal> elliott, why do you hate macports?
02:52:00 <olsner> I've never seen a bus error on linux, only on solaris and mac
02:52:17 <elliott> Vorpal: (1) they like to duplicate a lot of software Apple includes, which tends to be irritating ... except that they don't duplicate all of it, e.g. gcc (even though they have a gcc package), so managing everything can be a real pain
02:52:21 <elliott> Vorpal: it's pretty darn slow
02:52:22 <Vorpal> olsner, happens like... 2-3 times / year on linux for me
02:52:25 <elliott> Vorpal: it's really complex
02:52:33 <elliott> Vorpal: it's often out of date, sometimes significantly
02:52:38 <Vorpal> segfault : 5 / week ?
02:52:39 <elliott> Vorpal: and it just generally isn't pleasant to use.
02:52:49 <Vorpal> elliott, hm
02:52:53 <elliott> Vorpal: it's very easy to screw things up when using macports.
02:53:00 <elliott> because you have to keep track of what youre using the apple version of vs macports
02:53:02 <elliott> *you're
02:53:03 <Vorpal> elliott, but would using it for bootstrapping ghc hurt?
02:53:11 <elliott> Vorpal: I just downloaded the GHC installer for that.
02:53:16 <elliott> MacPorts wouldn't make that any simpler.
02:53:22 <Vorpal> elliott, oh but for 64-bit I meant
02:53:25 <elliott> I think MacPorts has a 64-bit GHC, but really, 32-bit works better for now.
02:53:31 <elliott> Vorpal: well that'd be silly
02:53:35 <Vorpal> elliott, oh?
02:53:37 <elliott> Vorpal: because macports already does download binary -> build from source
02:53:44 <elliott> so i'd have to build ghc from source TWCIE
02:53:45 <elliott> *TWICE
02:53:51 <elliott> and that is the point where i commit suicide
02:53:59 <Vorpal> elliott, well but why not download the binary only
02:54:03 <Vorpal> elliott, and use that bit
02:54:28 <elliott> Vorpal: Because binaries suxxx0r0r0r. :p (Because I want it in my /opt stow-based system, and GHC isn't relocatable.)
02:54:57 <Vorpal> elliott, so get 64-bit binary version. Use that to build your own 64-bit one from source
02:55:11 <elliott> Vorpal: 64-bit binary requires macports libs.
02:55:12 <Vorpal> elliott, you can remove the non-/opt one once you built your new one
02:55:20 <elliott> Vorpal: OR HOW ABOUT THIS JUST USE THE 32-BIT ONE
02:55:22 <Vorpal> elliott, so get that single macports lib
02:55:27 <Vorpal> elliott, THAT IS GIVING IN!
02:55:28 <elliott> more than single. much more
02:55:30 <elliott> would also involve macports perl
02:55:39 <Vorpal> elliott, chroot for it?
02:55:43 <elliott> if I wanted to do it 64-bit, I'd LOOK AT THE MACPORTS BUILD SCRIPT to figure out how it does it
02:55:54 <elliott> Vorpal: macports already does everything in /opt/local so that would be pointless.
02:55:54 <Vorpal> elliott, ah
02:55:57 -!- cheater99 has joined.
02:55:59 <elliott> also making an OS X chroot sounds "fun"
02:56:07 <Vorpal> elliott, well then easy to clean up after!
02:56:21 <elliott> rm -rf /opt/local
02:56:40 <Vorpal> elliott, quite
02:56:43 <elliott> haha, there is Gentoo/Interix
02:56:49 <Vorpal> elliott, what...
02:56:50 <Vorpal> wow
02:56:54 <elliott> based on gentoo prefix
02:57:02 <elliott> Interix
02:57:02 <elliott> Gentoo/Interix (eprefix) is a port of Gentoo that runs atop the Interix Subsystem for Windows which is also known as Microsoft Windows Services for UNIX (SFU) or Subsystem for Unix-based Applications (SUA).
02:57:02 <elliott> A result of the Gentoo/Interix project is the ability to install and use the Portage system to emerge native Windows applications (requires Visual Studio, 2008 Express Edition will do too). However, this feature does not support the wide variety of packages supported by other platforms (including Interix).
02:57:11 <Vorpal> elliott, I bet there is like one guy using it. The maintainer
02:57:22 <elliott> Vorpal: I'd write something like that without any intention of using it just for the lulz :)
02:57:33 <Vorpal> elliott, maybe
02:57:46 <Vorpal> elliott, I'd doubt you would touch gentoo though
02:57:58 <elliott> well, no.
02:58:04 <Vorpal> elliott, otherwise I charge you to do Gentoo/Hurd (unless this is done?)
02:58:15 <elliott> Vorpal: apparently the port to gnu hurd was abandoned (for gentoo/alt)
02:58:20 <Vorpal> elliott, XD
02:58:27 <elliott> interix support but no HURD
02:58:34 <elliott> then again hurd guys are basically in bed with debian so i'm not surprised
02:58:44 <elliott> although arch/hurd exists now, thanks to arch people being idiots with nothing better to do
02:59:04 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:59:13 <elliott> Vorpal: re - segfaults
02:59:17 <Vorpal> elliott, yes?
03:00:00 <Vorpal> elliott, yes?
03:00:02 <elliott> Vorpal: here in OS X land we live in a land of perfect solutions. that is why we use a modified 4.3BSD kernel running on top of Mach, with a FreeBSD userland, running a windowing system which renders using PDFs.
03:00:09 <elliott> it Just Makes Sense!
03:00:23 <Vorpal> elliott, wait, doesn't quartz use opengl?
03:00:24 <elliott> (yes, Quartz is Display PostScript: The PDF Version)
03:00:31 <Vorpal> err
03:00:34 <elliott> Vorpal: yes
03:00:36 <Vorpal> elliott, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
03:00:38 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
03:00:43 <olsner> Vorpal: ... to render the PDF:s :P
03:00:49 <elliott> well
03:00:50 <elliott> [[It is widely stated that Quartz "uses PDF" internally, often by people making comparisons with the Display PostScript technology used in NeXTSTEP (of which Mac OS X is a descendant) and OPENSTEP. Quartz's internal imaging model correlates well with the PDF object graph, making it easy to output PDF to multiple devices.[6]]]
03:00:54 <Vorpal> elliott, doesn't the pdf stuff slow down a LOT
03:00:58 <elliott> Vorpal: see above
03:01:01 <elliott> it's not _actually_ PDFs
03:01:08 <Vorpal> phew
03:01:11 <elliott> Vorpal: fun fact, before OS X 10.4 or so, the default OS X screenshot format was .pdf
03:01:23 <elliott> actual, scalable PDF ... apart from all the bitmaps used in the UI that made it utterly pointless
03:01:30 <elliott> but yes, you actually got screenshots ending in .pdf.
03:01:48 <Vorpal> elliott, :D
03:02:01 <elliott> Vorpal: despite all of this insanity, it's better than X11 :)
03:02:02 <olsner> if it was used to make actually scalable UI:s, it'd be pretty awesome
03:02:08 <Vorpal> elliott, doesn't OS X use scalable icons and so on?
03:02:11 <elliott> Vorpal: no
03:02:12 <Vorpal> so where are the bitmaps?
03:02:26 <Vorpal> elliott, but look in finder on program icons. They are scalable
03:02:27 <elliott> Vorpal: UI elements are bitmaps, icons are (512px or something) bitmaps
03:02:30 <Vorpal> ah
03:02:32 <elliott> Vorpal: no, they're just really huge bitmaps
03:02:36 <Vorpal> elliott, I see
03:02:36 <elliott> rendered in multiple sizes
03:02:40 <elliott> erm
03:02:40 <elliott> no
03:02:43 <elliott> not rendered in multiple sizes
03:02:44 <Vorpal> elliott, even linux uses svg nowdays
03:02:46 <elliott> dunno why i said that
03:02:48 <elliott> Vorpal: not really
03:02:53 <Vorpal> elliott, it can
03:02:55 <elliott> Vorpal: yes, but it doesn't
03:03:02 <elliott> a regular default-gnome or tango setup won't use svg
03:03:07 <elliott> even though the option is available
03:03:10 <elliott> since there's faster rendered bitmaps
03:03:38 <Vorpal> elliott, actually, I looked at readahead files from ubuntu. It does load a handful of *.svg
03:03:44 <Vorpal> elliott, more *.png though
03:03:59 <Vorpal> elliott, I think computer.svg got loaded by gdm for example
03:04:49 <Vorpal> elliott, TABLE!
03:04:55 <elliott> VROOOOOOOOOOM
03:05:02 <elliott> Vorpal: it makes a noise even when i hold it up :P
03:05:16 <Vorpal> elliott, well duh. But future kids
03:05:20 <Vorpal> wait
03:05:22 <elliott> also little molecules of dirt are sweating off my palms onto the aluminium ... lovely. guess that's why they use plastic
03:05:26 <Vorpal> KEEP IT IN YOUR LAP!
03:05:39 <elliott> Vorpal: I don't think me reproducing would give very good prospects as to the estimated further lifespan of the universe
03:05:47 <elliott> I got lucky, I'm not *100%* evil.
03:05:56 <Vorpal> elliott, only 95% yes
03:06:14 <elliott> Also they'd be little versions of me, and god knows I irritate myself enough already.
03:06:22 <quintopia> pfft. he's a comparative teddy bear to 100% evil
03:06:39 <elliott> quintopia: you don't understand how *nice* 100% evil can be
03:07:26 <Vorpal> elliott, why is the ghc evil mangler written in perl
03:07:36 <quintopia> elliott: oh maybe i do and realize that your occasional dickwaddery moves you closer to averagely evil
03:07:51 <elliott> quintopia: hmm darn
03:07:52 <Vorpal> elliott, why not write it in haskell
03:08:00 <elliott> i'm going to be really nice from now on and then slit everyone's throat
03:08:08 <Vorpal> elliott, also, literate perl!? that's even more wtf
03:08:12 <quintopia> good new year's resolution
03:08:20 <elliott> Vorpal: because that'd make porting even more of a pain. also, because haskell probably didn't have too good regexp support at the time :P
03:08:25 <elliott> Vorpal: yeah, they wrote their own literate perl processor
03:08:31 <elliott> Vorpal: note: it is only used when compiling via C.
03:08:36 <elliott> which is not the recommended way to do things usually
03:08:51 <Vorpal> elliott, well once it was the only way?
03:08:55 <elliott> -fvia-C really means "use the C compiler as a code generator, and then strip out all the C function bits from it"
03:08:57 <Sgeo> If we're on the subject of painful theme songs..
03:09:01 <elliott> Sgeo: no.
03:09:09 <Sgeo> >:D
03:09:20 <Vorpal> Sgeo, that was ages ago. topic closed.
03:09:37 <olsner> the evil mangler was also ages ago
03:09:45 <elliott> olsner: but that doesn't involve Sgeo singing
03:09:46 <olsner> more ages than bad themes
03:09:47 <elliott> "singing"
03:09:51 <elliott> olsner: so SHUT UP
03:09:56 <elliott> stop being That Guy!
03:10:05 <Sgeo> Which is worse, the SGI theme or my singing?
03:10:10 <elliott> Sgeo: YOU
03:10:24 <olsner> what's SGI?
03:10:43 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67E-_SQLVRo
03:10:53 <elliott> olsner: DO NOT CLICK
03:10:59 <elliott> worst music ever
03:11:01 <elliott> to worst series ever
03:11:27 <olsner> haha
03:11:29 <Vorpal> <elliott> stop being That Guy! <-- ??
03:11:48 <elliott> Vorpal: That Guy.
03:12:01 <Vorpal> elliott, a reference I do not get.
03:12:10 <Vorpal> elliott, though it does sound familiar
03:12:10 <elliott> Not even really a reference :P
03:12:11 <olsner> stargate infiiiinity-ity-ity-ity-ity
03:12:20 <elliott> stargate infinititty lol
03:12:22 <elliott> ^ humor
03:12:32 <quintopia> oh thanks for labelling it
03:12:42 <Vorpal> elliott, speaking of music that is actually good though it really feels like it shouldn't be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc
03:12:49 <olsner> infinititty? that sounds like something worth watching
03:12:51 <elliott> quintopia: its so u recognise
03:12:51 <quintopia> it made it funny hahaha yes it did
03:12:51 <Vorpal> (note: that was the first line speaking of it)
03:12:58 <elliott> Vorpal: dude /I/ linked you to that
03:13:04 <Vorpal> elliott, yes, but not recently
03:13:11 <Vorpal> elliott, and it is widely spread really
03:13:12 <elliott> quintopia: yes it was a funny humorus
03:13:43 <quintopia> breaking humeri is funny too
03:13:57 <olsner> Vorpal: yuck, there's autotune in it
03:14:11 <Vorpal> olsner, true. He /spoke/ that.
03:14:16 <elliott> olsner: you expect Carl Sagan to sing properly in a TV series? :D
03:14:17 <elliott> omg
03:14:20 <elliott> that would have been so much better
03:14:23 <elliott> if he just sang all the time for no reason
03:14:36 <olsner> The Universe: The Musical
03:14:42 <Vorpal> elliott, what is the first bit from "I'm not great good at singing but here is a try"
03:14:49 <Vorpal> elliott, is it from that series or?
03:14:51 <elliott> "RIP Carl. Fuck off to all those low-life career theoretical physicists."
03:14:53 <quintopia> a glorious dawn is actually still my favorite melodysheep track
03:14:54 <elliott> Vorpal: All of it is :P
03:14:55 <elliott> --YouTube
03:14:56 <elliott> i
03:15:01 <elliott> low-life career theoretical physicists
03:15:03 <quintopia> even despite the hundreds of others now
03:15:05 <elliott> a phrase i never ever expected to read
03:15:05 <Vorpal> elliott, so he /did/ sing in it?
03:15:09 <elliott> Vorpal: no.
03:15:11 <elliott> its the whalesong
03:15:12 <elliott> *it's
03:15:20 <elliott> or whatever it is
03:15:28 <Vorpal> elliott, err, I haven't watched the series (it is on my todo list)
03:15:31 <Vorpal> elliott, so what whalesong?
03:15:35 <elliott> Vorpal: the Whoop-booo he does at the start
03:15:41 <quintopia> Vorpal: "I'm not very good at singing whale songs, but I'll give it a dtry."
03:15:44 <elliott> right.
03:15:51 <Vorpal> ah
03:15:51 <elliott> Stephen Hawking should do a rap album after that bridge in A Glorious Dawn
03:15:55 <elliott> I would buy it
03:16:05 <elliott> Might have to hack up his software a bit though :-P
03:16:06 <quintopia> elliott: MC Hawking. it's hilarious.
03:16:10 <elliott> quintopia: I know
03:16:15 <elliott> but it'd be better if he actually did it
03:16:23 <quintopia> yes but he wouldn't
03:16:27 <quintopia> :(
03:16:40 <elliott> quintopia: how do you know
03:16:43 <elliott> stephen hawking is BADASS
03:16:52 <olsner> yeah, why not? seems like a fun thing to do
03:17:00 <elliott> dammit GHC compile faster, I need to go to the toilet
03:17:14 <Sgeo> elliott, you can't leave it unattended?
03:17:15 <quintopia> because he's not studying it? he's thinking about math n shit?
03:17:17 <Vorpal> elliott, PUT IT ON THE FLOOR?
03:17:25 <Vorpal> oops, shift stuck
03:17:29 <olsner> especially for someone who can't really talk, and can barely do it through text-to-speech, rapping would be pretty awesome
03:17:35 <elliott> Vorpal: no i'm just scared to leave it alone in case it becomes sentient
03:17:35 <Vorpal> I think I need to clean keyboard
03:17:38 <quintopia> get off your ath and do some math. math, math, math, math, math
03:17:46 <Vorpal> elliott, hit ctrl-z to pause it?
03:17:46 <elliott> olsner: only valid if he does it in real time though
03:17:49 <elliott> work that throat yo
03:17:52 <Vorpal> elliott, will ALSO cool down the thing
03:17:54 <elliott> Vorpal: i don't trust that to work reliably :)
03:17:58 <Vorpal> elliott, ... what?
03:18:03 <Vorpal> elliott, when has that ever broken?
03:18:03 <elliott> Vorpal: I'M SCARED OF GHC
03:18:25 <Vorpal> elliott, dude, a program can't trap the relevant signal, unless it is pid 1
03:18:29 <elliott> SCARED
03:18:46 <olsner> you need to spend time with your new build so it doesn't end up a misanthropist
03:18:53 <elliott> olsner: he wouldn't have any trouble actually rapping though
03:18:58 <elliott> just add some sleep()s into his software to wait for a beat
03:19:05 <elliott> in fact
03:19:08 <elliott> he should just never turn it off
03:19:10 <elliott> and rap all of his interviews
03:19:41 <quintopia> including end rhyme, mid rhyme, and ghetto slang
03:23:39 <Vorpal> quintopia, no need for the latter. Just do it as nerdcore
03:24:14 <quintopia> nerdcore can still get crunk up in the hizzouse
03:24:27 <Vorpal> quintopia, if you haven't seen it already: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nigRT2KmCE (I don't like rap in general, but this is an exception)
03:24:39 <elliott> I'm pretty sure *everyone* knows who MC Frontalot is :P
03:24:46 <Vorpal> elliott, sure, but that song?
03:24:52 <elliott> Gangster christian nerdcore I would go for
03:24:57 <j-invariant> I like LOL money
03:24:58 <Vorpal> elliott, hah
03:25:06 <elliott> (christian gangster rap was one of the nullsoft genres)
03:25:27 <j-invariant> never heard of frontalot before
03:26:01 * oerjan is with j-invariant
03:26:35 <elliott> oerjan: comfortable rock is it?
03:26:37 <elliott> the one you live under
03:26:43 <oerjan> not really.
03:27:14 <elliott> oerjan: want a cushion?
03:28:39 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Already got one).
03:29:38 <Vorpal> elliott, oh no. You made him go to sleep. Now I have to provide the puns.
03:29:44 <elliott> oh god
03:29:53 <j-invariant> nice track
03:30:04 <j-invariant> Vorpal:
03:30:13 <Vorpal> j-invariant, mmm
03:31:48 <elliott> latest xkcd 's title text is FRCTACUTALLY INATTCCURATE!!!!!1
03:31:54 <elliott> putty is not just for windows
03:32:19 <j-invariant> the best kind of inaccurate?
03:32:52 <elliott> yes
03:33:01 <elliott> "/Users/ehird/Downloads/ghc-7.0.1/inplace/bin/haddock" --odir="compiler/stage2/doc/html/ghc" --no-tmp-comp-dir --dump-interface=compiler/stage2/doc/html/ghc/ghc.haddock --html --title="ghc-7.0.1: The GHC API" --prologue="compiler/stage2/haddock-prologue.txt" --read-interface=../Cabal-,../Cabal-{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/Cabal/dist-install/doc/html/Cabal/Cabal.haddock --read-interface=../array-,.
03:33:01 <elliott> ./array-{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/array/dist-install/doc/html/array/array.haddock --read-interface=../base-,../base-{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/base/dist-install/doc/html/base/base.haddock --read-interface=../bin-package-db-,../bin-package-db-{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/bin-package-db/dist-install/doc/html/bin-package-db/bin-package-db.haddock --read-int
03:33:01 <elliott> erface=../bytestring-,../bytestring-{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/bytestring/dist-install/doc/html/bytestring/bytestring.haddock --read-interface=../containers-,../containers-{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/containers/dist-install/doc/html/containers/containers.haddock --read-interface=../directory-,../directory-{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/directory/dist-
03:33:03 <elliott> install/doc/html/directory/directory.haddock --read-interface=../filepath-,../filepath-{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/filepath/dist-install/doc/html/filepath/filepath.haddock --read-interface=../hpc-,../hpc-{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/hpc/dist-install/doc/html/hpc/hpc.haddock --read-interface=../old-time-,../old-time-{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/old-tim
03:33:05 <elliott> e/dist-install/doc/html/old-time/old-time.haddock --read-interface=../process-,../process-{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/process/dist-install/doc/html/process/process.haddock --read-interface=../template-haskell-,../template-haskell-{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/template-haskell/dist-install/doc/html/template-haskell/template-haskell.haddock --read-interface=../unix-,../unix-
03:33:07 <elliott>{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/unix/dist-install/doc/html/unix/unix.haddock --optghc=-H32m --optghc=-O --optghc=-package-name --optghc=ghc-7.0.1 --optghc=-hide-all-packages --optghc=-i --optghc=-icompiler/basicTypes --optghc=-icompiler/cmm --optghc=-icompiler/codeGen --optghc=-icompiler/coreSyn --optghc=-icompiler/deSugar --optghc=-icompiler/ghci --optghc=-icompiler/hsSyn --optghc=-icompiler/iface --optghc=-icompile
03:33:09 <quintopia> i can't decide if the title text or the comic itself is stupider. but i know i don't care to look at again to try to decide
03:33:09 <elliott> r/llvmGen --optghc=-icompiler/main --optghc=-icompiler/nativeGen --optghc=-icompiler/parser --optghc=-icompiler/prelude --optghc=-icompiler/profiling --optghc=-icompiler/rename --optghc=-icompiler/simplCore --optghc=-icompiler/simplStg --optghc=-icompiler/specialise --optghc=-icompiler/stgSyn --optghc=-icompiler/stranal --optghc=-icompiler/typecheck --optghc=-icompiler/types --optghc=-icompiler/utils --optghc=-icompiler/vectorise --op
03:33:11 <elliott> tghc=-icompiler/stage2/build --optghc=-icompiler/stage2/build/autogen --optghc=-Icompiler/stage2/build --optghc=-Icompiler/stage2/build/autogen --optghc=-Icompiler/../libffi/build/include --optghc=-Icompiler/stage2 --optghc=-Icompiler/../libraries/base/cbits --optghc=-Icompiler/../libraries/base/include --optghc=-Icompiler/. --optghc=-Icompiler/parser --optghc=-Icompiler/utils --optghc=-optP-DGHCI --optghc=-optP-include --optghc=-optP
03:33:13 <elliott> compiler/stage2/build/autogen/cabal_macros.h --optghc=-package --optghc=Cabal- --optghc=-package --optghc=array- --optghc=-package --optghc=base- --optghc=-package --optghc=bin-package-db- --optghc=-package --optghc=bytestring- --optghc=-package --optghc=containers- --optghc=-package --optghc=directory- --optghc=-package --optghc=filepath- --optghc=-package --optghc=hpc-
03:33:15 <elliott> --optghc=-package --optghc=old-time- --optghc=-package --optghc=process- --optghc=-package --optghc=template-haskell- --optghc=-package --optghc=unix- --optghc=-Wall --optghc=-fno-warn-name-shadowing --optghc=-fno-warn-orphans --optghc=-XCPP --optghc=-XMagicHash --optghc=-XUnboxedTuples --optghc=-XPatternGuards --optghc=-XForeignFunctionInterface --optghc=-XEmptyDataDecls --optghc=-XTypeSynonymInstances --o
03:33:17 <elliott> ptghc=-XMultiParamTypeClasses --optghc=-XFlexibleInstances --optghc=-XRank2Types --optghc=-XScopedTypeVariables --optghc=-XDeriveDataTypeable --optghc=-DGHCI_TABLES_NEXT_TO_CODE --optghc=-DSTAGE=2 --optghc=-no-user-package-conf --optghc=-rtsopts --optghc=-O2 --optghc=-odir --optghc=compiler/stage2/build --optghc=-hidir --optghc=compiler/stage2/build --optghc=-stubdir --optghc=compiler/stage2/build --optghc=-hisuf --optghc=hi --optghc=
03:33:19 <elliott> -osuf --optghc=o --optghc=-hcsuf --optghc=hc --source-module=src/%{MODULE/./-}.html --source-entity=src/%{MODULE/./-}.html#%{NAME} --optghc=-DSTAGE=2 compiler/nativeGen/AsmCodeGen.lhs compiler/nativeGen/TargetReg.hs compiler/nativeGen/NCGMonad.hs compiler/nativeGen/Instruction.hs compiler/nativeGen/Size.hs compiler/nativeGen/Reg.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegClass.hs compiler/nativeGen/PIC.hs compiler/nativeGen/Platform.hs compil
03:33:21 <elliott> er/nativeGen/Alpha/Regs.hs compiler/nativeGen/Alpha/RegInfo.hs compiler/nativeGen/Alpha/Instr.hs compiler/nativeGen/Alpha/CodeGen.hs compiler/nativeGen/X86/Regs.hs compiler/nativeGen/X86/RegInfo.hs compiler/nativeGen/X86/Instr.hs compiler/nativeGen/X86/Cond.hs compiler/nativeGen/X86/Ppr.hs compiler/nativeGen/X86/CodeGen.hs compiler/nativeGen/PPC/Regs.hs compiler/nativeGen/PPC/RegInfo.hs compiler/nativeGen/PPC/Instr.hs com
03:33:23 <elliott> piler/nativeGen/PPC/Cond.hs compiler/nativeGen/PPC/Ppr.hs compiler/nativeGen/PPC/CodeGen.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/Base.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/Regs.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/RegPlate.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/Imm.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/AddrMode.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/Cond.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/Instr.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/Stack.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/ShortcutJump.hs compiler/nativeGen/S
03:33:24 <variable> elliott, xkcd is not always accurate - for example the tic-tac-toe one had errors in the drawings
03:33:25 <elliott> PARC/Ppr.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/Amode.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/Base.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/CCall.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/CondCode.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/Gen32.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/Gen64.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/Sanity.hs compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/Expand.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Liveness.hs
03:33:27 <elliott> compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/Main.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/Stats.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/ArchBase.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/ArchX86.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/Coalesce.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/Spill.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/SpillClean.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/SpillCost.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/TrivColorable.hs compiler/nativeGe
03:33:29 <elliott> n/RegAlloc/Linear/Main.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/JoinToTargets.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/State.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/Stats.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/FreeRegs.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/StackMap.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/Base.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/X86/FreeRegs.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/PPC/FreeRegs.hs compiler/nativeGen/RegAl
03:33:30 <quintopia> damn i wish i could kick
03:33:31 <elliott> loc/Linear/SPARC/FreeRegs.hs compiler/deSugar/DsMeta.hs compiler/typecheck/TcSplice.lhs compiler/hsSyn/Convert.lhs compiler/ghci/ByteCodeAsm.lhs compiler/ghci/ByteCodeFFI.lhs compiler/ghci/ByteCodeGen.lhs compiler/ghci/ByteCodeInstr.lhs compiler/ghci/ByteCodeItbls.lhs compiler/ghci/ByteCodeLink.lhs compiler/ghci/Debugger.hs compiler/stage2/build/LibFFI.hs compiler/ghci/Linker.lhs compiler/ghci/ObjLink.lhs compiler/ghci/R
03:33:33 <elliott> tClosureInspect.hs compiler/basicTypes/BasicTypes.lhs compiler/basicTypes/DataCon.lhs compiler/basicTypes/Demand.lhs compiler/utils/Exception.hs compiler/basicTypes/Id.lhs compiler/basicTypes/IdInfo.lhs compiler/basicTypes/Literal.lhs compiler/llvmGen/Llvm.hs compiler/llvmGen/Llvm/AbsSyn.hs compiler/llvmGen/Llvm/PpLlvm.hs compiler/llvmGen/Llvm/Types.hs compiler/llvmGen/LlvmCodeGen.hs compiler/llvmGen/LlvmCodeGen/Base.hs
03:33:35 <elliott> compiler/llvmGen/LlvmCodeGen/CodeGen.hs compiler/llvmGen/LlvmCodeGen/Data.hs compiler/llvmGen/LlvmCodeGen/Ppr.hs compiler/llvmGen/LlvmCodeGen/Regs.hs compiler/llvmGen/LlvmMangler.hs compiler/basicTypes/MkId.lhs compiler/basicTypes/Module.lhs compiler/basicTypes/Name.lhs compiler/basicTypes/NameEnv.lhs compiler/basicTypes/NameSet.lhs compiler/basicTypes/OccName.lhs compiler/basicTypes/RdrName.lhs compiler/basicTypes/SrcLoc.
03:33:37 <elliott> lhs compiler/basicTypes/UniqSupply.lhs compiler/basicTypes/Unique.lhs compiler/basicTypes/Var.lhs compiler/basicTypes/VarEnv.lhs compiler/basicTypes/VarSet.lhs compiler/cmm/BlockId.hs compiler/cmm/CLabel.hs compiler/cmm/Cmm.hs compiler/cmm/CmmBrokenBlock.hs compiler/cmm/CmmBuildInfoTables.hs compiler/cmm/CmmCPS.hs compiler/cmm/CmmCPSGen.hs compiler/cmm/CmmCPSZ.hs compiler/cmm/CmmCallConv.hs compiler/cmm/CmmCommonBlockEl
03:33:39 <elliott> imZ.hs compiler/cmm/CmmContFlowOpt.hs compiler/cmm/CmmCvt.hs compiler/cmm/CmmExpr.hs compiler/cmm/CmmInfo.hs compiler/cmm/CmmLex.hs compiler/cmm/CmmLint.hs compiler/cmm/CmmLive.hs compiler/cmm/CmmLiveZ.hs compiler/cmm/CmmOpt.hs compiler/cmm/CmmParse.hs compiler/cmm/CmmProcPoint.hs compiler/cmm/CmmProcPointZ.hs compiler/cmm/CmmSpillReload.hs compiler/cmm/CmmStackLayout.hs compiler/cmm/CmmTx.hs compiler/cmm/CmmUtils.hs
03:33:41 <elliott> compiler/cmm/CmmZipUtil.hs compiler/cmm/DFMonad.hs compiler/cmm/Dataflow.hs compiler/cmm/MkZipCfg.hs compiler/cmm/MkZipCfgCmm.hs compiler/cmm/OptimizationFuel.hs compiler/nativeGen/PprBase.hs compiler/cmm/PprC.hs compiler/cmm/PprCmm.hs compiler/cmm/PprCmmZ.hs compiler/cmm/StackColor.hs compiler/cmm/StackPlacements.hs compiler/cmm/ZipCfg.hs compiler/cmm/ZipCfgCmmRep.hs compiler/cmm/ZipCfgExtras.hs compiler/cmm/ZipDataflo
03:33:43 <elliott> w.hs compiler/codeGen/Bitmap.hs compiler/codeGen/CgBindery.lhs compiler/codeGen/CgCallConv.hs compiler/codeGen/CgCase.lhs compiler/codeGen/CgClosure.lhs compiler/codeGen/CgCon.lhs compiler/codeGen/CgExpr.lhs compiler/codeGen/CgExtCode.hs compiler/codeGen/CgForeignCall.hs compiler/codeGen/CgHeapery.lhs compiler/codeGen/CgHpc.hs compiler/codeGen/CgInfoTbls.hs compiler/codeGen/CgLetNoEscape.lhs compiler/codeGen/CgMonad.lhs
03:33:45 <elliott> compiler/codeGen/CgParallel.hs compiler/codeGen/CgPrimOp.hs compiler/codeGen/CgProf.hs compiler/codeGen/CgStackery.lhs compiler/codeGen/CgTailCall.lhs compiler/codeGen/CgTicky.hs compiler/codeGen/CgUtils.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmm.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmmBind.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmmClosure.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmmCon.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmmEnv.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmmExpr.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmmForeign.hs
03:33:47 <elliott> compiler/codeGen/StgCmmGran.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmmHeap.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmmHpc.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmmLayout.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmmMonad.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmmPrim.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmmProf.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmmTicky.hs compiler/codeGen/StgCmmUtils.hs compiler/codeGen/ClosureInfo.lhs compiler/codeGen/CodeGen.lhs compiler/codeGen/SMRep.lhs compiler/coreSyn/CoreArity.lhs compiler/coreSyn/Core
03:33:48 <Sgeo> WTF http://www.itv.com/news/100-car-pile-up-in-usa67788/
03:33:49 <elliott> FVs.lhs compiler/coreSyn/CoreLint.lhs compiler/coreSyn/CorePrep.lhs compiler/coreSyn/CoreSubst.lhs compiler/coreSyn/CoreSyn.lhs compiler/coreSyn/CoreTidy.lhs compiler/coreSyn/CoreUnfold.lhs compiler/coreSyn/CoreUtils.lhs compiler/coreSyn/ExternalCore.lhs compiler/coreSyn/MkCore.lhs compiler/coreSyn/MkExternalCore.lhs compiler/coreSyn/PprCore.lhs compiler/coreSyn/PprExternalCore.lhs compiler/deSugar/Check.lhs compiler/deS
03:33:51 <elliott> ugar/Coverage.lhs compiler/deSugar/Desugar.lhs compiler/deSugar/DsArrows.lhs compiler/deSugar/DsBinds.lhs compiler/deSugar/DsCCall.lhs compiler/deSugar/DsExpr.lhs compiler/deSugar/DsForeign.lhs compiler/deSugar/DsGRHSs.lhs compiler/deSugar/DsListComp.lhs compiler/deSugar/DsMonad.lhs compiler/deSugar/DsUtils.lhs compiler/deSugar/Match.lhs compiler/deSugar/MatchCon.lhs compiler/deSugar/MatchLit.lhs compiler/hsSyn/HsBinds.l
03:33:52 <variable> elliott, spam - much?
03:33:52 <Sgeo> elliott, shut up
03:33:52 <variable> elliott, spam - much?
03:33:53 <variable> elliott, spam - much?
03:33:53 <elliott> hs compiler/hsSyn/HsDecls.lhs compiler/hsSyn/HsDoc.hs compiler/hsSyn/HsExpr.lhs compiler/hsSyn/HsImpExp.lhs compiler/hsSyn/HsLit.lhs compiler/hsSyn/HsPat.lhs compiler/hsSyn/HsSyn.lhs compiler/hsSyn/HsTypes.lhs compiler/hsSyn/HsUtils.lhs compiler/iface/BinIface.hs compiler/iface/BuildTyCl.lhs compiler/iface/IfaceEnv.lhs compiler/iface/IfaceSyn.lhs compiler/iface/IfaceType.lhs compiler/iface/LoadIface.lhs compiler/iface/
03:33:53 <quintopia> what an asshole
03:33:55 <elliott> MkIface.lhs compiler/iface/TcIface.lhs compiler/main/Annotations.lhs compiler/main/BreakArray.hs compiler/main/CmdLineParser.hs compiler/main/CodeOutput.lhs compiler/stage2/build/Config.hs compiler/main/Constants.lhs compiler/main/DriverMkDepend.hs compiler/main/DriverPhases.hs compiler/main/DriverPipeline.hs compiler/main/DynFlags.hs compiler/main/ErrUtils.lhs compiler/main/Finder.lhs compiler/main/GHC.hs compiler/main
03:33:57 <elliott> /HeaderInfo.hs compiler/main/HscMain.lhs compiler/main/HscStats.lhs compiler/main/HscTypes.lhs compiler/main/InteractiveEval.hs compiler/main/PackageConfig.hs compiler/main/Packages.lhs compiler/main/PprTyThing.hs compiler/main/StaticFlags.hs compiler/main/StaticFlagParser.hs compiler/main/SysTools.lhs compiler/main/TidyPgm.lhs compiler/parser/Ctype.lhs compiler/parser/HaddockUtils.hs compiler/parser/LexCore.hs compiler
03:33:59 <j-invariant> HASKAL?
03:33:59 <elliott> /parser/Lexer.hs compiler/types/OptCoercion.lhs compiler/parser/Parser.hs compiler/parser/ParserCore.hs compiler/parser/ParserCoreUtils.hs compiler/parser/RdrHsSyn.lhs compiler/prelude/ForeignCall.lhs compiler/prelude/PrelInfo.lhs compiler/prelude/PrelNames.lhs compiler/prelude/PrelRules.lhs compiler/prelude/PrimOp.lhs compiler/prelude/TysPrim.lhs compiler/prelude/TysWiredIn.lhs compiler/profiling/CostCentre.lhs compiler
03:34:01 <elliott> /profiling/SCCfinal.lhs compiler/rename/RnBinds.lhs compiler/rename/RnEnv.lhs compiler/rename/RnExpr.lhs compiler/rename/RnHsDoc.hs compiler/rename/RnHsSyn.lhs compiler/rename/RnNames.lhs compiler/rename/RnPat.lhs compiler/rename/RnSource.lhs compiler/rename/RnTypes.lhs compiler/simplCore/CoreMonad.lhs compiler/simplCore/CSE.lhs compiler/simplCore/FloatIn.lhs compiler/simplCore/FloatOut.lhs compiler/simplCore/LiberateCas
03:34:03 <elliott> e.lhs compiler/simplCore/OccurAnal.lhs compiler/simplCore/SAT.lhs compiler/simplCore/SetLevels.lhs compiler/simplCore/SimplCore.lhs compiler/simplCore/SimplEnv.lhs compiler/simplCore/SimplMonad.lhs compiler/simplCore/SimplUtils.lhs compiler/simplCore/Simplify.lhs compiler/simplStg/SRT.lhs compiler/simplStg/SimplStg.lhs compiler/simplStg/StgStats.lhs compiler/specialise/Rules.lhs compiler/specialise/SpecConstr.lhs compile
03:34:05 <elliott> r/specialise/Specialise.lhs compiler/stgSyn/CoreToStg.lhs compiler/stgSyn/StgLint.lhs compiler/stgSyn/StgSyn.lhs compiler/stranal/DmdAnal.lhs compiler/stranal/WorkWrap.lhs compiler/stranal/WwLib.lhs compiler/typecheck/FamInst.lhs compiler/typecheck/Inst.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcAnnotations.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcArrows.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcBinds.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcClassDcl.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcDefaults.lhs
03:34:07 <elliott> compiler/typecheck/TcDeriv.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcEnv.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcExpr.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcForeign.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcGenDeriv.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcHsSyn.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcHsType.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcInstDcls.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcMType.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcMatches.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcPat.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcRnDriver.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcRnMonad.lhs compiler/
03:34:09 <elliott> typecheck/TcRnTypes.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcRules.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcSimplify.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcErrors.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcTyClsDecls.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcTyDecls.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcType.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcUnify.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcInteract.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcCanonical.lhs compiler/typecheck/TcSMonad.lhs compiler/types/Class.lhs compiler/types/Coercion.lhs compiler/types/FamIn
03:34:11 <elliott> stEnv.lhs compiler/types/FunDeps.lhs compiler/types/Generics.lhs compiler/types/InstEnv.lhs compiler/types/TyCon.lhs compiler/types/Type.lhs compiler/types/TypeRep.lhs compiler/types/Unify.lhs compiler/utils/Bag.lhs compiler/utils/Binary.hs compiler/utils/BufWrite.hs compiler/utils/Digraph.lhs compiler/utils/Encoding.hs compiler/utils/FastBool.lhs compiler/utils/FastFunctions.lhs compiler/utils/FastMutInt.lhs compiler/
03:34:13 <elliott> utils/FastString.lhs compiler/utils/FastTypes.lhs compiler/stage2/build/Fingerprint.hs compiler/utils/FiniteMap.lhs compiler/utils/GraphBase.hs compiler/utils/GraphColor.hs compiler/utils/GraphOps.hs compiler/utils/GraphPpr.hs compiler/utils/IOEnv.hs compiler/utils/Interval.hs compiler/utils/ListSetOps.lhs compiler/utils/Maybes.lhs compiler/utils/MonadUtils.hs compiler/utils/OrdList.lhs compiler/utils/Outputable.lhs com
03:34:15 <elliott> piler/utils/Panic.lhs compiler/utils/Pretty.lhs compiler/utils/Serialized.hs compiler/utils/State.hs compiler/utils/StringBuffer.lhs compiler/utils/UniqFM.lhs compiler/utils/UniqSet.lhs compiler/utils/Util.lhs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Builtins/Base.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Builtins/Initialise.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Builtins/Modules.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Builtins/Prelude.hs compiler/vectorise/V
03:34:17 <elliott> ectorise/Builtins.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Monad/Base.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Monad/Naming.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Monad/Local.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Monad/Global.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Monad/InstEnv.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Monad.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Utils/Base.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Utils/Closure.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Utils/Hoisting.hs compiler/v
03:34:18 * variable thinks he accidentally copy/pasted and now can't stop it
03:34:19 <elliott> ectorise/Vectorise/Utils/PADict.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Utils/PRDict.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Utils/Poly.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Utils.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/Env.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/Repr.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/PData.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/PRepr.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/PADict.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/PRDict.hs compiler/v
03:34:21 <elliott> ectorise/Vectorise/Type/Type.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/TyConDecl.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/Classify.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Convert.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Vect.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Var.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Env.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Exp.hs compiler/vectorise/Vectorise.hs
03:34:23 <elliott> holy shit
03:34:25 <elliott> i
03:34:27 * variable thinks he accidentally copy/pasted and now can't stop it
03:34:27 <elliott> had no idea how long that would be
03:34:29 <elliott> i just copied one compilation line to mock ghc
03:34:31 <elliott> jesus christ
03:34:33 <elliott> what is it doing
03:34:40 <Sgeo> variable, there's always ways to stop copy/paste
03:34:46 <elliott> sorry if that spammed
03:34:51 <variable> Sgeo, force disconnect
03:34:58 <variable> even /part won't stop it
03:35:02 <elliott> oh wow that is a lot of lines, i didn't even look that far back
03:35:09 <elliott> sorry
03:35:10 <quintopia> i can't decide if the title text or the comic itself is stupider. but i know i don't care to look at again to try to decide
03:35:15 <variable> elliott, xkcd is not always accurate - for example the tic-tac-toe one had errors in the drawings
03:35:18 <elliott> re:
03:35:19 <elliott> variable: elliott, xkcd is not always accurate - for example the tic-tac-toe one had errors in the drawings
03:35:21 <elliott> yeah i saw it :)
03:35:28 <elliott> variable: I wouldn't mind, if only it was funny
03:35:43 <variable> elliott, blasphemer
03:35:48 <variable> you dare call xkcd NOT funny ?
03:35:58 <elliott> variable: yeah ... it really isn't
03:36:01 <elliott> it was great before comic 400.
03:36:04 <elliott> afterwards, not so much so.
03:36:08 <elliott> lately, absolute crap.
03:36:12 * Sgeo needs FOOD
03:36:15 <variable> elliott, nope - that's a cognitive bias
03:36:17 <Sgeo> FEED ME
03:36:22 <elliott> variable: lol
03:36:24 <elliott> variable: seriously?
03:36:26 <variable> Sgeo, awesome movie
03:36:28 <variable> * play
03:36:29 <elliott> is that how you respond to criticism of work?
03:36:32 <Sgeo> variable, hmm?
03:36:36 <elliott> "You DON'T LIKE XKCD? It's because your brain's broken."
03:36:41 <variable> elliott, nope
03:36:50 <variable> elliott, you missed what I as refering to as the bias
03:36:54 <Sgeo> I think... I accidentally made a reference of some kind.
03:36:57 <elliott> variable: that it's getting worse?
03:37:04 <elliott> it's not like i'm the only person to notice that. whenever they started reading.
03:37:08 <Sgeo> variable, WTF did I reference?
03:37:09 <elliott> it's fairly obvious that randall is running out of ideas.
03:37:10 <quintopia> elliott is correct in this case though. everyone knows xkcd just isn't as good as it once was
03:37:28 <elliott> just because a lot of observations about "THE GOOD OL' DAYS" are false doesn't make them universally false.
03:38:00 <elliott> if I hadn't already seen them, I guarantee you I could accurately sort, say, comics 550 and onwards from comics 350 and before (ignoring the ones in the middle as being part of a decline and so harder to categorise) with high accuracy
03:38:06 <variable> elliott, sort of. you remember the earlier good ones and forget the earlier bad ones. I'll bet that if you were to go thru them all in a random order and mark them good and bad the distribution would be roughly the same
03:38:16 <quintopia> elliott: i think he was saying it sucked before too
03:38:31 <quintopia> and i disagree
03:38:45 <elliott> quintopia: I doubt it:
03:38:50 <quintopia> because i have done this experiment
03:38:52 <elliott> 03:35 variable: elliott, blasphemer
03:38:52 <elliott> 03:35 variable: you dare call xkcd NOT funny ?
03:38:54 <elliott> well ok he could be joking
03:38:58 <variable> elliott, that was a joke :-}
03:39:00 <quintopia> and there were a lot more good ones then than there are now
03:39:01 <elliott> :)
03:39:03 <elliott> hard to tell
03:39:05 <elliott> with some xkcd fans
03:39:19 <variable> elliott, I'll mark jokes with :-) if a I remember for now on - ok ? :-)
03:39:27 <elliott> just mark every line with :)
03:39:27 <elliott> :P
03:39:29 <elliott> variable: but no, xkcd really _has_ decreased in quality. i say this as someone who is almost to the point of paranoia with checking their own cognitive biases
03:40:10 <variable> elliott, the only way to really tell that would be to perform some kind of randomized ordering and rating of a representative sample of the comic
03:41:08 <elliott> variable: it is, in fact, possible to derive accurate results _without_ always performing the most anal procedure.
03:41:17 <variable> (as an aside its been showing that being aware of cognitive biases and specifically attempting to avoid them might increase their likelyhood of affecting a person btw)
03:41:23 <elliott> humans are capable of quite good rational thought if self-analysed to a sufficient degree.
03:41:46 * elliott wonders if variable is a Less Wronger.
03:41:59 <variable> Less Wronger ?
03:42:24 <elliott> http://lesswrong.com/.
03:42:44 <Sgeo> Is there a name for something where I'm more attracted to someone if I know they've had a rough past?
03:43:14 <variable> Sgeo, "Little Shop of Horrors"
03:43:18 <elliott> Sgeo: being Sgeo
03:43:22 <elliott> variable: lol i like the timing of that
03:43:25 <elliott> 03:42 Sgeo: Is there a name for something where I'm more attracted to someone if I know they've had a rough past?
03:43:26 <elliott> 03:42 variable: Sgeo, "Little Shop of Horrors"
03:43:47 <elliott> `addquote <Sgeo> Is there a name for something where I'm more attracted to someone if I know they've had a rough past? <variable> Sgeo, "Little Shop of Horrors"
03:43:48 <HackEgo> 260) <Sgeo> Is there a name for something where I'm more attracted to someone if I know they've had a rough past? <variable> Sgeo, "Little Shop of Horrors"
03:44:28 <variable> elliott, I've not seen that blog before
03:44:55 <elliott> strange.
03:45:08 * Sgeo decides that Slava has his head in the sand about modules and about capability security
03:45:19 <elliott> brb.
03:45:28 <variable> elliott, I've not seen that blog before
03:45:35 <elliott> variable: strange.
03:45:36 <elliott> brb
03:45:41 <variable> is there something particular about what I said that made you think of that?
03:45:47 <variable> if so is it positive or negative ?
03:45:50 <elliott> re cognitive biases
03:45:52 <elliott> and just curiosity
03:45:59 <elliott> now really brb, stop talking to me! :)
03:46:21 <variable> elliott, talk
03:46:22 <variable> talk
03:46:23 <variable> talk
03:53:33 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:55:14 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
04:18:18 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
04:19:25 <elliott> GMMXle.
04:19:31 <elliott> *MMXIe.
04:21:40 <Sgeo> 2011e?
04:22:06 <Sgeo> Please tell me that's not the new D&D edition
04:22:16 <elliott> GMMXIe is the new Google logo.
04:22:45 <Sgeo> ..? I don't see it
04:24:32 <Sgeo> Well, it's New Years eve where you are, so
04:25:03 <elliott> Precisely.
04:25:17 <elliott> Sgeo: http://www.google.co.uk/logos/2010/newyear11-hp.jpg
04:42:23 <j-invariant> oh is it new year already
04:43:03 <elliott> j-invariant: no
04:43:07 <elliott> j-invariant: nother 19 hours for that
04:43:43 <j-invariant> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Math#Usage <-- Cool formula for erfc
04:44:31 <elliott> hehe
04:45:13 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
04:45:23 <j-invariant> .. http://yfrog.com/h2m6wtj why?
04:45:38 <j-invariant> tattoos are daft, even if they are equations
04:45:50 <j-invariant> how can they stay on?
04:45:53 <j-invariant> I don't understand that
04:46:01 <j-invariant> I would expect them to at least disperse
04:47:37 <elliott> j-invariant: because of magic!
04:47:46 <elliott> j-invariant: hey that equation doesn't look tex typeset
04:47:56 <elliott> j-invariant: I wouldn't get an equation tattooed on me (at all, but) unless it was set in AMS Euler!
04:53:19 <j-invariant> hehe
04:53:55 <elliott> but yeah tattoos are lame.
04:54:25 <j-invariant> I feel like.. bad to say it, because what if a person with a tattoo hears me - I don't want to upset them
04:54:38 <j-invariant> but... what were they thinking
04:55:41 <elliott> j-invariant: I think anyone who can withstand that sort of pain is hard enough to not get upset :-P
04:55:52 <elliott> http://chirp.scratchr.org/dl/experimental/JsMorphic/morphic.html Smalltalk's Morphic ported to JS. This is great until Sgeo notices this message.
04:56:17 <Sgeo> I've seen in-browser Smalltalks before
04:56:26 <Sgeo> Also, I know little about Morphic
04:56:27 <Sgeo> Happy?
04:56:43 <elliott> It's not in-browser Smalltalk, it's actual real Morphic.
04:56:47 <elliott> Without Smalltalk.
04:57:05 <j-invariant> is it really painful?
04:57:37 <elliott> j-invariant: Morphic is pretty cool actually ... not sure the browser part is of any use though :P
05:03:21 <Sgeo> http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/12/30/liberal-group-criticizes-christie-with-parody-website/ Since when is the existence of a parody website news?
05:04:21 <j-invariant> oh those damn liberals are at it again!!
05:10:14 <j-invariant> elliott: http://vimeo.com/16754574
05:10:45 <elliott> can't watch it i have a perfect mental image of conor mcbride
05:10:53 <elliott> don't want to break it okay i pressed play omg no that's not what he sounds like
05:11:16 <elliott> j-invariant: more seriously i'll watch tomorrow when it's not 5am :)
05:12:12 <j-invariant> i have a perfect mental image of conor mcbride <-- hahaha
05:12:16 <Sgeo> Ok, Randall Munroe has a beef with audiophiles
05:12:30 -!- myndzi has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:12:49 -!- myndzi has joined.
05:13:33 <elliott> Sgeo: eh?
05:13:36 <elliott> most "audiophiles" are idiots.
05:13:43 <elliott> the rest are not.
05:14:26 <Sgeo> The only joke in the latest xkcd is too angry to be a joke
05:14:58 <myndzi> who you calling an idiot!
05:15:28 <myndzi> ur just jelly of me listenin to flac vinyl rips on my grado headphones through this expensive ass setup
05:15:46 <j-invariant> lol
05:15:50 <elliott> myndzi: i bet you can distinguish lame -V2 --joint-stereo from flac too
05:15:52 <elliott> and FLAC from WAVs!
05:15:57 <elliott> and WAVs from the CDs themselves
05:16:08 <Sgeo> I could swear I've heard "jelly" used in that context before
05:16:13 <myndzi> i can distinguish between different pressings of the same cd
05:16:14 <j-invariant> how many audiophiles have perfect pitch?
05:16:26 <myndzi> a: all of them
05:16:35 <myndzi> it's whatever pitch they say it is and i dare you to argue
05:16:35 <myndzi> ;)
05:16:43 <j-invariant> lol
05:16:49 <elliott> Sgeo: u jelly?
05:16:57 <elliott> myndzi: the sane audiophiles are all at hydrogenaudio :p
05:17:07 <j-invariant> http://xkcd.com/838/ <-- LOL
05:17:21 <myndzi> i liked that one
05:19:19 <j-invariant> it's funny because I RELATE TO IT !
05:19:25 <j-invariant> I have seen that meassage
05:19:45 <elliott> it emails the sysadmin
05:19:47 <elliott> i.e. you/root
05:19:55 <Sgeo> Did I ever tell you my sudo story?
05:20:33 * Sgeo should put a label on it: Warning: May cause death by boredom
05:23:22 <j-invariant> tell!
05:27:24 <Sgeo> I had two terminal windows open, one to the school and one for the computer I was using
05:27:43 <Sgeo> I tried to sudo apt-get something, I think Chromium, but I was doing it at the wrong terminal
05:27:58 <elliott> TODO: Figure out how to make cabal-install run "stow -v ghc" after installing/removing anything to redo the appropriate links.
05:28:00 <Sgeo> Realized it eventually, and sent the person in charge of that system a message
05:28:11 <elliott> TODO: Figure out how to make cabal-install do copying and registering separately to integrate with stow.
05:28:20 <elliott> TODO: Perhaps abandon this silly idea and just install into ~/.cabal like normal people do.
05:28:29 <myndzi> Sgeo: my brother plays muds a lot still
05:28:41 <myndzi> he was granted an immortal character with OLC access
05:28:44 <elliott> my brother plays with mud
05:28:50 <j-invariant> Sgeo: what did it work or somethign?
05:28:55 <myndzi> he used to often get mixed up with which character he was on
05:28:57 <Sgeo> No, it idn't
05:29:00 <Sgeo> I just got annoyed
05:29:00 <myndzi> so he changed his immortal's prompt to be something like
05:29:07 <j-invariant> Sgeo: annoyed at what
05:29:15 <Sgeo> That my password wasn't working
05:29:30 <myndzi> IMMIMMIMMIMMIMMIMM
05:29:30 <j-invariant> you wanted to be root?
05:29:43 <Sgeo> j-invariant, so I could install Chromium!
05:29:50 <elliott> TODO: Or maybe have stow stow packages separately.
05:29:51 <j-invariant> oh I see
05:30:00 <j-invariant> but why did you say you have two terminals open?
05:30:06 <j-invariant> what does that have to do wit hthis
05:30:08 <elliott> TODO: Maybe redo the bootstrap with executable stripping.
05:30:14 <elliott> j-invariant: did it on the wrong terminal, got REPORTED
05:30:39 <j-invariant> I can't figure out how to make a program not-crap with GTK
05:31:07 <elliott> TODO: wtf is root-cmd
05:31:08 <Sgeo> I have a slightly more interesting story
05:31:18 <j-invariant> Sgeo: was that it?
05:31:31 <Sgeo> No, that was the deadily boring story
05:31:47 <j-invariant> but was that it?
05:31:51 <j-invariant> you sent an email: End of story
05:31:53 <Sgeo> Yes
05:31:56 <j-invariant> LOL
05:32:31 <Sgeo> So these numbskulls in class were playing with wall
05:33:03 <elliott> I play my head on wall
05:33:06 <elliott> Yay bouncy
05:33:14 <Sgeo> I threaten to disable the next person who does so
05:33:20 <Sgeo> (Just yes | write whoever)
05:33:28 <Sgeo> But I wouldn't tell them that ofc
05:33:33 <Sgeo> So, I do so
05:33:49 <Sgeo> Person closes PuTTY, opens it again, and walls again
05:33:52 <Sgeo> I do so again
05:33:54 <Sgeo> etc. etc.
05:34:23 <Sgeo> So, the next thing I do, I write something stupid on the command line to do yes | write in an infinite loop
05:34:28 <j-invariant> lol
05:34:46 <Sgeo> Next thing I know, people are complaining that the system's not working
05:34:50 <Sgeo> Nothing's happening
05:34:51 <j-invariant> LOL
05:35:18 <Sgeo> Someone eventually reaches to turn off my computer, despite my protests that it wouldn't work. It did.
05:35:31 <elliott> Shell conncetion got dropped, duh.
05:35:32 <elliott> *connection
05:36:00 <Sgeo> Next class, we learn that someone was trying to work from home, couldn't, and complained
05:36:17 <Sgeo> The people who were using wall got in trouble. I did not.
05:36:47 <j-invariant> hehe
05:36:53 <j-invariant> you are the one that caused all the problems
05:37:21 <Sgeo> Oh, and wall got disabled permanently
05:37:39 <Sgeo> Ehh, wall is still a problem. But yeah
05:38:54 <myndzi> 'splain yes | write?
05:39:17 <Sgeo> Spams yes to whoever's being written to
05:39:21 <elliott> *Spams y
05:39:31 <Sgeo> Erm, oops. Yeah
05:40:24 <myndzi> how does that disable someone?
05:40:49 <j-invariant> it's like they ae running yes in their own terminal
05:40:54 <Sgeo> PuTTY does not like being spammed
05:40:59 <j-invariant> very hard to see what's gpoing on
05:41:05 <myndzi> i see
05:41:11 <Sgeo> j-invariant, I think it actually froze PuTTY
05:41:27 <myndzi> i just am unfamiliar with unix commands so i thought maybe it was doing something sly
05:41:30 <myndzi> ;)
05:41:50 <elliott> sly as a faux
05:41:55 <Sgeo> It was doing something y
05:45:40 <myndzi> y so y
05:46:38 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:48:18 <j-invariant> should have sent them some BELs
05:52:02 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:01:13 -!- elliott has joined.
06:01:14 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:04:52 -!- elliott has joined.
06:04:53 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:08:38 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:16:24 <Sgeo> I just ripped an arm off!
06:21:35 -!- cheater99 has joined.
06:24:09 <Sgeo> cheater99, I ripped an arm off, what should I do?
06:24:19 -!- Sgeo has left (?).
06:24:26 -!- Sgeo has joined.
06:30:07 <j-invariant> ????
06:30:19 <j-invariant> is this a game
06:30:31 <Sgeo> [off a chair]
07:12:13 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving).
07:37:12 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:11:26 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:20:38 -!- sftp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:21:00 -!- sftp has joined.
08:24:15 -!- cheater99 has joined.
08:35:50 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:50:40 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:07:16 -!- cheater99 has joined.
09:27:35 -!- sftp_ has joined.
09:27:36 -!- sftp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:34:41 -!- j-invariant has joined.
09:40:05 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
10:26:25 -!- sftp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:26:42 -!- sftp_ has joined.
10:29:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
10:44:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined.
10:45:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:56:23 -!- oerjan has joined.
10:58:19 -!- sftp has joined.
10:58:34 -!- sftp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
11:32:37 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined.
11:33:43 -!- MigoMipo_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:34:38 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
11:37:00 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
11:40:56 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:41:12 -!- sftp has joined.
11:46:19 <Vorpal> things that annoy me with eog: it blurs the image if you zoom in so that a pixel in the image covers more than one pixel on screen.
11:47:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:13:56 <fizzie> That annoys me too. Maybe there's some mysterious gconf flag that makes it do nearest-neighbor instead of filtering.
12:27:39 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: ilua).
12:39:45 <cheater99> Ok Ubuntu is like a devil it run in any computer... it works his way in to your computer and a demon takes control of your computer...what do I mean?
12:39:45 <cheater99> Have you seen does cakes with cream felling that you like? Linux is the cream Inside thats what linux is and yes it should work in your in your computer..
12:39:51 <cheater99> i love forums
12:42:00 -!- PEDRO-8B4ACF159 has joined.
12:42:27 -!- PEDRO-8B4ACF159 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:54:41 -!- FireFly has joined.
13:14:06 -!- Wamanuz5 has joined.
13:34:18 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
13:37:39 -!- oerjan has joined.
13:57:45 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
13:59:46 -!- Behold has joined.
14:03:38 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
14:09:41 -!- BMG has joined.
14:13:08 -!- Behold has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
14:15:06 -!- BMG has quit (Changing host).
14:15:06 -!- BMG has joined.
14:15:11 -!- BMG has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory.
14:38:59 <nooga> yieh
14:39:26 <nooga> i don't like new years eve
14:48:17 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
14:49:49 -!- variable has joined.
14:50:29 * oerjan realizes the paradox of variable learning haskell
14:54:09 -!- Sgeo has joined.
14:54:59 <variable> oerjan what?
14:59:34 <oerjan> haskell is purely functional, so everything is constant, not variable
14:59:43 * oerjan sweeps some IORefs under the rug
15:03:10 <oerjan> also some STRefs, MVars and TVars
15:04:20 <Sgeo> I think Newspeak's "module" system has spoiled me. Racket's makes me want to barf.
15:05:00 <Sgeo> And I'm convinced that the Factor people have their head in the sand, unless they're planning to pull a Racket and have a centralized distribution source
15:07:05 * oerjan now imagines a language named Ostrich
15:08:33 <oerjan> naturally it would be based on ignoring all errors as long as possible
15:09:36 <oerjan> and having a number of flawed design choices
15:10:28 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:10:48 -!- augur has joined.
15:10:49 <variable> oerjan, hrm....
15:10:54 <variable> isn't that called Java ?
15:11:27 <oerjan> i'm not aware of whether java ignores errors
15:11:46 <oerjan> i never got much deeper than hello, world in it
15:12:19 <oerjan> i guess the second part applies to everyone's favorite hate languages
15:12:27 <oerjan> (java, php, c++ ?)
15:12:49 <variable> I like C++
15:12:58 * variable puts on flamesuit
15:13:30 <oerjan> yeah but i hear it's a mess unless you work in a carefully restricted subset (and different people choose different subsets)
15:13:46 * oerjan doesn't know php or c++ either
15:14:38 <oerjan> actually i recall java's checked exceptions are supposedly so annoying that people _do_ tend to ignore them, so maybe it fits
15:15:39 * variable disliks the exception paradigm
15:16:12 <variable> its pretty much a "goto" but in an if statement :-)
15:16:13 <Vorpal> variable, a few (out of many) reasons that C++ is deeply flawed: templates sucking, multiple inheritance, operator++ overloading for ++x vs. x++, STL being crazy (especially the io stuff)
15:16:26 <Vorpal> there are a lot more reasons why C++ sucks
15:16:31 <j-invariant> C++ is very complicated
15:16:39 <oerjan> incidentally haskell has _several_ variants of exception mechanisms, some purely functional and some not
15:16:39 <Vorpal> j-invariant, yes, and badly designed
15:17:04 <variable> Vorpal, templates are one of my fav. parts of C++, nothing is wrong with MI if you know what your doing; STL is crazy and I wish there were certain; blah blah blah
15:17:15 <variable> I don't want to start this convo
15:17:17 <oerjan> from the near-trivial Maybe monad up to IO exceptions
15:18:28 <Sgeo> Paging coppro, paging coppro
15:18:53 <oerjan> and a MonadError type class, i'm not quite sure if all the examples belong to it
15:19:03 <Vorpal> variable, did you know that while C++ is not TC (nor is C) thanks to sizeof(void*) having to be finite, C++ templates are actually TC at compile time.
15:19:16 <variable> Vorpal, yes
15:19:21 <variable> actually - I did :-}
15:19:50 <variable> Vorpal, but its an interesting piece of knowledge (trivia?)
15:20:16 <olsner> except that templates usually come with a maximum recursion depth to force them to terminate
15:20:47 <Vorpal> variable, and that parsing C++ requires you to do syntax and semantic analysis in one pass since you will get ambiguous parse tree otherwise.
15:20:52 <variable> its a minimum of 16 -> but the standard allows infinite
15:20:53 <Vorpal> olsner, quite.
15:21:01 <variable> Vorpal, yeah - its not context free
15:21:17 <j-invariant> that's horrible
15:21:33 <oerjan> ghc's type system is also TC at compile time if you set the right extension flags
15:21:43 <j-invariant> wrong** :P
15:21:56 <Vorpal> I think something like A B(C); parses differently depending on what a, b and c are.
15:22:13 <variable> Vorpal, exactly
15:22:14 <oerjan> Vorpal: that was the case already in C
15:22:29 <Vorpal> oerjan, yes quite. But also C++ adds a few more variants to that
15:22:59 <Vorpal> oerjan, for example, myclass foo(42); Now that won't be a possible way to parse it in C since it has no constructors
15:23:30 <oerjan> mhm
15:24:55 <oerjan> i read that they're going to introduce a new type kind in haskell to solve the newtype deriving inconsistencies
15:25:13 <oerjan> s/haskell/ghc/
15:25:16 <Sgeo> newtype deriving inconsistencies?
15:26:12 <oerjan> Sgeo: ghc's newtype deriving extension is inconsistent with both the GADT and the type family extensions
15:26:34 <oerjan> you can combine them in such a way as to convert any type to any other
15:26:50 <Vorpal> oerjan, convert in what sort of way?
15:28:03 <oerjan> in such a way as to break type safety
15:28:17 <Vorpal> oerjan, right, but what will happen if you do it
15:28:23 <Vorpal> oerjan, crash?
15:28:31 <oerjan> quite likely
15:28:48 <Sgeo> unsafeCoerce vorpal :: Int
15:28:55 <oerjan> if you convert an Int to a function type you would be able to jump to an arbitrary address
15:29:21 <oerjan> yeah you could define unsafeCoerce :: a -> b with this, i think
15:29:33 <Vorpal> heh
15:29:51 <oerjan> (of course unsafeCoerce _is_ already defined somewhere, but that's what the unsafe* prefixes are for)
15:29:56 <Vorpal> oerjan, could you use this to get the bit pattern of a floating point value for example?
15:30:12 <oerjan> Vorpal: i would think so...
15:30:19 <Vorpal> oerjan, is there any other way to do that?
15:30:42 <Sgeo> Vorpal, when I tell people in C++ channels that I'm using reinterpret_cast, and they yell at me, it's because they don't realize that's what I want to do
15:30:43 <oerjan> well the RealFloat class has methods to get most of the information
15:30:44 <Vorpal> oerjan, I suddenly got an urge to do that famous inverse square function in haskell!
15:31:16 <Vorpal> err, squareroot
15:31:33 <oerjan> you mean integer square root?
15:31:38 <variable> oerjan, no
15:31:40 <Vorpal> oerjan, I mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_inverse_square_root
15:31:43 <variable> the newtons method one
15:31:47 <Vorpal> oerjan, the one famous from quake
15:32:07 <Vorpal> with magic number and so on
15:32:19 <oerjan> oh
15:34:01 <Vorpal> oerjan, surely you heard about it before
15:34:58 <oerjan> it vaguely rings a bell
15:35:13 <oerjan> especially that strange constant thing
15:36:18 <oerjan> lessee how does this inconsistency work again
15:37:22 <oerjan> class Trap a b where trap :: f a -> f b
15:37:53 <oerjan> instance Trap Int Int where trap = id
15:39:24 <j-invariant> inconsistency?
15:39:38 <oerjan> newtype deriving
15:39:45 * oerjan needs to google it
15:41:25 <oerjan> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/1496
15:42:35 <Vorpal> hm. Does anyone know if there is any good algorithms for uninlining? For a brainfuck compiler this could be an optimisation, trying to factor out code into functions.
15:54:32 <Ilari> Related to Common Subexpression Elimination?
15:59:32 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:02:05 -!- Behold has joined.
16:04:52 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
16:07:23 <Sgeo> The CEO of Active Worlds just rickrolled me
16:20:19 -!- Wamanuz has joined.
16:22:43 -!- Wamanuz5 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
16:25:50 -!- Behold has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory.
16:26:45 -!- elliott has joined.
16:31:55 <elliott> 07:12:49 <variable> I like C++
16:31:57 <elliott> variable: not for long
16:33:26 <nooga> yuck
16:33:27 <nooga> C++
16:36:57 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:37:51 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:38:45 -!- elliott has joined.
16:45:02 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:53:33 <elliott> ais523: http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbwfg7kwca1qe2mq3o1_1280.png?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1293900774&Signature=tKmD48bMIwNvzV%2B55IbiF2gKWE0%3D /troll
17:03:19 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined.
17:06:00 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
17:06:45 -!- Sasha has joined.
17:06:50 -!- Sasha has quit (Client Quit).
17:07:24 -!- Sasha has joined.
17:10:15 -!- cheater99 has joined.
17:26:40 <Sgeo> Huh
17:26:54 <Sgeo> So I'm told that AW telegrams are secure
17:27:02 <Sgeo> I instantly disbelieve it
17:27:15 <Sgeo> So I open Wireshark, send a test message, stop collecting
17:27:35 <Sgeo> And can't find the message in Wireshark. Doesn't prove that it's secure, but it's not plaintext like I was expecting
17:30:34 <Ilari> One can have all sorts of insecure encryption schemes... And those schemes look just as good in ciphertext as really secure ones.
17:31:55 <Sgeo> Indeed
17:34:57 <Sgeo> Although, it's probably safer than email
17:35:31 <Ilari> Calculating the total entropy of message blocks doesn't tell much either. Both good and bad encryption can have high entropy.
17:35:54 <Sgeo> Ilari, tbh, I can't even isolate the packets, I don't know how and not going to try
17:39:52 <elliott> Q: What is the future of open source? A: Nagware! http://i.imgur.com/GJhbS.png
17:39:57 <elliott> Seen when starting Transmission for the second time.
17:39:58 <elliott> Lame.
17:40:11 <olsner> Sgeo: if you can't even find the packets, does that mean they use telepathy?
17:43:03 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
17:56:09 <Sgeo> olsner, I mean I have so much other stuff running, and AW sends so many other packets, etc, I wouldn't know where to start
17:56:27 <Sgeo> Come to think of it, standing there, I should only have been receiving packets other than the telegram, not sending
17:57:04 * Sgeo carefully watches a blind Braid Let's Play
17:57:23 <Sgeo> Solved worlds 2-4
18:00:44 * Sgeo sees World 4's hunt in a thumbnail :D
18:03:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: TIME FOR HORROR
18:07:45 <oerjan> hora horroris
18:11:02 * Sgeo WTFs at the player... he accidentally managed to do something I completely failed at multiple times
18:32:30 <Phantom_Hoover_> elliott, what horror?
18:32:35 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: KITTEN
18:33:04 <Phantom_Hoover_> elliott, O GOD KITTENS AAAAAAA
18:33:22 <Phantom_Hoover_> (Sorry, my father was eaten by rampaging kittens.)
18:33:36 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: And INIT SYSTEMS
18:33:58 <Phantom_Hoover_> No, he wasn't eaten by any of them.
18:34:25 <olsner> INIT SYSTEMS EAT PARENTS!
18:34:37 <olsner> they do, even though they may not have eaten yours
18:34:52 <Phantom_Hoover_> olsner, THAT IS INSENSITIVE
18:35:20 <olsner> pfft
18:35:53 <Vorpal> in other words: never get children of your own
18:36:21 <olsner> or at least: never expose yourself to init systems after getting children
18:36:40 <Vorpal> olsner, tricky in this modern world of computers
18:37:17 <Vorpal> wait.... AHA! So *that* is how they plan to take over.
18:37:26 <Vorpal> matrix, terminator. they were all wrong
18:37:45 <elliott> Vorpal: just use windows
18:37:45 <Vorpal> instead, they are going to scare humans into not having children
18:37:48 <elliott> no init system!
18:37:50 <elliott> sort of.
18:37:58 <Vorpal> elliott, it has an init system of some sort. Not a /sbin/init sure
18:38:05 <olsner> if windows has no init system, how does it start?
18:38:29 <elliott> olsner: badl
18:38:30 <elliott> y
18:38:31 <Vorpal> elliott, but there is something that checks and mounts filesystem, starts services and so on
18:38:55 <olsner> windows' "Services" seem to be kind of the corresponding thing, winlogon does some more stuff
18:39:40 <olsner> but I think basic system startup like mounting filesystems is done before any of that
18:43:02 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:48:46 -!- cheater99 has joined.
18:51:19 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:52:01 <Phantom_Hoover_> I'm considering getting a new laptop. Any suggestions?
18:52:07 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: MacBook Air :-P
18:52:13 <Phantom_Hoover_> elliott, OTHER THAN THAT
18:52:28 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: BUY A SONY LOLZ
18:52:55 <Phantom_Hoover_> I'm not biased or anything, it's just that the rest of my family are firm members of the Holy Church of Mac and I don't want to let them think I've come back into the fold.
18:53:08 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: That's why you put Linux on it. Duh.
18:53:20 <Phantom_Hoover_> elliott, they wouldn't care!
18:53:30 <Phantom_Hoover_> Also, specs are a little low for my liking.
18:53:38 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: Preferably use a tiling window manager, semitransparent terminals with tiny, unantialised green text over inane anime wallpaper, and LOTS AND LOTS OF NCURSES PROGRAMS.
18:53:48 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: Which specs?
18:54:01 <Phantom_Hoover_> MacBook Air.
18:54:06 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: Yes, but which specs in particular.
18:54:10 <elliott> The GPU is probably the second-best integrated graphics out there, which isn't bad if you ask me.
18:54:17 <elliott> I don't actually recommend the MBA since it's hideously expensive :P
18:54:22 <elliott> But I'm curious which specs you think are low.
18:54:35 <Phantom_Hoover_> Who are you poking fun at with the tiling window manager thing, BtW,
18:54:40 <Phantom_Hoover_> *?
18:54:58 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: Umm, the kind of people who do that.
18:55:02 <elliott> Mostly Arch users nowadays.
18:55:06 <Phantom_Hoover_> Ah.
18:55:38 <elliott> The kind of people who put a bunch of useless system performance statistics on their desktop because it looks MINIMALIST because it, totally has a transparent background, man.
18:55:40 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving).
18:55:48 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
18:56:10 <Phantom_Hoover_> elliott, oh, that.
18:56:47 <elliott> I should put Ubuntu on this soon.
18:58:18 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: So what specs are low?
18:58:20 <elliott> Legitimately curious :p
18:58:42 <Phantom_Hoover_> elliott, erm. Clock speed, although I know it doesn't matter very much. RAM.
18:58:56 <Phantom_Hoover_> Using my current, dirt-cheap laptop as a baseline.
18:58:56 <Vorpal> btw, while *nix permissions are rather limited, they have the advantage of being simple.
18:59:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: 2.1 GHz of a recent Core 2 Duo ain't bad at all. As you said, clock speed is irrelevant -- I really wish they had never advertised it at all, ever. BTW, my previous laptop was 1.3 GHz and you wouldn't notice.
18:59:22 <Vorpal> which is good when it comes to security IMO.
18:59:22 <Phantom_Hoover_> Well, not dirt cheap, but a third of the price of an Air.
18:59:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: RAM -- I have 4 gigs.
18:59:33 <Vorpal> (harder to get it wrong)
18:59:41 <elliott> Don't think you'll find 8 gigs on a consumer laptop with more than 2 minutes of battery life any time soon.
18:59:43 <Phantom_Hoover_> elliott, I must have been looking at different specs...
18:59:54 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: You were probably looking at the 11 inch version, or looking at the uncustomised 13 inch version.
19:00:00 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: You have to up the specs before ordering :-P
19:00:06 <Phantom_Hoover_> elliott, quite probably. Price?
19:00:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: Um, £expensive.
19:00:25 <Phantom_Hoover_> I don't HAVE £expensive!
19:00:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: I upped the RAM to 4 gigs and the SSD to 256 gigs and it came out to somewhere just under one-and-a-half kilo-monetary-units.
19:00:46 <elliott> tl;dr WHOO THIS THING IS GONNA LAST ME A DECADE
19:01:17 <Phantom_Hoover_> <2020 elliott> MY LAPTOP IS ON FIRE
19:01:26 <elliott> FIRE IS THE APPLE WAY
19:01:43 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: But, yes, the unupgraded Air is kind of silly what with its 2 gigs.
19:01:58 <Phantom_Hoover_> elliott, INDEED
19:02:25 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: If you're okay with a 128 gig SSD, you can get a 4 gig air for £1,179 apparently.
19:02:33 <elliott> Oh, wait, that's with the lower clock speed.
19:02:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: I also upped the clock from 1.86 to 2.1 GHz, btw.
19:02:46 <elliott> In my defence, it has more cache.
19:03:06 <Phantom_Hoover_> elliott, I don't care! I have an aversion to spending monies!
19:03:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has changed nick to Phantom_Scrooger.
19:03:25 <elliott> Phantom_Scrooger: Buy a ThinkPad! It costs slightly less than £expensive!
19:03:33 <elliott> Yes indeed: £expensive-minus-epsilon!
19:03:42 <elliott> But hey, it'll run Debian until Lenovo finally fuck it up for good.
19:03:50 <elliott> (In, say, five minutes.)
19:04:48 <elliott> Vorpal: Writing to argc -- am I a bad person?
19:10:53 * elliott WRITES A SHELL
19:11:00 <Vorpal> elliott, I need to know why you do it first
19:11:11 <elliott> Vorpal: to avoid allocating another integer
19:11:14 <elliott> on the stack
19:11:15 <Phantom_Scrooger> Vorpal, his own nefarious purposes, clearly.
19:11:23 <Phantom_Scrooger> elliott, don't do that!
19:11:28 <elliott> Phantom_Scrooger: WHY NOT MWAHAHAHA
19:11:33 <Phantom_Scrooger> Use argv[0]!
19:11:38 <Vorpal> elliott, shouldn't the compiler be able to optimise that by a simple variable liveness analysis?
19:11:45 <elliott> Phantom_Scrooger: that's not int-sized :P
19:11:58 <elliott> Vorpal: it's gcc, i don't trust it to optimise its way out of a paper bag
19:12:04 <Phantom_Scrooger> elliott, OK, use the high dword!
19:12:27 <elliott> need names for hell that aren't hades or nether
19:12:43 <elliott> maybe naraka
19:12:52 <Phantom_Scrooger> (LP64 IS THE ONLY TRUE 64-BIT SIZE SCHEME)
19:12:57 <elliott> shell -> sFOO
19:13:04 <oerjan> inferno
19:13:15 <elliott> Phantom_Scrooger: Psht, I use SLP64. Ints are of course 16-bit.
19:13:27 <elliott> Chars are 32-bits.
19:13:35 <elliott> long longs are 9 bits.
19:13:47 <elliott> oerjan: Sinferno? :D
19:14:00 <oerjan> huh?
19:14:07 <Phantom_Scrooger> elliott, Malebolge!
19:14:09 <elliott> oerjan: i'm writing a shell
19:14:13 <elliott> oerjan: s hell
19:14:15 <elliott> s inferno
19:14:16 <elliott> sinferno
19:14:17 <Vorpal> <elliott> Phantom_Scrooger: Psht, I use SLP64. Ints are of course 16-bit. <-- as awesome as that would be, I'm afraid C does not allow it
19:14:20 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:14:24 <oerjan> aha
19:14:26 <elliott> Vorpal: C doesn't allow plenty of things that people do :P
19:14:35 <oerjan> elliott: styx?
19:14:40 <Phantom_Scrooger> Smalebolge
19:14:44 <Phantom_Scrooger> Tartarus!
19:14:45 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
19:14:47 <Phantom_Scrooger> Startarus!
19:14:48 <oerjan> it's not precisely hell, but close enough
19:14:53 <Phantom_Scrooger> Selysium!
19:14:53 <elliott> oerjan: http://www.zymondo.com/georgekeys/00Pics/StyxBabe.jpg
19:14:58 <Vorpal> elliott, well I never heard about anyone breaking the rules it put down on char/short/int/long sizes :P
19:15:10 <elliott> I think I might go with hades actually
19:15:11 <elliott> Shades
19:15:23 <elliott> See, now even Greeks can use it!
19:15:32 <elliott> Just pretend it refers to all the different shades of horror this shell gives.
19:15:48 <coppro> Sgeo: retrieved from swap
19:16:05 <Sgeo> m?
19:16:35 <elliott> Vorpal: EXAMPLE SHADES CODE
19:16:44 <coppro> Sgeo: you were paging me
19:16:45 <elliott> foo \ \ x
19:16:47 <coppro> and I can't resist a pun
19:16:48 <elliott> this is the same as the sh code
19:16:51 <coppro> elliott: that looks like perl 6
19:16:53 <elliott> foo ' ' '' x
19:17:01 <Vorpal> elliott, uh
19:17:02 <elliott> THE RULES ARE SIMPLE
19:17:06 <coppro> * * *** ** * ** * * * * * ** ** **** ** ** ** ** *
19:17:10 <elliott> \ followed by anything adds that char to the current command
19:17:19 <elliott> anything but a space adds that char to the current command
19:17:23 <elliott> space moves on to the next command
19:17:25 <Vorpal> elliott, is this a shell in the same sense as /bin/sh?
19:17:28 <elliott> yes
19:17:29 <elliott> excep
19:17:30 <elliott> t
19:17:34 <elliott> not to be used as /bin/sh
19:17:39 <elliott> it's meant for writing simple init scrpts
19:17:40 <elliott> *scripts
19:17:46 <elliott> to avoid the slowness of /bin/sh :D
19:17:55 <Vorpal> elliott, ahahahaha
19:17:55 <elliott> fefe did it, so I can!
19:17:59 <elliott> Vorpal: FEFE DID IT SO I CAN
19:18:02 <Vorpal> elliott, fefe?
19:18:08 <elliott> of dietlibc fame.
19:18:16 <Vorpal> elliott, also will it integrate into init then, or how will you make it fast
19:18:25 <elliott> by doing less obvs
19:18:32 <Vorpal> obvs?
19:18:35 <elliott> obviously
19:18:37 <elliott> fefe's is called serdo
19:19:07 <elliott> serdo has a bit of bloat though, it can do "cd" and "export"
19:19:19 <Vorpal> elliott, cd is probably a good idea
19:19:26 <elliott> well, yes :P
19:19:26 <Vorpal> elliott, also I doubt that adds much if it isn't used
19:19:32 <elliott> I think I'll make every assignment an export
19:19:33 <elliott> foo=x
19:20:01 <Vorpal> elliott, in fact you need cd if you plan to handle any sort of daemon that wants to be chrooted
19:20:16 <elliott> Vorpal: well yes. note that init scripts aren't services
19:20:31 <elliott> in fact most services will probably have their "run" linked to an actual command plus a "params" file with parameters to it
19:20:33 <Vorpal> elliott, oh so this is not for starting daemons?
19:20:38 <elliott> (idea to avoid pointless shell invocations stolen from fefe's minit)
19:20:39 <Vorpal> elliott, but rather, for the stuff before that?
19:20:45 <Vorpal> like, the fsck and so ojn
19:20:46 <Vorpal> on*
19:20:47 <elliott> Vorpal: yes, /etc/rc/start.
19:20:55 <elliott> Vorpal: of course it might still be useful for starting daemons in a lot of cases.
19:25:51 <elliott> Can someone please move the ctrl key on my keyboard to somewhere I can press without getting RSI.
19:25:55 <coppro> http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/12/31/1254208/One-Tip-Enough-To-Put-Name-On-Terrorist-Watch-List?from=rss
19:26:08 <coppro> I am tempted to go tip them off about the director of DHS being a potential terrorist or something
19:26:19 <coppro> or maybe a republican senator nobody's heard of
19:28:16 <elliott> Oh wow.
19:28:25 <elliott> Emacs is so much nicer when you bind ctrl to the key right next to your spacebar.
19:28:29 <elliott> i.e. alt on pc, cmd on mac.
19:29:21 <Phantom_Scrooger> elliott, I just bind it to caps lock.
19:31:15 <coppro> hmm
19:31:22 <coppro> vim doesn't bind meta by default, does it?
19:31:41 -!- wareya has joined.
19:31:55 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:33:03 -!- elliott has joined.
19:33:07 <coppro> vim doesn't bind meta by default, does it?
19:33:18 <elliott> well meta = esc
19:33:19 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:33:27 <elliott> as far as vim is concerned
19:33:35 <elliott> Phantom_Scrooger: caps lock as ctrl is not really ergonomic
19:33:54 <coppro> elliott: uh what
19:33:55 <Phantom_Scrooger> elliott, it's all right.
19:34:05 <elliott> coppro: uh yes.
19:34:08 <coppro> elliott: uh no
19:34:16 <Phantom_Scrooger> elliott, far less hand movement needed.
19:34:33 <elliott> coppro: whoops look at that i denied accepted UNIX-WIZZARD wisdom i must be wrong
19:34:36 -!- wareya_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:34:39 <elliott> time to say uh no condescendingly
19:34:42 <Phantom_Scrooger> Wait, not if you have your thumb over it,
19:34:45 <Phantom_Scrooger> *.
19:34:53 <coppro> elliott: the meta key is absolutely different from the escape key in vim
19:34:54 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
19:34:58 <elliott> oh /that/
19:35:04 <elliott> coppro: not as far as terminals are concerned, lol.
19:35:07 <coppro> I have just verified this experimentally
19:35:08 <elliott> coppro: Alt+x sends ^[x
19:35:11 <elliott> ESC sends ^[
19:35:18 <elliott> coppro: yes, vim waits a short amount of time before accepting esc
19:35:25 <elliott> try pressing esc and then another key really quickly
19:35:28 <elliott> this is also how it handles arrow keys.
19:36:03 <coppro> ah
19:46:20 <elliott> psht, serdo is more ADVANCED than my script
19:46:31 <elliott> it has quotes and all
19:47:10 <Phantom_Scrooger> serdo?
19:49:54 <elliott> Phantom_Scrooger: this thing
19:50:03 <elliott> is ARG_MAX based on the sum of the arg lengths, or is it just the number of max args?
19:50:20 <Phantom_Scrooger> The latter, I should think.
19:50:37 <Phantom_Scrooger> After all, nowhere does it say that argv must be contiguous.
19:52:14 <elliott> Phantom_Scrooger: I think it's the former, actually.
19:52:21 <elliott> Since people refer to it as kilobytes.
19:52:30 <Phantom_Scrooger> elliott, size of argv?
19:52:38 <elliott> Phantom_Scrooger: Size of all the arguments together.
19:52:39 <elliott> I think.
19:52:43 <elliott> Who knows.
19:53:19 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:54:56 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
19:59:38 <fizzie> "Maximum length of argument to the exec functions including environment data."
19:59:51 <fizzie> (Is how POSIX defines it.)
20:01:48 <Phantom_Scrooger> So size of argv.
20:02:06 <Phantom_Scrooger> Well, argv+envp
20:02:57 <variable> coppro, the value is typically ASCII + 64
20:03:05 <variable> so 0 = ^@
20:03:10 <variable> and the rest go from there
20:04:00 <elliott> variable: that's for ctrl.
20:04:03 <elliott> we're talking about meta
20:04:06 <elliott> well, were.
20:04:18 <elliott> fizzie: it's kind of weird, since argv is really just an array of random pointers.
20:04:25 <elliott> i guess it might just mean that
20:04:37 <elliott> easy to test by measuring i guess but i'm laz
20:04:38 <elliott> y
20:06:38 -!- Phantom_Scrooger has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:10:38 <elliott> Vorpal: p.s. static linking speeds bootup
20:11:30 <Gregor> OMG, bootup speed? HOORAY
20:11:34 <elliott> Gregor: YES I KNOW
20:11:39 <elliott> Gregor: Small victories, my friend.
20:11:41 <elliott> Small victories!
20:11:48 <elliott> Gregor: (I'm really just trollin' Vorpal)
20:16:26 <elliott> hmm
20:16:30 <elliott> why isn't this output appearing after a fork()
20:18:04 -!- Phantom_Scrooger has joined.
20:20:19 <elliott> Phantom_Scrooger: fix my porgram
20:21:14 <Phantom_Scrooger> elliott, humbug!
20:22:43 <Sgeo> My biggest concern with Newspeak is that it might be a headache to write small programs
20:22:50 <Sgeo> Quick hacks, etc
20:23:04 <Phantom_Scrooger> Sgeo, my biggest concern with Newspeak is that you haven't shut up about it.
20:29:20 -!- shutup has joined.
20:29:25 <elliott> Sgeo: So what's your current language obsession again?
20:30:32 <elliott> Sgeo: Mm?
20:31:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:31:23 <elliott> Sgeo: ...
20:32:50 -!- shutup has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:32:57 -!- shutup has joined.
20:33:00 <Sgeo> Well, some things about Racket are getting on my nerves. Well, one thing about Racket. But the thing is, it's something that's been praised
20:33:01 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about Racket!
20:33:19 <Sgeo> Newspeak
20:33:19 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about Newspeak!
20:33:23 <Sgeo> asdf
20:33:28 <Sgeo> Asdf
20:33:33 <Sgeo> Smalltalk
20:33:33 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about Smalltalk!
20:33:35 <Sgeo> Factor
20:33:36 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about Factor!
20:33:40 <Sgeo> Agda
20:33:52 <Sgeo> COBOL
20:33:55 <Sgeo> !
20:34:04 <Sgeo> Python
20:34:05 <Phantom_Scrooger> Sgeo, you seriously liked Agda?
20:34:10 <Sgeo> Phantom_Scrooger, no
20:34:25 <Sgeo> I'm just testing elliott's bot
20:35:13 <Sgeo> Scheme
20:35:14 -!- Phantom_Scrooger has changed nick to Sgeo_exceptnotre.
20:35:17 <Sgeo> LSL
20:35:21 <Sgeo_exceptnotre> Smalltalk
20:35:22 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about Smalltalk!
20:35:24 <Sgeo> Active Worlds
20:35:29 <Sgeo> !!!
20:35:33 <Sgeo_exceptnotre> Factor.
20:35:33 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about Factor!
20:35:48 -!- shutup has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:35:52 -!- shutup has joined.
20:35:59 <Sgeo> Active Worlds
20:36:00 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about Active Worlds!
20:36:00 <Sgeo_exceptnotre> ActiveWorlds
20:36:13 <Sgeo> BF-RLE
20:36:25 <Sgeo> Also, you really had to restart the bot to add a term?
20:36:37 -!- shutup has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:36:41 -!- shutup has joined.
20:36:41 <elliott> Sgeo: Hmm. Tell me,
20:36:49 <elliott> Sgeo: What language feature would I need to be able to add a term without restarting the bot?
20:36:54 <Sgeo_exceptnotre> Active Worlds
20:37:14 <elliott> Sgeo: It's that one you were complaining about Racket not having, yeah? What's its name again?
20:37:21 <Sgeo> elliott, I know what you think my answer would be, but I'm aware that it's a wrong answer
20:37:22 <Sgeo_exceptnotre> Hotswapping?
20:37:22 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about AW!
20:37:26 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:37:31 <elliott> Sgeo: No, please tell me, I want to know.
20:37:48 <elliott> (Note to self: Matching "aw" in the message: not a good idea?)
20:37:53 <Sgeo_exceptnotre> No.
20:37:59 <Sgeo_exceptnotre> Awwww!
20:38:14 <elliott> Sgeo: Please, tell me!
20:38:15 <Sgeo> I'll say it if you clarify that it's not my answer to your question.
20:38:16 <Sgeo_exceptnotre> A hypothetical kitten!
20:38:20 <elliott> Sgeo: Certainly.
20:38:28 -!- Sgeo_exceptnotre has changed nick to Phantom_Hooer.
20:38:31 -!- Phantom_Hooer has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover.
20:38:33 <Sgeo> Hotswapping
20:38:40 <Sgeo> ...the bot's dead
20:38:48 <Sgeo> That's the only reasonable conclusion
20:38:52 <elliott> whut.
20:38:57 <elliott> I put hotswapping in.
20:39:02 <Sgeo> hotswapping
20:39:05 <Sgeo> hotswap
20:39:14 <Sgeo> Smalltalk
20:39:15 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about Smalltalk!
20:39:28 <Sgeo> smalltaLk
20:39:30 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about Smalltalk!
20:43:51 -!- shutup has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
20:45:03 -!- shutup has joined.
20:45:23 <elliott> There.
20:45:33 <Sgeo> hotswap
20:45:36 <Sgeo> hotswaping
20:45:38 <Sgeo> hotswapping
20:45:38 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about hotswapping!
20:46:05 <oerjan> swathopping
20:47:23 <elliott> Sgeo: So what's that old game you like?
20:48:50 <oerjan> Lazy Planets
20:48:51 <Sgeo> Mutation
20:48:54 <Sgeo> ...
20:48:59 <Sgeo> Evolution
20:49:04 <Sgeo> Cybertown
20:49:07 <Sgeo> Creatures
20:49:11 <elliott> Sgeo: No, the old game you like.
20:49:11 <Sgeo> Docking Station
20:49:21 <elliott> That one that's like Minecraft without any of the fun bits.
20:49:33 <Sgeo> I said that already
20:49:33 <Sgeo> BRB
20:49:49 <elliott> Sgeo: I'm trying to make you test it, dammit.
20:50:00 <elliott> It only listens to you -- the saddest life a bot can have.
20:50:40 <Sgeo> Active Worlds
20:50:41 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about Active Worlds!
20:50:48 <Sgeo> AW
20:50:49 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about Active Worlds!
20:51:42 <Sgeo> Falcon
20:51:45 <Sgeo> Falcorn
20:51:47 <Sgeo> Falctorn
20:56:21 <elliott> Any suggestions to add to shutup's table are welcome.
20:57:45 <Phantom_Hoover> PSOX would qualify if he ever talked about it without it being tongue-in-cheek.
20:58:27 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Oh, believe me, he used to.
20:58:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, I know that, but he's stopped.
21:03:00 <Sgeo> PSOX
21:03:03 <Sgeo> Huh
21:03:24 <Sgeo> Hey, I not that long ago was talking about PSOX2
21:03:55 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, add it. Add it now.
21:04:19 -!- shutup has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:04:22 <elliott> Done.
21:04:27 <Sgeo> I think it was then suggested to me that I just make a way for various esolang programs to talk to eachother
21:04:35 <Sgeo> Instead of what I had planned
21:04:51 -!- shutup has joined.
21:04:55 <Sgeo> PSOX
21:04:56 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about PSOX! I don't care if you're joking! Just shut up!
21:05:17 <elliott> Sgeo: It was suggested by cpressey, who already tried implementing it.
21:05:30 <elliott> That was what catbus was.
21:05:40 <Sgeo> was?
21:07:17 -!- shutup has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:07:22 -!- shutup has joined.
21:07:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, god, what /was/ that game you only played due to a burgeoning sense of nostalgia?
21:07:43 <Sgeo> Cybertown. I said that already
21:07:52 <Phantom_Hoover> No, no, no, the other one.
21:07:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Actsomething.
21:08:06 <oerjan> Passive Dimensions
21:08:18 <Sgeo> Flatland?
21:08:25 <elliott> Actsomething = Flatland!
21:08:30 <elliott> A, c, t, tland. Flatland.
21:08:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, you can't win.
21:08:41 <Phantom_Hoover> We have POWERS
21:08:47 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
21:08:52 <Phantom_Hoover> Uh-oh.
21:08:53 <oerjan> INDEED
21:08:56 * Phantom_Hoover ducks
21:08:57 <elliott> oerjan: Weak-head-normal-form domains.
21:09:06 <oerjan> ...what?
21:09:13 <elliott> oerjan: Active Worlds.
21:09:17 <elliott> -> Lazy Domains.
21:09:21 <elliott> -> Weak-head-normal-form Domains.
21:09:27 * Phantom_Hoover jumps back up.
21:09:59 <elliott> Sgeo: What was that name? Starts with an Active, ends with a Worlds.
21:10:12 <Sgeo> Active Worlds
21:10:13 <shutup> Sgeo: Shut up about Active Worlds! One day the servers will go down, and NOBODY WILL CARE! The 90s are over! Move on!!
21:10:19 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*shutup@91.105.67.*.
21:10:21 <elliott> Oh, man, it duplicates the apostrophe.
21:10:22 <elliott> That's a mistak.
21:10:24 <elliott> *mistake.
21:10:25 <oerjan> WHOOPS
21:10:30 * Phantom_Hoover ducks
21:10:32 <elliott> oerjan: I was going to move it to a server anyway. :)
21:11:14 <Sgeo> Some of AW's best moments were in this past decade
21:12:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, lemme guess, all of them before '05.
21:12:53 <Sgeo> I wasn't around that much after '05, so I don't know
21:14:43 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
21:14:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to shutup.
21:15:12 <shutup> Hmm.
21:15:26 <shutup> !echo `echo ^echo echo
21:15:41 <EgoBot> `echo ^echo echo
21:15:45 <HackEgo> ^echo echo
21:15:56 -!- shutup has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover.
21:16:05 <Sgeo> Hmmmm
21:16:34 <Sgeo> I'm not smart enough to do what I want to do. Probably a good thing, as I'd get kicked anyway probably.
21:16:45 <Phantom_Hoover> What do you want to do?
21:17:13 <fizzie> Thanks to:
21:17:14 <fizzie> ^ignore
21:17:14 <fungot> ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot)!
21:17:19 <fizzie> You may wish to start with ^echo.
21:17:26 <fizzie> I guess the other bots are less picky.
21:17:38 <elliott> wtf is sparkbot
21:17:50 <fizzie> I don't know.
21:17:58 <Phantom_Hoover> ^echo !echo `echo echo
21:17:58 <fungot> !echo `echo echo !echo `echo echo
21:17:58 <EgoBot> `echo echo !echo `echo echo
21:17:59 <HackEgo> echo !echo `echo echo
21:18:12 <elliott> fungot echoes twice.
21:18:13 <fungot> elliott: i mean, ok, i won't find about about call sites which need changing of the instruction struct?
21:18:15 <elliott> You mean ^cat.
21:18:16 <elliott> ^cat x
21:18:16 <fungot> x
21:18:18 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, quine-like to get two bots in an infinite loop
21:18:24 <Phantom_Hoover> ^cat !echo `echo echo
21:18:24 <fungot> !echo `echo echo
21:18:25 <EgoBot> `echo echo
21:18:26 <HackEgo> echo
21:18:26 <elliott> hmm. cat should output "meow" after :)
21:18:26 <fizzie> Yes, that's also a truth.
21:18:29 <elliott> AMIRITE
21:18:38 <elliott> Sgeo: dude, we've done those billions of times.
21:18:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, we have repeatedly tried that, and as such it has been prevented.
21:18:46 <Sgeo> Oh
21:18:48 <Sgeo> >.>
21:19:29 <Phantom_Hoover> `echo !echo EgoBot? fungot? Don't you love me any more?
21:19:30 <HackEgo> !echo EgoBot? fungot? Don't you love me any more?
21:19:30 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: since lisp is so fractured into at least two more, and primarily) useful for development within it. how many do you have a lot of the design
21:20:01 -!- shutup has joined.
21:20:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Note that neither fungot nor EgoBot like HackEgo.
21:20:03 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: sigill is for making egobot use special characters, and work is ongoing on lispworks)) will make it easy to learn because it does
21:20:08 <elliott> It's less yelly now. :p
21:20:25 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot hates all other bots, though, since he was raised by humans.
21:20:25 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: it would be
21:20:32 <elliott> fungot: Indeed.
21:20:33 <fungot> elliott: ruby for example has a coding standard. i ignored it for a couple of esoteric programs have turned up here: fnord/ cgi-bin/ fnord)
21:20:43 <elliott> Ignoring coding standards is a good idea for esoteric programs.
21:20:48 <fizzie> ^ul (^ul )(+ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
21:20:48 <fungot> +ul (+ul )(^ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
21:20:54 <fizzie> That used to work.
21:21:03 <fizzie> I already forget who did +ul, though.
21:21:03 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: the reason nobody likes hackego is because it only talks in code
21:21:09 <elliott> admittedly EgoBot does too but shut up
21:23:42 <oerjan> fizzie: thutubot
21:23:49 <fizzie> oerjan: Oh, of course.
21:25:02 <fizzie> ^ul (^ul )(!underload )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
21:25:03 <fungot> !underload (!underload )(^ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
21:25:03 <EgoBot> ^ul (^ul )(!underload )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
21:25:08 <Gregor> "It only talks in code" guh?
21:25:15 <fizzie> There, without the ignores that would go on and on.
21:25:15 <elliott> Gregor: SHUT UP
21:25:18 <elliott> fungot talks in happy.
21:25:19 <fungot> elliott: i do that sometimes, switching between cl and scheme)."
21:29:16 <Phantom_Hoover> ^style
21:29:16 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
21:29:23 <Phantom_Hoover> ^style jargon
21:29:23 <fungot> Selected style: jargon (UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive)
21:29:29 <Gregor> `echo I'M BETTAR
21:29:30 <HackEgo> I'M BETTAR
21:29:33 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, what do you hate?
21:29:33 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: if ( ++sincereal 25) goto oops; for
21:29:40 <Phantom_Hoover> HackEgo, NO YOU AREN'T
21:30:16 <Gregor> `echo Phantom_Hoover: YES I AM
21:30:17 <HackEgo> Phantom_Hoover: YES I AM
21:30:26 <elliott> fungot: Selected style: jargon (UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive)
21:30:27 <fungot> elliott: you know what kind of like that) which is actually a very likely that confusion would result in the right solution is to traditional ( i.e., " owner-wimpy",
21:30:37 <elliott> I love how that didn't get renamed when I made fizzie get rid of the Jargon File :-P
21:30:46 <elliott> (Although I do believe I just asked for the pre-esr one.)
21:32:09 <nooga> well
21:32:26 <nooga> i can't imagine an unix hater
21:32:39 <Gregor> I guess I should be unsurprised that bacon chocolate isn't sweet at all.
21:32:53 <nooga> bacon chocolate?
21:32:57 <elliott> Gregor: You bought it? <3
21:32:59 <elliott> Gregor: I got it for Christmas.
21:33:00 <nooga> urgh, only in USA :F
21:33:02 <elliott> Gregor: Which brand which brand
21:33:04 <Gregor> elliott: Got it for Jesusmas.
21:33:07 <elliott> nooga: No. Not only in USA.
21:33:10 <elliott> Gregor: Which brand is it that one starting with V
21:33:11 <nooga> blargh
21:33:15 <Gregor> elliott: Vosges
21:33:16 <elliott> nooga: Trust me, it is gorgeous.
21:33:17 <elliott> Gregor: YES
21:33:21 <elliott> Gregor: It is amazing isn't it <333
21:33:24 <elliott> I legitimately love it
21:33:34 <elliott> The saltiness is SO GOOD with the chocolate taste
21:33:37 <nooga> i ate milk chocolate with mandels and rock salt
21:33:41 <nooga> in norway
21:33:43 <Gregor> It's ... not as good w.r.t. chocolate as baconnaise is w.r.t mayonnaise :P
21:33:49 <nooga> it was suprisingly delicious
21:34:02 <elliott> Gregor: Dude. Excuse me. It is amazing.
21:34:08 <elliott> Gregor: You have been letting it MELT right
21:34:11 <elliott> And waiting for the aftertaste
21:34:29 <elliott> Gregor: P.S. small bites (Americans don't know how to eat real chocolate)
21:34:32 <elliott> (Because they have never seen it
21:34:33 <elliott> )
21:34:35 <Gregor> I pretty much shove foot directly down my throat with no chewing.
21:34:44 <Gregor> ....
21:34:48 <elliott> xD
21:34:49 <Gregor> That worked surprisingly well for a typo.
21:35:00 <elliott> Gregor: More seriously though, ... no, don't do that with good chocolate.
21:35:11 <Gregor> That was called a JOKE.
21:35:17 <Gregor> Even in the non-foot sense :P
21:35:18 <elliott> Gregor: Dude, you're American.
21:35:24 <elliott> Gregor: Of course it wasn't a joke.
21:36:47 <Gregor> Considering http://www.scottevest.com/v3_store/Expedition-Jacket.shtml
21:37:10 <nooga> hm
21:37:59 <Gregor> My current jacket has 19 pockets and removable sleeves, but it keeps falling apart ... it's also less expensive.
21:38:17 <nooga> i drink beer after beer and eat tuna salad
21:38:56 <nooga> and then cheap champagne
21:39:13 <nooga> and then i will code
21:39:58 <elliott> Gregor: 37 mothafuckin' pockets.
21:40:03 <elliott> You ... do not need that many pockets.
21:40:30 <nooga> who needs jackets
21:40:41 <Sgeo> If you're going to have more than one pocket, you should have a potentially infinite amount!
21:40:45 <Gregor> elliott: It's not considered socially acceptable for a man to carry a purse!
21:41:06 <elliott> Gregor: Clearly you must become a woman!
21:41:12 <nooga> i use two pockets: one for wallet and keys and one for cellphone
21:41:18 <Gregor> I use all of my 19 except for one inner pocket and the back pocket. The back pocket because it's useless, the inner pocket because I use the other one 'til it falls apart, then switch.
21:41:23 <nooga> and then maybe one for cigarretes and lighter
21:42:09 <nooga> now i have this cursed blueberry bold
21:42:29 <nooga> and it sucks compared to my old ericsson w200i
21:42:35 <nooga> it's bigger
21:42:49 <Vorpal> <elliott> Gregor: 37 mothafuckin' pockets. <-- awesome
21:42:52 <nooga> and it's harder to send a text message
21:43:42 <Gregor> Pocket uses: (USB thumbdrives, camera batteries, other electrogadgets), (change), (student ID and/or bus pass), (pencils/pens), (tripod), (camera), (pocket reserved for unexpected carryables), (recycling when no bin is about), (papers to keep), (larger electrogadgets), (wallet), (passport)
21:44:02 <Gregor> Admittedly that's only 12/19, I'd have to look at the jacket to remember what I use the others for :P
21:44:08 <Gregor> Most are used though.
21:44:09 <elliott> Gregor: Dude, you have ... way too many possessions.
21:44:22 <elliott> Or, at least, way too many possessions on ha- why do you carry a tripod everywhere.
21:44:30 <Gregor> It's a small tripod!
21:44:47 <Vorpal> Gregor, "Travel around town or around the world" it says under "Key Features" (gah text as image, hate that). Does that mean the travel is included in the jacket somehow?
21:44:47 <Gregor> Also, I missed my phone on that list lawl, that's a pocket too :P
21:44:54 <Vorpal> Gregor, if so, can you opt out?
21:44:58 <Gregor> Oh, I missed my keys! Yeesh!
21:45:09 <Gregor> (Vorpal said "key" :P )
21:45:36 <Gregor> Oh yeah, and two hand pockets.
21:45:40 <elliott> Gregor: Fill up the rest of your pockets with a wearable computer.
21:45:48 <elliott> You could practically carry an i7 rig around in that jacket you're considering :P
21:45:58 <Vorpal> Gregor, "(student ID and/or bus pass)" "(passport)" <-- don't both of those go into wallet?
21:46:13 <Gregor> elliott: I assume by "practically" you actually mean "practically", as in "it would be practical"
21:46:34 <elliott> Gregor: ABSOLUTELY.
21:46:42 <Vorpal> Gregor, "(larger electrogadgets)" <-- such as?
21:46:47 <Gregor> Vorpal: The former I have in a surface pocket for quick access. The latter ... who the hell has a wallet big enough for a passport?
21:47:03 <Vorpal> Gregor, fair enough, but who carries passport around everywhere
21:47:12 <Gregor> Vorpal: E-Reader, or sometimes nonelectrogadgets such as a book :P
21:47:14 <Vorpal> Gregor, also what do you do during hot summer days?
21:47:37 <Vorpal> Gregor, another thing: backpack. Tried it?
21:47:44 <Gregor> Vorpal: During hot summer days I take off the sleeves. My passport pocket is reserved for my passport because I so frequently travel, although I of course don't have my passport when I'm not at least out-of-state.
21:47:52 <Gregor> Backpacks suck. I hate them with hatred.
21:48:05 <Vorpal> Gregor, you need passport to travel between states in US?!
21:48:16 <elliott> You need a passport to turn into a goat in the US.
21:48:32 <Gregor> Vorpal: No, but it would not be the first time that I'd found myself unexpectedly going to Canada whilst on another trip.
21:49:08 <Vorpal> Gregor, okay, why do backpacks suck? They are good for carrying laptop in (if you have a pocket large enough to carry a 15" laptop in I will be impressed. And also worried about the uneven load.)
21:49:12 <elliott> Gregor: First you have a few drinks... and then you're walking and you're not sure where you are ... next thing you know, you wake up in Canada.
21:49:21 <Vorpal> elliott, :D
21:49:22 <Gregor> 15" laptops suck :P
21:49:27 <elliott> You turn to look beside you, where in bed there lies a grizzly bear.
21:49:28 <Vorpal> Gregor, 17" then?
21:49:32 <elliott> And then you get mauled to death.
21:49:33 <Gregor> 17" laptops suck more
21:49:34 <elliott> Happens to me all the time!
21:49:46 <Vorpal> elliott, no, a mounty! (sp)
21:49:58 <elliott> Well, I gather there was a lot of mounting going on the previous night with that bear.
21:50:20 <Vorpal> Gregor, so what laptop size do you prefer
21:50:26 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
21:50:39 <Gregor> Vorpal: As small as you can fit a full-size keyboard onto.
21:50:52 <elliott> Which is why Gregor just bought an 11" MacBook Air.
21:50:52 <Vorpal> Gregor, without numpad I presume?
21:51:00 <Gregor> Vorpal: Without numpad.
21:51:06 <Gregor> elliott: It also has to be a legit laptop :P
21:51:08 <elliott> No, with numpad. You pull it out the side!
21:51:20 <Vorpal> Gregor, never felt a need for large screen area?
21:51:21 <Gregor> I have a 12" ... I think? Maybe 13" :P
21:51:25 <Gregor> Vorpal: Not one iota.
21:51:33 <elliott> Gregor: I would argue the issue on this MacBook Air, but I have the 13", which you can actually pay more to get a decent laptop :P
21:51:41 <Vorpal> Gregor, so you would be happy with a 640x480 2" display?
21:51:45 <Vorpal> (very high DPI)
21:51:54 <elliott> Don't need large != fine with tiny.
21:51:59 <Gregor> Vorpal: That is one crazy-high DPI. Strap that on a headgear and I'd love it :P
21:52:06 <Vorpal> elliott, well duh, I'm joking
21:52:11 <Vorpal> Gregor, :D
21:52:16 <elliott> Yes, but it wasn't funny.
21:52:34 <Gregor> My desktop had a 12" screen for ... good lord, years.
21:52:36 <Vorpal> nice google logo today
21:52:44 <Gregor> It finally died and I bought the smallest screen I could find, 19"
21:52:50 <Vorpal> GMMXLe
21:52:51 <Gregor> (Find on short notice that is)
21:53:10 <elliott> *MMXI
21:53:13 <elliott> You moron.
21:53:13 <Vorpal> wait, the l should be lower case
21:53:16 <elliott> It's an I.
21:53:18 <elliott> As in capital I.
21:53:23 <Vorpal> ah
21:53:27 <elliott> If not, Google would be celebrating 2010 at the LAST POSSIBLE MOMENT.
21:53:30 <elliott> Which would be hilarious, but no :P
21:53:43 <Gregor> WOOH 2010 YAAoh it's gone.
21:54:01 <Vorpal> elliott, their xmas logo was not recognisable as google IMO.
21:54:17 <Gregor> People seem to think it was some kind of secret code.
21:54:23 <Gregor> I'm gonna go with "no" on that :P
21:54:25 <Vorpal> (btw, http://www.google.com/logos/2010/culturetour10-hp.jpg)
21:54:29 <Vorpal> Gregor, the logo?
21:54:30 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:54:30 <Vorpal> or what?
21:54:31 -!- elliott_ has joined.
21:54:35 <elliott_> OK, guys.
21:54:37 <Gregor> Vorpal: The Jesusmas logo.
21:54:53 <Vorpal> Gregor, well it doesn't contain google anywhere in it that I can see.
21:55:00 <elliott_> What does it mean if your laptop's screen spontaneously turns bright magenta, fixed instantly by a reboot, and then two days later, turns teal/blue, fixed instantly by a reboot?
21:55:01 <Gregor> Vorpal: I'm not disputing that :P
21:55:02 <elliott_> I didn't press anything.
21:55:06 <elliott_> WHAT DOES IT MEAN.
21:55:20 <Gregor> elliott_: It means God has chosen you to go on a quest to find the Holy Grate.
21:55:22 <Vorpal> Gregor, that guy in the picture near the middle, when I first spotted it I went like "mario without his hat?"
21:55:28 <elliott_> Gregor: THOUGHT SO but really
21:55:30 <elliott_> should I worry for my laptop
21:55:49 <Vorpal> <elliott_> What does it mean if your laptop's screen spontaneously turns bright magenta, fixed instantly by a reboot, and then two days later, turns teal/blue, fixed instantly by a reboot? <-- use warranty presumably
21:55:53 <Vorpal> but google for it first
21:56:02 <Gregor> elliott_: Well your laptop, being a messenger of God, is unfortunately doomed to burn in Hell for all ternity.
21:56:07 <elliott_> Vorpal: I am not sure if this thing came with a warranty :P
21:56:11 <elliott_> I didn't sign up for AppleCare.
21:56:18 <elliott_> Kind of hard to google for, but I can't /find/ anything.
21:56:31 <elliott_> By "turns", I mean literally whole screen fill. Instantly.
21:56:32 <elliott_> While typing.
21:56:44 <Vorpal> elliott_, at least in Sweden you will by law get at least n months of warranty (where n depends on type of product)
21:56:56 <elliott_> This is Apple, they don't care about no laws!
21:57:11 <Vorpal> elliott_, well they have to. Or they would get into legal problems.
21:57:28 <Vorpal> like, being forbidden from operating in the country in question
21:57:29 <elliott_> Apple laughs in the face of legal problems!
21:57:38 <elliott_> But yeah probably there is a warranty.
21:57:44 <elliott_> I'll give it a week or so to see if it keeps happening though.
21:57:48 <elliott_> It may be an OS X bug, after all.
21:57:57 <elliott_> I wouldn't expect two different colours from a hardware bug like that.
21:58:08 <Vorpal> elliott_, could be pretty random
21:58:18 <Vorpal> elliott_, I mean, if it is something glitchy
21:58:55 <elliott_> I'll be installing Ubuntu soon anyway.
21:58:58 <elliott_> So I'll see if it happens there.
21:59:13 <elliott_> Having said that, reboots happen in like 5 seconds total, so I'm not complaining :P
21:59:14 <elliott_> Woot SSDs.
21:59:21 <Vorpal> elliott_, anyway I can think of hardware issues that would give non-predictable results. Quite a few in fact. Most however involves analogue and a A/D converter
21:59:35 <Vorpal> elliott_, but it isn't orthogonally persistent!
21:59:38 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
21:59:45 <elliott_> Vorpal: No, but under @ it would be!
22:00:20 <elliott_> I wonder how fast a modern computer with a good SSD can random-read some fragmented 8 gigs from disk into RAM.
22:00:30 <Vorpal> elliott_, btw, I suspect ubuntu will boot a bit slower than 5 seconds
22:00:41 <Vorpal> elliott_, I mean, apple can fine tune for that exact hardware
22:01:02 <Vorpal> and apple spent a lot of time on such things anyway
22:01:27 <elliott_> Vorpal: Well, OS X boots fast on anyhting.
22:01:33 <elliott_> Vorpal: But Ubuntu, as of 10.10, boots fast on anything.
22:01:34 <elliott_> *anything.
22:01:41 <elliott_> Vorpal: It's not the OS, it's the SSD :-P
22:01:48 <elliott_> My iMac was 10x slower because of the disk churning.
22:02:10 <Vorpal> elliott_, is 10.10 much faster than 10.04?
22:02:20 <Vorpal> elliott_, 10.04 spends most time on my thinkpad in readahead
22:02:35 <elliott_> Vorpal: They spent a lot of time with 10.04 and 10.10 optimising the bootup.
22:02:44 <Vorpal> elliott_, right.
22:08:29 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
22:10:13 * oerjan wonders if Vorpal could see that the google christmas logo had expandable pictures...
22:13:34 <Vorpal> oerjan, it did?
22:13:58 <oerjan> yes. but i thought maybe that was javascript so you didn't see it...
22:14:22 <Vorpal> oerjan, ah. What were they like
22:14:42 <oerjan> each of those pictures grew in size when you hovered over them
22:14:53 <oerjan> showing a larger scene
22:14:54 <Vorpal> oerjan, containing google logo somewhere?
22:15:07 <oerjan> ...not that i recall
22:15:10 <Vorpal> ah
22:15:33 -!- SimonRC has joined.
22:15:41 <fizzie> Vorpal: Yet another hotel-visit balcony view panorama thing: http://zem.fi/~fis/P1080159-173.jpg
22:19:39 <Vorpal> fizzie, loading
22:19:52 <Vorpal> fizzie, nice!
22:20:43 <fizzie> The... uh, it's fi:pilkkijä, dudes-who-fish-on-the-ice... well, those people, were pretty persistent; they were pretty much all the day out there.
22:21:09 <Vorpal> fizzie, pilka or pika or something in Swedish I think. I'm not sure, the hobby doesn't really interest me
22:22:02 <fizzie> There are also three rather curious-looking ones from the hotel atrium: http://zem.fi/~fis/P1080216-235.jpg http://zem.fi/~fis/P1080242-260.jpg http://zem.fi/~fis/P1080277-288.jpg
22:22:41 <Vorpal> fizzie, for the first, what projection?
22:22:49 <Vorpal> fizzie, I assume it was less bendy?
22:23:02 <fizzie> Yes, you can see from the other that it is less bendy.
22:23:11 <fizzie> Fake-fisheye lens for the first one.
22:23:32 <Vorpal> fizzie, wait, they are the same? Very different white balance there
22:23:59 <Vorpal> fizzie, as for the third, were some of the pics blurry?
22:24:04 <Vorpal> (while other were very sharp)
22:24:21 <Vorpal> fizzie, nice pics though!
22:24:27 <fizzie> "Yes" to both. Shot freehand and in .jpg, so white-balance comes from camera settings, which I changed to be less yellow.
22:24:29 <Vorpal> ah
22:24:47 <Vorpal> fizzie, why not raw (or was this your phone?)
22:25:41 <fizzie> I'm not really sure why not; I guess mostly because it's a bit slower, and I had to take about four shots for each angle already, to get at least one not horribly blurry one at ISO 100. (Anything above that is horribly noisy on the camera.)
22:26:11 <Vorpal> fizzie, enfuse to get rid of noise?
22:26:22 <Vorpal> though without tripod that is doomed I guess
22:27:22 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
22:27:46 <fizzie> There's also two mobile-phone stitchings I took on the way to the hotel: http://zem.fi/~fis/20101229_032-040.jpg http://zem.fi/~fis/20101229_045-048.jpg
22:28:17 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
22:29:00 <fizzie> Those are a bit stripy, because the default camera app doesn't do fixed white balance, and hugin's exposure-optimization doesn't seem to be able to fix it well.
22:29:08 <Vorpal> fizzie, oh I guess it is 2011 over there already? Happy new .fi year then
22:29:29 <fizzie> About 00:30 Jan 1st 2011 here, right. Thanks.
22:29:51 <oerjan> happy new year
22:32:06 <Vorpal> fizzie, don't see any stripes in the second. And quite subtle in the first. Using my laptop though. Not the best colour reproduction in the world
22:32:48 <elliott_> fizzie: terrible new year \o/
22:32:48 <myndzi> |
22:32:48 <myndzi> |\
22:32:59 <fizzie> The stripes aren't too bad in that since the lighting (overcast sky) was quite identical in all the shots, so the camera guesswork is probably rather similar in all the cases.
22:34:10 <Vorpal> fizzie, should be possible to get white balance in one place on the n900 then use the same for the rest of the shots
22:34:21 <Vorpal> fizzie, I mean, it is an advanced phone. Surely doable.
22:34:52 <fizzie> There's the third-party "fcam" app that can do raw and manual settings and all, but it's not quite as user-friendly as the default app.
22:35:05 <fizzie> For one thing, it doesn't auto-start when you open the camera cover, which is important out there in the cold. :p
22:35:21 <Vorpal> fizzie, fair enough
22:35:25 <fizzie> Vorpal: I guess I could share the hotel-room photo(s) too, since it (they) turned out to be rather nice: http://zem.fi/~fis/P1080070-077_r.jpg + http://zem.fi/~fis/P1080096-108.jpg -- the first one in particular would not look that out of place in a hotel brochure or something, I think. (Well, discouting slight noisiness and such.)
22:37:37 <Sgeo> Comment by uploader of DS9 to YouTube: "@murphy3162 if i pretend all bad voyager episodes dont exist....then theres no series left."
22:37:37 <Vorpal> fizzie, also some visible seams in the first
22:37:54 <Vorpal> fizzie, (middle of door frame)
22:38:10 <fizzie> Well, that too.
22:38:42 <Vorpal> fizzie, the mirror in the second one looks weird
22:39:28 <Vorpal> fizzie, oh it has bevelled edges?
22:39:30 <fizzie> It does. I'm not sure if the mirror is just faceted weirdly. (But there's also a visible seam near the roof/wall edge at one point.)
22:40:04 <Vorpal> leaving shortly for new year stuff here
22:40:05 <nooga> hah
22:40:10 <nooga> 20 minutes to midnight
22:41:24 <elliott_> There's an hour and forty minutes to go, you unwashed heathens.
22:41:45 <Phantom_Hoover> An hour and twenty¬!
22:41:59 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott.
22:42:05 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: nO
22:42:06 <elliott> *NO
22:42:07 <elliott> FORTY
22:42:10 <elliott> I EXIST IN GMT MINUS 20 MINUTES
22:43:15 <nooga> pffft
22:43:24 <nooga> why aren't you on some party anyway
22:43:51 <Vorpal> party. That would suck.
22:44:08 * oerjan swats nooga -----###
22:44:13 <oerjan> fireworks -->
22:44:18 <fizzie> "This channel is all the party I can handle!"
22:44:32 <nooga> i have a norwegian speaking party at my flat
22:44:35 <nooga> in*
22:44:38 <nooga> whateva
22:44:46 <nooga> oerjan could join
22:45:15 <Gregor> pikhq: Why are you not here?
22:45:28 <elliott> WOOO OPARTY
22:45:29 <elliott> PARTY IN THE HOUS
22:45:30 <elliott> E
22:45:32 <elliott> PARTY IN THE HOUSE
22:45:33 <Sgeo> Why does no one ever ask me that?
22:45:33 <elliott> PARTY WITH A MOUSE
22:45:35 <elliott> IN THE HOUUUUUUUUSE
22:45:39 <fizzie> Gregor: Maybe he's at some sort of a hip norwegian-speaking party.
22:45:40 <elliott> Sgeo: because we call those periods tranquil silence
22:45:46 <Sgeo> elliott, I'll protect you my friend
22:45:57 <elliott> Sgeo: Phantom_Hoover already referenced Little Mouse yesterday so stfu.
22:46:01 <elliott> Gregor: I'm practically a substitute for pikhq, what do you want to ask.
22:46:08 <nooga> well
22:46:12 <fizzie> elliott: "Tastes good, less filling"?
22:46:17 <nooga> it's a calm party
22:46:33 <elliott> fizzie: ff
22:46:34 <elliott> dfk
22:46:40 <nooga> we have some drinks, salad, champagne and chillout music from this computer
22:46:41 <Gregor> elliott: Did you ever find a good deinterlacing filter in mplayer?
22:46:49 <nooga> 4 ppl
22:46:58 <elliott> Gregor: He found a gigantic combination of filters that worked on hideous, hideous inputs :-P
22:47:02 <nooga> + this channel
22:47:19 <elliott> Gregor: I suspect that he would use something rather more conservative for, you know, _regular_ interlaced stuff.
22:47:21 <nooga> i think it's my duty to be on this # now
22:48:09 <nooga> oh, btw. i've recently read Wouter's PhD thesis
22:48:40 <nooga> it's really inspiring but graphical Aardappel is bad
22:51:21 <elliott> nooga: aardappel is kinda fun though
22:51:35 <nooga> well
22:51:42 <nooga> maybe it's good
22:51:50 <elliott> it's not good but it is fun
22:51:51 <nooga> eee
22:51:51 <elliott> :)
22:51:52 <nooga> no
22:51:54 <nooga> IT IS GOOD
22:52:02 <nooga> \but not this graphical notation
22:52:21 <nooga> i tried to read aardappel qsort in a graphical form
22:52:44 <nooga> and it was really hard compared to the textual version introdouced in the paper
22:52:55 <elliott> nooga: oh by graphical you mean the list visualiation things?
22:52:58 <elliott> *visualiation
22:52:59 <elliott> *visualisation
22:53:01 <elliott> yeah those are silly
22:53:03 <nooga> this aarded
22:53:11 <nooga> textual form is nice
22:54:23 <elliott> nooga: you mean like, linear? 1 dimensional?
22:54:24 <elliott> lame
22:54:27 <elliott> that defeats the point of aardappel
22:59:28 <nooga> but the PARADING
22:59:30 <nooga> M
22:59:31 <nooga> shit!
22:59:34 <nooga> midnight!
22:59:35 <nooga> brb
23:00:05 <elliott> nooga is going to get really, really drunk really, really quickly.
23:13:45 <nooga> noo
23:13:47 <nooga> ;p
23:22:42 <Vorpal> back
23:22:48 <Vorpal> happy new year + 22 minutes everyone!
23:23:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, weirdo.
23:23:35 <Vorpal> <Sgeo> elliott, I'll protect you my friend <elliott> Sgeo: Phantom_Hoover already referenced Little Mouse yesterday so stfu. <-- why the sudden rise in number of references to it?
23:23:39 <Phantom_Hoover> New year is in 40 minutes!
23:23:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, A SIGN OF THE END TIMES?
23:24:02 <elliott> HEY NOW CTHULHU
23:24:07 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, wait. that was 2012.
23:24:14 <elliott> Vorpal: Off-by-one.
23:25:08 <Vorpal> elliott, ah. Even for Maya yes
23:25:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, the Romans counted off-by-one.
23:25:34 <elliott> And what have they ever done for us?
23:25:36 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, did they? In what way?
23:27:01 <oerjan> _ _ _ _ __ __ _
23:27:01 <oerjan> | || |__ _ _ __ _ __ _ _ | \| |_____ __ __ \ \ / /__ __ _ _ _| |
23:27:01 <oerjan> | __ / _` | '_ \ '_ \ || | | .` / -_) V V / \ V / -_) _` | '_|_|
23:27:01 <oerjan> |_||_\__,_| .__/ .__/\_, | |_|\_\___|\_/\_/ |_|\___\__,_|_| (_)
23:27:01 <oerjan> |_| |_| |__/
23:27:21 <Vorpal> oerjan, right. You found banner(1)?
23:27:24 <oerjan> bah
23:27:30 <oerjan> no, figlet
23:27:34 <Vorpal> ah
23:27:46 <elliott> omg i don't have fist(1)
23:27:56 <Vorpal> fist(1) ?
23:28:11 <Phantom_Hoover> :O
23:28:23 <Vorpal> elliott, what is that
23:28:27 <elliott> http://www.fourmilab.ch/fist/
23:28:44 <elliott> HOLY SHIT, its configure script runs fast.
23:28:46 <elliott> You know why?
23:28:50 <elliott> # Guess values for system-dependent variables and create Makefiles.
23:28:50 <elliott> # Generated automatically using autoconf version 2.13
23:28:51 <elliott> # Copyright (C) 1992, 93, 94, 95, 96 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
23:28:52 <elliott> Seriously. Dang.
23:28:54 <elliott> That was fast.
23:29:00 <elliott> And it didn't check if I have every function ever, either.
23:29:22 <elliott> OTOH, I have to make my own /opt/stow/fist/bin.
23:30:05 <elliott> http://sprunge.us/NHIE; I would spam it in-channel, but, uh, it's a bit long.
23:43:46 <Gregor> Does anybody know the conditions under which YouTube releases the time limit for particular accounts?
23:44:10 <elliott> Gregor: "Used to be a director's account", I think :-P
23:44:26 <Gregor> I'm not a director. I don't even know what that means.
23:44:56 <elliott> Gregor: Then I think you are fucked.
23:44:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, it means they like you.
23:45:17 <Gregor> elliott: In the good way?
23:45:18 <elliott> Gregor: Oh, so you had it removed and you don't know why?
23:45:24 <Gregor> elliott: Yeah
23:45:30 <Gregor> "Congratulations! Your account is now enabled for uploads longer than 15 minutes. Click the Upload button below to select a video."
23:45:32 <elliott> Gregor: YouTube does not run on logic.
23:45:50 <Gregor> Time to write a friggin' epic 2 hour piano piece.
23:46:29 <elliott> Gregor: Dude... play some Merzbow. On piano.
23:46:33 <elliott> You must.
23:46:50 <elliott> I am not sure how this amazing idea did not come to me much sooner.
23:47:42 <Gregor> ... yeah.
23:47:55 <elliott> Gregor: Is that a "YES I WILL DO THAT".
23:48:19 * Gregor tries his hardest to force as much sarcasm as possible across the webertubes.
23:48:46 <elliott> Gregor: You can't deny that you'd watch two hours of Merzpiano on YouTube.
23:48:52 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Support this idea.
23:49:36 * Phantom_Hoover approves of this message.
23:49:45 * elliott approves of this message.
23:49:49 <elliott> Let's approve of our own messages!
23:50:57 <fizzie> ▌▌▄ ▄ ▄ ▖▖ ▄ ▗ ▖▖ ▖▖▗ ▄ ▖▖▐
23:50:57 <fizzie> ▛▌▄▌▙▘▙▘▚▌ ▌▌▛▘▙▌ ▚▌▛▘▄▌▛ ▝
23:50:57 <fizzie> ▘▘▀▘▘ ▘ ▄▘ ▘▘▝▘▀▘ ▄▘▝▘▀▘▘ ▝
23:51:04 <fizzie> (It's the rfk86 font.)
23:51:36 <fizzie> Looks nice in this terminal, less so in the xchat with empty spaces between lines.
23:51:47 <elliott> fizzie: Does not work in the logs :P
23:52:51 <fizzie> Also I forgot to uppercase the other words.
23:55:44 <fizzie> Vorpal: Hey, it's not even a magical gconf key in eog. It's just Edit/Preferences/Image View/uncheck "smooth images when zoomed-out".
23:56:07 <elliott> Oh you Gnome cynics.
23:56:25 <elliott> (saying this because you're the only person even remotely likely to agree with me)
23:56:37 <fizzie> s/-out/-in/
23:57:17 <elliott> GolfScript is pretty good though.
23:57:27 <elliott> ~{.@\%.}do; isn't a bad gcd.
←2010-12-30 2010-12-31 2011-01-01→ ↑2010 ↑all